Carroll County, MD Board of County Commissioners Open Sessions, 5 Apr 2022

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From YouTube: FY 23 Proposed Budget Work Session April 5 PM

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A

Is 105 and we are back for our second work session- a lot covered over the last few hours.

A

Let's see where the next few takes us.

A

There is a couple of topics that we left off on correct.

A

Dealing with ongoing money.

B

There's two pages with ongoing one position: first part is.

A

The uh you have, you have the landscape, one with all the.

B

Issues and the the first part is ongoing, operating right right.

B

And then two pages behind that are some position requests.

A

Yep you're correct okay. So um what's that I'm talking myself so we took care of that.

C

A

We can go with the ongoing.

A

Operating you covered capital.

A

And then others was the one time request which I think we covered down on. So where do we want to go.

A

First, it's going to be either the triple or the ongoing operating second say our.

D

Position requests that are here for like solid waste facilities, we're waiting until.

D

We get the siegel report back before we hit them. Am I correct of that not necessarily so.

A

We can have that conversation, um okay on I'll, say, there's low-hanging fruit, but there's.

A

There's the positions that we know will occur with the siegel study coming in, but.

A

We we just know that they're going to be identified, so we can address those.

A

You know we can. I mean I'm sort of the mindset that we've got, that 7.2 million set aside for.

E

Sigel right, you know why can't we dip into that a little bit to perhaps use in filling some of these.

E

uh Position requests: well, you can uh there's nothing sacred about that that money just keep.

B

In mind why it was put there, though, you have position, requests in front of you.

B

Which is business as usual right? There are lots of other positions that could have been.

B

In the mix here right, none of that is specifically about why we took on the studies, though, that was.

B

To say, we've got problems other than just how do we? How do we get enough people or how do.

D

I say it whether we were doing the study or not we'd, be talking about these positions right right.

B

Right so with with siegel we're talking about what changes do we make to compensation and and how we.

B

uh Do things but although we have said partially, there's probably going to be.

B

The need to add positions in connection with making all that happen right. That's correct,.

E

And it's not necessarily all about compensation. It's about structural changes.

E

That you know we free up something over here right. That, in turn allows us to do something over here.

B

It could be, although I don't think, there's going to be a lot of opportunity there and yeah sure.

B

You know on the idea of waiting for sigel for positions. You know, what's going to come.

B

Out of that is is not going to be. You need this position or you don't need that position right.

C

Right, although if you remember to the first report, one of the things they said was you're pretty much.

B

Lean everywhere right yeah, they said we don't see opportunity for major change by uh getting rid of.

B

Positions, you need more positions, right, yeah and a couple categories that they definitely highlighted.

A

Was the administrators you know getting a deputy the I.t uh hr? I mean there were certain areas that.

A

They highlighted um you know the the the challenge also is not to look at this like salami slicing.

A

Increases, although there will be the requirement to get to the minimum wage, but uh that's where I.

A

Think the single study is going to help us um at the end of the day. Is the compensation.

A

Just well I mean I I think so yeah I think so too. I just think that you know, but I think I.

E

Think we can address some of the positions now and knowing that we do have money set aside right.

D

Now so say: I'm okay with addressing positions now, but the seven and a half million dollars she's.

D

Put aside for sigel, I don't think we should touch until we see the study. We don't know how much of.

D

That we need, if we have extra, that's great, but if we're going to start chipping away. That now I mean.

D

There's I don't know how many positions there are in other things and how much would we have left.

E

Well, the only thing we're going to see in the next part of the study is the compensation part of it.

E

Which, I think will take out the major part of that money. It could but who's to say that we have to.

E

Go by exactly what you're saying we don't, we don't have to do that. So, if they're saying we need seven.

E

And a half million dollars in raises I'm here to say: well we're going to do what we want to do.

A

Nobody's saying that, okay, when it comes into well there's, there's such a thing as cost of living.

E

As it pertains to you know, carroll county as well, that I don't want to forget in this whole mix.

E

um And and the median the the median cost here of living in carroll.

E

um I just I don't want that to get lost in all of this and okay, the single study.

B

Is not going to give us the number right they're not even going to tell us here's.

B

What you should do right, they're, going to be pointing to places where they're saying.

B

If you want things to be different, here are some ways you could go about it now on the idea that.

B

There will be extra money in that seven and a half million dollars. I don't, I don't believe.

B

There's any chance of that happening great, we might choose not to spend all of it, but it's.

B

Going to because we it's going to be because of the implementation implementation choices that we.

B

Make I think, when we look at all the things that we think we could should do to make things better.

B

The cost will exceed anything that we can actually even hope to do. When we talk about.

B

The things that could that we're going to look at now there'll be more details attached to all this.

B

But we're going to be one of the things we'll be talking about raising scales.

B

You know so, just in a general way, people will make more money and that's going to be.

B

Very specifically, tied toward recruitment, you know uh higher base pays, make it more likely that we.

B

Attract people to apply for the jobs in in the first place, then another piece of this will be.

B

Moving people through scales: where do we place them right now, when you lift the scales people.

B

Who are already here, don't necessarily benefit from that. You know if you're in a job category.

B

And the starting pay went up that doesn't help you. What are we going to do about that and some of.

B

This might be about looking backwards to you know, people who have been here but didn't move at other.

B

Times we're going to be talking about things like do. We want to look at how we pay people.

B

When we hire them with experience differently, you know right now we're pretty inflexible about.

B

What we pay when somebody comes on, are we going to change that and with a lot of these things,.

B

There's going to be interesting conversations to have because there's clearly good to be able.

B

To offer somebody who's bringing experience more money to get them to come here, but then.

B

We have to think about what impact does that have to other people who are already here.

B

Another thing we're going to be looking at is our supervisory promotion policies. You know.

B

Right now, that's pretty rigid too. You move from here to here. Here's what what you get sometimes.

B

People are looking at that and saying nope, that's not enough to make me want to take that that job.

B

And there's going to be a series of things like that and every one of them.

B

There's going to be some room to say: yeah we want to do that. How much do we want to do and how.

B

Much of the money is that going to take up, but I believe that in the end we will look at all these.

B

Possibilities- and we will have strong arguments for making changes in all these areas and.

B

We won't have enough money to do all the things we're saying yeah. We ought to do that just like.

F

Our budget, yes right, therefore, I don't want to touch the seven half million dollars.

D

I wanted to stay there, I'm with you, we'll, look at this other stuff and see how we want to handle.

D

That, but leave that money there until we get the study back and see what we could do with it.

F

How does our budget look if all these positions got adopted? There's not there's no money, because.

E

There's no money for one position well perspective, so to speak.

B

There's say six hundred thousand dollars worth of positions there.

B

Your bottom line gets worse by that amount plus right uh well, yeah. We have benefits.

B

Built into these numbers right, yeah, okay, so your bottom line gets worse by about 600 000 a year.

F

And I know we have a crisis of all this potentially, if not already.

B

Yeah, I'm not sure this has come up, but this probably good place to mention.

B

In connection with facilities, because um several of these positions are connected to facilities.

B

In the recommended budget, uh we did include new positions for facilities.

B

Recognizing that we're adding about 125 000 square feet of buildings with.

B

State's attorney sheriff charles carroll, and what am I forgetting.

B

uh The training center, the public sector yeah- I think this one.

B

So that doesn't address their.

B

Current pressures- that's just not making the pressures even worse because of the new buildings.

F

That's what it looks like.

G

Yeah, this is what it looks like without it close to 12 million negative.

A

And it would put the fy 26 in the red as well and before. I think it was 27 that smoothed out.

G

Yeah 26 was already 200 000.. Well, not when we started the numbers yeah. It was 300 000 for the.

A

Good right and now we're looking at it being it's the ems training yeah, it's getting crusty yeah, so.

E

Well, that's interesting! Well, if you're not going to look at using any of that set aside money for.

E

Future uh segal work, then I would suggest that none of these positions will be able to be filled.

A

I'm not sure why we wouldn't look at that seven and a half million one more time.

D

We could decide to do whatever you want. No, I mean I'm just saying you're advocating to.

E

Not touch it at all, I am advocating not to, and you agree, but I'm one you guys can we can look.

D

At it you know I I I have less money to implicate the single study. I think there and it's not just.

D

About compensation, it's about it's just from what I understand there's a lot going into it.

D

That would hopefully make the county a better place, yeah wow, so we need money to implement it.

E

I'm not disagreeing with that. I just think that some of these positions.

E

I I don't know, I mean, for instance, the the uh the outs, the outsourcing of the detention center.

E

uh Maintenance, I I think that case was clearly made that would free up.

E

A couple of the folks in facilities that they that they need, which might there's an offsetting.

F

Balance they're not needing them, the other, employ one or more employees or something. Well. I don't.

E

It could create that I don't know, but I thought it was a result. I thought they made a good case.

E

As to why that should be done, I do as well. They can't find anybody that wants to work there and.

E

If you've got a company that is willing to come in and do the maintenance on it with with just.

E

A general supervision, some sort of supervision from one of our folks. I think it's a good idea.

E

But you know that's recurring that begins at about 186 grand so yeah and on that one I don't believe.

B

Facilities would make the argument that that offsets any of the needs that they've identified.

E

Well, I kind of asked the question, though you know that would free up, if you don't have somebody.

E

Specifically, of course, there's nobody filling the position now they they throw somebody over there.

E

That is working somewhere else so, but I kind of ask if we did have that off of your plate.

E

Would it assist with other personnel, and the answer was yes yeah? I think it would make it.

B

Easier for them to do everything they need to do it just wouldn't eliminate the need for that.

E

Okay, okay, I said it wrong, but I'd like to see that in there I think, that's a, I think. That's a.

E

A great plan moving forward for that facility, especially considering the fact that it's aging.

D

I I obviously with the way the questions I asked today, I'm not for that. I'm for getting.

D

Two people that are trained for that facility and when they're not working here, they can work.

D

Other places and it will cost less money, but you know I'm not. The expert on public works.

D

And but you know, I just think it would serve the county better. That way to have two of our.

D

Own employees working here to train for there and, like I said when they're not needed there, one or.

