Carroll County, MD Carroll County Board of Zoning Appeals, 5 Jan 2022

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From YouTube: Board of Zoning Appeals, January 5, 2022

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A

Witness can she testify okay here and I'm sorry. I have totally forgotten one thing, which is the.

A

Top of my list, if anyone wants to uh is going to testify here today, either for or against the case.

A

Could you please stand and raise your right hand and take the oath.

A

A

Okay, raise your right hand. Please do you swear or firm under the penalties of perjury, that the.

A

Testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

A

Very good, you can be seated sorry about that. Thank you call call ashley hall's my.

B

First, witness may she testify from her seat here absolutely and make make sure that you.

A

State your name address and occupation and spell for the record your last name: okay, go.

A

Ahead, my name is ashley hall. My address is 7600 tremaine place unit 111 in mclean, virginia 22102.

C

I am partner at a accounting firm. The name of the firm is withham smith and brown.

C

Was that all the is there anything I mentioned? I think it was it spell your last name.

B

H-A-L-L, correct yes, h-a-l-l-l and e. I g a-s-h-l-e-I-g-h is your first name correct.

C

Yes, correct right now, uh would you tell the board ashley uh a little bit about how you came to.

B

How you came to own this property and and who, who the owners are- I mean it's. It's listed as a.

B

Warrendorf llc correct: yes, what is warrendorf llc can? What does that consist of so orandorf holdings.

C

Llc is owned by my mom sandy hall and by my sister and her family. That's luke and whitney klosek and.

C

So they are the sole members of orendorf holdings that then own the real estate, okay and and uh how.

B

Did you did is, how are you involved in your and your you have another brother or sister? Don't you.

C

Yes, correct and how are they involved in the enterprise? Yes, so I am listed officially as a.

C

Resident agent, I think that's what it's called for. Orendorf, acting as an administrator of sorts for.

C

For that entity, um as far as when, when we can and here to talk about the conditional use of the.

C

Property is a cottage in provision that business is actually would operate under a separate llc.

C

That has other members of which the entire family is both invested and part of managing. So that is.

C

Where, then, we also include my brother and his wife, caleb and rachel hall, who are here today and will.

C

Be involved in the country, and so to summarize a couple members of the family are going to be the.

B

Owners of the real estate and the remainder of the family, plus, maybe some additional people will be.

B

The operators of the enterprise is that correct. Yes, that's correct. Describe the process that.

B

Resulted in your family's purchase of the property and plans for the country in yeah, so we grew up on.

C

A small family business in a rural setting is our life. My dad started his businesses when he was in.

C

College and had three by the time he passed about five years ago and when I was a small child, my.

C

Parents bought a property up in northern maryland northern frederick county, where it was nine acres.

C

Nestled in farmland where my dad's businesses operated and we lived our home- was a 1741 historic.

C

Stone house which was beautiful, and so that was just a really a dream for us to grow up in so.

C

My dad passed, we sold the businesses about two years later and the properties went with it and.

C

So we then were moved into our respective homes in suburbia, and since then, we just have always wanted.

C

To get back into a rural setting, we just really missed being on a farm in the farmland in a rural.

C

Countryside setting so so you started to look for property, yes, so about we and we started to really.

C

While that itch existed for many years, we really started to seriously look for a property. The.

C

Beginning of 2020, beginning of 2020, and then of course, the real estate market being what it was.

C

We actually didn't come across this property, or this is really the first property that we fell.

C

In love with until may or late april of 2021, so the property popped up in my sister whitney's.

C

um Searches and we were on site the next day to see it and instantly fell in love. So it's a.

C

30, can I just kind of just it's a 33 acre property with a manor home built by john.

C

Orendorf, so that's the reason for the name in 1861 and the grounds are immaculate. It.

C

Has been lovingly preserved for generations by those who have owned it for the past 150 years.

C

And so it's got the it's got the manor house, it has a small rancher and a.

C

Really beautiful bar and with some a few little outbuildings and and the house or the farm.

B

Is on the national register of historic places? Is it not? Yes, it is right and.

B

During this process or before this process, you were also formulating plans for a country in.

B

Is that correct? Yes, exactly so uh one of the challenges with the with the property we loved.

C

It so much it just needs modernization and renovations to get it up to current living.

C

That obviously comes with some financial impacts, and so, as we looked for ways to both.

C

Help make this dream a reality and to restore this beautiful home and property to his original glory.

C

But then also to provide opportunities for others to enjoy it and love it like. We do.

C

That's where the idea for the country in was really born from, and so at that point we, you know.

C

Dug into that idea, we did an extensive viability analysis. Our business plan is over 80 pages.

C

Where we did an in-depth market research is this, you know viable, given where we are situated. Our.

C

Primary market would be the baltimore market a little bit of washington, and then we just really.

C

Think it could really benefit carroll, county and westminster by bringing clientele up this way.

C

Okay, now the board has in its file a drawing that you've had prepared by ddc.

B

Yes, but with, can you just generally describe the portions of the property that would be used for.

B

The country in operation- yes, so the the country in the the guest room and bed and breakfast would.

C

Be in the manor home, there's a bed, a guest room there, and so we would provide overnight.

C

Facilities and and food also breakfast, um though our primary we would like to be able to use it.

C

For wedding events and venues use the property for for that, and so we see that being ceremony sites.

C

Would be outside we'd like to for the reception and for an indoor alternative for ceremonies.

C

Ideally, we'd love to use our bank barn, which is just a beautiful, really structurally sound.

C

Building, if there's some there's, if there's any concerns about that, we could also do a.

C

Tent, which is another option, the site plans that we did submit do show a pad for a tent.

C

To be honest, that's not our first choice because we would prefer not to disrupt any.

C

Land any more than we have to so so it's not your first choice, but it's on there because.

B

As of this point in time, you have you do not know what would be involved in bringing that bank barn.

B

A situation where it would allow events to be held right, yes, and so, if that were to prove undoable or.

B

Financially, not feasible, you would then go to the 10 option. Is that what you're testifying too okay.

B

um Now I think you mentioned, but I want to emphasize, you will have one room available.

B

In the manor house, for the bride and groom to stay overnight, correct, yes, correct all right and.

B

Let's go through the the checklist in section 158 071 d7 of the county code for country is.

B

um The individual rooms which are rented by paying occupants will not contain the cooking facilities.

B

Correct correct, no cooking facilities, okay, the manager must reside well. The property will be.

B

Or occupied correct, yes and furthermore, the manager will reside on the premises right.

B

The parking will be provided in accordance with uh the uh the provisions of the code right. Yes,.

B

um You will not serve meals uh to anybody. That's not a customer correct, correct.

B

Right, um you are asking for the ability to uh provide facilities and catering for banquets.

B

Weddings receptions, reunions and similar one-day events correct, correct and those events will.

B

Not be open to the public, will they? No okay? um Your your property, you just testified, is.

B

Exceeds three acres in size: yes, it's 30, some acres, 33 33. um and the sign that you would.

B

Want to use would not be in excess of two feet by three feet in area. Correct.

B

Correct um you're, not I didn't you're, not planning on illuminating. That sign. Are you yeah, or at least.

B

It wouldn't be neon, it may have a light that shows maybe a flood light. Okay, thank you now. Let me.

B

Let me show you: what's been marked for identification.

B

As exhibit one, what does that show? That's the bank bar that was taken last summer.

B

I'll ask you about all of those later. Should I just name this up here.

A

Yes and then, as a conclusion, we'll go ahead and accept this in the evidence. Okay, you can do.

A

Them all once mr schaefer, instead of here's, here's what's been more for exhibit two. What's that show.

C

That's also the big barn, so the first picture shows the other side. This is. This is actually.

C

The bank barn, the bank, you can see the right exactly. That's the other side right, correct all.

B

Right now, exhibit three photographs exhibit three. What's that show exhibit three is from the corner.

C

Of the manor house exhibit four: what's that show this is the interior lobby from the front door.

C

And it's it shows the foyer and then to the left. The picture is actually a.

C

A hand painted drawing a hand painting from uh mid 1900's of the property actually now is is.

B

Exhibit four show the property the way you found it? Yes, so now, you're in the rest of the.

B

House was also well kept. Is that correct very well kept, but it does require some.

B

Upgrading, yes, it does and are you are you currently in the process of upgrading? We are.

B

And were these photos taken by you or someone in your family.

C

Yes, and will they take it within the last six months they were taken.

C

End of last summer, do they fairly inaccurately depict the situations you've testified to yes,.

D

We will go ahead and accept all of the exhibits into evidence.

B

Now, let's talk about the operational details uh of the uh of the the.

B

uh Country in if, if this is approved, um who will will who will live on the property? So it's.

C

My mom and I will as well as my sister and uh her husband and family, okay and you're gonna.

B

You're gonna live there as your residents. Correct, yes, and are you also gonna, be part of the manager.

B

Managers of the uh of the country again, all of us all- six of us will be involved: yep, okay and the.

B

Other ones will commute there to help right. Yes, do you anticipate hiring any full-time employees or.

B

Will be run pretty much by the family run by the family, to the extent that we need some help with.

C

Maintaining the property or events that would be part-time, independent contractors, probably.

C

Okay, now will there be uh no well? This will be a will. This be a venue rental, only operation.

C

Yes, and what do you mean explain to the board, what that means to you or what that means, so we.

C

Are only making the facilities available, we are not going to be providing food or.

C

Additional services so for the the when, when a party would rent the facilities they get, the.

C

What the barn or the tent and the portion of the grounds um and then they they get they get. They.

B

Arrange for the catering, any alcohol music, any other vendors would be arranged by the customer.

B

Correct, yes, we they will handle all of the vendors that go along with their events. We will also be.

C

Providing a coordinator for every event, so there's somebody who can help with the planning and then.

C

Be dedicated on site, whether it's a family or a family member that'll be active. That coordinator.

C

For the event now, do you anticipate that uh a fair uh percentage of the customers will be wedding.

B

Events, yes, okay and, and you refer to a wedding coordinator- will be provided. What's that mean.

C

So that means that they'll will match a coordinator to the wedding party months in advance.

C

There's there'll be some prepare. Preparations to you know hear the vendors who are the vendors.

C

Coordinating getting everything lined up then, most importantly, that person will be on site for the.

C

Event that day, to help with navigate guests and move the through the day's schedule and coordinate.

C

Vendors as they come will that person likely be a member of your family. Yes, okay and.

B

You will you will have a process where you either have an approved list of vendors or a process to.

B

To vet the vendors before they're allowed to serve at your property. Correct, yes, correct! That's.

C

Important to us now in doing your market research, um you picked, you had to decide.

B

uh On a price point, did you not yes and what went into that calculation as far as.

B

Your your your planning, so we set our price point based on uh seeking to tap into a specific.

C

Upscale portion of the of the market again, our market will primarily be most likely from the.

C

Baltimore area somewhat from washington, and we we want to be a premier, a premier country in facility.

C

Option so with that price comes the additional like the the dedicated coordinator, which is you.

C

Know something that's not not widespread, but yeah. I was trying to try to attract a specific.

C

Segment of the well, you looked at I'm sure your market study involved looking at.

B

Looked at pricing from other venues right, yes, and you use those pricings to form yours, yes,.

B

Will will you provide tables and chairs for the events? Yes, we'll provide tables and shares.

C

And then, after that, it will be provided by the caterer that the the event party has.

C

Chosen so that would include linens and silverware and the food.

B

And there will be a small catering kitchen available in the manor house correct. We.

C

Would probably put it actually as part of the bar instructions? Okay, yeah, gotcha, okay,.

C

As close to the reception as possible,.

B

Now, if you have music or if the customer has music you'll have requirements that.

B

They stop the music at 10 p.m. Correct, yes, correct, and is it your understanding that.

B

Generally speaking, when the music stops, the party stops. Yes, that is what we.

C

In working through all this, we have consulted heavily with other wedding venue owners in our.

C

General larger northern maryland market and they all say the same thing when the music events.

C

Everybody's, been there all day, they're ready to go home, so you're prepared to say that.

B

By 11 o'clock it would pretty much be yes cleaned up in alpha there yeah all right, if necessary, will.

B

You have uh contractual employees that will help with the initial parking uh when people arrive. Yes,.

B

Now you do you plan on providing and uh your site plan shows so, but I'll just get. You confirmed.

B

That you're, you plan on uh putting in a uh a bathroom facility for this, for this use correct.

C

Yes, we do we're planning to uh it, would we're thinking it would require an additional septic.

C

Field and then to put a bath house with uh a few bathrooms closer to the reception. And that would.

B

Be a permanent type facility right, at least as of now it's possible. You would use uh some kind of a.

B

Trailer type situation- maybe maybe okay, um now you're gonna, be you and your mother.

B

And are gonna be living in the house right correct, so I assume one reason for that. Is you don't.

B

Want people coming in your house to go to the bathroom right right, yes um and another reason.

B

For that is that you're aware that the county has policies regarding how many events you can have.

B

If you don't have permanent facilities right, correct and so are you do you? You do plan on.

B

Having more than 12 events a year, correct, correct, we are um we're planning hoping for.

C

Somewhere in 30 to 60 events for our first year, maybe growing a little bit in the years falling.

B

Are you uh have you been made aware that this is the first step in a fairly uh long regulatory.

B

Review process, yes, and, and you heard mr dixon read out the comments from building permits and and.

B

Development review, etc. You're aware that you're going to have to go through those systems correct.

B

Yes, yeah and we yes and and you've consulted with ddc mr andy stein in advance to so that.

B

The plan we presented would looks like to us would work from a regulatory standpoint correct yes,.

B

Describe the the general area that that property is located in is that agricultural.

C

It is agricultural, it's really it's really special, so the property itself. The vein.

C

So it's 33 acres, but most of that is forest, uh so the the main livable portion is just a few.

C

Acres and like it's in a dell, it's in the you know: adele surrounded. You said: adele d-e-l-l, right, ell,.

