Carroll County, MD Board of County Commissioners Open Sessions, 3 Nov 2022

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From YouTube: Board of County Commissioners Open Session November 3, 2022

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Okay good morning, I'm commissioner, ed rothy and it's thursday november 3rd.

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I believe we have a pretty full agenda for uh open session this morning.

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Can't believe it's november just remember to change your clocks uh this weekend. I know that.

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And hopefully everybody had a healthy halloween, although it a bit wet, um let's, as we always do.

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Stand for the pledge of allegiance and a moment of silence before we begin foreign.

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Okay, as we always do, let's start with uh priority carol. I believe I have one proclamation this.

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Morning, commissioner boucher, thank you good morning. Everyone we have a nice full house.

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Today, thanks for attending, I want to start off as always welcoming new employees to the county.

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We have lindsay pereira, collection, specialist collections, office, pharaoh, solomon enterprise.

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Gis analysts, technology services, kyle thornton, emergency communications, specialist, public safety.

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And christopher stately public safety technician- I was one of mr swam- has anything up here to.

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Share with the public, oh I want out here you go for halloween. I went out to the career and.

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Technology center for first I want to enter the new side, that's been built and they had their big.

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Country breakfast I'm always about the food. The kids did a wonderful job. They also did pumpkin.

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Decorations there's some of the work that the students do. It was a very festive environment.

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It's very important for the students to have us come in and support them financially. So there's.

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Donations be involved with this breakfast and that money goes to help the students compete in.

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The state and also the national skills olympics- and this is very important to me because in 1985.

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I was part of a vocational skills olympics. I was the number one student welder in state of.

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Maryland competed nationally so to be able to give back to the community and support these students.

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Out there, who are going to be the future of our county and the jobs and their leadership and the.

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Businesses, it's a tremendous honor to be part of that. I believe I even seen their former controller.

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Rob burke out there you have a photo of mr burke, I don't know if I sent that, but I ran into him at.

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The entrance- it's always good, to see your former employees here at other events being supportive. Do.

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We have anything else. Mr swam, I had a meeting. Is that it all right? Oh here we go here. We have this.

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Is dwight amos or landfill match? I want this slid in here. I had the department of public works kind.

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Of my office this week to discuss something, that's on our agenda and I told dwight amos, he could sit.

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In the commissioner, sharing be the commissioner for about five minutes. He was a pretty good boss.

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To me, I just want to express my sincere appreciate appreciation to this man here. Dwight amos he's.

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Been instrumental in helping us get a grasp and understanding on the needs of our landfill and.

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I can't give him enough praise, I believe, he's been a county employee for over 42 years. He's.

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Aware of the knowledge- and I just want to share my appreciation to everyone in department, public.

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Works, thank you very much and he graduated from the francis scott key high school. There you go.

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Should be no question as to his competence and intelligence level, just saying sorry go ahead.

C

Yeah, okay, are you buy it? um What's your name, uh commissioner? Weaver? Okay. First of all, I just.

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You mentioned the tech center and commissioner rusty and I did stop by the tech center one day.

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To look at some of the things they've done is beautiful what they have out there and I.

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Think that's going to be uh just add on to the asset we have in carroll county and we were.

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At the hospital last week for the stroke, smart program after session uh really uh interesting.

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What's going on with a uh at the hospital with that program, they had a little uh magnets, they.

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Were handing out on you know the symptoms and what uh how it works, and it really I did put it.

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In the refrigerator just to look at it, because if you can get the first few hours to get help.

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After a stroke, it can be a major difference, and so anyway, that was a very good program I'll let.

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You talk about the proclamation you presented here in a few minutes on it and, uh as I said, this is.

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After halloween, we do change time again here, so I hate that, but anyway, um getting getting rid of it.

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We're going back, you're working on it right, I think it passed my understanding. Is it passed.

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So we'll fall back this year, we'll spring forward in the spring and then that's it suppose. I think.

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Anyway, cool, okay, that's it yeah, that's good! I was hoping they did.

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I'm about six years ago we tried to get carol not to do it just carol. Somebody told us now.

C

You can't do that, commissioner, frazier good morning good morning. Kind of going with this.

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um Don't have much to add the be smart for the smoke. The stroke smoke for the stroke.

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That was the first sign [laughter]. Don't ask me to repeat a phrase: don't do that.

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Was well worth going over there and, and you know, hearing from the people at the hospital about.

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Strokes and so forth, and and what commissioner weaver already said, having someone get help.

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Within the first, I think it's with three three and four and a half hours is extremely important.

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To the rehabilitation, how much they can recover from that, so it's very very important and one.

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Thing that they emphasize was, if you think someone is having a stroke of think, just go.

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Go to the hospital. Have them check you out if you're not having stroke. It's fine.

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They don't they won't yell at you. If you are, it might say it might, make your recovery just be so.

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Much better, so it's very, very worthwhile. You know it's just to go. A lot of people are afraid to go. I.

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Think I'm having a hard tax stroke or whatever. Now I'm not going to go, and it's too late, if you think.

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Something's going on go to the hospital go to the emergency room, find out, get get the facts. Do not.

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Lay down and take a nap: no, no, no people do that because they, I think I lay down, take a nap and I.

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Feel better when I wake up okay, possibly not and a personal knows many of you know I still coach.

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um You know in the afternoons that coach middle school across country we just wrapped up our.

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Season over at christelle academy, I have to say I had the top runner in our league ben miller,.

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Put his name out there, he won every single race this year, and not only did he win every.

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Single race, most of the time you couldn't even see the person coming in second, because that's.

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How far ahead he was his closest race. The kid was 24 seconds behind him, which is a.

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Good distance, most of the time he finished over a minute minute and a half ahead of.

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Second place person tremendous running for an eighth grader, really looking for great things,.

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For him at the high school level, and that's it for me, thank you, okay. Thank you, commissioner.

G

Whence was that, due to the coaching, I didn't want to say that out loud since you brought it up.

C

He had the bicycle right, that's all. I have just yeah.

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Good morning I've been riding ambulances for 47 years. I've taken a lot of stroke, patients.

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To a lot of places, and what carroll hospital center is doing is amazing, as always so kudos.

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To all the folks over there, not only is it the hospital, but it's um it's the um it's. The.

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Folks that are serving on the um what's the name of the the that dot's in charge of fox.

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Partnership program healthier carol, thank you. Celine uh yeah, everybody, everybody that was.

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Involved uh with that or is involved, so thank you to all uh here is your charles carroll community.

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Center update for the morning uh since we were up there last things are really changing. uh This is.

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Inside the proposed, the new auditorium or the new gymnasium sorry uh serious serious into drywalling.

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And getting ready to paint keep going chris. What else you got? It was interesting because for the.

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First time, in probably the history of silver run, there was a crane in the air two weeks ago.

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And it it apparently created a ruckus. Were you involved in that ruckus keith? Okay, all right.

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That's typically, where there's a ruckus since you're involved just saying anyway, the crane.

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Came in and put that air handling system down uh and it apparently uh again had a lot of spectators.

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Up there, because folks have never seen anything like that silver run. uh What else you got there's.

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The you guys are all familiar with this, because we took the tour there. Weren't walls there when.

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We were there, there are walls there now and then. Finally, on the outside, you know there's.

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The multi-purpose rooms- uh this is yeah, keep going chris, the next one. Here's the um here's, the wall.

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That's outside that's going to have a bench on it. The flag, poles are going to be there and.

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All of that brick is from the old charles carroll school, so we're we're putting in as much history.

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From the old school, as we can, when you walk into the lobby, you'll be walking on the old gymnasium.

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Floor from charles carroll, as you approach the display case, that will have a lot of items from.

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The old school so we're putting in as much history there as we can- and I know a lot of members of the.

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Community have been going up there they're, anxious to see it still. Looking probably kirk is going to.

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Probably hit me for this, but I think I think maybe april ish we're looking hopefully march or april.

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But it's coming along real! Well, and you know it's coming along when I was able to pull right.

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Up to the front door and park the other day and actually either today or yesterday, they were going.

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To put the first level of blacktop up there, so um really, I want to say kudos to everybody again.

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um I know you probably get tired of hearing me say this, but this is one of the legacies.

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That I will leave leaving this office and dick for your purposes today. Count is 31 and four. I always.

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Want to give that to you, he knows what I'm talking about, but this is going to be an amazing addition.

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To the community up there and not just that community but as commissioner rostine has said,.

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Many times it's all about carol and um they'll be people there from far and near utilizing. This.

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Impressive building, so thank you to especially kirk ingle he'll, be in here later on today.

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uh Because there's a couple items that we have to address, uh but to everybody that was involved in.

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Making this become a reality so other than that kudos to doug brown and dpw. Yesterday they had.

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A good winter weather coordination meeting: we do it better than anybody in the state when it comes.

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To snow removal and being prepared for winter weather, so kudos to the folks there and stay safe.

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Out there supposed to be a beautiful weekend, so stay safe out there, as you said last week, leaves.

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Are coming down slippery surfaces on the road we had several accidents in the past two three days.

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Some of them were, one of them was pretty bad, so it slowed down and um respect those that are out.

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There on the road that are on our ambulance's fire engine and police cars. No, I appreciate it and.

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One of the uh you know: deeds, and not just words to live by is don't take yourself so.

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Serious take the job you do very seriously, and I had the opportunity this past week to attend.

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A good scout uh breakfast over at howard county and our good scout breakfast will be in december.

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And I look forward to attending that. But the good scout in howard county for many years was.

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Emceed by a gentleman named dick story- and I think chris you have that picture there- you go.

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Of dick and I and many folks in the community know dick he was part of carroll county. He was part of.

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Howard county, he lives down in berlin. Now he did not emcee it. This year he has been a mentor of.

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Mine for many many years he's going through some very challenging times. His wife basically says.

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Day by day, um and but he has that that smile and that just really warm warm hearts so he's a very.

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Special man uh and leader and mentor to everybody that he's come across so and an incredible voice.

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An incredible voice: he had that booming voice, so yeah pretty special uh another mentor and friend.

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um Is I believe, somebody's birthday was uh the other day uh yesterday? Maybe chris do you have.

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Something we can share. Oh there, he is who's. The guy with hair. Wait, go back, bring it back. Chris.

E

Chris, I didn't see that okay, now, let's just see how we can you haven't changed at all. Okay, we're.

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Gonna, get there just bear with me seriously: okay, a little bit more seriously this. This is priority.

C

Carol seriously priority uh-huh. I haven't seen that much hair. I mean look at that. Look at that.

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That just means we like that is the francis scott key. I want everybody in the room. You.

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Know and the thousands of viewers that I choose to cut my hair like this. Thank you all very much.

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That's not the question five eight. I know there ain't no five. Eight.

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They had platform shoes, so uh so a happy belated birthday to our friend and colleagues I'll respond.

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To that, in a form of a question, thank you yeah, we're not sure about that. So, okay, um chris, you can.

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Take that down, because, on a more serious note, uh I have the opportunity to provide a proclamation.

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um It's called operation green light for veterans week and secretary uh owings and deputy secretary.

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Finn and I were together a couple weeks ago- and we were talking about this and how to continue to.

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Promote this across maryland, this is a national uh opportunity to recognize our veterans, leading into.

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Veterans day on the 11th uh and we'll talk more about that, you know we could talk more about that.

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Next week but operation green light and we're going to light up our um uh county building.

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um Starting on the seventh and go through the 13th, and I have a proclamation, that's what the.

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Lighting is going to look like I'm very impressed the partnership with our facilities, guys in making.

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This happen um because there's a lot of technical pieces to making it look green and now having the.

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Ability to make it look whatever color, we do want it. So what I like is to get. Maybe the three of you.

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Come on up here at the table, bill helene, yeah and uh I'll take a minute reading the proclamation I.

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Know we have a team behind you because it takes a village to take care of our veterans and we know.

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That and bill nash is the chairman of the veterans advisory committee, where um both commissioner.

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Weaver and I truly enjoy participating um and- and uh you know you definitely make a difference so.

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Yeah jack yeah thanks! Why don't you come on up and just pull a chair? That's okay!.

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Yeah that'll work thanks: okay, the proclamation thanks dick.

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um Operation green light for veterans week november 7th 2022 november 13 2022.

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There's a whole lot of wear, as is which I'm not going to be saying, but that's okay, I'll start off.

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With, whereas the residents of carroll county have great respect, admiration and the utmost gratitude,.

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For all of the men and women who selflessly served our country and this community in the armed forces.

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And the contributions and sacrifices of the men and women who served in the armed forces have been.

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Vital in maintaining the freedoms and way of life enjoyed by our citizens and carroll county seeks.

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To honor these individuals, who have paid the high price for freedom by placing themselves in harm's.

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Way for the good of all and veterans continue to serve our community in the american legion.

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Veterans of farm wars, religious groups, civil service and by functioning as carroll county.

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Veterans service or officers in 29 states to help fellow former service members accessed.

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More than two 52 billion dollars in federal health, disability and compensation benefits each year and.

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Approximately 200 000 service members transitioned to civilian communities annually and estimate.

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20 percent increase of service members will transition to civilian life in the near future.

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And studies indicate that 44 to 72 percent of service members experience high levels of stress.

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During transition from military to civilian life and active military service members, transitioning.

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From military service are at high risk for suicide during the first year after military service.

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And the national association of counties encourages all counties, parishes and boroughs.

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To recognize operation, green light for veterans and the board of carroll county commissioners,.

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Appreciates the sacrifices of our unit, united states, military personnel and believe specific.

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Recognition should be granted now. Therefore, we, the board of county carroll county commissioners,.

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To hereby proclaim monday november 7th through sunday november 13th 2022 as operation green.

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Light for veterans week and uh it's about deeds and not words. It's about action, and you show that.

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Every day in what you do so uh I just want to say from me to you. I appreciate all that you're doing.

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um And also all that still needs to be done and we don't cowered away from it and we don't hide.

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Behind it, we hit it on front and and center. So uh I do appreciate that because we still have a whole.

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Lot of work to do um you know, and I've talked about my endeavors um and I just whatever you.

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Need from us, you just keep us in mind and, and let us know so with that said, does dick or nobody does.

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It better than carroll county, you guys are part of that. Why it happens in carroll eight years.

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Ago I was just elected back in the office here mike mad dog seder was in, I think the first week.

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And weaver my your office now and I'm like and mike, and I grew up together. We knew each other.

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Very well, and he made me promise to keep moving with what he had started with the veterans council.

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And it was a just an infant organization at that time or advisory council, and uh he uh no he's no.

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Longer with us, but uh we have carried on, I think what I promised him and we would do and you guys.

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Have made a big big part of that to get it to this point, we have the veterans celebration in carroll.

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County, we have a lot of things going on here that have just uh phenomenal in carol, and I know.

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uh Secretary owens and secretary flynn recognized carroll county and what they've done for veterans.

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Here in the county- and you guys, I just want to say thank you and all the events you have and being.

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Part of post 200, I uh do see a lot of those events, maybe more than some of the others, but thank you.

D

I really appreciate it a lot of credit honestly before I pass it on doug howard, commissioner doug.

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Howard, you know in initiating the veterans council, frank valenti, besides just being the chair, giving.

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Up his space over in social services, ed kramer, I mean great friends and just colleagues that.

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Have stepped up to make a difference that initiate this along with mad dog and and you so any other.

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Comments, if I may, I want to thank you all for your leadership in this. I know.

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There's a lot of other people behind you, as this seems to happen in these situations.

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You all have provided leadership to the community. I hear time and time again from.

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Veterans, how carroll county is a place they want to live and that's reflective of our communities.

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Values, I also want to give thanks to commissioner rothstein for his advocacy and leadership on this.

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Issue he brings a lot to the table, someone who's experienced, what you've experienced and that.

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Leadership produces dividends and how we are as a county and our quality of life thanks. Everyone.

C

Well, I can't say enough: that's not already been said, and I promised you dick right.

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After you had that meeting with mad dog that, I would make sure that I supported you and your.

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Efforts back in 2014 when we first started this adventure that you and I have been on.

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uh And we we do, we do that. uh Listen, I wasn't in the military. uh I had a choice back in 1979 and.

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Went the other way into public safety, uh but I appreciate the sacrifices that all of you have.

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Made uh over the years coming from a paramilitary organization, uh I understand it uh because I've.

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Seen the sacrifices that my brothers and sisters have made too so to all of you uh if it was up.

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To me, we'd have the green light on 24 7. because we're here because of what you all have done for.

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Us- and we can't ever forget that, so I have a tremendous amount of respect. We haven't always.

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Agreed over the last eight years on things dick and I, but um I respect the fact that.

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He is a veteran and then, when ed came on board, uh the respect I have for him is is uh beyond.

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uh What folks can imagine so to everyone? uh We can't we can't stop. We got to continue, I saw I saw.

C

My wife showed me a facebook post last night from a veteran in taneytown.

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That is was asking for. Is there anybody around that? I can just talk to and play cards with.

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That they moved here so uh I'm pretty sure someone else saw that as well and they're on.

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That, if not I'm going to forward that, but that's what we need to do and that's what.

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This kind of thing is out to light so that folks do understand that so.

C

uh Thank you. Thank you. Thank you to all of you and we'll I'll continue to thank you to my dying day.

C

And it's always good to see you neighbor. Thank you dennis. Did you want to chime in or just oh.

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You, okay yeah, it's just I mean you want you want to hunt, I mean I I'm not sure. What's going on here.

G

Okay got touched by that, I will say, having grown up in military family, my father was in service and.