D

The other, then it can work somewhere else. We if we contracted that out, we don't have that flexibility.

D

Those people that are contracted that will be there, we're not going to have to take not going.

D

To have the availability, I don't believe to pull them anywhere else, because they're contracted for.

D

That particular place, but they're contracted only during the time that they are needed in.

A

That particular place okay, and it's still more than happened to getting two full-time employees.

E

Which you're not gonna, find good luck, hiring two employees to work over there.

E

You can probably start them out at 120 grand a year and you ain't gonna, find anybody who wants to work over there and do maintenance. I might be tempted.

E

I mean I'm exaggerating, I know but you're just not. I know it's difficult. I do know.

D

It's difficult to find, I I I mean. Maybe the contract is the only way to go, but I'd rather.

D

Look the other way. First, you can always contract.

D

And if you set the money aside for contracting, you can't get to employees that would save us some money. Then you've already got the money set aside for it.

F

I like having the depth of a company that specializes in that, because, if we're.

F

Outsourcing it and they come up short, they have the bench and the depth. The problem pulled from.

F

Other resources to help out- and I think that's what facilities is getting at it. It's one less.

F

Thing on their plate to be stressed about that, the outsourcing outfit would take care of that.

C

E

Where's our bottom line right now.

F

A

Well, I don't know is that the one with all the positions added in yeah? That's now you.

E

Should take that back out? No, that's with all the positions added in no there. It is.

D

That's not that much difference to be honest with you. It's not well hundred thousand in.

A

Your life, seven hundred thousand dollars, oh, come on, I mean yeah when you go out. Yeah yeah.

A

So that's pretty significant. I would entertain taking those six positions at earth. All those.

E

Positions out and putting in the outsourcing of the detention center preventive maintenance.

D

Take away all those other positions, yep.

D

Right now, well, that'll come to a lot less money.

D

But we still need, I mean you said yourself: how are we getting away with one? Was it.

D

One fire inspector well and the permits processor we we need. I mean it's not like.

D

These people aren't needed, but you argue that the segal study is going to tell us more about that.

E

That's what you're arguing? No! No! No! No. I didn't say that the single study is going to talk about.

D

Compensation, it does not necessarily talk about any of these particular positions.

D

If we need a fire inspector, we need a fire inspector, but the point that ted made too was.

E

We didn't hear from other departments- indeed, we only heard from these because that's what they.

E

These particular departments came up with yes, which doesn't diminish the needs here. I just.

D

Wanted to make sure we understood that you didn't hear from everybody yeah yeah.

E

And I well I in in the third time that I read siegel, I started the fourth and then I put it down.

D

uh Ending, never changed, yeah, never changed. You know there was an emphasis on there of of.

E

Having the help that's needed- and we don't have that right now, because there's less people doing.

E

A lot more so right, so if you're gonna, if you're gonna, do that, then I go back to my thought of.

E

Taking a little bit out of that 7.2 and putting that into the mix to help cover for the positions.

E

That were asked for including the outsourcing of the detention center prevented maintenance.

E

Well, if you added the outsourcing yeah, don't use that money. Take that out! Put that in.

E

Take a little out of the seven point whatever it is,.

E

Put the preventive maintenance in poor deb figured out the maintenance.

E

For the for the detention center that program yeah, you lost iran. Take that out put that in yes,.

D

No, no, no put that in there yeah put the contractors. That's what you want to see. I.

E

Want to see the contractors in there yeah see what that makes a difference. Can you I apologize, but.

A

Explain to the rest of us hold on a minute I'll get there hold on. You don't need to know simmer.

D

He said this is a fun time of year.

E

Now, they're, both in the facility got it sourcing the facilities right all the requested positions.

E

Okay, so where do we go from here? How much is that, overall, we got broken. Let's, let's look at the.

D

If you're, taking that as a single money, the 7.5 out the first year, because that money is ongoing,.

D

Too, so that would go with that, that's where I was going. How much do you want to take out.

D

What both those things add up to well, no, I was going to leave the detention center alone.

E

Because that's not really employee! Well, it is, but well if we gotta employ your contract, got to.

D

Pay for it somehow, I know so. You took that out of the single study, how much is left in siegel.

D

I just realized this screen was here, that's pretty nice. I can actually see it from here.

D

It's not bad now, I'll just do it this way, so people can't swim.

D

So, basically we're taking a million dollars out of the single study.

D

Ongoing to fill all those positions in the contract for these for the detention center.

D

So we have six and a half million or so left changed year. 26.

A

And we took the positions out correct now all that we're asked for are in there.

F

And that would leave what 6.25 in the seagull.

D

Well, I think, really what we should. This has some one-time.

G

Costs in it, so we probably should be doing this like this.

G

Just to offset yeah, I was growing 1 million and 24 000 by the assumption of the salary increases.

G

But this here and a little bit in the next line has some one-time costs and I was throwing.

E

Okay, so it's really the closer to the 800 000 ongoing, which grows to a million reductions going.

D

So realist, if we're looking at today's dollars, it's about a hundred thousand.

G

Yes, right, yeah.

A

Which would leave us the flexibility of 6.1 million for sql.

A

Is in six point six: something like that: six or seven, or something like that.

D

Five and a half yeah seven point: one million dollars in fy twenty four on the boeing way.

D

Okay! Well because it's already gone up since it's separate.

E

All right, I hate to keep skipping around here. While you are staring at that.

E

I got a question: we looked at capital, everything.

E

And the library technology, why was there nothing in 23, but they wanted something in 24.

B

They have, they believe they can meet their needs in 23, with, what's already programmed, they have.

B

Some one-time money, we you gave them plus there's a hundred thousand already in the recommendation.

E

Okay, so we increased it by a hundred grand in the recommended budget anyway. Well, the.

B

Recommended budget continues what was already in our plan of a hundred thousand dollars a year. Okay,.

B

Then I forget what year, but you gave them one time money somewhere not too long ago. The combination.

B

Of the hundred thousand, that's already in the plan plus, what's left of one-time money, gets them.

B

Through 23., okay and they're, saying in 24, it will no longer be enough okay, but we we did not put.

A

That in this yet now ccpl we put all these other capital projects, except for that one and um the.

A

Recreation area master plan design. We addressed whether we agreed with it or not. We addressed.

D

For this year, well, that's yeah, but yeah, but you know I'm here. I know that they need it, but.

D

I just I don't want that. I don't want it not to be forgotten in 24. I guess.

A

Why don't we put that in as a capital product yeah? I think we should.

A

Okay, but you know, if we're looking at one time money and we are yeah, if you add all.

D

Those things together, you look at about a million dollars of one-time money that we would add in 24.

D

Because we don't need anything this year had to add the million dollars, one time money and 24.

D

And we'll have another 21 million dollars in my time, money right at that point.

D

And that takes care of their all those needs out to 28 for their tech, uh their technology. Okay,.

D

They're going to be very happy with that, so I'll make a motion right now she wants to. I don't care.

E

I just I I was going. I was just checking this one more time and I saw that empty slot. There.

E

And I'm like wait a minute and then I'm not sure about this union mills recreation area. I mean they.

E

Wanted 35 000 out and 28. I mean whatever I I don't. I mean, let's go with the library.

A

With the one-time funds for the capital projects in 24., well, we can either go.

A

23 and hand it to them or wait till 24.. You know I mean why not wait till 24. if they think they've.

E

Got what they need in 23? I would be okay with putting it in 24., whatever the total of that is.

E

Okay and let them use it accordingly or do you want to well if you're going to give them one-time.

B

Money, it'd probably make more sense to put it in 23, rather than plan to put one-time money.

B

In earlier, whatever the total of those, whatever the total of that is put in 23., I say put it in.

E

23., that's one time, that's one-time funding, all right and since you said it, let's do it.

E

Yeah any further discussion, I'm all in favor all right again stop skipping around and then.

E

The 35 000 for the master plan and design of the union mills recreation area- I mean it's.

E

Going to be a lot more than that by fy28. Well, so I don't even know, I think we just got 30.

B

That's not right that should be 35 000.. It's the county match pos covers 90, oh okay, right! So that's.

B

That's for the master plan, uh that's not doing anything uh and the the question. You really need.

B

To consider isn't, are you willing to fund the plan, is? Are you really willing to fund changes.

B

To to that, there's no point doing the plan. If we're not going to spend other money on it right.

E

All right, well, I I don't know I mean it is my district, but.

E

I I'm just not sure about that at this point.

D

Well, since that's in the distance that could easily be looked at next budget.

D

Or something it could be right, I mean it's, it's a ways away: yeah.

E

I just don't look at it as a priority now and since we need every penny, we can get.

E

I think maybe we should just let that alone for the time being, all right, sorry about that, and we.

E

Skip back to the diversion to the person else, I was sort of scooting all around here. Sorry, sorry,.

H

I think you're right, I like that you're thinking out loud gives us something. Well, that's what we do.

B

And when we get to more emotions, if uh we could take it a little bit slower and if uh just make.

B

Sure we say clearly what the motion is and then what the end vote was. Let's not put it in take.

F

It so move it and take it out. Well, just so, when we get when we get somewhere that we make sure.

B

We capture it right right, so you gotta control. Commissioner williams, you got that one right.

E

You're good with that motion which that motion, the library.

E

Oh yeah, you guys good, okay, yes, but the ones I have highlighted.

E

Yeah I apologize. I skipped the library because I was looking down through here.

E

I was reading behind instead of reading ahead. How do our deficits look in the out years?.

D

Well, if you take it from the single study, it doesn't change it at all.

B

Oh yeah, and on this idea of the money we have put aside for implementation- and I know we talk about.

B

The siegel study- I just want to make sure people understand the money, isn't about the single study.

B

But what we choose to do with what we learn from the single study right, so it's just an easy way to.

B

Talk about it, but I just want to when we talk about how much money I know seven and a half.

B

Million dollars is a lot of money, sounds like a lot of money, but when you think about what we're.

B

Trying to do just to give you context uh in this year's budget, you gave the sheriff, I believe, a 14.

B

Change in how much money was available for salaries about 2 million dollars, he's asking.

