Carroll County, MD Board of County Commissioners Open Sessions, 20 Apr 2023

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From YouTube: Board of County Commissioners Open Session April 20, 2023 FULL

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A

Okay good morning, commissioner, ed rothstein, it is thursday april 20th.

A

We had a very um vibrant and successful work session. This past tuesday. uh We are now into.

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The uh the ted road show, starting uh with uh the budget and then the public's opportunity.

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To come back to us in early may to share their thoughts and we finalized the budget so really.

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Appreciate my colleagues um selflessness and focus on our community, our county before we.

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Start our open session, as always, let's stand for pledge of allegiance and a moment of silence.

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Liberty and justice for all.

A

Okay, I think we have a handful of things for uh priority carroll, but let's start to.

A

My right and the community's left, I would imagine, uh commissioner caring what's in your mind,.

B

Thank you, commissioner, rostin and good morning, carroll county.

B

um As maybe a lot of people watching aren't aware, but as commissioners we do spend our.

B

Tuesdays and usually tuesdays and thursdays before you, but when we're not here, we are out.

B

And sitting on commissions and and meeting with constituents, and that takes up a lot.

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Of time- and I'm not complaining, but it's a very important part of what we do and.

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I've mentioned before that. I, uh like my fellow commissioners, I serve on a couple commissions and.

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Councils and one of them is emergency services advisory council. We had our meeting last night.

B

And, as usual, chief robinson, updated the advisory council on the progress of the transition.

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To this hybrid county workforce, if you will to help staff our we actually have 14 stations to.

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Staff, 13 of them- and it's going quite well. It's probably why most folks in the county haven't.

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Heard much about it because it is going well and when things are going well, you tend not to.

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Hear about them not to say that it's not a major having a major impact on our fire stations and our.

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Departments and those individual corporations and as commissioners, we're very sensitive to that fact.

B

So I wanted to give a quick update that by june by the 8th of june, specifically, we will. We will.

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Have our county county, firefighters and ems folks in the westminster sykesville and tony.

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Town stations, and by the early july it looks like we are on track to have the same contingent of.

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County employees, county fire and ems folks at the mount airy, reese and manchester stations so.

B

There's a lot that goes behind those numbers. It's been a very long and challenging hiring process.

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We've adjusted it as we've needed to be as it's needed to be adjusted.

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But I want to commend chief robinson chief, michael robinson, on his command and leadership of the.

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Department of fire and ems, he has done a fantastic job, and this board of commissioners supports him.

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Wholeheartedly, we also appreciate the extra effort and time that has gone into this hiring process.

B

No hiring process is perfect and the county residents need to understand where we've seen.

B

Room for improvement, the county has actually made adjustments to include retesting of individuals.

B

Two of the smartest hires this county is probably made in the past couple years was michael robinson.

B

To be our chief and christy bixler to run our hr department and those two are working hand in hand.

B

Doing a fantastic job, along with our county staff and our county administrator to make this happen.

B

We're a relatively new board. The previous board made a lot of decisions regarding the transition.

B

And they made some, they made right decisions and we're carrying through on that. But again.

B

I just thought it was important to take this opportunity to show our support for.

B

The great work that they're doing and I promise to keep everybody updated.

A

Thanks and uh great timing very very well said so appreciate it. Commissioner gordon thank you.

C

Friday evening I attended the battle of the books held at westminster high school uh sincere thank.

C

You to carroll county public schools and carol uh the carroll county library for their partnership.

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For this wonderful program, it was wonderful to see so many sponsors involved with this event to help.

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Make it possible- and it was an exciting evening for all the kids- and it was great to see their.

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Passion in reading monday myself, commissioner rothstein kyler and vigliotti attended a meeting.

C

At the legion post, 31, I'm gonna hold off on that and let one of them speak to that also on monday.

C

I attended the magics ribbon coating for the autonomous robotics innovation center. That is.

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Going to be a fascinating educational center that magic has set up to work within the westminster.

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Community but all of carroll county to interact with stem and other robotics programs so be.

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Interesting and looking forward to seeing what all they uh they uh accomplished in the coming.

C

Years, tuesday, obviously, as everyone knows, we had budget in the afternoon, but in the morning I was.

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uh Busy attending the planning and zoning meeting tuesday morning and then yesterday morning I had.

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A meeting with president jaskins from mcdaniel college, my alma mater and then yesterday evening.

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I attended superintendent mccabe's town hall for blueprint and it was a. It was a good turnout.

C

Last night, at that meeting I appreciate the superintendent mccabe's comments on a variety.

C

Of the topics- and I think this board has done a good job of working collectively between the.

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Board of education and ourselves to try to do what's best for not only education but carroll.

C

County as a whole, thank you. Thank you again very well said, commissioner kyler we're two for two.

A

Don't mess this up, yeah, I'm trying! um I want to start out. I love. I love carroll county and uh I.

D

Even love our budget sessions, I love everything about carroll county, hey we're two and one I had.

D

um I don't know how much people see of it. We've had some very good conversations. We don't all.

D

Agree, I think I don't think anyone here got a positive vote for every one of their wishes.

D

It's it's a definitely a give and take, and uh and and it's a it's interesting um my week.

D

We've been working on the budget, I went to the tony town, business breakfast and.

D

Commissioner, rothstein still has not congratulated me for winning 75 dollars there, but I won't that.

A

Will not happen, I know he will um and uh the battle of the books, as, as you said, commissioner,.

D

Gordon, it's just awesome and it's great to see those kids working its teams. They have a.

D

Recorder in each group- and they all work as a team they're competitive, they all wanted to win, but.

D

Every last one of them have fun and, and one of the things it's interesting.

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Each team has a coach and the coach is not allowed to be with them that night, the coach is proctoring.

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Another group to make sure they do everything, correct and and was funny to watch some of.

D

The coaches kind of trying to pick up and see how their group's doing while they're watching another.

D

Group so just a great night, a bunch of photos and uh I'm sure uh chris swam is going to get.

D

Some nice photos of all of us at the event and uh and and that's great, we did have the meeting with.

D

Lieutenant governor miller and secretary woods and uh I'm sure um you're going to talk about that. A.

D

Little more, the one thing I'd like to mention it's so great to see so many groups there that the room.

D

Was full there wasn't time, as there normally is, and for everybody to probably talk to her, but she.

D

Came doing her homework knew a lot about carroll county and cares. You know. Sometimes we feel like.

D

Annapolis neglects us a little bit, she does not and secretary woods does not.

D

We are very lucky with them doing that and uh we haven't talked about this, but.

D

I'd like to call her bluff and us go visit her in her. It sounds like a plan governor's.

D

Office, I'd really like to see that happen. um We visited random house and- and that was great.

D

And it's amazing what they do in that building um and maybe you'll mention more about it.

D

To me, comic books are comic books, but that's not true. Evidently, it's it's. It's amazing how.

D

They double box, so they don't bend any of the corners. They have uh quality control. If, uh if.

D

One looks a little too wavy. It doesn't go out. So uh evidently, comic books aren't just comic books.

D

We did the work zone, awareness that was awesome out at the maintenance facility and uh great talk.

D

And, of course, the timing with the uh the accident that happened on the beltway makes it even more.

D

Heartfelt, we need to. We need to care about our workers and and uh I'm as bad as anybody. I've been.

D

On 95 behind a barricade, sometimes not behind a barricade, but I still drive above the speed.

D

Limit and go past them like they're, not even there, and that has consequences. We all need to be aware.

D

Because of the budget, I I missed the veterans advisory committee. I apologize to that group, but.

D

We got to do what we got to do and- and I I hate missing that event- that's another, a meeting that.

D

Is a lot of input from a lot of the community about the veterans and I'm sorry, I missed it.

D

Was at the community college last night for their trustees meeting and, and that was great, as always.

D

And their uh they're going through some some pains with blueprint, but I think also the legislation.

D

This time was a little more friendly to colleges and community colleges than they have been to the.

D

K-12 schools, so I hope they benefited a little bit by it but and their enrollments up. But it's.

D

Tough because of concurrent enrollment, and then we talked a little bit last night, I know some of.

D

The homeschoolers they're worried that they'll get lost in the shuffle and you know, but I think.

D

They're attractive students to the community college, I don't think that's going to happen.

D

um This weekend, there's a couple fire company events and and I've been trying to get to as many.

D

Of those as I can, and what a great group of people commissioner garrett mentioned chief robinson.

D

And what all he's doing? We have uh truly a hybrid situation. We have paid people that the counties in.

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The process of hiring we have paid people that the the fire companies have paid. We have potentially.

D

We're going to put one of our ambulances in their building and tell them how it ought to be stored.

D

It's it's a lot of communication going on between volunteers, the fire chiefs, the presidents and the.

D

Paid people- and I you know, there's always going to be a couple hiccups, but they're really being.

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Addressed- and I think um that's a great group- I've mentioned this before here- I'm amazed when I go to.

D

Some of their events, so many of the non-profits, so many of the civic groups are, are really struggling.

D

To attract younger people to get committed and work hard for them, the fire company seem to be.

D

Doing that pretty well and- and I I applaud them for that- there's been a lot of legislative updates.

D

And I just want to mention one thing: I think we got an email questioning. How do we tell.

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How do we tell how do we decide for our meetings, what gets reviewed and- and I think, there's a.

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Couple answers to that question in our meeting. There's only so much time to really talk about.

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Bills, but we talk during session almost every day and get updates. So so, even if something didn't get.

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Mentioned at a meeting it doesn't mean we didn't think it was important, it doesn't mean it hasn't.

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Already been talked about and again, lastly, um and I've told people feel free to reach out. You have.

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My cell phone number, you have my email address and, and please reach out negative or positive.

D

And uh I'll try to get back to you there's some, particularly when you send a message to all of us.

D

You may not get a response from all of us and and that you need to understand that again we.

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Talk about that and if, if somebody's doing a response, we don't want to I'll jump on it so.

D

uh Sometimes you won't get from everybody you send it to, but hopefully you are getting responses and.

D

And again, I love carroll county. Okay, thank you and uh commissioner vigliotti. Thank you, commissioner.

E

Rothstein well, the nice thing about going to last. It is certainly uh diminishes what you need to be.

F

Able to talk about so so to begin. I will echo and associate myself with commissioner garen's.

E

Comments about the transition about the department of fire ems about chrissy bisler, about chief.

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Robinson, and I will also echo the same comments as uh commissioner kyler as well. um I also had.

E

The privilege last week of attending the business breakfast and I guess commissioner kylo reno- do.

E

You want a motion about the uh congratulations on the 75, absolutely not [laughter].

D

I don't think it would pay us, we should get a second from me.

E

I I also had the honor of attending the worker safety ceremony this week.

E

um I had, I also want to express my thanks to the members of this board and to everybody.

E

In budgeting and everyone beyond who has been involved in the budgeting process, it's not an.

E

Easy process, I also want to commend my fellow commissioners for their. uh You know sense of.

E

Professionalism and their dedication to pursuing the budget I mean it. You know we had to make a.

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Lot of very difficult choices this year and those choices are only going to become more difficult as.

E

Time goes on with all the things that we are faced with, there's a gentleman that we spoke.

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To commissioner gordon I spoke to earlier this week and as a matter of politests I'll exclude.

E

Myself from the compliments that he wanted to have passed along, but he thought it was really telling.

E

That all of us were able to see beyond ourselves and our own personal opinions on things to work.

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Together for the betterment and the good of the county as a whole, and the fact that you know the.

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Members of this board are able to see beyond you know certain particular confines to see.

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What the future holds to see how certain things are going to affect everybody, whether or not we.

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Disagree with something, or else I think it's certainly telling of the commitment.

E

Of of the board, but again I exclude myself from that compliment as a matter of politests.

E

um Let's see, I also had the privilege of attending the veterans meeting earlier this week with the.

E

Lieutenant governor and secretary woods- and I also want to echo commissioner kyler's thank.

E

You as well, I mean you, know we as as he noted you know, we often feel like we are forgotten.

E

um But that certainly was not the case uh with the lieutenant governor and the secretary they've.

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Both been very attentive to our county and especially to our veterans, and for that I'm.

E

Especially uh grateful and I'll, let commissioner rothstein speak at greater length about that.

E

um And uh two final things: I um I had the opportunity to attend the uh seasonal grand.

E

Reopening of the tontitown history museum on sunday and their seasonal exhibits this year.

E

Focus on local farming, there are a number of really fascinating uh inventions that were.

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Created locally that they have on display there, for example, there is a hog oiler, and what this is.

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As a machine that was developed here in carroll county to help, hogs get rid of lice, and so when.

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They scratch themselves against it's this kind of like metal pole, and it has this sort of spiral.

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Element going up the side of it and there's a box on top that distributes oil down the length of.

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This pole, so when the hog scratches himself on the the pole, the oil rubs off onto the hog and.

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Kills the lice and it was a. It- was a problem that farmers were contending with for years, trying to.

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Figure out how to approach it, and somebody here in carroll county, figured out an early solution to it.

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um And then, finally, the last thing I'll say is to anybody who is interested. uh We have.

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Municipal elections that are coming up- and these are incredibly important because the.

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The day-to-day operations that occur in the towns and the municipalities in our county uh depend on.

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Mayors and and city council members and it's incredibly important to pay attention to the.

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Local elections as well, uh because and even though we are a board of commissioners, I look at us as a.

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Local board as well, we are local elected officials, and the reason why this is so important is for the.

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Sake of networking and working across different jurisdictions, because we are all fellow elected.

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Officials representing the general public, but also because you know being that we are closer.

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To the public, we are more responsive and we're able to to take into account. You know certain.

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Concerns and and conditions that may not, you know perforate at the the state level and then.

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The other aspect of it is that you know we have the ability to carry our citizens concerns onto.

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To the state level, in a way that you know, individual citizens may not have the opportunity.

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To do, and so it's incredibly important that that you know residents citizens pay attention to the.

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Municipal elections and who they put into those offices, because again these are going to be the.

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Local elected officials that are affecting you on a daily basis and they are just as important.

E

As who you vote for for president or governor, and that's it for me for today, thank you, commissioner,.

E

Okay and uh a lot had been shared, I'm gonna try to keep this relatively brief in the military. When.

A

You go into a long weekend. You always start with a safety message, and the safety message is when do.

A

You know when you're in carroll county there's a lot of farm vehicles out there, a lot of farm.

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Vehicles out there on state highways, 26 32, 97, 27, 30., they're they're out there be careful, do not go.

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Around them on double yellow lines, one that's illegal and two, that's just downright stupid.

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um And uh you know so take a little bit of patience and allow these vehicles to.

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Do what they need to do in the safest manner possible? That's my two cent advice on that. One.

A

um The lieutenant governor's visit, really I felt, was uh very fruitful when.

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They said they were coming to carroll county. I reach out to the secretary's office. I said: okay.

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Why are they coming and he said well, I was going to call you and ask the same: keep that photo right.

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There thanks chris, and so he didn't know so we found out what the lieutenant governor and the.

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Administration wants to do is find out why carroll county is the best at what we're doing in taking.

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Care of our community and our veterans community. The reason I'm saying keep it there is because.

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You have um deputy secretary bob finn, who is a carroll county resident secretary woods, the.

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Lieutenant governor myself and senator reedy, what this demonstrates is the legislative from.

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Our state and really appreciate district five and senator in attendance and the team working.

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Together, what you don't see is the 30 or 40 folks that we're addressing is the community, because we.

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Don't have the answers from this table, we have the answers from what the community.

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Needs are, and I thought well, the hour went very, very quick and she did have a hard stop.

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Probably took her about 15 minutes to get out of there, but it was just very appreciative.

A

um And I'll tell you it's, regardless of parties and all this other stuff. It's about commitment to.

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The community and her- and I think, we've met with secretary woods three times now in a very short.

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Amount of time their commitment to the community is just, and our veterans community is a awesome.

A

um And I told him that I said you know it's just it's wonderful. uh The workforce awareness was very.

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Important to get out there and uh speak with the folks they're there I think yesterday was.

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Where orange day, I think there's a supposed to be a moment of silence, um don't let it be.

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A fleeting moment focus on those that are out there putting themselves in harm's way uh on.

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The on the roads, without even knowing it and the that and so on, and always wear your work. Shoes.

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Not thoughtless accused and those, if you can't see those toes we're turning purple because it.

A

Was getting a little cold, so I can't remember her name, but I said I was going to do that.

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um But those were that was cliff's boot, at least um but uh yeah, the father-son that we're.

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Tragically, killed from union bridge um strength, encourage their families and let their memories.

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Always be a blessing, um we mentioned battle of books, each community had it. I had 400 kids on.

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The jim floyd century- and it was loud and it was a lot of fun. um We talked about random house and.

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All the other things, um oh, the the last thing- is main streets. There's a lot of main street.

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Activities that are starting to happen in the spring and summer shop, local and uh take advantage.

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Of the opportunities that our main streets, which really are second to none, provide um and let's.

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Leave it at that for now and move right into um purchasing of commercial washers and dryers.

A

Doesn't get much this isn't for washington dry at your house? Is it no okay.

A

Just checking now, good morning to you both.

G

The office of procurement in cooperation with the carroll county sheriff's office, is requesting.

G

Your approval to award the purchase of two each hibbage commercial, washers and dryers for the.

