Carroll County, MD Board of License Commissioners, 13 Apr 2022

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From YouTube: Board of License Commissioners, April 13, 2022

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https://www.carrollcountymd.gov/government/boards-commissions/board-of-license-commissioners-liquor-board/

A

um I have a question for inspector um the photograph. It looks like there's a beer and.

A

A martini margarita, correct, so margaritas, no, it was a martini. What was it well? She said it was.

B

National margarita day so she ordered she said she wanted a margarita. So.

A

Difficulty in translation- it's not really important. I was just.

A

uh I just didn't know that morgan I just now had alex yeah, that's it that would be gross.

C

That's possibly correct, you were gonna order, one weren't you and at the time that the policy.

A

Was no vertical licenses correct, so maddie? uh I understand she just came back from surgery and.

A

Probably wasn't in tip-top shape. um Well, it's good that she knows it's a criminal.

A

Offense to serve underage so I'm sure that has comes from you and comes from her training.

A

um But it's not good that she yeah says she didn't know about the vertical license, which is.

A

A little confusing, but again it could have could be explained by first date. Back after.

A

uh Yeah surgery- and this is your first offense as as you mentioned your first uh non-compliance.

D

Offense, since we had our license back in 2013 was the original. That was my next question. Okay, see.

D

I think this august 2013 was when we opened the first.

D

Location, um that's a long time without an offense. So that's that's commendable.

E

So she's tips are tam's trait trained. Is that correct.

E

um And I guess her excuse was, as the inspector said, she didn't realize, a vertical license.

E

Was for underage, although I'm sure she's had a license.

E

At under 21- and it was very- I can't explain this to you.

E

Do you have a um in-house training program.

D

So um some someone is just hired. What do you do um so? I have a binder.

D

um Which kind of it's kind of nerdy? It describes all the different alcohols and the history behind.

D

It and our recipes for all our cocktails and it does have our policy for carting.

D

And you didn't bring that with you. I did not I'm sorry.

A

Just um just as a point of information, so we have two underage volunteers.

A

Were served, I guess our legal argument could be that that could be two violations.

A

uh Happening simultaneously, then there might be. Another argument is one transaction, but I think.

A

You you should be aware that I think that perhaps the inspector could have charged too sure and.

A

That might cause you to be doubly uh aggressive about enforcing your. You know your policies, there.

D

Understood I do want to say that.

A

I'm familiar with with your your uh your story. It's it's an excellent.

A

Story, it's run well and uh you have a you have a very good record. Thank you. I appreciate that.

F

The next time I come down there and this open parking place in front of you. The store is.

F

Open because every time I get down there- oh boy I get in here, they're close, that's got.

F

Nothing to do with it miss elliott. How was this young, lady 22. and how long she worked for you.

D

Since may so almost a year.

F

And you've, I'm sure you feel she's responsible or you probably wouldn't hire.

F

My question to you, one of the things that it's difficult for me to understand.

F

Has been, but I'm an old man, but it's easy for me to not understand things.

F

The violations for sales to minors.

F

Is when the bartender or the waitress asks for id.

F

And they show him a vertical license. That should be the end of it. I agree and.

F

What I don't understand and I'm not trying to put you on the spot or anybody on the spot.

F

How can we, how can we eliminate that people are well trained.

F

They're responsible and that the establishment does all they can do to train their people.

F

But they'll ask for a id and they'll show them a vertical id.

F

And then serve them, and I I think I can't comprehend that really I can't I can't either.

F

It's just difficult for me to accept that dude. You know: here's! Here's, an establishment in business.

F

For nine years well respected throughout the community and not in the business.

F

Sure they sell alcohol but technically not in the business to really.

F

Just sell alcohol, it's a convenience to their establishment. Just I don't know how we do it. I.

F

I don't know whether it's a result of the education system.

F

Or what it is, but if you, if you tell somebody.

F

Don't do this and it's it's real apparent. It's not like they gotta shift through three or four.

F

Id cards, or something like that, I just don't know it's just a mystery to me. Was there a manager on.

E

Duty that night I was there, I was actually on a phone call I stepped outside, and so so I wish you.

E

Had brought your policy because in your policy, do you have if there's a vertical license presented.

E

That has to be presented to the manager or you have completely no completely no vertical id.

A

Is this a a policy that every employee signs that they've read and understand it.

D

No, but that's a good point, it would be good, I think, to maybe drive the point home a little more.

A

As well as perhaps a sign to the public and that your people can see, we do not accept vertical ids.

D

Yeah- and we have those all around- you- have this right now.

F

You know it's amazing, because a few years ago we had a case in here where the bartender.

F

Came signed her slip as she came on half hour later. She served a person with a vertical id, so.

F

People just do things that normally wouldn't do any other questions. No.

F

It's unfortunate.

F

That these things happen usually happen to the best. If this was a regular occurrence over a.

F

Period of 10 or 15 years, and so on and so forth, it's one thing but you've all heard me say and.

F

That's like a broken record: let's elite is a licensee and she's the one responsible for it.

F

In my opinion, she's excuse me she's done everything that she could to prevent it, but.

A

These things happen so, and I agree if you, uh mr chairman, on that point, yeah, sometimes the licensee.

A

Does what they have to do, what they're supposed to do, and sometimes.

A

They still get caught and brought here.

A

And in this license he has a very good record. Eight successful compliance checks.

A

Since 2016, this is the first offense.

F

Okay, testimony and evidence is hereby closed and.

F

There's anything else, you'd like to say before we discuss the case, no feel free. Thank you. We did a.

B

Follow-Up recheck last week and the establishment passed very well straight. No problems whatsoever.

F

You all weren't run out of town on this rechecker.

F

Okay, testimony analysis closed. Gentlemen. You've heard the testimony of the inspector as well as.

F

The licensee uh nine years in business- and this is the first defense, so I would be.

F

Acceptable to emotion or any discussion, uh I'm uh I'm also acceptable to emotion. I think I've said.

A

Everything I need to say as far as my thoughts go well at this time I mean I could make a motion if.

E

You're, like chairman, yes, sir, first before I I do make a motion. um I do commend you for your record.

E

It's a great establishment. The community is happy to have you there. That's for sure the troubling.

E

Thing, for me is not only did one did, one minor get served, but two minors got served. Perhaps.

E

If you may have been a little diligent of having vertical a picture of vertical license,.

E

In your establishment, so they could actually see what the vertical license looks like.

G

That it might have been prevented, especially if you had it behind the bar someplace, that your.

E

Your bartenders could see it or your servers. That would help. um So with all that said, I do find you.

E

Culpable of sale to miners, I would would not charge you for two I'll charge you for one.

E

And in being consistent, I would charge you three hundred dollars.

F

You've heard the motion I'll second that motion the motion is that we find the licensee.

F

Culpable and assess a fine of three hundred dollars any further discussion on the motion. No.

F

Hearing none all those in favor signal. Five is saying: aye aye opposed. No, so.

F

Ms elliott, we find you culpable and assess a fine of 300, which must be satisfied within.

F

30 days of official notice, by letter of which you will receive.

F

We appreciate your business establishment and wish you the best and.

F

Keep up the good work, and thank you. Unfortunately, this is one of the things that.

F

Born life slips through every now and then we can't do much about it. We do everything we can.

F

Keep up the good work and thank you. Congratulations on a thon establishment. Thank you.

D

And come visit if you can find a parking spot.

F

Okay, we've got some time here.

F

On our business agenda, we're going to skip around a little bit, but the first item on the agenda.

F

Is approval of march minutes from the march 9th board meeting you all should have received them.

F

Any corrections or additions, if not, they will stand approved as presented.

F

The next item is a thank you letter from shriners hospital for the donation.

F

uh For our esteemed former colleague, I'm sorry and a thank you card from sue ant.

F

Excuse me, sir table bob's widow for the donation to the shriners hospital on his behalf.

F

Okay, we're going to skip the next one darren's scheduled to come in here about 2 30.

F

We have a request from papa joe's mexican restaurant to do carryout alcohol sales.

H

And where is papa jitters next forbidden city carol, plaza.

E

In the same one, uh sushi sushi yeah, yeah yeah, I'm good.

G

H

They have, they have had no violations to sailor, monitor.

F

I'll just say my thanks joan to you on behalf of shriners hospital children, for your donation,.

F

In addition to.

F

Zuma's note from the hospital- I guess you sent it to the one in florida or philadelphia. Florida.

F

F

Do you go over the rules and regulations with these people when they, uh I know we got this.

F

Thing here, where they've all initialed it so and so forth. When I deliver the license, I do.

F

Now we've checked one time correct for delivery for delivery on one establishment.

H

uh Yeah, that's only establishment at the time was doing it.

F

So how many do we have now carryout we're probably up to about ballpark delivery, we're at one.

F

This this is for carryout. This is for carry it's not delivered.

F

Do they have to fill out a form similar? No.

F

So, there's no way that we know.

I

Correct what they're doing as far as this business goes.

F

When I thought, when you checked, you could check the tapes.

H

H

I mean I could we could? Yes, if I stopped someone carrying out drinks.

H

The receipts get for delivery. We only have a forum for delivery.

H

And the receipts that we got for one of them is the establishment's registered tapes.

F

Yeah, did we ever discuss that when you do a carryout like this to segregate your your.

A

Registered tapes, I I thought that came up. Didn't I don't I don't want to ask. I don't remember.

F

I thought we were told and I could be wrong, but I I can't think of her name. The.

F

Lady at salt rock saw she did she's in she's taking a leak, but I can't think of her susan.

F

When we asked her a question about something when we first was discussing this, I thought.

F

And I could be wrong that she mentioned something about. You could check the tapes.

J

Yeah, unless a restaurant keeps a separate tab, they might keep might be on there on your system.

H

A carryout where it might be separate on their system yeah see they probably have a sophisticated.

F

System where some of these places mom and pops don't have a sophisticated system, maybe.

F

Make that sit up, I mean we only have another year of this to go so.

F

Any objection show no.

F

Okay, we're going to skip the next one. We have a request and plan from flood.

F

Zone to expand their outdoor area kitchen and to add two bathrooms.

H

And I highlighted the pictured in yellow is what they're.

H

Looking for the yellow is the new yes edition, highlighter. What.

F

What I don't understand too much some of these.

F

Structures that are getting approved in that area, which is in the flood zone, how they're.

F

Getting approved, I thought that was the issue. The last time this came before us was that the.

A

Septic had to be elevated and that's why they're going to put it on the second floor.

A

And uh keith is saying that this is first floor. I guess they have a pump.

H

Where that those there's two bathrooms already there located yeah, they want.

H

To add two more bathrooms, so I guess that area. However, it has a pump for this server.

H

But I don't I mean it still needs to be proved by county permanence. Don't need to right. What's this.

F

That whole plane there, basically from the railroad tracks, all the way to whatever that wrap down.

F

75 or whatever it is that comes in from from new windsor, it's all in a flood zone.

F

Yeah and I don't.

F

I don't understand how, in this day and time, they can get approval.

F

For adding structures anywhere in that zone, but I don't know so one part is for the outdoor seating.

H

Area part: it's not a structure, it's just it's moving the fence, so they can have more cornhole.

A

So area so the area in green is, is going down toward the river right, so the river would be here.

A

And and that's just that's just uh open open area right now and and well, it's fenced into.

H

The edge to the edge of the stream- yes right, but but they want to be able to have alcohol.

A

Go down there now which- and they can't at this time, is that right now what they want to do is.

H

Along the top of the green, it should be a yellow highlighter. That's what they want to add.

A

Oh okay, so outside they're, just adding a corn hole area. Yes, that's all they're.

H

Earning okay, so this is already part of their part of their approval. Yes,.

A

It says here: green dash line represents alcohol consumption.

A

So you can go way down to the river consume alcohol. Now you can't get down.

H

To the water, but you can get down right to the back right to the back. Yes, I see now.

H

Whatever somebody falls into the bank, they get wet.

H

Actually, there's actually a video where they actually did a.

H

Boat service- and they came- came by vote.

A

So, do you know whether or not the um the county has been involved? Yes,.

H

County's involved, but I don't know, I don't know about approvals or anything like that.

H

So my recommendation to prove this pending approval from the county yeah beside for the.

H

Kit for the bathroom, I think we can approve the boy can approve the corn aware sure. Well,.

A

They certainly could use extra facilities there restroom facilities, they do a lot of business.

A

Where they want to add the two bathrooms, what is that now.

H

Right next to the two bathrooms we have already, I know, but what is it.

A

Is it just I don't know, is it? Is it a building existing building that they're going to.

A

uh Build out or is it uh I think it's I don't think they've built out the building. I think.

H

Boeing's staying the same is just it might be: storage area. Okay. I I really don't know.

F

Any objections no- um and I agree with mr benford that our approval is subject to prosperity permits.

F

F

You'll also advise them county approvals and so on and so forth.

F

Okay, the next request is from applebee's to have an outdoor seat.

F

Mr attorney, I assume we are supposed to.

F

Divulge any ex parte communication.

K

I guess that would be good.

F

Okay, so put our own record that I have well.

F

Just put it on the record that I have discussed or answered questions.

F

Regarding outdoor seating from management of the establishment, let it go with that.

E

Keith is that in the same area that they had the outdoor seating, applebee's I'll.

E

Look that up it did yeah, that's like it yeah, so they had that last year out there correct.

F

This is a request from corporate headquarters.

F

As it's my understanding that they have requested this type of thing for.

F

Several other locations so on and so forth, and it would be in the same area as it was last year.

F

F

Questionable as to whether they're gonna add a tenth at my discussion or questions that was.

F

Asked to me- and I mentioned, that the intent had to be get the approval of the county as well as.

F

Plus for the outdoor area and there's a barrier, um the barrier last year was not that it was more.

E

Yeah, it was decorative it had like.

E

It was foliage yeah, it was not a good structure in case someone decides to.

H

Park in that parking space right, I don't mean to argue with you, but there were several of those.

F

Concrete barriers like jersey, wall type of things, like jersey, walls that were there at apples, okay,.

A

I didn't know what you call that and they were kind of decorated a little bit and my question and.

F

To any of these, and I went by or well I was actually at texas, roadhouse.

F

10 days ago, whenever it was, and they had at that time set up last year, they had that big tent set.

F

Up and when I went by there a week or ten days ago, whenever it was when I was there, they have.

F

Cinder blocks two cinder blocks on the surface, with rail posts stuck in them and two split rails.

F

To confine the area now.

F

My question to you all is not only there, but any any of these where they're set up on parking lots.

F

Is it safe for the patrons in those type of areas.

F

You know them, then jersey, walls is one thing. When you hit one of them, you ain't going nowhere.

F

But if you hit that rail fence, it's almost might not be there because you can take.

F

You could probably take your hand and take that top rail and just give it a shove if you're.

F

A little bit stronger than I am and the fence will will be over now. I only raise that as a question.

F

As to whether we should be concerned as a licensing board to permit that.

F

On the premises, particularly on a parking lot, well, somebody could say: well you let them put.

F

Tables in on main street, you know out in front of the establishment and there's no barrier there.

F

But those couple places their cars parked parallel to the curb.

F

So you have a little bit of defense, but that the more of these requests we get.

F

The more concerned- I am for that and I might be overly concerned, so that's why I mentioned.

F

I don't know whether we we should be a little bit more restrictive or whether.

F

As long as they have something up it hell, if they put one of them orange fences up, that's things.

F

Will not have it up as far as safety goes. You know it's an enclosed area where you, you know you've.

F

Got control over alcohol sales in a controlled area, but as far as safety is almost purpose.

F

So what what do you all think I'm just I'm asking you all just if you think forget it.

A

Those are good points, my question is: does the county or the city of westminster have any.