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I see a sacrifices that were made by him and things he had to do when he he was in a coast.

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Guard when he went on ship and so forth, he was gone for months or six weeks or a couple months at.

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A time to come back and the sacrifices have to be made, I do appreciate everything that the military.

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Has done for this country! Thank you very much, okay bill. It's up to you now sparkle, us with your words.

H

um On behalf of the veterans advisory council, all the veterans of carroll county and the american.

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Legions in carroll county we'd like to thank the commissioners for your support, continued support.

H

And for the proclamation, thank you. Thank you. So much anything else. You guys wayne.

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Please I'm jack bowersox, I'm post commander of post 200 over in hampstead and I'd just.

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Like to take this opportunity to thank you, people for this, because.

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55 years ago, when we started coming up in vietnam, we didn't get anything like this. It's great to.

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See it took took too long, I'm sure you can agree, but we do appreciate it. The majority.

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Of our members are vietnam veterans, and they appreciate what you guys are doing. Thank you.

J

Elaine, well, I only spent 30 years in the marine corps, but if I could done more, I would have but.

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I really appreciated what I have seen in this county. What we do for veterans.

J

And I am now on the maryland's veterans commission down in annapolis and and I see what they're doing.

J

At that level, for the for the veterans and if we ever need any help at this at this level, we.

J

Can we can get it? We can get some help and, like I said, we're working on that next veterans, home.

J

Here in the county and it's it's moving forward, it is and um and now yeah because of secretary.

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Owens he's put me on the uh we're doing a we've. Never had a woman's memorial or or monument in.

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This county right to speak of and- and he put me on that committee so now we're working on that and.

J

That's going to be a long haul because you have to fundraiser get a designer get our account and.

J

All that you know and of course, one of the things we were talking about, maybe putting it at that.

J

At the sykesville veterans home as an entrance way or something like that, but that'd be cool. It would.

J

Be nice, but uh we want to put it someplace where everybody would see it, so maybe it'll probably be.

J

In the capital area in annapolis, I guess but a lot of things we're doing for veterans in this county.

A

So you're talking about a memorial for the state or for the county for the state or for the state.

A

Okay, because they don't have a woman's monument of any kind, and so now the governor hogan. He has.

J

Signed a proclamation right, they have that done so we'll be getting some funds from that level, but.

J

There's a lot a lot of roads that and we've got jan struggs, who everybody's know that name who had.

J

Something to do with starting the vietnam memorial down in dc he's going to be on helping us on this.

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Committee to help us with all the struggles, that's ahead because he's been there and done that so.

J

We're doing a lot of things, and I appreciate what we what we're doing here in this county. It's just.

A

um No, I appreciate just uh for the good group, the veterans home that you mentioned, uh and I've.

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Said a few times, 65 percent funded by feds 35 by state zero by the county, which I like very.

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Much the workforce has the opportunity to come from the county, especially from the community.

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College when it comes to nurses and other staff, it'll be about 140 beds, about 165 million dollar.

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Facility, that's going to be down slacks road and you know I was talking to the secretary it'd, be.

A

Great to do some groundbreaking with at least a e architecture engineering uh by april, so uh we're.

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I know also talking to others in the fed about additional funds for that so great initiative.

A

And uh yeah that's good stuff, so I didn't know if you were going to mention about the another.

J

Dedication of a road for colonel weber is coming up here on saturday, yes, and it deputy secretary.

J

Finn and I are going to attend that uh for him, and so will uh commissioner weaver with a proclamation.

A

Okay, yeah it's pretty special and, uh and that goes out to everyone as well. Roads, bridges have.

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The opportunity to dedicate them in memory of those that have served and others that have.

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Been put into uh honorable positions given their lives, uh everyone who thanks me for my service, I.

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Turn around thank them for giving me a reason to serve, and that's what this is really all about. So.

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um Okay, why don't we uh get a happy snap? I think we got a whole lot of folks like I said it takes.

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A village so celine, why don't you bring your team up as well? And while us stand back here.

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As we introduce them, maybe- and talk a little bit about what I don't know- yeah no yeah, okay,.

C

My granddaughter yeah.

A

All four of you up here in the center yeah.

K

Yeah you and bill just in the middle.

L

Gina [laughter], I was over here gina.

A

Yeah, are we lopsided now we got too many people over there.

G

Thank you. Thank you all right. Thank you very much. Yes, sir.

A

We'll get there thanks: okay,.

A

D

Real quick before we get into the order of business, and I I apologize.

A

um Just one other um chris, you got that photo.

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I apologize so this is a woman silva. um I forgot her last name. She just passed away out.

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Of pikesville she was part of schindler's list and uh was a holocaust survivor, and I had the honor of.

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Having her on fort meade, having a conversation, I didn't even know this picture was taken, it was in.

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The baltimore sun this morning, so I'm getting these calls about pitching a baltimore sun and.

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I'm like okay, what is this about and uh she was, I think, one of about 1200 from my recollection.

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Of schindler's list that went through hell and back and um yeah she passed, I think just either.

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Yesterday or day before, I just want to share that again, pretty special. So thanks chris.

A

Let's start with mr hein financial assurance plan required by maryland environment.

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The fap of the world, it's a public hearing. I apologize you're right so.

A

Who's going to start it, mr burke, you want to start it or chris could start it yeah sure.

M

Good morning, commissioners, so we were before you last week to talk about the financial assurance.

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Plan for the national pollutant discharge elimination system permit that we have and.

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As we discussed last week, this is essentially an accounting exercise where we document for.

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The state that so we are that the county is providing the funds necessary to meet our.

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Permit requirements, and so we went last week through the details of that and then the state.

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Requirements are that we have hold a public hearing, and then you approve the financial.

M

Assurance plan for a submission to the state for their review and approval as well. So today.

M

We're here to hear any public comments and, as usual I guess we would hold the record open for.

M

10 days and then we would be back before you requesting your approval of the plan.

A

A

Before we go into public, do we have any questions I'll move the border to carroll county? We haven't.

C

Had it here yet: okay, I'm sorry. Do we have any questions and then see if there's anybody in.

A

The public to discuss is there. Anybody here is anybody on the phone chris. I have no callers. Okay,.

A

Now, with that said, unless there's any questions.

C

No, I don't have it. I think that you know presentation was good, it was, you know.

C

I had no questions after I reviewed it as well, so I think we're good to go so.

C

So if you want to go with it weaver that would be the time now. It's your turn.

N

Go ahead chris or dick go ahead. Do you want you want me, no go ahead. You.

A

You county commissioners close to carrying leaves the record open for 10 days. Is it necessary to open it for 10 days.

C

Legally, no, I mean, I can't imagine, can we go forth and and yes and discharge eliminate.

C

To my knowledge, there's no requirement that you hold it for 10 days. We typically do that, but in my.

M

Experience with these types of proceedings related to the financial assurance plan, we've never had.

M

Any public comments on this in the years past, so if you wanted to move to approve it at this point,.

M

um That would save us a a short visit in two weeks with you. Okay, thanks chris, I will mend my.

A

Motion to move that the board of accounting commissioners approve, as discussed well.

K

A

Apologize for your clunkiness on that. Okay, any further discussion, all in favor.

A

Aye. Thank you all right. Thank you very much. Well, that was tough to get through I'll. Take.

B

It personal we didn't: okay, let's request approval to update carroll county board of.

A

Licensed commissioners, rules and regulations and approval for three pieces of legislation.

A

Gentlemen morning, chairman browning good morning, commissioners, mrs windham and.

O

The honorable, mr burke, seriously wait: what did you have to go there? Wait? What did you really.

A

Have to go there just two comments. First of all, uh happy birthday, uh commissioner: lance.

O

And commissioner rothstein, let it be known that that photo may say he's five eight when he is.

O

The drum major of the westminster band he's a full six feet because he has padding in his hat.

O

And now I understand why commissioner fraser is a excellent, well-known wrestling.

O

Coach, he makes all the kids run all over south. That's right! He's carroll county.

O

I'm amazed with the photos that were here this morning that we didn't have.

O

One of commissioner boucher's halloween costumes, probably were rather risque. Maybe.

O

Knowing him, yes, what are you saying you got to say something now about you know, don't leave them out.

O

Commissioner, weaver is a long time personal friend and uh his son, and I have been in uh several joint.

O

Ventures together, so I have nothing but praise to say for that. Commissioner weaver. Thank you dave.

N

Give them the five bucks later he's buying you lunch. Okay, mr browning, it's on you, gentlemen,.

O

Thank you all very much for your support. I have with me today our chief inspector keith benfer, on.

O

My left and another member of the board of license commissioners of carroll county, mr george barnhart.

O

Quick background laws, change court cases, change communities, change so periodically.

O

The rules and regulations of the board of licensed commissioners for alcoholic beverages for carroll.

O

County need to be changed. I think you all have been provided a copy of the changes. Yes,.

O

90 percent of the changes in our carroll county regulations, our basic house, cleaning changes.

O

Where the word p, p, humanity, pecuniary pecuniary is shown. We have changed that to financial.

O

None of us, including george george harmoning, the other commissioner, can pronounce it properly so.

G

It's good enough reason for me a reason to get it early. It was a month. That's the hard one in there.

O

Esteemed turdy, mr dixon, he kind of smiles when he does it too so anyway, about 90 percent of it.

O

Otherwise, the main changes to our rules and regulations and before I I go over them with.

O

You briefly our procedure for this change. Was the commission had a meeting with interested.

O

Parties, attorneys uh beverage holders license holders and so on and so forth and we came up.

O

With a general discussion of proposed changes with all of those in attendance,.

O

And after that, then we made the proposed changes before we had a public hearing. Our public hearing.

O

Had as much opposition at that time, as what you just witnessed with your previous subject, okay.

O

Rule 15 is adding a 50 today penalty for renewal application taxes that are not paid on time.

O

Background we get people to come in on the last day to renew their license if they're.

O

Late, there's a 50 a day, charge they'll come in the last day and there may be a hold from the state.

O

For some unknown reason- and you all are more familiar with operating through the state than.

O

What I am they can put papers underneath of a file when it could stay there forever when there.

O

Is really no need for that violation that the taxes have been paid or whatever the situation has.

O

Occurred that has been satisfied. However, we are changing to a suspension hearing as the wording.

O

Existing refers to a revocation hearing on renewal, we're changing that to suspension. You may be aware.

O

That a revocation means that that licensee can never hold a license again or that establishment.

O

Whereas a suspension is, we can have a hearing and take necessary action rather than revoking.

O

The license I apologize just to make sure we're all clear, page, seven rule 15 right, hotel, okay,.

O

Rule 20 is counting bar seats to a total amount of seats. This is one of the things that we need.

O

State legislation for where and I'll expand upon that later we're changing rule 24 to.

O

Say that off-duty employees and patrons need to be out of the establishment at the closing time.

O

Rule 28 is simply updating our music noise rules to match whatever the counties are.

O

Rule 33 is making a new category for breweries. As you probably know, breweries are pretty much.

O

Governed by state law, they have to have a county license, but.

O

We can't supersede anything that the state says here again is under rule 40. It also.

O

Refers to the 50 day penalty for renewal applicants, taxes that are not paid on time.

O

Rule 57 we're requiring residents and liquor stores to be open five days a week.

O

Basically, they are the questions.

O

Other than I mentioned housekeeping rules, there have been some court cases that have been.

O

Tried referring to residencies of a specific time, taxpayer a resident and oak property owner in the.

O

Jurisdiction, that's all been struck down by court rulings and that's all been removed.

O

From our regulations, basically, there are the changes to carroll county rules and regulations.

A

The um the town ordinance the 10 p.m, to 7 a.m. That does not mean that they cannot have music it just.

A

Means that the music that they do have cannot disturb the community outside of that facility. I.

A

Mean yes, in other words, it's kind of like the good neighbors act. You know, basically, that's right so.

A

Because I don't want people to interpret this saying that music has to shut down at you know.

A

um 10 p.m, and that's not the case. That's not the case. Turn the volume down a little.

A

Bit but our rules reflect whatever carroll county's rule is for noise. Yep no makes that.

A

Makes sense and then the the 30 hours five days well, it was just 30 hours before not.

A

Saying five days so now you're specifying that five days you have to be five days. Yes, sir, okay.

C

That that class db, that breweries get that comes from the state right right right. That's.

O

That's why I mentioned it: we're pretty much governed by state laws. Okay, they are pretty.

N

Much yeah class d license is class d licenses is um by population, so every 5 000 people in.

N

A district can have one class d license by us taking the brewers and making a separate.

N

License out of it, it takes that way from the fi from the other five thousand gotcha. Okay, now.

N

We could have three or four breweries in westminster: okay, where we could have some.

N

Places we could only have wine and we have one. No one else could go in there now allowing patients.

N

To have a state license when a lot of breweries go into a different location makes sense, because.

C

That's a it's big business right now, so yeah, yeah, okay and frederick county is booming right now, in.

A

Frederick city yeah, okay: well, we probably have uh two of the most outstanding outfits in the state.

O

In my opinion, which is 1623 brewery in eldersburg, and also uh mr stambaugh and union bridge with.

O

With his uh establishment up there and there there are others too- that are are really good and and.

O

You probably remember just recently, I think in the paper, the uh and so forth, so they're they're.

O

Numerous ones and they keep sprouting up for homebrew and so on and so forth. So yeah, okay, it's.

O

Good for them, it's good for the public. Mr weaver, we'll agree. It's good for agriculture, so oh yeah.

O

Absolutely okay, a lot of rye and corn goes into those products and borrowing. Sorry.

N

Okay with that I'd like to move the border, commissioners approve the changes to the.

D

Rules and regulations of the board of licensed commissioners to approve the submission of the.

D

Three pieces of legislation to then be presented to the carroll county delegation. I will second.

B

That also on a state that I very much appreciate the reform initiative of the commissioners on this.

B

We took the time doing their tenure to go through and look at a lot of rare fees and services and.

B

Updated them and to see you all do the same thing is very admirable. Thank you very much.

A

Okay, any further discussion seen here: none all in favor, aye, aye, okay,.

N

Okay, thank you. Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you all very much and we appreciate your support.

O

I too want to thank and congratulate the veterans organization at carroll county. We, as you begin.

O

Your meetings, we have for a long standing time as the board of license commissioners honored them.

O

Also, with mama songs appreciate that. Thank you. Thank you all very much and have a nice day. Thank.

O

You as well, I think I'll, be seeing more of this later public hearing regarding a text. Amendment.

A

To the employment campus district to allow solar energy conversion facilities, ms eisenberg.

P

Nurse I'm going to be here for a while this morning, agenda relax settle down.

P

Fine. Thank you. I appreciate that we'll see if we're fine after get through with us.

P

So we are before you this morning for a public hearing for a zoning.

P

Text amendment for the allowance of ground-mounted solar energy conversion facilities, unemployment, campus zone land.

P

Public public hearing was published twice in the carroll county times on.

P

October 20th and october 27th for the public hearing this morning.

P

And the request of the text amendment is to allow for ground mounted solar energy.

P

Conversion facilities within the employment campus district, I supplied a picture of what.

P

That looks like I know there were some questions last time about what is ground mounted solar.

P

um This was referred by this body on august 4th to the planning commission planning.

P

Commission discussed this after august and september meetings and referred a favorable.

P

Recommendation for adoption back to the board of county commissioners on september 20th.

P

The recommended changes are for solar energy conversion facilities to have allow ground mounted.

P

Which is the yellow highlighted solar energy conversion facilities may be approved as part.

P

Of and then the new languages or separate from the development plan pending conditional use approval.

P

The ground-mounted solar field may be no more than 25 acres in size and not to exceed 50 percent of.

P

The total gross acreage, or whatever is lesser. I know there was some discussion about. Maybe the.

P

Confusion with that, but this is how the um notice was sent out prior, so that language did not change.

P

So if that is a point of additional clarification that can happen after the public hearing.

P

um Roof mounted solar energy facilities may be approved as part of the development plan. Subject.

P

To the requirements of 158 153 or mounted on a canopy in a parking area, that language was.

P

Already there that's not new language, that's part of the employment campus as it currently stands,.

P

So again um in the use table, this would go from.

P

A prohibited use in the employment campus to a conditional use approval.

P

um Again then, we had to also make amendments to 158 153, about solar energy, generating.

P

Systems and the new languages, employment, campus districts is the addition uh to.

P

um That above paragraph and then there should be a size limit for systems in the employment.

P

Campus district to be no more than that 25 acres or 50 percent of the gross site.

P

Whichever is lesser and again, I know um there was some discussion about that language, which.

P

We can amend if so after the public hearing when we come for discussion and decision.

P

um So that's all I have to brief you on um for what is being heard today. I have scott graf with.

P

The bureau of public works with us. He and jason green brought the suggestion uh to you all to make.

P

The decision to send into planning commission so if there's any other details, you'd like to fill in.

P

And jason's here now are there um height restrictions on ground mounted.

P

um We don't have height restrictions on them. I don't know what the industry standard is.

P

For height we don't have height restrictions specifically for those okay, I'm just yes, ma'am.

D

10 feet 15 feet 15 feet; okay, thank you, jay that was dave. Voit our zone.

P

Administrator arizona, administrator, jay voight said 15 feet. [Laughter].

A

Just with them being up to 15 feet can um things be stored underneath the panels or.

A

We've got the solar experts, I'd ask jason and scott if they could come up and talk about.

A

How to maximum background property or jay, if jay has any insight yeah just uh specifically.