G

Detention center to laundry equipment services at a cost of forty four thousand two hundred and.

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Sixty seven dollars and forty eight cents, this cost includes installation removal of the old.

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Equipment and freight and a request for letters of interest, was posted on public purchase along with.

G

The detention center soliciting quotes, a total of five quotes were received. This amount is approved.

G

Within the fy 23 budget, no additional funds should be required and I will let vicki talk about the.

G

Washers and dryers so good morning, commissioners, these are the large commercial, washers and dryers.

F

That are used heavily every day in the detention center, and this is part of our overall replacement.

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Schedule for all of that equipment- that's commercial in the detention center. So it's.

F

At that point, where it needs to be replaced, if you they're just a really large two of each.

F

um Yes, not that go in your house, okay, there's any other questions. Any questions.

D

Very competitive bids- yes, yes, yeah! That's what it kind of stands out is the competitive bids.

A

You know one through four, at least so um motion to approve the purchase of two each commercial.

E

Washers and dryers to laundry equipment services in the amount of forty four thousand two hundred.

E

Sixty seven dollars and forty eight cents. Second, I got a motion a couple seconds to.

A

My right, all in favor, all right. Okay, thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Let's talk about.

A

The fy24 homelessness solutions, program, grant application and acceptance of the award. Ladies.

A

The more good morning again, celine passed my um appreciation to your team in preparation for the.

A

Lieutenant governor um visit and discussion that I think I laid a lot so please, yes, okay! I certainly.

H

Will thank you very much is great. I'm celine steckel, the director of citizen services today.

H

I'm joined by danielle yates, our bureau chief for housing and community development and also corey.

H

Harding our grants analyst from the grants office with the county, we're here before you.

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This morning, seeking approval to submit the fy24 homelessness solutions program, grant application.

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And accept the award, the maryland department of housing and community development provides.

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Annual state and federal funding to for homeless services funding is available for fy24 and that.

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Funding also includes a competitive portion of funding that was awarded when we applied.

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In fy 23 as well, it continued on as the grantee we sub-grant funding to our homeless service provider.

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Hsp human services, programs of carroll, county and also citizen services is proposing to continue our.

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Own housing civility coordination program and our homeless prevention services, some of the funding.

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um That is supported through this grant is identified in the budget below, and I want to.

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Walk through that, so you understand what we're serving with with that in fy 22, we served 517.

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Individuals that were experiencing homelessness in carroll county through various homeless solutions.

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Solutions that we offer in part with this funding, this funding does not identify all.

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The funding that comes through that we provide for homeless, supports and housing options throughout.

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The county, so some of the funding is designated for our adult only and our night by night, shelter.

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And the county match dollars that you see on this budget are part of hsps and our our annual budget.

H

For non-profits they're, they're, f their operating budget money. That's provided through your budget.

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Process each year, so that is already part of their allocation. This is not in addition to.

H

The amount they requested um so to date in fy 23 at our adult and night by night, shelter and our.

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Family shelter, we have served 253 people last year in fy 22. We served a total of 339 folks in that.

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Shelter, this funding also supports our adult and family rapid rehousing program and which.

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Is stipends for the the rental and then also our staffing, that supports them and hsp staffing that.

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Supports them last year we served a total of 92 individuals in that program and to date this year.

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In fy 23 we have served 78 folks. um There is also a match for shelter administration. Through this.

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Process, we also have our homeless homelessness prevention program and danielle's going to speak.

H

A little bit to what that means, which is a very important program that was really instituted.

H

During the covid time, because of the evictions and e-wrap, so if you want to talk to that so with.

I

Celine noted our housing stability team is still fairly new. This was additional funding that we.

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Received through the pandemic that allowed us to create these positions in this program, it's been.

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Very resourceful, so the purpose of our housing stability to team is they assist families within.

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Our community that are experiencing instability, either with obtaining housing or maintaining.

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Housing, so to date, since the inception of the program, we have served over 628 individuals with.

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Housing stability needs. Additionally, what this program does is we go to court every monday, which.

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Is when they hear the failure to pay rent cases? We also work closely with our sheriff's department.

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Department, where we receive information on any warrants of restitution that we received in.

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Regards to people who are getting set out, what we've done so far is we work with those folks.

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We've actually been able to prevent 62 of those court ordered evictions and help those individuals.

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Maintain housing as well, so there are two areas that our housing stability team works with. They.

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Also work with our rapid rehousing youth program for our disconnected youth. They are young adults.

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Between the ages of 18 and 24, who are literally street homeless- and we have been able to serve.

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And house about 25 21 excuse me, households to date with that funding in that program as well.

I

Would you have any other questions I could answer for you in regards to the program.

A

What else can we do pardon? What else can we do? What else can we do? What more can we do so we've.

I

Been fortunate with the additional funding and the stability of the funding we have. We.

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Can maintain this program? I think mainly. What we have to do is make sure that the funding's.

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There that we can continue with this program, it is walk-in needed, meaning if someone walks.

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In the door, whether it be in our program or downstairs with hsp one of our housing.

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Stability team members are going to sit with them immediately and do what we call a needs.

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Assessment when we do that needs assessment, of course, what we're doing is looking overall at.

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That per individual or that household's needs. We don't look just at programs we're looking at.

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um You know food getting make sure they go to the food pantries or doing the things there. We're.

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Making warm handoffs to dss or ysb, which is youth service bureau. So just that continued support and.

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As long as we have the financial support to assist that program, we will continue to make.

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The connections and help the individuals that we have here when they do the walk-ins you ask them.

A

How did you hear about this? I would expect we do I mean how go ahead? How more can we do on marketing.

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The program to ensure those that are in need know where to go because they're still I'm. I would.

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Expect a delta or a gap of those that need this service. That urge is not taking the opportunity.

H

So one one of the programs that this also supports hsp has an outreach staff member, and we also have.

H

Peer support through the health department, the due outreach that are actually going out to work and.

H

And find people that are unsheltered and they're homeless, or people that are street homeless and.

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They're working with those individuals who may not want to come in for services and continue.

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To try to engage them to come in the other pieces, our outreach committee that we have.

H

As a subcommittee of the coc does planning for targeted areas where they feel we need to provide.

H

A resource fair where we really need to get that information out to those most at-risk individuals.

H

Or in the more rural areas we have one coming up next week in tawny town, it's going to be.

H

At trinity, evangelical, lutheran church, we have over 30 resource providers coming to that event.

H

To provide information services, we're giving free haircuts, there's going to be bicycle, raffles gift.

H

Card giveaways for folks to really learn about the services that are provided and we're we're.

H

Pushing out a press release on that today through the county to make sure people are aware and to.

H

Share that globally across the county for any it's not just for tiny town residents, but anyone that.

H

Wants to learn dentistry, be there as well, there will be, they will connect them to that resource. So.

H

That they understand it's not going to be on site there, but they will give them information about.

H

The different dental options that are available absolutely so um those are the type of events that.

H

We have and we do several of those outreach events per year and we've we've even started.

H

Implementing some pop-up outreach events, even at the local hotels, if needed, because we find that.

H

Some of the and even to do outreach and education for the managers and the owners of the hotels to.

H

Really help with them with an understanding of individuals that may be there that need services.

A

Okay, the other thing I did want to did want to say with this application that we're submitting.

H

It's it shows these services, but it also gives an overview and a narrative about all the way.

H

That these services connect to one another. So when people come to access us through coordinated entry.

H

um They they move into the system where they are now eligible. We identify different programs that.

H

They may be eligible for get them on waiting lists, help them learn about our night by night.

H

Emergency shelter, where there is no wrong door there, no one is turned away if they need to.

H

Stay overnight there can move on into adult only shelter or family shelter and then the the piece.

H

Where we help them get into either rapid rehousing and also then into permanent supportive housing.

H

And then our move on strategy into a housing choice, voucher and then from there. Hopefully.

H

Hopefully, into independent housing and help them through that stability process. It's a continuum of.

H

Services to really walk someone into independence in their housing, and so the narrative and corey.

H

Has worked with danielle and done a great job to really map out exactly what that looks like in.

H

Our community and I would encourage you if you have time it's a lengthy narrative, but a lot.

H

Shorter than our coc nofa application to really understand that process, because it is very well.

H

Written and it we really do a lot with all of our community partners. We could not do this alone. Okay,.

A

Any questions I just thank you very much for what you do and god bless you for it.

A

Okay, is there a motion motion to approve the submission of the fy24.

E

Homelessness solutions, program, grant application and accept the award. Second.

A

We got a motion, I got a couple of seconds, I think it was stereo all in favor.

A

Aye: okay: let's talk about approval to submit to proposal documents except the fy2428 funding for.

A

Interagency family preservation services great, so um it's corey and I again teaming up um so the the.

H

We are here today to seek approval to submit the proposed documents and accept the fy24 through fy.

H

28 funding for the interagency family preservation services, the local management board- is requesting.

H

Approval to submit this budget to renew the interagency family preservation services program.

H

Since 2006, the family preservation program has been operated through a partnership with.

H

Carroll county youth services, bureau and the local department of social services, the social services.

H

Is seeking to renew this for fiscal year 24-28 as a strategy to increase family stability in.

H

Carroll county, the primary goal of these services bureau, with the interagency family preservation.

H

Service program is really to provide a minimum of 42 families per per year with children 0 to.

H

18 years of age, with services to prevent out of home placement and assist families with children,.

H

Positioning from transitioning home from an atom of home placement, this also helps the family.

H

Develop the skills that they need and resources to regain healthy family functioning, which is key.

H

And they do this through a evidence-based program model called brief strategic family therapy. So if.

H

You've ever heard them refer to bsft, which they will ramble off those acronyms. That is the key to.

H

Their success with this program, it allows children, adolescents and their families with problematic.

H

Family relationships, significant mental illnesses and co-occurring diagnosis; to involve the entire.

H

Family to focus on ways, they can change their interactions and stop that cycle and they have.

H

Had great success in fy 22, they did serve their targeted 42 families and at least one functional.

H

Domain in their assessment had improved for every family that they served out of well out of 95.

H

Percent of the families that they have served, which is a huge success, so we are seeking your.

H

Approval to accept to submit um for the 395 580 of funding that will then be passed through us.

H

Down to uh youth services bureau for this program, there is no cash match from the county required.

H

Does this calculated, oh and I'm sorry, and and this is an estimate because the state has not.

H

Received their final allocation amount for this, but this is a projected amount. Okay, it may be more.

A

That kind of answered dad.

A

Do all jurisdictions go after these type of grants I mean, or are we just so fortunate.

A

That we have corey and others that are just so aggressive, um I mean so in carroll, county.

J

um The department of social services runs the family preservation program through a vendor, a.

J

Lot of um department of social services do this in-house, but this has worked really well since.

J

2006 to do this with the service bureau, so dss is very comfortable continuing this relationship, but.

J

All dsses do some sort of family preservation right. um They look different in every dsi. You.

J

Know they have the flexibility to kind of make the program their own, and this is a model that they've.

J

Been working again, you know almost 20 years now to to work together with the youth service.

J

Bureau to provide the service- I just think it's important visibility for the community to know.

A

Money, that's not in our budget that we're not going out. You know, trying to figure out and.

A

That we get through the hard work of all of you to supplement and actually do the things that we can.

A

Do if it wasn't, we'd really be in a world of hurt so, and this is a program that allows families if.

J

They, if it's not necessarily driven by their insurance, so they can access this service. If.

J

Another family member is in some sort of clinical service. They can.

J

Kind of work together- and it doesn't wouldn't exclude them from participating in this because.

J

Of insurance, so that's really helpful as well. This program almost always has a wait list for.

J

Families to get in and get this service and they receive referrals from all of the partner agencies.

J

The school system, djs local care team, so it's a long-standing important program. Yeah sounds good.

D

Is going to say uh I made a note here it's, it would be so interesting as we're doing budget.

D

We're talking about money, that's being spent is what what is it? The rough total in grants that we.

D

Do and many like this have no county match and, and that's even better, but even when we match.

D

And get two for one or three for one or whatever dollars. It's still a good investment for carroll.

D

County and uh yeah, it would be nice not not to take away anything from this individual one, but.

D

You guys are here a fair amount with grants, and so appreciative I mean the communities.

A

I just think that the community deserves to get the opportunity to hear that and listen to these.

A

Type of programs, I love using other people's money, you know, there's no doubt, and you know I just feel.

A

Like it is competitive and why uh we go after all this because of the the needs in the community.

A

So I know maybe we can package something um and I apologize where you were saying. Grant's office has.

K

A list of all the grants we got so we and we're very successful in fact so successful another.

K

Agency, not only citizen services, a heavy hitter in the grants department, but um land and resource.

K

Management and we've been able to get a lot of our mpds requirement done as a result, using other.

K

People's money as a result and in 2018 I think it was. uh We were so successful that uh in using.

K

Grant money that we did not actually issue bonds that year, because we didn't need yeah, we were able.

K

To we, we thought we'd need to issue bonds to pay for a lot of the especially the land of the mpds.

K

Work and we didn't need to that's a good story to tell I think um you know I I do believe in telling.

A

Our own story, um and uh that that may be something is saying here, are all the grants. Here's the.

A

Packages of these type of services- and you know let the community understand we're going through a.

A

Budget process, which is very difficult, you know to achieve all the things we want to achieve. We would.

A

Not be able to achieve all the things if we didn't have the grant program as aggressive as we are so.

A

um I do want to I apologize, I'm sorry, no, no, please! I apologize the one note. I did want to say.

H

um In grants that we always have to remember is that when there is a grant.

H

That we are passing through through the county. We do have to monitor that grant.

H

Excuse me and sometimes there's administrative funding to support that monitoring and sometimes.

H

There is not, um and so with this grant, we obviously monitor that we monitor their program.

H

Programmatic reports and their fiscal reports, and then we share them with with the um the the other.

H

Grantee agency, which is dss, so we are monitoring that and providing reporting, yep and so just a.

E

General question, because, commissioner, we're all seen it you know, hinted at it a little while ago.

E

um And I you don't have to give me precise numbers or anything I just as a general sense.

E

Do you find that the number of families that are at risk is increasing over time.

E

Is it relatively stable or has there's been? I know it's going to be difficult with with.

E

The whole pandemic, you know and everything, but do you find that the number of families.

E

That are at risk, has has increased decrease or, as it remains somewhat stable. I, and if.

E

You don't even have an answer to that right. Now. That's okay! I think it's. There are more family.

J

Make mental health services more accessible and sort of kind of work on getting rid of the stigma.

J

um But I do think that some of the families that are presenting are presenting with much.

J

More significant needs um either in an individual child or across the family. So.

J

It's kind of you know we're better at identifying when people need help, but I also think the need.

J

Is greater if that makes sense, it does. Thank you very much yeah. That makes a lot of great.

D

Answer and we've talked back and forth about getting the word out yeah, but but you made a.

D

Great point: we also need to get rid of the stigma and- and let people come forward and take advantage.

D

Of it that there's nothing wrong with that, and we talked about that even again with the.

D

Lieutenant governor with the veterans there's so many veterans that say, oh, I don't deserve that. I.

D

Don't deserve that. Well, they do you know and and breaking down stigmas, step up and and take part.

D

Yep really well said: I attended the local health improvement coalition meeting last evening and.

H

They did report out that we now have open access to mental health and behavioral health assessment.

H

Monday, through friday, there's there's a location available each day of the week in carroll, county.

H

Now and that's a great improvement from where we we sat quite a while ago in one of our frf.

H

Projects that you all funded was with the services bureau. They they received funding.

H

To expand their open access, so that is another piece with the mental health where someone may.

H

Not need it until they need it today, and there is availability for that and just to be clear for the.

A

Community frf is, was federal dollars received uh post covet or in the effects of covid. So.

A

um No thanks any other comments. I know we kind of honestly took went down any rabbit holes. I.

A

Think we just amplified the importance of this so absolutely appreciate that is there a motion.

A

Motion to approve submission of the reposed documents and accept the fy24 to fy28 funding.

E

For interagency family preservation services, okay, that motion got second in discussion all in favor.

D

Aye: okay, okay; two for two approval to submit the proposal documents and accept the fy24-26 funding.

A

For promoting safe and stable families, okay, so again, this is another um similar situation where.

H

We have funding that we're going to be passing through to subcontractors, the carroll county, local.

H

Management board is requesting approval to submit a proposal and budget to renew the promoting safe.

H

And stable families program again, this is this- is funded through the department of human services.

H

And the safe and stable program is a partnership between the carroll county youth services, bureau.

H

And the family center of human services program of carroll county, the department.

H

Of social services and carroll county local management board also are involved. Obviously,.

H

Excuse me, the goal of this program is the establishment of permanency for young children.

H

In carroll county, the program provides three strategies, as the partners seek to achieve the.

H

Goals of providing support and intervention services to prevent to prevent children from.

H

Entering into foster care situations to provide support and assist so that children returning.

H

Home from foster care situations and their parents have a successful transition and then also to move.

H

Children into secure and permanent positions as quickly as possible when reunification is.

H

Not an option: the partnership works closely with the entire childhood and child welfare.

H

Community to ensure and develop a responsive service system, and it can provide a continuum.

H

Of family and mental health services to support, strengthen and preserve families in carroll, county.

