Carroll County, MD Board of County Commissioners Open Sessions, 9 Feb 2023

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From YouTube: Board of County Commissioners Open Session February 9 , 2023

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Okay good morning, commissioner, at rothstein district, five february 9th uh soon to be.

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Valentine's day, just a reminder to myself in preparation for valentine's day as we always.

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Do prior, let's uh stand for the pledge of allegiance and a moment of silence.

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Okay, um I'll kick it off this morning. First uh we're going a moment of silence. um I was thinking.

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Of a lot of folks that are still in harm's way, whether it's man-made or environment, there's.

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Thousands and thousands that have perished from the earthquakes in turkey and syria. So, let's.

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Wish strength and courage to those that are still there and mourning uh and may.

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All those that perish be a blessing, um their memories be a blessing.

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You know ukraine's ukraine I'll, tell you every time. I I do a pledge to the flag.

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It reminds me of just how good we are and how fortunate and how blessed so absolutely.

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um A couple's real, quick things I uh attended the um groundbreaking uh or kick off to the uh biz.

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Challenge and the biz challenge uh is a carroll county shark tank approach for young entrepreneurs.

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um Young not necessarily being in age but young being in their their startup, and the finale is in.

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August last year's winner received twenty five thousand dollars in cash and prizes and it's a.

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Botanical her name's hannah she's on main street in um in sykesville um we've been very successful.

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In doing this, I think this is the 13th year in doing this, and uh it's um run by the chamber of.

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Commerce, I'm always motivated to attend and uh see who participates and just the the cool ideas.

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They're coming out of somebody's head from concept to actual development and uh our partnership with.

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The community college and with the sbdc part of a special excuse me small business administration,.

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um You know is, and and the miller center over to college um it's just been wonderful, so it's.

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Just a great opportunity to uh to attend and participate and see what's happening um and.

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Let me leave it at that for now so uh when we move from my right and go to the left, so, commissioner,.

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Karen, thank you just I'll be brief. So, tuesday evening I had my first town hall meeting at the.

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Mount airy senior center and I want to personally thank the staff there for their support, angie and.

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Ann and dave, I I'm extremely grateful and the host of other volunteers that also make that.

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Center run well and serve that really that truly tri-county area, because we're right there on the.

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Border, I also want to thank some of the. uh We had some county staff there and we had a lot.

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Of elected officials, the mayor of mount airy, some of the town council, members, chief robinson and.

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Sheriff jim deweese actually spoke to the crowd for a good 20 minutes there. He is uh about the.

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Status of policing in the area- and I also want to thank the mount airy fire mount airy police.

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Chief chief reits for for being there as well, and of course I want to thank all the district.

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4 residents that attended we, we had quite a crowd. It was practically overflow, which is a good thing.

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Of course, and the topics and comments you might expect were things of dealing with the maryland.

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Blueprint which is going to be very topical growth and development within the county everywhere and.

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How it affects everybody, particularly some of the school redistricting questions that are.

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Out there, just questions still being looked at very closely and and different solutions as well.

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Solar, that was one uh and um so what's going on, with particular properties within district four.

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And in particular within the town itself, which is a municipality but uh great questions, great.

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Concerns one of the things that I made sure I did during that meeting was make sure that people know.

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How to get a hold of their elected officials, so we went through emails. We went through websites.

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And an ongoing effort to make sure that people know how to reach out to us. And let us know how.

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They feel it's important. It's important that they're paying attention to their local elected.

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Officials they're paying attention to those elections themselves because they matter so much.

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So my uh my brief comment to everybody that attended is just thank you very much uh continue.

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To pay attention and keep those emails coming, we appreciate it. Thank you, cool commissioner kyler.

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I've uh met with uh two different groups of cub scouts now and I want to encourage any groups, but.

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Any any scouting groups that want to meet one. I met at their meeting. One came here and I'm open.

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To either way it just has to fit in a schedule. um I've met and heard from solar people. Both sides.

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Of the fence and I'm more willing to talk to any of those commissioner rostein and I went to.

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Mako yesterday in annapolis, I'm on the education committee you're on tax, yes and committee and then.

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We have a regular meeting and I want to thank our delegation um every week. So far we've been able to.

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Meet with one or two of them and have discussions that are very meaningful and they very much care.

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About what the people in carroll county think about what's going on in annapolis, so again.

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If uh reach out to them reach out to one of us and we'll share the word with them, um they they.

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Really do have our backs down in annapolis and they have a tough job with what they do.

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I'm hoping to go to a veterans celebration committee meeting today. It depends on how how.

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Our meetings turn out and what what there's time and then people, I think, know that I'm.

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Somewhat interested in wrestling uh tonight, man, val wrestles, in the uh I guess, it's considered.

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The quarterfinals they've changed the format for dual meet states, but they're wrestling at.

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Hammond tonight, and and have a good possibility of winning it's uh you never know, that's why they do.

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The matches but- uh and I know south carol's doing well- I know some of the other county.

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High schools involved and then there'll be into individual, and I've also seen uh a drama and a.

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uh Choral concert in a band concert and it's just uh the schools, the extracurriculars do so much and.

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I encourage everybody with extracurriculars if you really want to go to an elite college.

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And you have a 4.0 and great sats: they've got to do the tie breakers with something and it might be.

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That you were an aqualite in church, you don't you don't know, what's going to beat it, but please do.

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The extra items and and it'll get you someplace, and it was interesting with the uh cub scouts. I.

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Try to ask them, obviously they ask me questions. I try to ask them some on why they got in it and.

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What they want to get out of it, and I'm amazed with the number of relatively young cub scouts.

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That their goal is to be an eagle scout, which that's awesome and I hope most of them make it.

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And that about covers me for tonight that screen great advice also with the schools.

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um Also uh talking about the legislation, district five legislative night is.

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February 20th down in um annapolis, so all that is those that want to attend.

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Mr fowler, if you can provide details when you come on up, if you have them.

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um But it is open to our community to attend uh the district five night and also uh district 42.

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Alpha center, west and um delegate stanko will also be there for that as well. So just remember.

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And they'd like rsvps, if possible, but if you don't uh they're not going to throw you out right.

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Commissioner vigliotti did you want to mention something about the public hearing first or we.

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Do that book here on the 23rd? No all right I'll do that later: okay, okay! I just want to make sure.

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uh So I'll be very brief. This morning this week I had the opportunity to take a tour of the arc.

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Of carroll county graciously hosted by don rowan. I hope I'm pronouncing her last name.

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Correctly jen most um and it it was the first time that I was able to see firsthand uh you.

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Know what goes on there and the amazing kind of work that uh is being done for those who.

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Are uh you know those who have learning disabilities or are disabled in some way.

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And I think it is a it's a unique and it is a wonderful thing that we have in our county.

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And the other thing is that last night I had the opportunity to attend the board of.

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Education meeting- and uh you know certainly heard firsthand to know in certain terms the challenges.

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That blueprints is uh compelling the board of education to face, and by extent us as well.

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um And uh you know it it: uh these are going to be very difficult and challenging budgetary times.

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Ahead- um and I think it's important that you know we keep that- uh you know abreast of the.

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Public that these are incredibly difficult choices that we're going to be having to to make in the.

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Coming months, and that's it for me for today, okay, thank you, uh mr fowler, why don't you come on up.

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Morning morning, commissioners morning, first thing: no, I don't have the details on district.

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Five now you haven't seen anything yet. Space is really challenged down there. So I'll check with.

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Them and see where it's going to be, and then okay, if you can, I know I know they advertise.

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It I just don't, have the details, but if we can get with meg or someone absolutely okay, thanks.

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So uh you can change up again a little bit in your package. What I gave you.

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And I probably should have been doing this all along, but I will from now on.

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Is give you the list of bills that mako is discussing the wednesday.

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Before this meeting and you'll see the positions that mako is taking on those.

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What are we on 19 18 pages on this, so we can be a long time talking about each one, so I thought I'd.

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Just present them to you and if you go through here and you see ones of particular answers, we.

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Can certainly discuss them, but I thought today I'd concentrate on one bill that I.

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Think is probably unique and very important. I don't think I haven't seen a bill in some time.

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That has such a, I think, a wide-ranging cultural and social impact as the cannabis reform bill.

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So it's it's 88 pages covers a lot of ground. The sponsors have been talking about this and.

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And in their remarks, it's not intended to be a revenue generator. Its intent is really to.

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To eliminate or significantly reduce the illegal market and provide some type of restitution to.

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Communities that have been adversely impacted by cannabis enforcement really the the war on.

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Drugs, if you will and to reduce incarceration, so you might remember last last session uh bill.

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Was passed that changed the the legal structure decriminalized? It was a decriminalization bill, so.

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This sort of sets forth the the program as it goes forward. They are renaming the alcohol and tobacco.

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Commission, with the addition of cannabis and within that commission is a newly created office.

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Of social equity so you're going to see that equity piece throughout the the bill and and it.

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Really infuses its intent. There are two licensing regimes within this: the standard license and the.

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Micro license and them, and then those you've got licenses for growers, processors and retailers.

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I thought it focused on the retailers because I think that's the the part that will. I think people.

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Will see so in the standard licensing for retail? They are essentially storefronts and they are.

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300 licenses will be granted statewide. The micro licenses are a lesser amount of licenses, statewide.

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But the interestingly, they are for delivery services, so weed on wheels. If you will.

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Product testing and an emphasis on the the I say, health, the. I guess, the quality of the.

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Product make sure that it's not harmful beyond what what the obvious things would be. You do.

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Have some power within this as local governments, you can establish reasonable zoning requirements.

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But you can establish zoning or other requirements that would unduly burden the business.

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You may determine whatever the revenue which we'll discuss in a moment that.

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You receive you can use that at your discretion. You may not impose attacks.

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On your own, you can't prohibit deliveries that come into your county from other jurisdictions.

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You can you can regulate or up to prohibit consumption in the on-site.

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Facilities in your county, if you do permit that there are guidelines and restrictions around that.

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They're advertising and marketing restrictions. Obviously 21 and above is the only legal aspect.

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Of this, so I think I I think of how the websites that you go to regarding alcohol, then all you have.

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To do is simply attest that you're over 21., I suspect, it'll, be the same kind of thing, which.

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I don't think is very effective. Frankly, one of the big concerns has always been the hr aspect.

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Of this, how how do you treat employees with this? It's not like alcohol, whether scientific.

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And and verifiable levels of intoxication and and through you know, blood level and.

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That sort of thing this is much a much different substance and stays in the blood for 30 days, but.

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Does intoxic? How long does intoxication occur that so those questions are all very difficult.

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To to measure, but you do have some ability to affect how employees perform in the workplace.

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So you can discipline an employee or a contractor for obviously ingesting at the workplace.

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Or working while impaired, that's as far as the legislation goes impaired, so al is impaired to.

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Find it's not in the bill exactly I'll in the bill, you can terminate an employee, and this is.

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Taken directly from the bill engaging in any task while under the influence of cannabis, when doing.

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So would constitute negligence or professional malpractice again, who defines that you can refuse.

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To hire which is this, is I can't square this? You can refuse to hire someone if a positive drug test.

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Is is done according to established policies, but you can't necessarily terminate someone for that.

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And I think questions about the cdl- it's not explicit in there, but you can't use federal law.

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Which that it's a crime, so you can't use federal law against an against an employee. So you can't.

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Say that if there and I don't know this, but if there is federal, if there are federal regulations,.

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Around a cdl license and it and it prescribes that you can't be under the influence or or can't use.

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It or it can't be present in a drug test. You can't use that law in determining how you you treat.

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So I don't know quite how that's all squares, but that's that's how the bill is written.

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The revenue piece- that's always been a big question. Mark too uh again the sponsors say.

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They this they don't want this to be a revenue generator and they got to set the revenue so that.

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This the product is not priced to actually encourage the legal market. Now some economists.

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Would say whatever price you set is the ceiling and the illegal market will move below that price.

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That's that's for another discussion, so the state will impose attacks. It starts.

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At six percent and increases each year and tops out at 10 percent of fiscal year, 28.

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Of that, 30 percent goes to something called the community reinvestment and repair fund. So.

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That that goes to the the restitution piece we're talking about. There is a local tax, it's minuscule.

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At this point, it's one and a half percent of the revenue that is collected in your jurisdiction.

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It's going to be very small, one of the one of the things mako will be seeking in this is an increase.

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To local revenue you're the one that's going to be dealing with the impacts in in your jurisdiction.

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There are also contributions to the blueprint begins in fiscal year, 23 at 9.2 percent and.

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Tops out at 12.1 in fiscal year and beyond 23. this year, this current fiscal year, yes,.

F

No okay! Okay! Thanks! Sorry! Yes, yes, uh I'm going to double check that, but I'm pretty.

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Sure that's correct yeah. Is that so it doesn't, it doesn't align with uh right with the other yeah.

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um This is listed as emergency legislation for the protection of health and welfare of the.

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Citizens of the state, so it will be enacted upon a vote of three-fifths of each chamber.

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And that is essentially if, if all the democrats remain in their veto, approved majority, which they.

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Are above right now, if they keep enough to remain in that veto, proof majority, it will move through.

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Leadership is, as this is going to pass. Let's just leave it at that. This will pass in some form. It'll.

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Be debated very, very vigorously, I'm sure in the in the coming weeks, but it will pass so when do we.

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Expect it to come up for a vote. uh Yeah no hearing dates. Excuse me. No, I think the house hearing date.

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Is scheduled pretty soon 17th seems to stick out in my mind, but I'll I'll follow up on that.

A

Yeah, okay, so any questions on that particular subject. Just I guess, as a general question.

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You'd mentioned that that certain of these things were, you know who defines what so for.

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Example, if somebody is working for this agency for the for the the county and they're under.

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The influence and uh do we exercise a prerogative to strictly define all of these things ourselves.

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Before the stake, obviously, this is going to be an ongoing process with the state where.

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It's it's, you know, there's nothing. The state passes that they don't ultimately continue to.

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Rework and refine and redo over time. So while we have the opportunity, do we have the the.

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Authority to be able to say this is how we are going to define it for the time that we have it.

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I think the next step will which follows all legislation is the development of regulations.

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So regulations are developed and then put out for public comment. So that'll be the point at which.

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You'll know what the regulations say about how it interprets what's in the legislation.

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So within the year I suppose you'll see that because in my mind I mean dealing with this.

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In any capacity, whether it's the definitions or whether it's when it comes to zoning or whatever.

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The case is, I think, we need to be pretty proactive with this and we need to be as speedy as possible.

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When attempting to figure out how we're going to deal with this before I'd rather deal with.