Q

With solar panels themselves, I mean typically when they're in the ground mounted type they're out in.

Q

In the middle of a field, so there's a maintenance requirement. There are certain clearances and.

Q

Stuff, you need for the infrastructure underneath such as the electricity and things like that. So.

Q

um You know you wouldn't want to store any obviously hazardous material underneath them.

Q

And things like that, but these this type, unless it's a parking canopy.

Q

um You know there are opportunities for those on parking lots and things like that.

Q

To use them to shield some of our uh some of those things, but that's not this application.

F

Was this small community solo where you could have like grazing and things right.

R

Some certain grazing animals and stuff like that we talked about not jokes.

A

um Okay, I apologize ma'am. You have a comment on this: we're going to have a public hearing.

A

Okay, okay, just give us a second so where, where else are you linda with us.

P

Time, that's it so it's time for so again we're we're having our public hearing now right.

P

A legislative not a um quasi-judicial right: we can keep the record open for 10 days and no second.

P

Of uh discussion last time, um and then we have discussion decision uh scheduled for november 17th.

A

Okay, so any other questions directly to linda okay, now the public hearing are.

A

There public comments. Do you have comment cards? Well, so that's I was going to ask.

P

um If you wanted to commence the public hearing, ask anyone who wants to make a.

S

Payment to fill out the card for this or does anyone have any public comment.

T

Well, you're with um you hit the microphone this is being recorded so.

T

Fanny dorsey road in sykesville and I know a little bit about the energy conservation and.

T

The energy generating systems because one has been proposed for across the street, from where I live.

T

So my wanting to make a mention about grazing underneath 15 foot, that's like highly unlikely.

T

um I have, I have goats in my barn, we have animals that cross the road and it's very unlikely that.

T

They would be grazing underneath underneath the shoulders because they would be afraid of the.

T

Noise of what's happening, I know that I have deer that come across by land and they wouldn't even be.

T

Able to go into the community because you have to have a fence around it. So there's a lot of.

T

Questions about how you do grazing underneath these facilities now my question.

T

That I had is I'm not familiar with what the term educational does that.

T

Mean that this is on campus educate or employment, employment, employment.

C

Okay, employment campus: they call it a campus. Is it near schools yeah? This is.

P

This in our code, so they we have them, spread throughout the county. Okay, are these, like light.

T

Industry kind of thing the host of uses can be light. Industry can have private educational.

P

Facilities on the pen have certain types of recreation can even have a certain percentage.

P

Of residential uses, okay, I live um near claysmail, so I went down please mill to try to see where the.

T

Facility was going to be proposed for and I didn't see any signs. Maybe I didn't go far enough down.

T

But I noticed that there was light industry. You know what I would call you know some development.

T

Stuff, but directly across the street and sometimes adjacent to wore residences were and land, and I.

T

Saw part of the residential area that actually had small crops growing on it like there was a.

T

Field with some some core and growing and stuff, so my question was: what do you? How is this different.

T

This text amendment different than the one that works with the agricultural zones. Now I have a.

T

Copy of the text amendment and I've read it and some of you I've talked to you before about it.

T

But so that's my question: how is it different? This is a public hearing yeah. um So really what.

A

We're doing is we're taking information in at this time. Okay, so it's not to have the dialogue back.

A

And forth, but to take information and concerns now and and you're okay, you're doing well you're.

A

Doing you're you're you're asking the right questions and that's that's good to allow us to.

A

Have further conversation with our staff amongst ourselves after public hearing, we keep it open.

A

To deliberate and then come back with our decisions moving forward. Well, I guess my public.

T

Comments would be something like I wonder what the people who live uh adjoining or adjacent to.

T

um The the solar energy systems that are going to be put up- I know um in our neighborhood that the.

T

The neighborhood that's looking at one, that is on agricultural zones and it it was changed. The.

T

The implementation for the solar passed this five-member council back a year ago may in 21.

T

um So I'm just wondering how those people would feel. I know our community is adamantly opposed.

T

But it's an indo, it is not an industrial or or employment, it is residences and it is farmland.

T

So maybe the nuance is different in terms of the public. That's living next to the.

T

Solar facility, 99.9 percent of the 160 uh names that I have on a position on a.

T

Petition against it are opposed to the solar facility, so I'm speaking from the viewpoint.

T

Of the residential areas and the people that go up and down the road there, they.

T

Are against it, so I think you need to take some some comment and some some from the people that.

T

Are going to be living next to it? Absolutely, and I appreciate that I appreciate your comments and.

A

um What you've prepared and gathered for information again? It allows us to.

A

Understand the situation best, um you know because we want to serve the community best and then what.

A

We'll end up having just for you to understand, will close the public hearing we'll have 10 days.

A

And then we'll come back right now, scheduled for november 17th to either further discuss and or.

A

Make a decision- oh okay, okay! I have one question: is there an address at the please mail that I.

T

Could look at, I know, there's an address on route 140.. I wonder if it was near the dump, so this is.

A

Not about a specific area- oh okay, this is actually about allowing solar in these type of zoned areas.

A

So it really would be unfair to say this one point now understanding what address you're looking at.

A

How that is specifically zoned, that's something that ms eisenberg can help you with afterwards.

T

Okay, okay, all right that'd be great! Thank you! So much yes, ma'am now it just brings up a question.

D

On this, if I may, uh in employment campus, you wouldn't allow grazing under these. Would you.

U

Are there that would not be there's any prohibition? I.

V

You would because agriculture is a use, that's permitted all learning districts.

W

So if somebody wanted to do some grazing or have some.

W

Facilities- theoretically, they could do that. Yes, okay, so I just want to capture again.

A

I apologize uh you try not to be so clunky in doing this, but uh mr voigt shared that creating.

A

Would be allowed if um there are obviously animals, because agricultural animals can be.

A

On any of these premises, so zone darius and keep in mind sheep are the primary. What.

D

Would be primarily talking about because uh the others can destroy those areas. But again that's.

A

Not regarding this issue right now, so, okay and we'll capture man, we'll capture your public.

A

Comments and whatever you want to provide um and then further discussion with linda more than happy.

A

um Are there any other public comments in the room? I I don't have anyone that's why I was.

P

Hoping people would fill the cards out if they had a public comment to make and for the other.

P

Public hearing, if you have a comment, please fill out the comment card and you can get it to myself.

P

Or miss windham and we can um call the names okay, so yeah just get with her afterwards, but.

A

Then chris is there anybody on the phone? I have no public commenters. However, if linda could close the.

X

Presentation when we're going through these public hearings, so that we can show the timer for public.

X

Comment, thank you. Okay, all good was that said. Do I have a motion I'll make the motion the board.

G

Of county commissioners closed the public hearing, but keep the record open for a period of 10 days.

C

Second, I got a motion. I have a second any further discussion, all in favor, aye, aye, aye, okay,.

A

Thank you very much linda. You now like to talk about the adoption.

A

Of comprehensive rezoning, agricultural and conservation zoning districts text amendments no.

G

Public hearing requiring a text amendment to I-1, c3 districts, correct.

P

Correct: okay, okay, public hearing.

P

Hearing is a time for testimony from the public, so anyone that wishes to speak and.

P

Give a comment: please fill out the comment card, so we can have that information and we.

P

Will set a three minute timer, not that you know if you want to go over, that is.

P

Your decision just so we can keep this in an orderly manner and again it's not a time for.

P

Question and answer and discussion once the public hearing commences it's just a time for testimony.

P

um This isn't our first time here with the board of county commissioners on this request again, as.

P

With the last public hearing, notice was given in carroll county times as we're required to.

P

Do on october october, 20th and october 27th, this is for a text. Amendment request for the.

P

Industrial one industrial light district and the commercial high or c3 district. There are multiple.

P

Requests which I will go over in my presentation, this information has been posted on our website.

P

And available for public distribution and public viewing for several months now, as you recall, we.

P

Came before you on august 4th having a discussion about this very lengthy text. Amendment proposal.

P

um And you referred it to the planning and zoning commission with very specific instructions.

P

To them, this was discussed at the planning commission meetings in august and september.

P

And they referred back to you with a favorable recommendation on september 20th and I'll go.

P

Over those recommendations, so there is a lot that was requested in this particular text. Amendment.

P

Specifically, the first portion is pertaining to the business industrial park in the I-1 district.

P

Because of how we revised the industrial, restricted and industrial general districts.

P

With the comprehensive code revisions, we created a new I-1 district and a new i2.

P

In the new I-1 district there was the elimination of the business slash industrial park and those.

P

Became now referred to as industrial parks, however, we already had one business slash industrial park.

P

Operating in the county and the decision was made with that code, amendment to grandfather.

P

In that particular use on that particular property because they were the only one like it so because.

P

Of that, when we did the comprehensive zoning text amendment for those districts originally because.

P

There was only one, no definition was included, so the proposal is to include now a specific.

P

Definition, just for posterity's sake to put in the business industrial park defined as a project.

P

Development approved under the business park provisions and effect prior to april 1st 2019.

P

The next recommended change is for self-storage facilities that they would not be part of the.

P

Commercial use calculation in those districts currently there's a balance between industrial.

P

Uses and commercial uses in those districts that have a calculation ratio but certain uses within.

P

That are not part of that ratio and the request is to have self storage facilities, not part of that.

P

Calculation ratio- currently medical and dental centers are exempt, but now the request is for.

P

The inclusion of self storage facilities, as you can see in the yellow, highlight that's underlined.

P

Will not otherwise permitted in the I-1 district shall be committed in a business industrial park.

P

And shall not be included in the calculator. That's supposed to be like a number two and not included.

P

In the calculation of commercial uses, which are otherwise not permitted in the I-1 district, so.

P

Again, they would be without limitation. Secondly, self storage facilities shall be regulated by the.

P

Requirements of section 158079, which shall prevail over any conflict or inconsistency,.

P

With any other provisions required pursuant to the chapter, the requirement of section 158158.

P

Should not apply to soft storage facilities developed within a business industrial park.

P

Next is to create parking requirements for self storage in the park. Currently, it's a formula of.

P

The various types of uses within those parks, so to be more specific for the self storage, is to have.

P

An average of 3.5 parking spaces per 1000 square feet of the building area shall be provided for.

P

Lots within the business park, with the exception of self-storage facilities, which shall require two.

P

Parking spaces for employees and the greater of one parking space for each 20 000 square feet of.

P

Building area or five spaces, the minimum number of spaces, as required hearing and any modifications.

P

To parking space design standards, as previously approved, approved by the planning commission.

P

During the site development plan, approval of the business industrial park shall supersede any.

P

Parking requirements and design standards of this chapter of chapter 155. so again creating these.

P

Standards: next, the request for this district was to modify sign requirements to have, in addition to.

P

The signage allowed by section 158 each building lot or lots within the business park may have.

P

Signs in accordance with 158-114 ., so now um the final with the business industrial park is allow.

P

Yards on both sides of the interior lot line may be zero and planning commission may reduce.

P

Other yard requirements adding new language that, where the zero yard is proposed, setbacks buffers.

P

And or landscape screaming requirement shall not be applicable so meaning not for external.

P

Boundaries to a particular property, but the internal lot lines for these types of parks are.

P

Not subject to those landscaping requirements so be more explicit about. That is the request.

P

Okay, now I'm moving from the industrial business park, which is again not one particular property.

P

That one particular use in the current uh i1 zone, we have what's called an industrial park.

P

And um the suggested recommended changes. Currently we allow ten thousand square foot of retail space.

P

To increase the size allowance from 10 000 to 25 000 square feet allow medical and dental without.

P

Limitations, allow parks to be subdivided in our current code. We do not allow subdivision of parks.

P

So the language would be an industrial park shall be permitted to subdivide at the option.

P

Of the developer and subject to all applicable requirements in chapter 155 related to subdivision.

P

And again, as we said with the self storage and the parking standards in the business.

P

Industrial park again, the creation of parking standards for the industrial park.

P

So that way, there's not this crazy calculation of looking what the different types of uses.

P

Are figuring out based on that making it a comprehensive parking requirement.

P

um And then, finally, this is for the flip side, so industrial zones we.

P

Have industrial parks and the c3 district? We have a business park.

P

So again, this is business park shall be permitted to subdivide at the option of the developer and.

P

She'll be subject to all requirements in chapter 155 related to subdivision so again, keeping.

P

This similar to the industrial park allowance allowing that same thing within the business park.

P

um And again creating parking requirements for the business park and allowing that at that 3.5.

P

As opposed to the 2.3, giving that this is more of a commercial type district, so more parking.

P

May be required um because of the service and commercial nature of the business park.

P

um And then just quick tables comparing um the three different types. So we have the business.

P

Industrial park no longer the business park moving forward in the industrial park moving forward.

P

um These are what's currently allowed in each and the use is permitted. The red is the new use or.

P

Change to the district, so for here, as you can see in the table, that's at 25 000 square feet, increase.

P

On the restrictions lifted, first part of the percentage calculation for the.

P

Self-Storage facilities in the business industrial.

P

Park and the medical and dental facilities in the industrial park.

P

um The creation of parking requirements and each of the types of parks.

P

In the business industrial park, clarification regarding the additional signs for each use.

P

Allowing subdivision of the commercial I mean of the industrial park and the business park and then.

P

uh For just miscellaneous self storage facilities and the partial nappy regulated by the section of.

P

The requirements in 158 158 and then the other two requirements, which would be the exact same.

P

For both the business park and the industrial park for um where a zero yard is proposed at an.

P

Interior line set back buffers and landscaping. Screening requirements shall not be applicable.

P

So that is all the changes that are being proposed again, as with the last public hearing, this is our.

P

Public hearing and time to take public comment um because it's legislative again, we would keep the.

P

Record open for 10 days and we'll be back before you on november 17th for discussion and decision.

A

Okay, thanks for the presentation, do we have any public comments on the phone chris.

X

Yes, sir, okay, do we have any public comments in the room.

A

Okay, let's limit this to two minutes 30 seconds good good morning, commissioners, good morning.

L

um This is, this sounds complicated. We know who you are. Would you mind the clark schaefer uh sorry.

L

um This sounds complicated, but it it really isn't that complicated. uh What.

L

This is, is it's an adjustment to carroll county's, carve outs for these kind of parks.

L

And I I'm familiar with the history of this. What happened is there? Was industrial zones.

L

I and I I won an i2 and they had a bunch of listing. I mean they were primarily manufacturing.

L

And I too got heavy industrial and then the county figured out many many years ago that they needed.

L

To carve out these park lake provisions from these industrial districts- and it's been very.

L

Successful liberty exchange would not be there if there wasn't this car about now. The carve.

L

Out the county chose was to was to say, if you do, one of these parks, which requires a.

L

Huge capital, investment long-range planning and a coordinated development. We will loosen up our.

L

Industrial, our tight industrial zone and allow some some commercial service uses in there and.

L

As I say, it's been very successful, the uses are compatible, the marketing has been people have.

L

Invested people have spent money, people have created jobs, people have paid taxes, and so.

L

What this is is saint john, who I represent. They have a lot of experience here and in other areas.

L

And they are asking for a couple tweaks now. A lot of these are housekeeping and linda dutifully and.

L

Properly went over every detail, but really what we're talking about here are we're looking to.

L

Add medical dental centers they're not ad, but allow medical dental centers without counting.

L

Against the sort of the ratio, now, what's the rationale for that? Well, the rationale is this.

L

They are compatible uses, they are needed services and they provide good jobs. Why not encourage them.

L

Why not allow them and they fit with regard to the uh the self storage which I know, I think has been.

L

A lot of misunderstandings: this is not a text amendment that allows self-storage where it's.

L

Not already allowed it's already allowed. Okay, what this does is is uh adjust the parking regs for it.

L

And I'll talk about that in a minute, but what it does is says it. If you do sell storage it doesn't.

L

Count against your ratio of retail service stuff and the rationale for that is they these uses.

L

Which, in in what we contemplate, are the office building climate controlled type thing? These.

L

Uses are more like warehouses than they are like convenience stores, they use very few services and.

L

They pay commercial industrial tax rates, a home run in a lot of respects. So why not uh encourage.

L

Them they already are allowed the ten thousand to twenty five thousand foot square footage.

L

That allows a specialty grocery store to perhaps, whereas at ten thousand you're not going to get.

L

Anything like that so and they're compatible the parking. I think- and everybody agrees.

L

I think I haven't heard negative comments from staff or anybody else. It works and right now.

L

There are no well right now the parking regs for self storage or for these, these parks is.

L

You look at each use, you look at the chart and then you go well that use has x bases this use.

L

It doesn't work for a park. Okay, you need a two point. You know you need a uniform standard for.

L

A park because all those uses are in one area, you and it's practically impossible, because when.

L

You get your parking when you get your site plan approved, you don't know what your uses are going.

L

To be you don't know if you're going to have a medical, dental or a rite aid or a an electrical.

L

uh Contractor so you need this 2.5 per that we and and by the way, one of the self-protective.

L

uh Sort of elements to this thing is, I don't think, st john or any any developer. That does.

L

These would be proposing a a standard that would have a sub that would create a substandard park.

L

They've got a lease finish. Your thoughts they've got to go. This comes to you with an.

L

Unanimous recommendation from the planning commission and I do not- and I also submit.

L

To you that, if your economic development director thought that this was going to.

L

Be bad for the industrial park business in or business park, business in carroll, county.

L

He would have said so and he he hasn't said so. In fact, we've met with him. He's supportive.

L

Of it, so we would appreciate your support. Thank you. Thank you. Any other uh comments.

