Carroll County, MD Board of County Commissioners Open Sessions, 23 Feb 2022

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From YouTube: Board of Carroll County Commissioners Joint Meeting with Board of Education February 23, 2022

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https://www.carrollcountymd.gov

A

Okay good afternoon it is february 23rd, uh commissioner ed rossi, from district five. I.

B

Appreciate the opportunity to have this joint meeting with our board of education and ccps.

B

Leadership as always what I'd like to do before, we start well, one not wearing a jacket in respect to.

B

President uh kenny tyler she's wearing the exact same jacket. I thought I had, but that's okay, so I'm.

B

Not giving him any hardship, but that's okay. We are going to stand for the pledge of allegiance and I.

B

Am going to stay cool without wearing a jacket, then, let's take a moment of silence and reflect.

B

On those things you want to reflect on, but for me uh at most and especially this time for kenny.

B

May your mom always be her memories, a blessing to you and the family as you go through this time.

B

One: okay, under god, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

C

Just want to make a quick comment before we get started, it's hard to believe they.

C

Sold two of those jackets well, actually steve has one too so I was worried about.

B

That, I would imagine.

B

Okay, so again, I think we have a relatively uh strong agenda for um this afternoon and.

B

As always, we train to standard not necessarily to time, so we have scheduled uh from 4 pm to 5.

B

30 and when this is complete, this is complete not taking any shortcuts, but not prolonging you know a.

B

Meeting just to have a meeting, at least that's my view on on life, and uh if you hadn't seen my not.

B

Mine our opening comments during uh our state of the county, one of the things we highlighted from.

B

The podium- and I think all four of us highlighted from the podium, was the importance that education.

B

Is bringing to carroll county and the importance of partnership that we have between our board of.

B

Commissioners, our county carol, government, the ccps and the board of education, along with you, know,.

B

The community college and the career in tech, it's it's one team, one fight and uh I don't think that.

B

Was lost on any one of us as we we shared that um yesterday uh walking into the budget season.

B

In a relatively short period of time, with mr zaleski to my back right, ensuring that I don't.

B

See anything too stupid he'll give slap me I think, or at least virtually, but um we want to. We want.

B

To get things right so understanding your needs is going to be very important as we walk through this.

B

um With that again, those are kind of my opening salvo opening comments.

B

Mr president, do you have any uh opening comments you'd like to share not a lot just again um for.

D

At least the last three or four years, the two groups have had joint meetings and I think it's.

D

Giant, I think we need to keep doing it and uh while we may agree to disagree at times.

D

I think it's it's great and we need to do it and then- and just thank you for everybody being here.

D

Should we approve our two sets of minutes from the last two meetings before we get into the agenda.

B

We can do that, and uh I think it was on the left side of the folder. Is that where we were the.

B

January 21st minutes september 23rd minutes. If we can take a look at those two.

B

um Let's do them separately. Let's look at uh september 23rd for a minute.

B

And at any appropriate time, if there is a uh a motion, I'm glad somebody did strike.

B

Out rothschild and put rothstein that did not go unnoticed by me, so thank you. uh Wow.

E

Can push-ups will be had by those who miscommunicate isn't that right? There, commissioner.

B

Weaver just saying I'm going to move to approve these september 23rd meetings as amended.

B

Good answer: I have a motion. Do I have a second I'll second, and I do have another edit if I could.

E

Please, okay beside commissioner rothstein at the very beginning. We have mr herbert.

E

President of the board, so I would just like to acknowledge that it was miss herbert our president.

E

Of the board of education, it depends how she's identifying that- and I do appreciate that there.

B

Miss dorsey, so let's make that amendment. So I have a motion. I have a second with that amendment.

B

Any further discussion seen here, none all in favor unanimous now, let's look at january 21st minutes.

F

um I think we need to note that it should say 2022.. I think.

G

B

There's no comments. Do I hear a motion to approve the january 21st 2021 minutes so moved? Okay. I.

B

Got a motion: do I have a second? I got a motion, a second any discussion seen here. None all in favor.

B

Thank you very much, I'm sorry! I didn't jump in soon enough, yeah, davonchi's last name. It's mystery.

E

With the r.

B

Okay, thank you we'll make that correction thanks, matt.

B

So we got some of the logistics out of the way.

B

And improving the minutes, I appreciate that kenny. Any uh other comments you may have. No thank you.

D

Like you say, we got a long meeting, okay, um so the agenda was gone back and forth. I believe between.

B

Our boarding your board um in crafting this, and uh you know I think it's a it's- a mixed bag.

B

Throughout the agenda, so agreement on the partnership project between ccctc and cmc.

H

Good afternoon, commissioners board members, I'm happy to be here today, I'll kick off this first.

H

Agenda item: it's really just a highlight. We wanted to make sure we shared between our respective.

H

Boards certainly exemplifies one of many positive partnerships that happened here in carroll county.

H

In this case, the community media center has worked with our staff and students at the career.

H

Technology center to have the students design and build a pretty involved storage facility.

H

Out there at the community media center, it's a large facility that includes electricity.

H

Environmental controls, this project required a joint agreement between the board, the county.

H

And the cmc and when the joint meeting was initially scheduled back in early january.

H

We added this item. Thinking we'd be able to sign it at the meeting in the interim. Our legal counsel.

H

Staff have worked with the county on an agreement to formalize the effort and allow work to proceed.

H

We invited mr turner of the cmc to our board meeting in february the february 9th board meeting.

H

And recognized him, there is a great partner with us, and so just for your reference, um we have a.

H

Copy of the mou and your community packet and we're really excited to be a partner in this in.

H

This project, it showcases our students and their abilities and the manner in which we all work.

H

Together in carroll county for positive outcomes, so we wanted to sort of tap that down there.

H

We just want to sort of top that partnership. There's a lot going on.

H

Over in that neck of the woods when you drive by, and that will be a little bit more.

H

um So we're uh so really excited about that. Stop there.

I

The way I understand it, the county owns the property, the building cmc, and it's right next to.

I

The tech center, so okay, okay, a great experience for our students- and I know the cmc- uh is also.

B

Doing uh the sports as of last couple years and uh they did the county wrestling tournament, uh so.

B

They were very proud. I know. uh uh Stoutzer stotzer was uh now part of that team over there, so he was.

B

Pretty jazzed about doing the county tournament uh over at westminster, so good stuff.

B

Anything else on this uh partnership is there: uh are there decision, points or a timeline associated.

B

With this john, you know what the exact timeline is for that I believe they'll be prepared to move.

J

Forward this this spring semester and begin the design and then the work over a period.

J

Of time so right away, which was kind of the urgency of bringing it in this, is a no-brainer.

B

What do you need from us? We don't need anything from you. We just wanted to sort of.

H

Like we said sort of that good news, it's a great partnership opportunity.

H

Yeah, it is that's even better news. Okay, and it is your property right.

K

Normally we hear money schedule of uh schedule of future capital renovations.

H

I'd be happy to kick that one off as well. I know the commissioners expressed the desire to have.

H

Some deeper understanding of the sequence of schools that are prioritized for modernization.

H

In the system, so in the in the meeting packet, we've included a section from our current.

H

Educational facilities master plan, we love our acronyms, so we call that the efmp.

H

As well, that's the official facilities planning tool that we're required.

H

Every year to adopt in june- and this is the document that drives our capital improvement.

H

Plan request to you all and to the state every year, so in the document I'll refer to pages 25.

H

And 26, which discuss modernization priorities, page 26, has the list of prioritized schools for the.

H

10-Year window of the facility's master plan that prioritization does adjust some over time, but it's.

H

Determined by a combined physical and functional assessment facility condition index score.

B

Just give us one second to get to it page 26. and then, like I said, the page 26 has the list of.

H

Prior kind of schools for that okay, the combined assessment score- is what you're talking about.

H

Now remind everybody, all the capital projects are always contingent on available state and.

H

County funding, so we try to not only request a reasonable schedule of projects based on.

H

What we, maybe, what may be possible to fund so at this point with two major modernizations.

H

Underway career in tech and east middle, we have maximized the state and local revenue available.

H

So I'll stop there. I know that was like I said a request of the commissioners for this agenda.

I

My only concern I think about this is we have 40 buildings or you have, I think, correct, roughly.

I

Okay to maintain- and if you do one a year, it's 47 years to go through it and.

I

We're out of money right now, but or in that designated funding area.

I

This will have to get creative. I think in the future on this maybe state somehow other helps.

I

Somehow, to keep up with your plan, I mean this is a I'm sorry. Oh it's just going to say, commissioner,.

L

Thank you for that comment. I think you know you've probably seen in several of our discussions.

L

At the board of ed meetings, the our fci score, which is actually part of our strategic plan,.

L

So we attempted to try to put numbers around okay. If we just, we want to make sure that the.

L

Overall condition of the school system, buildings doesn't deteriorate right, so we created this fci.

L

Score and basically said: okay, how much capital infusion do we really need to put in every year.

L

So that that score does not deteriorate right so because, if that score deteriorates, that means.

L

The overall condition of the building starts to deteriorate and start falling behind and.

L

I think we had a number when we basically tried to normalize it to an annual number. It was about.

L

44 million dollars that needed to go in every year on a capital basis in order to maintain.

L

The school system, so it's one of those shocking numbers when you hear it, but it makes sense when.

L

You think about well, if the, if the life of a of a newly renovated school building is about.

L

50 years we have 40 semi-buildings, it means you have to do about one a year at a 40 or 7 million.

L

Price tag so, but it was basically just trying to understand that this is the commitment that it.