H

um So through this 83 044 is designated for carroll county youth services bureau, while the.

H

Other is for fifty seven thousand to hsp's family center program. The family center works with folks.

H

Zero to five years of age, whereas the other the youth services bureau, works with individuals and.

H

Families, age two through seven for this program, so the total pass-through allocation is a hundred.

H

And forty thousand dollars to both of those entities in total, okay, any comments, questions.

A

Just feel blessed that we have you guys sitting in front of us doing all this work. Is there a.

A

Motion motion to approve the submission of the proposed documents and accept the fy 24 to fy.

E

26 funding for promoting safe and stable families. Second, I got a motion. I got a second discussions.

A

In here, none all in favor, aye, aye. Okay, thank you, ladies thank you both very much thank you.

A

Okay, um now, let's go and talk about manchester annexation, number 41, patapsco, 91, llc.

L

Good morning, commissioners, good morning, we are here today to present to you annexation.

L

41 for manchester patapsco 91 llc, we do have alex perricone from the town.

L

Of manchester with us today to answer any questions, this is the first time you're.

L

Seeing this annexation request- and this also has a zoning waiver attached to it so with.

L

That hannah weber from our department is here to present to you the annexation information.

M

With that good morning, commissioners, we are here for a manchester annexation.

M

So this annexation area is approximately 13.92 acres. There is access to jammer.

M

Drive a private drive and then also washington way via briar way. This.

M

Annexation area is being petitioned by the property owner, which is patapsco 91 llc.

M

Here you can see that we are on the southern end of the area of manchester inside the municipal.

M

Growth area here it you can see it is part of an existing enclave, which means that this, as well as.

M

The adjoining parcels are completely surrounded by the town of manchester's corporate limits.

M

This now is, um it goes against maryland state code, the an enclave but annexing this piece of.

M

Area would shrink that enclave size and it was originally annexed prior to that.

M

Enclave rule- and you can see there are also other enclaves inside the town of manchester.

M

So here you can see in aerial view of the annexation area. It is slightly improved with.

M

Some dwellings, but there is nobody that currently resides on the property. The petitioner has stated.

M

That they are intending to develop the annexation area when annexed into 14 residential lots.

M

The current zoning under the county is our 40 000 and conservation. They, the petitioners.

M

Have requested to be placed into the r 10 000 and conservation zoning districts in the town.

M

Of manchester is that what the surrounding area is, so the surrounding area is actually.

M

um R15 um yeah sorry yeah in the town of manchester.

M

And, oh, I'm sorry, actually r20 no r15 or 15. yeah. So the plan is to keep the conservation piece. The.

M

Same when it is annexed, and then the r40 000 piece that surrounds that would be placed into the r 10.

M

000. so since the r 10 000 zoning district is 50 percent more dense than the counties are 40 000.

M

Zoning district, that um that requires the zoning waiver and that has been requested by the town.

M

The designated land use for the annexation area is medium density.

M

Residential, this is taken from the 2018 manchester comprehensive plan.

M

The area is actually in the no service categories for water and sewer, but the town of manchester.

M

Is currently working with the department of planning into bringing the annexation area.

M

Into the priority service area for both water and sewer to develop the property after annexation,.

M

So we have received no agency comments. um The department of planning is just recommending.

M

The town of manchester give public notice by posting the property prior to the date of the.

M

Public hearing and notifying all adjoining property owners of the public hearing.

M

This past tuesday, the county planning commission met and gave this annexation a favorable.

M

Recommendation to you all, the department of planning is giving a favorable recommendation on.

M

The annexation and the accompanying zoning waiver today we are here for no action or informational.

M

Briefing, if you guys, are ready to make a motion today, that is certainly a prerogative, but if.

M

Not we have a time scheduled next thursday, the 27th for your official approval, denial of the.

M

Zoning waiver and then forwarding the comment letter to the town of manchester okay. Thank you.

A

um And I apologize: are there any public comments prior? I should have said prior to this.

N

Weird, how that happens good morning, commissioners, kelly schaefer miller, 73, east main street.

O

Westminster maryland 21157, I'm here this morning on behalf of the applicants or petitioners in this.

O

Case patapsco 91, patapsco 91 is an entity that's owned by mr john sarah and mr shane mcquay, who are.

O

Both carroll county residents and small business owners in our community- mr sarah, is here with us.

O

This morning, I also have linda alexander from clsi, who has prepared the platt and the accompanying.

O

Materials in case there are any questions of this board. I did just briefly want to state uh kind.

O

Of in answer to mr rothstein's question that the request for the r-10 zoning district for a portion.

O

Of this property, the rest being conservation would result in development. That's consistent with the.

O

Surrounding area the surrounding area is zoned r15, but has been developed under manchester's.

O

um uh What what clustering provision I was lacking. The word there, which has resulted in development.

O

Consistent with the r-75 district, we have had meetings with the town's planning, commission and.

O

Marin council, on this petition it will go back for a formal public hearing in may, but some of.

O

That discussion was specific to the lot yield on this property. So there's been a commitment of a.

O

Maximum of 14 lots with the town of manchester that information was also in hannah's staff.

O

Report but I wanted to point that out to you so thus far, it's been the comment from the town's.

O

Planning, commission that the plans that they've seen the concept plans have been consistent with.

O

That surrounding area and so far they've been supportive, although, like I said it has not gone to.

O

An official mayor and council vote yet at a public hearing, so I'm here happy to answer any questions.

O

We also have mr perricone from the town of manchester as well. Thank you very much. Thank you.

A

um Any questions yes um will: will this have any clustering? Will this end up.

D

With any open space, or will the lots take up the whole property? This will result in.

O

Clustering to get the lot yield of 14, it will be clustered to be consistent with.

O

The surrounding development and that will result in open space. In addition,.

O

To the conservation zoning district, which will also not be developed on this parcel.

A

Okay, chris, you could take down the clock. um Thank you. Any other questions.

D

um Does the town have any reservations whatsoever about this.

P

Good morning, commissioners alex pericardony town administrator, neither town does not. We.

P

Support this annexation, so I apologize with that said that one map um of manchester with.

A

I want to see some of the donut holes, some of the parcels that are yeah. It's the left.

A

Is there an intent from the town to also identify those properties.

A

And so, as part of this process, specifically with this property, we had the petitioner notify those.

P

Residents who are still be in the county if they would like to join in this annexation, and there.

P

Was a no response to joining from those uh homes? Okay, however, as part of our process, the planning.

P

Commission will work if this goes through will require the developer to have sewer and water.

P

Outlets at the edge of the property for the time when those individuals or future homeowners decide.

P

To come into the town of manchester okay yeah part of this decision. But since you joined us how long.

D

Have you been town manager? I started december 23rd, so we finally got rid of steve miller.

D

He just he just walked home and didn't come back to work how's that, okay, because I took his box.

P

And left him nailed. Thank you yeah. I would get away from the mic before there's other things to.

A

Be said, um so we have an option to either just accept what was provided and give it a week or.

A

With what was said to make a motion and move on to the recommended annexation of number 41 patapsco.

A

To patapsco 91 llc, so we need two motions: one for forwarding the comments and one specifically.

L

For the zoning waiver, the zoning waiver is the action that is required. It's both in.

K

The if you want to make the motion right and does anybody have any heartache if we do the.

D

Second, and not have them come back yeah. I agree I mean well, I always prefer to give residents and.

B

People are joining to properties, a opportunity to make sure they're aware of this. If this is.

B

Happening so I always prefer to go a little slower, but uh I mean, if that's the motion.

E

What are your thoughts I mean, I personally would agree with that, giving them the opportunity to.

E

Speak as well, if, if you know they have any concerns, and it's not trying to intrude on.

E

The jurisdiction of manchester at all, but but you know, I agree, giving the public a.

E

Greater amount of time to to you know relate their thoughts if they have them.

D

Will will the public other than our meeting see anything new in the next week? No, there will be.

L

Nothing new and they have a public hearing process through the town of manchester. That.

L

Will be following this, so that's part of the process that they have to have this public.

L

Hearing for their mayor and town council, so this is just for our recommendation and our comments.

K

Right, just so, for my clarity, the the town ultimately has the say, and they could decide to or.

K

Not to annex this correct um and the only action and why it's critical, for you is the zoning waiver.

L

If you do not issue a zoning waiver with this request, then they cannot rezone for five years and.

L

It puts everything on hold for five years, so in other words, to go from zoned um forty thousand to.

L

They would not be permitted to do so under state law. Does it negative? Does it affect.

D

Anybody here in a negative way, if we wait a week, you guys are fine with that right.

D

You'd love to see us we're happy to come back next week if you'd like us to. I did briefly.

O

Just want to say that this has gone to planning commission at two meetings and then today, all.

O

And there has been no public attendance at any of those meetings as well. So no comments note that.

O

For your information, okay, so is there a motion to either leave as is, or I mean like in other.

A

Words, no, the motion would only be two would only be um to approve sign forward. The comment letter.

K

Etc, as it's written in so either make that motion or take no action and see you again next week, so.

D

You guys want to wait right. I don't well two of you, I mean it's just I mean I think I've.

B

Been fairly consistent in in wanting to wait and give people at least a week, but just to clarify.

B

Something we've had annexations come before us and we've approved them as a board, but you just.

B

Mentioned that if we don't that won't happen in this case, no, so actually the opposite. So unless.

L

Sony lever, you're on only legal authority is the zoning waiver. If there is no zoning waiver.

L

You're, just simply forwarding comments that we have obtained from other agencies to let.

L

The town know where some issues might be with a particular annexation, but the town has the.

L

Right to annex because the agreement is within the municipal growth area, that's been mutually.

L

Agreed upon by this body at some point in time and the town of where their ultimate corporate limits.

L

Will be, this is kind of different because it's filling in a space surrounded by already existing.

L

Corporate limits, but the only action required for this board to take is for the zoning waiver.

L

So we do the comment as courtesy and to be helpful to the townsend to help.

L

For forward the process along because we also work with our state partners and things like.

L

That so we we recently had a situation similar to this with westminster that came before us and.

B

We ironed out some concerns and then there was the buffalo property down in mount airy. We voted.

B

On those annexations, so you're saying that the difference between those and this one is that it's.

B

With it, because it's within the count, the town to annex the property or not, what you voted on was.

L

Forwarded in the comment letter- okay, that's what you voted on now. This is actually an action that.

L

Would either be to the detriment or benefit of the town, depending on what action you take with the.

L

Zoning waiver? Okay, so that the annexation piece itself that would come back regardless at some.

L

Point in the municipality and annexation is really by right to the municipality. The board's only.

K

um Yay or nay, if the is the is the waiver, I I don't it's almost as if um the the town doesn't.

K

Need to come to the county at all if it's just annexation, um if there's no zoning waiver, I don't.

K

Know that that's 100 and I'm not suggesting we change the practice, because I think it works.

K

Out well for everyone, but um but but but but they pretty much have they being the towns pretty much.

K

Have as long as it's in within that municipal growth area have unfettered right to annex the.

K

Property sure- and I don't think that's not my intention to change no, no right, but I know after.

B

Each one of these annexations we've we've signed the the uh the maps as well. So that's different.

L

That's the end of the process after the annexation goes through I'll, make sure I understood, and that.

L

Would happen, regardless of if they came to you or not, so to speak, even if we didn't do this.

L

Particular process: at the end of the day, you would get those maps because they are official.

L

Zoning maps and now you're, showing the series once was in the county and now it's in the corporate.

L

Limits and you remove it from our official zoning boundary. That's really what that action.

L

Is and then the town records, whatever their zoning map, is separately from our official now. These are.

A

Really good questions for clarity because it does become complex, and um so I I appreciate you doing.

A

This, because not just you but all of us, but also the community, because when we talk about this.

A

It gets to be confusing, and so this action is currently it is r40 and conservation. The request.

A

Is to do a zoning waiver to our 10 000 and concert conservation and conservation or ten thousand in.

A

Conservation, knowing that the town and everybody's supportive of it and the expectations that the 14.

A

Homes would conform to the community clustered with some open space. In you know, alone. Right is.

A

That but I mean that's on to them: that's not ours, but just knowing the intent right. Okay, so we can.

A

Either you know keep this as a um informational informational or we can make a decision to allow.

A

For the zoning waiver to occur and the process move forward, that's kind of where we're at so.

E

I mean again, I have no objection to the waiver of the annexation. I just you know, as commissioner.

E

Garen said favor waiting a week just to see if there's any comment or anything else again, that's.

B

Exactly it, I'm not, I'm not fundamentally opposed to any of this, but you know I am respectful of.

B

The fact that this is uh this is district two and uh very much a part of your neighborhood, so.

D

Yeah, I'm I'm very comfortable with it. The the engineer, the prospective owner, the town and county.

D

Planning all seem like this is a good thing to do and I'd love to see it in manchester. So are you.

A

Motioning to sign I'd love zoning waiver. If two of you are again, I don't want it to be a three to.

D

Two vote: if you want a week to think about it, I'm okay with that well, would there be a difference to.

A

You as the commissioner for okay district two, I mean that's that may we'll find out. If that's what.

A

You want, I move that the board approves, sign and forward the comment letter, including approval of.

D

Zoning waiver to the town of manchester regarding manchester annexation, number 41, patapsico, 91, llc.

A

Okay and I'll second, that and um yeah, I appreciate that that the difference or the.

A

What do you call that legislation enabling legislation when they have something for a.

A

County or jurisdiction, you know it's deference, is the right word. It's respect and yeah and.

A

It's a big word. I don't typically use so I appreciate getting the validity from my.

A

Colleague to the left is that your word of the day today, I'm not sure what it is.

D

And and the town will have public meetings and all that will happen, so I'm comfortable that everybody.

D

Around it's going to get proper notice and have their day and so far they haven't wanted it. But if.

D

They want it you'll hear from them. So, commissioner, karen does that help alleviate your concerns.

E

Okay, okay, so I got a motion. I got a second any further discussion, indifference. Okay, all in favor.

Q

Aye aye, okay, 5-0! Thank you great. Thank you so much. Thank you all very much.

E

Let's, uh let's have a conversation about a text amendment referencing to allowing.

A

Recreational cannabis any use in carroll, county um and just prefaces before we get into this, I.

A

Also reached out just so, you all know I reached out to both um chris heinen also to uh linda.

A

Getting a lot of comments about vape shops and other activity, legal activity, but the signage.

A

Is getting to a point where you get those big signs all over and and I talked to uh chris and.

A

I'm not putting one into the same basket as the other, but you know we did talk about this.

A

And the signage, unfortunately, is in um uh easements and it's it's very hard to govern.

A

um So it's frustrating because the community say: well, we don't want vapes and we don't want to. I.

A

Said I got it, I understand, but that's not for us to choose. You know from the county.

A

um But there's a lot of very deliberate signage, that's going up and vape shops, cbd and all this.

A

Other stuff, and then it feeds kind of into this, which brings a concern. So I just want to throw.

A

That out there that the communities kind of out there talking about that. So I'm not sure.

R

The community wants the government regulating the content on signs either. I well no, except where the.

R

Signs are placed where the signs are placed, yes, but the content and no, no, the the content's not.

A

It's it's the where the signs are placed being overwhelming to the community saying: why are we.

A

Allowing signs right up on the curbs of these, they are not legal. We have an ordinance that prohibits.

K

That we do have it it's just very difficult to enforce. That's correct. We have an ordinance that.

A

Prohibits it, however, the enforcement of it becomes very challenging because it's.

A

Overwhelming so maybe- and we've done it before messaging, trying to get it out there.

A

um But it becomes, you know the and our dpw folks, as they drive around.

K

um The area frequently do pick up those signs, the most egregious ones.

A

um That I mean the mattress, sale signs and vape signs seem to be pretty. You know.

A

You can maybe step up that effort as the spring is here. What do you think doug, okay, so before.

A

We're going to talk about cannabis, we're going to allow mr doug brown to good morning. Commissioners.

S

So certainly we do with our roads operations, anything that lies within our right-of-way or.

S

What some refer to as the eastman area, uh we do go around and policeos as we're out in the community.

S

We try to pick those up and get those off, because, just like you, we also hear from our customers that.

S

Say we don't like all these signs up next to the road? Is there anything we can do, but as a county.

S

Administrator said as quickly as we take them down, they seem to print these by the hundreds and they.

S

Come back up, but we we do certainly try to take a proactive approach and we can have if you will.

S

We'll I'll re-emphasize that to the troops and we'll try to get back out and after that, a little.

S

Harder, please do so, and I just I I apologize it's just it's brought to attention. It's an annoyance.

A

And I think we're probably all aware of it. So just I want the community to know we're listening.

A

Do what we can, but it's not our position as our county attorney shared. What's on those signs.

A

If it's legal, it's legal and we correct will not opine on that. Yes, sir, and so my question was you.

E

Taking down the signs, I mean, are we able to levy fines against repeat offenders, and, if not, is that.

E

Something that we can look into because that seems like that would go a long way toward enforcement.

E

If you know you take down one sign and then next day it's back up well, there's a thousand dollar.

E

Fine yeah, I think uh so I would I'll turn to the county attorney. With regard to fine, however, what I.

S

Would say, is it often becomes a who did it? uh What I mean is, who stuck that sign? There did someone.

