Carroll County, MD Carroll County Board of Zoning Appeals, 6 Jan 2021

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From YouTube: Board of Zoning Appeals January 6, 2021

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https://www.carrollcountymd.gov/government/upcoming-meetings-agendas-and-public-hearings/

A

Two eight four and mr dixon: would you go ahead and introduce the file for us? Please.

B

B

Case 6284, an application for conditional use for country in and banquet facility, the site.

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Is located at 3730 deal road ponytail, maryland on property zone, a agricultural district in election.

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District, one by scott, a fisher code of public local laws and ordinances, section 158.0, e1t a.

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Site visit is tentatively scheduled for wednesday december 16 2020 at approximately 9 15 am.

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And file this matter, we have the following documents:.

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There are comment memos from various state and local agencies in response to dovance's.

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Request to them there's a response from tom harris permits and inspections.

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Comments, accessibility will be addressed during the site plan process. A change of use.

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Building permit will be required for any existing buildings used for the country in or event venue.

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A building permit will be required for any new structures, including any tents, thomas harris.

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They're the site uh minutes for the board members.

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There's a december 4th 2020 letter from linda d, eisenberg secretary to the planning commission.

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uh After having reviewed the information contained in the attached analysis, the facts as presented in.

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The application, the relevant portions of the plan and in accordance with the provisions in.

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The land use article this conditional use request if granted is consistent with the policies. Timing,.

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Of the implementation of the planned timing of development, timing of rezoning development.

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Patterns land uses and densities or intensities. There is a december 8th, 2020 memo from hannah.

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Webber planning technician the above reference bza case has been reviewed for consistency with.

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The policies and recommendations contained in the 2014 carroll county master plan, as amended in 2019.

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The carroll county, water sewer master plan and other functional plans.

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The staff finding is that this request is consistent with the 2014 carroll county master.

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Plan as amended in 2019 and would not have an adverse effect on the current use of the property.

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There is a newspaper ad for this case december 7th 2020.

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Hearing notice was posted november 23rd 2020 by zoning inspector, anastasia.

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There's a response to joe vance's request from matt shipley carroll, county environmental.

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Health department proposed use may not be acceptable unless it is demonstrated that.

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There is an adequate water supply and adequate area for the installation of an initial or two.

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Replacement septic systems for the proposed use and any existing uses of this property.

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There's a response from christopher christopher p.

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Han bureau chief resource management, uh no comments.

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There is a response to joe vance's request from j voigt zoning administrator.

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A site plan approved by the bureau of development review will be required.

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There is a response to joe vance's request from deborah bowers program.

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Manager ag land preservation program comments, not in agricult agricultural land preservation per db.

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Jovance had a notice of public hearing to the applicant adjoining property owners and.

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Arrested parties november 17 2020.

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Then there's the application for conditional use for country in.

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And banquet facility there are some- uh I see.

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An aerial photograph siege, one two.

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There's a number of aerial photographs.

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And there's also a.

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Document from clsi, I would ask that the file be entered.

A

Raise your right hand.

A

Okay, we will go ahead and enter that.

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Into evidence before we get started here this morning, let me get through the procedures.

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uh What we'll do is we'll have the applicant go ahead and present their case this morning, and they.

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Will have the opportunity to call witnesses that they want or just present their case.

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Then the public will have the opportunity to ask them questions of their testimony.

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And only of their testimony, there will be a point in time for anyone else to weigh.

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In on the case uh to and provide their own testimony at a later time in the in the hearing.

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After the applicant has presented their case, then anyone from the public can offer their.

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Comments on this, then there will be a summation by the applicant and then the board will go ahead.

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And make a decision um before we get started um if you're, if you plan on giving testimony today,.

A

I need you to raise your right hand and take the oath, but you can just raise your right hand. Please.

A

Is anybody on the co all on the call going to offer testimony.

A

Yeah, okay, do you swear or firm under the penalties of perjury, that the testimony.

A

You're about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

C

A

Okay, very good, thank you! So mr schaefer, I see you're you're on the line.

A

And is it right to assume that you're, the legal counsel for the applicants.

D

uh No, it's not, uh mr chairman, I am here representing a neighboring property.

D

Owner lois, guyton and kim marcus, uh both of whom I think are on the call.

D

Because I talked to them at quarter to nine and they were set up, but it's anticipated that.

D

I will probably do almost all of the talking if they were to testify. Obviously, and- and I.

D

I, if they are on the call, then they would uh take the oath at that time. Okay, I jumped to.

A

A conclusion there, mr tape, we're sorry about that. No problem, mr bill, I have a question if I may, okay.

E

Are the millers involved in this in any way do any of the millers plan to testify today.

C

um um Maybe, mr shaffer, I don't know if, if you know I I do not know, I'm only I'm only here.

D

On behalf of lois guyton and kim marcus there, so no I don't know anything about the millers.

E

And and have they been identified as the caller as caller? One that's shown on my screen, your clients.

D

Let's find out caller one, can you identify yourself? uh Yes, this is chris tomlinson.

A

Okay, so so we don't have the millers on the line, um so so that if we don't have them, uh then you.

A

Don't have a conflict is that what you're getting at lisa? Yes, that's, correct! Okay, so it appears that.

A

We do not have an issue with that um before we get started. Let me go through a couple of things.

A

If you're, not if you're, not speaking, please turn your mic microphone off because there could be.

A

Feedback- and it can only the recording- can only record one voice at a time, so that would be very.

A

Beneficial the other thing is um before you speak. Please state your name address and occupation.

A

And for the record, please spell your last name so with that we will go ahead and turn it over.

A

To the fishers, and let them go ahead and explain to us what they need here with this request.

C

Hi everyone, I'm morgan fisher.

F

I'm scott fisher good morning, fisher-fischer we live at 3730 deal road in tony town.

C

We are bright day farm. We wanted to thank everybody for this opportunity today.

C

In early march, we had our third baby, but in april, when I intended to go back to work, I.

C

Lost my job due to coven, I don't have a job anymore, so I'm a stay-at-home mom and I.

C

So this will be like a way for me to be home with our children and just make some income.

C

um But before we get into like some logistics and things, I just want to give you a little backstory.

C

Of our farm uh we moved here about five years ago. um It was very run down and it wasn't taken care.

C

Of at all, we had about eight roll-off dumpsters of trash, just and buildings were collapsed and.

C

It was just horrible, um but we did we're cleaning it up and it looks wonderful. We built a beautiful.

C

Chicken coop out of the old house that we had to tear down it's really adorable um painted the barn.

C

So much more like endless amounts of time and sweat into it, so I'll let scott take over and.

C

Say some things so just add to that. I think the point is we love carroll county and want to keep.

F

It the way it is, and we feel like we brought this farm back to life. It was really just run down and.

F

um You know our intention is to just keep the countryside intact and and the way it's.

F

Always been, I guess with that, um the overall you know intention of the country in is is.

F

Not to have some huge establishment or anything like that, it's it's very.

F

We feel like minimal impact. We want to have um people be able to come out, enjoy the farm.

F

In the world of covid, this would be an outside event venue. So there's no one going in the barn.

F

It would be, you know they can enjoy the barn and take pictures in front of it and.

F

um uh You know enjoy the deformed, I guess atmosphere. um People would be able to on a limited.

F

Scale, have you know a retirement party or if they want to have a wedding? That's really our intention.

F

Again, just small small scale: it allows my wife to make some income and still stay home with the kids.

F

We also thought of it as a benefit to other people in the community from.

F

Excuse me economic perspective. You know, there's going to be people that will.

F

Cater at times so it provides other jobs for people. We don't have a catering license and.