C

Surrounded by by farmland, which is really exquisite and the properties you call it adele.

E

I'm I'm familiar with the word, but you know it it's it's sort of in a bulge. Yes,.

B

Now it has a driveway that enters from uh is that friday or mill, or I guess they call it.

B

Old bachmann valley there yeah and then it turns into friday mill. I think, but you of course, you're.

B

Aware of the driveway having having used it right and have you talked to the neighbor that owns the.

B

Property at the front we have yes, we have talked with them um because there's there's a house.

B

Right at the front of the driveway, correct, yeah right right, obama, valley room. We share the end of.

C

The driveway together, yes, yeah and you've, talked to that person and uh that person indicated they.

B

Were okay with your plans? Oh yeah, they're very excited and we've talked about um what we would.

C

Like to do to to help them along the way, including we'd like to provide them with some additional.

C

Plantings to provide some privacy, so we talked about some some things we can do there, but yes,.

B

Do you do you view your closest the the properties closest to the city of westminster into the.

B

Industrial park, north of the city as a benefit we do yeah. We really do um well our location, we're.

C

Five for seven minutes from downtown westminster, so we are both in very rural carroll, county and.

C

This gorgeous property, surrounded by farmland and then five to seven minutes from great food and.

C

Convenience but then we were like two minutes from this industrial park right by the airport.

B

Do you envision uh being a, would you would you be, would your facility be available to industries in.

B

The industrial park for retreats or uh or meetings yep we'd love to make it available to them.

B

All right bear with me one second.

B

That's all I have from this haul.

A

Okay, at this point, does anyone in the audience have any questions of ms hull's testimony.

A

And again, questions of her testimony. You have the opportunity for your own later.

A

Go ahead and go to the microphone and please state your name, address and occupation.

A

And spell for the record your last name and come closer to the microphone.

F

Good morning, michelle parrish p-a-r-r-I-s-h, michelle m-I-c-h-e-l-l-e.

F

My address is 969 begs road, I'm here, because my sister and I own the farmland that is around the.

F

I guess the industrial park side of the property um you mentioned the driveway, um that's also.

F

The shared access when we harvest that property you're, aware of that and nothing is changing with.

F

You're not doing anything to the driveway. That would create a situation where.

F

You talked about additional plantings, maybe for the neighbor you're not going to narrow the.

F

Driveway in any way, shape or form that combines and tractor trailers can't get through there.

C

In fact, we are as our understanding that the driveway would need to be widened.

F

Okay and I've seen some work done, but I just wanted to clarify for the record so.

F

Okay, thank you any other questions of ms hall's testimony.

A

G

I have a question miss.

G

Concerning the events you're planning to have over 60 a year currently.

G

The zoning administrator has limited to 12 events a year. That's not accurate. The zoning.

B

Administrator said made a comment that if you're going to have more than 12 events a year, you need.

B

To have permanent sanitation facilities, that's my biggest part, mr schaefer. I misread it, but I heard.

G

The comment from council about 12. um the question I have then, is about how many people would attend.

G

An event: what would be your maximum number max would be about. 170 is what we were 170 people.

H

A

Mr secker, mr snyder, mr simmons, uh one question.

A

It came up that that it's a 33-acre property, um mr smith, and his comments.

A

I'm not the mr dixon red is part of the file.

A

Please help me out I'm a little confused. Is this property in ag land preservation, a portion of it.

C

Is small small portions of it are and you can, if you see the drawing you'll, see that we've.

B

Shown them they are hard to see so so, okay, so I don't need to see the draw. My question is where.

A

The wedding venue will take place because it is not on preserved property, agriculturally.

A

Agriculturally preserved property, it is correct, it is not near and dear.

C

To the preserved property, the the driveway uh I heard the question from was parish um is that.

A

Wholly owned, is that part of the 33-acre property, or is that a right-of-way is? Is it.

C

Yes is part of the 33-acre property to the right of the driveway, or is that mr meyers's to the.

C

Right of the driveway is mr myers. Okay, very good. That's that's just wanted to get. We didn't see.

A

Property lines when we went out there and visited that's, why that's why I'm trying to get those.

C

No problem happy to answer any questions. Okay, very good, any other questions, mr snyder, are you.

I

No, I was just a little confused because I thought I looked at the plan, but the driveway was a common.

I

Right away into a certain way, so I think it used to be at some point way way back if you do, if you.

C

Look, but it's not it's not common anymore, so it is that strip is part of our property lines and.

C

Then we do share it with the neighbors right at the bottom. It looks like somebody has a railway.

J

Someone else has a right of way to utilize. That driveway is that.

C

It's probably the people at the end of our believe. It's the country.

B

Mr stein can address some of this when he haven't done this title, but I believe miss parrish.

B

If I, if I understood her correctly she's you're talking about the myers forum,.

K

That myers right exists off as you're driving.

K

Down the driveway, it's on the right on the left is farmland, okay, and I believe she was.

B

Stating that uh she believed and had used partial portions of that driveway for farm access.

B

Over the years, and that my guess is those farms enjoy an easement or right away over the fee.

B

Simple strip owned by orange, so so it is owned by it is underground. Yes and there's. There's.

J

Actually, reference in that right away. Okay, so it looks like it is recorded. Okay, very good. I just.

A

Ancient divisions of property and right of ways can cause issues, but this seems.

A

To have been legally identified, okay, any other questions board members of ms hull's.

A

Testimony, thank you very much. um Would you like to call another witness? Yes, thank you. Andy stein,.

B

You can stay here actually you're on the hook with me until this is over. Okay, no problem.

A

Mr stein uh want to remind you.

A

State your name address, occupation and skull for the record, your last name sure my name is.

L

Andrew stein, last name is spelled s-t-I-n-e. I'm a registered landscape architect with development.

L

Design consultants and our business address is 192 east main street in westminster, maryland.

B

Andy you've uh we're going to put your resume into evidence, but um you have you, have you testified.

B

In front of this board as an expert witness in the area of land design in the past, I have on.

L

Multiple occasions, I'd like to ask him that he'd be qui. If you want to see his resume first.

B

No, he he's he has testified in front of us before and you you want to enter his resume into that.

A

It's pretty impressive, I will I will go ahead and accept that into evidence and at the same time,.

A

uh We'll accept him as a expert uh witness in the fields that you will describe. Okay and I'm going.

B

To describe these fields as landscape design and site design- okay, very good um andy. Can you.

B

Generally explain the plan you have drawn and the rationale behind it. Yes, we met pretty early on.

L

This year, in 2021, with ashley and her family and discuss the plans for their proposed facility.

L

And we worked with them to develop a master plan that would provide the necessary parking for the.

L

Anticipated number of guests for that facility, and also we did some preliminary environmental work.

L

Which is typically required for board of zoning appeals plans to identify all the existing natural.

L

Resources on the site and make sure that any improvements that we propose respected those.

L

Now andy explain explain a little bit further. Why you to this board? Why you.

B

Did that that is? Did those environmental looks preliminarily because and I'll I'll suggest to.

B

You that it's because without those studies, you might present a plan to this board that you later.

B

Find out you there's no way you could do it right. That is correct. A lot of the environmental re.

L

There is a tributary uh to a stream on the back side of the property and in carroll county. The.

L

Water resource protection, easements and various other environmental easements essentially create.

L

A non-disturbance buffer, so we didn't want to come in and show any program that as soon as we went.

L

To the site plan process, we weren't permitted to build because of the need to protect the existing.

L

Waterway and all this costs time and money correct, it does, and uh this will be. I don't know how you.

B

Just described this but fair, this will be a fairly expensive process to get to meet the.

B

Regulations here correct, yes, it will be, and and if that barn can be uh rehabilitated, that will be a.

B

Good expense too correct. Yes, I'm not a structural engineer, but I know it's not inexpensive. Okay,.

B

um Describe the general area that this is located in is this: is this located in an agricultural zone.

L

It is located in an agricultural zone and, as ashley indicated in her testimony, it's a.

L

Very peaceful agricultural setting, the natural topography of the property, the being down.

L

In the dell awful bachmann valley, road lends it to the fact that, when you're on the site and you're.

L

Looking around you don't even realize that you're only a few minutes from downtown westminster and.

L

The adjacent industrial park is this: is this area fairly typical of a lot of the.

B

Development in the ag zone in carroll county, uh the proposed program is as far as the.

L

Reuse of a agricultural structure for a event uh facility like this, um it's a.

L

Something that we see happen in the county fairly regularly, and is that because simply put people.

B

Can't afford to continue these uses without some kind of income. It is. um Is this, in your opinion,.

B

Is this use appropriate at this location? It is appropriate at this location. You have a.

L

Perfect setting great setting for events only minutes from downtown minutes off of 140, and it's.

L

Located very close to a population center that has uh overnight accommodations for guests.

L

As opposed to, if we were thinking of a property on the northern end of the county,.

L

uh That wouldn't have accommodations and would put a lot more traffic on the roads to the north.

L

Or in of the rural back roads than this, which is uh really easily reached? Okay, now I'm going to ask.

B

You, the schultz, pritz question in your opinion, would the proposed use at this location have.

B

Adverse effects, above and beyond those adverse effects, inherently associated with such a use.

B

Regardless of its location in the zone, it would not okay and what's the basis.

B

For you saying that again, it's the fact that it's uh topographically, isolated.

L

From adjacent properties, so when you're on the adjacent roads, you can't even see the facility.

L

Being down in the dell like that, the activities there are going to be very easy to screen.

L

And, as I indicated, um it's very close to a lot of major roadways, um population, centers and.

L

uh Be very easy for people to reach has close accommodations and restaurants and doesn't.

L

Require a lot of traffic uh to go beyond the city area. Now uh you've advised your client ms hall,.

B

And family that this project has to go through uh additional review before it could actually start.

B

Operating correct, correct and that that involves those environmental uh codes and building codes.

B

And other things that have to get approved, correct, correct the full site development plan process.

B

And- and you you've also explained to miss hall and- and I have too that this 12 events a year.

B

Triggers a a whole new uh set of requirements, correct, yes, we'd have to percolation tests and.

L

Septic design through the carroll county, health department and and.

B

And they've indicated that they're willing to uh to go through that process.

B

Yes, because they want to have more than 12 events a year. Yes, that's all I have for mr stein.

A

Okay, does anyone in the audience have any questions? Mr stein's testimony ms.

A

Perish question relating to the parking I know some trees and some, I guess a ripping barrier.

F

Kind of thing is going to have to be adjusted for the parking lot. What means would you have.

F

Of protecting cars from if, if we're spraying or if we're harvesting and there's you know, dust and.

F

Debris and maybe some wind, while the parking lot is full. What what ways would you have to protect.

F

Cars and I'm not speaking because you know I I there's only so much you can do, but obviously, when.

F

My sister and I get a phone call from an attorney that you know: 12 bmws, have dust or spray on them.

F

That's going to present a concern for us. So what way would you have to protect clients or what way.

F

Would you propose to protect clients so that we're not impacted down the road? If that's a concern.

L

Well, the first thing I'd say is, I think, there's a right to farm. Yes, oh absolutely! No! No! I I.

F

Agree 100 with you that that it should be a non-issue. But um but I would say that the best.

L

Screen that we could propose would be some type of landscape screening that we could look at to.

L

Because that grows taller and fuller and is a better interceptor for any airborne dust.

L

Chemicals anything like that, that than any other item that we could provide. I would.

L

Say it also helps that this is down in adel um the even the parking is going to be below the.

L

Elevation of the horizon. um So if we when strong wind we're blowing through but yeah.

L

I'd say a landscape screen would probably be the best thing that we could propose.

L

And we could do something that could stay up, year-round and and reach a pretty good height.

M

Okay, thank you and miss perry that'll. Those issues should be addressed at the technical.

A

Review committee level, and also the planning commission, because they'll have to submit.

A

A site plan, and, and that would be a very appropriate time uh for for input on that and.

A

Mr stein is on notice that those type of things would or were recommended by the community. So.

F

Okay, just a question. Thank you appreciate it. That's fine! That's a perfectly.

A

Perfectly good question any other questions of mr stein's. Testimony.

A

I've got one quick question: the the parking will not be on.

A

The ag preservation portion of the property is that correct right. It will not. No, that is it's.

L

In the southwest corner and on the north side a bit and we made sure that we respected it.

L

And stayed out of it very, very good, okay board members, any questions of mr stein's testimony.

A

No very good. Thank you, mr stein. Thank you. Thank you. That concludes our presentation.

A

Okay, now anyone from the audience can go to the microphone and and give your own testimony. So if.

A

You'd like to do that, go to the microphone and state your name address occupation and spell.

A

For the record, your last name good morning, my name is mark blaxton b-l-a-c-k-s-t-e-n.

N

I'm a banker uh for m t bank and my wife tracy, is one of the owners of the adjoining property.

N

My father-in-law is john myers, who owns amazing farm. Excuse me, I'm a little hoarse this morning.

N

So one of the things um and appreciate you going through all this plan because you don't get all.

N

This when you see notices and postings, so it's really helpful to hear the full scope of what.

N

You're looking for so two primary things, I want to bring up one um one area that we wanted to.

N

Address that wasn't talked about is the noise. That is something that has been a significant impact in.

N

Our immediate area over the last several years and for those who don't know there are two existing.

N

Country inn wedding venues within about a two and a half mile radius of this proposed property.

N

And currently run several events throughout the year and despite the traffic that we've heard.

N

About and some other things, the noise tends to be the biggest hurdle that residents in the area deal.

N

With so I'm curious, um if there's any comment on that a little bit later, but that's a big area and.

D

I'd also present for this board one of the things that was recently highlighted by our sheriff.

N

Was the limited resources with regard to noise, ordinance, ordinances in our area and.

N

Specifically related to venues and events and the number of calls they get per year, so I hope.

N

Everybody's seen this and I'm happy to share this for the group and present it to evidence.