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A I'd rather be, you know, proactive about this and reactive and dealing with something after the fact.

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And I know that you have nothing to do. I'm just saying for the for discussion here with us that.

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That you know I would, I would want to move on this as soon as humanly possible for us to look.

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Into whatever it is that we're able to do to curtail this, so I think the challenge, though, is.

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Regardless of our opinion, um you know uh it's only going to carry so much weight.

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And you know what we're allowed and not allowed to do. um You know like there's, definitely a sentiment.

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Of I would expect carroll county opinion, you know or not sentiment, but a a majority of the opinion.

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That leans one way as opposed to another, uh but this is going to happen and once it does happen.

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um We're gonna have to work through the laws that are going to be put in place, and I don't think.

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We're going to have the ability to um to make many adjustments, I don't think, um but it's going to be.

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Interesting uh right, but there's still a lot of unknowns and that's that's unfortunate. That.

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Whole, how do you know when somebody is under the influence when you can't test them? You know I mean.

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Maybe a sobriety test of some sort, but you know that's going to be a very difficult issue. I mean.

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It you know, a new motto of the state ought to be, if you don't like it too bad, because that's what.

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This bill is all about. I mean what's interesting when you look at this particular bill, it states.

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That have already gone down this road, particularly california. They are having to take a step back.

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Because they made all these same mistakes, I mean it's all over. You know it was in the wall.

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Street journal this week, right in particular, cannot prohibit delivery deliveries from other.

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Jurisdictions that is incredibly problematic. That is such a glaring uh problem. With this I mean I.

B

Have problems with the whole thing basically, but uh you know again, I appreciate the briefing on it.

B

But as the couple commissioners already mentioned, how how can we be proactive, I mean we need to be.

B

But unfortunately, it's all about being reactive at this point yeah it's not it's not untypical for.

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Legislation to be vague and for it to be tightened up in regulation. Obviously you can't have 24.

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Different interpretations and actually municipalities come in here because they are.

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Considered local government, so what is it? 150, plus municipalities, plus the 24 jurisdictions, can't be.

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Interpreting this individually right. So if we look at carroll county internal demon, you're looking at.

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Nine with the county and the municipalities, it would be great to be able to tell our own story.

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um The question really comes to will we have the opportunity to do that uh in a legal manner or not.

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um You know through any ordinances or decisions we make from here. I don't think that's going to.

A

Be possible sounds like it sounds like you'll have control over to some extent over zoning as.

F

You did with the medical cannabis, okay, but only to some extent they were some some I'm worried.

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About ingestion more than zoning again they got you there too, because as long as you there's.

B

Not an on you know, unduly burden yeah. You can't can't undo whatever. That means exactly right. So.

B

Anyway, I'll stop, I just I mean they were pretty heavy, I'm sorry, restrictions on what restrictions.

F

The counties could make and towns could make on the zoning for medical cannabis as well.

A

Yeah and that that part I I got, and I understand the 300 statewide, the licensing. You know.

A

I'm more concerned about the ingestion, I'm more concerned about the impact it's going to have.

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On our community- and you know when our children are being raised and seeing their families and.

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Parents ingesting this and saying, oh, that this is the right thing to do where this is okay,.

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um And then get behind a wheel of a car and drive without having the ability to be tested.

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Whether it under influence that that bothers me, I mean that's, you know uh right and it, and it is.

D

A it is a sociocultural thing, you know and we're we're in a situation where we're trying to find.

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Ways to to move beyond the entire drug issue- and here we are, you know as a state saying: okay well,.

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Let's, let's make it open and so let's open up even more so it's you know, it is a uh it's kind of like.

D

What you said about trying to square a circle even within you know the components of this and looking.

D

At the issue as a whole, it's it's. You know you're talking in two different points. You know you're.

D

You're, making two different sets of policies and and again, how do you you know to use your.

D

Phrase square: the circle uh there isn't there is a it does address, driving and bill. I didn't.

E

I didn't put in the briefing but, uh and the way it's worded is there's nothing in the bill that.

E

That suggests that you can get in a car and drive under the influence.

E

Yeah, that's not the exact boarding, but essentially it addresses your you can't.

E

Drive under the influence can't operate a motor vehicle in the influence.

E

Yeah- and I think unfortunately, there they're so naive about things and- and that was a good point.

C

um I don't see where any states have really learned from the mistakes of the states that.

C

Already did it and that's so unfortunate and the other thing I'd like to comment on.

C

It'll curb the black market. Maybe um I know so many people using medical marijuana.

C

And I'll ask what the process is like and they go. I gave up on the process.

C

I can get it more quickly, cheaper and better quality by just buying it. The way I always did.

C

And uh they're going to fight that battle a little bit too and then again my concern.

C

um Particularly gummies and stuff uh they're available to kids and.

C

And uh a pinhead of uh fentanyl will kill them and, and it's going to be hard for employers.

C

I don't know what we've done uh the last place. I worked, we had a division in colorado and we kept.

C

That, if you didn't pass the drug test, you couldn't be hard, even though it's legal to use.

C

This we didn't hire people now sooner or later, you've got to change that and unfortunately, on.

C

Driving you can't test so it's nice to say you can't do it, but right it's going to be hard to.

C

Prove that you did but it's uh and like you said this, we need to react to this because it's going.

C

To happen- and you know, we've got to uh develop a recipe that'll be suitable for our community.

A

um Whether, like you said socio-cultural, we may not have the ability to you know, put it in ordinance.

A

You know above and beyond, but um you know we can continue to highlight the importance of.

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uh Recognizing its impact, um you know in the schools- and uh you know and everywhere else.

A

I don't want to say we're holier than thou when this comes, but you know uh we do know that it does.

A

Have impact- and I I do wish there would be lessons learned from the communities or the states that.

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Have put this in place and I think there's plenty of lessons learned, I don't know them. I haven't.

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Really done that research, but I would expect there are, and we could probably take all of them and.

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Create a better model than what's being shove down our throats by three-fifths of a majority.

A

um And that's my two cents, commissioner garen mentioned california, the one the takeaway I from.

E

California, was they priced it to a point where the illegal market just uses that as a ceiling, and it.

E

Flourishes and there's a bill in that won't allow law enforcement to take any steps if they smell.

E

Cannabis coming from a car, yet you're, not it's not legal, to drive under the influence. There are.

E

So many right disparities in here yeah that that really have to get worked out and and really every.

E

Institution across the state has to be looking at deaths and seeing what effect it has on them. It's.

E

Not just you know, elected officials and businesses yeah the the secondary churchy effects of this.

A

Whether it's with the schools or it's with the the you know the police and sheriff's department and.

A

The work that they're going to have to do um just yeah, I it's a lot and unfortunately, that's the.

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Only word I can come up with, uh but I I do wish that uh they would take lessons learned from a.

A

Lot of other communities like california or others and say yeah: let's not do it this way or let's put.

A

The the bookends on this, but well the locomotive, is heading down the tracks. Yeah it's hard to stop.

A

Right so so, we'll we'll continue to keep you updated on how this progresses appreciate that.

E

um Yeah just a couple of other things, so the northeast waste disposal authority.

E

Bill was heard yesterday in the house. It was interesting. It seemed like.

E

Well, first of all, I thought that the sponsor was a little coy. He he emphasized the sunset review.

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Aspect of the bill which which it is and which is appropriate. Looking at these quasi governmental.

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Agencies periodically to make sure they're operating true to their mission is, is perfectly.

E

Appropriate he did not mention that the bill also obligates dls, to craft legislation, to merge the.

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Authority into mes, so that was sort of left out of the discussion. Anne arundel county opposed it in.

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Written testimony harford was there and opposed it in person mako put in their their amendments.

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We submitted hours so there is no senate cross file bill, which is interesting because brian.

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Feldman is the chair of the committee and he was on the commission, so he has not filed across file.

E

Bill can't read the tea leaves on that, but it doesn't sound like maybe he's as big a.

E

Cheerleader seemed like the the proponents of the bill were mostly anti-incinerator. People.

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And that's part of what the authority is tasked to do is waste to energy and incinerators. Now.

E

They don't do that anymore. As we've talked about that's not going to happen in the future, so you.

E

Could simply write that out of the statute, if you wanted so anyway, we'll we'll see how that goes.

A

um Were they just trying to make a statement, I mean? Well, they the incinerator, particularly.

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Montgomery county there's, that's been a hotbed for quite a while and and baltimore city as well.

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For that matter, but but baltimore city has some issues with waste disposal and not everybody in.

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In the city, as opposed to that incinerator, so it was hard to gauge how the committee felt about.

E

That so I'll be watching the subcommittee. That's where a lot of the real nitty-gritty.

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Substance will be discussed so we'll see and then and then, if it does get out of committee.

E

Assuming it's in its same posture, there'll, be an opportunity in the senate to discuss it further.

E

Also, the public facilities bond bill- that's always important, but it's also sort of a.

E

A rogue deal so that was yesterday. No no questions came up. The request to raise a pure limit is with.

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The delegation they've submitted it to drafting there are some questions that I've gotten already.

E

About how is this really going to work so I'm going to meet with a procurement officer and.

E

Go through some of that, so I'll be able to answer their questions very thoroughly and.

E

Again I'll just point to the bill list that you have there's some there's some important bills.

E

In here, we've discussed some of them previously here you'll see the positions and again, if you.

E

Have any if you need any more details or have any questions I can fill you in on that see.

A

um From yesterday there was a lot of discussion in the subcommittee regarding the um uh solar attacks.

A

um Incentives and uh task force a task force to establish um mako's, taking no position on this.

A

And you- and I talked about this- uh we like the idea of the task force, um what we're learning.

A

And continuing to learn with mako maryland social counties to be consistent when they go to.

A

um To the committees you know uh in the capital- and this is one of those consistencies- we like.

A

The task force overall, but keeping it no position, it doesn't mean. You know that.

A

It it's a good thing and it's going to be a very inclusive task force uh from folks from.

A

Mako from mml from um you know all different walks of the aisle, uh and I think it may.

A

Dovetail really well with the potential moratorium that is on the table.

A

um So, let's just keep our eyes on that yeah! That's senate bill, 469 task force to study.

E

Solar tax incentives so right now there there's a wide range of tax incentives to solar, they're kind.

E

Of all over the place, senator alfred is, is sort of. She has a lot of cache on environmental issues and.

E

You'll see that it uh it it talks about rooftop. Now it only affects commercial generation right.

E

So but it's it's again, it's it's rooftops, because she also doesn't like to see these directed toward.

E

Productive agricultural land so to try to get a cohesive policy tax policy directed at these.

E

Is really the intent and, as you say, mako will typically only weigh in on a task force if it.

E

Doesn't have the proper representation right and this one does appear too, so I think it was last.

A

Year, where we focused, maybe a couple years ago to get the rural counties engaged in this task force.

A

You know and other task force because sometimes we're left out. You know anything west of 29 or.

A

East of the bwi parkway, you know it seems like uh we're forgotten so and on this issue, that's really.

E

Where the impact is felt right, so we want to have a say so: okay, back to the uh procurement limit, I'd.

C

Be curious, I'm sure one of the questions you've gotten already is going from twenty five thousand.

C

To fifty thousand, what percentage does that limit and, from my perspective, I think we'd love to know.

C

What answer you get to that? If it's, if it cuts 10 percent, maybe it's not worth wasting everybody's.

C

Time if it cuts half then maybe it is but and I'm sure that's one of the things you're going to look.

C

Into right, yes, yeah, one of the questions they had the in the previous iteration of the bill was all.

E

Right so how many projects now fall into that category and then how many, let's say over the.

E

Last year would have fallen into this new category right and so, and the other questions are around.

E

Does the process change? Is it still, you know, are they are they budgeted items of these in the.

E

Budget those kinds of questions so yeah I'll be taking that and I'll pass back to you. What I get.

C

Thank you and thanks for getting us around annapolis someday, I won't get.

C

Lost so uh any other uh questions or comments on bills that have been presented to us today,.

A

Okay- and I know you're always available, so appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you mike. Let's.

A

This ursler and team come up and talk about the payment alone from the carol from the.

A

County commissioners of carroll county regarding the exploration commons, I would expect morning.

G

So, as you all know, we opened exploration commons a little over a year ago and we were able to open it.

G

Under some provisional licensing and all, but the project was not actually finished, we were working.

G

With county buildings uh to make sure all the the contractor pieces were done and there were.

G

A few things that that weren't finished uh those items were finished about three to four weeks ago.

G

So the project is now actually completed. Finally,.

G

um And the county was generous enough to loan the library sort of a construction loan for us, while.

G

We were working on the project, so we were able to stay within um what we thought was going to be a.

G

Reasonable timeline was supposed to be eight months and turned out to be somewhere in the.

G

Neighborhood of two years, the lessons learned by building during covid. So at this point now.

G

That the last invoices have been paid we'd like to reconcile the the loan piece of it with the county.

G

um And there's a couple different aspects to this: there is a mou. That's on the books from I not.

G

Quite sure, when ted might have that information that says that the library's fund balance can't.

G

Be spent without the permission of both the commissioners and the library board, so we're.

G

Here before you today to first of all request permission to actually spend the fund balance.

G

We have, and secondly, we'd like to request that the county waive the interests that the loan has.

G

Accrued to date, with the understanding that that the delays were not the library's fault.

G

That they were extenuating circumstances due to covid due to issues with the contractor due.

G

To issues with supply chain and and so forth, we just felt like that that wasn't asked we'd like.

G

To make it feels rather punitive to pay interest on something we simply weren't allowed to pay off.

G

Not through any fault of our own, so that's sort of our two asks for this. For this morning,.

G

um And be more than happy to answer any specific questions that you have as well.

A

Okay, um any questions, I guess a couple or guys two broad questions and and if I'm.

D

Not quite understanding this correctly, please, you know feel free to correct me.

D

um So you're saying that you know permission hadn't been granted to pay the loan back.

D

Previously am I there were some outstanding issues that the contractor needed to make right and until.

G

They made them right, we were holding the final invoice, the county buildings. I want to make sure.

G

I get the right department had asked that we not pay that last invoice until those items.

G

Were checked off gotcha um and it was a small invoice. I think it wound up being about 26 or 27.

G

000, it was just the last bit of change orders and that sort of thing, but it was something to keep.

G

The contractor invested in the project and and get those things finished and thank you and about how.

D

Much interest has been accrued at this point. Do you know thirty thousand six? Eighteen sixty three.

H

So thirty thousand six eighteen sixty three sixty three! Thank you and I'm imagining that if you were.

D

If you had to pay this, where does the money come from to pay that that interest? We we raised money.