F

We don't want to build any structures, so we will have somebody come out.

F

And put a tent up and you know: that'll provide jobs for people, and we just think that it's a.

F

It's a benefit to everybody, and it's something that we would do from like may 1st to october 1st.

F

It's just an opportunity. We just think it goes kind of fits into the.

F

Time, I guess right now, with covid and having people have to socially distance, and you know.

F

We understand from talking to different agencies and departments like we have to have less than.

F

100 people- and we can only have like I think, 10 a year, some 10 or 12, I think- was the maximum.

F

So it's not, um you know from our perspective, it's it's very limited and we're excited about.

F

It we just want to share the form with everybody, and um you know we love carroll county. We went to.

F

North carolina high school, we lived here our whole life. Like morgan, said we moved here five years ago.

F

I think that's it. It's pretty.

F

I feel like it's pretty straightforward, what we're trying to do so again. We just want to.

C

Thank everyone- and we appreciate your time this morning, um just there any questions or.

A

Okay include your testimony. Is that what you're saying? Okay at the point.

A

Does anyone have any questions of fisher's testimony members of the public.

A

Mr shaffer, thank you, um clark, schaefer's uh 73's, main street westminster on behalf of lois.

D

Guyton and kim marcus who live or who have owned property next door to this property. Mr mrs fisher.

D

How large will your parking area be.

F

uh We're we're roughly uh looking at about 63 feet wide and about 200 feet long.

D

And and where and you've you've drawn a rectangle on the.

D

Plat or sketch, which is an orthographic, photo that you submitted with your application.

G

Is that the 63 by 200 foot area, yes and that's going to be that's approximate? Okay, um are you.

D

Planning on paving that or putting gravel on it, no, what kind of surface is there there now.

D

Grass is it an open field? Now? Yes, now you describe this as a farm. How large is the property.

F

9.86 acres: okay, do you do you use it for farming purposes? We do do you plant crops on it.

D

We do do you plant crops in the area where the parking is going to go. We have okay and I noticed.

D

That the parking is is located. What appears to be almost adjacent to deal road is that correct.

D

Correct- and I mean it's shown what I mean it's hard to tell from the sketch you've provided.

D

How far off of the the uh surface of deal road is it low? Is the parking proposed to be located.

F

um I don't have that exact distance, I mean it's just an approximation, I mean.

F

At least, in my mind like if we were to be fortunate enough to move forward, we would get.

F

More detail, I guess in the site plan, but tomato would be not parked up on the road. You know there.

F

We would come into our property and then once you're in our property, you would.

F

Basically enter into the into the field into the lower portion of the field, and then we would have.

F

It staked off, you know so that there's you know no one parking like up on the road, but.

F

I don't I don't have that exact number! Okay, who prepared this uh this, drawing that you submitted.

F

um So the plan- I guess, the the the image that you're looking at, is from clsi. We uh drew in the.

F

Details and did some some measurements like where the actual tent area would be, um and then some of.

F

The measurements I mean we, we actually just went to like a commercial parking lot and just.

F

You know tried to see what kind of you know normal distances between parking spaces and if you figure.

F

You know if there was you know, 80 people that needed to park. You would need you know, 40 or 50.

F

Spaces and that's kind of how we came up with that, the rough number okay, so you took an orthographic.

D

uh Photo and then you drew in the rest of this stuff, that's shown on there correct.

D

Yes, okay, now, where would people enter uh your property in order to get to the parking area.

F

So there's two entrances um so the the way if you're looking at I'm sorry, I'm like grab a diag.

F

That works so there's two entrances. um The ideal entrance would be if you're looking at the.

F

Image and you see where the barns located there's actually a second smaller building.

F

um Like a pull through, you would enter by that and then once you made, if you're going, I guess uh west.

F

On deal road, you would make a left and enter in and then once you went into our property.

F

Say 20 feet at most, you would kind of turn right and then pull into the field right. There.

F

The other way just for just so you see the two is, if you were to follow that, where you enter in.

F

There, if you were to follow that it actually wraps around the barn and continues on and does like a.

F

Semi circle right back to deal road, so there's there's really two entrances. So one of those.

D

One or both of those entrances would be the way people would get into this facility. Yes,.

D

No, I can't see those from the orthographic plan, but I but I can see the circular driveway from.

D

The aerial photos you submitted, which I assume are in the record because mr dixon referred to them.

D

Is that correct, yes, and so the parking would, if referring to the uh aerial photos,.

D

The parking area would be in that green grass area uh along deal road, correct.

F

I mean just to be just so we're on the same page, the area that, in the larger, like the orthographic.

F

Plan where the the rectangle, as you referred to it? Yes, yes,.

F

West of the uh entrance yeah. Okay, now that property is closest to mrs guyton's.

D

Property, isn't it that parking well yeah? I think you and just to be clear when you.

F

Referred to miss guy, it's her and her daughter that right, they both are on the deed. Is that.

F

You you mentioned two people. Yes, that's correct, okay, yes, yes, that is the closest.

F

Yes, they're closest to their property and you're familiar with that property. Are you not.

D

I am uh um I'm yes, I'm very familiar with it. Yeah you've lived out there and uh for several years.

D

And you're familiar with that property right. Yes, yes, um yes, no, and you know it's just an empty lot.

F

Yes, okay, and do you know mrs guyton's trying to market that for a single family, residential.

D

uh House I do she requested a right away from us. Yes, okay and um now deal road describe deal road.

D

Please, what kind of road is that, um I guess just a carroll county road um just well, is it.

D

A carroll county paved road, um not at this time. Okay, what what? What is the surface of that road.

D

Gravel and how wide is it I think, of roughly 20.

F

20 22 feet something like that. I'm not sure I haven't measured the road okay is it? Is it level.

D

uh uh Relatively level where it uh crosses your property or comes comes in front of your property.

F

um I think I'm just I'm not sure where you're going this I mean it's.

F

They split from the top of the road there to the west, it does go down, but I mean that the entrance.

F

Would be level where you would enter in and then right after the road passes, your property and and.

D

Proceeds to front on mrs guyton's property: it makes a pretty sharp turn to the right. Does it not.

F

So you would go past where not a very sharp turn. That's where the turn that's.

D

That's the turn that's shown on the uh on the orthographic plan: correct yeah, yeah, that's their.

D

Property, yes, okay, yeah, and where? What's the outlet uh going in that direction to the next public road.

F

uh You can take that all the way to. I think it's heiser that road go. It is one of the roads that.

F

Just turns into another road, so it's either hyzer or brown. uh If you take deal road all the way to.

F

The end or uh I want to say about two miles down: you can make a left on angel road which would.

F

Take you out to 194. okay, um so it's about two miles to uh angel road. Is that what you're saying.

F

Yes, something like that: yep, okay, I get it. You didn't measure it, but I get that um now.

D

The tent, you show what kind of tent that's a 45 by 100 foot tent. Is that correct? uh So the reason we.

F

Chose those dimensions, is we looked at some of the, um I guess I'll just say, vendors or people.

F

That provide tents in the area, and that was the largest tent that we could see fitting in the area.

F

So I just want to be clear too. If you look at some of our photos, it looks like there's some.

F

Old dilapid buildings and some trees in there and stumps and there's firewood that all has been.

F

Cleaned up so that that actually is just a grass area as well just to be so, people were thinking.

F

What's that other stuff, that that was part of what we talked about in the beginning, that was falling.

F

Down and yes so that that area is clean up, but that was the largest tent, so you know we could put.

F

A 30 by 60 10, if you know they're, only going to have 40 people potentially and you know someone's.

F

Going to have you know a retirement party for their wife for their husband or you know if it's.