L

Takes from a capital perspective in order to not let the school system infrastructure deteriorate,.

L

We appreciate your comments about you know it's going to take getting creative.

L

I would like to bring say also that now is the time to ask the state for funding, bring that.

C

Up because all I've heard from say lately is how much money they have and they actually have from.

C

My last meeting with mako and so forth, they have actually billions of dollars in the rainy day fund.

C

I'm not saying they're going to give to school systems, but now's the time to say this. These are.

C

Priorities, these are schools. We need to get done and get that to the state as soon as possible.

C

Because they have the money right now, last time we met with the delegation, they said, give us projects.

C

What do you, what do you need to do that kind of thing, so it'd be a good idea to afford all this.

C

Information to the state delegation see if they can help out yeah as long as they have money. Let's.

C

See we can get it. I was. I was saying the same thing, every project that we put in front.

B

Of the delegation, both in five and nine, they took on as capital projects and we got the funding.

B

um So we just and they're, like you, said, they're asking us to keep. You know the momentum going.

B

In the asks, so now, where does kerwin fit into this I mean: do they have extra funding for.

I

Buildings facilities, no the blueprint legislation does not no, no nothing in darn. It.

J

There's actually a bit of a disconnect commissioner weaver between the blueprint.

J

And and the other parts of running a school system that might come to light so, for instance,.

J

The blueprint requires, and I'm just using an example. The blue tram requires ramping up full.

J

Day, free kindergarten right, but the blueprint was more of a policy and then ultimately a.

J

Operation budget funding, piece of legislation it didn't address what the capital needs might be.

J

Associated with programmatic changes like that, so the state is making an attempt now.

J

To gear up for the blueprint the aib ideas formed, other things are forming.

J

And msde is trying to have some conversation with the public school construction program.

J

And the interagency commission on school construction to say: hey, we need to kind of get.

B

So pulling that string a little bit and I won't go down too far in the rabbit hole. But the pre-k.

B

Requirement do we have the facilities here in carroll county to support that pre-k requirement.

J

So the quick answer is no, probably not um why that's complicated, and this is probably.

J

Going to be a theme the superintendent will get to in a moment, there's not yet a lot of.

J

Very clear guidance coming out of the state and in their defense the aib just formed it.

J

Has one employee, so it's it's trickling in it's not coming with speed and clarity.

J

um So we're sort of on hold trying to figure a lot of things out which is really challenging.

J

When you're putting together a budget and that sort of thing, but when do they expect to have it.

B

Enacted well, they actually just presented to the aib just presented the ways it means to.

J

Move the timeline forward, that's sort of the timeline on their end right, developing guidance.

J

For a comprehensive state plan that then each local border would have to construct a plan around.

J

And that's nice, it's better to have the guidance you need to build a plan. The challenge we're going.

J

To face is we don't really know yet? None of the other dates in the law have have been moved yet.

J

And maybe they will be, but that's not been the discussion so far, so there's other dates that are.

J

Coming due, so even if our plan isn't due until the fall or winter, it doesn't mean that there.

J

Aren't other benchmarks that already need to be met or the risk, for instance, that we make.

J

Budgetary decisions implement our plan and find out sometime in the middle of next fiscal year. Oh.

J

The state wishes you had done this with that money. Instead of that, those are some of the challenges.

H

So the other piece that's written into the blueprint as it relates to pre-k and we recognize.

A

We're going to have to utilize space, is they call for, and I think they recognize that when they were.

H

Writing it they're asking systems to partner with non-public or private preschool providers in the.

H

Community to pick up some of that responsibility and we're at the beginning stages of trying to.

H

Figure out how that might work as well yeah, it's supposed to ultimately be a 50 50 partnership.

J

For to have enough slots for eligible children right and trying to stay out and make it, you know.

J

Making this into weeds and take it too long. Are there enough private slots, those private providers.

J

Even if they do exist today would have to go through a state certification process.

J

Are they willing to do that right? So, at the end of the day, are there enough slots available for that.

J

Partnership and if not, what does the state say becomes the local board of ed's requirement do.

J

We pick up more than that sure not, but those are there's a lot of questions and not get a lot of.

J

Answers so those are the kinds of things that we worry about. Commissioner fraser yeah, I was going.

C

To say this is a another kind of requirement by the state, but when they required kindergarten to.

C

Go we're still three or four schools behind that haven't built the additional space for them. I mean.

C

Something if I was you guys I'd be presenting to the board we'd love to do the next step. But let's.

C

Let's go back to the step that we haven't actually completed yet and how about some funding for that.

D

And uh yesterday surprisingly, so, crawford asked if he representing msde could come up and meet.

D

With us and well he said: could they meet with me and I kind of said, I'm going to throw it on.

D

Some other people that already have this down to a science and uh and we'd love to meet with him. They.

D

Are frustrated with with what they've been handed and he said, I'd love to get out to carroll county.

D

And hear your thoughts on where this is headed, and I assume we want to take him up on that sure.

D

We just need to talk a little bit about and I told him I said I don't. I said I'd love to see. I said.

D

Recently, no one from your board has visited carroll county we'd love to get you up here.

D

But if you want us to meet you down there I'll do it just so we can start this conversation so.

D

We talked two or three times yesterday and he really wants to meet us and I think.

D

It'll be a step, it's they're they're as frustrated as we are. I don't know if they're more frustrated.

B

Is the focus on policy or is it on capital? Because if it's on policy, that's one thing, but if it's.

B

On capital projects that we're talking about my opinion, and they can tell you more the blueprint.

D

Was set up, thought about for education for educators and a lot of good things, but there.

D

Wasn't a lot of plans with the rooms you need to put these people in the capital expenditures.

D

The implementation of it and and the time frame and and now the rubber is meeting.

D

The road- and I think everybody's saying oh my gosh yeah, so hopefully it'll turn to capital.

B

And what the state can do like yeah, I think it has to so. It may start off one way, but.

B

It's going down the road of policies of pre-k and other requirements, hopefully they'll, say.

B

Okay, where we can get the funding to grow these facilities and optimistically, while.

D

While it's a great idea, I think they're going to look at the dates.

D

I they got to look at the dates. I think that's what presented some dates shifts but again.

H

John mentioned earlier, we're not sure exactly what that is.

M

Yet the rest of the ten years right soon to find out.

B

um Yes, so continuing on capital uh renovations. Is there further discussion on this or.

B

Any other further questions. I just wonder you know yeah. I know you have your plan set up here.

I

How much flexibility in this do you have? If you don't have the funding you just keep.

I

Pushing things back a year and keep pushing it back great question: we look at it every year.

H

And we have these conversations about, you know where our biggest needs are.

H

What we're able to do what we're not there are times when we have to make tough decisions.

H

And move things around, it is flexible and to commissioner frazier's point earlier about.

L

The kindergarten editions- those are one of the things that have basically gotten pushed back.

M

Every on those four remaining schools that don't have them right, they're saying: well, this isn't a.

L

Top priority this year, so it's been pushed back in the schedule, probably six or seven years now,.

E

Probably longer than that, mr savigny, because there's been a plan um to get all of the schools.

E

To make sure that they each have appropriate kindergarten spaces, and you know with doing it.

E

On um a phased-in kind of basis, you know these last four schools have really been without.

E

um Their spaces for many years and again I know we've had conversation about well, you know, can we.

E

Put them in other places in the school building, but the other places aren't necessarily set up.

E

As the early learning environments that we really need um so again, you know we do need to make sure.

E

That we take care of those schools needing those kindergarten spaces and, as we're saying in this.

E

Conversation, we're also going to need preschool spaces as well. So you know we are going to need.

E

Funding to support all of that and she had a good point. Not only do we need the space, then we're.

G

Going to have to hire more educators. Well, let me ask the question then you're going to need the.

I

Space, what is your projected time? Enrollment is going to hit and need that space. How many years.

I

Are you going to need across the county kindergarten things compared to I mean we're.

I

Seeing the birth rates we're seeing things come in how many years do we have to do this? The phase.

J

Subject to possible change, the phasing was to begin this year. I think at um a 70, 30 split and.

J

Then and then ramp up ramp up five percent a year. I believe, commissioner, until it hits 50 50. so.

J

Like a five or six fiscal year window but again, there's a whole lot of uncertainty still about.

J

How many slots are we talking about how many eligible families or students exist existing.

J

Carroll county, how many of them would would want to enroll and what is the private capacity to be.

J

Part of that partnership, or not so it's it's hard to define something right, because it's.

H

Not necessarily required we're required to have the slots available for those that are eligible.

H

And so that's a little bit of a guessing game too trying to figure out exactly how many do we need.

D

And we're blessed compared to some of the other counties, because currently we do have space. It.

D

Might not be the appropriate space and then just like everybody else, while all this is going on, we.

D

Still have hvac and roofs and other maintenance ongoing, and maybe it's worth noting what we're.

J

Doing in the interim, until we know more and understand it, a little bit better is something we.

J

Were already doing we're building out the existing pre-k sites that we operate presently those that.

J

Are half day we've been expanding those to full day incrementally and we're continuing to do that.

J

And that serves the kids. It also um the money follows that that program development. So as we.

J

Add or as we transition those half-day sites that we already operate to full-day sites, we do receive.

J

State funding in the subsequent years, so it's it's a lift for the board of ed up front. But then.

J

You know funding so far under the phasing of the blueprints followed that you can see all our pre-k.

H

Schools they're packing page 32 and breaks them out by which ones are half days.

B

So this is going to to me dovetail into what's coming up in front of us in a.

B

Couple years and that's developing our master plan for the county.

