Carroll County, MD Board of County Commissioners Open Sessions, 11 Oct 2022

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From YouTube: Board of County Commissioners and Emergency Services Advisory Council Joint Meeting October 11

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Okay, um as we do, let's uh start our october 11th meeting joint meeting with.

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The emergency services advisory council and the board of county.

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Commissioners, let's start with the pledge of allegiance and the moment of silence,.

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One nation, under god, indivisible thank you.

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Okay, this joint meeting, as we all know, is a open session.

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Where you have here are the five 40 count, commissioners, along with our chief administrator.

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um And the head of our fire ems, mr robinson, um we have an agenda in front of us where it.

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Shares that I will be giving my remarks, which I'm doing right now, then the uh emergency.

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Services advisory council, otherwise known as esac, will provide the strategic plan update.

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We'll have a conversation about the fy 24 budget, our chapter 37, which we had conversation during.

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Open session uh this past thursday and appreciate all the communities input to date on that.

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um I imagine mike you will be leading the conversation on the impacts of hiring delays and.

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Facilitating it from there and then we'll have an open discussion. We are scheduled for uh two hours.

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Having this joint meeting, which is uh a pleasure to have two hours allocated.

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But as I always think you can allocate, but you don't have to execute so if we.

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Can execute unless that's okay, but you know this is about quality, not quantity.

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So with that said, um let me just turn it right over to the esec strategic plan update.

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Sure, thank you, sir good afternoon. I'm glad you've had this opportunity to provide you an update on.

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Where we are at the activities that we've been working on and continue our discussions that we've.

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Had in the past time we got together was in june, I do want to provide an update on where we're at.

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With our strategic plan- and it's really I'm very pleased when we're at the strategic plan right now,.

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We're having two or three other groups come back at each of the esac meetings to give.

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Us an update on where they're at and also helped, you know, provide recommendations and things that.

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We're going to in the future, and particularly like I want to talk about some of the things.

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That they've included so far in the proposed budget as we go through this this next giveaway.

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In our administration part where they talk about goal, one like we currently do have an.

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Organizational chart but I've asked a group to go back and discuss what future organization.

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Of charts are placed, we have something that's very basic right now, but as we go down this hiring path.

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And where we're going to be going, we need to. uh We need to look at it again and just to make sure.

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That we have it organized correctly in the way that we want it and dan plunker, who is also on.

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The east side board leads that conversation and we rename that information to him at our last meeting.

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So the mou is underway, I sure hope it's almost done. um I believe that we're getting close.

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To having it completed, and I appreciate the leadership that the visa vice president and.

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President have been meeting in that conversation and hopefully we'll have something work out. I.

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Don't know bruce or susan if you want to talk about any of that at the mou or not. We are very.

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Close, we have a couple of companies that have come back with some concerns about verbiage and.

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They are going to be presented to roberta and her group to make sure that everything's set.

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Ting to vote for it in november, what's the gist of the verbiage, I mean, is it I have.

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Have you seen it yet there were. I responded to at least four companies in writing on different.

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Issues and I believe I satisfied their concerns- we did meet with an attorney from one of the.

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Companies, roberta tim and myself, and there were a couple of language changes from that company.

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We're awaiting that attorney to return that document. It's now been three weeks, so we're gonna.

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Contact that company and or the attorney and see what what the status is.

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Okay and then we're going to have to send that ad to all 14 companies for their review. But we.

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Believe we can do that without a meeting, because um all of the company I've been in contact with.

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All 14 companies in the last probably two weeks and all but the one we're waiting on.

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Have basically told me that they have met at their company meetings and essentially they've agreed to.

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It and they're ready to sign so we're hoping the other company will come through and we can get.

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That moving, I mean you know personally, because him professionally I'd like to see this done.

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No later than the first week of november, yes, absolutely this should be our target and get this.

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Moving so we can move forward, this should not be delayed for another board coming in to relearn and.

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um Unless there's concern about that, I mean it's not about rushing it through, but I don't.

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Know the qualities got to get done and if we put a mark on the wall I mean. Is there a concern for.

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Many of us in doing that, I'd like to see it done before this board is done, so I think that's the.

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Way it should happen yeah. My goal is to have the vote at the cc visa meeting in november.

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November's a big month just make it early. This is the seventh, the seventh november. Okay, it's.

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The first monday, okay, so monday, so then by the 10th or whatever. That thursday is let's and if.

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They they voted in the affirmative. It'll then be ready for the signature of the commissioners.

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You know take the hope out of it and let's move forward. Okay,.

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Cool um logistical standards, though, that we talked about director robinson's in the.

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Process of, and just one of the things in the fy 24 plan is the higher quartermaster and start.

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You know standardizing all of our gear, which is already standardized, but having a standardized.

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Purchasing plan, instead of having one through 14 departments going through one, so there's.

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A lot of positive- this is happening right there with a lot of the logistics part of it.

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Technology requirements are being addressed both for the employees that are assigned to our fire.

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Station as weather of any other type of upgrades, you're going to need for the fire stations, I know.

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That director has also been as heavily involved in those conversations and, and that's also mentioned.

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In the mou of what's to be provided to each of the 14s 13 stations that are getting people so that we.

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Can be prepared to accommodate, you know, leave an earning statements and time and attendance and all.

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Those kind of things that need to be had those that infrastructure is not in the stations yet.

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There's fiber there, but there's not not that infrastructure there. Yet.

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um Goal number five was talking about employment. You know, we've got a three-year plan out right now,.

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For what the stations are getting deployed and when they're getting deployed and the number of.

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People that they're supposed to get, um but after we start this I'd like to get it taken to the next.

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Step because this is just going to be a beginning to get where we're at right now and I and I could.

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Talk about that a little bit more as we get when we get down to some more of the conversations.

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So right now most of the goals in the administration section are either completed.

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Or they're underway- and I feel very comfortable with that- and in fact I think it's pretty cool.

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How it's working out so far I'll say it right now and I'll probably say it again that a lot.

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Of this work, that is being done with everything that I just mentioned is still the volunteer.

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Horsepower there's a lot of of there is a lot of support coming from the folks that that director.

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Robinson has hired, but most of the horsepower still coming from from the folks that are that.

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Are volunteering to do this? I believe next this coming month we're going to hear some from the.

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Budget folks, as well as from the communications folks, the budget piece would be very pertinent.

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Since we're getting ready to start that season soon communications, I can't it's in that's.

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Important to me right now, because not only to the folks and the fire and rescue departments.

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That need to be addressed and kept the rest of what's going on, but I think it's also important.

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That we start looking at the community and how we start relaying this message out to the community.

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Of what's going on, it's been a lot of good stuff, that's been in the paper, but I think we can get.

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Down to a little bit more detail so that they can understand what the county is providing.

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What the volunteers are still providing in this whole arena as we come, keep going down.

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One thing that is continuing concern of mine, as well as to the rest of the esac.

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Is that is, is the emphasis emphasis on the need for accurate statistical data.

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We still don't have it, and I know that's one of the things in director robinson's budget, that.

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He's going to hit- and he are going to strongly support that that happens, that we need this data.

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The information is there, we just need to put it in usable form. You can't put any rock in a box. Well.

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It is in the box, but he's still got his pencil and his papers. Okay. Now I I agree so it's you know.

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We're flying boss yeah um on the operation side of the strategic plan. Sops are currently being worked.

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On director robinson has about 30 of them that esec is going to be reviewing um and we discussed.

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This at our last meeting that if we can get to the 90 percent level on a lot of these policies,.

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So that we can get people on and in and start working we can go back and readjust. We can adjust.

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Them as we go through, that's the cool thing and I think it's the benefit of having the esac being.

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An independent organization not tied to any you know any particular person, but it will provide us.

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The flexibility to sit down there and quickly go back and hopefully adjust things as we go through.

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um The chain of command- um I know, commissioner rossi and you had your eyes- brows kind of- went.

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Up- and we talked about chapter 37 last week, but rest assured director robinson, is at the top of.

