Carroll County, MD Carroll County Board of Zoning Appeals, 29 Mar 2022

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From YouTube: Board of Zoning Appeals March 29, 2022

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A

Florida zoning appeals meeting to order in our first order of business is we have a.

A

Request for an extension- yes, um mr dixon, all right, we have a march 4 2022 letter from.

B

Clark, r schaefer on behalf of northeastern supply, inc, eldersburg, bzak, 6348,.

B

He represents northeast eastern supply. The purpose of the letter is to request a one year.

B

Extension of the bza approval pursuant to section uh well, it's in the code, the.

B

Reason for the request is that additional civil engineering time is needed in order to modify the.

B

Storm water management design to not utilize the existing storm water management facility.

B

Located on the adjacent parcel of land, it has recently come to our attention that the existing.

B

Pond may not be upgraded to meet state and county regulations. The storm water management facility.

B

Is located within a 4.21 acre parcel owned by brevard square business park owners association.

B

Inc located on georgetown boulevard having an account number, this affects my client as follows:.

B

All engineering completed thus far and conceptual site planning underway assumed that the reference.

B

Storm water management facility would be available to handle volume from the main street eldersburg.

B

Project which includes the catamount properties site, the catamount engineers clsi, had come up with.

B

A sketch drawing that would have been submitted in late march 2022 for the april 2022 trc.

B

Which drawing did not anticipate on-site retention? Only bmp facilities for water quality.

A

So that's a request, mr shaffer. Do you have anything to add to that? Since you were the author.

A

Of that letter, uh thank you, mr bail clark. Shea. uh uh No, unless the board has questions I mean I can.

C

Explain a little bit more of this if you want, but uh it has to do with storm water management and.

C

There was an existing pond. There is an existing pond down there, not on this people's property.

C

But that everybody thought would be usable to serve this property and and other properties done.

C

By main street, including the county, because the county eyed for a retrofit, with using some grant.

C

Monies and doing a deal with everybody to pitch in their share and then what happened is apparently.

C

The engineers found that at some point, no, it's not going to work so, therefore, you can't use it.

C

For your off site, there's there's offsite on site with stormwater management, and the engineer was.

C

Assuming that that would take care of the off-site well now, the engineer has to figure out a way to.

C

Deal with it on-site, so that's the reason for the request and who's who who changed the rules.

A

There was that mde. No, no, then it's not a rule change it's it's! It's an engineering assumption.

C

That turned out not to be true for, and I don't know why, but I was involved in a lot of meetings.

C

Not you know related to this pond on behalf of the developer, dixon harvey.

C

Main street project down there, and so I'm familiar with that pond and the county was interested in.

C

The dam structure, and yes it does mr bail- does circle back to md because you got to satisfy.

C

Mde, uh not new regs, but does the dam structure work? Can you put enough water in there and does.

C

It have capacity and everybody thought it was an ideal candidate, but apparently it turned out.

C

That it it's not, and now everybody has to figure out a way to deal with their stormwater management.

C

On site, which is a lot more expensive, a lot more challenging, but it can be done.

C

So that's what happened, and uh apparently it happened sometime between your decision.

C

It being that they found that it couldn't work sometime between your decision and now.

A

Okay, any any questions board members of mr shaffer and both the request was for one year that, yes,.

A

Okay, any discussion board members before a motion I'll entertain a motion move for.

D

Approval of the extension, it's that second, okay, any further discussion on the motion.

A

All those in favor aye aye all opposed no motion carry, so we will grant this project.

A

A one year extension, thank you very much. Thank you, mr schaefer. Okay, sign in sheets on the side.

A

If you haven't signed in already go ahead and do that, I want to remind you to leave.

A

By the same door, you came in so that they're not searching the building and closing time for you.

A

With that we'll go ahead and get to our first case on the agenda this morning, and that is.

A

Let me see, what's called case number 6383, mr dixon did we need to introduce anything in the.

A

File the file's already been introduced to previous. Has it no, this one hasn't.

B

Okay, this has okay go ahead. Would you go ahead and introduce the file for us? Please.

B

All right case 6383 an appeal of the zoning administrator's notice of violation for a.

B

Contractor's equipment, storage, yard the site is located at lot: 1, 2.87 acres next to 3309.

B

Sykesville road maryland on property zone, a agricultural district in election district.

B

04 by dominico amodei uh code of public local laws and ordinances, section 158.133.

B

D2, a site visit is tentatively scheduled for thursday march 17 2022 at 9 15 a.m. So this.

B

Hearing is not about the use, it's about the notice of violation, okay and jay's. Opinion is attached to.

B

What I provided, okay, all right, very good in the file this matter. We have the following documents:.

B

The site visit minutes.

B

uh The adjustment notice was posted march 4th 2022 by scott robinson zoning inspector.

B

um The applicant on the page 204 says uh this about this appeal. This is for notice of appeal.

B

For my contractor's equipment storage yard, there was a there was some paperwork letters.

B

I haven't received, and I received some of them later past- the date of completion.

B

Plus I have a letter explaining uh my last few months of personal issues.

B

There is a december 1st 2021 letter from jc voigt zoning administrator to uh uh dominico amadeu.

B

To whom it may concern letter.

B

And that letter could be appealed.

B

There's a january 26 2022 letter from mr domenico amide.

B

Requesting an extension of uh for his bza case, 6148.

B

There is a zoning administration investigation, progress report, five pages long.

B

And there is a plan in here I would, as that bobby entered in evidence. Do we have a motion to enter.

A

The file into evidence, okay, foul, has been moved and seconded to move the following evidence. All.

A

Those in favor aye, aye aye all opposed. No, we will go ahead and move the file into evidence.

A

If you're going to testify today in the case, could you go ahead and please stand and take the oath.

A

Raise your right hand, do you swear or affirm, under the penalties of perjury, that testimony.

A

You're about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

A

Very good, you may be seated uh somebody just come up and sit at that table. Yeah, yes, jay.

A

You might as well come up and come to one table and mr amadeus, you can come to another table.

A

As you make your as you make your way through the crowd.

A

Mr ramadan, what we're going to do is we're going to you know. Let.

A

Mr voigt go ahead and tell us how we've gotten to this point.