B

You know our last master plan for the county was 2014. It's a 10-year requirement, so we're.

B

Looking at the next board of commissioners, you know as one of their requirements for.

B

That board of commissioners is to develop that master plan, which is going to obviously.

B

Have a lot of school requirements, you know in it and associated from the kerwin plan forward.

B

It's going to be difficult because you know.

B

You know and we'll get to the redistricting piece and health health places are growing and.

B

Some of the requirements, but just understanding that your master plan, you know for the school.

B

System and others have to have to nest, and I think this was mentioned at the beginning of.

H

The meeting, I think, that's another reason why it's imperative for the two boards to continue.

H

The line of communication because we're going to be sort of in real time getting new information.

H

That's going to be very valuable to both our boards, as we think about planning for the future.

I

I agree, but some of these just modernizations right they're, not full parent, like east.

I

Middle, so that's would be. I have assumed cheaper, never know in today's standards.

I

Do we have a dollar and program or put on this by year at today's prices are roughly an estimate.

J

If we do, I might have to call mr protocol to the microphone so when we um so and I was going to.

J

Say this and I hesitated so now that you've given me the floor. I'll say this: we'll send this to the.

J

Delegation as you request it and request funding, but just remember that the state views these.

J

Projects as a funding partnership, so they won't commit funding unless you commit funding- and you.

J

Know you've you've maxed it in in the current plan. What you know what your commitment was so without.

J

They they don't prove a project that we don't have a letter from you saying we're also committed to.

J

This project, with um with that being said, you know one of the things that sometimes confuses.

J

Folks is in the development or the planning part of a capital project. You know, how did you come.

J

Up with that number that that school should cost that much and then that gets refined as you move.

J

It to a real project and then an actual bid and construction cost, but we have to as a part of that.

J

State approval process development process use the average square foot estimate that they provide us.

J

And then every county does and we apply that on a worksheet that they also designate for us.

J

And so it's probably more complex than this, and then mr pro cop always gets a little antsy when.

J

I speak in technical terms about his line of work, but in essence they take the average public school.

J

Construction square foot cost for that time period and send that out to all of the locals and say.

J

Use this as you develop these projects, that's why you see those initial budget numbers.

J

As they are, but if we don't but we have to, we have to develop projects that way at the beginning and.

J

Submit them to the state for approval, so that's kind of how that how that process.

J

Works right now, you know the square footage construction cost at the moment or not. You should.

L

Commissioner weaver's question: we do have the cip document, you know that we approve.

L

Everything in november and the dollar amounts are on there on an annual basis on what would.

L

Be required for the projects that we're proposing right, I'm just looking at for.

I

Planning in the future, we need to have a rough estimate. I know it's pie in the sky. It's going.

I

To change, we don't know how bad in the future, but right now just predicting well, I think that.

L

We only ask for authority from the or approval from the commissioners for the current year's.

L

Capital or the next year's capital dollars, but there is a 10-year projection behind that. So you.

L

Can you can certainly see that in the or at least a five-year-old yeah, what you have is not the.

J

Budget document this is the facilities master plan. It's sort of the planning document that.

J

Assesses needs and then we pull the priorities from here and put them in the cip request when you.

J

Get the cip request in october and it also goes to the state. That's a one-year funding request.

J

And a five-year window of funding, because you know, if you look at career, tech or east, those are two.

J

Or four-year projects, so you have to look at it that way and um and you've committed thus far.

J

Beyond what the state has committed to so we've maximized state, traditional cip, funding on career.

J

Tech and then the state came up with a separate new funding stream called the build to learn, act.

J

A couple of years ago, that's how east middle is moving forward, now that our entire portion of that.

J

New stream of money went there, um but, for instance, you had approved, or you had authorized funding.

J

Upon ted and his team's request for hvac as spring garden, but we didn't get state approval during the.

J

Normal uh state commitment during the normal cip timeline, so you're actually in some cases.

J

In advance of where the state is in terms of participating, although we're hearing from them.

J

That that they're now going to move forward and fund their portion of that project too. So that's.

J

How it works a little bit of you and a little bit of them and we iron it out as we move through them.

B

I mean: does the state look at it that way where they'll back date, some of the.

B

Monies that we've put forward and then do a match or is the money we're putting forward lost.

J

Let's say they they look at it. More of they would just require a commitment letter from.

J

You I don't think that they really care about how you funded earth. They they look.

J

At their own timeline- and we have a lot of conversations with them about cash flow and.

J

How much we need from them in any given year just to keep the project the floor, so they.

F

I think it's important too, that we make sure we maintain our school buildings, so we don't.

F

Have a situation as we did in 2015., I don't think this county wants to go down that road ever again.

F

So I think it's really important that you know we do the best. We can you know. Yes, things may change.

F

From year to year, regarding repairs of that nature, but we definitely don't want to go anywhere near.

F

That ever again with having to close the school, because something was not taken care of properly.

A

Okay, okay, okay, so where are we at now.

B

23 border vet budget process and priorities I'll kick us off and then I'm sure.

B

Who wants to start looking into slide deck uh a deep discussion here? All right, you're, welcome to.

H

Get there I'll have a few comments here so when we had agreed to postpone the this joint meeting back.

H

From january, until a future day, we were hoping to have some greater clarity of what we could expect.

H

From the state in terms of fy23 funding and the state's requirements or expectations of us under.

H

The new current legislation- we think you've already heard us talking about there's some.

H

Things that are still unclear and some things that potentially are shifting so with the release.

M

Of the governor's budget in january, we do have at least a little bit better sense of our fy 23.

H

State funding figure. um Unfortunately, we don't have that clearer sense that we're talking about.

H

What restrictions come with the funding under the blueprint or what the exact expectations.

H

Are for us as a school system that puts us in a kind of a challenging spot? We know that there's.

H

Going to be things that are required of us under under blueprint, so it's great to get funds from.

H

The state, but we also know, there's going to be stipulations on exactly how that can be spent.

H

Our board held a budget work session and a public hearing back on the second, I believe in february.

H

And then, at the february 9th board of education meeting the board adopted a budget request which.

H

Was then forwarded to you for your consideration as part of your overall county budget process.

H

In their budget request, the board adopted a recommendation from my proposed budget to seek.

H

10.4 million in ongoing county revenue, which is 4 million above the county plan. So in the meeting.

H

Packet today, we've included presentations. I think there's two of them in here for your reference.

H

The first is the blueprint implementation presentation from november 10th of this school.

H

Year and that details the requirements of the five major policy areas under the blueprint, I.

H

Think that's packing pages 37 to 40.. The second is the presentation from the board's february. Second,.

H

Budget work session um and that's starting packing page 41. and again we want to have these.

H

For reference, so when we're talking about some of these things, you can see some of the details.

H

So the requirements as we've discussed under the blueprint are pretty extensive and at this point.

H

As we've said a few times now, we're still looking for additional guidance and clarity and timing.

H

And how it was passed- and we know that the state john said has won one person at the iab.

H

um And we're waiting to see what the timelines are going to be. um The.

C

I have to stop it for a second. My packet goes from pack of page 36 to.

C

Page 41., I was looking it up on my email, we're missing those pages. We don't have 38 through 40.

D

So it's just out of water.

H

Okay, no that's where I expected no they're just out of work! That's perfect! What.

B

So so, where do you want us to look? Do you want us to look at I'm just referencing? This got it. Okay,.

C

Okay, so, okay, back to given what little guidance we have at the moment here are some of our big.

M

Concerns looking forward, first of all, the blueprint requires us to meet teacher salary.

H

Requirements moving forward first is a 10 increase in teachers, salary between june of 19 and july 1st.

H

Of 24th that does not include steps, and we started to chip away at that in each of the past. Couple of.

H

Budget years, but that's still a requirement of ours, a 10 increase over those years and does not.

H

Include steps by july, 1st of 2026 starting teacher salary must be at least sixty thousand dollars.

H

What's our starting teacher salary right now, john 48 48.5, so we have a little bit of work to do.

H

We also are required to compensate teachers um well above what we currently are for national.

H

Board certification, standards- and that starts the next year. So that's ten thousand dollars.

H

In compensation, above what they're currently being compensated as well, they're, currently.

H

Getting their stuff right and that's also going to cause some compression for other scales, we.

H

Have other employees in our system and so that's going to impact that staffing as it relates to.

H

The blueprint there are blueprint calls for limitations on the amount of times teachers.

H

Can be spent actually teaching and more time devoted to collaboration. So that's going to.

H

Cause us to look at how many employees we have how we need the time requirements for planning.

H

And collaboration and such mental health and behavioral support positions, technology support.

H

Positions all part of implementing with blueprint we've already talked about the early childhood.

H

The pre-k requirements, the staffing that's needed to implement that we've talked about the physical.

H

Building space etc so heading into the budget process, we've already identified some necessary.

H

Expenditures, totaling 6.9 million dollars. This includes inflationary increases in costs like.

H

Insurance etc we're picking up some program costs that are no longer being.

H

Funded by the federal or the state funders, for example, title one: this is a good demand problem.

H

To have, but our poverty rate has slipped to the point where we're going to see. We estimate about.

H

A million less dollars we get in the title one program: we don't want to pull out the resources.

H

And supports we have in our title one schools, so we're trying to account for that in our budget.

H

We've dedicated 2.2 million dollars to the people, transportation category largely to.

H

Fund improvements to the formula through which we pay our independent bus contractors, we have.

H

Other system identified priorities, we've discussed in our work session. The total.

H

Approximately 13.8 billion dollars and include- and this is on page 46 of the packet.

H

So, just for an example, this is not negotiating publicly here, but just to give you some examples.

