Carroll County, MD Carroll County Board of Zoning Appeals, 30 Aug 2022

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From YouTube: Board of Zoning Appeals, August 30, 2022

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I'm going to call the board of zoning appeals meeting to order here this morning and our first.

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Case is case number 6409 before I ask mr dixon to introduce the file there's a couple of things.

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That we need to make sure that we do today make sure you turn off all your electronic devices. So.

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That they don't interrupt. The recording of this hearing make sure that you exit at the same door.

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As what you came in so that at closing time today, they're not running around the building trying to.

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Locate you, it looks like everybody got the memo to sign in on the clipboard on the side. If you.

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Haven't done that take an opportunity to do that so with that those housekeeping details, mr dixon.

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Could you introduce the file for us, please all right case 6409 a request for a conditional use.

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For a country and an event facility, the site is located at 1733, wedington farm drive, westminster.

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Maryland on property zone, a agricultural district in election district, four by bat farms, llc in care.

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Of kurt wedekind code of public local laws and ordinances, sections 158.070 e 1t and 158.071 d7, a.

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Through g site visit is tentatively scheduled for wednesday august 17 2022 at approximately 9 15 a.m.

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In the fall of this matter, we have the following documents:.

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A email from maureen copeland uh to the board she's writing regarding a conditional use hearing.

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I'm unable to to attend the hearing tomorrow and would like to comment.

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About the proposed in an event facility, if I may.

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To summarize, I do not feel that this location is appropriate to the proposed yeast.

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There is an email from a.

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Roseanne and william shuler.

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Please note that our family votes no to this variance, that's the end of it.

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There is an email from an eric schuler.

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Please let me know how I can remotely vote against this.

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Property being able to conduct these activities.

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If you have not been down to don avenue in the last week, you will.

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See every home has a sign in their front yard. Contesting this there's an email from.

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Larry alvarez.

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August 17 2022.

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He included a video.

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He wants, he wants to voice his opposition to the conditional approval they are seeking use for.

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There are the site minutes for the case.

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There is a response to joe vance's request to various state and local agencies from thomas.

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Harris permits and inspections his comments, the tent, will require a temporary tent permit. Each.

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Year of use with the use of temporary restroom facilities, the site would be limited to 12.

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Events per year, change of use permits will be required for all structures used for the events.

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And by the public, the site shall comply with the maryland accessibility code signed thomas harris.

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Foreign august 3rd 2022 letter from linda d, eisenberg secretary to the planning commission.

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To the board, after having reviewed the information contained in the attached analysis, the facts as.

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Presented in the application, the relevant portions of the plan and in accordance with the provision.

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Set forth in the land use article, this condition to use requests if granted is consistent with the.

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Policies: timing of the implementation of the plan, timing of development, timing of rezoning.

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Development patterns, land uses and densities or intensities, there's august 3rd 2022 memo from.

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Abigail rogers to the planning technician. The above reference bza case has been reviewed for.

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Consistency with the policies and recommendations contained in the 2014 carroll county master plan.

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As amended in 2019, the carroll county, water and sewer master plan and other functional plans, the.

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Staff, finding is that this request is consistent with the 2014 carroll county comprehensive plan, as.

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Amended in 2019 and would not have an adverse effect on the current use of the property.

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There's a notice for this hearing august 1st 2022 in the newspaper. There is a letter from.

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Scott jarvins um see august 3rd 2022.

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He has concerns and would say no to the additional expansion and proposed use of the property located.

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At 1733 1733 wedington farm drive, although locally the more accurate address would be.

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634 wilmot ridge road. I do not understand the reason for the discrepancy or inconsistency.

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Between the described addresses, there's a gate that prohibits access to the property.

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You've noticed an increase in large truck traffic as the and there has a number of questions he has.

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There is a response to joe vance's request to various state and local agencies from.

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Janet o'meara bureau chief resource management comments, a site plan should be required to address numerous environmental requirements.

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There is a response to joe vance's request of air state local agencies from laura mateus bureau.

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Chief development review, a site plan will be required in accordance with chapter 155.

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There is a response to joe vance's request from jp smith, jr program manager, agland, preservation,.

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Program this office has no comments at this time. This property is not in ag preservation.

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Hearing notice was posted july 25th 2022 by scott robinson zoning inspector.

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There is a response to joe vance's request of.

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Air state and local agencies from jay voigt zoning administrator no comment.

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And then there's the application for conditional use for country inn and event facility.

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There is a july 8 2022 letter from kelly schaefer miller to the board.

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Plan from development design consultants, I would ask that the file be entered in evidence. Do we.

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Have a motion to enter the following evidence, so moved seconded been moving second to enter the.

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Follow-On to evidence all in favor aye all right, we will go ahead and move the file into evidence.

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Of there's a lot of new faces in the audience, and let me attempt at the end of the day I guarantee.

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You you understand our process. I will attempt to describe the process to you before we get.

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Started, I'm assuming that ms miller is the legal counsel for the applicant here today.

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She will have the opportunity to make opening statements, uh go ahead and call witnesses at.

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The end of each witness's testimony you will have the opportunity to go to the microphone.

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And ask that witnesses pay attention. Ask that witness questions of their testimony.

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At a later point in those hearing, you will have the opportunity to give your own testimony so.

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Again, it'll be questions of their testimony. Only let's get that perfectly clear. um I'm assuming ms.

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Miller will have more than one. uh um You only have one witness okay, so we have one witness.

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um And with with that, then uh you will then after she has concluded her case, then you will.

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Have the opportunity to go to the microphone and when you go to the microphone, I want you.

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To give your name address and occupation and spell for the record your last name and then.

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You can give your own testimony and then ms miller, and then also the the board here, will.

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Have the opportunity to ask you questions of your testimony so before we get started um if.

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You plan on testifying here today. Could you please stand and raise your right hand and take the oath.

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So that would be the rest of you are going to be spectators. Come on now.

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Okay, raise your right hand. Please do you swear or firm under the penalties of perjury, that the.

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Testimony you're about to give is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth very good.

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You can be seated just here for informational purposes. Mr chairman, okay, very good, mr boyd.

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Sir, there are chairs up here that you could.

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Okay, very good.

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Can you hear me better now, okay, okay, ms miller, thank you good morning. I will also try to speak.

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Up, but I welcome if anybody is unable to hear me um just let us know good morning, kelly schaefer.

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Miller, 73 east main street westminster maryland 21157, I'm here today on behalf of the applicant.

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Kurt wedekind and bat farms llc. I appreciate mr dixon's introduction of the file we are here.

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Today, requesting conditional use approval for a country in an event facility at this property.

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As you all are aware, that is the terminology of the code, and I I think in in some instances.

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It leads to a misconception of what the actual request is, but you will hear testimony from my.

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Client, today that he is requesting a cap of 12 events per year be placed on today's requested.

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Approval for any events, this property as you're, also aware, because you conducted a site visit.

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Is approximately 131 acres, so it is an active farm. It is zoned, agriculturally bat farms, llc.

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Is a family entity I have mr wedekind with me to my left, but also his son and daughter are part.

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Of part of bat farms llc and they all live on the property. It's a family, family occupied property, so.

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um I I will the only witness that I will be calling today is mr kurt wedekind. So with.

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That introduction, I will get started with his testimony if that's okay, with the board.

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You can proceed. Thank you, mr wedekind. Please be mindful when you testify that these microphones.

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Pick up but do not make it louder for those in the audience. So please make sure that you're speaking.

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Up so that everyone can hear um mr watikin, can you please state your name, spelling your last name and.

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Your address for the record yep, it's michael kurt, wedekind w-e-d-e-k-I-n-d, it's 1733 wedding conform.

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Drive westminster maryland, mr watikin, can you just in a few sentences, tell the board a little.

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Bit about yourself, what do you do um yeah? So my wife and I in 87 started a landscaping business.

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My daughter is running that business and she's been running it for the last five years.

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We bought our first piece of property in carroll county in 2000 2001, something like.

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That we moved our business from ellicott city to carroll county in at that time um we bought.

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The farm in october of 19. we've lived on the farm since december of 20 since december of 21.

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So the business that you just spoke to the landscaping business is that or is that not.

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Operated at this location, it is not it's operated in south carroll, so today you have applied for.

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A country in and event uh facility, correct, yes, and you just stated that you brought bought this.

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Property in 2019 is that accurate? Yes, how many acres approximately is this property 131, okay,.

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Are you aware of the zoning classification for this property? Yes, and what is that agricultural.

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Bye for you to look at.

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I have handed all the members of the board and mr dixon um a copy of several intended.

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Exhibits- all of which are marked, I will ask that they be entered appropriately throughout.

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The hearing I do have, I should have- should have made bigger ones or more copies, but I do.

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Have one extra copy that is right here, that's available for anyone else to look at as well.

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um I will ask that they be entered throughout the testimony, but I wanted to give them all to you.

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In advance so that you have them for your review, mr wadakind, I'm asking you to look at applicants.

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Exhibit one which is the first page there is that, does that appear to your best knowledge.

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To be a copy of the zoning map, indicating your property, yes, and does that accurately depict.

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The property as an agricultural district, it does okay. Okay, I would like to ask that that be entered.

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As applicants exhibit one, we will accept that as applicants exhibit number one. Thank you, mr rudiken.

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When you purchase the property, was it improved? Did it have structures a house anything on it? No.

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Since you purchased the property, what have you done to improve the property.

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um Driveway electric well septic house barn, fencing for animals.

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Do you and your family reside in the house on the property we do and are you actively.

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Farming, the property we are. Is it your intent to continue to reside in this home? It is, it is.

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Is it also your intent to continue the active farming operation at this property? Yes, okay,.

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The in mr dixon's introduction of the file he pointed out the plan that accompanied.

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Our application is that what you're looking at on the table there? Yes, okay, now, that plan has.

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The ddc label on it, but who actually prepared the portion related to this hearing here today.

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Me, okay, so you used a previous drawing from ddc and overlaid. The requests here today on.

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To that, is that accurate? Yes, okay, are you familiar with preparing and or looking at.

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Plans reviewing plans like this, I am. Can you explain that sure um education wise I I did.

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Some of that work, and then we've been either a customer or a contractor with plans like this.

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The opportunity to take to take the surrounding area of your.

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Property and the zoning and the natural features of the surrounding area. I did.

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Can you please just generally describe to us the surrounding area.

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um Most of the area around us is uh our farms, I think the smallest farm we have on the northeast.

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And west side is like 18 acres, the largest, I think, is 130 or so, and then we have several six.

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Or so houses on the south side that butt up to the property? So I'm going to ask you to turn to well.

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Actually, I'm jumping the gun here, but I'm going to ask you to turn to. First. Applicants exhibit two.

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um Is that a copy just of the same map just showing the kind of actual earth aerial of the.

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Property, yes, okay, and does that accurately show where your property is on that map it does? I would.

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Like to ask that applicants exhibit to aerial map be entered, we will accept that into evidence.

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Mr waterkin, I'm I'm going to turn and show you. Applicants exhibit three okay.

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To the best of your knowledge is that a map showing the surrounding agricultural.

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Preservation easements on others properties. It is okay yeah. I would ask that applicants.

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Exhibit 3 be entered as well, and we will accept that into evidence.

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Can you please describe the screening that is present existing today on your.

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Property that buffers or shields your property from any surrounding properties.

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um In particular, the southern end, um which is where there's the six or seven houses, are there's.

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About a 27, acre wooded area that buffers between um us and them and then there's another 20 acres.

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Of field, and then our house sits behind that, and then the wedding site is is further away than that.

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Of the whole area but specific to your property and how that impacts, your property.

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Yeah, it's a carroll county, rolling hills. I think the elevation changed.

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Just ballparks probably 60 feet from any swale to any hilltop.

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You heard me state in my introduction that your request here today is for a.

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Maximum of 12 events per year is that accurate? Yes, are you asking that this.

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Board place a condition on today's requested approval to that effect. Yes,.

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Can you just generally explain the vision of this request? What what brought you to make this request.

D

Well, excuse me, my oldest got married at the farm uh two octobers ago and since then, we've had some.

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Family members ask us if we can do that and um just thought: we'd come and get permission to.

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See if we can do it so is it accurate? Would it be accurate to say that the request is for events of.

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Any natural nature some may be weddings, some, maybe baby showers, some maybe bridal showers. That's.

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Right with this approval facilitate the financial continuance of the farm as well. Yes, now you.

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Submitted this drawing where I submitted it with the application, the drawing is to your left, does.

