Carroll County, MD Board of County Commissioners Open Sessions, 1 Nov 2022

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From YouTube: Board of Carroll County Commissioners Work Session - Ag/Conservation Text November 1, 2022

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A

Okay, good morning, it's uh november 1st and uh commissioner ed rothstein district, five.

A

We have uh our ag conservation text will get through this this morning.

A

Before all sessions, please, let's uh rise for the pledge of allegiance. The moments counts.

A

One nation, under god, indivisible with liberty,.

A

Okay, we have a handful of screens up and uh the agenda.

A

On the uh on the screens and linda, why don't you just kick this off and facilitate.

A

Where we're gonna take this this morning, absolutely well good morning, commissioners.

B

um And good morning, county administrator, windham hope everyone's doing well, it's been a while.

B

um Since we've met to discuss this, the last time that we were here talking about conservation, texas,.

B

Was during the september 22nd public hearing, so the comment: the record period has closed from this.

B

Effort um so today we are going to go over the public comments that we received at the hearing.

B

And then emailed to us and then we're going to just give a brief presentation of ag remaining.

B

Portions from the public hearing that was one of the bigger items that came up with uh various.

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Comments for that, so we're just going to go over again what those are and what that means have a.

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Discussion regarding that and then discuss what we call the implementation resolution, which is the.

B

Final step in putting this all together, we have time scheduled with the board november 3rd, which.

B

Is this thursday, if you're ready for adoption of the text, then at that point in time we'll be done.

B

All of the entire code would have been reviewed section chapter 158, I should say zoning code.

B

um All districts and updated since the completion of the 2019 amended master plan.

B

um So with that, I'm going to hand it over to mary to go over the summary of comments from.

B

The september 22nd public hearing, which is in the packet that was emailed to you,.

C

Okay, as linda said, we had our public hearing. We had two of them on september 22nd, one during the.

C

Day and one um virtual in the evening, um these are the comments in front of you that we receive.

C

You'll see the pattern most of the comments. Let's see, there's four of them. Six people testified most.

C

Were in opposition to the proposed limits on remaining portion, you also received comments.

C

Regarding opposing existing solar requirements for the dedication of the ag, pres easement, that.

C

Isn't something you really discussed in detail in your work sessions, but that was brought to.

C

Your attention by these people, you also had a support for an appreciation for the changes to.

C

The accessory dwelling unit provisions- mary- can you, uh you know, tell us the gist of the.

A

Opposition of the five was it all the same issue. um Actually, if in the powerpoint, I think we bring.

C

Out more of a specific point, so that might help, and also you also in the written comments from.

B

Which are the next pages in your packet right um from mr bale? There was support for that limitation.

C

So we tried to break that out in the powerpoint. Maybe that would be a better time. The record all.

D

Six of the top they're all attorneys right, um except for mr swisher yeah, but mr swisher's for.

C

The idea people- yes, the five- that oppose the limits on remaining portion- are open, correct.

B

Except for captain beaver, that is, that is correct. Yes, he is not an attorney all right.

E

Oh really chuck coleman and dave bowersox, no.

C

Okay and that's all that we heard that's all that you heard that day and then you received.

C

These written comments, okay um over the the record, was held open for 10 days and you have the written.

C

Comments in your packet- and this is what these were- the comments that were received um again.

C

Mr kyler, mr shaver opposed the limitations on remaining portions and also mr kyler opposed.

C

um Solar on ag land at all, I believe um the maryland building industry association was in.

C

Support of the changes to the cluster subdivisions, um mr romero opposed the limitations on remaining.

C

Portions, mr bell supported, and you have probably a three two or three page email from him, laying.

C

Out why he's supporting those limitations, and then mr beaver also sent in additional.

C

Comments because the three minutes he didn't say everything he wanted to say in the three months.

B

And going to the maryland building building industry um with their changes, their support.

B

Of the cluster again, that was just making the conservation zone with the same provisions.

B

As we have in the residential zones, where you don't have to submit two plans, that's all that.

B

Was there's no changes to density or intensity? Anything like that's just the planned submission.

B

So I just wanted to point that out that that is what you've already done in other districts.

C

So I think I would also say you didn't receive a lot of comments and I think.

C

Part of it is the process we use this time with the ag conservation work group.

C

um We started that last year about this time. Thank you, price yeah, some prices, and so I.

C

Think we got a lot of comments throughout from them and a lot of buy-in from different groups.

E

Actually, that group hammered out a lot of your issues way ahead of time, and that was.

E

That's a that's a race car, it was and I've already I've heard from josh it's up to about.

D

A half a dozen folks that are in this scenario right now that just didn't understand it and.

D

Now that they see it they're like oh okay, we get it and they're. They were actually yeah.

F

In favor I agree and they're in my district, which is by the way the has the most ag. Okay.

D

I do know a little bit about what I'm talking about, because I reach out to people. That's the.

D

Only way to get to the bottom of these things talk to the folks that actually own these properties.

D

And uh it's interesting to hear what they have to say when you remove the attorneys and all that.

D

From the mix so no disrespect, but you know talk to the people that actually it's going to uh affect.

D

You know you know my feelings. I want to put every attorney out of the business well when it comes.

A

To uh yeah- and uh you know, make it clear and uh definitely no disrespect on my comment. But for.

A

All the right reasons, we do not need [music] um more attorneys when we had very clear guidelines.

A

When it comes to this- and I do applaud to work done over the last year to get us where we are.

A

And make it very clear on the guidelines, so it has much less time for doubt and litigation and.

A

All that gray area, stuff and yeah so again, this work group, just as a refresher, was really had a.

B

Wide breadth of different types of people from the ag community from the soil conservation district.

B

Alcohol farm producers, our ag liaison through economic development, diana hair, various attorneys.

B

Were on this group, so we had a lot of knowledge and a lot of depth and during that time we brought.

B

To them, and they brought to us all the concerns and issues they felt were important in the ag.

B

Zone and like we said I had, we had a leader of the alcohol farm producer industry, kevin.

B

Addex- and there was really nothing that he added- I know- there's been some discussion that has been.

B

Come up after the fact of all of this, allowing I don't want to call it a full-blown restaurant.

B

So to speak, but but something to those terms on those lands. And that came in after the comment.

B

Period had closed down, so it's nothing that we had discussed as our work group in that issue. Never.

B

Came up during our six-month long work, group or internal concept, and we never received any.

B

Comments during the comment period regarding that issue of allowing basically restaurants.

B

In the ag zone specifically pertaining to alcohol farm producers, yes.

E

Yes back here today uh which it was an accessory use on that it would, and I I look. I know the.

E

Property, what we're talking about, which makes a lot of sense in this case, but I don't know.

A

What's that kind of reviewing that too, one thing I would suggest is that maybe that'd be taken up.

B

As a separate uh endeavor sometime in the future, it's substantially different than what has been.

B

Presented- and we believe it's substantial that perhaps you would be best served by.

B

Going out to a public hearing, because this is a totally new concept, I believe from the.

B

Ag work group again that event banquet facilities really took care of that.