S

Relocate it did they pick it up from somewhere else, so we, the burden of proof, would be on us to.

S

Prove that a company actually stuck it within that right away when someone else could have gotten it.

S

From a much like a political sign and say: okay, I'm putting it out here because I want everyone.

S

To see what's going on, so we haven't done that and we try to be good community partners and good.

S

Business partners, quite frankly, because we know people are trying to operate regardless of what.

S

Their business model is, and so we try to talk to them. First and generally, we get compliance, but it.

S

Is a constant effort required and I'm not trying to derail this topic, but it kind of you know it's.

A

On my mind and it's an annoyance um so yeah I mean mr burke, do you have any uh thoughts or comments.

A

On either fines or a way to curb the signage signs are addressed in the in the zoning ordinance. We'll.

R

Take a look at that and see if that's an option: okay. Okay. Thank you. Both any other discussion on.

A

That I just want to kind of throw it out there. Okay, now from that, let's talk about recreational.

A

Cannabis, so I'm also accompanied by mary lane and additional hannah weber and we're going to.

L

Change that misnomer- and I apologize that it's in the briefing paper uh labeled this way, but really.

L

Adult use is the proper terminology and that's been defined by the state of maryland as such. So.

L

We're going to continue to refer to this as adult use, as you know, from your briefings from mr fowler.

L

That the legislative session did approve adult use cannabis in addition to the medical cannabis.

L

In the state of maryland, it will take effect on july 1.. Why we're here from a planning and.

L

Zoning perspective is that this can be regulated to a limited extent within your zoning ordinance.

L

For us to address it within the zoning ordinance, we need your referral to the planning commission.

L

For them to have discussions on this, um so with that uh just to give a little summary of the.

L

Legislation is that, as I said this past session, the maryland general assembly uh allows and.

L

Voted to approve the permit, the selling growing of adult or recreational use in the state of maryland.

L

Jurisdictions have zoning authority over adult use cannabis, but they cannot unduly burden the.

L

Cannabis licensee, meaning we can't zone it out of existence. um You can't make it so onerous.

L

That no zoning category within your county, where it's placed would be able to meet the law. So you.

L

Know that's something to consider and that we have we do have, though, the ability to prohibit on-site.

L

Consumption establishments- that is something that the law did give latitude to local jurisdictions.

L

To say we don't want to allow this, don't want to get too much into the law. My understanding is.

L

That they're only going to be issuing 50 of those types of licenses for now in the state of maryland.

L

Currently, we only have two medical dispensaries in carroll county and those are both in the city.

L

Of westminster's corporate limits, that's not to say that this could apply to county land as well.

L

Currently, we allow the facility for dispensing of medical cannabis as a principal permitted use in.

L

The c2 zone and the c3 zone following certain book requirements and setback regulations much.

L

Of this has been laid out in state law for the medical use, with its proximity to schools, daycares.

L

Religious establishments and then we allow the facilities for dispensing in conjunction with.

L

Growing and processing in the industrial one in the industrial two zoning districts.

L

Currently, the distance requirement is 400 feet from any residence district.

L

Including the agricultural district, where a residence acreages, three acres or less and.

L

Any lot occupied by I said a school religious establishment or institution for human care.

L

So um the general regulations for the growing processing and dispensing is outdoor growing.

L

Of medical cannabis is prohibited in all districts, so that has to do with.

L

um And I don't want to get into the maryland- I'm not well versed in it, but has to do with.

L

um Security issues fencing the ability to secure the site, so those are only allowed actually an.

L

Indoor type of facilities in the state currently again lighting shall meet our current lighting.

L

Plans, we do have lighting plans that are required for site development, where the light lighting.

L

Display can't leave the property, the lumens can't extend beyond the property boundary.

L

um And again, you would need a site plan that goes through a planning, commission approval and.

L

We are not granting variances for distance in this section. A lot of times, variances are for different.

L

Things where we can come in and say you know that distance requirement is 100 feet. We'd like to.

L

Change that to 50 feet first, some typical hardship that is not brought about by the applicant.

L

um That's something that's just in innate in the property itself, so all of those things.

L

Would be looked at moving forward with the recreational, I would tell you, as of july 1.

L

Again, my understanding is that current medical facilities can be converted over to a medical.

L

Slash adult use, so medical use as an allowance will still remain as a specific type of use.

L

Under the maryland general assembly law, the adult use is a separate definition and a separate law.

L

Under the maryland general assembly, but medical dispensaries can then convert at that point in.

L

Time to the adult use dispensary as of july 1 and then new adult use only could come forward within.

L

The regulations to be permitted, so the I think, big direction we would need from you- is the allowance.

L

Of on-site usage, whether you want to allow it or prohibit it or within certain circumstances,.

L

And any other conditions you see applicable to this use that would not unduly burden.

L

um The industry, so I have three suggestions. If you don't mind me leading off the discussion on.

E

This could I ask one quick question, of course, um so you said currently: there's 50 potential sites.

C

In maryland, for on-site, is that what I always understand, that's my understanding of the law.

L

That their own and again all this is going to be licensed and regulated through the alcohol.

L

Tobacco and cannabis commission, which is a newly established commission for this particular use.

L

Adding it to the alcohol and tobacco, so they will be the regulatory body and authority for.

L

Ministry and licenses for all of this, including my understanding, is that on-site consumption.

L

Component, okay, and so at this point I'm going to make the assumption- which I don't like to make.

C

Assumptions they haven't given out any of these 50.. Nothing has happened. This commission is just.

L

Being formed and established and we are waiting to hear more guidance um but for us the first.

L

Step is just making sure that you are sending into planning commission. We are in a hurry to to move.

L

And expedite this, but at least if we reference to planning commission as things come forward from.

L

This particular regulatory body, then we can have those conversations with our planning and zoning.

L

Commission to make sure that we're thoroughly discussed and vetting this proposed zoning change.

L

Okay, thank you, commissioner bigley. No, thank you, commissioner gordon. So first I would say zero.

E

On-Site consumption, no on-site consumption, I mean, I know that marijuana is delivered in any number.

E

Of ways these days, but we do not want to add to any of the dangers that may be on the road that.

E

Somebody typically encounters on a day-to-day basis either. uh The second thing um I don't.

E

Know whether or not our what we have right now does or does not have some kind of a nuisance.

E

Caveat for for a neighbor, for example, if I have a business next to a dispensary and they are.

E

Not uh you know clean or this the smell is overwhelming or they are somehow deterring.

E

From customers coming into my store, what is my process for making a complaint about it or.

E

Trying to have that situation taken care of, so I think there has to be some kind of a nuisance.

E

Wave or something in there that allows rights to surrounding property owners, business owners.

E

Residents whatever to to take action and then the last thing I'll ask is so the 400 foot requirement.

E

I'm given to understand- and please correct me if I'm wrong- that the maximum distance is 500 feet.

K

It is 400, so we cannot increase that to 500. well in our zoning code.

T

Sure asking, but we could provide you with information if you increased it beyond the.

T

400, you may be unduly burdening them, because when you look at all the potential c2 and c3 sites and.

T

You draw more than 400 feet around it. You may be eliminating, but when we designed this, it's not a.

A

Maximum, it's a minimum of 400 feet that a facility cannot be in place any less than 400 feet right.

E

And so I'm I'm so you're to extend that extend. I I see what you're saying sure and that might.

L

Be that unduly burden, as mary said, a lot of our c2 and even a lot of our c3 properties are small.

L

um Especially the c2, which is the preponderance of our um uh retail zoning district and they're.

L

Small, I mean they might be a an eighth of an acre fifth of an acre. You know they might be 400 by.

L

400., so that would be maybe unduly eliminating districts, but we don't know until we would do.

L

That, but that's something we can look at. I would very much appreciate that and that's one of the.

E

Reasons why I brought up the uh the idea of having that that nuisance, part of of the.

E

The the ordinance, because, um again you know it's kind of like going back to the side. You cannot.

E

Regulate what is on the sign, um you know I can't necessarily regulate what kind of business opens.

E

Up somewhere, but I want to make sure that anyone in that surrounding area has the right to some.

E

Recourse um because again you know it is not. You know your typical everyday business they're, not.

E

Doing uh you know potato chip sales or something they're not doing um you know they're, not they're,.

E

Not it's not a pet store. You know this is a totally different kind of business. You know.

E

For our county and again, I want to make sure that anybody again this is the state. That's handed this.

E

Down to us, I want to make sure that our residents have some kind of recourse to this right and since.

L

We have none in the county, it would not make anything in the county currently non-conforming.

L

um But westminster I'm not sure how they'll handle this, but just an fyi. So um I appreciate that. No, I.

E

Just making sure that that some kind of nuisance- I don't know what you would call it nuisance clause.

E

Something in place I mean, is that the right term analogy tim, some kind of something that.

E

Allows people still have to be operated in a clean, orderly, yeah, you know, or it could be, it would be.

R

A zoning violation we'd have to work on it, yeah we don't typically regulate nuisance via zoning, so we.

L

Would have to have that discussion, I'm um because we're just specifically talking about the 158 and.

L

The 155 would be our purview if there's something that goes into other chapters. We'd have to have.

L

Other discussions revolving around those and I'm not sure that nuisance fits into the zoning.

L

Category but something in place again: it's not like you know you move into a neighborhood that.

E

Borders pharma- and you know, you're going to get the smells of manure at certain times of year.

E

And you know you accept that, because that's just normal part of living in a rural county.

E

um So you know, but again, if a marijuana business opens up next to my my bookshop or something right.

E

And and the smell or or people are hanging out on the sidewalk or something and they're deterring.

E

My ability to do business processing it though they're just selling it, but but they're right.

K

They're not allowed to do it, we're consuming it. Well. Thank you. You don't allow that. No, that's.

A

What I'm saying they're not concerned they're, not they're, not consuming, that's correct, but.

E

There are, there are still things like smells that emanate from from this, and- and I have no idea so.

A

It could be no, I I appreciate I mean yes, I'm I'm good just a couple questions because I don't know.

A

um I know what you know cannabis was, uh I don't know what cannabis is now as far as consumption.

A

You know um I hear about like goomies and all this kind of other stuff in consumption, so I don't know.

A

If it's the historical way of consuming, you know through smoking, it or other things, but.

A

um But that is, you know, a concern dealing with. You know that smell lemonade and that kind of stuff.

A

When we were doing the zoning um for medical marijuana, we got into a very.

A

Serious conversation about distances from schools and from other locations.

A

um One of my colleagues was very animate that he wanted it nowhere's near.

A

And I was not as animate, but I was saying: if it's medically distributed, then we should.

A

You know encourage the appropriate use and said well, anybody can get a card and things like that.

A

I said: well, we should enforce the the medical piece of it. If that's what's being allowed, you.

A

Know regardless, if I agree with it or not, um and and govern it in that manner, that's how we kind.

A

Of got out to the 400 feet, you know it was. It was much farther out than 400 feet in the discussion.

A

um So if we want to make adjustments to that, especially since there's only two facilities now.

A

That would not pertain to this because they're in the city of westminster, okay, so so we have.

L

Nothing right now, so we can. We can take a look at that appropriately and I have no issue with.

A

Distance because 400 feet is really not that far. You know it's a football field. um You know.

A

There's there's a balance between encouragement. uh You know this capability or this sales.

A

And um discouraging and acceptance well, we we were saying that comfort level and acceptance.

A

Level on other actions, um maintaining carroll, county's culture and community- I mean these.

A

Are all parts that play into this um you know, uh but the fact is that it is being allowed.

A

um It was voted on whether we agree with it or not. um So I think you're coming to us today.

A

To get a bit of guidance but to really get to planning and zoning commissions.

A

um Work, you know on this to get them to say: okay, what does what does right look like and then.

A

Come back to us with the recommendations, that's really what you're asking for absolutely okay! So.

A

I mean it's not to fix all the problems you know today, but you know I just.

A

You know we're we're out of the blue laws, we're out of um the dry counties, we're out of.

A

Certain activities again, whether we agree with them or not, um but there's a balance between.

A

That and the allowance there's a balance between maintaining our our culture and you know allowing.

A

This and ultimately protecting our citizens, who do not want a part of it. I I understand.

A

But nefarious activities don't have borders, you know we don't have a moat around the county and.

A

I don't want to make it easier for the county to get certain things, but I also want to be realistic.

A

Saying that okay, this community right outside you can get you know x, um so I mean I I understand.

E

It's difficult because I don't agree with the recreational use um personally, but from the.

A

Diocese, I can't you know also say that, in a sense that it has been agreed upon um through you know,.

A

Referendum and through now being legislated, you know at the state level.

A

um So we can be further restrictive and I think we we should be where it's not to be on unduly unduly.

A

Another big word unduly burdesome, um but I mean yeah I'd be very interested to see.

A

What the plain zoning commission! I think it's a very diverse group that we have on planning.

A

And zoning to come back to us with some ideas, but, okay, that's those are my thoughts.

A

um Any any thoughts I have a couple: um the land use categories that you've designated on here.

D

Is that the only ones it will be allowed in? Well, that's what it's currently allowed for.

L

The medical, so we can reevaluate, all of is it pressure from the state to open it up more or.

D

Not really so far again, it's it's up to you. Do have the local land use autonomy to decide.

L

What districts you want to go in for the medical discussion? The board felt at the time that these.

L

Were appropriate districts for the dispensing and growing and dispensing these these.

D

Properties are most of them in public water and sewer or not really, it.

L

We only have that in the freedom area. I don't think in finksburg there's a few. Oh yeah, maybe.

L

Finksburg too, there's a few um and the c2 other than the freedom in finksburg area. We don't and.

L

A little bit around westminster as well c1 is probably a the most commercial. That's on.

L

While on septic and then the I want i2, I would say similar yeah and I don't. I haven't paid attention.

D

To the medical sites, I was involved with one and it needed a lot of water and.

D

They were trying to get permission to use, recycled, water and gray water. Is that allowed here or that.

D

Would have to be, I don't know what the state's regulations are as far as the consumption of.

L

Water and the usage, and it wasn't written in the bill as such, it was more just the allowance of.

L

The facilities and the usage- and they did not really address in this legislation- the growing.

L

Of the medical cannabis- and I believe, there's only so many licenses of that, but now you also.

L

Have personal you're allowed to grow for your own personal consumption as well, but.

D

The uh the the ones growing to sell are they restricted to only growing indoors.

D

Too, I don't think.

K

I could change under this regular regulatory commission. We just don't. We don't have enough.

L

Information yet yes, so that's why we're going to be very slow and deliberate in how we approach.

L

This I've gotten some contact from people and I think I think they're wrong and I hate to open.

D

Up pandora's box, but what they have, um what um who cares? um They thought this was a great boom for ag.

D

Ricultural people in carroll county, but as I see it it it may not be zoned in those areas.

D

And it has to be indoors and, like I say, what I've seen of the medical sites, that.

D

We propose to people, they didn't get the license, so we didn't get to follow through.

D

It was the water requirement was really really heavy so that that right now there there isn't.

D

Any indication that this is going to be ag people- and you know you- don't grow it like tobacco as.

D

Much as people think you do yeah or the hemp either. That's awesome. I mean a lot of people.

L

May confuse that too, because hemp is allowed to be grown, and I do understand that from people that.

L

Live near, it can be smelly on certain times of the year. That's completely different and does not have.

L

The thc levels that cannabis does and that can be done outside yeah that can be done outside.

L

And that's more for fiber and those types of products ropes yeah now for the the sale.

D

If, if we were to restrict the products, they're selling, that's probably.

D

Undo that that's probably not fair to them, but I know a lot of people.

D

Are more open to smoking than they are to gummies being all over the place? And but we can't restrict.

D

That no, we can't permanent against the type of what someone's selling that's. What I thought.

A

Sounds like the sentiment is slower the better in developing. I understand it is I mean, but.

A

um Yeah I'll uh I'll make a few comments. First of all, let's be clear: uh cannabis is a dangerous drug.

B

And it is not the same cannabis that you're referencing and I you ask a good question.

B

And it's much more powerful in thc levels are much higher and clinical studies have.

B

Already said that this is not a calming the the result of smoking. A lot of this, it's not.

B

A it doesn't have a calming effect on the long term, people develop psychosis and all kinds of.

B

Other issues, the state, you know we haven't really we're going to be struggling with.

B

How to handle people who are driving? Why, while stoned or whatever you want to call them, there's.

A

No testing and the issue of the different delivery methods is very problematic because.

B

If you're ingesting it, you know you, you can ingest a large amount of it and wait for a result by the.

B

Time the result starts you've already taken too much and you're in your and you're deathly ill.

B

As opposed to other methods, you know so sometimes you know when you you get you've got you've got a.

B

Choice between a bad decision and a worse decision, sometimes the best decisions to do nothing, and I.

B

Don't I don't, I know that the maryland general assembly passed this law. They passed a lot of.

B

Bad laws, even though they knew that other states who have already experimented with this usage.

B

Are regretting it and some of them are very left-leaning types of states. So I again this.

B

Is no reflection on the the the the motion and the briefing itself, but I I don't know why we.

B

Have to do anything right now we shouldn't well. My question would be by doing something.

D

Are we being proactive and maybe being as more as restrictive as we're allowed to be, as opposed if.

