Carroll County, MD Carroll County Planning and Zoning Commission, 3 Nov 2021

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From YouTube: Virtual Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting November 3, 2021

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https://www.carrollcountymd.gov/government/boards-commissions/planning-zoning-commission/

A

Good evening everybody I'm going to call to order the november 3rd 2021.

A

Evening meeting of the carroll county planning and zoning commission, can we please establish a quorum.

B

Miss cheatwood here mr waters here mr canelli here miss kirkner mr lester. Here mr hoff,.

C

Here mr bethnell, commissioner, went here secretary eisenberg.

B

Here miss chair: please let the record reflect that six members are present and we do have a quorum.

A

Thank you, please stand for our pledge of allegiance.

A

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america.

C

To the republic for which it stands, one nation, under god, indivisible with liberty and justice.

A

Okay, so we do have a revised agenda, I take it, there's no other changes.

D

No, there are no other changes, just the revision of moving on the closed session.

D

From the beginning of the meeting now to the end of the meeting on just for logistic reasons,.

E

This is jeff, I move approval of the agenda.

C

I'll! Second, that all in favor.

A

Moving on to our review and approval of the minutes from september 21st.

A

Excuse me on september 29th any changes.

A

Does it look so.

F

I move that we approve the minutes as submitted.

F

This is jeff I'll, second, that all in favor hi all right.

A

Moving along to item number six, our administrative report secretary eisenberg, all right good evening.

D

Everyone um thank you all for being here this evening. Virtually we really appreciate it.

D

Now, before I get started with my administrative matters, um we didn't have it on the agenda, but I.

D

Just wanted to reach out and see. I want to deal with my time too, if any planning, commission or.

D

Commissioner wants any statements that they want to say at the beginning of this evening's meeting.

D

Okay, all right so with that, then the first thing I want to talk about is the public hearing. If I.

D

Could just share my screen. I want to make you all aware of the public hearing. That's.

D

Coming up for the commercial from the reset conference of resulting of the residential text,.

D

And show you all what's on our website, so control our apply? Just our sugar screen.

G

Hey linda, while they're doing that. uh That does remind me, I want to personally thank uh pete.

G

And janice uh for being at the first work session last week, uh we had a really really good.

G

Work session uh we had to shut pete lester down because he talked until like nine o'clock at night.

G

But whatever that's beside anyway, uh now we had a great uh they. They had some great insight into all.

G

The work that you all did leading up to uh giving this to us, so we've got a lot of work on our on.

G

Our on our table now to be able to do this, but they reflected very well pete and janice reflected.

G

Very well uh all of the work that all of you did so. Thank you so much. It's really helping us out.

G

As we move through this, so thank you linda forgot to say that so thanks. Thank you absolutely and I.

D

Was gonna actually call on pete and janice too, as I go through this to kind of give.

D

A little bit of the perspective of what they talked about with the commissioners so anyway,.

D

Before I go there, though, um the board of county commissioners is hosting several work sessions.

D

Their first work session, as commissioner rant said, was last thursday october 28th from one to three.

D

At this particular work session um planning, commission members were invited to attend and.

D

Janice and pete graciously volunteered to come for the two-hour session.

D

um And gave their perspective on planning commission's thoughts um and the process.

D

For how decisions were made with regard to the residential um districts, and so actually um with.

D

That, if uh pete wants to say what he said a little bit just give planning commission a little bit of.

D

Background on how you represented the planning commission during this as well as chance, I think.

D

That would just be good for the members to hear who didn't be able to who weren't able to watch it.

F

Well, I guess you to keep it brief. The the way it was done, I thought was was- was.

F

Very orderly, in terms of they basically took the grid, the matrix that we had that.

F

Started out, I think, with um our discussion concerning um in and outdoor storage units.

F

The residential text, specifically concerning retirement villages and.

F

The clustering as well, and so they went through that and I thought you know janice and I both.

F

We tried to summarize some of the conflicts we had as a com as a commission, uh not conflicts.

F

Is a strong word, but you know I guess the the discussions that we had and some of the thought.

F

Processes behind it, I mean you know, the dog kennel um was was one that we actually talked a great.

F

Deal about and and the problem with having it in the code, but not having any teeth to enforce it.

F

In terms of our zoning folks at the county, and so it was an interesting conversation and um that I I.

F

The body language in the room I enjoyed kind of watching the commissioners absorb it and then.

F

Reflect back some of what janice and I were saying so um that that wrote a very at a 30, 000 foot.

F

Level, um I thought it was a very orderly exchange and again I I appreciate the opportunity to go.

F

In and um and add some color to to the decisions that we made, I appreciate y'all. Let me do that.

D

Did you have anything that you wanted to add with that um not a whole lot? I think pete said.

H

It pretty succinctly, but it was interesting. um I of course you know, talked about the many different.

H

Conversations that we all had as a planning commission.

H

um And it um was taken well by commissioners, I think and peter's right. The dogs.

H

Were definitely quite a large discussion that and the retirement villages, but I think overall they.

H

Listened to how we came with our decisions and um took that and absorbed it and hopefully will all.

H

Come out better for the whole thing, so there you go. Thank you. Thank you, james, and also thank you to.

D

Jamestoon for um attending the virtual maryland planning commissioners association conference.