A

And then you'll have the opportunity to go ahead and give your case. And please remember, to state.

A

Your name address and occupation and spell for the record of your last name: okay, mr voight,.

E

Good morning my name is jay voight, I'm the zoning administrator for carroll county office address is.

E

225 north center street westminster maryland. uh The reason we're here today is there was.

E

A sight plane that was approved a while ago on case 6148 for a contractor's equipment, storage.

E

Yard, located on mr amador's property, um there had been some progress in the very beginning of.

E

Getting the site plan approved and everything mr wake, could I ask you what was the date on that.

A

Sorry, while you got that 6148.

E

June 3rd 2019.

E

uh Initially, there was some progress on the site plan being made and everything.

E

And then, after a while, there was no progress made.

E

We had sent various letters informing mr amadori that he needed to make progress so one more.

E

That the decision could be voided for a lack of progress or getting it approved.

E

We did send a letter stating that at this stage, if we hadn't heard anything, we would.

E

Be avoiding the approval because there was no progress being done on the site plan.

E

Which we did then, after that, since there was no more approval for this contractor's.

E

Storage yard for the property we issued a notice of violation.

E

Stating that since the site plan had not been finished and approved, he was in violation for.

E

Having a contractor's quitting storage arguments property without the proper approvals and.

E

That was sent back in december and we're here today for that.

A

Refresh my memory, I think mr emma day has been this was his third time before us was. Was there.

A

A request for an extension at some point in time um there was, after we had mailed the letters out.

E

Stating decision had been voided because of no no contact or nothing responded, since he was passed.

E

The date of that he could have requested the variance at that time could not accept it, because.

E

It was past the due date that he had to request the variance and that's why we avoided the letter.

A

This is a hypothetical, but would you if that letter would have been timely? Would you have.

A

Granted the request, if, like I say if the requests have been made within the time period, that was.

E

Required for an extension, of course, he would have had to come before the board, which wouldn't have.

E

Been a problem- and you know we would have had no problem with it, but since we had received no.

E

Contact or anything from him there was, you know nothing. We can do his time had expired for the.

E

Request so we couldn't accept it at that point: okay, board members, any questions of mr voice.

A

Okay, very good, mr ramaday go ahead. Remember to take your name address an occupation and uh we'll.

A

Go ahead and give you the floor and see you've got some rolled up paper there in front of you yeah, so.

F

It's uh domenico amide, that's amo dei address is 3409 pine circle. South westminster, maryland.

F

I'm the owner of the hamadi property. I do have an engineer randy from bpr that was working on this.

F

um I actually I got into an accident, um it's been 10 surgeries in the last five years, so it's been.

F

Really back and forth on me he was told I was told that he did get the paperwork approved. Then he got.

F

uh We had a zoom meeting that I actually went to with him in the office and I don't have the.

F

Dates and randy couldn't make it today um that he sent in a uh application for an extension.

F

Letter before we got the exp, uh the expiration date on the first violation.

F

And then I didn't hear anything back so I figured I know my mistake: randy was taking care of that.

F

And that's when I went in for my tnr um total ankle work.

F

Total ankle replacement and then afterwards I got hit with all these letters. At one point.

F

And then that's where we're at now I mean I'm not trying to make excuses, but that's my side of it.

A

So in the meantime so you're saying mr beck, I'm assuming you mean mr bechdel randy bechdel.

A

um And he's not able to be here today now.

F

Okay, so I mean I had all his drawings that he had. um I mean he gave me all everything.

F

That I have, I got two folders. I think there's a letter in one of these that we we sent in.

F

I don't remember who I talked to when we were in front of the zoom meeting.

F

But was at his office with the bza somebody from the bza, mr james, remember, folks, bring.

D

The mic a little bit closer to them because those of us are hard of hearing. I'm sorry.

E

Upon you, uh mr chairman, can I yesterday one thing please note mr amateur did um send in a letter for.

E

An extension previously in april 7 2021 request an extension of the approval for the site plan.

E

In this case and the board granted the request and the conditional use that was approved on june.

E

3Rd 2019 would now be valid until november 26th 2021 and let's say we hadn't, heard anything by.

E

November 26th, so in december, that's when we sent the void letter for this second extension.

E

That he would have had to request for so there wasn't a request sent for an extension previous.

E

To this it was granted until november 26th. Nothing had been done up into that date.

E

Or anything so that approval for that extension, it became long void. It was.

E

Up and no more request was made and that's when we sent the letter stating the void.

E

For the decision, and once we set the void letter, then we also had to send a notice of violation.

E

So there was a request made once before and let's say nothing was complied with the after.

E

That request was made, as I heard you said, you have a letter in your file yeah. It should be from randy.

F

It's a letter that he's speaking about right now: okay, so that's the april one yeah! So we.

F

Never heard anything back, I never heard anything back from that. He said we were supposed to have.

F

We were supposed to have a uh um like a list of what we need to do to do that, and I I never heard.

F

Anything he's never heard anything back and then it just got pushed back that he ran out of time.

F

And I never checked double checked with him. I thought everything was going through, um so he.

F

Did like I said, we have different drawings for different levels of the projects and every time.

F

We talked, it was hey. We got to get this done, so I was kind of misunderstood, of where we were at with.

F

The the actual bza until that last letter, that said, I was in violation, and I didn't understand.

F

Why we were in violation, because I thought we were up to date on getting everything moving.

A

Let me let me cut right here to the chase in your conversations with mr bechdel.

A

What time frame will he need in order to satisfy well in order to get the site plan.

F

Filed with the calendar from my understanding this last one is what we needed. This is his.

F

Last print that he gave me he said this is all up to date of where everything's supposed to.

F

Be if that, if that's submitted and mr boyd I'm asking this question- and I know this: isn't your.

A

Will this be a simplified site plan or will this have to go before the.

A

Full planning convention it goes before the full planning commission, so we're talking.

A

If it was submitted today, we're still talking about a three-month time period,.

E

If everything's ready to be approved, it could probably go before the planning commission.

E

I would say, probably sometime next month or the following month and get approval if everything's.

E

Been done and it's been approved- and this has been through technical review- was this required.

A

To go through technical review, uh it was, and it did initially go through technical review.