A

Oh, if your conclusion of your testimony go ahead and give that to mr dixon and he will.

A

Go ahead and label that and appreciate that we will accept that into evidence.

B

And and and what is that? It looks like a copy of a newspaper, article yeah newspaper clark, basically.

N

Talks about the care I mean the worries, we're gonna soon to be updated for residents. So I'm.

N

Not aware if it has actually been updated yeah, but it goes on to talk about how a lot of calls.

N

In the past year, or so have been putting a lot of um pressure on our law enforcement.

N

Because they're getting complaints from residents about excessive noise.

N

And most of those are properties that are agriculturally zoned.

N

And have a different amount of allowed uses, such as a wedding venue, in this case.

N

So that's question number one question number two was and I'm not. This isn't really foreign.

N

For questions right, this is more just me talking. This is this: is you're you're, providing testimony.

A

Yeah, this isn't jeopardy, you don't have to do it in the form of a person. The first part you do now.

N

The second one is, you know, I just want to impress upon this group that there is a heavy.

N

Concentration of these type of venues in our immediate area, I wish I had a map I could share.

N

I would have happily brought one, but within about two and a half miles, there are two other wedding.

N

Venues that are open and active and working in this specific area of carroll county, so the noise.

N

With those combined events over the weekend is even more amplified on occasions, and maybe some.

N

Of my family members are going to testify as well, but um there are occasions on a saturday at four.

N

O'clock, where you have two wedding venues going at the same time, and while it doesn't seem like it's.

N

A problem they bowl up into just one big loud noise, so adding a third one in a concentrated.

N

Area, I think, is something to be considered as well. I just kind of wanted to share that.

A

Anyone else from the uh audience have any questions of mr blackstone. No, we don't.

A

We don't okay board members, any questions of mr blackstone's testimony. I have a general question.

G

Mr black's notes uh it refers here in this uh evidence. You submitted that the county.

G

Noise ordinance will soon be updated. Has it in fact been updated, or is anybody aware of that.

A

Mr boyd is in the back of the room shaking his head: no, no any plans to update it anytime soon,.

A

So that's up to the commissioners is what mr boyd is saying.

A

Okay, I'm saying that I'm repeating that, because he's not near a microphone. Thank you. Thank you.

A

The noise ordinance is on the radar, however, there's no definite plans right, okay and.

A

That was mr wheat's comment. May I just point out that if, if that's the article I recall.

B

The sheriff in that article told the county commissioners, you know this is usually.

B

Something 90 of these 95 they most of them get worked out. You know we go out there and.

B

So there could be. That could be why the county commissioners have not felt.

B

A need to do to revise the ordinance at this point. Okay, any anything else, mr blackstone, while you're.

A

Up okay, thank you very good. Thank you. Anyone else: okay, I'm assuming you're mrs blackstone, correct.

J

Yes, okay, please go and state your name, your address occupation and spell for the record.

A

Your last name sure tracy blackstone, my husband mark um my address is 1084 biggs road blackstone.

M

N trace b-l-a-c-k-s-t-e-n t r, a c. I e a former school administrator.

M

Obviously, one of the things that my husband touched upon and that we're touching upon here.

M

With the article is that, although the noise issue with um we live very close to the royal.

M

House, which is a historic uh venue for weddings and, um of course, montague meadows as cited, is.

M

Within two and a half miles as well and basically, although the sheriff has indicated that um these.

M

Issues are resolved quickly. He doesn't mention that there they occur over and over and over again.

M

uh For the neighbors who surround this these areas and, unfortunately, for the venue owners.

M

You can't always control the dj for the drunken best man's speech.

M

Unfortunately, where we live, we have heard the best man's speech word for word,.

M

Sitting on our own patio and that's at least a quarter mile away from I'm speaking of the royal.

M

House, to be honest- and um you know celebration is a wonderful song for a wedding, perhaps but again.

M

We hear it over and over and over again, um we have in the past, tried to be and continue to do so. Try.

M

To be good neighbors with the wedding venue that I'm speaking of and we've had a number to contact.

M

And then, of course, as the wedding venue has changed hands several times uh in the past,.

M

Eight years um you know, go and try to contact who we need to to in a nice way to say, hey. You know.

M

We're trying to be good neighbors here, but we can hear you and we realize there is not in carroll.

M

County a good way to manage the noise issue, as indicated as your attorney here has indicated that.

M

Basically, the sheriff has said um because there's really no great way to handle it. The sheriff's.

M

Department does not have the 20 to 25 thousand dollars to buy a new decibel reader. um You know it.

M

Hasn't been updated as how do we handle the noise complaints of when we're placing wedding venues.

M

In the middle of agricultural and residential areas, unfortunately, the brunt of this comes on.

M

The neighbors who live in the bachmann valley, sullivan, lemon road area.

M

Again, over and over we're facing this same thing and again, if it's only 12 issues a year.

M

That's 12 saturdays. When our windows are vibrating and you know inside we can hear.

M

uh The noise and again that's a quarter mile away from that wedding venue where we are where we live.

M

So we we would like this to be taken into consideration. um You know in bakken valley this.

M

Again, if approved, this is the third wedding venue just right: smack dab in the middle.

M

Of our agricultural community- and I realize that that's the.

M

Intention of these business owners is not to cause issues for their neighbors and it is not to become.

M

A nuisance, but that is a very strong consideration that I would like presented. Thank you.

J

Okay, just stay there miss mister. I should have asked mark I'm sorry, but how far is begs road.

B

Where you live on banks road from this, uh this- uh maybe a third of a mile- a third of a mile.

M

Right, but also as far as for future uh purposes, when we own land around, I would not want to.

M

You know have a property that was, should we decide to sell it in the future to have something.

M

We have to consider future thoughts too. um You know my father lives.

M

You know a couple hundred yards, you mean if you were to in the future. If you were to develop your.

B

Property, you would be concerned about the effect of of that, oh, very, possibly, or even just uh as.

M

Far as to move to that to that location as well as not necessarily develop their perhaps but.

M

As I said, you know, my father lives a couple hundred yards from the location too, so that.

M

Is a consideration that we're we're all facing the noise, uh a bathroom issues, area.

A

Okay, any other questions of ms blackstone's testimony board members.

A

A

Did you, I was just saying hello to the neighbor okay.

A

Very good, thank you, ms blackston. Any other comments is that mr myers, behind the mask.

A

I believe it is mr myers, could you go ahead and state your name and address and occupation.

A

And spell for the record your last name, my name is john myers. I reside at 460 old, bachmann valley.

E

Road which is adjacent to these folks is properly they're wishing to get the variants on today.

E

I've farmed there all my life, which has nothing to do with this comment, but I have farmed all my life.

E

And presently of some of the concerns and the reason why I'm here today.

E

Is because several things first off, we use the lane the shipley lane to get our crops in and.

E

Out and do harvesting, and what have you and also in the future, if any time that property.

E

Would have a house built on it? They would also result. We have to to use that as well for their.

E

Entrance, that's one concern a second concern, even though these things sound, really good. In theory,.

E

And I've been around, as you can see by looking at me quite a while, and the bottom line is sometimes.

E

They don't work out very well I'll. Give you a quick example: we used to farm a lot of land and.

E

I don't mean that in a boastful sense, but we used to find a lot of land in carroll county.

E

Anyhow, we rented a farm up on uh an area of carroll county and of course, we were spraying.

E

And we do a lot of spraying with a helicopter as well as by.

E

A ground and anyhow when we sprayed this crop about three weeks later, I was issued.

E

A letter from an attorney saying our neighbor's horse died and they sued us for 25 000.

E

And I had to even though these things are good, I still have to defend myself and, as mr.

E

Shaffer knows, I don't mean be smart, attorneys are expensive and it's also time consuming.

E

I have to defend myself, we did, we went to court and we found out that the horse- this is true.

E

Completely true, of course, the horse died a day before the spring took place, so we didn't have.

E

To pay the 25 000, but we did have to pay a lot of attorney keys, so in turn sometimes.

E

It's just on theory, it sounds quite well, but it doesn't always work and when you're spraying.

E

Droplets will move and extremely long distance if the conditions are right and there's nothing. You.

E

Can do about it, you can say we'll spray when there's no wind, you can't do that and some.

E

Type, um insecticide herbicide, you don't want to spray when there's no wind, so my major concern is.

E

The right-of-way bars access and also our spraying and harvesting of crops, because I can certainly.

E

Imagine if my daughter was getting married and she was confronted with a tremendous amount of.

E

Dust or spray, I would be angry myself, so they're the major concerns I just want to protect that.

E

And I would hope that the minutes would show that today for the future, because that is a very.

E

Serious um objection that I have a concern that I have any questions from you folks, mr schaefer.

B

I don't have any, I don't know, mr marshmallow, it's good to see you again good to see you clark.

E

And the other thing I fail to mention, I realize that I'm protected by agricultural law.

E

But again I have to defend myself, it's costly and sometimes very confusing. Thank you. Wait a.

A

Minute, mr myers you're not off the hook yet board members. Any questions of mr myers is testimony.

A

One thing I'd like to to add is that we do have the right to farm law, both in.

A

As a state law and as a county ordinance and the one I'm assuming that this was prior to.

A

I can't remember where you did the right to farm ordinance. It's been over 20 years ago,.

A

um At that point, the reason for the right to farm ordinance is so that it goes.

A

It goes before a committee. That's based upon people that serve on the carroll county ag.

A

Commission before it goes into the court system, so there is an additional layer there before.

A

We do get the legal costs, but um I'm a farmer also- and I worry about those very same issues.

A

That, mr mr myers has brought up, and the the good thing is that you're here to make sure that.

A

The applicants are very aware of what can occur in the normal harvesting and planting of.

A

River crops, it's something about a spray machine in a field, and I understand- and god forbid, when.

E

You put a helicopter in the air, it becomes a lot more serious and um it's a real issue.

E

Trust me it's a real issue. Thank you. Thank you, mr myers. Anyone else have any testimony.

A

Miss perish sorry, um I just I one more thing about the noise and I know it's.

F

It's not in relation it's just such a deja vu. For me. I was in this exact hearing room when.

F

Folks bought the christian royal house and it was a family, several daughters and their mom and.

F

I sat and listened to the testimony and one of our neighbors spoke a lot about noise at asked.

F

A lot of questions and honestly I felt like she was overreacting. I didn't say anything at that.

F

Hearing I didn't ask any questions because it just seemed like a wedding venue. It's going to.

F

Be fine, it's not going to be a problem and boy do. I regret that because I have sat in my house.

F

With all of our windows closed from may until october, and I hear the djs and I'm not suggesting.

F

That is the owner of the properties that are have their finger on the volume, but the windows rattle.

F

um You know I I can hear the the shrieking and again that's whoever's controlling.

F

The entertainment, which isn't necessarily the owner and developer of a property.

F

um But I can tell you it um it's it's a frustration and it's not a frustration once.

F

A year or or five times a year, it's probably a dozen times from may.

F

Probably because it's a tent, that's, I think, that's part of the problem at the christian royal house.

F

Is that it's a tent so that the noise is not as controlled? If it were say the antrum up in.

F

Tawny, town, which is you know, an actual structure, um but uh again I I know I don't live currently.

F

Next to this property we own the farmland, um but I will tell you I I can't it's. The noise has.

F

Been a frustration- and I did not understand that, however, many years ago, when I sat in that back row,.

F

And listened to the attorney for the the family that bought the christian royal house, I really.

F

Felt like it was not going to be a problem, noise wasn't going to be an issue, and I have regretted.

F

That um over the last I don't know seven or eight years. However long they've been open, so I just you.

F

Know I'm sorry to say that I understand that this family enjoyed growing up in a nice quiet.

F

Farm area and- and I did too I appreciate that- um but it's it's been very eye-opening for me-.

F

Over the last seven or eight years, living on begs road with royer house on that side and.

F

Montague meadows behind us, so I really just wanted to it's just a statement.

A

Any questions of miss parrish's testimony, mr schaefer. No thank you for board members.

A

Thank you, mr miss parish. Okay,.

A

At this point, a presentation of testimony and evidence is now.

A

Closed and the summations are in order. Thank you, yeah. Thank you, mr chairman.

B

As you know, this is a conditional use case and we're governed by schultz, pritz.

B

Which, I think is directly relevant to the noise complaint, which I perceive to be the major concern.

B

Here, combined with the what, if somebody sues me, you know because of the because of my farming.

B

That's that's exactly the kind. First of all, I would note a couple specific things about.

B

The noise uh complains number one, they appear to be directed at the christian royal house.

B

But also at the potential for my client to cause the problem um number two.

B

There's no real houses around this property. These people live. You know near I'm not saying.

B

They couldn't hear it. Maybe I mean I live in the country heck. I I was on the golf course.

B

The other day, I could hear somebody talking at a house about 600 yards away on their deck, um but.

B

This is why we have shield speed prints. Noise is inherent to any country in event, facility.

B

It's part of the deal just like funeral homes.

B

Have increased traffic when popular people die.

B

uh So and that's exactly what schultz pritz said, it said you can't count as an adverse effect.

B

Noise, if it's inherent to the use, you have to show there's something special.

B

About this adverse effect, in this case- and I don't I mean with all due respect- I appreciate.

B

The concerns I I certainly do, um but there's been no showing that there's anything about.

B

This property that makes it exacerbates the uh the noise. In fact it's in a dell, they don't.

B

Live near, there's no houses overlooking it. um So it's it's not clearly, not the kind of the kind of.

B

Testimony nor the reason to to turn down a case like this, especially and and I'll jump to the.

B

The what if I get sued now, that's always a tough one for the lawyer to to come back.

B

The the what if um well, what if my people are total litigious. You know anti-farmers in fact.

B

My clients signed or were presented with, as required by the county's ordinance, the.

B

Farm notice, when they bought the property- and I went over this with them- I don't know if you're.