D

She actually um threw in some of the things that she had learned from that conference.

D

Into the discussion, so we really appreciate you attending that as well. Sorry, it wasn't.

D

In person, um but I think they did a nice job, putting together a virtual um conference. This.

D

Year, so, thank you again for doing that as well. Well, thank you for letting me be a part of it.

D

um So then, with that, so that was wrapping up october 28th. We actually have two more.

D

Meetings scheduled before the public hearing, as you can see on our caroleezone.org webpage.

D

We have november 4th and november 9th and the idea is we're going to get through the.

D

Suggested recommended changes to the residential districts with the board of county commissioners.

D

They will have a public hearing on the 18th and, as you can see from the website,.

D

There are two public hearing times um an afternoon from 1 to about 3 pm and that will actually be an.

D

In-Person public hearing and it will be an 003 of the county office, which is the reagan room where.

D

You all typically need just to be able to give us some more room to social distance appropriately.

D

Given those capacity limits about 25 people can be in the room any given time. So if we have more.

D

Than um you know, 15 or so members of the public by the time, you include commissioners and staff.

D

We'll have to rotate people in and out so we'll see how many attend for that um and then an.

D

Evening virtual meeting- and we thought virtual was good for two reasons um and in the evening was to.

D

Have an additional meeting people that work that can't make it up to the county office building.

D

And those that may not feel comfortable being in person but still want to have their voice heard.

D

On more than just a letter, we decided to do a hybrid virtual, so the commissioners and staff.

D

Will be in the county offices and we will be doing their version from here, but we'll be taking.

D

Comments virtually for this, and so we have a sign up for people that want to.

D

Make public comments and we can call them like we typically um do when we've done some of the.

D

Public outreach through planning commission, you know you'll sign up for what you want to speak.

D

To and I'll have your name and information, so only if you sign up well, I call you for the.

D

Virtual meeting just keeps it orderly and open, depending how many people.

D

Call in at that time, and then also they can submit public comments um here using a quick button.

D

And what's really nice is it? Has your information address and then so we can sort the topics because.

D

There's two topics that are part of the public hearing: the text changes that are being considered.

D

And the two properties, with the with the ends, change requests that are comprehensive so from.

D

The comment you can do a pull-down scene, whether it's text or math, and then put your component in.

D

And that'll just help us keep straight the various comments and how they come in and we.

D

Can see what's going to what um different issue within the public context of the public hearing.

D

um And again, everything as far as the summary of changes.

D

The residential district um chapter, 155 and 158, and the comments are all on this webpage.

D

As well as, if you go to the comprehensive reality, mapping portion, you can just click here.

D

When you do that, a summary of the planning commission recommendations to the board.

D

Table is at the top there's a map of the properties that are being requested.

D

Their staff reports all of the comments we have received through august 20th.

D

And at the bottom are the official zoning maps that will be voted on after the public hearing.

D

When the time comes for changes or no changes as well as, if you recall, the commissioners chose to.

D

Defer um the baby properties request to go from, I 1 to c2 at the time, because they wanted the entire.

D

Property to come in with the residential component as well, so this written that um it's actually.

D

On two maps reflect the changes for the baby property and then the third map is stable. Only.

D

So um are there any questions with the public hearing notification or where the commissioners.

D

Are in their process, I just wanted to give you make you aware we're we're ahead of the thing.

B

Okay, great well, then, that's all I have for my.

D

Administrative report this evening, thank you so much.

A

Thank you um with that. We'll move on to item number eight, which is the transportation master.

A

Plan um the update survey, what item seven you skipped over administrative rules? Oh sorry,.

A

uh Item seven administrative rules and proposed 2022 meeting uh dates. Okay, um so as we do, every.

D

November, according to our policies and push our administrative rules of procedure and operation.

D

For the planning commission november is the month during our first regularly scheduled meeting. Would.

D

Not be a work session, it would be our business meeting that we elect a chair and vice chair and a.

D

Secretary from its membership, um as well as review the rules in front of you to make any changes that.

D

You feel are necessary to continue to do planning commission business efficiently. I mean we've made.

D

Changes over the years as issues come up sometimes you know we need clarification on these rules.

D

I did review them and the one suggested change I would make um to our rules moving forward.

D

Is with regards to clarification on item 3.6, the inclement weather policy.

D

That now that we're in a virtual world, I think maybe clarifying language saying that.

D

Even though we're in a virtual world, we can probably do a meeting virtually if county offices.

D

Are closed, I would suggest that we don't just for consistency's sake, that we just add language.

D

That says, in the event that carroll county public schools are closed, um any scheduled business needs.

D

Whether in-person or virtual would be canceled and then on the case-by-case basis too, that if.

D

The county office building is closed, even if we had a virtual meeting scheduled meetings would.

D

Be canceled because we don't have a way to stream from the county office building there may be other.

D

Logistics, if there's a storm happening, that's bad anyway. People may not have internet access, so we.

D

May not be able to have the meeting as an even vision. So, even though it's great that we have.

D

This virtual world opportunity, it's still not perfect and just for consistency's sake, I would.

D

Just suggest that we address virtual meetings as well. Clearly, so there's no questions about that.

F

You know, linda, I think that's that's great, and I would just like to suggest- and this.

