Carroll County, MD Carroll County Board of Zoning Appeals, 25 Aug 2020

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From YouTube: Board of Zoning Appeals August 25, 2020

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https://www.carrollcountymd.gov/government/commissioners/board-of-carroll-county-commissioners-weekly-agenda/

A

Call the board of zoning appeals uh meeting to order and before us we have case number 6240.

A

Before we get started, I see we have mr deckelman who's the applicant on with us, and I just wanted.

A

To go through the procedures that we normally use, I don't see anyone else on at this particular.

A

Point in time, but you as the applicant will have the opportunity to go ahead and lay out your case.

A

For us, uh members of the public will have the opportunity to ask questions of your testimony.

A

Then board members can ask questions of your testimony and then at that point.

A

Anyone else can provide testimony either or against your request and.

A

Then you'll have the opportunity to ask them questions, as will the board uh at that point.

A

We'll go ahead and have an inclusion uh and we will then deliberate the case so.

A

That's that's pretty much the uh the methodology that we'll use for the hearing.

A

So with that, um mr dixon, could you go ahead and introduce the file for us? Please.

B

Okay case 6240 a request for a distance variance to expand an existing pole, barn.

B

The site is located at 1130 pence valley, road westminster, maryland on property zone.

B

A agricultural district in election district, seven by kenneth, j, declan code of public local.

B

Laws and ordinances, section 158.040, a site visit, is tentatively scheduled for august.

B

19 2020 at approximately 9 15 am and about this matter. We have the following documents:.

B

There is a response to joe vance's request to various state and local agencies from mike zep tom.

B

Harris permits and inspections per the requirement of the international residential code, any exterior.

B

Walls and projections within five feet of the property line shall have not less than one.

B

Something uh fire resistant rating.

B

Maybe one hour fire resistant uh fire resistant rating and the signature thomas harris.

B

There are the excitements in the file for the board members.

B

There is a response to joe vance's request from linda d eisenberg secretary for the.

B

Planning commission, after having reviewed the information contained in the attached.

B

Analysis the facts as presented in the application, the relevant portions of the plan.

B

And in accordance with the provision set forth in the land, use article, this variance request.

B

If granted would be consistent with the policies, timing of the implementation of the plan, timing.

B

And development, timing of rezoning development patterns, land uses and densities or intensities.

B

There's august 11 2020 memo from hannah weber, planning technician.

B

The above reference bza case has been reviewed for consistency with the.

B

Policies and recommendations contained in the 2014 carroll county master plan.

B

As amended in 2019, the carroll county, water and sewer master plan and other functional plans.

B

The staff finding is that this request is consistent with the 2014 carroll county master.

B

Plan as amended in 2019 and would not have an adverse effect on the current use of the property.

B

Jovan sent a memorandum to various state local agencies july 30th, 2020.

B

There is a response to joe vance's request from clay black bureau chief development review.

B

There are no chapter 155 code requirements.

B

There's a response from matt shipley carroll, county environmental health department.

B

Proposed use may not be acceptable unless it is demonstrated that there is.

B

An adequate water supply and adequate area for the installation of an initial and two.

B

Replacement septic systems for the proposed use and any existing uses on this property.

B

There's a response from chris christopher p: hen bureau, chief resource management uh comments.

B

No comments: there's a response from deborah bowers program manager, ag land preservation program.

B

Comments not in agricultural land preservation per initials.

B

Hearing notice was posted august 4th 2020 by a scott robinson zoning inspector.

B

There's an august 3rd 2020. notice, a public hearing for this case.

B

July 30th 2020 notice, the public hearing to the applicant adjoining property owners and arrested parties.

B

And then there's an application for setback barriers to expand an existing pole, barn.

B

No there's a document in here um with the stamp state of maryland property line, surveyor.

B

And there are photographs uh in the file. I would ask that the probably entered in the evidence.

A

Do I have a motion to enter the file and evidence.

A

Do I have a second exactly here? Okay, all in favor, aye,.

A

Aye aye motion passes and we will enter the file into evidence.

A

um Mr deckelman, it appears that you're, the only one on other than staff or the board of.

A

Zoning appeals, um could you please raise your right hand uh and take the oath sir? Do you.

A

Swear or fun, or and or affirm under penalties of perjury, that the testimony you're about to.

A

Give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. I do very good okay, mr deckelman.

A

The case is yours, so you want to go ahead and present your case to us. Please.

C

Yes, thank you for the opportunity um we are looking to expand the pole, barn.

C

For uh for a shop use and possibly rv storage in the future,.

C

The uh the corner of the building does come right up against my property line as.

C

Noted in the drawings and in the pictures that I submitted the the other side of that property line.

C

There's about a 25 foot space to a right away. That's a driveway.

C

To the neighbor's two neighbors property, both neighbors are okay with me doing this.

C

That piece of 25 30 feet property couldn't be used for anything else.

C

Just because of the flight layout, the the other side of the driveway is in forest. Preserve.

C

Currently, um I spoke to both of those um the owner of that property and and the other impacted.

C

Neighbor before starting any of this procedure, um we come to find out last week we do did have.

C

Somebody apparently call in and say I had a quote welding business at my house, which is uh not true.

C

At all, we do have a home business that we uh we sell stuff online and but we do not manufacture.

C

Anything there and and this building is not being expanded for the sole purpose of the business. It's.

C

For mostly personal use, the business is actually uh reside in my house, um so I I don't know, I'm.

C

Assuming you all know that that uh complaint or statement or whatever, um but I had talked to scott.

C

Robinson about it I have talked to joe about it. I submitted another zoning application. I guess which.

C

I was still I'm still very unclear on it, something about home occupancy. I don't quite understand.

C

What that's about, or no no mention that on the document that I filled out, um the only occupancy.

C

I was ever familiar with was when I built my house. I had to get a use of occupancy permit.

C

So I'm unsure, if that was accepted, I never heard anything about that or the status of that second.

C

Application and payment that I made um so I guess that's really all I have to say we.

C

um Yeah, I guess that's really all I have to say for now.

A

Okay, it appears that no one from the public is on for this hearing. So in absence of that.

A

uh Board members, do you have any um questions of mr deckwoman.

D

What is the required setback for the edition.

C

uh You're asking me, sir, what the requirement is. Yes,.

C

I well, I was under originally understood that that the setback was 20 feet.

C

um And then that's what the that's! What this hearing was about to uh to reduce that down to.

C

Actually, a couple inches um okay, so I guess I'm not quite following your your questions.

D

Your knowledge is 20 feet, I'm just trying to get an idea. How much of a variance is requested.

D

So you're saying to your knowledge, the required setback is 20 feet to my knowledge. Yes, sir, okay.

D

What what will the edition look like with regard to exterior colors and materials.

C

The same as it is now, the red metal siding white roof we plan to. If we can proceed, we plan to.

C

um Pull the trusses off of the existing structure and replace with all new trusses. So it looks like.

C

One building not looks so it doesn't look like a added on um you know, building to another building.

C

It'll it'll look like a a seamless structure. Okay, so the colors and materials are going to.

D

Match the existing structure and the new structure, the finished structure will have a pitched roof.

C

Yes, that's correct, I do have. uh I do have a set of plans. I don't know if I submitted.

C

A picture of the plans or not, but I do have a set of um preliminary plans anyway, not vinyl.

C

But a preliminary drawings of what it would look like and one last question: I noticed a.

D

Number of attractive trees along the driveway will any trees be removed. For this addition,.

C

Along the driveway, no to the rear of the building, some smaller ones that are about 15 foot tall now.

C

Would be pretty close but but they're uh nothing. None of the large trees know. Okay and.

D

I just want to clarify that.

D

The proposed structure is not going to be used for commercial purposes. It's.

D

There was a reference to home occupation, it sounds like maybe you're applying for a.

D

Home occupation, but that's going to be confined to the dwelling, is that true.

C

Well, I'm I'm still unclear on this whole home occupation thing. It wasn't explained to me very.

C

Well, by why I talked to joe a couple times, I talked to scott robinson, who apparently lives.

C

On my street um or down the street from me, um so the the the business we have a business.

C

It's primarily in our house, the um the current building we have is used to store some of the.

C

Materials not materials, the products that we sell um on pallet shelving in the back of that building.

C

If nothing's kept outside or anything like that, um so the primary use for this new building.

C

Is not for the business as the business is currently 90 in the in the house right now,.

C

Except for some storage and the existing pole building, I don't have any other questions.

E

What is your business.

C

We we sell, uh we sell accessories and parts for small compact tractors.

C

Like small, under 30 horsepower tractors like john deere's kubota's.

C

Etc, we most of our products are manufactured up in the pa area, lancaster, afraid area, the mennonite.

C

Job shops up there and then the products are delivered to us. We sell them online via a.

C

Website and we, we utilize the post office to do all our shipping. We we currently drive to.

C

The post office every day we don't have, uh we don't have that those packages picked up.

C

Currently, um and that's all done right out of our house, we've been uh we've been an llc for.

C

Well, since 2013 we've been in llc.

C

Thank you any other questions of board members.

F

I have no further questions.

A

uh Mr deckelman, I have a question uh we're we're tasked with uh in in granting a setback.

G

Variance uh from what the code is.

A

We need to see that not adhering to the code, in other words, going less than 20 feet. As you stated.

A

Would be practical difficulty or an unreasonable hardship can? Can you tell us.

A

How putting this building other than where you're requesting.

A

Would cause you practical difficulty or undo hardship, unreasonable hardship? I'm sorry.

C

Okay, well, the obvious question: that um would be: why not expand it to the left side of the building.

C

Which is you know on my more on my property um and the reason is our septic tank is right there and.

C

The line to the septic in the drain field is there. So if we were to expand to the facing the building.

C

Obviously, if we expand to the left side towards the house we would have to, um we would have to.

C

Move or alter the septic system in some way, um so that would obviously be a huge.

C

Hardship for lack of a better word, as you stated, or uh you know next impossibility. I guess.

C

It would be so that's why we are requesting to go to the right side.

A

Okay, a follow-up question: I and I don't see it here on.

A

On our um uh document that we that I have in front of me, what is the acreage of your property.

C

2.36, okay, thank you um board members. Any further questions.

D

I'm curious whether mr devos has any comments.

H

Or I can add some clarity about if needed, on the uh during the investigation. uh For this case, we.

H

Did find out that mr declan was operating the business on property? We did an investigation.

H

It appears to us that he is operating a home occupation, as he indicated everything's pretty.