D

We do nothing we're subject to just whatever the state says. That's what I like. I would like to say.

D

I wouldn't want to see us open it up, probably beyond these land use areas, but the state may.

D

Well, do that so are we being proactive or you know, because I feel a little bit like you do, but then I.

D

Feel, like I don't want to six months from now say: oh heck, we should have done something. I don't want.

A

I don't want to stay telling our story yeah. Well, I understand that and they're going to do that. No.

B

Matter what I mean, I think, we're all getting used to that theme, but if it doesn't it at some point.

B

I just feel as though, once you send it to planning and zoning commission, you have we as a elected.

B

Officials have started the process and I'm not at all kind of even comfortable with the process.

B

I'm not even comfortable with the fact that this could be in our county if people really want it.

B

That badly they can drive into another county and get it so I just I really question why and I can.

B

Tell you just from speaking I I rep the district that I represent: families, parents, grandparents,.

B

I mean nobody wants to see this as the next challenge to parenting. It's already hard enough.

B

And then the state goes ahead and makes this uh you know passes this law. I get it it's a law, but.

B

It's not going to make life any easier for for people in this county who have kids and.

B

Are trying to go about their daily lives in a county that they feel.

B

Is doing their is as their best interests in mind, so I I don't I I. I acknowledge the fact.

B

That this is an issue we're going to have to probably grapple with, but I I don't feel as.

B

Though I don't understand why we'd have to take any motion today, this general assembly just.

B

Ended a couple weeks ago right I mean, but I think tell me if I'm wrong, if we do lets them plan and.

D

They can't create anything final without us approving it once they work on it, so this is for.

D

You to get started and it would come back to us, correct sessions and public hearing and everything.

A

um Commissioner, because because I agree with what you're saying regarding the sentiment.

A

And it's not the general assembly, it's the state through referendum that allowed this.

A

um Now it's the legislation, the general assembly trying to put the bookends on.

A

The um the legality of it and you you know all that all that kind of stuff.

A

um So yeah I I rather tell our story the best we can um within the limits of whatever the general.

A

Assembly comes up with, or the law has come up with, but take it to a certain. As far as we can.

A

Say to the right, but to again who we are a very you know, a conservative approach um but yeah. I.

A

I rather tell our story than have somebody tell it for us and if it shoved down our throats, you.

A

Know- and we didn't take that opportunity, um it's like shame on us so and and it's it's.

A

Work, I mean that's what it is. It's staffing that we're asking them to do right now, so.

A

Because I didn't know about the potency and stuff like that, I had no idea. I have no idea.

A

um I just I'm not educate on this um well enough, uh so I appreciate that I'm.

A

That's interesting: this is yeah. This is not what was being passed around in the 1960s. I mean it.

E

Is it is countless times more potent and and more dangerous? I mean I've, read medical studies where.

E

The addiction rate is between eight and fifteen percent for first time use. So it's it's. You know.

E

And it is dangerous. I mean you're listening to uh individuals who have been through drug court.

E

Or or rehab, and then they more often than not, they say that marijuana was a gateway to heavier usage.

E

Which is again why I'm so confounded by the fact that you know we are fighting so hard against.

E

You know opioids and heroin and fentanyl, and here we are creating what is effectively a conduit for.

E

Use and and stepping forward to those drugs I mean. I know everybody says: oh you're, you know you must.

E

Be 90 years old, if you oppose this- and I know I'm the youngest one here and I I fiercely oppose this.

E

I mean I've I've seen what it's done to to friends of mine. I've seen I've seen what it's done to.

E

Other young people, my age and again listening to the the stories of these people who have.

E

Survived and have been through this, you know it is dangerous. So again, I can't understand how we, as a.

E

State can say, you know, we have to fight heroin, we have to fight fentanyl, we have to fight drugs and.

E

Again here we are creating a conduit to that kind of activity. So I so I have created emotion and you.

E

uh You can all agree or disagree with it, but so I motion that we forward the issue to the planning.

E

And zoning commission for their review and recommendation with the direction of making this.

E

As restrictive as possible and ensuring the rights and protections of the lives and safety of carroll.

E

County citizens expressing grave opposition to the state over the legalization of marijuana.

A

Support expressing grave opposition to the state over the legalization of.

E

Marijuana, basically, that we were doing this under protests, because we have no.

E

Other alternative, but we do need to be proactive to make it as restrictive as.

E

Possible and to move to protect the rights and lives of our citizens. While we have the.

E

Opportunity to do so before you get a second. Did you not want to put something in about no.

D

On-Site consumption- oh no! I I want that so I I okay and I think, you've taken yeah yeah that.

D

Was part of the description or do you want it part of the motion all right, so I will include.

E

No on-site consumer, no on-site consumption in the motion looking into increasing the maximum amount.

E

Of distance between businesses and also finding a way to ensure complaints, whatever the correct.

E

Terminal not nuisance, but a way to ensure that residents have the right to recourse over this.

A

Okay, can you repeat that motion before that I'll second it, but I also need to make.

D

I don't remember seeing you at any of my parties in the 60s. Sorry, I was a square back then.

E

But I was at home watching fire and lying firing line.

E

With william f buckley, okay, uh give you a second yes, I second, so I got a.

A

Very lengthy and specified motion- and I believe you captured- and I saw the second.

A

I'll open up for discussion because again it's.

A

One, it's it's comforting acceptance and honestly I I I must have had my head in.

A

The sand- I did not know about potency and things like that for some reason I just felt like it was.

A

Like you said back in the 60s and 70s like that's, uh I didn't know that.

A

um That's- and this is that's terrifying- here's an interesting side note the biggest investor.

E

In marijuana, right now is big tobacco. It's a tobacco companies that are investing in it more.

E

Than anybody, because they see fewer americans- are smoking cigarettes and they know they have a new.

E

Lucrative market with marijuana huh yeah, the irony of all this is, I thought smoking was bad right.

B

So did I so, but that's why I didn't think it was smoking. I thought it is no. No I I yeah, I thought.

A

It was innocent, I thought it was those goomies or something I didn't know. They're selling, but again.

A

I may have to go into one of these places and say: okay. What is this all about? Because I well.

A

And part of what they're part of what they're doing now is they're refining it for use in vape.

E

So it's not necessarily lighting up. You know a marijuana cigarette or a joint. It's you're you're.

E

Condensing it and putting it into vapable form and that delivers a higher concentration of it as well.

E

Same thing with, instead of smoking, a cigarette you're delivering a greater dosage of nicotine and.

E

From the tobacco versus smoking the cigarette, so it's again I the one derail it too far. I just.

A

A knife to it, I just I'm not naive, I mean it's learning for all of us. I mean I've been stunned.

E

Myself over the last couple of years, without involved so okay, so so we do have a motion. We have.

A

A second and the basic of the the motion is to um provide provide guidance and direction to the.

A

Planning zoning commission to you know, identify the you know the next steps and recommendations.

A

Back to the board of county commissioners is that um there's no timeline associated with this okay.

D

And I think, um based on some of the comments- and I think we've done well with that since december.

D

We need to make sure we really really put out the info for public comments for, for.

D

Their opportunity to come, tell us and and that's all part of the process, correct.

B

So, but no you're right, but we all know, what's going to happen, the activists, the people that.

B

Want to see this happen are going to show up in droves and the parents who are working.

B

Who are doing their job following the laws paying our taxes? They don't have time to come to these.

B

Meetings so we know exactly what's going to happen if we do have some hearings, I'm frustrated with.

B

The discussion, because it's a lousy law, it hurts carroll county, the general assembly. I don't you.

B

Know it seems like they are hell-bent on making maryland into a state that none of us are going.

B

To want to live in maybe that's their intent. Who knows, I don't get too political, but why not.

B

Show some resistance to this entire concept. Why not why? I mean why not say hold on a second, this.

B

Doesn't help carroll county? I don't. I think that it's going to make things worse, not better and.

B

And just hold off, I mean why not I mean what do we have to lose? uh Are they going to come in and.

B

File a lawsuit against the county. Well, then, put me on the put me on there as a plaintiff. I'm.

B

Fine with that because defended or defendant I'm sorry, a lawyer in the room put me on there as a.

B

Defendant, I just I mean I feel like I kind of feel like this is one of the reasons I'm here is to.

B

Look at things like this and go. This is complete bs for the state. So let's just play the game that.

B

The other side plays sometimes and uh just defer any action and maybe have some further discussions.

B

On how we want to how we want to handle it, so so I I agree with you, um I I mean everything you.

A

Just said, I agree with um accept that, in order for us to step up, you know going back to telling our.

A

Own story, getting the planning and zoning folks and the staff to take this on to come back to us.

A

um You know it's not to and the recommendations may go exactly where you're, where you're going.

A

um My biggest concern that I have seen uh whether it's here or in prior lives, when a higher.

A

Headquarters or a highest higher jurisdiction comes down, says you will do and I'm like dang. Why.

A

Didn't I tell my own story, so they don't come down and do that and there's more reluctance. That's.

A

I understand I mean that that's kind of where I'm at but everything you said the sentiment's.

A

There I agree so, and commissioner garen, I would humbly suggest that we could do both. We could.

E

Take proactive steps to make this as restrictive as possible in our county and if you're interested.

E

In I don't know whether we could file suit against the state. I have zero concern with.

E

That whatsoever, I have zero concern with trying to to you know, voice opposition in some capacity.

E

I have zero concern about that and if we do public comment, um maybe make sure it's in the.

D

Evening and unfortunately like some other issues, we have going on it's all about the money and yes.

D

We're going to hear companies and and developers come in here and try to out talk the parents and.

D

And the regular taxpayers we have, but I also I've been impressed how our planning and zoning and our.

A

Planners have received comments via emails and texts and even when we receive them and people.

A

Say why are you doing this during the day? I can't make it, but I am fully and 100 against this. I push.

A

That over to linda or and they reach out to them and and ensure that they capture those comments.

A

um You know it's kind of one reason I have those town halls in the middle of the day and then the.

A

Evening, because you're right there's people that just cannot attend but everybody's voice matters.

A

And so I just again, I just so I know there's I know, there's always mechanics involved and.

B

I understand what you're saying I appreciate it. We always want to make our hearings as accessible as.

B

Possible but yeah just I mean the just the the common notion that or the the realization that.

B

The people in the county, who elected us to do the right thing there. They have lives they're.

B

Busy they do things every day, every night they're taking care of their kids they're working overtime,.

B

They're obeying the laws they're doing the things that we all do as family members as moms and dads.

B

And grandparents- and I just you, can you can already you already know what's where this is.

B

Going to go they're not going to be here, because they've got jobs to do and responsibilities and.

B

The the advocates for these for this law, whether somebody's making money or not, will be here to.

B

Been what I see a lot of times are just flat out lies about the benefits of of this drug.

E

And you're right, it is a drug, it is a drug.

A

Okay, I do have emotion, I do have a second. Is there any further discussion on this.

A

Okay, seen hearing none all in favor moving what we've shared to plan zoning commission for further.

A

uh Discussion and then come back to us, aye aye aye against no okay, four one. Thank you.

D

Thank you. I appreciate you all very much. Thank you. We didn't make it simple. Did we that's? Okay,.

A

No, we've provided very clear direction and it wasn't quite a rabbit hole. It.

A

Was one big nasty hole that we have to deal with and you're right? um The.

D

The average voter that put us here is who we need to think about absolutely agreed. Okay,.

A

Since that was so easy, let's make it a difficult one. 2023 hot mix asphalt, paving.

A

Gentlemen- oh I'm sorry, sorry about that. Carrie! That's! Okay!.

H

But he's just there for uh for strength and courage from behind. I guess I don't know.

A

Go ahead if you're the office of procurement, in cooperation with the bureau of engineering.

U

Request your approval to award the contract for the 2023 hot mix, asphalt, paving 2 to cj.

U

Miller llc and the amount of three million seven hundred fifty six thousand one hundred.

U

Eleven dollars and forty cents, this work consists of paving approximately 13.

U

.40 miles on 29 roadways, the county requested competitive, sealed bids and receive three.

U

Responses, this amount is within the adopted budget and no additional funds shall be necessary.

N

Okay, chris good morning um as this daily we're here to seek your concurrence toward our payment.

V

Preservation to contract for fy 23 to cj miller, llc, the 29 roadways 13.4 miles. The list is in.

V

Your briefing packet- hopefully, everyone has those this work and repair will preserve our.

V

Aging infrastructure we'll be doing full depth reclamation milling of pavement, placing of hot.

V

Mix asphalt, base and surface courses adjusting and rebuilding of inlets storm drain, pipe replacement.

V

Rebuilding of ada ramps, shoulder backup, mains of traffic and a series of other incidental items.

V

uh This project includes 100 working days and cj miller has a completed similar work for us in the.

V

Past, and I would like take a note to thank you for the recognition of the work's own awareness, this.

V

Week, this type of work is going to put between 15 and 25 workers each day for those hundred.

V

Days along our busy roadways, it's already been a troubling uh spring for us in the work zones.

V

So anything we can do to today, I believe, is social media awareness day tomorrow. We'll have our moment.

V

Of silence anything we can do to keep our our employees and and those and the workers of our.

V

Contractors to go home safe to their families is important. Yes, I appreciate it and just continue.

A

To remind us, the things that we can do from here, if there's an additional you're hitting, I think.

A

Every road is hitting one of us in the districts, so um any thoughts comments. Yes, um it's it's good.

D

I think all the commissioners are probably very happy that the county save 19 percent.

D

On on the public bid process, do you well not, do you know, do you put out the engineer's estimate is.

D

This uh with costs going up, even though this looks very competitive, it still might be pushing the.

D

Engineers estimate, or do you is that not something you put out? We do not share our engineers estimate.

V

Okay, so we do if it comes in over our engineers estimate, we do look to see. Why is there something.

V

That we missed something, everybody else missed this contract, the contractors and some of the bid.

V

Items they got very creative because I saw what somebody did previously and we're going to take.

V

Advantage of that creativity as much as we can to in the best interest of citizens, I saw rf klein.

D

Bid 10 cents on guard rail because they thought the jurisdiction wouldn't make them do it, and I.

D

Won't mention names, but one of your chief inspectors. I think they did about a mile.

D

Guard rail that year I feel like this is uh the price is right: everybody puts their numbers out.

A

And if uh they're all over, they start over so yeah yeah, but uh okay. um This will get us to.

A

This is still using 23 dollars, fy 23.. Yes, this is fy 23.. We have more to do within.

A

Fy 23: yes, we we had a bid that was released yesterday, okay, uh which is our actually our.

V

What we call pavement one we got behind for some staffing issues, but that'll be uh open. Sometime.

V

Mid-May, I believe so we'll be back here uh end of may 1st of june for concurrence on that. Okay,.

A

Okay, any uh discussion on this motion to award the contract for 2023 hot mix asphalt.

E

Paving 2 to cj miller llc in the amount of three million seven hundred fifty six.

E

Thousand one hundred eleven dollars and forty cents. Second, I got a motion. I got a second.

A

And discussions in here none all in favor, aye. Okay, thank you. Thank you.

A

Is there public comment for topics so far or no sorry any comments? No okay.

A

Okay: uh let's talk about pavement condition, surveys for the pavement management program.

V

Thank you as part of the department. I apologize chris before you go this list of roads. Is this.

A

Going to be publicly available, um so people know when roads are going to be so we will send out.

V

Letters to each one of the residents along those roadways, letting them know specifically what we're.

V

Going to be doing providing details of what that's going to be times of inconvenience and then every.

V

Week we put out a list of roadways, we're going to be doing up the upcoming week. Okay, I I apologize.

A

Can you off, I just no problem? Okay, thanks so as part of our department of public works, payment.

V

Asset management program, we conduct a conditioned survey of 931 center line models every two years.

V

This field survey indicates critical distresses in our roadways is inputted inputted in our agile.

V

Assets pavement management, software, which is used to develop our annual payment management.

V

Program list: this is the one of the tools we use to ensure we're performing the right treatment to.

V

The right roadways at the right time, the karcher group has been forming this pavement condition.

V

Surveys for carroll county for several years and they are one of our term contracts which.

V

Was previously competitively bid, so this work is for the next upcoming projects, we're going.

V

Every two years we go out and reassess all our roadways. Where are they and then we'll develop.

V

Our work program for the next five years out of this condition survey this uh commissioner.

S

Is just ahead would be sometimes if you write us, for example this year, and we have a customer who.

S

Says: hey where's, my road on the repaving schedule. We will come back with you with.

S

A response that often says well currently it's right here, but that could change based on the.

S

Conditions in the survey that we're constantly doing realizing that money isn't endless. We.

S

Constantly are re-changing and re-prioritizing to make sure that we're addressing the most.

S

Critical needs up front and that's what we bring to you as a result of what this group does for us.

V

So the report that we've receive will be financially constrained based on the projected budget right.

E

Motion to approve the department of public works to use the term contract.

E

With the kercher group to complete pavement condition, surveys in the amount of 103.

E

000 86 dollars. Second, I got a motion got second in discussion. Yeah please. So this is.

D

An annual term contract or longer than a year, so it's annual with uh four possible renewals.

D

Have they done it before? Yes, they've done this work for us for a good while.

A

Okay, any further discussion seen here, none all in favor, aye aye. Okay, thank you. Thank you very much.