F

Is mainly just coming from, you know, an experience we had a few months ago or a few weeks back where.

F

We had changed from an in-person meeting to a virtual meeting.

F

And there was some confusion from some people who wanted to attend.

F

um You know inclement weather. I think this makes total sense. I think there ought to be something in.

F

Here that basically says if we're going to change from an in-person meeting because of of unforeseen.

F

Circumstances that will give a certain amount of notice or will push the meeting back a week or.

F

Something there ought to be some sort of accommodation to give the public a chance to.

F

You know to be made aware of the change. Does that make sense to anyone else, or am I the only one.

F

Who thinks? Who thought that was kind of? Because it puts you in a real mind, linda? Because.

F

How do you get the word out? I mean everything you did everything you were supposed to do.

F

But it wasn't enough, you know, I mean because people you know they they were on their way.

F

Almost you know, and so um I I don't, I don't think it's a good look for us to have a hearing. Oh yeah,.

F

Well, we changed it at the last minute. There ought to be a process for that and I don't have a good.

F

Solution to it, I'm just raising it as a is anybody else concerned about it, if not I'll, be quiet.

E

You know, I think this is jeff. I think that I don't disagree with you, pete and I know.

E

We inconvenienced members of the public, it was unusual because it was an extraordinary.

E

Circumstance, I think we had seen some coveted numbers go up dramatically in a short period of.

E

Time right before this, and so there was sort of a public health and safety issue that might have.

E

Instigated that, but um it's possible, we could face that situation again. um So um so I don't. I don't.

E

Know if, if we face that situation again, I guess the next question is: what's a what's a reasonable.

E

Solution for that, because um maybe we should just cancel- is it better that we cancel the meeting.

F

I honestly don't know, and- and that's where my my my quandary is- is that it you know, because.

F

You're asking the exact question I was asking myself I mean: should we have just canceled it.

F

Rather than hack people off, because we don't want people thinking we're moving it around.

F

To to you know, hide something because that's not that's the exact opposite of this.

F

And then two technology makes it awful convenient for us to hey. We can still do this.

F

Well, right that we can, but we're not doing it in the manner in which we communicated beforehand.

F

I don't know what what we are, what level of disclosure we held to, I mean what kind.

F

Of notice, are we supposed to give because again, linda did everything she could. I mean.

F

It's not on her, it's not really on the public. It's it's a question of you know. You know the.

F

Checks in the mail you know it got crossed, um I don't know, I don't have a good solution. Jeff.

C

Should we make a disclosure on the meeting announcement that you need to check back at x time.

C

In case something might change for the time being.

C

Yeah, I think, one time the day of the meeting yeah we do have that we did.

D

Have some cover language before um we like pleased with this agenda, subject to change.

D

um And we did have some code of worrying, like you know, just be patient meetings could change.

D

You know, but then, when we came back in person we had more of a study flow. Let's think about it. I.

D

Think again, this decision doesn't have to be made tonight. I'm taking notes about things that we can.

D

Have further discussion on um to change or to make clarifications, I think that's a good point.

D

um And and and maybe this didn't have to be a rule issue, but we can talk about, wouldn't.

D

Even be memorialized in the rules, it could just be as a practice for us.

D

That we put means or subject to change or something on our website and our agendas.

E

And I think the problem with in terms of solutions canceling, it is not exactly a solution either.

E

Because you have a lot of people inconvenienced by that people may have taken off from work, because.

E

Of the meeting they may not care exactly whether it's in person or remote, but if they've taken off.

E

From work and all of a sudden cancel the meeting because of the change from in person to virtual.

E

We may have done more harm than than the location change, so I just think you know we got to balance.

E

All of those those things out so so and I think that's a good point jeff and why. Lastly, I made.

D

The decision not to cancel because business had to be done. There were certain plans that were in.

D

Place that they didn't want to wait another month until the month of um you know october, to hear.

D

From from the september, meaning they needed to move forward, so we don't want to hold that process.

D

Up either and as you all know, everyone's got busy lives. You will have other professions other.

D

Than being on professional planning, commission members um so saying well, we'll have a meeting.

D

The next day or the next week, that's problematic to even getting a forum. So I think these are all.

D

Great points of discussion and we'll continue to work on maybe some thoughts with that as well.

E

To the extent the discussion happens next month, when I'm not here, I, like matt's idea of you, know.

E

To the extent we can emphasize as reminding the public to maybe check back shortly before meetings.

E

Just in case those kinds of changes have to be made. I know that's not a perfect solution, but.

E

It's the best one I've heard so far, and I kind of like that because then it doesn't involve.

E

Canceling meetings and it does put a little bit of bonus on the public, but um that may be that may be.

E

The best way to balance the different issues that might make two cents on this. I like it. I like it.

E

As well, thank you we'll do that, and actually so. Thank you first, that kind of segue too, as well.

D

um Mr waters, so since you will not be here next week, jim, what are the rules for the election.

D

Can members be voted into it? Two positions chair and vice chair that we're voting on. Can members.

D

That are not present be elected to that office, or how does that work? um I mean there's nothing in.

I

The rules against a member who is not present at the meeting not being um elected to any position.

F

I think it should be customary that if you're not here, you're elected to something.

I

Is that another rule change proposal.