B

For 2.95 million dollars, almost 5 million dollars for strictly compensation changes to 270 positions.

B

When we're talking about implementation, the other thing we're talking about the same sort of.

B

Compensation changes plus, possibly other changes for 670 positions. So when you think about five.

B

Million against this and seven and a half million against this, it no longer sounds that big. I think.

B

Valid point: okay,.

A

Well, we can look at the county positions that we have in front of.

A

Us we can look at the other than county positions, there's two or three of those.

A

My thing also is: we know, there's positions that are out there.

A

That should be addressed even in absence of the single study assessment, final recommendations.

A

I mean there are certain things we know regardless.

A

um Yeah and that kind of goes back to what I was saying earlier I mean we already know the.

B

Pressures on positions and providing services that that's not dependent on on any study right and.

B

Again, what we're going to get from from siegel is not an evaluation position by a position.

B

Of of need, so we know what we're going to know from them in that it's going to be more focused.

A

On you know, um they'll be focused on compensation, but we focus on the services we provide.

A

And what we're able to provide and what we're not able to provide um in any sort of depth.

A

And capabilities so well that that was more about the part we already.

A

Got right but but we can so with that said we can define what that means. You know.

A

I mean they spelt it out on a couple issues, but if we only know we're able to serve.

A

You know x, and we only have so much depth. Some of these positions make perfect sense. Yeah. We.

C

Should address them, um you know we did. We talked about having a deputy chief administrator, you know.

A

That should be addressed having a fire inspector should be. I mean there are services that we know.

A

Should be addressed.

A

A

Okay, the couple of requests that came from the outside the circuit judge.

A

Judge clerk and then also the animal control officer.

A

Came in front of us.

A

You know the jury clerk was brought to our attention.

A

About the amount of trials and all that kind of fun stuff they're going through.

A

A

Is there any feedback from any of you on that.

D

I think it's a working position. I do think that they need it.

D

When's, the last time we gave we gave them another position. We got at a courtroom and did we.

D

Do we give them the support positions for that from the increase of judges to where they are? I.

A

Don't think I think the way he was describing we have not added positions, I don't remember it. We'd.

B

Have to go back and look so that's an area where I wish we had more support from the state government.

F

Financially, I mean the circuit court's a a really funny one with the state, because they.

B

Do provide funding to the circuit court and we provide funding to the circuit court right.

B

And where the line is drawn changes from time to time, you know the state will say well, we were.

B

Paying for this, but now it's yours and every now and then they've actually taken back some.

B

Some costs, but it's a bit of a moving target, but no reason to think that they're going to make any.

B

Significant change. That's going to relieve us of funding responsibility. Is there some sort.

F

Of formula they use with the judicial branch distribution like to do with schools, because.

F

It all gets so convoluted to me. Is there anything like that applies to our courts and our finances.

B

No, you know, and it's um this is a real squishy area, the circuit court and state's attorney.

B

You know we're required in law to provide funding to them and you can look to case law.

B

That has kind of led to an idea that we are required to provide adequate funding and that.

B

Adequate funding is driven by what the state's attorney and the circuit court administrative.

B

Judge think is adequate. That's not that's not a blank check. You know if if uh the state attorney.

B

Came over and said you need to double my salary and you went to court with him. I set my double.

B

My budget and you went to court he's probably not going to win that case. The other side of.

B

It you can't cut his budget in half and think you're going to win that case. You know so there.

B

Aren't there are no lines, there's there's! No there's nothing that says: here's what you have.

B

To fund everybody understands, there's a certain area, that's that's possible, but.

B

Nobody can tell you what the right number is, but where there are lines are the the size.

A

And the amount of judges and within the court system of each jurisdiction, you know that's what.

A

You know, according to the judge, that's what he was describing was the increase that has.

A

Occurred over time um of the court here in carroll county and then the question is: have we increased.

A

The support structure, like the jury, clerks to that growth and I don't think the answer.

A

Is going to be? Yes, I think the answer is no. We've increased the amount of trials in the amount of.

A

You know case loads that these folks are going through and that's why he came to us so yeah and I.

B

I'm not arguing against the position. I don't know for sure. I would bet that we added when we got the.

B

Fourth judge spot: I would bet we added something. I just don't remember: okay, what that was okay,.

F

So I think we don't have to give it to him. What's that, I think they don't have to need that clerk.

A

Well, I think they do so I'm going to make a motion that we move using.

A

Our funds ongoing funds for this circuit jury, clerk.

A

Okay, is there any discussion on this? What do you mean using our.

D

Ongoing funds, we don't have any that's where it's going, isn't it coming from us yeah. It's.

D

Not like we have all good news: no, no, but well at least right see what it is. Okay, right, sorry.

F

Test drive it before you buy it.

A

Any discussion all in favor.

A

The other position was the animal control officer.

F

In the first year, it's all more than doubled. Well, we put the one-time money in for the van.

D

So that's not all true anymore yeah at the time the the idea was putting in a ban. Even if you.

B

Don't have the position right so that they have a a better backup, good idea. I can't remember who.

B

Suggested that now the question is: do do you want to fund another animal control position.

F

Do they generate any revenue of any sort like fines or fees services? Yes, that comes to us, though,.

B

And it's already already built into your revenue projections: how large is it relative to their it's.

F

Minut or it's it's not significant, so it's not something we could look into maybe increasing.

F

Fees or something to offset it. Yes, there are fees, you could change, but it it's not going to offset.

B

A position all right because I thought maybe if there are some fee adjustments, it could cover that.

F

So you're saying it, it wouldn't happen yeah it could. It could get you closer, but it's hard to.

B

Imagine that you would make a big enough change to. You know cover the additional position. I have.

F

No idea what type of financial structure they have over there and how revenue comes in outside of us.

B

Are the revenues in here.

F

Because it'd be nice if they could potentially evaluate their fee structures like we did in.

F

Errors because they could potentially have their fee structure too low. Now they're they're yours.

B

They're, your fees, well they're, air fees; okay, I thought they were separate. You know it's.

F

Did we review those uh from time to time it comes up, doesn't get a whole lot of attention.

B

Right, I just don't recall we have not talked about that. Okay! No! Thank you.

F

I don't remember, you know, remember the humane society.

B

Is its own organization we contract with them to be our animal control? Animal control is your.

B

Responsibility, so these fees license fees and and impound fees uh you set those and in your role as.

B

Providing animal control, because if we keep coming in and filling the shortfall, I don't think they.

F

Have any real motivation to go and review their fee structure? Well, if you look at it, you're.

D

Talking about dog licenses and so forth, all that stuff, if you raise them, people just won't get them.

D

Not everyone gets them anyway, so I mean you're not going to track me down. If I don't pay for.

D

My dog license, but the cost of everything is going on yeah. I understand that, but.

D

I I don't know what it costs. I think it's 20 a year or something like that for a dog license.

D

Which isn't much, but you raise it to 40, I might not be buying it next year. Not me personally.

D

No, that's out there, you don't have your license. That's just what's going to happen now.

B

The revenue there's, no, it's not like you're driving your car around. He needs a plate with.

D

A little sticker on it, everybody see that sure, but there's a lot. That's the same ted.

B

You can see the revenue in total might add up to 150 000.

A

You can staple the license on the dog. Well, if they're all out there listening for me.

C

If they want, they can try to look at it. That might be helpful, see if they.

F

Think it eventually need to be revised, but it's our fee, oh more, like 100 than 150, okay,.

B

Right but it's yours to set yeah, I mean they'd, have to counsel and advise us to.

F

With their in-depth knowledge of where it's at and what the trending is, and all that.

F

If they think it's worthwhile and something that should be brought to our attention with data.

F

For us to make that decision, but I just don't know, but I was hoping there's some.

F

Money out there somewhere, it's just voted on increasing water, insure fees.

D

Well, actually, for this one I wouldn't, I would say we would have a public campaign saying.

D

Get your dog licensed- and this is what the money's used for this helps out.

D

Most people don't realize that I'm not aware, I don't know how many dogs are unlicensed in carroll.

D

County- but I bet there's quite a few 27 342. I pay for that guy right. There he's a jeopardy winner, so.

A

I agree we can do that, um but we can also, like you said, is take a look at fees. I wouldn't say.

A

Doubling them you know, but if there are twenty dollars going to 22, 50 or 25, or something which.

A

Makes sense you know we do owe it to the community, because it is a fee structure and those that.

A

You know are paying for that animal or has that responsibility should.

A

Pay for the fees, I think that's been a very good thing. We've done with this board.

F

Is go and look at all the different fee structures and bring them in line with where things are now.

F

And this is no different. Well, let's look at let's how long it's been since the the dog license fee.

D

Was was increased and all the other fees they made whatever they only. They don't have many.

D

But what their fees were and but what? Okay, if you look at what it costs, what is it? What does that.

D

Cover you get your dog licensed, you don't get a benefit from that. It's not like you can take.

D

Them here and here you can take them anywhere anyway, if you lose them, you can find them and.

D

Bring them back to have a chip, although they're, not all dogs, dogs or chips. Now that doesn't matter.

D

Right say it again: if they're registered, no, you don't need their license to be chipped.

D

You don't no is that something animal control does or is that a different facility.

F

Did they check? I don't know my dogs were all chipped before I got them. Okay, I don't know who.

D

Did it was, if that's a service benefit to you, get it out of there for revenue.

D

Because you know, if you're looking at that, you become a dog chipper.

D

I'm just saying that's a that's a you want to raise the fee.

D

And I'm not saying it's a bad idea, but he would raise a fee for dogs license.

D

Why would you get the dogs like this? What how does that help you or your dog.

F

I realize: is there a law requiring them to be licensed? Yes, yeah yeah, okay were.

D

You arresting people for not having dogs like yeah, but we could have finds on them.

F

Well, we do there is. There is alright, and still it's just hard to it's, not an easy thing to see.

C

It's hard to enforce. I get that. I know I don't remember looking at these fees, seven years that.

E

We've been here, do you dick? I think it warrants their attention, so maybe it is.

E

Good that might help a little bit. Let's look at the next next budget session.