G

For the project, the money to pay off this part of the loan, however, has been operating money.

G

That we've basically squirreled aside to to pay it off. So it's coming out of our our fund balance and.

D

That's money that you might be able to otherwise use elsewhere. Oh absolutely, okay, yeah, that my.

D

Questions I'm good. Thank you, squirreled away. We squirreled it away. Yes, we saved our pennies.

A

How much is in the fund balance right now, uh 624 thousand dollars.

A

And you want authorization to use the fund balance, we need authorization to.

G

Use the fund balance yes to do what to pay off the loan to the county.

G

So, basically we're paying you back with your own money, but so you want us, you want to pay off 500.

C

000, not 530 000. great we'd really like to not pay off anything. But yes, yes, yes, if we're going.

G

To be really honest about it, yes, we really would like to not pay that interest if we don't have to.

A

I don't know it.

A

Something just doesn't seem to fit in my mind, especially when you just said it's our money, we're.

A

Paying back our own money? Well, the the money that we have in the fund balance is money that accrues.

G

Year over year, when we don't spend all of the budgeted money that we receive from the county in.

G

The state and the fund that we, you know the funds that we raise internally running meeting rooms.

G

Copiers fundraising and that sort of thing it's a small amount every year, most of what we don't.

G

Use, why is it going back into the budget for something else the following year, but.

G

There's always a little bit that we put aside as a rainy day fund and it's very small, like.

A

Is that rainy day fund I mean, are we telling? Is this all county money and is the 30.

A

000 interest, I would say money, the predominance of it is yeah we're looking at about 90 of it.

G

Being county money that that we've just not spent year over year and we started saving it.

G

When we did this project for this project, knowing that fundraising could be difficult, uh we hadn't.

G

Anticipated trying to do it during a pandemic that was fun, um but nonetheless, the cash is in hand to.

G

Pay it to pay it off, but yes, most of it is money that we just have year-over-year been saving ted.

A

Did you want to share yeah on this idea that you know it's count county money coming back.

I

The library has basically two sources of revenue for for their operating budget, the county and the.

I

State, we are almost all of it, and the portion that comes from the state has historically been used.

I

For purchasing materials so books and dvds and cds and things like that, so in a practical way.

I

The accumulation of fund balance is county funding that didn't get spent. So when andrea said we'll be.

I

Paying you back with your money, it's not our money at this point, but it's money that came from you.

A

So with that said, why would we allow for them to waive the interest.

A

At this time, well, that's a different question. Okay,.

C

um Can I, and and back in that question, were there costs for the county and the taxpayers in doing.

C

This loan and holding this loan, and is there a reason if it's justifiable to say well, we don't.

C

Need the 30, but maybe we need half of it or you know what were our costs? What and not to piggyback.

C

What well it had been an opportunity cost money we would have had that we could have invested.

I

uh I I don't have any number to tell you, though, and it can go back to the library.

A

In budget deliberation for fy24 right say that again, if we don't waive interest, you know it comes.

A

Back to our our budget or our you know money, you would be paid to your operating budget and we can.

A

Then have those conversations with the library or within on how to use that money for fy24, correct.

A

I don't mean to be looking through you, andre, I'm. No, that's, okay! I I get it.

I

Okay for first two, two different things here, I think you need to think about differently. One is.

I

Permission to use the fund balance to pay off the loan to to the county. That's that's really just.

I

An administrative decision right, uh the waving of the interest- is really unrelated to to the.

I

First thing right and the arrangement was there would be interest paid. uh Andrea's argument is.

I

They wouldn't have accumulated this much interest if they had been able to move ahead more quickly.

I

On paying paying off the bill, that interest is not something that we built into our budgeting. We.

I

Weren't counting on that as a revenue or anything like that, like I said you know, it is money we.

I

Would have had invested somewhere, so we so we lost something, but the decision there is really.

I

Just totally in the hands of the board to say yes, we're willing to forgive it. No we're not willing.

I

To or as commissioner kyler said, we'll forgive half of it or you know whatever you want to do.

I

And really, I don't believe it's has any significant implications for a future budget.

C

Are we setting a precedence for other loans, or is this pretty much a unique situation.

C

um We don't have a lot of loans. The biggest thing we do is with fire companies, but that's basically.

I

Just a pass-through they, they are paying the the bills there's a few other places, but.

I

We've done other things at other times, I'd hate to call this a precedent, because we've.

I

Made other decisions: okay and that's fair: you make decisions based on specific cases. um The uh would.

A

This complete the loan, this five hundred thousand you're asking me, I'm asking you okay, this this.

G

Would complete the loan we borrowed 500 000 and that's the amount we would pay back. Jenny. Did you.

A

We'll have something that you wanted to share. It was just I have the same concern of the presidents.

J

That please come on come up to mike I apologize sorry. I have the same concerns that commissioner.

J

Kyler just said that it would set presidents that we are waiving interest on these loans and.

J

We have fire companies, we have other outside agencies that have these loans, that we have.

J

Not waived interest on prior, but that is entirely your decision. Have we waived interest on others.

A

It's my understanding, there's a buffer for some of the fire departments that that there's an.

G

Allowance for for some of the interests, there's not um they get a rate based on, depending on what.

J

The interest rate is at that time and then they have to repay once we issue bonds. So we do not.

J

um They are required to pay the interest back in full with the principal as well.

H

I think part of our argument for asking to have the interest wage is that until we.

H

Paid the last invoice on construction, we were not able to make an offer to pay off the loan.

H

And since we had no control over when that last invoice was given to us for payment.

H

He really couldn't control the interest that was accruing. What portion of the total time of.

C

The loan was that waiting to pay the final thing, but it wasn't the whole portion half.

G

Quarter it's about eight months, eight months yeah, so it's a significant portion of it.

B

So I think it's I think it's worth noting that as a as executive director of the carroll county.

B

Public library, I would expect you to come and ask the wave of interest, I think you're probably doing.

B

Your job at that point, thank you, I think, but uh detaching. The two is might be a reasonable.

B

Approach and then trying to figure out how to square that up at a later date. In terms of the.

B

Interest- I don't know if we want to be doing both at in the same motion for certain, but uh I'm not.

B

Sure how I feel about waving the interest, and if maybe we need to take a look at that a little bit.

B

More to ensure that we are not creating some uh some unnecessary presence. I I do understand the.

G

Precedent piece, but this particular building cycle was highly unique. I I yeah I I have no.

B

Doubt at all in that and and not being able to re repay a loan I mean you know if you couldn't you.

B

Know if you own a mortgage, and you want to recast your loan and you can't that doesn't seem fair.

B

You're, paying all this interest and you have the money to repay it and bring down your principal.

B

And it doesn't seem like a fair alternative for anybody. I completely understand that the.

B

You at some point you may not even be able to get anybody on the phone during covet. I I completely.

B

Understand but I do think we need to detach the two and make sure we are taking a good hard look.

B

At that, the question that's being asked yeah, I think regardless we have to because one is getting.

A

The authorization spend the fund balance um when one more time about that 26 000. You mentioned what.

A

Was that that's? That was the final invoice. That was the final. That was the invoice that that we.

G

Had outstanding that came in about seven eight months ago, um and that with working with county.

G

Buildings they requested, we did not pay because they wanted to maintain the contractor's interest.

G

In the project to finish it, there were several items that needed to be finished um and and.

G

The feeling was that if we paid the final invoice, the contractor would lose interest in coming out.

G

And actually completing the project, which I think happens in a lot of projects, especially.

G

When you get to those last few details, I don't, I don't think that's unusual at all.

G

hmm But we did not receive the the final invoice until those last things were done.

G

So we didn't have an actual dollars and cents. We had a rounded number.

C

And and obviously you're very comfortable with your fund balance going down to around 100 grand.

G

Not really, but it's it's what we need to do. We want to get it paid. The a previous.

G

Administration for the library made two promises with this project, and this is the fulfillment of.

G

The second one, the first was that we would get it open without asking for additional operating funds.

G

Which we've done, and the second is, we would pay off the loan and and we would raise the rest of.

G

The money on our own and we've done that as well, so comfortable is a bad word, but you're willing.

C

To do it, I'm willing to do it in order to to make good on our promises as an organization. Yes,.

D

So can I ask, I mean it did and- and I guess this is a question for whoever maybe tim if.

D

You have any thought about this or know about this. Is there anything contractual.

D

With that loan, which obligates the paying of the balance left with the interest at the same time,.

K

Sorry, I don't have the agreement.

J

um There's a sign promissory note that was dated on february 27 2019. That says.

J

About them accruing the interest and it has the stated percentage rate in there, but ben.

D

Does it say that both the the balance and that interest have to be paid at the same time? It's.

J

Sorry, that's okay. I don't mean to put you on the spot or anything like that.

D

I know you're trying to read some stuff. um It does say that it's due yes, it is do well.

J

It shouldn't extend past 15 years for the whole draw and everything, so it doesn't say that it.

J

The draw can go out, but yes, they do have to pay technically. The the accrued interest was to begin.

J

On the date of the first draw and it says, shall be paid semi-annually, so so we we could say: okay, pay.

D

Off the the balance of the 500 000 and then over the next 15 years paid two thousand dollars a year.

D

As an interest payment you could, I was actually can I make a suggestion.

J

um That they were saying that it should have taken eight months before the project. Could we.

J

And I don't know this is just a suggestion. I'm making that we say that.

J

Negotiate that they just pay eight interest equal to eight months when that 500 000, which would I.

J

Just did a rough estimate would be around 10 600, instead of the full thirty thousand. It's just a.

J

Suggestion because it took the money, did go out of our bank account and I have to look at the.

J

Interest that the county would be earning on that money if it was sitting in the investment accounts.

J

Yeah, no, that was very valid, very yes, appropriate suggestion. um Where was interest paid on the other.

A

Million that has been paid to date. We never took all the draws. We only took the one drop yeah, the.

H

Loan was for the amount of 1.5 and we took the first draw on march 19th of 2021.. Okay, I just hate.

A

Being so confused go ahead. Okay, there's a piece you might be forgetting here. The commissioners.

I

Originally put six hundred thousand dollars into this project and and approved a loan. But in the.

I

Last budget process you put in at I think it was a million dollars might not be exactly obey, but.

I

You put in another million dollars which made it unnecessary for the full loan to be used.

F

So the commissioners right, we funded a million dollars. Yes right.

A

Okay, yeah. That makes more sense to me um well uh well, I think I, like commissioner garen's.

D

Suggestion of separating the two- and I don't think commissioner ross and you may have alluded to this.

D

As well separating the authorization for the payment of the 500 000 from the interest which.

D

Would give us the the ability to look at the interest itself and determine based on whether.

D

It would be a president whether or not uh this is something that we want to pursue.

D

um It would give us the time to reflect on that. I have no problem with them, paying off the the 500.

D

000 um but you know certainly the question of the the the interest and I think I like the idea of.

D

The fact that and again this is just me saying that without uh I like the idea of of just that,.

D

Eight months that ten thousand six hundred roughly and that's another reason why I would suggest.

D

Waiting, uh you know separating the two so that we could see. Actually you know how much interest has.

D

Been accued to the to the scent ten thousand nine. Seventy three fifteen: if we're talking about eight.

H

Months, ten thousand nine seventy three fifteen along you could also just say eight months of.

F

Interest, if that's easier and- and I tend to oversimplify so I'd rather see this settled,.

C

um My inclination would be that which is more than fair, that they pay five hundred and fifteen.

C

Thousand dollars in that fully satisfies the loan, so I don't think for ten or fifteen thousand. We.

C

Want to spend the next eight months talking about it, um and nor do you know so I think we have.

A

That's right: we have two actions. Yes, the first action. Where I mean we can, and that is.

A

um A motion to uh allow this um use of the fund balance correct, correct, okay,.

A

So I'll make a motion to authorize uh the use of fund balance for the payment of 500.

D

000 on the loan, you know I mean, do we even have to say a number or just use of the phone bounce, okay,.

B

Second, okay got a motion got a second any discussion on using the fund balance.

C

I'm I'm fine with they use the fund balance. I think we should do 515 and call it over with.

D

Can I ask why you would say 15 versus 10 973.15 that would that 10 000 would be our.

C

Portion they we would. The eight months was ten grand and uh prior to that was 20 grand correct.

G

30 grand 30. yeah, so the total was 30.. So I just said: let's: let's not do 40, let's just.

C

Split it in half and call it done. I I I I follow the line of reasoning, but if the the amount of.

D

Interest accrued in that time was ten thousand nine hundred seventy three fifteen. Why would.

D

We go for 50., then we could say 20 grand, I'm okay with that too. In other words, we're of the.

C

30 grand we're forgiving the 10 for the eight months that leaves 20.. I was just reducing it.

A

Yeah, so why wouldn't we go with basically, like you said, 20, grand or 19.? If we're.

A

Forgiving, the eight months, okay, I'm always backwards. I'm sorry. Are we nice.

L

To be glad he was saying was that we anticipated the project being eight months long, so we.

G

Anticipated having the loan for eight months, so we would pay eight months of interest. I think.

G

That's right, that's how I was looking at it as opposed to forgiving eight months. We would just.

G

Be responsible for the initial eight months that we anticipated this project being that's what we.

G

Planned into the project, that's the interest. He was saying that we, he felt the library should.

G

Pay, I don't mean to put words in your mouth. No, no, that's! That's that's correct. I got what kenny was.

D

Saying backwards but yeah yeah, I was saying: cut him a break for five grand, because if we.

C

Keep talking about they're gonna owe twenty dollars more in interest. It's 44. repeating.

H

At 1201. jenny, can you come back up here for a sec.

A

Because now I'm.

A

Is the you believe a way of solving this is to pay off or is to have the library pay the eight months.

A

Of interest because of the expectations of the um the work being done was eight months.

J

Their effort would be that if they expected it to be eight months, I mean we can't help the delays.

J

And everything that the economy took, of course pandemic was in that mix. This was signed prior to.

J

The pandemic, starting, I think, a fair look at this- would be if their expectation they were.

J

Fully expecting to pay within the eight months and unfortunately, the pandemic happened and.

J

Things happen and I think affair price would be to say get back to what they originally expected.

J

So my opinion, so instead of yeah go ahead. I'm sorry so yeah whatever that figure needs to.

B

Be and we'll just have to amend the motion to that amount. So we're talking 510 917.. Can you.

J

Just cap it to the eight say, eight months worth of interest and be a little easier.

J

That way you don't have to get into the exact figure is that is that submissible absolutely.

A

Okay, so what you would do is, I think, amend you. Disagree, yeah you're allowed seriously.