A

C

I'll make the motion we close the public hearing and keep the record open for 10 days. Okay, again is.

A

There a reason to keep it open. Yes, yes, legally, you have legally for this. You have to it's legislative.

C

Got it okay, any further discussion seen here, none all in favor, all right! Okay, thank you.

A

Okay, linda you're, two for two.

A

Adoption comprehensive rezoning agricultural conservation, zoning districts.

A

Text amendments we talked about this before just kidding, go ahead.

P

Wonderful work session with uh you all on tuesday, um we really appreciate all the comments and.

P

Insight we prepared legislation for your final review and we're here for your discussion and.

P

Decision, hopefully, on the recommended changes to the agricultural zoning district, as well as the.

P

Conservation, zoning district, as you know, this has been years and years and years in the making for.

P

The entire comprehensive code revisions and we've been working non-stop for the last 12 to 13 months.

P

With the agriculture agricultural conservation work group, our internal concept, team planning.

P

Commission and various works many many work sessions with you so with that I'm going to turn.

P

It over to mary to if there's any other, additional questions that you need to have discussed.

Y

Go ahead mayor no really just here to answer questions we made the changes, the specific.

Y

Change to ag remaining portions that was discussed on tuesday. You should have that in front of you.

Y

uh There we go, could we see that language, please and also the decisions that we made.

A

On tuesday, during the work session, are they bonding binding or can they be modified.

Y

It could be modified. This is this is your opportunity. This is our chance to do that. Okay,.

G

um I think anyone would but wait for it.

A

I need commissioner west to how long have you worked with me now. I need commitments to convince me.

F

ah You want to go down to the center, just go to that specific. Just just go to the end, where.

C

We we had the tiered concept approach that we discussed for a lengthy period of time, yeah and.

A

I will share before you're going to convince me. Is I really appreciate the conversation tuesday.

A

That was probably one of the best collegial discussions that we had back and forth.

A

um Yeah, that means a lot in our community and uh I really respected it a whole lot. I walked out of.

A

There, although maybe not agreeing with everything but really believed that was very well done so.

A

But now convince me well, no, I I don't you know, I don't know if it's up to me to convince you, but.

C

uh You know again, I I will. I will echo your your thoughts on that we had some really good.

C

Discussions and I will also echo the fact that there were some great discussions at.

C

The planning and zoning commission as well, uh I can't keep. I don't- want to keep beating that.

C

Message but man it's it's, it's really good to have somebody. You know from this group sitting there.

C

uh To to be able to hear what those discussions are, we hear what they say.

C

But yet it's understood more when someone can say yeah, but what they really meant to say was so it.

C

Just I think, that's a great way to do it. uh You all heard what I had to say uh at the work session.

C

I'm still challenged by the fact that a lot of our agricultural community folks uh we're in favor of.

C

Of the one and done method, if you will, uh because a lot of our agricultural land is is, is not being.

C

Used for the intent that it was designed or the intent as to why it was there in the first place,.

C

And that's why I had for those that didn't watch the the uh the work session. That's why I do agree.

C

With the tiered approach, I do, I think, that's a good way in which to reach that happy medium. If.

C

You will and allow for those that that do want to do us something additional, but yet respect.

C

What our heritage, or whatever, is when it comes to ag land, so I had made the recommendation that.

C

Yes, the tiered approach is good, but I didn't like the zero to 20 acres. I wanted to do zero.

C

To forty, is that what I said for one and then over 42.- uh and I thought that gave that kind of.

C

um Balance that the balance, if you will between our ag community and those that feel so strongly.

C

About it and the ability for folks that want to do something with their ag land, if they're.

C

If they so desire to do to do that, the ability to do something with it and not while still.

C

Respecting property rights, because from the first day I sat here, I made mention about.

C

Property rights which are very important to me, so I think that would have reached a happy medium. I.

C

I think this is a little high and I don't like um that. Additional usage, so yeah dick you and I.

C

uh Kind of agreed at the work session on that. uh Well, I'm respectful of our ag community because.

C

I've probably got the biggest ag district in the county, so yeah like your idea, uh coming.

D

Up on this, because what we don't want is to have um basically a commercial zone in those.

D

Ag remainders, but this does give us a little. You had a good compromise I'll give you that.

D

And I want to go back to your workshops when you started this and uh price, I think you were.

D

Probably ahead on all that, you did a great job through the workshops getting this to this point.

D

And I'm in favor of everything, except for this one little glitch. I would like to see change.

D

To commissioner lance's thought on it, and this could go through very easily, I think so. The.

A

And I appreciate the concern I have you know they're not well what I'm thinking through.

A

Is one is absolutely property owner rights? I want to keep them and if they have the ability.

A

You know to do what's what they want to do on their property, that that's, first and foremost,.

A

In my mind, but I'm also thinking and bouncing it with the economics in the county, it gives another.

A

Opportunity to grow the county without overgrowing the county.

A

um And that's why I was thinking about these numbers was one additional. Would.

A

Be an additional economic, you know uh opportunity, um but I don't I don't thinking through that. I'm.

A

I'm having tough time chewing on that, you know to be honest,.

A

You know it's, uh we have designated growth areas for a reason um we have growth happening, the.

A

Impact that this would have on revenue coming into the county would probably be minimal if we.

A

Went up to three and as opposed to keeping it at two, um so I'm kind of having that you know.

A

Over the last few days, thinking through this, so okay with that go ahead, josh go ahead, go ahead.

C

I knew this I gotta get this debate in here. This is good, go go ahead. First, these are ag remainers.

G

No one is, is forced to do anything additionally on those agreementers people own them, but they.

G

Want to farm and so forth, they're welcome to do that. No one's going to stop them from doing that.

G

Secondly, even with the tiered approach, that's up there on the screen right now, we've already.

G

Restricted what can be done on the ag remainders if we make this change that that's up there right.

G

Now I am not in favor of restrictions any more than that. I think this is a good good compromise.

G

I I 80 some percent will be in the one or two additional uses. I can't remember exact.

G

Number to have in front of 80 some percent will be in there's one or two uses. That's it.

G

And I'm not and why I am looking at the county. I think it's it would help the county, but that's not.

G

The main reason I like this better is because the people that have owned these properties, I believe.

G

This went into effect in the 70s or something with that effect where they had more rights.

G

For their own property, that's why I think this is restricting someone and it is.

G

But it still gives them some use of that property if they want to take this particular use. But it.

D

Does it does step it back, say it again still have two or three additional rights on this.

D

Yeah and count the original one day on it, yeah not the original. It would be three under what.

C

I'm proposing right would be the original is the residential lot right. That's one! That's.

K

Plus two others and this way up to 42 over 43.. So if still, you would still have gotten.

C

Three shots at the apple. If you will wow correct and keep in mind, this is the ground.

C

This is agriculture yeah one residential, two non yeah and I think two non is enough.

G

I would say to commissioner weavers mark this is not commercials agricultural, it is no one's.

G

Forcing them to do anything on this land, but they can, if they want to keep it agriculture.

G

That's that's the one of the things I keep going back to no one said: okay, you have to develop this.

G

You have to put three uses on this, because no you don't have to do that if you want to keep.

G

Farming then farm it there's nothing wrong with that or lease it out or. However, you want to do it.

G

But this gives them an opportunity to use that land for other ways and they've had that right.

G

Since the 70s, I don't think we should take more of that away than we are in this table right here.

D

If this might develop, then they can. It requested something change and go to commercial or whatever.

D

That's still an option. What I mean it's not because again, you know, as we know, we've seen.

P

Two rezoning requests come through, the bar is high for just a request. We don't request.

P

In grand zonings- and I mean that's just but comprehensively yeah- some good master plans.

P

Change and change the nature of the ags that could happen for some particular parcels in.

P

The future, I I don't know it depends on what a new plan would say. My point is just to say: I want to.

P

Resend, a commercial and that's not how the system works, that that likelihood would be small right.

D

Yeah, oh I'd like to move that we follow commit uh commissioner lance's recommendation on the tiers.

A

Which is one one up to 40 acres; go ahead up to 41 and over 42. uses.

F

The 40 acres you'd get one additional more than 48. More than 40 you'd get two.

D

Which is a lot.

D

So I have a motion on the floor. That's modifying this one two and three to one and two.

C

Well, obviously, I'm gonna second it okay! So now I have a motion. I have a second.

A

So uh any further discussion on this now other than the fact that say look I I.

C

I'm not going to lose any sleep over this, I'm not, uh but I'm very respectful of of what you're.

C

Saying- and I do appreciate that and yeah they, this gives them additional, but I think it also.

C

Makes a bold statement on how much we respect our our heritage when it comes to ag remainders.

C

Or whatever I mean it's, I just think it just it goes to that and I truly believe that there's not.

C

Going to be a lot of this anyway yeah, I just don't think that there's going to be so to your argument.

C

About the economics part of it, what it's going to be, if penny's on the dollar, if you will see the.

D

Original intent, yeah you're not you're, not going to see a broad, uh oh rush in now, but it goes back.

C

To the intent of what this was made for when we started this whole adventure in in this county and.

C

um You know the horror stories that we hear about other counties where they're.

C

I mean one of the counties you brought up to five. They can do five things or what that's just total.

C

But that's total right right, that's different! This is completely. This is completely. I know. Okay, yeah.

C

Okay, I don't want to get lost in the numbers. I got season math and you taught it so whatever so.

C

You know, I just think it for me I'm going to stop debating, but I just second that.

C

I just- and I want to say this I believe linda you, this was you pulled this out of this tiered.

C

Concept, if you will- and I think it's great and I I thank you for it- I think it just went.

C

A bit too far, in my opinion, but again I'm not going to lose sleep over.

C

So I will probably well I might but uh okay, we have a motion in a second for this to.

A

Be amended again from one two and three to one and two, as we've been discussing.

A

All in favor of the motion, all right.

A

Aye against oppose no okay, three two.

A

I mainly sleep over this okay. What else we want to talk about on this so now we need to.

P

um Adopt now the changes to 158 and then 155 with this amendment and then the adoption resolution.

P

So we need motions for you need three different motions, so I'll move that we.

C

Adopt the revisions to 155. as amended. Second, any discussion on that all in favor, aye, aye, aye.

C

Let me keep going sure I make the motion the motion. I make the motion that uh we adopt the.

C

Code revisions to chapter 158, as presented with the modification: no, no, that was in 150, that was.

C

One yeah, okay, okay, then I'll just stop at with the modifications as presented, promise yeah.

C

Second, okay, I got a second any discussion. All in favor, aye, aye,.

A

I apologize thanks, you're, good right, okay, yeah and then okay is there anything else.

P

On this, yes and the implementation resolution needs to be adopted as well.

P

um And that's simply stating that this will take effect on december 1st and anybody in the.

Y

Development, any property in the development review process is under the old provisions.

Y

We talked about it at the work session. That's the same resolution. We used for commercial, industrial.

Y

And residential right. So, if you're in the queue you're in the queue you're anywhere in the queue.

Y

At all, as of december 1st, as of december before december, 1st, your yep, but after december, the 1st.

C

uh I move that we go under the new code, adopt the implementation resolution as of december 1st I'll.

C

Make that motion, as stated okay, we've got a couple seconds all right, any discussion, all in favor, okay,.

A

Thank you uh you're welcome a lot of very good discussion. I'll share in a couple of uh you know.

A

um Whatever we call them topics agenda items, this is going to play I'll. Tell you that right now.

A

So yeah and we'll get to that. Okay, this one should.

A

Be relatively easy: let's go with the rezoning case: 227 mjy investments, llc.

P

um And this is just for your discussion and decision for this resilient case.

P

um With me is hannah weber for any additional questions. um The public hearing closed.

P

Two weeks ago and um you did receive some additional comments, but the record was closed.

P

um So now is the time to make a decision to rezone the property from agriculture, as it's.

P

Currently, zoned to commercial three, medium, medium, I'm sorry, c2 medium medium. Were there any comments.

A

That were made additional or no, there was no, no other. There was one. Wasn't there. Yes, but.

P

The record or two, but the record had closed today the hearings hearing so um was there.

A

Any additional conversation about this I mean I hadn't heard any, and you know, even though, when.

A

Things close, we still get phone calls and emails and texts, and all that kind of stuff that you know.

A

Are relevant um so I'm not sure why we would not move forward with this.

A

um I'll move the board of county commissioners approve the rezoning of rezoning.

A

Or the rezoning case numbers case number 227.

A

Mjy investments llc from agriculture c2, based on the mistake argument presented.

D

So, okay, I got a motion, I got a second. Is there any discussion on this? All in favor.

C

Aye aye aye. I know we should have done it 10 days ago. I know no, I I'm I'm fine with it and I want to.

C

You know, I appreciate the the comments and all that we have, but this this one, I believe is is.

C

A common sense uh decision, uh because of where it lies, and you know so.

A

Now the next one, the text, amendment, referral to the planning commercial centers section.

A

155.094, as I mentioned, I believe this is relevant to what we discussed.

A

Two agenda items or agenda item before dealing with concerns of overgrowth dealing with property.

A

Owners rights dealing with what makes the most common sense to keep carroll county the way we.

A

Want carroll county- and I appreciate uh you, know us bringing this forward. As we said, we.

A

Were going to with mr cormack, you know attention to this, um and now whether we want to bring this.

A

Back to the planning and zoning, because that's what this is about, referring to them, referring.

A

Back to them, just referring to them, not that um I just want to be clear that this is this proposal.

P

Is not in their purview right now right so right now! um This would be something for.

P

You to refer to them yeah, to to review them and make any recommended changes right. Okay,.

P

Okay and uh okay, um before we start on this chris, are there any comments or anybody on the phone.

X

I've got no one on the line. Okay is there anyone here that wants to comment on this? Okay.

Z

Hi, my name is bill mccormick. I live in eldersburg, um so when you guys uh approve to the current.

Z

Code for plant commercial centers, you guys use language that would allow discretion to be used.

Z

When these types of projects were submitted to the county, and I believe that you were deliberate and.

Z

Specific when you used that language to allow for discretion, uh the discretion does no good.

Z

If there are five unelected people, uh the board of zoning appeals who do not accurately represent the.

Z

Entirety of the community that can overrule the commissioners to pcc and the citizens of carroll.

Z

County, so all I'm asking you to is approve this referral to the planning and zoning commission.

Z

I'm looking for something that's more appealing to my surroundings. I'm not.

Z

Against growth, commissioner, I actually don't mind mixed use either. I I think the issue is with the.

Z

Overcrowding and the kind of piling on of a lot of new developments- and I I just don't believe these.

Z

Plant commercial centers fit with the surrounding areas. Some of you have said recently that the code.

Z

Should continue to be reviewed for improvements, that statement was made during a proposed change.

Z

From a developer, actually I think you guys just reviewed that today. I can only hope you feel the.

Z

Same about changes proposed by citizens, the fact that my petition has made it this far kind of.

Z

Makes me believe that you, you do feel the same way, and I really do appreciate you bringing this to.

Z

um To the point that it's at now, there is a clear consensus of the citizens.

Z

That do not believe playing commercial centers fit with the surrounding communities as written.

Z

In the code, this has been demonstrated by letters to you all and petitions, with hundreds of names on.

Z

Them that were completely ignored by the board of zoning appeals. The first plant commercial center.

Z

Was a mistake and they're in the process of making another bigger, just as unsightly.

Z

Mistake, please do not allow a third let the planning and zoning commission review this.

Z

Section of the code to ensure it is in line with the county's master plan of smart, measured growth.

Z

Thank you very much, absolutely thank you and uh not to unpack any of that.

A

Comments, because that would be unfair, except to say um that we do listen to the community or we.

A

Do as best, I can only speak for my colleagues and I um in moving forward and that's where.

A

We've gotten to uh whether we agree or not, but it's very important, that we have the ability.

A

To listen to the community and act on the best interests of our community, so do we have any.

A

Other public comments: yes kelly, schaefer miller yeah, so just thank you, mr mccormick.

AA

Yes, good morning, you could take three and a half minutes, since your dad only took two and a half.

AA

Okay, thank you kelly, schaefer miller here today on behalf of stavlas properties, I appreciate mr.

AA

Mccormick's ability uh to request this type of amendment to the code. Mr mccormick has been a.

AA

Vocal opponent in the stavlas approved site plan, which is currently in the midst of a circuit.

AA

Court appeal, I my brief comment here is that, as you are all well aware, because you are all very.

AA

Involved in the review of the comprehensive text amendment the plan commercial centers were carried.

AA

Over from the old code into that comprehensive text amendment and were carefully reviewed by.

AA

This uh this board of commissioners and planning commission during that process. They are restricted.

AA

To commercially zoned properties and they have an allowance for residential uses only on a second.

AA

Story so there are very limited instances and I think that was probably done at the intent of.

AA

This commission, where any residential opponent would be involved in these planned commercial.

AA

Centers there's no exemption for planned commercial centers to get out of other site plan.

AA

Requirements so school adequacy, all other adequate public facilities have to be approved as part of.

AA

That process as well, I I think that this is at a county-wide level. This is an inappropriate request.

AA

Of a text amendment this would not just impact one property. This would impact any commercial property.

AA

In the county, and so I do not believe that this is an appropriate request at this time. Thank you.

A

Okay, thank you. Are there any other public comments? Okay, this eisenberg this lane the floor is yours.

A

How many comments on this? Okay, so again I mean, uh let me just go over briefly there for the.

P

Viewing audience so, on october, 6th, a concerned citizen from the freedom married to come before.