H

Much in the house and he's not having any people come to the house so as part of this process, we.

H

Recommend and suggested that he apply for the home occupation, which is an accessory use in this zone.

H

It does require a zoning administrator hearing, so he has filed. I think it was on the 18th of august.

H

He did file for a home occupation with our zoning administration office, so at.

H

This point in time he is moving through the process with the business for home occupation.

A

Thank you, mr doe. This um any any questions concerning that it sounds as if mr deckelman is.

A

Wasn't aware of this and uh is now trying to rectify the home occupation, business.

A

Any other questions board members: okay, mr deckelman um presentation of testimony and.

A

Evidence is now closed and summations are in order. Would you like to offer any some ancient comments.

C

I have nothing further to add. Thank you.

A

Okay, the hearing and record of this case is now closed and in accordance with yoga meetings,.

A

After maryland, the board will now consider the case board members who wants to start.

A

Mr works: well, I I don't have any.

D

Significant comments I mean it is a large structure. It.

D

Is a significant variance, uh it doesn't appear to be any opposition.

D

And the question of the home occupation- I I guess ideally would have been nice to.

D

Hear that case concurrently with this one and.

D

So I'm I'm inclined to vote in favor of the request.

A

Okay, ms zachary, but before you go, mr simmons, I see you clicked on.

A

Before we go there and mr delvis correct me if I'm wrong, but the home occasion only needs.

A

To go before the zoning administrator, not the board of zoning appeals is that correct.

H

That is correct. The only way we get to the board zoning appeals if it is appealed by.

H

The applicant or somebody from the public, that's correct: okay, very good. Mr simmons.

F

Have no further questions. uh The explanation was adequate to me that I'm going to vote in favor.

A

Oh gary, gary go ahead uh for me, the uh compelling argument was that he.

E

The question is: is this of his own creation or not? If it is of his own creation, we should deny it.

E

For me, the compelling piece of information was that if he went the other direction, it would.

E

Encroach upon the septic system, therefore, I see as as not of his own creation and will vote in favor.

A

Okay, misters um wait a minute: where are we at miss eckard? I'm sorry. I think the fact that there's no.

I

Objections from the neighbors is very compelling. um It's next to a raid away. There appears to be no.

I

Other usable scenario for that land between mr deckerman's property line and the right-of-way.

I

And it's was a compelling argument, the location of the septic system that he is not able to.

I

Expand to the left side of the building, so I am prepared to vote in favor of the variance.

A

Okay, last call for any comments.

A

They I was very reluctant when I saw the file and actually when we went and looked.

A

And saw four inches, it's not very far when you're sitting in the neighbor's driveway.

A

uh However, uh I think mr geckleman did prove that uh in his testimony didn't demonstrate practical.

A

Difficulty or unreasonable hardship, and that has to do with the um septic area present septic area.

A

And that there was not any um in the side the sign was supposed to. We went out there, so it's not like.

A

It wasn't uh posted, it was. That was very evident and there was no.

A

Opposition from the neighbors, so uh again I I have. I have no problem with with the request.

A

Okay, so board members. Somebody want to make a motion.

D

I'll make a motion in case 6240, I move that the board approved the requested setback, variance.

A

Okay, so I have a motion and a second is there any further discussion on the motion.

A

Okay, all those in favor, please raise a hand.

A

All opposed looks like it's a unanimous, unanimous decision. Our oral decision will become final upon.

A

A written decision which will be issued within 30 days uh unless otherwise extended by the board.

A

The board's decision may be appealed by filing a petition for judicial review with the clerk.

A

Of the circuit court for carroll county, in accordance with the provisions of chapter 200,.

A

Title vii of the maryland procedure, the appeal must be filed within 30 days of the date of the.

A

Board's written decision, thank you very much and the hearing for case number 6240 is over. Thank you.

A

uh Call the board of zoning appeals um back back in session and uh our we will have before us.

A

Thompson, gas llc, kevin kaiser 6239, mr dixon, could you go ahead and introduce the file for us? Please.

B

Okay case 6239 a request for conditional use for for a three thirty thousand.

B

Dollar, propane storage, tank in i2 zone. The site is located at 633, stone, chapel road.

B

Westminster maryland on property zone i2, heavy industrial district in election district, seven.

B

By thompson, gas llc, kevin kaiser code of public local laws and ordinances, sections, 158, 108.2.

B

And 158.040 a site visit is tentatively scheduled for august 19 2020 at approximately 9 30 a.m.

B

In the file of this matter, we have the following documents: site minutes for the board members.

B

There is a response to joe vance's request of air state and local agencies from mike zep tom.

B

Harris permits and inspections comments. The property referenced in this case is currently.

B

In violation with chapter 170, code of public local laws and ordinances of carroll, county.

B

At this time, this office recommends that the various be denied when approved.

B

A building an electrical permit will be required. Signature thomas harris.

B

There is a august 18 2020 letter from hannah from linda d, eisenberg secretary.

B

To the planning commission, after having reviewed the information contained in the.

B

Attached analysis, the facts as presented in the application, the relevant portions of the plan.

B

And in accordance with the provision set forth in the land use article, this conditional use request.

B

If granted would be consistent with the policies, timing of the implementation of the planned timing.

B

And development, timing of rezoning development patterns, land uses and densities or intensities.

B

There's an august 11 2020 memo from hannah weber, planning technician the above reference bza case.

B

Has been reviewed for consistency with the policies and recommendations contained in the.

B

2014 carroll county master plan, as amended in 2019, the city of westminster, 2009, comprehensive plan.

B

Carroll, county water, sewer master plan and other functional plans.

B

The staff finding is that this request is consistent with the 2014 carroll.

B

County master plan, as amended in 2019 and the city of westminster, 2009 comprehensive plan.

B

And would not have an adverse effect on the current use of the property.

B

There is a response from the zoning administration um comments.

B

Conditional use in the i2 zoning district location of the proposed use is in conformance with setback.

B

Requirements a site plan and zoning certificate will be required, signed thomas devilbiss.

B

There's a response to joe vance's request from clay black bureau chief development review.

B

A site plan is required for chapter 155 of the carroll county code of public local laws.

B

Signature clay, black.

B

There's a response to joe vance's request from matt chipley carroll, county environmental health.

B

Department comments, no comment: there is a response from christopher p hand, bureau chief resource.

B

Management variable straightened buffer must be determined, storage.

B

Tanks are not allowed in buffer per chapter 154.

B

Tank is proposed within 10 vertical feet of stream comply with flood plain code, chapter 153.

B

There is a response from deborah bauer's program manager, agland, preservation, program.

B

Comments not in agricultural land, preservation per.

B

Se, initials hearing notice was posted august 4th 2020 by scott robinson zoning inspector.

B

This is august 3rd, 2020 notice, a public hearing for this case.

B

Jovan sent a july 30th 2020 notice of public hearing to the applicant.

B

And joining property owners and interested parties.

B

Then there is a application for conditional use for a 30.

B

000 gallon propane storage tank in in the i2 zone.

B

The application includes, I see, two photographs and I see.

B

A plan from drs and associates land design, consultants.

B

I would ask that the file be entered into evidence. You have a motion to enter the following evidence.

I

Some moves second.

F

Second, very good: I have a motion a second to move the following evidence: all in favor raise a hand.

A

Okay, we will go ahead and move the file into evidence uh before we get started, see have a.

A

Call or two that's come in, uh we have mr miller on the phone, and we have mr kaiser with us. Virtually.

A

uh Caller two, uh are you, are you have you called in for this case or the the case after this.

J

uh Hi, it's scott miller, again: thompson gas, I'm general counsel for thompson gas part of this.

J

Part of the thompson gas team for this hearing.

A

Mr miller now there's another caller: can you identify yourself? Are you with this case or.

A

Another case uh this is a dance daily with grs and associates we're the ones that submitted the.

K

Application for for the conditional use- okay, very good, mr staley, that that that lets me know who.

A

You are okay with that, um mr kaiser and uh um mr miller, mr staley's is familiar with our procedures.

A

But mr kaiser, as the applicant uh you can, uh or mr miller uh can go ahead and present your case.

A

uh It doesn't appear, anyone else is online with us, but if they are, they can ask questions.

A

Of your testimony and at that point, then, the board members can ask questions your testimony.

A

Other people have the opportunity to provide testimony if they come online and.

A

um Then we will have a solution uh time period and then we will deliberate the case. But before.

A

We get started if anyone plans on testifying. Could you please raise your right hand and take an oath.

A

Do you swear or affirm under penalties of perjury, that the testimony you're.

A

About to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. Yeah scott never says yes,.

E

Mr chair, before you proceed, I believe that I should recuse myself thompson. Gas is our propane.

E

Supplier and has a monopoly to the community which I live. So I'd like to recuse myself.

A

Very good, um dr duncanberger, we will accept your recusal. Thank you.

A

Okay, very good.

A

Please, before you begin speaking uh state your name address and occupation and spell.

A

For the record, your last name so, mr kaiser, with that, I guess I'm going to hand it over to you.

L

Thank you. uh So my name is kevin kaiser. I am the director of real estate for thompson, gas.

L

Address 5260 west view drive suite 200, frederick, maryland 21703.

L

My name is my last name is spelled k-e-y-s-e-r.

L

So thompson gas is a retail propane provider.

L

Serving residential commercial and industrial customers in 21 states.

L

The proposed westminster bulk propane storage plant at the stone chapel business park.

L

Is a supply point to facilitate servicing existing and new customers in carroll county.

L

The proposed plant is a satellite facility and will not be manned.

L

Thompson gas has existing block plans in baltimore, clarksville and boonesboro maryland.

L

Personnel are located in baltimore and boonesboro thompson. Gas will lease approximately 20 000.

L

Square feet or a half acre of land from stone, chapel business park llc under a five-year lease.

L

In this market, we anticipate maintaining a split of.

L

Approximately 70 percent residential propane sales and 30 percent commercial and industrial.

L

The plant will include one thirty thousand gallon bulk propane storage tank. The plant.

L

Will be fenced and secured within the stone chapel property, including crash protection.

L

The proposed facility will be accessed by three thompson, gas and employees. Ultimately, we will.

L

Start initially with one delivery driver and expand to a maximum of two based on demand like.

L

Likely within one to two years, we expect to add one service technician in year. Two.

L

Who will operate out of the baltimore office to serve the carroll county market?.

L

The public will not vis visit this facility.

L

One to two propane delivery trucks called bobtails will be parked at the facility overnight in the.