B

So if someone wanted to do that type of thing, that would be the provision.

B

um By which they would do that under as opposed as opposed to allowing for basically restaurants.

B

On these lands, we haven't done any research or investigation regarding that, so maybe that would.

B

Be a future if that was a topic that another board would want to jacob. If you want to explain the.

B

Situation of what you received- okay, it was just basically an accessory use to a alcohol production.

E

Or I mean if they have a agreement and you have alcohol production into this and exceptionally.

E

Used circulation, could it's up to you? Well, this is some language. I don't know. This is the language.

D

Because it pertain to this decision today or should we look at it separately.

B

I believe it should be looked at, so I probably hear what it's about.

D

Okay, where does that stop? Because I don't know because there's there's two other ones right.

D

Now that are in flux that are in the same thing, they should be in the room. When would.

E

We look into these if we uh that would be up to a new, I believe the new board at this point in.

B

Time could make the decision if they wanted to make an amendment to what's being decided. Okay,.

A

Let's bring it back for a second commission. What are you asking us.

A

To do I just wanted to consider what this was uh an accessory use to farm alcohol production.

D

Which would apply to this entire ly, the entire thing yeah? It's too big a task. We can always.

E

Bring it up later, like glenn just said, but I just I thought this would be without you bring it up.

E

This meeting uh consider uh add remainders or at least remaining portions, and if they already have.

E

The farm, alcohol production is it possible to have an accessory use to that? Well, this, I believe, is.

G

Is is a suggested uh amendment to a portion of the farm alcohol producers portion of the zoning texts.

G

um I'm just guessing because this is the first time I've seen this or heard about this.

G

um The concern I think from linda's angle is this is not something that was brought up during the.

G

Public hearing in any way shape or form, and we probably should go through a whole public hearing.

G

Process that people can weigh in before making this, because it is a significant change from.

G

What was either presented from staff or brought up during the public hearing, so the concern would.

G

Be a proper one concern. A legal concern would be proper public notice. The second concern would be.

G

um The board's understanding of what impact this has across the entire county, because when you go.

G

To make a zoning change, a zoning tax change um county learned this about 20 years ago, 15 years.

G

Ago, when they changed sort of in the knee-jerk reaction from the bl to the bnr district, it had.

G

Wide-Ranging implications and it wasn't really vetted prior to that change being occur. You.

G

Know being made and had big implications so that I think would be on on a on a stat. You.

G

Know sort of a staff level, those those would be the two concerns, so this is something we.

E

Need to bring up change to the farm alcohol production portion of the solution of this.

E

Day at a later date, yeah I'd be willing to yeah. That I mean it won't, be us so well yeah, maybe.

H

I just thought I'd shut up because you won't have time to do that with us sitting here right.

D

Man, I'd be hurt on that, commissioner austin. Well, that's up to us. Yeah I mean. Is there an issue for.

A

You know, I guess, would it be a legal question? Yes, why don't you take that mic over there.

A

This way you could be heard yeah. I normally sit down here. Yeah.

I

Just very briefly, this is an 11th hour proposal. There's no question about that.

I

But I don't think it's as significant as what it's been expressed here under the law. That's.

I

Already in place, that's been advertised and discussed or not discussed uh during this.

I

Study period, uh the setbacks for this type of use, 200 feet front side back, would be the same.

I

The winery distillery, whatever the use is the farm. Alcohol production is open to the public for tours.

I

And tasting it is allowed food service already that's complementary to the actual farm, alcohol.

I

Producer, it allows events with temporary zoning certificates and it also provides for catering.

I

Of private events like banquets, weddings and reunions, as I think you've heard so this is a.

I

Sort of a a twist on that that would allow a restaurant, and I think I left my language.

I

um That would allow a little bit more granted, but conceptually very similar, I'm here, because.

I

We represent the cold saturday farm and we're very close to developing this as a farm, alcohol.

I

Producing the site plan is almost ready to go, but this would not apply generally in the agric.

I

Conservations, I would only apply to agriculture, alcohol farm producers and what it what it says.

I

What the proposal is is a reservation. Only dine-in restaurant with a seating area not.

I

To exceed the combined square footage of the farm, alcohol production, storage and retail.

I

Areas which incorporates existing agriculture or historical structures on the grounds subject to.

I

Integrated site plan approval with the main farm, alcohol producer facilities and bulk requirements.

I

Otherwise, applicable to the farm alcohol producer use. So it's it's a it's a it's a twist on. What's.

I

There, but it is a little bit more, but we don't think we're asking for that. Much and I know.

I

The beans would be more than happy to explain their vision for the farm if you're interested.

I

In hearing that so now also state your name, john mcguire, okay, thanks john, it sounds like it's a.

A

One-Off, like we said from the air conservation, you know, and you should be discussed at a later.

A

Date from what was just shared, um so I'm yeah, I'm concerned. I know I don't believe we should.

A

Be addressing this issue with what would be addressing now the way it was described. I.

A

Think it was one off of what was described in the agricultural conservation, um as you recommended.

D

Yeah, I'm concerned that we're not hearing from the rest.

D

That would be well that too yeah that would that this would affect, and and I'm going to.

D

Be brutally honest: we've got a couple of these right now that have already done this. That are.

D

Against our zoning that that we're going to be- or we are we're addressing, I'm not getting into all.

I

That but but um those folks are probably going to want to be heard too, I just I appreciate the fact.

D

That there are folks that are forward-minding thinking, and I am in no way talking against.

D

The alcohol, the farm alcohol industry- because I think it's great it's allowed- it's allowed.

D

uh Those who can't do anything with the farm, the typical thing for the.

D

Standard thing, with a farm to keep the farm, which is which is vitally important here,.

D

But what I am opposed to is now creating uh these pop-up restaurants that are rapidly.

D

That attorneys are rapidly finding ways to throw into the mix because of we're going to twist. It.

D

Just a little bit, and that is what I'm opposed to and that's what a lot of the citizens that live in.

D

These surrounding areas are opposed to, because I don't care if you do reservation or not with.

D

It comes traffic parking noise, all the things that we've been been messing with over the last.

D

Well, for me, it's been eight years, but specifically in the last year, it's upticked because we are.

D

Seeing these facilities and they're put they're just twisted in there, because, oh you can do that.

D

Because I think it says this, we need to fix that, or the next board needs to fix that to stop that.

D

Well, it says this, but I think it means this, so I, while I get it and while I support it it I.

D

Think it needs to be a broader look and allow for more folks to come in and comment on it because.

D

It's going down a slippery slope that I don't think this county needs to be going down into.

A

I I agree, I mean uh so that's right. No, it's uh and I do appreciate the comments that were made.

A

um And like you, it's not that I disagree with moving forward. I think, though, there's a.

A

A different time and place for this to be discussed than addressing it here. You know.

A

The comments have been made. We are now moving forward. This is almost a one-off but a a different.

A

Opportunity for carroll county that should be addressed later um so yeah. I I appreciate the.

I

Chance to be able to absolutely I thank you for that, yeah yeah, so it's nothing negative. No! It's.