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The food chain and is the person in charge? No, it made perfect sense once I understood both.

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Administrative control and operational control, if it was that if it was administrative, it's.

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One thing, but if it's operational you know and therefore director chief to me, makes sense as long.

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As there's operational control that comes with it so okay, um the operations group continues to look.

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At the minimum staffing requirements, um they're also looking at the unit response times and trying.

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To come up with different ways of making the most out of the resources that we have today,.

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We know we have an issue and that's why we're all sitting around this room today of you know.

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Response responses and we're trying to get the biggest bang for our buck for getting the people.

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To respond um from the different stations, you know we're trying to look at ways of not trying to.

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Potentially, pull three or four pieces of equipment out of one station to complete a box assignment.

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um And and knowing that we currently have shortfalls and standings. So those are the.

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Things that we're trying to look at this can being kind of creative and and again that goes hand in.

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Hand with the running assignment so again, these are being worked with visas, uh committees on fire.

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Rescue operations, as well as ems operations um and and director robinson's right in the middle.

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Of it, with with the folks that he's hired right now trying to look at some of these things, so.

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Those were the highlights that I wanted to touch on with the strategic plan. um It was.

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Kind of interesting I was reading an article just yesterday on one of the trade magazines where.

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Former fire chief of prince george's county was making reference to some people who you.

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Had worked with in at the national fire academy, and one of those peoples was the facilitator of.

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Our strategic plan that we had dr burton clark helped us he came from frederick right. uh He.

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Lives in mount airy, but on the frederick county side yeah, but he's been all over the state. You.

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Know working with different jurisdictions and working with different jurisdictions sounds great.

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um Before we move on are any questions or from the board another thing I had.

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Is uh what's quartermaster with vendors? Are there multiple vendors that are used.

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um Not all vendors are equal, you have a preferred list of vendors. Yeah we've been, we've been working.

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With purchasing since we started everything and we've made a number of appearances to you all and.

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In the case of the turn ad gear, we actually have three authorized vendors and a lot of this we're.

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Taking advantage of the regional purchasing groups that are out there and places as far as houston,.

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Galveston and getting the best prices on the goods and services that we're using for that or or each.

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House- and I don't know I mean, does each house have the same vendor equipping that house or is.

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It personal preference to the firefighter well right now, it's personal preference. This year's.

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Budget we took over the personal protective equipment turnout gear. If you will so. We have.

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Finally, gotten the approval I think two meetings ago to move forward with that that'll.

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Be maintaining three vendors, we have a process, the the challenge was one size didn't fit all.

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We had a lot of loyalty from the volunteers and we're looking at the same outcomes with that. So.

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Rather than create too much contention all at one time from different areas, we thought that.

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You know the things that were very specific to them: turnout gear. It follows a specification.

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Regardless anybody can produce it, but there were several vendors that people had loyalty to for.

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Years and if they met our minimal procurement criteria, then they stayed on that vendor list.

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um There will be some situations, I'm working for with the fy24 budget. One with our plan is.

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To bring centralization, there's going to be some areas like fuel that we will be taking over next.

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Year, there's going to be a lot of discussion with that, because the county has their current vendor.

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And the volunteer companies as local entities have been very loyal over the years to other vendors, so.

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Okay, that's why I'm here? No yeah, I'm just it's! It's learning for me, yeah! How.

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You know equipment's procure so, yes, we've had the standards for for personal protective equipment.

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Right but each of the stations were allowed to go, get the equipment at what other that the.

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Vendor that they chose to get it from and each station allows the individual firefighter to.

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Select from and to be fair, what we had was we had a a committee, come together, spec gear and.

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That was brought through a vendor one specific vendor and a price point was made based on using.

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um Typically somebody else's spec, so we would use a larger company spec to get the the best.

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Break we can because obviously we're not buying as many sets of gears some of our companies around us.

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So that was the approved, um spec and vendor, and then some departments opted out of that if they.

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Could get a better price point for the same gear? There are a couple vendors in the area providing.

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The same manufacturer, so the manufacturer was the same right. The spec was the same, but there might.

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Be loyalties because you have literally, there are members in some of our departments that work for.

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Vendors, so sometimes they can't use that vendor because of that relationship, so they would also.

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Look at other things that they had to do, but for the most part, if they were going to a different.

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Vendor is because they were getting a better price than what we were getting, but they weren't.

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Able to provide it to the entire county as all 14 departments, but there was very few when the last.

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Time when we did the process, there was very few outside vendors other than the approved vendor and.

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The only other thing was that some of the vendors that were able to put in they couldn't provide.

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All of the gear, so pants and coats essentially, are one. That's the biggest purchase the biggest.

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Dollar amount and then you have helmets gloves, boots and hoods that in some cases they were.

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Seeking different vendors for those items, but the bigger ticket items were coming from one.

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So that was just the process, but it was done at a pretty large thing and again it was mainly for.

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Call savings because of the the relationships and with us taking that over we we reached out.

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Kevin fox is our training, health and safety person. That's underneath of his umbrella and kevin.

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Reached out with the volunteer committee and he still meets with them on a regular basis, so we've.

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Got at least for now, we've got, everybody is on the same sheet of music we've gotten a consistent.

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Price and there's still a choice of at least two two or three vendors right now, depending what part.

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Of the gear, you need our long-term goal. We just met with public works today and with taylor is.

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We're trying to um secure some warehouse space out of the public safety training center, but you'll.

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Probably hear more from the sheriff one, because they're going to have to vacate a place, we met.

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Today, about different fees, different options with that property and in the interim we're using a.

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Part of that barn building where public works came in and retrofitted, some secure storage for us. So.

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Our goal is when somebody has to turn over part of their gear that will have certain levels of it.

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In common sizes that are going to be stocked and they can turn that around a lot quicker.

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Foreign other last goal that I wanted to touch on under operations was that there has been discussion.

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At our last esec meeting, just preliminary discussion about forming a committee to look at.

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Equipment needs in the future discuss the needs for a committee to review the.

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Purchase of a new apparatus, and especially if we're going to be starting a new service.

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You know somebody wants to put a new rescue squad in and they haven't had that service in the play.

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As we want to have that conversation and the reason why we want to have that conversation.

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One is to find out okay, let's look at response areas and the need, but then it's also looking.

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At the long-term tale of maintaining that piece of apparatus that the county currently.

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Pays for is for through the budget wise for maintaining their maintaining the equipment so.

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That's something we're still going to work on and we're trying to figure out. Where would be.

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The best place to place that committee and you know when we move forward with that recommendation.

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He would be able to pay attention to the evolution of technology and industry too. New things coming.

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Up yep yep, all right, good yeah, I mean most of the departments are currently doing that now.

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um Or you know, as as well as throughout the rest of the fire department community, so we're talking.

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About mainly I'll use, nine areas of example, we just put that new ladder truck in service.

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A couple years you know a year and a half ago, all right before we put that we did go to visa.

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And say: hey we want to put this and visa gave their blessing on it, but then I'm looking at.

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It furthermore, from a county perspective, you know putting my esak chair hat on, so how much.

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Is this going to cost the county in the future as far as maintaining it, and that's that's where we.

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Want to have that conversation chief hunter, if you want to say anything about that, no you're.

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On it, we want to make sure, as we see changes in not only response patterns from what gets.

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Dispatched, but what's the necessity of it do we need to have six or seven heavy rescue squads.

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Which now cost over a million dollars and the county weighs in on this? Because because.

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We're using county funding, at least for a low interest loan, so we want to try to get a greater.

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Handle on that, another area that comes to mind is we're getting ready to take over the replacement.

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Of ambulances and we've recently had a number of companies have gone out and decided to purchase.

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New ambulances, which we welcome, because, starting today, if we purchase a new ambulance, we're not.

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Going to keep up with it, so the fact that we have new ambulances in the system is is a good thing.

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But we want to make sure we're not over extending our efforts and having too many of any one thing.

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So it's really an efficiency move and ultimately there are costs that the county assumes on each.

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Piece of apparatus- that's procured, so we want to kind of keep checks in that. So esac is.