E

And everything without any hurdles, um I think there was a few hurdles from a couple departments.

E

But I think they were initially addressed, um but then no other progress had been made since.

E

Then, okay and mr emma date, I'm sorry no I'd like to see that. So, oh now we're going to see someone.

A

Is it your understanding.

A

That the document that you just handed ms eckert satisfied the concerns of the.

A

Technical review committee- yes, there's only one uh technical um part of it that we were.

F

Going back and forth about was the sediment ponds on the property.

F

um And when we talked about this is just a building where we're storing equipment and.

F

Trucks, it's not going to be a traffic area. It's not gonna have deliveries set there every day.

F

That was the only thing everything else we took care of, like the trees, the driveway, the actual.

F

Layout of the building, where it's staying on the property, the elevation, so we took care of all that.

B

My only concern with this case is that the rules say 158.1338.

B

On page 207 that an applicant may apply to the.

B

Dza for one extension of up to 12 months upon showing a good cause.

A

And it says one time: that's what it says and what, if this board determined that.

A

The applicant had circumstances above and beyond um um normal circumstances,.

A

That would have required that that would allow him to the board can determine that.

B

And somebody else could determine the rules say one time and challenge it: okay,.

A

Can I board numbers here's here's where's, here's where my mind's going probably.

A

um That may not occur, I'm just saying it could occur. Okay, so so.

B

A

Intimated that he had several surgeries and had medical procedures that may.

A

Have prevented him from doing that? Would it be okay if the board hears.

A

And again, I don't need to lay out the glory details of anything, but maybe a timeline.

A

Of your medical procedures and how that impacted, this.

A

Yeah so board member would that be appropriate board members and legal counsel.

A

Okay, I'm just I'm. I don't know that that's going to mitigate a decision that we make if we make a.

G

Decision that that goes against the you get one time to have an extension. I don't think.

G

Hearing the medical situation is going to make any difference if somebody's looking at that decision.

G

That's just my opinion. I will defer whatever you think.

A

What I don't want is to set precedence without testimony that this was extenuating circumstances.

G

I kind of feel like it's up to the board I feel like you know, I don't have any reason.

D

Maybe we could ask some questions to make that determination. Okay, mr snyder good for thank you.

A

I appreciate it. I see the date on the final plot that you said was completed was an april 8th was.

D

Is when that plan was dated as being completed, and your testimony is, that is the final of the final.

D

Plan that addresses any concerns that varied departments of the.

D

County had relative to your site. Is that correct? For my knowledge? Yes, okay! So.

D

I'm a little bit of a loss since the plan was completed. Why we got to november, notwithstanding.

D

You know and yeah I appreciate medical things, but again it isn't like this. It's a physical.

D

Need- and you have a professional working on the plan- why why the delay that was my- I don't know.

F

I mean I didn't know I I asked randy about it. um I guess I don't have an answer to that. One.

D

So is your position that you relinquish that responsibility to randy and randy did not.

D

Perform as you would that's what I was that's where I was at, but now I'm more in hand of it.

F

Because I'm out and actually doing things so I'm actually going through every step.

F

With randy I'm still working with the company, but I'm actually trying to get involved in.

F

If I need to run anything, if I you know, I mean just to stay up on top of everything.

D

And my other question would be: you received the notice violation in january the.

D

Fifth, at least it was dated january 5th, so, proximity to january 5th, you would have received.

D

An application: what did you do once you received so I didn't receive, I didn't receive any. I can't.

F

Remember the date, but I didn't receive anything until joe actually contacted me when I contacted.

F

Them about it and she basically emailed me all the the copies that you guys sent over.

F

So I've really I didn't, get any paper email or paper mail until after the I think it was the.

F

June or after the december one, I'm sorry after the december one, then everything came in at.

F

One time it was already past the date. Okay, so are you saying you did not receive the.

D

Letter of january 5th, in which the violation was delineated by email, yes, afterwards cause I got cc.

D

Are you saying a day a week a month, I'm saying probably close to a month.

F

Because I got cc'd with that with randy uh because we didn't have a style of or.

F

Paper of it did that letter go to you or did it go to bpr from my understanding it should have been.

F

On both, we both should have got one, but then the email we both got cc, so we both have copies of it.

D

So the letter, the letter you still live at 34, 3 409 pine circle south- is that correct? Yes, okay,.

D

So, based on your testimony, it was essentially a month. You say after the letter was mail that you.

D

Received some semblance of a copy of it correct. What did you do then? That's when I contacted randy.

F

And I tried to see what was going on. He was confused about everything because he said.

F

We he thought everything was on board until we heard back for the.

F

After the zoom meeting, when we had the extension, he thought everything was on.

F

Board until we heard back to see what we have together the next step, and then I never got, we.

F

Never both never got a next step to continue. So what what was his response to getting the.

D

Copy of the letter relative to the violation he said he's never seen that letter.

F

And that's when we started trying to figure out why why we went from a.

F

uh An extension to a violation without anything in between, because we never got an exception of a.

F

Of an extension to be accepted, it's what my understanding was from randy yeah.

F

We said today, yes, I understand the process and I just will make sure. I understand it that once the.

D

Reason that a party would request an extension is because they're not ready to proceed is that.

E

Correct that that could be part, one reason yes, and would: where would the burden lie for next steps?.

E

Well, um we have we, we sent out a letter on may 27th after the board extended the.

E

Initial extension stating that the board had done that, and it gave them until november 26th to.

E

Get the site plan finished and approved my inspector anastasia did talk to randy.

E

On november 29th, which was three days after the extension expired and according to anastasia, she.

E

Has down here that randy advised that he never received an extension letter.

E

Stating that he never received the original extension that was granted back in june.

E

He never received a copy of that extension request to the end of november.

E

um You know at that time you randy was told, I think, he'd get the extension and you know.

E

Within a couple days, we could work with him. We didn't, you know, really hear anything else about it.

E

For a while, so we went ahead with what our procedure is and if, if this conversation will.

A

Occur three days before the deadline, as opposed to three days after, if you have some latitude, yes,.

D

And then I guess, where I'm kind of perplexed, with the testimony.

D

Is if the pay professional says he did not receive a copy of the extension letter that.

D

Then, where did he think the thing's doing? My point is if he, if I mean if I was the.