D

Not negative, I might even listen in on that one, because I think it's important yeah yeah.

D

um You know, I think, it's more specific for bag for that alcohol or whatever producing portion of.

D

This to get it right to get it right, instead of just kind of willy-nilly throwing it in.

D

There and getting it to the point where you know you have somebody say well, you know I.

H

Think it says this: doesn't it say this yeah? I think it if you change that one.

D

Word, I think it means this, so I think staying on top of this, I know you will.

A

um Let's get it right and serve the community better with this, just not during this time, but.

A

Yeah, this is a positive thing, not a negative. So, okay, okay, all right! Thank you! So that's all.

B

We have for all the various comments so with that I think we're gonna go now move on to.

B

um The agriculture remaining portion presentation uh just to refresh your memory regarding that.

A

um For you, we could all lay down.

D

It's only for seven days there you go yeah, you're right. It's right. There.

A

Hey that's a good shot.

A

B

B

Wait all right.

B

Yeah I'd like to see it, um we have it in our books, you do have it in.

C

Your books, so if you want to look at it that way until we get this.

C

C

um I guess I'll start with it just from your books and if we can resolve this it'll be on the.

C

Screen I apologize good idea. Okay, um so you see this is the cover page. This is just you've seen.

C

Almost all these slides, it's several different meetings, but this is just a review because it's.

C

Been since the 20 seconds, um what is an egg remaining portion? And this obviously you know.

C

This, but this term refers to property that has been subdivided. It hasn't. I've been corrected.

C

On this, by laura mataison hasn't necessarily already used all of its residential development.

C

Rights, but it doesn't have any more it. They may still be able to build some that have been.

C

Identified so when you have the egg remaining portion, in addition to that, one residential.

C

Unit that you can still build on it, you could also do anything. That's allowed okay, district teacher.

C

Which is establishments schools, daycare, veterinary clinics contractors, equipment, storage, commercial.

C

Panels, nursing homes and there's various other recreational and commercial and institutional uses.

C

So when this property, or when this issue was considered, we looked into how many of these.

C

Are ag remaining portions are being used in this way and we were a little surprised to find out.

C

That not many um there's 1017 remaining portions in the county, um the ones that are being used.

C

For non-residential uses is 16, which is 1.57 percent and a similar metric for the acreage.

C

If you do it by acreage, it's a number. So as far as the magnitude of this problem- and I think the.

C

Graph illustrates it, it is not a huge problem, but there have been times it has been a problem.

C

And mary, I mean I've been saying it a few times you understand. My biggest concern is that ag.

A

Remainders within the designated growth areas be addressed differently than ag remainers for.

A

The entirety to the county, because the designated growth areas are designed to do just that to grow.

H

And although they were zoned one way at one point, the environment changes- and you know where are.

A

We going to be pulling our revenue from is from the designated growth areas, so we should give as.

A

Much opportunity for them to grow, you know and and we're not talking a lot. But there are some.

A

um And whether we say all or a minimum size within the disney growth areas, as opposed to one-off, I I.

A

Still think that that needs to be addressed when we're talking about this, what are your thoughts.

B

Addressed in what way that we allow for ag remainders and designated growth areas to include.

A

Residential so they've already taken off the residential rights, so changing the ag remainder.

B

Doesn't change that then you're, fundamentally changing what the ag remaining portion is that.

B

Would really be more of a zoning chain, it would be a reasoning, a zoning text correct. No, you actually.

G

Have to rezone the property which is, but why can't we put it in the entirety into the chapter.

A

And make it more black and white saying that this is a permissible use.

A

In ag remainders within design growth areas, they need to be changed from ag. Remainders.

E

To residential information, it's non-zoned agreement, it's not it's, not a! It's still. Zoned ag.

B

The ag remainder is just the leftover land right. It's more of a development review.

G

Also in the um plot and the record plot, it says this: is it you're done right? So so that's a.

B

Separate legal document from anything zoning wise and I don't want to interpret the law so jim if.

B

You ever want to jump in with that, but that you we cannot change would have to be changes. You'd.

B

Have to rezone that property? Can we make it easier for properties within the designated growth areas.

A

To be rezoned, you cannot because maryland law gives you two ways to do it: change them change.

B

Your mistake or comprehensive rezoning so and we are going. We are beginning a comprehensive.

G

Rezoning process and that's coming up the master process that you know: oh yeah, that's, okay, so that.

B

That would be the way the other concern is tip's not coming up. [music] Well, there's two definitions.

A

Of short time and long time, there's a short time in government or a long time, because the.

A

Master plan- I just want to be careful because we keep saying it's coming up and everybody. I.

D

Had somebody say, are you doing that next year because that's like coming up yeah, it's right.

D

2025 or 2026. 2025 is when we're going to kick off that actual general development plan. Unfortunately,.

A

We're doing background work on it currently, okay. So how about this? um The study that we just.

A

um Put in place the team that we hired so it's for economic development yeah um is it could they have.

A

A look at this as well or they wouldn't that's on in the scope of the rfp.

A

Who we have, can we adjust the scope within the rfp, because I know this company also does.

A

um Planning land planning they do, but this is completely residential. So so my suggestion would.

B

Be when we get to the housing portion to have that discussion? The other missing piece- and I.

B

Hear what you're saying is infrastructure, so agriculture remaining portions are on land.

B

That was owned ag right then that was their own ag, does not have the infrastructure to.

B

Support the additional development. No, I know that part, I'm that's regardless. It's.

A

The property I'm looking at, not necessarily the infrastructure itself. Well, here's why.

B

It's important because in maryland under septic bill 236 you get seven lots period so.

B

Unless you have infrastructure and they've already taken their seven doesn't matter what we do, we.

B

Could have our 7500 zoning if they don't have the infrastructure, they can't get more than seven.

B

And, depending on when this property became an agreementing portion, they may have already taken.

B

Their seven already so it wouldn't the state laws, state law would prohibit it, and so there's just it.

B

That is, that is the. That is the challenge that we need to figure out, which is not a.

B

Simple change for just a text amendment: it would have to be a much broader, comprehensive process.

B

I'm sorry, I'm not trying to make it be difficult person. How is over? No I'm focused well okay and isn't that yeah against really the original intent.

D

Of what we were attempting, what we were trying to do here in this county with our ag.

D

Preservation or whatever yeah that doesn't those dogs go against that because that's.

D

That really wasn't the intent. I don't think originally you're right when we were sitting.

D

Around the table, somebody didn't say: well, you know, maybe in 50 years we'll want to build some.

D

More houses, if they're in dgas. Well, I don't even think that was that's, not the intent of.

D

This, the intent of this is to keep us where we are right. I mean that's, why I'm so passionate.

D

About making sure we get this right, because I truly believe that that there are people pushing.

D

Pushing the the envelope hands of the clock here in a place that we don't want it to be.

G

More development in agriculture- I agree- I mean I I no. I I really put this program into place.

D

It's almost like the forefathers who are probably rolling around your graves now, because everybody's.

D

In everybody's, looking into all these things- and they read it differently- I mean you know that.

D

Everybody has their own take on the constitution and all that you know well, that's not what it says.