I

Go ahead, yes, I I believe you, you have to approve the amount that they're going to.

I

Use from from balance, okay, so okay, the mia does specifically state that. So you know if this is.

I

All going to be paid from fund balance, then it needs to be the total. Whatever we settle.

I

On could just be eleven thousand dollars, I was gonna say it would be. Okay with eleven thousand.

G

Dollars at this point, if you want to do so I'll I'll, amend my motion uh to five hundred eleven.

D

Thousand dollars from the fund balance the fund balance to approve use, a fund balance for 511 000.

A

A

Is there a second, I apologize. No, that's a second thank you, and, and I'm fine with that, but then.

C

We're eating they're paying eight months we're eating whatever 23 minus eight is, but that's fine.

C

I'm happy okay, the math's wrong, but you're eating 15 months a day. They have a very nice place and.

C

Lewis was a very good contractor, so we should bend their way. Thank you. I appreciate that. Okay, any.

A

Other discussion appreciate all the discussion we had from both ted kenny and the two of you as well.

A

All in favor aye aye. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. It was easy. Wasn't it.

L

Very appreciative, thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. The importance about this is.

A

I mean whether it's a dollar eleven thousand dollars or x. We are taking this very serious.

A

Because it's not our money, absolutely. I appreciate that conversation absolutely.

A

um Okay: let's talk about transitional housing facilities, capital loan all right good morning,.

M

Commissioners, good morning, I'm joined this morning with debt by debbie standiford our grants manager.

M

um I also have scott yard is with us and in the audience as we're talking about the family.

M

Shelter relocation- I wanted to have him here um uh we're here before you today, for the approval.

M

um uh Just to to advise you that we have been approved um of the from the maryland shelter.

M

And transitional housing facilities, capital loan grant program um and we wanted to come back before.

M

You today, we came before the board in december of 2022 for approval to submit this application for.

M

Funding to help us support the relocation and the renovation of the current family, shelter.

M

um The funding that we were seeking would help us to do this renovation and relocation, because.

M

Our current family, shelter, that's been in operation for over 30 years, is really not.

M

um The safest best location that we could we could host our most vulnerable clients in carroll, county.

M

In which is our children and families so over the years, the shelter over the past four years, the.

M

Shelter has served 306 adults and 243 children. The shelter typically does operate at capacity.

M

And with a waiting list, the current shelter doesn't provide the adequate space and there.

M

Are significant concerns about the safety and accessibility and the lack of child friendly.

M

Spaces so if you've been there- and we would welcome any of you who have not been there- scott.

M

Would be happy to provide a tour of the shelter space? There is no grass area in the location where.

M

They they are currently housed. In 2021, though, the county did purchase the building on stoner avenue.

M

In westminster, in order to relocate this family shelter, so this has been a work in progress and in.

M

Response to the application for this funding for the the um the maryland shelter and transitional.

M

Housing facilities, capital grant program, we have gotten a letter of award for carroll.

M

County for 1.5 million dollars to help support that renovation and relocation. But instead of.

M

The awarding a grant like the department of housing and community development has done in.

M

The past they've kind of changed their program and they're calling this a repayable loan and.

M

What that means is if we continue to operate the shelter for 15 years in in the full capacity of.

M

A shelter as we have suggested, which we intend to do there would be no repayment required. So we just.

M

Wanted to come before you today, so that you had an understanding that that the way that they've.

M

Awarded this has changed and then ted, I don't know if you want to speak, I see you standing back there.

M

Or if debbie wants to go into the budget for the project go ahead, wow, that's pretty impressive!.

M

My rear view, I just wanted to add one note for the commissioners on the side. You have a repayable.

I

Loan in instead of a grant on the surface, you might say it doesn't make any difference and in.

I

The end we don't get to choose so it does, it doesn't make any difference, but because it's.

I

Going to be a loan uh for accounting reasons, we have to reserve the amount of this loan.

I

So there's there's money that would potentially have been available for use. That is going to be.

I

Sitting on the sideline, while we're waiting for this to get done- and this is, I think, the second.

I

Time we've had this come up recently, I'm hoping that this is not a a trend and we're going to.

I

See because it would mean tying up um with a with a big loan. You know a lot of money.

A

Did we did this? Was it last a couple weeks two weeks ago with atlanta resource management.

F

They had the same thing, oh and for a grant by the uh fire. Was it wells or something.

A

um Or a storm warner management, it was by um the training center.

A

And it was a loan thanks that, because that does also tie up that money. um Yeah, okay, interesting.

A

I mean: is it easier for the state to do it this way or for others I mean I it's unclear and I.

N

Spoke to the program officer about the change um didn't shed a lot of light on it, but I mean we had.

N

The same oblique, we use the same grant program to build the safe haven, shelter right on stoner.

N

Avenue and there was an obligation to operate for 15 years- they placed a lien on the property at.

N

That time, so I'm thinking this mechanism is safer for the state. They then ensure that nothing else.

N

Will happen to the property and we will use it um under the terms and conditions that we've agreed.

N

To we have to report to the state every year that we're still using it and who's been served.

N

But it is the same funding and we would have an obligation to operate it anyway. It doesn't change.

N

That obligation just the mechanism changes and how we have to recognize that loan at the county level.

A

Okay, so so, if we did this, would this fall under the current fiscal year or next fiscal year.

N

Currently, their letter of intent to award, we have not accepted the funding yet and we don't. We are.

N

Not going, they asked us to put the application in um now so we're in the queue they have. They have.

N

A limited amount of funding each year with the understanding that we might push it out. I don't.

N

Think that this will go, I I'm thinking we won't be in construction until early 2025.. We need to get.

N

Design done and we need to get the other funding sources in place, so I think this will push into.

N

2025 and that won't affect the viability of the loan or anything or no. They understand that this.

N

Letter of intent is good for one year. So if we're not ready to draw the money and.

N

And settle after that one year point we'll need to talk to them about pushing it into.

N

The next fiscal year and they're aware of that, I'm sorry! So I'm sorry, you know and.

D

From our perspective, you know what ted said is: if we do this, then we're going to have to.

D

Allocate 1.5 million from somewhere to do this correct. It's a that's! An accounting function.

I

Right so um remember the idea of fund balance. At the end of the year we have more revenue.

I

Than we budgeted or fewer expenditures and we budgeted there's some money left over.

I

If the commissioners don't act in a budget to do something with that, that remains in an accounting.

I

Place we call it unassigned fund balance. Doing this means we would have to take 1.5 million.

I

Dollars out of unassigned fund balance actually identify it as saved reserved against this loan.

I

When that, when that's done, then it would become available for unassigned fund balance again so.

I

You don't lose anything, uh but it takes away your ability to use the money. So so we're not.

C

Earning interest on that money: well, you would be while it's sitting, while it's reserved on this.

I

Loan, we would have it invested and we could still have an investment, in other words, we're not losing.

C

The fact that we could earn interest on it, because that would that would be a half million dollars.

C

Or so, but we're not losing that right. You're not losing your ability for interest you're, not losing.

I

Your ability to eventually use the money, it's just for a while. It's tied up right and no interest.

N

Accrues on this either, so, even if we had to pay it back, let's say you know. After 14 years there.

N

Would be no interest accrued and we're not paying interest as it goes and the other question we had.

N

For the state is, is it? Is it reduced by each year that we operate, which is how grants typically work.

N

She would is going to get back to us on that, but when we signed the final.

N

Agreement, that's one thing we'll look for so. Can we reduce what we've reserved by.

N

A million or a hundred thousand, I can't do math on the spot. I should know that by now.

N

As many times as I have tried to do that a hundred thousand dollars a year, yeah yeah.

A

Now good good questions and appreciate all the follow-up staffing. Okay, any other questions. If.

A

Not is there a motion motion uh to accept the fy 24, maryland shelter and transitional housing.

D

Facilities, capital loan. Second, I got a motion a second any discussion seen here. None all in favor.

L

Aye aye aye good job. Ladies all, right. Thank you, commissioners. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, mr zaleski,.

A

And there's evan budget update for second quarter fy 23. morning.

I

Foreign, so this just to give you a scent while we're talking about unassigned fund.

I

Balance, this is kind of heading toward what do we see at the end of fiscal year? 23. now.

I

Of course, it's very early, there's still a lot that can happen. So we're not saying these are.

I

The numbers just with what we know today, here's what we think it would look like.

I

um Start with a really big picture and then I'll fill in how we got there, uh we believe we will end.

I

Fiscal year, 23 with about 27 million dollars that would be, uh could go to unassigned fund balance.

I

I want to say at this point: this is going to be the third consecutive year of unusually.

I

Large surpluses, I still very firmly believe that this is not an indication that this is.

I

Our new norm, I think we're still finding our way through some unusual years. I know.

I

There will undoubtedly be people who are going to look at what's been going on and.

I

Say you've got lots of money, you can do x or y or or z, and I'm not there.

I

um Now, oh that 27 million dollars, we have a long-standing arrangement where we look.

I

At one percent of what was left over as a revenue to a future fiscal year, that'd be.

I

About four and a half million dollars, so we left with about 22 and a half million.

I

Now this number can still change and there are some things that are still unsettled right now,.

I

That could lead to this be even noticeably larger than what we're saying right now. There's some.

I

Downside, but I think there's more upside right now than there is downside. So how did we get there.

I

You know revenue side, we're figuring property tax is going to come in about a million dollars more.

I

Than we budgeted, uh a million dollars is a lot of money, but a million dollars on our property.

I

Tax revenue is not a very significant difference: income tax. This is the big question mark right now,.

I

We're saying 13 and a half million dollars over budget, uh our first distribution back in november.

I

Came in well over expectations and there was just a meeting yesterday. Unfortunately, I was.

I

Not able to be there, but the budget analyst taylor, hawkins smith was we talked with people across the.

I

State with the state comptroller about income tax and basically, what we're hearing from the state.

I

Comptroller is not into these words, but you've got us, we don't understand. What's going on either.

I

So it's hard to know what that means for the rest of this fiscal year or for the future.

I

But with 13.5 million dollars you know we're saying if the rest of the year comes in as we.

I

Expected it here's where we're going to end up, but it's certainly possible right now that we're going.

I

To see more than we expected, which means that this number would continue to grow recreation, we think.

I

Will come in about 1.2 million dollars more than we budgeted? This is a this is a changing situation.

I

You know, we've uh recreation, you know is: is one percent on uh sales of property uh when covid hit.

I

We thought house sales would more or less stop that didn't happen. In fact, we've had.

I

Booming time, which has meant recreation has gone up to not the highest we've ever seen, but getting.

I

In the vicinity of highest river's ever seen, but we know that that can't continue at that rate.

I

Homes are not going to continue to sell, as they have been in the last two years and we're already.

I

Starting to see that change, the questions are just how quickly do things change and and and how much.

I

So we are expecting a slowdown, the rest of the year, if, if we get the timing wrong, the 1.2 might.

I

Be 1.4, or maybe it's only a million if things slow down even more quickly than we expected.

I

uh Rest of revenues- all toted up, don't really have a significant impact on our expectations.

I

On the expenditure side in any year, we expect to not spend everything that we said. We could.

I

Spend you know again, the question is how how big is that, so um we are looking at about 10.

I

Million dollars, we think to be underspent, a million and a half of that is positions in.

I

Public works, a big part of that is positions and roads, open positions, we're not spending the money.

I

uh Sheriff about 600 000, open positions, state's attorney about 300 000, open positions: this is.

A

All at this is all of the 10 million yes, okay. Okay, thanks uh firing, ems about 1.2.

I

This is all about timing. We've budgeted for things to happen that have not happened yet.

I

um There's we did not build this in, but there's still about two million dollars.

I

Left in snow removal, which might actually add to our expectations but right now, as as calm a winter.

I

As it's been, it's still too early to assume that nothing is going to happen in february.

I

Or march, what was that figure again? Ted, I'm sorry about two million dollars that that budgeted, but.

I

Hasn't been spent good thing, uh general, your employees, about 900 000 for open positions.

I

The reserve for contingencies, we have uh 6.1 million dollars remaining now um the last board.

I

When we adopted this year's budget, we increased the size of the reserve for contingency, probably.

I

Not by 50 percent, but heading that way, the reason we did that was because of uncertainty about.

I

Inflation and rising costs- and we wanted to leave some room if we needed to deal with something.

A

One more time: how much is that 6.1 million dollars at this point thanks.

I

So we've spent about a million dollars out of the reserve for contingencies. The almost.

I

All of that would be two two decisions you made on space for the the sheriff.

I

um About a million dollars, this would have been the additional space at north.

I

Carroll high school and then the recent leasing of space that you you approved.

I

Then lots of other things moving in different directions, but they don't add up to.

I

Enough to uh make their way into this conversation, so you know we are.

I

Still in february, you know we have a good bit of the year left to go. I don't know how to tell you.

I

The things we don't we don't know about, but um you know we could have things that work.

I

Either for us or or against us as we try and determine exactly where this number will land.

I

um I think that's that's what I wanted to share with you. uh If there are.

I

Questions we can try and tackle those for you.

C

Are we seeing or still seeing any money from whatever the federal estate for covet money.

C

Or has that been exhausted and and we're not getting any more well, there's that's a complicated.

I

Question because there wasn't just one money and roberta is probably actually in a better position.

I

To answer that than I am so, we have received all the money we're going to receive as far as we know.

F

um And and not only uh directly to the county but also directly to and I say.

F

um Sort of to be used in some generic ways, but also specific programs. I've also received all.

F

The money we believe they're going to receive um and, um in fact we're going to do an update.

F

For the board on where all that stands in the next couple weeks, I think the beginning of march.

F

um So yeah that money's already been received and already allocated for.

F

The most part not necessarily spent yet, but none of it's a factor in this. No no.

D

And ted, would it be possible to get a copy of the the numbers that you just shared with us sure.

D

Thank you. It sounds like you have guarded optimism. Always I'm sorry, I'm not used to seeing that.

C

I've waited for the guarded optimist, a long time yeah there I got a smile come on the.

C

Most optimistic I've ever seen this gentleman. This is, it was it best western and none of the.

C

Commissioners made it and he was very optimistic that day, but unfortunately, you guys didn't see.

C

It it's not. It's not doing his chamber talk next thursday, the 16th the same way is it.

I

Next thursday, already it is in the afternoon, so I will not get that again. Yeah, don't don't.

A

Use the tennis ball analogy anymore: okay, we we got that one. It was just that one year.

I

um It's really not about optimism or or pessimism. You know I'm just trying to share what it is. I.