D

Professional and I didn't get a receipt or some type of response to my request for an extension.

D

Then, theoretically in my head, I would assume it was not extended.

D

Is that reasonable thinking? Yes, and I would think I would have thought some action would have been.

D

Taken relative to we put a request in the time's coming up. We made a request for an extension and.

D

I haven't heard anything what's going on with that, as opposed to six months later saying for.

D

Six months saying: oh, I just never got the letter. I mean that's just a little perplexing to me.

D

Now it just doesn't really marry up very well. I have a couple of questions.

H

uh If I may sure I'm done, thank you, um uh mr voight. How do you stand out in notifications.

H

Is there uh recording delivery? uh No sir, it's general mail deliver.

E

And, according to our code, it's considered to be delivered within five days of mailing, okay uh and.

H

It's the same for the the board. Decisions too, did a copy of the uh the letter go to randy backhoe.

H

According to your records, which which one which letter the may 27th letter, the approval of the.

E

Extension, um the letter that was sent out was sent out by the board as earning appeals.

E

On may 27th- and it was mailed to mr m daddy and it does not appear to have been sent to mr bechdel.

E

But just it's still, the property owner's responsibility that his professionals.

H

I understand that sir. The the other question I have is the uh was mr bechtel present at the.

H

Approval of the extension hearing- if I remember I think that was the zoom meeting you were talking.

E

I think that's what it was randy was there for that hearing, so he did get notifications. I I.

H

As a result, I won't assume that, but he was present at the hearing. He was president of.

H

The hearings and therefore he didn't know that the board ruled in favor of an extension of that time.

H

I would think, and the terms of that extension I I would think I just don't. I can't say for.

E

Sure, because I'm not randy, okay, let's see one other thing. One thing is missing. Is mr bechtel.

H

In the middle of this conversation, because he seems to be, as mr ahmaday says, this uh says.

H

Well, I told him and so we're dealing with hearsay as opposed to fact. We don't know the full facts.

H

um That leaves me a kind of a quandary here as to what's really going on here.

D

Yeah, why do I feel there's an understory someplace that I'm not hearing right well behind the scenes.

D

Go ahead so so at the zoo meeting, when we were there, I didn't we didn't get like. Yes, you are.

F

Approved no you're not approved, we had to send a letter in explaining why we needed it and um the.

F

The reasoning for it and actually randy, sent it right the day of the zoo meeting. He sent that in.

F

So when we finished the zoom meeting, we never had a yes, no, we had no decision.

A

You didn't receive them should have received a letter with my signature. Oh.

E

Let me say, and that for the extension that's the letter that was sent out on may 27th.

E

With your signature, mr bail, granting the extension and the dates that were granted to him may 27th.

B

What year 2021, may I ask one more question if I- and this is where I get very confused.

D

You recognize the fact that you need an extension. You requested an extension.

D

The time frame, your original time frame expires.

D

Although you did request an extension, but even though you request an.

D

If I'm hearing your testimony correctly, you're saying you never knew, you got an extension.

F

Correct we were, we approved, we went for an approval like to uh to apply for one, but I never.

F

I never knew we got one or we didn't get one. I didn't know where the next step was from there.

F

After the zoom meeting, and that's where I get confused because if I apply for an extension.

D

And I never heard anything, why would I assume everything's just fine.

D

That's counterintuitive. um Now, if you told me you got you recognized the fact you got the extension.

D

And there was some confusion about who does what and so forth.

D

It might make a little bit more sense, although typically in these situations the burden falls.

D

On you to push the process, not the county, to push the process, but the fact that you apply.

D

For an extension and your testimony, is you don't know that you've ever even received the extension.

D

And it was just business as usual. Doesn't make a lot of sense to me. That's just my.

D

Yeah, no, I understand, like I said I was just going at that time. I'd let brandon do a lot of it. I've.

F

Been I was going through a lot of procedures like I said not going into the medical wise, but.

F

You know the last five years: it's been kind of crazy, but I just went in for the tnr and that.

F

Was around the same time when I had difficulty with the um the replacement, so I kind of like.

F

Put everything on a second burn. Let him deal with everything that I thought was getting dealt with.

F

And noticed that nothing was dealt with afterwards. Can we see the um the video of that zoom meeting.

A

Well, all that was was a request. For extension, all right, we have a motion and we've got the letter.

A

With the decision right there, mr boyd's fault right I want to- I wanted to clarify if he was.

H

If mr bechtel was actually on the zoo meeting, when the decision was made for the extension.

A

There's my signature on the letter granting the request.

A

So I can't I can't sign a letter on behalf of this board if it's not for proof.

H

Right, I understand that I get that it's I'm confused as to why a professional engineer would.

H

Drop the ball on so many occasions on this request.

H

At least this in my mind, there's something else going on here: that's not I'm not fully.

G

Understanding, I can't speak to what mr bechdel has going on in his world, but I do know that in.

G

That profession, for the past year, two years that everybody has been.

G

Super slammed working incredible hours, horrific hours, so to speak to that again I can't speak.

I

To any of it, maybe maybe it slipped through the cracks. Maybe it wasn't over. I don't know, but it's.

H

On multiple occasions, though, it's not just once it's the approval, the approval of the extension.

H

Slipped by then, mr voigt's follow-up with them saying the extension has lapsed, he's willing to.

H

Entertain some immediate action at that point that lapses. No, there was there was no.

A

The notice of violation, he didn't, have any choice, but he, though, at that point, the applicants.

A

Nothing could be done at that point short of coming before the board is going to be right.

H

He said anastasia called him cold.

H

Bacto three days after the the lapse of the extension is that right, yes,.

A

At that point, nothing could be done, but.

E

Can I read something that can help you.

E

And let's say this is from our investigation reports, which you have in front of you, like.

E

I say anastasia talked to randy on the 29th of november 2021 and then on the 6th of december.

E

Since we hadn't heard anything or gotten anything, we sent out a void letter on december 1st, stating.

E

That the bza decision was void. There was 30 days to appeal that void decision.

E

We contacted um miss vance on january 3rd and she advised that there had been no appeal or extension.

E

Request for this property and then then, after since there was no request or appeal for that.