D

Because I'm a scholar, okay, whatever, um but that's why I want to get this right because.

D

We have the opportunity now to get this right and protect what the folks before us put into place.

D

Here for carol yeah, so while I agree with the dga stuff, I agree with you, but the other thing is.

D

That you have to remember if we get into that area, somebody's going to have to come up with some coin.

D

Here, because you're going to put infrastructure in place. Well, that's one of the reasons why, if I may.

G

um And correct me: if I'm wrong, linda during the freedom plan um conversation the one of.

G

The original proposals was to make several of those um larger egg properties out towards a.

G

Western port right of the designated growth area, to change them to what was it called.

G

Very low density, or something residential um and you're, exactly that was one of the premises, was to.

B

Remove the agricultural zoning and make it either conservation- that was some type of environmentally.

B

Sensitive piece or very low density residential because that's how a lot of the ag has developed.

B

In the designated growth area, more so than other areas so, and that was intentionally, if I may just.

G

Finish that intentionally removed from ford um when the um when the plan was adopted in 2018.

G

Yes correct this, um you know this is important. Conversation definitely and um the intent of.

A

Ag preservation within carroll county is to meet the goal you know set in 1980 of 100.

A

000 acres, the intent is really to get as much agricultural remainder as possible.

A

Agricultural preserve in carroll county. That's the overall intent, the target's hundreds of thousand.

A

Within the disney growth areas, the intent is to grow appropriately without overgrowing in the.

A

Disney growth areas, but you know, and it's a balance between the design growth areas.

A

In the entire county, so looking at the ag remainders within the designated growth areas in a.

A

Different way, I think, adds value, and we should do that- maybe not right now in this, but we should do.

A

That and then the other part is in additional growth areas. We don't have and preserved.

A

Properties, we have very little, you have some very very little. um Is there? Is there potential.

A

For ag preserve properties in the designated growth areas, for them to take advantage of.

A

um Ag preservation in the designated growth areas, they could that's a board of commissioners sort of.

G

Rule there's no, that there's not right that they traditionally boards have not allowed ag press in.

G

Dgas, but that is a board rule. That's not state law, that's nothing! You know we, the tomorrow the board.

G

Could decide yep, that's perfectly appropriate. We don't think there's very little state law that.

A

Tells us what we can and cannot do I mean this is our decisions and and the reason I'm doing.

A

This is because a lot of the conversation in the folks in the designate growth areas.

A

Rightly so can be frustrated in paying taxes in carroll county that are preserving agriculture.

A

In carroll, county elsewhere, in elsewhere, and especially down in the southern part of the county,.

A

Is there's like why are we paying additional taxes when we're giving tax relief for a large.

A

Parcel of property- you know, okay, and the answer is to make carroll county culturally, beautiful and.

A

Preserve it well that's great, but they rather have a park or something so if they can. If we.

A

Can figure out how to balance this, um and I think, setting the stage, I'm gonna say before the others.

A

Come in but set the stage not necessarily to make that decision, but to set the stage because again.

A

Just my last thought is the the attitude that this county is relying on the state for any of this.

A

Stuff is zero and that's got to be very clear and this county decisions are reliant on the community.

A

And the citizens of carroll county, and so when I have these town halls and people are frustrated.

A

Why am I paying taxes to preserve property up in the north? I say I understand, I see your voice.

E

Right, I know yeah.

E

Put that into a reservation program, no, they can't well. We don't allow them to. We traditionally have.

G

Not yeah right, although there is egg press in in um and I'm not sure when that was put.

H

In place at least one, so I think it's met, which is kind of like a donated, so you're.

B

Kind of out of that anyway, yeah yeah, that's maryland, land trust yeah. Oh that's! Even a.

A

Maryland land trip- that's not even us, I don't know, but I think unfortunately, commissioner,.

G

I'm going to follow through with linda's. I think that time. This is not the appropriate.

G

Process to change the um the way to change the way, those properties that are in that in.

G

The freedom area to allow more development that that process is is a different process. I don't.

A

Disagree but being a work session. This is no no! No, but no, I don't. I definitely don't.

A

Disagree: uh okay, so, instead of the butt, however, semicolon, however, comma being a work session,.

A

uh It gives us the opportunity to have this conversation period. Therefore comma. We should.

A

Continue having it until it's done, grammar is very important to me. Remember it's very.

H

Important here, regardless of anything anybody says so, let's utilize this time best, okay, you're, fired.

G

Of the comedy of errors, use the time wisely and discuss the importance of.

A

Focusing on ag preservation and opportunities.

A

In the designated growth areas- and we can come up with uh an idea of how many properties are.

A

We really talking about that, it would even be eligible, um you know, is the uh juice worth the.

A

Squeeze in other words, but if somebody's paying taxes and they are not eligible in a community.

A

They are very frustrated, you know just like we pay taxes and we see a lot of money going into.

A

The city and we're like well wait a second. You know it's very frustrating at the state level.

E

S, oh of course, right. The flip sides well wait a minute, but that's all fee based so.

G

Well, maintaining we've been subsidizing that quite a bit over the years. No, no, no! No! No! No.

G

No, no, it's an enterprise fund, but when we didn't move the uh fee up to what it actually cost us.

J

We were subsidizing that with the rest of the county, taxpayers and that's been done.

J

For years, but now it's finally getting caught up and it is yeah. But I remember in the past.

J

Where it should have been a, I don't know, let's say eight percent raise or we raise.

J

It four percent right- eight percent- would have covered everything, but we didn't do it.

J

Yeah, it was gently plugged, but now we we've right sized. Yes, we've definitely.

H

We did that and we increased the fees which really frustrated a lot of folks, because.

D

Technically, that's what people yeah.

A

Budget conversations for another day, yeah, let's move on, but but I think.

G

um Solid waste would have been a better example yeah. uh I I I do believe having this conversation.

A

Irregardless of what commissioner wentz wear- and I was really interrupted uh said.

A

um That we have this conversation um on ag preservation within the entire county. Well,.

G

Certainly, and that's something the board um could do, I mean if the board is willing.

G

To entertain ag press in designated growth areas, then then staff can certainly bring.

G

Those properties, if their property owner is interested to the board. I mean that's as they.

G

Say that's just a board sort of uh it might be many. No. I can't think it would be many at all.

A

um Yeah I mean, since the county only has one designated growth area, and I understand so many.

H

It may not be the right answer, meet the criteria I mean you. Can the next board can look into it. Yeah.

J

Because I don't like the idea as it stands right now, I don't have all the information on it right.

J

But I don't like the idea yeah and, like I said it, it may not be the right answer. It may not be like.

A

I said the jews were to squeeze, but just like any other, you know putting revenue on the table.

A

Or expenses, because this is additional expenses, if we do this, we're taking, you know, revenue and.

A

Putting it into additional expenses which, where it's not going to go somewhere else, you know.

A

Budget 101, so we either bring up more revenue or lessen the expenses. But what's fair up in.

A

And I've said this off and what's fair up in the north to tiny town wherever up, you know.