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The board have we only have big copies, so you have one okay, we're going to walk through the specifics.

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Of that, so I have I'll lay a separate one out down here. If anybody needs to look at it as well.

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You are looking at the drawing correct. Yes, can you explain to us how how your property.

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Is accessed uh off of walmart ridge there's a private or a driveway that goes back. Okay are.

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You aware and well I get actually let me ask you before the road becomes wilmot ridge is.

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It the road named something different. It is okay. What is that way to conform right? Well, not yours.

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Gone okay, so there's don avenue that leads into wilmot ridge. Is that accurate? Yes, okay? Are you.

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Aware of whether don avenue and wilmot ridge are county owned and maintained roads as far.

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As I know, I'm going to ask that you take a look at applicants, exhibit four there's two pages to this.

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To the best of your knowledge, does that appear to be the list of county roads? Yes, and does that.

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Indicate that don and wilmot ridge are both county roads, yes, ma'am. Okay, I would like to ask that.

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Applicants exhibit 4 be entered. We will accept that into evidence. Thank you. So, mr water, can you.

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Stated that your entrance onto your property is a private access. Is that accurate? That is okay,.

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So there's it does not share an access with any other homes or any other uses. It does not. Okay,.

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Is there a gate at the entrance of your property? There is, would it be your proposal.

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And intent so that that gate would remain open during any scheduled event. Yes, okay.

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Okay along the driveway, is there room for people to pass if they should need to if.

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There was one car coming in and somebody needed to be leaving. Is there an opportunity for our.

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um For a pull-off into the grass, several I am going to uh well, can you.

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Try to verbally indicate that the board has the drawing in front of them as well on the plan. What.

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Area, do you propose cars to be parked in uh a we call it field 12.? Okay. So I'm going to turn you to.

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And can you kind of just again for everybody's sake, who's not perhaps looking at the drawing.

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When, when we enter the driveway, where is area a uh it's halfway down on the left-hand side on.

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The west side, and what is that now just a field: we have cattle in it, okay, so it's a field. I am going.

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To turn you to applicants, exhibits, 5a and 5b are those photographs of that field. Now they are okay.

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Okay, so now moving on to.

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Well, let me let me back up here one quick second: is it your intent to maintain that area as grass.

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It is failed. Okay, will you allow any parking to be on the public, road, wilmot ridge or don avenue? No.

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Looking at the drawing again section b, that is labeled in the notes section as.

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A potential future barn site is there currently anything there? No, it's wooded.

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Is that an area where you would potentially put a a barn that would be part of this use.

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At some point in the future, at some point, if that occurs, do you understand that that.

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Would need to go through a permitting process in compliance with this use. I do.

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So currently there is no structure in section b that exists for this use, but in the future you.

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Might consider constructing an actual building for people to have as an indoor area correct? Yes, okay,.

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Section c on the plan.

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What is well, the note section on the plan indicates section c, as the country in an area.

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Cattle and picture area is that where your house is yeah, yes, okay, and is it your intent to hold a.

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Room for rent available within the existing house. Yes, okay, do you anticipate that that would be.

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Something that could be utilized predominantly by people who are using the facility for events. Yes,.

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Section d or area d on the plan is an outdoor area. Is that accurate? That is okay,.

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I am going to show you well actually did I ask I'm sorry if I did not I'm going to.

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Ask that applicants exhibits, 5a and 5b be entered. Please we'll accept those into evidence. Thank you.

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I'm going to turn you, mr wedican to applicants, exhibit 6a and 6b. Okay are those photographs.

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Of the area shown on on the plan as area d, they are okay, okay, so that is an existing field area.

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Correct, yes, is it your intent that that will maintain an existing field area? It is okay,.

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And that is the area where you would allow someone to utilize for an event. Is that accurate? Yes,.

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So that is where any uh temporary tent would be put up. Is that accurate? It is.

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Will you be providing permanent restroom facilities or will you.

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Require uh guests to hire a porta pot service yeah the porta pot.

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How will guests access this site.

D

After parking, then, we have golf carts that we use to get from a to b, a to d.

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Is this what you did for your daughter's wedding as well? It is okay, so that would.

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Be your intent to for any guests or anyone to be transported or escorted. If you will from area a.

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Where they will park to area d, where the actual event would occur, is that accurate? It is okay.

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Okay, have you considered any potential events where.

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Someone wanted to provide food and or alcohol, yes,.

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Have you thought about how you will regulate that a licensed caterer, so does that mean that you will.

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Require anyone utilizing the space to have any alcohol served through a licensed caterer? Yes, okay,.

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Will you allow music to be played? Yes, you understand that there is a carroll county.

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Noise ordinance that governs any noise, not just for this use but anyone's anyone's property.

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Correct, I do, and you understand that you are subject to that, as well as the testimony of.

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Today's hearing correct yes, okay, have you considered having a a an event end time.

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um Where any music and any activity would cease? Yes, okay, what time have you thought.

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Of for that 10 o'clock, okay, so would it be fair to say that after a 10 o'clock, music and that.

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People would then be cleaning up, getting ready and then exiting the site. Yes, okay,.

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Have you considered a number of attendees that you would be comfortable with coming.

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To this site, yes, and what number have you come up with uh 150 to 200.

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And you believe that this can accommodate that amount of people. We do.

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Now that number contemplates a higher use type of event. Is it fair to say that there could be.

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Several events that you would agree to hosts that would be significantly less.

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Than that maximum number, yes, will you have a member of your family present during every.

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Event, yes, in fact, you will still be living in the house. Correct! Yes, okay, you heard well it.

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The request here today was made because you considered this use and you called me, and I.

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Told you this is what we needed to do. Is that accurate? It is okay, so there to your knowledge,.

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There was no zoning complaint, there was no zoning investigation that initiated this application. None.

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Have you had the opportunity to take a look at the.

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Ag district and the zoning code for the ag district.

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Is it your understanding that a religious establishment is.

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Allowed in the agricultural district, yes.

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And with that type of use, there could be many.

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Events associated with that do you think, that's a fair statement. It is.

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Do you anticipate and all of you you've testified to the characteristics of the.

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Use and some of the constraints that you are intending to operate with. Do you anticipate that.

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Any of the characteristics of these events are worse than other events located in the county. No.

C

Only questions of mr wedekind.

A

Thank you, mr wedington. Now one at a time please go to the microphone. If you have questions of.

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Mr weddington's, testimony again you'll have the opportunity for your own testimony later, but these.

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Are questions of his testimony and please state your name address and occupation and spell for the.

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Record of your last name sure my name is shawna bez a little bit closer shot, abez be easy and.

F

I live at 1007 sharon lane, I'm a project manager question for you is what are you currently farming.

D

We do no address us, we do cattle and pigs and we're trying chickens just not very good at it.

F

Cattle pigs and chickens chickens. Okay, and do you continue do you expect to continue to do that.

F

Farming, yes, ma'am, okay, and do you have a preferred caterer that you plan to use not really how will.

F

You be choosing your your caterer, especially if they have a license for beverage. uh I would assume.

D

We're new at this, so I would assume we'll leave it up to the uh the event. Whoever the event is.

A

Good anyone else have any questions of mr wedington's. Testimony.

A

Please go to the microphone and again name address occupation is spell for the record.

A

Your last name, my name, is larry alvarez. I live at 2019 don avenue, I'm a teacher. It's a-l-v-a-r-e-z.

G

I had a few questions. I I had to make a note. He said a primary residence if you look on the.

G

Maryland real property search right now it says as a primary residence. No so that contradicts what mr.

G

Wedeking has said: is that being as prime residents, I am a teacher, so I was home a lot of the summer.

G

There were weeks I didn't see his car come in. I would see the kids. It seemed almost like.

G

They took like uh turns taking care of the animals that I'm sure a lot of people will.

A

Tell you what's your question, that's testimony yeah. My question is you said it's your primary.

G

Residence, but is it your primary residence when the real property search on maryland says no? It is.

G

um One more question: I had you said that your parties won't be any worse than any.

G

Others there's been several occasions the last year and a half where gunfire has extended into.

G

The dark again a question: that's testimony. Are you going to shoot guns after dark? No.

G

I had one other question about parking.

G

You had a second wedding. The whitbeckers last october are people going to park at.

G

Deer park field and be bust down, like they were, for the woodpecker wedding.

D

I'm not sure what the woodpecker is. We did that for my daughters,.

D

um It was just a thought thing we thought would be better.

D

I can't answer that question so they they had people park.

G

On deer park, that's quite okay! Sorry.

G

That's that's it for now and I didn't mean to cut you off, but that's a question. You're getting used.

A

To the process too, thank you. You'll have the opportunity for that. Testimony later in the.

A

Process, I promise you: okay name, address occupation and spell for the record your last name, christina.

H

Babylon 643, beaumont ridge, road vp of marketing last name is b-a-b-y-l-o-n. uh Question is how.

H

Are you going to if there's liquor served at the event? How are you going to monitor and.

H

Make sure that the neighborhood and people in the neighborhood are safe, while they're driving out.

D

um The only way that we can, I think, do that and what we're trying to do is if we have a.

D

Licensed caterer and a licensed bartender, I think the responsibility from what I understand again.

D

This is our we're new at this um is falls on them, so I think I think, the the thought.

D

Is that they stop they check for underage drinking and they stop anybody from drinking.

D

Past their limit, but I I that's all I know so my question is as well. How do you plan.

H

To monitor so that there are not duis driving under the influence through our neighborhood.

H

Where there are people and kids that are out and about in their neighborhood to keep them safe,.

D

That's all I can tell you, that's that's my only I don't know what else to tell you. Thank you.

A

Well, we don't normally leave. You asked a second question, but we'll go ahead and do that. Okay,.

F

um Again, identify for the records 1007 sharon lane uh westminster 21157, be.

F

Easy, I'm a project manager. What other kind of activities do you have on the farm that your.

F

um Guests may enjoy.

D

um The one thing we do have is we have uh a type of breed, a cattle which is.

D

um Scottish highlands and the people seem to enjoy getting pictures taken with them.

F

Okay, do you do you have a shooting range, uh no.

D

A

Go ahead, go ahead. Take you, don't have to take a number 650, wilmot ridge, road, I'm a manager.

A

A little bit closer to the microphone, sir. Okay, do you need me to repeat that? Yes, please keith eisman.

I

650 wilmot ridge, road, I'm a manager, it's spelled for the record, your last name, e-y-s-a-m-a-n.

I

Is the only access to this facility off of wilmot ridge, road.

D

Yes, do you believe entering and exiting your facility provides enough space to not impact.

I

Other residents, yes, are you aware that there have been numerous complaints and calls made.

I

For running over people's yards, I'm not. Are you aware that, during one of your wedding events.

I

That you had, there was a vehicle that drove through a residence yard. I don't that's it.

J

Good morning cheryl barnes 2003, don avenue, b-a-r-n-e-s and I'm retired. um I have a question.

J

For the zoning board, um no questions of his testimony of his testimony. Yes ma'am. Oh, he said 12.

J

Events a year, um if it was a very successful, would you apply to the zoning for um more youth, no ma'am.

J

J

On the street, the streets it's hard to say, but if you said it.

D

Was uh 200 people and it's uh two four people in a car it could be 50 to 100.

J

uh Have you made any attempt to communicate with the community here and see what their.

J

Feelings are about this event. I have not oh. Thank you very much. You're welcome.

G

Larry alvarez 2019, don avenue, a-l-v-a-r-e-z, I'm a teacher. I have one more question.

G

um From mr water king, I understand that you or one of your entities might own a distillery.

G

Will that will those be sold or used at the parties.

D

No, we were, we were going to start a distillery um down at our other piece of property and then.

D

We found out that my son was allergic to all the ingredients, so we kind of kiboshed it. Thank you.

K

Hello, my name is kim allenball a-l-l-e-n-b-a-u-g-h. I live at 651.

K

Wilmot ridge, road and I am a cpa- I wanted to see just to clarify that if this is an event.

K

Center, that's mostly supposed to be family events; they also. I was also listening and.

K

Heard that this would support their farming. You know it'd, be agribusiness to support the.

K

Farm will you plan to charge your family to have events at your event center? Yes,.

K

The parking that you have delineated is on the size of a hill on the side of a hill. The google.

K

Maps pictures show it along the driveway on the far side of the stream from wilmot ridge. Do you.

K

Have you parked anybody there? Yet if you look at this map, these are these topo lines are probably.

D

It might be, it shows you're on this map, the topography lines and as the.