A

We're a large organization so to give our employees all our employees a step.

H

Costs, 5.2 million dollars for one step for all of our employees, a 1 cost of living increase for all.

H

Of our employees to 2.2 million. Thank you. We've identified school-based priorities. If you remember.

H

You know we spent a lot of time, pre-pandemic going to schools and having town halls and.

H

Talking to teachers and parents and stakeholders about the needs of our schools moving forward and.

H

It's only been exacerbated by what we've experienced in the pandemic.

H

And those resources really focused on school-based supports, like counselors mental health, therapists.

H

School psychologists and special education teachers, among others, so, as you know,.

H

Beyond the state, our other funding sources is you the county, and when you compare the 6.4 wait.

H

When you compare that 6.4 million in the county plan for us and fy23.

H

Against the needs and priorities, it's more than accounted for and we're not able to fund our most.

H

Pressing needs just a little history since fy10 carrick is schools has added a grand total in.

H

Our operating loan budget of six positions- okay, so in 12 years now mind you, we lost enrollment.

H

During that time, so during that time as well, the organization cut dozens and dozens of positions.

H

During those same same years, we think the blueprint may prove to fund some of the.

H

Requirements it brings for the increases that we're expecting, but we're also very reliant.

H

On the county to fund compensation for our all of our employees, all of our deserving employees.

H

And the supports that our students and teachers very much need in our schools moving forward. So.

H

I'll pause, there we've put a few things in our fund balance to help limp us along. um We, you know.

H

We just went ahead and said: okay, we gotta fight this off. This isn't a great long-term solution.

H

So we added a few positions in funds, but those aren't permanent they're, not ongoing. There's.

H

You know add those and others that we think we need to through our ongoing.

H

That this is where yoga helps breathe in breathe out just take a pause steve on that figure. Since.

N

Fy10, you've added six positions. That's across the board, that's correct! So, like I said there might.

H

Be everything yes they're, my administrative boots on the ground, everything, yes and it might be that.

H

People, retired or left, and we repurposed that position now. This is more needed, so we're.

H

We're not going to do what you were doing we're going to do, but the fte count has remained the.

H

Same so, you might see a different title. Usually you might see different responsibilities.

H

But then again you know granted the system had many years of declining enrollment. I know.

H

Everybody experienced all the pains associated with that, but at the same time, moving forward.

H

Pre-Pandemic we'll talk about enrollment here in a little bit, we were starting not only to level off.

H

But to start to gain students and needs change over time and priorities change over time and.

H

So we started to recognize we have needs. We have priorities that we need to address in different.

H

Ways like I said, we focused our thinking on resources for our schools, resources that.

H

Would directly impact students in classrooms and teachers supporting those students in our schools.

H

So it sounds like the problem that was trying to be solved. Was the education system in maryland. The.

B

Blueprint was created so now the problem is the blueprint and the solution has to be. How is the.

B

Funding going to occur to ensure the blueprint is in place because it's mandated and there are.

B

Certain things in the blueprint that have to be done right, I mean there's no, I mean there's.

B

There's structure to it where there's no room except it will be funded and that's the debate.

N

That's been going on yeah, but I mean so if you have the answer to that. No, but isn't it isn't it.

B

Being done, isn't the blueprint now being like you know, blessed off and said yes, it will be funded.

D

Well and the state said for those years right, carroll county doesn't have to put up any money.

D

Don't worry about it and guess what we're sitting here today worried about it right, yeah! Well,.

L

That number was supposed to be about 17 million back when they were originally.

L

Talking about and suddenly it magically changed to six right right. That's a big.

L

Difference when you're talking about our total budget and when they put the charge there.

N

Ken you know this because you and I have this discussion too. They base them on a lot of moe.

N

Documentation, so you know carol, looked really really good, but the reality is.

N

No one is really looking good they're, not they can put all the charts up, they want and it just.

D

The numbers aren't working well and it's like title one. We get punished because everybody.

D

Has worked hard to make sure we've had good schools and then we get punished for it.

N

So yeah they would argue just for the sake of what you would hear right.

J

They would say we funded the requirements of the blueprint and in year, one at face value, thus far.

J

You could probably ex, I could probably say yes technically, there's enough state money.

J

Here to fund those salary requirements that you're looking at some other things at least in year, one.

J

But they haven't funded anything else. So if the school system wants to improve in any other way,.

J

Or if later there's a future capital concern, they didn't fund any of that yeah. So if you want to, if.

J

They want to give compensation to more than just those teachers that are highlighted in.

J

The blueprint or, if they want to add some other positions that are any of those things on page.

J

46, there's not blueprint money for any of those things, and that's that's what it's.

J

Looking like going forward- and I've worked long enough here now to be able to say this.

J

Jason anderson used to say that one thing he learned from me was this: no matter what.

J

The state formula is we're not going to do well under it. Well I mean it's: it's a cliff.

B

Did they create a cliff is what they did and ten thousand dollars a teacher for now being.

G

Board certified that's a chunk of change and that is ongoing, then yeah, but that's been that way. I.

C

Remember when I was teaching it was only five. I thought they offered me 10.. I was actually going.

C

To ask that question: you know how many teachers are board certified yeah. We have that number.

J

It's 60 something right now. 65 is a probably good working number and 17 in the pipeline. It's.

J

It's actually and it could have been different. Commissioner frazier one time, his bargaining.

J

Could change things presently before the blueprint in our negotiated agreement? It's 5 000.

J

If you were a national board teacher before a certain date will probably yell.

J

So it's there's a gap there. You know it's not so the compensation needs are real and the.

H

Support for our schools and our and our teachers and our students is very real. If you remember.

H

In my first budget, I I proposed 29 positions and I recognized based on some of the fiscal.

H

Realities, but we that was a realistic look at what some of the things that we needed.

H

Right to support our schools, it's it's not unrealistic when you think about our teachers,.

H

Now, based on some of the impacts of the pandemic are having to do so. Many different.

H

Things serve as a mental health and counselor therapist and psychiatrist all-in-one, because.

H

We're desperately trying to provide those services to allow them to teach instead of.

H

Wear all those other hats, our nurses, other staff have been stretched to the limits right and so.

H

Those those 29 positions now have sort of caught up with us. We were able to add some.

H

Special education support, which is valuably needed. I think that continues to be a huge need for us.

J

May I frame it one last question: what we've done in the budget that that's been sent to.

C

You as a request, essentially, this is loose terms and whoever chris hartland is. He won't like this.

J

Either but the money- that's in your plan for us- pays for the bills that dr locker outlined.

J

Health care costs title one reduction in funding, etcetera, etcetera. That's.

J

Up to like 6.6 or 6.7 million- and I think you have 6.4 in the plan roughly.

J

The blueprint may pay for the very specific blueprint requirements at least in year. One.

J

We're asking you to pay for anything else. So do we have um year two three four and five: no, and it.

J

Was hard enough to get year, one in fact, it was so hard that we had to wait for the governor's.

J

Budget to to get it, we had debates for a long time is to make me refer to one of the fiscal note.

J

Charts from from the first day, it was until it it varied over time, but the last number.

J

Was 18.7 million for us and that looked really good? I was planning to work another 15 years.

J

It did it turned out to be 10.2 and chris, and I were trying to figure it.

J

Out in advance of the governor's budget that we were estimating conservatively at six point.

J

Six, I think that was our first, the it doesn't. Look that great. If you look at the dls.

J

Charts for the next two years, so 24 and 25, but then there's a significant jump in 26.

J

We do know, for instance, that one thing that's going to happen in 24 is there's been a part of.

J

The foundation under the thought year so from 2002 until now called gcei the geographic cost.

J

Of education index and we've been a county that actually has benefited under that under.

J

The formula that's 2.6 million dollars of state aid coming to us in 23 that we know goes away.

J

Forever and 24. it's replaced under the blueprint. Well, it goes away and there's something new under.

J

The blueprint called the comparative wage index we're not a county that qualifies for funding.

M

Under the under comparative wage, so I can't put it all together, but one for instance, is that we know.

J

At the same baseline in 24, we go down by 2.6 million and then there's variables like. What's our.

J

Student enrollment due next year, you know, etc, etc. That changes, but it's not the. What what's there.

D

What's their timeline, when can we hope for more information on the stuff you think in a month in.

D

Two months or well it's so what they're proposing is shifting the comprehensive implementation plan.

J

Timeline and that went to ways and means as a briefing so now somebody will have to drift a.

J

Bill, I guess the answer mr kyler is during this general assembly. We'll know if that gets moved.

J

But unless there's more comprehensive legislative action, what's not we're negotiating, you know none.

J

Of those other timelines are changing so there's a national board certification, the 10 by 24 and 60.

B

Yeah, that's not negotiable, I mean that's, that's you know correct yeah. So.

B

Yeah, you know, as you know, the way we establish the budget is going out five years and you know.

B

You give us this, which is understandable, but how do we establish placeholders or put things out.

B

You know beyond that, um it's gonna be extremely, I think difficult. You know beyond the swag.

B

uh I don't know I mean steve you've done this.

B

Longer than I have um as far as these type of things, we all knew. This was kind.

N

Ultimately, going to be the responsibility of us, because I don't, I don't see any magic.

N

Money being made from the state in the state right now the feds seem to have it figured.

N

Out they're, printing money somewhere, but not not like this, but not for this right.

N

So you know this is the this is these are the debates that we've been having.

N

For the last six years, knowing that this was coming.

B

Unfortunately, we're we're the middle child. I mean we're not prince george's, we're not.