P

The commissioners, during their public comment period, requesting that this particular section.

P

Which is 155094 referred to as planned commercial centers. This is not in the zoning code, but in the.

P

Subdivision portion um before to the planning commission for their review, specifically a.

P

Letter was sent by bill mccormick requesting the commission reviewed the allowance of the second.

P

Story residences and their associated densities. So specifically, if you were to refer this to.

P

The planning commission, our request, would be that you limit it to what the specific concern concern.

P

Is with the plan commercial center provision say that again, please, um our request would be that you.

P

Would end the entirety of playing commercial centers? Because if we.

P

Open up to playing commercial centers, that is, the commercial districts, are.

P

The only place to plan commercial sectors, plan commercial centers serve a purpose of having.

P

I guess strip malls or services within our commercial districts. This would be the only.

P

District to have them a planned commercial center simply means you can have multiple uses.

P

On a particular commercial site portion, I believe, and for my discussion with mr.

P

Mccormick that his concern was the residential second story component, specifically not playing.

P

Commercial centers in general, if we eliminate planned commercial centers in general, you would.

P

Be eliminating completely the use of having um you know, a multi-use commercial center, similar.

P

To what's here at the corner of 140 and center street, you would not be allowed to have those.

A

So go ahead so you're, so so you're suggesting if we do refer this, that only the that part of the.

C

Correct not not the whole thing, I'm sorry. If I may, um and that's similar to these text amendments for.

F

Which you had public hearings earlier today on the i1 and and c3 um when, when it was presented.

F

um At that time, when those requests were made, the board specifically referred just the topics that.

F

Were being requested, so the planning commission, if I'm not mistaken, narrowly narrowed their focus on.

F

Just those requests, so how do these requests fit in? uh You know to the overall uh and what impact.

F

Would they have so rather than opening the entire island? Well, you don't want to open up the aperture.

A

On the specific text amendment you wanted to be focused on this portion of, but but it's really.

A

Only one portion of the planning commercial centers correct: it's not planning commercial.

A

Centers correct it's the accessory use because that's what okay! So it's the.

A

Accessory yeah! Okay! Yes, so since this is since this particular case is in circuit court now.

P

This would do not.

C

Do nothing or would do nothing to affect whatever that decision was correct. This is.

F

Only prospect futures, okay yeah- I mean I'm I'm struggling with this anyway, because I've seen.

C

The amount of work that has been going that has been done and you know we're we're. I'm.

C

Not sure where this stops, while I appreciate the citizens coming out and, and you know, bringing.

C

These these types of challenges.

C

You know we could do this with almost every part of the code if someone so desires to do that and.

C

um I mean I'm I'm again, I'm struggling with this, because I've seen the amount of work that.

C

Planning and everyone else, our department, our staff planning commission- has done up to this.

C

Point now we're going now now now we're we're going to go back and say well now wait a minute.

C

And again, I'm no disrespect to anyone that wants to reach out. uh I get that I've done a lot of that.

C

Over the last eight years to revisit, but this is pretty complex when you was this discussed.

D

In the original proposal that went before, planning and zoning, it's for, like it's 30 years,.

P

Shopping center near the 2632 corridor- um and this is only the second time that this.

P

Particular provision has been used right, and so we did discuss it as part of the revision, cc1 c2.

P

And c3 and the decision was made by this body to continue with the current provisions as they stand.

P

With those so and it's just a development option, it's not a zoning decision, it's just a development.

P

Option the the um a couple things one like I said, two agenda items when we started talking about the.

A

um How we're dealing with agricultural remainders? We are looking at the community.

A

I'm doing what's right for carroll county and it's a community issue.

A

I feel like this is a community issue. um You know it definitely with the one playing commercial.

A

Center being on 2632 down in eldersburg, this being a second potential site, I mean there's only so.

A

Many places that these things are going to go, the community has reached out, and you know um you're.

A

Right, it can continue on people can question everything, but it's not just one individual.

A

And I rather get it right, I mean it may take a step back.

A

um But I rather take that step back, bring it to the planning and zoning commission. Let them work.

A

Through it have the work sessions, have these discussions to get it right, um and I refer.

A

Right back to to what you're saying it's wrong, I'm saying that there's potential for it to be.

A

Wrong yeah: this is, we just went over this okay and you're, saying you've heard from other people.

A

Absolutely okay, yeah! No! No! I apologize now. I didn't mean to be.

A

um No absolutely oh, my gosh, this, the uh um storage facility down 26 um and prothrow road are like the.

A

Three topics that I'm hearing disable property, but this has been a very um uh important item on.

A

26, it's right across the street liberty exchange, there's a lot of growth happening um and a lot of.

A

The community is saying: let's fill what's already. There then continue to build out 26, because.

C

This is about the specific use of residential. This doesn't have anything to do with. No that's right.

J

Right, which is where I'm struggling with it, I mean, isn't that it's amending. I remember the.

C

Planning center- I remember planning commission talking about this, about how that's sort of the.

C

Sort of what's happening now right and that don't you guys remember that.

C

I'm sorry I mean they were talking about these particular places and how you know the rep or.

C

Whatever it is, the residence is sort of the yeah, it's sort of the the the norm. If you will I'm.

C

Not I mean I don't, I think the point was we have to allow for some type of multi-family.

P

Somewhere and this was an opportunity to allow um multi-family housing, which is necessary.

P

um To have affordable housing in carroll county for our citizens that need that type of housing.

P

Stock, thank you limited opportunity for that, and this was just one more avenue since we don't have.

P

A lot of avenues to do that for such right, this is very even be affordable, housing. It's just.

U

And would be whatever the market yeah? That's where it was the market right. Okay, thank you. This is a.

D

Lot better now very popular concept in many other counties. Correct! Yes, yes use this model yeah and I.

A

It is and uh again keeping the again the the culture of carroll county. That's what we did to.

A

Activities ago, um I think we should take a step back and allow the planning and zoning commission.

A

To review this option and if changes need to be made, they make them and recommend them back to us.

C

Do you remember on the other side of that coin? Is they could very well get to the point where.

C

They say no we're good with it. That's correct, absolutely and let it go. I mean this isn't.

C

The this isn't the magic. Oh it's getting changed now because and that's remember.

C

Those conversations now that you've refreshed my memory and they were good conversations on.

C

On ability to live somewhere affordably and not in the 750 000 home on five acres, so my problem.

G

With this plant is doing just went over this, we just went over this and we're gonna. Do it again.

G

I understand this is brought before us. We've looked at this, of course, we're going to make a.

G

Decision right now we're going to lose four, but this wasn't like it was done 10 years ago. This.

G

Was done very recently, they're both paintings only in us and we we came, we settled where we settled.

A

And you want to make a motion for the community's influence, uh I think is very impactful and I.

A

Want to respect it um I'll move the board of accounting commissioners forward. The proposed.

A

Zoning text amendment to the planning and zoning commission for their review and recommendation. I'm.

D

Going to second that, because we have to get this right exactly so, you think we got it wrong, but I.

D

Mean we got it wrong? That's right, nobody says it's wrong, but he had all these. I don't mean to cut you.

G

Off, I'm sorry, but we had all these discussions. We talked about this when we were running over.

G

This we just did this motion in a second now, it's open for discussion. Sorry! Thank you. um Okay! No! No.

A

And that's fine, I just um you know when we did the baby property. We took a lot of steps back.

A

Because we had to get it right and we took, I mean it was very significant on the plans. I mean many.

A

Many steps dan huff- you know- was up there with me and he's like we kind of slow this down and get.

A

It right and nick get the right mixture and you know that's what this is um and there's enough.

A

Dialogue that's been happening that I want to do what's best for our community. It ain't about.

A

Constituents it's about the community and it's about the neighborhood and let's get it right.

A

And and you're right they may come back and say: no. We got it right enough of this um and that's.

A

Their responsibility as well uh from planning and zoning commission yeah I'm going to approach this.

C

From a personal standpoint want to vote for this, because I'm going to vote for work uh because I.

C

Do think we need to hear from the public, but from you know, from a governmental standpoint.

C

um I just think this is. This is wrong to go back and I hate I. I I very much dislike the phrase we.

C

Have to get this right because you automatically assume that it's wrong and I dislike that phrase. I.

C

Always have because I I sit down there and I have two: we all have work that they do not all of us.

C

um And and the you know the the things that they they discuss and all of that and um and I just.

C

I don't. I just don't think that the timing is right here for this, uh but because I think it's.

C

Important to hear from yeah from citizens I'd be the same way. I mean I've had a couple things out.

C

My way that you know um that got this far, but they no, I will say that they didn't get this.

C

Far because the citizens came out strongly before it got to this point, that's the thing that I most.

C

Appreciated by the citizens out in my area, because they came out in strength and said: oh no, that's.

C

Not what we're going to do so now, it seems, like you know, we're we're going to throw a flag and say.

C

Even though we're ahead by one point we're going into overtime, and that does that just I don't like.

C

That and I don't like again, we need to get this right. Well, maybe we based our decisions.

C

Thinking we had it right based on all the work, that's been done right and I think it's borderline.

C

Disrespectful to all the work that's been done, but again you know how I'm going to vote on this.

C

So maybe the debate's over, because I do appreciate the citizens coming out, uh but I just I don't I'm.

D

Not going to argue call for a vote all in favor with motion aye aye, reluctantly against opposed.

A

Okay, three two so just so I can be clear, was the motion specifically for the residential portion.

U

You got to watch the video, absolutely okay, because if not, I want another vote because I will not have.

C

This reopened for everything else. This is only for that and I'm against that, because I believe.

C

There's really a place for that here in this county; okay, so but it it's just that part only.

P

Thank you for your time. Okay, thank you.

A

Quality performance review service for 9-1-1 operations.

A

Campbell jack, oh mr brown's out there, okay, cool.

B

Good morning, gentlemen, good morning, commissioners, commission use that that term rather liberally.

K

Thank you, mr, as you said, commissioner rossi, we're here today to discuss quality performance review.

V

Service or number one operations, specifically as referenced in the the brief there's, an industry.

V

Standard for oversight of 911 operations- and it includes a a thorough quality performance.

V

Review effort along those lines or as a result of of that oversight need a request was put together.

V

And presented to the maryland 911 board at their october 27th meeting of I guess it's a week ago.

V

Requesting 140 759 dollars to fund a proposed three-year agreement with the international.

V

Academies of emergency dispatches known as iaed to provide this much needed service. The board.

V

Approved that request in the form of paying 100 percent of it. As a result, it would be no.

V

County funding necessary to proceed. If that's your discretion, the agreement proposed today.

V

Will ensure that the service that we already have with the iaed for this service, a one-year.

V

Term would be extended seamlessly with without interruption, and I believe that, and I'm very.

V

Happy to have jack brown with us to join me today he's the manager of the emergency communications.

V

Center at 9-1-1 center- and I think you have documented the improvements from the existing.

V

Contract and we want to maintain, if not improve, increase those improvements. As a result of this.

G

I think we should have to pay for ourselves just kidding.

C

So what you have, what you have in place is working now it is um so it is a requirement.

AB

To do the quality assurance review of the of the protocols um short of having people, um this is the.

AB

The process that that we've gone through so the the numbers board does fund these types of things.

AB

um And um ashley can ashley and amanda can speak to some improvements. But yes, we have.

AB

Seen a significant improvement over the past year of this process and commissioner, I apologize if I.

V

Could like to recognize other important members of our staff. We have miss ashley bergen, miss amanda.

V

Poor here they're both assistant managers in jack's operation. So thank you, ladies. I apologize.

C

Well, it seems like a no-brainer to me if it's working and you want to do two more years. Three.

V

More three more years then- and we roll right so I'll- make the motion that we accept the funding.

C

Offered by the 911 board and uh authorized to direct for public safety execute the.

C

Proposed agreement with the uh ied, including the payment of the bills,.

C

Second, got a motion got a second any discussion on this seen here. None all in favor, okay,.

C

um Absolutely thank you guys. Thank you, ladies um excela land management system.

A

Annual maintenance and support renewal looks like we do this every year, maybe annually yeah.

K

Really got those last two decisions you guys made I have to make. I have to be.

G

Okay, that's fine! Thank goodness! Okay, good morning, commissioners,.

A

Good morning, the office of procurement and cooperation with technology services request your.

AC

Approval to award the renewal for the acela annual maintenance and support services to a seller in.

AC

The amount of 106 830.13 this amount is within the adopted budget good morning, commissioners, charlie.

S

Benheart with technology services with your concurrence today, we will execute year, two of.

S

A three-year agreement with excela for maintenance software support and upgrades azure aware excela.

S

Is at the core of our integrated land management system and is used every day by multiple agencies.

S

Which are mentioned in your executive summary and many of our external partners as well.

S

And so um this is, uh this is a routine renewal for software support even annual. I hear.

G

I'll make the motion board of commissioners a word: the renewal of the excel annual maintenance.

G

And support services too believe it or not, excella in the amount of 106 830 and.

G

13 cents got a motion, second-hand discussion, seen here, none all in favor, aye, aye, aye, aye.

C

Well, he steve's feeling bad over here, so I figured I'd, go with it. Okay, thank you very much. Thank you.

A

Very much, commissioner, okay, that was a hard one. Let's talk about the fy 23 cardiac devices.

A

Grant application close to my heart: let's go. I've talked about really going on myself.

C

You're pushing let's talk about the next agenda, pushing it frasier out there. You are michael here.

AD

That's right come on in we're now going to talk about the fy 23 cardiac devices grant application.

AD

Good morning, commissioners, good morning morning, so uh here this morning to ask for.

AD

The uh matching grant from the mims 50 50 grant process annually. The state offers out to the.

AD

Different jurisdictions, the ability to to match a state pricing to get a grant which was about.

AD

50 percent of the cost right now, our total project that we submitted to the state was 63 720 dollars.

AD

So we're looking for approval for the county matching of thirty one thousand.

AD

Eight hundred and sixty dollars and seven cents- it's not what the paper says mike.

C

Briefing paper says: 33 135 14.. So what what are you saying? Okay, the the updated one, is.

AD

Thirty one thousand eight hundred and sixty dollars and seven cents.

C

That's cheaper so you're on it you're on a roll baby. I'm going the right way.

AD

I'm on the right way with that, so we did have to have some uh concessions.

AD

Through region, three, which is the different jurisdictions in the uh the state there.

AD

um To where we, instead of a 50 50 grant this year, it was a 48-52. That's why we had some changes in.

AD

The numbers- okay, okay, we were going to we apply for uh not for grant. We we're going to pay for.

G

This ourselves, originally, is what you're saying then: we've got this grant to pay for half of it.

AD

Yeah we were going to come. It happens for this price, we're going to come to you and ask for this.

AD

Full price, and then we were able to get into this grant process. Okay, when you're going to come for.

G

Us for full price that wasn't in the budget. Yes, it is in the budget, it is in the budget. Well then, how.

G

Come the the county match for the grant, it says it's not in the budget not budgeted. No, it's in the.

AE

Current budget, it's part of the funding as part of the complete package for staffing fired ems.

AE

Chase cars so now we're actually so it isn't a budget okay. So the grant came available and we.

AE

Were able to reduce okay, okay, yeah yeah, it is saving money yeah. I got that but uh and it's in.

A

The budget because that's the way right, yeah right, yeah, okay, okay, so who captured the price? Because I.

A

Apologize, I did not what was it mike? Thirty one thousand eight hundred sixty seven dollars and.

G

Seven cents is what I thought it was off top of my head: 160 and seven cents sixty dollars, seven.

A

Cents would you like to make the motion make the motion of the board of county commissioners.

G

Approved this mission, fy 23 cardiac, monitor devices, grant application and accept the award.

G

um The need to have the amount in there the board authorizes thirty, one thousand eight.

G

Hundred sixty dollars and seven cents and matching funds, if awarded I'm opposed to the seven signs. I.

A

Got a motion, I got a second, I got discussion about seven cents hold on a second [laughter].

A

Okay, all in favor all right: okay, let's talk about amendments to carroll county code of.

A

Public law, local laws and ordinances, chapter 37, fire and emergency medical services.

A

Chris, we have anybody on the phone for this.

X

No sir, was just trying to catch up on that last motion. Thank you. Okay, when you get a seven cents.

A

Please let me know: um do we have anybody in the public that wants to talk on this.

A

If you're going to, I mean, let me know okay, I can I'll give a carter here. Okay, uh michael.

AF

Karolenko, I am a county resident and president of the carroll county, professional, firefighters and.

AF

Paramedics, I think the biggest thing I'd just like to say is over the course, especially the last four.

AF

Years but you know all the way back to 2017 when this whole process and conversation started. This.

AF

Board, in particular, has done a lot to move forward and get this process moving and then continuing.

AF

And moving forward, you know obviously there's always concerns and there's things that poke.

AF

Up that um with every facet of what we're facing, but um I I would like to take the opportunity I.

AF

Think it's the last time of in this forum being able to stand in front of you in some kind of.

AF

um Pertinent conversation to say thank you for the investment and for what you've done to move this.

AF

Forward, um you know it, this is necessary and I think the fight, the future. You know, given all the.

AF

All the uh continued uphill battles- maybe we have and all the things that extend far beyond the fire.

AF

And ems service into kind of cultural and other concerns that we have right now um we're moving.

AF

In a good direction- and I think that that started- and I maintained momentum here within this board-.

AF

So I really do appreciate that. Thank you for your open year, through this whole process. uh Hearing on.