F

Society, I wonder how many people in animal control are out there watching this right now.

F

If any, can you call three more that are there? Maybe you know what that means.

E

Maybe heidi get a feel for if other jurisdictions, they ought to know that what they charge, what it.

E

What it costs to get a dog licensed in baltimore and frederick or something I don't know, I don't.

C

Like to do jurisdiction, comparisons, but maybe we're way behind, I don't know it seems to be a.

F

Constant theme that we are in this region, we need to kind of look at our surrounding jurisdictions.

F

Get a feel for that not off ems, but even things like this well, I will say that they certainly.

E

Made the case to put a person in that new van you just bought them. I think I think it's worthwhile.

D

I think I think we should try to do that. If we can, I do. They did make a case that you know if.

E

Somebody's off it's that they only have so much territory or whatever um yeah. So I mean it's gonna.

D

It's gonna mess we're place holding now anyway, so why not just yeah put it in there I'll motion.

E

We put a anima control officer in there in the front seat of frasier's new van okay.

A

Any other valuable discussion seen here, none all in favor. Did you put the word valuable in.

A

Here I couldn't say anything: did you say I? I say that okay just want to make sure.

A

Have dog tags? You have dog tags? Okay, they don't give you a big net, all right. What's that do now.

A

It just puts us further in a hole in 26., yeah, 26 and 27. Looking huh it's looking nasty.

A

And we haven't gotten the hard stuff yet yeah. Well, some of it.

A

A

And you said this does include all of those positions.

A

That you know from facilities and solid waste and yeah, because we took it from single money.

F

Would it endorse reduce eagle like three quarters of a million or something.

F

But whatever eight hundred thousand, I believe.

G

I reduced deceitful by the ongoing costs.

G

Not the total! For the first year we could put another 270, it's about 270 000 at one-time cost.

G

We could use, we could take another 270 one-time surplus funds to cover that if you wanted to.

G

Sounds like a good one. Second, it's a good idea. That's why she makes the big bucks.

D

You're probably dying for one of us to think of that.

A

Okay, we all agree on that say: aye.

F

Ted, are you reading a good book right now to help you get through all this always good me as well.

C

F

Would it be a wise idea to take the.

F

Balance and unassigned funds and apply it to offset and bond financing in the future.

F

You have a feel for that. It doesn't save that much money well here. Here's how I want to preface this.

F

Is I am well aware that the out years the cost of our financing is going to exponentially escalate.

F

And it's not showing up in these numbers because we don't know what it's going to be. But I foresee.

F

That's going to happen so financing 10 million in the futures will be much more expensive.

F

Than our chart shows so that, if we offset say 10 million at finance of one-time funding,.

F

We're going to save money in the future and finance costs our the our future bonds.

D

We've already bought the bond. We already have the bonds that's set for the next 10 or 20.

D

Years, arizona, bonds, that's what the debt service is. That's, not changing, so we're locked in yes,.

F

There's no variation on it from here on out. Unless we we refinance those bonds somehow.

C

That's we're talking about existing debt or future debt. If you talk about something we're.

D

Going to lose 10 years whatever, if we could potentially I'm trying to figure out a way to.

F

Save money in the future on debt financing, if at all possible, well you're talking about having that.

A

Well, yeah, the way to do that is to put 10 million aside and it's in five years.

D

Instead of getting bonds for 10 million use the money that way, that's what you're talking about.

B

Yes, we we can do that, then, as always, you know it's just it's a it's a trade-off. You know trade-off.

B

Between having the flexibility of still having the money versus, you know, you know using it to.

B

Reduce your debt, uh another one, there's not a right answer. It's just.

B

Just a choice we have to make you know: how do we, what do we feel better about.

A

Well, by doing that, we would be increasing the debt on the county.

A

No he's going the other way he's saying if we had planned 10 million dollars of debt in the future.

B

Put 10 million of cash on and not issue the debt? Oh safety just hold the 10 million dollars of.

D

Science, that was needed for some capital expense. Basically, what you're saying well, we wouldn't even.

B

Hold us up: if we're going to do that, we would take the 10 million dollars. We would put it into that.

B

Capital project right and then it gets spent whenever coming right. Okay, we just reduce that.

F

Amount from the finances, and I'm wondering how much does that save whether it's worth it at least.

F

Look at it potentially well right right now: a million dollars of debt is probably 50 000 a year.

B

Of debt service now, as you said things, we don't know what it's gonna be two years from now or four.

B

Years from now, but just so you know for planning purposes in the future. We don't assume that we're.

B

Going to continue to sell at what we're selling today, we do build in uh higher costs right now. We.

B

Have no way to know if we get it right or not, but we aren't just drawing a line through what we have.

A

So 10 million dollars would be 500 thousand 500 thousand very good because that half male 1.

B

If rates go back up, but I mean right now, it's not.

A

That casual bottom line one more time. Well, I'm sure it's not one more time, but for now.

A

So from the start to where we are now, we pretty much change seven hundred thousand dollars in.

A

A

Went further downhill with the others.

D

Not a lot yeah, we did it's not a lot worse than it was.

D

I don't think it is it's seven hundred thousand and twenty six, it's almost a million in 27 and.

A

What 28 pretty much stays flat, which is interesting? Why is 2627 that much of a difference and 28 remains.

A

Flat to where we started it, it probably has to do with the sheriff's office right. The costs.

B

There's lots of things that can lead to bumpiness in here.

B

When debt service hits when new ongoing operating costs hit.

B

And also on the revenue side, uh you know we talked about the assessments that we have built in in in.

B

The future they're not all the same, so the revenue number doesn't always grow in the consistent way.

A

Have we looked at the school's request, yet no okay.

D

Agencies right requests for higher salaries right.

A

What was the sheriff's request for percentages for salaries? It was 1.99 condition. Remember you.

B

You tried to have that conversation and it got into a very lengthy talk about how they.

B

Apply it so we never really got to it. Even when I talked about what you did this year, when I said 14.

B

That wasn't 14 per person that was 14 for the entire pie right, so um we could, after you do that.

D

So they're getting 14 more this year than last year.

B

From 21 to 22., yes, some of them is more. Some is less right, not personal 14 increases.

A

Significantly pretty nice, yes and another 4, then on top of that right, wow, but it still doesn't get.

A

I I know that I understand, I know, and I know that there everybody's trying to get to what.

E

Is perceived to be the magic number, the magic number of where everybody starts and where.

E

Everybody should be step wise, uh which you know I'm here to say again it's just not that easy.

E

This is excellent, you know, there's also we forget about cost of living. We forget about.

E

What the median income is in carroll yeah, so it's time we always compare salaries to.

E

Surrounding jurisdictions, it seems like that's how we always do it, but yet.

E

Our cost of living is certainly much cheaper than montgomery or baltimore or howard.

A

Yeah maybe, but I know so it I just don't think that they're they, the sheriff's department, is.

A

Looking at the surrounding jurisdictions, I think they're, looking at a larger amount.

A

Of those jurisdictions, and even if you threw out montgomery baltimore county and some of the very.

A

Counties that skew those numbers, you will still see that they are roughly.

A

Lower than the median averages and- uh and that concerns me- I mean it just concerns me too yeah.

E

I mean we haven't even started on fire and ems. I know on your question about the sheriff's.

B

Request so right now we have four percent increase already built into the recommendation.

B

To get the additional amount would be about 12 and a half percent on top of the four percent.

E

So if you do it percentage-wise, it was a 14 increase for salaries from 21 to 22.. Four.

E

Percent 22 to 23, but an additional 12 is needed so percent yes, so 16 and 14 is a 30 percent increase.

H

And that goes into kind of the 15th percentile.

E

Right that exactly what that means, yeah, because we can't be at, I don't know, what's.

D

360 000 can't be half of what these people are making in other jurisdictions. Can it.

D

62 thousand and people in in howard, you know 120. No, that's not what they're saying I I didn't think.

D

It was yeah, so I need I I mean to understand what that percentile means better. I just need to know I.

A

Think what would I believe, and they can come in and correct us, but is that the 50th percentile.

A

From of of all the jurisdictions may be, um you know 70, 000 and they're below that, so they need.

A

That increase to get to that 50 percent right- okay- it's not 50 percent increase. It's to get.

A

Them to the 50 percent! So what half? Basically half of what correct you're going to make that.

A

Either 1.9 or 2.0, whatever number it was yeah. That makes sense. I mean I just think it's it. It's.

E

Incredibly challenging for us to get from point a to point c yep like that. Yes, I mean last year.

E

We did a little bit to get to where they need to be and- and maybe we're looking at that again but.

E

I don't know where it's going to be, even if we're looking at a little bit because, right now we don't.

E

Have it but right we're going to face the same with ems? Well, they're, starting out! If you want.

E

To use the word woefully low, I'll I'll I'll show you woefully and raise you double woefully because.

F

Triple, dare should show me that yeah, when I seen they won, emts were like 16 bucks, an.

F

Hour I was like, but he'd get a mcdonald's and get that. That's that's what some of.

B

The volunteer companies are doing. That's not what okay will be suggested, we're going to be.

E

A little bit different place, but and on your your question about, if you did the sheriff's.

B

Request this year, what would the two-year change be at it's about 28 and a half percent.

A

Right what what percent was that 28 net 28.3.

B

Right we got to do sheriff and emts the same, but we got to bring them up to an acceptable level.

E

Which is why I'm thinking, if we can do a little- maybe that's the better way to do this.

E

I just don't, have I don't know how we're going to get to a to z? No, I think right, even if we.

E

Use that three-letter word that we talked about four hours ago. We can't get from a to z,.

B

Okay, when you said on emt, we need to bring up. I don't want to lose we're not bringing anything.

B

Up we, we are creating a paid system. That's going to have a pay right, it's not about how much is.

B

A current emt working for a company making yeah they're consistent start, but then in the out years,.

E

You're going to see that occur with them, it's the same with the sheriff department. You know when.

E

The right when the sheriff's department took over law enforcement here from the state police, it's a.

E

Similar situation, you know growing pains, obviously you're going to have them. You can't just give.