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Probably the logical place to manage that and, as I had approach dsac and said, we've got to.

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Come up with a better way, and there shouldn't just be me, telling people what we're going to.

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Be doing it should be done under the guise of esac, because that's the purpose of having an.

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Advisory council like esac, and it keeps everybody everybody who's- a a player engaged in the process.

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And the other part of that is, it also could be ending a service. For example, we have a station.

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That has a dive team, and that would be something that if they were going to stop providing that.

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Because they no longer had the members or that something that that group should also then look.

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At to say, okay, is this something that can just end or is it something that the county now has.

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To pick up and provide another example would be: we don't currently have a county air unit.

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We don't have an air unit in the county. Now we have lots of cylinders on our apparatus. We have.

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To have a second one for every riding position and we have to so there's lots in the system, but we.

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Are don't have one when one of our departments it moved around a couple times about three stations.

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And then the last station was like look. We can't maintain this anymore right. It would have been at.

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The time if we would have had a county department, then they could have come in and said. Well, we.

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Really need to keep this going, so we're going to have to do that. So it's a it's new new services.

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As well as replacing old services that may be out date, you know that may just go away. So it's.

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Just one of those things that I thought you're asking for an airplane at first there, an air units.

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Air cylinders: it's not a bad idea. Yeah. We just needed just a drone.

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I think ted just had a heart attack, yeah.

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Bottles and things like that that we're using exactly, I believe, all the stations now have.

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Cascade systems or some have cascades and they can fill them when they get back to.

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Their stations, but it's to be able to continue and with the number of people on the scene, the.

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Number of cylinders the length of the cylinders, the cylinders now some last 45 to 60 minutes.

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Supposedly, where the old cylinders that some of us started with were called 22, 16 cylinders.

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Because that was their pressure and they were really only good for about 20 minutes right and.

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They were made out of steel and now they're made out of carbon fiber and or if you're not debating.

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If you're having more it'd, probably be about 10 minutes but yeah right but uh seriously, um the.

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The water it's in campbell right is the uh yes, the dive unit.

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But that would be a tremendous expense too, to add that service at the county level. Right if.

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They opted to get out of it. First we'd have to build a swimming pool, so that would be.

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Concrete pond we have one, I did. Okay, all right so is any other questions about.

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The strategic plan I'd like to just bring up a couple items under the fy24 budget.

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I know so under the fy24 budget, as I mentioned in june, as we've been having our esac meetings.

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And we've been having conversations, it looks like that. We want to try to do something in.

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The future fys that we've been I've personally been making a list of here's. Here's, I don't say.

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Our wish list, but our our needs, I don't want to say our wants, because it's a requirement if it's.

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A requirement the requirement doesn't go away just because we don't have the money to do it.

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So I want to try to be able to keep track of those things and the one that again I'll say this once.

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I'll probably say 10 more times before the day's over with is I'm glad to see in director robinson.

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So far proposed budget is a data analyst. Now personally, my my only concern with that is that.

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He's putting in for a part-time data analyst, I think, with the information that we're talking.

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About getting and meeting as this department grows that I would love to see this be a full-time.

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Position but again we'll see how the part-time position works out in the near term and we'll.

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See how if we need to grow that position in the future, but definitely it definitely has to happen.

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um And we really need it now, not not in july. We really could already be putting that person to.

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Work yeah, there's there's so many things that I talked to director robinson about that when.

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We talk about it, says well man. I wish you could have data for on how many times during the course.

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Of a day, we've got three ambulances going to one call yeah just so we can make up staffing.

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Or get the proper staffing and the proper people there to the location.

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um So yes, the first that's a great point. If we could have it now, that would be even better.

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um Some of the other proposals in this capital and employee positions- you know esak, is on board.

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With those, um we are well aware that the items in the budget list are based on what the budget.

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Can bear but again it's the requirement doesn't go away just because we don't have the money to do it.

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And as we continue to hear from the strategic planning groups, we will make recommendations.

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To the budget that is needed so every month we have some type of discussion.

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About that, during our meetings too, if there's anything that needs to be added to to the list.

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First, I don't know if you want to add anything else on the budget, but gee um no rick rick hit.

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It we're looking for a data analyst, which would be a part-time position initially and.

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um I I think, with our proximity to mcdaniel college and the programs they have there, that.

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Would give us potentially a supply of somebody who might have completed their bachelor's degree.

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Is now working on a master's degree and it would give them pretty decent employment plus experience.

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And we're also going to reach out to them and look at internship positions where we might be.

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Able to get someone for even a small stipend to come in and accomplish those I mean the people.

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The the data analytics capabilities that are out there today are phenomenal. We can't take advantage.

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Of them, as we just don't, have the time to sit down and do that right now, nor do we have the.

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Right software and before we invest in anything, we want to have someone that, as part of their.

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um Analytics can look at what are some of the best products there. They don't necessarily.

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Have to have fired ems stamped on them, there's probably a lot of generic things that we can use.

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And obviously, working with it in that area as well great idea, but you know our our goal, is we.

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Have to have consistent data, and so I've stopped presenting a lot of data only because, as I present.

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Data somebody else in the room will discredit that data for me um yeah. So it's an absolute.

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Priority that we get somebody that's committed to that which again we're growing our infrastructure.

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And to me, it's appropriate as we move towards 250 employees to have an infrastructure of six.

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To ten people really is a reasonable thing. If you look at organizational development and you.

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Know what you need to support something of the magnitude that we're going to be supporting so.

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Data analyst is a a primary area, we're looking at we're. Also looking at the quartermaster, which.

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Would be a civilian position so certainly at a lower cost than a uniformed person, and that.

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Quartermaster would not only maintain our warehouse wherever that ends up, but they.

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Would be linked to the vendors to the purchasing department. The other thing that we're looking at.

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Back to the word, air is long term as we replace self-contained breathing apparatus in the county.

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We're looking to centralize that, where we do a single county level purchase but also get into.

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The maintenance of that which we now contract out so the quartermaster would be the likely person to.

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Send off to the technical school for a week or so to get trained to do at least some of the repairs.

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Now to reduce the cost, if it's a complete rebuild the person isn't going to have the time right now.

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But for a lot of the annual required maintenance tasks, that person could double in there so pushing.

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The quartermaster we also want to look at adding. We have the three cars that are going out there.

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Since we get the people hired are challenges, and this comes from a number of meetings that we have.

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Each week with hr and the complexity of vti, the staffing and the management of overtime, callbacks.

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Everything else is going to be significant and the shift commander will not only be the senior.

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County departmental personal on duty to handle a lot of troubleshooting they're, also going to have.

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A district where they're running ems calls and we get it- that's going to be there initially, but as.

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Soon, as financially feasible, we'd like to add that additional car, and that way that shift commander.

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Can be freed up to handle the shift commander tasks and we can consistently cover all three.

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Battalions so that would be four additional paramedic positions if we can find the four.

D

Additional paramedics, that's the challenge and we're going to a meeting later this month with the.

D

Health department we've talked previously about how having the community paramedic, who would go.

D

Out and do some routine things and we're not sure who the best partner, whether it would be somebody.

D

From celine's office, carroll county wants to be involved, as in the hospital, the health department.

D

Wants to be involved, but pairing a nurse and a paramedic and taking the people that are calling.

D

9-1-1 multiple times that end up, in most cases, being social service, related issues and having.

D

Someone who's available just to focus on that population and they would operate five days a week.

D

40 hours a week, so it's only a single paramedic we'd train some backups to fill that space. When.

D

That person wasn't available or they took off, but we think that would have a huge impact on reducing.

D

Unnecessary calls and the reality is under the the billing process, which um we just did our.

D

Last interview this afternoon, under the building process, we're not going to be able to recover.

D

Building for people if they are underneath a code for their service that has already been paid for.

D

Once in a 30-day period by medicare, so we're still running those calls we're actually losing money.

D

The hospital is losing a lot of money, because that person comes back. They've got to do a through.

D

G on that person and there's no cost recovery, so we're looking at potential partnerships that would.