B

Familiar with it, if you've done any real estate transactions, you'll note that the the in carroll.

B

County, if you buy property in the ag zone, you are required to be given a one-page document.

B

They put it, they put it's in the code that says something like the following: you're buying land.

B

In an agricultural zone, get ready for some noise dust, odors and fumes from farming. Don't complain.

B

About it, you know this is being presented to you when you contract about a property.

B

My people number one were aware of that number two are very happy to be in agriculture.

B

And number three have had some experience dealing with the neighborly things that go on or sometimes.

B

Not so neighborly, but the neighborly things that go on when you're in an agricultural community.

B

um And so that what if is way too attenuated uh to to say well we're gonna just turn this down, then.

B

There might be a these, people could be outrageously, litigious.

B

Now, let's circle back, however, to the merits of the case, you've got a family operation.

B

That has bought a historic property in carroll county that is willing to invest a lot of money.

B

uh In it um to and and will be, the on-site operators, owners and managers, I mean.

B

I'm not saying that's required of a country and but I'm saying that's better in the scheme of.

B

Things than yeah I bought this farm and my company runs event facilities, and you know.

B

We're going to hire 12 people and we're going to you know we'll come up there every time. There's a.

B

Wedding, don't worry we'll do it. This is a a quite attractive application and, furthermore, it meets.

B

And furthers a lot of the public policy goals that are reflected in the zoning ordinance and.

B

All your other orders, it allows the the use and renovation of an old farm property in a way that.

B

Produces tax income brings people to the area and allows money to be spent. Renovating.

B

A property that otherwise might go, who knows who buys that and listen everybody that owns property.

B

And I've told my family and myself this for years.

B

You roll the roulette wheel and you get the bad neighbor.

B

You know it's it's possible. The only way to protect yourself is by 20 or 30.

B

000 acres and then you're still going to have border problems, but um uh so.

B

You you, and I know this board's been. You can't turn down applications, because what? If? What? If.

B

Somebody's a bad neighbor and by the way my people have made all the efforts they've been there for.

B

A little bit and they've made an effort to be cooperative and will continue to do so.

B

uh So, in summary, I think we clearly meet the dictates of the the code.

B

uh And clearly qualify for the approval and I want to say, look forward to. But.

B

I'll say, look forward to going through the regulatory process which is daunting, but which is.

B

Specifically designed to make sure that these kind of uses meet the the requirements that make them.

B

Manageable and good, so thank you very much.

A

Mr myers, you want to offer some summation comments. Yes, no! No! You you're you're in touch. One of you.

A

Are entitled to some asian comments? Thank you. um I understood what mr schafer's saying, intellectually.

E

I totally understand but number one: there is a house close to these property. It's my house and.

E

It's about 800 feet away and because again of my age, I'm not too concerned about the noise, because.

E

I probably won't be here longer not to listen to a whole heck of a lot more noise, but the bottom.

E

Line is what you're saying for you know. I know it's true. However, it doesn't negate these folks.

E

Are not going to they're my they're, our friends, actually a lot of people or any other neighbors.

E

They're, not the ones that are going to follow suit against me, when I'm spraying over my daughter's.

E

uh Property, it's going to be the people who are there. The patrons are going to be the ones who.

E

Are suing me not these books? My great does not. I don't have a break, I'm just having concerns.

E

And it doesn't negate any of those things it just doesn't happen. Thank you.

A

Thank you, mr myers, any any rebuttal, mr schaefer. Thank you.

A

Okay, the hearing and record of this case is now closed in accordance with.

A

The open meetings act of maryland the board will now consider the case board members.

A

Mr simmons, we'll start with you, you'll, usually defer, but we're going to start with you.

A

Well, thank you very much. This is a simple case. It really is and there's.

O

There's no opposition. There's no debate. um I think you're gonna do well. I certainly hope you do well.

O

um And I'm gonna vote in favor of your application. That's all I need to say well done. Mr caldwell.

G

uh First, I'd like to commend the applicant for uh restoring that property. It's a beautiful location.

G

uh I think that's definitely a labor of love not doing that.

G

Very costly one, but certainly worthwhile. Secondly, since you're going to be resident.

G

On the premises, I think there's going to be certain amount of local noise control.

G

In that situation, as opposed to one or a location, that's remotely managed, should I say.

G

I don't see any reason not to approve this application.

A

J

I recognize excuse me the concerns regarding the noise um and you know we have people living in.

J

The community that are now hearing the noise from the warrior house and to that end I think that the.

J

Family living on this property will mitigate some of that. I would agree with mr culp.

J

It does make me want to suggest um there was discussion. I believe that miss parish presented.

J

Saying that that ownership had changed several times, and I don't know whether that that means the.

J

Use or the noise on the property has progressively gotten worse depending on the ownership.

J

um So I would like to at least discuss the possibility of maybe it's limited to this family.

J

Or number of events I mean, I think I think it's a great great proposal, um perfect location. I think.

J

It I think it meets this schultz versus print standard. I'm concerned about 60 events a year.

O

Having alternatives, I'm looking for discussion, I mean you live in and I don't know if you can.

J

Proffer any statements you live in that general area. What are you experiencing.

J

Hearing loss; okay, I'm not sad.

O

It comes with my age. No saturday afternoons are not disturbing to me matter of fact. Most of the.

O

Noise is good noise, good fun, and I appreciate it. I do you know I do recognize. That topography is, is.

J

Shielding this- that's that's an enhancement for choosing this location. I just feel like because.

J

The concerns were brought by the neighbors that have had experience with other similar.

J

Venues that we at least deserves a discussion or consideration. We wouldn't be able to.

B

Do this with a limit on the you know, number of events, uh you know if that if that number was.

B

300 or something maybe, but you know, we're we're hoping to grow this to 70.

B

80, you know, depending on how the business goes, we want to be able to do business.

B

Because they've got they're, gonna have payments to make, um so I just wanted to make that comment.

A

Mr snyder, thank you. Thank you, mr chairman. um One thing the board deals with in all these cases.

I

Is oftentimes the.

I

Being respectful to a property owner's ability to be able to develop and do on their property.

I

What is a basic right, um obviously, within certain criteria and how that influences people who are.

I

Joining properties or community that joins that that live in that community and how the right of a.

I

Person to develop their property or to do on their property what they want to do and how that affects.

I

Their enjoyment of their property, and so there's always a house built next to you, you know it's.

I

Going to impact you in some way, maybe you don't get the sun, maybe your trees or flowers don't grow.

I

But again does that compromise the ability of a person to be able to build a house next door so.

I

You know looking at this as a as in respect to that. I do not see based on the testimony any known.

I

Issues that should impact this person's ability to develop this property. In this way, I think it's a.

I

Key, it's not conflict with the um with the master plan. um They have a lot of hoops to jump through.

I

Matter of fact, that road is very rocky and in l.a going forward, um so I think the interest.

I

Of this person's right or this person's ability to use their properties, they see fit, does not.

I

Pose an unreasonable impact to the neighbors or to the community. Therefore, the support.

A

Okay, mr chairman, I guess I get to go last. So what we're? What we're charged.

A

With, as the board of zoning appeals here this morning, is a request for.

A

A conditional use for a country in a banquet facility. This is not a principle permitted.

A

That's the reason: it's a conditional use in the ag zone and that's why we're here.

A

What we're charged with is whether this location of a country in a banquet facility.

A

Would result in adverse effects greater than elsewhere in the agricultural district and.

A

That's the schultz v prince and I don't see where it violates that it actually falls.

A

Into that, the topography of the location, I think, will mitigate some of the sound issues.

A

Unlike what was described between biggs road and the royer house,.

A

That biggs road is a direct line and it's only a couple hundred yards.

A

We heard about the right to farm ordinance, we've heard about uh who could possibly bring lawsuits.

A

um Unfortu, unfortunately, but fortunate for mr schaefer, we live in a litigious society and.

A

We can't guarantee that there wouldn't be any lawsuits, but the right to farm is the first step.

A

In avoiding the legal process.

A

I have a real problem with right-of-ways issues and but all of my concerns.

A

Were taken away as a result of the site plan and the the written right of ways.

A

Nothing is a gentleman's agreement, uh it's all in writing, so there shouldn't be any.

A

Issues with that definitely think there needs to be a 10 p.m, cut off on the music.

A

And again, schultz v prince. I think it meets all the standards there and uh when we made a.

A

Site visit, I made the comment that I thought this was a civil war area era uh structure.

A

And in fact it was built in 1861, I think, is what the testimony was. So with those points.

A

I I can see no reason for denying this.

A

Any additional comments board numbers. I want to comment. um I might want to suggest that the.

G

Applicant consider in making you know accepting reservations from clients to make them aware that.

G

They are in a agricultural district and subject to you, know dust noise, spraying so and so forth.

B

Certainly, and and my experience, which is, I have a little bit of it-.

B

Is that, if it works correctly quote include my clients.

B

Will coordinate with the neighboring farmers in the sense of we're having one.

B

Saturday night, not don't spray because we're having one saturday night but.

B

Those farmers are decent people most other people are decent people.

B

Thank you, and most farmers are not interested in gearing up their sprayers because they just found.

B

Out somebody's having an event saturday night, they're going to spray saturday night, if it.

B

Makes sense from a farming standpoint, they might even reschedule their spraying, they don't have to.

B

But they might even say you know they're doing that saturday night, I'm not going to spray saturday night I don't have to. I can do it, but yes, mr caldwell, that.

B

We will coordinate and and my clients who certainly are sensitive to that.

J

And I I'd like to say in response to that comment. I was impressed when mrs parrish.

J

Spoke first about you know the concern about. You know the neighbors, you know what what effect is.

J

Is our farming going to have on your guests? At these events, the myers and the blackstones.

J

You know effectively suggested the same thing. I was impressed at the consideration for guests at.

J

Your venue that was shown by the neighbors, so I would like to commend them for that, and that was.

J

You know played into my um reasoning of suggesting that maybe we should you know, address some of the.

J

Concerns that they issued because they were showing such great respect at that point, so.

J

It seems to me that I was the only one that you know had any concerns or potentially about the.

J

Number of events, I understand that your business model doesn't work. If it's you know any less than.

J

What you're proposing so I understand- and I respect that and I appreciate the clarification on.

J

That and I think it should be a 10 o'clock cut off, but otherwise I'm and then that needs to be in our.

A

Approval motion, because if we don't doesn't matter what the testimony was.

A

Then there's no enforcement mechanism.

A

I'm absolutely ready, uh in the matter of case number 668 before the board of zoning appeals.

G

It is so moved that the board approved the conditional use request with the limit of.

G

Music until 10 pm, okay, do I have a second a second.

A

Okay, it's been moving. Second, is there any further discussion on the motion.

A

Seeing none all those in favor, I all opposed no motion carries our oral decision will become.

A

Final upon a written decision which will be issued within 30 days unless otherwise extended.

A

By this board, the board's decision may be appealed by filing a petition for judicial.

A

Review for the clerk of the circuit court for carroll county, in accordance with the provisions.

A

Of chapter 200 title vii of the maryland rules and procedure, the appeal must be filed within 30.

A

Days of the date of the board's written decision, thank you very much. This hearing is adjourned.

A

Recall the board is earning appeals back to order and uh our 11 o'clock.

A

Agenda item is case number six. Three, six seven before we get started, there's a sign up sheet.

A

On the side of the clipboard and the table, um if you haven't already signed in please make.

A

Sure you sign in before the end of the hearing, that'll be part of the public record um with that.

A

Jim, would you like to go ahead and introduce the file absolutely.

P

Absolutely um so uh calling the case um 6367 um today, wednesday january 5th, 2022.

P

This is a request for conditional use for a commercial kennel in the ag district at 5718.

P

Emory road um in the file, we have a notice of public hearing that was advertised in the.

P

Carroll county times on december 6 2021, um the notice was also posted on the county's website.

P

uh Notice of a public hearing posted by scott robinson zoning inspector on november 30th, 2021.

P

Also on the file is a letter to joe vance from laura matthias regarding the site plan.

P

um A letter from dawn kennedy, jo vance, a memo from abigail rogers of the planning department to joe.

P

Vance a letter from linda eisenberg um to the bza and a letter from tom harris to joe vance as well.

P

As letters from jboy, sam newell, janet o'mara and jp smith, to um to joe vance, are all in the file.

P

I move that the file be entered into evidence.

A

All those in favor of the motion to enter the following evidence.

A

We will go ahead and enter the file on the evidence.

A

Mr allman, could you go ahead and pass the fall to uh yes, mr simmons? Okay, let me let me explain the.

A

Process that we're going to use now in the hearing, because it appears that several people were in the.

A

Audience today that have never been through this process. Mr lazariaga appears to be the counsel for.

A

The applicant he will have the opportunity to make his opening statements and then go ahead and call.

A

Witnesses the witnesses uh then, will be able to be cross-examined of their testimony by anyone in the.

A

Audience and then by this board at that point, uh when mr lazariaga has extinguished all of his.

A

All of the people that he wants to call us witnesses, then anyone from the audience.

A

Can go to the microphone and they can give their own testimony. So, after the testimony.

A

Is given by by the applicant the only question you're you're supposed to ask questions only of.

A

Their testimony you'll have the opportunity for your own testimony later in the process.

A

So with that, if you're going to testify today, could you please stand and raise your right hand.

A

Okay, do you swear or firm, under the penalties of perjury, that the testimony you're about to.

A

Give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing, but the truth very good. You can be seated. Mr.

A

Lazariago opening comments. uh Thank you, mr chair, good morning, members of the board. Thank you for.

Q

Your time today, I will do my best to be brief, yet complete. We are going to present a case.

Q

For a conditional use for a commercial kennel, as defined in the code, we will expect to hear.

Q

Testimony most directly from my client to my right, your left miss lauren shafer. She is the applicant.

Q

We'll also have expert testimony in the form of mr podolac seated behind me in the audience.