E

Everybody everything right out of the gate and say: okay, you're golden! You can't do that, even if we.

E

You know people keep talking to me about. Well, you know if that 59th board wouldn't have cut that.

E

Tax rate trust me that three million, or whatever it was, would be long gone on something.

B

This is about about. Eight million is what we're talking about here? Okay, just just.

D

Okay, again long gone yeah, but if we.

D

Whatever right now, we could use it. We could find all these pay increases.

F

Is card a three letter word that gets you from a to z, so.

D

Not a today's basis back a couple steps: we were talking about um savings on on debt service.

B

uh Right now, a million dollars at two percent, which is where we've been recently, is about sixty.

B

Five thousand dollars uh a year now, of course, if the rates go up, then the cost or savings.

B

Depending which way you're going would go up as well, so it'll be about 650 000 waves described.

A

I want to keep pulling the thread on the sheriff.

D

What did you say? I want to keep pulling the thread to having a discussion on the sheriff's department.

A

um They're asking for how much one more time say: three million three million for their salary.

F

Three million: that's what dr eagle asked for.

A

You we're looking at know.

A

All the constraints that are around us and then how to balance all this out. Obviously we.

A

Put this requirement in there there's going to be something very specific: that's got to be taken out.

F

F

Is a bonus out of the question instead of a salary increase? Didn't that get done before as an option.

A

Hr problem they put band-aids on the attempt here is to fix the scale yeah and that's what.

A

And that's and that's the issue is we got to get them balanced to where they can retain the quality.

A

That they have- and you know I think, every one of us talks about safety, security and education.

A

This is the major muscle um find three million to cut recurring and I'm good with it.

D

And then the problem is, in my opinion, this isn't the only pay increase that.

D

I hopefully we're looking at I'm, you know looking at the college looking at.

D

What you're, looking at board of education what's an additional event and uh the library library is.

D

What I couldn't think of so and yeah and account yeah well, hopefully, that's what's left of seven.

D

Half million helps with that part, but it's true all those, if you add all this together, that's.

D

A lot more money than we're doing just no way to get to it.

D

So it I'd like to see some a steps. You know we can make a step here step here step there.

D

Which is what we've been doing to show well yeah, but it shows we're in good faith moving.

D

In the right direction we are but we're, but the problem is they're not able to retain.

A

Their workforce, that's what I heard well, how many people did they lose serious departments.

D

No, I don't know, I think, you're right I mean, I think there was one in the last couple months. Yeah.

A

I think yeah yeah in the last month or so into another into another field. I I have no objection.

D

To raising the pace scales for these particular groups, but I think it's a false narrative to say.

D

We're going to raise the pay scales because people are leaving, because I don't think.

D

They're leaving the sheriff said in the past, whatever year or two years, hardly anyone's left.

D

I think it's the same with our other, the people that we pay salaries to as well.

D

Now some people do leave, don't get me wrong, but I think the reason to raise a pay scale is to make.

D

It competitive so we can hire and keep people yeah and that's what I like to do yeah. I think.

E

For me, it's more about recruitment, I mean I can. I don't know how you're ever going to combat the.

E

Retention part of it right, you can't keep people from training somewhere and going somewhere else.

E

Talk to the folks in baltimore county that have lost firefighters that have gone to montgomery.

E

Or to howard I mean it's, it happens in every jurisdiction, we're not we're not on an island.

E

When it comes to that, I mean I worked with several folks when I was in the fire department that left.

E

That went to another jurisdiction. Well, we are on an island in the sense that every.

A

Surrounding every surrounding jurisdiction is pulling away from us because of who they are.

A

Right, howard, montgomery baltimore county, I mean frederick, they all have, but I don't.

E

Know that they necessarily sit there and go okay, there's another carroll county class coming out.

E

Let's get four of them guys, I wouldn't put it past. Nobody do you think so I mean I can't imagine that.

E

I don't think that they're, I think it's it's in general, you know, first of all, with the police.

E

Department, it's it's a general thing right now that being a police officer is incredibly.

E

Challenging absolutely so it's it's not just about you know. Who are we going to train and oh we're.

E

Going to lose them right, I think it's more of the if it's more universal, if you will yeah uh howard.

B

County did have a police recruiting billboard on 140 for a while yeah and the the classes.

E

So I just I guess back to my point- is over the last several years that we've been here: we've.

E

Been doing a little bit right to try to get to where we need to be, and I know we get outpaced.

E

A little bit, but I think we're catching up. uh I believe the entry level uh police.

E

uh Or sheriff what's right about this is about where it should be, and that's as a result of.

E

The things that we've been doing a little bit at a time, what is it 42 or something? I don't know.

A

More than that, I think it's like 50, but it's it's right in that same.

A

Bubble they they showed the graphs right. um I mean we just don't think we have the ability.

A

Right now to be able to just go okay there, it is and you're good. So how much did we give last year.

D

Last year was fourteen percent. What was the five percent yeah the amount? What.

A

Was the amount that we gave last year was over two million? It was 2 million.

D

It's a bargain to today's prices. Okay, so starting pay is 56 yeah.

B

And in 22, we've had three civilians: three law enforcement and three correctional.

B

Positions where people left yeah incredible corrections, really tough yeah corrections.

D

They're having a tough time, okay and they just graduated nine, which is good, yeah yeah. I know.

A

Okay, these are placeholders, you know.

A

I want to see two million go in for the sheriff's office and then.

A

From that, though, I need to well, I will say I need I apologize. I would like to see the analysis on.

A

What that two million would look like in the in the pay scales we can't. We have no way to give.

B

That to you, we have no way to give that to you. We don't we don't know what it would look like.

B

Even the last, when you gave them the two million dollars last year,.

B

I don't know how long was it before you knew how it was applied.

G

Between between their office and us, it took a few days to work through it. Okay, yeah definitely.

A

I mean we can handle a few days. You know I mean, and it's not going to be.

A

To the fine point, but we should be able to get some generalities of here is where.

A

Things are going to start lining up, okay. Well, we we can ask yes, we have no way to.

B

Make that no, but it's in their best interest that they, you know, move forward with this, but.

A

So, without going to the entire 3 million, go to 2 million.

B

Do you want to know how it's going to be applied they're not going to do 8 across the board? No, it wouldn't be across the board right.

D

All right, if you put that there, what about the other groups yeah, I mean the libraries, no we're.

A

Going to be they're barely making, I mean they're barely able to take care of minimum wage so.

E

If we're going to give a 30 increase on salaries to the sheriff's department,.

E

We ought to give the three percent increase to the library, I'm not saying: no, no, no, no! No! No.

D

You're saying, let's see yeah, that's good. So now let's look at the other groups. That's all! I'm.

D

Saying yeah, so do we agree with this? That's my motion. We could leave it as a placeholder.

A

I got a motion. Second, there's a placeholder we're good.

A

Yeah hi all right all right, I'm okay with that! There's a placeholder I'm against! Oh okay,.

D

You want to look at all right library. Do you have it in front of you, yeah 214 000 the first year.

E

And then it goes up and that's that's getting them. What are you looking at.

E

The paperwork that's been provided by. Why would you look at that stuff controlling that stuff, 227.

D

233 240., oh yeah, that's 48.! That's all yeah! That's ongoing yeah! So 214. That is what we're looking at.

A

Three positions: no, no five percent salary increase and then they also wanted minimum wage impacts.

B

Now, that's if you don't do that right, fixed salary increase, then they're asking for minimum wage.

E

All right, then, I would be included in the other as a placeholder. We put that.

E

Five percent carroll county public library, five percent salary increase in in the mix.

E

I agree second, if you're making a mission see what it looks like first, it looks like 214.

D

Then you can look at carroll community college as well yeah, which is the second lowest out of.

E

How many community colleges in the state an awful lot, and it is the second lowest? Yes,.

A

I don't know how that happened, that they became the second lowest they've, always been down there. They've always been in there.

D

In fact, I think they were the lowest before it was fixed. We bought the months of second.

A

I know they're the second lowest, so, let's put their 474 thousand 690 in there for carroll.

D

Community college say ted, you know on that. We've talked about this before I don't want.

B

To lose it now, this is not just about the community college. You know in carroll, county.

B

We have a long history of underpaying, whether underpaying relative to other jurisdictions.

B

You know you can look at the county, you can look at the library, the community college.

B

The uh the school system- it's this, it's the same, I know, but when you start, you know being outpaced by.

A

Allegheny and you start getting outpaced by kent county and some of these others that you're, like.

A

What's going on? Oh, I agree, I'm just saying it's not just the college. I think that's nothing. New.

D

And when they have better stadiums that we do uh less ag preservation more taxable income based on.

F

The industrial and commercial property helps them out; they don't have industrial property out there.

E

Yeah there's not much out there, I mean yeah they're, but they're, not finding it's in all the.

F

Ag preservation not that I'm against or anything but there's these are variables that impact us.

F

We we are unique and all these unique things do ultimately affect these bottom lines.

F

They don't work as much that that's another debate. I guess let's look at the last one.

D

Is the board of ed? I'm sorry go ahead, I was going to say you want to go with each one or.

A

You just want to get all three down the last one is the board of ed might as well throw it up there.

D

Although I have to say, I'm not they're asking for four million dollars.

F

In addition to, in addition to what they're already getting I'm, not in favor of the four.

D

Million dollars edition, so I went down from my 2.9 to two. So what do you? Let's take the.

D

Four to two: if you ask me it gives them. I've said this earlier and I want to beat a dead horse, but.

D

They they get a five-year budget from us that they see and they never work within that budget.

D

They always come asking for more money. It's just the way. It is if they and actually two.

D

Of them are running for this position. Who do we ask more money for that? The state doesn't give.

D

Us more the federal government to give us more. We don't do that. You have to make the tough decisions.

D

And I know it's I I just think they could manage it better, I'm not on the board over there. I don't.

D

Know what could be done? I'm not. I don't have suggestions but they're, giving over 17 million.

D

Dollars more this year than last year and still want for me on top of that, that's a bit and if.

D

It's going to be ongoing. My suggestion is two million dollars ongoing. Let's see where it goes,.