A

uh Department that uh addresses those type of concerns for what's put up temporarily.

A

Or permanently in a parking lot, sometimes don't uh permits have to be pulled for certain things.

A

That that we've approved I'm not sure in this case I I really don't know the only thing I do know.

F

Is that they have to have permission landlords right in order to do it so and suppose that.

F

They have permission from the landlord to do what the case we're talking about. I.

H

Believe the city westminster has a zoning ordinance that they have to apply for.

A

Yeah I thought city and then then my thoughts went to the county. uh I'm not sure right because I know.

H

I mean I can I can find out, I can ask, but I'm almost not I'm pretty sure the city definitely.

H

Has something they have to get permission from, so my thought is: if, if there are instances where.

A

We're the only uh governing body uh that grants permission to do this. That looks at the safety.

A

Issue, if there's nobody else looking at it, then I think, mr chairman, your concerns are, are pretty.

A

Valid because safety is one of the reasons that we sit here- public safety, um I hadn't.

A

Really thought in terms that you've just set out, but I think it makes sense to think about it.

F

What do you think, commissioner? Well, I would agree if there's another department in the in the county.

E

That determines whether uh that safety uh is granted or a certain areas granted to serve food.

E

At restaurants, that's on parking lots or things like that. Then it's their obligation, but if there.

E

Is there is none? I agree with mr barnhart that that we should consider that at least as a factor.

E

And not only we're allowing them to serve alcohol out to that area on the parking lot, but.

E

The safety factor, if there isn't any other department in the county that takes care of that.

H

So I could probably get that the accounting zone in question. I probably get that question.

H

Answered this morning: well, if you want table this, I think we could.

F

As far as far as I'm concerned, basically what I've, what I've said I said, is.

F

Is prove it pending all county and the city.

F

I would agree with that.

F

And maybe we could call this to.

F

Authorities, whoever might be that we have a concern in the future to be considered.

E

Well, keith: there's a lot of establishments. I know last year that had outdoor seating that were.

E

Well, the county waived all zoning requirements, so they did waive it. Yes, is that because the code.

E

Situation, yes, the state of emergency, I think yeah, so I need to so. I bet there is a county.

H

I would think there is, but I you know I would have to go to talk to county.

H

Zone administrator to verify- and I can I mean I could probably have that answered shortly-.

F

Well, I think, as I said, I've as I'm concerned, we approve it with the provisions any other.

F

Any other permits county or city or a thing, that's my comments, so I would agree with you.

F

Okay, so you will take care of that. Somebody.

F

Yep, what about the landlord are we still requiring the landlord to have sign off on it? Yeah.

A

It has to just for for liability insurance issues. Okay, I just don't.

H

The landlord was signed off for applebee's, it's my understanding that the landlord said: okay,.

F

uh First, they first said he wouldn't do it, but yeah. I didn't know if it was.

H

Writing, I didn't know we needed a writing or.

F

Well, that came from a corporate warrior there, so.

A

Maybe case-by-case basis.

A

You might have a concern where we would like to get in writing if you bring it to our attention.

F

F

I will say.

F

Okay, let's move on ew becks wants to participate in downtown sykesville events.

F

On may 7th july, 30 and november 12th allowing your patrons to enter and exit with alcoholic drinks.

F

This has been done in the past and and we have a written request and that does.

A

Request talk about it, it's plastic cups right, that's how they have to do it. Yes,.

C

I need bracelets on their wrist and the grapes and plastic cups right. Okay,.

E

Yeah they've always done it. Yeah.

F

Okay, let's go to uh tapsco distillery wants to participate in outdoor seating area of theirs.

F

For psych field music evenings on friday and saturday evenings throughout the summer.

F

They're my understanding their neighbor there, your cousin already has got the permission so they're.

F

Next door, so I have no objections. I don't have any either you need to see the map. It's right. There.

F

All right, let's get 30 seconds: let's do the next one requesting westminster vfw.

F

To hold events at their outdoor pavilion, 429 friday night cruising and every friday ending 9 30.

F

4 30 22 for a birthday party and 7 30 for a ccvac hosting summer concert and august 7th.

F

Were the members picnic should they have done this in the past? Yes, they have no problems. Any.

A

Objections, no, let's have a question. uh I think I've asked this question before so.

A

The the bar in the actual vfw uh brings the drinks out or do they.

H

Say they haven't actually that one actually has a bar in the uh okay.

F

F

And I would ask our esteemed attorney, mr dixon, that he will call our case 6382.

K

Please, okay 63.82 an application to replace licensees, lisa m bompard and frank rugoso.

K

Jr with uh theory bomb part for class h, beer, one and liquor license to be issued to.

K

Theory bomb part for the use of westminster, hotel investors, llc trading at best western westminster.

K

451 west middle college drive westminster, maryland 21158 in election district 7.

K

In the file of this matter, we have the following documents:.

K

March 25 2022 notice, a public hearing march 18 2022 notice, the public hearing.

K

A march 4 2022 letter from joe vance to theory bomb part and then there's an application.

K

Character: references driving record criminal background information, financial information.

K

Corporate information, citizenship and residency information and resignation, letter.

K

I would ask that the probably entered into everyone.

F

We'll accept that into evidence. Thank you this time. I would ask all those.

F

Who intend to testify to please stand and raise your right hand and be sworn in by miss vance.

C

Do you swear or firm under the penalties of perjury.

C

That the testimony you're about to get is the truth, the whole truth and nothing about the truth.

F

Mr dixon, can we proceed without our inspector sure, okay before you all, anyone testifies.

F

And pull those microphones close to you, they won't bite. You please state your full name and address.

L

uh Matthew franzine, I am the sales corps manager at best western uh 61 liberty, street westminster.

L

One maryland seven: okay, I'm sorry was your last name, franzine.

F

Who is uh going to present the case? You sure she sure if you'd like me to yeah you're the.

M

One yeah, that's great, so cherry vampire, 4825 hate drive in manchester maryland 102.

F

You may as well understand by yourself I'm sorry. The young lady might identify herself.

F

And we'll have it on the record: oh okay, my name is sandy jenkins blackburn. I live at.

N

1640 timber summit drive westminster maryland and I'm terry's friend and real estate agent.

A

So we don't have any of the current licensees here today. No.

M

I was going to ask, I could have had my lisa. Obviously, as my wife I saw.

A

Her letter of resignation right, but I didn't see a letter of resignation that was signed by.

M

Frank see it was sent, it was sent for that sign. He's I'm not surprised. I'm sorry.

M

uh Which is the reason? Actually I like to do the change, because it's just inconvenient because he.

M

Lives in philadelphia every year we have to fedex everything, so it's really more for convenience.

M

That's it and I've been I've been at the hotel since 97, so.

M

um He's aware of this hearing? No definitely! Yes! Yes! Yes, yes and he's glad.

F

You're you're the assistant to go on the license great.

F

Who are the principals of westminster, hotel investors.

M

Myself and frank just the two of them great.

F

But your wife was on the license. That's correct, originally the reason it was done. I swear if.

M

You remember you needed to be a city, you're, a citizen and a resident. I was in a citizen.

M

Frank was not a resident, so that's what we had with my wife, so that was really.

M

Bad, I think that, what's your address now 4825a drive in manchester for years for 10 years now,.

F

So it's only the two of you on the llc correct.

F

And what percentage is your interest 50 50. 50 50.? How do you break a tie.

M

A lot of fighting isn't: there's no there's, no fighting, there's nothing yeah! That's.

A

Good, I just noticed in the articles of organization that are in the file that.

A

A majority has to right vote to do anything and you got 50 50 and I'm wondering how the.

A

Majority was determined, uh it's I've been with frank since, oh god, I was 20 years old. So quite.

M

A few years back and I yeah okay yeah, that's not gonna, be an issue, so I don't want to sleep at any.

F

While we're looking at the file, how many days out of the year, do you do you normally use the liquor.

F

License uh not enough, unfortunately, it's very rare now with pursue it's covered and that's.

M

I mean I could even tell you the word I mean if we do 20 000 a year. I mean.

M

Revenue, it's it's very minimal, very, very many more sadly, so most of your.

F

Events maybe you're waiting once in a while, but how many weddings do we do right are special.

F

And they're catered is that right great, where food's involved great.

M

And the beverages compared to the food is fits five percent. I it's big. It's very, very minimal.

F

How many rooms are in the hotel one or two, how many one out of them? Two 102.

F

You don't have the ravens and you don't have the colts anymore, so nope he's a big hit.

E

So do you still have an open bar to the public or you don't? No, we don't.

M

No, no, it's just full, but but you used two years ago.

M

Years ago, oh god that was back in the early 90s 1990s right when the restaurant was dead.

A

I'm trying to talk him into that. I think we need another restaurant but yeah a good spot. There.

E

Oh, it's definitely a good spot. I just it's not for me. Is there a lease in there.

C

They're not required to submit a lot of paperwork that would be in an original thought at.

C

Yeah, the least would be one of those things they're not required, because that was covered in the original area.

A

And I have a question: the westminster hotel investors is a pennsylvania company.

M

Tasmanian llc, and so this is a license to be issued to you for the use of a pennsylvania, llc.

M

But doing business in maryland yeah. I understand that, um but my question would be I guess, for.

A

Council does that present us with any further questions about jurisdiction and whether that.

A

Pennsylvania corporation, whether we have any jurisdiction over pennsylvania, jurisdiction.

A

I mean pennsylvania corporation well, I I would think that they can. They notice.

K

Before the liquor board that they've given jurisdiction over them, so I think that's enough.

K

They can't, if you can't, you know, you're, not going to put out an order and they say.

K

If we're a pennsylvania corporation, we're not subject to your jurisdiction.

K

Because they're coming to you, for whatever they need licensees.

A

Is there a reason why it's a pennsylvania llc, not a maryland llc.

M

The lawyer is from pennsylvania, I'm sorry, they said frank he's from pennsylvania and.

M

That I wasn't living in philly, that's really the only reason to lawyer I mean.

F

Jail tab came off about it right. That's, okay,.

A

And today you have uh character, witness yes, young lady.

F

Can you tell us anything bad about him because I know.

G

He's easy to work with, so that's why I'm still working with him. After probably six.

N

Or seven years and that and maybe that's why, when he I've, never met his partner. But.

N

He's just in real estate, it's so stressful, so it, but he is easy to work with. So I can.

N

See where a 50 50 thing wouldn't be a problem, because I don't know, I think, he's easy to work.

N

With he might be different because he works with him every day. I just.

N

Terry will every once in a while, and it's not that often but every once in a while.

N

Terry will buy a house and flip it and that's how we met all right, so you're a realtor. Yes,.

A

Mr bombard, yes, you've been general manager at the. uh I was from 97 to 2008 when we listed.

A

When what, when we bought the business and listed from the college, ah is the land so.

A

It once was a college facility, and, and now um you lease from the company correct.

M

When I arrived here in 97, then 2008, I think we bought the business.

M

And I stepped away from the day-to-day operation: I'm still there, I'm there every single week.

M

So, okay, and have you ever been on a liquor license before nope and have you.

A

uh Had a chance to oh, yes, even as a manager, yes, more than actually people on the legal license.

E

It's basically, your liquor license is just for the residents that stay.

E

There not even it's more for the well, not the hotel, it's more for the like weddings.

G

That's the conference on your right. That's it special events, correct.

A

That building played a very special part of my wedding.

M

Is he married, I'm still married, that's good.

A

Wise relatives came down from new england, never met anyone, but they they had a whole.

A

Wing of your hotel- oh that's good and I went to visit and I was told in no uncertain terms.

A

Not to cause any problems.

L

So every time I drive by, I think about that party.

F

Question, gentlemen, I don't have anyone, does anybody else want to testify? I guess.

L

I mean I've, been the I've been at the best western for about eight years. I started out at front desk.

L

But I'm the sales manager now and terry pretty much saw that I had the potential at the front.

L

Desk and kind of put me into a sales position that I'd never been in before and you know will.

L

Always be gracious for that because it's put me in a career path where I'm in somewhere I'm in.

L

The community, I'm on the south, carol board, I'm on the carol uh workforce board, I'm a habitat.

L

For humanity, so I'm out there in the community. But that's only because I was given the opportunity to.

L

Get into sales and advance my career, so I'm very gracious, but no, I mean work with him every day.

L

It allows me to you know: do the things that I need to do for sales and get us out there and.

L

Get the hotel out there and the reputation so nothing bad. I could say.

L

So you agree, he's a fit and proper person too. Absolutely absolutely.

F

And your absence inspector benfor, uh you have not been.

F

Sworn in so, if you intend to testify for anything, we need to swear you in.

C

Do you swear or affirm under the penalties of perjury, that's testimony you're about to give.

C

Is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. um As they said earlier, I mean keith benford.

H

Board license commissioner inspector, as they say earlier, it's more for the wedding venues and the.

H

Conference center, um every time I've dealt with the new, very cooperative.

H

How many years of I've you know since I started he's been there, so it's it's.

H

I think he's very fit and proper person to hold a liquor license.

H

It's actually gonna work out better now, knowing that he's his name's on the legal license.

F

Commissioners, you have any questions of any of the.

F

Testimony that's been given or the applicant.

F

The only thing that concerns me is, I may have been under misinformed. I thought several months ago.

F

We agreed that any changes in licensees so on and so forth that they must be present.

F

In order to conduct the business.

F

We have the applicant, but not the current licensees plus one letter is on the side.

A

I believe that our rules do require the presence.

M

If I known, I, especially my wife, is home, I mean and frank would have come down.

A

But you're right, mr chairman, that was something we had discussed.

A

Probably, as a.

A

Best practice just to have everyone here. If you have any questions, I thought we also agreed at.

F

That time, whenever there was a violation that the licensee be included, we did yes.

F

And that's included in the rules, and you said that you were familiar with that book. So.

F

I just make that as a point of interest.

F

Gentlemen, you have the case before you. What is your decision, mr barnard? I I feel he is fit and.

E

Proper uh to hold a license, the thing that bothers me is the unsigned letter. To be honest with you.

M

Would you allow me to make a phone call, maybe my wife's under one one.

F

Side, I think I think letters by your partner, not your wife right but right. She is actually the.

M

One for the license, since he may be saying, and she most likely just signed his letter. No, she.

F

Won't sign it. She just maybe sent gave you the 1-1. That's all well, if I can get it to you by the end.

M

Of the day I mean I can go frank step outside and I'll get it to you by the end of the day.

J

A

The rules do require sure I understand, and so my question would be to the board.

A

Will we accept electronic communication as a resignation.

F

Well she's at least we have a letter of resignation signed by her here yeah. We don't.

A

Have a signed letter from the other licensee right right, I guess my question would be for mr rigoso.

A

Would we accept an email resignation or do we require a wet signature on a letter? I don't think.

A

I've I've never seen this question before since I've been on the board. I don't know the answer.

F

Mr lig wiggle, if I may, that might help you, you might have twice actually frank africozzo.com. So.

M

That might it would have to come from him to us right right.

K

It's up to the board, we can forward, or you know, waive its rule or get some communication from the.

K

Other licenses, could you make it pending? Yes, that's what I was going to suggest. We can.

F

Take action pending the receiving of a properly signed letter from the other licensee just fyi.

C

There have been resignation, letters sent by email previously that have been accepted. Okay,.

F

With that in mind, gentlemen,.

A

What's your decision, uh mr chair and I agree with uh commissioner harmoning.

A

That I I believe that the applicant is well qualified, you're, the proper person. I think.

A

Thank you to be on the liquor license and the uh I also agree uh with the chairman's position that.

A

But my motion to approve your application would include a caveat that it's pending.

A

uh The receipt from mr ragosa- yes great of a resignation, sure.

A

I think also that it is a board rule that the current licensees be present at this hearing.