B

Montgomery we're not anne arundel or howard, former county or baltimore city, I mean that's the fact.

B

And we're not subsidized like these little ones, but they're going to struggle too.

N

They are they're trust me they're, going to start everybody everybody's here.

B

They may struggle with mishandling.

N

Into places like baltimore city and where's, it going.

N

Right, absolutely, you know, we know where each pretty much each penny is down to the penny.

N

Because so and the problem is, they know that you know there's going to be the headline steve lance.

N

Baltimore city civ and then it comes down to us because I agree we're thrown into the mix with.

N

Them right no and, and you you said no, you said it extremely well accountability and mishandling.

B

And- and we know that, but with that said we know- that's that's where these large chunks of.

B

Dollars are going to go and they're not ashamed to keep asking for more. Oh, absolutely, not.

B

Really but but but the fact is we gotta figure out: okay, we're.

B

Gonna be at a cliff, you know after year one, and how do we put this in place?.

B

um Okay, I think you guys just need to build a casino and we'll just break in the money that.

F

Way and apparently that's the solution, because casino money was supposed to go to education.

M

So now they're talking cannabis, yeah, that's supposed to recreational-wise. It's supposed to go.

A

Right: okay! Well, how did that work on the casinos right? It didn't? It wasn't race track money now and.

F

Sports betting and a lot of lotteries so there's not even an answer there. Nope nope, there's not.

I

You know we have, I guess ted tells us two things. Every year you can't build a budget on hope. Can he.

I

No hope and what are you gonna cut and that's what we keep getting all the time? What services you're.

I

Going to cut so I I just uh ted says hope he said no. You can't build a budget on hope.

I

Because we're always looking for that crystal ball and hoping something comes along and then he hits.

I

Us with uh what services you're going to cut and that really hurts the thing. I think the last thing.

F

We need to do is cut from our kids anymore. Our kids are the ones that are suffering every time.

F

There's a cut here and there and that's something we just can't we're faced with the same thing, you.

M

Are here, but that's just uh at the luncheon without you guys there, he was very optimistic.

D

He wouldn't throw him under the password.

L

Of growth rates were for the county and basically said: okay, we're going to levelize that, like the school system, will get the 3.1.

L

Yes, and- and that worked out quite well until the pan, like we were actually on a path to.

L

Making this all work and then the pandemic hit and kind of threw a wrench. The whole run thing.

L

So, basically, is it possible to get the so that the four million is kind of what we.

L

Lost out on in terms of the paper- and I understand that the county's recovery is more on a one-time.

L

Funding perspective more so than the long term. But if we can kind of understand what the projected.

L

Long-Term growth is for the county and if we can do the 4 million plus levelize, whatever that.

L

That is going. I think that that's that's the most that we could legitimately ask for from you guys.

L

Right like if we understand what that growth rate is, and then you know we do everything that we can.

L

um From the state and the other side of the house, you mean you're. Looking for 4 million.

C

On top of the six million that we're already giving, on top of the six point, four or six point.

B

It is it's the point, so the the four million was basically what was what we were down from the.

L

Pandemic right, so we still had to give. um You know raises to employees, and a lot of that came from.

L

Fund balance and, and so we're basically, you know- we've got a structural imbalance that we're trying.

L

To fix, at the same time that that we're dealing with all of everyone, I think um I I apologize do.

B

You want to cut you off, oh no, I just think so. So the 4 million is really to kind of.

L

Right size us from there and then, if we can, if we can do the long term, whatever that growth rate is.

B

I um um understand that you know ensuring that the priorities are very clear on what the above.

B

And beyond that, four million you know is four the the biggest concern that I'm seeing in front of us.

B

Is how are we gonna get past year? One, um it's, not four million dollars. It's structured.

B

You know budget for year, two three, four and five.

B

And that that has nothing to do with that four million. So you know that four million.

B

Could be used for two three four and five, you know has a potential um to stretch it, but.

B

Like I said, there's some things that you threw at us, you know and again it's not first first-time.

B

News we knew like you said this, was it's a cliff that, were you know in front of and.

B

So so I think understanding that take a look at how that four million could be used.

B

In two three, four and five, as opposed to just an additional four million now.

B

If that makes sense, we already know how it could be for those we're basically saying we, we we need.

L

13.8 right, but we're right, investing four and basically saying okay, we got to figure out.

L

How to how to tear down the prioritization already to get to the four so and the four main is ongoing.

C

Money, it's not one-time money. Is that correct, yeah right, which makes it much more difficult? No and.

L

You understand that the right thing that we've kind of looked at, though, is that the the school.

L

Systems portion of the overall county budget has declined over time, so each year it's gone down as.

L

A percentage overall so we're just trying to you know, given the fact that education's a priority.

M

Trying to trying to keep that portion up right and then match the county's birth rate. So we we.

L

Understand it's a big ask yeah, you know and again we're gonna and I'll speak for my colleagues, but.

B

Take everything into consideration to include you, know all other expenditures and all other revenues.

B

That could take place uh with the expectation, at least my expectation, that there will be no.

B

Increase in revenues, you know that take place here in carroll county, except for those that exist with.

B

The existing tax rates in place, but there's no, you know, expectation at least for me. That goes.

B

In taxing uh rates will increase, which is really the only way to bring in revenue into the county.

L

Revenue does grow every year, regardless of at about two percent. I'm changing the tax rates right.

L

Yeah, that's true, but that's already that's already built into our five-year budget.

L

That we had talked about several years ago.

N

Right, the foreign rate of two percent is sort of already into it's important numbers that you.

N

Have right, as we can keep going so we've already, we've already got that right. So now we gotta find.

N

More right, but I think we need to look at what what, if the growth rate is three or four percent.

D

um I I looked at it as a taxpayer prior to being on this side of the right table.

D

Right about half my taxes go to the schools right and it has been slightly decreasing and if we get.

D

More growth, if we get, if, if assessments go up, we should be able to get our fair share.

D

Of the increase you know, I understand what you're saying you've already got. Hopefully.

D

Optimistic growth in the budget, but but yeah, it's more, you know I felt I felt like.

D

When everybody got um worried and and pessimistic during covet, um we spent a year with without money.

D

Because we didn't think we were going to have it right then, when some came we didn't get any of.

D

It and- and I think we just need to look moving forward if, if assessment's going up, if and and.

D

It's a lot of ifs and, like you say you know now, I'm building a budget on hope. Aren't I.

D

But but if it happens, we we need to somehow get our fair share. Fortunately, carroll county.

B

Although had its challenges over the last couple years did very well on its main streets.

B

You know speaking sykesville, they lost one shop and had nothing to do with covet.

B

We were able to subsidize small business through county dollars, state dollars and federal dollars.

B

There's only so much large business here in the county, so so the the growth and the dollars come.

B

I mean it really is limited. um The real impact in revenue growth would be through tax increases.

B

And you know the sentiment at least from me, you know is that that should not be.

B

um A viable option at this time going right into the postcovid environment. I think that would be a.

B

Very tough gut punch- and I agree and like you guys have said it before residential growth.

D

Doesn't quite pay for itself, it would take a home, basically 350, 000 or more to start paying.

B

For itself correct: yes, now there are homes being built that way, but you're right, so so.

B

The reality is, there's only so much revenue that we have and the growth is. You know two percent.

B

Two percent- you know so yeah and um yeah, so that's kind of where we're at and then we.

B

Do have one-time funds and one-time dollars that did come in, uh fortunately from covic relief from.

B

Federal dollars that we are using um a large part of that has having to do with broadband.

B

Which is very important because we don't want to get stuck where we were before and.

B

A lot of other things, uh social services, but okay and you have to look yeah, I'm sorry, I'm sorry go.

C

Ahead, no need to get job, please I was gonna, say also you're talking about your percentage of our.

C

Budget is going down yeah, but we've also have send up things like a paid fire and ems service. Now and.

M

Other things like that, so it's taken part of our budget and there's other things besides that, but.

C

That's like the major chunk that we're looking at right now and we're starting hiring process.

C

We're going to have it's just it's a lot going on and I understand your percentage has gone.

C

Dropped and it has- but it's because we've taken on more stuff on it on the outside there more service.

D

I understand and and again on on a slightly smaller scale. We we've done a lot of stuff.

D

To some board members chagrin pretty aggressive on trying to use fund balance and one-time money.

D

Wherever we can to try to stretch things and and we're a little bit doing, that on.

D

Hope we keep telling ourselves. No, it's. You know it's going to be there, we're okay, but.

D

You worry about that too. You know, we haven't even started our budget yet and we have a lot of.

I

Discussion and that's the idea you're presenting this today, so we have a lot of balancing and.

I

Right now, our budget's like trying to carry jell-o in your fingers. It just doesn't work.

I

We just have to sit down and start solidifying everything. Mr boucher you've been very quiet.

K

Well, I have a really big concern about inflation, just wrecking everything we're doing saying, and I.

M

Will give a prime example that we just gave our employees as of march 1st a 5.5 percent raise.

K

Well, last year's inflationary price index was 7.5, so that means technically your employees.

K

Have lost 2 percent or consumption power and no matter what we do if any of these numbers by the.

E

End of next year, we're going to be faced with the same situation, and that really concerns me.

K

Also, commissioner williams made a good point that us, or we are responsible for that, but ultimately.

K

Our citizens wind up paying for all this, and you made some very good points about those.

K

Other jurisdictions, it puts us, carry a severe disadvantage because we seem to be good fiscal.

K

Managers and we're good parents- and we have a good school system we get penalized for that.

K

I think it's so vitally important that we, our delegation, fights all the time to try to bring.