L

Secured fenced in area the plant will be supplied by propane transport trucks which are tractor.

L

Trailers with 9 000 gallon capacity, we anticipate 30 to 50 deliveries to the plant annually.

L

In the first one to two years, potentially increasing to 70 loads per year,.

L

70 of this volume will occur from october through april with 30 percent during the.

L

Summer or off season months, which will mainly include commercial business,.

L

So, overall, that's an average of one load per week and sometimes two during the peak season.

L

In terms of traffic impact transports generally deliver between the hours of 9 00 a.m and 3 p.m.

L

Avoiding peak traffic hours for the pob tails thompson, gas employees report between.

L

6 a.m and 6 30 a.m, to pick up the bobtail trucks and return and return to the yard after their.

L

Deliveries between 3 and 3 30 p.m, also avoiding peak hours entering and exiting the property.

L

The plant will have no impact on property values or on the peaceful enjoyment of nearby.

L

Homes by residents propane operations are safe and innocuous. The plant will.

L

Meet all applicable regulations and fire codes and will emit no odors.

L

Fumes dust nor create any vibration, glare or noise that will impact the surrounding properties.

L

The proposed use is compatible with the overall use of the stone chapel business park, which is.

L

Located in an area of more intense industrial uses such as the martin marietta stone quarry.

L

And the performance food group, it's also adjacent to active railroad tracks.

L

And that is all I have unless anyone has questions.

A

Yeah, I don't see anyone from the public. That is um mr miller. You you stated that.

A

Your general counsel for the applicant is that correct. Yes, I'm I'm employed by thompson, gas.

J

And I'm their in-house counsel. Yes, sir okay, I just want to make sure you weren't counsel, for.

A

A neighborhood in the area or anything or representing someone else in the community.

A

Okay, very good um board members. Any questions of mr kaiser's testimony.

D

So, according your comments, it's my understanding. There won't be any retail sales at this location.

D

You won't have any customers coming to the site to purchase propane. That is correct.

D

Are there any variances needed for this request.

D

And the reason I asked that I I'm confused about the comments from.

D

Public works, bureau permits and inspections that uh recommends the.

D

Recommendation that the variants be denied so that I don't understand if.

D

Our variance is requested and I'm not sure why the denial is recommended in this case.

K

If I could this is, this is dance daily with drs and associates. I'm here with the owner and I think.

K

He can probably address the comments that came out of um permits and inspection concerning the.

K

Building permits or the or the violations that he's under right now, if I could I'm going to.

K

Pass you over to him. Let him explain that part to you and then what he's done. I would like to.

K

Make a few statements concerning the just the location of the site and, what's around.

K

Us and everything for the board's benefit. Yes, mr stale you'll have that opportunity, uh but before.

A

The individual that owns the property uh can speak. um I need them to go ahead and I'll. Take a note.

A

uh He already did the elf has given we all raised our hand and said I do okay, very good.

A

So he is with you, mr staley. Is that what you're saying? Yes, that is correct? Okay, very good.

A

And then please state your name address and occupation and spell for the record your last name.

A

Good go ahead: uh kenneth shane, mcclay, 4321, bartolo road sikesville, maryland 21784 last name is mcquay.

M

And I am the owner of the stone chapel business park. um I did speak with tom harris this morning.

M

So the main concern is, is the uh is the bathroom uh access uh for some of the tenants um so.

M

That's the main concern he does want to come out there and uh and view the site um I I did.

M

Call him to ask him: you know why he wanted. There is no variance. You know that we're.

M

We're asking for, um but I did schedule appointment to meet with him about.

M

You know the bathroom access from the tenants. As far as um you know, they need to be in a common.

M

Area and they have to be within 500 feet of the tenant space, so um I I think we're going to be.

M

Able to comply with all that without a problem. The one tenant in the back is further than 500 feet.

M

But um currently he's going to be moving out, so um I I think we're going to be fine. I told tom after.

M

This meeting that I was going to reach out to him and mike zepp and set up a meeting on site to.

M

To to see exactly what they need me to do, I did apply for two of the zoning certificates.

M

For um for two of the existing tenants- and um I was really it went through health department- it.

M

Went through everything I was really waiting for approval on that and I hadn't heard anything with.

M

The cobit and everything everything's been really slow with the permit office, but.

M

So and then we just got this comment late last night. That kind of blindsided me because we've.

M

Been checking to make sure there wasn't any comments from neighbors or any government.

M

Officials and then we got this thing at like four o'clock last night, but um I I did reach out to him.

M

This morning and um and I I've worked with tom numerous times on other projects and um and I.

N

Know tom well, and um you know he said, he'll meet me out there and we'll work through any any issues.

M

That they have as far as any building goes on the building. um You know everything there is pretty.

M

Existing we haven't done any kind of uh work, but whatever permits wants us to do we're gonna. Do it.

D

Okay, thank you in the information that was emailed to the board members.

D

I didn't see a plot plan or a site plan. It's not not clear to me exactly where, on the site, this.

D

Is a large site exactly where, on the site, this proposed uh storage tank is going to be located.

D

Is there somebody can show us that information or clarify that? Yes, if you would, this is dan. Stalin.

K

Vrs and associates 52 winter street westminster maryland two one, one: five.

K

Seven uh staley s-t-a-l-e-y: uh we did submit a site plan with the applications. I'm not.

K

Sure why you hadn't received that, but to give you a little background of this site.

K

uh Of course, it's at the intersection, it's the southwest corner of our southeast corner of.

K

Stone chapel and avondale road it at one time is the old shelter system, uh building components, site.

K

Where they made, uh you know, building components for uh residential construction. It was later.

K

After as they expanded their company and moved back into, westminster was later sold to green.

K

Pilot company, who, uh I guess, produced wood piles. I wasn't really involved with that part of the.

K

Or was not involved at that time um from what I can tell when greek pilot moved in there, they kind.

K

Of ran the site into the ground and since shane is borderline seems, like he's cleaned it up. Quite a.

K

Bit and got it operational again uh to give you a little background of what's around our site.

K

To the south and east of us is uh existing for forest conservation movements, uh the the forest.

K

Was planted approximately 20 years ago, so it is maturing into a to a nicely uh appearing forest.

K

Right now, beyond that uh to the south and east of us, is avondale uh acres, which is a residential.

K

Subdivision again that was uh developed about 20 years ago, mature homes there right now.

K

To the west of us is uh his farmland on the other side of avondale road to the north of us.

K

Is maryland, midland, railroad and beyond that is? Is a low-lining uh flood plain area with again.

K

Forest on it, so the site, the site's fairly well hidden from just the general public.

K

Again, the site's been fairly cleaned up from the time to change, bought it um the location.

K

Of the the propane storage tanks is on the southwest corner of this site, which would be.

K

uh It's it's when the plan right now is set back 100 feet from uh stone, chapel, road and.

K

100 feet from the southern property line and then in that area is a a fenced area of about a half an.

K

Acre that would contain the storage tank and then truck storage for thompson gas with a fenced area.

K

That has, I think, three gates to it for access for different purposes. For the you know, supply truck.

K

There are bob tails and I guess that's it, the the other thing that was again I'm kind of like shane.

K

Where I think we go blind side, we had for comments from the agencies or any anyone from the public.

K

And we didn't and the ones that were read often early in the in the meeting here we have.

K

Not received so you know, we had a pre-submittal conference when, uh when thompson gas came on board.

K

With a pure development review and the the tanks right now are sitting on an existing gravel lot.

K

And the tanks and the propane tanks we set up on, I guess I'll call them a concrete pier so.

K

The disturbance to the site to get thompson gas in here is very minimal. It's less than 5.

K

000 square feet and because of that, I thought that we would be exempt from pretty much all.

K

The county codes, which would be storm water, forest conservation, flood, plain fuel, resource management.

K

Grading sediment control now, if, if there is, if any one of those agencies has a problem with the plan,.

K

I mean we will certainly address those to satisfy those agencies, but.

K

Again, had we had we known that maybe earlier on, we could address them and had a plan that was maybe.

K

More, uh I guess, being more capable being being approved by those agencies before this meeting.

K

So I apologize for that, but again we we just didn't know so you know my feelings. Are the.

K

The use fits the the itu district. uh You know the stone chapel business park is is more like flex.

K

Space where, because of the size of the buildings in there and the people, it is that he's running to.

K

There's gonna, be you know, tenants coming and going as as this project moves forward, just because of.

K

The the nature of the business and everything um uh as as kevin uh identified you folks that.

K

The the traffic from his business is going to be very, very minimal um because of other work. I've.

K

Done in that neighborhood out there, I've got a traffic study that was prepared by traffic.

K

Group back in july of 2018 and the traffic numbers for that intersection are very low.

K

The numbers coming out of stone chapel park for um a three-hour morning period was.

K

Two trips a day and in the evening was was one trip so now, of course, things have probably.

K

Increased since that time, because there's more tenants there now than it was back then so again.

K

If there's any questions you have of me or the site, please ask okay. One final question:.

D

The comments provided by christopher hayne bureau chief resource management, he made comments about.

D

The variable stream buffer and floodplain regulations.

D

So my question is: is the has the variable stream buffer been determined? uh Does it comply with the.

D

Stream buffer requirements and does the location comply with all the floodplain regulations.

K

Well, no, it has not and again when we had our pre-submittal conference, uh I mean we had a plan.

K

Showing where this site was going to be located at that time, and I believe that, because we were less.

K

Than 5000 we were exempt from their code, so um if, if there is something that needs to be done, we.

K

Certainly will comply um again, the tanks are set back or the fenced area is set back, 100 feet from.

K

Stone chapel road, but there is a I'm going to call it a swale between stone, chapel and where these.

K

Tanks are located so, if the, if it's determined, if that's a stream or an intermission stream, we.

K

Need to comply with your resource management code, or, I guess really water resource management code.

K

We, of course, we're going to have to do it or we won't. We won't get that agent to sign.

K

Off or our zoning certificate or building firm? Well, if there is a problem with the stream buffer.

D

Is there an alternate location on the site? The facility can be located well I'd. Maybe.

K

Let change off to that I mean because we can push the the uh the the tank area further up.

K

The hill and further away from the street there's a that whole south end of the site was a park, was.

K

A gravel parking lot that was used by shelter system when they were there, so I mean we can.

K

Move around within that parking area or that stone that stone lot and still stayed. You know under the.

K

5 000 square feet to for disturbance which will keep us out of a lot of the county codes. I mean.