I

Think we can expect with the information that we have so right now. You know what people might take.

I

Is optimism is me saying yes, there's more money right now than we would typically expect to have.

I

um So, just it's: where we are, I mean it does it doesn't. You know, give us that more flexibility and.

A

I mean you know uh again, everybody has a priority, you know that's out there, that's listening and.

A

It's important that we hear those priorities but understand there is a lot of work to do.

A

To uh provide safety security, the great education, the quality of life we have in.

A

Our community in our county, I think it's good. You said that that way, because I probably should say.

I

This you know this does give you flexibility for one time kinds of things. It doesn't give.

I

You flexibility for adding positions, expanding services, etc and we'll come back to this again.

I

I'm just going to mention it today, so it's on on your mind. One thing I'm going to be.

I

Suggesting that you do is from this unusually large unassigned fund balance, and it's not just.

I

This year, but what we've accumulated for the last several years is to look at establishing by policy.

I

A a five percent unassigned fund balance that we intend to keep there. It's not sitting there.

I

To just use in any given budget budget, the way we typically would but to be sitting there for the.

I

Times when we have to deal with something unexpected and my my perfect example is.

I

Covid, you know, if not for the federal stimulus we would have been faced with the need to reduce.

I

Services in the middle of the year, I don't know how we would have avoided doing that and that's.

I

That's a very hard thing to do. You know: you've you've told people, here's what you've got to do.

I

Things you do and now you're saying. Oh but sorry we need to take something back and made harder.

I

For some organizations, because there are some places, you can't take the money back like once.

I

You send to the school system, you can't say: oh, we want five million dollars back, so it's even that.

I

Much more on on others, but if we had had a five percent unassigned fund balance sitting there and.

I

We did have to deal with it that would have given you a lot of room to think through how you wanted.

I

To address it rather than have being forced into making decisions, maybe that really weren't what.

I

You wanted right and then um as taught and led by you and others masking operational dollars with.

A

An unassigned fund balance is not good practice. Yes, um we're going to get into that very you know.

A

Deliberately but um you know being and that's part of that transparency being very open about.

A

How our out years look because they're pretty ugly right now, but uh they could have been masked and.

A

um You know we don't want to do that, um so this is. This is good. This to me is really good uh and it's.

A

Pretty exciting because uh looking at you know potential for on the side phone balance, but to.

A

Think that it could be matched into operational dollars, it's just not a good way to go. Yeah and.

I

On on the operating plan, um we've been focused here on one-time change, but we are going to be.

I

Bringing you back a better looking picture to start this budget process than where we were.

I

In the last budget process doesn't make all of our problems go away, but it's going to be.

I

A little easier to look at this year, we're not not prepared yet to get into the details of all.

I

That but uh we are confident that we're going to be able to give you a better starting point.

C

Okay- and I think you can't overemphasize that most of this is one-time money now.

C

Some of the positions may or may not be, but in theory you want to fill.

C

Those positions someday so that it's not really ongoing unless you eliminate them.

C

Yes, exactly right, it's only uh it's only one time unless you element yes,.

A

Okay, um any other discussion.

A

Comments appreciate, yeah. I think that getting uh getting this email to us also helps so really.

A

Appreciate it, thank you. Thank you very much. Maybe you're the strong, silent type.

A

Let's get a little planning going, give us as much great news, as mr zaleski just gave us. I think.

A

It's great news: I think it is too because that uh product that you presented and you're gonna.

C

Present to us we're only here to listen to the budget part well that too, and that was exciting.

A

Okay, so eisenberg, who do you have with you yeah, yeah so good morning, commissioners, I.

O

Have with me today, abigail rogers and tiffany fawcett. They are the two planners and our staff.

O

That put together the zoning definition and explainer documents that you have.

O

um This was addressed with the last ford of county commissioners, as we were working our way through.

O

The comprehensive code update to come up with um a more visual display of our zoning code and a more.

O

Easier to use explanation of what our zoning code is, we understand that codes are complex. They are.

O

The rule of law, so these regulations should not be very simple, but they shouldn't be so.

O

um So much so that you, you can't read through and kind of get the basic premise of what they.

O

Are about so part of what we did for the code? Update was modernization of the code getting.

O

Rid of uses that don't exist anymore, cleaning up some areas of the code putting in a table of uses.

O

For each district, which was huge because you'd have to read down a list of what was allowed in.

O

The district, what was allowed by a conditional use approval, and sometimes it wasn't really clear in.

O

Reading the text, so we thought the table of uses was a really nice way to have an at a glance to.

O

um For the county code, now these two documents, the definitions and the explainer- do not replace.

O

The county code or the county zoning administrator's interpretation of the.

O

Code, that is, first and foremost, this is just a way to help the layperson.

O

um Understand what it is that they're reading, if they have additional questions, comments, concerns.

O

To contact planners in our office to contact to the zoning administrator and get the clarification.

O

That's necessary. This is also posted on our website. We do have printed copies available.

O

For those that wish to have that so last copy I apologize printed copies. Pardon me printed copies.

A

For who, whoever would like them? Okay? Are we going to um provide them potentially at the libraries.

A

Or senior centers, or for we can certainly do that. We take a look we're getting away from a lot of.

O

The printed documents, unless they're requested, um but we can certainly make some accommodations and.

O

Print um some materials out for this absolutely and whoever requests them to. We were happy to.

O

Print these documents and bind them and get them in the hands of those who are interested.

D

um That's a good idea, commissioner. I apologize but I've had a number of people who've reached out.

D

To me about obtaining printed copies of certain things and then of course, I'm pretty old-fashioned.

D

Myself, so I prefer printed copies where I can get them. That's all right. I still paper paper.

O

Too sometimes it's just easier. It's foolproof. I mean it always works whenever you need it right.

K

Right, no totally understand that, um but you know, as I said, a lot of it's also online too, but we'll.

O

Print out, whatever um needs to be printed out and from whomever might need that information.

O

um So with that, I'm going to have um these ladies present um the information that they have in front.

O

Of you today and also you did receive copies ahead of today's briefing um and actually the.

O

Reason we're presenting especially today, is because you've been hearing a lot of zoning.

O

Cases we had one last week that we were able to pull this from um our our staff and bring.

O

This up to you to help make your decision. I mean you're having another zoning hearing next week.

O

As well so this will be a good tool for you to understand what the zoning is, what the allowable.

O

Uses are and aren't, and what some of the other things we think of uses, but there's also other.

O

Parts of the code like bulk requirements, which will go over over setbacks, other design criteria.

O

That are all part of our code, so with that, I'm going to turn it over to abigail and tiffany.

P

Hi, so um this came around because of the zoning code update. It's part of the master plan.

P

Implementation to update chapter 158 of the zoning regulations- and this is for consistency, reasons.

P

So this is an illustrated guide to the definitions in zoning. It's intended to a company like linda.

P

Said not replace the codify definitions, it's an informal guide and it's developed so like any.

P

Citizen can kind of figure out what these terms mean and the terms are alphabetical.

P

Too we found that was the most simple way to organize them. So uh we've been talking about.

P

This, since about 2019 and the goal was to just inform residents um anyone who's, not a.

P

Planner basically and uh the code revisions were completed, so now is the perfect time for that.

P

And the terms pertain to stuff like lots, bolts, requirements, transportation, different kinds of.

P

Residences, like apartments houses, detached accessory dwelling units.

P

um And also technical terms.

P

And sort of just a diagram, if you look at any page of this packet of how this works is you'll.

P

Have the code definition, which is what's the legalese what is in the code, and it's also.

P

Reference, so you can find it in the code and then the layperson's explanation, which is sort of the.

P

Plain english: how do you how you'd explain it to a friend and some of these graphics are photos just.

P

As examples and some of them are diagrams some that I made some that I found in other sources.

P

And this is just an example: you have for frontage the code definition the front of the lot so on and.

P

Then a diagram that shows in yellow where that is and then sort of the explanation of what frontage.

P

Means and what the grade plane means- and this was really important with frontage, especially on.

O

Properties and in the code where we have multiple frontages reference, so we do have that also.

O

um In a diagram as well, I'm kind of showing you okay front side, front, rear front just.

O

Depending on what what it faces, and so it seems pretty straightforward to me- I would um in case.

P

Anyone has questions about any specifically one of the terms. I can answer that, for you.

O

So does any definition: explainer are really the terms that you'll find in the code and.

O

That's what the stock view is, so we're not going to go through each one of those, but.

O

Please review if you have any questions, comments, concerns we're happy to come and meet with you.

O

On what these are, but I think it's pretty self-explanatory. um This 15-page document.

C

I have a question and it doesn't have to be for today, but I think, as we hear more zoning issues.

C

We're going to start hearing of non-conforming uses and conditional uses and and I'd love to.

C

Hear some good explanation on that and, like I said, doesn't have to be today but but moving forward.

C

I just think it's gonna, I think at our next public hearing we're going to hear that I think.

O

Okay, all right! Well, I think we'll get to some of that with the portion that tiffany has prepared.

O

Which is a citizen's guide to carroll county zoning districts? So what abigail prepared was.

O

More what terms you'll find this is now kind of a reinterpretation, so to speak of the code itself.

O

So go ahead, tiffany and and that's the document you brought to last correct. Yes, yes and she did.

O

A wonderful graphical job as well as abigail kind of colorizing it and keeping consistent with the.

O

Theme moving forward with all of the districts and definitions of things, so thank you. You.

Q

Did anyone need a copy we do? I do have extras today.

Q

Staff has, as linda had already pointed out, staff has created a citizen's guide.

Q

To carroll county zoning districts as a companion to the zoning definitions.

Q

That abigail just presented to help with a layperson's interpretation, whereas the.

Q

Zoning definitions were part of the implementation of the comp plan since.

Q

2019., the guide itself really came out of the discussion during the process of that.

Q

um So and it's just to make the um the zoning and planning more approachable to the citizen.

Q

Of carroll county, hopefully in its entirety, the guide is intended as it sorry I'm looking over.

Q

Them no you're, fine, you're fine as it just please understand that I am doing it in its entirety. The.

Q

Guide is intended as an overview that follows the zoning process in carroll county that begins with.

Q

The five general land use categories and then that lays the basis for the designated land uses that.

Q

Are found in and envisioned in the carroll county master plan, the freedom community comprehensive.

Q

Plan and the finksburg corridor plan and that lays the basis for the future zoning districts.

Q

Thank you. The guide begins with a table of contents and a brief description of introduction.

Q

And the next page it shows the five general land use categories for carroll county and gives a.

Q

Description of each the next page is a table that shows the zoning districts their relation to those.

Q

Categories, the general land use categories and then, on the right hand, side just a very brief.

Q

Description of what each of those zoning districts is, but that is all of the zoning districts.

Q

And then, after that, the guide is sectioned and sorted by general land use categories.

Q

Those categories are agricultural conservation, residential, commercial.

Q

And industrial and on the cover sheet of each of those sections, you'll see the.

Q

Future land uses and the zoning districts that are associated with those categories.

Q

And then each section begins with the future land uses associated with that category.

Q

On the left hand, side of that page you'll see the future land uses as defined or described in.

Q

The plans and, on the right hand, side you'll, see those future land uses as designated in the plans.

Q

On the next page, you see, oh, go back. Sorry, that's okay, and the next phase is the zoning districts.

Q

Associated with that general land use category, so in this case it's residential, so you see.

Q

um All of those zoning districts listed on the left hand, side of that and on the.

Q

Right hand, side: you see the map of those zoning districts in the county.

Q

Next, each zoning district is explained, so it can be used as a standalone book. Look.

Q

At the district, so in this case again using residential as an example, those.

Q

Zoning districts would be as standalones they are 40, 000 or 20. 000 are ten thousand in our.

Q

Seven thousand residence districts that would fall under that section.

Q

Finally, following the zoning text from the code and the colors from the zoning map, each district.

Q

Is broken into four at a glance snapshots for quick reference? Those snapshots are the purpose.

Q

The permitted uses the conditional uses and the bulk requirements, although I'm going to be using.

Q

R20000 as an example that um that template can be used for it would supply to all of the zoning.

Q

Districts in the guide, thank you. The first one in the zoning districts will be the purpose of the.

Q

Zoning district, on the left hand side. It shows the zoning district purpose as taken from the code and.

Q

On the right hand, side shows a map of the zoning districts in the county. The next one will be the.

Q

Permitted uses of the districts on the left at the top of the left hand side. You see the explanation.

Q

Of what a permitted use is under that you'll see a table that shows what the principal use is. What.

Q

A an accessory use is and what a non-conforming use is and, on the right hand, side you see the.

Q

Typical permitted uses by principal use and accessory use and under that you see that there.

Q

Is a reference to the code where you can find that information in the code and on the bottom of every.

Q

Page you'll see that there is a disclaimer that says that this guide is for reference only and.

Q

To please contact us the office of the zoning administrator for further clarification on the.

Q

Ordinances right, so this does not replace the code. We want to make that very clear.

Q

Thank you. The next page shows the conditional uses on the left hand side. It explains that.

Q

A conditional use may be allowed, if approved by the carroll county's board of zoning appeals, bza.

Q

And under that, it shows what the bza does and, on the right hand, side. It shows the conditional.

Q

Uses that are required that require bza approval enlisted in alphabetical order. Under that again.

Q

Reference to where you can find that in the code and the disclaimer on the bottom left as well.

Q

And then, finally, in each district, you'll see the bulk requirements.

Q

With the asterisk, showing wherever it's in different places on different.

Q

um Different bulk requirement pages, but it will explain what bulk requirements are, because it's.

Q

Not very a very familiar term for people that that does determine the size and placement of.

Q

A building on a lot then there's an illustrated version of the showing the bulk requirements as.

Q

Well, as a table showing the bulk requirements for the typical lot requirements for dwelling.

Q

In the agricultural, the conservation and the residential categories, however, the.

Q

Commercial and then the industrial show a building on the lot, as opposed to the dwelling on the left.

Q

Hand side, then there is the bulk requirements for the other permitted uses in that district, with no.

Q

Renderings for that up in the right hand, corner if there is something that we thought was of note for.

Q

That district, we just note it there. For instance, when you go into an r 20 000 district, it is not.

Q

Always a minimum lot size of 20 000 square feet because it could be clustered allowing for more.

Q

Open space but not increasing the density, and so that might be a smaller lot size and as linda.

Q

Had said, all of this is available on our website under planning resources. Do you have any questions.

A

Any questions I'll share with you. uh These are awesome. You know, after living, through.

A

This very last few years, going through the definitions, the deliberate approach.

A

um You know participating on planning and zoning, I mean it's definitely a team effort.