A

um uh You've testified that one licensee, mr rigoso resides philadelphia, correct.

A

You testified under that he's aware of the hearing um and uh clearly the other licensee. Your wife is.

A

A probably knows, what's going on as well, and we do have her letter of resignation right so under.

A

These circumstances, which I think mitigate the application of the rule to some extent, part of.

A

My motion would be to waive the requirement that the two licensees current licensees be present.

A

At this hearing, um but this is a singular waiver- this is not something that the board should put in.

M

Regularly thank you um and that your application be approved uh for the transfer of license.

A

Again, pending receipt of the written resignation of mr rugosa, that's kind of wordy, it's easy enough.

A

Is that your motion, that's my motion, I could probably condense it.

F

Is there a second to the paragraph I would. I would second to that chapter.

F

Motion has been properly made and seconded that we approve the application to replace the licensees.

F

Lisa m bombard and frank rugoso jr with terry bombard, where a class h, beer, wine and liquor.

F

License to be issued to mr bombard for the use of westminster, hotel investors.

L

Llc trading, as best western westminster, with the caveat that our rule be waived as to the presence.

F

Of the existing licensees and a signed letter by mr reid no show be received.

F

Is that the motion yeah signed resignation, letter signed resignation, letter.

F

Let's have that in advance.

A

And, and I would also add that the resignation letter could be by electronic communication since.

A

We have done that in the past uh if that's proper, with the rest of the members. Yeah sorry, okay, said.

F

That any further discussion on emotion, no hearing, none all those in favor of signified- is saying aye.

F

Aye opposed no so ordered. Congratulations, sir. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you very much.

F

Good luck. Thank you. Thank you. Is that going to be done today. It wasn't an emotion, but that we're.

K

Based on your representation, if that's going to be done today, trust me, I'm sure I have it.

M

Just most likely, we give it the wrong one. Well, we have your wives, we don't need them. Mr ready.

M

All right, ladies, thank you so much.

F

We're going to take a 15 minute or 10 minute break.

F

All right, we are now back in session. At this time we will ask attorney dixon to call case 6384.

K

Please all right case 6384 an application for a new class bw beer. One seven day, liquor license to.

K

Be issued to maria emoti santoro, omode and ruben santiago junior for the use of frank and paula.

K

Inks trading, ass, frank's pizza, 1438 liberty, road suite, 9, eldersburg.

K

Maryland in election district 5. in the file of this matter, we have the following documents:.

K

Santoro omode completed the alcohol awareness training program.

K

There's a march 28 2022 letter from ron carr revenue, examiner 3 to the board of.

K

Licensed commissioners, there's march 25 2022 notice a public hearing for this case.

K

There's march 18 2022 notice, the public hearing for this case.

K

um Joe vance sent a memo to various.

K

State and local agencies and there's a response from belinda gasel collections office supervisor.

K

The above referenced establishment does meet the requirements of this office.

K

Lisa staley with the health department center response.

K

And the response has a x at the location that says the above referenced establishment does.

K

Meet the requirements of this office signed lisa, staley assistant director.

K

There's a march 4 2022 letter from joe vance to mr ronald carr revenue, specialist.

K

His march 4 2022 letter from joe vance to maria amadeus santoro, amade and ruben santiago, jr.

K

And then there's an application and the application includes character. References.

K

Articles of organization, menu, criminal background information, floor plan, plot plan, driving record.

K

Other licenses other licensed establishments, sdat information, a lease and workman's compensation.

K

Certificate, I would ask that the file be entered in the evidence. They'll accept that in evidence.

F

This time I would ask all those who intend to testify in this case.

F

Please stand and raise your right hand and be sworn in by miss vance.

C

Do you swear or affirm, under the penalties of perjury, that the testimony you're about to give.

C

Is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

F

You may be seated. May I remind all of those who testify that when you testify first time.

F

Please state your full name spell your last name and your address for the record. Please.

F

With that, mr preller, I believe you're going to present the case. That's what.

I

I understand good morning good morning, uh the first person I would call it would be santoro.

O

Many yeah is that to present what did you have to say about the corporation.

O

5211, stone mill, court, sykesville, maryland 21784. All right now do you now you are the owner and.

I

Operator of a business- yes number is the name of the business frank's pizza trading at springdale.

O

Inc and how many years you've been with that business. um Since I was a kid since I was 10.

I

So it's a family family, business yeah, and what exactly does the business do.

O

uh We provide a service for our community. We cook um our italian recipes that our family passed on.

O

And then we also have pizzas dinners subs things of that nature. How many days a week day, are you.

O

Open seven days times, 11 to 11. and who generally works that business me and my sister are there.

O

Always and um my partner is there usually on the weekends.

O

Here at the table with us, yes, are you the three people that can be operating the business.

O

Yes, now have you taken courses regarding alcohol beverages? Yes, and when did you take that.

O

um Last month, yeah right, you provided the certification. Yes,.

I

Are you familiar with the wallace regulations of the tower county board? Yes, uh have you ever.

I

Worked in a uh institution that served liquor I passed now, this will be the first time. Yes,.

I

All right, how do you plan to operate time? Do you serve if it doesn't serve? uh Only only the people.

O

That are certified will be serving so it'll, be the people in this table and my aunt, who is not.

O

Here she had a breast cancer scare that she had a procedure for so she will be getting certified.

O

As well after she recovers four, there will be four people yeah and that we don't know until.

I

We serve any alcoholic beverages absolutely and the alcoholic beverage that you intend to serve.

I

Just for dinner purposes or lunch purposes, yes and everything's eaten. Yes, I understand you may.

I

Have an outside uh section we're working on expanding to outdoor dining, basically, last.

O

Summer we uh invested in an outdoor pergola um this spring summer, we're hoping to get the permit.

O

To enclose it so that we can actually start dining people outside as well, hopefully increase business.

O

The I have no further questions.

A

Can you describe the layout of the restaurant now and how alcohol will get from whoever prepares the.

A

Drink or whoever gets the bottle or whatever to the customer, yes how's it going. So it's actually.

O

um Divided, we have our pos system supplied by lavu and we'll have one actually at the bar.

O

Which one of us will be sitting at the bar is very small: it's less than 10 feet long, so you'll have.

A

A bar, yes, I was already uh already. We built the vial when we built the sora yeah. Is there seating.

O

At the board uh minimal there's only like five seatings and then one for handicap, accessibility.

A

Okay, and so someone is sitting down um enjoying uh one of your meals and they want a beer.

A

How does that beer get to them? They would have to come to the bar. They would have to.

O

Order it and then we would expedite it out. Okay customer goes to the bar. Yes, so the um checking.

A

Of the id checking of the age that's done at the bar, yes by whoever is offering the drink. Yes,.

A

And I think you testified that only uh I think four people will be certified to do that in your.

A

Restaurant, it's we don't have a huge staff and um so- and we range in such big numbers and I'm.

O

Trying to keep this as simple as possible, I don't want to over complicate it, that's why we didn't go.

O

For the whole liquor license, I don't want this is supposed to just enhance your your dinner or.

O

Your lunch, it's not supposed to be like a crowd to come in and get partied up. That's not our intent!.

A

Okay, and um have you thought about policies that you might want to implement? Should you.

A

Get the license policies regarding carding policies regarding whether you accept certain.

A

Licenses or not have you thought about that so um from what I've read and understood.

O

We would only accept cards that are um horizontal, not not vertical horizontal only um and we will.

O

Have all the signage up? That's provided so that, if I don't foresee any of anyone that is not here.

O

uh Being added on to be very frank, we all work, except for him, like 60 hours a week.

O

So we will follow any and all regulations that are required of us to check them. We were looking into.

O

The whole black light um device that you can get, I think when you scan the card, um I don't know how.

O

Expensive, that is, or if that's something we necessarily need to have.

A

So vertical licenses are issued to people usually under the age of not usually under the age of 21.

A

Okay, yes, so a vertical license. Yeah! Is that right, it's vertical right, yeah, right horizontally!.

O

Yeah, it's a vertical license if you accept a vertical license and serve someone with a vertical.

A

License that can cause you some real problems, yeah, no, so, and so I think what you just said is that.

A

You would have a policy of no vertical assessments. No vertical license. Okay, it's not worth it! It's.

O

Better just to make sure everyone has a horizontal license and has the proper.

O

New identification card yeah credit card, I'm not like those ids, sorry and then the other question.

A

Of who do you card? Do you card everyone who looks younger than me or decor everybody, or do you card.

A

People who look like they're, 30 or younger, I would card everyone. I I think it's easier just to card.

O

Everybody, it's not that big of a deal so and my customer base our customer base. Is they frequent.

O

Us quite often, so I don't think that they would be offended or cause an issue for it, and it's.

A

And, like I said, this is just supposed to be an enhancement. It's not supposed to make things.

O

More difficult for us or like cause issues, so it's we're trying to keep it as simple as possible.

O

We're gonna have just a certain amount of wine like three different kind of wines, maybe two or.

O

Three different kind of beers just to make sure that the customers have some kind of option. But.

O

They're not early but extensive yeah and how long ago did you move frank's from where it was before.

A

In elvis burke, where it is now middlesbrough 2017., we opened in december of 2017., okay.

A

That's all I have right now.

F

I haven't seen this since I have, since no no, no, I just was looking for something.

A

I'm good what seating capacity do you have? uh We are able to seat 98 people.

O

Let me maybe I didn't understand you correctly.

F

If a patron comes in and they want a glass of wine or a beer, the patron has to go to the bar.

F

To order they come right now how we're set up. We expedite, we don't have servers, so our customers.

O

Come up to the front counter, they order their food, we give them a table number basically and then.

O

They go have a seat, that's just for their food pro part of it. How the pos system works is your name.

O

Is tabbed on it, so then that person or patron who wishes to get beer or wine they would the bar the.

O

Bars here and our counters here so they're very close, it's not an inconvenience, they would just.

O

Have to go over there and just whoever serving the bar area at that time would request whatever.

O

Beverage they would like, and one of us would expedite it out and from the bar. Yes do you have.

F

View of all the seats, absolutely it's a complete open layout. So if I go to the bar in order to be.

F

My 18 year old son's with me at the table. You can see that I give him the beer absolutely.

A

So right now, um let's just talk about the financial interest that you have in the company.

A

The three of you uh are shareholders, yes right, okay and and then your application, maria and.

A

Santoro basically have 22 and a half percent each okay, and is it? um Is it your your mother, paula.

O

Who has the right? That's your aunt very much paula and she owns half a majority of it. Yeah.

O

She owns, I think, 55 and then I have 20. I have the shares here. I own uh 20.

O

22.1 or something like that, and then he owns uh two percent in the shares.

O

So she so technically my aunt who has the most then my sister, then myself and then my partner.

A

Right and so um and that's uh that's reuben, santiago! Yes, sir okay, um he has two shares.

A

So it's he has a small interest, but he has an interest. Yes, okay,.

A

I think maybe an application. It had him at 20 percent interest. That was.

A

A typo that was yeah, that was my error yeah. That was my fault. I apologize that's right.

F

Hey this has got nothing to do with this case, but you guys can answer something from me.

F

What determines whether it's eldersburg or cycling? Well sykesville is a legal incorporated.

A

City eldersburg is the surrounding area and they share the same thicket but eldersburg.

A

Is not incorporated, but there's only one post office yeah. Well, there's there's actually one.

A

Downtown bodybuilding yeah, but at the little one and then there's the cityville post offices.

H

Usually it's what I found 26 if you're north side 26, it's your elders, burglary, south side,.

F

Okay, I don't want to take up all the time. It's got nothing to do with this game, but.

A

That's not always 100 percent. True, no, it's not. We thought it was because the school district.

O

We thought it was all about schooling, so that's more than we knew. I get all kind.

A

Of mail, it says eldersburg work system depending on the computer that is using. I think where I am.

E

You've been open since 2017 in the new in the new area. Right, yes, the new building, yes, sir, so.

E

What determined, now that you, that you felt that you needed a liquor license now versus back, then.

E

So, prior to us owning the shop, my father and my aunt owned the shop.

O

um When we transferred over, there was some discrepancies with the sales taxes.

O

That were not paid up, and because we took out a loan and all this extra income, I had to go into.

O

A payment plan to pay off those sales taxes. um We were going to open right before covet hit.

O

With the applications and get it filed and then once it started closing down, we didn't think it.

O

Reasonable to invest all that time and energy and money, and even if I didn't even know if you guys.

O

Ran during covet uh well not ran, operated hearings during covet. um So then we just held off okay.

A

I noticed in the file that there was a letter from the comptroller.

A

Controller yes yeah about it. I think it indicated a delinquent payment for the cr number.

A

G

The serial number says number right: um was it that delinquent payment, or was it just.

C

Asking for the cr number, I thought it said.

H

You see our numbers here, yeah yeah george. It should be.

C

The page that had the yellow, sticky on it, it should be before that one minute memos.

C

No, the yellow sticky that has how many employees do you have right now we have probably close.

O

To 15. it fluctuates between 15 to 20.. uh How many will be alcohol servers that just.

O

No, a lot of them are either high school students or like 20, so they will not be commissioned.

E

So during your whole hours operation, there will be at least one of the three of you in there.

E

Oh yeah, my so my sister and I always pull 12-hour shifts um and if I'm not there, she's there on the.

C

Weekends, does it just say: have changed so? Have you developed a in-house uh training.

J

Program for your employees as far as dealing with the applicant's sierra number, uh no to.

O

Before, quite frankly, we did not because so for two reasons, one our staffing unfortunately does.

O

Shift quite often there's a confident flow with kids, just quitting or school activities coming in.

G

What do it say to hold it there, um so that was one reason why we didn't feel it necessary and.

O

Second, we truly have no intent on allowing anyone else to provide, and there is no alcohol served to.

E

The table is that correct all right, so we would be expediting it, but from the board to the table.

O

If yeah, while they're eating okay- and it would only be it would only be the one of you three.

O

Yes and my aunt once she I'm sorry one or four one yeah, once my aunt recovers from her uh surgery.

O

She'll should be getting certified as well. Unless they are certified. We don't intend on allowing.

O

Them to have any interaction with the 01 okay, um I suspect on what you're asking about that maria.

C

Has already called and given them their cr number and I'm just waiting on the letter to clear it. But.

C

It's not a delinquent payment, it's they so needed the number. So once you have a cr number, you don't.

A

Renew it with with a payment- and you you have never dealt with alcohol before- is that correct.

E

Any of the four of you.

C

They have to renew their business license every year, but to see our number.

C

Stays I mean they get that when they open and that's their cr number exactly so so you don't.

A

Renew it with a payment, the controller does not ask for an annual renewal. No, it does not. No okay.

O

No, it is you're, saying sales tax number from the when you open your corporation right. Okay, then.

A

They use the word. I know, that's really delinquent. I don't know well george. My interpretation is that.

F

They need the number okay. If these other things would be applicable to be in sales.

F

Tax use tax, withholding tax admission taxes and maryland corporate tax. They could be delinquent.

F

But this says need applicant cr number. I don't so. I think they're concerned interpret that as being.

F

Delinquent I interpret that I need number one. Two, three, okay, I think maria gave the number I did.

P

So state state your name and address maria maria amade amodei and expected to eleven stonewall.

P

Court saxophone maryland 21784. So when I spoke to the gentleman and I gave him the number he had the.

P

Number, so it was more confirming the only issue we issue we had on. The phone call was for some reason.

P

um Part some part in his paperwork. He still had the address our old address, 1311 in londontown.

P

Boulevard, however, we were still getting it mailed to our new address, so he actually asked me to call.

P

Him the next day, so he could remember to adjust that which I did. um But that was the only thing.

P

We had as far as conversation everything else matched we even went through um because we.