D

Be out there, where carroll hospital who's very interested, the health department's very interested.

D

That part of the position would be at no cost to us. We would pay for one paramedic position.

D

It would also be an opportunity for people who may no longer think they're effective. As you know, they.

D

Have ptsd or whatever, but gives them a purpose in our system without having to send them off for a.

D

Line of duty pension, we could recycle these people make them productive again doing things that are.

D

Helping the community helping them and looking at frederick county's program, we see a lot of.

D

Promise to what that could do for the citizens and also what it could do for our call volume.

D

And mike carolenko works in westminster can tell you the number of repeat patients that they get.

H

And there seems to be a high high frequency of those that are out there now. So we're also.

D

Going to propose that we'll let it go through the budget process and see where we end up.

G

I'm glad this is on your radar screen, because people at lightbridge are emphasizing this to.

G

Me yes, and seeing you on the front end wanting to address this. I know since the very beginning.

G

You've talked about collecting the data and analyzing it putting into policy. I'm glad.

G

You're, following through with it in light of all the other stuff, you're handling, yeah and.

D

A lot of the impetus for this I'll give them credit where credit is due is to the chief of.

D

Westminster police and to sheriff to whis, who have their own initiatives similar in nature within the.

D

um Their law enforcement agencies, but they can't handle any patient care issues. So a lot of these.

D

People have issues and the concern is well, we have to have them medically cleared and we can't do.

D

That, as law enforcement said, we've got to call 9-1-1. We've got to take them to the hospital.

D

And it goes on and I, along with commissioner frazier, I'm on the opioid council and we get.

D

A lot of good information at that group and we're working closely with them, because there is a very.

D

Defined population within carroll county and you know westminster and tontitown, there's a.

D

Lot in those urban areas, but there's a lot in the rural areas which are the you know, 80 plus, to 100.

D

Year old people that are literally living alone, they don't have any support network and we think.

D

This person can be very valuable to help them with their. You know, daily medical needs that.

D

Don't require the acuity of an emergency room and it's really a benefit to everybody, so we're gonna.

D

Put that in as well so those are our real budget highlights other than things that are.

D

Attritionally replaced we're continuing with our hiring the good thing about our timing of.

D

Hiring at this point is we're going to have an eligibility list, that's good for a year, so by.

D

The time we get the first 88 people on fiscal year, 24 will be here and the people that are.

D

Already, essentially in the budget will be able to hire them off the same list and basically stagger.

D

Things in such a way that we're bringing people on that, hopefully by august or september, we're.

D

Going to go from five of us to 150 and then we'll see what the impact is, but it's going to be pretty.

D

Significant and uh hopefully you all will count that as one of your major accomplishments, because.

D

It's been a, it's definitely been been a challenge and unfortunately, when you talk to members of the.

D

Public or even of the fire and ems service, they don't see the understand the complexities of.

D

Everything, but you know just the between the budgeting, the hr, the vetting and the people.

D

To make sure we're getting absolutely the right people and the chapter 37 the sops, everything it's.

D

It's a ongoing issue and, at the same time, we're running the fire department. All the operational.

D

Things that are out there, so it's a keeps me young, so I've got a lot more work to do then yeah.

B

We do so, that's all I had on my list. It means the things to bring up about the budget.

A

um Okay, any comments or questions if we're going to budget okay, I like the state. I hope that.

G

When the next board comes on that you have one commissioner, who's very interested in the budget.

G

Process with you, because the magnitude of it, I think, it'd be beneficial for the board as a whole.

G

To have one person going over to process to have a better understanding, because it is very complex.

G

Also, I guess special commissioner lance, you know. I think this guy owes a lot to commissioner lance.

G

And his leadership on this issue, I looked back to four years ago when I was a commissioner elect.

G

Commissioner, lance came to my house and he sent me down. I had a conversation with me.

G

About it, so it's very good to see this come through reality. This is something.

G

He has worked very hard for his accounting, commissioner, I think the coyotes him a lot.

G

Of respect for what he's done to get us to this point, so thank you, commissioner. Wentz.

G

Well, it took a vision and you had a vision. I think he kind of owes you a lot of appreciation for.

I

That position it started many years ago, right, rick, but that was just not me. It was. It was a.

I

A group of us from the carroll county volunteer, firemen's association.

I

And saw this vision he's very humble of you. Thank you with all due respect to the.

I

Newbies, that probably don't remember what that acronym means. Few in the room that did.

A

Okay, anything else on the budget and I think well, it'll just leave any comments alone.

A

um Anything else in the budget- okay, listen I'd, love to just sit here and promise. You remember me.

I

We ain't gonna, be here ted's here, though, so he can promise it off.

D

And I'll tell you right now: it will not be a single commissioner focus on fire or a.

A

Single commission focus on any entity. It will be the board of county commissioners.

A

With you mike and the team and the esac in partnership figure out what is right and.

A

What is wrong, that's the value of the esac, and um I can't say you know you've heard me.

A

Say it enough times about that that we lean on the community and the outreach, and that's.

A

What the ezek provides just like every other commission and board and organization that we.

A

Have the privilege to work with from the board of county commissioners to understand the priorities.

A

um It's not any individual and we are blessed to have a community like this, where the esac's.

A

Stepping up and saying here are the one through endless or the priorities that we need to focus.

A

Our attention on, but it will not be a commissioner focus. It will be the board of county commissioners.

A

And you get a whole lot more with five and you do with one. So, if I may clarify, I think you've.

G

Missed the point, the whole commission or board is involved, but just like all the other boards.

G

And commissions, it's not five of us sitting on those boards and commissions. It's one single.

G

Commissioner, going on those boards and commissions, okay, I didn't miss any point, but that's okay.

A

Chapter 37: is there any further discussion on this, or uh um I know we had some on thursday.

A

Which I really appreciated- and we have some due outs, dealing with um overtime, discussion.

A

And dealing with uh benefits um community, you know, comments came in we're, you know furthering.

A

You know our clarification on both um and again your input, I'm looking at you but holistically.

A

From eshack really provides the information, I think that's necessary to get us over the.

A

Hurdles if there are hurdles yeah, I agree. I yeah. I personally appreciate the conversation.

B

I really appreciated the comment that was made by commissioner frazier and and the rest of the.

B

Commissioners, that this sitting board would get chapter 37 done and we have to. We can't if there's.

B

Some things in there that are still a little wonky I'm. I would be happy with the 95 percent.

A

Wonky is that the technique set the technical fire term or something.

A

So if there's some things in there that are still need to be finalized, that's great. We can continue.

B

Working on those, but let's get the things signed and we can work on it as we go through.

B

Because we got to get the people hired addendums and modifications getting that 80 90 solution.

A

Means a whole lot moving forward. So that's all I had on chapter 37. mike, so I mean with that.

J

I think there's also an opportunity that we have in the in the time to have a conversation. I think.

J

um You know we brought up the conversation of the overtime impact. uh You know. That's.

J

Financial in the county, it's obviously um there's a piece on recruitment and retention and there's.

J

Also uh implications on morale, culture and staffing uh once we kind of get into the.

J

Operational phases and having employees in place so um bear with me real, quick.

I

I watched the hearing by the way all that I'm not sure what what are we doing now, we're not.

I

Beating a dead horse here are we no no way? Okay, I think the point was made quite clear.

I

By several folks in the room, some of them- I must say uh you- know, borderline rude, but.

I

I I think we clearly heard the point sure. Well, I think you know the little bit of what we saw.

J

um Was that there was there's a lot of, uh he was unclear where we're going with that, and I think.

J

With the implications, the implications of where we are financially and otherwise with it, so there was.

J

A conversation that was had- and um I spoke briefly with taylor about it- there's a conversation that.

J

Was had on over time um between a few people, so you know, as we've talked about it at nauseam,.

J

At this point, well, 207k means in regards to overtime. We would have to work 44 additional.

J

Hours before we received time and a half compensation, um if you look at the second page.

J

You have what what the implications were, that the county was assuming was going to be that's.