K

This is this, this site. What thompson gas wants to do is pretty much minimal impact to this site.

D

I don't have any further questions of the applicant at some point. I have a question for mr delvis.

A

Okay, any other questions of mr staley's testimony.

A

I I'll get a question from mr staley, so what is the requested variance in this case? I don't think.

K

We're asking for any bearings we're asking for a conditional use for propane storage.

A

There's no variances, so what is all we're looking at is a 30.

A

000 gallon propane storage tank in the i2 is a conditional use. So that's the only thing.

A

We're approving is the conditional use, so would that be correct either mr delabus or mr dixon.

H

That is correct, it is commercial use.

H

And it requires the conformance with setbacks uh per 158.040, which they are meeting, those setbacks.

A

Okay, so that's that's all we're all we're doing is granting conditional use.

A

uh For this, the way it's written up, maybe is a little misleading, so that could be leading to the.

A

Illusion that maybe some of us have board members any questions of any testimony.

A

And and if not we'll go to mr works and he can ask questions of the double bits.

D

Yes, uh mr delvis, the comments regarding the stream buffer and the floodplain regulations.

D

Are there any issues here we need to be concerned about.

D

It it's not necessarily clear cut the proposed specific location of this facility.

D

Is is an appropriate location? Do you have any? Can you elaborate on this sure? Let me just step back.

H

One one step and say that what's happening at this location is actually going from a single.

H

Use which was the pallet company and before that it was a trust company which I think.

H

Somebody had already alluded to and it's going to a multiple use area, as mr mcquay referred to.

H

It like a business park, and so there are multiple uses that are being have been proposed out. There.

H

uh Most of them will require zoning certificates because we do not have a lot to.

H

Have zone certificates for them now we have been discussions with mr mcquay regarding an overall.

H

Site plan for this property, which identifies all the uses that are there now and proposed.

H

Ensuring that the site complies with all the codes and all that we need to.

H

It needs to adhere to and that bonus certificates are issued for all those uses out there.

H

So, what's going to happen here with this use specific use, is it will be.

H

Included into the overall site plan for the property that we're looking at now.

H

And it will have to comply with whatever codes that are required at that time. For this property.

D

So if the board grants the conditional use, they still have to go through the.

D

Development review process and they have to demonstrate they have a suitable location for.

D

The storage tank they have a site plan process, that's correct, so at the site process the.

A

Traffic study will be required and uh sight distances will be looked at. I was.

A

A little concerned when we made our visit out there uh looking to the left, which would be.

A

Towards martin marietta quarry uh the chain link fence is not very far off of the white line and.

A

In the vehicle that we were in, uh it was a little problematic looking in the in the southbound.

A

Direction and so that will that will be looked at at that time. Mr double bill.

A

We will be determining once we get a conceptual site plan submitted to us. What review processes.

H

Will need be complied with with the site plan process at that time. Yes, whether that is something.

H

That we look at, I can't tell you for absolute short just a moment, but we will be looking at.

H

Site plan components when we get something in and look at this on a more comprehensive level.

A

In that site, in that site plan review process, is it a possibility that the entrance to that.

A

Property would be moved, maybe further south, so that it would be slightly further away from the.

A

Railroad tracks, considering that there would be tractor-trailer loads of propane coming in.

H

Right now, mr bail, I can't I can't speculate, you know what may happen with the site plan review.

H

Process, obviously, okay, very good. Thank you, mr devil. This uh board members any questions of.

A

Any of the testimony we'll just open it up to any of the testimony uh that we've had so far.

A

um Mr staley, did you say you had some further comments or you're good to go at this point.

K

I think I'm good to go right now. Okay, so mr stanley or mr kaiser would any of you.

A

Like to provide summation comments, kevin um the only thing I'll say is, uh you know we're.

L

You know we're we're anxious to uh to to have this supply point. Now. We have existing customers.

L

In the in carroll county in the westminster area- and you know we're.

L

Running out of baltimore or boonesboro to service those, sometimes out of clarksville.

L

And um you know it's a we really like to grow our business in that area. um There's a big residential.

L

Demand out there for propane, um so we'd love to be part of the community um said we're we're.

L

We're an established company in 21 states, um you know we, uh we have a um a department within.

L

A company that does nothing but safety, um so we are very safe company, we're well managed and and.

L

And financially solvent, so we'd love to be a part of the carroll county community out there and have.

L

The storage set up- and uh you know one thing- I've seen in working with shane and dan on this.

L

Property is you know it's already, it already looks a lot better than the first time I drove in there.

L

um They had just taken out 20-foot piles of sawdust and- and it was quite a you know- quite.

L

An eyesore back in there and shane's um vision for it is, is going to be, I think I think, is a.

L

Great use and is going to improve it greatly um in terms of the the multi-tenant use of the building.

L

And and the land- um and I think it's going to be great for um economic development and for the.

L

For the community uh very low impact in terms of any any impacts on property values or anything.

L

Like that, I think it's a positive all the way so anyway, just uh we're anxious to get this uh get.

L

This done and approved, and and be part of the uh community out there. Thank you uh for all your time.

J

Mr chair, this is scott miller from thompson. Gas have a few summary comments. If I may.

J

Absolutely go ahead. Thank you again, scott miller, thompson, gas, general counsel, 5260.

J

Westview drive red suite 200, frederick maryland last name is spelled miller, m-I-l-l-e-r.

J

um Just in in summation, I I believe it's important uh to focus on what is before.

J

uh You today for approval and has been, has been clarified. This is a uh a conditional use.

J

Approval there are other approval processes that this application or excuse me, this use.

J

Before it is, is ultimately permitted by uh the county that it has to go through, you know other.

J

Reviews site plan, as as has been mentioned, and I believe, a number of the comments, um although.

J

They're certainly helpful and and provide guidance uh with respect to uh the ultimate.

J

uh You know development and use of our particular part of this business park, uh some of which is, I.

J

I heard them actually relate to other uses things like bathrooms and things of that nature. This is.

J

An unmanned facility, it's essentially a tank, that it sits in the middle of a of a yard uh that is.

J

Accessed uh uh you know at intermittent times through throughout the day throughout the week.

J

So just I want to just clarify what what is before the board: it's, whether or not this use.

J

Meets the criteria for conditional use, I believe our application and the testimony today does.

J

Establish that any comments uh relative to a stream buffer compliance and things of that nature.

J

Would be reviewed and dealt with at the site planned stage and yeah. We believe we're confident.

J

That we can uh meet those requirements as per uh the testimony this morning, so unless.

J

You have any other questions for the thompson gas team. We would respectfully request approval.

J

Of this conditional use application, and thank you, everyone for your time this morning,.

A

Okay, uh the hearing and record of this case is now closed in accordance with.

A

The open meetings after maryland, the board, will now consider the case board members.

I

I'll go first, okay. I think this is an excellent location for this use. um By all appearances, it.

I

Is compatible with the surrounding land uses? I don't envision any adverse effects from.

I

A propane storage tank on this site- I listen to the testimony. I concur that this site has been.

I

Substantially improved since the purchase by mr mcquay and I'm confident that any.

I

Environmental issues will be addressed during the site plan. It's like the planned development.

I

Process so I'm ready to vote in favor of granting the conditional use.

I

I agree with lisa uh excellent presentation by uh mr mcquay and mr kaiser.

F

Wish other people would be as succinct and clear. Thank you very much for your presentation.

A

Hey mr words, the proposed use. As far as the character of the area I mean the site does have a.

D

Definite industrial character um and just based on that, this storage tank appears to be appropriate.

D

Use um I didn't, maybe I didn't notice that I didn't notice any sight, distance problems.

D

Melvin did mention the fence. I noticed part of the chain link fence is in pretty good condition.

D

There's some parts of it in poor condition. Hopefully that would be looked at during the.

D

Site plan review process, uh I'm inclined to vote in favor of the conditional use.

D

It doesn't appear that it would have any adverse impacts on the neighborhood.

D

I think goes without saying: I guess that you know they have to demonstrate they're, not.

D

Going to have any adverse environmental impacts, particularly with regard to any stream buffer.

D

Or floodplain requirements, so at this point I'm inclined to vote in favor of the conditional use.

A

Okay board members: do we have a motion in case six, two, three, nine. I move that we grant a request.

I

For conditional use for thirty thousand gallon propane storage tank in the i2 zone,.

A

Is there a second.

A

Mr simmons, second, in.

A

Okay, any further discussion on the motion, seeing none all those in favor of the motion say aye or raise your right hand. Please.

A

All those opposed okay, the motion passes unanimously. Our old decision will become.

A

Final upon a written decision which will be issued within 30 days unless otherwise.

A

Extended by the board, the board's decision may be appealed by filing a petition for judicial review.

A

With the clerk of the circuit court for carroll county, in accordance with the provisions.

A

Of chapter 200 title vii of the maryland rules of procedure, the appeal must be filed within 30 days.

A

Of the date of the board's decision, thank you very much and the hearing for case number 6239.

A

Is uh completed, uh it is 10 13. According to my talk about, if we come back at.

A

10 20 give everybody about a five minute break, so 10 20 will come back. Did you get that mr.

A

A

Appeals uh board back to order, and we have before us the cedar ridge farm lc uh case number 6227.

A

um Mr dixon, would you go ahead and introduce the file for us please, okay, case 6227, a request for.

B

Conditional use for country inn and banquet facility, the site is located at 723 streaker.

B

Road sykesville maryland on property zone, a agricultural district in election district, 14.

B

By cedar ridge, farm llc, code of public loan, local laws and ordinances, section 158.070, e1t, 158.071.

B

D7 and 155.078 c2, a site visit is tentatively scheduled for august 19th 2020 at approximately 9.

B

50 a.m and above this matter, we have the following documents: site minutes for all the board. Members.

B

There's an august 13 2020 letter from isaac minaj to joe vance uh it closed. Please find.

B

Exhibits for the bza hearing, I believe the board members have the exhibits for the presentation.

B

There is a hearing notice, posted august 14 2020 by scott robinson zoning inspector.

B

There is an august 3rd 2020. notice, a public hearing for this case.

B

There's notice a public hearing for the applicant adjoining property owners and.

B

Interested parties july 30th 2020 from joe vance.

B

There is a response to joe vance's request of air state and local agencies from lionel.

B

Stickles, bureau, chief permits and inspections comments, a change of use permit will be required.

B

For the wedding facility, the country inc shall be owner occupied with a maximum.