Q

As far as the planning and distance requirements necessary to meet the conditional use criteria,.

Q

And I think at the conclusion of the evidence presented in any opposition that we might face.

Q

You'll find that not only do we meet or exceed all of the conditions associated with.

Q

The use but that there is no adverse impact of the use at this location above and beyond.

Q

That anywhere else in the zone, and we will ask you to approve the use as apply for.

A

Okay, you want to call your first witness. I would thank you, mr bail.

Q

I'm going to call miss lauren schaefer, mrs lauren schaefer's presence, my right.

A

Ms schaefer, could you please state your name address and occupation and spell for the record.

A

Your last name- yes um lauren, nicole schafer, my address is 5718 emory road upperco, maryland.

R

Two one one: five, five um shaffer spell s h a I worked in carroll, hospital, labor and delivery.

R

Until last january, and then I stayed home with a baby and I pursued this- is a new business.

A

Okay, you can proceed. Thank you, um ms schaefer. Can you describe uh for the board your educational.

Q

Background that led to your prior employment. um Yes, so I attended north carol high school and then.

R

Went to career and tech to receive my cna, then I started working at carroll hospital center and.

R

Was promoted through different departments there until I ended up becoming an l d, surgical tech.

R

And I worked there for approximately a little over 10 years before this previous january. Okay and you.

Q

Still have the option to return to that employment, if you elect, is that correct? Yes, okay, and can you.

Q

Describe briefly for the board, what started your interest in dogs and specifically breeding dogs? So.

R

I always loved animals. My dad raised me and never had time for them, so I've always been keeping my.

R

Eye on them, that was the first thing that I wanted um and then, as we did, get dogs through the years.

R

I discovered health problems with them, um and so I just started inquiring more and researching more.

R

And then I was reaching out to different people from facebook and I made some really.

R

Wonderful connections in georgia and down in north carolina and through that it's networked farther.

R

And really discovered good breeding practices versus bad. What you want to do with a dog before.

R

You choose to breed them: health testing, pedigrees and it's kind of expanded from there and then I.

R

Wanted to have a dog of our own like that, but then realized we tried to get dogs around us.

R

And I was misled, they did not have all of those things. So that's where I saw that there was a.

R

Need for dogs where this standard is followed for breeding, and my mentors offered to help me.

R

And guide me through how to do that. Okay- and uh you did mention earlier that you.

Q

Graduated from north carol high school, how long have you lived in an area? I've lived here for.

R

32 years, uh actually off of emory road, the whole time my dad lives on winterberry court.

Q

Okay, and how long have you lived, is your current location, six and a half years and you're married.

Q

Your husband's here correct with your youngest yes, and do you have any other children? Yes, I.

R

Have two other boys: their ages are eight and seven. They attend san diego elementary.

Q

Thank you. Okay, so we've discussed um amongst ourselves the county code defines a kennel fairly.

Q

Broadly, it includes the possibility of boarding dogs, overnight training, dogs and breeding dogs.

Q

Can you describe which, if any of those activities you want to do at this location,.

R

So I only want to breed my own dogs, I called, and the county code said two litters or more so that.

R

Was when I decided that I needed to pursue this farther, I wanted to have everything done correctly.

R

All the steps before I started this business and knew that I could really run it and do it.

R

And so I do plan on having more than two litters um and then also the county code. The three dogs.

R

I thought that we would later on expand, but it will only be for my own dogs because I don't want.

R

To introduce any outside parasites, infections, I'm actually really cautious, because, as you get.

R

Into this, it's a very large investment when you're buying these dogs with high pedigrees from germany.

R

So if anything, it's most risk to introduce anybody from the outside to my dogs.

Q

So, to be clear to the board, what you're asking of it do you have any intentions of.

Q

Either accepting or entertaining the idea of boarding anyone else's dog, no.

Q

Q

Given given the opportunity to proceed with your business, is there a typical day-to-day operation.

Q

Of what your proposed business would look like um so typically, I start with my family first, my.

R

Children go to san diego. Doesn't bus doesn't come till around 8 40 50., so it's getting them ready.

R

And up and then, while they're getting ready, I do like the dogs out around eight. um They go down.

R

To our field, we've chosen not to kennel our dogs, that's something that when I looked more into this.

R

I thought back, everybody has their dogs kenneled on concrete and I didn't like the idea of it. So.

R

They go down to the field they spend about an hour down there, while I'm getting the kids onto the bus.

R

I come back, they come back, they eat breakfast for their first meal of the day. German shepherds are.

R

Known for flipping their stomachs, like other large breeds, so they stay in for a minimum of.

R

Two hours after they eat and usually they're sleeping during that, so we call it nap time.

R

Then they go back out, they play for an hour or so, and then we do the same thing for midday meal and.

R

They go back in for about those two hours and then they go back out in the afternoon now that it's.

R

Getting dark so early they're coming in earlier and then we're just going back out there and doing.

R

Occasional potty breaks for ones that want to go out. It's just a one-on-one thing, though,.

R

And then, during the summer time they would go out for a third time to play around for.

R

An hour or so before they came back in, but we bring everybody up before dark more so for the.

R

Dog's sake and for the neighbors they could sustain injuries from running into each other.

R

With large weeds, you really have to protect their hips and elbows.

R

Because, even though I get them certified, of course, if they're injured, that would end their.

R

Breeding career and I would have to find a home for them that can then take care of them and then.

R

Of course sustain the medical calls for the rest of their lives, so you have to forgive me. I don't.

Q

Think I've done a good enough job of framing your business. You mentioned german shepherds. Why is it.

Q

That you're, talking about those specifically um so german shepherds, are the breed that I fell in.

R

Love with my uncle had them as I was growing up and then my brother-in-law. We had a lab, but it.

R

Just wasn't the same so when we decided that we really wanted to get a good dog and we had the.

R

Money, you know we went for a german shepherd. I love their loyalty, just their eye contact. How.

R

Willing they are to please, of course, through this journey, though I found that there is good breeding.

R

Of german shepherds and bad breeding so that my knowledge of their loyalty and intelligence has.

R

Only increased, as I found out what a true german shepherd that was bred correctly, is possible.

Q

So is it fair to say unless there was some sort of drastic change to your business plan.

D

You want to breed exclusively german shepherds. Yes, and you've talked about the schedule that you.

Q

Think would take place day to day. Obviously, you've also testified that that's already.

Q

In place, so you currently have not had a litter of puppies from one of your dogs. Is that correct.

F

Correct so there's presently um a business model. That's in place that you've implemented to get a.

Q

Cash infusion and get your feet on the ground and get things running yeah. Can you describe.

Q

To the board, what it is, how did you do that, and, and that led to the schedule that you just.

Q

Described how did they look at all? How did you get the puppies that you just described the schedule.

Q

For okay, um so none of my dogs have had their own winter yet and through one of my mentors in.

R

North carolina, she imports dogs directly from germany, which is how I got my older females.

R

But by chance she had to go to florida to take care of a sick, family member, and I didn't have.

R

Any puppies- and she said this- would be good to get your feet on the ground and to learn.

R

How to sell them to work out all the kinks in your contracts and to practice everything that you've.

R

Been so I ended up taking her imported litter from germany. I met her at the airport at dulles.

R

And I have them with their passports and have been starting to celebrate.

R

So, that's not what you would expect to be the business model moving forward.

R

No, we really just did that, because we had spent so much on the dogs and the area to take care of them.

R

That we were kind of just at a standstill and we weren't making any money back.

R

And we also had started a facebook and a website and really wanted to create traffic. And we were.

R

Kind of just sitting there going in the negatives, so I thought it would be a good experience and.

R

She said if I had any issues, she of course would take them back, so it seemed like the best option.

R

To go ahead and try and I had a safety net there if I couldn't sell them, and you also testified.

Q

Earlier you're aware that only if you're going to sell more than two liters of dogs per year.

Q

Do you require business, owning approval and a license through the humane society? Correct? Yes,.

Q

And you have not done more than two correct yeah um so shifting to what you expect through regular.

Q

Business model would be assuming you get up off the ground. uh What you describe would that be.

Q

Year-Round, it would be year-round it's really up to mother nature, though a lot of people will.

R

Call and ask me to predict when I'm going to have my next litter. I really have no control.

R

Over that, it is all up to mother nature if she does go into heat. If she has bred successfully.

R

The other uphill battle I have is, I do not keep any of my own sires. I use sires that are traveling.

R

Back and forth between germany, because they're actively competing and being titled over there.

R

And to be considered in german shepherd world over in germany, you cannot just be over in.

R

America competing because they don't view our shoes to have the same standards as theirs.

R

So I always progesterone test and my girls will travel to the stud. So of course my chances go way.

R

Down because of that, it's not completely natural that they're just living together and nature's.

R

Completely taking its course, I have to have it down to the day that we travel and come back.

Q

And how many uh heat cycles does a healthy adult? Female german shepherd have created the average.

R

Should be two and under the guidelines and the accepted practice within the industry.

Q

What's the acceptance acceptable rate at which a dog can safely breed and be healthy.

R

So it's always recommended that they see the vet first when they go into heat, they go over them.

R

And give you their opinion on whether she should be bred or not. Some people do every other cycle.

R

Other people do every two and then skip one, but the first guideline is: what really is the decision.

R

Maker, if the vet says that they're okay, but you would never breathe back to back to back to back.

R

Everybody needs time off and at what ages is it considered safe for a german shepherd to do that.

R

So it can be younger, but because my girls are being titled and they have to be shown with.

R

The sg rating are better in germany. They don't get started breeding until they're after two to.

R

Two and a half, then, if they are breeding on that cycle, most of the time they will be retired when.

R

They are about five. Now I do have one female that was only bred once and she is four so.

R

She would be able to breed a little bit longer, also depending if the vet says she's healthy.

R

Each time because she hasn't had many litters, so it's more so about how many litters they have.

R

But the big age difference with most breeders is they breed them as soon as they're, physically.

R

Able to but I'm looking to meet the german standards, so the dog has to have temperament.

R

Testing breed survey, hips and elbows must be done, they must receive a working title and they must be.

R

Shown until they receive their sg rating or better, I personally want them to receive their b rating.

R

Or better, can you describe for not only me, but perhaps members of the board, with the rating scale.

Q

What's the range which of those is better and what are the different standards um so anything.

R

Under an sg, germany will not give you breeding rights for your dog. Sg is very good. V is excellent.

R

And a va is excellent select and you can only receive that at the international secret shelf.

Q

Okay uh and that's your ambition for any of your dogs, that you intend to keep correct now, moving.

N

Back to the day-to-day business side of what you described earlier, do you intend to have any.

Q

Employees, I do not now what about veterinary care for puppies? Is that something that has to happen.

Q

On site, yes, I could travel, but I found a wonderful mobile vet and he would come out. He said.

R

Approximately, when they're six weeks old to do their health check and to give their first vaccine.

R

Of course, as long as they're healthy, if not you would be on call, and I would be.

R

Able to have him come back. I also use a reproduction specialist for my females.

R

But that is down in hunt valley, so I also would be able to use them. If I.

R

Had an emergency with a puppy, so it will not always be a traveling vet. Okay and.

Q

Assuming everything is going to plan, do your puppies require more than one visit from a.

Q

Veterinarian before they reach an age in which you could sell them, no, they did not. You would be.

R

Able to give them that health certificate and their first vaccine at the same time.

R

So absent any extraordinary circumstances. It's one mobile that visit her leader. Yes,.

Q

So if you don't have any employees who's doing all the work I am and right now I'm getting.

R

Started my husband's being a big asset to me because of the little one back there. He does not.

R

Like to be set down, so I plan to do it all myself, though, um but he's there as my backup anything.

R

That I need he's able to help me do so in what you expect to be your business model and the one.

Q

That you've temporarily fashioned right now. Is it typical for you to have any customer or potential.

Q

Purchaser of a dog come to your property, yes, and when would that happen.

R

It's by appointment only they have to call. I do a phone interview with them from my mentors.

R

I've got a list of questions that I kind of slide into the conversation as I'm asking them. What are.

R

Your preferences, what do you want from the dog um and then they have to pass that off if they don't.

R

I kind of give them a reason why german shepherd might be too much for them and quickly. You know.

R

Try to just deter the conversation or maybe say another breeder would be the best one for you.

R

If it does seem like it's going to work, then I discuss having a zoo meeting so that they can see.

R

The puppies in person without being in person, but a lot of people really want to see videos of them.

R

Another thing that I found really successful is with these imported puppies. We decided to go.

R

Ahead and get videos of them completely moving. I thought of that, because when you're getting a dog.

R

From germany my mentors have taught me, you don't just want a picture of them, you don't even want.

R

Just a quick video of them, you want to see all of their movement and how they sit, and I thought well.

R

Why wouldn't I do the same thing for my customers? It would be another thing that will set me apart.

R

From other breeders that aren't following the same and it really it's really worked so when people.

R

Call I can tell them, I have them all labeled, here's the puppy you'll be able to see a video.

R

Tell me what else you think of her, um so a lot of people already have a puppy in mind just through.

R

That first video process of them watching it on my website and then we go next step- is to the zoo.

R

Okay, so uh I led with a poor question then, because that led the board to believe that.

Q

Folks are coming to your property at some point, but I haven't gotten you there yet.

Q

So at what point in the potential purchase of a dog, would a customer ever come to your.

Q

House physically, um so if we've talked back and forth, I know that they're committed.

R

They're serious about a puppy we've confirmed that they are able to pay how they're going to pay.

R

I do welcome them to come out because I think it's really important that they see the puppy. I also.

R

Really want them to see how I care for the puppies, because I think that's a very important part.

R

Then they do we schedule a visit and at that time is when I give them my address. It's not publicly.

R

Listed for people to just drive by when they want that's, not fair to my neighbors to my children or.

R

Even to my dogs- and I don't want that- so we then set up appointment- I give them specific directions.