F

A small wedding: you know you don't need something that large, but we went with that. So there was a.

F

I guess just like the maximum that would be there well. Is that what you plan on doing or.

D

Or is that maybe what you plan on doing so it would, it would be dependent on.

F

What someone so the way we look at it is if we have- and I'm just gonna make this scenario, we have.

F

Three events: a year, there's one in may one in july and one in august, the first person you're just.

D

Using that as a hypothetical right correct we're a hundred percent going to use a tent outdoors.

F

For the event, but the size is the hypothetical because we'll actually pay somebody to come put.

F

The 10 up they'll put the 10 up when the event's over they'll come back on sunday and take the tent.

F

Down or monday and take the tent down so it'll be removed um within a short period of time.

F

It's just a temporary stroke, we're not building any structures, there'll be no construction.

F

This is just a piece of grass, I don't know how to say it and a tent goes up and they have their.

F

Event and then they'll take it down; okay, so so, essentially, you're applying to.

D

We now know to put up a temporary tent as large as 45 by 100. Is that what it amounts to.

D

Yes, so I assume that tent will not be closed, uh will not be closed in. It will be open.

D

So I I don't want to uh state something inaccurate and the reason I'm saying that is.

F

As we all know in may and anytime in the summer, it could rain. So if it's calling for a thunderstorm.

F

And you're gonna have you know a bunch of money tied up and 60 people coming to your wedding and.

F

They want to have you know a side on the one side or two or all sides. I don't know.

F

Whatever is legal and is acceptable, then that is a possibility just to be fair about it. Well will.

D

Will the client pick the tent? Where will you pick the tent, the client, the client, okay, yeah yeah? Well,.

D

What control will you have over that process, so we will only be giving them.

F

The um I guess, the the people that are legally allowed to put up a tent and are approved. I guess.

F

Through the county or have a legitimate business, so then we'll say: here's like the two or three.

F

People that that we um that we would approve of and then here's the different sizes up to.

F

45 by 100, if you're having 50 people, you know, and I would talk to the tent vendor as well, to.

F

Say: hey if you have 50 people from a social distancing perspective, what would you need.

F

And well, you know, as far as size, okay, I would lean on their expertise. Basically, the vendor is that.

D

The business is that generally the business model, then that that the client you all you would do is.

D

Give somebody permission to use your land for five hours or eight hours or whatever, and then.

D

And then that person or that client would then get the caterer get the tent get a band.

D

Ex provide for any alcohol licensing they might need et cetera, is that is that the business model.

D

Basically, yes, I say basically because I have preferred vendors and, for example, like we want.

F

To do everything by the book, so, if somebody's like, oh you know, so-and-so is going to do the catering.

F

Like do they have a license in carroll county to be a caterer like we're going to verify that stuff.

F

But yes, we are, we are basically providing a space for people to within what we're allowed to do.

F

Have an event whether it's a wedding, like I said, or a retirement, it could be a birthday party like.

F

Just in my in, I think in both their heads like you could have people just come and.

F

Have a birthday party with 20 kids and put up a you, know, birthday cake and some tables.

D

Or any really any gathering that met your criteria could could be a client right.

D

As long as I guess, I could have a party invite my if I had a large group of friends or uh maybe.

D

It's a fundraiser for a non-profit uh I could, I could have. uh I could be a client couldn't I so.

F

The only the only thing I would say is we would be selective like to your point. I mean you could.

F

Have uh you know 40 uh 21 year old kids come out and want to have a rock band and a party? And I.

F

Would say we appreciate your looking into us, but that's not what we're trying to accomplish here.

F

So I understand what you're saying, but there is going to be some limitations from us.

F

No north carol uh high school graduation parties, huh no sir, all right.

D

Now you, your morgan fisher, your your wife, described uh at the beginning.

D

How you had improved the property uh since you bought it correct.

D

Yeah, did you get uh permits from the building permit department to do that? Work.

F

Yes, yes, oh yes, we the house. Actually, unfortunately, our plan was to restore the house.

F

And it basically, the foundation was crumbling and it almost it almost went down. um So we actually.

F

Pulled a lot of the some of the material out and that's what you built the chicken coop. We ended.

F

Up having to take the house down, went through all the permits, um so yes, like right well, can.

F

You paint the board, I mean we painted the bar yeah. Okay, I don't think you need a permit for that. Yet.

D

Don't worry, that's that's. Coming.

D

Now, from this orthographic plan that you submitted, I'm having a hard time telling.

D

You know what the inventory of structures on that property are. Can you help me and tell me.

D

Give me a little inventory of the structures that currently exist on that property on your property.

C

um So I don't know how well you can see, um but.

C

Let's see how we can describe this effect as possible.

D

Mrs fisher, how about starting from where you've got the parking area drawn? The rectangle that.

D

Says parking sounds good and then go and then go along deal road and kind of tell me from there. If.

D

You could work to the right, okay, so the first building, that's right. There um is still there.

C

It has like a brown roof um if you move one more building. What is that a barn? Is that a barn.

C

It's um like a it's like a running shed yeah, it's just kind of open. It's like a shell. It's it's.

C

um Nothing in it really per se. What's the white thing, the white rectangle.

D

Immediately, next to it, what's that that is our barn, and that is the bank barn.

D

Okay, go ahead, I'm sorry! No! That's! Okay and then um yeah. You move one more spot over. It's very.

C

Teeny tiny, um that is our chicken coop, is that the brown little brown thing.

H

Yes, um is it up against the road, or is it no? It's further. It's at the it's at the bottom of the.

D

White roof thing yeah, that is my shed. I just have like potting stuff in it like some tools and okay.

C

And then the chicken coop is right after that, up against the road.

D

Okay, I can't see that, but can you see that, can you see the chicken coop on the ortho.

C

um It's very hard, so at one point it was overgrown and um you could not see it. It looks like it's.

C

Fallen over in this picture and you can't really see it, but we had cleaned that off and then we.

C

Built the chicken coop how about the? uh How about the thing that's labeled country in! What's that.

F

That is our home. Okay, that's your house, yes, is. That is that the house, you.

D

Built new, or did you rebuild another house or how did that house get there.

C

We built that house. Yes, so the picture of it, the one that's in the um picture itself is.

C

The old home that we had to tear down, unfortunately, and then, we've rebuilt a new home.

D

Okay, and so that's the country in yes, yeah, what part of that's the country in.

D

Is it all of it, or I mean you're, going to live there right with three kids.

D

Yes, okay, so how's that going to be a country in so we have. We have rooms available uh for.

F

People to stay if they would like um and that's that's pretty much okay. So if people would like.

F

To stay they can stay, but how many rooms, how many, how many bedrooms does the house have.

D

Bedrooms uh there's three to three bedrooms: okay, and and are they taken up by.

D

You and your I mean you know where I'm going here. How are people going to stay in there.

D

Where are they going to stay in that house? So this is. This is a fair question. I mean.

F

We've certainly had people stay here before so um you know there is rooms available uh for.

F

People to stay in, but you know they can stay on different floors. um There is areas for people to.

F

You know basically rest at their head or or they can stay in the lower level we can. We can allow.

F

Them to stay in one of the bedrooms, if they so choose, I mean we've got you gotcha, I got. I got it.

D

So um but you really don't intend for people to uh use that as a bed and breakfast type thing you.

D

Know do you, I think that it it's whatever people would like. I mean if they want to.

F

So um we feel like if somebody would like to stay here, they're more than welcome and we'll.

F

Make them breakfast if they, if they want us to, if, uh if they okay, so how about so.

D

That's for one couple right or one person um that's up to them. I mean I don't want to put.