D

Lines get further apart, it means it's a it's a less steep of a hill as they get closer. It.

D

Means it's more steep of a hill. It's probably one of the flattest spots we have on the farm.

K

And are you concerned about it being soft in the spring when weddings on things might be more.

K

Desirable to answer your first question: it's two and a half acres, so I would think that.

D

Comfortably you could get a hundred cars in two and a half acres. The answer, your second question.

D

Is that we raise cattle on this field, so we're not going to do anything. That's going to wreck that.

D

Area, that's going to impact our our cattle, so we would have to do something else to either.

D

Cancel or whatever, so you you're it's awesome. So it seems then, that if there has been a period of.

K

Rain say in may, and you have a 200 person, 150 person max wedding, that you're going to have 50.

K

To 75 cars you're, not sure where you're going to put, because you can't impact your cattle's fields.

K

I didn't say that I said we would just come up with another plan or we would cancel the wedding.

A

Thank you. Thank you. Go ahead, sir.

L

My name is marty allenball. I live at 651, wilmont ridge, road, I'm a senior advisor.

L

Financial planner last name is spelled a-l-l-e-n -b-a-u-g-h. I have a question.

L

For kurt, do you need to apply for a permit for each event that you're conducting on this site.

D

I don't believe so. I think that if, as long as we stay under 12. well I'll jump in and answer.

C

Briefly, that is the purpose of this hearing. If he did not apply for this, then yes, he would be.

C

Obligated to apply individually through the zoning administrator for each event, okay,.

M

My name is dennis curl. I live at 1900 don avenue, westminster, maryland 21157.

A

Spell for the record your last name, sir k-e-I-r-l-e.

M

Okay, okay, my question is, is um I know you own uh arbor valley business. I think it's located.

M

In sykesville, uh I'd like to know if you're interested or going to move all your equipment.

M

From there up to this farm to help you do your farming, I don't own an arbor valley anymore. My.

D

Daughter does she's sitting right back here too right right and to answer your question. We have.

D

14 acres of industrial land in woodbine at 97 and there's no reason for us. Nor do we.

D

Have any thought of moving the landscaping business to the home farm? Okay, thank you.

N

Lisa clatterbuck 710 rini drive westminster, maryland 21157.

N

C-L-A-T-T-E-R-B-U-C-K have a quick question regarding the second wedding, where mr alvarez.

N

Mentioned there were people bus to the deer park fields. Were you aware, there's no parking.

N

After dark and or did you maybe get some kind of special permission from the county, whoever.

N

You would need to to park there to have your guest park there. I'm going to object to that. I.

C

Don't mind him answering, but he testified that the parking for these events will be on this property.

C

So I don't think it's relevant the parking that did occur that he spoke to at deer park. I I agree.

A

With you, ms miller, that it he's testified that he will not use utilize that as a parking area.

A

And and the other be testimony, I'm sorry, okay, any anyone else have any questions of mr wedicans.

A

C

Can I ask him a few questions again follow up, I didn't know if you wanted to do that.

A

Now, or wait until after the board did that, I think to the extent it might address some.

C

Of your questions go ahead. Okay, thank you, mr wadkin. You were asked by a few.

C

um A few citizens about shooting on the property, do you shoot guns on your property? We do do you.

C

Do that legally and licensed we are, is it your intent to ever do that during an event? It's not.

C

You were also asked about parking in the field and about uh the potential for that to change um was.

C

That, just to the extent that, if parking were to ruin that field, you would then need to reevaluate.

C

This business decision- that's right, okay, so as long as the parking still allows the cattle to.

C

Graze there at other times, then that will be the area that will will be utilized for parking and.

C

And if there comes a point in time when that is no longer feasible, then you will come back to this.

C

Board for some kind of modification and show them a new area for parking. Is that accurate? It is okay,.

C

You understand that, to the extent you deviate from your approval by this board, if they were to grant.

C

This approval that you would need to request a modification of this board. Yes, okay, thank you. Okay,.

A

Board members questions of mr wetican's testimony mr caldwell. Good morning, sir, I have a question.

O

Concerning exhibit a and b uh and exhibit a, could you tell me what direction this picture was taken.

O

In which we use the camera pointing yeah, are you looking I'm sorry, I thought the 6a 6, sorry, okay,.

D

Okay, uh that's actually looking back towards like hook road, so if you're standing.

D

Here, where the picture where the camera is hook, road- that 136 acres, is behind this picture.

O

Do you have any idea how far away that house is it's shown in the picture yeah? Yes, sir.

D

Just a guess, I would say that from my house to the to wilmot is about 1800 to 2000 feet.

D

um From there from that structure to that house is probably close to a mile all right.

O

And the other question I have is for your event areas. Yes, sir.

O

um You mentioned that you're constantly building a barn in the future.

O

We that's just what we were thinking, so we were thinking of a bank, barn type of structure.

D

um But that's we're not doing that anytime soon. It's just the proposed that if in case we do it.

D

Okay, we wanted I'll jump in and answer that briefly, mr caldwell, we wanted to ensure that.

C

If and when mr wedekind ever does construct that barn there, that that does not initiate.

C

A modification as long as no other characteristics of the use have changed. So that's why we wanted to.

C

Show that area to you and let you know that at one point in time that there might be a permit.

C

Application for a barn that mr wedican would need to go through that process and would still.

C

Be in compliance with this approval that barn would be used for events if the weather's bad.

O

Or something like that is that true, correct, okay, so back to my original question, was how.

O

Far away is that from the properties that are adjoining you, so um actually, I actually.

C

Prepared something if you to answer your question, if you'd like to see it, please.

K

What are we up to exhibit seven.

C

Thanks, mr waterkind, I'm showing you what has been marked as applicants exhibit seven.

C

C

Does that show the approximate distance line from the middle of your property, where that.

C

Potential future barn is to your closest property line of any residence. It does okay and does that.

C

What measurement does that show 987.6, okay yeah and mr caldwell, that is, from the county's gis.

C

Mapping system that shows that so I would like to ask that that map be entered as applicants.

C

Exhibit seven please and we'll accept that into evidence. Thank you and just just to clarify.

O

um The distance is from the closest property to the center of your property. Yes, where that's where.

O

Your residence is: is that correct, it's kind of in the middle of those two c and b. Yes, sir.

O

So the barn will be closer. No okay,.

O

Very well, thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Let me jump in here.

A

um Mr boyd, what is the requirement? What are the setback requirements in the code.

A

For an event like this for an event center, like this.

L

P

Thank you. This is just a second copy. Thank you. Okay,.

Q

There are other uses which this is: what qualifies that underneath.

Q

um At the front yard, setbacks normally 50 feet, sides are a hundred and the rear yard is 50.

Q

Otherwise, there's a setback of 200 feet, 200 feet.

A

So so there is no variance request here and there's no variance needed in this request for the.

A

Conditional use for a country in an event facility. Okay, no thank you. I just wanted that clarification.

A

um Any questions mr simmons, no, what's eckard, I just want to clarify you indicated, and I.

P

May be asking the same question that somebody's already asked and answered that primarily your.

P

Driver for pursuing this was for family members, but you I'm, assuming you fully, also anticipate.

P

Having members of the public have events here as well, not just limited to family members,.

P

Thank you. Well, we do have a pretty large family, understood.

A

Mr snyder, no questions very good.

A

Any rebuttals, ms miller, okay, no thank you at this point and I promised you this this moment.

A

Would come, you will have the opportunity to go to the microphone, identify yourself state, your.

A

Name, address occupation spell for the record, your last name, and you may give testimony and.

A

Then, after you finish, your testimony stay at the microphone. Ms miller will have the opportunity to.

A

Ask you questions of your testimony, as will the board so there's the microphone guys go ahead and.

A

Form a line and uh we'll I promised you this was coming. I know you doubted me hi, christina.

H

Babylon 643 wilmont ridge, road westminster, vpn marketing, last name b-a-b-y-l-o-n. My property is.

H

um Backing up to the whitakind property, as you've heard many people here talking about two events.

H

That happened, the music went well into the night past 11 o'clock. I heard it inside my house with.

H

The windows closed, so I like to know how and what are, is the recourse, if that happens again,.

A

But that's really a question, um mr voight, would you want to address that it? Mr mr void, is our.

A

Zoning administrator and he deals with the code, and I think he can answer those questions. Oh.

A

There's technical questions uh better than we can as a board here. He'll get it right.

Q

um If there's a violation of the noise ordinance or if someone feels there is a violation of the.

Q

Noise ordinance, the correct procedure, would call the carroll county sheriff's department.

Q

And they would investigate determine if there is a violation and if there is a good issue, a.

Q

Citation for it, so it doesn't stop it. It's just a citation. Well as it, it should stop it or you can.

Q

Cite it again or arrested? The other question is, which is a before we're talking about 150.

H

To 200 people so we're talking, maybe 50, to 75 cars. This is a neighborhood that has one lane.

H

In or one road in one road out, uh oftentimes, it's one lane where people have to wait for the other.

H

Person to pass because it's a neighborhood road has there been any studies or anything to look at.

H

This to see, if it's an adequate road in and out the one thing I do want to point out recently.

H

In the past year, or so there was an accident on the road it shut down the road for over an hour.

H

And if we're talking about this traffic coming in and out the people on the other side of that.

H

Accident did not have access to any type of medical emergency. If something would happen.

H

So how are we going to eliminate that and then two we're also bringing this many people in where.

H

There's alcohol being served in past testimony, there's no recall course or plan on how to keep.

H

The neighborhood safe and if there is someone that has drank too much, keep them off the road.

H

So that is a concern that you have many people coming in and out of the neighborhood one late.

H

Road oftentimes, who are drinking at an event, and then you have children and people in the.

H

Neighborhood that this is their home and you're really subjecting them to a dangerous situation.

A

Ms miller, any questions of miss babylon's testimony no questions, but I actually did.

C

Want to ask mr voigt one follow-up question we'll do that as after we get finished with.

A

Miss babylon board members any questions of ms babylon's testimony. Thank you, ms miller. You have.

A

A follow-up question from mr bowie: yes, mr voigt, is it also true that, in addition to the noise.

C

Ordinance, if this board were to place some sort of timing, condition, 10 p.m, say on an event end.

C

Or music, and that that would be also be something that the county could enforce. uh That is correct.

Q

It's the board placed a condition on the use of this property, for this use. Any violations of those.

Q

Conditions would be a zoning violation which my office would enforce with, which also involves.

Q

It's non-compliant issuance of fees, possibly up to a thousand dollars a day. Thank you.

A

Okay name address occupation and spell for the record of your last name: hi, I'm abigail desalvo.

R

Kane, which is d-I-s-a-l-v-o hyphen c a I n. I live at 701 deer park, road which is westminster, 21157.

R

I own a holistic center. I did not take the oath because I didn't think I was going to.

A

Speak. Thank you for your honesty, because I only about 40 percent of you stood up. Could you please.

A

Raise your right hand, do you swear affirmed under the penalties of perjury that you your testimony.

A

You're about to give is the truth, the whole truth of nothing but the truth. Yes, I do. Okay, very good.

A

And just get a little bit speak a little bit louder, please! Okay! Sorry! I have a soft voice.

R

um So I live at on deer park, road where don avenue and deer park road meet and the traffic there is.

R

Absolutely overwhelming, as it is, I have to get my mail on don avenue and it's gotten so bad that I.

R

Make my husband get it because trying to deal with the traffic coming off of don avenue and.

R

The traffic on deer park road is like taking your life into your own hands, so I just wanted to point.

R

Out that the idea of 100 or even 50, to 75 more vehicles coming out of that road to me just seems.

R

Over the top- and I don't know the woman before me was asking about- has the traffic impact been.

R

Studied so um I just want to express my concern about the traffic because I just think it's.

R

Already, I think it's dangerous, I really do and we also have the people coming when the games end at.

R

The rec center we have people exiting for that, and all of these events seem to happen on a weekend. So.

R

You know that's all I wanted to point out. Thank you. Okay, just stay there, ms miller.

A

Any questions of her testimony. No thank you board members questions of her testimony.

B

Could you say your name again, abigail desalvo kane.

B

Spell your last name d: I capital s is in sam a-l-v-o and then it's hyphen c a I n.

A

Sign in on the sheet, I did not I'll make sure that you sign in there. So please sign the clipboard.

A

There in that way, if mr dixon has any questions he can, he can refer to that all right. I'm actually.

R

Going to grab my stuff do that and leave, because I have to go to work. So. Thank you. Thank you.