R

My address and stay by my phone and direct them to call me if they have any issues coming back.

Q

And what is the earliest age of a puppy at which you will entertain a visit from a.

Q

Prospective customer um the very first visit that I would entertain would be six weeks.

Q

And at what point are you permitted to sell the puppy and give it to the.

Q

New owner, I wouldn't release a puppy until it was over eight weeks. Okay,.

Q

All right so um you've described the process of coordinating an actual site visit. Is your location.

Q

Open in any sense, for somebody to just drive up or walk in and see or talk to you about your dogs, no.

Q

So if you had to speculate, do you expect the average number of.

Q

Cars per day coming to your location, to be anything of substance, no.

Q

So as it relates to the puppies, there would really only be traffic generated.

Q

Six weeks following a successful litter at the first opportunity, is that right, yeah, okay,.

Q

And then, if puppies are ready to go to the ultimate uh owners at eight weeks,.

Q

Between six and eight weeks, you're not going to accommodate.

Q

Any more visits than the initial one, and when to pick up, are you no okay and.

Q

For times when you've uh arranged for somebody to be at your property visiting or picking up.

Q

Their dog do you have adequate parking? Yes, and do you um well, you already answered that so.

Q

You talked a little bit about the um the goal for your business and and the type.

Q

Of dog that you want to be able to put out into the marketplace, do you believe there's a demand.

Q

For the type of service and breed that you want to provide to carol in the neighborhood counties,.

R

I do do extensive research because I do not want to be actively competing against someone.

R

I looked and searched through many many pedigrees. Of course lots of readers will put on there. They.

R

Have championship bloodlines, but I've come to discover through many pedigree searches.

R

That that bloodline is extensively further back and they're, not titling showing and getting that.

R

Breed survey, like I talked about the german standards, are a lot of breeders say that they.

R

Come from that bloodline, but then they choose not to do it with their current generation. I've also.

R

Made a wonderful friend in carroll county, but she likes the american line of german.

R

Shepherds, but we still discuss back and forth a lot, even though we have different views.

R

And we both have said just how important it is to have temperament testing on a dog before.

R

You choose to breed it, because that's really one of the main reasons why german shepherds.

R

Have such a bad reputation here is many breeders do not take that step.

R

Before they choose to breed their dog along with hips and elbows, a lot of people discuss it, but.

R

They do not actually have their certificates to go along with it and various other health testing and.

Q

With the temporary business model you used with the imported puppies, have you seen a demand.

Q

For the dogs, yes, I've had people driving three and four hours once they finally committed and.

R

Selected a puppy to come pick this puppy up from us. I received numerous feedback from how.

R

Excited they are how friends and family you know saw they come with a passport.

R

Saw a passport and can't believe that they were able to really get a german imported.

R

Dog registered with germany, so I do feel like I have the demand. I was kind of surprised. I'm.

R

Very timid and anxious, so I was sure that I was going to be sending some of these puppies back.

R

I just I wouldn't take the risk if I didn't know that I had a place for them to go back.

R

And then before I knew it, all 10 were gone and I was telling people. I don't have anything available.

R

um I'll have to reach back out to you and let you know when I'm expecting a letter and have.

R

People taking you up on that, do they want to hear back from you or is there a waiting list.

R

That sounds kind I haven't started an official waiting list. I believe you should confirm the.

R

Dog's pregnancy before you do that waiting list and people should really get to pick the mom.

R

Based on her personality, because my mom's all offer something different.

R

So I have told people I will reach out I'll make an announcement once I confirm her pregnancy.

R

With ultrasound, I will go ahead and open up that waiting list. You can pick male or female.

R

If you're the first four people on my list and then after that, it would be what I have.

R

Or you can opt to wait for another letter and you would be higher on the list for the next letter.

R

But I will not start an official waiting list until I have a confirmed pregnancy and I've.

R

Actually had people call me back just to make sure they haven't missed the announcement. Okay,.

Q

Obviously you wouldn't be here if the answer to this question was no, but do you think that your.

Q

Property is suited for the proposed use you're requesting today. Yes, I do, can you describe for the.

Q

Board what, if any, improvements that you and your husband have made to support the proposed business.

Q

Model, yes, so we had a fenced in pasture. We had some goats and we had a mini cow for a little.

R

Over a year during the pandemic- and it was a lot of fun- she ended up having a baby calf, but then.

R

When I decided to start this business, I wanted to use that pasture. I wanted to see the dogs be.

R

Able to run around, like I told you before, I don't really like the idea of them just being in kennels.

R

But we've also had to make a lot of improvements because it's fun for them to run around and play.

R

But especially females, they do not always get along and see eye to eye, so we needed somewhere.

R

To put one of them, if we're down there playing with them- and there is a occurrence, you know.

R

Somebody's not getting along or not being nice to be able to put them there, so that.

R

We can get all the other dogs back up to their kettle and then bring that dolls up by itself.

R

Because my children do run around my property and also with me, I'm a smaller person, so I want to.

R

Always be able to maintain control over my dogs, so we have them set up there when it's nice out.

R

We always separate them to eat so that we know exactly what everybody's getting. What supplements.

R

They're, getting some of them can stay down there and eat, but then they come back up to their kennel.

R

And then we rotate through our house two girls at a time, it's kind of like horses, it's based.

R

On personality and who's the alpha and who is not- and that's how I kind of rotate and they're.

R

Able to stay in the house with us, but it would be too much to let them all stay in and expect there.

R

Not to be any quarrel or even with my children, it would be a lot of commotion in the house.

R

So we try to keep everything nicely scheduled and be able to predict how it's going to go.

Q

Let me start with the pasture you described. I've got a couple of photos, I'm going to show.

Q

You that I've marked as exhibits one through five um does the do. These photos show the boundaries of.

Q

The pasture you were just describing yes, okay and exhibit one specifically. There is a stake.

Q

In the foreground of the property, is that the best of your knowledge, your property line? Yes,.

Q

Okay and then exhibit two is that the same fence just looking up the other direction? Yes, all right.

Q

And then three four and five also show boundaries of that same pasture. Is that right? Yes,.

Q

And is there to your knowledge, can you even see your closest neighbor in any of these photos? No.

Q

Mr chairman, for admission of exhibits, okay, we will accept those in the evidence. um Mr.

A

Allman um you want to go ahead and document those one through five applicants exhibits absolutely.

A

They're marked on the back: are they marking yeah.

A

Q

Now, let's talk about a couple other areas on the property.

Q

I'm going to show you what I'm going to mark.

Q

And this photo shows the edge of the back of a better turn. The parking area and driveway.

Q

Under your property is that right, yeah and there's three structures in this particular.

Q

Picture correct: yes, all right! The one in the middle, uh I'm gonna put a red x on the roof.

Q

Is there anything associated with that structure that you would plan to use for this business model.

R

Yes, uh I would like to have that set up at the tunnel.

R

Where the dogs sleep, when they're not in the home with us, most importantly, that's where they.

R

Go to eat when they're all separated and I would keep their dietary supplement supplies out there.

Q

And there wouldn't be any young puppies in that structure at any point in time there would not.

Q

And is it currently set up to accommodate one or more dogs? Yes, it is. Can you describe what.

Q

uh Alterations or anything to that structure that has been made.

R

Yes, so we put in an insulated garage door, we put in a new door with windows.

R

Then we have completely insulated it and covered all of the walls in or closed them in we've also.

R

Sealed the bottom, with a special waterproofing tape and then painted an epoxy over the floors for.

R

Easy cleanup and then there's individual kennels in there um and also like a little work bench with.

R

Cabinetry is for things and a water cooler, I'm sorry for their water and exhibit seven. Is that.

Q

The only door to access that structure- um yes, the only one you can go on the garage door- has to be.

R

Open from the inside and there's an electronic keypad on that is that for added security.

Q

Yes, and then exhibit eight is that the interior of the structure you just described yeah mr sheridan.

Q

Okay, we will accept those into evidence.

D

Q

A little bit here does that show the interior of the pasture you described at exhibits.

R

Yes, all right and what is this fence structure here? So those are two separate kennels.

R

Their main purpose is, if I had to separate two girls that were not getting along and another.

R

Essential purpose is, I cannot, leave water out for them, because raccoons or other small animals could.

R

Get into it and that's the number one introduction other than people matter for them to get parasites.

R

So I always keep their water locked up when they're not actively in there. Okay and there's.

Q

A structure behind or inside the fence: what's that? Yes, so that was a running barn we had with.

R

A little side pack room, um we did, we have almost like when you walk into a commercial freezer.

R

We put that over the opening of the running barn for even when we had the cows and goats so that.

R

Is up and then on the other side, we had sealed that up and painted that with epoxy and put a.

R

Doggie door in too for the same reason somewhere they could go inside quickly if they needed to.

R

And to get out of the weather or anything it might be, since we weren't using that space.

R

Because it's behind the kennel and then I want to show you exhibit 10.

Q

Does this space show the interior of the basement in your residence? Yes, and I know it doesn't show.

Q

All of it, but is that the area where you expect the litters of puppies to actually reside until.

Q

They're old enough to be outside, um so we have another picture, it's actually the whelping rim.

R

And it's completely dark kind of like a cave with no lights, mm-hmm.

R

So that we can clean up any messes, but that would be where we actually want mom to love the puppies.

R

I have a welding box that can be set up and broken down, so we would have that set up for her.

R

Initially and then we'd break it down as the puppies get older and they're able to get around.

R

Better, that would be the first room that we would use, because if we can control the lighting in.

R

There so for the newborn puppy's eyes, they can be exposed to light within a certain amount of time.

R

It can cause damage same thing with loud noises, so we've kind of designed that to be like a cave.

R

And then the outside area of the other picture he showed you.

R

Is where I would be able to keep all of my supplies? The puppies would be able to run.

R

Around and play with us you'll see that we used a kennel panel to keep the dogs.

R

Away from any structures in our basement that we don't want them to have access to, but that I can.

R

Still get back there and use the countertop and cabinet space and then, with the imported puppies.

R

uh Because they were, they can't be imported from germany until they're 10 weeks.

R

We went ahead and started crate training them right away to be able to sell them. That way,.

R

And also for each of us they're old enough, so we had them itch individually in their crates.

R

Same thing, so I know what they're eating if one needs a medication and the other one doesn't.

R

So we ended up using this area just because it was closer to our utility sink and we don't have the.

R

Same concerns like we do with younger puppies, where we want them to be in a dark quiet area.

Q

Mr chairman offers 10 11 in there and we'll go ahead and accept those into evidence.

Q

And a few more photos.

Q

Exhibit 12 does that show the gate onto your uh part of the property where you live, because your.

Q

Property goes all the way out to the road. Does this show how to get into where you reside and.

Q

Where the business would be yes, okay and the green gate, that's there. How does that open and close.

R

We have a garage, remote controller that we use, and it also has a keypad with select hose. I'm going.

Q

To show you exhibit 13. is that a copy of excuse me a photo of the keypad. That's there for either.

Q

And anytime, that you aren't expecting their package or a visitor or the board.

Q

For a site visit is that kept closed. Yes, I move for admission of exhibits, 12 and 13.

A

And we will accept those into evidence.

Q

All right, mrs schaefer.

S

How will your proposed business deal with dog waste? um We pick up.

R

And bag and remove all waste- and you place it in residential trash hauling.

Q

As far as you know, and everything you've looked into that's acceptable by the trash hauler correct.

Q

Yeah and you're also familiar with the fact that the health department has applicable.

Q

Regulations regarding outdoor disposal of animal waste is that, right, yes, and to your.

Q

Understanding your property will need to exceed all those necessary requirements. Correct yeah,.

D

Now, what steps, if any, have you taken or will you take to curtail barking of any dog on your.

Q

Property, so with the older females of course, they're trained. So it's giving a simple command.

R

Most of them they actually speak german as their first command. Of course, they understand no-till.

R

So we'll say, symbol, 9 and then it's kind of like an escalation from there. So I do have.

R

Bark collars that I'm able to use set different settings on if they continue to bark the vibration.

R

Would get stronger? I have enough for every dog, as my mentor told me, because you never know.

R

They're rechargeable, but I barely ever need to use them. Usually it's a friendly reminder for.

R

A day and she's done, another thing that I have on the property is called a bark max silencer that I.

R

Bought from a good life dog company and that's something you can hang up on a structure or a.

R

Tree and it uses ultrasonic to deter barking, so it waits if it's more than one bark or they're going.

R

Back and forth is then when the ultrasonic would come out, but it's not curable to us.

R

Just to them, okay, so that that device doesn't take any action unless and until.

Q

There is one or more marks that trigger it, yes and then to your understanding what.

Q

Does that device do it lets out an ultrasonic sound that they can hear and deters them from.

R

Continuously, barking, okay, all right and have you seen through a combination of what.

Q

You described their training, the commands, the collars, if necessary, and this device.

Q

Is there a lot of working in the property? No I've heard from numerous people that they can't believe.

R

The size of the dogs, because they didn't hear them before they got down to actually see them.

Q

And when you say the dogs are trained with german commands, um you're talking about.

Q

The adult dogs is that right, yes, and are they trained at the time you take ownership of that.

R

They are so I receive all of my dogs, because the stage I am with my family, I wouldn't be.

R

Able to actively train put in all the time and then to go to travel to these different shows.

R

So I purchased them, they already have all three standards met by the german standard, so they're.

R

Titled in work they've received their breed survey, temperament, testing, hips and elbows, and been shown.

Q

And a number of the photos that are already in evidence will demonstrate.

Q

This but it's fair to say your property is surrounded almost on all sides by woods.

Q

Do you believe that the proposed use is appropriate at your location and within the.

Q

General area for what's going on in surrounding properties, yes, and are you familiar or aware of.

Q

Any similar uses that have either currently or historically been in place on neighboring.

J

Do we have a conversation where there was a neighbor of yours who historically read labs? Yes,.