A

It's not one or the other, but it's all and uh being able to package it color code. It.

A

Make it easy to read for the community for us, you know so when somebody calls me about x, I.

A

Can say hold on and I can pull this out as a guide. I mean it's all yeah. It's awesome a lot.

O

Of hard work- and I can't thank them enough for all the hard work and hours they put in.

O

um To thinking of how, how do you make this visual an illustrative of what a lot of boring text is.

O

And they really did do a great job at that. So what are you doing to uh to award them or reward them.

O

So I got, I got one.

O

Oh a challenge coin. What, oh my gosh all right! Thank you.

O

Hey congrats, ladies, the work is phenomenal. I I tell you, I we've lived through this over years and.

A

Obviously, for me in the freedom district, you know I get questions and challenged in all the time.

A

And it's like, I can't come up with a clear answer in so many ways, but this allows me to do that and.

A

It's not to be confrontational is to be clear, it's to be definitive and that's what this is about.

A

um So yeah just a great job with both of these products. Thank you, and I do owe you a coin. I'm.

A

Sure yeah we're very proud, and thank you so much for recognizing that we appreciate it absolutely.

A

Wonderful one more condition: one more question on conditional uses in in the agricultural district.

C

Are the conditional uses do they apply to all ag land? Do they reply to remainders? Are there.

C

Different conditional uses, so the zoning emotional uses applies to all authorities.

P

Regardless of agreement or not, though, there are some certain stipulations with remaining portions.

O

That were changed with the recodification of the agzone and limits of how many you.

O

Can have on those remaining portions in general. This list applies to correct. We don't discern.

O

Between agreementers non-agrimanders and then easements are treated the same. But what happens.

O

Under the easement or the terms of the easement agreement, well then, so additional limitations of.

O

What can and can't be done on that property? Okay, you just just to clarify something. I.

B

Might have been misunderstood about, can you or can you not put a church on agland? You can't.

B

Permission: okay, so that would fall under public facility when I'm looking at the principal uses.

O

um I don't see church, I think of it as institution as a conditional use.

Q

Religious establishment under conditional use- oh there was just I was looking for the wrong.

B

Word. Okay! Thank you. No that's a good note for me to oh, that's. I could add church in.

Q

There, too, you never know. Nowadays, you probably just ain't better off going with religious and.

C

And I think one of the issues that has come up lately is what is a church again.

C

Yeah my humble opinion in ag areas. A church was something that 40 or 50 people went to on sunday.

C

Not a mega church that has 5 000 people, but I guess by your definition. A church is a church.

A

But also we we had that conversation when we were going through the definitions, because.

A

We we had a round table out there. Okay, um it went from, I think, permissible to conditional.

A

um To ensure people are going through the next step? Okay, so it's not! You know one fit.

A

Fits all or one size fits all, um so in theory, the next step will clarify some of that correct.

A

And it goes through the bca and it gets the community more engaged and and folks defining it.

A

um I I'm not a big fan of conditional use. I like black and white, but for agricultural district.

A

um uh We found that conditional use was valuable to take it to the next step.

A

um And not just you know, say: yep you're approved just because it's permissible so and I from what.

A

I remember religious facilities was part of that conversation. It's come up in my district and I'll.

B

Just say the these are fantastic. I I wish I had had these when I was on the planning and zoning.

B

Commission a long time ago, because boy, oh boy, that could get confusing my last question is uh this:.

B

Probably isn't fair to you, but are we going to be able to put these online? They are online they're.

O

Already online, okay just want to make sure yep and that's the websites that are referenced here.

O

In the presentation, just things can be all right. My father would whatever the other commissioners.

D

Have said this morning, these are beautifully done. I do writing editing and graphic design for.

D

A living and these these really are beautifully done, and I'm wondering if and it doesn't have to.

D

Be today, can I get extra copies of each of these, because I'd like to keep some of them at home and.

D

Some of them here at the office, I mean absolutely want us to sign them for you today. I know people I.

D

Don't have challenge coins for you guys we'll give you an autographed copy uh they're. They are you.

A

Yeah, like uh commissioner karen was on the planning zoning years ago, and.

A

Oh my gosh, I I couldn't imagine having this years ago, let alone just two years ago: oh yeah, it's it.

B

Was uh it could be quite a lift so much easier so right and and as others will tell you when I keep.

C

Asking my questions, you can tactfully say: did you read it before you asked me those or you know, but.

C

At least look at the picture now fantastic. um I fell into that trap a minute ago. So mr burke do.

A

You have any comments on this. Okay. Well done, miss windham! No! I think they're great, I think, and also.

F

Just to um commissioner garen's point: the code itself is so much easier to read now with just.

F

The table uses than it was before so that alone was a big step forward, and then this is just the.

F

Icing on the cake so very well done absolutely and I still got complaints from the old guys.

B

Well, how did you mess with that code yeah, but you got to tell commissioner weaver to go away.

A

Laughs: um okay, uh is there any requirement here, just informational, okay,.

A

Thank you so much. Thank you very much thanks mary you're, the strong silent type behind them.

A

And now, let's talk about the uh transportation, yes, transportation program.

E

Morning, okay, I mean again so today is an introduction um to familiarize you all with the.

O

Consolidated transportation program, um the county priority letter and how this works.

O

With the county's transportation priorities that we forward for for state roads to the maryland.

O

Department of transportation again this this is state road. So we're not talking about some of our.

O

Local county roads in this process, we are talking about roads that are under state control. The state.

O

Doesn't necessarily know what our priorities are for each of our major roads unless we tell them.

O

And some of those roads are completely within carroll county. Some of them are in multiple.

O

Jurisdictions and as our role in the baltimore metropolitan council's regional transportation.

O

Board, brtb and you'll hear some of that later. When I come to you with our agency briefing.

O

um This really is the culmination of what we'll be forwarding under your direction to the state.

O

For your priorities for the county for state roads, now I'm going to go back just a little bit that.

O

um The this is what the state looks at and takes forward um through a very uh interesting cycle.

O

Which mary will um review with you on what this letter means and what it, what it doesn't mean.

O

um Because it is kind of a complex process, it's not as straightforward as one might think so. Bear.

O

With us, as we go through this kind of tediousness of what this letter is and what it means and how.

O

We move forward with it so with that I'm going to turn over to mary lane who's our planning manager.

O

um She's been here with us before, I believe in front of this commission, but I'm not sure but.

O

If not, this is mary, our planning manager. Thank you. um We come here every year about this time.

R

But I'm going to be a little more thorough with new members, so bear with me if some of it seems.

R

Pretty basic so today we'll be going over. What is the ctp, the consolidated transportation program.

R

Going to review the process do the highlights of last year's letter, which you just received.

R

Typically, we work from last year's letter. We never it's been years and years since.

R

Created new letters, that's again a new board. You can do what you want, but that has typically been.

R

What we've done and we're typically consistent in our priorities, with little tweaks here and.

R

There also the timing and next steps and then any questions that you have and that's really.

O

Important that we have similar letters from year after year um that has really gained us a lot of.

O

Traction in the last seven or eight years, having that consistency in what carroll county is putting.

O

Forward as its priorities, unfortunately, road projects, especially at the state and federal.

O

Level literally move at an iceberg pace. I think a snail is definitely faster. So you know we are.

O

Talking decades in the making for these roadways, especially if it's a new roadway being constructed.

O

By the state and additional capacity enhancing also again, these move very slowly through the.

O

Process because they're big big budget items, okay, so first, what is the ctp and very simply.

R

It is maryland's six-year capital budget for transportation projects. It contains programs.

R

And projects across all mdot departments, similar to your cip, but at the state level.

R

um Each year a county should submit their letter for transportation priorities to mdoc to the.

R

Secretary of mdot by april 1st, the list of state transportation priorities includes state highways.

R

And roads streetscape projects, those are for the towns county trails as well as transit priorities.

R

So timing and coordination- this is where we are right now, january and february february.

R

um Our department works with county agencies, as well as the towns to update the letter. We.

R

Work with public works, economic development and recreation and parks, and all eight municipalities.

R

um Basically, we remove completed projects. New issues can be raised, but typically, as I said, few.

R

Changes are usually made from the previous letter, then in march, we'll be back before you either once.

R

Or twice, depending on how many times you want to review it for your approval of the letter and then.

R

By april 1st, the county submits the letter to the state with delegation signatures, and this is also.

R

Important to try to get the delegation on board with what your priorities are. We work with mike.

R

To get those and we we've been successful in getting them in on time and some jurisdictions.

O

Do it differently some jurisdictions just have the county executive sign off on it? Some have.

O

The complete county council or county board of commissioners depending and then others like.

O

Ourselves also work with the delegation to get their support because they're, the ones who can.

O

Lobby to move these projects ahead during the budgetary cycle for the state and if you ever.

R

Do want to see other counties, letters they're all on the mdot website from the previous year. So then.

R

In september, once the secretary gets your letter, they work throughout until september and october.

R

Preparing the draft ctp and then they participate in, what's called the county tour meetings, which.

R

Has been confusing in the past, which is why I put this picture here: it's not a tour. Nobody gets in.

R

A bus or anything they're touring around the state- and this is, I guess it was 2019. The commissioners.

R

As well as that time, I think it was greg slater and his department heads and then you can't see.

R

But in the audience are many of the town elected officials, so we have two things: pre-tour, which is.

O

More the staff level, where we talk with our mdot counterparts and then towards more the elected.

O

Officials um come to that as well as, as mary said, each modality from state maryland department.

O

Of transportation, so you have state highway administration, federal aviation ports, so even.

O

Though things aren't directly in carol, um they still talk about all modalities across the board.

R

And then um january of the following year after that fall, the secretary of mdot presents the ctp.

R

To the legislature and then in april, the legislature approves it for the upcoming.

R

Fiscal year, so um if you can go to the next slide, basically for us, it's a 14-month process where we.

R

Are now with the january february presentation that is for our fy24 letter, but if you go around.

R

The circle to um in between january and april, that is them working on the fy 23 approval, so.

R

And it's in on did I say that correctly 21st we're going to be working on flight 24., you're, preparing.

A

Right we're preparing fy24 we're preparing fy24, but the legislature is considering the efforts. Yes,.

R

And so basically for us, it's a 14-month, continuous process.

R

um I'll jump right into last year's letter unless you had any questions about the process.

R

um Last year's letter we had five um high weight capacity.

R

Enhancement projects number one was maryland 97.

R

um And I'll there'll be maps later in the presentation, so I'll just go through these quickly.

R

um Then maryland 32 third priority maryland 26, maryland 140 corridor improvements and then.

R

Maryland 27 quarter improvements down in the mount airy area, so the first priority last year was.

R

Maryland 27 from bachmann's valley, road to 140 and I'm not going to read the project's scope. But you.

R

Can see the project scope what's important to hear was last year this was moved from the number two.

R

Priority to the number one priority by the county, commissioners, and the reason for that was that.

R

First breakout project, so for all these capacity enhancing projects, the thought of getting the.

R

Entire project is pretty crazy, so we we provide breakout projects for the state to consider and.

R

There's been some success in that particularly this year, so a project isn't even eligible to.

R

Be in the ctp unless it has a feasibility study, so we kept year after year saying maryland. 97 was our.

R

Second priority, but then it wasn't even eligible to be in so we moved it to number one and said.

R

That our breakout project that we were requesting was a corridor study, a feasibility study and the.

R

Good news is, the requested study is being funded currently by the infrastructure, investment and.

R

Jobs act, increases and 500 000 has been included in the proposed ctp and I'll just share with you.

A

During staffing during the discussions, that's huge because we got a lot of pushback from.

A

Specific delegates that we needed to maintain um the priority list, as is because, if we move things.

A

Around then nobody knows what our priorities are and everybody's going to get frustrated.

A

The fact is, in order for this study to take place, we had to move it up to priority number one.

A

And even though the delegation said yeah, that may not be so. This is telling us it is so, and we are.

A

Getting funded to have this study being done uh because we moved it up to priority number one.

A

um You know we we don't want to just move things from out of nowhere into this priority list, but.

A

There has to be a strategy moving forward and uh it's got to be all of us saying why this.

A

Is so important I mean in my area, 3226 are very important, but for the county this was.

A

Much not much. This was more important to kick start than you know, 32-26. So.

R

So that feasibility study will begin linda and I are participating public works is, I believe, the.

R

Department of economic development so there'll be plenty of county participation on that study.

R

um And again, this is a map just showing the boundaries of the ultimate project.

R

So the second priority which had for years been the first priority.

R

Is maryland 32 from maryland, 26 south to the carroll county line.

R

um This again has been one of the county's highest priorities for many years in 2018 mdot conducted.

R

Again, with county participation, what's called a planning and environmental linkages, pal study.

R

Which identified potential improvement? Concepts to address identified needs at specific locations.

R

Basically, what they found was the ultimate improvement of that road would not be needed.

R

In the time frame the I believe it was a 30-year time frame and they did use current development.

R

They used what was in the freedom plan as as well as other information from us. It was in found that.

R

The ultimate improvements would not be necessary, so they identified some breakout projects and the.

R

Second, breakout project that we identified in our priority letter the breakout project for design.

R

Funding from 2nd street to main street more good news, the design for this project is being.

R

Fully funded with the iija increases and has been included in the proposed ctp. So that's another win.

R

That's a definite good news story, yeah and so on the left side you'll see the all the boundaries.

R

The ultimate boundaries of the project, but then on the right is the breakout project.

R

So the third priority- and this has been for many years- is maryland 26 from 32 east to the reservoir.

R

um In prior years, the project was to widen the roadway from four to six lanes again, a sha.

R

Study was conducted in 2020 that found that that ultimate improvement wasn't feasible or necessary.

R

So that study also identified some breakout projects and last year's letter identified a.

R

Breakout project that had been included in that study so you'll see that in last year's letter.

R

And there's the boundaries of that project.

R

So the fourth priority is maryland 140 corridor improvements from the county line to just about.

R

Kay's mill road, the ultimate improvements include a four-lane divided highway, a full interchange at.

R

Maryland 91 with additional auxiliary lane, east of 91 and access management improvements, an initial.

R

Breakout project has been identified for several years, which is design funding for the intersection.

R

And that is the jug handle design for westbound traffic, and this project is now funded for full.

R

Design and on the next page, if you're wondering what a jug handle is, I included that map. It's.

R

Basically, as you're going westbound making a right to go left, they don't want left-handing.

O

Turn movements because that's where there's been a lot of conflicts and crashes. So this is really.

O

To have a continuous flow of sorts and without having that left turn movement um even with it.