A

Okay, let's talk about uh fy 23 farmer, scrap tire drop off event.

A

Hey chris by chance, do you have that one photo of a feet available? I do. Can you pop it up? There.

A

A

A

For it, okay, I was just wondering, mr engel, why were you wearing sandals at that time? um It was dressed.

A

Down day, I'm just asking so that is mr engels, I'm in the I'm in the black shoes just saying.

A

It's just wrong, but the thing is the sandals were outside the work zone right and they stayed.

A

Outside the cones- yes, okay, and so it was clear, I'm the one on the left, not the one on the right just.

A

Saying go ahead last week was my pink tie this week. It was your sandal yeah. What am I gonna say.

W

Anyway, good morning, commissioners, on that note uh joined here this morning by maria myers who's, our.

W

Recycling manager, I believe it's maria's first time here in front of the board the new board. We.

W

Are very happy to announce today that the state of maryland will be funding two special tire.

W

Recycling events this year, one for farmers and one for residents and I'll turn it over to maria who.

W

Can provide details of each event morning morning, so we've been approved to participate. The first.

X

um Free of charge, option for disposing of scrap tires that they've have accumulated.

X

On their properties, this is a very popular event, but the tires must come from a carroll county farm.

X

Non-Farm and commercial entities are not allowed to participate and they must have documentation.

X

That they are an active farm or have a farm bureau membership or a postcard from the farm bureau. When.

X

They make their delivery. The state of maryland will reimburse for the cost of transportation.

X

And disposal of scrap tires up to a maximum of 78 thousand dollars per county, and we will also.

X

Be reimbursed for twenty five hundred dollars for scrap tire equipment and labor for loading.

X

Assistance so we're asking the commissioners to approve us to host this event with the.

X

Carroll county farm bureau and accept the maximum reimbursement for the from the maryland department.

X

Of the environment, have we used that much last year we use the last ag tire event we used. Eighty.

X

One thousand dollars 81, so this is right around the same yeah well and they had originally given.

X

Us sixty thousand dollars- and we all cried the blues about that. But then they found out that.

X

Not all the counties were participating, so they just this couple days ago, came back and told us.

X

They were going to give us more money. Okay, so so bottom line is you're getting the word out.

A

And the community is able to get their tires, the farmers to start yes, and they will be great. We.

X

Work through the farm, the local farm bureau, jason, myers who's, the president of the carroll county.

X

Farm bureau we'll uh be working with them. I've been talking to him periodically to to make sure.

X

We get this set up because they're going to help us this time, they're going to act actively have.

X

Somebody on site for us we're so we're going to have it we're asking the farmers to please come.

X

Within the time frame of ten to one not to show up at 7 a.m in the morning thinking they're gonna.

X

Get ahead of everybody so that we can manage the throughput of these tires because it it.

X

Can get very hectic absolutely so that's what we're asking and we're looking to schedule it.

X

For the first week in june, uh hopefully everybody will have everything planted and they'll be ready.

D

How do you reimburse for the cost of transportation I take the hours and how much.

X

The equipment costs to run that, and I work through our payroll department to get the costs for the.

X

Whoever the personnel is to helping them load the tires. So that's and I submit that to mes to get.

X

Reimbursed for that money, but but then does if a farmer brings them there on his truck, does he get.

D

Reimbursed to get him there, no, no, no, no! No, they get the free yeah yeah disposal exactly. No! It's.

X

Our labor that's going to load yeah right your help with unloading, your your transportation right.

X

Not theirs! Yes, yes, because they'll um the vendor will drop uh roll-off containers and we will load.

X

Those containers with those tires and you have to move those and we will have to move those around.

X

For for pickup from the vendor, yeah, okay, one thing we'd like to note on this too, is we with.

W

That seventy eight thousand dollars in the price per ton that it's going to cost to dispose of the.

W

Tires that backs into a number that's around 280 tons of tires that we can handle in this program.

W

uh We're letting the farm bureau know that it is our intent, though, to truncate that program to stop.

W

The program when we start coming up on that 280 ton, so we do not go over if we were to go over.

W

Two options: one: we can beg the state for more money may or may not happen or it'll come out.

W

The disposal will come out of our budget right, so we do actively. We will be actively counting.

W

The tires uh weighing them and making sure that they're cut off the event might last two days it.

W

Might last all week we just don't know at this time. It sounds like last time we did it. You were.

A

Close yeah. Yes, so that's a pretty good number 78 000 and it was 81 000. So that's correct. Okay, so.

C

You'll be having the two events you said: there's always the first ones, the the farmer event in.

C

June, you said in june first week in june: that's what I've I've, let the is there any set any rough.

C

Estimate estimation, I guess I should say of when the the other event will be just out of curiosity.

X

Or do you want to or was it the next time? I'm sorry, I'm sorry! Let me finish this one.

C

Then real quick, I apologize. So what can I say the only other question she saw. Is we don't.

C

Want to make, I don't make her day too bad um in regards to the farm bureau. Are they going.

C

To be sending out, I guess notice to all the various farmers in the opinion. Okay,.

X

A little earlier, but they had a problem with the vendor, so we had to postpone it. So we didn't.

X

Want to hit the planting season so uh we're doing it in june, but yes, they'll, communicate.

X

They'll, have it posted on their webs webpage and they'll send postcards that to the members now.

X

The non-members are another story: they'll have to okay. Believe me: they get the word and and as long.

X

As they come with documentation that they are a farm, then we'll we'll work through that. Okay.

A

Is there a motion motion to approve the department of public works participation in the fy 2023 farm.

E

Tire amnesty drop-off events and accept up to the maximum reimbursement from the maryland department.

E

Of the environment, second, I got a motion. Second, any discussion seen here, none all in favor.

A

Aye aye: okay: let's talk about the fy 24 citizen, scrap tire, drop-off event; okay, so we're having two.

X

Events this year, the second one is the citizens, scrap tire event and that will allow residents.

X

That means that their non-farm and non-commercial entities will not be able to participate in this.

X

Event and they'll be able to deliver one load up to a maximum of 10 scrap tires per vehicle with.

X

The one trip per resident and we have to track it in a non-commercial vehicle on or off the rims.

X

With a size limit of 33 inches, um so the state of maryland will reimburse the cost of transportation.

X

And disposal of scrap tires up to a maximum of fifteen thousand six hundred twenty five dollars.

X

Per county and will also be reimbursed for a thousand dollars for advertising the event now.

X

I will advertise on we'll: do a press release uh advertise uh into carroll county times and I'll.

X

Get the word out on our web pages uh because this is going to the residents, so they are aware of of.

X

This event, and so we were reimbursed for that event, whereas for the other event that farm.

X

Bureau will be notifying members, so we're asking commissioners to approve the carroll.

X

County to host this event and accept the maximum reimbursement from the maryland department of the.

X

Environment and I've already scheduled it for sunday june 16th eight to one and you will take.

D

Them on the rim- oh yes, they'll, take them wow. Our current program takes on the rim also yeah.

X

Okay, you know you can't ask them to take them. Oh, I understand we're going to get them anyway. Yeah.

X

Okay motion to approve the department of public works participation in the fy 2024.

E

Citizen scrap tire drop-off event and accept up to the maximum reimbursement from the maryland.

E

Department of the environment. Second, I got a motion got a second in discussion.

A

Seen here, none all in favor all right! Thank you, maria good night sure saturday, as our household.

X

Hazardous waste and shredding event at the vehicle maintenance facility from 8 to noon.

X

Thank you very much.

A

Okay, the next topic is uh we're going to hearing for russell's standard corporation.

A

Bid protest turnover nothing to mr burke no good morning. This is a a bid protest filed.

R

Under your uh procurement law on march, 10 2023, the office of procurement issued a notice of.

R

Award of intent to notice of intent to award a contract to an outfit called american, paving.

R

Fabrics and april 4th russell standard filed a formal request for a formal appeal hearing.

R

Before the board- and that's why we're here today are you from russell standard? Okay,.

Y

This is amy greylish. Thank you before we start, since this is one that can be appealed to the.

R

Circuit court would anybody who's going to give testimony? Please stand for me.

N

Do you swear affirm that the testimony or evidence you give today.

R

uh Is going to be true to the best of your knowledge and belief, I do thank you. Everybody.

R

Now, thanks: okay, did you get the documents I sent you about the agenda and the order.

R

Okay, the agenda we have before us we're going to hear from the office of procurement they're.

R

Going to present their statement, they have 10 minutes to do so. Okay and then we'll hear from.

R

Russell standard corporation they'll have 10 minutes to do their position. American.

R

Paving fabrics has contacted me yesterday and said they will not be appearing today. So, okay.

G

Good morning again, commissioners, hey chris, put on the 10-minute stopwatch. No, I'm kidding go ahead.

R

Would you state for the record who you are, what you do? Okay, maureen dunn? I am the procurement.

G

Officer officer procurement and, as tim had said, this is protests filed by russell standard in.

G

Reference to our bid, rfp 19f1 2223 and I'm going to read the administrative statement.

G

Which is basically a timeline in facts of um from the beginning of when the bid was put out to when.

G

We received the protest from russell's standard. Before you start. Will you move the microphone just.

K

A little bit closer to you, I think your voice is very quiet and it might be hard for. Is that better.

G

Okay, as I had mentioned, we put out a bid for the 2023 chip ceiling of gravel roads.

G

Was posted on public purchase on january 6 2023 part of the bid packet in is a general.

G

Information for bidders which, in that information for bitter states as it pertains to this protest.

G

There's a section called reservations and in that reservation it is stated that the county.

G

Is not obligated to award the contract to the apparent low bidder and specifically, reserves.

G

The right to waive informalities to reject any and all bids and to award the contract.

G

In its entirety, or in part, whichever in its opinion, best serves the interests of the county.

G

It also states that the county shall have the right to make such investigations and to take.

G

Such steps as it deems necessary to determine the ability of the bidder to perform the work.

G

In part, are statements made in the bid specifications concerning award of bids.

G

As it pertains to this protest awarded the contract, all bidders must be pre-qualified.

G

Through the county prior to submitting a bid, additionally, the county may make such.

G

Investigations as it deems necessary to determine the ability of the bidder to perform the work.

G

The bitter shall furnish to the county all such information and data for this purpose as the owner.

G

May request such information may include, but not limited, to say this goes on to state. Should the.

G

County determine that the apparent low bidder is not the lowest responsible bitter. The apparently.

G

Bidder will be notified and his or her bid security returned without prejudice. He did.

G

Receive two bids: on february, the first for this project, american paving fabrics put in a bid of.

G

776 thousand three hundred and twenty dollars and russell standard put in a bid of 484 538 538.60.

G

On february the 13th um I received an email from the bureau of rhodes recommending a war.

G

Be made to american paving, which was um viva purchase, request naming american paving as a.

G

Suggested supplier and with americans paving bid amount approved by the bureau budget.

G

On february the 15th 2023, I sent an email to the bureau of rhodes requesting justification for not.

G

Selecting the low bidder as the awardee as this information would be needed for the concurrence.

G

Letter to be taken before you the board on march, the 9th 2023 I received a draft concurrence letter.

G

From the department of public works stating concerns with russell standards, performance.

G

On previous work, justifying why they did not recommend russell's standard for the award.

G

In review of this information and as the county's procurement officer, understanding.

G

That a responsible bidder is one who has the capability in all respects, to perform.

G

Scene, I just lost my place fully: the contract requirements and the integrity.

G

And real reliability, which shall assure good faith performance, it must be taken.

G

Into consideration the circumstances of the contractor's failure to perform properly and.

G

In a timely manner, and determine whether the same problems reasonably may be expected to.

G

Similarly affect the contract to be awarded, it was my determination that russell standard.

G

Did not perform as responsible and believe my decision should be upheld.

G

On march, the 10th 2023 the office of procurement posted a notice of award.

G

A notice of intent to award to american paving incorporated, I received a letter dated march the.

G

15Th 2023 from russell stander protesting the notice of intent to award to american, paving.

G

On march, the 21st I received from doug brown, the deputy director public works.

G

A 2021, gravel road project timeline that kathy verts wrote administrative supervisor.

G

Had made outlining russell standards performance during the 2021 project.

G

On march, the 23rd 2023 I emailed a letter to russell standard in response to their protest.

G

Letter this letter stated the issues that the bureau of rhodes had encountered and attached.

G

With the letter as a project timeline provided by the department of public works again, stating.

G

The various issues the office of procurement received from the county commissioner's office.

G

A letter dated march the 28 2023 from russell standard appealing the decision.

G

As there was some confusion as to what russell standard was requesting a letter.

G

Was emailed to russell standard on april, the 3rd 2023 requesting a clarification if russell.

G

Standard wanted a meeting with the bureau of rhodes or a formal hearing before the board.

G

Russell stander replied by email to me on april 4th 2023, requesting formal hearing.

G

Before the board of commissioners, which brings us here to today- and I also want.

G

To let you know that there is a powerpoint available with pictures where you review.

G

That was made by the department of public works. If you would like to review them.

A

What's the intent of the powerpoint, it shows the condition of the roads.

G

uh It shows uh the work that russell standard did and the flaws that they.

G

Encountered and then it also shows the work that was done by american, paving okay.

A

There's opportunity for questions to marine okay, we're rifling through a lot of paper.

A

Appreciate the comments you made: are there any questions directed to marie at this time.

A

Any head nuts, I got one.

Q

Yeah, um and- and forgive me if I'm not allowed to ask about this, um what was and again if that's in.

E

The powerpoint you can just tell me to look at the powerpoint, the the I guess previous.

E

Concerns that you had about why uh russell would not be the the way to go. I mean is that in the.

E

The powerpoint I mean what was it that made? You say we're not going to go with russell, I mean specifically, do you have this.

K

Procurement again, you have a copy of it um roberto. I can give you my copy.

B

If you need an extra copy mine's in color.

K

Here I got it, that's right, you got it all right. Thanks guys, there you go.

Y

Q

And so it's in the pound, I'm sorry the.

G

What was concluded is that, when russell standard did their work in 2021.

G

um The rose department, some of their work, actually failed and the rhodes department had to go back.

G

Out and correct the failings of those roads- and um there were some lateness involved- uh not.

G

Following the timeline schedule that rhodes had put out, that was specific in their instructions.

G

So, um and yes, it is, there is a letter that states the different um complaints.

G

That rhodes department- had- I don't have that right in front of me, but I know those were the.

G

Major concerns is that they had to go back and spend time and money to correct the failings.

E

And I guess the the contention is is that this was not.

E

Something that that occurs. Naturally, this has to do with the actual work on the road being done.

E

Like this isn't weathering or or we have natural processes that are that are impacting the road.

G

My understanding is that the main complaint was with the actual work itself. I I would have.

G

To refer to somebody in public works for them, I'm sorry yeah, I didn't mean to get.

E

Technical with you there but, um like I said I know what it what it boils down to is that.

G

County employees had to fix. The error is basically that occurred. Thank you. You're welcome.

D

Is there a warranty period in in the contracts and where they, and, if so, were they allowed to.

D

Come back and do repairs did they refuse to do repairs or or they weren't asked.

G

That I will have to turn over to um doug brown and his staff.

E

Do we have to formally call dug up okay, just just making sure he's swore in just making sure.

E

Morning, commissioners, good morning so directly to your question. um Yes, sir uh douglas brown.

S

Deputy director department of public works carroll, county government. So in response to your question.

S

uh Commissioner, is that we typically when we deal with these uh issues that had came up they they.

S

Are in this particular situation, particularly with surface hardening or gravel roads, the longer that.

S

We wait to do them the worse. The problem becomes so oft times we get to complain. Our crews are out.

S

There and deal with them, so short answer is no, they were not contacted and no. This work.

S

Typically and we've done it for years, we currently use the double chip, seal and fog seal and have for.

S

Years over our roads in carroll county, our asphalt roads and now the last three years.

S

On surface hardening, the gravel roads- and we have not experienced these issues prior to this.

D

And this the schedule, I know there were uh pipe replacement.

D

Etc, the fact that this got so late in the fall was that their schedule or the county schedule for.

D

Both so our timeline this, the brief, the history is uh the last board of commissioners approved within.

S

The cip, a three-year schedule for us to divide the roads and bid it out separately in three different.

S

Occasions we did so uh the bitter uh that is before you today was successful in the first year.

S

We were at that time asked by the commissioners. Had we ever used them, we had not, but we said that.

S

You know they were below bidder. We would go with that. Subsequently, from the beginning. um What was.

S

Told to us by the corporation was not done, and you know from your past experience in road work early.

S

Is better, we would have off times where 9 30 a.m was the start date, starting out of sequence on the.

S

Agreed two roads, and you have heard us say that we value our customers opinion what that means.

S

Is every customer got a written letter and that written letter, as part of that, was our schedule.

S

For when roads would be done in a certain order, that order was not followed. We made multiple.

S

Attempts early in the project to correct that that was still a case. We also had product shortfalls.

S

Where there was not enough material on behalf of the contractor to do the agreed-upon roads that.

S

Day the schedule was skipped and and moved around and again. This causes us quite frankly, and we take.

S

It very seriously in the eyes of our customers. They're, like you guys, don't even know what you're.

S

Talking about you can't run a project you're not showing up on our roads when you're supposed to.