K

Good morning this is kim allenball a-l-l-e-n-b-a-u-g-h. I live at 651 wilmot.

K

Ridge, road and I am a cpa- um I had a question about finishing the property up at the road. I.

K

Didn't know if the wedicans had plans for lighting and signage to indicate their their event center.

A

This is the opportunity for for you to give your testimony. Well, we can go the other way. Then I'm.

K

Concerned about yes, there you go lighting um and the signage, I'm sure it would be tasteful.

K

And they do things a hundred percent out. I'm I'm concerned because of the topography of um of our.

K

Neighborhood, so my house sits directly as you face the their driveway. I live directly to the right.

K

Their driveway cuts through the back uh of the of my well, it's not of my property, but it's certainly.

K

Within sight, so in my backyard, the first 200 yards 500 yards, align my property. So there the screening.

K

That exists there. He spoke of screening and there being woods and there being fields. That's.

K

um Great in the spring and summer, but it's just um it's woods and so as the leaves fall in things.

K

It's not thick you, I can see their traffic going in and out their lights for the cars go in and.

K

Out through the backyard through my house, um and so then the kim and keith eismann who live across.

K

The street from them I get all of the lights in my bedroom window because of the hill, so the the.

K

Second, my my bedroom window is the second floor. It's level with the street so as the cars come.

K

In the lights come through my house and as they go out, it would completely illuminate the entire.

K

Front of kim and keith eisman's house, I believe um so I just I have a concern about the lighting that.

K

Would be there as well lining the driveway and you know changing essentially the neighborhood.

K

From being that rural to being more urban, I wanted to let you know as well that, because the his.

K

Driveway goes down the hill to the stream and then up into the field, and then he's got his facility.

K

Up at the top of the hill, so it may be a mile or so, but it the acoustics. They call it twin valley.

K

And you know pretty much if somebody sings loudly at his house, we can hear it so when ms babylon.

K

Gave testimony that we've had they've had music outdoor music that it shook the windows of my.

K

House, so it's not like it's loud and you can hear it because any of your neighbors might do that.

K

It's it's excessive, and um so I wanted to let you know. The other thing is, is it's not just the six.

K

Houses that border his property to the south that then are affected by whatever noise is being made.

K

But also the houses that are off of hook, road and off of sharon lane it's actually much louder. There.

K

um I have friends up that way and they will call me and say what is happening in your.

K

Neighborhood, so it's um it's a it's a concern. I did want to point out as well that there are no.

K

Sidewalks all the way down don avenue all the way around wilmot ridge and the neighbors walk.

K

We walk our dogs, we push our kids in strollers, the kids, ride, bikes and there's no speed bumps.

K

And it's got a big long straight away down don avenue. You really have to watch that you don't.

K

Get a bunch of speed going and then come around the way. So I have been taking some pictures of.

K

The deliveries they are already having made and some earlier last week they had two pallets of.

K

Agricultural materials delivered to the street on a semi-trailer, so we had a great big chalk that.

K

Would deliver groceries, or you know like one of the great big ones through the neighborhood.

K

um I've got a picture of a water delivery so and the delivery vans will park on the wrong.

K

Side of the road to be close to where they need to pile the things for the family and.

K

They block the road, so I had to drive on the wrong side of the road at 7 45 in the morning.

K

Around the corner to get past the delivery truck and they don't just stop and sometimes.

K

It takes them a minute to find their stuff, so you know it could be 20 minutes and the school.

K

Bus goes right through there, so the school bus. If there are deliveries being made when they're.

K

There you know we'll also have to drive on the wrong side of the road in order to get by.

K

I think I think that the neighbors may well I'm going to speak for myself. I feel.

K

That there is often no limit on what on how the wedding choose to enjoy their property.

K

um It's not like we're going to have a party and it's gonna, there's gonna, be some people. There's.

K

Going to be 150 people, um you know we're going to shoot guns because we can the november of 2020.

K

One before they moved in, they had some friends over to their firing range, and I think that.

K

There will be people in this room who can confirm they started around 10 o'clock in the morning and.

K

They shot guns like the okay corral until 5 30 or 6 o'clock at night, at which time I did call.

K

The police, because it was excessive, it wasn't an hour, it wasn't 20 minutes, they've had quad.

K

Bikes or atvs that they have enjoyed using on the property and have used the driveway as a roller.

K

Coaster, so we're not here to complain about them, I'm here to tell you that I have been unable to.

K

Feel comfortable coming to some agreement on being neighbors and what that means in terms of.

K

Sharing our space, when I I was told if I wanted it quiet, I should have bought the property.

K

So that didn't start us off well and I mean to go on well, I want to live peacefully and let people.

K

Do what they want to do so long as it doesn't impact? How I use my home and how my family can use.

K

Our neighborhood, I think, we've also been concerned that any changes to the zoning might affect our.

K

Property values or they might affect our tax spaces and I'm not in a position to know even.

K

Who to call and ask about how this being an event center is actually going to affect me financially.

K

So I did contact the mediation center through carroll county and spoke last fall at length.

K

With somebody and they were willing to bring the parties together to kind of make an accommodation.

K

About the shooting and I declined to go forward because I didn't feel that I affected him in any.

K

Way- and so he really had nothing that he needed to give me that we needed to to balance, and so I.

K

Thought it was going to be sort of a waste of time. So thank you for your time and I appreciate that.

K

um Okay, no mistake stay at the microphone, sir, ms miller, do you have any questions of her testimony.

C

I do not mr bill. Thank you board members, mr caldwell uh good morning. Miss alan bell. Did.

O

You at any time contact the police. Yes, yes, sir, did you file a formal complaint? They came out.

K

To the they came out and spoke to kurt regarding the shooting incident of the preseason pre-hunting.

K

Season sunday, hey did you contact the police about noise when they had the wedding events.

K

I have not, and the first reason was that we knew full well that that first wedding was his.

K

Daughter's wedding we actually sat outside and grilled and helped his guests find his driveway.

K

Because they couldn't they, they weren't expecting the turn and they come and they turn around and.

K

The other people's driveways when they realized they've missed it. So you know I waved you know.

K

Friendly, like I waved at the you, know, bridal party, coming in in there in their limousines.

K

And things so, we did not call, obviously for their wedding, because that would have been mean.

K

um And then it just becomes a little hard to call you just keep hoping it will stop.

K

Kurt has suggested if I'm annoyed, I should call 9-1-1 and I you know I don't find that that's.

K

Really how you want to live now, you kind of hope that it's just going to die down, and I do feel.

K

That the events have become less prominent, as uh you know, they've have. Maybe they had a open.

K

House or maybe they've had some smaller events and you'd expect them to enjoy their property.

K

As a family, you know making it a business um makes me feel as though the promise that was made to me.

K

When we bought the house in 2001, which was that I was moving into a quiet neighborhood that had.

K

An agricultural remainder behind me: you know um I enjoyed a number of years with it being empty.

K

And we were delighted that we were going to have new neighbors and he introduced himself and his.

K

Son and we shook hands and said you know- have a good time, but it's just got beyond us honestly.

K

Because it's not the way, neighbors use their houses, typically, at least in our neighborhood.

K

Did I answer your question, sir? Yes, thank you.

A

Okay, thank you very much. Thank you.

A

I see a hand up back. There can.

M

In this meeting, there's our time frame, there's no time frame. Why? Well, I just I.

M

Know a lot of people want to talk and give a testimony. I just want everybody to be aware.

M

If, if there was a time frame, we had to work with them to try to get you know. Thank you. We.

A

Okay: okay: go ahead, sir, all right: steve, barnes, b-a-r-n-e-s, live 2003, don avenue and I'm retired.

S

So my comment are concerned: maybe it's more for the county. uh Don avenue was building the.

S

60S early 60s for limited access to residents over the years it's been expanded several times.

S

And adjoining properties of granted access and, to my knowledge, all that's been for private.

S

Residents, maybe some farm access, so the concern I have as many people do is the traffic. That's.

S

Going to be generated- and, as many have already said, particularly up here uh deer park, road.

S

A lot of folks park on the street and a lot of times you have to wait to get in and out.

S

Sometimes both sides are blocked, so it's going to be kind of risky and it would be sketchy having a.

S

Party event, with 50 to 100 cars, so with that said, you know, I suspect that land was landlocked or the.

S

Original access may have been off on nelson road, so has there been any consideration to.

S

Have that access used for the events versus don avenue, so something for the county to consider.

A

Yeah, mr miller, any questions, no questions. Thank you. Okay, mr voigt wants to add something. Mr voit.

Q

uh Yes, the uh just so everybody knows that if he does receive approval today for a country in.

Q

An event center, he still has to go through a site plan process with the county, where different items.

Q

Will be checked off and looked at roads, entrants use the property, building, structures and stuff.

Q

That all gets looked at after he gets approval.

S

Okay, well is was the original access on that property from nelson road? I have no idea.

S

Was it all for don avenue when you purchased it you're off of wilmot.

C

I can answer just to my knowledge. I took a look at the subdivision plots and it shows I mean it.

C

It shows this agricultural piece back, wilmot ridge, so to our knowledge, this is the access.

C

For the site I mean I'm not going to say that we wouldn't be receptive to exploring other options.

C

But to our knowledge, this is our option to access. I suspect it is since wilmont ridge was built.

S

But that's recently in our last decade or two, but going back in the 60s when don avenue was.

S

Quarter mile long, you know it's been added on too many times right, so the concern is.

S

The original street small homes, small development and it's grown and now we're.

S

Going to utilize it for other purposes beyond private residence, that's my primary concern.

S

Thank you board members. Any questions of mr barnes testimony mr barnes. Real, quick, yeah.

A

Was that it was don avenue named after someone, donald bullock, yeah.

S

Yeah, just just wondering: okay yeah right on the corner- and I don't want don't hold this against.

A

Me but I'm friends with your oldest brother, so today's birthday and you told me that thanks.

A

You've got a hand up sir yeah.

A

The road is only bridge road and don avenue has only been 25 feet wide. We.

A

Yeah, that's that's testimony! So if you want to tell us about that, please go to.

A

The microphone and and tell us okay so go ahead and get in line and and that that's.

A

Testimony and you're more than welcome to go to the mic and and share that with us.

L

My name is uh marty allenball, I'm at 651, wilmot ridge. Road last name is.

L

Spelled a-l-l-e-n-b-a-u-g-h senior advisor, my only my comment, that'll be short, would be.

L

For the board, it is three quarters of a mile from deer park road all the way down kind of.

L

Snaking through these different developments to this property, so it's not off of a major.

L

Road and I'm concerned about the 100 to 150 cars kind of coming into this development. As.

L

Mentioned earlier and you've you've been out to the property you've seen the area. There are no.

L

Sidewalks, so families do walk that circle and walk down avenue, uh especially in the.

L

Weekends, fridays and saturdays: it's pretty uh pretty crowded on that road and I'm I'm just.

L

Very concerned about uh someone getting hurt or a fatality occurring there because of uh the amount.

L

Of distance to the property just to the top of it, and also the amount of traffic on a weekend.

A

Ms miller, any questions, no questions. Thank you board numbers yeah, very good. Thank you.

T

Hello, my name is joe schwartz s-w-a-r-t-z. I reside at 631, wilmot ridge road. um I just want to echo.

T

The concern that everybody else has about traffic coming into the neighborhood. I got three little.

T

Kids, I've been at the property for three years. We all use the road, we all bicycle, walk, walk the dog.

T

It's tight back there, it's tight, you know one weekend a month having 100 cars come.

T

In and out of there something's gonna happen and I'm against that. I don't care what you.

T

Do on your property? That's fine, but bringing traffic into our neighborhood kind of sucks.

A

Ms miller, no questions. Thank you board members. Okay, thank you.

A

Get to the microphone now you can start I'm on it. um I didn't stand up earlier. The test.

M

Give my testimony so I want to make you aware of that. Oh you, oh, you didn't take the oath, no.

A

Perhaps we could take this opportunity to prepare to do that. Yeah yeah at my own risk, if I might be.

C

Something old mister does anyone that intends to testify that didn't take the oath. The first time.

A

Could you please stand it's only you, okay, please raise your right who's. The one raise your right.

A

Hand, sir, do you swear or affirm under penalties of perjury, the testimony you're about to give.

A

Is the truth? The whole truth is nothing but the truth. Yes, I do very good, and I appreciate your.

A

Honesty go ahead: okay, uh amazing, first of all, address occupation, okay and spell for the record.

A

Your last name dennis curl 1900 don avenue westminster maryland two one, one, five, seven.