R

Okay, I've forgotten about that detail. I'm sorry! Okay! um I had discussed with a neighbor recently.

R

And they, let me know that their family had actually bred labs for hunting, and I had no idea.

Q

And that was one of the directly adjoining properties. Yes, okay, now, let's talk about.

Q

uh Your driveway a bit- I know the board has all seen it since they were at the the site, visits.

Q

On two occasions, as I understand it, have you had to make any improvements to the.

Q

Driveway, since you purchased the property, yes, can you describe what you've had to do.

R

So for our driveway that just splits off and we share with the one neighbor.

R

There were lots of continuous potholes and issues, so we brought in number two stones multiple times.

R

Instead of paying to get it rolled out, we chose to drop both for about a year and pack, it down.

R

Ourselves then, of course, we tried millings before, but the same potholes came right back.

R

Then we waited approximately about a year after we had driven over it and put millings back over.

R

To create a smoother surface, any issues out there with potholes or anything, we've always.

R

Addressed them and fixed them, we also had some issues with runoff same thing. We had two that's.

R

Another reason why we got the number twos to hold the millings into place, um so the driveway has.

R

Been a continuous battle up until the past year, or so I think we finally figured out how to redo it.

R

And get the stone to stay in place, but the paved driveway that you drive in one that we have more.

R

Common access with the neighbors that goes all the way out to the apron onto route 91. My husband.

R

And I completely paid to pave that ourselves and we had it beefed up to a thicker standard.

R

Than just your normal standard from shaffer's paving and you paid eight hundred 16, seventy.

Q

Dollars for that, didn't you yes, and did you have any contribution from any of your neighbors? No.

Q

um Do you think the current state of your driveway is sufficient to accommodate the minimal traffic.

Q

You believe would be associated with your business, yes, and is there similar traffic on the driveway.

Q

Currently, whether it goes to your house or any of the other adjoining properties that.

Q

Just occurs to you, the deliveries traveling out that kind of thing yes, and um will your business.

Q

Generate any additional traffic specifically for deliveries or anything like that, no um okay, so.

Q

Ultimately, what you're requesting of this board is permission to have a commercial kennel for.

Q

Up to 10 adult dogs: isn't that correct? Yes, all right and have you discussed your ambition with.

Q

Any of your neighbors um yes, so I've talked to some of them in person about it. When I was.

R

Calling the county and discovering the steps I needed to do this when they said commercial.

R

Kennel, I thought it couldn't be right, so I kept calling and directing to different departments.

R

So once I discovered it really would be called a commercial panel, I was really nervous, so I.

R

Talked with different neighbors about it, and really that it's just having over the.

R

Two litters is why I would have to go ahead and apply for it. They were very.

R

Encouraging about it, so I decided to go ahead and pursue it so once I did that I let them know that.

R

But I also drafted a letter to give to all of my neighbors. I gave it to all my adjoining people, but.

R

Then I also gave it to other people that share our driveway to let them know why I wanted to pursue.

R

This that it was called a commercial kennel, but that I didn't actually plan on being a commercial.

R

Kennel, that's just the way the definition by the county goes and what exactly I wanted to do.

R

I also left a spot for feedback from them, whether it's positive or they had a comment.

R

That I could possibly improve I did put in there to please give me any details, because.

R

It could be something really simple that I just didn't think of myself.

R

That could be an easy fix and I was willing to do that and I did receive some good feedback from.

R

Multiple neighbors, mr oh man, am I on exhibit 12.. You are yes well wait! Your own exhibits.

Q

Q

Three four different letters that you receive that are supportive from either directly adjoining or.

Q

Nearby property owners is that, right, yes, okay and I want to show you also number 15, which.

Q

We just got this morning is that one you also recently received from directly joining our nearby.

R

Yes, and you have gotten one written notice of opposition- is that correct? Yes, okay, mr.

A

We'll go ahead and accept those into evidence.

Q

I don't have any further questions for ms schaefer at this time.

A

Okay, does anyone in the audience have any questions for ms schaefer's testimony.

A

And again, you'll have opportunity for your own testimony, but questions of her testimony.

A

Go to the microphone and uh please state your name, address occupation and spell.

A

For the record, your last name- zap z-e-p-p, 57-10 emory road upper club, maryland 21155, I'm retired.

H

With 39 years worked as a teacher and an administrator in baltimore county school system,.

H

Any other questions no you're good, so I'm not exactly sure how to proceed here. I have a number.

H

Of questions some, I guess mrs schafer can answer and others are matters of county uh regulations.

A

Let me interrupt you. um We have uh also I'm assuming that mr podolak is there to answer.

A

Questions about uh specific questions about the building and the site is, would that be correct? Mr.

A

Codelack, okay, so so questions of her testimony and then you'll have the opportunity to ask mr kodlak.

A

Questions technical questions about the actual design of what's happening there.

A

All right, okay, do I ask him in this here: no, not wait to ask for his testimony. Okay, okay,.

H

Let me see, I guess this is a question. I would need to ask him, but.

M

uh What structures are necessary for a commercial channel? Is that something I would need to ask him.

A

Well, I I think in her testimony she outlined the buildings that are going to be.

A

Used but maybe that would be better suited to mr potelai all right.

H

Then again, a question about counter regulations surrounding those structures.

H

um In terms of permitting in terms of instruction uh inspections, electrical mechanical plumbing.

H

Fencing, I guess those are questions he would answer. Also uh there's those are questions and mr.

A

I want to um maybe clarify exactly what we're doing here as the board is earning appeals as.

A

As as citizen planners, the request is for a conditional use for a commercial kennel.

A

And the commercial kennel is defined uh in the code as you need to have a commercial kennel.

A

License if you breed more than two litters of pups a year on that property, so that's the reason.

A

For the commercial kennel, the actual site plan, which will be a requirement, will go before the.

A

Technical review committee and then the planning commission either as a simple plan or I don't know.

A

If it would be a simple plan or not whether it will have to go before the planning commission.

A

So those are issues that will be addressed at that point. So what we're dealing with is the.

A

Conditional use and whether this is appropriate in this particular area and and determine whether.

A

This commercial kennel at this location would generate adverse effects above and beyond those.

A

Normally associated with a kennel in any other zone, any other place in the ag zone.

H

All right, thank you for that, because most of these questions, then, would be concerning.

H

Another um review of her proposal- yes, yes, okay, so so we're we're not approving buildings.

A

Or or the site plan today, it's the conditional use, it's the zoning certificate, it's the it's! The.

A

Conditional use of this in the agricultural zone right and I guess I would reserve.

H

Any comment I would make uh for a few more minutes until my testimony is there. Yes,.

A

Okay, thank you. Okay and and again after mr potalack's testimony, you can ask him questions.

A

On his actual testimony and I'm sure he's going to be a little more detailed in the actual site.

A

Plan because that's that's what he does for a living all right. Thank you, okay. Thank you.

A

Okay board members: any questions of.

G

Miss shapers go ahead, uh miss schaefer good morning, I've, a couple of questions for you.

G

Would it be reasonable looking at the site plan, I believe that the the animal enclosure.

G

Area closest to your front gate is about 30 to 50 feet below your neighbor's property location is.

G

That correct in terms of height, so you can't see the neighbor from that animal pen. Is that correct.

R

Yeah, I could see the top of their house top of the house- okay, but not their backyard.

R

No okay, um second question: in exhibits: uh three and four: there are.

G

Structures in those pictures are those residences or barns, or uh buildings of.

G

Can we see the exhibits.

G

Three and four.

Q

Please this is exhibit three.

Q

Yeah, this is a building back here: okay, okay and then exhibit four.

G

Again appears to be a building back here in the trees. Okay, all right! Thank you. I'm just.

G

Curious as to how close they were, or if there were residences or at buildings, sure, okay.

Q

Exhibit three the building that mr clone was inquiring about, is here our outdoor buildings.

R

Are our sheds, that's your building? Yes, oh okay and then exhibit four the building mr caldwell.

Q

Is asking about is white and through the trees here that is miss denyon's um house, mary, daniel.

Q

Yes, she's one of the people, who's indicated support of the application and when these trees.

R

No, not at all, there's actually a big valley and between us there's, actually, multiple valleys.

R

But no you can't see in the summer time, but in the winter time. Thank you.

A

um What's the total acreage of your property, I believe.

R

6.13, I'm sorry 6.13 acres.

A

And the fenced-in area is what acreage very close to that is is: is the entire property.

A

Fenced or a portion of the property, just a portion of the properties fenced. So it's fencing that we.

R

Had existing um it's a little less than half a square acre or half okay! So two and a half to.

A

Three acres: an estimate, I'm sorry. What two and a half to three acres would that be a fair estimate.

R

Of what's fenced in or what yeah what's fenced, what's fenced in that you're, going to utilize.

A

With your dog, no it's a little less than half an acre a little bit. Okay, half an acre.

A

And what what is the type of fencing that will be utilized to contain his dogs in that half an acre.

R

So we have wood fencing up with the big round post and then we have four boards.

R

Up instead of your traditional three, so we have the bottom three space closer.

R

Together and then we have the fourth one, it's a little bit larger of a gap.

R

But not too large, because if they were to try to jump through, they wouldn't be able to make it. Okay,.

A

Very good, that's all the questions I have everybody done.

A

Okay, lazariaga, you can call your next witness. Thank you, mr shaffer.

S

Oh good afternoon.

S

Good afternoon, mr proto-life, could you uh state your name address and occupation and.

A

Skull for the record, your last name- yes, my name is peter podolek, p-o-d-o-l-a-k.

S

I'm located at 147 east main street in westminster maryland I'm a board certified civil engineer.

S

Registration number 19561, and I am representing the applicant lauren.

S

Shaffer and mr lazariago, we will accept him as an expert witness in those fields, as he has testified.

A

uh Before this board, before that's great uh mr chair, I would offer him as an expert in.

Q

Land planning, engineering and surveying- and if I may uh give yes please, mr oman.

Q

A copy of his cv record- yes, please, and- and we will accept that into evidence. Thank you.

Q

All right, mr podolac, you've got a copy of the plant associated with this application in front.

Q

Of you is that correct? uh Yes, can you just describe generally, uh what does the flat show.

S

The plat represents a survey that we completed and it depicts the limits and boundary of the property.

S

All the improvements on the property it has topography, it also shows the areas that are wooded.

S

Shows fences, septic area, well location and basically um everything.

S

uh That is on the property and that affects the property. With respect to title.

Q

And you, either personally or under your supervision prepared. This exhibit is that correct.

Q

That is correct um and you heard mrs shaffer indicate that the property was.

Q

6.131 acres is that something you verified? Yes, is this property located in the agricultural.

Q

Zone within the county, uh yes zone, agriculture- and you understand the pending application before the.

Q

Board is for a commercial kennel, as defined by the county's. Owning coordinates, correct.

S

Yes and pursuant to that ordinance, uh there's effectively distance requirements associated.

Q

With the commercial count right, uh that is correct, okay, and specifically in section 158.040.

Q

A commercial kennel has to be at least 200 feet away from any lot of less than three acres. That.

Q

Is improved with an occupied dwelling, a recorded residential lot or for which a construction.

Q

Permit has been issued is that correct, uh that's correct and all of the adjoining lots.

Q

That are shown on this plat are more than three acres. Is that correct? That is correct? Okay and.

Q

It also requires that the use be 200. Excuse me 300 feet away from any dwelling on an adjoining.

Q

Lot of more than three acres is that correct: uh did you say 200 or 300, 300 300, um that that.

S

Is correct, um although I was under the pressure, we were 200 because we were less than 10 dogs.

Q

Okay, so it's required to be more than 300 feet away.

Q

From a dwelling on an adjoining lot, that's greater than three acres: okay,.

Q

Now those distances are required to be doubled in the events that the application is for more than.

Q

10, adult dogs, correct that is correct, but you've heard ms schaefer testify she's only asking for.

Q

A maximum of 10 of those correct, okay, and with all of the the distances that you verified, that are.

Q

Shown on this plat does the proposed use meet or exceed those distance requirements? uh Yes,.

S

The the uh the plat unfortunately just shows a 200 foot setback. However, if you we added the.

S

Extra 100 feet, which would be two more inches on this scale. We would find that there's only one.

S

Property, one house: that's close to the property boundary and that's the house located at 5714.

S

5714 emory road.

A

Mr prodigy, could you tell us who the owner is of that property and the owner of that property is.

S

Carol, uh I'm sorry norman.

S

Well, the owner is carol, ann phillips, the previous owner was norman driven, but he is deceased.

S

Okay, thank you and the the plot shows, uh mr podolak. Does it not that the distance from.

Q

The proposed use- and this is this- is counting the house, the basement in which the puppies are kept.

Q

Is at a minimum 368 feet from that residence, correct correct that that.

S

The house, where the puppies make me in the house was 386 feet away.

S

And the other structures which may house the the animals are even further away.

S

From that area and the uh there's a fenced in animal pen at the northeastern corner of.

S

The property- and that too, is greater than 300 feet away from the dwelling previously.

Q

And any other dwelling, that's even in the vicinity, is more than 600 feet, away from the boundaries of.

Q

Proposed use is that correct, correct that the the uh there's really only one house- that's visible.

S

If you're standing on the property and that's the uh the denial property married.

S

um And that's 5710b.

S

S

And that's over 300 feet from the property boundary uh that house.

S

As miss taylor testified, you can only see the top of it.

S

The property is very well screened, um I'd say over 50 of the property is wooded, so.

S

The trees provide both a screen, visible screen and also it would act to muffle any noise.

S

From the property um mr chair, if I might inquire, is there already a copy of the.

Q

Full plaque in the yes, the file, it's already already in the record. Yes, okay, thank you.

Q

Okay, so for the agricultural zone, do you um have any sort of opinion or testimony about.

Q

If this lot is or is not unique um from there, there's.