I

um But um so there there's nothing that uh would prevent a member who.

I

um Happens to be absent on that meeting date from being elected to a position within the commission.

E

Well, I will say that uh I'm honored to serve as vice chair someone else.

E

Would like to accept a nomination for that. I certainly would support that if I'm nominated.

E

I just will say that I would be happy to serve, even though I won't be here next time.

H

Yeah, we can't do it yet, but I don't think you've had nearly long enough at that job. So.

E

D

All right is there any other discussion for this um particular topic.

D

Okay, I haven't so anyway. I just wanted to bring you guys.

B

Sorry, next to uh next to july, 6th there's a question mark there's whether we should.

B

Cancel that meeting that's the week of july. Oh that's! We also have to set our calendar.

D

Thank you for that reminder. So laura did send ahead. That planning commission dates for 2022.

D

um And again, please look those over if you feel like there's any conflicts.

D

Or you would like to again typically around the holidays gets a little challenging so.

D

If we know ahead of time, we can either work around it to have an earlier meeting or just.

D

Cancel on especially wednesday needs in are very flexible and obviously it's more of a work session.

D

For us to have these types of discussions, typical business doesn't happen um so just.

D

Review that and, like laura said, pay particular attention to the july 6th meeting since july. 4Th.

B

And the december meeting, because, like this year it would normally fall on december 21st.

B

And we moved it up to the 14th next month, yep same thing for next year too. Thank you.

D

And again these will be decisions we'll vote on at the next meeting.

E

I won't be there, but I know I'm going to be away on july 6th of 2022.. I can tell you that so.

E

You don't have to cancel it for me, but I just we're going gonna be on vacation.

H

I think it's a pr, I think I'm.

H

Okay with both of them- and I think that july 4th always presents a problem so.

H

I'm good with canceling.

E

I know sometimes in the past, linda we've, we've.

E

Sort of left it on the calendar with an idea that we can see how much work is pending.

E

And then, if we have a quorum we can still go forward. But if not and there's still a lot of work.

E

Before us, we can try to find an alternate date. That's something I know. We've done, yeah absolutely.

D

And we don't have to take anything off, we can keep them there and just you know, as long as we give.

D

Ample notice remove those meetings. That's fine, especially the two wednesdays in a row. um If we.

D

Don't have a robust work plan? Why should we have two back-to-back meetings? That's not necessary.

D

Okay, well, that's all! I have for this particular matter.

D

There's no other questions, I'm done. Thank you so much.

A

Thank you and uh never seems to amaze me that every time we think.

A

uh The administrative rules procedures in operation can have no changes. We.

A

Always come up with something I think every year so with that we'll move on.

A

To item number now it's item number eight, the transportation master plan survey, two update.

D

I'm gonna stop sharing my screen price, so uh he can go ahead and give.

D

The I'm sorry for mary mary's gonna be giving the update on this. Thank you.

J

Thank you, um I'm here tonight to give you an update on what we are doing with the.

J

Transportation master plan. I should first tell you that when last we discussed this.

J

In the summer, caitlin harvey was um giving you an update on the first survey she has since left.

J

The department- so I will be doing this from now on with claire stewart- will be helping me out.

J

So, um as we said, there is a second survey out and I believe you all received it from laura and we've.

J

Been trying to get the word out as much as we can, I do know that we have more results already, even.

J

Though it was just dropped on october 20th, we have more than we did during the month of may last time.

J

So, just quickly on the purpose of this second survey is to identify travel patterns, congestion.

J

Issues and community interests in some new transportation opportunities it was built on.

J

The results from the first survey last spring you'll recall that we had that survey going for.

J

A month during the month of may this one has 12 questions with three optional mapping: questions.

J

So just a quick review of survey, one again it was may 2021 and our purpose was to find out.

J

How citizens travel related to their location and um type of travel? So we had a more diverse.

J

um Type of questions for that, rather than just congestion and roads, we got 200 responses.

J

The majority of the residents were from westminster and eldersburg.

J

And the majority also traveled within the county, to get to work or school which isn't.

J

Really that usual for carroll county, a lot of people, do leave the county to get to work. But.

J

For our respondents, that's what was represented so driving was the highest chosen mode of.

J

Travel with just about all the respondents, 198 out of 200 and 118 votes were for.

J

Everyday frequent respondents, so we did ask respondents to rank seven corridors in order.

J

Of utilization again, not surprisingly, uh route 140 route, 97 route, 32 and route 27.

J

And these travel patterns were consistent with our 2020 county corridor study findings.

J

So what we found the biggest concern was from respondents.

J

Was related to travel time, reliability and reduc reduction of traffic congestion with 32.5.

J

Participants choosing this is their top concern. The next highest selected concern was minimizing.

J

Impacts to natural resources and reducing wildlife collisions with 20 of people responding that way.

J

So when we put together the second survey we built on these results and included interactive.

J

Mapping options that would allow participants to show us to highlight their areas of concern.

J

I'm going to just go quickly through it without really taking it. um The first two questions just.

J

Want to know if you live in carroll county and if you work or commute through carroll county.

J

um The next few questions just want to know where you start your trip and again there's a map that.

J

That guides you toward that. What time you start, where you end your trip.

J

What time do you arrive at your destination and then the question of? Do you typically.