F

A restriction or say something inaccurate, so I mean it's a country and they have a.

F

They have a room available to them if they would like to stay here, um three rooms, it's gonna, be.

F

I'm sorry how about three rooms available to them? If they'd, like I mean it's, it's my wedding.

D

And I'd like my uh in-laws or future in-laws to stay and my and my parents to stay there.

F

If that's what they want, we'll make it happen. Okay, gotcha.

D

um I mean you're really truly gonna say that, because it doesn't sound like that's practical, but.

D

That's your answer and you're sticking to it right. Yes,.

D

Now, how do you propo who's, going to be responsible for handling the traffic on deal road.

D

When there's an event.

F

um So I personally.

F

Don't think they'll be.

F

uh A major need for like a uh what's the word like uh like when you're going the ball game.

F

In baltimore city, where you need a police officer out there directing traffic, I mean.

F

The way I look at it is, you know I I'm like all of us. We've gone to lots of weddings like.

F

You come to the address. There's two entrances. We will have a sign out there to say, like you.

F

Know parking and they'll turn in and we'll have you know cones set up to kind of you know in a.

F

Sense guide you, I will probably be out there just to be fair about it. um You know it could be morgan.

F

It could be my eldest daughter as well, so one of us will be out there just to to be.

F

To answer your question, but to me it's not like uh we need like a traffic director, okay and and.

D

So it's fair to say that you uh and your family intend to be present on the premises.

D

During all or most of these events right.

D

All of them, okay- and you said in your your testimony or one of you- did- that you're.

D

You're, looking at may 1st to october 1st, is that correct? Yes, is that a hard, uh a hard commitment.

D

Or would you do one on october 31st for halloween? If somebody wanted to pay the price pay, the price.

F

uh I mean that's a fair question, I I'll be honest. I hadn't really thought about it like if.

F

To your point, if somebody says well the weekend, is we want to do it on october 3rd? Would we would we.

F

Tell them no, um I think it was a rough guesstimate. I I don't know if you know, if, if the board had a.

F

Concern and wanted it to be a may 1st october 1st. We would certainly abide by that, but I don't think.

F

It was a hard stop, at least in my mind, I mean I'm not we're not going to do it in winter, but it's.

F

Yeah it was, it was a guesstimate okay. um How many people would be the maximum people that.

D

Would be allowed to come on your property if you got this approval for one of these events.

F

99, okay, why is that uh that's my understanding from speaking to different departments, um I.

F

Guess just to kind of cover. All of that, like my understanding, is the maximum of events is 12.

F

And the maximum amount of people is 99, and that includes us.

F

So you know really the people can only have you know if you figure there's. You know three.

F

People for catering and there's a photographer, I'm talking about a wedding specifically and.

F

You know myself, my wife, I mean really we're talking about like they could have maximum a.

F

Wedding of like 90 people, but again, if it's like a retirement party or a birthday party,.

F

I I mean I've been to some birthday parties, but never a hundred people. So, okay, so you so you're.

D

You're gonna limit it to 99 or or less yeah. Don't you tell me and you're going to limit.

D

It to 12 events per year or less is that what you're saying yes, okay, now? How are you going to.

D

Enforce that, when the client, when the client calls up you're going to say, hey 99 or maybe with your.

D

Family, it's 93 right! If you did, you say they count you in that 99, so you're going to limit to 93 or.

D

People, that's you're, going to tell the client that right! Yes, how are you going to enforce that.

F

um You know trying to be fair about it: you're going to have to do some sort of headcount, but.

F

I think that the the way I would look at it is these people will come up with a list and and.

F

This is again on the maximum side of things I mean, I don't think every event or party is going to be.

F

A wedding at 99 people- I just don't think that so, if you do go there, they're going to come up with a.

F

List they're going to have to figure out like with the catering people. You know we're gonna have.

F

You know they're gonna tell them we're gonna. Have you know 80 people.

F

And we need this much chicken or whatever they're going to have so.

F

Things like that will help us kind of guide them through the process tables right, yeah, okay,.

D

Will the if, if somebody wants to have a wedding, will they be allowed to have entertainment.

D

Yes, okay, will they be allowed to have alcohol.

F

If they, we won't provide it, but if they go through the proper process, I mean yes, yes, okay,.

D

And where will they go to the bathroom.

F

uh We will have, and that was another part of like the economic. We will have um a temporary.

F

Spot a pot, so you have a handicap potentially in a regular uh spot, a pot that would be dropped off.

F

You know the day before and then removed. I think we've talked to, I think we talked to hughes and a.

F

Couple other people, um I can't remember the other one but yeah it's like a it's like a three-day.

F

Process, they drop it off the day before the event, and then they come pick it up. The next day.

F

Or I think the monday, so it could sit there, for I guess three or four days. Yeah right is your.

D

So the traffic that's associated with this use would be the day of the event. People would come.

D

And they'd do their thing right. uh Prior to the event, there would be deliveries of pots pop.

D

Spot of pots etc. Right, subsequent to the event, there would be pickups of spada pots, etc. Right.

D

Correct, okay: prior to the event, there would be delivery. The tent people would show up right.

D

That's correct, okay, after the event, the ten people would show up to take it down right.

D

Yes, that is correct. uh Any alcohol or caterer would uh show up whenever they needed to to prep.

D

For the event right, yeah sure do you do you intend to have cooking facilities available or would it.

D

All be off-site catered I'll. Probably all right um is there a dump located on on the property you own.

D

Not that I'm aware of where, where you know what I mean, when I say: dump where people dumped old.

D

Stuff, like washing machines, barrels, wood, trash et cetera- I I don't know they dump okay gotcha.

D

Bear with me one second, I'm all I think that's close to the end for me.

D

Yeah, I believe you said, um or I believe mrs fisher said.

D

That it's, it's purely an outside event, nobody's going to be allowed inside any of the buildings.

D

Except for your house, if they want to stay there right.

C

Yes, okay, correct! Now what, with regard to the parking area.

D

What natural vegetation exists to screen that parking area from deal road if any.

F

uh There there is a I'm just gonna guess, like a four foot, wide strip of grass right now and then.

F

There's a couple cedar trees up around uh kind of the end of the property. uh I guess closer.

F

Towards where you mentioned, that turn would be on deal road just on that end, um it's kind of just.

F

Really, actually, I plan it in there, as when people come around, the lights will shine down towards.

F

The house, so it's a just a little barrier, but there's really um there's not a whole lot. I mean.

D

Yeah, the author doesn't show, and he does it, the ortho doesn't show any of it. Does it.

D

I'm I'm not sure either we'll take a look at it. It doesn't look like it.

F

I don't know we planted them small, but it does not look like it now. Okay,.

D

Could could could someone physically, I'm not, I know you're not planning on having an entrance.

D

Adjacent to the parking area, but if someone wanted, could you take a pickup truck and drive.

D

Off steel road and get into that parking area, is it level there I mean there's a um a gutter if you.

F

Will but I mean I guess if you're asking me if I had a pickup truck and I wanted to you, know, ram.

F

Ram into the field I mean I, I could definitely do it. Maybe do it. Okay, so there's a there's, a.

D

Drainage gutter: that's that really serves to uh uh support deal road between the paved the.

D

The gravel surface and your parking area- correct yes, okay, gotcha um all right! Thank you.

D

That's all the questions I have at this time. uh I would like to note that I don't know is: is mrs.

D

Guyton or mrs marcus on the on the call now yes we're here, okay and and so they are my clients.

D

There on the call- and uh that's all I have for now- thank you. Thank you, mr shaffer. Does anyone else.