A

Beautiful communities in the north is fair in the south, and you know opportunities should.

A

Liken themselves: that's why charles carroll was so important to me is that I want that community.

A

To have the facilities that other communities have so yeah just take a look at it, and uh chris.

A

You're going to have the lead on this one, so I'm glad you're in here: okay, okay! So um today's.

J

Conversation, where are they located at remaining portion map actually on the one before I'm sorry,.

H

I thought we had a few examples, but that's fine anyway. So there's examples. There's three schools.

C

In daycare five religious establishments, five assisted livings um on this right.

C

um You can see the range of acreages so that pretty much.

C

Tells you what is included in the airport is actually.

C

What's the recreational use again.

C

Those two that have been identified this would be outdoor recreational uses. Those I think it's the I.

B

Think it might be that carol, um south carroll, okay, that's one of them! um No! That's actual ag zoning.

C

Unfortunately, the next page firearms facility- oh, is it uh pep baker? No that's county own land. um I.

B

Think it's at south carroll firearms facility in this one: oh okay, okay, yes correct! I got it.

C

Okay, so it's just the map on the next page just shows they are pretty much scattered throughout.

C

The county right um any pattern really there. um I think the next slide like this is probably.

C

um Important to pay some attention to, as you can see, the anchor classes go up to over 90.

C

45 of all the remaining portions are less than 20 acres and 82 are less than 40 acres. So if.

C

You're, looking at later on, we'll get to this any kind of tiered approach. That kind of tells you.

C

That puts that in perspective for you, so we may go back to that's life. There.

C

Is an uptick in applications on there with jp in this group, yeah.

E

We're getting a lot of people hearing about this coming in now, so that's not a bad thing.

E

Either no I mean it's well, the the key there is that it um uh butts up against.

A

Already existing preserved property and it's kind of filling in those donut holes, as he would say,.

A

um So yeah I we'll get there. It's just going to be a little bit at a time, but how many of.

D

Those knew about this, um a lot of them. I would hope. That's why they're coming.

E

Okay, is there a way to market it, or should we be marketing it more? I mean.

A

Especially voluntary, but so I I attend, uh which actually I enjoy attending, is the egg board.

A

um Where they could talk 30 minutes about a five minute subject, not kidding anybody listening.

A

I do appreciate, but this may be something to bring to their attention and just say: hey get.

A

The word out, you know um this is a pretty good. Jp did do a very nice um presentation at um what.

G

Was that it was an egg dinner, it's a land trust was it yes, yeah. You did a very nice presentation.

A

Yeah but they can talk to other people. I don't know.

A

I'm just looking at other ways to get it out there. So, okay, okay, it went to public hearing and that's.

C

This paper, um because it's not on the screen I'll, read it further development of the remaining.

C

Portion for purposes other than agriculture, agricultural or residential, as allowed by.

C

15807101 and I've added this since under the agricultural land use category, because the.

C

Few of the attorneys said there was confusion on what was being included as an agricultural.

C

Use so I added under the agricultural land use community and that is spelled out very clearly.

C

In the news table shall be limited to one use for each remaining portion with no further subdivision.

C

Of the remaining portion allowed for the purposes of this subsection, a: u shall be considered a.

C

Single building, as defined in 158002 or area of use for outdoor uses- and this was important.

C

Because some of the uses, for instance, a religious establishment, may have multiple buildings because.

H

It has some accessible non-accessory buildings, but even multiple buildings that are part of it.

C

Or even assisted living would be one, but depending on the size of the egg remainder, you should find.

C

Buildings yeah, so is this some like the uh the driving range. uh The golf course that church well.

D

Yeah, there's a driving range and a church, that's a bad example, but yeah. What's that called.

D

um Island, green island, green, green and there's there's that and that church jehovah's witnesses.

D

Got on there, then the school got on there and then restaurant and residential all in.

A

That area yeah well all in that property remainder that kept coming back right.

E

What it was was rural uh commercialization of.

A

The area, rural commercialization of the area, that's what it mounted wow, that's good phrase.

G

Well, it's not really a loophole. It's what the zoning allowed. I mean yeah, it's what.

D

They found that they could do yeah, uh how it's become a potential concern.

D

Well, it's not potential, it's a concern.

D

So this is the proposed language. That's what went to public hearing. That's what.

D

People, with the exception of like clarified a little bit of the language in response to the.

C

Attorney's concern, but that's basically, okay and I apologize for not I've missed a couple of these.

D

Work sessions, but I watched most of it anyway. um What happens to those that we just spoke about is.

D

There a grandfathering procedure that uh that you all have identified, or what do we do about those.

D

Few and there's a few I can think of two right now uh that have not that have done this already.

D

Against the language, what would happen to those they would just continue anybody who's.

C

Already, even in the process they've submitted something today they would.

C

Be allowed to continue okay, so everybody should be sort of an unconditional type.

C

Thing yeah: it's not it's not yeah, it's not that it would not be effective right I mean okay. Would it would.

A

It be non-conforming, just like uh residential house in a commercial area like on thursday.

C

Because this language, that I just discussed is in 150 subdivision it's in the subdivision chapter.

C

As well how to develop it's, not what uses are allowed so, okay, because they're all allowable.

B

Uses in the zoning code, so yeah, okay, thanks! Thank you. Well, since you said it's correct.

A

We're done, it's got the legally, so I just so, are they non-conforming? No, obviously, nothing they're.

D

Just unconforming non-conforming is irrelevant to this conversation. Yes, because it's not a use under.

D

158., okay, god that's what you said: barry okay, okay, well same thing, all right, but also the uses are.

B

Allowed under 158. right, all of the remaining portion uses are allowed under 158. So there's.

B

Nothing that's not allowed on these portions that aren't allowed in the ag zone and not to.

C

Muddy it up, but if you disallowed one of them, then they would be correct because it's the use.

C

It it's the use, not the it's, not the development method procedure, okay, and what you're suggesting.

G

Changing is the development procedure got it. Okay, thank you. So then, on the next slide, I'm summarized.

C

As commissioner rosting had asked earlier, comments received really just kind of some some.

C

Arguments which was most of what you hear heard and then for support arguments.

C

um So in opposition, the ability to develop remaining portions were part of changes to.

C

The ag district density changes in the late 70s. It was argued that this was yes.

C

um That property owners depend on the value of the remaining portions.

C

They've known, they have them so they're, depending on that value, when they've calculated it the worth of their property schools, churches.

C

Etc um are of value to the rural community. All remaining portions are not the same and should.

C

Not be treated the same, and I think that was more in regard to the looking at the differences.

C

In sizes, because we we saw that variation in sizes, there's some that are very large.

A

That schools, churches etc was etc. It means any other institutional uses that are allowed. So it's.

C

Not a vague term, I just didn't spell it all out. It's it's! What we talked about the nursing homes.

C

um And then in support um of the change, not not the current but of the change is that the original.

C

Intent was to allow ag related and supportive commercial uses. It was never the intent in the.

C

Late 70s to let this go to where it's gone now um necessary. County services, fire ems and roads are.

C

Easier to administrate administering growth areas, rezoning of property in growth areas.