B

Count of five guest rooms or a change of use permit will be required. The permits will require.

B

The facilities to be brought into compliance with all life safety, fire protection, sanitary.

B

Sanitary requirements, if approved for use of portables of portable restroom facilities,.

B

The site will be limited to 12 events per year.

B

There's a response to joe vance's request from hannah webber.

B

B

March 13th 2020 memo uh the above uh reference bza case has been reviewed for consistency with.

B

The policies and recommendations contained in the 2014 carroll county master plan.

B

The carroll county, water sewer master plan and other functional plans.

B

The staff finding is that this request is not inconsistent with the 2014 carroll.

B

County master plan and could have an adverse effect on the current use of the property.

B

uh There's a march 12 2020 letter from.

B

Linda eisenberg, secretary to the planning commission to the board. After having reviewed the.

B

Information contained in the attached analysis the facts as presented in the application, the relevant.

B

Portions of the plan, and in accordance with the provision set forth in the land, use article.

B

This conditional use request if granted, is not inconsistent with the.

B

Policies: timing of the implementation of the plan, timing of development.

B

Timing of rezoning development patterns, land uses and densities or intensities.

B

There is a response to joe vance's request from matt shipley carroll county environmental health department.

B

Proposed use may not be acceptable unless it is demonstrated that there is an adequate water.

B

Supply and adequate area for the installation of an initial and two replacement septic systems.

B

For the proposed use and any existing uses of this property site plan will be required.

B

There's a response to joe vance's request from clay black bureau chief development review.

B

A site plan will be required that identifies.

B

Something requirements based on capacity of the venue.

B

There's a response to joe vance's request from j voigt zoning administrator.

B

Comments any buildings or structures shall comply with all building and health department codes.

B

Including life safety codes, currently there is an open investigation on this property.

B

uh See a task investigation report, the za should determine if restriction on property.

B

Shows number of events.

B

One need one needed based on.

B

Applicants testimony.

B

Rooms must be available to rent within the proposed.

B

B

So there's a zoning investigation on the property. There is a response to joe.

B

Vance's request from christopher hen, bureau chief resource management, comments, plot.

B

Plat is not complete, show lod dimensions, parking surface depending on proposed construction site.

B

Plan grading permit and stormwater management may be required, could not determine from information.

B

Provided uh there's a response to joviance's request from deborah.

B

Bauer's program manager ag land preservation program comments, none.

B

There were notices for a prior hearing in this case.

B

And then there's the request for conditionally used for country in and wedding facility and variants for driveway.

B

See three photographs and I see.

B

A plan from vanmar associates inc.

B

I would ask that the fob be entered into evidence.

A

Do we have a motion to enter the following evidence.

A

You have a second, we have a second, we had two moons there, but do we have a second.

I

A

Okay, all those in favor of entering the file and evidence raise your hand.

A

Okay, we will enter the file into evidence before we get started. I see we have an additional.

A

Person online, we have the lens, we have mr uh klutz and we have another caller. Could you identify.

A

Yourself, please hello, um I'm vanessa florencoski and my husband and I own the property at 617.

O

Blankner road uh joining the venue under consideration: okay, could you pronounce for.

A

Us again last name and spell it slow, because it seems like there's a lot of letters there. There.

O

Are it's last name is flora nikoski spelled f as in frank, l, o r, a hyphen n, as in nancy, a k o s k. I.

A

Boron ascii, okay, it's not it's not as bad as I thought it was.

A

Okay, um before we get started uh with the.

A

I'm gonna get to my right sheet here. um I need, I need the people that are going to.

A

Possibly testify to go ahead and take the oath. So could you please um raise your right hand.

A

Do you swear or firm under the penalties of perjury is the truth. The whole truth of.

A

Nothing but the truth, you just say I do I do I do. I do very good. Okay.

A

We're going to let mr nash start this, but for those of you that are calling in.

A

Let me explain to the procedure that we use for our hearings, um mr manash, um I'm assuming is the.

A

Legal counsel for the lens uh he will present his case. He'll have the opportunity to call witnesses.

A

And interview them at that point in time after their testimony, is over.

A

uh Any member from the public can ask questions of their testimony and of their temporary only.

A

Then the board members will have the right to do that uh and then after mr manesh has.

A

Finished presenting his case, anyone from the community can give their testimony either in.

A

For or against the project uh and then we'll have some asian comments and then the board.

A

Will deliberate the case so uh with that um mr manager we'll go ahead and hand it over to you.

P

Thank you, mr chairman, and I do represent cedar farms. Llc.

P

And before we do get started, I was surprised this morning by uh miss vance that uh the uh the agenda.

P

Did not reflect the request for the variance request from for the driveway. uh It was part of.

P

The application and it's been part of the record and uh we're prepared to proceed nonetheless,.

P

But I thought that the record should reflect that and uh with the boards of approval I'll proceed.

P

Is that a yeah? I go full okay, yeah, absolutely all right! Thank you. uh I'd like to um I'd like.

P

To call mr lynn, as a witness and we'll present my case and repeat accordingly, that question.

P

So, mr lynn, I want to ask you some questions. When you asked the board, would you uh identify yourself.

P

Your name and address and occupation for the record sure it's rudolph, lindy 723 street.

Q

Yep rudolph lindy 723 streaker road sykesville, maryland 21784, I'm a business manager for.

Q

Northrop grumman, and is that a full-time occupation that you have it is north of roman.

Q

I'm sorry, I think you broke up a little bit isaac and how long have you been with northrop grumman.

Q

Oh uh 35 years, how long have you been with northrop grumman 35 years.

P

And uh does um and do you own the property, that's the subject.

P

Of this application, yes, yes, my wife and I do.

P

Oh, can the board members hear me: okay, okay,.

Q

I'm sorry you're breaking up again isaac.

Q

Sorry, I assume your question is how long we've been at the farm.

Q

We've been uh here since 1988 so 32 years, two three streaker.

P

Are you, are you the owner of the property? We are dude.

P

My computer here nobody's moving. Can everybody hear.

P

uh Mr chairman you're bothering us now. Can the board members hear my questions.

P

With difficulty, okay, as are the answers.

P

Okay, um should I continue or what should we, uh it seems to be here, we'll see how we slow everything.

P

Okay, mr lindy, do you own the property at 723, streaker road? Yes, my wife and I do correct.

Q

Thank you and um you're, the you also own or our principal member of cedar ridge, farm llc,.

P

Yes, okay and cedar ridge farm is the applicant, then you're here on behalf of cedar ridge, farm.

P

That is correct. That's correct and ceteris farm is going to be leasing that portion of the property.

P

For this use, you have at least in place with cedar ridge, farm and yourself correct. Is that.

P

Correct okay, thank you. Okay, now, um there's been submitted. A a plot plan called exhibit number one.

P

And I'm going to ask you and the board members to refer to it and it's identified as a house.

P

Location survey, and uh do you have that before you I do okay? Is that a depiction of your property.

P

Q

P

Okay, um could you uh how big is it, how large a piece of property is it so it's uh 37 acres.

P

And what exists on the property at the present time, so um we um board horses there.

Q

We have we do have. We actually have two houses, we have the main farmhouse. uh We do have another.

Q

um House that my mother lives in and then we have outbuildings and we board horses here at the farm.

P

I'm gonna ask you, sir, because after reserve, something else after that.

Q

So we so we have the main part to see if I can increase the.

P

Answer yes, the main farm, the main farm house, there is a second bus.

Q

There is a second house, and then we have out buildings, the main barn.

Q

And then we have horses on the property we board horses.

Q

Are the board members hearing my answers by the way.

A

Yes, mr olynyk, we're here.

G

P

Mr minaj is experiencing some network issues on his end.

E

P

um I have a frozen screen with no audio, so we can hear you now. Isaac.

P

Okay, well um good! Well, mr chairman, shall I continue.

A

Yes, you're good now right now, isaac you're as good as you've been okay.

P

Okay, I apologize for this technical problem, but uh anyway, please, let's go back a minute.

P

Could you describe what's on the premises right now, the number of buildings or the type.

P

Of buildings that are there and who so please describe that again because I didn't get it.

P

Okay, sorry, uh so we have the main farmhouse. We have a secondary house that my mother lives in.

Q

We have the main barn, I have a garage and we have one two three.

Q

Run-In sheds and we board horses in 44, separate fields, and then we also have a hay field.

Q

Okay, and do you uh when you live there in one in the other house, is that correct? That's your.

G

Presidency, it is my rep, that's your primary lesson: correct, okay and uh you're uh you're.

P

Applying for a country inn uh with catering facilities and this you're, the you're trying to.

P

Use the barn as a wedding venue is that correct, that's correct, okay, you've actually had a couple.

P

Of weddings there have you not, we have our uh two daughters have gotten we've gotten married here.

Q

Had the receptions, okay and you've improved the wedding of the the barn to accommodate the those.

P

Those types of events have you not? We did both daughters wanted to have their reception here.

Q

At the barn, so we refurbished the bar, so that would we can have their weddings here. Okay,.

P

You have not had any commercial for pay uh events there have you that's correct. We have not.

P

Okay and uh you intend to continue to live there and to continue to have the boarding of the horses.

P

And to have a limited number of events each year is that correct? That is correct.

P

Okay, could you describe when the events would be held and how many.

Q

Sure so the barn doesn't have air conditioning, nor does it have heat so we're only going to.

Q

Offer up four months out of the year for venues for wedding venues, so it would be.

Q

May and june and then september and october, and then we'd have up to two to three.

Q

Weddings um a month, I don't want to have one every weekend. No, since we do live right.

Q

Literally right across the driveway from the barn, so um we're going to have limited use.

P

Okay, what's the maximum number of events you anticipate having at the venue.

Q

Probably or somewhere around 12., okay, and uh when you have one event.

P

Would it could you describe uh to the board how that would take place, how long the applicants.

P

Would have the use of the priming, the the patrons would have use of the property.

P

When they would have the views of the property, and when would the wedding take place and the.

P

Cleanup okay! So um right now we're we've told people who may who are interested for next year.

Q

Who have looked at the venue that we're going to allow five days of before their event, for.

Q

Them to do their decorating and then the day of the event, which would typically be on a saturday.

Q

uh They would uh be able to come in on saturday. The caterers would come in um and any other.

Q

Vendors that they may have for the for their uh reception would come in. So I would say.

Q

Typically, they would have access to the property saturday, saturday morning, our contract states that.

Q

The event has to be completed by 10 pm the day of the event, and then they have the day after.