A

From the community have any uh questions of the fisher's testimony and remember this is questions.

A

Of their testimony, you'll have the opportunity to give your own testimony a little bit later.

G

This is chris tomlinson. I I don't have any questions. uh I just wanted to uh comment.

G

On the application, uh I imagine at the end of the meeting I think was the appropriate time, but I did.

G

Not have any questions for the fishers. Okay. Thank you, mr tomlinson. uh Anyone else from the public.

A

Okay, seeing none board members questions of the fisher's testimony.

A

Mr simmons.

A

Dr dunkelberger, thank you. uh Will you have any employees.

F

I guess other than us: no okay, and will there be any signage out by the road.

H

Yes, what year did you graduate from high school in 2002 in 2001? What almost.

A

Okay, any other questions board members, ms eckerd.

E

um Yes, please could you just tell me a little bit more about where, in your three-bedroom home.

E

With you said, you had three children where, where, specifically, you would actually accommodate guests.

E

If they wanted to stay, I mean, I know that when you initially presented your case, you indicated.

E

That there would be nobody in the house um as a result of your concerns regarding covid.

E

Or excuse me nobody in any of the buildings as a result of your concerns regarding kovid.

E

And it's not completely clear in my mind where you would accommodate guests in your home so that.

E

They would be perhaps separate from your family, your children, so if you could clarify that that.

E

Would be great sure sure, so you know I I guess the first thing is I try to be flexible, so I I thought.

F

If someone came to us and said we hadn't been stroked out of town, our you know, grandparents.

F

Or whoever whatever and they they they want to stay there. You know, in my mind and we've.

F

Talked about this lightly, you know if it was a if it came down to somebody wanted to basically.

F

Be here um for the for all the rooms, in a sense, something similar to like an airbnb, we would allow.

F

That to happen, that would not be the norm, but we would let that happen. So they could. We basically.

F

Go somewhere else and and they could use the the place. But in a more uh I think, straightforward.

F

Answer is they? There is a room in the lower level of our home. That is actually has a entrance to the.

F

Outside that they could stay in and that's that's the I think the more viable solution so you'd be.

F

On a separate floor, this is a new house, so it has sprinklers, even though, when you drive by it, looks.

F

We tried to make it similar to what was there, but it has sprinklers again. There's an outdoor.

F

um Entrance on the lower level- and they would be they could be separate from us. You sure words.

I

Yes, I have a question about deal road on my site visit I didn't notice deal road is.

I

Unpaved, it did appear to be in good condition from that standpoint, but it was obviously a very narrow.

I

Road, when you were asked by mr shaffer about the road you I believe I heard you say it's 20 or 22.

I

Feet wide, that would be your estimate that road didn't appear to be any wider than 14 feet. To me,.

I

I mean: would you disagree with that and 14 feet? There's a question there: whether that.

I

Provides adequate width for uh vehicles to pass each other, so could you elaborate on that.

F

So I understand what you're saying- and there is some uh tight, tighter spots along the road um I I.

F

I guess my thought was probably at the wider spots, the road.

F

Definitely has narrower and wider. I mean it's not uh like a paver where it's.

F

Static the whole way, so I acknowledge your point. um I guess the one uh benefit I in my mind to the.

F

Property is that we are the last property on deal road that connects to sales mill. So I feel like.

F

The road is wider again, maybe it's not 22 feet. That's that's very fair, but.

F

But I I feel that there is enough room for people to safely pass each other from from our entrance.

F

To our property to sells mill road, um but I I acknowledge what you're saying like it might.

F

Not be 22 feet or 20 feet at every point, like that's fair, well, my observation was that deal.

I

Red might be adequate to serve the existing uses along the road, but really question whether it's.

I

Suitable for a banquet facility, thank you.

A

Sure, mr simmons, you have any questions.

J

A

Okay, at this point, does anyone want to provide testimony of their own uh concerning this case.

G

Hi this is chris tomlinson. uh I I assume this is the appropriate time to uh just kind of.

G

Make a statement- yes all right! Thank you uh chairman. Vice chairman members of the board,.

G

It's great to be with you today uh over the phone of course, uh I'm here to speak in favor.

G

Of the fishers application for conditional use, uh as I stated my name is chris tomlinson. uh I'm.

G

A member of the county's historical preservation commission, which hears uh similar requests uh but.

G

Just from the belgian uniontown and a former member of manchester's board zoning appeal so.

G

I also find myself in your shoes, and I can uh sympathize with all of you just a little bit.

G

So I speak in favor of this application, not just because I've known the fishers most of my life.

G

But because I'm incredibly impressed with what this family's been able to do with this property.

G

And this isn't just their properties as they've stated, this is their home.

G

I first visited their new home in 2018, not long after they purchased it. This poor farm was really.

G

Just a shell of its former self and was in much in need of some love and some major improvements.

G

And what the fishers have been able to do and what they still have uh in their plans is nothing short.

G

Of amazing, they have rehabilitated and have given new life to what was really a decrepit broken down.

G

Farm they now have some livestock, as they stated they're growing fruit, vegetables, flowers, plants.

G

And they may have been able to take their products to local farmers markets.

G

The fishers, what they've done is really they've added one more operable farm to carroll, county and.

G

uh What the fishers are requesting today uh for conditional use they're not trying to change.

G

The landscape or drop some warehouse or shopping center on their property. What they're requesting.

G

This conditional use for is because, like they said they want to host small events on a select basis.

G

On their farm, in no way does conditional use take away from keeping carroll county beautiful.

G

Or rural, in fact, I would say it helps preserve a farm that up until recently was all but forgotten.

G

Mr and mrs fisher, they grew up in carroll county and they decided as adults to not just stay in.

G

Carroll county, but to raise their family here, and they also decide to take on the endeavor.

G

Of resurrecting a farm which I'm sure, as all of you can imagine, is not very easy, but by granting.

G

This application you're really helping a family who is contributing towards carroll counties.

G

Contributing towards keeping carroll county agricultural for decades to come.

G

And with that I speak in favor of approving their request. Thank you.

A

Okay, just stay right there. Chris does anyone have any questions of his testimony? Mr schaefer.

D

Yeah, mr tomlinson, uh good after good morning, can you hear me yeah yeah good morning, mr tomlinson.

D

If this application is approved, how will it affect you in the peaceful enjoyment of your home.

G

Over here in uh manchester, uh it will not uh affect me too much as uh not an adjacent.

G

Property owner, do you own any property on deal road or do you live on deal road.

D

I do not okay. Thank you. That's all I have for mr tomlinson. All right. Thank.

D

You anybody else from the public have any ques questions of mr tomlinson's. Testimony.

A

Okay board members, any questions of mr tomlinson's. uh Testimony.

A

Okay s, seeing thank you, mr tomlinson. um I think we have identified as caller ii. um Do you.

A

Want to make any comments, those are my clients, mr, I believe that's, mrs guyton and mrs marcus and.

D

They are content to have me register their objection.

D

To this request yeah, but I think people we have someone else, that's caller too. We have.

A

I have now, I think I have them as admin on my screen. So caller two. Could you identify.

A

Yourself: okay, very, very good! um Is there any does anyone want to provide any testimony at this point.

A

Miss johnson: do you want to provide any testimony at this point or no.

G

Okay, thank you. Seeing no further public uh participation.

A

um Presentation of testimony and evidence is now closed and summations are in order.

A

um The applicant is first, so that means you get to go first.

A

The fisher family and then interested parties and protestants, so that would be you, mr schaefer, so.

A

Fischer, so you can go ahead and give your information comments if you would like.

F

I guess I would first say just thank you, everybody for taking time out of your day to.