E

That's when we sent the nova the notice of violation in january out, stating that he was in.

E

Violation since no appeal had been filed stating that you know the decision was being voided.

E

So the decision was automatically avoided. Since no appeal was filed, then we sent out to notice a.

E

Violation stating that you were in violation, because you don't have the approval anymore,.

E

So that was sent out in january and that's when they did appeal that january 5th letter.

E

um Stating there was no violation and that's what they were appealing today.

E

That's what brought us to today so just so, I understand and I apologize because I've.

G

I didn't process correct this correctly. The first time.

G

So when you said anastasia made, the phone call to mr bachdal on the 29th 29th.

G

During that conversation, I I thought that when you said that.

G

Because it had already expired that it was too late, but it sounds like you were, giving them.

G

Giving him more time well like say the the the site planner, um the extension originally expired,.

E

On november 26th and like say, anastasia had gotten talked to randy on the 29th and said.

G

If you get it to us in the next three days, we're golden, we will work with this.

E

And then, and like I say, the extension request was filed and approved after the meeting and.

E

Then their further actions are taken. That's the original extension request that we heard yes.

E

And then um we told randy and that it'd be.

E

We could give a little more time or go through the bza void. If the void letter was issued, then they.

E

Would have 30 days to appeal that decision, which is what ended up happening? We voided the decision.

E

And there was no appeal of that void and then we sent a notice of violation.

E

And that's when this appeal was filed so one more question: what's your current relationship.

D

With your engineer, is he still, your engineer is as of right now? Yes, I mean I had I've, never we never.

F

Talked spoke about, you know changing engineer because he's been through the whole project.

F

And when's the last time you spoken to two weeks ago, two and a half weeks ago talking.

F

About the the meeting that we have today, how long ago, again about two and a half weeks.

F

I mean he just gave me the last copy the day of the appeal, because I had oh the dale the day that.

F

I sent it in for the bz8 for this bga meeting. He I met him and he gave me that the new copy that.

F

He said this is the final copies. This is all you needed, which is the one, the one that you.

F

Have up here yeah? What is it? Yes? What's the date on that one, mr dixon, it's april 3rd april, 2020.

H

Now the one that was actually handed up here, the rolled up they're all done.

F

I didn't know about the I didn't know that he spoke to um so this is dated april 8, 2020.

H

Almost two years ago right, they had a um apparently a pre-submittal meeting and there's a.

E

Requirement that you have so much time to submit a concept site plan to the planning and zoning.

E

Commission, which had not been done, which they then requested an extension until the end of november.

E

To do that and that extension expired. You know december 1st, as we sent out the void letter.

E

Stating that since nothing had been done, and it hasn't been presented to the planning commission.

E

The decisions void just like say, there's 30 days to appeal that letter.

E

We've received no appeal or miss vance received no appeal.

E

And since she received no appeal, then we sent out the notice of violation letter stating that.

E

Since nothing's been done, there's no appeal been filed or anything you're in violation, and you.

E

Have 30 days to feel my notice of violation is what has brought us to this point today.

A

A

It appears to me, we have two options.

A

We could give a short extension to get the site plan to the planning department.

A

Or we can uphold the notice of violation and then mr amide has to start all over. So, mr dixon, do you.

A

Do you see any other options in in that nope? You and I agree on this.

A

Wait we're in agreement okay, good deal.

A

Mr mr dixon, just let you know on your part, you should be very afraid so.

E

I'm thrilled, um mr chairman, can I make a suggestion? Yes does this? Does this involve.

A

A third option- I don't know if it's a third option or not, but this is just a suggestion. It's I don't.

E

Know if it's my place to make the suggestion or not, um I know mr m dory has put a lot into.

E

The plan that he has presented and everything, apparently there was some miscommunication between.

E

The engineer mr mcdougherty and and my office and the board there's some miscommunication.

E

It may be, and not be up to mr diction to decide this. It may be appropriate to.

E

Overturn my notice violation or you could uphold it and still give them an extension.

E

A short extension to get everything taken, care of and get it before, the planning.

E

Commission and then, if that deadline isn't met, then you know, then you have.

E

Other alternate decisions that you all have to make, and I won't make a suggestion on that.

A

Okay, board members, and- and I'm not closing this is unusual- I'm not closing testimony because.

A

As we have discussions here among the board members, I want to be able to ask additional.

A

Questions can we do that, mr dixon, you can do that, but it seems to me that his suggestion puts you.

B

Back at the same two, two options that you gave they're the same two options, because one of the.

B

Options that deals with any option that deals with an extension of more than one year could.

B

Be a possible problem. However: you get there that can be that's a potential problem, but you can do.

B

It you're the board, I'm thinking six months before. Maybe I didn't explain my suggestion clear enough.

E

Basically, what I was saying is that the board upheld the notice of violation, however, gave a.

E

Maybe three months extension to get something done before the commission before my notice.

E

Of violation actually goes into effect, and then you know, a final decision would have to be made.

E

I don't know if that's legal or not mr dixon say it again. uh If the board upheld.

E

My notice of violation, however, suspended the enforcement of it for up to maybe.

E

Three months to give mr anderson and randy time to get it in front of the planning commission.

E

So they don't have to start all over again and if nothing's done within that three months, then.

B

We can say well sorry yeah you're here for the notice of violation you can, you can approve it.

B

Or not, but I don't know that that gets you then to an automatic extension from november 26th. Just.

B

Because you do that, I don't know, I don't know what cut what okay! You can do that with the notice of.

B

Violation, what gets you from november 26 to the day, um you can see your right hand. This is the.

B

First time that's right because not theoretically he doesn't, he doesn't have approval for all that.

B

Time so you got to do something out. Take another action to get to that, because all you do is.

B

Find whatever find in favor of or against his notice of violation, that has nothing to do with.

B

The november 26 cutoff you've got to do something to deal with that too. Mr bail, may I say something.

E

Else please yeah and women did any anything more to add there. No okay, okay, the original extension.

E

That they had asked for was for six months. It was not for a total of one year, which is what.

E

They would be entitled to at that time when they had asked for the original extension, so.

E

Maybe, in my opinion, there's maybe still six months of an extension that you can grant.

E

That's up to mr dixon to decide, but that's what I'm kind of basing you know.