J

Experience congestion or intersections with long wait times on your way to your destination.

J

And this is the map that people are able to use. It's really the only way with the.

J

Type of mapping that we were doing that people could actually show us.

J

um You know where they're beginning and ending, for instance, if you're coming from frederick.

J

County and you're coming on maryland 26th you would identify taylor's fell, that's it's about as.

J

Close as we could come to people getting specific with us, but I think it's working pretty well so.

J

The next question is: do you typically experience congestion at intersections with long wait times.

J

And that is a yes or no question and then the what we're kind of excited about with the survey. And we.

J

Hope to use it again for other things. Is this um map where you can choose five areas of congestion.

J

And pinpoint them for us, so we will have very accurate results and I'll admit: we've.

J

Had a few glitchy things happen with this, but in general we're getting positive feedback on this.

J

So um do you think, there's a location along your route that needs traffic calming.

J

And also we're just curious has coveted changed your commuting patterns.

J

And we do have some information from the baltimore metropolitan council.

J

Where they're doing studies on that, so that will we'll use some of that in comparing it.

J

So this last section is really just we're just curious what people know what they're.

J

Interested in and we gave some of the newer transportation opportunities we.

J

Had to define a few of them because they're so new.

J

um But we wanted to know if people were interested in some of these um things of the future.

J

um And then, how likely they well first of all, they knew what they were and then how likely they are.

J

To use them and again we're interested in those results, because it is a futuristic plan. So then.

J

You submit your results, we will compile them, probably bring them back to you in december or.

J

Early january, it goes through again december 1st. You can take it for everybody watching.

J

Out there you can take it on the county website, homepage planning under transportation master plan.

J

You could scan this qr code, you could come to our county office building and take it. We have a kiosk.

J

Or you can take it through facebook, which I think is how a lot of people are taking. It.

J

So please share with community members. Hopefully people are.

J

Watching this we'd like to get a lot of results, um are there any questions.

F

I guess my question would be how how have we made the public aware that this is going on.

F

And are we confident that that's gotten out there um in a way that we we think it should.

J

I think we are confident um again, we have more results already and it's only been out for 12 days.

J

um But specifically, it's been on facebook. I know a lot of people follow us on facebook. We've sent it.

J

Out to the fdca, the pinksburg group, all the towns we've communicated with all of our towns about it.

J

um There was a press release on it, I'm not sure if it made the paper, but I have seen it on different.

J

Facebook different people have picked it up on facebook and are sharing it with other people.

J

um Linda is there any anything else it's about as much I mean, and our press release has a wide.

D

um You know has a wide net also, you know when we do a press release. It also goes after our.

D

Gov delivery, so anyone that subscribes to carroll county gets that. So I think, would.

D

Exhibit over two almost 300 people so far that have taken the survey. The second one.

J

It's more than 200, but um again it's only been out for 12 days. We still have much reminders.

J

No other questions. Okay, we'll take the survey.

D

You please do we would love to hear from you all. It's anonymous.

A

Thank you barry. Thank you.

A

So with that we'll move on to item nine, our water and sewer fall amendment. The introduction.

K

Good evening and if I'm able to share my screen now, that'd be great.

K

All right, uh this is the introduction to our 2021 fall amendment cycle. We do this twice a year.

K

um Due to just how our amendments work, so mainly, let me start it from the beginning: make it easier.

L

There we go, you know, come on.

K

Let me switch screen real, quick.

K

Let me reshare try that again, sorry about that.

K

Just try sharing the screen again.

K

K

So why don't we amend the plan? uh This is again the biannual amendment. So do it twice a year.

K

Typically, in the spring and in the fall between the triangle update, which is every three years.

K

And so pretty much an amendment can be initiated by an individual property owner.

K

By a system operator or town or depending on how things are going county staff.

K

You see that something needs to be need to be changed.

K

So this amendment includes three areas: the freedom, sykes, full sewer, sewer service area.

K

The westminster water service area and in the manchester water and sewer service area.

K

So first we'll look at the freedom sewer service area. Both the map and the table will have an.

K

Amendment taken care of so the portion that is highlighted in blue or outlined in blue.

K

Encircled, this is was a request from the owner to add. The property right now is in long range.

K

To put it into the priority service area, uh mainly because they're in the process of updating they.

K

Need to replace the septic system, and when you do some cost comparison, you realize you might as well.

K

Go ahead and connect to the sewer service area and, as you can see, he is surrounded by properties that.

K

Are in the service area and there's actually an easement already on that he has. That goes through.

K

This property uh behind him to tie into the sewer service area to return to the existing sewer.

K

So this is just one one unit, so be 250 gallons added to the actual demand for.

K

The freedom area and when we put that in the table.

K

Showing what the potential demand is is the 250 is so minimal. The numbers don't change at all.

K

And so I get an idea, so here's where it'll be.

K

There's a very light green area, but this is, um as you may know,.

K

Edelsberg exchange to give you an idea of where this is. This is the high school up in this area.

K

Now we're going to the westminster water service area- and this was brought to us by the city on.

K

Behalf of the property owner uh mr dole- and he owns, there's actually one parcel, but it appears to.

K

Be two: it's actually one parcel is split by this parcel right here he owns this. These parcels and.