J

The red on the top of uh top right of uh table 2a there um that's significant on the county. I.

J

Understand the counties um reservations having any kind of um halftime compensation if it's going to.

J

Mean four point: to five million dollars to the county uh in liability. I think, but we're looking.

J

At and where you know, when you start looking at practices of us having floaters built into.

J

The system, when you look at the actual maximum amount of leave that's available to everybody.

J

You're going to start seeing that in these these tables here the actual amount of leave available.

J

To everybody was actually 30 to 40 percent of what the original um calculation was up at the top.

J

um For conversation's sake, we don't have any actuals right now, so we had to find.

J

A place to have a conversation about what the potential cost of this program is going.

J

To be, or at least the fair and what I see fair enough to go compensation for overtime.

J

um You know you look at the average pto days that would be after you take all.

J

Of every minute that somebody in the department could possibly take uh to.

J

um Off their pto, that gives us you know, between 1.7 people off a day to 7.4 people off a day.

J

uh In the out years, I will admit that you know there's there's some variables in there that we.

J

Can't take into account we have ethel assaili between maternity, paternity leave. Things like.

J

That you also have military leave or even workers comp issues where you have people offer injury or.

J

Whatever else, obviously those are going to be additional costs, and you know vacancies things.

J

Like that, but you know, I think it's important to say that out of that available time off that we're.

J

Looking at there on those hours nobody's going to well, typically, people don't take every single.

J

Minute of pto that they're, given in a year between sick annual and uh personal leave, so.

J

um You know, I think, all of that kind of evens out in the end when we start looking at these.

J

Worst case scenarios here so really what we're looking at is, instead of 4.5 million.

J

Dollars if you're looking on page three, this is where we are compared to what was already.

J

Budgeted you're looking at a maximum in fy 27 of the worst case scenario that we found after.

J

Taking those variables into account between floaters and otherwise to 394 thousand dollars.

J

You know I looking back, I remember muscles in a in a quarry being dealt with for that amount and.

J

That's not staffing emergencies apparatus, but if you're talking about what you said already.

E

30 to 40 percent is what it would cost you with 30 to 40 percent of the 4.5 million is 1.2 to.

E

1.6 well sure so the hours not the 394., so so that was the hour. Okay go ahead, yeah, so that.

J

I was looking at that and I getting it all the background tables but um double triple checking.

J

That when we start looking at the hours comparably with that you've, the other piece of that excuse me.

J

And this is where it comes in. I just figured this out is that when you look at the 30 to 40 percent.

J

That was just the hours calculation that was before you take out the floaters so because we.

J

Have floaters built into the system on you know this, this page, where we have you know, I believe.

J

Is the third page where you have float personnel? You have four in the first two years and then six.

J

There on out, that means that your first four or six occurrences of of over what would potentially.

J

Be overtime are absorbed by that personnel, so it actually leaves you with only one 24-hour shift.

J

That would have to be covered on average, which then takes it down from that 30 to 40 percent.

J

Down a much lower position there, so you know I I showed it to taylor, she kind of looked at it and.

J

Said you know, I have to look at it, but you know it obviously looks looks like it's something there.

J

um You know the last page and you know seeing the head shaking coming from across the table. I'm not.

J

uh Sure whether it's going to be received or not, but um you know the the practice is really where.

J

We're coming at is the fact of where this computer compares to the other counties that we're going.

J

To be competing against, I think, commissioner frazier would that point out the other day.

J

Pretty clearly, uh you know this is a recruitment retention issue. uh This is an issue of you know.

J

Even frederick county, I had a lot of guys from frederick county, giving me a call to say: hey.

J

This is something that we just overcame and it was a great risk and a lot of it played out to.

J

A point where it was completely untenable during covet for that department to continue that process.

J

And they had to change their practices to come to now, paying overtime for anything additional.

J

To their their scheduled, you know shifts so you know once again, if we're looking at 4.5 million.

J

Dollars as a potential, you know liability in the county for us to absorb. I understand that.

J

You know three hundred thousand dollars, which is 700 000 less than we already budgeted for overtime.

J

I mean that when you're looking at what's fair, what's going to keep people fully here, what's.

J

Going to attract people, I mean I've also had phone calls from several people. That said after.

J

The uh open hearing that I'll honestly I mean this might sound like I'm being hyperbolic, but I'm not.

J

I was going to apply, but I'm not coming here to redo that stuff with the overtime, so I mean that's.

J

That's what we're facing down when it starts looking at this kind of stuff, you know the the.

J

Really what it looks like here is, after you start looking at the you know, the financial implications.

J

For the individual 160 for a for a part-time shift additional, you know when you're giving up time.

J

With your family for a holiday or whatever else at least you're, getting that back, you know to be able.

J

To you know have that um you know to be able to pay an extra bill or something like that out with.

J

That or even have a little bit of savings, so you know, obviously all these issues come and I think.

J

Also, you know at the end of the uh assessment the sheriff's office, which we are closest comparison.

J

uh It's it also works 168 hours in a 2018 period and gets overtime uh for the minute.

J

After they, they work extra, so we're just looking at some kind of equity consistency on that as well.

B

I don't have anything else on chapter 37. This is um now mike. I appreciate the.

A

The work you put into this and the homework and packages and packaging this together.

A

um Spoke a little bit too fast for me, but I'm gonna try to put a lot of capture it as best. I.

A

Can also a few big words that I'm going to have to go to this dictionary. I think, but that's okay,.

A

um But uh I I think again now it's time to just digest this and absolutely you know.

A

um Getting that from you know mike, I appreciate you know you, along with.

A

Ted and the team digesting this, you know just seeing what you know. The next steps are going.

A

To be so, but I appreciate the data you put in front of us, uh you know, and I just have to.

A

Really it's too much right now, but that's okay and uh okay. So, but I I but I do appreciate the.

A

Work being done, um and and honestly, the gist from the last slide is showing how to become.

A

Not just equitable but competitive within the region as we're stepping up and standing this.

A

You know department, uh it is it's going to be significant and it's going to be a significant.

A

Challenge so how do we stay competitive and that's where I think you want to go at the end of this? So.

A

um Any comments on this okay um impacts of hiring delays, so I wanted to just give some situational.

B

Awareness on what's going on around us as far as hiring right now, yeah um frederick county, is.

B

Getting ready to begin another hiring process on the 31st of october to the 20th of november.

B

That's to start a class in april.

B

Howard county just closed theirs on 16 september, montgomery county just closed theirs. On 31st of.

B

August, so a lot of those folks have already got people in a pipeline or applicants in a.

B

Pipeline as they're going through and that's just the ones that I looked up last night.

B

Thoughts, I know baltimore county has things going on versus? What's their.

B

Status- I don't I don't know, particularly they hire continuously at this point. This.

D

Year, which is about at least 100 people a year, so there's there's lots of other stuff going.

B

On in other jurisdictions, too, I know ariana ramos didn't really do something as well too.

B

But I want to give you an example what we may be looking at in the future or in regards to.

B

Hiring I have some numbers that I want to share from frederick county and their recruit training.

B

Class that will start this coming january, so when they started they had 658 applicants.

B

Of those 658 applicants only 340 took the actual written test, so that could be for.

B

Any number of reasons these folks got hired someplace else. They got conditional offers.

B

Somewhere else they found other employment or they just said- I'm not interested anymore.

B

Of those 340 that took the test, 270 participating in their physical ability test.

B

What they want to do is want to extend 120 conditional offers out to people to hire 50 people.

A

So out of that 270 they are, would you say they want to issue 120 conditional offers yeah.

B

And then from those 120 conditional offers, they want to hire 50 people.

B

That would be two classes of 25 each that they want to start. At the same time,.

B

Now the hiring process that they're entering into right now for 31st of october until 20 november.

B

That is for an april class for another class of 25 people, so within the next year they want to.

B

Hire 75 people to their department and of those 75 people 32 are being funded through a safer grant.

B

Which means that they'll have to pick the county will have to pick up after in year, four paying for.