C

Is preferable to this and commercial uses make up? I'm sorry make the egg preschool.

C

Difficult, so those arguments were presented for why we should be limiting um uses of.

B

And just so you know, so we did a survey and I think we talked about this sorry.

B

um Okay, so anyway, we so we surveyed other jurisdictions.

B

um On september, 6th following this discussion, and how does your county handle agriculture remain.

B

Important portions, once the residential density has been used so through maryland, association.

B

Of counties I put out a questionnaire to all the planning director affiliates um and basically, what.

B

We got back was that kent county, queen anne's and cecil, have no limit on the allowable uses.

B

um We did talk to howard, county and they're just unique because they don't really have a true ag.

B

Zone in howard county, so they handle things much differently and then counties that are pretty.

B

Strict um uh the counties below allow no further development, harford and prince george's county.

B

um I will say we even talked to um worcester county and they're, very restrictive. You get.

B

Five, no matter what that five is, the five could be five residences: five businesses, just five.

B

Subdivision and that's all they do so they. It spreads the gamut of extremely permissive to.

B

Very restrictive, so there is no one-size-fits all there is no best practice. It really varies.

B

County by county is our whole point in doing that research, because that was part of our discussion. I.

A

Mean can queen dan's, they do a lot of great things for canton queen hands, but to compare us to them.

A

um What about uh frederick and washington do we hear back from those counties and some of.

B

Them that we heard yeah, it would have been interesting, yeah yeah, that's what they did.

C

But it wasn't anything we could apply baltimore county. No, we did not awesome, but basically there.

B

Is no one-size-fits all it is whatever approach you feel is best for your jurisdiction. hmm Okay,.

C

um The next slide are three options for consideration. You may have more.

C

um But this is just trying to focus the discussion so again you could make no changes to the current.

C

Code that egg remaining portions can be developed with an unlimited number of other commercial and.

C

Institutional uses, as allowed in the act district, that's what we currently have or as proposed in.

C

The draft that went to public hearing, which is agreement portions, may be developed with only.

C

One, commercial or institutional use that's allowed in the ag district or what was briefly considered.

C

Here, which was a tiered approach, um the number of commercial and institutional uses is limited.

C

By the acreage and what was talked about was 0 to 20 acres, you would get one additional use 20 to.

C

40, you would get two and more than 40 you get three frederick county. Did the jared approach.

E

Is that correct? No, we didn't, I think you all kind of came up with that yeah one of the work.

C

Sessions when we were talking about this, we did not see the tiered approach anywhere but being.

C

That there's so many different sizes of these. Well, what allowed to address some of the concern.

C

About they're not all the same, and they should know what about frederick to all of a sudden.

E

To go crazy with development, and that's all pre-planned, it was all on infrastructure.

B

It's their growth area, so this is a completely different animal. I mean I don't even wanna it's.

B

A totally different process, totally different plan- I mean I don't want to see. What's happened.

E

Up there happening here, this would not do that, because this is, you know that is their growth.

B

They have infrastructure, it's their south carolina. All the south county is part of their master plan.

C

70 corridors yeah. I like the the third approach to tiered approach. I think that makes sense.

J

If you have a small remainder 0 to 20 acres, one additional use.

J

Over well, you see it. I have to reconnect to you, but you see, I just think that makes more sense.

H

Good, who came up with that? I think I think I might.

B

Have and there's no scientific rationale behind it. Just looking at the the composition of what we.

B

Have the various breakdowns, what the ag zoning is the ag zone currently for residential is one per.

B

20., typically, I mean yeah, there's some nuance to that, so that that's where I came up with the one.

B

Per 20 kind of following along with with the current residential. So if we said zero to ten.

D

It wouldn't apply hardly anywhere. No, it would have played a 45 yeah 45 yeah back to the chart.

H

So it'll apply to the agree, meaning portions by acreage applied to 460 some odd properties right.

D

Okay, because I like trying to reach the happy medium, even though, um which is why I made the.

D

Comment about 45 minutes ago, anyone really heard from attorneys. I mean we heard from a couple.

D

Other folks, but you know it's, it was attorneys that walked in the door, because it's sort of.

D

Throws it throws a flag and then there there.

D

They don't have much to do then. Yes, I guess I mean let's, let's be blunt. Well, that's what.

A

I've been saying all along, but I do like this because it does reach a happy medium. A little.

D

Bit especially for those that perhaps still don't know that this has happened, which there's probably.

D

Something out there I can't imagine, but whatever whatever, um but I'm not sure I like the acreage.

D

Okay, but I do like the tiered approach, I show you dennis because I again, I think that that gives.

D

The opportunity for those that are maybe in a bad place and need to do something, but he had it yeah.

D

If we limit the acreage, but if you made the acreage smaller.

G

I think you'd be going in the wrong direction from where you want to go, because then they'd.

G

Have more uses right, yeah right, I think so right, yeah well you're, regardless of.

A

It so if we utilize this situation, you're all just killing me today. What you're saying is.

D

I think I've done that a couple times.

G

That's why we're all here to help? So I think if you look at the chart of how many partials are.

J

In each one of these acreage things, this is a good compromise, not the best one nope. This fight is by.

B

Going to 20. get my algorithms, no, no so later on out. So what's the original intent of this.

E

Of what the agreement we're going against that we're exactly well, if we're going, if we're going.

J

With it, how does it go against it? Well, I don't know what do you mean? It goes against it. Well,.

E

The original intent was, you know, you've taken your lots or whatever off, and that is now what's left.

E

Is the remainder right and you still have another something else you can do without remainder and.

E

There so that's giving you two options now you want to break it down even further to give up.

E

To three different things, but right now we're right back where we were no but right, but right.

J

Now you can have as many different options on the aggravator as you as you can fit into the.

J

Property this limits that yeah we're trying to fix what level three is, I don't think three's a.

J

Lot on anything, it's over 40 acres, how how many acres is the island green area? I know it's not.

B

The whole area, but you know what I mean I don't know, no, no idea, okay, just because, just because.

J

Of all the different things they have there to be good, I would guesstimate that's borderline.

D

40., what do you think it was 43.5 yeah? We can look that up. I don't have mine yeah.

F

D

Like a lot of things in this room,.

H

Is not an aggregor, that's just an ag property so so again, island green's not an agreement.

B

Again, okay, remember: these are allowed an ag, so any eggs only can have any of this. You can't.

B

Distinguish by visually saying ag remainder add parcel, because the uses are the same. It's just.

B

The development that they've taken their houses, if they hadn't taken their houses, they could do.

B

That right anywhere anywhere yeah right yeah. I understand that yeah, okay, I'm just making it.

B

Clear that it's not, I don't want to point that out yeah, you know bouncing off, I mean so you're, not.

B

Stopping this from happening on a gland in general right, my concern is um right: are we taking away.

A

Opportunities for properties to be put into ag preservation in anything we're doing here.

A

And to me, like, I think what commissioner weaver was concerned about was that cheered approach.

A

Is taking away more opportunities for properties to be put into act preservation? So it's counter.