I

November 26th was his original cutoff. He had another six months.

E

Onto that, it would still be until what may 26th or somewhere like that, if he was given.

E

Had been given a full year extension, he wouldn't be in this predicament today.

E

And but that was that that was not something we imposed. That was something that was requested.

A

And we agreed to correct and for whatever reason it didn't occur right, let's see, I'm.

E

Just trying to give options for throwing more mud in the water well, I would think at a point.

D

In time, even though they asked for six months prior to the exploration six months, they could.

D

Have amended it yeah, I I that would have been an additional extension that would have been an.

D

Amended extension, as opposed to a totally separate extent, I mean that's semantical, but perhaps true.

A

Okay, mr amadeus you've been left out of the conversation for the last 10 minutes.

A

Do you have anything to add, I'm actually confused. So I understand what jay was saying.

F

So basically he was saying getting a second extension from november.

F

For six months- and that would give me the year that I was accepted- we can't go retroactive.

A

Okay, we can only go from this day forward. I guess I need a little more explain. You know that I don't.

F

I don't understand it okay, so if we give a 60 or a 90-day extension from it's, a reprieve reprieve.

E

That's what I would suggest fight plan submittal to the planning department.

A

And suspend the formal notice of violation until that time period. But after that 60 or 90 days.

A

Then that would then that would be back in play correct, but based on what mr dickson.

G

Said don't we have to like overturn your notice of violations so that they're confusing them.

G

You're growing another extension right right.

A

But so that there is a notice of formal, there is a formal notice of violation.

A

If this plan doesn't get submitted at the end of the time period, we do that's. That's the most.

B

His head's hurting.

E

Mr dixon he's the attorney, not I, um but if, if you upheld the notice of violation, however,.

E

Suspended the enforcement of it for 60 or 90 days and gave him a chance to get it into the.

E

Planning, commission, I don't know if that's given him another extent, it's given him an.

E

Extension on the notice of violation: it's not giving him an extension on the.

E

Bca's approval letter, it's just giving him another 60 or 90 days. Whatever you decide the opportunity.

E

Before I start enforcing my notice of violation to get something started with the planning commission.

B

Well, then, why can't the planning commission come back and say that's exactly what I was doing.

E

They're, not the only ones that are going to deal with this.

E

That is a possibility. I'm not going to read things too and they can say you're late.

B

We're not going to hear this, and that's that's not possibility that I can speak to because I have.

E

I have no influence over planning a zoning commission. That's that would be totally up.

E

To them they may say that, but I think what I'm offering is an opportunity, at least maybe to.

E

Save the work that's been put into the project and maybe get it back on track again on the flip.

D

Side of the equation, what could also be done? Is we uphold if and correctly from wrong? We can uphold.

D

The decision of the zoning administrator, we can suspend enforcement with that for a period of time.

D

That gives the gives the applicant the opportunity to reapply for the storage yard, and you can do it.

D

Again, it just has to start from scratch and that's not extending his current. That's not.

D

That's not extending his current approval. Yes, I don't understand. That's he's asking for more time.

B

And it's not extending his approval. No because because we're we're not when we're suspending the.

D

Enforcement of it for a period of time, but he has to go back through the process again and reapply.

D

So we're not really extending his approval one way, the other we're just suspending the enforcement.

D

But the only the only entity that can that can push him past november 26 2021.

B

Is are you the board of zoning appeals? Nobody else can push him past that. So, if you don't do it.

B

Nobody else can do anything about it. Well, let me ask you this, then, if I so, I understand the entire.

D

Process, theoretically, his his clock stopped ticking at the end of november. Yes, okay, the.

D

And his only option at that time, looking in the purest standpoint is the reapplying the best.

D

Start going back through the process again, yes, he can always go back and reapp. Oh sure, well, wait.

B

uh Does he have to wait any period of time only if it was only if the approval was denied? Do you have.

E

To wait a minute two years before reapplying! So yes and that's why I'm saying you could suspend.

D

Enforcement of the violation, okay, enforcement of the violation, the violation exists, but you.

D

Give him the opportunity to reapply and go back through the process, given he has all the documents.

D

And everything he needs to reapply to the bza for approval of a storage yard if he get if he can get.

D

It in within that time, frame of enforcement of a zoning violation then he's good to go.

B

He's not good to go. I don't want to leave that impression, but what I'm saying is he well? He can.

B

Always reapply right, but to reapply means he's got to get. We got to go through another whole hearing.

B

That's right now having whether his clock tip is theoretically, he has to go through it right now.

D

That's right, his clock stopped ticking at the end of november right so he'd have to.

B

Go through another whole hearing about you know we gotta, you know advertise and.

B

Do all that and hold another hearing and yeah? This is what speaking to the board. This is my.

D

Problem with the case, okay, you have an extension requested, the testimony from.

D

From the gentleman is, you know him too one way or the other, and I'm not trying to be flipping.

D

The way I say that if I fall for an extension, I certainly be on top of knowing what happened there.

D

Then you have the date. So what happened in those six months, then you had the clock, stopped ticking.

D

In november and they get contacted and said, you have 30 days to appeal and where did that go.

D

I mean I don't know what happened to that either and then they get to notice the violation and the.

D

Response is, I don't know how not either I got it a month later, I'm just saying it just you know we.

D

Have time frames and I'm not a real stickler for this? You know I don't go nuts on this stuff, but.

D

If we're not going to enforce the timelines and the extended opportunities that have been here.

D

As far as addressing responses to timelines, and why do we have timelines at all.

A

Well, and the other thing I'm questioning now is why, in the world didn't wasn't requested of one.

A

Year extension, but it was because that's that has been the board's standard, yeah.

A

The whole thing just is awkward yeah. Well I I, I still think if we need to uphold the decision.

A

Of the zoning administrator and suspend the enforcement of the form alertness violation.

A

For a given time period, whether it's 30 days, 60 days, 90 days, 30 days, I think, is way too short.

B

Now um just say since I've I've I've gotten a second here, that uh you might be overstepping what.

B

Your authority is, you, can reverse modify you, you are upholding a decision and then you're saying.

B

But we don't want you so now. You're directing the zoning administrator don't enforce it for.

B

Three months that that's that's what you're saying whether you have that authority, I'm.