S

And we have to answer for that now, keeping it to yes, sir: go ahead, sorry, keeping it as standard and.

A

The timeline- yes, sir, you know we're asking certain questions. Answering the question. Yep understand.

S

It but I don't want to unfairly you know no just trying to. uh I just want to make sure that we're.

A

Not kind of going overboard, um but, but that is that is our point to the schedule. So we we did.

S

Our best, but the schedule was not followed and we attempted to correct and- and you already said they.

D

Were pre-qualified at the time of the advertising in the bid? Are they currently pre-qualified.

G

I don't know that there was pre-qualification required. I'm not I'm not positive on this on this.

S

Particular case uh the bidders they they are not through the same pre-qualification that we would.

S

Put in asphalt contractor down so that answer to that is no hmm and that's the same across the.

S

Board for all not just for russell standard, but for office, so nothing different for them. Okay, I.

D

I think you guys added micro, maybe to the pre-qualification list, I'm not sure it just.

S

Wasn't we just did a micro test uh a little over a year ago, yeah yeah, but I didn't think this was.

D

Part of the little boxes you check correct doug: do you have an estimate about the amounts of cost.

E

That was entailed to repair the roads in questions. I do not have that in front of me today, sir. No.

A

Any other questions for maureen and doug at this time, any other questions the board. If.

R

That not does the contractor have any questions. You'll get a chance to do your presentation next.

R

But do you have any questions based upon what you heard so wasn't? There um could.

R

You apologize, I'm sorry, use the microphone and tell us who you are again with rough standard.

Y

um Severe weather during this time frame that we had to uh to work around on this.

S

So we did account for and in our timeline the weather is mentioned.

S

But the weather and I'm trying to get both between the microphone and here.

S

um Really was out of pace with the schedule. uh I think there were some discussions. You were the.

S

Foreman on the job I was not, I was not I know for factually within the timeline. There were.

S

Discussions with the foreman uh differences in start time start days and schedule right and that.

S

Was not directly impacted by the weather? We do actually have factually within our timeline when.

S

You were delayed and the delay was by weather, okay, but that has nothing to do with the other part.

Y

Okay, that was that was the only thing I had was a question. We did have that. Yes, sir okay, thank you.

R

Anything else from purchasing now, um just one thing you had asked about the.

G

What other issues were? What came I get this outright? What other issues for to why we didn't.

G

Want to award it and I did put in its exhibit j in my letter um to russell's standard it does.

G

State that issues were encountered, issues were scheduled and instructions were not.

G

Adhered to routine lateness to job sites, sort of shortage of supplies, equipment breakdown and.

G

Foxtel not drying properly. So that's how we outlined what the actual issues were.

A

So jay was to mr rowe from you: okay, correct, okay,.

A

Okay and it it does go on to say that, while the roads initially look good, many of them started to.

G

Fail within the first year, causing the bureau of roads to make repairs: okay, foreign. How long does.

E

A road typically last before it needs some kind of significant repair, so we uh typically with.

S

This type of preservation technique throughout the county. We can get five to seven years if.

S

It is over top of another road, and realistically we should that is the the best bang for the buck.

S

That's quite frankly, what our goal is, so we want five to seven years before we have to get in there.

S

Barring any unusual circumstance- and these were failing within the first year- you say yes, sir.

A

Okay, any other questions.

Z

Hi, I'm amy greylish with russell standard. uh You said you get five to seven years when.

Z

You're going over another road correct, but these were grown over dirt and gravel. They were, but we.

S

Have already had uh three years on our test areas that we began, so we have no reason to.

S

Believe that our five to seven years at this point won't go. We have had three and also in the second.

S

Year of the contract, it has well withstand at this point beyond a year and doing good.

Z

Was it all the roads or just uh like small portions, uh because I saw the pictures sure and.

Z

A lot are center line where so some are centers, there's not a crown and that's where the water.

Z

Tends to sit sure center line sideline it was very right throughout the roads right and when you do.

Z

A chip seal, it doesn't change the profile of a road. So if that cron's not correct a chip seal is.

Z

Not going to correct it, so if there is guttering if there's water in the middle, I understand that.

S

It's not because of the chips, our teams, though, on the other hand, prep all of our roads prior to you.

S

And or any other chip seal contractor coming in so we're well aware of that, that is part of our.

S

Prep, where we do pipe work and uh seal work on the crown, so I totally understand what you're.

S

Saying you are not responsible for the grade of the road, we're not saying that at all here we.

S

Are responsible for the greater road and you come in and then code beyond that right? Okay, thank you.

R

Okay, if you vacate the seats, we'll hear from uh russell. Thank you. Thank you. Both.

E

Good morning to you, both hi everybody, just one last time tell us who both of you are and you're.

R

In your positions with the company sure I'm amy greylish, I am a regional technical sales.

Z

For russell standard, I've been there um nine years and my background is civil engineering.

Y

Yeah I'm todd mcconnell with uh with russell standard. I'm a field engineer. I do a lot of.

Y

Their federal work uh and road work and uh I've been doing this for quite quite a few years, so.

Z

Okay, I guess I'll start so russell standard. This company has been in.

Z

Business since 1949 we've been doing pavement preservation, so we have 74 years experience.

Z

um And we feel that we did fully perform the contract requirements back in 2021.. Now it was not.

Z

In a timely manner, but a hurricane had hit.

Z

So we were getting the weather from that hurricane and when they say we didn't follow the schedule.

Z

So um they had dates in there, so I went to our operations manager and he also had some notes on.

Z

The schedule we got in there on 8 30., so we have to move there, so the mobilization took five hours.

Z

To get there so we moved in and they gave us the list of roads. We went to the first road and then.

Z

They said it wasn't the correct one so to mobilize equipment. Again, we are already five hours there. We.

Z

Mobilized the equipment then to move somewhere else. That's not like a 10 minute process. It's.

Z

A train of equipment that has to go to the next road, so we didn't get anything done that first day.

Z

The second day was 8 31 and we had no problems that day we did 20 000 square yards of a double.

Z

Seal which is a pretty good production, so a double seal. Then you would figure that.

Z

At forty thousand square yards of a single so that we were satisfied with that production.

Z

On wednesday september 1st, we decided with the county that we could not complete the.

Z

Work because they were getting the weather from the hurricane, so that was right before the labor.

Z

Day weekend so from nine one and then labor day weekend, so we came back on that tuesday.

Z

uh Tuesday, we were able to get ten thousand square yards double done, wednesday, 14.

Z

000 square yards of a double thursday, there was rain and friday we did 26.

Z

000 square yards of a double, um and I don't know um they're saying we couldn't get the p2 material.

Z

I'm not sure they'd specify what material was, but we make the emulsion. So we but the emulsion. That's.

Z

Used on this is the crs2l we make that we have a location here in maryland. I think we're the only.

Z

uh People that have a plant in maryland that makes this emulsion, so it wasn't the emulsion, I'm not.

Z

Sure what material they were talking about on that, but so then um 917 friday was canceled with rain.

Z

And that that week in between, we didn't have any problems, we were productive. Every.

Z

Day, 9 20, we did 22 000 square yards of a double and then we are finished up. 9 22.

Z

And then we had guys that come in through the fog seal, so that goes.

Z

um That is applied after a chip seal, and that gives it like that black asphalt color, but it.

Z

Also aids in stone retention on the roads, and we were not made aware that there was anything that.

Z

Went wrong with the fog seal. Somebody said that it got on their car. We were not made aware of that.

Z

um Had we been, we could have, you know, put a claim in to help him clean it. It's I mean.

Z

I've had it on my car a lot of times we just I just get like a tar remover from like an auto.

Z

An auto store so yeah. We were not made aware of any issues whatsoever on the fog seal.

Z

And on okay, so on the schedule.

Z

So they did have a list of roads in the way they wanted them to go. But whenever we got that bad.

Z

Weather from the hurricane, when we got back, they had to change that list of roads, because then.

Z

They had to go and make repairs before we can chip seal, so that was one of the reasons that.

Z

There was miscommunication between our crews and the county because they kept changing the.

Z

Roads so we were never like, they would say we were late to a road, but we weren't. We had gone.

Z

To another road, and then they said this one's not repaired yet now you got him moved to another one.

Z

So that was the majority of the miscommunication with the road list. It was because that weather.

Z

Made you know they had to go back and do repairs on the roads. So I guess what we are looking for.

Z

Is you know we did this back in 2021 and we feel like we did the call we completed the contract.

Z

um We were never made aware that there was any issues with any of the roads that we completed.

Z

And then we put a bid in last year we were low and they did a word to american paving fabric. So.

Z

We just you know, we respected the county, but this time the difference is pretty significant. It was.

Z

Like close to 300 000 difference- and uh you know we feel like we- can- we make the we make.

Z

The emulsion and there's apples to apples these jobs, um they're gonna, buy the same emulsion that.

Z

We're making- I don't know if they buy it from us if they buy from somebody else. So that's the same.

Z

The stone is just number seven number, eight stone and the quality of our work. I had in an email, let.

Z

Me pull it up, so this was from that packet and it was the summary this came from the county. It said.

Z

I feel the roads that we chip sealed look good, considering the amount of delays that occurred.

Z

Due to the contractor weather, torrential rains, etc, there were a few locations that the contractor.

Z

Needed to repair due to bald spots, the contractor also had fog ceiling, has issues fog sealing due.

Z

To the weather conditions, I personally traveled a few roads during the evening hours and the fog.

Z

Seal had not hardened splashing material over my vehicle said the roads hardened over time. I.

Z

Have only received good comments regarding the hardening of these roads and the citizens are.

Z

Very grateful I would recommend some signs or safe hits of guard around some roads. So uh can you tell.

R

The board the date of that and who it was from, was it submitted with your paperwork. uh I don't.

R

Think so it might be I'll have to pull that up for you. Thank you. I got that from my boss. Oh okay,.

Q

I thought yeah, I thought I did see. Did you see that okay, I thought so how are we.

Z

To know that there was any issues whatsoever. If nobody is telling us- and you know we take.

Z

Pride in our work, we would have come back and repaired. Anything you have if, given we.

Z

Weren't even given a chance to look at it um and then we worry moving forward.

Z

You know if we should just not bid here, you know and then you're going to lose, that competitive.

Z

Bidding aspect so I'll find that for you, but that I think that's what I wanted to cover.

R

You want to add anything else. No I'm fine. I mean that pretty much covers it.

Y

um It just you know we, we are a good company and- and we do when we, if some, if something.

Y

Is is brought to our attention that we need to fix something we we fix it, and so that's just.

Y

um Not giving us the chance to be able to come back and perform if we do have an issue. I don't.

Y

Believe that's fair to our company by not being aware of it and giving the chance to fix what.

Y

We we uh that went wrong right and we do do work so um we have fayetteville office so we're only.

Z

45 minutes from here we have a local crew. We've done work, uh adams, adam sonship york, lancaster.

Z

So I mean you could call those you know. If you wanted to get a reference on us, we do work there.

R

Okay, I have a difficult question: where is valencia? Did you ever hear of mars pa that accent gave you.

R

A wave me I'm sorry, I'm actually from pittsburgh. I have a pittsburgh accent. Yes, I do yes seriously.

A

Seriously, I do I have pittsburgh that I'm not doubting I'm just curious where my legal attorney.

A

Or legal advisor was going with this. I went to pitt law school, so I know the action I went to.

R

Pitt engineering school there you go, I thought he was going to say you went to mars, I haven't.

A

Been to mars, sometimes we feel like he should, but that's, okay go panthers um any questions.

A

You've done work up in pennsylvania. You've done work also here in maryland. Besides carroll county.

A

Yes, sir, it's more of a um where have we done air arundel county.

Y

It's not my area, okay, anne arundel or yeah, um but we do work everywhere. So we do work in.

Z

North carolina south carolina, ohio, west virginia we're everywhere. We have seven crews that do this.

Z

Type of work- and I really feel that this- what happened in 2021, uh the majority is because of.

Z

That weather, because of that hurricane that came through, and just just that, like, though.

Z

The biggest detriment to any road project is rain or water. You know what I mean: that's like the the.

Z

Worst thing that can happen: that's why, like their schedule, delays, because we have to wait until that.

Z

Roadway is dry, we cannot apply asphalt, emulsion to anything wet or it's not going to stick. So I do.

Z

Feel that you know that was beyond our control. A lot of these delays became because of the weather.

A

Any questions you want to ask if doug or any of them have questions I mean well, I I have one.

E

Quick question and I apologize I'm still trying to find that email, but I know I read something in.

E

Here somewhere else, splashing up on the vehicles but yeah. So it's on the last three oh yeah and we.

D

Were not made aware of that either we're gonna get them next again yeah. We were not made aware.

Z

Of that I get foxy on my car all the time. You know what I mean you just it's a simple, clean.

Z

And the problem is when swag seal it usually dries very quickly. It's like 20 minutes to dry.

Z

um Only in areas where there might be shade, you know I mean like if there's some shaded areas of.

Z

The road that might take up to an hour right, it is a um the emulsion- is a slow set emulsion. It's.

Z

Cationic slow set, so that's why we have traffic controlled at both ends of the road to make sure.

Z

It's dried but like the chip seal oil is a quick set. So that's why, like you, can drive on that right.

Z

Away so with, and I read the comment as so much the damage to the vehicle and get the vehicle clean.

D

Because the roads guys are used to that, it was the fact that it still wasn't dry at 8 pm. Several.

D

Hours later I think right, but when I got lindy waldenville he was the uh one who applied it. He.

Z

Said you know they waited around, they were for for over an hour, and it was you know they felt that it.

Z

Was dry? No, I don't know if it was just like a small section that was in the shade or but we.

Z

Wouldn't leave a road that was wet with emulsion, so you'd mention that you know if you've been.

E

Notified say by you know, x-town or x, county about some work that needed to be altered or adjusted or.

E

Fixed that you go out to to do this absolutely and what is the timeline typically for that between.

E

Notice of an issue and completion of the solution come back, so we have different. I would probably.

Z

Be the first one contacted so they would send like our technical sales reps. They would send.

Z

Us that first to go see what we're looking, then we, um you know, take our notes, uh give advice.

Z

On what we think should be done, take it back to operations and then they set up the schedule to go.

Z

To go fix it and is there I know it's difficult because every project varies, but is there a.

E

General sense, like do you say: okay, well, you know, we'd be notified, there's an issue and within one.

E

Week we will have the issue taken care of within three days. I mean. Is there like a set there's.

Z

Not a set time because it depends on where our crews are so if we have a crew, that's you know.

Z

Right there we'll come right back, you know what I mean, but if we have, the nearest crew is 100 miles.

Z

Away, they have to finish that job and then somebody can go so we also have smaller, like.

Z

um Repair, crews that we can send so I mean, but this one would have been on the scope it could.

Z

Be very important to us right because we want to work here. We want to continue work in maryland, so.

Z

It would have been of utmost importance to us to get back here, so it could take.

E

Some time, depending on certain conditions, depending on what the rate okay, thank you.

R

Sure did you have any questions maureen or.

G

I I don't really have any questions, but the uh what sorry amy hey. What amy said is in.

G

This packet, okay, right, yep! Thank you! Okay! Okay! All right! Thank you. Thank you. So much. Thank you.

E

And I guess I have a question if we can ask doug to come back up for a minute. That's that's!.

E

Good morning again good morning, I think 10 minutes.

E

So with the issues that were arising, um was there any kind of notice made regarding the issues.

E

And relating to that, um did you feel that there was a necessity of having these issues repaired.

E

As soon as humanly possible, which would lead to one of our crews taking care of it versus waiting.

E

For the company to come back and do it sure and why so two-part question.

S

um So first part was the communication done. Obviously we don't have either the first.

S

Person, the foreman or kathy our administrative supervisor is away at a conference this week.

S

Actually a snow conference- uh or she would be here today, but what I can tell you is and I've.

S

Discussed this with hers that she did have these conversations with the foreman, so it.

S

Was relayed through the on-site person now having read uh russell standards letter they.

S

Said that their management was not aware of it, so that, obviously, is a is a disagreement to the.

S

Second part of your question: yeah timeliness is important. We you know, as was given to you,.

S

An example you know to wait a week. You would certainly, as a commissioner question us as.

S

To about our timeliness of making any repairs- and we have that same problem, so we can't continue to.

S

Let those things go on because, just as weather of impacts, a lot of things we do weather also makes.

S

Situations, worse often throughout the county, so we would, we would have addressed it immediately.

Q

And is that and if you can't answer, that's okay, but is it typical, for you know somebody.

E

To say: hey, there's an issue with this road and to relay it to the foreman or as a typical procedure.

E

To channel something up, so our point of contact by contract in all of our jobs typically is the.

S

On-Site supervision of the foreman and then just like with us, we see it as the responsibility of.

S

The contractor to communicate with his or her foreman on the job site to make sure they are.

S

Getting timely reports of what is going on; that's the same that we do with our staff. Thank you.

A

Okay, anything any other questions for doug yeah since you're back up here I wasn't going to, but.

D

um And maybe it says it in here when were the damages and when were the repairs.

D

um You do you remember, and, and for instance, what was it in the spring or still in the fall? Do you.

D

Remember how quickly some of those were immediate? Yes, right, right immediately, following in the fall.