P

Went through two numbers: the sales tax number and then the cr number to make sure that they.

P

Were two separate ones and what the differences were at this point, they have not verified that.

I

They've received the numbers that what we're saying yes, so you need that we need the. I need.

C

Them to send me the release letter, so we need to contact them to make sure they get it yeah. Okay,.

O

And to your previous question, no none of us have dealt with.

O

Any skills he he uh when he was younger was going to be a bartender when he was in high school.

O

I'm not high school, sorry college. I apologize when he was in college. He he did a course to.

O

Get his bartending license, but he never went through with theirs. Okay, thank you.

F

Santorum, don't have any problem being around alcohol. No sir,.

O

You're, referring to the uh when I was 22 right, the my 2011. yeah um yeah, my sister turned 21.

O

We I worked all I worked at my shift. They went out ahead of us to uh power plant. I had uh two people.

O

With the car we drove down together, one of us were supposed to be the dd. I was not the person that.

O

Was supposed to be the dd? um Unfortunately, they got intoxicated and uh I thought because I was.

O

Young and naive that I was perfectly fine, so I got in the car we started driving home. I was speeding.

O

The officer pulled me over asked me: um did you know you were driving speeding? I said no, I was not.

O

Aware of speeding, then he proceeded to ask if I was drinking. I said yes, I did have a couple drinks.

O

Asked me to come out of the car. Obviously I failed the test. um They were very nice. I was freaking.

O

Out because I was never been arrested before I thought I was going to go straight to jail. They.

O

Brought me to the barracks they fingerprinted me. I made my phone call. My aunt did come pick me up.

O

And I followed all protocols and everything else that was required of me yeah I got I.

I

Think yeah, it was a probation before judgment I didn't get um charged for dui. Oh good, good.

F

Do you have any questions of this gentleman I'll I'll, just uh council said there'll, be.

A

Some uh character testimony: okay, I'm just curious to introduce you to the other two.

I

People, if you let them introduce themselves to you and if you have any questions of them.

A

To chairman, how how the germans do, I understand yeah.

A

Any other questions further questions. Mr.

F

Mr feller, if you want to proceed all right now,.

I

Maria marie's introduced herself to you. Okay, would you please describe your business? What.

I

You do with the business and how you're running the business sure we feed people.

P

So we, as my brother, stated, we have an extensive venue, so we do serve like pizza, subs, dinners.

P

I myself, we run the restaurant so preparing to the food as well as everything else that comes.

P

Along with it the responsibilities to it, um we we're actually looking into doing the uh license.

P

As he stated before, just to kind of a lot of people, even in our old location,.

P

Kept asking: when are you guys going to get a boy license? It would be nice it'd, be nice.

P

So being in a new location, we expanded it allowed with more seatings and the ability to do so.

I

You've heard santorum describe how the liquor was going to be served. Yes, so we're, as he stated, we're.

P

Going to be the only ones, checking ids and giving them out, um we want to make sure that's all our.

P

Responsibility um as he stated, they will have to be ordered at the counter, just like they do with.

P

The food and we will be the only one distributing it and, as he stated it's going to be minimum. It's.

P

Just accommodating it's not going to be something for people to be like I'm going to frank's to grab.

P

A drink like it's just while they have a slice or dinner or something to accommodate their dish. So.

E

If someone came up and ordered- let's say two beers, would you require one id or two ids from them? No.

P

It has to be whoever is having the beverage both have to come up both id before giving the alcohol.

I

Real quick we haven't had anybody described when you walk into your business. Are there two front.

I

Doors one front door: how many doors do you have to go walk into the business yeah, so the to walk in.

P

We, uh it is two doors, so you can walk through. We have numerous exits coming, but through the.

P

Front doors: um that's when you have full vision of the whole dining as well as our counter, including.

P

The bar and our regular one, so you walk in and how far is the bar area away. So we have a you.

P

Walk in there's a vestibule, so you're gonna walk through two sets of doors first um and then the.

P

Bars directly to your left and then like a couple steps forward would be your regular calendar.

I

Is it as far as the chairman's away to the other to where the bar would be from the door where's.

I

The closure yeah, where he is right there over here yeah so there's a vestibule, so you go in the main.

O

Door there's about like three four feet of the vestibule after you go through the second door.

O

The bar is directly on the left and then maybe eight feet ten feet over there's the main counter.

I

And the seating would be, our seating is spread on this way, but for the far side we have like.

P

Four stools, one of which is like you, said more of that handicap accessibility and then we have.

P

Like actual dine-in chair savings to the right, and that's where you can sit, how many people did.

I

You save um 98 is the capacity in the shop, um but we don't have enough tanks and cherries to.

O

Open how many, how many do you have their chicken sheet? uh We have three boots and I think, like 10,.

I

Yeah and some of them are longer tables we are, we have like five or six of them that are c4.

O

And uh two or three that sit like anywhere between six to eight that will allow like.

P

Families, if they want to move them together, they can all be seated together, and you have.

I

Total view of everything from the bar area- yep how's business right now it is a roller coaster.

P

You have good days, you have bad days, but you know where we take every day as a blessing, when I first.

A

Moved to eldersburg, I was told that frank's was the place to get peace. That's what we strive for.

P

We were blessed to be over 20 years in old location and by moving forward.

P

To this one, it allows to expand to do a lot more.

I

So there's more questions to introduce reuben.

I

Room and identify yourself, please hi: this is ruben santiago, s-a-n-t-I-a-g-o.

J

um Address for teacher eleven, though middle court sykesville maryland two one, seven, three four.

I

What do you do with the business? um Actually, I basically I'm the monument in the back. I'm.

J

Running all the deliveries in and out done there on weekends on fridays and saturdays.

I

And you're taking the courses and you understand everything has to be done.

I

Have you ever been with a local business before I know.

I

How many years you've been with this business room.

J

For 10 10 years, yeah all right good question.

I

Q

Hi I'm katarina burleson b-u-r-l-e-s-o-n. I live at 7490 lazy morning way: marriageville 21104.

I

How do you know um I have been a customer um in their store old location since old location, so.

Q

Probably about 10 to 12 years, I also know them personally, the entire family they're all.

Q

Very workaholics they do a lot of community work. A lot of fundraisers they're, great supporters of.

Q

The children in the area, sports events- I have you know, helped them as well when they get crazy I'll.

Q

Come in and help them when I can, I also have a restaurant for 25 years- I'm retired, thank god.

Q

But um I I live in carroll county, all my life, so I have seen these kids. You know I've seen them.

Q

Since they were little cousins, everyone very well, so I mean they're great family, very responsible.

Q

Very good people- and you had a restaurant over in canada, yes, and what relations yes, I did for.

I

Me with the rules and regulations absolutely not planned with everything that I have no they'll.

A

So magic languages, you feel that these three people are fit and proper.

A

People to hold liquor license in carroll county, yes, they're, very responsive.

A

uh And how long have you known each one.

Q

The same amount of time, um so it's been over 10 years 10 to 12 years.

A

And you were working at the restaurant, no I've never worked. I had my own restaurant.

A

But you knew them through the restaurant. Yes, I started as a customer. Yes, so yeah.

A

Were the uh maria and santoro were they working there as youngsters, yes working hard? Yes,.

I

Just for your information, I met her with when she was born almost in the restaurant. Her family ran.

I

This for the same type of restaurant and chainsaw, and so she's she's lit she's, got it in her blood.

I

So she knows restaurants, that is that well, has anybody ever known and you talk about heather.

A

Lady right here yeah, so so, you're you're a character with us for the character. Witness.

A

You're right, what was your restaurant called in game, film, philadelphia, style, pizza and subs? Okay,.

F

Q

Thank you. Thank you. That would be all the witnesses react.

F

F

The least that you have in here.

F

Have you moved from the new lease? No, so when my father and my aunt intended on.

O

Expanding um to the new location, my father had another opportunity with another store.

O

So he liquidated his shares to his children, and that is why the original lease.

O

Has my father and my aunt on it, um there should have been.

O

And there is an amendment um that our landlord uh this year, I think, wanted us to write basically.

O

Stating that me and my sister are owners, but I submitted that to the landlord, because.

O

It's more for their records than ours. I don't! I don't see that in here, because this agreement.

F

Was made in october of 2015 yeah they, uh so our lease in our own location um lapsed in 2017.

O

um So my father, I didn't think it was a good idea, but he's a grown man uh signed at least two years.

O

Before the actual move um to do the build out and all the extra stuff, because our location.

O

Now actually used to be a boxing karate kid kind of place, so it was bare, um but, like I.

O

Said uh in the shares that we in the paperwork from our corporate book shows the documentation.

O

That my father released the shares to us. um I believe it was in 20 2020. He released it to.

O

Oh, my god, I'm so sorry in 2018 he gave the shares to my aunt and my sister and then I was able to.

O

Get um involved in 20 the beginning of 2020. As far as an owner goes, I had some personal things.

O

That I wanted to attend to before doing that and um and then reuben, because he was such a.

O

He's been phenomenal as a support system, I withdrew minimal shares um to him in 2022.

A

My years are all messed up after covet. I don't keep up for anybody.

F

This agreement was it closed from december 16th to april 17 2017.. It took a significant amount.

O

Of time for us to reopen, um we had con issues with our contractor, so we thought that we would.

O

Be able to open within three four months took us closer to seven and two contractors later.

F

So this lease according to this was a 10-year lease and it's in effect, until october, 31st of.

F

2025., it's a 10-year with an option of 10., well 10-year option of 5 and then another option of 5.

O

So, in total it's a 20-year lease now two of the years were absorbed because of.

O

Well them signing the lease. So early is your name on the lease. That's in our.

O

Phone- I don't know about on the lease, I'm not sure I know it's on the shares right.

G

And I know that our landlord knows because I've been writing the checks out to her right. So.

A

Yeah but but you had mentioned that there was going to be an addendum to the lease where.

O

Yeah she requested one this year, which I submitted to her and as the landlord you.

A

Haven't gotten it back yet? No all she requested was that we signed and basically stayed. It was a.

O

Simple paper, it says um uh we had uh eldersburg plaza, require. Who is uh the new leases of this.

O

um Establishment, please write your name and sign and that's what we did. We just wrote her.

O

Name signed it dated it and um she didn't even request the witness or anything. So I don't think.

O

She's going to process it through any legal means if she doesn't either yeah. I can get it to you, but.

O

You weren't sure it would be good to have that in the file. Okay, we're going to copy.

I

That cr matter squared away and we'll get the with your copy police. I didn't.

F

Run any other questions of the applicant or these witnesses.

F

Specter bedford, do you have any? um I met with him like twice I've been down there twice.

H

um I did give him the gold book the rules book and I did give him signage to put on for vertical ids.

H

uh I think this will be a good location for a blind license.

A

Where exactly is it again right next to oscar's house, it's next to oscars.

H

It's an internal discount yeah, no yeah! It's on that l right at the bottom. Next to total discount.

H

Yeah is it the old dry start karate yeah? I know exactly where that's before my time, yeah.

A

I know exactly have any complaints about getting in and out of that parking lot.

O

Always I think it's less about my personal opinion. um I think courtesy plays the biggest.

O

Role, I mean it would be nice if they were able to get right on to 26, like where's papa.

J

um That is not allowed, so that's not an option. Yes, you can. I did it once by mistake. Oh by.

O

Mistake: it's not legally permitted. I found out that there's like an additional like right. Yeah.

O

I think the biggest concern is people don't realize we have back parking.

O

um And also it's the worst during christmas. Most of the time, it's just people not wanting to wait.

O

And allow it parks in a yard curb too so that's another thing: dude yeah at the liquor store for.

H

The liquor store yeah, we should have got into the liquor business. I have a liquor store business so.

P

Anytime, we do have a couple of those people that say: oh, I just hate your parking lot at this time.

P

We're, like don't worry, we'll come to you, okay, all right! You raised the question in my mind,.

F

When you come out of that parking lot, you can't make a left turn on whatever that road. Is it.

F

Whips all the way around georgetown boulevard. Yes, you can, you can make a left on. I know right on.

O

Georgetown boulevard, you can't make any turn to exit the parking lot um on 26. liberty, road. You.

Q

Can enter into liberty road into the parking lot you just can't exit the county doesn't permit. It.

O

Parking lot on georgetown boulevard, there's a traffic light at 26.

F

Yes, uh the corner yeah at the corner, so you could make the left turn where you could make the right.

F

Turn go all the way around georgetown boulevard and come up to bartlow road or whatever. It is.

O

Yeah people think that's inconvenient well, my inconvenient with that parking lot is.

O

Those damn parking spaces are not wide enough to park a car to get out of even if they park.

O

In the middle of the space, we discussed this with the landlord and we actually submitted.

O

Not that it's our responsibility, but we submitted different parking options.

O

If you angle your parking, it actually uh allows more parking and it tends to be a little wider. I.

O

I personally think that the people that own the parking lot.

O

Do whatever is permitted at its minimum yeah and that's as a result of another organization.

F

That meets right around this table called tmz anyway. Are there any other testimony.

F

This time testimony is closed and we will proceed to any final remarks that you would like to make.

F

Mr fellow um basically, you've met the people, you know the people, I think you can go to the.

I

Restaurant once in a while, I think, they're, perfect candidates to have this license issue to them.

I

I think they give the impression and the strong impression that it will follow all.

I

Those regulations and it's for a family-type business I'd ask that you approve the license.

F

Mr benford, you have any closing comments. I I'll just like make a.

H

Point that we do age compliance checks, you will be checked by an underage.

H

Twice a year, um if you see that gentleman saying back come into your establishment.

A

You're more likely you failed, we have no intentions of failing.

O

All right before we close testimony and so forth, I have one question.

F

I see on your menu if I want lasagna, I gotta call an hour ahead of time.

O

Well, our it's the family, size lasagnas. So are we because we make everything fresh, um some customers.

O

Think that we can just pull it out of the freezer and give it to you, um so we do get caterings. We.

O

Do caterings as well, um we allow we we prefer more time because we've had people try to and we.

O

Do like pre-set ones for individual lasagnas, but we're not going to provide a family size portion.

O

Pre-Cut little pieces of lasagna, so it's only for like family size or bigger and we actually try to.

O

Persuade you to get the big ziti with meat sauce, it's quicker and very filling. If you want to feed.

F

A bigger family, you put meat in it, so you can know that there's meat in that lasagna and whatever.

F

You're baking uh so lasagna, we definitely put a lot of ground beef yeah and on the the big ziti. If.

O

You're looking for a lasagna, I always recommend adding meat sauce, because, obviously you want.

O

Meat in your food- normally it doesn't come up, it hasn't been called compatible. If someone doesn't.

P

Want to wait, we want like another option. Yeah, we have a substantial menu. I might use ginormous.

A

Yes, mr chairman, I would agree with council's comments uh right off the bat um there's.

A

A very good presentation covered all the bases that I'm interested in hearing about.

A

um As I mentioned earlier, your restaurant has a great reputation and it has for.

A

Literally decades, I believe, and I agree that that your clients would be excellent.

A

Holders of a license to sell beer and wine in carroll county.

A

They've hit all the points that I'm interested in your policy about vertical licenses is.

A

Important there's not to be important, important way to prevent coming here for a compliance issue.

A

That's a sure-fire way. Of course, your server has to look at the license to.

A

See it's vertical horizontal and that's a whole other issue, but I think that that you will.

A

Be sure to have the training in place where that's not gonna be an issue for you, um so I'm.

A

Yeah, I I wait to hear the comments of the other board members, but I'm in favor of granting the.

A

Application, I agree with uh commissioner barnhart uh and also with council, that they are fit and.

E

Proper to hold liquor license they've established this restaurant for quite a few years now, and.