M

um My occupation, I work for toyota, motor sales, inventory control uh and it's k-e-I-r-l-e.

M

Okay, okay, first of all I like to say I don't know mr whitakin, I don't know your family, uh but as a.

M

Neighbor uh walking to the neighborhood okay um personally, this is nothing personal okay. This is.

M

Just about uh residential neighborhood that we've worked hard to move into and live for our families.

M

I like say, I have two daughters still living with me and I have three young grandchildren. Eight six.

M

And two and I have a dog and they're on their bikes. We walk the dog a lot. The kids are around.

M

The neighborhood they're young and my concern is the traffic and their health and well-being.

M

Okay, I'm very concerned about that and what's going to be left in our neighborhood after the.

M

Events and at the bottom of don avenue, there's a stream okay and you folks came there right.

M

You came down down. You could see that curve at ben when you come down down avenue. That's a steep long.

M

Hill and you pick up speed, I don't care who you are you're over the speed limit coming down that.

M

Hill coming around that bend or the opposite way when you're leaving it's the same thing and that's.

M

A that's a sharp bend, it wasn't really meant for a lot of traffic and my concern is when people come.

M

To these events, especially when there's alcohol provided coming down that bend to leave air is.

M

Going to be problems, somebody's going to end up run into mr alvarez's house, or into the creek or.

M

Hitting somebody else that's coming as they're leaving, so that is that's a serious concern. I.

M

Think we all need to address and think about. Thank you very much. Wait a minute wait, a minute! No he's.

C

Okay, I do not have any questions. Thank you, mr bale board members. Okay, you're dismissed. Thank you.

E

All right well good afternoon, um I'm john mcnamara. I live at 645, wilmot ridge, road.

E

M c n: a m: a r, a I'm, an I.t manager at a local hospital system. So we back to your property.

E

We're one of you know, I think, there's probably 400 feet of trees or so during the summer it's.

E

You know there's no light pollution or anything like that, but during the fall and winter I think.

E

Your property or uh the lights for the everything are on 24 hours a night and there are a day so is.

E

There any ordinances about light pollution as well, just because those you know during the.

E

uh Seasons that are not you know, summer and spring there's a lot of light pollution. It comes right.

A

Into the mr, mr voigt will go ahead and answer that question for residential uses. There are no light.

Q

Ordinances for the county yeah, I didn't think so- and for commercial uses, which this would be.

Q

Subject there they will need to show lighting on the site plan and- uh and that will be part of the.

Q

Official documents for the property okay, but for residential uses, as it stands right now in.

Q

Agricultural uses on the property there's no requirements for lighting whatsoever.

Q

And also I mean just like everyone else. I mean the traffic, the noise I mean we haven't been here that.

E

Long, maybe about a year and a half to two years and during the couple events that they have been.

E

The music has gone later than normal than I expect so you know I just want to reiterate that. Thank.

E

You but mr voight, you want to share with him the uh you said: you referenced the site plan, so a site.

A

Plan will be developed if it's under 5 000 square foot of correct me if I'm wrong here, mr boy, uh if.

A

It's under 5 000 square feet of disturbance, it'll be a simplified site plan uh that can be signed.

A

Off by either the director of planning or the chairman of the planning after it goes through.

A

The technical review committee, if it's over 5000 feet of disturbance, then it'll go before the full.

A

Planning, commission and at that point before that it goes to the technical review committee. The plan.

A

Does and then it goes forward to the planning commission, which is another citizen planning.

A

Group that it'll have to be approved by okay, okay, I just I and I I did that so that everyone.

A

Understands when we say site plan, we understand what the process is, but you all may not understand.

A

What the process is. That's why I wanted to make sure that everyone was clear on that. Mr chairman.

A

May I make a comment on that yeah. What did I? What did I mess up? I didn't say you messed up. Okay, I.

Q

Would just like to add something to it: okay, good, very good um when they go before the site plan.

Q

Process and everything in the technical review committee and the planning and zoning commission.

Q

They are public hearings that the public can come to and come in it. Okay, all right! Thank you.

Q

J

Good morning again, cheryl barn yeah give miss barnes there. You go.

J

2003 don avenue, I'm retired and the spelling is b-a-r-n-e-s. uh Mr weedigan uh I've lived there 42.

J

Years my husband was steve back there. His father actually developed that property back there and we.

J

Weren't, aware of access for you to even build the property that you do have we were very surprised.

J

um And so were a lot of neighbors to find that we found out by oh your trucks coming in during.

J

Construction and they uh didn't show good manners for the neighborhood they came in fast. We tried to.

J

Flag them down, they asked them to stop slow down, um and I got all your mud because the stream is.

J

On my property and when it rains, everything comes down the street onto my property and that road is.

J

Terrible there, it floods out quite frequently, and I don't want to stop anybody from making a.

J

Living or having a business, what you are planning sounds like a very nice thing, a lot of neighbors.

J

Here have parties uh third of us have gone to high school together and have lived there as.

J

Long as I have my father-in-law have built a lot of their homes and we always thought.

J

It would be residential the traffic from your trucks alone during your construction broke up.

J

The road caused a pothole and it took forever to get that mended. So now, you're asking us to endure.

J

More construction with a barn and whatever catering trucks, porta pots, 12 times a year.

J

um It's very difficult, you know a lot of with make noise. We have. I myself. We had a lot of once a year.

J

Had pig growth um we sh, we all shoot guns. Most of us are armed down there. It's kind of crazy.

J

um But uh we find it very difficult uh that a residential area is being asked to accommodate.

J

12 times a year, uh 70 100 cars plus all the construction and also a lot of us, are a bit.

J

Put out that you didn't contact any outlets and uh you know talk to us, we're nice people. We get.

J

Together a lot and maybe today could have been avoided. So thank you. Wait a minute, ms miller, any.

J

Questions. Okay, ask me questions. I have no questions. Thank you, mr chair board. Members.

A

Seeing none okay! Thank you. Mrs barnes drive access because it would probably.

J

um Since there's commercial property on there, anyway might be a better way.

U

This is like my biggest nightmare, so bear with me: I'm not a public speaker whatsoever.

U

But this just shows you how important this is to me and my family um name: 6 41.

U

641 wilmot ridge, road, my name is mary jividen g-I-v-I-d-n, I'm a veterinary technician as well.

U

As a mother to four awesome children, one of which is special needs, who has been known to.

U

um Elopement, basically it's in his iep he he will wander. I do my best to keep him at home.

U

Haven't had an issue with it before, prior to you purchasing the property he did wander down.

U

To the creek because he is drawn to water, he has autism as well as fragile, x syndrome. So my concern.

U

With that granted, it is your property, and you shouldn't be on it, that there's that possibility.

U

Of of wandering as well as I believe, there may even be a senior care on don avenue where at one.

U

Point there was a gentleman that got lost in the neighborhood, so there are wanderings in that area.

U

um The noise initially, I was told I've- never spoken to any of the what a kind family at all.

U

um The the owners previous to that would send us notes, saying: hey we're going to log back there.

U

You're going to hear some noise as a common courtesy, um so I never heard of anything. So I.

U

Heard through neighbors that there was going to be a farm there, a working farm, they were going.

U

To have long long, horn, cattle whatever- and I was like, oh that sounds awesome- that's great.

U

You know that's what this area is all about. um Then there was the wedding and I was like.

U

I was told it was the the daughter's wedding. I was like. Oh okay, you know again, even if it.

U

Went past 11, it's a wedding. I don't mind once in a while. Having that, then there was another.

U

Wedding, I sat out on my back porch and I was on facebook and I said wow. It feels like I'm at.

U

An event right now, it's so loud granite, you say: there's a buffer that buffer being the creepy down.

U

Well, it almost acts as a conduit for the noise. I can hear people talking on your farm literally.

U

And you know so, the noises is certainly a problem and I realize that that may not be what could.

U

Hinder this in any way, shape or form, but the traffic is. The main concern is the safety of my.

U

Children, my daughter, is just now starting to play with some of the neighbors and will go around the.

U

Corner I will watch her. I am unfortunately, one of those helicopter parents because I have to be.

U

And so I watch her, but she wants to be independent. Okay, well he's going to have weddings, uh nope kid.

U

Sorry, stay inside go play on the backyard. I don't want you on the street. I don't know these people. I.

U

Don't know these people that are drinking because drinking happens at weddings drinking happens at.

U

Corporate parties drinking happens at a lot of parties unless it is one that doesn't include.

U

That and people drink and drive it's unfortunate, but it happens and it is a small neighborhood.

U

And that road is tiny and it's treacherous um and conditional use permits state that zoning.

U

Board concludes that the new use of the property will be in the public interest. I want to know how.

U

The wedding venue in our little neighborhood is in the public interest. It's not in my interest. I.

U

Could tell you that um location is paramount. I've seen the instagram photos, I've seen other things.

U

That are under the what a kind name, buttercup farm I've seen hashtag wedding venue, I've seen.

U

Hashtag organic farmers market are we planning on having a farmer's market? There too? I don't know.

U

um That would also increase daily traffic, the barn that is a pole, barn that is used to have.

U

Hay stored up top is not really a pole, barn, that's where the wedding is held. There's a big huge barn.

U

A big huge bar in there there was dancing. That was the the area. It was not a tent that was put.

U

Up it was in the barn, the lights. Just as another gentleman mentioned, I see the lights all the time.

U

um The shooting, obviously you know again when you first moved in there all the noise that was.

U

Produced by the banging that constant barrage of banging of poles for the the fencing I was.

U

Like okay, it'll end it'll end, it's all for a good purpose: they're, making a farm.

U

Okay, but now I that that noise is not going to end, there's no end to it. In my opinion, it's just.

U

Going to continue to be that way, we moved there because we were on a cul-de-sac, safe.

U

For my children it will no longer be safe for my children and that upsets me beyond belief and I'm.

U

Upset about it and, like I said this is my worst nightmare standing here in front of people that.

U

I know and that I don't know, but all feel the same way, that we don't want our neighborhood.

U

Intruded upon people coming, you know I had somebody come by and pick up something and.

U

Go, I didn't even know this neighborhood was back here, it's beautiful. Let me know if a home comes up.

U

For sale, they don't know what is back there, but now strangers will so I'm afraid for my safety.

U

A

Ms miller, any questions, no questions board members very good. Thank you for your testimony.

A

V

I have a couple questions. My name is an opportunity for for you to give your own.

A

Testimony so we'll we'll go ahead and answer your questions, we'll see if we can answer them. Okay, I.

V

Albert luke 607 east court, I'm retired. I know for the record your last name, sir luke l-u-k-e.

V

I know that mineral hill got shut down because of lead. We.

V

Were talking about shooting? Is there a lead recovery program at this range.

Q

They're shooting on their own personal property, it's not considered a range and, as far as I know,.

Q

There's no lead was mineral hill considered a range they shut them down because of private.

Q

Shooting range, but if you're shooting on your own property, okay, as long as you're.

Q

Meeting the requirements of dnr for safety, how about noise? Well, they go by the same rules that.

V

They use for deep run rightful revolver club that was shot down because of noise.

V

They didn't have. That was a range again. That was a private club. That um was a private club. Was that.

V

Is this considered a private club uh property owner so they're already they can make as much.

V

Noise as they want, they want to shoot on their property as long as they're doing safely and in.

Q

Accordance with all state regulations covering firearms, you know all week property they can.

Q

Oh, you have to open it to the public and have the public come shooting there, an occasional.

Q

Friend, that comes over and shoots with them. That would be okay, but if they're shooting their own.

Q

On their own property, with their own weapons, perfectly legal as long as they're doing it safely,.

V

All the people on don avenue have to do is park. One car across from.

V

The other and it'll shut the road down, make it a narrow lane.

Q

Oh, that that would be the fact I, um during the cycling plan. Thank you.

A

Any questions, ms miller, no questions. Thank you board members. Okay,.

G

Cool, well, I wasn't sure if anyone else was getting up. My name is larry alvarez, a-l-v-a-r-e-z, 2019, don.

G

Avenue I'm a teacher. I just want to make a comment of something that came up before the board decides.

G

You know, would you want something like this in the back of your neighborhood, you know I.

G

Know that good feelings farm which abuts to kate wagner, was given a limit of 10 or 12 events. But.

G

They dump right. Their driveway goes right out onto kate wagner, which, in my discussions with.

G

The county's civil engineer, kate, wagner and dear park are considered major arterial road functions.

G

Don avenue and wilmot ridge are residential, there's going to be an impact, so I would ask.