Q

The event to come back and clean up if there's any additional cleanup that needs to be done.

P

And the event would be held inside the barn, that's correct and the music, if you have any.

P

Would be inside the barn, that's correct and um if you can refer to exhibit number two.

P

uh Is that the contract that you referenced in your testimony? It is okay, and does it.

P

Is this a good prototype of what you intend to use as a a venue contract? Yes, it is.

P

Okay, um I would ask that the contract and exhibit one the the location survey be admitted into.

P

Evidence, thank you, and now you you've also uh are going to be leasing space in the house, rooms to.

P

The bride and groom and to the wedding party is that correct. That is correct and how many rooms.

P

Do you have available to lease to rent so we have a bedroom uh with a. I guess. It's a full-time full.

Q

Full-Size bed and then we also have another room that the bride will use to get ready room with her.

Q

Their mates and their maids of honor and then we also have a bathroom on that same floor.

G

Okay and I'm going to refer, you now what's been marked, exhibit six. There are two.

P

Photographs uh are they the the pictures of the actual rooms that you referred to.

P

They are, one is the bedroom and the other one is the uh get ready room, correct. Okay,.

P

And did you take these pictures, I did and do they fairly and actually represent the depictions of.

P

What they're of yes, okay, I'd, ask that exhibit six be admitted into evidence as well. You, mr chairman,.

P

We will accept those into evidence, so, uh let's clear up some housekeeping things.

P

uh You're not going, are you going to be providing the porta, potties or.

P

The facilities for the for the events or is that the responsibility of the bride and groom and the.

P

Wedding party: it's the responsibility of the the uh bride and groom and the wedding party. Okay and.

P

And do you anticipate having uh like the trailer type um port-a-potties? Yes, that's what we've used.

Q

In our first two weddings for our personal use and it worked out very well: okay, there's a series of.

P

Pictures of it marked as exhibit number seven. Could you tell the board what those pictures.

P

Are of so those are pictures of our the oldest our oldest daughters. Wedding was the one.

Q

That was held basically two years ago and it was held in september.

Q

And we had about 165 to 170 people at that wedding and is that how it was uh you said.

P

This is how it was set up. That's exactly how yep exactly.

P

And did the events go well, yes, they went very well okay and did the um whether.

P

On exhibit one you you've shown on exhibit one uh locations for parking is that where they parked.

P

Or is that where they intend your intent to use for parking area for the youth, and is that grass.

P

Parking, it is grass parking correct and was that used for your other wedding? They were yes.

P

And did you have people out there helping direct traffic? Yes, we did okay and do you.

P

Intend to have people out there directing traffic uh during the wedding, absolutely.

P

And do you intend to monitor what was going on at the events uh for the alcohol consumption.

P

And things of that nature? Yes, yes, I've discussed with people who have come to look at the venue.

G

Okay, do you uh do you? Will the wedding party have the liquor license if there's.

P

Any liquor that'll be served yes or the caterer, but not you. Yes, you're not gonna.

P

Are you gonna deal in the alcohol in any manner, so, if the, if they have a caterer, who has the.

Q

Liquor license and they're going to provide the the alcohol they will. Actually, they need to.

Q

Present us with an insurance binder that covers us, if the if they don't have a caterer, who has a.

Q

Liquor license and they plan to distribute the alcohol themselves. They have to have licensed.

Q

Bartenders they'll also have to have an insurance binder to cover us and the wedding party.

Q

So that's kind of how we're handling the liquid.

P

You recognize that there's a requirement of a site plan- yes, okay, and that you're during.

P

That site plan you're gonna have to delineate all these things a little bit more uh detailed.

P

Okay, okay, now you're not gonna, be disturbing any soil. Are you nope not at all? Okay,.

P

And um the um let's talk about the the the driveway: how long is your driveway, sir.

P

It's about 100 yards at 300, feet, correct, okay, and how wide is it currently nine seats? Okay and.

P

You're asking for a variance or a.

P

An accommodation from the requirement of the curb is that correct. That is correct. Okay,.

P

Mr chairman and members of the board section 155.78.

P

Addresses the design standards for uh for the for the access drive and, under paragraph b,.

P

It says the director may waive standards in this section for periodic outdoor uses.

P

That the director determines are temporary or seasonal and not likely to have an adverse effect.

P

Impact on the neighboring properties number two under that paragraph, under paragraph c.

P

Says access drives, which connect roads or parking areas shall be a minimum.

P

Of 18 feet, except for one-way access drive, which shall be a minimum of 12 feet.

P

It is our request and our position that this is an outdoor, seasonal event that the requirements can.

P

Can be waived uh and but the standard the general uh process has been for a request of a variance.

P

And this is what we are doing here today: we're uh we're we're applying for this uh variance from the.

P

From the 18 feet requirement to the uh existing nine feet and the testimony will continue with.

P

That as a as a uh informational point, uh so mr lindy, uh during the event uh will cars be coming.

P

In and out at different times, or will they be generally coming in all at one time.

Q

So, typically, during a wedding or having a wedding venue, all the cars come in one way because they.

Q

Come in for either the wedding or to come to the venue to park their cars and then, after the events.

Q

Over with, typically all the cars are going, one way out of the driveway to for them to head back home.

P

And the you you're going to have, are you going to have people directing people through the through.

P

This one-way process: yes, we will, during the event and helping people work. Absolutely okay,.

P

Is is the uh in case of an emergency and can someone pull over on the on the on one side of.

P

The other of the driveway they can, yes, is it open fields? It's open grass. Yes- and this is a.

P

Residential neighborhood, primarily yes, it is, and you're primarily a residential uh uh user. Are you.

P

Not I am but we're still zoning agriculture yeah! Okay, um if you well, if you constructed.

P

An access drive 18 feet wide. Would that be in keeping with all the other driveways in your.

P

In your neighborhood, no, no, I wouldn't okay. Would that create a financial hardship on your part.

P

uh It would, and why is that, uh so we would have to um move um some cables. uh We'd also need to.

Q

You know add to my drainage pipe that runs under the driveway and have to remove the tree.

Q

um And then they would have to grade dig out the drought, the grass area and then.

Q

Put stone and then asphalt down. Is it your position that the driveway would serve the purpose.

P

And then the use adequately because of the limited nature of the up of the application. Yes, I do. Okay,.

P

And is it your position that the construction of the driveway.

P

Would be a financial hardship to you as well? Yes, it would uh and okay.

P

Can you've taken pictures of the driveway and they've been marked, as exhibit five.

P

Is that correct that is correct? Okay, does those pictures depict the actual uh driveway.

P

That you're talking about it, does yes, okay and, and the first picture of that exhibit.

P

Shows the driveway apron intersecting the road. Is that correct, yes, and is that a wide apron.

P

It is a very wide apron if someone needed to pull over and park there, while others pass by.

P

Could they do that safely? Yes, they could and is, can they see the house from the driveway road.

P

They can and can the house see people leaving the house, can they see the road or yes yep.

P

On one side of the driveway, there is a fence. Is that correct? That's correct, horse fence, okay,.

P

But uh on one on the other side there is that tree that you were referring to that's correct: okay,.

P

If the board did not wish to grant or uh grant you the variance, would you be willing to construct.

P

A pullover area uh like two parking spaces right somewhere in the middle.

P

Of the driveway uh yes, I would consider that okay.

P

But you would prefer that not be the case. I prefer it not to be the case just for aesthetics. Do you.

P

Do you think that there's there's a need for that? I don't believe, there's a need for that.

P

Did you? um Oh I'm sorry, mr chairman, I don't know if I've moved exhibit six and seven into.

P

Evidence but I wish them to be done so you you haven't, but those um we'll accept them. Okay and.

P

Five as well, thank you, uh five being the driveway pictures. uh Did you uh talk to uh your neighbors.

P

uh About the proposed juice, yes, we did. Okay, I'm going to ask you to refer to exhibit number three.

P

It looks like a tax map. Do you see that yes and there's a a piece of property in the center of the.

P

Exhibit is that your property with a dot in the center of it it is and there's a bunch of numbers.

P

Around that piece of property, uh starting with one and ending with 15., are all those.

P

Your contiguous property owners they are okay. Could you go through the list 1 through 15.

P

Identify who those person that person is that owns the property and whether you spoke to them.

P

And and whether they were had any questions or concerns about the uh proposed juice.

Q

Sure let me pull that up. Please.

Q

Okay, so um the first one being across the street uh directly across the street from our driveway.

Q

Is brian klutz who's? Also on the phone uh we talked about.

Q

Q

And then, next next to 13, okay, yep next to brian, okay, all right all right, one next to brian is.

Q

Number 12., yes, the reinhardts and we talked to the reinhardts and they had no prop issues.

Q

uh Number 11 is mary thamer, we talked to mary and uh she had no issues.

Q

Actually she's, like sitting back and listening to then watching the people next to.

Q

Her is number 10 and that's ed and julia alberto and we talked to them. They had no issues.

Q

Yes, I talked to the folks at number nine, my sheet, I don't have numbers on my sheet isaac. I'm sorry.

Q

um Number, nine is, is, um we talked to them also, and uh they didn't have any issues.

P

Since you don't have numbers on your sheet, let me just ask you in general terms, did you talk to all.

P

Your neighbors about the proposed use- yes, except for uh obviously bg and e, which is number 15.

Q

uh We did not talk to the douglas memorial community church.

P

Do you know what number that is, yeah just number one, I believe. Okay.

P

Will you talk to everybody else? uh Yes, we did also talk to.

Q

Let me see here.

Q

So vanessa, who and robert who's also on the phone.

Q

And the issue that they had was during the weddings that I had. I had the first wedding.

Q

I had my lights: temporary lights set up in the parking area. That kind of.

Q

Was pointed towards their property and said, I think the lights were an issue for them. So I told.

Q

Them that I would move the lights to the opposite side of the parking area, so the lights were facing.

Q

Over towards the main part of the house, and over towards the hay field, where there aren't.

Q

Any houses, so that would be more appropriate for us to do. Did they tell you any other concerns.

Q

Not not that I could remember but vanessa's on the phone, I believe so she.

Q

She has any topics he can bring about um all right. When you talk to your neighbors, you.

P

Describe the use in generally the same manner as you described it to the board today, yes, okay,.

P

um With the board's indulgence for a minute, please.

P

Is there anything else you want to add, mr lindy, that you think is.

P

Appropriate or that I missed that you feel would be helpful to the board.