E

Obviously have been very successful. A couple recommendations I would would give you is have.

E

An in-house training program develop that for your employees and stick to your no vertical ids as two.

E

Of the things that I would recommend with all that said, I would make a motion if it's fine with you.

E

I make a motion that we approve the application.

E

The application of the new class beer wine seven-day liquor license to be issued.

E

To maria amado, uh santoro, amado and ruben, santiago for the use of frank and paula.

E

Incorporated training as frank's pizza, 1438 liberty, road suite, nine eldersburg maryland.

A

And I would uh second that motion, of course, with the caveat that council mentioned, uh I would.

A

Incorporate the efforts that he will undertake that report must have been properly debated.

F

And seconded that he approved the application for a beer wine seven-day liquor license to be.

F

Issued to maria amada santa tour, amado and ruben santiago jr for the use of frank and paula inc.

F

Trading as frank's pizza, 1438 liberty, road suite, nine eldersburg myrrh.

F

Are there any discussion on the motion.

F

Hearing none all those in favor signify is saying. Aye aye opposed no, so ordered. Congratulations.

F

We wish you the best of luck. Thank you. Thank you so much. We appreciate it. If you have any.

F

Questions about alcohols or anything those two gentlemen, mr benford and mr jim back. There are.

F

At your disposal and I'm sure that if they can't answer your questions, I know ms vance canton so.

F

Don't hesitate to miss vance, thank you for being so patient with us. I know we spoke over the phone.

O

So many times part of it. Thank you. Thank you. So thank you. Thank you good much to you. Thank you.

F

I just happened to catch that on the bottom of the menu I thought gee wish you got to go ahead and get lasagna, but remember it's.

L

There's nothing else to come before this.

F

August body, at this time we will stand adjourned until two o'clock.

F

Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen, we will reconvene the.

F

Board of licensed commissioners of carroll county- and I would ask mr dixon if he will.

F

Car two o'clock case: six: three, eight five, please all right case, 6385, a class bc, beer, one and liquor.

K

License with catering issue to david scranton and jay lorenzo for the use of lorenzo restaurant.

K

Enterprises, inc trading as lorenzo's brick, oven, cafe, 114 south main street mountain area maryland.

K

21771 violation hearing sail to a minor and to file this matter. We have the following documents:.

K

The no notice of intention to defend with the box check, I do not intend to contest the.

K

Alleged violation signed march 29 2022 by it starts with a j. Maybe it ends with an l.

K

Yes, sir okay december 23rd is a december 23rd.

K

2021 letter from joe vance to david scranton and jay lorenzo.

K

There is an alcohol compliance violation sheet dated march 8 2022, signed by.

K

Jim fuller, signed and completed by jim cohen there's a notice of violation for selling.

K

Alcohol to persons under 21., the letterhead of brian l, d, leonardo state's attorney.

K

And it was completed by uh lee richard hagwood. I would ask that the file be entered in evidence.

K

We'll accept that in the evidence this time I would ask all those who intend to testify in.

K

This case, please stand raise your right hand and be sworn in by mrs vance. Do you swear or.

C

Affirm under the penalties of perjury that the testimony you're about to give.

C

Is the truth, the whole truth and nothing, but the truth I do I do. Thank you. Thank you.

F

Would you like to tell us what happened? Yes, we're out of order. We've got to start with.

F

The prospector, oh, that's right, I'm sorry! You both stood up and you you confused me.

F

Mr jim you're, going to present the case. That's correct, jim pullum inspector for the board of.

B

Licensed commissioners for keller, county address at 225, north central street westminster maryland.

B

On tuesday, the 8th of march 2022 at approximately 605 pm.

B

I sent two underage volunteers into the lorenzio brick oven cafe in mount airy maryland with the.

B

Intent to purchase alcohol, the volunteers sat at a table in the restaurant area and the volunteers.

B

Ordered a miller like beer and a blue moon beer from the server lee hegwood, the server lee hayward.

B

Has asked the volunteers for an id and was shown mail and vertical licenses from both persons.

B

Licenses indicated that were vertical and indicated that the ages were less.

B

Than 21 years of age, the server then served the volunteers with a blue moon beer bottle and a.

B

Bed in a bottle upon my arrival, I spoke to the server who stated that he thought he'd.

B

Ask for the id, but he knew that it was, but he knew a vertical idea. Id was for persons.

B

Under the age of 21 years of age- and it was a criminal offence to survey minor, I.

B

Then spoke to the manager about this incident. Both volunteers were under the age were both.

B

At the age of 18 years of page at the time of this incident and all the above occurred.

B

In carroll county maryland, and I made a motion to submit four photographs, we'll accept them.

B

F

Lorenzo yes, sir, your full name and spell your last name and address for the record. Please and then.

F

You can tell us what happened? Yes, uh j lorienzo uh last name, lorienzo l-a-u-r-I-e-n-z-o,.

R

6200 murray terrace reside in frederick maryland, uh I'm the owner of lorienzo.

R

Restaurants, incorporated lorienzo brick, oven, cafe doing business as.

R

We've been in business now um before pre-fire in mount airy. Our operation.

R

Has been in business 16 years and we're a family-run operation, um we've um we've.

R

Been working hard to uh to train our staff throughout the years and do the right thing and.

R

Serve good food and be a you know: upstanding family and business in the community of mount airy.

R

We've enjoyed every moment, we've been on that main street.

R

We've had our ups and downs and made it through certain issues: financial crisis into pandemic.

R

And and beyond um these incidents, we take extremely serious um and it happened that.

R

Evening, when getting back to full service after the pandemic, um lee a a solid, mature server.

R

Made a bad judgment call while he was running around a little crazy that evening.

R

And he um he was devastated to find out that he had made a mistake and understands fully.

R

What he did wrong that night we've since trained all of our staff month this past monday evening.

R

To tips training, we had tips training just this past monday evening at the restaurant.

R

And my son-in-law runs it with my daughter, angela and my wife, linda my son, nicholas.

R

Families in the business a lot, um even after all these years, we've we've still made a.

R

A solid attempt to be involved in the daily operations um with being sidetracked. I think.

R

From the pandemic, and not focusing fully on sort of recertifying and and and getting everybody.

R

Going again, once we got back to full service, we had brought on a lot of new kids uh that we just.

R

um Didn't train properly just to have it sort of back in there in their minds again forefront.

R

uh Lee's lee took it very seriously: he's he's going through the the proper rehabilitation to.

R

To um make restitution for it and um he's still with us, he's a mature, individual and um certified.

R

And the culture now of the vertical ids is top of the list.

R

That um we've talked about and we've had a solid culture of doing the right thing when it comes.

R

To alcohol service, we're not a bar we're a family-run pizzeria, we close at 8, 30 and 9.

R

P.M: at night, at the latest, every night we close at 9pm, we never were a bar, but during operating hours.

R

We we still have to get the the level of intensity back up again with our staff and vertical ids.

R

Is going to be one of them where we don't take them period? I know that will solve a lot of it, but.

R

At the same time, having everyone trained and doing the right thing is the direction we're headed.

R

So we, on behalf of the loyans of family, we're extremely sorry for this.

R

We again try to do the right thing and made some mistakes here. We take full responsibility for it.

E

Mr larian, so what what is your policy for serving uh vertical or horizontal license in your.

E

Establishment um we've talked about it throughout the last several years that um it it wasn't.

R

A law to to not um so we didn't push it as hard as we wanted to and then getting back.

R

To service again, we just probably wasn't talked about nearly as much as it should have been.

R

And it will now be 100 policy. We do not accept vertical ids. So up to this violation, you you.

E

Would consider serving somebody in verticals if they were of age. um I've I've made an exception.

R

One guy several years ago, um but it that that was it it. Never. It's rarely ever happened um and I.

R

Was in the building that time and and didn't talk to the guy and said, listen, you know, I'm sure your.

R

Mom's been bothering you to go down an mva and get a new license. I'm going to serve you this time, but.

R

You need to get your license up to date, so we did that we did it once and um but that was.

R

That was many years ago. Do you have any signage right in your establishment? Now that says we don't.

E

Serve vertical ids no, and we will I I'm glad you brought that up. I hadn't considered that how long.

E

Has mr hagwood work for you uh he's been with us since uh coming out of last year, we were still not.

R

Full service, yet they were still counter service, and uh so I would say, by uh fall of last year,.

R

Late summer, maybe he joined us prior to the violation. Was mr hagwood certified tams or tips.

R

I'm not aware of that. uh Actually, so you you never asked them when you hired them whether.

R

You're with tams or tips, he knew how to serve alcohol. Well, um I'm I'm not aware now we do.

E

You have an in-house training program, uh we do for a new server that that you hire.

E

What what do you tell me a little bit about that? What do you do when you just hire somebody.

E

Well, we'll sit them down, we'll have an orientation with them, we'll chat with them um and I'm I'm sure.

R

The discussion comes up. It's part of our policy to discuss that we haven't required.

R

Anyone certain that it comes up, I'm sorry, you're sure or you're certain that it comes up that that.

E

Discussion about uh well, it's our it's our policy with my family, who do the interviews, and I like.

R

To think that it's it's always done, I I can't vouch that it always is. I need to come down a.

R

Lot harder with it to require it that describes your policies. No, I don't at this time, that'll.

R

Be something we get right on and post the uh to the public that vertical ideas are.

R

Not accepted so I saw that you did have a prior. What was the prior, the date of the last prior.

E

2018 january 2018. yeah, so from that time to net to this last violation, what did you change.

E

uh In your establishment to make sure that it didn't happen again,.

E

What were your changes? um Tips, training.

E

That was just recently I'm talking yeah, no um beyond that. After that incident, we we the same.

R

Thing making sure again um an unfortunate wake-up call. That was a veteran who was with us for for so.

R

Long and um looked at it, I think that one, if I recall, was not a vertical id, it was a.

R

I'll say no fake id; no, it would have been a vertical, I'm sorry yeah, I'm sorry yeah.

R

Yeah and and since then we you know, we trained everybody. Again, we talked about it. Our culture.

R

Again was hitting them at shift meetings and and discussing and everything else and and just doing.

R

The best we can, after that point, I just want to get one statement correct if this is correct,.

E

It was in there that your server said that he knew a vertical license was a person under 21? Is.

E

That correct- and he did actually tell you that that's correct when I asked him that question.

B

He acknowledged that uh he knew a vertical license would be for somebody who was under.

B

The age of 21., but he served him anyway, that's correct. Did you talk to him about that? We haven't.

R

And uh that, of course, makes no sense and um he's still working, he is and and what what it was is.

R

He was very, he was devastated by what happened if the fog of the of the shift of him running.

R

Around was just um it just caught him off guard and he made it a foolish.

R

Call, I think you know it's the hindsight 2020 where he's like you know I was thinking, but.

R

30 yeah, just I think, just over 30. and he's he's one of our in the short period he's been with us.

R

One of our um you know, leader type unofficial leader type uh persons within the within the.

R

Building that, because we have a lot of uh younger kids, that that look up to him and a.

R

Couple others that I have and um yeah we made that we made the call based on his character.

R

To keep him with us, learn from it and and have him you know, do the right thing, moving forward.

A

Mr lorienzo.

A

He had a prior violation for underage service back in 2018.

A

Do you remember the fine for that? um I want to say uh either 300 or 600.

A

It was 600 yeah and the reason it was 600, because there was a.

A

Violation before that right for underage service, I I think was that 2016. Does that sound like 30.

A

No 2013 is a rule, so may 13 2015, 25 yeah. So there's a that was your first violation for.

A

Under its service was 2015., and I think that you were fined 300 with 100 suspended now, typically.

A

This board hasn't passed for a first violation for underage sales. The fine is around 300.

J

uh In that case, um from my notes and uh 100 of that was suspended, so it was a 200.

A

Fine, do you recall, did you attend that hearing by a chance I've, yes, I've been to all of them.

R

Remember why that 100 was suspended, there's probably some mitigating uh circumstance that.

A

Led the board to knock off a hundred dollars so to speak. Did there bring ability requiring that.

R

I believe so, yes, just in our position, I think in the in the community and um uh first mistake and.

A

By the way, let me say as far as your position, the community, you run one of the.

A

Finest restaurants, in carroll county, uh the reputation you have is stellar for food service.

A

And uh accommodating the public uh and um thank you so I just want to say that off the bat.

A

Yeah and it is, you know, a family establishment and I think you're. You should be proud of what you do.

A

Up there, it's a it's a favorite in mount area and beyond. Thank you, um but the concern I have.

A

A little bit is the record the um uh the amount of underage sales during the last few years, and.

A

What we usually do on the board is every time there's an underage sale when we start thinking.

A

About assessing a financial penalty is would be double the previous line yeah, so the one in 2018.

A

For six hundred dollars that that was the theory behind that probably was, we were doubling the.

A

Three hundred dollar, because that would have been your second now you're on your third.

A

That's why you're here today, and in addition to this is the third time you've appeared before.

A

Us for an underage violation. This could arguably be uh correct me if I'm wrong weren't there two.

A

Underage volunteers, that's correct: there was two uh two eighteen-year-olds served.

B

So basically that could that could be argumentally, third and fourth violation, because two separate.

A

People were served that two separate people were carded uh sure enough by the same server, so that.

A

Kind of adds gravity to the to the mistake that mr hagwood made yes, sir. I understand.

A

And I think you said at the time he he was not tips or tam certified. He was not. Is that right.

A

Of this most recent yeah, I'm sorry to the best of my knowledge, I don't recall, did um I asked.

B

Him the question, but he didn't come back to me with a specific answer, so I didn't didn't write.

B

It down either way right, but the point you made earlier in testimony is that now uh all your.

A

Servers are certified, yes, recently right, yeah yeah just monday night, and he was one of them.

R

um No, he was not one of them, he couldn't be there at this time, but we'll so so he still needs to.

A

Go through that training, yeah and he's doing that other thing he has to do the diversion. Yes, yes and.

A

Okay, oh by the way before I forget I had a question, uh uh is lorenzios operating.

A

Under full-time hours, right now, or are you have your hours been cut back because of the.

R

uh We we were cut back more during the pandemic. We've since opened up a lot of it, but we're not.

R

100 to where we're going, I was talking to um keith about it, uh we'll be back to two meals.

R

A day uh it's it's just a tuesday, wednesday and thursday that we're not doing lunch right now. Okay,.

A

And uh you're talking about signage, um yes, I think uh inspector before can probably give you a.

A

Really good, we do not accept vertical ids placard. Absolutely that might help you. It would definitely.

A

Help I'm not showing up here we'll have it all over the place, and I think you testified that mr.

A

Hegwood has been around has been your employee uh since it'd be a year this summer yeah. I think.

R

So, to the best of my knowledge, I'm sorry, I can get those exact dates. If, if we need it, I don't.

A

Have difficulty finding people to work? Oh yeah, that's still why we're not able to go full at.

R

Lunch you know we're we're all chomping at the bit for it it was a long road to get back to.

R

Full service and and get the staff for it, and I think we we operated a little in survival mode.

R

Trying to to get to that, and still having a, I like to believe, a positive mentality in how to do.

R

Things responsibly and um some of this requirement for training or I mean required tips, training to.

R

Have the job we I want to get to that 100 percent, where this just isn't a factor in the future.

A

And, and to help you along the way, uh like uh commissioner harmony was saying, uh an employee.

A

Policy. Booklet. Yes, absolutely that sets out no vertical ids are accepted, among whatever other.

A

Policies, you have and have the employee sign that yes and dated and that kind of drives it home a.

A

Little bit sometimes for people absolutely and they have to sign something. Absolutely um that's.

A

Just a suggestion, 100 percent, so it is your new policy not to accept absolutely yeah. That's good.

F

So I'm under the impression that you're only not serving two meals a day.