K

That revenue back- and I said it before I'll, say it again. The director zaleski taught me when I.

K

First came on board that 34 cents on every state tax revenue dollar this guy generates comes back.

K

Baltimore city gets 3.75 back, I mean we're not continuously sinking in the hole.

K

Every time we improve our county, we're getting penalized, that's directly annoying and hurts us.

K

I think that, no matter what we do in any of these programs is going to be hopeless and we're still.

K

Going to be in a hole and that the inflation this year will probably be or most likely worse,.

K

Than it was last year, this is a dire situation, we're in and I think the only true salvation.

K

Is how hard our delegation fights in annapolis to try to rectify this? This is going to be a mess.

K

God help us all nobody's mentioned inflation today, but it's it's scary. It's kind of exciting kenny's.

K

In business just like I am, I feel it constantly there's material. I can't even buy right now.

F

And all of our contractors on these projects are facing the same situation.

K

And I said in my state of the county address that as soon as our budget started this year, our.

K

Existing budget we already had existing projects coming off increases. We don't see the same thing.

K

So, no matter what we do to accomplish this and make it look good, it's only going to look good on.

K

Paper and we're seeing that county wide, I know you know we're trying to make sure we catch up with.

F

Wage increases for people working in various places, but on top of that, the business has to.

F

Raise their price in order to make sure that they have the wage increase, but then also the product.

F

That they're getting there's an increase on that. So it's it's everywhere. It's extremely frustrating.

K

And I'm frustrated because I see the pain that our employees suffer. Not only your employees but.

K

Your employees, we hear it, we see it, you know we're losing employees to the private sector.

K

At least in the private sector they can they can raise their prices that to try to help, but.

K

Ultimately, we're all paying for this another thing, I'm very consciously aware about is okay. We have.

K

Property tax assessments going up or probably you guys, are going up, but there's a yield restriction.

K

And what scares me is that, because of yield restriction, inflation will outpace what we're.

K

Bringing in I think we saw a lot of that during the epidemic is you know, houses were going up for.

F

Sale there was bidding wars, so I mean a house was easily being sold a hundred thousand dollars more.

F

Than was originally priced and then surrounding neighbors, if their property assessments go up and.

K

Then they yell and scream at us that we're raising their taxes, but we haven't raised any rates.

K

But their assessments are going up and the more inflation we have in a more national dollar.

K

Devalues the higher all their assessments will perpetually go up. Their money is losing its value.

B

Okay, so you want to reassess your four million dollar. Ask no.

D

Yeah yeah yeah yeah, it's frustrating this year because it is, but we still and and.

D

Understand what you're saying we still got to do the best we can true and and look at these.

D

Factors and do what we can, but it's it's it could get frustrating. It looks pretty grim for all of us.

L

Yeah it's! This is not going to be a good couple years. um I would just ask.

L

That you know we continue to try to work as partners to figure this all out right.

K

We're all in the same way we're all in a tough spot right. Let's, let's figure it.

L

Out together, I just want to make sure that all of our employees on both sides of this.

K

Understand we know their pain and we're focused on doing everything we can to address their needs. I.

K

Know, there's people out there worrying about their groceries. For heaven's sake, families are worried.

K

About paying for their groceries and we need to help take care of these people as best we can.

L

The one thing that that might help is that I think that you know we've had some very good.

L

Marketing capabilities over over the last year, I know we know that a lot of people are moving.

L

Into the county, because they say you know you guys, you have great schools, you're, very safe.

L

You know like we were some of the first ones to open up in maryland, and I will tell that that.

L

The schools in maryland that brought a lot of families into our county because.

L

They recognize that, and so um we have a lot of positives in carroll, county.

L

um From the schools safety um standard of living, low crime, low crime, yeah, it's it's all fantastic.

L

And that's like the marketing thing that I think is going to be bringing families in and.

F

House does not stay for sale long around here lately.

A

Okay, where are we at talked about blueprint, talked about the 4 million employee compensation.

B

I think that was all part of the blueprint piece, the 10 10 transportation formula, revisions.

B

Efforts with other county entities with the sheriff's department.

B

And I take it, that's the sro program.

H

Yeah, so I know the commissioners had expressed interest in knowing more about.

H

Some of the ways that this school system partners with other county agencies and non-profits, I think.

H

That's one of the strengths of fair kind of public schools in carroll county in general,.

H

So we have a handout in the packet that highlights some of the major partnerships with some of the.

H

Larger agencies and non-profits, it certainly is an all-inclusive, um but you know they're they're.

H

Thoughtful and deliberative partnerships that are aimed to support our student needs we're.

H

Very appreciative of our county partners and their services that are provided to our system through.

H

These partnerships, but I wanted to give you some sense, because you have a level of collaboration.

H

That we have- and certainly we can answer any questions you might have again as a customer.

G

I do want to say something about the sro program. um It's fantastic, we're like number one in the.

G

State people are looking at us, they do a great job matching up uh sro officers to the school, but.

G

Something happened this past spring. That's never happened before they had the sro officer speak at.

G

Graduation and let me tell you, that's an honor and it's always usually uh a teacher or uh in.

G

That category, but for them to select an sro states volumes of how much they are appreciated and how.

G

Much they are respected uh in these high schools and I will have to say kudos to that because.

G

That has never happened anywhere in the state of maryland, and that was deputy harvey too. Yes, he is.

I

Very much beloved by his students or to schools so to speak. He mentioned to me when he's out in.

K

Public kids will come up to him and start talking to him and thank him so he's very gregarious with.

K

People and sets a fantastic example, and that just doesn't happen. Yeah is outstanding in this county.

I

I know I don't think it's equal to anywhere in my state and- uh and I do give the sheriff credit here.

I

He didn't put rookies in there. He didn't put right people who retired he put an active right. A couple.

I

Year of a number of years, under their service in the schools, and they interact with students.

I

Just I mean uh talk about community policing. This is what it's all about right at this point.

B

I agree he matches the sros to the schools and I mean w harvey fortunately was in the right.

B

Place at the right time with the jrotc and the school nurse taking care of that young student.

B

And uh yeah he has a a table at lunch where students go to uh because they want to be with him.

B

It started out that there were students to be in challenging situations, but now it's at a.

B

Point where students want to have lunch with them so uh yeah, it's it's enjoyable to see.

B

um And uh on the flip side of that coin, while that sounds tremendous, the sro programs across.

N

The state come under attack almost every year, so when you're talking about numbers and budgets.

N

Keep your eye on that too, because it can it, it can rapidly become a huge problem.

N

And it's typically again like the money, is looked at at the big counties.

N

That want to decide what we should be doing based on what they are doing appreciate those comments.

N

But it's a place to keep your eye on something because uh it's I don't know that it's come up yet.

N

This year, I think, there's enough enough absurdity down there, that they let it alone you haven't.

D

Done what it did last year and the year before that year, before that and individual counties and.

D

Jurisdictions like some of them, don't want them to carry a handgun right. I mean it's just so weird.

B

And it's just what you guys have said before: carroll county is ahead of the curve and then.

D

We get punished for it by these other areas. We don't have negative attitudes about police.

D

In carroll county, because jim deweese wouldn't allow him to behave like that and we're blessed.

D

But then we get punished by annapolis, who wants to write a role on us yeah. So just.

D

It's a weird point, but just remember to keep your eye on that, because.

G

I do understand that, but they need to come to carroll county and see how it and how how it works.

G

So well here it's amazing and, as you bring that up, I'm thinking I just read something recently.

E

Where the sros are being compared to s ees or sse school system, employees, school security, employees.

E

And placing the umbrella of school security with the school system rather than the sheriff's.

E

Department, so there certainly are some comparisons that are being made between the sros and these.

E

School security employees coming under the umbrella of the school systems, so you're right.

E

It's something current and something we should certainly keep our eyes on the um the last few.

B

You know items I think more relatively just uh facts to share with us. um You know with.

B

Superintendent uh departure um a search is happening and the timeline I expect milestones.

B

If you want to share with us uh and the community how that's going um enrollment figures, we talked.

B

A bit about it as enrollment as enrollment figures and then lastly, dealing with the.

B

Redistricting- and you know- that's been a pet rock of mine from day one, especially as there's two.

B

Very large residential areas down in the southern part of district one it feeds into carrolltown one.

B

That's going to feed into freedom elementary, both now zoned uh residential and both have developers.

B

That look like they're going to be in place um both will be very challenged to be developed.

B

With residential as both carrolltown and freedom are getting to hit their, you know capacity so.

B

uh As that happens, how is that redistricting, um you know focus. So if we can start you know, maybe.

B

Superintendent, uh I I can hit the superintendent's search, I think quickly and then entertain.

D

Questions but all the board members before it started, had to sign confidentiality agreements.

D

And we've met, we picked maeve as our consultant to do the search which is who we used last time.

D

Who did a pretty good job um and uh we've met with them?.

B

But um the application process started february 1st there's a deadline of march 7th. We have.

D

Applications mabe is reviewing them. We will meet again to fine-tune our process.

D

And because our existing superintendent.

D

Is the kind of guy he is? He gave us plenty of notice, so we could start to search in time to.

D

Hopefully have somebody in place in in june and and that way, if they have to move, they.

D

Have to do whatever they have time to do it, and we can maybe have some overlap. Okay, and you have.

B

A good controller in place too now. Evidently, yes, that's why I've been told well-trained guy right.

M

Okay, so it's very we're very, uh I guess attuned to who the superintendent is. It means a lot to us.

I

And I just want to say I think you have done as well as your father or better. So yes, yes, that.