Q

um No, we did receive a letter from one of our neighbors, which I believe is also one.

Q

Of the exhibits number four, okay, oh that's right! I seem to have messed up. Mom exhibits here with me.

P

I do recall that um is that something that you received, then we forwarded to the board.

P

Is that correct? That's correct! It's from uh rebecca roberts, okay, oh yeah yeah! He.

Q

Lives right across the street from venezuela, okay, uh I'd ask that that be admitted as well.

P

Mr chairman, we'll accept that independence. Okay, I have uh no further questions to the witness.

B

Did you offer exhibit three inhabitants? Is that the graph? No? I did not, but.

P

um Yeah I'd like to have it admitted as well. Thank you, mr dixon.

P

I apologize okay, we will go ahead and accept the exhibit three into evidence. Also. Okay, thank you.

A

Okay, do any of the callers have any questions of mr lindy's testimony? I do.

O

This is vanessa and identify yourself, please hi. This is vanessa florencoski from 617 blankner road.

A

Okay, go ahead, so um mr lindy, you mentioned amplified noise within the barn.

O

And this was actually one of our additional concerns. What volume will you be playing.

O

The music and after what time will amplified noise, be restricted so per our contract, and so.

Q

They need to make sure that uh the venue of the activity needs to end at 10 pm.

Q

And that activity includes noise that would include.

Q

uh If they have a dj correct, the dj would need to stop by 10 o'clock.

O

So then, as a follow-up question, if the music ends at 10 at what point will guests be.

O

Off the property, I've been to weddings, you dance until the music's over yeah, typically.

Q

Based on the two weddings that we've had uh by the time, everybody leaves and there's.

Q

Some cleanup done it's typically an hour after the music has stopped.

O

So, to make sure I'm understanding that means that the parking lights would be on until 11 pm.

O

The parking lights are probably on yes, probably close to 11, maybe a little before.

O

Okay, um um in terms of the size of events, you mentioned that your daughter's weddings were.

O

Around 165 175 what size events in terms of number of guests do you propose to host going forward so.

Q

Our contract states 175 max. Thank you. You also mentioned potential alcohol consumption on site.

O

um How will you or the county, I guess, assess the impact on traffic and potential drunk driving on.

O

The road in our area, so the bartenders will need to be licensed and we'll also. I will also monitor.

Q

The drinking transpires during the events and I've also mentioned to people who've come to.

Q

Look at the venue that um you know. First of all, I I certainly don't want any issues.

Q

With people drinking and driving- and we don't- we want to keep everybody safe, so I tell them.

Q

That I will be monitoring the alcohol consumption and, if there's anybody, who's.

Q

Shouldn't be driving, I will mention it to them and prevent them from getting in the car.

O

Thank you, um and I think this is my last question. um You mentioned people parking on the grass in.

O

The pasture and, as you know, the topography of that means that um there's really not an easy way.

O

To block like light and noise very effectively without adding more trees,.

O

But there's also the issue of runoff so depending on the number of events held and the number of.

O

Cars parked on the property. How will you mitigate the effects of compaction on surface runoff and.

O

Erosion in that pasture, which could potentially impact the gully at the bottom of our property.

Q

So so it is a horse pasture and we do have um in the middle of that pasture. There is a gully that.

Q

That's been created from water, runoff, coming off a streak or road, and then we have that.

Q

As I mentioned in the driveway, we have a pipe that runs under the driveway, so water does run.

Q

uh Through that gully, the actual pasture itself, uh the topography of the pasture is.

Q

That's it's actually very good for parking. We've used it many times when we've had.

Q

You know family gatherings where we needed to have parking and we've never had any issues with.

Q

Disturbing any of the grass or the ground.

O

Thank you, um although I'd imagine that these events are much larger in terms of number of.

O

Cars than your family gatherings and I'm not understanding that correctly, oh yeah.

Q

Of course I mean we've had we have had some halloween parties here when the kids are smaller.

Q

Or we've probably had about probably about the same amount of people, if not more, at the.

Q

Halloween parties we park people in that field. Once again, the field isn't completely flat where.

Q

The water would sit, it does have a slight grade to it, which the water would run off.

Q

And, like I said it's really a nice surface, even though it's just grass, it's just a nice surface,.

O

O

And that's all my questions. Okay,.

A

Thank you. um Are there any questions by anyone else? That's on the line.

A

Okay, seeing none board members any questions of mr lindy's testimony.

E

Nolan mr lindy uh look at exhibit three with me. Please that's the.

E

um One that shows the adjoining properties. Okay, if, if you look at the church and you go three over.

E

Beyond the church, the angling uh counterclockwise is property number four.

E

Then next to that is a triangle that a mind is outlined in red. What is that.

Q

I I believe that is maybe the property line for number four.

Q

I don't know it's a good question. Oh mr lindy, if I may, mr knuckleberger, when I spoke with.

P

You did you not tell me that the triangle was part of number four: the same property.

Q

I I don't know: okay well, okay,.

P

um Because that's both number three and number four are both conway properties.

P

Both what kind of properties uh the conways they belong to, the conaways.

Q

Okay, number four, I believe, was an off-conveyance of the original farm, which is number three.

Q

Okay, uh second question: please tell me what what will happen with grass parking and wet weather.

Q

Well, we've had wet weather before uh in that area and we have knock on wood. We've.

Q

Never had any issues with um anybody being able to get out of the out of the field.

Q

It does have a slight, it does have a slight, I think you know um in cloud decline elevation. So it.

Q

It does drain pretty well.

A

Okay board members, any other questions just to clarify for the country in.

D

The number of rooms for guests for overnight stay.

D

There would only be one one such room is that correct? That's correct! Yes, sir.

A

Okay, any other questions, mr simmons miss eckerd.

A

Okay, mr monash, would you like to call another witness.

P

uh Just a couple of redirect questions from mr lindy, please.

P

Okay, go ahead, mr lindy. With regard to the alcohol sales, is it your testimony that.

P

There needs to be a responsible licensed caterer that would be dispensing the alcohol and be.

P

Responsible primarily for the proper dispensation of the alcohol is that correct, that's correct.

P

Okay, and that you as well, will be monitoring the dispensation and consumption of alcohol.

P

Is that correct? That is correct? Okay and your contract provides for that.

P

The legal evidence obligation with the wedding party- it is okay,.

P

And you still have to go through the site plan process to go through the different agencies, such.

P

As the fire marshal, who can uh dictate to you, the maximum number of occupancy for the uh facility is.

P

That correct that will be correct. Yes, you under no circumstance will lease it for more than 175.

P

People, no that's correct, I won't. I don't have enough chairs tables okay, and is it your testimony.

P

That, if neighbors, that you will do whatever is necessary to minimize the noise of the event.

Q

Absolutely I mean we live with, you know within the neighborhood, so we want to be.

Q

A partner with them and um okay, I have no further questions and I don't have any other witnesses.

P

So I would rest my case: okay, very good. Do um let's see we have uh the clutches and we also have.

A

Vanessa, that's on the line uh who asked questions would uh do the clutches have any testimony they.

A

Would like to provide yes, hello. I have, I think, just two questions since I'm not fully familiar.

N

With the what a conditional use permit exactly states um first, I would like to say I appreciate.

N

The lindy's talking with us and explaining their plans, I also appreciate them keeping.

N

It properly primarily unchanged, you know not adding buildings and changing it to a commercial.

N

uh Thing I appreciate the atmosphere kind of staying as it is, and that's very considerate.

N

And especially the acoustics, as they know across the street, from our property.

N

Can be very, um you can hear definitely across the street very well. So I appreciate.

N

The music ending you know at 10 pm. This is very considerate, um but my two questions are in the.

N

Conditional use permit itself will it specifically state a maximum number of events allowed like 12.

N

Events per year as they're proposing- I don't know much about legal conditional use, permit wording.

A

Mr klutz, that would be uh that's at this discretion of the board of zoning appeals.

A

We can put a limit on the number of events. uh We have done that in the past.

A

With this type of venue and with other type of venues, um but asking about the conditional use.

A

um If this were a principle permitted use in in this zone, there would not. There would.

A

Not be a need for a board of zoning appeals hearing, but since this is a conditional use.

A

You as a neighbor get get the opportunity for input.

A

In in order for them to go forward as a condition, a conditional use in the zones, we have.

A

Principle permitted, uh which you have by right. Then there are conditional use initiatives of.

A

Conditional use and uh then actually in the new codes there are actually prohibited uses.

A

uh So this has an additional um layer of uh citizen input.

A

Okay, what people can use? Yes, it does, and my input would be I'm I'm. Okay with uh you know from my.

N

Perspective 12 events per year max, I I appreciate you know the four months out of the year. My.

N

Only concern is not so much with the lindy's, because I trust them and understand their plans.

N

But if I understand right, conditional use permit would be on the land so if they sold the property.

N

I would not be happy with like a future owner, basically adding air conditioning and heating.

N

And then having the facility be available like all year round, um so I'm supportive of of the.

N

Conditional use at a max of 12 events per year, if that's stated in the conditional use. But if.

N

There's no limit implied, I would be concerned about future owners and what the effect would be.

N

Which leads to a second question of is the permit? Does it require renewal, or is this just.

N

One time granted and then permanent for the property moving forward.

A

Mr dixon, you want to respond to that.

B

um It's perpetual as long as the use is continued and doesn't lapse for 12 months without being used.

N

Okay, thank you. So if it is permanent with the lapse, then.

N

Yeah, that's my only input, I'm supportive of this. As long as.

N

There's a stated limit in the conditional use um as as uh provided by the lindy's.

N

If they want to increase this, then I you know, I would assume that there would be another.

N

Review or a permit application change, etc, cetera, but I think that's all the input I have for today.

A

Okay, thank you. Do you, mr minash, do you have any um questions of a case testimony no thank you.

P

No, I don't and mr lindy.

A

Would you be amicable to the a limit of 12 events per calendar year absolutely.

A

Okay, um I'm going to call you vanessa, because I don't want.

A

To mess up your last name, do you have any testimony that you would like to provide.

O

Yes, I do um so while we support small business. Oh sorry, go ahead, I'm sorry and and.

A

Please identify yourself and, um and your address sure vanessa florencoski at 617, blankner road.

O

While we support small business in carroll county, our previous experiences with this.

O

Site as a wedding venue did raise a number of concerns for us during the first wedding amplified.

O

Sound was so loud and late into the night that neither of us could fall asleep and, as mentioned.

O

The lights from the parking area pointed directly into our yard, so, while mr lindy has assured us.