D

Of course it could be 12 because we don't have it anyway yeah. We don't have it so.

E

I mean it's getting worse and worse by the minute here: oh yeah, something we.

B

Talked about with the school requests and the things that they said they needed to fund.

B

If you wanted, if you want to do more towards salaries, I'm not arguing against it, just how they.

B

Got to their request number remember: there were things in there that were funded with one-time.

B

Sources of revenue that now they're they're asking you to pick up, um you know the title one and the.

B

Use of fund balance, you know so when you add those into, um we want four million dollars more.

B

I think that's that's at least a question and then uh the other piece of it was, you know they.

B

Talked about requests from town hall now that was focused on mental health and behavioral problems.

B

And it could be that that's a perfectly good thing to ask for, but the idea that.

B

It came from town hall requests, you know it's no different than you all hearing from people.

B

Why don't you do more about whatever and you're right part of the reason.

D

That they're, where they are, is because they funded ongoing money with one-time money.

D

And I remember asking them: are you funding that with one time money? Yes, we are.

D

Why we were on jail right and then they come in like what ted said about title one running now.

D

That's the federal government. We have nothing to do with that, but but it happens every year.

D

They always come well, the county will make it up. Okay, we have limits too, and I'd like to help.

D

Them out as much as I can, but we have limits too and we give them money to steal our employees.

F

It's my understanding, the title, one money uh it was never formed sent out during the covid.

H

And the federal government decreased that amount by a million they never followed up with the.

H

Forms needed to uh request title one yeah. Well, you know, however, that happened. It's not. I mean.

B

It's the same situation we face with grants over here, sometimes, which is why I would say.

B

To you, you know be be careful about taking on positions with grant funding. You know once you.

B

Create the service right people, people want it and it gets hard to say no later, even if the.

B

Grants go: go away, feeding the cats, okay, the cheapest part about the horse- is the horse.

F

Soaking that the um so I mean the positions.

A

The county positions that we put in there how many of them were there total six six.

E

uh I didn't know, I thought there was more than that. Actually it might be seven positions there.

A

Was more than that two three, four: five: six: seven, eight, eight, eight, eight! Okay! Sorry.

B

So um six in public works and well all in public works yeah, but there was eight total mm-hmm.

A

And if we looked at instead of too deep one deep in those positions.

A

Where they have too deep, oh and cutting it down to one to one I mean your pennies but yeah. It's.

E

Fine, I mean every penny counts: you're. Okay, does that mean that money is going to go back in.

D

The siegel's sunny money, because that's where it's taken from right now, no that.

B

And what's happening, or at least could be happening here- is a concern of mine.

B

Why I made the point of why we put that seven dollars? I know when you're trying.

B

To figure out how to do things, it becomes very attractive to just to take something from there.

A

If we're going from, I don't I don't disagree, but I still want to see what it looks like I mean.

A

Yeah, um but I'm here money I mean it's, not single money. That's our money.

D

It is reserved I mean, if we're going to do anything with the with the.

D

Study that we pay for, then we need money to implement it absolutely who's. To say that.

E

These positions won't be identified as having to be a part of that money that we set aside.

D

They will they won't be ted. Is the one that says it? How do you know they won't be because see.

B

What we're getting from seagull- oh! No! It does not work like that. It's not positioned by position so.

B

There are two things we could be looking at in positions here. One are what positions do.

B

We need to make the kind of changes that we're talking about and that's where we've talked about.

B

Hr and I.t might need more positions than they have in the administration and everything else.

C

Is about existing situations? Where are we facing service problems and that's pretty much everywhere.

B

These facilities positions and the solid waste positions there they are about. We don't.

B

Have enough people to do what you want us to do? That's that's there whether we did a study or not.

A

A

We did include the.

A

Outsourced position, or do we not include that yeah it's in there, the detention, okay.

A

D

Okay, I'm an advocate for saying that, if we're taking those.

D

Those positions they had two and cutting it down to one fine, we'll put the money.

D

Back in a single study yeah, so we can use it somewhere else. No, it's! Okay! First! So there's.

A

So there's two motions here: one is to take those two positions out and make them one deep. That's my.

A

A

So we want to keep those two positions, as is.

E

Well, that makes sense I mean, if that's, if you're going to do it, that way.

E

But I'm not here to argue about this study.

A

Okay, so I understand that but but so I understand what you're saying I understand what you're saying.

E

And some of what I'm reading in there, the study is identifying exactly what the position request is.

E

That we don't have enough people in certain areas.

E

So I understand what you're saying that: that's not what the study is: gonna gonna.

E

Do but yet I would argue that in the end, yes, it is because the impact on our workforce by the.

E

Very fact that people are doing more with less is indeed in that study. Oh, I agree in a broad way.

B

I'm just saying: there's nothing, that's coming that's going to say you should do this.

E

And a global look at this study, you could argue that these are a big part of that, even though.

E

They're specified abs, absolutely single is clearly saying right. We we don't have enough.

B

People, that's right: okay, yeah! No! I absolutely agree okay. So we got the motion that those.

A

Positions where there were two are now one and the money is going.

A

Back into the sigel study pot, I got the motion. I got this. Second, all in favor all right, yeah.

E

I'm good with that, if you're going to put it back because it's what we're doing anyway,.

E

Yeah, would you say all right? Okay, I'm against that all right! I don't want that. I want to take back.

A

My money, okay: where are we now um see ted's happier now pardon me you're happier.

A

And then here's the reduction, okay, um we're the outsourcing facilities. Can you just.

A

Caveat that by saying outsource in the yes, oh or is this out there is that.

A

What she is or no is that what out is that out on c? Oh, it probably says it can see.

A

Okay, yeah, that's good enough as long as you know, yeah. Okay, thanks thanks um to the bottom line.

A

No, we don't want to do that. Okay, yeah, that's a negative right! It gets worse about a minute.

D

Anything worse, we would have to cover this with one time right right.

A

Which is doable yeah, that is yeah that doesn't help you with success years.

E

Yeah three and five are covered: six, seven, eight suck, that's the that's the technical term.

E

That's and you might right.

E

The right to set aside right.

A

I don't believe we do, I don't think so either. No, I don't no. I don't think so.

E

We right, I don't think we have enough money so now we need to go through and start backing out.

F

All these things that we want yeah well, I I don't know what else we're going to do. I don't think we.

F

Can, unless you plug, unless you plug money into one-time money into this, to fix it, but that does.

E

Nothing for six, seven and eight, which is typically what we try to do and we we lost that last year.

E

Was that the first year we lost not having a five plus one balanced budget, or was it the year before.

B

It's hard to remember, it doesn't really matter well. I know it doesn't matter, but I.

E

Mean up until that point we always did that and worked hard to be able to do that so as not to.

E

Get to that proverbial cliff one year where you're like okay! Well, that ain't good right, like some.

E

Other jurisdictions do all well, no I mean we were stuck on that four years ago we saw that cliff.

A

The first budget yeah that cliff was there yeah, but I thought we were balanced.

A

I think we may have been balanced, but we saw it like it was inevitable yeah. So.

F

I like having this all up there, so people can see all their wish lists put together and.

F

How it impacts that bottom line, so they can put it in perspective. What we're faced with.

F

Because we got to start backing this stuff out well,.

E

uh The visa request for additional funding for ems was not addressed.

E

We get everybody else.

A

These uh ems and the evod positions.

E

Not addressed that's right, there not addressed this. Is the issues list? Oh it's not there. No! Oh.

A

Oh okay, I see what you think, but that's depending on what yeah, okay, I know where.

E

You're going yes, yes, yeah, we could just stand by there and see where we're going, based on the plan.

E

I guess, but still well we're going to talk about the plan next thursday. Well, we are but still.

E

I don't know that the plan will address the fact that people aren't making the amount.

E

Of money that they should be making, it was interesting to me when I asked the question.

E

To visa, you know if we provided this extra funding.

E

Would everybody get to the same level, which is where it should be, and the answer was.

E

What did they say? Entry level would be? Is that correct, yeah taylor yeah? They.

I

Can still use fundraising dollars to supplement as they see fit, but there would be a base level.

E

And you know you're going to hear a lot and then dick you're going to hear a lot wednesday night.

E

And we'll have to discuss it on thursday that the plan, whatever one we pick.

E

Doesn't do anything for those employees that are currently working.

E

And will continue to work at the companies that aren't going to be providing career personnel.

E

So, while we're taking care of law enforcement- and you know we're all about public safety here,.

E

We haven't done a thing for them yet and they're on the front lines, just as everyone else is.

E

So I would suggest that you know, while we're making this bottom line, look bad.

E

That we should plug in the request for visa uh for ems and the evod staff to get them.

E

Up where they need to be, but what about? I think when we started this plan originally.

H

These are the companies that they weren't, uh or they were funding that we are taking taking over.

H

That money would be saved and go back into to offset. That would be enough to do it it. Yes, I.

D

Think because I did ask that question, it depends on what plan we go with right. That number. uh What.

D

Is the first number 575 thousand yeah might be a lot less, but there will be a number there.

D

Until we know what plan we're going with, don't know what exactly that number will be.

D

What does the evon stand for again? Emergency vehicle operator driver.

E

Okay, so you you won't put this in now is what you're saying ah you won't put this.

A

In now, well, I don't know that we have to put it in now, based on and and taylor, that's correct.

E

That 575 is not necessarily going to be the number based on the plan, because some.

E

Of those folks will be removed from having to get the money out of that.

E

Line item: yes, if, if you did no county staff at all, this would be the number one intention is.

I

To do some county staff, so it will change, but the evod will stay the same, not necessarily.

I

Under all the plans the evods come under us, they're called fados then, but.

I

Which is firework? Okay, we're operator, okay, um but so both of those lines would reduce as we move.

I

Forward, okay cc visa would be decreased correct if I buy the amount going into those as well offset.

H

Not for fire, but prem house well for a little bit on fire too, because we're gonna.

E

We're gonna we're gonna so that ccv's will be decreased about by that much and that should even.

H

Out with yeah, I don't know if it's going to be a wash, but it's going to be close, it it'll be less.