A

To the goal we're going against there's so many factors that go into ag pres. First of all, it's.

B

Voluntary, so maybe they would or would not want to come in, it has to do with soils has to do with.

B

Acreage size over 50 acres is what we take into ag press, typically less than that we don't take.

B

Unless it's contiguous well, it's contiguous unless it's continuous and we are in a position where we.

A

Are three quarters through our goal and with 47 46 to 47 000 acres left to get 24 000 acres out of it.

A

Is becoming harder and harder to reach that that end state, so my concern is if this is counter to.

A

That that's a concern um I think any development's counter to any preservation. I don't want to cut.

J

You off, I don't want to enforce these people. Okay, you don't no longer have this choice so now.

J

Aggress is there any way you can go? I don't force people to do stuff like that. I think they should.

J

Still have a choice, because this is something you want to do. I think this tiered approach gives them.

J

A choice and they have plus it spills it out a little clearer about how many they can have. I just.

J

I think, if you've limited to one per use per no matter what how big the property is. I understand.

J

But it, but no matter how big the property is. You get one additional thing. I understand.

J

I I I I just it shouldn't all be treated the same agricultural businesses in these in these areas.

E

Of rural need at that point, and that is what it would cover.

E

What we're doing here is opening up. I, I think, going back to what you said. People.

E

Testifying toward this, oh okay, we get three more uses on this. We've developed.

E

This and developing you're, looking at rural development a different way and that's why.

E

Yeah I get that too, but you really have to respect the fact again and that's probably.

D

Going back to contrary to what I would consider ing, because I hate to do that, you just have an.

A

Argument amongst yourself, I know I'm arguing and you're lost, maybe that it was put in place in.

D

What 1970-ish, whatever it was, yeah you know times have certainly changed since then, so we need to.

D

I think we need to take a viable approach of adjust and adapt according to the times.

D

To already gets back to where you want the county to look like right and once you lose it, it's gone.

E

Yeah, that's right so just two thoughts so well we're not abandoning ag prez well we're doing that.

A

We're not abandoning it, but we're we're allowing this property to be used in more ways now, by doing.

J

This not really you're restricting it. Now you were actually restricting how many ways it can be used.

J

According to how many acres it has according to what can be done right now, we're actually cutting.

J

Back on the number of things that can be used and exactly with the tiered approach yeah or with the.

G

Nut or with the one or with unless you leave it as it is currently written, currently written. It's.

G

Unlimited, so if I have a hundred acres in that size, yeah right that's allowed, whereas this would.

G

Restrict me in my hundred acres to three years and just just okay, also on the side note, you.

A

Know when we talked to uh big backyard, when you mentioned the size acreage where to come up with.

A

And you said: oh, it just came up for me now yeah. It came up from you through a lot of experience.

A

And a lot of work so don't get to the property, do not sell that short by any stretch and imagination.

A

um So I mean you got the full confidence and me, knowing you did this with your team to get us.

A

To where we are, but not just, I don't want that to be thrown yet. Thank you and again, it follows the.

B

Residential two, which is the one for 20 roughly right, but if the board wanted to restrict, I mean.

G

You could decide on two tiers rather than three and just allow two uses. If you want right now,.

C

18 percent, you can have three uses larger than right: acres.

A

Right, which is not, which is less than 20 percent,.

J

Should I talk to me your math for years I got this, you didn't have.

A

To take off your shoe or anything on that one, uh you should have been in your class.

A

But you're in a class by yourself, the areas of the county without.

E

Commercial industrial. I caught that it's you're developing a world, I'm listening.

B

So well, what is that all that we had to present on that? The final proposal? Well, just those three.

F

Okay, yeah- let's just have keep having this yeah discussion on this. um Yes, island, green.

F

The current property is 31 acres. Okay, I separated off three parcels that range from three acres to.

F

An acre right that, just okay, that would have been limited right. It's a better person, yeah.

H

But it would have been less than 40 acres so right for the one option. It.

J

Can be two right now it appears there are four and that's a good.

J

Visual because every I think everyone knows that area yeah so by the tears.

E

They would have one more use on that. No, no, no, no! No! No less. Two lots. No two lessons.

B

They can't come back and there's no two before they've already taken no.

B

No, no, no, no! No! No! No they're done they're done.

D

If the tyrion approach would have been in effect, when they were doing it and then but they've.

E

Already had before now those takes no, that's not aggravator anyway, yeah we're not talking well. I.

D

Only wanted to use that as an example if they would have been if the tiered approach would.

A

Have been in place right, they would have only been allowed too, as opposed to unlimited foreign.

D

Total doesn't matter residential or.

B

Say that one more time worcester county gives you five, no matter what residential commercial doesn't.

B

Matter what it is you get five subdivisions? No, but I'm just saying something: I'm not moving there. You.

B

Can do it that way so right now we're allowing the residential portion and then the additional.

B

Com, more commercial portion, as addition is it the wooster approach. If I may, I'm sorry.

G

Just so I understand I'm sorry, the worcester approach eliminates ag remainder, spacex clay.

G

You get you have ag land, I can either farm it or whatever or I can develop it. If I'm going to.

G

Develop it I get five, I can have five houses, five houses or I can have five businesses if.

G

I'm big enough. My house is two businesses: five churches, five different large lots.

E

To be subdivided again, no, you cannot that's it. You're done five subdivision you're done.

E

Three houses on this one.

B

You just subdivide it right. You get five, a good subdivision yeah, but then you're done that's it.

E

You have that there's no remaining portion, it's just you get five things, no yeah! No! You.

E

Divided that five different areas, you put three houses in each of those you.

B

Can't no, you know I put one house on each other yeah or one business or one whatever.

J

But it's not one of our proposals anyway, yeah no, but we're looking at this tiered approach here.

G

Let's, let's keep, that would be quite a difference for from what we I mean. I I I, although I think.

G

It's interesting. I think it would be nice to hear from the ag community before we go to personally.

G

Not that I have a dog in this pipe, but we have 100 acres down. I do my 100 acres, my hundred acre woods.

D

What, if you push the tier approach up.

D

And put 20 to 40.

G

One to 40. one to forty is one to 40. yeah, I'm helping. I wasn't in this class.

D

I know 82 percent one to 40 would be one and then more than 40 would be two.

D

And more than 40 would be two and did that. That would be a whole lot more limiting that is.

E

Almost two more yeah, yes, we have a fourth option, get the originals. Yes, yeah, that's true! Okay, so.

A

That's awesome, that's true! If you have over 40 acres, if you have, if oh you're right am I wrong.

D

No you're right but keep in mind, commissioner, if you, if it's just your ag land period, you.

G

Have that hundred acres of ag land, you can put all sorts of uses on there yeah right.

E

And there's where they remainder's become most of the well you're on.

E

Bca you understand this is where most of the issues come about in agreementers and what.

E

Can be done with all the issues come into there? I think it's pretty much spelled out.

E

And what's going to happen there much better, no they're, all the.

G

Same the uses on ag and ag remainders are 100 identical. It's just how and and at the moment.