B

Those employees so again, I just want to provide some situational awareness of what's going on.

B

Currently, now when we say that these folks are being hired, they're being hired to go through.

B

A several month, training program to become emt's, firefighters, ride the ladder trucks.

B

All those type of things which will be months we're looking at hiring lateral people, people.

B

Who are already trained, so our our pool of people is is smaller than what we're.

B

Looking at than looking at the general public who's applying to be a firefighter.

A

The priority that we have is firing is hiring ems.

B

Firefighters, emts and firefighter paramedics and paramedics correct sir firefighters.

A

Firefighters, slash slash, so it's not one or the other cross-train dual role at all times. Everybody.

A

We want to hire, except for paramedics, except for paramedics, we're going to hire paramedics only.

D

So the others are dual role: fire and dms. Yes,.

A

Yep, most of the stations are currently hiring them fire ems yeah, because they can.

A

Really, but the critical role we have we need critical need. We had is ems, yes,.

H

I understand the environment when you say delays of hiring impactive, hiring delays.

E

What do you mean you mean so what I mean the longer that we wait to begin our hiring.

B

Process the longer other countries have already started we're not delaying anything, because the.

E

Way that sounds like we're trying to push us off. No, no we're not we're trying to move this.

E

Long quickly as possible is the way I see it and- and I I said that with chapter 37, I.

B

Applaud the group for a second and trying to get that on. I'm not throwing stones at.

B

Anything about anybody trying to slow anything down. I'm just trying to make the point that.

B

It should have been phrased differently. Okay, that's what I'm saying, because it just makes it.

E

Sound like we're we're holding them out, we have since I've been here. We haven't tried to hold.

E

Us back at all we're trying to move forward as quickly as we can just takes a lot of time to get.

E

Everything in the right order and move everything forward, because when we start onboarding people, we.

E

Want to have our ducks in the road basically, so we don't have to oh wait that we didn't think about.

E

That we think we want it all thought about again. I am not throwing questions, it is the process.

A

Today's environment yeah, I understand exactly what you're saying: okay yeah yeah makes sense. You know.

K

We've come a long way in the last couple years and just to be sitting here trying to finalize this at.

K

This time says a lot could be you know a year or two away, we're not we're moving ahead fast. I think.

K

It's going for government we're moving extremely fast, uh the commissioners my background. I firmly.

B

Get that from trying to do similar things, what we're trying to do here. I I totally get that thank.

K

You for hanging in with us, I mean we're. Getting there same, we have the same goal. You have yeah and.

B

That's again, I'm just providing I wanted to it's a provide situation, awareness, no gosh that makes.

E

Sense- and I appreciate that yeah yeah, um the other thing that I wanted is most of the carroll county.

B

Fire departments, if you go to their websites, everybody's, accepting applications, everybody's.

B

Still trying to fill their staffs and situate and staffing for their units that they currently.

B

Are staffing today, but we're all bidding against each other, so hopefully by starting this process.

B

When we do start this process, we'll we'll stop all that you know of us.

B

Trying to bid against each other for people are they going to have to be rehired or go.

A

Through if they're hired today, yes, they will have to go through really hard yeah through.

A

So the incentive of being hired today is really just to get on the ground, make money and do.

A

What you love doing, you're, taking a temporary job right now, because now within for every company in.

D

Carroll county we're within two years of them no longer hiring anybody, so people that sign on today.

D

Are taking essentially a temporary job they're getting their foot in the door.

D

And then the question will be is whether or not we believe they are at the level.

D

Of being a lateral higher for pay scale, how many applications come into the 13.? No idea.

F

It's not a it's, not a fight for the job. It's it's pretty much. Who who applies, gets higher.

F

I mean there's really not especially when you get to the paramedic level, if you're trying to hire a.

F

Paramedic, if you have more than one applicant, it's a it's probably a surprise. We have three.

D

Currently, from the volunteer companies, three paramedics were processing, they have to go.

D

Through the medical director and mike stoner, in order to get validated to be paramedics in.

D

Carroll county, so there's three right now and the large part of the challenge of this also is the.

A

Isn't it the the schooling we talked about this, the the wait time from higher to actually.

A

Being that's on the ground doing the job, that's more volunteers, right right! These are people that.

D

Are pre-qualified they've already done all that they've done the wait time on their own they're.

F

Trained and ready to go, the only other part of that that is, it remains to be seen most of our.

F

Jurisdictions around us have tried lateral, hires and, for the most part they have less.

F

Than 50 percent success rate in retaining those people past three four years, for whatever reason.

F

So that's another thing that we need to keep on our our agenda, because this isn't going to be.

F

Like we're going to be done, hiring in two years right, no, no right! No, even though you think all.

F

We're young department we have a long time ago, most likely we will be continuing to hire and.

F

To fill those numbers indefinitely yeah as people and we'll also have to start looking.

B

At what I'm talking about a couple years down the road here is when we talk about the minimum.

B

Numbers of people that we're hiring right now in order to do some of the things where we grow our.

B

Own, where we start our own academy classes and things like that, there's going to have to be you.

B

Know staff build up to do those kind of things too, because if we can take them from the field.

B

To teach an academy class now we're taking them from the field and we're paying over.

B

Time and we're trying to fill that void too. So all of these things are trickling down.

B

um And the other point that I made about the volunteer department, still advertising for people.

B

We get this done this year, we're only talking about three stations. Those other stations could.

B

Have to continue to hire, you know so now, they're all competing events, three years.

B

The county government fire department, so it's going to be it's going to be.

B

A rough ride, but it's not anything that I don't think can be overcome.

B

um One thing that I would like to suggest and and I'm glad ted and taylor are in the room and.

B

And with commissioner rothstein sitting here for going on the next board, since we are just going.

B

To begin hiring this fiscal year, we still have a lot of money that hasn't been spent for payroll.

B

And if our list is long enough that we can start year two hiring in year, one.

B

That would help get us that much closer ahead of the game when we start year, two.

B

Did I make any sense with that comment that I just made I'll just say, there's.

B

Money and there should be money in the pot to help pay for hiring years. Twos people.

B

In year, one because we haven't spent a whole year's worth of payroll.

B

In year, one do we believe we can recruit that many, I don't know, that's what I'm saying. That's what.

A

We have, as we have to look. Let me see what our listings yeah and our other issue is also going.

D

To be one of retention, we may have a lot of people come and apply for our jobs and within six months.

D

We might have a 20 turnover rate right, which is why we're not buying them all deluxe uniforms.

D

Right away because we're going to bring people in and then they're going to get that phone call from.

D

Montgomery or baltimore county and again it gets back to making sure we have the right retention.

D

Elements in place and it's going to happen regardless by the same time there might be people.

D

That are unhappy in those other counties that say hey. I live in carroll county. I grew up there. I'm.

D

Going to work in carroll county, so it I can't sit here and predict things that haven't happened yet.

D

That's the biggest challenge. I thought that's your job well, but part of it I'll. Add that to the team.

A

So I understand the argument by using you know the additional funds, but I think it is important.

A

To understand whether we will have the ability to even recruit that many I mean I agree before.

A

Divorce type of thing, so I don't know yeah, I'm just I'm just I'm living in nirvana right now,.

B

When I make that come we're going to have, you know a lot of people that are going to want to.

B

Apply for the jobs I just wanted to yeah. If we have to see that hey. This is something that I.

B

Would like to discuss if our list is long enough, that we can get into something indirectly we're.

D

Going to be doing that because the people off of our hiring list are going to extend on that list.

D

Into july the 1st of 2023, so they in fact will be hired off that same list. The challenge will be is.

D

Getting those first 88 on board we're going to start the lieutenant hiring process in november.

D

And at the earliest we aren't going to have the first lieutenant on board till probably january.

D

And then, once the 12 lieutenants are on board, then we start the hiring process. Three weeks to.

D

Advertise the written test, the physical ability, all the steps in the process, uh it's going to.

D

Be a challenge to have the remaining people on board by june. The 30th correct, to be quite honest,.