E

Than what these figures are, so maybe we should wait. I just don't want to get it lost in the mix.

A

I we have a beginning salary set yet for this, or what we're thinking is that even thought about? Yes,.

B

It's been thought about, is it thought about and solidified for each type of position.

I

45, okay, so for.

B

The the basic position we have 45 built into the projections you have, I don't know.

B

That that's what our actual pay scale will end up being. um I know hr.

B

And has been working on it and there's talks with with michael, I don't know. Do you.

I

Yeah so um they're finishing up some of the job duties to make sure we have all the training.

I

Captured which can change the the grade, and then they also are looking at the siegel.

I

Study report that pulled all the surrounding jurisdictions to make sure we're competitive.

E

All right: well, I'm willing to wait on those two until we see if we, what kind of plan.

E

Right we're going to go with; let's spell it out, that'll help a little bit.

E

We might be able to get a better idea of how much that would be reduced.

A

Ted, the um the additional revenue that came in the 5 million.

A

That's factored into this already yeah. We increased the projections by one million dollars.

B

A year we increased the projection by one million. That's where I was saying that this is potentially.

B

Volatile revenue tied to a small number of people, which is why we we gave no thought to raising five.

B

Million dollars- I don't know, one million- is the right number right, but um we should double that.

A

A

Understanding its volatility and there's risk associated with taking it too far, but are you.

A

Not playing it too safe, you don't believe.

B

You know we never know until we until we know, but when we talk about the revenues.

B

Always very conscious of two ideas- and you know, devin taylor can probably vouch for this.

B

One is we don't want to over project right? I don't want to put you in a position where you've built.

B

Expenditures on money that doesn't show up. On the other hand, though, I don't want to handcuff you by.

B

Taking money off the table that we can reasonably expect to be there right, yeah that becomes.

B

Us making decisions for you, because we we took it out of your hands right. Finding the.

B

Right place between those two ideas is is always difficult, and I can never say to you.

B

That's it. I've got the number right right. What I can say to you is, you know we.

B

Considered those two things and thought about the the the risks and the upside and downside, and this.

B

Is where we landed and what you can also say, is over the last five years here have been the trends.

A

You know that would give us, except that 5 million was part of no trend. No, I understand, but just the.

A

Trends of you presenting the numbers yep and and which has kept us where we need to be. You know.

A

Without handcuffing us, however, if it has been more on one side or the other.

A

That'll, allow us to say: okay, here's where we're willing to accept more risk in the decisions.

A

And the last the last couple years were so strange, though it's hard to even talk about you.

B

Know what's a trend- and you know um on this this idea of where to set the revenues I'll go back to.

B

My proposal for unassigned fund balance, if we have more money sitting on the sideline right.

B

It's easier to take greater risk on your revenue projections right.

D

This thing, this five million dollars increases from the.

D

Local income, tax revenue, correct yeah, all right.

D

Is the state telling us that this is ongoing.

D

Yes, okay, I'm not looking at five million a year, but the state's telling us this is ongoing for.

D

Five million- and you put it at one million: okay, no they're, not telling us an ongoing five million.

B

Well, they're saying it's an ongoing change and the state's thinking on this is the same as what I'm.

B

Saying to you and for them it's probably even a bigger concern, because jurisdictions like.

B

Montgomery and anne arundel and howard, when I talk about this volatility, it's gonna be even.

B

Greater volatility for them, because they have some players who one year might pay this much.

B

In taxes and next year, pay this this much right, but the problem is, is the same one.

B

And you know we have talked with the guy at the state who deals with these questions and.

B

He shares the the same concerns.

D

So I mean I'm not thinking it's going to be five million each year.

D

But I think it should be. I don't know half that. I know there's no way to know, but.

D

If it goes from five million you're only putting a million in.

D

I I don't, I don't okay. Well, on what basis are you saying that other than.

B

You'd like to have more money: okay, that's number one! That's pretty much! It right!.

D

But it's it's it's it's just such a drastic decree you're only putting 20 in no. But that's that's.

B

Only true, if you're, starting with an assumption that the 5 million is ongoing and but something's.

D

Going to be coming, but we don't know there's this is yeah, but there's something will be coming.

D

And you're, taking that 5 million and splitting it up over five years for a million dollars a.

D

Year is that right? No, I'm not splitting it up at all we're just raising the line, a million dollars.

B

So if if our projection had been 100 million 105 110, now it's 101 106 111.

B

We we're acknowledging that there's an ongoing change. It doesn't change our growth assumptions.

B

But it lifts the whole line and you know you're saying well: why million, why not two and a half.

B

Million, that's exactly what I said and I can't I can't say that that's wrong, but I don't think.

B

I don't think you are in a better position to say two and a half million is more right.

D

Than we are with our one million I understand uh so we can push this number up. You know it's.

B

If we thought we should, we would have already told you that yeah, when do you think you'll have.

E

A better understanding of what that number is going to be. We never will. I don't think.

B

Well, now that that's not true, because this you've got to have some id at some point.

B

See there will never be another distribution like this. It will just be built in right to all the.

C

Other money that we get specifically set aside. Oh here's, your extra yes exactly and we'll have all.

B

The same problems, we always have right, the money's coming to us before it's tied to a tax return.

B

And it's possible that someday we might get some information from the state that helps.

B

Us a little bit, but that's because the state knows what's on the tax returns, we never do. We.

B

Don't get that information, but the state doesn't is very careful about sharing information from.

B

From tax returns, so the best we can hope for is you know we get some sort of broad guidance that.

B

This seems to have affected things in a certain way, but even that is going to vary by county.

B

Like I said you know, the effect on montgomery is going to be very different. The effect on us, which.

B

Is going to be very different than the effect on somerset, so I think the easy answer to your.

B

Question is we're never really going to know you know. All we're going to see is uh the same.

B

Flow of money that we've we've always seen right, the well go ahead. Please how much is left in the.

E

Reserve for contingencies, for there you know 2020. one this this fiscal year, 2022 10.5.

G

The reserve for contingency- no, I I got you restricted fund balance ranking for 2021, is 10.4.

E

And you're, estimating that at the end of this fiscal year.

E

That we're currently in is going to be about 20.5. Yes,.

G

So the total of both of them. Yes, however, this is 4.3 negative right now I got that okay yeah, so.

E

That's where I'm going with my line of questioning, I'm sorry I'm away from the mic, but I can't see.

E

I don't feel alone so I'll talk loud, so.

E

We haven't yet either taken any of your recommendations and set aside the 20.

B

Probably 23., so with that logic, you could take 10 million off of that right now. Okay,.

E

So here's what I'm calling- and this is awful, but whatever I'm just throwing it all out there.

E

Why not take that unrestricted fund balance of 10.4 right and throw it into? However, you can.

E

On the bottom line of our current proposed budget and leave the 20.5 completely alone,.

E

And not touch it, that's, and that would meet your intent to do just that. We'll get you close yeah.

B

What are you saying to do with the 10 million? Well, I mean somehow adjust it so that it moves right.

A

They adjusted the adjusted bottom line or put it on put it all in 23. to do it yeah to do.

D

Exactly what you said: don't do the first thing we got here today: okay, no, but but it's gonna.

A

Cover your recommendation of the five percent, which is the 20 million 500 000, give or take.

A

Take that 10 million apply it on the bottom line, which we know. That's not the best solution for you.

A

But and let's see where that gives us, okay we'll do, if you tell me to do that, we will do that.

B

It doesn't fix the out years, but I understand I just I'm adamantly against it. All it does is, is.

B

Cover over looks go for three, then it doesn't work. Okay. I understand that I'm just I'm trying.

E

To look at all scenarios here this is probably wrong, but I want to see it I'm glad you did bring.

F

That up because at least the public can see that, because a lot of people in the public think this.

A

That's all one time, fellas, that's right! One time.

A

E

Now, in this scenario, we're good till 27- I know we're not. This is not the best way to do this, but.

E

You can certainly write a check for 567 ed and get us announced. You didn't want to divide it by five.

E

Ted I get it. I've worked with you now for almost eight years, and I understand it. I just always like.

E

To see every scenario, even if it's not the most or the best method here, but I would only do anything.

E

Like this at all, and I'm not really suggesting that we do it if we indeed said whatever the.

E

Projected unrestricted fund balance is at the end of this year. We don't touch it period.

E

And it just gets set aside, no, you can't yeah and you can't say that I mean you can.

A

Strongly recommend it, but you know they're, really two different things.

B

You know how the unassigned fund balance gives us flexibility in the future.

B

But it can't be there's no way for that to fix the ongoing problem. I know well, it kind of did.

A

Well, yeah, but again it's putting lipstick on a pig. I understand that so going back to.

A

Trying to figure out the trends of how it was described. You know your insight over so many years.

A

To give us a feel on how to use money or protect money, I mean: are you on income taxes again.

B

No, no, no I'm just on either getting ourselves ahead, the skis or behind you know.

A

It's all about risk: where should we have the ability to accept risk and are we too risk adverse.

A

Kind of like what you were saying earlier, where you want you, your desire to get us to even you.

A

Know you don't want to under view it and you want to overview it. So you know it's: where have you.

A

Been most that will allow us to understand what risk we should at least be willing to. You know.

A

Suggest um that's one question and the other is I do want to about revenue so yeah with income tax.

B

Budget has come in, I mean actuals have come in less than budget. The actuals have come in.

B

Budget income tax is almost impossible to get right. Yeah. We try and be in the right ballpark.

B

And I hope that more often than not more comes in than yeah. Of course we got, but you know if.

B

If you want me to say we can look back and demonstrate that we've always significantly.

B

Under budgeted, you know I it's not there, I can't do it. Okay, yeah we've had some we've had close.

B

Call years, sometimes you know where you start to worry, are we gonna? Are we gonna make it? Then we.

B

Have other years where you know it's: okay, we're we're in good shape this year, but the thing you.

B

Know putting aside just the revenue picture, we need to look at the expenditure side too.

B

We know that right now, we've already built a plan that doesn't work right. So if you take on.