G

That, if you were to give conditional, which I'm against that, instead of 12, you limit it to six.

G

Instead of 200 people limited to a hundred people, so at least minimize most of our.

G

Neighborhoods safety concerns which are traffic, noise, alcohol being served and the safety of.

G

The residents that live in that neighborhood there has to be some consideration for the.

G

Fact that basically 12 times a year, this would be a restaurant in the back of a neighborhood.

G

Serving alcohol with people a lot of time, a lot of the talk has been about things at night and.

G

What time they end, you know I've been around carroll county a long time myself we're not.

G

Just a neighborhood, it's a community mr salvo talked about. I played football at gamber, has.

G

Anybody ever been on deer park, road in the fall from about 10 a.m, to about 9 pm.

G

It's this country inn would be a traffic generator that, if timed right would add to.

G

The traffic generation of gamber football, so my request would be to if you did not did 12.

G

But did six make sure that they don't have events when gamber has football games, because that just.

G

Makes that's going to make it ridiculous? Is you know just piggybacking on what mr salberg said.

G

um The bank barn that was discussed- I heard miss miller, the attorney say earlier. They.

G

Were requesting 12 because it was a tent if they go to a bank, barn is 12 still the limit.

A

The conditions that we put on this the approval at this meeting- okay, so so, if we put, if we put.

A

Six, if we put a limitation of six, we put a limitation of 12 today in order for that.

A

To be modified, they would he would have to come back before this board: okay, okay, okay and then.

G

um And again guys, like I said, you've heard a lot of testimony uh mostly negative. Please consider.

G

That I know when you guys drove down there. I personally talked to every single neighbor.

G

Except for one from my house at the bottom of the hill, where all the speed is generated and.

G

Every single person, some of them aren't here today agreed to put that white sign.

G

In the yard, because we wanted you all to see it on your site visit.

G

That's what the neighborhood it may be, his own agriculture, but it's going through residential.

G

To do its business and and we're going to be impacted, you know and that's what we're trying.

G

To negate, thank you any questions, ms miller, no questions. Thank you board members. No! No thank.

A

You thanks keith osman, 650, wilmot ridge, road um spell for the record. Your last name, e-y-s-a-m-a-n.

I

And again, this is nothing personal about any of this matter. Of fact, it sounds like we have some.

I

Things in common- that's part of this, but the issues that we have, that everybody's.

I

Talked about is the traffic that comes in there, I'm uniquely impacted by it, because.

I

I'm directly across from it are we able to answer any exhibits for you to look at.

A

Yes, okay, I have a number of photos. The first one really shows the impacts of my house. I mean this.

I

Is not during an event, this is just normal use, driving out of there with headlights, so I have.

I

Some copies here that okay go ahead and give those to mr dixon up here and mr dixon will go ahead and.

A

Label those and we will enter those into evidence. May I also have the opportunity to review once I.

C

Mean once they're marked, if there are not separate copies, can you deliver a copy to ms miller.

A

Thank you. Thank you is this. Is this my copy or is? Do I need to hand this? No, no, that's your call.

A

Okay, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't he's holding legally so that probably hasn't made it.

I

Around yet, but that's what I see every time and that's at dusk when they come up that hill. I can.

I

Only imagine what it would be like with a hundred cars coming up there, it's just it lights. My whole.

I

House up lights, my bedroom up lights, my living room up it lights; everything up, there's also.

I

Photos in there that shows how the roads used and that it's not really um open. All the time like you.

I

Talk about so that's the biggest concern to me and if you would please look at that, I'd appreciate it.

I

um Maybe we can talk about limiting use of that, so that it's not at night time.

I

That might be something to consider. Thank you, ms miller, any questions. Yes, I am going to have a few.

C

About just so, we can clarify these exhibits before we before I presume that they will be entered.

C

um Do you have them in front of you? I don't, but I'm familiar with it. Okay, um I'm sorry. How do.

C

You say your last name: eiseman eiseman, mr eiseman, um so I this one was pretty clear. um The second.

C

One and mr dixon are we referring to these, as I'm just making the package exhibit one okay, so.

C

um On exhibit one page two, this one: can you just tell us what road that is on that is right in.

I

Front of my house right directly across from the entrance that was taken when my wife and.

I

I were walking, I thought it was a good image to show the impacts and that there's not that much.

I

Room there and those are kids, neighborhood kids walking around there. I just want to clarify for.

C

The board, whether that's wilmont or don, that's that's, okay, because I assume all these photos.

C

Are either will mark that's done so then the third photo is what we're looking at and that's what you.

C

Just identified as don correct: yes, that's going down yeah and then the fourth photo that we're.

C

Looking at that's going down down, that's also don correct and then the fifth photo. That's just.

I

The deliveries that were left in the roadway in front of their residents on wilmot ridge.

C

Correct correct, okay and then can you tell us a little bit about gosh, I'm losing sure.

I

The last one of six yeah, the sixth page yeah, well, that it the roadway, is 20 feet wide.

I

I actually went out and measured it and my concern for that is, is you need a 19 foot.

I

Radius to get out of a driveway without impacting or going into the other traffic.

I

Being the person that has had his yard run over multiple times by people trying.

I

To leave that facility and not being able to make the turn, that's a concern to me.

C

You prepared this. I just want to make sure that they are prepared. That's a picture of.

I

The measurement okay: I took that out of a standard engineering book, okay for radius for turns, okay, so.

C

Oh so this part is I'm part of the reason I'm asking these questions, I'm not trying to be.

C

Smart is because, when this is recorded, sometimes nobody has the context of the picture. So is this.

C

Part is what you said was pulled from the book from some engineering book yeah and then that's.

C

Just a photo of what's exercising yeah, it's just to show how wide it is, because there was some.

I

Concern about how wide the road actually is, so I went out and measured it. Okay, all right. Those are.

C

Were my only questions, mr board member, thank you. We're going to take a 10 minute break real, quick.

P

P

A

Okay, we're going to call the bza meeting back to water.

A

Are there any? Is there anyone else to give testimony? Please go to the.

A

Microphone, the young lady back there and yes, you've, stood up several times and.

W

Hi, my name is helen grant. Last name g-r-a-n-t. I live at 635, wilmont ridge, road. My question.

W

Was whether this board was actually going to be considering the two previous times that.

W

This property has been attempted to be developed. I personally moved into the neighborhood in the 90s.

W

End of the 90s, the early 90s, and at that time the neighbors were part of a hearing that took place.

W

I've actually spoken to joe vance. I have the case number not on me twice that developed. That area.

W

Was to be developed and it was denied due to zoning, because don avenue could not handle the.

W

Volume of traffic- I know the second time. Excuse me the first time it was denied because they.

W

Tried to reroute the traffic off of don, I am I'm going to object and I believe that property was.

W

um They stopped them from going that way because a home was built on it, and I don't know if that.

W

Property was heading towards nelson, or if that property was actually heading out towards a.

W

Little street that's across from bullocks, which would be at the other end of south bend court.

A

What we're here to do does a request for conditional use for a country in an event.

A

Facility, so any previous zoning decisions, it's based on what the zoning is today and the zoning.

A

On this piece of property is ag- and it sounds to me like that was a there was an attempt to.

A

Get that rezoned to increase the residential density. It was, but at the time and at the end.

W

Like it was 93, we were told that the property would be zoned agricultural and there could be.

W

One home as private property to enter yes and to don and no other traffic would be allowed.

W

From there, yes and then there's a whole list of conditional and a permissible principal permitted.

A

Uses that are in our code and that's what we're here to enforce is the well principle permitted.

A

They don't have to come before the board of zoning appeals, but a conditional use like it.

A

Was requested today has to come before the board is owning appeals, so so we we are not considering.

A

Previous rezoning um uh attempts that could be brought up at a future meeting is what you're.

W

Saying well, it has no relevance to what we're here to decide today. Well, it still.

W

Has relevance with the amount of traffic that will be traveling up a small residential road.

A

Yeah I mean we consider traffic absolutely in our decision here today. So will there be a traffic.

W

Study, or has there been a traffic study on that? If there's a traffic mr boyd go ahead and answer.

A

That before I get messed up mr bell, may I just briefly object for the purpose of uh preserving.

C

My record here that anything that is part of a former decision, if I don't have that decision in.

C

Front of me and can't see it and, what's being summarized, I have no ability to comment or.

C

um Or review, so I don't have that in front of me. So again, I understand she's already testified to.

C

That but I'm just pointing that objection out to preserve my record and in terms of.

C

The traffic and mr voit, obviously please chime in if you think I'm misrepresenting this, but as.

C

Part of whatever type of site plan is required by the development review. That will then be a.

C

Decision that is made based on the site plan review as to whether a traffic impact analysis.

C

Or study is required as part of that review, I mean you know there, there's not to say that an.

C

Individual could not always do a traffic study, but what I'm saying is that that could or could.

C

Not be required as part of the site plan review, and there are criteria that the county looks at.

C

To make that determination through that review process, does that clarify things.

W

But I spend the time to do that before we wasted everybody's time to see if we could let this go.

A

But our the request here before the board of zoning appeals is for a conditional use for a.

A

Country in an event facility, it has nothing to do with the site plan the traffic study. All of that.

A

Is before that goes before the technical review committee, and then the planning commission well.

C

And I I'm mr bale, I'm sorry. I do understand her confusion because it is kind of confusing to the.

C

Average citizen, but the zoning process through this board does precede any sort of site plan so.

C

There has to be an approval because there would be no purpose of proceeding through a site plan.

C

Process on a use if it did not receive approval of this board, so that is why this is like the.

C

First step in the process, if you will, I do I, I know I shouldn't be responding because it's not.

C

Really time for questions, but I do think that that's a common misconception, so I thought it.

C

Was worth pointing that out? So speaking about the road, I had one other question: I know objects.

W

Deliveries and things have been left on, wilmot ridge and vehicles do have to go around the.

W

Bend to pass that stuff going forward, would mr weddington be delivering all of that equipment.

W

What not right on wilmot ridge is his road wide enough for an event center. Are there.

W

Are there county requirements for the dimensions of his road, leading from wilmot to his property.

W

Again that concerns us, because if all these events are coming and they're.

W

Unloading 15, 20 30 porta-potties on our street. That's going to kind of affect us.

Q

uh Yes, all those type of items are looked at during the site plan process, with the driveway.

Q

Access to the proper and everything that is all reviewed during the site plan process, which.

Q

Begins after they get the approval to have the event there if they can't meet the requirements.

Q

At that time they would either have to comply with the requirements of that time, possibly ask for a.

Q

Variance or it could be denied because it there's no way it could be requirements, but that's all.

Q

Looked at it during the site plan process, which again is consists of several meetings, county staff.

Q

And the planning and zoning commission they are all public hearings. You can all come and comment.

Q

At those hearings and bring up technical details at the trc or to the planning commission that can.

Q

All be brought up to the county staff at that time and they will look at all that during that process.

W

Will our entire neighborhood be notified? I mean when this, if you have signed up and if your name.

Q

And address is on the sign up list or, if you're, an adjoining property owner of this property.

Q

You will be notified by mail of future planning and zoning commission meetings.

Q

And trc meetings that are become part of that site plan process.

Q

It that will all be notified, you'll all be notified by that. Okay, the original.

Q

County code top of the street right pearl county code, all that's required to be notified for this.

Q

Hearing are the adjoining property owners, people who touch this property and there's required to be.

Q

Assigned placed out in front of the property advertising this hearing, they are the only.

Q

Legal requirements for notification prior to this hearing good question: I understand that the board.

W

Is possibly in the process of renaming this type of an event considered it um a country in slash.

W

Event center and I understand you're in the process of turning that over to event, slash.

W

um In a bigger venue.

W

Affect what we're doing here today, the county is in the process of updating its current code to.

Q

Modernize and it hasn't been looked at in over 30 years, there has been suggestions made to separate.

Q

The event center from the requirement of having a country in and just having it as an event center.

Q

um Or an event venue, not a center.

Q

The number of people or anything of that nature, has not been set at any of that. It's just all been.

Q

Brought up to the board of commissioners and to the planning commission who have reviewed all the.

Q

Upcoming code changes, okay and they're public and they're online, and you can look at all those.

Q

Changes and they're getting ready, probably in the next month or two to go before the board.

Q

Of county commissioners to be voted upon if they approve them, then they'll become the legal code at.

Q

That time, but up until that time, when the county commissioners vote on it, the current standards you.

Q

Have to abide by okay, because I understand, as it is now it's like. I said country and slash event.