R

uh We're not serving two meals a day on on just uh we're closed on mondays and then uh tuesday.

R

Wednesday, thursday we open at 3, 00 30. um and that's we're hoping to go in the next couple of.

R

Weeks getting into spring, with our patio open um to full full meal full day service, tuesday through.

R

Sunday are we not to be notified in cases such as this after the state of emergency was lifted,.

H

I don't think we ever requested that be notified, um but I've been in I've been in touch with them.

R

Yeah- and I just want to get on record that they are going to be going to fullback full service.

H

And we we've touched base on touch base with the manager several times of reference to that.

F

And you have professors in frederick county, I do. I have one down in.

R

Hyatt's town right on 355 from north of clarksburg, do you have a liquor license there.

R

Yes, sir, have there ever been any violations? No, sir.

H

How often have you been checked on there.

R

um I I don't know they. They haven't, sent us letters if we were like.

R

I like the way you guys send the letters and let us know, and then we post it and we you know, have.

R

A rally for the kids that did the right thing and we'll do that from last night's victory.

E

Do you have an incentive program for your employees, in other words, if they actually.

E

Catch someone trying to order alcohol and they're underage that they get a bonus in their checker.

E

No, but I like that idea, it's a great idea. That's a great idea.

E

Your employees will really try to catch people yeah and, and we.

R

Go put them on the offense and offense can win championships too.

R

We we do post the letter that says we, you know, refuse service and we have a shift meeting about.

R

It and we'll give them family meal. You know we feed family meal when there's something that.

R

Goes well goes right, so since they haven't, since they haven't eaten since the.

R

Violation they'll appreciate getting something to eat after last night's victory, so.

A

And I understand there was a follow-up, that's correct. We went out last night, I used the.

B

Same male volunteers, I did uh on the nights of the violation and he was not uh served.

R

I'm sorry that's what I was referring to as the victory from last night that they.

R

They refused services. uh No, it was a different server.

A

How many servers do you have generally uh we're? Actually don't have very many. um You would think.

R

It'd be easier to manage this just handful of kids, um along with everything else. We we try our best.

R

um Do you not have enough, in your mind, uh correct yeah yeah, where they're they're running.

R

And we're getting busier again and you know as a blessing of course we're getting busier and busier.

R

And so we're we're, um we got new uniforms for them. We got this new whole mentality.

R

So it's the perfect time to re-implement a new training program and um a signature sheet for.

R

Them and everything else we we just have, probably I want to say six or six, maybe eight yeah yeah so.

A

The board kind of looks at repeated problems each time. There's another problem, that's repeated it.

A

Gets more serious in our minds, of course, at some point.

A

Again, you've had three three violations uh since 2016. uh You probably want to be really concerned.

A

About getting any more, absolutely or because 100 that number's getting up there, yeah understood.

A

And uh again you have a wonderful restaurant and I would sure hate to see anything happen. Of course,.

A

To your business, because it's an excellent business right, thank you. We're going we're.

R

Going 100 full steam ahead on this one and uh after the pandemic stuff's behind us, we can focus.

R

The thousand percent on on really what we should have been focusing a thousand percent on, but once.

R

Again at least yeah well, the pandemic has caused a lot of license these problems in many ways. Yeah.

F

Any further questions.

F

Well, it's apparent.

F

The violation occurred, there's no question about that, but the follow-up.

F

Pass but unfortunately, there's a violation in 2015, 2018 and 2022.

F

I don't like the pattern of every two or three years: there's a violation. Yes, sir, and.

F

The tip off it's a vertical license and 95 percent of the time, or maybe more than that.

F

Should be a tip-off, but that person is under 21. and I don't know how we can fully educate.

F

People that when they ask for id- and they see it's vertical, it doesn't jump right out.

F

Right but it doesn't seem to work that way so.

F

I don't know it's like some other violations that occur in other types of situations and.

F

Much more serious violations and selling to.

F

Underage people right.

F

With that said, gentlemen, you've heard the presentation and the testimony.

E

So I think at this point it's time to get serious about.

E

Not serving miners, yes, sir, I feel like in the past maybe- and I could be very well.

E

Wrong, but this is just how I perceive that it wasn't that important to you as far as.

E

Vertical license, perhaps you accepting vertical license prior to this incident.

E

Made some of your servers think that the vertical license were okay. Maybe that's why he served these.

E

Two volunteers that had vertical license because you didn't have that policy enacted in your in.

E

Your restaurant, um the other thing is there were no signage in your restaurant that we don't serve.

E

Under 21, even if it didn't say no vertical ids, it could have said we don't serve under 21.. There.

E

Was no signage at all in your in your restaurant there's no written in-house policy. I don't even.

E

Know if you have a policy where you go over your employees about alcohol serving that's something.

E

That needs to be done and if you come up with a written policy, have your employees sign those.

E

That and bring those in if this ever happens again, that you've instructed them not to serve.

E

To vertical license, the other thing is not knowing the history behind your employees, not.

E

Knowing their background educational liquor and as far as not serving uh you didn't even know, if.

E

He was um if he was tips or tam certified when you hired him. That's something that's important to ask.

E

Right so that you know how much education you have to give him right. Well, those are important factors.

R

Extremely that'll be a new, uh a new direction, moving forward for sure. I appreciate that.

A

Mr lorienzo, um I don't want to go over the same territory that I've already.

A

Discussed with you, I I agree everything that commissioner harmony has said.

A

um Yeah, it's it's and also everything the chairman has said by the way.

A

A little troubling to us, it seems like there's a pattern um and, like I mentioned earlier,.

A

This could theoretically be your fourth and fifth violation. If the inspector chose to uh cite you.

A

That way he didn't, but it's still those are two violations at the same time, yeah I understand.

A

I'm not prepared to make a motion, mr chairman, any time unless someone else wants to.

A

Comment on my case chair would recognize a motion if, in order.

K

The board has gone back five years, so if you're you're looking at that 2015 violation.

K

That was seven years ago, so I just wanted you to be. If you want to be consistent with your policy.

K

Or your practice that you consider that you may consider dropping the 2015 violation off.

K

I mean you're the board, you can do what you want, but the consistency.

K

And practice: that's going back seven years yeah and I thought about that. uh Mr dixon and.

A

It's a it is a guideline, a policy there's a five-year window that we have looked at.

A

A lot of times that policy employs five years of successful compliance checks.

A

And then we don't go back any further. That's how it's usually been employed by the board.

A

And I understand what you're saying, however, we also have a common policy of incremental.

A

Increases in fines from the previous one, so when you look at this is the second.

A

Violation within a five year window, but the fine before us was six hundred dollars.

A

But I I take your point: I'm prepared to make a motion again, mr chairman, and thank.

A

You, mr dixon, for that, because it did cross my mind. I'm sure it crossed the mind of.

A

Other commissions as well, but before you make your motion in response to mr dixon.

F

What the policy of the board has been in the past.

F

In lieu of fines.

F

Suppose we would order a 90-day suspension of the license.

F

Which we have no history of, and no policy in the past.

F

What would be your answer to that.

F

You just said that the board can do whatever they want.

K

Well, 90 days, that's uh I don't recall a revocation well one case that we suspect.

K

You suspended the license for like six months raphael's, so I'm just saying you need to be.

F

I have no history, we have no history for that. Right. Raphael's was a whole different situation.

F

And a different charge right: this is sales to a minor right. So all of a sudden that this.

F

Board would say we're not going to find you 300 we're going to suspend your license for 30 days.

F

And you're saying we have to do this, no, no. We have no.

K

Practice was that I'm not saying you have to do anything. I just wanted to point it out. I.

F

Just want to make it, I want to make it clear before you go, the board doesn't have to follow.

K

Now somebody could take us to take us to court and let you earn your money.

E

I think there's other circumstances that determine what the family is going to be in.

E

Circumstances like what is the individual doing to prevent the sales to minors? Are they taking.

E

All the steps to do that, if they're not, then I believe that the board can change the penalty. Yes,.

F

Well, that's that's my point. Go ahead and make your money mr dixon agrees that we can, you know, use our.

A

Discretion- and you know he just said that, yes, so that's the point, I was trying to make yeah and.

F

I understood not suspend license or anything like that. My point was: the board: has the ability to.

A

Rule right- and I agree, mr chairman, and, like I mentioned earlier on the first violation.

A

You had it was a three hundred dollar fine with a hundred dollars suspended, then the next violation.

A

We doubled it, yes, sir, but what we did not do apparently was to add that 300 that was suspended.

A

Back onto the second violation, which you know, suspension usually means is conditioned on.

A

Good behavior, so I'm taking that into account as well, is that you know it just looks like.

A

You were given the benefit of the doubt, the first time around.

S

And the second time around go back to 600 fine and, as I said earlier, this board.

A

Has almost always incrementally increased the next succeeding violation? Sure yes, sir.

A

So, having said that uh and again reiterating that, I think you have a wonder, wonderful, restaurant and.

A

I, and we all wish you the best of luck uh going forward and I think that you're going to implement.

A

The policies that you spoke about earlier absolutely not come back again with the.

A

Signage and the employee handbook, and maybe some incentives and this type of thing absolutely.

A

Anyway, having said that, I uh I would make a motion. I move that in the case of 6385.

A

That we find the licensee is culpable for the violation of sales to a minor.

A

And that, in light of the past record, that this being depending on how you count.

A

Fourth or fifth violation uh I would uh move. I would move, mr chairman, that the fine be double.

A

The previous fine, which was six hundred dollars, that this fight, would be twelve hundred dollars.

A

That's my motion. You have a motion on the floor. Is there a second.

F

I second that motion most of the properly made and seconded that we impose a fine of.

F

Twelve hundred dollars in case 63.85 sales to a minor.

F

By lorenzo restaurant enterprises, inc trading at lorenzo's, brick oven, cafe any further discussion.

F

On the motion, no hearing, none all those in favor signify the saying aye aye opposed no.

F

So ordered the eyes, have it, mr lorenzo? We find you culpable and assess a fine of 1200, which must be.

F

Paid within 30 days of official receipt by mail of the decision of this board. Yes, sir, we're sorry, but.

R

We wish you the best and hopefully that we don't see you here in two or three years again: amen.

R

Thank you, sir. Thank you very much. Good luck. Thank you.

F

Okay, I have no other official business listed on that schedule. We'll go back to.

F

The other business at hand, according to our schedule, we skipped over a guy.

F

By the name of darren barnes, mr barnes is to appear to discuss delivery requests.

F

Well, uh he was scheduled at 2 30 and we've done the business prior to him, probably at 10 30.

F

Darren, if you want to come up here before.

F

Tell us what you have in mind.

F

You want me to state my name, you know first, or is this not the first order.

T

Darren barnes: we need it for the record joe.

F

I guess we do, I guess darren barnes 813 snowfall away. What's mr maryland christian orr.

S

575 sunshine way westminster, um basically we're coming in to follow up on the previous request.

T

That was um made and had discussed, and I know there was follow-up discussion. I would have.

T

Came we would have came, then we didn't really know it was going to be on the schedule. I guess.

T

Maybe it was- and I didn't see it so I was just coming in to find out if we could get approved.

F

Did you uh do you have any idea what your average.

F

Delivery figure might be yeah, I would say, uh average four hundred dollars.

E

Maybe a little higher is that for what would that be for four hundred dollars.

G

A wedding is four hundred dollars for liquor. Often more I mean it's a lot more than that. I would say.

S

The range is 300 to 1500., I just bought for a wedding. It was 2500., he paid too much house of.

S

Liquor, it's going to save you some money. It really depends like some people. Some people only want.

T

Like beer and wine, so it's lower on the lower end and then some people want full-scale upscale yeah.

E

We've had some that high, but it's just hard for me to believe that hundred dollars. You.

E

Can put on a wedding with liquor, we did one for my brother-in-law in november. It was eighteen hundred.

T

Yeah was that a brother-in-law price yeah yeah the little product that would have been two over two.

T

Thousand, that's more like it yeah! Well, you know. So they went top shelf. You know you got the kilos.

T

That cost a hundred dollars a bottle. You could get five bottles and be it four or five hundred.

T

And you don't have anything you know, I I think that's a point that.

A

Yeah that we agree with you on yeah and someone were smaller, you know some people they've got.

T

Smaller budgets, a lot of people, usually, if they're coming to us, they're, trying to save a lot of money.

S

It's a you know, a smaller event or something suppose we said all right. You can do it minimum.

F

Of a thousand dollars, what's your reaction uh that would preclude most deliveries really.

E

Well, what are your smaller events other than a wedding, because I know weddings are expensive. I.

E

Mean most things are weddings, I mean there's been, we've done, some of the westminster class reunions.

E

You price it out per person at the wedding, or how do you do that? We tailor it uh exactly to what the.

S

Client wants, you know. Usually we have a meeting with them. You know what are you looking for.

S

um You know we try to be hands-on, that's why they will come to us is we'll we'll put a little more.

S

Effort into it, you know than some other most people most people tend to over buy. So what we.

T

Do is because they'll want all this beer. I need 20 cases beer. Why do you need 20 cakes of beer.

T

Yeah, you know okay, you're gonna have are you, gonna have liquor there and wine they're.

T

Probably gonna go for some of that and then you got a percentage of people that don't even.

T

Drink so you could have 150 people. I automatically got 20 to 30 off, because these days you got.

T

Designated drivers and you got non-drinkers, so you didn't, then you work with the lower number.

T

And you get a per drink per person and then we ask them: how long is his reception? If it's a four hour.

T

Reception, it if it's during the day, they'll probably drink a little less than if it's in.

T

The evening so then we come up with an average drink per person. We multiply it out so then we.

T

Show them I could. If I wanted to, I could go yeah man I'll, sell you three thousand dollars worth of.

T

Stuff and then they come back and they got two thousand dollars worth of left yeah. So we could.

T

Do that, but we don't that's, why we kind of got the reputation that we we're just trying to sell.

T

You what you need at the right price, you know, give them a discount and then we'll bring it. You know.

T

To the venue, like the writing club, um different wedding venues, there's one down southern sullivan.

S

Road, I can't a couple of my cameraman names on top there's one in new windsor. It's interesting.

F

That you say that, because I was in charge of getting the liquor for our fifth year reunion.

F

Where we filled the rowdy club up with people, okay- and I got two bottles of scotch.

F

We raffled the second bottle of scotch off, which was never the seal broken at.

F

The 25th class for you, so I appreciate what you just said there right well like.

T

Somebody open charlie, wants scotch, so a bottle of scotch couldn't run you anywhere from.

T

30 to 100, you buy two bottles and because what happens is they have two bars? So you.

T

Know and then they need two bottles, because you want each bar to have have the same bottles. But.

T

What you can do is you set the bars up a certain way to where there's certain things that one and.

T

Certain things another, then you don't have to have two bottles of everything, but if you've had, if.

S

You've had to deal with any kids or uh grandkids or whatever that are getting married and they.

S

They they freak out, but you know they, they don't know what they're doing and they want way too.

S

Much stuff and I got to make sure I don't run out and we approach them calm and say: we've done this.

S

Before you know, you don't need as much if you're only there for four hours dollars is a shock.

T

There's no way we we probably I mean it's rare. I mean we don't even do that many deliveries. I would.

T

Say you know wedding season, that's why we really want to try to get approved, because it's this when.

E

We do most of them, I mean the winter time. I don't think we we have one place, the the senior home or.

T

Whatever um that the older people they're like a delivery like every month, you know they get like.

T

Box wines and stuff um they're very heavy, you know so an older person trying to carry it. They just.

T

Like to get five or six cases of box wine brought to them, but that's not delivered to an individual.

S

It's delivered to the home itself and then yeah they destroy, they have their parties or whatever.