O

Being a left air signalized, there's still a lot of conflict um there. Our commissioner from new.

C

Jersey should be an expert on that. Absolutely, yes, right-hand turns, don't think about or anything.

R

Yeah so that is funded for design and then the last capacity um enhancement project was added.

R

Just last year, at the request of mount airy, these are maryland 27 corridor improvements.

R

From the carroll county line to glacier road, this includes widening of the roadway to a consistent.

R

Four lane some of it is four lanes as you're aware um dedicated turn lanes, signalized traffic control.

R

Boulevard separation of lanes and controlled intersections to allow pedestrian crossings.

R

um There were no breakout projects at this point identified or prioritized and again as.

R

I said this was at the request of mount airy, so the commissioners added it in last year.

R

And there's the boundaries of that project.

R

So there's also in the letter you'll see two urban reconstruction. What's called streetscape projects.

R

Maryland 851 in sykesville and maryland 31 in new windsor. These have been in four years, there's been.

R

Some gradual project or progress made on some aspects of them, but they are not yet funded.

R

And these are our last two towns to receive streetscape or what we're calling urban.

O

Reconstruction projects, the most recent one that's been complete, is maryland. 30.

O

And hampstead, which has now been taken over by the town and is main street hamstead.

O

It's no longer maryland business 30 once that streetscape was complete and that's because of.

O

The bypass when they received the bypass that was the deal that the town made at the time.

R

So for the sykesville maryland 851, the concept was completed years ago.

R

But it is not funded for design. The road classification was upgraded to.

R

um Major collector, to make it more feasible or more likely to get federal funding that.

R

Was a few years ago, it's currently funded for drainage improvements and they're, coordinating.

R

With the county on water and sewer upgrades, but again the streetscape hasn't been funded.

R

And there's those that's the um boundaries of that we have been working with the townsend. We.

K

Linda and I and our liaison have a meeting with the town um about the letter to see if there's.

R

Anything else they indicated they might want to revise some language for this year and we sent.

O

Information out to all of our towns um asking you know, is there anything they see? How do they.

O

Want to participate and we're also meeting with manchester as well they've reached on so yes, they.

O

Like have some discussions as well now, part of 851 is howard county. This would not we're.

R

Not requesting correct this is just in the carol section right. Have we even had a conversation with.

A

Howard county, not regarding 851. um No, we have not because um the feeder going from 32 down.

A

That's all howard county until you get to cross the bridge, but that's 8 51.. um I wonder if.

A

You can reach out to them and see if they can, if we can leverage them as well. uh You know because.

A

It's it's it's one road, it just happens to split the two counties. That's a great idea! Why thank you.

O

And that's actually a really important point is that roads like that, that we have this kind.

O

Of cross jurisdictions is really important and we will go ahead and reach out to talk to them about.

O

This as well, and uh just to clarify you've you've, uh you mentioned you reach out to the.

B

Municipalities, so I don't know when the last time you had contact with folks in mount airy.

B

But if you're having any issues there or you know they have not gotten back to us yet they received.

R

Our request several weeks ago, but we didn't give them a deadline. They're probably talking about it,.

R

um And again they had success last year, beginning 27 added, so we definitely do work with them. Thank.

R

You um so the second streetscape project that has been in for many years is new windsor main street.

R

Again as most streetscape projects, sidewalks enhancements to bike, ped, accessibility and.

R

Road improvements, roadway improvements: this is currently needing to be coordinated with.

R

The replacement of water lines and we're waiting to get an update from new windsor regarding the.

R

Progress of that, but last year's letter noted that they had been working with sha and that's.

O

Really common, a lot of our municipalities have tried to time some of their underground.

O

Infrastructure improvements and repairs and replacements with these streetscape projects.

O

So it doesn't make sense to come in after and dig it up if it's already going to be dug up.

O

Let's go in and see if there's any repairs that need to be made, so this is very common.

R

Again, the map showing the boundaries of this project, so um I'm just going to very quickly.

R

Talk about transit, we include this in the letter, but it reflects your um annual transportation plan.

R

Which stacy was here several weeks ago talking about and if you have a request, you'll have a.

R

Public hearing on february, 23rd and ours, our request always reflects what she's asked for so.

R

um This year, it's operating funding, transit facility improvements that are security related.

R

For replacement buses, 10 replacement tablets and preventative maintenance funding. But again that's.

R

Pretty much outside of we include it, but it's really part of the atp and you'll hear this also.

O

Referred to as our lots, funding, locally operated transit systems, if you hear lots, that's also what.

O

Our our trailblazer isn't so the last I believe the last are our trail projects. These two again.

R

Have been in for years, we will be talking with jeff about keeping the governor frank.

R

Brown trail and it has been in the same status for many years since the readiness center was.

R

Even being discussed, there's security concerns about it and um I don't believe, there's been any.

R

Progress made, but we'll talk to jeff on that about that, as well as the westminster community trail.

R

um There's there hasn't been anything I believe this year, that's been done.

R

So additional concerns that the commissioners wanted to include every year near the end of the.

R

Letter is other priorities, although they don't want them to be their top priorities, which is.

R

Maryland 140 from sullivan to market and that's the ultimate project that they're talking about.

R

There also safety concerns at both maryland 31 and medford road, as well as maryland, 26 and johnsville.

R

Road and then last year, public works requested that we mentioned the maryland 140 turnaround.

R

For the northern landfill safety enhancements, they do these towards the end and why those.

O

Other priorities are at the top is because the consolidated transportation plan top priorities.

O

Are reserved for projects over a certain dollar amount? I want to say what's: 5 million dollars.

O

um They have to meet that threshold. The rest of these projects can come out of other pots.

O

Of funding, I'm resurfacing safety improvements, those types of funding sources through mdot, so.

O

That's why they're kind of reserved for the end? We don't want these to be muddled in with our.

O

Top priorities for those major capacity enhancing projects. Nonetheless, these are still of concern.

O

And this is a good way to get mdot's attention on these roadways. Okay and the last thing that.

R

You'll see on the last page of last year's letter, it was in for the first time last year um the.

R

Emc the board included language at the request of bmc, the baltimore reach regional transportation.

R

Board supporting coordinated efforts to identify and support priorities across.

R

Jurisdictional boundaries and conveying to mdot the multi-jurisdictional approach to developing.

R

Priorities: kind of going back to the conversation we were having about working with howard county.

R

So it was some general language worked out by bmc that the jurisdictions were asked to include in.

R

Their letters, five of the region's jurisdictions did include the suggested language in the letters.

R

And carol was one of them yeah and that's really one of the main tenets of the brtb baltimore.

O

Regional transportation board is supporting each other with projects, especially ones of.

O

Regional implications, so next steps based on any input we get from you today regarding any changes.

R

You want to see in priorities or additions or anything else. We will continue working.

R

On redrafting the priority letter, we will present it to you for further discussion. I would probably.

R

Think it's going to be two meetings in march, we'll bring you a draft letter and then, if you.

R

Have any more comments? We can come back for its approval. That's a lot of times what we've done.

R

um And then we will have mike fowler get the signatures of the delegation and we.

R

Will transmit it to the secretary by or you will transmit it to the secretary by april 1st.

R

So that is the okay um bridge bridge projects, the the state evaluates our bridges for maintenance.

C

Replacement et cetera, et cetera, the county stays out of that. No, we put those in the tip.

O

Which is uh all these little another acronym? That's another funding source, that's federally.

O

Federal funds- and so we put in our tip every year- and we do amendments too- that we work.

O

With public works on that, but that is what covers our bridge and bridge replacement so so is route.

C

91 part of that, the two bridges. I know a lot of people are concerned about that's going to be a.

C

Pretty massive deep detour for a long period of time when the two bridges on 91 are worked on.

O

I'd have to look at our tip improvement program to see if the maryland 91 bridge is a part of.

O

That it's not part of the jug handle, but it might be a separate section within the tip.

O

Improvement and- and that's was going to be- my next question is: do we try to piggyback some of those.

C

For widening of 91 or the jug handle or whatever, and I don't know how the state perceives that.

O

um So that would be something I want to confer with public works on because they're, the main agency, that's responsible for working with the tip program.

O

Incentive repair right but they're state roads. So the there's that we don't have.

F

Any responsibility for the bridges on state roads yeah just so you know and and then the.

F

um Just what the county, so the um county is responsible for bridges that are under 20 feet.

F

um For the line for all of the funding and most of the funding for bridges that are over 20 feet, long.

F

On our roads um are uh there's that's why they're in that tip program and they're federally funded.

F

To a great extent right, so yeah yeah, I just particularly concerned about 91, because the.

C

Detour will probably affect some county roads and, and it's it's going to be a long period of.

C

Time, I'm glad to see their piggy back in at least they're, not closing it doing one and then closing.

C

And doing the other but uh but yeah and then I didn't know if we try to like. I say if we.

C

Wanted that section widened if we've looked at the design of that and said you know if you're.

C

Going to replace the bridge make it for the future. Certainly I'm just curious, certainly a valuable.

F

Conversation to have, and um maybe next fall uh in at the tour when you're sitting there with.

F

I don't know the secretary of the new secretary's name. Thank you. You can bring that up too yeah yeah.

D

And you're in discussions of the municipalities right now about some of their yes, all right.

D

Because I know that that uh union bridge or the mayor of union bridge had mentioned to me.

D

That they have- and I mean a project with the road they'd like to do and of course, tony town with the.

D

The bypass is always a uh it's always a big one. um I will- and I I thought this was information.

D

Only to a psychologists for not having more information for you guys today, but I will get.

D

uh Information uh from union bridge for you- um and I will also get some additional information.

D

From tawny town for you as well- and I know the the bypass has been an ongoing thing with tawny town.

D

um But it's been 50 60 years that it's been talked about, and I know from from that perspective that.

D

You know having having it somewhere, you know listed somewhere, even if it's not a priority.

D

At this particular moment helps uh tony or union bridge for that matter, knowing that it's listed.

D

Somewhere gives them, uh you know, weight to proceed after the practice. I know over the.

D

Course of the last year, tawny town has gone ahead and purchased some property. That would.

D

Fall under the bypass corridor, so they are, you know both towns are genuinely uh interested in.

D

Pursuing the project, so I just want to make sure that those are on the radar as well and.

D

If I remember correctly, it's one of the roads that actually goes straight into union bridge.

J

Okay, I think that yeah, I think, you're right, that's that's their main street. Basically right.

D

Okay right and because it's I think, it's a county road that goes straight into uh it's um 75. for.

R

Shepherd's mill, let me let me double check on that t intersection right there by the bridge that.

F

It's 77, that's yeah, it's main street and um maybe it's 75, then okay, maybe sorry I just wanted to.

D

Make sure that those are at least you know brought up because again, you know tiny town is serious.

D

About pursuing the bypass union bridge is serious about you know again, I forget exactly what the.

D

Issues with that road, I think it's some something to do with the maintenance of the road. I think.

D

But I will get the information, absolutely that'd, be great. Thank you and- and I want to personally.

C

Thank tony town for doing one of the first streetscapes and coordinating with their water.

C

Line a few engineers, kibler construction, cj miller and a lot of citizens learned a lot. Yes, they did.

O

That was you're correct one of the very first big main street projects. We've done in the counties.

C

Rough in some ways, a lot of good stuff that came out of it in terms of learning. In the the end.

D

Product so yep, okay, what else both are called 75, 70 75.. So any other conversation. This good.

A

Information- it's a so our next steps will be to continue to work with our agency partners.

O

And the towns on making the updates um when we meet again, I I we'd like you to consider, are.

O

These you're still your top priorities. Is there anything else you'd like to see um in this letter.

O

That we're missing or something that you feel, has already passed and should be removed and.

O

Then we will redraft that and come back to you for final approval and sending it to the delegation.

K

Okay- um and I don't know um in in the past- we've sent the delegation um uh draft. I don't.

O

Know how you all would like to also consider working actually in this? Oh no! It's not yes! Yes,.

O

Beforehand, so they oh yeah, we send them a draft typically beforehand for them to you.

O

Know right peruse and then go from there, but we'll. So if you want to do that, maybe.

F

After the next time, yeah your priorities- yeah not not now not now. This is for our.

A

Edification consumption and then decision so uh so appreciate the edification as this time. Thank.

A

You so much absolutely thank you very much have a great day. Okay, I will see you later.

A

Procurement, um we have three procurements, uh three ford explorers a mill and pave.

A

Parking lot and entry road at union mills and pfas engineering support services.

A

Are we not being presented or how are we? This is the way we're going to start doing this. If, if you.

F

Continue to like it just batch them all, together with one recommended motion to approve them.

F

They're, all in the budget, they're all approved budgetary items. No additional funds are necessary.

C

And we don't have to do it today. I think we need to reconsider how we're doing these. This is a lot.

C

Of important things and uh no offense to length of our meetings, we spent a half hour talking.

C

About 10 grand in interest, I think we can spend 15 minutes talking about purchases in the future.

C

I understand I gotta get. I got to get you know, union. You know some some level.

F

Of that's what I say we yeah. We need to talk about it when everybody's here and.

C

um So I I think so one thing I'd like to say yeah, please about this.

C

We should talk as a group when we're legally allowed to talk as a group, an individual trying.

C

To change the agenda after it's established is wrong. I haven't done it. I've almost said.

C

A bad word: I've complained about it, um but it's just. uh These are very important topics and and.

C

I'm okay with one motion today, but they're so different and uh I think they uh definitely.

D

um You should have discussion well, commissioner, if you want we'll take them one at a time, then how's that well, it's nobody's here to talk about them. So.

C

I've read it so yeah: let's do the I'm talking about the future. Okay, but let I mean yeah.

B

I I support the effort to try to streamline things um and I am prepared to make motions.

B

On items seven and eight today, however, uh I would request that we table item nine for a later date.

B

Where we can speak with the director- because I do have questions and concerns about this pfas.

B

Issue and then on that particular item, those that that money is at a reserve contingency, not not.

B

Budgeted but again I I want to voice my support for trying to streamline things, but I I can.

B

Completely understand your concern, commissioner, kyler, that these things are important, you're right.

B

um But uh did you come in on cue or something or what what happened there? Psychic? That really was.

A

I mean, unless you heard it from outside, I did not text him. Okay, that was that was pretty impressive.

A

Though walking in um anyway so I'm prepared to move forward, but uh so welcome other comments.

C

We have a motion for two of them yeah. I think we probably have to make this separately, but yes, sir.

A

So, okay, so I have a motion to move forward and approve the awards for items. Seven, which is.

A

Purchasing three ford explorers um from apple ford for the amount of hundred ninety three thousand.