A

Not sure so, in order to do this, then that we we find that the so we would find against the the.

A

Notice of violation and give 90 to a time period to get this approved, we can't we cannot.

A

Suspend the enforcement of the notice of violation. I think that's a step too far.

A

Mr chairman, I'd like to make some comments that I made yeah. Okay go ahead.

H

um Let me just say: I think it's a step too far, but you're the board. You can do it.

A

Could you defend that in court? No? Well, I don't know, I'm not sure.

H

Looking at the information that's being presented to us, there are too many inconsistencies. There's.

H

Been no effort made to actually make any progress on this. I would support that.

H

Your zoning administrator has gone through this in great detail and I would support what he has put.

H

Forward that is in violation, if you keep dancing around it and trying to you know.

H

This is not this project's not going to go forward.

H

You know every time you poke the frog. Something happens a little bit, maybe maybe not.

H

But there are too many instances of letters claimed not to be delivered. There's this plan.

H

That's two years old, already, that's not being delivered supposedly the final plan there's just.

H

Too many things that I see from my point of view, in my opinion, that it's just not moving forward.

H

And that the zoning administrator was correct and saying this in violation, you're done.

G

I mean, but that's not recognizing that. Yes, that was the letter that mr roy had to send.

G

That is not what he recommended here this morning. He was, he was giving us an exit round this morning.

G

He's suggesting that that, like I said it's I mean even if you uphold the notice of violation.

E

Basically, what we'll do is we'll give mr inventory time to remove the stuff from the property.

E

It doesn't say he can't reapply to the board for that same approval and.

E

If he reapplies to the board, it's the same approval and that would stop any further.

E

Enforcement action until the board hears and makes that decision.

F

Can I say something um so my computer, any any questions of what mr boyd comments.

G

So, just so um good good, christopher, so you're suggesting we uphold the violation and that a new.

G

Application is filed and because a new application has been filed, it would preclude any further.

E

Enforcement further by you, while it has time to go through the process again, presumably since.

G

The approval was granted the first time it would be granted again. That's why I was speaking now.

H

It's cleaner, you don't have to you, know, have, and they forgot this- that the next thing and.

H

It makes it cleaner, you're upholding the decision of the administrator. That's it.

F

Can I say something now, but it also delays the process go ahead. um Now, I'm not trying.

F

To like so so, my only my defense of it is. I bought this property, I'm a young kid. This is.

F

One of my investments- I bought this property with the reasoning of this bza meeting going.

F

Through the first time I fought for it, I mean it was a battle. I put a lot of money in this place.

F

I cleaned it up. I don't know if you guys remember what it looked like to what it looks like now.

F

I'm not saying that I didn't do mistakes. I should have been on a lot more stuff. I agree.

F

Life was life, I can't take it back. We had covet, we had my accidents, we had difficulties in the road.

F

My only concern is, if I go back from here and redo this, and I don't have a problem. Redoing.

F

Going through the hoops is, what happens? It's not a guarantee. What happens if they say no.

F

Then I just lost five years and my investment and everything down the drain. You can pretty.

F

Much put me in bankruptcy because that property is no good to me. If I go through the violation.

F

I have to remove my equipment, my material and I got to find somewhere else to put this stuff.

F

We're already in a bad situation with the environment of you know the work.

F

Workplace is hard to get work it's hard to make money nowadays.

F

So you're just opening up a can of worms for a small business owner that I'm not making an excuse.

F

But I'm just giving you my opinion on where I'm at with this investment, this investment, this property.

F

I'm willing to do whatever I can, but I'm showing you that, yes, I messed up I'll. Take the blame.

F

On that I delayed a lot, but there was a lot of loopholes in it that I didn't get a lot of letters.

F

You know me and randy did not have the best communication, um but I definitely put a lot of.

F

Effort and heart in this property to make it look better and to continue my business and growing.

F

I mean that's all I mean that's all I got mr simmons, you have been noticeably quiet.

A

In all of this, would you like to add to this conversation? I'd only make it more confusing. No.

H

I don't want to add: okay I'll totally, give you the opportunity. I appreciate that.

A

We have six options on the table and none of them. None of them are palatable.

A

Yeah, I'm equally frustrated. I think it's.

G

Very compelling when mr boyd gives us probably what he thinks is the best option.

D

What's the time frame for applying you said, there's no limit of when a person can reapply.

D

How, let's take the problem, how long does the process take to get to the bca okay, he wouldn't.

A

Be able to get on the agenda until the may meeting if he went upstairs with joe at this point and.

A

There's a two-year if they're turned down by this board, there's a two-year waiting period.

A

But this was an approval, so he doesn't have that.

A

That clock to go by so here's a question like with what you're suggesting with maybe a new hearing.

G

New hearings should or any hearing should be unbiased, correct.

G

I don't know that there's a person sitting on this board right now that doesn't have a bias.

G

Towards this case, so what happens? If I feel like the first hearing, there were a lot of opposition.

G

Am I remembering that correctly there was.

A

There was opposition from neighbors, yes, maybe not a lot, maybe so my apologies. I.

G

Don't remember specifically, so what happens if, if we say this is the route you have to go.

G

We have a lot of opposition and we've already no guarantee it's a brand new hearing, and you know.

B

You got to look at the evidence that you hear at the hearing recognizing there's no guarantee.

G

But but we also understand based based on what we're trying to allow him to accomplish yeah.

D

I mean it isn't like we don't want him to be successful. That's not the intent here at all.

D

So we're wrestling with two things: trying to be overly fair to the client or do the.

D

To the appellant, as well as trying to abide by what the rules are and what the law is and.

D

It seems to me the easiest option would be to extend the to extend the time and.

D

Approval for the full year, but then again that flies in the face of one extension.

D

um You know so we set the precedent there and- and I think we can, we can.

A

So that we don't set precedent, we can say we can, in our reasons, say that mr amidae has had.

A

Several surgeries that have impacted his ability to run his business and the other thing is. We are.

A

In coveted times we're in year three so unique times, yes- and I don't want to blame everything.

A

On covid, and but what I'm saying is, I think that they would both of those both of those um um there.

D

Actually did circumstances yeah, yeah extenuating circumstances that we wouldn't normally do.