B

Additional risk on your revenue projections you're just feeding into an existing problem if it turns.

B

Out to be wrong right now, the yeah and the first part I mean. I appreciate that. I mean it at least.

A

Gives me an understanding that? Okay, yes, you're, not either one side or the other, and we should.

A

Be aware that it can come up one way or the other, whether you undershoot or overshoot.

A

I remember one year, commissioner howard was basically arguing: ted you're being too careful.

B

And commissioner rothfeld was arguing, I was being wildly optimistic.

B

As I was sitting here, I I felt like I just had one arm be going over here and one going. The other.

B

Way- and you know I don't- I didn't think either of them were right, but there's always room to.

B

To argue this stuff, someone got out the sword and split you in hand. The um revenue.

A

You know we brought it up the different.

A

Pathways of revenue, the different approaches to bringing revenue in you know.

A

I don't know what you know that will, honestly what that looks like, but getting a better understanding.

A

As we move forward, I think is going to help. Why don't you just say what you want to say.

A

What I I don't know what's going to look, I don't know the type of taxes to use. I don't know exactly.

E

Where I'm going for a tax increase, no I'm asking I'm not sure. Okay, just say what you're saying I'm.

A

Saying what I'm saying is, I don't know what different taxes do I don't know so. I'm asking okay.

H

There's different type of taxes and how to use different revenue coming into the county. That's.

A

Exactly what I'm saying, there's no magic to this, it's fairly fairly simple! You know we have well.

B

Over 100 different revenues, but most of them just don't move the needle okay. You know property tax.

B

Is something like 60 of your operating budget? Income tax is about 30 percent of.

B

Your operating budget, now um your next biggest revenue, is recreation, which is.

B

20 million compared to income tax at what now 100 for me 100, that's an erratic source too. Isn't it.

F

Recordation fee: yes, so income tax, 180, third biggest revenue recordation at maybe 20 right now,.

B

But that's not going to stay there because remember right, we talked about. We have this.

B

In our projections, we're turning to 14 million dollars because they're, I don't believe, there's.

B

Any way the same level of activity can continue. Yes, so when you're talking about.

B

How does this all work? What you're really talking about is property tax.

B

And income tax, the rest of it, is rounding out the edges on property tax.

B

You have your tax rate, you have your assessments and you have new construction.

B

If we assume the tax rate is whatever it is for the rest of it.

B

You know the state does the reassessments that has some impact on us this year. It led to a greater.

B

Increase in revenue than we had planned because the assessment was higher than than we we planned.

B

Sometimes it works the the other way and then new growth- that's not captured in the.

B

Assessments because it's not part of the base yet so we we add there.

B

Right now we build in about 125 and assumed 125 million dollars worth of growth.

B

Which is about one and a quarter? Million dollars of of revenue.

B

uh So that helps, but the big money is in assessing the existing base. So what can change what we get.

B

You can get more more new growth. There are ways we can encourage that if we want, but going back.

B

To an earlier conversation, not everybody wants more new growth, so there are things to think.

B

About there, even if you feel like you can make it happen, we don't we don't participate in the.

B

Assessment, which is as I believe it ought to be. You know the state does that they don't care.

B

What our revenue picture looks like they're just saying: what do we think these things ought to be.

B

Valued at right and then the other piece is in your hands. What is what is the tax rate.

B

Income tax, you set the rate. Everything else is about how many people do. We have.

B

Living in carroll county who have a job and how much money do they make.

B

We've talked about this some. This has changed for us. Well, both of them. You know property tax.

B

Used to grow in a way it doesn't now, because we were adding to the base much more quickly.

B

Than we are, I mean the new growth remember when you talk about the difference between.

B

1200 new homes a year and 300 new homes a year. That's a that's! A big deal.

B

Income tax: we can do things to encroach encourage job growth, but there's little you can do to just.

B

Make it happen? uh We know our population is not growing in the same way that it that it once did.

B

We know we have an aging population, those things are impacting what we can expect out of a new set.

F

Of expenditures for us with an agent population: well I'm the only thing about the revenue, some.

F

Things are offset um yeah when we have people going in retirement, that's a hit to our revenue.

B

Because most people in retirement aren't going to pay the same kind of taxes that they did.

B

When they were working and again, you can set the rate, although you have a limitation on income tax.

B

State says you can't do more than 3.2 percent we're currently at 3.03 percent.

B

So you have some discretion, but not unlimited discretion. Now: property tax. You can actually raise.

B

To whatever number that that you said, there's no there's no legal restriction on on what you can do.

B

Yeah, so I don't know is that when we talk about um you know the safety type of tax.

A

All that kind of stuff can we designate that to go to specific areas, or does it just go into the.

A

Big pot of money- okay! Well, I believe if we had this tax approved by the legislature,.

B

It would legally be restricted to whatever purposes were in in that legislation.

B

We also had a discussion earlier. You can just choose to dedicate revenue to a source.

B

Like we talked about, you know, we've chosen to dedicate part of our local income tax to school.

B

Construction we've chosen to dedicate part of our property tax to ag prez. Those can be changed at.

B

Any time you can make those go away right now, so we do it here. The next set of commissioners.

A

Can change it to whatever they want they can. Although we have a long history, both of those.

B

Things go back to the 90s, so we've been doing it for a long time. Have we been doing it right.

B

uh On the local incest to school construction, I think we've been well served by that. Okay.

B

The big thing that that does is separate what to do with school construction from all the.

B

Other things we're we're doing so that they're not directly in competition with each other.

B

It also has given the school system a known revenue amount. You know when they're.

B

Looking at things, they know how much money is is available.

B

Now, of course, that doesn't lead to requests that necessarily fit within that money, but I mean.

B

It's no we're not arguing over how much money is going to be available for school construction.

B

So is it right, you know I'm not going to argue it's right or wrong, but I think it's worked.

F

Well, my biggest concern is inflation, how its impact than us and the county in general, because.

F

The inflationary index is up around seven half percent and even though we're given substantial.

F

Raises at five and a half percent the reality is citizens out. There are not making up enough.

F

In their loss, because of the inflation on average, they say each household income.

F

Is losing 5200 consumption annually just from the devaluing a dollar of inflation, so the.

F

Concept of us putting these additional tax on our citizens isn't going to go over. It's all hurt them.

F

Even more they're in a hellacious pinch now from inflation, just like we are a fair budget, they're.

F

Facing the same thing, and as I was mentioning, er like the school can come the awesome push on us.

F

Well, you know the proverbial, you know what runs downhill. That's what caused us to push down on the.

F

Citizens in the end- and I don't think they want that they don't want us to cut this budget somehow.

F

They're not going to want us to raise their taxes. Well, nobody has suggested raising taxes. Anybody.

A

Has suggested raising taxes you're asking about additional revenue, I'm asking about understanding.

A

How revenue comes in? Nobody here has talked about raising taxes all right, good, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.

A

But I don't express the concern that not only my you're you're, not the only consumer, your.

C

Citizens have the exact same concern, I'm saying speaking in general terms, air citizens have a.

F

Very legitimate concern here about their the value of their existing income. Being able to sustain the.

F

Needs that they have to support their families, you know, and when you you said somewhere there.

B

People don't want taxes they're going to want us to cut the budget, and people will argue.

B

To cut the budget, but rarely do they argue to actually cut services, and you want to talk to.

B

Community groups, an idea I talk about a lot- is what I call the fundamental dilemma of elected.

B

Officials uh there's a disconnect between what people are willing to pay and what they want.

F

Don't cut my [ __ ] cut their butt and that's that's yeah. Okay,.

C

We have an open session. Where did we leave it? Now? I don't know.

D

And all the stuff in yellow has not been voted. I I know right. I know you're going to capture.

A

All the notes then, and we have open session on thursday morning at zero nine, there will.

A

Be no closed session uh at zero, eight and I'll make sure that they get that upstairs as well.

D

Open session at one o'clock on thursday, which is a work session, will be down here, so the open session.

A

Is upstairs and the morning and down here in the afternoon, no need for donuts.

F

Is there anything else for the good of the group? I don't know why you said that.

E

No, I think, plus scrapple I mean I don't. I look forward to seeing what comes out of.

A

These discussions today the esac meeting wednesday night and I think we'll have a little bit more to.

E

Work with on thursday afternoon, as a result of that yeah yeah and I would suggest to.

E

All of us to take a look at those plans again.

E

In an attempt to try to figure out which one you feel is this the better way to go.

E

And perhaps there's a way in which to do plan f, which hasn't been brought up yet.

E

Which is a hybrid method of two of the others right uh which I think may reach a happy medium.

E

And I you you ran on the discussion last night a little bit. You heard some of the things I was.

E

Saying- and you heard some of the things that were being said back to me- I heard a lot of things.

H

Dennis was with me, saturday, united race, and we went through.

H

Through that same uh proposal out, I want to hear from you and boy I did yeah, I mean and yeah, but.

H

People were realistic, I think really, uh when you look at it. Yes, they want it all right now, but.

H

Explain to them why? Well, let's give it a couple of years to get make it happen. Yeah, that's sort.

E

Of the way, I'm leaning towards trying to find a hybrid method between two of the ones that we have.

E

I just but we'll see what they I agree with see what they say uh wednesday evening dick and.

E

Take some good notes and bring it back and we'll we'll go from there. You said this is an advisory.

H

Council well right, ultimately, they know it's our responsibility, but I think we they just. We need.

E

To respect the fact that they need to be in on some of this, but they also need to respect the.

E

Fact that we can't do all of this out of the gate, I think the respect needs to go both ways here.

E

But I will say it's increasingly challenging when they see all kinds of money being thrown.

E

In existing departments and we're responsible for a lot of things, I know so I just need to keep that.

E

We need to keep that in mind too. I mean we're, you know we did. We did a lot today and didn't.

E

End up in the right place: no, we started well. What we did was we put it out on paper. Well right, I.

E

Mean that that's that's key! So now it's in front of us yeah to now have the conversations yeah so.

A

Okay, ladies, I appreciate all the work ted as well. I need a motion to adjourn so moved.

D

Second, I got motions got a second all in favor.

A