A

33.59 and then I have a motion to accept item 8, which is union mills, homestead, paving project.

A

And is there a cost associated with this uh thirty nine thousand nine hundred dollars.

A

Okay, I apologize where'd. I miss that. Let's say it's on the. I think it's the third page, oh.

A

Yeah because I'm confused, because I got pfas.

D

Is on there somewhere further back up in the package, so you have the you: have the.

D

First page, which is the the motion, then you have age unless you're right then.

D

You have the explorers and you have union mills yeah, I'm missing it. That's all right.

D

You're missing it, I can you want to copy? No, it's all good. I mean as long as we're.

A

Yeah I was missing this okay, the paving for uh 39 900. So I have a motion for those two.

A

Is there a second for those two? Second, I got a motion. I got a second. Is there any discussion.

A

You haven't seen none all in favor. um Okay, now with motion. Excuse me with uh item number, nine.

A

Pfas engineering, thank you. Your pfas engineering support services. um Chris. Would you like to come.

A

Up and uh walk us through this and go from there. I can certainly go through a background for you.

S

Or if you have specific questions happen to answer this, so I'm happy to go either way. You, like I mean.

B

If you, if you up to the other commission, I mean, I think, you've done a good job of trying to explain.

B

To us, this is a growing issue. It could then it the county. In fact, I live within mount airy and we all.

B

Received letters a couple weeks ago about the the parts per million content he fast in the water.

B

My concern with this issue here and the funding of these engineering projects.

B

Is where, where does this end? Is this going to ever stop once it starts.

B

We're not budgeted for this so right. So the answer is, we don't know. That's that's part.

S

Of the problem right, so the epa is working on developing regulations. Md is going to follow.

S

Suit, but what they've indicated is that we need to treat this as a a public health concern and and.

S

Look to start addressing it and the immediate issue that we have to address is that we have.

S

Ongoing engineering design going on at the public safety training center and as part of that, we want.

S

To make sure that those engineering documents take into consideration the contamination on.

S

Site and so that's where we need the specialized engineering expertise that tetra tech would bring.

S

To the table, so that's an immediate need that we need those folks to assist us with finalizing.

S

These construction drawings, so they can move forward and we don't make a bad situation worse.

C

And and we need to keep moving forward regardless of it's hard to judge if we're going to meet epas.

C

uh Designed and or specs or whatever, when they haven't done it yet, but we need to do that. Yes,.

S

We need to get this moving. Yes, yes, we have uh grant funding that goes towards the site.

S

Construction that requires construction work in fy24, so we're rapidly trying to get those.

S

Engineering drawings, complete and the issue is, is that it's around that same time. We expect the epa.

S

To come out with regulations any day now, I've heard to march is is probably when we're going.

S

To see them so we need to know what and figure out what the implications of those regulations.

S

Might be and make sure that we're not doing anything detrimental on that site where we.

S

May have to do work in the future, to remediate it and where it says, transfer from from the reserve.

A

For contingencies, uh and no additional funds will be required is that a separate action.

A

That needs to be taken place, or is it just a transfer? No I've no separate actions necessary.

C

Okay, so so the money's already there for this, it's just being slid around yeah. Yes, in technical terms,.

C

I think we have to use that in budget deliberations from now.

F

On slid around okay, there you go. um Does that make you comfortable.

B

I again, given the letters that people are receiving everybody in the town of mount airy.

B

Got the same letter, I guess you could reliably add this to the list of things that, as the board of.

B

Commissioners, we're going to have to start getting in front of I'm not comfortable with the whole.

B

With the whole issue right now, because I don't feel as though I know.

B

What the true issues are the totality of it where it stops where it begins. How much money is this.

B

Going to cost to fix this problem, so I think that's probably something that we we need to.

B

Talk about in a future date, if you're telling me that you need to get this money allocated.

B

For these engineering plans, in order for us to take advantage of a grant, so there's some time.

B

Possessive aspect to this: yes, there is yeah, but I think I think I can see sort of the heads nodding.

B

I mean this sounds like this is something with this project again, we need to move okay, some.

C

Sort of I don't, I hate the term task force, but I mean just some sort of working group on this.

H

Whole issue, because when people get letters in the mail saying, hey guess what your water.

B

Is might not be safe? Those a lot of people are getting these letters. Yes, and it's a big concern.

A

I I agree with you: um it's it's hard to comprehend it's hard to understand, because there's still so.

A

Much discussion about it, you know, where is the end in sight and all that kind of stuff.

A

um So yeah, I would like to get more understanding as we move forward um and also agree.

A

um With you, commissioner, kyler doing this blankly, you know is a little difficult.

A

And the procurement process is not very time consuming. You know when they're at the table.

A

Discussing it, so I think we can. We can package it together, three or four or five whatever, but.

A

Having the expertise, because I'm not an expert on what truck is used for what and typical questions.

A

What are we doing with the old trucks? Are they going up for auction? How long they've been used.

A

Thank you for keeping that truck in place for 25 years, when it should have only had a life cycle.

A

Of 10., so if you don't want to do a batch, which is totally your decision, this is the direction.

F

I was given last week. We could change it back to the way we do it. I don't yeah. I would recommend.

F

That we change it back to the way we were doing it, where it's divided by department, rather than.

F

By procurement, because it's more efficient for staff that way because staff may have the same.

F

Staff member may have a grant at the same time that they have a procurement, and so that way you.

F

Know that those staff members can come in and they can go out and you can hear you know and.

F

So if that's okay, if you want to go back to the streamlined version yeah it, it takes more of their.

C

Time than it does ours, but I think it's justified and in this case, if you wouldn't have been paying.

C

Attention and showed up this probably would have been tabled for a week. Oh you know so we're on.

C

It so it's I'm I'm sorry for your time, but I'm willing to do it and I think it it really helped.

F

We're fine so we'll just leave it. The way it was yep is that, okay, is that the consensus I think.

D

Yes, I'm willing to go along with that. That's fine! Today we didn't save any time. I mean you.

C

Know I understand yeah, it's just I get confused when nobody's sitting there and I can have that.

A

Conversation especially when we're procuring things, sometimes we procure things and it may.

A

Be a one or two year license and I'm like okay, why not do it for five years or why not have that.

A

um Conversation, um I want to say I'm so agnostic to it, but because I do like that.

A

Interaction but I'm going to go along with what folks want on this one. So yes, okay, sounds like.

C

It's you want to make the motion on this this one. Oh, no, that's, okay, [laughter] sure.

D

uh Move uh to award the contract for a pfas engineering support services in the amounts.

D

Of fifty thousand dollars- and I assume I have to second it second, you do yes, sir.

A

You do we have a motion, we have a second. Is there any further discussion on this.

A

Seen here, none all in favor, aye, aye, aye. Okay! Thank you. Thank you, sir. Thank you chris uh critically,.

A

Appearing like yeah, no, is there any uh comments on the phone? I've got no one waiting online, sir okay,.

A

I wonder why you come on up um for open admin. Does anybody have anything for open admin.

A

The only just the normal finding things, the only comment I do want to make is week after next in.

A

Two weeks from today on february 23rd at 6 pm, we are going to have a public hearing in the reagan.

A

Room uh room 003 downstairs for those that want to attend. um We will also have it uh online. I believe.

A

Excuse me having a public hearing online people: yes, sir okay, so people who want to call in.

F

Will it be able to be hybrid chris, I can make I can make that happen. Okay, thank you.

A

So it will be both uh hybrid and in person, and it has to do with uh the public hearing.

A

Regarding a potential moratorium for six months on solar uh projects in agricultural properties,.

A

Is that close enough and the agricultural zone? Okay? Okay, let's uh move to.

A

Week number one: let's see monday february, 13th is maryland association, counties.

A

Rural county coalition bill review canada, commissioner kyler and I will be.

A

Attending commissioner, gordon at 7 pm we'll be attending the westminster city council meeting.

A

On tuesday happy valentine's day, there will be carroll county carroll, community college board of.

A

Trustees mean where we will all be participating in the john b yingling dining room on wednesday.

A

February 15th, commissioner kyler and I'll be uh at mako at 5 pm. There's a carroll community college.

A

Board of trustees meeting where commissioner carlo will be attending and at 7 pm the emergency.

A

Services, advisory council, where commissioner kern will be attending on thursday february 16th.

A

We have presentation of bus patrol program sheriff luis and his team will be coming in.

A

To share with us about that program, we have a request: approval for annual plan.

A

For fiscal year, 2023 kill county bureau of housing displayed, wait to be displayed for 45 days.

F

We have to, we have to publicly make aware that the plan is out and available for for.

F

uh Public comment, the annual plan, but what is the annual plan? This is the housing annual.

F

Plans, oh okay, yeah, it's a housing annual plan. Yeah, that's going to be up. Okay got it.

A

um And then we have rezoning 228, aldersburg investors llc and then, if there's any procurement.

A

Or personal care services changing that so we'll be changing that. Okay um in the afternoon, we have.

A

Updates from land resource management from shepard pratt from human services, programs, carroll county.

A

From the circuit court and also then the state's attorney's office, I thought.

A

We were limiting to this before these were previously scheduled, so um you know: do you.

F

Want the five, I think I fear that the state's attorney and the judge may take a long time.

F

So I think we just okay, I would suggest you just do four, okay, and not do um mr hein yep.

A

um On saturday homes for our troops key ceremony, where commissioner garen will be participating.

A

Saturday morning sunday, commissioner vigliotti has the podcast and I I apologize. What did we.

C

Say about item six through ten we're eliminating some or not we'll be eliminating some just numbers.

F

Number six we'll take out number six. Unless you want it, I mean I just think the state's attorney.

F

And the sheriff I mean the state's attorney and the judge judge will be rather long. I'm thinking.

A

On monday february 20th, the county offices will be closed and observance of president's day.

A

uh District five night in annapolis, commissioner kyler is scheduled to attend and if others are.

A

Attending just like vivian sent everyone an email with the time, location and things I.

A

Will not be there. Vivian sent everyone an email with the time and location.

C

Oh for that, for district five right, yeah yeah uh yeah, I've rsvp'd, I'm fine and then mako.

A

Rural kind of coalition bill review, uh I will not be participating in that at 6, 30., correct.

A

So you may or may not see, I don't see how I will I'll be so it may just theory. Neither one of us.

A

Not a bad thing on tuesday planning and zoning commission, commissioner.

A

Accordion will be attending down zero zero. Three commissioner, gordon kyler, will be.

A

Participating in the veterans advisory meeting at 2 pm that day and then commissioner kyler.

A

Will be participating, the reese volunteer fire company meeting.

A

On wednesday, commissioner kyler and I have mako on thursday, the 23rd currently what is scheduled.

A

Annual transportation plan fy24 annual transportation plan- that's if needed, that's the.

F

um The the transit plan- and you remember, um stacy graham, came a couple three weeks ago: okay and.

F

um So if we get requests for the public hearing got it, that will be that okay.

F

But we should know before that, whether we'll have it and then a follow-up if needed. If we don't.

A

Make a decision next week on the rezoning case, number 228. down in eldersburg investors, 10 45.

A

That is nothing, that's no longer right, yeah! That's the public hearing moratorium right.

D

That's the that was the mistake. That's a mistake. Miss print so that afternoon.

A

Currently, we have scheduled the arc, mr road carol, soil conservation, district.

A

Carroll county youth services bureau, miss lynn, davis and university of maryland extension. Those.

A

Four are scheduled at this time: three more on the other and there's three more on this side.

A

Of public schools, rape, crisis intervention services, carroll county and flying colors of.

A

Success yeah. We may need to modify this. You feel you're in any need to hear from the public schools.

A

I'm not sure why we need to hear from public schools, since we just said the purpose of these.

F

Is a 10-15 minute update or overview of what you, whoever you are? You know, rape, crisis or whatever.

F

Do you feel you need that from the school system? My thought personally would be to.

D

Because we're going to have the public hearing and that's going to take up the late afternoon into.

D

The evening, my suggestion would be not to have any of these at all this particular afternoon.

F

Or to move them to the morning, if I don't know we have to if they'll fit in the morning, sure yeah.

F

Two of the three things all at the moment, all you really have is the legislative liaison.

F

That day I mean here from the public hearing from public schools. It is not necessarily a bad.

A

Thing to get them in front of us to talk about the numbers and that kind of stuff, but I mean that's, I.

A

I know that, um but it's more geared for all of us being on simpson music. So I'm going to defer it to.

A

My colleagues on the right and left- and I think we need to be cautious.

C

If we have said out loud that we wanted to see everyone, we start excluding people.

C

um My little feelings would get hurt: oh okay, yeah, but I, if we don't care, we don't care, but.

C

um Now my suggestion is not to hear from them at all, just not on this particular day. No, I know.

C

But and but uh commissioner rothstein's saying maybe not at all and I'm okay with either but.

C

And- and this is two weeks out so now's a good time to make the decision yep.

F

It was just one I thought you could cut out if you wanted to, but um but if, but that was only I I mean.

C

I don't care you, could you could have them in the morning if the people were available, I'm agnostic.

B

About moving them around, but I do feel as though a good idea to have people continue to come in front.

B

Of us- and I think when you give people 15 minutes, you sort of force them to condense, some of their.

B

Thoughts and that might be beneficial to us in the long run, at least we hope that's the hope.

F

That's the hope, so you want to try to move items five through whatever 11 to the morning. So the.

C

Consensus has moved two to the morning and we'll push the others out to the next day, yeah. That is.

F

How many you said two, no, I said: do you want to move them to the morning? Oh, I meant all of.

C

Them, oh, I thought you said earlier. You thought two would fit you think more than that. Oh yeah, there's.

F

Nothing in there there's only. You only have the legislative liaison on that morning, because the.

A

Other things are if needed, and they probably will not happen almost assuredly, no need for the annual.

F

Transportation plan and um and and the discussion decision, if you have it uh on the rezoning on 228.

F

I wouldn't think that would take it's just that we're going to have it the week before.

A

It's being presented a week before I said yes, I mean I've, you know maintained what I said clear.

D

The afternoon, if we can move them elsewhere to the morning, yeah yep, okay, okay, 6 p.m, as shared earlier.

A

There'll be a public hearing on solar moratorium downstairs in the reagan: room, zero, zero, three.

A

I will not be participating in the carroll county, equal justice forum, and I don't expect tyler.

A

Either since we'll be in the right other public hearing, nothing scheduled on friday saturday.

A

On sunday february 26th, commissioner kyler has the podcast. I need a motion to recess for 12 minutes.

A

We will reconvene okay. Second, any discussion on all in favor, aye, aye.