I

I, I think, is quite a compliment to you. Thank you. Yes, yes, yeah um and.

D

Again, I've said it before um I wish he didn't decide to not renew his contract, but.

D

Like the gentleman is, he gave us plenty of notice he's going to honor. It he's going to help us keep.

D

Moving forward- and I respect that big time um and separate us under his father in this room here.

D

Yeah the question I was asking an event last night and- and I don't know where we are with this- but.

D

um Are we just going to hire somebody to fill the spot and what happens if we don't get anybody.

D

Qualified- and I said I can't speak for the four ladies, but I mean my vote will be if we have to do.

D

An interim because there's no quality I mean we've got. I think nine of the 24 school systems now have.

D

Are searching for superintendents so right, it's right! I see somebody shaking her. It's.

D

Almost as competitive as finding a teacher, yes superintendents and health officers- yes, yes in.

D

The state yes same thing, so so that's where we are and uh um I'm happy. We do have some applicants and.

D

They seem to be may seem to be happy about them. Yeah we haven't seen them yet they do.

D

A pretty strict review and and and vetting them and they're in the process of doing that, mm-hmm.

L

Okay, we wouldn't be remiss in saying that you know we'll have community input, yes, sessions.

L

For sure, as part of what we did, we did the initial survey and reviewed that and made that part of the.

D

Process in in how we were deciding what we're doing and as we get down to the end where we.

D

Don't have to be confidential anymore, we're going to seek community input. Yes, good point.

B

No thanks um enrollment, we talked about some.

H

Already, I think there was a question originally about our enrollment, so starting on page 49 of.

H

The package you can see our official enrollment is certified for the state, as they fund us over.

H

The last three years you've got 20, 21 and 22 on the pages consecutively there in general, our.

H

Projection for this year was that we recover about half of the student enrollment decline.

H

That occurred during the first year, the pandemic and the aggregate we were pretty close with.

H

This year's official enrollment- we only see that continuing to increase this was, as of november, 8th.

H

B

So it's relatively flat- I mean at this point, but it's.

B

Moving in the upward direction, okay, now they've held you home, hope you harmless on.

I

Enrollment for the last few years, so you've been getting the money from what year.

J

Yeah, the state has sold us harmless under even the current formula, so.

J

They just they did a couple of things. First, they just ignored the first pandemic year.

J

For this year's funding, they treat it like it like it's not an enrollment year and then going.

J

Forward under the blueprint they've made permanent, the three-year rolling average.

J

So you know if our enrollment continues to tick back up in a positive direction,.

J

You won't, we won't. Other counties won't see that impact of that one sharp year of decline. It would.

J

Be a three-year average, never counting the first year of the pandemic, the year of the dramatic drop.

I

How much just asthma? How much have you lost here in the last 10 years? Do you have any idea of state.

J

Aid yeah state money's coming in somewhere in the neighborhood 12 million. I believe it was.

J

During from fiscal nine to during that first decade, I could go back and put that together.

I

That would make a significant difference. It was a huge it wasn't good yeah. I I.

I

And that's nobody's fault and things happen.

J

Right well, there was no whole heartless for all of those years. Yeah.

H

Snapshot at any point in time required a little bit of clarification and at times during the.

H

Pandemic we struggled with vacancies, but also providing coverage due to employees who may.

H

At least in the last.

H

Several weeks, things have improved significantly for us. Our sub fill rates are in the mid to.

H

Upper 90s, which we were hard to get that kind of fill rate pre-pandemic. So you know I think.

H

Everybody knows our goal is to keep schools open and keep them stood up, and that required a lot of.

H

Collaboration and work and people dropping whatever they're doing and going to hell.

H

And we did that um we're. Finally, at a place again, I don't want to miss that, where.

H

It's it's there's still some challenges, but we're in a much better place in terms of.

H

um You know our sub-fill rates and uh vacancies and vacancies have improved tremendously.

J

Right, we didn't want to put something in your packet because we're preparing this earlier.

J

With roberta and then the numbers weren't going to be accurate today, I do have numbers that I.

J

Had asked mr diaz, our hr director to pull today. So if you have a specific question of where how many.

J

Vacancies are in a certain area. I can answer that. As of today, I would just say in general,.

J

Where, where we have persistent struggle, because things have greatly improved, as dr locker said,.

J

It's in the areas that are hard to fill anyway, and it's not only special ed, but it's largely.

J

Specialized so we have some vacancies for special ed teachers. They've been slow to fill.

J

We have a number of assistants who who classroom assistants who serve special needs students and.

M

Meet their their supervision needs those those remain hard to fill other than that we had a lot.

J

Of vacancies in a lot of areas a couple of months ago, we've pretty much caught up in most areas.

J

You know more or less, it fluctuates, but things are much better now in general than they were.

J

Say in january, well I used to be a special ed teacher, but that was many decades ago. So.

B

There you go no perfect job. How is the substitute pool now so the substitute.

J

Pool is is a little trickier because those aren't folks who necessarily work every day.

J

We still have over a thousand people in the substitute pool, which would be pre-pandemic type.

J

Type numbers, but that just means that there are people in the pool who say they're willing to sub.

J

On a given day, it's who shows up who answers the phone or who goes into and takes the.

J

Slot those fill rates- that's what dr locke had referred to as fulbright. Those fill rates were.

J

Were very challenging in december january, maybe even november 70 or lower, and that's when a lot of.

J

Folks were going out to schools and other creative things were happening. um Those are now in the.

J

80S sometimes mid 90s on a regular basis, and so I you know it's hard to quantify. Why did people sub.

J

Now versus then- and it's never- I mean it's never really been a clear pattern throughout the.

J

Pandemic there's been times where it's been better and times where it's not been as well, but right.

D

If you agree, could you touch a little bit on because of all this throughout coven? There were.

D

Numerous bonuses giving and increases giving in various things to help full spots, can you.

D

Do you mind touching on that just a little yeah and several of them again.

D

We're patting you on the back of lunch today: where are your? Where are your proposals, so it.

H

I'm not going to remember them all, but last year we started with incentive.

H

We want to pay for employee groups based on some of the real challenges we had.

H

Last year, this cuts across all of our employee groups. This year we provided a thousand dollar.

J

We temporarily added on meaning not forever, but for the rest of this year. We added on to the.

J

Daily sub rates and it's hard to quantify, but I assume that helped in some ways.

J

So you you get more than you would otherwise get the sub for the rest of the school year in classes.

H

We increased the we're somebody's asked to cover in class. We work with our association to provide.

H

Some additional support there. We also increase the pay for extended learning opportunities which.

H

Are happening during the school year after school, paying teachers to work with kids, tutor students.

H

And then summer last summer and we're planning for it again this summer summer, recovery at.

H

A premium level will pay um our teachers too, and so we need to incentivize folks to.

H

Be happy we didn't make it all summer because kids need to break certainly, um but uh we have outlined.

H

Again, five weeks this summer, opportunities for kids to really get caught up and supported, and so.

H

We wanted to make sure we were paying as best we could, our employees that take on that additional.

H

Responsibility that's in november, even though they're, not our employees directly, the board.

J

Of vet approved thousand dollar signing bonuses for bus drivers, which were distributed through.

J

The contractors to them, too, you said that the uh you had, your teacher slots basically filled.

C

Are they filled with certified teachers or or not? Yes, in most cases, so we're down to.

J

Well, let me answer that by saying we can't have a classroom vacant. So in the meantime, if.

J

It's still shown as a vacancy there's some type of a substitute reporting right now.

J

We are at this very moment down to 17 teacher vacancies, most of which are special educated.

J

Education or related services like speech, language, pathologists, etc, but all the teachers that.

C

You have teaching the classrooms are certified teachers now yeah, okay, well, they might have to.

J

Be you know there might be cases where somebody's gonna leave because of pregnancy or something.

J

Like that right, temporary, are you recruiting efforts paying off? Are you getting some out.

I

Of college younger guys, or is this you're just competing with everybody else across the state.

I

Well, this is where the compensation conversation comes in all the time, because we are constantly.

H

Competing with everybody else, and we have to look outside of maryland, to find teacher maryland's.

H

Colleges don't provide enough right, certificated graduates every year to fill the needs in probably.

H

A couple of counties so yeah, so yes, we're in constant competition with everybody around us.

H

All the time and the blueprint is actually going to exacerbate that, because they've basically.

L

Decreased the amount of planning time, which means you have to have more teachers and so more.

L

Teachers, at a time when they're that much harder to find we are returning to in-person recruitment.

J

Venues this spring, so there haven't been very many of the last couple of years, but more and more.

J

Traditional recruitment areas are right now showing us that we can show up in person.

A

That should make the difference when ernesto diaz back there and the corner shows up.

J

And are we offering more open contracts as we go out to these venues.

J

We have been, um and so so another contract is when I meet you at a recruitment affair. If we.

J

We'd love to hire you, we can say: hey, hey steve, sign this contract right now.

J

We have been, um it had been very, very challenging, if not impossible, for us to do that over the.

J

Decade of the losses in state revenue and the various cuts that went with it, because we couldn't.

J

Hire people and then later rift, and so we were sort of uh limited, whereas other systems were.

J

In the past year, we have much greater flexibility, open offer, open contracts.

J

And try to get people's commitment a lot sooner, so we're hopeful. All of those things are felt.

B

Okay, I mean a lot of marketing being done, but the sale is done by the individual and we know.

B

That so the more you have the opportunity to get in front of somebody and say this is why carroll.

B

County matters and ccps is the best that's going to get them signed so um yeah. I agree and you're.

B

Right about the blueprint, so you even recruit from the uh county uh office here. So that's that's good.