K

They've been in the priority planning service area for the city of westminster, for as long as I've.

K

Been here there's also for, according to the letter he sent roughly 20 30 years, has been there for.

K

A long time so he was, he has no plans to do any type of development on this property. The city.

K

Again, on his behalf, has requested it to be removed completely from the service area, so this actually.

K

Will remove 7285 gallons of potential demand from the city of westminster service area? Was it.

K

This property can actually have 31 units potential and their multiplier is only 235 gallons per unit.

K

That's based on the water allocation policy that went into play back in 2018.

K

Again, this area is right down here. This is the stonegate community.

K

Our new communities in place this backs up to to that. However, again.

K

He has written a letter requesting to be removed that he has no.

K

Want at this point time to to actually do anything developing, so he wants to be out of a service area.

K

Altogether, manchester is where we have most uh aspect, both water and sewer.

K

The first one is just off of locust lane and it's known as the three russell's llc.

K

Just the property, that's actually shaded or encroach surrounded by blue, where the.

K

Property is actually larger, but this portion is in the town limits they are looking. They would.

K

Like to be removed, this portion x actually in the process of going or beginning the process of going.

K

Through site plan development for a solar solar farm, so this portion is looking to come out and.

K

They would like to again go from no plant to go from exist from priority to the long range which.

K

Does not have any effect on the demands table that we don't take into account for that at that aspect,.

K

This is the thomas tree farm property on the northern part of the town.

K

And this port, this property is again looking to come out. They have applied to go into the county.

K

And prez, so that's one of the reasons they're looking to come out. My understanding is also.

K

They're talking with the town to put a portion of the land along with working with ad preservation,.

K

I believe they're working to see if they can do some recharge area for the town itself.

K

This property is zoned both residential and conservation, and has the potential.

K

To we're removing a potential of 100 and roughly 101 units of usage.

K

This property: this coincides with the 2018 comprehensive plan that the town.

K

Adopted you may be familiar with this here: is the high school manchester valley high? This is the.

K

What was known as the lippie property, which was just annexed in to the town a couple of months ago,.

K

And this portion down here, I'm sure you're able to see my cursor or not, even though it shows it.

K

Has already been the lights have been plotted. This is a subdivision that was approved back in the 70s.

K

The developer would help woodhaven builders owns both parcels and they're. Looking to.

K

Only put 40 houses total on both parcels. This portion up here is already in the service area.

K

So we'd only be adding 32 homes. This one actually can account for eight homes is already in a.

K

Within the system, so we will be accounting for 32 homes across this. This total area.

K

This is another portion that is in this in the subdivision process. Right now is considered.

K

Patriots, overlook is what the name of the subdivision could be, but this is a pv manchester.

K

Llc and they're looking to portion of the property, this portion was just annexed into the town.

K

This property: this has a couple different properties that actually front park avenue. These.

K

Two portions right here are already existing as well as this portion right here, and this portion.

K

Was already in the system, so this portion that was just annexed in we're now bringing that in.

K

To the service area, for them to actually be able to connect and do their subdivision, so the overall.

K

Map itself is here's a three russell's llc, the solar farm, the lippie property woodhaven builders.

K

The thomas tree farm and then, of course, the painters overlook. This- is the water aspect.

K

The sewer mimics everything, except for the thomas tree farm, where thomas they they are currently.

K

Not in the service area at all, they were in the current service area for water, but not for sewer.

K

So again, here is.

K

Three uh three russell's llc coming out of the service area.

K

Again, the woodhaven properties bringing those these properties into the service area. They.

K

Were in long range, so they're now they're bringing them in based on their comp plan.

K

And the patriots overlook portion of which was since it was in the county.

K

Was in no planned service since central's annexed in is now being brought into place.

K

And looking at the overall map changes, you will see long range. These go to priority.

K

Again, this property is in no plan service. I'm sorry up here, no plan service.

K

So with the tables, manchester's tables.

K

They do move when it comes to the water aspect, but luckily the.

K

Thomas tree farm with this amount of water that there could recruit for not having to.

K

Serve the 100 and 107 properties definitely helped with the demands, so the demands did.

K

Not fluctuate as much as they would have if that was not a property. The west semester.

K

Portion their demands went down um so, as so in essence, the residential went down so.

K

It's cumulative, so the priority planning numbers would go down again, so that would reflect into.

K

Future planning and, as you can see, they only have potential of 3.3 total demand versus the.

K

Capacity of 5.2 million, so they are well they're doing well with water and same with manchester.

K

Sorry sewer wise again the numbers for freedom. The previous number was 2.4.

K

39 million gallons and that 250 gallons a day didn't move the needle at all. So that number.

K

Stays exactly the same in the manchester number. They have gone and went up a little bit but again.

K

Not as it's not anything dire, they're.

K

Still in very good shape when it comes to uh total demand versus their capacity.

K

So what I've we've completed so far you saw is the maps the demand tables.

K

And last week the town of manchester's planning commission certified their.

K

This their part of the amendment consistent with their master, with their comprehensive plan.

K

So the next steps is I'll, be going in front of the westminster planning commission on the 17th for.

K

Their planning commission to certify, however, the day before I'll, be coming in front of you again.

K

For our planning commission to certify.