Q

Center, I always told the events slash banquet facility well banquet facility. That's part of.

Q

The wording- yes, one thing you have to remember about the the event: slash banquet facilities.

Q

Is that it not open to the general public, so I can't have a concert there and have everybody come.

Q

It's still going to be something that has to be by invitation only, and um so it a wedding or.

Q

A club meeting or family reunion, or something like that- that's limited to only those people who are.

Q

Invited to the event are, can attend. The general public cannot attend these events and just show up.

Q

And attend that's the same as it is in this code right now, and that's the same as it will be in the.

Q

New code, if it's adopted, I was just led to believe that it might mean the venue could be larger.

W

um When I, when I called and asked what what an event, what what a country again in an event center.

W

Was I was told, the country in part indicated that mr redekine would have to have a facility where.

W

Someone could spend the night that's correct and he is required now to have that and then.

W

I was told that an event could be anything. I imagined well, like I say, like corporate retreats,.

W

What you could have you could have a retreat center on the property. That's something that's.

Q

Different than what the event um facility is, you can have a retreat and conference center on there.

Q

Currently, if you get approval through this hearing, um not this hearing but through this process.

Q

There are many different things that could happen on the property that are conditional use is that.

Q

If they go through, this same process could happen. That could be anything from a retreat.

Q

Conference center a bed and breakfast it could be a church, it could be landscaping.

Q

Services, a blacksmith shop, they're all type of activities that could be approved if they go.

Q

Through this process of going before the board and getting approval to have it on that site,.

Q

All those events, the same as mr woodington will have to do, we'll have to go through the.

Q

Site plan process after they get the approval and at that time it's reviewed to make sure it meets.

Q

All the county codes- that's including stormwater management, it's concluding roads, building codes.

Q

It's it covers, I think, there's 27 different agencies that possibly could review the plan.

W

Thank you any questions of our testimony. I just have one quick follow-up of mr voight just to.

C

Clarify something: okay, mr voigt. um I think it may have been a misstatement but enlisting the uses.

C

That would have to come before this board. Is it true that a religious establishment is a principal.

C

Permitted use in the agricultural district in the agricultural district. Yes, thank you.

A

Board members any questions. Okay, miss barnes. He answered a lot of her questions. I ask questions.

A

um If yes, well, hopefully, yes, well, it's none of us here at lawyers or zoning experts. We were one.

J

Of course, he starting to sound like he's, going to get approval and that.

J

We're just here to voice our control, I'm not I'm not suggesting that he's going to get his.

Q

Approval, I have no idea that's entirely up to the five people sitting up there.

Q

I'm just telling you what the the code says and what is allowed to be brought before the board.

Q

Is earning appeals for approval, so that's totally up to them. Maybe someone there can tell us what.

J

Would win him approval and what weight does our disapproval carry we're here to up hold the code.

J

Yes, we don't, we do not, and I want. I want that to be perfectly clear, the code is being rewritten as.

A

They're in that process, this board does not rewrite the code, so it's up to the it goes.

A

To a citizen group of interested parties, then it's approved by the planning, commission and.

A

Ultimately, uh with changes by the board of county commissioners, so we we uphold the code. uh We we.

A

Don't change the code based on a request. uh We uphold the code as it's written. Okay, so explain.

J

To us, then he meets the requirements of your code or is that something we will discuss that.

J

Okay, so we could save ourselves a lot of time than if we knew the answer to that. Thank you very much.

K

Hi kim allenball 651, wilmot ridge road. We can't hear you ma'am, I'm sorry, no worries.

K

um I didn't realize you were allowed to take exhibit so my name is kim allenball. I live.

K

At 651, wilmot ridge, road, I'm a cpa, last name a-l-l-e-n-b-a-u-g-h and I just um have picture.

K

I took of wilmot ridge facing the wedican farm drive with the delivery truck. You parked to be.

K

Convenient for leaving things off and um and then my subsequent need to drive on the wrong side of.

K

The road to get by, as would any school bus, is this something that I can have show those to. Ms.

A

Miller and then approach mr dixon and you can we can enter those into evidence. Thank you. Certainly.

A

Thank you, mr dixon. That will be labeled as alan ball exhibit one.

B

Okay- and we will, we will enter those into evidence.

H

I

Keith eisman, so I just have to ask the question: if you guys are going to rule on what the.

I

Requirements are, what's the point of all this: do you take into consideration anything that we're.

I

Saying in the determination seems like you got a lot of people that have probably taken off work.

I

Today to come here and speak about things, but it doesn't sound like.

I

Me that anybody's paying any attention to what we're saying you're going to base it.

I

On on your rules that you have there, which is fine but then what's the point of us even coming.

A

I don't even know where to start I and I will object, because I don't even know to the extent.

I

That that's testimony, I'm just trying to understand the process and I'm going to be.

A

Brutally honest with you, I'm a little bit offended that you think that we're not listening to your.

A

Comments- I don't know just listening to what everybody just said there we're sitting here.

A

In judgment, we're we're quasi-judicial we're sitting here in judgment, and we have this code.

A

To go by and that's what we're that's the reason we're sitting here in judgment is because of the.

A

Code, we don't make the code, we don't write the code, we enforce the code and that's why we're.

A

Here- and this is the process that we use in order to determine whether the request for a conditional.

A

Use for a country in an event facility at this place in in this location is acceptable or not.

A

Understood and I was not trying to offend I'm trying to understand the process that.

I

We go through if we're going to rule on what the code says, then I'm not sure you needed us.

C

Mr bale, to the extent it's relevant here, I think a lot of this is almost like a.

C

Request for legal advice almost, but with that I will say um you know we also have.

C

Support in case law that guides this board as well in its decision making and the code and.

C

So all of that is what this board is tasked with, considering in its decision here today.

A

And- and there is a process if, if if the decision is not liked by one party.

A

Or the other, uh it can be appealed uh to the circuit court and- and my goal as chairman is.

A

To make sure that anything, that's appealed is upheld. Okay, we appreciate all your time.

M

I'm back, um my name is dennis curl. I live in 1900, don avenue, westminster.

M

Maryland 21157, I work for toyota motor sales, inventory, control, k-e-I-r-l-e.

M

Okay, my question is the code, the codes, one of my concerns is, I know it's been brought up earlier in.

M

This meeting is uh about the alcohol, you know the consuming of alcohol and then uh people driving.

M

After the event, okay and, of course, they're going to go right past my property, you know.

M

When they're heading out down that hill- and um my concern is, I know we are going to get our lawns.

M

Road over we're going to get our mound boxes knocked down. That's that's a fact. That's going.

M

To happen to some of us, okay, on these events- and I want to know- and is there anything in the code.

M

That holds the county responsible of approving this event center and country inn that when the.

M

Damages occur to our property, because this has been permitted. You know, besides, a person can.

M

Doing it, which you know most likely we're going to be in bed, that time of night right we're not going.

M

To know, but where else does the responsibility fall when this has happened and it's going to.

M

Happen, it's going to happen repeatedly and then it's going to cause problems. You know.

M

Because I'm not I'm going to be very unhappy that keeps happening on my lawn on my mailbox.

M

I'm not going to be happy about that at all, so somebody should be responsible for that.

M

And I like to know: is there anything in the codes that covers anything like that? All I.

A

Can say is a a large landowner who has people cross paths? um I contact the sheriff's department.

A

So that's what I do personally so right, right! Okay, other thing is: um is there any kind of.

M

Plan for a another lane or road leaving leaving the whitaker farm another route out is there.

M

Any kind of plan, or anything there was nothing testified to here today- that that would occur.

M

Okay, it it was asked earlier on. No nothing was testified to him we're okay, our judgment.

A

Is based on the evidence that was presented, which includes what ms miller uh presented.

A

And what you all uh presented as a neighbor, so it was not. That was that was not in the plans.

A

That we saw here today that was not entered into evidence. Okay, all right! Thank you. Any questions.

X

Okay, so you guys are learning the process.

A

Okay, presentation of testimony and evidence is now closed and some nations are in order.

A

Ms miller, thank you bill. um We've heard a lot of testimony and evidence here today. uh I genuinely.

C

Do appreciate the neighbors participation and specifically their honesty in terms of taking.

C

The oath- that's the first, so we've had we've had anyone point out that they needed to take.

C

The oath, so I really do appreciate that, um as mr voigt clarified and as we've all kind of.

C

Talked about through the process, it is a little bit confusing to the average citizen that this.

C

Is a process that precedes a site plan process, so there are a lot of elements that this board.

C

Takes into consideration that also are taken into consideration through the site plan process and.

C

Perhaps more of a technical review sense um and to the extent there was conversation about other bza.

C

Cases or other rezoning cases or anything else, um you know like that. I think a few neighbors brought.

C

Up, uh perhaps another country and facility and some other history to this site. You know.

C

This board, as mr bale just explained, is, is tasked with reviewing a specific property so to the.

C

Extent that those approvals were were not granted that has no bearing on your decision here. Your.

C

Decision here is in looking at the characteristics of this property specific to this area, specific.

C

To this use and as you all have heard from other cases, there can be a vast difference.

C

In the way one person chooses to operate a country in and wedding facility and someone.

C

Else, so what you are tasked with looking at is the specifics that have been testified to here today.

C

This is all, as you can see, from applicants exhibit one. This is a predominantly agriculturally zoned.

C

Area, as you all are very well familiar with carroll county uh is vastly agriculturally.

C

Zoned and has a very liberal ag zone, if you will one of the principal permitted uses in the agzone.

C

Is a religious establishment? Presumably if someone wanted to operate a church on this same property.

C

Or any of these properties and went through a site plan process, an event could be held without going.

C

Through this bza process every night of the week, but that's not what we're here for today.

C

What we are here for today is a conditional use in the agricultural district. The I think.

C

I don't want to mischaracterize, but the the brunt of the testimony that we've heard.

C

From the neighbors and other citizens in the area is related to issues that are not before.

C

This board, um in terms of other legal use of the property, historical use of the property um and and.

C

You know deliveries, all of those sorts of things are not about the country in an event facility.

C

um The the country in an event facility concerns that were raised were related to traffic and the.

C

Service of alcoholic beverages um traffic- this is, we are requesting this board place.

C

A condition on this use of 12 events per year. um This is a publicly maintained road. Any use that.

C

Comes before you is going to cause traffic on a public road. This is a perfect example of a huge.

C

Property that is able to self-park it's all of its use on the property, so this is not going to.

C

Generate parking on the public roads now, to the extent that there is other neighborhood parking.

C

On the public roads that then people coming to this venue would have to avoid, I can't I can't.

C

Guarantee that nobody can speak to that, but that will not be caused by the use of this property as.

C

Subject to this request here before you, that will just be a result of how a neighborhood.

C

Decides to allow people to park their cars if they're going to park on the public road, the.

C

The traffic additionally will not be generated during what we kind of technically know as the.

C

Peak hours; okay, because these are not commuter type events that we're talking about um the the.

C

Alcohol service and I'll circle back on that, but the alcohol service, the mr wedican testified that.

C

It the way he will operate this facility is that any alcohol that is served will be served and will.

C

Have to be served through a licensed caterer carroll county and the state of maryland have.

C

A process through which an establishment has to get a license and part of that process requires.

C

Some limits on how that alcohol is served to people so that that is the greatest assurance far.

C

And above any private party that you're hosting on a property where alcohol is being served in a.

C

Responsible way to people who are of age and not over served, so that is a separate process where.

C

Somebody has to go through a licensing process and have servers licensed to serve those alcoholic.

C

Beverages now is there any way to prevent one thing from happening? No, but I would submit to.

C

You that the same could be said for me having a party at my house every day. Somebody could break.

C

The law that cannot be the reason under the legal standard that my client is denied this opportunity.

C

Before this board, the I there was also one thing mentioned that I just want to to clarify in case.

C

There was a miscommunication. This request is not necessary for the construction of that potential.

C

Future barn, okay, that mr wedekind, mr wedekind, wanted to put another barn on his property. He.

C

Could go through the permitting process and do that on his agriculturally zoned property? What.

C

We were saying to you through the testimony is that if and when that is ever constructed to go.

C

With this use, he will go through the appropriate permitting process and we wanted to show you where.

C

It would be put on the property so that you can consider that in your decision here today.

C

This is as mr dixon introduced when he read through the file this. This is consistent with.

C

The master plan this does meet the schultz v pritz legal standard there. There is case law that talks.

C

About and that guides this board's decision and approving or denying conditional uses or what some.