AF

This I think that, at the the end of this board's time being able to pass chapter 37, um you know.

AF

And obviously, hearing our concerns leading up to it um is a great capstone that your tenure here.

AF

So on on our, uh I guess on behalf of us, we thank you for that investment and um that that movement.

AF

So we look forward to hearing the conversation. Thank you thanks. I appreciate using word capstone.

A

Because I was thinking cradle to grave- and I don't want this to be in the grave so cradle.

A

To capstone is a much better way of capturing this, so uh especially in their line of work. No graves.

A

Can I call you chief now? Well that's up to you all: okay go ahead, we've had our deliberations on this.

AE

um There will be a a long future ahead and hopefully it's going to be a very cooperative.

AE

One between all the entities- I can't stress enough- the criticality of us being able to.

AE

Move forward with our hiring we're working every day right now with hr, developing a.

AE

Schedule and at the same time, uh the the needs for emergency services are constant each day.

AE

It's becoming a greater challenge under our current staffing system, for example,.

AE

We dispatched five ambulances the other day for someone that fell off a roof in hampstead.

AE

um So we, the quicker, we can get things in place, the better off the dispatched five ambulances. Yes,.

AE

Because they were all understaffed and it took that many to get two people that could make a crew.

AE

And so the sooner we can get moving with the hiring. I thought it was a. uh I thought it was an.

C

Mci when it came across my phone yeah well, I was on my way in and I'm sorry acronyms mass casualty.

C

Incidents- yes, I almost drove over there just so I could get in the back of an ambulance. That's what.

C

I looked at it, I said, there's something going on yeah, yes, and so I've made a phone call and.

C

He said no, not really just can't get anybody over there. I'm like okay, never mind, but there.

A

Was no, I did no mutual support, arrests, baltimore, county or from uh well. We ended up the the unit.

AE

From baltimore county came in mutual aid from upperco, which is right there at hampstead, so.

AE

um Again, passing chapter 37 will enable us to be able to move forward advertise the positions.

AE

And uh moving to hire the lieutenants first as we've discussed and then we're gonna see.

AE

Where the hiring process is for all the other positions, so yeah capturing these comments are.

A

Very important on how we're moving forward. I really appreciate a lot of the work. That's.

A

Been done so, and we have to maintain the quality of people that we're going to hire we're looking.

AE

To get people that are going to stay here and people are going to come work in carroll.

AE

County for not just monetary reasons, because it's carroll county and we're going to try to create a.

AE

Very positive culture within fire and ems and people are going to want to come here to work.

AE

It was his birthday the other day. Can you recruit him or is he we did recognize that and uh just as.

A

Long as you can get through the physical ability test at his age, forget it hey, wait a minute now.

C

I had I did gain like three pounds last night with a birthday cake, but whatever you didn't.

A

Give us anything except so I'm just saying so uh I was I wasn't here for the hearing you done mike.

C

I don't want to cut you, no I'm done okay, good you and I cut each other off a lot, though maybe.

C

It's you know whatever. Anyway, uh I wasn't here for hearing I did watch the hearing. uh I I will.

C

Again say that I was embarrassed by the hearing with some of the comments that were made there.

C

um You know what what what continues to challenge me is, you know, lost in the mix of all this.

C

Glitz and glamor of of uh you know: well that's what they do so we have to do. It is the fact.

C

That we have an incredibly strong volunteer presence here. That needs not to be forgotten.

C

Anytime soon- and I will continue to say that, when even when I'm not in this seat because we're only.

C

Here, because of the incredible amount of work that the volunteers have done in this county.

C

And I'll leave it at that. I do have a question on the overtime. um I'm the.

C

Can can we just quickly sure sit on that for a minute and go over that? Real, yes and you you.

C

Sent us something um about the what the law enforcement is getting here uh and I want to.

C

Just briefly touch on that- and this is where we need to get it right- does come into play because.

C

We haven't done this yet so now you can use. We need to get this right now. Wait a minute you're.

C

Picking choosing what I can use, I'm picking on you weaver, because I can, I believe we need to do.

C

It that was a that was a big win. Small world comment. Don't worry, do it right so yeah, so.

C

Let's touch on that again, so I think everybody understands we're following the letter of the.

AE

Law, fair labor standards act and, what's known as the 207k exemption, so anyone who is a fire.

AE

And ems person, meaning their credentialed to do both or just fire or just fire, uh falls under.

AE

The exemption, which means that we're going to base it on a 28-day work cycle so in that 28-day.

AE

Work cycle with the 24 72 shift configuration. They will come out at the end of that 22 days if they.

AE

Were work no extra time working, 160 eight hours, the threshold for overtime is 212 hours, so that.

AE

Leaves them 44 hours short of being able to make overtime? So when we have overtime being defined as.

F

Time traditionally time and a half yes, okay, so the scenario is if I work an extra shift, I'm working.

AE

That, at straight time, if I'm working at pleasant valley and we get a cardiac arrest at 6 a.m, we.

AE

Normally relieve at seven I don't get back till nine, I'm getting two hours of my straight time. Pay.

AE

And so in comparison with um other agents, the only other agency, that's under 207k exemption.

AE

Would be the sheriffs it's defined a little bit differently of law enforcement versus fire ems.

AE

But the reality is: if they work over on a call, they will get time and a half and if they work.

AE

Extra shifts they will get time and a half so and that's based on their shift. Configuration now.

AE

Correct so they're working in a two-week cycle and in that two-week cycle, it's I believe it.

AE

Comes out to 86 hours or 80 hours, but the bottom line is they get time and a half overtime for.

AE

Everything beyond that beyond 80 hours. Yes, okay, now understand that this doesn't mean if we, if.

AE

The decision was made to pay the overtime, no one's going to get that overtime unless they work extra.

AE

Time so it wouldn't be each pay period that all x number of personnel are going to get automatically.

AE

44 hours of time and a half you'll only get it when you work that extra right. So the challenge.

AE

Will be hour or two or three right so every hour beyond that, if you would decide to go in the other.

AE

Direction would be at time and a half, so we don't anticipate in the first two years at being much.

AE

Because all leave will be scheduled, they'll be unanticipated, sick leave, but we're going to have.

AE

Four floaters, the between in this fiscal year, then next year, adding two floaters that gives us six.

AE

Positions to backfill on duty without paying overtime, so the overtime would be infrequent.

AE

um Moving forward in the future, there's going to be an increased liability for overtime, we're going.

AE

To see people that modified duty pregnancy, what have you, but so in planning for this, we just went.

AE

By the letter of the law, which was follow, the 207k exemption and good bad or indifferent working, the.

AE

Shortest work week, that's available for fire and ems 42 hours, which is an optimal shift. You end up.

AE

With that deficit, we also, I did a survey through the maryland metro chiefs and only got a few.

AE

Respondents, but the jurisdictions that did respond are paying time and a half for everything they.

AE

Already made that decision going forward and if you saw my survey, you saw the amount of money that.

AE

Some of the jurisdictions were paying which struck me as one of them I know, was queen anne's county.

AE

Which they're not even staffing, fire, they're, just staffing, ems and the other counties that responded.

AE

And been our friend across the river in fairfax county, I know if you saw that 39 million dollars.

AE

Oh, my goodness, for every time in one year, that's a little bit different because the different.

AE

Scenario there were bodies coming into play and that's yeah, that's huge. So not the bodies are.

C

Huge the amount of right right number of number of bodies, some of the bodies may be used. So that's.

AE

Where we are in terms of making that decision, if there's anything negative about it, it would.

AE

Be we if we can't find people to work overtime because we may have to reach that threshold? They.

AE

May decide: hey we're, not working overtime, then the scenario that presents itself would be something.

AE

Called a holdover, so you're planning on getting off at seven o'clock this morning. You've got some.

AE

Family event or vacation planned we're gonna. It's mandatory part of your job condition that we're.

AE

Holding you over you're, not going home, so two two problematic things with that number one: it's not.

AE

Going to make employees happy, we don't see that happening much, but the other issue is going to be.

AE

We've now got a person, who's worked for 24 hours and in places like westminster and sykesville in.

AE

That 24 hours they may have run 20 calls so they're now fatigued and the question becomes.

AE

Is uh what's their judgment and decision making capability a couple, just quick questions? One is.

A

Is there in this a periodic review like every two years you will be going through this or.

A

Every five years- or this is this- will be in your ordinance, so yeah right go through sorry, you'd.

C

Have to open it back up public hearing process, so so, once you make the decision, I would say.

F

It's pretty difficult to go backwards and to take away. If you were to go up to the you know, say it's.

F

Staff members, firefighters and fire ems would start receiving overtime at a certain.

F

Number of hours, 168 or or somewhere right that you have to at 212, but it's somewhere in between then.

F

um To go backwards and to reduce that down to the 168, I would say, would probably be very difficult.

F

Yeah, the other thing that I just think is important to mention is: we will be hiring.

AE

Some employees that are paramedics only right, meaning they have no firefighter qualifications.

AE

So under flsa, if all they do, is ems they're automatically anything after 40 hours, they'll.

AE

Be paid a time and a half, so what we're doing within the workforce by the result of that is.

AE

Creating some disparity among those employees and that's that's just something that you know we'll.

AE

Have to deal with that is the federal law, too. I mean right on the law yeah, we didn't mandatory.

A

Holdover scenario uh is that time in half granted no that'll, be it straight time until they reach.

AE

That 44-hour threshold, if they're a firefighter or firefighter yeah, if they're a paramedic and.

AE

They're on a mandatory holder then automatically they get over time, starting at minute number. One.

B

Chief robinson, I want to express my sincere appreciation to you doing the research and.

B

Analysis and all this give us an in-depth understanding and the county ministry are.

B

Purported to us- and I think it these numbers- put things in perspective. Looking at the frederick.

B

County numbers, they said he had 6.8 million and overtime associate in fiscal year, 22 and.

B

He only had 3.7 million budgeted, so that shows the exposure that takes place but bringing it down and.

B

Also, I really appreciate your clarification on the difference in law enforcement hours.

B

Versus the hours used by ems staff staying on, you know 24 hours, whatever the cycle is so it.

B

Does create a different scenario: these numbers are very informative, so thank you well and I'm.

AE

Not going to take credit, it's a team effort here so between the county administrator office of.

AE

Budget and the comptroller particularly cheryl and payroll, they have a very good working knowledge of.

AE

This and how it's going to impact everything, so thanks for giving them recognition well,.

AE

That's what it's all about is we're a team here and we can't do it all ourselves and.

AE

We want to make sure we're giving you valid information. Thank you very much. That's good.

A

Okay, information is important. Yeah ballot is good. I I have to say I don't like to discrepancy.

G

Between what the paramedics will get on over time and what the firefighters em that's good over time,.

G

I I think, that's potential for causing some problems within the firehouse, and I don't like.

G

Discrepancy for what the sheriff's department's getting over time with the fire and ems getting.

G

Overtime- I I don't. I don't like that either. I think my opinion, I'm only one weaver back off.

G

He said yet that if you work overtime, you should get time and a half, that's my opinion of it. If.

G

It's if it's one hour, if you're held over yeah you're, scheduled, let's just beyond your scheduled.

F

Hours because, yes yeah! Yes, that's what, if you work beyond just go to hours, you should get time and a.

G

Half my opinion to include the mandatory overtime or mandatory holdover. Yes, that includes that yeah.

C

That's fine. I hope we get away from this mandatory holdover stuff, I'm if I am incredibly against that.

C

And I hope that discussion stops yeah, because I hope that you set yourself up that, and I know you.

C

Will mike you and your team will set us up that that will rarely happen because working 24 been.

C

There done that, I don't even want to. I don't even want you to whisper to me anything about m-h-o.

C

Yeah, so I don't want to hear it. It's an acronym yeah another one.

C

If we decided, I'm hung up on this letter of the law that we keep talking about.

C

If we decide that we don't want to go by the 207k when it comes when it pertains to the overtime.

C

What does that mean to this letter of the law? Conversation.

AE

That's purely the prerogative of the government, you have to pay, um you know some overtime rate.

F

After 212 hours, okay, prior to that, if you want to be more generous, you're welcome. Okay,.

C

uh I'm going to agree with my colleague: do it all the time? I truly believe that the time and.

C

A half is important, especially coming off of a 24. uh and again I've. I've lived it.

C

And I appreciated that and I sincerely believe that it's not going to be a huge impact.

C

Fiscally to us for at least the first two or three years it might after that, once we get the force.

C

To the numbers that we're hoping we get them to.

C

But I just don't know that it's going to be that huge of a fiscal impact at this point so.

C

I'm all about chapter 37, I'm ready to make that motion with the exception of adding the.

C

Fact that if you work over your scheduled time, you would receive time and a half.

C

That's my motion: is that actually emotional? Yes, that's I'm going to make that motion. It's still.

C

Open for discussion, but I'll move that we adopt chapter 37 with the change of anything regardless.

C

Of title over your scheduled time gets you time and a half I'll. Second, that, okay, I got a motion.

A

I got a second open for discussion when you said, regardless of title well, because we were.

C

We were talking about paramedics versus fire, firefighter ems and supervision, supervisors.

A

Are regardless of no no wait, a minute, still not pay overtime to exempt employees yeah? This is.

C

Only for non-existence, okay, let me add that I want to be clear: non-exempt employees, okay,.

AE

Yeah, okay, I'd like to guess a second adamant that amended stoner's, getting ready to pick up a chair.

C

And throw it at me, but non-exempt employees, okay, what what impact does this have on our budget? Man.

D

I apologize so I got a motion that has been now amended uh and uh second to that amended motion.

A

um The discussion is now open and your your question is about the budget. Was this? What impact.

D

Does this have on our budget? I would concur with um commissioner lance that probably in the first.

AE

Two years and um myself and my staff we're running, we've run these multiple scenarios of what's going.

AE

To happen, I, I think, we're being responsible out of the gate by having scheduled leave and your.

AE

Approval of allowing us to have floaters up to six on each shift is going to offset. uh I would.

AE

Say at least for the first two years because of our numbers going to offset the majority of that.

AE

We're going to be keeping the data on all of that, because it's all through the vti system and we're.

AE

Not going to be the only ones, monitoring that budget's going to be monitoring that payrolls.

AE

Going to be monitoring that and we hope to be able to forecast where that may occur. What is.

AE

Unforeseen is, we could have another covet or a similar pandemic that could have a bigger impact.

AE

But again that would be an emergent situation that we would you know the whole county government.

AE

Would be managed differently in a situation like that, so I see it being minimal impact at this.

AE

Time but where the real impact might be is several people each week are probably going to get a late.

AE

Shift call and we're looking at an hour two hours here and there, which is really negligible.

AE

The the impact's about twelve dollars an hour per employee per hour, the impact.

A

So I I believe I understand what's been shared. There is a greater impact expected in the outer.

A

Years, yes, because the force will be put together as we get force multiplier in there exactly so.

A

In years, four five and six, you know- has a potential of being a concern, but the first.

A

Two three years, you know it's it's negligible, so, okay, okay, any other discussion on this.

F

Don't don't approve that motion technical difficulties with it yeah our excellent payroll.

F

Manager wants to make sure that we get this right, so I believe we need to say and cheryl correct me.

F

If I'm wrong that they that the over the time and a half for non-exempt employees would occur.

F

After they've reached the 168 hours, do you want to get to the table in excess of 168 hours in the 28.

F

Day period or if I could come up yeah or there's, there's no there's no oars unless you're in a boat.

AG

Kind of like a base for the pension and stuff like that. So when, if you want to be.

AG

More liberal on the 207k, you can pick a period of time like 14 day period and you could set a.

AG

Quota, you don't have to like the 168 is based when he's trying to do it like on a four week.

AG

Cycle the 42 hours a week right, so it's really 212 anything, but they would technically be working. 168.

AG

Hours in that four week, and then the law provides for it anything over that amount.

AG

For the pension and stuff like that, uh if you want to technically use it, you can always be.

AG

More liberal, but you need to drill down to the pay period like either choose a 14-day cycle.

AG

And that's 106 hours, I believe yes yeah and you can make it more liberal. Anything over the base of.

AG

80 hours in a two-week period and um for that or you could go the 14th, but their schedule is so odd.

F

They'll earn the work a lot of hours in one two week period and very few hours in a second that's.

F

Why we're going with the 28 day period is my understanding, so even for the entire weeks and 124.

AE

Yeah, so even if we, uh the baseline for the pension, can still be the 28 days period, you could yeah.

C

Yeah that that's where I was gonna, that was my question: why not just make the pension base.

C

The base salary, the 168 168 or whatever it is yeah. I guess what it depends on how you write.

AG

The 207k and how you do that if you have that thing, but I'm not very familiar enough to say.

AG

And talk about the pension side of it, I'm only familiar with the 207k, so I don't think I don't.

AG

If the 168 hours is a base, then you would make the overtime. If you want to be more liberal, you could.

AG

Say you want to pay at the 168 hours right after it reaches the four week period in the 28 days,.

G

That was your intent right. That was my intent. Yes, yeah, that's my intent on a second as well.

G

Okay, okay, yeah good! Thank you just making sure yeah yeah! I don't want to get. I don't want to.

C

Get in there and start messing with pension stuff, that's a whole nother exactly that is a.

AG

Whole difference, I believe the pension's still going to be based on a 20 80 hour annual base.

AE

Versus the 2186 that, on based on the schedule, is what they right right: okay,.

AG

Does that clear as mud dan? Yes, it's not well. I was clear on the 207 which okay, your impact is, but.