T

With it, I don't know what they do, but the guy in charge most of them are most most of the weddings.

S

Are under a thousand dollars, you know um so that that would block most probably 80 tax returns. Yes,.

E

What they don't use you take that, with a with an agreement ahead of time.

S

With an agreement like that's, that's part of our thing: if we recommend a certain amount and you.

T

Go way beyond it at that point in time I say: look I'm recommending this. If you want to buy all that.

T

We're not taking it back because number one if we are going to bring it to you, it's more for us.

T

To carry over there and if we got to go back and pick it back up or they're going to bring it back.

T

It's going to be a wagon load of stuff, and it's just the paint. Can you literally take it back.

F

Yeah, I think so yeah we could take returns. I mean just like if it's a sealed product in good.

S

Standing like if you bought something one day and realized it was the wrong brand for your wife or.

S

Whatever you bring it back the next day, we take it back as long as you know, as long as we can totally.

S

Yeah I mean we're cautious about it. You know compared to we don't like.

T

We don't like to, but everybody does take stuff back.

E

I'm sure you take the george back so I'll. Take that back, yeah sure I'll take that right now.

A

Grant you this authority, what is your expectation of how many times you would make deliveries.

A

Let's start with 500 on up.

A

In the upcoming season, have you thought of that? I would say one a week.

A

One week during just I mean on average, sometimes it's none, sometimes it's about yeah. Sometimes it.

G

Could be two, maybe you mean in the whole summer you mean I'm talking about the wedding season.

S

Yeah like definitely this is for it's mainly only let's say like april to october, I mean.

S

Maybe 20. it's hard to say um I mean certainly like the last couple years worth of you know: data.

S

Is not normal, you know there haven't been weddings and as many, um but I I think, probably around 20.

A

So right now someone wants to buy a large supply of beverage, alcoholic spirits for.

A

An event right now they come to you and you load them to their truck. Oh yeah. We do.

T

Because we do charge a fee to deliver normally because, like you know, usually he's one delivering.

T

Or I've delivered, um and maybe one of the other managers, but typically it's somebody.

T

That's familiar with the event and the people, I thought you had to have authority from the sport.

A

To deliver yeah now we have, we had permission to be one. We stopped with keith. Let us send the.

T

Email, okay, the previous board, I had permission to deliver yeah. Yes, I've been delivering for 25 years.

T

I mean, and there should be a letter in the file unless they cleaned it yeah did you have a minimal.

E

Price for delivery. Before um I mean I won't deliver anything under a hundred bucks.

S

I mean no, but I mean, but if somebody called up and was like hey, can you deliver.

S

We don't that's, not what we do it's like. We basically tell people we deliver to weddings.

S

Or larger? Well, I don't want to start that up, I mean you, you institute a service like.

T

That you're you're asking for a whole another animal. You know it's more cost to you. You've.

T

Got cars running like a pizza place? No, I mean that's nothing. We want to do yeah.

T

You wouldn't want to be able to deliver, but have things planned out ahead of time? You.

A

Wouldn't take a phone call and for the most part I mean I mean I have to put on the staff for that.

T

We don't where they get to the event, they do run out of stuff and they would call us you.

T

Know I I'd still like permission to be able to deliver that same day if somebody called, but we.

T

Typically, don't like to operate that way, because on something of that scale, you got to write up a.

T

Ticket you got to price it out, you know it's normally, I would say 99 pre-planned yeah.

A

But you still want the ability to do that. One percent: well, the only thing.

S

That makes you happy would be the situation that he's talking about, and that's only.

S

Happened, maybe a couple yeah as a courtesy of like say they say the cake they have.

T

Isn't working or something you're not going to run another cake, yeah or something's broken.

A

But they've already planned it with you yeah, that's the same event.

A

This is just a supplemental to uh yeah pre-planned events yeah we're not well, I'm not talking about.

A

That I'm talking about someone calls you I would say I would be fine with 24 hours notice,.

T

Because you do have people that wait until last minute and they want stuff and they'll come in.

T

And we'll just hey, you know something happened and I need this stuff tomorrow and I can't come get it.

T

Can you bring it they'll come in and we'll get the list yeah, but no we could do it that way.

T

It's like, especially like the the nursing home, where there's that place right for you. You know.

T

They can spur the moment forgot, they had an event tomorrow or something and he calls and goes hey. I.

T

Need it you know so I mean like he said we we really can't accommodate that. I mean it's some.

S

Calls we don't have people, we don't have a it's in my truck or darren's truck. You know what I mean.

S

We just don't have people to do that, so I mean it'd be nice to have the ability in an emergency.

S

Situation but, quite frankly, that emergency situation would not come up hardly ever yeah.

S

I can't even really recall doing that any time you know I've had one time we try not to make mistakes.

T

On the initial order, whatever that place is, uh I think, rockstar caters that a lot.

T

Gotcha they had an emergency one time. You know we had to take them something you know. So how.

F

About five actually about 500 did you live with 500? No, probably not I'd, say 200, but even I'd say.

A

150 would be probably the number yeah. I have a concern about that low threshold. My concern is.

A

Kids, throwing a party wouldn't have wait, kids, throwing a party, but they.

A

Have someone there who's of age? Who calls you and you deliver booze to this house.

A

And it's only 150 bucks and you know I think 10 kids can scrape together the money to have like.

A

Underage party, that's my company, but they can also drive up and have the underage kid come.

T

In and buy they probably doesn't mean that's different, it's different an underage kid would.

A

Rather, have you deliver it to his house? Rather than have him get in a car, go to a liquor store.

A

Maybe someone's parents seeing him knowing knowing there's a party at the house, it's much safer. It's.

T

A lot of supposition- I guess, but um plus you're not going to serve you're not going to serve an.

E

Underage kid that comes in your liquor store for right now I would. I would just it wouldn't.

A

Be an underage could be a twenty-five year old. I would just point out: I've been the one handling.

S

Like all the wedding, you know things for years and years and years, I've never had.

S

Anything that even remotely presented itself as that type of situation, all of our deliveries.

S

Until we stopped were to the riding club, which there's no way they would ever.

S

Facilitate such a event, I mean it's a members only place they're there for weddings to you know.

S

They've just been to wedding venues, um we did a couple weddings that were at someone's house.

S

But I'm talking about a situation where I show up- and there are caterers around there's big.

S

Tents, there's 200 chairs in the person's backyard. It's clearly a wedding, that's different. I mean it.

S

You know, and that's part of you know I think my training and stuff like that. I would recognize.

S

The situation we're not we're not trying to serve underage people, we're trying to these.

S

People come and they meet with us months ahead of time I mean um we have people emailing us for.

S

August of next year weddings, so I have sit down meetings with these families. It would take.

S

Some uh heavy amount of manipulation and forethought for a very young person.

S

And me to be completely blind to it. I just don't see that situation everywhere. The only thing the.

T

Only reason what I'd like to say is, like I don't mean to fight back on you that it could happen, but.

T

I mean, I think, when you, when you give out these licenses. Okay, christians on the license, he's got.

T

To be a fit person, you make that determination and we've been in business for 30 years.

T

And I think at some point when you offer the license up we're held responsible. So if we.

T

Do something wrong like delivered to that and something goes hey I get penalized just.

T

Like the gentleman was in here before, I think you have to, I mean we're adults in the room.

T

I kind of take it personally, because I mean we try to follow the rules and.

T

And the last thing I want to do, I have young children myself, I mean last thing: I want to do.

T

Is deliver to a house party, my son's, you know, you know this is going to make something clear.

A

I'm not so concerned about you darren. I know you make a policy, everybody else can do it. Yeah.

A

You know you, you will be a pioneer and then all kind of people will we're going to try to follow.

T

I know you're trying to set a set, a parameter for it. I understand I mean I'm for you delivering.

E

The venues it's easy for them, and it's and it's a good business for you, where my issue is, is the the.

E

Minimal price, if you're you're talking 150 you're talking about one bottle of a top-shelf bourbon.

E

I'm at 150, in my opinion, is too low for a venue. Yeah um I mean one. I could probably.

T

Live with 200, I don't think we'd deliver anything under 200. Normally do you know? uh No, I mean I.

S

You know, um no, we haven't done that. I mean I'd, have to pull our history and all that probably.

S

300 yeah would ask you to deliver two hundred dollars worth of alcohol. What kind of event.

A

No, I don't know they don't even they want to be so like. Well, you tell me you can live with it.

S

But give me an example of an event: wedding shower, but baby shower at the riding club, so 20 women, you.

S

Know these days I mean they want to be hands off, they don't mind, spending the money and paying a 50.

L

Delivery fee, it's they come in, they know they can. uh On our website. We have an events planning page.

S

Where they fill out a form, it's kind of modern for westminster, like in terms there's no other.

S

Liquor store saved for one that I know of in the whole county. That puts this type of thing on their.

S

Website it allows customers, you can go right on our website. You can fill out this form. It gets.

S

Emailed to directly to me I reach out, I contact you, it's this like personal service. They really.

S

Like that, and then they just want to be hands off, they want to pay for it. It gets delivered.

S

And their event, you know happens, it's just uh it's the icing on the cake. You know the winning shower.

S

200 bucks- uh I I'm just kind of speaking off the cuff, but maybe two that would be.

S

One of the lower amounts, because it's a smaller amount of people they're only like 20 to 30.

T

Minimal wine coolers or something for easy, 180. Ninety dollars wait. uh We have done a couple.

S

Weeks at the riding club there were smaller events. It would take something. That's only.

S

20 to 40 people to be that low, it wouldn't be common, um but it'd be nice to have the ability.

S

To accommodate that customer when they come in and they want it, you know I it's tough to say no.

S

When they're willing to pay and they're good upstanding people just.

S

Trying to run an event that they want to run. You know it's hard to say no to those people.

E

Yeah, I realize we're setting a precedence here so understood. We have to come up with some something.

E

Reasonable, I don't really think you're setting a precedent, though I mean there was. There- was.

T

The rules of me I got to go back and do some more research, but the rules made years and years that.

T

You allow us and all we had to do at the time I know you're a newborn and it's your prerogative.

T

I'm just stating what has happened, what we do for you we're going to have to allow someone now.

T

Before you send the letter in, and you say, we will be delivered and the person's been delivered will.

T

Be tamp certified and we just notified the board and there was no response. It was just.

T

You need to, let us know, you're going to get do deliveries. That was all they asked at the time.

T

So that's the rule. I've been following, so I, and as soon as like I found out that you guys didn't.

T

Want it we stopped, you know, but that's why we came in you know. So so do you have a written.

A

Do you have written authorization to make those deliveries in the past from another board.

T

I dug through all my stuff I got to look, I don't know, is the file still all attacked from all the.

T

Way back from way way back or you know I mean I could dig through there I mean I'm sure, there's.

T

A letter in here when we're talking specifically the house of lakers to house black shoes now like.

T

Like college, I don't know that I did send anything in at that time. Maybe I did. I don't really.

T

I mean we do weddings there too. I mean those are the the college square and house liquors. I.

T

Don't really like gamber liquors, we have, we have a nice wedding menu down there. The lady loves us.

T

And we do take it, we had been taking it until we found out. We couldn't so I mean we'd still.

T

Like the ability- but I would say gamber lickers would do four in a year. You know, and it's all that.

T

Same vent, you know what was the venue it's down during cold saturday, it's like a farm or something.

A

Yeah and then they do weddings, yeah yeah. I have a cold saturday right, yeah, yeah, yeah.

S

Say something they're ready. So if you set some parameters and you and you approve this and then.

S

Therefore, us, if any other store, you said you weren't necessarily worried about us, but if any.

S

Other store wanted to deliver, they would actually come in here and be questioned by you correct.

S

So you'd be able to ask them some pointed questions about what they're.

S

Intending to do with that ability, um so you get the opportunity right to.

S

uh You know to check with each individual store and what their intentions are.

S

I just I only bring that up, because I understand you you're speaking, to setting a precedent and it.

S

Kind of opens things up for other people, but you would you would get the ability to grill.

S

Those other people what their intentions are, so I don't mean to grill you, oh no. No, I I mean it in a.

G

Bad way, I just meant, like I don't feel for lack of a a synonym. uh You would get to question them.

S

About what their intentions are, so if somebody else was intending to do something that.

S

Is not what you want, we wouldn't find it out by asking them questions.

A

Let me trust underst, but I guess what I'm pointing out is you know um you would have the opportunity.

S

um We'd have opted to judge the applicant yeah, yeah and and and if they're I mean just like.

S

Us if they're saying that that's not what they're intending to do all you can do is take that I mean.

S

I guess I guess, if I understand, I think we just need to find a number and it works. That's what.

T

We're looking for because the problem is like I'm fighting for a lower number only because it's the.

T

United states of america, I, like the freedom. You know I like freedom. I think you know personally.

T

I think we should be able to deliver anything we want to deliver, but that said, I do understand.

T

I have no, it's not profitable for a liquor store to deliver alcohol in that small amount.

T

um Drizzly and all them yeah, they make it away because it's like it's like you know they pick it.

T

Up on the way from somewhere else- and you know there- there's other states that have grocery.

T

Stores and they're picking up groceries at the same time as alcohol, but that's not what we do.

T

Here you know we're strictly, you know if I sell 200 worth of liquor, I'm probably making 20 to 25.

T

Total, it's not worth my gas my time! That's why we charge a fee, because I still have to pay that.

T

Guy and everything's gonna be fifteen dollars an hour pretty soon. You know it's expensive. The only.

A

Thing I care about is the underage party that I I mean that's the only reason I can think of not to.

A

Well, one thing exactly: I know yeah, I understand we don't advertise, I mean I know you're not talking.

T

About us, I'm not saying you're underage party, I I really. I have faith in you, two guys that.

A

You wouldn't be delivering to an underage party, but you're, just one of men. The bottom line is.

T

If they want to deliver to an underage party, I can probably do it. You guys never know. Okay,.

T

But would I do it? No, so if they want to break the rules and do stupid stuff, that's they're going to.

T

Get fined or caught because if those kids get in trouble, break stuff up or try somebody's house.

T

They're going to where'd, you get the alcohol, we bought a house liquors, they delivered it.

T

I mean then I'm going to be in hot water and I don't think I would say that 95 percent of the.

T

Licensees are feel the same way. I don't know the other five percent if they desperate for money, but.

T

I don't think the licensees that I know of would do it. I think you're over worried about it. I mean.

T

We do not want to sell anything to underage kids, I mean I understand, you know we don't yeah.

T

I worry about it, there's so much stress and worry about it. You know, because I'm a moving target as.

T

It is, you know, I mean I I just calculated it up like you were talking about that gentleman. There.

T

You know four year period at the maryland ballot, I serve 800 000 people in a four year period. I mean.

T

That's like that's a lot of bullets to dodge you know, so sometimes you got to put it in perspective.

T

um You know I'm not taking off for that other gentleman, but it sounded like he didn't want to.

T

Start from him either you know, but maybe he needs to I've, taken all your suggestions to.

T

As far as we get everybody to sign, you know as far as knowing the vertical ids and that.

T

Divergent off the subject, but we we pretty much, have our paperwork up or you know we.

T

We have signs up and we've got everything, but we're not against your delivery. That's the thing.

E

We're just trying to come up with a reasonable minimal. I mean 200, it's probably it for wedding.

T

It's probably never going to get down that low, but I mean there are reasons that some people.

T

They could be having a small party and say, like I mean I wanna, I don't wanna just say we're gonna do.

T

Venues because, but we don't, we don't necessarily take calls but like if a friend of mine calls.

T

Me uh and you know, he's got a million-dollar home and he's got all these guests over and he calls me.

T

Hey man, I can't get out of the house right now. I got all these guests in the house and I forgot to.