O

That this will not happen again. We would feel more comfortable if these verbal agreements about light.

O

Placement and sound were on record and enforceable according to county code. If the appeal is approved.

O

We request that any events end at 9, 00 pm and all guests be off-site with lights off by 10 pm.

O

If approved, we request that the site plans be submitted to the county.

O

Restricting amplified sound after 9 pm and, if approved, we also request a strict limit.

O

On the number of events hosted each year with a maximum of six total throughout the month of may.

O

To october, which is approximately one per month, rather than most weekends during those months and.

O

Separately, we are genuinely concerned about potential devaluation of our property when.

O

We ourselves first heard of the proposal we actually considered moving, so that we.

O

Wouldn't need to live next to a wedding venue and so that we could sell our home for its real value.

O

We worry that any future buyers of our home will bulk at purchasing a home so close to a wedding.

O

Venue with its noise and potentially rowdy guests, we chose to live in this neighborhood.

O

With its dead end street for its quiet, seclusion and distance from light pollution, we value our.

O

Privacy- and we worry that, if approved, some of the features of our neighborhood would be diminished.

O

So thank you for listening to our concerns and for your consideration of these requests.

A

um Isaac, do you have any questions or testimony? No, I do not thank you for asking.

A

Board members, any question of vanessa's testimony.

E

Yes, I do, what is what is your logic of six.

O

I'm sorry I didn't hear the second part of the question.

E

What is your logic of six uh events a year.

O

So six events would be approximately one or two a month, whereas 12 events would be potentially like.

O

Three saturdays out of the month and as mr lindy pointed out, these are the best months.

O

For enjoying outdoor spaces- and we would be concerned that if we wanted to enjoy our.

O

Outdoor space in peace and quiet during those days that it would be impacted by this more regularly.

O

Than we would wish 12 seems like pretty much every weekend. There would be a wedding.

E

Thank you any other board members questions of her testimony.

A

Okay, with that, um mr monash, would you like to, I guess, presentation and testimony of.

A

Evidence is now closed and some nations are in order. um Mr monash, thank you um to start by.

P

Just addressing that a conditional use is a presumed valid use. That's authorized by the code.

P

And the test, whether granting it is whether the use proposed that the location proposed.

P

Causes a harm, that's unique at that location that would not be found elsewhere in the zone.

P

And, to the contrary, the evidence is that this is an ideal location uh for the use. It is the.

P

Pro the property is a large piece of land, uh with the use being in the center of it.

P

Very far distant from the adjoining property owners, the use itself is very minimal. It's.

P

Very innocuous. uh The applicants have shown that they are going to view in a responsible fashion.

P

The carroll county has a has a noise ordinance and it addresses noise leaving the.

P

The property uh uh line, uh how much is permitted before it violates the noise uh ordinance and it.

P

Says the time to test it is at 10 o'clock at night. So I think, even if the applicants did.

P

Not have this use, they could generate noise with without any restriction until 10 o'clock at night.

P

That the the restricting it to a 9 o'clock concept is an undue burden on the applicant and unjust.

P

Under the circumstances, we're concerned about the neighbor's welfare and the board will will.

P

Understand it, mr lindy is going to do whatever he can to minimize any adverse effect, but certainly.

P

The adverse effect would not be any greater at this location than other locations in the zone.

P

He's met all the requirements of of offering room and.

P

Anything that uh the board is really minimizing any of the adverse effects.

P

With respect to the lighting again he's going to address that, so that it does not impact the.

P

Neighbors there will be a site plan which will require the the location markings of where those.

P

Lights are going, I don't think the board. Has the information at hand now to require something.

P

That the engineering will dictate later and will be reviewed by the appropriate.

P

Agencies during the site plan process, um I, with respect to the variance this is about as minimal.

P

Variance quote, uh as you can have before you in that it is really.

P

Technically, it's not really a variance, but it is a variance and so we'll we'll treat it as such.

P

But the standard should be should be weighed in relationship to the proposed use. This is.

P

Not a commercial uh event, that's open, 365 days a year that will generate traffic 365 days a year.

P

This is a a residential property and excuse me, a residential property that.

P

Is in keeping with keeping the drive is uh the way it is and keeping with the neighborhood.

P

And actually increasing it to the 18 foot will actually do more harm than good, in that it will.

P

Make it look more commercial than it is um the uh the so there's a significant cost associated with.

P

Construction, it's not necessary! It's not going to help things. It's a very limited small driveway.

P

And there's going to be people who are going to be directing the traffic in and out it's a few hours.

P

At the at the most and to to construct a large driveway just for those few hours a year is a.

P

Hardship as well as the cost and the uh and the factors associated with it, the neighbors, I don't.

P

Think any of them can address the concern about that size of the driveway and I think.

P

That that the applicants meet the burden of an undue hardship and would request that that be.

P

Granted as well, I don't mean to minimize any of the concerns, but I do think that the.

P

Applicants have presented a case that shows a responsible use of the property with with.

P

Little or minimal adverse effects, certainly none that would be more than elsewhere. Finding.

P

In the agricultural center, and with that, I would like to submit the case. Thank you.

A

Okay, thank you, isaac. um The hearing record of this case is now closed and in accordance with.

A

The open meetings actor maryland the board will now consider the case board members. I have some.

D

Concerns I have concerns with the driveway, uh with the grass parking and with the outdoor lighting.

D

The existing driveway is only nine feet wide.

D

uh 12 feet is required for one-way movements, 18 feet for two-way movements, so that.

D

This driveway is clearly substandard. The reason for the not widening the driveway was.

D

Economic hardship, it's my understanding. Economic hardships aren't legitimate reason for granting.

D

Variances uh grass parking is proposed. I question whether that's permitted by right.

D

uh The parking regulations require a durable and dustless surface.

D

So I question whether a variance would be needed for grass parking.

D

Outdoor lighting, the application.

D

That addresses plot plat requirements. Outdoor lighting is one of the things that is supposed to.

D

Be addressed, I don't see where outdoor lighting has been sufficiently addressed in this case.

D

So those are my concerns.

A

Okay, dr dungleberger, uh first wouldn't uh outdoor lighting be addressed in the site plan.

A

I'm assuming that it would be okay. Well, I I think I I hear uh dennis's concern about the driveway.

E

But I think the nature of weddings is that you have one-way traffic.

E

Everybody arrives at the beginning and everybody leaves at the end you're, not.

E

At the end, you're not having people uh arrive.

E

I am inclined to support this request.

A

I

I think most of the issues that have been brought up will be addressed um during the site plan and.

I

I'm inclined to support this, but with a limit to 12 functions a year.

I

And a strict cutoff of 10 o'clock at night, mr chair yeah, um I agree completely with lisa's position.

F

uh I don't think it would be consistent with our findings in the past to limit this to six events.

F

When most, if not all, of the events that we've reviewed and approved have been 12., and I think.

F

That that's a reasonable explanation given may june september october. Maybe a couple of other.

F

And and the other we've never limited anybody to 9 pm. To my knowledge, I haven't been here.

F

Eternally but I've been here for about 12 years and I don't remember that at all so.

F

I'm in agreement with 10 pm and 12 events a year, I'm going to vote in favor of that.

A

Okay, um so it appears that the issues that we're dealing with is number of events.

A

And also the experience on the driveway and we have in the past, granted variances on driveways.

A

For other wedding venues and to my knowledge, uh as ms secker pointed out and already as.

A

Dr dunkelberger pointed out wedding traffic is usually one end. This is one direction in.

A

Prior to the event, and then uh going out when, when the event is over and to my knowledge,.

A

Where we have granted previously uh the variances on driveway widths, it has not been an issue and.

A

Those driveways have been um not nearly as improved as this one is, and in some cases a.

A

Good bit longer- um and I do concur about the the the 12 uh events uh that that would be.

A

uh That's 12 out of probably a a possibility of 16 uh available dates when you confine it to the.

A

May june and off uh september october, um so so with that I'll go ahead and entertain a motion.

F

I move that in case six, two two seven, we approve the conditional use.

F

And the variance, as requested with the condition specifically for.

F

12 events per year and a cut off of the.

F

Music and time of the event to 10 pm have a second second.

A

Okay, is there a discussion on the motions before us.

I

One other thought: do we need to limit this to amplified music inside the venue inside.

A

With mr simmons, would you be amicable to that addition to your motion.

A

Mr simmons, you need to unmute your mic.

F

There we go. I was responding uh to the idea that uh maybe 12 events per year maximum. I.

F

I believe was stipulated at 175 people attending and ending at 10 p.m. Do I have that right, mr lindy.

F

Yes, sir good, I was listening.

A

Would you be amicable to that additional condition.

F

Well, lisa state that again, please.

I

I'm just wondering if we should um also limit it to amplified music.

I

Only inside the venue only inside the barn thought that was what mr lindy had presented.

F

And that's what I was affirming and he's shaking his head affirmatively. So yes, the answer is yes.

A

Okay, because he can testify, but if we don't put it as a condition guys, uh then.

A

There could be issues as far as enforcement, so you're amicable to that. Mr simmons. I am.

A

Okay and who seconded the motion are.

A

You in agreement yeah, yes, okay, okay, any further discussion on the motion.

A

Okay, all in favor of the motion space I just wanted to mention. I just wanted to make sure.

B

That, uh because uh mr simmons added, when he just spoke, that he that there's a maximum of 175 people.

B

That's also part of the motion, because that wasn't part of it initially.

F

No, it was not, mr lindy, that's what you stated. Was it not.

F

As that is what I stated and that you're agreeable to that, I am agreeable to that.

Q

But I'm sure that the fire marshal is going to tell me what the real number is.

F

It's not going to be above 175. I can tell you that it will not be about 175. That's correct.

F

Thank you very much.

A

Okay, are you good, mr dixon, you can just shake your head.

A

Very, very good. All those in favor of the motion say aye raise your right hand all opposed. No.

A

Let the record reflect uh that there's one dissension.

A

um I did not see the distinction who descended um mr works.

A

Okay motion carries four to one. Our oral decision will become final upon a written decision which.

A

Will be issued within 30 days unless otherwise extended by this board. The board's decision may be.

A

Appealed by filing a petition for judicial review with the clerk of the circuit court for carroll.

A

County in accordance with the provisions, chapter 200, title vii of the maryland rules and procedure.

A

The people must be filed within 30 days of the date of the board's written decision.

A

Thank you very much for your participation today and this hearing is adjourned.

G

G