S

Before we got into the wintertime season, uh I don't have the specific timeline in front of.

S

Me other than what's included in the package. Yes, that answers my question. The the other.

D

um Question and- uh and she mentioned that the disparity in the bid totals the the unit prices.

D

Were worth in five percent of each other five and less than four and a half, but the quantities were.

D

53 off which well I didn't see where that raised an alarm, I would think it normally.

D

Would a did it and b? How do they get paid? Does it get measured and paid for by the actual quantity.

D

Completed, or is what they put in here, what they get paid so they do get get paid as and again.

S

um I I will turn back to that, but quantity completed is when you're doing gravel roads and.

S

This is where we get into quality control versus the sides and the centers. There isn't a often.

S

There oft times isn't an exact endpoint, meaning that the contractors when they come out or send.

S

Their expertise, which is their estimator out, they measure to a point and then complete to that point.

S

We have found that the other contractor it was a more satisfactory completion. It might have went.

S

Out a little further into a driveway, it just made it look better for the job and uh they they are.

S

Typically paid and billed and I'm going to turn to jim on the quantity, yes on the quantity, okay,.

A

Any other questions for doug.

A

Okay, thanks, you doug did you have any questions based upon what you heard.

A

I always missed that part. So that's one more thing: in general, um there seemed to be two issues in.

D

Your communication, who are you asking I apologize you're, asking them? No, I I don't know it's uh look.

D

I I guess the county um there were. There were two issues within it. One was the protest of.

D

This bid, one was in bidding future work and- and I guess what we're ruling on today is the protest.

D

Of the bid right, if if they want to do future work or the county, wants that that's a whole.

D

Nother sub we're not talking about that today. Is that correct, right, correct! Okay, then I take.

D

Care of my question: okay, we're just getting a little exercise. Yeah yeah! Thank you. Thank you.

D

Me not asking a question, uh so it's it's open for discussion at this point. um Jim did you want to.

A

Give us any uh direction, navigate us to you know, guidance. No, I would just say the hearing and the.

R

Record in the case is now closed. It's up to you now to to make a decision. I've, given you some.

R

Consideration points in your in your materials after the um after the briefing paper.

R

You can either regard to the burden of proof and the standard of review right.

R

You can either uh grant the grant the protest based upon what you've heard.

R

Concluding that the award to russell should have been done in the best interest of the county or.

R

You can uphold the office of procurement in their decision in court, awarding it to.

R

American paving fabrics you can reject the two bids and start again.

A

You know it, it bothers me that american paving isn't even here.

A

um Showing a lack of interest: well, they did phone me yesterday and said: do we have to be.

R

Here I said: no, you don't have, no, they don't have to be, but they said that they, the only thing that.

R

They would have testified to is yes, this is our bid and we have performed work for the county.

R

In the past, well I mean seven hundred thousand dollars and we just went through a budget process.

A

You know that we're looking very carefully at dollars and.

A

You know so for me american paving, although I understand maybe why they chose not to be.

A

um Those didn't see it, you know that that's 771 000 is as much of a you know, concern to them.

A

So, just just for a point of clarification, there appears to be a typo in the.

K

um The cover sheet that came along with your packet, it is, I believe, the bid was 776 325.

K

From okay, then not the 720 771 that so I mean so right up front. That bothers me.

A

You know knowing that russell standard has been in business since 1949 and has done.

A

A lot of work now I don't want us to compare to pennsylvania roads. That's not a good idea, but.

A

I just feel like we have a higher standard in many cases, to our concerns and focus on our on.

A

Our roads, um you know I'm of the opinion, I'm not sure why I would not. I understand all the issues.

A

That are in here, um I want to say not everybody's perfect, but.

A

You know, I'm not sure why I wouldn't step up and support this protest, so.

A

I don't know, um I know it, we expect quality, but it's a lot of money.

A

So that that's just my two cents.

A

Any any three four and five cents, so I uh I'm actually.

B

Pretty familiar with with a couple of these roads, probably more so than.

B

Anybody else here, particularly davis, wrote I'm living mount airy and.

B

Part of gills falls there and I'd be lying to you. If I I told you, I was comfortable, you know sitting.

B

In judgment of what we have here, but I think it's important to distinguish the issues there was the.

B

Work that was done and there were some issues that the county had with that work and I'm sure you.

B

Can appreciate the fact that the folks that are sitting around you, they are just doing their job.

B

They are the stewards of the county dollars and if they weren't doing what they were doing, they.

B

The four of the five of us up here would have issues with it.

B

And having you know, being somebody who has bid on my share of contracts in a whole different world, I.

B

Can understand the frustration of possibly being a low bid, not getting the work? Your the high bidder.

B

You don't get the work, and, in my experience with that, I would always just hope that I would get.

B

Some sort of feedback from a customer as to why we didn't get the work. Why did we lose this contract.

B

Why didn't we re-win the contract, and so I with that said, I have no doubt in my mind that if.

B

Russell's standards given another opportunity to do work in this county. I have no doubt in my mind.

B

That I would just be shocked if we ever had any questions again, because I know I heard you say we.

B

Want to work here, and I can tell you as a carroll county resident, you should want to work here. We.

B

Got a great county and it's a great place to come and work and and make money and spend money.

B

So with that in mind, um I do I do respect the the work that the county staff has put into this.

B

And and I share their concerns about the work that was done and my only concern in.

B

My only concern in denying the protests is that it doesn't hamper or be a detriment to future.

B

Bidding- and I know that's probably not as easy as it sounds, because we go off of past performance.

B

As we call in the industry- but um I know you- I know that we've had it, we've had issues and.

B

I appreciate the work the county staff's done. I would be supporting a move by the county.

B

Commissioner, to deny the protest, but I I just feel, as though you know sometimes things happen,.

B

Bad weather, I remember that weather I can attest to the fact that one of those roads, particularly.

B

Davis road is tricky real, tricky road, but I respect the work. The county staff's done.

B

But just want to have some sort of understanding, I guess or maybe put my mind at ease that it's.

B

Not going to be a detriment in the future if they want to come down here and work.

K

Mr brown's indicating he'd like to speak, but I think the records close, so you don't think so.

K

Right tim right, sorry, I was just saying how much you think, I'm sitting here and and.

D

This one isn't.

D

um Black and white there's a lot of gray in this and and I respect everything the county's done.

D

um And I don't if I don't think this uh digs me a hole, but I've done goals before.

D

um Both of these companies have worked for me in the past, and birth are very reputable.

D

And do a good job and and not every job was perfect and both of them have replaced stuff.

D

So I do feel like both are reputable companies. I don't know what happened with this one job.

D

um And uh I can't get it out of my mind and, like commissioner rothstein said, it's also a chunk of.

D

Money and uh like I say I don't want to think I'm undermining anything that our staff did because.

D

um You know they made a decision they had to make and they based it on facts, but but I think.

D

I would have a hard time denying the protest at this point in time, but um you know and it's a.

D

And- and you know, I can't help but look at the dollars too, and and that's a fact and and again.

D

um I understand what you said about the other contractor, but I would have been here today. I.

D

Mean it's uh for 771 000 power contract and somebody was protesting. I'd have been here.

D

And and and that that's a factor in my back of my head too, and they had every right not.

D

To be, but I mean, but that's a huge factor to my perception- that's a tough one. I I can see.

B

Both sides of that coin I mean, I know they won the contract by showing up you know, how does that look.

B

The other hand, uh debt, the deference, seems to be the word of the day- definitely show up for.

B

That level of of contract might have been a good idea, but I I could. I can really see both sides.

B

To not being I understand that point three hundred thousand dollars yeah you're right, but I I'm sorry.

A

Commissioner, just real quick because part of the process- which sometimes we I feel forget, is this.

A

Part of the process allowing these the type of discussions allowing protests um and getting.

A

As much information as possible, so it's not in a a way that we're you know: dissing our staff.

A

um But it's you know providing the community to say hey. This is why I want to be considered and.

A

um Yeah, maybe next time american paving will recognize if they don't want that.

A

Extra three hundred thousand dollars or 776 thousand dollars they may participate, but.

A

And I I apologize no words at all, commissioner, so I I guess the way that I approach this is.

E

And I certainly understand why we'd be interested in having american paving here.

E

But they are not the subject of the the protest. They're, not the subject of the issue at hand.

E

um So I guess I'm less inclined to to consider that detrimentally to the to the case. It's at.

E

Hand so, first of all say that I don't believe that that you know I think russell standard is a good.

E

Company, I I you know not heard anything, unkind or disreputable about them in the past, so I have.

E

No concerns, as far as that is is as far as that regards of it. You know when I ask these questions.

E

About well, you know how long is one of the? How long are one of these some of these roads supposed.

E

To last, you say up to seven years, and these are failing within the first year and when I look at.

E

The the number of photographs in here I mean it's not just one or two roads where there was an issue.

E

That occurred, I mean it's that there's quite a few number of roads in here where issues have occurred.

E

You know I respect the fact that that maybe the company's management was not made aware of the.

E

Issue, but that comes down to their foreman. That's been contractually obligated to make them aware.

E

That doesn't fall on the county to make them aware. um You know I look at the fact that.

E

uh You know they are willing to to. You know, try to make things right to make the repairs.

E

But as commissioner garen had you know, hinted at earlier and as doug had mentioned, you know.

E

We are beholden to citizens of this county for timely and effective management for timely and.

E

Effective solutions to problems that our citizens do face and, and while I certainly understand.

E

And respect because everybody knows I did home improvement and light construction landscaping.

E

In the past, and and you may not be able to get back to a job for a couple of days depending.

E

On something, but when you have, you know in some cases hundreds of people using a road on a daily.

E

Basis, uh you know waiting a week or a month or whatever the case may be, it doesn't doesn't hold.

E

um So I again and it's not to say anything at all whatsoever about the company itself. I have.

E

No, you know compunction about them bidding on something again in the future, but given.

E

What we have in front of us and given the the uh the evidence that we've received and given.

E

The the testimony that we've received- uh I am not in favor, of granting the the protest.

A

I'm sorry compunction. I have no concerns, no issues, no, no reservations, no kidding any other comments.

A

Discussion well I'm going to make the motion that the board of county commissioners sustained the.

A

Protest of russell standard corporation and reversed a decision to award the project bid.

A

Wait yes to american, paving fabrics.

D

A second I have a motion. I have a second any further discussion and restates your motion.

A

To reverse the decision of the decision, yes, change, who's, doing the work, correct, yep,.

A

Okay, any discussion seen here: none all in favor aye against no, no okay, two three.

A

Thank you, so does he need to make his motion? I don't, I think, the you think that yes, it's denied.

D

He needs to make his motion or no, I would say, no don't deny the process we're done. The protest is.

A

Denied okay! Thank you very much. All of you thanks everybody. Thank you. Thank you. I'll.

A

Tell you what I do appreciate is we don't take any of this lightly? No, no and I and and I appreciate.

D

Conversations we decide to vote on something 5-0. It's going to scare me a little bit.

D

Because we have some good discussion and and it's not black and white, you know right. One.

A

To one you come on up so so today, when we go to a journey you're going to vote against the journey.

D

It's going to vote against adjourning. Just don't go just to irritate you guys.

D

And then you'll tell me I can stay right. Okay, uh chris, do we have anybody on.

A

I do not have anybody on the line. Okay. Thank you. I need a review of the april 13th close minutes for public safety.

A

Who writes this chicken scratch in the in the box? Well,.

A

Just curious where oh, uh we should be thankful, it's an attorney, I'm just curious. It's almost as.

A

Bad as a physician, so I move we uh poor tim dropped. The minutes from the close.

B

Public safety session of april 13th, second, okay: I got a motion. I got a second all in favor.

R

Aye aye some catholic school penmanship teachers rolling over in her grave now in there.

A

I refuse to comment on things like that: nope nope, nope, okay, monday april 24th. Nothing scheduled.

A

Tuesday april 25th at 10 a.m. We have one action to release: fy 24 proposed budget.

A

On wednesday, we have the secretary of agriculture coming at eight in the morning.

A

With the ag center, commissioner, gordon kyler and I will be attending.

A

Planning and zoning commissioned that evening, commissioner gordon will be participating.

A

At 6 30 that evening, um a veterans appreciation dinner, hosted by the lions club, the freedom.

A

District lions club down sykesville, commissioner kyler and I will be attending commissioner karen.

A

Please let me know if you want to I: I was uh forced to uh rsvp in the negative for.

B

That I can't make it, but I appreciate that very much. um Okay, that's wednesday, thursday.

A

We go into open session at zero. Nine.

A

We have a few priority carol activities. Then we go into purchase, install fixed lpr systems.

A

From the sheriff's department, public safety server infrastructure replacement from it.

A

Fy24 recovery house from dcs board of approval of required cdbg plans from dcs forwarding a letter.

A

Regarding a zoner zoning waiver, I think that'll come off right. Did we oh, we decide? Did we decide.

A

Which way did we go on that now on what issue now I'm having a oh, we agree to it yeah. I think I.

K

Apologize so item five comes off thanks so long ago. Now we did the difference, then yeah, okay,.

A

um A briefing from economic development and land use study with ms eisenberg and.

A

The the team, the that that was put together from.

A

John silver and associates, I believe uh sun valley, storm water management facility, retrofit.

A

County npdes program and our newly issued permit from mr hein that's an overview we're finally.

A

Yeah it's an overview um from the common okay. Then we will go into close for legal on friday.

A

We have dedication to the tommy dell arch over the ag center commissioner kyler and I'll be attending.

A

And then the buck wild tractor pull right afterwards, commissioner kyler will be.

A

Attending and I may be as well but we'll figure that one out um commissioner vigliotti has the.

A

Podcast, for that sunday may 1st nothing scheduled shimmer commerce, breakfast.

A

uh On tuesday, up in taneytown, the library commissioner vigliati.

A

And I'll look at my calendar, but I I expect I'll be attending to to heckle him at least.

A

um It's or I hope you bring tomatoes, no popcorn anyways uh wednesday may 3rd board of education.

A

Fy 24 budget work session at 4 p.m. Just let us know if any board member wants to attend that.

E

Do we typically attend the budget work sessions or mr commissioner kyler may know better? I don't.

K

Think I don't think, we've ever attended. Okay, the board of education work sessions.

A

I don't think so so well, but we have time to figure it out. But commissioner gordon has the.

A

Planning zoning another one in the evening. That's interesting! It's like back to back.

A

I have a feeling one of them's coming off, but um the sheriff's prayer breakfast on thursday morning.

A

We got commissioners, gordon guerin, kyler and myself attending I'll be attending as well. So.

A

You got the five of us and then we will go into open session.

A

Upon return from that breakfast, so it may be a few minutes late, but we'll get there.

A

We go into the board of health, what happens with the administrative session just.

K

Just don't have it, we won't have the administrative just won't. Have it yeah yeah we've.

A

Had enough of our admin, we don't need anymore so, um but we will go into the board of health.

A

And yeah the uh at 9 15 at 10 o'clock, or excuse me after that we have.

A

The final approval to support westminster's rescues, rescue missions, application for fy24.

A

Recovery housing grants, um then we will have discussion on rural legacy.

A

Programs for the nesbit property and also the gasper and watson property.

A

Talk about a briefing on restaurants in the ag zone.

A

um Interesting tonight, how did.

B

Sometimes I wonder how some of these items get on here? What is the? What is the genesis of that? I'm.

B

uh Two things: um one: the um the concern that there are restaurants operating in our egg zone and they.

K

Don't the egg zone doesn't currently doesn't allow that and then. Secondly, the recent legislation that.

K

Was passed by the state of maryland, allowing organizations like wineries and others to have.

K

um Restaurants, so, and in commissioner, this is something that, uh and I will take the the blame.

E

For this, this is something that I've been pursuing since the beginning of our term in office. So I.

K

Wasn't going to say? Oh no, that's all right! I threw myself under this one. This is item four well. I had.

E

Watches with popcorn correct, it is so so we're getting our stuff in line with the state. Yes,.

A

Is that a good thing? No I'm kidding. Okay, I've asked that question.

A

um Boys and girls club uh youth of the year.

A

uh Commissioner, gordon will be attending at 5 15. I'll, be attending that as well and commissioner.

A

Karen- and maybe I got I gotta check my calendar so and and I'm fun event I may be, we got, we got.

D

An invitation both here and at home and right, the one at home, is laying next to my chair. So I think.

D

My decision may be made, um I'm sorry, commissioner rosting. Is it and isn't there a maryland municipal.

B

League meeting still happening in mount airy at some point, or is that still not say one more time.

B

Maryland maryland the uh municipal mml, I thought there was going to be something I think. That's.

E

A lot I think, that's a little later in may. I can double check on this. It is coming up and it is in.

A

Mount airy, I know that okay and when I'm not sure, okay, thank you yeah, um commissioner kyler has the.

A

Podcast and hopefully everyone will be attending mr bigley you're, not attending yeah. No, I will be.

E

There what's up with that you're, not on there. Oh I heard someone might have popcorn. I mean okay.

A

We'll all be attending the veterans celebration did. I miss anything, miss wanda, okay, he's 12.

A

21 is there a motion to adjourn so moved? Second, I got a motion. I got. Second, all in favor, aye opposed.