G

And at the moment, there's absolutely no difference because, again my mythical hundred acres, I can put.

G

You know if, if, if it supports it, I could put seven houses. If there's no infrastructure, I can put a.

G

Church, a school a you know all those other things. A recreational facility on my ag lands a go-kart.

A

Facility a go-kart facility, you know [music] only if I did the seven houses. If I go commercial on on.

G

This property on my hundred acres. I can subdivide it as much as like. We were talking about that. One.

G

Unfortunately, island green property- that is not an ag remainder. It is egg they've already taken.

G

Four uses they could put more uses because it is ag land they can put more commercial.

G

What we would maybe most people would consider to be commercial right on there and no matter.

G

What you pass here, as is proposed that wouldn't wouldn't restrict that property owner's ability.

G

To continue to do that, everything you never took their residential office correct, it's not an ag.

G

Remainder, so that's why the interesting thing about the worcester county idea is but again I.

G

Don't know that we want to go down that path today is. Is that all you get to do is five things period.

H

Okay, well, I would say I like zero to four sizes. No, I, like the size, the sizes that are here right.

J

Now, because what we're doing right now, if we go to this, we're restricting what these people do.

J

Property right to these people that already have these ag remainders we're cutting down.

J

What they can actually use, I don't want to take too much away from them. I don't I like your idea.

J

But I don't want to take too much away from these people that already own these properties.

J

And, or maybe saying you know, we have this, we could do this with it. Okay, we're going to cut.

J

You down to three uses if it's over 40 acres or whatever, wherever they happen, to fall into.

J

I don't want to take too much away from them. They might be banking on that for for their future or.

J

For whatever I just don't think we should take that much away. I think this is a good compromise.

J

We are, we are restricting it we're cutting it back from what it was before, but they still depends.

J

On the size of property had some additional use for that property. That's why I like this.

D

It's a good argument, that's your! That's! The property rights look at.

D

It, which is a better way to look at it. I I agree with you on that yeah.

E

If you wanted your own property, I don't go that far. It could be texas unless they had.

J

100 acres, so 45 percent of the property owners will have one additional opportunity right.

A

um Up to 82 percent so another whatever that is 20 acres, 38 more 20 to 40 acres right, which is.

A

82 minus 45, that's higher math that was in my remedial class, is what 38? No it's not 30., 37.

G

I don't know 38 37, yeah, 37, 37., 37 percent would be two okay and then 18 would be three.

A

You have 90 acres in here, you have in you want to follow steve's option here. We have two uses of it.

E

When they take those off say they want to build a school and a church on this ground. They still have.

E

70 acres now can they put that in that press yeah, yes, yeah as long as they meet other criteria, but.

E

I mean that now they're limited at that point yeah a lot. They have to meet all the criteria.

E

There but I'm, but I'm wondering um if they met you know other things they would be allowed to.

H

Yeah I like the argument about property owner rights.

E

I liked your argument about property owner rights. I mean it's yeah. I do too it's it's important, but.

J

At the moment, right we got us, we have, we have. That would be.

J

A comma, okay, whatever it would be, that would be a semicolon, but.

A

So that's like the uh isn't that is that, like the delaney property, your property's employment, wow.

A

Completely yes, okay, okay,.

A

The uh property next to landfill, northern landfill north end landfill. That's all industrial.

B

Commercial um yeah.

J

No, I'm just curious what it was: yeah commercial industrial index.

G

Okay, depending on what portion and then whatever you didn't resume.

B

With state agriculture, so it just kind of depends: it's a little mix, yeah, okay, okay,.

J

Are we gonna make all right? Are we looking to make a decision on this today? Are we sure.

J

What's our yeah, if you're, if we're ready to, I mean well thursday, you have thursday. I think.

B

What we were hoping for is a general consensus, and maybe if you wanted to take a vote on what.

B

You want to do with this. We actually have the legislation prepared. Thursday was the day for.

B

The complete voting on this unless you'd like to do that today compared either direction so.

A

It's is it on the agenda for thursday. Yes, okay got it, but I guess staff's. Looking.

G

For direction in favor, moving forward with the tiered approach that's presented here,.

A

That's one two, as opposed to one two: three. No I'm not! I like the puzzle here I'll, be.

J

Very frank I'll be open to either one, but I like this one better yeah.

D

A

Yeah, I agree um between now and thursday.

A

Or folks going to be calling in are they have any opportunity to have any conversation.

A

So it's really now between now and thursday, up to us correct. So if we're.

A

Ready to make a decision on this, or we can hang for two days inside the way.

J

Well, since it's on the agenda for thursday, why we make decisions on thursday? That's fine! It doesn't.

A

Matter to me, you don't have a lot of stuff written up right. Well, I do have three it's right here.

B

So right, so I guess what we would be asking first direction on this particular.

B

Piece of this, the entire vote on 155 and 158 revisions are that will happen on thursday and.

B

We would then have the appropriate legislation in front of you that reflects what your decision is.

B

For this today, so is there a motion for what should be considered here to be added into.

A

The entirety of 158., that's what you're asking! Actually it's 155.00, I thought. No, I said: okay.

J

um I'll make a motion that the tiered approach, as presented here, be added to 155.091.

D

I was second time.

A

Any further discussion on this.

A

Scene hearing none.

A

All in favor of the cheered approach with the three tiers with this, as.

A

Presented, which is the three tiers say: aye aye aye against okay, three two carries okay.

A

um Just your agreements at the resolution.

A

H

Okay, we'll decide. Please look, this was we first used it in 2019 and then last year,.

C

Basically, anybody that is in the process at all submitting any type of plan is grandfathered.

C

In if they come in for an amendment though, then they have to follow the new procedures.

J

Right, which makes sense we're not voting on this or anything right now,.

C

At the same time,.

C

And then the effective date we proversed, I believe, because that gives the zoning.

C

um Administrator time to get up to speed on any changes, the bza we're.

C

Going to present changes is that enough time or should be the calendar year.

A

I mean um it's up to you. Well, if we want to get it done, it has to be december 1st right. We don't.

B

Have it done anything? Well? No! No! We will get done the implementation. Okay right. Sorry, I just.

A

Want to make sure that they have the ability with the effective date chris. Do you think one december.

A

Okay, what's going on- and this is similar to.

A

Any implementation of changes, yeah yeah, right, yeah, okay, we've done the past eight years anyway,.

A

A lot of work culmination of a lot of work from not only staff but also the board and.

G

Implementing I mean honestly, this is one of I believe this may be the first time the county's.

G

Really ever followed through both with the comprehensive rezonings, as well as updating.

G

Our zoning text after a master plan process, so it's pretty much implemented um cool the major.

B

Items from the freedom plan and the county master plan and a complete code, 158 code review and.

B

Revision, an update, yeah yeah, so it's something to really be proud of. I think very much so.

A

That's all we did so we're done here today. Okay, any other comments or mary linda. No thank you.

A

Guys yeah, thank you. Do we need a motion to adjourn? We need a motion to adjourn so moved. Second, okay,.

A

And discussion all in favor aye against, I lost the first one I'll lose the second one. No [laughter].