T

Get this I mean I'd say then I got to tell them. Oh it's going to be 200, I mean. Obviously it's.

T

A friend of mine, I'm going to take it over as a friend, it's not a business. At that point I take.

T

It to my house first and then I take it to his house, but I mean there's ways around everything. I.

T

Think the 200 hour minimum is pretty good. um That does exclude what I just the example I just gave.

T

But um I mean obviously, if I'm going over and he's got a lot of money I'll take him some extra.

T

Stuff to make it 200, but I could also charge him a hundred dollar fee great, I think, to a certain.

S

Extent, what you're trying to say is if there's a retailer out there that wants to serve underage.

S

People they'll do it in their store they're, not going to go out of their way to drive it to an.

S

Underage person I mean that person already lacks a moral compass right um talking about somebody.

E

Doing it intentionally we're talking about a group of kids that I think kids are smarter than that.

T

If I was a young kid, the next thing I do is get a liquor delivery to the house, I'm having a party at.

T

That be the last thing I do, but if I you know, I think your example still involved an adult.

S

Being the face of it, I mean, if you know, if adult comes into our store and buys alcohol.

S

And they're of age and they walk out and they drive home and give it to that party I mean.

S

We did everything we could to begin with if an adult, if all I see in his adult, they call the.

S

Store they come in to meet me. They set this order up. I deliver to the house and I don't.

S

See any kids, I just see an adult that would be an adult who was breaking the law right right right.

A

And criminally their response, yeah, right and- and you are absolved from responsibility, because you.

A

Sold legally to that dog, that's not the situation that we're worried about. Tell explain then, like.

S

What you think could happen, I think I think I think, before we get too deep in this rabbit,.

T

Hole here I mean, I think you got to have some faith and and try it out at 200. If there's an.

T

Issue, um hopefully I don't think there'll be an issue, but if there's a problem with it, we can.

T

Always change and come back and revisit it. You guys are the board to make. You can make changes.

T

I just think making the limit too high kind of precludes a few circumstances where it would be.

T

I I don't feel comfortable thinking about breaking the law. You know the guy. The guy calls me up from.

T

The house and he needs it for his house party and he's- I know- he's 50 years old and his daughter's.

T

Getting married tomorrow and they're having a little party and he forgot to get something.

T

You know, and he said, hey darren, you know when you're way home could you drop this off and it's 150 bucks. I mean I'm going to feel like I'm breaking the law.

T

You know I mean you know: what are you making money if you're going to deliver 150 dollars.

T

I would do it as a favor, some of it's just keeping a customer yeah, that's a favor, but it's still.

T

Technically you know, I brought my delivery, it's still a delivery violence, but it happens to me.

T

I'll be honest with you, while we were sitting here right now, I had an old man. That's a friend of mine.

T

And he left me a voicemail I could play for it. He said he's house bound.

T

Did we make deliveries? If not, if not, don't call me back literally, you know so, do I take.

T

It over to him or not, you know, if you have the authority, would you take a six pack of beer.

A

You just you just now. The only reason I would do it for him is because he's a friend of mine.

T

That would if he called there christian, wouldn't we wouldn't do it. So I'm just saying: there's.

T

Demand for that, but I don't really want to do that. I would probably just take that as a friend I.

T

Wouldn't even charge him, you know because he's 90 years you can do that without our permission. Okay,.

A

You can you can give away your product without a letter from us right. I don't know. I guess we.

F

Give a lot of it away as it is believe me. You've got a lot of friends in four sports. Well, this guy.

T

Probably shouldn't get it anyway, miss with his wife finds out. I got to call her first to get.

T

Permission- let's put it that way: he comes to the mountain. He was on a three drink limit. You know.

H

Well, they come after the store. You know you talk about how licensees request stuff.

H

So you know no women, I mean my friend no, I I don't think. I don't think that if I'm right anytime.

F

You're representing me, you're, so different, it's pathetic what you just said: no, no! What.

T

He just said was like that guy, the guy sitting here was a licensee a minute ago from lorenzo.

T

You know he didn't serve it, but he's still got help responsibility. You know. Are you the licensee.

G

I'm not the licensee, that's where you get off easy. You got somebody else on every one of your.

F

Licenses, no, I mean I I like it that way because, like if something really nice comes up, then, and.

T

Then I always have a backup you can always buy the fifth still. The other I don't want to christian is.

F

I know, can I make a suggestion feel free to shoot it.

C

I'm glad down not loved it if you grant it to the house of liquors and college square.

C

Based on what they have testified to of how they do it that they always meet with people ahead.

C

Of time it's not a, you know, kids, it's not fun deciding on friday that they want to have a party.

C

That night and get alcohol it it would set the precedent, but you could also set the precedent of.

C

Anybody else who asked would have to have a similar.

A

System restriction, a personally meeting with the uh customer. Yes, so you're saying, like I don't know.

K

I'll be honest, I don't know the law, but I don't know how we could really.

T

Police that or no like, in my opinion, we should set it up. I think I appreciate your consideration, but.

T

I think we should pick a number. You should pick a number that you're comfortable with a 500 would.

T

Pretty much I I mean, there's, there's probably 30 of them that are between like 350 and 500 bucks.

T

So that that would procrude a good bit of them. Some weddings only have 20 people. It's not always.

T

100 people wedding, a lot of people are prepping for the wedding. They don't want to take the time.

T

On the day of to have to go, get it because we're usually using a facility that they're not have.

T

Access to so till say friday night and then they want to be your cold. So we put it in the cooler.

T

You know so then, when when they're over there putting their gowns on and everything we bring.

T

It over there, you know- and you know you know the bride's made in the bride's dad and mom. They don't.

T

Want to take the time that so they're willing to pay the 50 fee for us to just drive it over.

T

You know so I mean 200 to 250, but I mean I don't think you're ever going to stop what.

T

You're trying to stop mr barnhart, I mean if, if people are going to break the law and do.

T

Things they shouldn't they're going to in the essence of time. Let's say: 250 will start.

T

Okay, could that include my feed like I always charge 50, so it's 200 plus 50. you just dumped.

F

The head of me, because, if you'd agreed to 250, I was going to ask you what your 50 dollar fee was.

F

And it's going to 50 so you're, collecting, 300 bucks and based upon what you just said, which.

F

I ain't sure is 100 accurate on that order. You're going to make 20 30 off of it, but you're getting.

F

A fifty dollar fee now a lot of times. I give that to whoever delivers like if it's christian.

T

He'll take some of that. That's just the fee varies by distance. Sometimes we wait to feed.

T

If the guy pushes us we're like a car dealer, you know we're trying to they haggle the death.

S

Though I can use that hang on you to death use car dealer, yeah yeah, I mean like if it's if it's.

T

A really difficult person, it's a hard place to go or something we could charge a hundred.

T

We don't have a set fee, but 50 is pretty much the minimum that we would charge.

F

So, in the essence of time 250. I just want to move on here. Okay, yeah, I have no qualms.

T

I'm fine, I have no qualms about you, all, okay, being qualified and so on and so forth.

E

And that doesn't include your uh your 50 charge, so it would be a total of the 300 from capture.

E

We got a form here, do you have any copies of this for there? I think I already already have.

S

I can change the different. I haven't make sure you fill out one of these forms and no problem a year.

F

From now, where you do it, we always love forms to fill out the more you can give us the better.

T

Let me see I'm probably going to fill out 100 of them tonight. It's not definitely that's what I.

T

Do that's why I'm not on the license, I'm just filming. So if I were to call you and order a.

E

23-Year pipe you delivered over, we tell you if you can.

T

Probably tell your good luck, sir. Find a 23-year papi I'll, be clear to myself.

T

I did have a 25-year patent. Oh wow, I didn't deliver that much. I told you, I don't know how it.

F

Was when I bought it well, we appreciate you. I know you had to consider it because it's so thank you.

T

Appreciate it we're yes, we agree with that yeah. So I'm considering the fact that I already sent.

T

The letter in for college paradigm, that was all so we're, approved all of them.

T

We do less there than anywhere. I already said at that point I mean: doesn't the licensee have.

A

To uh we all the licensees did sign the letter that was mailed in or dropped off.

F

So we have a lot of requests from all of his establishments each signed by their licensee.

C

And if, if you buy 300 worth of whiskey, you get two bushel crabs with it. Yes, okay.

F

So we do have, we do have a letter from blah blah blah blah. So we need a motion.

F

To set forth the 250 minimum upon application by the licensees, mr chairman, I knew that the.

A

Application be granted uh for mr barnes's various establishments to deliver um product.

A

With 24-hour notice, as you said, okay, a minimum delivery is 250 and mr barnes and his.

A

Colleagues will keep a record of each delivery and they will check the id of whoever takes delivery.

F

For a second 10 seconds, any further discussion on the motion.

F

Motion's been stated all in favor. Second, five is saying: aye all right.

F

Close no so ordered now. How long do we keep recording here? We're gonna review it here.

F

I'll hold him, I don't have any reason, we'll just put them in a folder yeah keep them in.

T

The office man, let me as long as you need now for for other applicants and so on and so forth.

F

They need to make application and appear before us, I'm asking now. Yes, just they would agree to. Yes.

F

Have an agreement here that darren's all taken care of along with.

F

The other stores, I'm sure, ben and mount airy would like to do.

F

So they must make an application, but but our rule says 250 or more and they must.

F

Fill out the form and keep it on record for a year, and um also just I mean not that I don't think it.

T

Happens that often but like, if we're already approved for that location, if they needed a, we.

T

Forgot some or whatever, and they needed something the same day. We can bring it over to them if need.

T

Be supplement yeah, I mean I don't. I don't think that's an issue, but I just want to make it clear.

T

Okay, you might have a lot more friends, I don't know if I want too many more I'll tell you.

H

You violated them. We did why you can't deliver it, they can't take out well. I said I remembered.

T

It was ice, it was actually ice that I took because they have outright yeah ice. Is a beer.

H

No, it's not. That was like our procedure going forward is, if a class, a store, request, delivery.

F

They must apply to us the licensee with the licensee, and we will have here here.

A

Well, thank you. We won't get you down. Okay. Thank you very much.

H

All right see you later.

H

All right we have, somebody else goes near 230. I don't see anybody else yeah anyway. You know.

F

I need to change it because it does say 250.. um The next item that I got here is the letter from.

F

Christina mclaughlin about vertical id issue with an establishment, but the records show.

F

That uh that letter, request or information will be forthcoming. Okay,.

F

Next item is a one-day liquor license.

F

For an abnormal event for the city of tony town for their annual wine art, music festival may 21st.

F

Any objections, no, um this ongoing event. We've done before one day, liquor license application.

F

From harney far company for an outdoor event on their carnival grounds on may 21st, it's.

H

A new event: well, it's the same day as tonytown, so they must be celebrating up to the north end.

F

Any objections, no no one day liquor license for veterans, appreciation event at the farm.

F

Museum on may the 15th. This is a big event sponsored by the commissioners of carroll.

F

County along with other groups, yes, they expect several thousand people to attend.

F

uh And, as I say, that's sponsored by the county commissioners, any objections, no.

F

Other plans from luna zoo they're, not here.

C

That food was supposed tony was good they're supposed to be at 2 30, but.

H

I guess he's not here in plants from cranberry liquors, requesting approval of the expansion.

F

To an adjacent storefront, so we got a request here and a plan and so forth. Keith. You know what it is.

F

Yes, they bought the building. Next to next to them I mean which one we talk about cranberry.

H

Yeah, okay, which which, when you face the school left side, the left side is where's.

F

The veterinarian there's a vet yeah, there's next one here: okay, oh we're gonna go from square feet.

T

What happened with luna zulu yeah? Would we do a little you didn't do nothing because.

F

You got on aerial up here, 230. well, you've got all the information right. He.

H

If he doesn't all right well, let's get rid of the cranberry liquor sweet all.

F

Right, okay, you want to see the thing all right. That's all right, yeah, any objection.

E

No, I have no injections all right now, we'll go back to little zoo. I skipped over them because.

F

I thought somebody was talking: ludazu wants a an expansion to an adjacent space. Also, they took the.

H

Space to the right of the imaging facing lunar, zoo, blue zoo's in hampstead right next to paul.

H

Hoffman's ice cream, which brought it healthman's ice cream jj, yes, nephew, jane our niece doing.

H

I've seen that yeah, I think they actually with the expansion. They gain two seats.

F

Right with the expansion, they gain two seats, but most of the carryout section.

H

And they spread out the seats they have. They actually have 18 seats over there, but.

H

Overall, totally, they went up to 70 seats because they spread it out more. It's not as tight cramped.

H

In as before, well, this is a good illustration here. You can go in huffmans and slip one before.

F

Some ice cream and there's a chiropractor on the other side of it and you get a drink.

F

In between and get everything set up, no pain, you should not you get rid of your.

H

Drinks and get rid of the pain and get chiropractic fix them yourself.

F

F

I promised somebody we've had them out here about 3 30, so we're moving email from the county line.

F

Cantina, informing the board of a temporary closer they out of canteens or something.

H

um They their managers, the last chef, is going back to mexico for a couple weeks.

H

um And then they're gonna discuss going forward.

H

They're not doing too well. I just went by there two nights ago and finally saw the sign.

F

I knew where it was, but they got a board signed out on this point so uh they're requesting.

F

Temporary closure, for did they tell you how long until the end of april, so the end of april.

H

Or might be longer too, but.

F

Down at the corner, 7-11 yeah letter from wendy johansen, requesting the lord and to.

F

Be allowed to participate in the wine stroll barbecue stroll and the city of westminster.

F

Events, well, we give our husband permission. So is there any objections to wendy's no.

H

But jim would be out there at lord's testing.

F

Plans and requests from sergio's to have a beer garden in front of the restaurant.

H

Not a beer garden but more outdoor seating.

C

It's not it's supposed to be outdoor scene. Well, that's I'm only okay.

F

I'm reading what's in front of me and I'm not a mind reader and look at what he said. It says.

C

Beer garden on what he said: that's why it says beer garden. They had that seating before there.

E

Habaneros, yes, they did dorne covert yeah, but that was on was that on a platform of some sort.

F

My question to you is: do they have the permission of the landlord.

H

I do not know and they need to get site permission from the city of westminster.

N

What the hell does that mean t-o-b-I-s.

F

What does that mean? Where is it ow toby's? That's what it says to be.

A

It says tables, it's just t, that's an a b and the l is is a lower case, but everything else.

H

Is upper case I thought they told me to handle the draw you're gonna ask what the difference was on.

F

Toby the rest are tables so border border pro pending permits, permits and landlord.

F

Here's another one that goes out in the parking lot. You know what any jersey walls.

A

I might have to tell cole right he he he done some work. There.

A

The new landlord and lauren those things that go out there there's concrete things that go out.

A

There so you could open the door over top of them without hitting all right. The last time we were.

A

There remember we uh parked and uh yeah, and you had a hard time getting out here- he's lowered to.

F

Cut the top of them off and cut them trees down stuff like that.

F

I have no objections. I don't either pending all permits are granted okay right.

F

Cinco de mayo, what do they want to do? Request from cinco de mayo westminster to.

F

Be able to sell alcohol in their parking lot from the cinco de mayo celebration.

E

They did this, they do this year, yeah four or whatever they are every year. They put a 10 up.

H

I was going to say: don't they didn't they put a 10 up before and have it out there.

F

Joe, yes, I don't have anything on this sheet. I don't think I missed anything.

E

I don't think you did.

E

Okay, is there any other business to come before this awesome party.

F

If not according to schedule, our next meeting will be on wednesday may 11 2022 at 10 a.m.

F

Assume in this room, if there's nothing else to be brought before this group.

F

Hear ye hear you all in favor of a journal signify saying I opposed.

F