F

To at least hear us out and whatever the outcome is we appreciate it, um the only.

F

Other comment, I would say, is the objection um that mr schaefer is bringing up, um has no one living.

F

On that property uh there's no home there, so um I think the question that mr schaefer presented.

F

To chris, which is how much would it affect you living in manchester? I would, I would say.

F

You know I would ask that same question with it, with there being no home on the property that.

F

You know, I guess is objecting to this. How much does it affect you know your client, mr.

F

Schaefer when they don't live there and that's all again, thank you, everybody for your time.

A

Okay, thank you very much, mr fisher. uh Mr schaefer, do you have any summation comments.

D

Yes, thank you. um You know.

D

It's uh it's ironic to me that mr fisher would make that last comment.

D

Because he knows exactly why there's no buddy living next door to him! um It's because.

D

Mrs guyton cannot get electric service.

D

Which needs a connection through a small part of his property. However, putting that irony aside.

D

It's it's it's easy to sympathize with mr mrs fisher. uh They they present a uh somewhat.

D

Compelling well sympathetic type case: they just want to use their property. However,.

D

Uses like this.

D

Banquet event, facilities.

D

As the board knows have a potential to have a significant effect.

D

On neighboring property owners, the traffic network, etc. This is not like a one-chair beauty.

D

Shop or even a contract equipment, storage yard with 10 10 pieces of equipment and so.

D

It seems to me that the applicants for such a use and by the way this is, I think, what.

D

Eight or nine acre piece of ground: this is not a large parcel in the ag district, but people that.

D

Make these kind of applications have an obligation to present to the board.

D

Information that allows the board to in good conscience, evaluate the case and make a decision.

D

In in this case, what has been presented is a uh bare bones. um I don't mean this negatively, but an.

D

Amateur you know I get it, I get it, they don't have. You know they're trying to get into this.

D

With a low investment, um but to present this sketch that you can't even hardly read.

D

No traffic testimony whatsoever, even the barest bones, of average daily trips, the width of the road.

D

The surface of the road I had to ask about it.

D

That doesn't fulfill, in my opinion, their obligation to the board to present a case that.

D

Gives the board they they have an obligation under, and we know we all know that. There's a favorable.

D

Legal standard for conditional use applications, it's the schulte bridge right, but here's a key.

D

Aspect of schultz d, pritz that doesn't get quoted often, and that is the applicant- has an obligation.

D

To make a prima facie case that shows they comply with the standards of the ordinance.

D

One of those standards is traffic safety and conditions listed in your your list of conditions.

D

Now, I'm not going to dwell on the fact that it's almost like the elephant in the room.

D

Which is it's? Not a country inn, it's an event facility that you can get into for a zero.

D

Dollar, investment, let the client do the stuff and you just collect money and I'm not saying.

D

They won't do it responsibly. They seem like good people and they've got a history of doing.

D

Improving the property um but, for instance, your the standards for country in in.

D

uh Section 7c of the applicable code says parking shall be provided on site.

D

And screened by natural vegetation from public streets and adjoining properties.

D

It's clear that this application does not meet that standard and that's not.

D

Posited as a maybe or anything like that, it says you're supposed to have it.

D

And the definition of country in is the reason and listen. I get this because, as you all know, we.

D

I represent people that want country ends and this this this requirement to have in the room.

D

Is something that people have to squeeze around to to meet? Well, this squeeze around just doesn't.

D

That dog doesn't hunt, um there's not going to be a room available now and let's, let's be real here,.

D

Hi, you know I'd like to do an event there and, and the wedding party would like to stay what.

D

What are your accommodations like? Well, we'll put one of the kids out of the bed. You know you could.

D

No nobody's going to stay there um and that's part of the definition of the country. Yet so, while.

D

You know, while sympathetic and- and I I think it's I mean I kind of it just doesn't pass- muster.

D

And you should not uh vote to authorize it. um This is not something that you should say well, we'll.

D

Let the site plan people worry about all that um uh and now let's talk about the peaceful enjoyment.

D

Of people in their home, my client owns property right next door wants to sell it for a single.

D

Family residence, um you know, ask yourselves, and this is a nine acre piece of ground- the parking.

D

Is over there they're going to have up to 99 people there on a on a july evening, outdoor music.

D

Yes, if, if you, if the band, if the bride wants it, that's what we're having porta potts well,.

D

Okay, alcohol, some people that drink alcohol- sometimes don't wait in line for porta pot.

D

I mean I know that from experience and so.

D

This will, and unlike many areas of the ag zone, which is the schulze pitch standard, is there.

D

Is this going to have an adverse effect here above and beyond? Okay, this one is on deal road.

D

On a small parcel next to other small parcels that are slated for residential development.

D

uh It's it's. It's shaped such that the a large part of the operation is right next to deal road.

D

um Yes, this will have adverse effects above and beyond those inherently associated and.

D

Mrs guyton and mrs marcus are here to object to it. Thank you.

A

Thank you, mr shaffer. um The hearing and record of this case is now closed and in accordance.

A

With the open meetings act of maryland, the board will now consider the case board members.

A

Who wants to go first.

I

I'm not persuaded this is a country and.

I

I agree with the comments mr schaefer made, but, in addition, there's a definition of country in.

I

In the regulations and it's one sentence, any dwelling in which rooms are rented.

I

To paying guests on an overnight basis with meals served daily, I haven't heard anything about meals.

I

Being served daily, so if I'm not persuaded- or at least the applicant has not persuaded me that.

I

This is going to be a bona fide country and.

I

In order to get a banquet facility, you need to be a country inn, so one follows the other.

I

I'm also concerned about deal road for dirt road. The surface was in good condition, but.

I

Again, it's very narrow, um in my opinion, it's a substandard road. Now.

I

um And it'd be extremely substandard as far as accommodating a banquet facility.

A

Oops. Thank you, mr works board. Members. One comment as chair: we have, in the past limited number of.

A

A number of events we have limited the time of events as far as the cut off time in the evening.

A

And we have also limited the number of people that could be at these wedding venues.

A

So just those are things that we have done and we need to look at 150, 807, d7e.

A

Because it seems like the fishers have intentions of more than wedding venues and.

A

We we need to address that. It says in addition to providing meals is allowed here under the bca may.

A

Authorize a country in it provides facilities in catering for banquets, weddings receptions, reunions.

A

And similar one-day events, these events shall not be open to the public, um so it's I know we have.

A

In the past, limited of the activities to um wedding receptions or wedding, slash, wedding.

A

Receptions uh only so just think about that in your deliberations, okay, who wants to go next.

A

Dr dunkelberger.

H

One observation before we go further: I don't know how many of these country in requests we've had.

H

But I can't think of one that wasn't difficult. The the whole country in concept is is very hard.

H

To work with- and I think as as we talk about this further- that's something we need to keep in mind.

A

Dr dunkelberger, I wholeheartedly agree, and I think, with the code that we're dealing with it's.

A

Extremely outdated um needs to be updated, with certain restrictions put on it. um However, I'm.

A

Assuming that that will be done because we're in the in the process of updating the master plan.

A

In the conservation and ag zone, and I would hope that uh the planning department does look at this.

A

Because it is we, we have seen it be very burdensome to prove that there is a room for.

A

Rent- um and this is one of those cases- okay, miss eckerd- would you like to make comments.

E

Thank you, mr bale. um I'm I'm in agreement with mr works. I'm I'm concerned that the standard for.

E

Country in has not been met in this instance. um I I don't want to be disrespectful, but I feel like.

E

That there is not a cohesive plan per se, in effect, yet um as to what exactly.