C

Yeah, I know you're yeah, no you're, not okay,.

H

So we discussed at a prior joint meeting when we uh reconsidered reinstituting. What was formerly.

H

The process freedom. We wanted to confirm this fall's official enrollment and indicated when we.

H

Come back to the board of ed for approval, we did that in december the board acted to form.

H

A southern area redistricting committee and they began their work and that, I think, is the last page.

H

You can see the board over there in your packet. Give some background on the general timeline.

H

So the group is formed. um We work with schools that may be impacted, ensure we have sufficient.

H

Parent representation and communication we're also grateful that a couple of folks from the.

H

County staff are joining this process again and at this point the committee's had three meetings.

H

I believe establishing the district baseline of data background information and, as the committee.

H

Works moving forward, we'll update the appropriate. We have a section on the word website where we.

H

Continue to put updates and information meeting schedules, meeting, documents etc and we'll.

B

Definitely appreciate it, I believe our director of planning, linda eisenberg, is on that committee.

B

And uh and that's important as the planning commission continues to be challenged sometime.

B

With some of these developments that are limited because of the schools, you know.

B

And uh you know, especially as we're seeing down the south, so okay, both linda and laura mckay.

B

That's right and lawyers on it too yeah yeah, so I think we just need to be very open um and.

L

Transparent and and broadcast this information as early and as often as we can because people buy.

L

Houses right based on where they think that their kids are going to go to school right. So if you.

L

Change where they're potentially going to school? Oh absolutely in the house, it creates an uproar.

A

In the community right, like I know, freedom we keep talking about, you know redistricting freedom.

L

It's one of the top performing schools in the county. I'm not sure that parents want to leave.

L

No, nobody wants to leave. No, I know they don't want to be pushed too. No, I I agree. It's just.

B

That the growth in the like the beauty, property and a couple other.

B

Parcels that are relatively large that feed into freedom can't grow unless something happens,.

B

And so it's just this empty space, so we've got to figure out either.

B

Expand a school or move folks from one school to another where it has a better fit. I trust me I.

B

100 agree and I get the same feedback from freedom and from carrolltown and pioneering all the others.

B

That feed into liberty and century um yeah you're not gonna, get the argument from me on that. I just.

B

You know believe we need to look at where the growth areas are in the county, which.

B

Are the municipalities and the one large freedom, growth area and say, okay, how do they impact our.

B

Public school system and if you know as they grow residentially will it have impact on our schools.

B

And if it does, how do we need to make those adjustments and communications is paramount to all.

B

Of this you know no doubt, and any quick decision is the wrong decision so yeah. This is a very.

I

Unpopular thing to do, I understand that big time, however, without the money to build other schools.

I

And you have less enrollment other places, you don't have much choice other than to.

I

Pursue redistricting at this point, and I I I don't you know uh I I you have to explain it to.

I

People that way this you know you're overcrowded here we have capacity here. uh I wouldn't want to.

I

Be in your shoes, let's put it that way. uh This is a very unpopular thing to do, but.

I

Something that periodically has to happen like I'm, not saying that it shouldn't be done, because.

L

It's right, it has to be looked at and right. We have to come up with some options right, but just.

L

Again, it's the whole partnership thing. Oh no, I I get you yeah. It's going to be a big issue for.

L

The community and we all need to be sympathical, and I think we got to look um same with you guys.

D

If it wasn't for covet, we'd have some of our 29 people. We we'd be done. This redistricting.

D

Committee talk, but everything got shut down and and it to me it was not surprising but just a fact.

D

Of life there were people in the first committee that didn't have kids in that school anymore. You.

D

Know I mean it's, it's it really held us up and but I don't see how we could have effectively done it.

D

During that time period, but yeah, it's it's tough enough, like you're, saying anyway yeah, but but then.

D

You go through this and it's it's hard enough, but it's but I agree and it's one of the things I said.

D

um When I was running for this position, we need to look at redistricting and people don't want.

D

You know it's not a four-letter word, it's. We need to talk about it.

D

You know oh absolutely and uh same thing when you know I started as well, because I saw the impact.

B

Appreciate the cantonese appreciate the openness um that we're having and definitely would like to.

B

Continue this as we move forward as we walk into the budget session, we don't need a joint meeting.

B

While we're doing that, but doesn't mean that we can't have the conversations um just like anything.

B

Else- and we finish with the redistricting a lot of the conversation that we had.

B

Is uh folks think that we should keep up with the joneses or whatever? That comment is.

B

The baltimore counties, howard counties, anne arundel's, where they're able to build schools.

B

Because everybody wants turf fields and build schools, you know and new schools and that's not.

B

How we're designed you know we are very proud to be fiscally conservative and triple a rated and.

B

Having the best schools in the state and the best teachers um and education, uh you said it earlier.

D

We're the middle kid, but we're proud to be the middle class we're jan. So it's um we're rocking it.

B

Yeah, so so so the fact is just continue to uh share the message. um You know you're, not shy and.

B

I know that so let us know what the needs are always um and again. I appreciate your time.

B

Mr president, any no. I just want to thank everybody, great conversations, great discussions and.

D

That's how we get things done, that communication is the key to everything we do and we serve.

I

In a lot of boards and commissions, we have a communication with each boarding commission so.

I

We know what's going on and with the school board. These joint meetings are because you are half our.

I

Budget so they're very important. I know it's going down a little bit, but it's almost half. What's that.

C

No, it's going down a little bit, but it's almost half but I have to say I'll always leave these.

C

Meetings feeling optimistic that we've talked some things out and that we're moving forward.

K

If I may, before we close out dr locker, you broached a little bit on mental health earlier.

K

That's a big concern of mine and we've seen on national news how there's a spike in juvenile.

K

Suicide, mental health and addiction- where are we with their student population on those issues.

K

And what type of resources potentially do we need to allocate to them? And I state this because when.

K

I did my first budget with you. This is one of the subjects you brought to me and I respect.

K

You for that, and I don't think the situation has gotten better with the covet situation. On top.

K

So I was wondering: is there any update on that and where are we at we'll update in terms of our.

H

Students did we see anything negatively going on our school system with all that, you know it's a.

K

Private issue, but is it cropping up in the school system yeah? I I you know, I can speak anecdotally.

H

To you please do it. I spoke to you today about the need for more mental health, supports.

H

Counselors therapists, obviously you know we saw a lot of behaviors concerning behaviors coming back.

H

We see some kids in need and a lot of those services and supports that they.

H

Traditionally, benefited from they got in school or got connected to in school.

H

And not being in school, you you're, I read a statistic just the other day, you're about 50 to 60.

H

More if you're a student likely to seek out and get services and supports if you're, going.

H

To school, whether it's through at school or connected through some of these partnerships.

H

Absolutely the non-profits are supportive, yes, the ones that we referenced earlier, and so that is a.

H

Concern of ours, we did build into our our fund balance the need for substance, abuse prevention,.

H

um Specialist who's been working with us for a couple of years. That was huge because they're.

H

Starting to be a liaison too over the last couple years, is that a tough thing to fill like the.

K

Special education teachers is this: a field that's hard to recruit in as well.

K

Well for that, because we only had one it wasn't as hard. um You know special education.

H

Realm we're talking multiple positions and that's that's harder for sure. I know our counselors.

H

Particularly at the elementary and middle level, um you know have concerns about some of the.

H

Things that they're they're, seeing some of the things that that, for the interruptions that we've.

H

Experienced and some of the trauma that students have experienced that plays out in our classrooms.

H

um That affects the peripheral, children around sure, absolutely right and.

M

If somebody somebody used the analogy, if you're, if even one student in the classroom.

H

Is having challenges um that can affect everybody in the classroom.

H

And so it can be unsettling or unnerving and challenging, particularly depending on.

H

The age, and so that's something that we we built into the uh into our thinking.

H

We started thinking about this pre-pandemic because we knew it was.

F

We have sources of strength even during the pandemic, when schools were virtual, they did have.

F

Sources of strength meetings virtually so having that program in our schools is very important as.

F

Well and making sure that our staff is getting the proper training they need to implement those.

F

Things into the each individual schools, it's phenomenal, yeah. I appreciate you mentioning.

H

That, ms bataglia that's a program where you know we recognize we have students with needs where.

H

We're trying to provide training, as mrs bataglia mentioned, and then also other students can serve.

H

As supports or or peer mentors or students, a lot of times, we know our students are also willing to.

H

Go to their peers or their friends for support, so who can point them to a trusted adult and point.

H

Them to somebody in the building who could be a resource, so it's not like we're sitting around.

H

Waiting there's a lot of proactive things happening, but I can tell you.

H

Talking with teachers talking with principals being in schools,.

H

We definitely have felt some of the impact, as it relates to how social, emotional well-being.

H

And look if you're not available mentally or emotionally, it's really hard to learn.

H

Yes, being a teacher is a lot more difficult than it used to be okay, so dr torchy.

E

I appreciate the discussion. I appreciate the opportunity thanks for listening and again.

E

Thanks for being opened to you know what our needs are. That's what we're asking we know it's.

E

Not an easy thing to hear that, yes, we need all these dollars to do all these wonderful things.

E

But as you said you you knew it. You have known that it's been coming um so here we are and.

B

I said, let's listen to you, learn from you'll, be together with you and we'll get it done. Is herbert.

D

Anybody that has a sticker if you want to go out the side door. Andy has volunteered to take.

D

Them and that way they won't think you spent the night. That sounds good with that. I need a motion.

B

To adjourn okay, you need a second I'll. Second, I got a motion lots of seconds all in favor.

B