AG

Okay, yeah all right, I was just thrown off when you said liberal a couple times in this conversation.

A

But that's a different topic being more generous generous. I guess it's the word that I used.

AG

So it's just being more generous okay, so my my motion stands.

C

With that making sure that the numbers correct, but we're here for another 31 days, if you need to come.

C

Back to us, because of that pension thing, it's got time, not a problem um in case there's a tweak that.

C

Needs to be done, but the intent here that we did was to make sure that that time and a half.

C

Was after 168 and 68 hours in the 28 day period in the 28-day period for non-exempt employees.

D

I'm just glad people are paying attention. They didn't hear right away on this. That.

F

Was great, oh yeah, we have just in time delivery. Okay, walmart may not, but we do.

F

We've got a motion, I got a second, I got clarification and discussion. Is there any.

A

Further clarification or discussion necessary at this time seen here, none all in favor, aye.

A

Aye, okay, thank you so much appreciate it. Yeah! Okay, thank you. Thank you good stuff. A lot of work. Okay,.

A

Let's talk about the charles carroll community center, the ruling associates incorporated.

A

uh Activity or work, that's being done.

A

E

The office of procurement, in cooperation with bureau, of building construction, requester approval.

E

To increase the contract to ruling associates for testing and inspection services in the amount of.

E

Fifty thousand dollars, commissioners, a majority of these additional costs, are.

E

Associated with the unforeseen circumstances during site development at the beginning of.

E

The project this amount is within the adopted budget. No additional funds will be necessary.

A

Okay, who wants to talk good morning, commissioner,.

A

Talk to us about what ruling incorporated is going to do yes,.

AH

um Good morning, the bureau of building construction is here for you today to request board approval to award additional testing inspection services to ruling.

AH

Associates as stated ruling is a term contracting firm to perform construction.

AH

Related material inspections and testing for the charles carroll community center project.

AH

Those testing inspection services include compaction, concrete brakes and proof rolling of.

AH

The subsoil and preparation of the above mentioned we're currently at 80. Completion of site work.

AH

We estimate two to three months of additional testing and inspection services.

AH

Thus the remaining 20 of testing and inspection services includes includes the above mentioned.

AH

And also the d cell lien, which is yet to start, as uh I spoke with commissioner lance the other day,.

AH

um Our original budgeted amount for this was 178 300.. The original estimated cost that we.

AH

Came before you beforehand for ruling associates was thirty. Two thousand nine.

AH

Ninety three again, as mentioned, the additional services is estimated at 50 000, which brings.

AH

Us to a total of 82 993, which is still under estimated budget. These costs are yeah and no.

AH

Additional funds are requested. I'm sorry, so I'm happy to answer any questions that you may have.

C

You know you you hit stuff, you didn't think you were going to hit uh so yeah. They got to.

C

Keep making sure that we're not gonna have any ramifications or whatever, after that, so it's in.

C

With it's within the budget, so I you know we got to keep these guys engaged up there. So I'll move.

C

Increased contractor ruling in the amount of fifty thousand dollars second nobody's.

D

Found what's that no bodies found got a motion got a second still looking for chuck, haven't.

C

Found him yet have you found him yet chuck's up there somewhere? We think yes, chuck carroll.

F

You're you're very from your bffs you're, very familiar with them. That's why you call.

F

Them a lot of people call him charles, but you know okay anyway, a little discussion on this.

A

Seen here, none all in favor aye talk about that. Let's talk about the three options.

A

An important county commissioner, on how to address the existing condition of the upper parking lot.

A

Charles carroll community center, so you're going to give us three options.

A

Good morning, commissioners, okay, thank you again for your time this morning, again we're here before.

AI

You to discuss charles carroll community center joining me today is deputy director eric burdine.

AI

Kirk angle, our project manager for the project.

AI

We are here to present three paving options to what we refer to as the upper parking lot.

AI

At the community center, this was the or is the existing network that has been there and.

AI

Was used to service the tennis courts, basketball courts and now is incorporated into the overall.

AI

Design and parking for the community center, so we had met with our general contractor.

AI

We had performed some additional geotechnical testing and evaluations.

AI

Of the subgrade condition of that parking lot, based on that information, our contractor.

AI

Has three options that we wanted to bring before you this morning and.

AI

Hopefully get your direction on which one of these three options to proceed with and kirk's.

AI

Going to present these two, these three options to you and then afterwards, if you have any questions.

AI

Comments we'll be happy to address those. Thank you good morning again, commissioners, all three options.

AH

Are based on the useful life and respective paving options, as john mentioned upon frequency of use.

AH

And the types of vehicular traffic that will be using the community center grounds option. One is.

AH

Per the contract with north point builders, this is built in already within their line.

AH

Item includes for milling and overlaying of the existing parking lot with no subgrade repairs.

AH

The lifespan under this option is two to five years.

AH

No additional funds for this option will be needed.

AH

Option two is using a geotextile fabric. This is an overlay and apply surface. Of course, of.

AH

Paving over top of that overlay, the cost for option two includes.

AH

Forty thousand per the contract work that was originally built in within the budget, an.

AH

Additional 56. is what the cost is for this option. 56 000. now wait a minute say that again, kirk 40.

C

000 was is, what's in the budget. Forty thousand was a contract work, so this.

C

If we, if we pick option two we're looking at another, an additional sixteen thousand, no no.

C

An additional all the places that he's given you are above or over and above the original.

AJ

Contract value, the original contract value for for all three of these options do option one.

AJ

That will cost you. No extra was forty thousand that's what they have in the budget. For that.

C

Work: okay, all right anything else, everything all the other changes are subtracted. Okay, all right.

AH

um Lifespan, under this scenario, is approximately 10 years.

AH

The contractor stated in the event paving repairs or repaving work as needed. It will.

AH

Be costly and difficult to remove the geotextile fabric. However, in speaking with bosley contracting.

AH

Who's, a contractor on site that will be doing this work. They have used this option many times.

AH

In baltimore county with very good results, also in speaking with our facilities department, they.

AH

Have had good results as well in the two times that they have used it as well option. Three is a.

AH

Complete removal and replacement this option will have a lifespan of approximately 20 plus years.

AH

This cost will be 161 360., although this is the most costly option, is our recommendation.

AH

To proceed with this option, it will provide a long, lasting product and will best serve.

AH

The users of the community center by new for the new parking lot for many years to come.

D

You know, if you look at these three, you have a band-aid, a bigger band-aid and do it right.

D

Well, that's one way: that's a good way to put it yeah, I'm sorry! I was okay.

D

But that, if we're going to do it, I mean we've got a new center. There got everything and I've.

D

Learned one thing: if you're going to do it don't have way, do it? Oh, am, I said the wrong thing.

D

um But um you know, I think we have to do it. That's going to last for a period of time.

D

I know don't have a heart attack on me say: do it right? We need to do this right. Is that what.

C

You read yes, yes, I'm using that term. Again, you got me started now. It's kind of wonky.

D

As long as you don't scoot anywhere as long as you don't scoot anywhere if option one is.

B

Utilized, how long would it last that's the two to two to five years for two to five years and.

AH

I even asked: is there any subgrade work? That would happen and those of you that were on site for the.

AH

Tour, whether you've come back and uh viewed the site or not, it is in bad shape. There are.

AH

Alligator cracks what they call alligator cracks all over the upper parking lot. um It's it's rough.

AH

It is literally just a yeah, it is so it actually fell there. That's how bad it is. I I didn't want.

AH

To bring that up, commissioner, I'd help him back up, but uh so I mean it is literally just a mill.

AH

Of what's existing an overlay on top of that, and that is it no subgrade work or anything like that.

AH

um Again, option two is basically using this geotextile fabric, which is very strong. It.

AH

It works very well, I even spoke with the manufacturer, I said: is there a warranty or a.

AH

um You know somewhat of a guarantee as to how long this lasts and there's just.

AH

Too many variables involved as far as what what kind of traffic is on there. You know what types.

AH

Of vehicles and so forth, so again that's going to last you a good 10 years or more.

AH

um How long, how long has this geotech fabric been used in construction in parking lots.

AH

Oh many years, so it's got a history of oh, yes, yeah yeah! So well we had selected the med grade.

AH

um Because it comes in a fight, what they call a 500 600 and a 700. um 500 is just your very basic.

AH

Basic basic, you know, driveways things of that sort. 600 are used, for you know business areas.

AH

uh Parking lots things of that sort: community centers. If you want to apply it to this project,.

AH

um 700 is overkill because we originally thought well guys. Well, I guess we need 700.

AH

But that's mainly used on bridges, overpasses things of that sort.

AH

So the 600 grade is, is the 56 that I presented to you so with the 600 grade on a parking lot, the.

G

Projection zone is only going to last for 10 years, 10 to 10 years, give or take yes, okay. Why was this.

A

Not budgeted in the original cost assessment when we originally looked at the project, we we thought.

AJ

A million overlay would be sufficient for that parking lot, um and you know the the geotechnical.

AJ

Has confirmed, we could still do a million overlay, but it's not going to last as long as.

A

You I mean you're coming to us now for better solutions. Why would you think that.

A

Option one the mill and overlay would have been suitable. I mean yes, it's.

A

You know it's feasible, but it doesn't sound like it's. You know the correct.

A

Course of action to take yeah, I mean so it's it's been more years than we anticipated for.

AJ

This project to get off the ground and running and constructed um so the parking lot has degraded.

AJ

More than we anticipated to degrade over that time and the construction traffic hasn't helped.

A

This is about as close to a change order, as I'm going to see without calling it a change order.

A

Because the original estimate was the option, one, the mill and overlay and now you're coming.

A

To us 100, not you, I apologize, but collectively 160 000 more to get it done right. I'd actually.

F

Say it's almost a change in scope on you know of the project, because this wasn't this. You.

F

Know totally renovating the parking lot wasn't anticipated initially so yeah yeah. It's really.

F

Bigger than a change order in summer, which makes it even more concerning that we didn't see this.

A

Scope, we didn't see this as a part of the overall scope of community center.

C

Well, with all due respect to our staff, we were, they were focused on the building and.

C

The site and- and I don't know that there was a whole lot of attention paid to the parking lot.

C

uh And it was still being utilized, it was. There was parking there every day because.

C

The ball field was still being used, uh so I'm I would I mean I just I I I get that, but yet.

C

In the grand scheme of things uh the deeper you got into this project, the more that we.

C

Saw that it just that, isn't going to cut it and again, as you say, we didn't anticipate the delay.

C

Because you know I've worn kirk many times if I didn't walk in the door as a commissioner that you.

C

Fired so there was that because it did get delayed, but you know covid knocked.

C

The crap out of the project so um and then, finally again, we were, I think, focusing on.

C

The project itself and the parking lot below, and not necessarily looking at what was above.

C

But in order to do the project, a lot of things have been parked there over the last.

C

Year and a half big stuff, so it's contributed to the the to the degrading of the of the surface.

C

Up there yeah I'm not against this yeah. So I'm just asking the hard questions because again.

A

We're using not you know we're using above and beyond, and it's our taxpayers and you know: we've.

A

Already gone through this, where not everybody was for putting charles carroll in place, you know, and.

A

You know most of us were um this is above and beyond. So that's why I'm understood, commissioner.

A

We were, we were, I mean the budget that we originally handed was not was really not.

AJ

Sufficient for the but for the project, so we I mean we did we're trying to pull everything in.

AJ

That we could- and this was I mean we thought we could- we thought we- we honestly thought we could.

AJ

um Mill in early this parking lot, but again time time has been kind to it and neither has been the.

AJ

Construction traffic, if we use the geotech 700 material, how long would the parking lot last then.

G

Supposed to 600. the contractor's estimating you, you could probably get a 10 10 plus years they've.

AJ

Had it they've had it um down in parking lots where it's well over 10 years old.

B

I don't know that that makes much of a difference. I think our our big concern after talking to the.

AJ

Contractor about that option is what we do in the future if we, if we ever do want to.

AJ

Pull this parking lot up and and do what we were saying now, which is completely remove.

AJ

And replace that fabric makes it a lot more difficult, expensive. It's not something. That's.

AJ

Going to be easily milled and overlaid at a future point, you you'll be able to overlay it.

AJ

You'll just have to do a very thin milling, so the parking lot will continue to get thicker. I.

AJ

Guess is what it's about the base. It's gone, it's somehow and I think running heavy equipment over.

D

It has just shown where the weak points are and you put fabric over top yes fabric stuff. It's.

D

Going to hold, I don't think it's that hard to take up, but the material is going to sink the.

D

Same places, we're not doing anything other than here again putting a bigger band-aid on a problem.

D

Responsibility is to solve problems. I don't like the cost of a run. I don't like where this is going.

D

But sometimes things happen I mean challenge. I mean I applaud the work you're doing, there's no.

A

Doubt you know the challenge is measuring twice cutting once you know and having the ability to.

A

Foresee these concerns as construction occurs, um but uh I get it. I mean it's. It's hard work.

A

And it's sometimes harder to come in front of us and say this is a digital cost that we need, but.

A

I mean it like you said it's the right thing to do, and I do take the analogy: band-aid bandage or get it done right and fix.

C

Based on option two or three are those costs that you've put here locked.

C

Is this yes, because yeah, because um blacktop and I know all associated costs, are going up every? I.

C

Was going to say every day, but I think it's almost like every hour now it's crazy! uh So, but if we do.

C

This today we're locked. Yes, yes, sir, I know you're a distance away from doing this. Yes, when we do it.

AH

Yeah the base paving is going down today uh on the lower parking lot, so that is happening as we speak.

AH

um That's a great question, commissioner, because, uh as I know with the fluctuality of where things are.

AH

um You know I needed it as up-to-date ticker tape, type of pricing as there was and as speaking with.

AH

Them yesterday that's it's good, so that was your birthday present saying it was a great question. So.

A

Can we get a better price from the contractor? I mean, maybe the ones deteriorating, the parking lot.

D

Faster running across it with heavy equipment, uh you know cut us a break spit the difference. Yeah.

AJ

That's that's certainly part of construction. I I can't I can't say I wouldn't say that that's.

AJ

In this case, if, if we gave them a brand new parking lot, that didn't have the alligator.

AJ

Cracks that allowed the water to flow through. I think that construction equipment wouldn't.

AJ

Have caused as much damage so I mean you know we could we could say we probably should have.

AJ

Over over, you know, did a million overlay before we started the construction, so I mean there's.

D

A lot of ways it's a possibility. I I don't know I mean if you ask.

AJ

No, we have not asked for on that, but um I I didn't much know what the answer is going to.

C

Be yeah. That was a good point. I'm wondering. Did air staff pick on up pick up on this.

B

Initially and go to the contractor, or did a contractor pick up on it and bring it to us.

AJ

We air state, recognization and john met on site. We were looking at it when we decided yeah originally.

AJ

We thought we could do a million overlay, but this just doesn't look like. We should do that. Well,.

B

That's reassuring to me, because I have concerns that sometimes a contractor can get into a job and.

B

Recognize such as cost increases and bring back a revision to cover up their shortcomings. But.

B

Your reply reassured me that that did not happen. So thank you so moving the money on options, two.

A

And three and that's kind of where we're leaning towards deb, I see you're here and there's a two.

A

Alpha two: bravo, three alpha three. Bravo, I think we're gonna get into an agreement of option. Three.

A

um Is there a recommended from you on how to move the money? That's on option, look on the.

G

Second part: that's right! No! I know, but there's a 3a3b yeah okay. Yes, we we have uh funds in our.

R

General government unallocated account that can we can easily move into this project if you choose to.

R

If you choose option two or three, so you think that's the best approach in moving money. Okay,.

G

So three a is what you're, looking at yep sawmill's board of commissioners approved resolution, ctac.

A

23.03 to transfer 161 360 from general government unallocated to charles carroll, community center.

C

Second got a motion. I got a second any further discussion seen here. None all in favor, aye.

B

Against okay, four one! Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you. So we have to do option. The first.

C

Motion first, you got the money: let's put some blacktop down yeah running out of time.

AH

We'll see some today if you want to drive up. Oh I see so it's 3a to first step in 3b now.

C

We got a blacktop got, it move the board of county committee. I apologize directive bureau of building.

A

Construction to accept the change order for option three to remove and replace the existing parking.

A

Lot at the charles carroll community center in the amount of 161 360 on the upper parking lot at the.

A

Charles carroll community center second got a motion. Second, all in favor aye against okay. I.

A

Apologize you're, good. Okay! Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. Let's talk about carroll county.

A

Resource recovery park, conceptual design and northern landfill expansion, master plan, rfp.

A

AK

Somewhere around here is a presentation.

A

It starts with good morning and it's good afternoon so you're already. No, it is already.

AK

Okay, well, you do have a cliffs note version of this, so we can do a little more quickly if needed,.

AK

But good morning, commissioners, uh thank you for having us today we're here today.

AK

To discuss the proposals that we've received for development of the northern landfill master plan.

AK

uh And to request concurrence to proceed with service agreements for the project we're joined.

AK

Here today by mr andrew kays and john schott of the northeast maryland waste disposal authority.

AK

Andrew is the executive director and john: is the primary project manager he's also the one? That's.

AK

Been the project manager for all the current contracts that we have, both of them were very.

AK

Instrumental in getting us to this point, uh your purchase of land recently surrounding.

AK

Northern landfill has really changed the focus and the future allowing us to pursue the goal of.

AK

A generational, sustainable solution for our fund. That's really what this project is all.

AK

About it gets us going down that path and funds for the master plan are included in.