E

Would be happening on this property with regard to you know number of people.

E

Size of events recognizing that it would be a fluid. You know a fluid situation depending on.

E

What the clients were looking for um the size, the smaller size of the parcel concerns me.

E

um I know that we typically you know view these things or have you know, have in past cases looked.

E

At these as favorable, but this location is, is right along deal road, um you know again, and I.

E

Also agree with mr words that it's it's appears to be a substandard road, so I have some concerns.

E

That I'm just not comfortable with yet saying that I would vote in favor of it.

A

Okay, thank you, miss eckert, um I'm going to go ahead and give my comments. I see mr simmons.

A

He's not at his microphone. um I have a lot of concerns I was. I was in total shock when.

A

I did my site visit on my own on a rainy day and didn't realize that deal road was one of the few.

A

County roads that is not paved even a portion of it and I drove it all the way to the other end and.

A

Even though there was no sun, I actually found my way home. um I've got concerns about it and.

A

I realized that they're only about 100 yards roughly from a hard surface road.

A

And I looked at the property- and I know that we have in the past turned down wedding venue.

A

Events when you're looking at the proximity to um existing homes- and I really question.

A

In in the way, it's situated, uh what what type of uh boundaries we could, what kind of conditions.

A

We could put on this approval that would lessen the impact um on the neighborhood uh as far as.

A

Wedding, wedding sounds, you know, fans amplified, speeches and, and everything that goes with it.

A

And I'm also in agreement about the uh the the the rooms for rent.

A

um We've seen a lot of others where there are um dedicated dedicated rooms uh that are available.

A

For rent- and it doesn't seem that this would have a dedicated room again, we're dealing with.

A

The the ordinances that are enacted as of today and our discussions.

A

I think have indicated some of the inadequacies in the code and hopefully uh these things will.

A

Be addressed so that we don't have to make these determinations that this.

A

Is this is this, is a the wedding venue is a huge hole in our zoning code? In my opinion,.

A

So with that, mr simmons, would you like to make any comments? Well, yes, I would. I agree.

J

That the problem under discussion is not the presentation nor the couple that's making.

J

The presentation but the inadequacy of our code. However, in the past 10 years that I've sat here.

J

We've probably had five of these considerations for wedding venue every year.

J

I don't remember turning anyone down correct me if I'm wrong, mr bale, oh yes, we did on sullivan road.

J

Lisa you're shaking your head. I think that means I'm wrong. You remember something that we've denied.

E

The one that comes to my mind um quickly is the one that.

E

Mr vale just referenced the one on sullivan road that was on a smaller lot.

E

Not you know not similarly positioned to this one but smaller lot size with neighbors within.

E

Fairly close proximity: well, I rode up and down this road. I didn't find one neighbor.

J

I I think any consideration calling this a neighborhood is a misnomer. I think it's ridiculous.

J

These people have purchased a farm they're very upfront about their intention.

J

Mrs fisher lost her employment is looking to make income. That's fine. She got three kids at home.

J

Why not take advantage of the farm, I'm inclined to say we've granted many of these with the same.

J

Basic code and the same basic restrictions imposed by the code, not by the folks so.

J

I I don't, I don't see the roadway as dennis. Does I I think if you've got 40 cars coming in and out.

J

Over a 30 minute period of time, I think that road's going to be able to handle that.

J

I can't imagine that there's going to be a massive traffic jam.

J

I don't see any other residents on the road who are going to be inconvenienced and I.

J

Certainly, don't think the road itself is going to be destroyed because of.

J

Maybe eight events a year max would be. My guess is: what's going to happen, even if that.

J

I I don't see the validity of that dissent, so I'm going to vote in favor.

E

I'm sorry, I absolutely agree with your analysis because you're talking to me gary.

J

What are you talking about my analysis? Yes, yeah? Okay, because every one of these that I remember.

H

Has been kind of loosey-goosey uh and they're, it's a code, so I vote yes.

E

I I agree. I agree that oftentimes, um it's not nailed down specifically, but my concern.

E

um Mr simmons, you used the word. It was your guess that that would be what was going to happen. My I.

E

Think my big concern in this instance is: we are guessing as to what's going to happen.

E

On this property, is it, is it going to be 8? Is it going to be 10? Is it going to be 40 people.

E

Is it going to be 100 people I don't I haven't, I mean I think what I'm saying is in order.

E

You know recognizing that we typically are lenient with these kinds of things.

E

Because there's so much uncertainty with regard to this request.

E

I think there should be if, if I'm inclined, if I were going to be inclined to grant this request, I.

E

Think it would have to have a lot of stipulations and conditions on it, and I haven't. I haven't heard.

E

Anybody maybe suggest what that might be. I think I think melvin was hinting at. Some conditions were.

J

You not melvin well that wasn't that wasn't part of the presentation and it's kind of interesting.

A

In past presentations of concerning wedding venues, the applicant has offered a limit or a range.

A

Of activities to be held um and and cut off dates as far as in the spring or in the summer.

A

uh You know what what what months it would be limited to and also the hours of operation, because.

A

As as we have, as we have found out in in some wedding venues that were operating without.

A

Our approval and then came in for approval. The biggest concern was the the noises associated.

A

With the wedding venue and the hours of operation, so those things were not addressed.

A

We can address those uh in our discussions here to to form a motion. um I'm not really, I'm not really.

A

Sure what the applicant's intentions are here uh we have, we have limited, we have limited.

A

Some wedding venues to less events per month than there were weekends, um so if they were open for.

A

Let's, let's just call it, uh let's just call it the 15 weekends. uh We limited them to a number.

A

Less than that, I'm not sure whether it fits in to the fishers um plan, because we didn't see a.

A

Formal plan we saw more ideas and, if they're going into the birthday party retirement party thing.

A

I could see it being used, maybe more than uh once a weekend and I'm not really sure the intensity.

A

Of the use at this point I thought I did hear this.

H

I I heard may of october I heard uh 10 events and uh 99 people max.

J

I heard all those numbers did we hear our hours of operation.

H

No, we did not. We did not no, not past 10 a.m or 10 p.m. Excuse me.

I

And again, the the those are conditions that we can put on this. uh I didn't hear anything offered.

A

Either by mr schaefer uh we're requesting uh any limitations.

A

Or the fishers they were saying up to 10 events, but it wasn't. We will have 10 events between this.

A

uh It was it was, um I don't want to say it it wasn't. It wasn't. De facto it was.

A

More, this is what we think we want, so if we, if we want to get it with 10 events,.

A

And and limit it, then let's have that discussion so that somebody can get a motion on the floor.

J

I'm going to take a hazardous guess at what the shaffers.

J

Fishers excuse me clark, you're, not running this business. Are you.

J

Didn't think so what the fishers might be willing to say. That's fine, too.

J

I'm going to say, 10 events a year with a maximum of 99 people stipulated that.

J

Bathroom facilities be portapots.

J

Alcohol would be through a licensed caterer food would be through a licensed caterer.

J

Size of the tent, no more than 45 to 100 feet.

J

Time of the event.

J

And days of the week, I'm going to say weekends only because that's my guess as to what you think.

J

I don't know that, but that's my guess and.

J

Up to, but not beyond, 10 p.m. On a given event,.

J

Could I see a shake of a head, at least from the fishers.

J

That that, and I got a smile- that's great.

A

Okay was that, in the form of a motion I didn't hear, the first couple of words was.

A

That in the form of emotion, mr simmons, no, but I would make the motion that we approve this.

J

And I I can't emphasize enough: the problem with this presentation is not with the presenters. It's.

J

With our code, it needs to change, we don't change the code. We live with the code that we've got.