K

Based on provisional, that westminster will certify. There is the next the next evening and then we'll.

K

Forward it to the board of county commissioners and then hopefully get on their agenda either.

K

Right before, or after thanksgiving or the first part of december.

D

We'll have to have a host of public hearing for this, just as we do so just it'll be three times.

D

With the commissioners, intro request, republican public hearing and then adoption sorry price.

D

Didn't wanna? Okay, no! Your job is totally fine, so that was the the quick uh intro to.

K

The amendment cycle- just so you know uh we are actually in the process of the trial.

K

Update which happens every three years so I have met with three towns so far and we have three more.

K

Meetings coming up with two more to get on the books, so we are that process we're hoping to have.

K

Close to being done, and by the end of next year by the end of 2022 december, so pretty much a.

K

Year from now, we're hoping to if things work well and they're in all the maps and there's not many.

K

Big changes and luckily with when it comes to westminster and tommytown, as you may remember,.

K

Spring of this year I get confused this year or was it last year with copenhagen they did a revamp.

K

Totally for their chapters and maps, so there's not much to be done for westminster and tawny.

K

Town which, besides freedom, are the two larger jurisdictions when it comes to water and sewer.

K

So that may actually help us a little bit to shrink that timeline timeline song. So.

K

Are there any questions pertaining to the intro before before I leave and, of course,.

K

I'll bring it back to you in two weeks for certification and consistency to our our plans.

A

um I do have one question and I don't know if it's appropriate to ask you.

A

um The property, the tree farm, thomas tree farm in manchester um has their ag pres been approved.

K

No, it has not, they have just gone into the application process. Okay, I guess the one.

A

Concern I have is, I thought it was our policy to not approve ag prez in our designated growth areas.

K

And that is a very good question. You are correct. We are in the process of uh multi.

K

As part of their their ag as part of the application, the town has.

K

Stated they'll take them out of the desert, their designated growth area, because that's part of the.

K

Town designated growth area, I will be sending a change, and I've already been talking with the.

K

Maryland, department of planning to have this portion removed from our priority funding area.

K

And then we would have to change when we update our comp plan. We would have to show that this.

K

Portion now is not going to be within the growth area, so, as you are correct, when it comes to that.

K

Aspect: okay, do they have do? They have to then provide a kind of one-on-one acreage of another.

A

Area to increase to account for that loss in our designated growth area, or is that just.

A

Up to the town to decide that's up to the towns, this is actually part of their growth area. They.

K

They put this in the growth there at the 2018 comp plan and then they.

K

And then I guess the thomas tree farm decided after the fact you know a couple years later.

K

To go and try to go for the ag credit program, so they have to have to come out.

K

So this was not in the town's growth area prior to the 2018 manchester comprehensive plan. Okay for.

K

The 2018 comprehensive plan when they updated it, the town, put it within their growth area.

K

To expand to this this property now the thomas tree farm is requested for them to.

K

Be removed from the growth area, so they can go for the agres classification through the county.

F

Cynthia I'll say I appreciate you asking that question because I had I I don't know how ag.

F

Press works and how you apply for it, and what our role in that is aside from something like this and.

F

And I had the same thought that you know here: we have these areas that are designated for growth.

F

Why are we bringing them into ag prez when that that basically limits, you know.

F

That that growth areas potential in some way, so I I I think I need a tutorial on how that works.

F

Because again, we're going into that that to where we're going to be talking about.

F

That that language and I would like to better understand that process- you know how it works.

F

With what we do, I don't want to slow down ag press. I don't want to get involved in that.

F

I just want to understand exactly what you're asking how it fits in with the planning process.

F

So I appreciate you asking the question because I had I was going to ask somebody on the sidebar.

A

Thank you price, any other questions for price.

A

I guess it sounds like we don't have any say about the actual designated growth area. It's.

A

Up to the town, okay, we actually do. um Typically, multiple birth areas are currently decided by.

D

The municipality and the county, um and so you know I guess if we wanted to.

D

Not agree with this change for them, we could, you know, go out and tell them look. You need to.

D

Add something else you can't take that at the growth area we could work through. You know.

D

Department of planning and there's an arbitration process if two parties don't agree, um you know.

D

I would say: that's more: for expansion of the municipal birth into the canada been a contraction.

D

um With that, but I mean there certainly is that opportunity, but again this isn't a town's decision.

D

Necessarily with this particular property, because not a property owner doesn't even.

D

Want to be a part of the birth area, so it's more driven by that than the channel itself.

F

And in fact that's I'm sorry go ahead. I was just gonna say I think. Well, our designated growth.

A

Areas are highly totally dependent upon public water and sewer. If I'm not mistaken, manchester.

A

Owns and operates both the water and sewer system correct. So that's also another aspect. There too.

F

What I was going to ask linda was at the outset, when these designated growth areas were created.

F

Was there some sort of acclimation that property owners were asked to provide to say, hey.

F

We're doing this, do you want to be in, or do you want to be out? I mean.

F

Or did we just draw lines in the sand? Honestly, it goes back to 1964.. That's when we created.

D

Them so I mean that was a good vision. We should concentrate birthing areas instead of having.

D

Sprawl development: you want your development around towns, where there's infrastructure.

D

um How those individual boundaries were drawn, whether it was a joint venture between the.