C

Jurisdictions call special exceptions and the the relevant case to that decision as a kate's.

C

Case schultz v pritz, which this board I know is, is very familiar with, and what that case says.

C

In a nutshell, is that the board is tasked with approving a use if it meets the code requirements.

C

And as long as it does not create adverse impacts, above and beyond those inherently associated with.

C

Such a use, regardless of its location in the zone, so there has been no testimony here today that.

C

This use will generate an adverse impact above and beyond any other country in an event facility. In.

C

Fact I would submit to you that it's actually less than others, because we are requesting that.

C

This board placing a condition of 12 events per year. That is not something that's outlined in the.

C

Code, that is related to site plan constraints and our own independent judgment and decision.

C

To request that condition, I would also suggest in relation to hearing some of the concerns and.

C

And also to the testimony that was spoken to here today, that this board place a condition that any.

C

Alcohol be served through a licensed caterer that there be a 10 pm end time for any music.

C

And that there would be a maximum amount of attendees of 200 people. Those are all.

C

Conditions that we would be willing to offer and are asking this board to consider and making its.

C

Decision, I believe that those all, even without those conditions, I believe that what you've.

C

Heard testified to meets the schultz v pritz standard, but I think it certainly does with with.

C

The offering of those conditions- and I I think that that's a way to ease some of the concerns.

C

um In a reasonable way for mr wedekind, so with that, I would request your approval.

C

Of this conditional use, I appreciate the time that you've taken for this hearing.

C

um And and guiding everyone through it and would would request that this board.

C

Grant the conditional use approval that's before you today. Thank you.

B

Alan ball: did you bring that photo up to here.

B

All right, I just went sorry, I just wasn't sure what happened with it.

A

He needed a second look. Okay, hearing and record of this case is now closed in accordance with the.

A

Open meeting acts of maryland, we will now consider the case board members who wants to go first.

P

Lisa, I always go first. I'd like to oh you don't always go for mark is.

O

Very coaching I mean I can. I can tell you my thoughts today, but I have not formed a.

P

Conclusion a conclusion at this point yet tell me your thoughts.

P

um I think I heard a lot of concerns here from the neighbors regarding uses that have been. You know.

P

Happening on this property that are permitted on an ag property and are not relevant to.

P

Whether we approve or disapprove the application before us.

P

um And you know, I'm sympathetic to all the the testimony that I heard regarding traffic.

P

But I do recognize that if we do decide to approve this, that there's going to be a traffic study.

P

Done and if they can't meet the requirements, then this is not going to happen on the site.

P

um I think the 131 acres is is perfect by all appearances, it's, but recognizing that you have.

P

To go through, you know, down down avenue to get to it by all appearances, it's it's buffered.

P

From the surrounding neighbors well buffered um the alcohol, I think I think miss.

P

Miller outlined sufficient conditions that if we do approve it, that you know it would limit.

P

The number of events- the number of people, um the alcohol issue concerns- would be addressed.

P

The the noise you know after 10 o'clock would be addressed, so I think that you know should.

P

Perhaps a sage some of the neighbor's concern, so I'm I guess the only thing I'm torn about is.

P

You know I'm not sure that I can even verbalize that yet I it.

P

When this many neighbors show up, it gives me pause before I.

P

Can just automatically say: yes, I'm I'm willing to grant this. I mean my gut says. Yes, it's.

P

It's an appropriate use, it's assumed to be an appropriate use as a conditional use on this site.

P

Sorry, maybe that was all over what I'm thinking so far.

Y

Just look at me because I'm not gonna be here next month go ahead, mr snyder. Thank you.

Y

um Thank everyone. We thank everyone for showing up and contrary to some of the.

Y

Comments, your your testimony is always very important because we, you provide insight to us.

Y

um I'm intimately familiar with this site because I grew up in smallwood. I remember when dawn avenue,.

Y

Was built initially, so I have this inherent understanding of the area I used to hunt.

Y

Squirrels down with the original cul-de-sac was um so I I am familiar with the property.

Y

um Stepping back from that, we see a lot of these venues being requested and what's.

Y

Really interesting, this site is large, we're not dealing with setback issues by any stretch of.

Y

The imagination it's remote in that regard, and you know for face value. One would say this makes.

Y

Sense on the flip side of the equation, we see a lot of these we've approved a lot of these.

Y

But I don't ever recall approving one that drove through a residential neighborhood for access.

Y

There were always on well, it is a public street or public road. There's public roads.

Y

And then there's public roads at least that's my perception and that's what really gives me pause.

Y

um If there was a different access that did not negatively impact the nature of.

Y

That neighborhood, the access wasn't through directly through a residential neighborhood.

Y

I I would be more inclined to support it, but for face value that particular aspect of it.

Y

I can't get past, and so I would not support the request.

Z

Mr caldwell, uh thank you, mr chairman, uh again I appreciate everybody coming out and giving your.

O

Points of view, traffic was obviously your number one concern, but we're not traffic experts up here.

O

The process includes a review of the traffic that this this facility will generate if it.

O

Does have a severe impact on the neighborhood, they will not allow it to go forward, so we were.

O

Only the first step in a long process that the applicant has to go through.

O

So you know I'm not a traffic expert, I can't say one way or another what the impact is going to be.

O

But what we have before is a set of codes. We have, you know the fritz versus schultz.

O

Case, which guides a lot of the work that we do and from my point of view, that the the.

O

Applicant has made their case for the exception. The conditional use.

A

Z

When I first looked at this, I thought this is a very reasonable request.

Z

And I'm inclined to approve it. uh The testimony that is presented uh confirmed that to me.

Z

I'm not surprised at the outpouring of concern from the neighbors, not by the number or the.

Z

The volume of your concerns, particularly about young children, I understand that.

Z

I too live in a neighborhood with young children and.

Z

I I think, with certain conditions.

Z

This board should approve the request for a country and an event facility.

Z

Because I don't think it's going to result in any adverse effects, greater than anyplace else.

Z

Which is the basic criterion for for our decision, so I'm going to vote in favor of it.

A

Okay, I guess that only leaves me first of all, I want to thank you all. We have a large crowd.

A

Here today and it didn't turn into a rerun of jerry springer, and I really appreciate that.

A

um As a matter of fact, one person said dude, we need security down there and I said we'll be.

A

Fine, so I do appreciate that I I really you have no idea how much I appreciate it. I've been to.

A

Public hearings, where they haven't been anywhere close to as polite as what you all have been.

A

This case, when you look at it and when you we drove down don avenue.

A

And we saw all the white signs out there. It was like we have some opposition here.

A

So what do we have? Opposition to? We have opposition to the traffic and.

A

My question was: I was driving the van. How many acres is this 131 according to what was in the.

A

File, I'm like 131, okay, that's I I do know what acre I know. What 100 acre farms look like.

A

The one thing that I was surprised at and I questioned I said: are there any.

A

Distance variances requested in this conditional use, because the request.

A

Is for a conditional use of a country and event facility and there were no variances.

A

The the closest residence was nearly a thousand feet away. We've we've had.

A

Event, centers, that are a whole lot closer to residences and properties than a thousand feet.

A

The alcohol issue- I don't mean to be pushing that issue off to someone else, but that really is.

A

Someone else's issue and the caterer if they don't adhere to the rules of our local liquor board, they.

A

Can have their liquor license suspended? We have had establishments in carroll county that have had.

A

Several months where they could not serve alcohol, it's enforced. I know the people on the liquor.

A

Board and they take their jobs seriously, so that that's not our issue and I'm not passing the buck.

A

30, I hate to admit this, but 30 years ago my son was in the deer park soccer program.

A

And I know what the traffic is like there: the traffic that you all endure on deer park, road.

A

um Is greater than what I think the traffic will be generated by this event center.

A

If there's a traffic issue, um because our determination here today is.

A

To determine whether this country, in or event facility at this location would result in.

A

Adverse effects: noise, dust or traffic greater here than anywhere else in the agricultural district.

A

And I would say that they met that standard, and if traffic is an issue, it will be addressed further.

A

In the process when it goes before the technical review committee and the planning commission.

A

We heard about mr wetigan's daughter's wedding and someone else's wedding, that.

A

Maybe went a little bit longer in the night if these are truly family weddings.

A

If he turns, if nobody complains, they could go till two or three o'clock in the morning at least.

A

The request here we can put conditions on the hours of operation, the shooting on his property.

A

um I don't want to say this: um maybe it was inconsiderate, but it's allowed, especially when.

A

You have 131 acres. If you have a backdrop, um there's there's nothing in the code that would.

A

Prohibit you from doing that on your agricultural property, if you didn't endanger other people, the.

A

Noise is not an issue, and we also heard a lady testified that the constant pounding of fence.

A

Posts and in this county we do have a right to farm ordinance and that's part of normal.

A

Farming operations, so when those posts were being pounded, I know I can hear posts being pounded.

A

A mile from my from my place- and I know that at some point in time it will stop so based on based.

A

On the testimony that I heard today, along with the actual request, uh I I don't see how we can legally.

A

Turn this request down and if we did, I feel very certain that the carroll county circuit court.

A

Would overturn our decision so we're bound by? We are bound by this code. We don't make the code as.

A

I, as I said earlier so with that I'll, go ahead and entertain a motion. I have a motion prepared if you.

O

Wish? Okay, mr caldwell in case number 6409 before the board of zoning appeals that the board grant.

O

The conditional use for a country in and event facility requested with the following provisos.

O

That music ends at 10 pm. The maximum number of events of any kind is limited to 12 per year.

O

The alcohol is only provided by a licensed caterer and the limit of 200 persons per event.

A

Do I have a second on the motion, a second? If I may, I think they said that they would.

B

Stop the music at 10 too. Did you mention that? Yes, all right, not just stop the music.

P

Over at 10 or music at 10, music and attendant cleanup time is what was testified to.

O

Okay, so you like me to amend that music ends at 10.. We've we've been on the events end at 10.

O

The events end at 10., but with sufficient cleanup time yeah I mean that's.

A

Music and event.

O

All right, mr simmons, will you agree to that? Yes, amendment? Yes,.

O

You want to repeat it: nope we're good. I think.

A

Okay, discussion on the motion.

Z

The motion include specific mention of a licensed bartender. Yes, yes, I I would say.

Y

I think relatively the case law involved, that this is a unique situation in that there's other.

Y

Places in the agricultural zone, this is much more impacting at this location, because it's.

Y

Driving through a neighborhood and established neighborhood in order to access the venue as.

Y

Opposed to other areas within the agriculture, so my feeling is that would be addressed because it.

Y

Is more of an impact here in my viewpoint, but that would just be my general discussion before.

Y

Billy, do you think that we should have something specific regarding the traffic.

Y

No, it isn't that. What, where my point is, is that when you look at the case law, it's relative, as I.

Y

Can't remember the exact wording, but it's it's no more impacting here than it would be. Anyplace else.

Y

And what I'm saying is the point that you're accessing the venue through a neighborhood a.

Y

Residential neighborhood is more impactful than it would if you had it out, as we have in all the the.

Y

Best of my recollection, all the others were out on the main road that you didn't have to access.

Y

Through a neighborhood, so I'm saying there is where I believe the case law doesn't really apply.

Y

Or perhaps the case law does apply in that regard, so that would be my discussion before decision.

A

Any other discussion.

O

To address it's not as concern, I think the traffic evaluation will take that into consideration. I'm.

Y

Not saying the traffic evaluation does not con does not will not address the traffic flow. What.

Y

I'm saying is by accessing this venue through a residential neighborhood, you've changed you're.

Y

Changing the character of the flow of people and traffic through that area and impacting.

Y

That neighborhood you're changing the complexion of that neighborhood by allowing a commercial.

Y

Essentially, a commercial facility to exist, that's just my viewpoint and I so it isn't.

Y

You know uh the road needs to be 30, foot wide or 40 foot wide or whatever. Whether.

Y

It's 15 foot wide or 40 foot wide you're still impacting the neighborhood, and that is my point.

O

Well, taken sir, thank you.

A

Any any further discussion on the motion. Everyone understands the motion fully.

A

Okay, all those in favor aye, aye opposed no no motion carries.

A

Our oral decision will become final upon a written decision which would be issued within.

A

30 days, unless otherwise extended by this board, the board's decision may be appealed by filing.

A

A petition for judicial review with the clerk of the circuit court for carroll county in accordance.

A

With the provisions of chapter 200 title vii of the maryland rules of procedure, the appeal must.

A

Be filed within 30 days of the date of this board's written decision. Thank you very much.