A

Something if we, I don't feel we need to to be that liberal with a second extension, except that there.

A

Is extenuating circumstances, and I would say that these this this has extenuating circumstances in.

A

Code number two and number one would be would be, mr amides and six months from the date of the last.

D

Of ex that's that's that's what I'm sitting here saying. Why was it only six if we, if it was one.

A

Year we wouldn't be sitting here right, gotcha. Well, let me make a recommendation. Please please.

B

Please start your discussion just go ahead and grant the one-year extension from the.

B

November 26 2021. right, so you can give that that sounds like the most logical thing to do.

D

And I think there are actually in circumstances. You know, I think it doesn't really set a precedent.

D

Per se, but I would tag that with for the life of me, I don't understand all the lack of activity.

D

When opportunity was presented to have the activity you had a professional working with you.

D

You know that you know that I'm just that whole situation, just as I'm is discomforting to me.

D

Why that is because we we're you know there are rules, there are timelines.

D

They're there for a reason, and we, if we dance around all the time, then why even happen.

B

Something if somebody can challenge it, but that's that's my recommendation. Just go ahead.

B

Overturn his notice of violation and then I'll I'll put in the decision.

B

That we you're extending this is this will be an extension hearing too. That.

B

You're extending it for a year from november 26 2021 to november 25th, 24th.

E

Mr dixon, could I add something to that. Please yeah you had said um creating a.

E

One-Year extension until november of this year, my recommendation was just making an extension.

E

Of the previous extension for another six months, instead of giving another whole year that way.

E

We're not putting it off too far in the future. What your your recommendation is to extend. Okay,.

E

My recommendation, if to follow along what you were saying, is that the board approved.

E

An extension request of the original extension from six months to a full year.

E

Instead of giving an additional full year, what you're basically doing is saying.

E

Okay, we're recognizing that six months may not have been enough, we'll extend it to.

E

That's may 26th or something six months past.

B

Everything's going to be done, all he has to do is apply to them.

B

This has to be delivered in the planning department.

E

They have to make a concept plan uh presentation to the planning and zoning commission.

E

And that's that's the time limit once you make that concept plan and get it approved by the.

E

Planning, commission, then there's necessarily not a time limit on getting everything else.

E

Approved so this is not an impact, but if this, if that's dated 2020, why didn't they? Why didn't that.

E

I'm not making excuses for anybody. You know, you know, everybody's, like said everybody's busy and.

E

Everything but like I say if you do, that for an additional six months from november 26th.

E

Which was the original extension if you go for another six months from that date,.

E

You're, giving him the full year that he could have been eligible for when he was asked for the original extension. Well, it's up to the board. You can make it.

E

And I'm just saying that that sets a date deadline, we're not questioning it.

H

Farther I'm not buying the cobit reason, because the uh we're already in covert times.

H

When this approval was made for the six-month extension, so that should go off the table.

H

I just I don't agree with it. I just I think the administrator's.

H

Ruling should be upheld, straightforward, as is you know, the rules of the rules. That's it.

A

Okay, we heard all the testimony guys that we've heard everything.

A

Okay, the hearing record of this case is now closed in accordance with the.

A

Open meetings, actor maryland, the board will now consider the case board members.

A

I don't have anything else, I'm thinking.

A

I can't make a motion to anybody. I will, unless somebody else wants to knock yourself out.

G

In case number, six three eight three: I.

G

Move that we overturn the zoning administrator's decision and amend our extension that we granted.

G

In may of 2021 to reflect 12 months as com pair to the six months, which was originally granted.

G

A

Do I have a second on the motion.

D

I suck at it okay, mr dixon, do you we're good with that motion.

A

We haven't overstepped. Our bounds is that I understand it. I see what you want to do.

B

Okay and we've already talked about it- okay, very good! I just wanted to just wanted you to let it.

A

Get another bite of the apple there: okay, any further discussion on the motion.

A

Seeing none all those in favor, aye aye, all opposed. No okay motion carries four to one.

A

Our oral decision will become final upon a written decision which will be issued within.

A

30 days, unless otherwise extended by this board, and the board's decision uh may be appealed by.

A

Filing a petition for judicial review with the clerk of the circuit court of carroll, county.

A

In accordance with the provisions of chapter 200, title vii of the maryland rules of procedure, the.

A

Appeal must be filed within 30 days of the date of the board's written decision. Thank you very.

A

Much this hearing is adjourned. The meeting isn't adjourned, but this hearing is the journal.

A

Yeah here you go mr amadeus, so just so, I'm still with you! So am I getting to may.

F

Yeah, so I have to get this in yeah. No, you get until november 25th 2022 yeah.

I

May 26th we changed the original approval extension from six months to one year.

D

Yeah he's got to get that playing department by may 26th, so six is six months from november 26th.

B

Right, yeah, whatever it is, it's it's one. We went back to the original date of the original.

D

Approval and it changed it from six months to one year, so whatever that is, is what it is.

D

Yeah, why well, no I'm confused! Why wouldn't that be november, 25th 2022 that would be 18 months yeah. It.

G

Expired like his six months, so we went back and and did a year from the original extension I'm.

D

Sorry, I used the word approval versus extension original yeah, so it was may so. We gave him a.

G

Total of one year from last may, okay, I guess I'll look that up, because I just did that yeah. I would.

G

Like to get moving on that like immediately, thank you sorry to make your job so hard.

A

Thank you for your input, yeah. Thank you. Thank you, mr everday. Thank you. Okay. According to mr dickson.

D

Who it has no hair, love yeah? We we have to do as we normally as we normally do this time of year.

A

uh Election of officers, so I will open up the floor to the chairman. You are the.

E

Chairman yeah, you are the chairman, yeah. Well any nominations for chairman: you you you! You.

A

Okay, all in favor go ahead all in favor.

A

Motion carries four to one four to one four to one: okay, vice chair presently, our vice chair.

A

Is seated to my left continue? Okay, do we have a second who is it he said? That's my thought.

D

You looked at me. I was trying to continue the nation. Okay, all those in favor, aye, aye, all opposed.

A

Motion carries so, it looks like we have a continuation of the.

A

Same chair and vice chair, very good and a shout out to matthew today for his great job.