D

County and the municipality or the municipalities decided something else, but there's two things.

D

Designated growth there's a carroll county term: that's not an official term anywhere.

D

Municipal growth theory is an official legal, maryland recognized term and what.

D

That is, is that the ultimate annexable area for that municipality- that's.

D

That's where they want their corporate limits to be. They have to prescribe that by law, to annex.

D

And the reason is that municipalities at one point in time were really annexing a lot of land just.

D

To have them as like a land grab that they never had the intent to really serve, or they would hope.

D

They would have the infrastructure, 30 or 40 years down the future. So this was the compromise between.

D

The municipalities and the counties to come to an agreement about you have to show a supply demand.

D

Test to to it's, to have your boundary to be a certain size, not so much the small. It's the big.

A

Okay, thank you. Any other comments.

A

A

um With that, I guess we're moving on to item number 10, which is.

A

General public comment, but it doesn't look like we have any public on the line.

A

And I don't know before we go on close session linda. If you want me to make my announcement.

A

So uh I believe this is likely my last meeting uh on the carroll county.

A

Commission planning and zoning commission, I have sold my house and I go on closing and next friday.

A

So I will no longer be a carroll county resident. I will be moving to howard county.

A

So to a very different area, so um yeah, it's been nine over nine years now on the commission.

E

Wow, that's a bombshell you're dropping on us tonight. Well, it was a bombshell to me. I did.

A

Not think my house would sell so quickly, but it basically sold the day. I put it up on the market.

A

So um wow I've been basically a chicken with my head cut off the past two weeks.

A

I am going from a house to an apartment, so I have a huge you talk about downsize.

A

C

Well, this is cynthia yeah I'll go ahead, jeff, I'm sorry, no pete go ahead. I I'll say two times two.

F

Things one is: I'm gonna, take a portion of this conversation offline with you at some point and.

F

And just tell you if you need some help, moving boxes and stuff call me, I've got an suv. I don't.

F

Have a truck I'm too old to move boxes? The second to that you all don't know this cynthia called and.

F

Offered to have lunch with me when I came on to this, and I really appreciated that, because.

F

I needed I I I need help, as you all know, a therapy at some point.

F

Is in my but um uh cynthia I I you're a great leader and um it's I've enjoyed following you.

F

And and I've learned a few things from you too, and I appreciate all of that. Thank you.

A

Thank you. Well, I just want to say number one offer you my personal condolences for moving.

E

To howard county but um beyond that I want to say uh it's been an absolute thrill and.

E

Pleasure uh working with you all these years, I mean you were an alternate for a while.

E

And then became a full member and then vice chair and chair and that's all been well deserved and.

E

We're all better for it, so I just want to say how much I personally have enjoyed working with you.

E

I've learned a lot. You have such great questions. The engineering side of you, uh you know comes in.

E

And asked all these questions I never in a million years would have fought over even known to ask so.

E

Carroll county is a better place thanks to your leadership, so we're going to miss you very much.

A

Thank you. Yes, I echo that every bit of it and jeff I'm thinking tag you're. It.

E

I won't be here next meeting. Doesn't matter, no stones nose goes jeff. Those guys.

A

Yeah I am moving. I am moving right next to the columbia mall to a very nice apartment, building.

A

That uh I can walk everywhere. I need to go good for you and bike ride my bike cynthia. This is.

L

Gene I want to echo essentially everything that everybody said just had one little.

L

Tidbit, I think I came in approximately a year before you did.

L

So I didn't have some tenure arguing, but that's about the only thing I excelled.

L

During that nine or ten years it was just such a joy to watch. You grow as an individual.

L

In the profession that you're in and and see you get your kids off and starting a good life that.

L

It was really a pleasure knowing you and being your what I consider a friend.

L

Good luck and uh hard county won this battle.

C

I'd like to say, I've been on here very long and haven't really got to meet you. I think in.

C

Person yet so, but I really appreciate what you've done over the years and.

C

You've definitely been a good leader. Thank you. Thank you, everybody. um Unfortunately, I would not.

A

Like to have to do this next part, we have to do of our meeting, um you know, but uh it is what it is.

A

And so with that, we're gonna make two motions make sure I do this right linda. Do the thing.

A

I'm going to need a motion to go into a closed meeting. We need to go into a closed meeting.

A

For personnel reasons, and then after that, if somebody could please also make a motion to.

A

Adjourn, we will adjourn the meeting after we are done our closed session. So first off our.

A

First motion: all right: this is jeff I'll. Take a shot at this I'll make a motion that we go into.

E

Closed session for personnel issues I'll second, that can we just do a voice vote champion. I think.

A

We just do a voice coach and what do you think? No? It has to be roll call. Okay, sorry, mr alley,.

D

Mr canale, oh yes, yes,.

D

Mr hoff, yes, ms carpenter, yes, mr waters, yes, mr lester, yes fiber in favor and the motion.

D

Carries to move into closed section and then the motion to adjourn after our closed meeting. Please.

E

um This is jeff I'll, make a motion that we adjourn after the closed session I'll second.

A

Can that be a voice vote? Yes? Okay, all in favor, all right! Okay, with that, I am gonna.

A

Go into closed meeting for the carroll county planning and zoning commission.

A