J

And we've wrestled with this time after time after time, so I would say.

J

I move that we approve this uh request for a wedding venue.

J

uh With the limits and conditions that I just discussed.

A

Yeah, okay, but what I want to know is: would you be amicable to.

A

uh Also, including that no permanent structure being put up.

A

Where the temperature direction, I I don't think, there's any intention of a permanent structure.

J

None whatsoever, I believe these people- okay and that's what I because I know what has occurred.

A

I know what I've seen in different wedding venues: uh there's a portable tank then, and there is a a.

A

Slab of concrete uh there- and I just wanted to make sure that we have that in our conditions.

A

um Dr dunkelberger.

J

Gary, yes, great! Yes, yes, that's three! Yes,.

H

Very good, I second that motion so do we have any discussion on the motion.

A

uh Mr can I can I interject something: please come up in other cases, does the 10 pm beyond 10 pm.

B

Mean that the band stops playing at 10 p.m or everyone's got to be gone by 10 pm.

J

I don't know how you legislate. This is the end of the event. I certainly think.

J

When the ban stops and the bar closes, the event quickly ends thereafter.

J

At least the ones that I've gone to so, I would say yes, 10 p.m; restriction on food, drink, entertainment,.

J

I see a shake of two heads they're in the positive. I agree, mr and mrs fisher.

J

They're saying yes, yes, yes thank you.

C

Thank you does that. Does that answer the question for legal sufficiency.

A

A

Okay, um I see you have a comment and then I'll get to you dennis.

E

Before we vote on this, I would just like to go on the record of saying I don't.

E

I don't doubt what mr and mrs fisher are saying either. um I do agree with.

E

Mr simmons and dr dunkelberger, my concern again on the motion on the table. Is we just.

E

Effectively speculated what we believe that they want.

J

um I just asked them if they would concur with what I just stated and.

J

I got two positive head shakes and a thumbs up.

J

That means they concur with what I said. Do you want them to state that.

J

Mr mrs fisher, would you say yes, I agree with what mr simmons just stipulated.

C

Yes, I agree to what mr simmons stipulated. Thank you. Thank you. Does that help melvin? Yes, okay,.

I

Yeah, just I want a clarification of the motion.

I

I heard the wedding venue mentioned in the motion, but I didn't hear anything.

I

About the board, as approving a country in is, did I miss that or or not? No, I think.

J

Maybe I'm missing, I'm sorry. This is so awkward. I have to look at you on a screen to see when you.

J

Stop there's a delay in the in your voice by about five seconds uh on the screen, believe it or not. So.

J

I misspoke, I should have said instead of wedding venue.

J

Conditional use for a country inn and banquet.

J

Facility, let that be the motion, I think that's appropriate. Dennis.

A

Okay, mr secretary, any any anything else, any other questions or comments did you accept.

J

Did you accept gary second to the motion? Yes, I did. Thank you all three.

A

Hey, do you have any, I see your mics on. You have any.

A

Any further comments about the motion, well just comments on the motion itself.

I

Yeah again, I'm not persuaded this is a country in the definition to me is very clear.

I

I'd like to state the applicant has not persuaded me that this is a bona fide.

I

Country inn: I understand, there's reservations about whether the road is adequate or not.

I

But if it doesn't comply with the definition, a country in, I think.

I

That's a that's a major problem: okay, board members. Any final comments.

A

Go on once twice okay, so we have a motion on the floor with.

A

uh Quite a few conditions that I'm assuming that mr dixon has recorded.

A

uh So so, with that, all those in favor of the motion raise your right hand.

A

All opposed raise your right hand. Okay. The motion fails.

A

So with that, our oral decision will become final upon a written decision which will be issued.

A

Within 30 days, unless otherwise extended by the board, and the board's decision may be appealed.

A

By filing a petition for judicial review with the clerk of the circuit court for carroll county in.

A

Accordance with the provisions of chapter 200, title vii of the maryland rules of procedure.

A

The appeal must be filed within 30 days of the date of the board's written decision. uh Thank.

A

You very much for your attention during this um hearing and this this hearing is uh concluded.

A

uh Board members stay on, we have a little bit of business to uh to attend to thank you.

A

This is officially our december uh hearing and, according to our bylaws.

A

Mr dixon, I actually read them over the holiday and we are to elect officers.

A

I don't know why we always did in february or march or april or sometimes august, but we're.

A

To elect officers, so at this point I will open up the floor for nominations for chair.

J

I nominate melvin vale as chair and lisa eckert, as vice chair.

E

Half of that was okay. Pardon me.

J

What did you say, lisa I'd like the first half of that I'll. Second, the.

E

Second or the first half of that I'll say never mind and honestly I'll say I. I can't.

A

I can't disagree with that unless we flip-flop who's chair and vice chair, because according.

A

To our bylaws, I think mr works is still an alternate member and he can't assume that position.

A

And we have two guys that are soon going to be on the dinosaur club for the bza. um I resent that.

A

So, okay, so we have a motion on the floor to retain the chair and the vice chair for the uh year. 2021.

A

All those in favor aye, aye aye, all opposed. No. Can I bring up another matter for the board.

A

Mr dixon, since it's you and it's the the new year, yes, we will allow you, okay, we haven't.

B

Had a live hearing for since I don't know march or february, but uh if you recall I I I.

B

Like the last time we had hearings, I allowed joe to send you the all the exhibits in advance.

B

If you recall, when we have live hearings, you don't see the exhibits before the hearing.

B

At the hearing I read what's in the file and then the followers passed down, I know there's something.

B

Some decisions when the file wasn't passed down to the last person and uh the hearing had been.

B

Concluded so I I just don't, want you to remember, that's how that's how it used to be. We will get.

B

Back to that, but getting things in advance. I only did that when, when that hearing was complicated.

B

And I thought it might be helpful, but you're not necessarily going to get all the exhibits.

B

Before hearing, but that's how it used to be and then when we may go back to that eventually.

B

But I I'm just saying you have it in the past: you have it even for these virtual hearings.

B

Gotten all exhibits before the hearing, so don't expect to get everything before the hearing.

B

No, no- and I I know in some of these more complicated cases.

A

uh Where you have attorneys representing each side, um there have been the late additions to the file.

A

As it would be, if we were doing live hearings um so, but I don't think that's correct.

B

No side has to present every anything to us before, there's no requirement that they have to have.

B

Order evidence to us before the hearing they could do just what we do for live.

B

Hearings or for in-person hearings give it give us everything at that time.

B

So I just want to remind you guys that that that's permissible that you used to.

B

Be how it was all the time? Okay and so we're meeting legal sufficiency that there's no.

A

In the process that we're using now is that correct? Yes, I just wanted to keep you on board.

B

It I thought it would be helpful in those cases last month to have everything you could get.

B

Because they they weren't typical cases and they and there were- I guess, two attorneys.

B

Involved so or at least one attorney involved in them, so I thought it would be helpful.

A

Yes and and uh kudos to matt and chris for making sure that the exhibits were uh posted. I mean.

A

Holy toledo, they were posting the um exhibits before the attorney was even.

A

um He was anticipating what the uh attorney would uh wanted up as the next exhibit. So I think.

A

I think they they we've adapted to that and done a very good job there. So everybody comfortable.

A

With with the I mean as comfortable as we can be, with these um virtual meetings.

A

Okay, very good, thank you for your attention today and uh we will see you on the 20th of january for.

A

Our um three site visits, uh one of the um one of the cases- has been removed. I it's a kennel up on.

A

um Broadback road, uh so we've that I think that's our third case of the day, so that will not uh be.

A

Okay, thank you very much guys all right. Thank you.

H