AK

The current cip project, so everything that we're discussing today is currently funded.

AK

There we go so on april, 1st of 2022 in concert with the northeast maryland waste disposal.

AK

Authority and rfp was issued for developing the comprehensive master plan for the property.

AK

Of northern landfill, the rfp scope included, among other things, a thorough evaluation of the acquired.

AK

326 acres: we really want to know what we can put where and what we can't put where the northern.

AK

Landfill expansion, which would extend the life of the facility, but also give us future options again,.

AK

Just because we may have permitted airspace in the future doesn't mean we have to use it, but it's.

AK

Better that we do have it a new transfer station, location and design, and we've been down that road.

AK

Before as to, why that's needed, uh consolidated homeowner use area for residential drop-off of.

AK

Waste and recyclables, as you likely know today, we have two separate facilities, one of which is.

AK

Not in good shape, uh scale, house and maintenance shop, both of which will be in the new footprint.

AK

Of the future landfill potential entrance and internal roadway improvements, potential.

AK

For rail access, we definitely want to do a deep exploration on that and a resource recovery park.

AK

Conceptual layout, which would enable us to pursue options beyond what we do today and we never know.

AK

What's going to come down the pike from the state better to try to be ahead of it than behind it,.

AK

So, in response to the rfp, we received five best and final proposals from consultant teams. Now.

AK

The primary responders are on this list, but each one are brought to the table. A team of consultants.

AK

Additional planners etc, those uh five or five proposals were received from arm group columbia,.

AK

Maryland ea engineering, science and technology of hunt, valley, geosintech consultants, columbia,.

AK

Maryland scs engineers, columbia, maryland and tetra tech with offices in germantown. So each of.

AK

The consultants does have a local presence to one degree or another. These proposals were evaluated.

AK

By a review team consisting of staff from both the authority and from carroll county dpw,.

AK

Given the depth and breadth of the proposal and our goals in this project,.

AK

A scoring system was set up to emphasize the offering team's technical proposal which includes.

AK

Qualifications experience and their proposed work plan to get us to the goals we want so.

AK

Eighty percent of the review score was based on that technical proposal. In fact, during the review.

AK

We looked at the technical proposal before we even looked at the cost proposal. We didn't want.

AK

To be prejudiced, one way or the other based on their cost, the remaining 20 is related to cost.

AK

Including staff billable rates and also their proximity to the county, we want to make sure.

AK

That people are nearby or or preferably nearby, who can work on the project, so the review team.

AK

Evaluated the technical proposals independently and essentially come up with the following scoring.

AK

So, based on the evaluations, one through five is the bottom line. Ranking we didn't want to get into.

AK

Small score minutia that way, but essentially the review team is, has recommended that ea engineering.

AK

And technology, as the one most likely to deliver the best overall value to carroll county in this.

AK

Project ea's comprehensive detailed work plan combined with the very experienced.

AK

Team that they've assembled for this project is believed to best address the stated rfp goals.

AK

One thing I want to keep in mind again: this is not a lump sum contract. The tasks will take the.

AK

Hours that the tasks will take in order to become a comp get accomplished and only actual work will.

AK

Be expended and billed the bottom line is, this is a very large multi-year effort across 326 acres of.

AK

Property and we believe this deep dive effort is needed from the start to deliver and all deliver.

AK

Develop, I'm sorry and ultimately deliver a sound long-term plan, which, of course is our stated goal.

AK

And the next steps from here after discussion, I'm sure the northeast maryland waste disposal.

AK

Authority board of directors did meet in october uh and also approved ea recommended ea contingent.

AK

On carroll county's decision, so it really is all up to us. The other reason that was done.

AK

In october is, if I'm not mistaken, there's no november meeting and we wanted to try to make.

AK

Sure we put this uh this recommendation before this board before the end of the current session.

AK

If the board of county commissioners concurs the northeast maryland waste disposal authority.

AK

Would finalize the master plan service agreements with the consultant in the county.

AK

By the end of november, and the consultant would hit the ground running in december.

AK

And at this time the entire team here can answer any questions that you may have.

B

Well, I, like the amount of effort that's been put into this. I know how important it is to.

B

Your department, it's a uh tough pill to swallow, seeing that would go to the highest contractor.

B

But there obviously has to be some reason in this, and sometimes you see contractors.

B

Don't fully understand the scope of the work that's requested and potentially.

B

Things overlooked, but I'd really like to hear something from the authority.

B

To chime in on this to back up this avenue, you want us to go on to reassure us that this is.

B

The right decision to make because there's going to be some backlash potentially from.

B

The citizens about ordering to the highest bidder it kind of defies what we're used.

B

To but there's logic behind that I'd love to hear it from the professionals in the authority.

AK

AL

Commissioners good afternoon, thank you again. My name is andrew case. I'm with the northeast.

AL

Maryland, which disposal authority? um The approach that the rfp process allows us to take is to.

AL

Build what we think is the best overall proposal for a project, and so as cliff.

AL

Mentioned we did look at the technical approach, the technical qualifications and the approach.

AL

That each of the vending team, the contractor teams, looked at and we independently and then.

AL

As we discussed, came together and realized and came to the conclusion that ea presented.

AL

What we felt was the best understanding of what the project wants to be, as it was explained by.

AL

Carroll county, uh so it it was uh recognizing the complexity of the project and it is a big.

AL

Opportunity with the property that you have and then the breadth of services that you're seeking.

AL

um And then ea was able to drill in to their proposal and really present a solid understanding.

AL

At least an understanding that we felt was very akin to our understanding of what we were saying we wanted for the county. It is.

AL

Different than a typical bid process, which usually goes qualifications, then lowest price.

AL

The rfp process allows that flexibility, where we're not governed by lowest price.

AL

Where we may see change orders, but rather we can look at the narrative around the wording.

AL

For each of the tasks to make sure that what is being offered as a recommendation meets our needs.

AL

And I apologize I'm saying our the county's needs, it's our work team and, if I make commissions I'd.

AJ

Like to add just a little bit to that, um I think I think it's all four. I know it's all four of.

AJ

Our opinions that the team that was presented, the the actual people that will be working on.

AJ

This, the the consultants, the subconsultants that were that were proposed. We thought this team was.

AJ

Far and above the best team that was that was uh uh proposed to him one of the things as well.

AK

When andrew was mentioning about, you know, depth of understanding and depth of how to attack the.

AK

Work plan that directly translates into the number of hours that are, you know, proposed.

AK

By each of the the consultant teams there was a significant difference in amount of hours.

AK

And we believe directly resulting in a difference in amount of effort. You know that may be put forth.

AK

Into the project, uh in some cases, significantly those two com, those two items combine the hours.

AK

That were proposed and also the subcontractors. uh You know one or two in particular, who are.

AK

Very very well versed and experienced in the things that they do. uh For example, ea. One of.

AK

Their their primary subcontractors gbb so gershman brickner brad. They are probably the preeminent.

AK

Solid waste planner or one of them in the country, and they do international work as well. They were.

AK

Involved in landfill work out in guam a bunch of years ago to resolve issues that were out there.

AK

uh So the combination of those two quality call quality comes with a price, but the combination.

AK

Of those two differences difference in hours and the strength of the team, I think, is the biggest.

AK

Reason that we see you know those uh the price difference that we see this isn't a these are not.

AK

Disparaging comments on any of the the companies that have proposed to this they're all good.

AK

They have all either done work or will do work at some point in time for carroll county for solid.

AK

Waste, or for tetra tech in particular, has worked on our waste water end, so they are all known.

AK

Quantities from that standpoint, they are all on calls with the northeast authority. We have a list.

AK

Of 12 on-call engineering contractors, so again it's nothing disparaging on on them at all or the.

AK

Effort they put forth it's just again the depth of understanding. You know on their end and the uh the.

AK

Work plan that was put forth. We couldn't tell them how many holes of good drill in the field.

AK

You know we here's what we want. How do we get there? That's their way of telling us here's what.

AK

We need to do to get there yeah again. It doesn't mean that that's the cost that's going to come in.

AK

If a contractor proposed 5 000 hours for a project- and it comes in at ten thousand, we have to pay 10.

AK

000 hours, likewise or counter-wise, if they come in with say it's ten thousand comes in five there's.

AK

Five thousand hours we're not paying yeah yeah, so it is not lump sum not to it is not to exceed.

AK

It is not lump sum, so we will only be charged for what work is done and that's incumbent on.

AK

Our team too, to understand and follow what each step work of the work plan is keep on.

AK

Top of the contract so make sure we're getting the deal that we're supposed to be getting mix.

A

A lot of sense appreciate all the homework you just said and uh that you've done um you know.

A

When you make the sale stop selling well, you know when you look at it ed yeah, the top three.

C

Are only about 200 000 apart anyway, when you're talking about a four million dollar contract yeah.

C

Okay, I mean yeah, but uh so- and I have a tremendous amount of respect for.

C

Andrew you and your team uh you've in the eight years back in 2014, I said northeast.

C

Waste or maryland waste what what do they do, uh but you've certainly proven what you've.

C

Done over the last eight years that several of us have been here and uh if you're in on.

C

This, I think it's um it's a good direction to be going in, because you've uh been incredibly.

C

um I think you've been an incredible player in this and we're going to be watched because.

C

In in the state of maryland, right now, in my travels with mako and the bmc.

C

The colleagues have come up to me and said: y'all got 300 and how many acres.

C

For what how in the heck did you get that so we're going to be watched on this and.

C

I'm going to use a phrase from one of my really good colleagues. We need to get this right.

A

Except for that loyola pin, so you know just just saying but well my apologies.

AL

We'll leave it alone, just we'll leave that alone. I'm gonna make the motion. We authorize.

C

A contract with the north northeast maryland waste disposal authority.

C

For the carroll county resource recovery park, conceptual design and northern landfill expansion.

C

By ea engineering and technology of hunt valley at the not to exceed value of 4.177, 949 and 94 cents,.

C

Second, got: a motion got a second any further, just yeah just deb. This money's allocated how.

R

During the budget process, you put 29 million dollars into the solid waste enterprise fund.

R

In a capital project, we've used it for land acquisition and we have 15.8 million dollars.

R

Remaining so those funds would pay for this. Okay, fantastic! That's not the number. The authority.

D

Needs to use understand that very clear on that. Thank you, okay. Thank you always I can.

A

God, motion got a second any further discussion seen here, none all in favor, aye, aye, okay, thank.

A

You very much gentlemen. Thank you, commissioner. Okay, see you chris any uh comments on the phone.

X

No one waiting on the line, sir, and unless mr bokey wants to make a public comment, which I.

A

Don't think he does, uh I know his dodgy knows um anything for open admin. I need approval to.

A

Close minutes from 10 27, 2022 legal advice and potential litigation, please take a look.

G

Motion to approve minutes from 10 27. second got a motion guys. Second, any discussion on.

A

Those minutes seen here, none all in favor, aye aye, come on up wanda. Let's look at the agenda.

A

Good morning morning or afternoon, for that matter afternoon, yes november 7th, we have.

A

Nothing scheduled tuesday november 8th. I will be attending the ag center board meeting that evening.

A

On wednesday november 9th uh there's a veterans day event at westminster senior center at 9 00 a.m,.

A

Now my calendar is an fyi. If I can make it there. Okay that'd be nice um because I'll already be.

A

Up there at 12 for a salute to service luncheon um with commissioner weaver over at uh post 31.

A

And then I'll be attending, I guess I'll be in westminster all day the board of education meeting.

A

And at 5 pm reminder tuesday november 8th is the time to vote. If you don't early vote by november.

A

3Rd or mail-in ballot so november, 8th wednesday for early voting election day is what today for.

G

Early voting by 8 o'clock, okay by 8 o'clock, is the last day today, eight or seven pretty sure. It's.

A

Eight okay: on thursday november 10th we opened session at nine and how many of these we got.

A

Left transition of historic preservations, stop that commission to planning committee adoption.

A

Of chapter 34 ethics ordinance amendments which will be questioned as these two have sidebars.

A

Carroll county, wet water resources element update cis endpoint security services, renewal.

A

Mr ripper will be up talking about that, along with the laser fish annual support renewal.

A

2022 pipe culvert and storm drain rehabilitation. We haven't heard that in a while traffic engineer.

A

Not sure what that's specifically the contract, we have a contractual traffic engineer, so we.

A

Can hold the contract so it'll be dealing with the contract for the traffic engineer from dpw.

A

Change building remodeling of two staff restrooms.

A

Looking forward to that conversation, um installation of residential water.

A

Meter vaults on beesman road, hawkins, street obrac, road and caracara court.

A

Down my area, the purchase of the liebert heating and cooling unit and the first.

A

Quarter fy 23 budget update in fourth quarter of fy 22 results from mr zaleski at 4 pm.

A

uh Retirement party, from his hour back over at uh the elks lodge in westminster.

A

Commissioner, boucher will be attending the goodwill industries of monocacy.

A

Has a event hosted by the platoon veterans services center at the good at the goodwill.

A

I'll be attending that and then commissioner boucher lance weaver and I will be attending.

A

The recreation parks volunteer of the year program at 6 30 pm over at the art center.

A

Friday november 11th, the offices will be closed for veterans day kirstell.

A

We'll have a veterans day event where commissioner weaver, I thought you were attending also I'm.

G

Attending that as well, commissioner, frazier and weaver are both attending.

A

And then I will be attending the westminster american legion veterans day program at 4 pm and.

A

I know that we just received uh information on the public schools activities that are happening on.

A

Veterans day, so we can all take a look um for that friday, saturday november 12th land resource land.

A

And resource management, environmental symposium, commissioner buchanan fraser attending the fall.

A

History days celebrating america uh we'll be over at the exploration commons and I will be.

A

Attending that I will try to attend vote for them that one and split them up on sunday. Commissioner,.

A

Weaver, where wentz has the yeah it's weaver? Actually we changed that. I did this week, france.

AJ

Will be giving his farewell wait what you're doing this week? Okay on monday, do it right november, 14th.

A

So, in other words, she's been doing it wrong for the last eight years. This is what you're.

A

Saying what now he's been doing it wrong for the last eight years? If you take that into it,.

A

Yourself, he hadn't done it to weave it away the weaver way, using small words, transit, advisory.

A

Council on monday november, 14th 3 p.m. Commissioner frazier will be attending tuesday november 15th.

A

Libraries, legislative breakfast, commissioner, boucher, is attending. I will also be attending.

A

That it's over at the exploration, commons, there's a local management board. Commissioner frazier is.

A

Attending the planning commission board, which will be downstairs, commissioner wentz will be attending.

A

And then there's a veterans, advisory meeting.

A

That commercial weaver and I will be attending please get with vivian there's a activity over.

A

At the ccysb that morning that I'm going to be attending for participating in please wanda.

A

Wednesday november 16th commissioning aging disabilities. I will be participating in some.

A

Virtual at 10 a.m: the carroll community college board of trustees meeting.

A

Over to college commissioner wentz- and I I'm attending that too,.

A

I don't know- maybe uh I didn't know that esac the emergency services advisory council, commissioner.

A

Wentz will be participating in that from 7 pm to 12 p.m or 12. In the morning thursday,.

A

November 17th, pretty close, we have open session fy, 22 audit and annual comprehensive financial report.

A

Employment campus solar text, amendment discussion.

A

I1 and c2 industrial one and commercial, two districts text amendments discussion.

A

And then we're going to talk about exercising option to purchase for the.

A

Christopher sterner property through the rural legacy program, awesome.

A

And then we talk about purchasing radios uh from mr campbell department of public safety.

A

I will not be here that morning on the 17th, I will be participating in the fort meade [ __ ].

A

Hall education, resiliency center ribbon cutting and it's at fort meade, so um a walk in a park.

A

Wait a second is this thursday, I guess so. Yes, I have the same situation as you. I won't be in.

B

Session at morning, I want to let people know that that walk in the park will have your food drive.

B

As well so anyone wants to attend, can donate food and then there was three and there was three okay.

C

Let's uh we can handle it after eight years. I think we can take it. Okay,.

B

um 5 30 p.m. There's the maryland! uh It's rmi, it's the manufacturing celebration and it's.

A

uh Bidding farewell to a very good man and public servant, mr mike, oh, my gosh, mike g.

A

All of a sudden, I forgot his name mike anyway, I'll just say mike. That's the best of us awesome mike.

A

Friday november 18th, but I will be attending that in march west, for somebody wow.

A

Saturday november 19th there's a road sign: dedication to tech sergeant joseph a farenholt.

A

And that the american legion commissioner weaver, will be attending.

A

And then at 5 pm is the sober truth and chrysalis transitional living black light.

A

Spectacular family dinner: that's a lot! The trinity church over in taneytown, commissioner.

A

Boucher and fisher will be attending one edition. Is that really my number nine.

D

Crazy november 9th at 9 30 a farm museum board I'll be going crazy. All these years.

C

And then, commissioner frazier has the podcast for farewell. Podcast with commissioner november 20th.

G

Tune in okay, okay, we don't go into close, we go into adjournment or no, for whatever reason. It's.

F

Not in our books agenda it's on the public agenda and, yes, we have a close for land acquisition.

F

You asked for it 12, 30., okay, I need a motion two. We should go to closer land acquisition.

G

How's that that's good second motion. Second, I'm sorry go ahead. All discussion, any discussion.

A

Senior none all in favor, aye, aye aye motion to adjourn after land acquisition. Second,.

A

I got a motion. I got a second any discussion, all in favor, aye, ow, okay,.