S

We get into the legal question: schultz versus pritz, there's really nothing negative about this.

S

Property that would preclude the use or exacerbate the use or make this use unacceptable. So in.

S

That regard it would be the same as any other piece of property in the same zoning district.

S

With that being sitting, the property has some some positive factors that are important. The fact that.

S

A majority of it is wooded, provides the screen. The sound barrier is, is a big plus. Secondly, there's.

S

Infrastructure on the property which would aid for this use, there's an animal pen.

S

Already fenced off, there's barns, sheds and other areas that could be used for this use.

D

Let's stick for the moment with the the lot size shape that type of thing.

Q

The plaque that's in the record indicates one of the immediate adjoining properties.

Q

Is 65.082 acres so that's substantially larger. All of the other adjoiners.

Q

Are they roughly the same size or a little bit bigger a little bit smaller? Yes, uh some some were.

S

A little bit larger some are bigger, but, as you had said, that they're all three acres or larger and so.

S

They there's significant distance between them, the dwellings and the topography of the surrounding.

Q

Lots is is, or is not roughly similar to the one on the shaffer property. um It's it's all similar.

Q

Okay and uh the proposed location, you indicated you think approximately half of it.

Q

Is uh wooded is, is that, uh typically from a land planning perspective considered to be.

Q

An adequate buffer for any improvements or noise.

S

Yes, yes, and which sides of the property are surrounded by a wooden area.

Q

Roughly half the property, but too many more.

S

So the woods right behind the house is, for the most part, a cleared area yard.

S

And then, where the animal pen is in the northeast corner is clear, but there's a little.

S

Bit of woods that comes through there, the rest of the property, for the most part is all wooded.

S

With the exception of where the improvements are, the wooded areas are depicted on green on the on.

S

The zoning flat, um so the woods for the most part starts midway. The property line in the north side.

S

Continues: counter-clockwise for the most part, all the way around the perimeter of the property up.

S

Into the driveway, where the driveway forks once it's on, reaches the subject, property.

Q

Now the proposed use on the locations described on the plaque, can you say with any level of.

Q

Confidence, what any portions of it will be visible from adjoining property owners, lots.

S

Yes, I mean, frankly, um I believe, the only portion of the property that you would see from any house.

S

Would likely be 5710b, but I've never been on that property. So I don't know how much of the property.

S

You can see, I know from from the property. Looking at the house, you would see the top of the house.

S

Standing at the house and looking to the south.

S

You cannot see the house at 57-14, although that is the closest dwelling to this property. Having.

S

Been recognized as an expert in land planning, do you have an opinion as to whether or not this.

Q

Location is an appropriate area for a commercial kennel, as proposed, I believe it's appropriate. I I.

S

I understand you know: I've been involved in other kennels uh conditional use cases, uh and this is.

S

Not your traditional kennel, where someone's gonna be breeding dogs, and you know, I believe, when you.

S

Take a dog out of its environment and you bring it into an area for a week or so that the dog gets.

S

Spooked barks makes noise whines and whatever this really isn't the case here here, where the the the.

S

Applicant is looking to breed dogs, so essentially the dogs live with her. She takes care of the dogs.

S

The dogs are familiar with the surrounding, so I I don't anticipate the type of noise.

S

From this particular kennel that you would have with the traditional boarding kennel, furthermore,.

S

You know the breeding and the number of dogs.

S

That number is going to be probably puppies for the most part, and so you know we say 10 dogs here.

S

uh I don't think we're going to have 10 adult dogs run around bark. I think what.

S

We had would have would be small litters that would eventually be broken up, sold and.

S

I I don't see any real issues here that or any conditions that I would say, are detrimental.

S

For this particular use, let me ask you perhaps a little bit more specifically.

Q

Being familiar with the site in the surrounding area, in your expert opinion, would the proposed.

Q

Use create any dangerous traffic conditions or jeopardize the lives or property of anybody nearby.

S

No, no, we we've heard from testimony from ms schaefer that basically, the only customers.

S

That will come to the site for the most part be to either pick up by the dog or or meet the dog. So.

S

We're talking about a low traffic generating use and in your expert.

Q

Opinion does the proposed use at this location present an adverse effect above and beyond those.

Q

Inherently associated with the same use, regardless of its location within the zoning scheme, uh no and.

Q

um I don't know if you had an opportunity to review the comments from um ms eisenberg, but take.

Q

A look at what I'm showing you that's part of the record in this case. Yes, no, I have not seen this.

Q

um So in your expert opinion is the proposed use consistent with the orderly.

Q

Growth and development of the community- uh yes, and is the proposed use consistent with.

Q

The zoning ordinance and the master plan, as amended for the count yes.

Q

Don't have anything further, first of all, okay, does anyone in the audience have any.

A

Questions of mr potilak's testimony mr zepp go to the microphone. Please.

H

Thank you. uh Let me preface my remarks by saying I'm a firm believer in the fact that a person's.

D

Property ought to be able to be used as they see fit, and, to that extent that's the reason why.

H

Zoning is is in place so that the county and the overall community can also determine if that is.

H

The correct usage there, mr kodala, um have you been to the property physically. Yes, your testimony was.

H

That only one house can be seen from their house is that correct? Yes, you know standing.

H

You then did not look at my house, I can see theirs and they can see mine and the person.

H

Beside me, mr burnside, and also his house, can also be seen as well as the one that you named 5714.

H

Mrs phillips house, so there's three houses that can be seen. Mr bale for.

Q

Purposes of the record, I'm going to do an objection. I think mr zepp is certainly.

Q

Going to have the opportunity to testify, but that's he did not ask a question. Yeah.

Q

And and mr zepp, I don't mean to cut you off, but mr missouri yaga makes a very good point.

A

You will have at the conclusion of him calling witnesses. You will have the opportunity.

A

To go ahead and provide testimony of your own subject to cross-examination the same.

A

As they were, and that would probably be more appropriate, this is like jeopardy. You have to.

A

You're, you should form everything as a question to mr kovalev all right. Well then, I have two okay.

A

And and that's that's, fine and and listen. I appreciate you helping me through this.

A

And I I don't hold it against you, because it's I've been on this board quite a few years and the.

A

Process is still confusing to even me, so go ahead, it's quasi-judicial! That's why it's confusing.

H

uh Then the question that I would have you for you, mr kolach, do the present buildings.

H

And the information that mr shaper has given you meet the definition for a commercial kennel.

S

Yes, insofar as you know, the property is the property.

S

um I'm sure that there may be some additional improvements.

S

But my understanding of the operations is that you know the dogs are kept in the house or.

S

They may be housed in another building in the future.

S

The general operation would be if the dog.

S

There's the bathroom that they would pick up pick up the.

S

The bottom line is.

S

As I said, they may decide to do some additional.

S

But there's adequate.

H

All right, then, the question that I would have is: will new buildings be required in.

H

Order for her to have at least 10 adults, I don't believe so. I think, there's sufficient.

S

Sufficient infrastructure on the property to house these animals.

S

And nothing is proposed.

H

So in your opinion, she could contain 10 adults.

H

In the house, and in a less than quarter or less than half acre paddock.

H

Objection, I know this is quasi-judicial. I don't think that's what mr potolak testified to. He.

Q

Said there's no further improvements proposed at this time and he thinks the property is suited.

H

All right I'll, let the and that's and that's that's what was testified to.

H

All right and I'll, let the commission then decide on that. Thank you, okay and and with the record.

S

We would be subject to some type of site development plan and at the site, development.

M

Plan, that is where issues such as traffic issues such as susan's vote and stormwater management.

S

And other environmental regulations- that's where everything would be addressed.

H

And that was to be my follow-up question, so you've answered that all the county requirements for.

H

Buildings building permits inspections, all that would be taken care of. It would be taken care of.

H

Thank you second element. Okay, board members. Any questions with mr potella.

A

My question to you, mr potalack, is there, are there any additional buildings being proposed in this.

A

Process uh not at this point in mind. Okay, I just wanted to agree yeah. I just wanted to reiterate.

A

That so that's and and if there were it would be subject to either a modified site plan or a.

A

Full site plan before the planning commission correct, we would be- we would be subject to.

S

A building permit, uh and that would more than likely trigger an additional site plan.

S

Or at least depending on the size of the building and the type of the building.

S

It may not require a full site development plan, but a modified site plan, but at least.

S

A drawing to accompany the building permanently very good okay, mr lazariago, any other witnesses.

Q

No, no not at this time, unless we need to put on rebuttal evidence. Thank you. Okay, very good,.

A

Okay, mr zapp, would you like to present um your evidence? You don't have to form it in those in.

A

A question: now you can go ahead and present evidence if you would like, so you can speak.

A

Before or against and then stay there at the microphone and we will quiz you on your testimony.

H

uh Just one thing, and that is she testifies that the dogs cannot be heard and she has.

H

An embarking control, ultrasonic device. uh Just yesterday around four o'clock. uh The dogs were.

H

Out I thought perhaps they were in a fight and quite a few parts. I'm a quarter mile away.

H

Quite a loud noise, and that occurs from time to time secondary to that is from time to time.

H

Her dogs have gotten loose. I have been over at my house and been out to my daughter's house.

H

He's here today, but doesn't care to testify and have uh actually one of them walked or was out.

H

A half a mile away and hit on the road by the vehicle. So in terms of her.

H

Ability to control her animals, I have some suspicion that it's less than adequate and.

H

That would be my only testimony. Okay just stay right there, mr lazariaga any.

Q

Q

No, I don't have any questions about questions yet. Okay board members, any questions of mr zep.

G

No, no. Thank you, mr zo. Thank you.

A

Okay, that's everybody that raised their hand and took the oath so.

A

Presentation of testimony and evidence is now closed and some asians are in order. Mr lazariaga.

Q

Thank you, mr chair uh board. Member excuse me board members. Thank you for your time this morning,.

Q

You've heard a prime facial case that this falls within the county codes. Definition of.

Q

A commercial kennel, you've heard evidence that, I think, is obviously I am her advocate, but I think.

Q

It's impressive: how much thought, effort and uh expense that miss schaefer and her family have.

Q

Put into this venture that they plan to bring to the county and your task is to decide, does it meet.

Q

Schultz versus pritz is there anything worse at this location than anywhere else in the zone and.

Q

There's been no testimony to suggest that so the only other threshold this board needs to consider.

Q

Aside from those in the code, does it meet the distance requirements and we have uncontradicted.

Q

Expert testimony that it does so that makes this a presumed appropriate use. So we request that you.

Q

Grant the application for a commercial kennel for 10 or fewer adult dogs in this location. Thank you.

A

Okay, the hearing and record of this case is now closed and in accordance with the.

A

Open meeting acts of maryland, the board will now consider the case. Mr simmons, thank you calling me.

A

uh I want to commend mr missouri, especially mrs schaefer, for your testimony, your preparation, your.

O

Thoroughness, if I ever have a dog I'll, come to you that, if that's a ratification of what I've heard.

O

There's no question in my mind that you've more than.

O

Met the standard for conditional use for a commercial account, I intend to vote to approve it.

G

Mr caldwell, it's clear that the applicant has gone above and beyond to you know, prepare for breeding.

G

Dogs- it's quite exceptional. Actually, you learn quite a bit from your testimony. Thank you for that.

G

I intend to approve this application eckert. uh I was impressed as well and really have nothing.

J

Else to add- and I intend to vote in favor of this, mr snyder, ironically, the one.

I

Excuse my police are glaring. um I remind you the one question I was going to ask and didn't.

I

Was have the dogs ever gotten out and that has not become a problem and, notwithstanding you know,.

I

Dogs get out cattle get out, um it does happen. um I don't have any problem with the application. I.

I

Think is well presented, I think you're very committed to the effort and with that said, I.

I

Think it would equally be committed to ensure that your dog stays secure. um Looking for going forward.

A

Or whatever the case may be so with that said, I support you, so the request that we were.

A

That was before us today was for conditional use of a commercial kennel.

A

And, as we've become all too familiar, we're very aware of what the commercial kennel definition is.

A

And it's if you're breeding more than two liters of pups per year,.

A

And again it's you went with 10 dogs as opposed to more than 10 dogs.

A

Put you in a little bit different category.

A

We're charged with determining whether this commercial kennel at this location would generate.

A

Adverse effects above and beyond those normally associated with kennels in other zones. That's.

A

The schulzby print standards and they're met in this case today. There's no additional buildings.

A

That was testified to um it meets all the setbacks for the 10 dogs. It would have been more if it was.

A

11 dogs, um bark collars can be utilized and it was testified that there was a little ruckus going on.

A

At four o'clock or so yesterday, um but you can't have the bark collars on and you shouldn't have.

A

The bark collars on the dogs, 24 7., so I'm assuming that that that's that was addressed yesterday.

A

I think one of the things that was very compelling in the testimony was the distinction between.

A

A boarding kennel and a breeding kennel, mr podolac articulated that, and I thought that was very.

A

Interesting because these dogs are in a familiar environment, all the time as opposed to a boarding.

A

Kennel, where dogs are out of their environment and maybe a little more vocal than they would.

A

Normally be, and I think that that's a distinction uh that this board needs to or should take into.

A

Consideration in their deliberations- and I it's my experience- that a boarding kennel would be.

A

A little rowdier than a breeding kennel, so with that board, do we have a motion case number 6367.

A

I make the motion to approve the request for a conditional use for a commercial account.

A

Okay, any discussion on the motion seeing none all in favor, aye aye, all those no.

A

Motion carries our oral decision will become final upon a written decision which will be.

A

Issued within 30 days, unless otherwise and unless otherwise extended by this board,.

A

The board's decision may be appealed by filing a petition for judicial review.

A

With the clerk of the circuit court for carroll county, in accordance with the provisions.

D

Of chapter 200 title vii of the maryland rules of procedure, the appeal must be filed within 30.

A

Days of the date of this board's written decision, thank you very much, and this hearing is adjourned.

A