D

About it right, I think when we look at kind of recruitment process, I think this first year is.

J

Going to be the easiest of all of them, because we already have you know we could probably look.

J

At probably 75 to 80 applications coming from the people who are already working in the county right.

J

um You know that I looking at these things I mean rick was talking about you, know, frederick county.

J

Their hiring process, I mean this- is consistent through all all the jurisdictions they're just.

J

Getting I mean historically, the police were the ones that had the hard time bringing anybody any.

J

You know recruiting anybody uh overnight. It all sudden became our issue too, that we stopped being.

J

Able to get applicants- and I know you know the job force out- there has been so many weeks but.

J

um You know I'm not sure what we're looking at feasibly in year two. But you know the importance.

J

Of leveraging the people that we have here that you know that recruitment process is going to.

J

Be key for that success um sheriff louise had it on the head. You know this article that was.

B

In the paper this past sunday about people not wanting to be, you know not applying for the jobs.

B

In the police department, like they used to the same things being said in the fire department,.

B

Right steve, when you all got started, there was thousands of people that were applying for 15 jobs.

B

um It's not that way anymore. Some counties are extending their application process just to get.

B

Their numbers up, I will say I I commented in that article and it cut my comment because I.

A

Did say supporting the men and women in red and blue and they just said blue, I think really, but.

A

uh Yeah, because of these issues, and our greatest need is going to be for paramedics and paramedics.

D

Are really the premium employees frederick county, I think, got seven paramedics out of those numbers.

D

They were down, I read the other day, the city of salisbury, not the biggest economic engine,.

D

In the world they're offering a ten thousand dollar bonus for paramedics, maybe we should.

D

All offer twenty thousand somebody fell out her chair over here he's not he didn't even smile.

D

But that you know it's, it's just going to be the challenge, which is why we're going to single.

D

Roll paramedics as well, if somebody wants to be a paramedic and do that for 25 years, they love being.

D

A paramedic we want them employed right and when they go on a fire, they can take blood pressures.

D

It's you know it's universal, I mean everybody said you get around the state yeah. I was with.

I

A bunch of state leaders this week and the topic just came up, and it's it's just not here.

I

And you know, go a step further and look at the hospitals and there are empires they're having a.

I

Heck of a time down at bb health in delaware, they're providing ninety thousand dollars.

I

uh Sign on bonuses for certain nurses that will come on board, so it's not just that and not in.

I

To counter your comment mike, I know you get around, but I get around too no absolutely and.

I

I've talked to quite a few people that are just waiting in the queue oh yeah, regardless of what.

I

What is listed here, what we do that really like what's happening and really want to get.

I

In on the ground floor, so I want to make sure that your comment doesn't, you know end up as.

I

Being the you know, one of those people not coming because of your dog. That's that's not that that's.

I

Sincerely not the truth, there are people that are waiting in the queue that want to get in.

I

Here on the ground floor, and regardless of what our decision is on the specifics in 37, that is.

I

What it is, but I'll tell you. I've talked to many. I talked to two kids in caroline county last week.

I

That would love to relocate here because they don't like what's happening there. So just hang.

I

On I might be I'm going to say I'm cautiously optimistic at this point and I'm not throwing.

I

The negative comments out like that. Well just to clarify too on our side. You know I think.

J

It's important to look at the kind of the what that will do to us, because I you know when you.

J

Look at anne arundel county yeah- I'm not here to debate that no certainly, but you know, but I just I.

I

Wanted to make that point clearly, and I appreciate that there are folks that are they got the door.

I

Cracked and they're ready to open it up once chief robinson there, it is converted his pants.

D

And one of the other things- and I know I mentioned at another meeting- is we're going to focus again.

D

With our est students- and there might be another type of employment that going forward- I gotta just.

D

Met the workforce development person where we might be able to develop an apprenticeship you.

D

Graduate you're 18, you can drive an ambulance. We hire you on three days a week, putting up.

D

Extra ambulances and those other days a week to make your 40 hours, we send you to the community.

D

College and you take the paramedic program and at the end of that program, you're already.

D

Hired with benefits, so the nine thousand dollar tuition assistance pays for that program. It's.

D

A win for the college, it's a win for us and we would have them sign some type of contract that.

D

Says we're giving you your education you've got to work for us as a paramedic for three years.

D

And that we might be on to something with that, where we're now going to recruit our.

D

Own homegrown people we're going to train them at the college, which has an excellent program. We're.

D

Going to get more connected to and now we've got young people wanting a paramedic job again, they're.

D

Going to see what the other paramedics are getting and why we might lose them, we've now gotten five.

D

Years out of those people- and so there are only 24 years old- they can still go out and do what.

D

They do, but we could always have a steady flow of those people which you know might address.

D

We'd have to put a cap on it, but it would be a win for the county and that we would get.

D

Three or four extra ambulances during the daytime hours, it would be a win for that person because.

D

We're developing them and then, through the apprenticeship program it becomes an official.

D

Department of labor program they go out as a journeyman paramedic firefighter, so we're gonna.

I

Don't forget to uh that you're 24.72 is resonating right and that's what people want. There's people.

D

That are working in baltimore city and they're working 12-hour shifts in baltimore, county 10.

D

Or 14 and they're running 20 calls and a shift they're not getting meals, they're going home beat.

D

Up and they go back to their stations, they don't have a support group like you'd think they would.

D

And some of those people are getting tired of that. There's there's a few things out there yeah no, no.

I

And there's a lot of looking good to a lot and a lot of viable retired leadership that we can.

D

Tap into so I'm optimistic on the recruitment. The last bit of my statement, I was going to say.

J

Is just how I think at the same time, with even those challenges we do see a lot of people that.

J

Are coming here and there's, hopefully I think that will really you know, builds up this hiring process.

J

Is the fact exactly what you just said, steve was: is that ground floor mentality is that you see a.

J

Lot of people, but you know, there's a lot of your compatriots from baltimore county that are giving me a call too saying: hey, listen, you know I might be able to come over there and do another career.

J

And get that in, and I do think those things are positive. I think the things that you brought up.

J

Are things that are building this department up? I think it's honing in some of those issues is.

J

Important- and I think the conversation is valid and important to have um you know, but also the.

J

Same time, I, this is hugely positive. What we've accomplished here and the director robinson I have.

J

To give a lot of kudos to the the leadership he's given us through this and built that up.

A

Okay, yeah, please your education paid for process that has a lot of merit to it.

K

There's a lot of large companies out here. Do this uh with young students become more.

K

For us here x, amount of time here, the other time you're in class or whatever.

K

Get their education paid for, especially with the rise across the college, education.

K

uh A lot of people may fall all into that. We can win for everybody. Well we're talking about the.

G

Education, the college offers the cdl program. Is that something you all would be able to utilize.

G

It do you need a cdl to drive a fire truck. Is that something? Well? That's that's a conversation.

H

In several meetings, the easy answer is yes to know. The chief has the ability to say that they.

F

Can have an in -house program to allow them to drive in some of our departments are using that.

F

um As not having to get cdls, but then you have to have a robust system to be able to train.

F

In an essentially a liability attached to that absolutely well, that goes back to chief cecilia.

D

As a devil best- and we we've worked with her in risk management and and maryland's a little bit.

D

Different than most states, we have what's called a non-commercial cdl, which you do everything for the.

D

Cdl but you're not required for the dot physical, which technically is covered under our physical.

D

Occupational relationship that we have so I was wondering if there can be a cost analysis done.

G

That, if we did do all the cdl proper training, would we recover that, potentially in a better.

G

Liability policy is that a potential something to look into it may not be a nominal okay, yeah.

A

I don't think it's uh fiscal, I think it's a more risk association and uh you know in the military.

A

When it comes to equipment, you know we would um take equipment out by putting an x on it and the.

A

Commander had the authority to do a circle x to allow that equipment to go forward. You don't want.

A

To do that, you know you want to step over and get the equipment ready. You want people to be.

A

Trained appropriately and not have to circle x, a driver, and so, if you're being hired for a driver.

D

Position here, you're going to have to produce that license with your application. Okay and we're.

D

Going to validate every one of them through the mba checks, so I was wondering if younger people.

G

Coming in, if that's something you've been offered at we'd, put you in a cd program as well, whether.

G

It's worthwhile or not, they could better prepare them as being competitive. Okay and the new dot.

D

Regulations require completion of one of those schools anymore. Okay, so that carol program is.

D

Going to just yeah before we could do in-house training and get people you know trained up on.

F

This walk around on the skills and then take them up in the fire equipment to get tested. Now.

F

You can't do that without having that additional, almost like what they've required with the initial.

F

16 year olds needing driver's ed on some kind of driver's ed program now you need it for cdl.

F

Yeah, so our safest thing right now, liability, otherwise is show up with your license. Okay and.

D

We save all those headaches. Okay, what else this is not definitely not to cut short, but uh we are in.

A

Open discussion so yeah we're an open discussion. The only a couple things that I wanted to say.

B

And uh one is esac is still down one citizen rep, and I encourage all of our esec members to.

B

Go out and talk to citizens that, in case they'd, be interested in serving on this board.

A

um I apologize to the system rep from a specific area, or is it just a citizenry? They just can't.

B

Have any fire department affiliation yeah, which is okay, which is a tad bit challenging to me?.

I

After seeing the progress that we made, it's really difficult to bring someone on board as a citizen.

I

Rep that virtually has zero experience or zero knowledge of fire department. It almost takes.

I

Them three months to learn the acronyms, because we don't stop longer with a group in the room.

I

When we're off on a tear, so you know I had one of the citizens reps comes up came up to me. That's.

I

Not serving any longer and said you know, I just I couldn't get up to speed and I felt uncomfortable.

I

So I'm going to suggest before I get out of here in 54 days.

I

That perhaps we relax that particular uh part of the citizen rep. Now it's not going to be.

I

Up just to me, but I'm going to suggest it and I don't think it should be a uniform person. But I.

I

Think someone who's got some basic knowledge of fire service would be a good fit on esac.

I

So I'd love to talk to you about that offline, we're retired or we're retired or whatever.

I

Yeah, I just and again not you know not the vice president of harney or something, but somebody.

I

Who's been around that's just because they've got a son or somebody in the service or whatever.

I

That's direct affiliation, really, that's the way. It reads so I'd like to try to relax that in the most.

I

And the best method that we can talk offline, we can do that, but you got a lot of carroll county.

D

Is a an area where you've got retired people from everywhere living here? Well, the other thing is, I.

I

Mean in 55 days recruit him would he be very hard pressed to find somebody? That's not associated.

I

With a volunteer fire department right but I'll give you one, I mean if for no other reason, they.

I

Go make pancakes everything third sunday of the month. You know so it's just well, and it says it.

F

Says you mean you have to pull from the bible, our bylaws? It says not have active affiliation.

F

With any fire department, so if they were passed or not a member of one of our stations and they came.

F

From anne arundel or they came from somewhere else, where they have the background in it, but.

F

Not necessarily from carroll county, it could be interpreted like that's the way it's written. Okay,.

H

All right, okay, um we know there's going to be challenges and we don't know what some.

B

Of these challenges are until we start going down this path, um and- and I certainly get that.

B

I'm going to speak on behalf of esic, but we look forward to continuing to provide advice and.

B

Guidance as we continue to make progress on this much needed journey as we continue to establish.

B

This county accommodation fire department. So that's all the comments that I had today.

A

Commissioners have any other questions with me or anything down the line.

A

Mike, no, I just say uh is we have included chapter 37 with esac for a reason, and I.

D

Certainly recognize because I can't do everything by myself and I can't take.

D

Credit for anything because everyone has been involved since my day, one volunteer.

D

Career all the organizations and what I want to do when we start getting career people on board.

D

Is be an unofficial group, but I want to get the leaders of probably on a monthly basis of cc visa.

D

The iff and the esac chair to come sit down with me an hour each month.

D

Beyond all these other groups, not that they're not critical but just to informally advise me on.

D

Different things- and I look to to this group- you know when we're reading things and getting things.

D

Approved because you know, if you give somebody too much power power, will corrupt, not a title change.

D

Necessarily, but I I do enjoy when you say no but and then go it's okay. No. Thank you, ladies. I would.

C

Like to specifically thank you, uh commissioner rosting for coming to our commissioner's meeting.

C

Friday night, what we're trying to encourage is the uh incoming commissioners to have some.

C

Sort of experience with what's going on and bring them into the fold as it were, and uh commissioner.

C

Excellent job of helping us to navigate a lot of the questions that they had and that we had and.

C

I specifically want to thank you for that, not that I'm disregarding you guys, but he is coming back so.

C

We decided that there's no place I'd rather have been. I know she did very good questions asked him.

C

Fascinated that night, I really do appreciate it. Absolutely volunteers are here to support this.

C

Entire endeavor absolutely continue to do that and by the way it was dirty past water. So just saying.

I

I really appreciate what you're doing after being in this business for 48 years.

L

I'm one of the first females who came into the county um I'm glad to see this coming.

L

To fruition, and I'm glad to see you doing it at an equitable time and making sure it's done.

L

Correctly not haphazardly when we have to go back and redo and redo and redo. So thank you, foreign.

H

I just want to thank all of you for all the work you've done. You know I'm at the end of.

G

My term but I'll try to work with you as best I can in my future capacity. I know that there's.

G

Hundreds and hundreds of people behind all of us that brought this up to this point and all.

G

Those people behind the scenes out there watching you deserve a lot of credit and respect for what.

G

You did- and this is a manifestation of your love, the love of your your community and your county. I.

G

Think that's why all of us here serve because we truly love carol kiani, and this is about.

G

Modernizing and bringing carroll county up to a level of quality of life that we haven't had in.

G

This realm of ems, so I want to thank everyone out there and once again I want to reiterate my.

G

Thanks to commissioner lance, he gave a lot of credit to everyone out there, but he is on this.

G

Board and he's a representative, your industry and he's done it very well. So thank you to everyone.

B

Our level of service is changing because of the how our.

B

Let me just say this: I will firmly believe- and I will stick to my guns to the day- ends that.

B

The level of service that has been provided to the county has been top-notch we're not doing.

B

This because the level of service is going down, we're trying to keep it at the level where it's.

B

Supposed to be said, I'm just glad we're here, but at this point uh you know six years ago I wasn't.

K

Sure we're ever going to get to here, and here we are right on the verge of making history. So thank.

K

You thank you all for all the time you put into this, because I know it took a lot of time. A lot.

E

Of hours a lot of late meetings, I do understand that I'm I'm very happy that this will be done.

E

Before I'm out of office, I really am because, to be honest with, like commissioner weaver just said, I.

E

Didn't think it was going to happen why I was still in office, but I'm very happy that it is.

H

And when we're out of here, I hope that the other board continues to put the importance on this. That.

I

Needs to be uh six seven years ago, I was beaten on the heads of a couple of commissioners about.

I

These two that didn't understand it at all, uh but you know we're here now and I'm glad we are.

I

And we've had some setbacks, but uh oh no, I think we're in a good spot. I really do. I think I hate.

I

Hearing negative comments that gets us on an off ramp somewhere. That's why I'm so passionate about.

I

Coming back and focus at this point because I do want to see this and these things that get thrown.

I

As these curveballs just throws the fastball baby, we can hit that because that's downhill.

I

And we're going to get it we will but but don't don't throw these don't throw these things out. I.

I

I was a little bit disheartened at the public hearing, but some of the comments, so you know.

I

For and kind of, strong smart individuals here will get it.

I

And thank you guys. I've been at some of these esac meetings that you know my wife text me and says.

I

Still at the public safety course too yeah, I'm still here so anyway, a field fence, aaron, judge.

A

Number 62, it's the same. Yeah right life is good. I need emotions, it sure was. I need a motion to.

A

Adjourn so move. Thank you. Thank you. Second second motion. Second, all in favor all right.