Carroll County, MD Carroll County Planning and Zoning Commission, 15 Nov 2022

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From YouTube: Carroll County Planning and Zoning Commission November 15, 2022

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https://www.carrollcountymd.gov/government/boards-commissions/planning-zoning-commission/

A

Good morning, everyone welcome to the planning and zoning commission november 15 2022.

A

And I think we probably ought to establish quorum.

A

Good morning, mr walthers here miss kirkner here mr lester you're, mr hawk here, mr smith. Here mr klosik.

B

The last time I'll be saying this, commissioner, lance here secretary eisenberg here, mr chair.

C

Please let the record reflect that seven members are present and we do have a quote.

C

Thank you. Let's stand for the pledge of allegiance.

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Pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america.

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Which is mission, under god, invisible with liberty and justice for all.

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Right next item on our agenda is review and approval of the agenda.

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Are there any changes to the one that's been submit to us? Well, you've seen we.

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Had two revisions to the agenda, the first revision was there was an incorrect uh date.

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For the administrative rules for the 2023 proposed meeting dates and then the next.

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Revision was the removal of item number 10, which was the concept site plan for.

E

A lens stoller, second amended: they pulled that from today's meeting. Okay, so those are the two.

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All right so, with those adjustments, is there a motion to approve the agenda.

F

I'm move. We approved today's agenda a second and second, um any further discussion. All in favor aye.

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Still unanimous move on to item five, which is review and approval of the minutes from.

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October, 18th and november 2nd suggested edits or corrections to those needs.

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Not I'd be happy to entertain a motion that would be approved and make those approved minutes.

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Okay. Second second motion. Second, any further discussion: all in favor, aye, dunwich, unanimous also.

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um The minutes from the 18th of october and the second of november are approved.

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Commission member reports, um the other thing I'd like to say, is that it's by understanding.

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This is commissioner lance's last meeting was that right, that's correct, sir. So I'd.

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Like to use this platform to say thank you, it's been a genuine pleasure working with you and.

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On this commission and uh you've brought so much to it, your insight, your patience.

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um Your uh just thoughtfulness and guidance- and I think we're all better for that, and so just.

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Want to stay on behalf of the commission. Thank you we'll miss you thank. You means a.

D

Lot I appreciate that you're very welcome. Is there anything you'd like to say, what's your.

D

uh It's kind of bittersweet matt before I forget, as often as I've sat on that stupid.

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Bridge I'd love to run or walk across it so congrats to to grant on on that. But.

D

um Yeah kind of bittersweet, um you know we're I'm on my farewell tour. If you will this week a.

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Lot of committees still to come, uh but uh you know I always say thank you to to you folks.

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We've seen some really good planning members come and go. I think we've got an incredible.

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An incredible group right now that you guys had some have had some interesting and difficult.

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Decisions and there'll be more to come, but you've handled those incredibly well and that's just not.

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Coming for me, it's coming from all of my colleagues. We truly appreciate the fact.

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That uh that you, you you are, are focused and you have the best interest of the county and I think.

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We have a great group of people here, so it goes without saying that we truly do appreciate we're.

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Only as good as the folks we surround ourselves with- and uh you are certainly a big part of that.

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So thank you to all of you uh for for all that you've done. I know a couple one or two, maybe.

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Going off here at some point, but several of you will be here for a while. So uh thank you.

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For for stepping up- and we truly do appreciate that a lot of accomplishments in the in the.

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Last eight years, this group of commissioners, I believe, has done you know a remarkable job. We.

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We went through that crazy thing called a master plan uh that uh did you sleep at all for like no.

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uh We've we've gone through comprehensive uh rezoning to the nth degree that I don't.

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Think has ever been done before in the history of this county. We just finished up our ag. Remainder.

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uh Decisions uh last week was it I'm losing track of time. Eye conservation was complete.

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Right so uh as it pertains to what you guys, do, we've done a lot as well and.

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We can only do that working together and we truly think that we're working together now and we're.

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Very hopeful that the next group coming in 19 days away who's counting uh we'll we'll take that.

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That torch and run with it- and uh you know that's this county- does an amazing job and, in my travels.

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Most of you know that I've represented carol in a lot of things in the state and there's no question.

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In my mind, based on listening and working with my colleagues around the state that we do it better.

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Than anybody we really do so we have a lot to be proud of. So I appreciate the kind words jeff I'm.

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Not disappearing, contrary to what the rumors are I'll be around, I got mom and dad here and kids. So.

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Not going anywhere anytime soon, but um it's been, it's been an honor and a privilege to serve all.

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Of you over the last eight years, not something a lot of folks get to say, and I take that with the.

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Utmost respect, so thank you to you all and listen keep up the good work. You're doing amazing work.

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Down here all of you- and you know, jeff all of us with janice we've said this before to our staff.

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I mean talk about top notch, you I mean they're, just the best staff anywhere and.

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That will for forever be ingrained in my mind too, because geez I hit hear the horror stories.

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And other counties and I'm like good grief, uh we got some really good people and dedicated.

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Just like you are so so thank you very much keep up the good work and uh I'm pretty sure I.

D

May be watching from time to time that sounded like a threat now we'll be up to three viewers.

A

Commissioner, that all means a lot. Thank you very much. Thank.

D

You thank you. Thank you. Any other members.

A

Very good: um well then, uh madam secretary, we'll turn it over to you for the administrative.

A

Report good morning, everyone and again, thank you, commissioner, wins for your service. Your.

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Support to this planning commission to me and to my staff we could not have done it without.

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This board of commissioners, all the things that we've accomplished over the last eight years and.

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Most recently, the comprehensive reason I mean I'm going to brief you all on an update regarding that.

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We have a pretty quick meeting so to speak today a lot coming up, but I did want to brief you on.

E

Where we ended up with the ag conservation, as commissioner wentz said, we completed that and.

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The commissioners officially adopted it, um I'm sorry. This pass is squirrely officially.

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Adopted it, oh, what was that last week, mary the week before the dates are all getting blurred.

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um Adopted it and most of the recommendations that this body made moved forward with the board of.

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County commissioners, we had a lot of discussion. We had a really good public hearing with some public.

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Comment coming in mostly regarding agreemanders, and that was the biggest change from what this.

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Body sent up to the board of county commissioners was the discussion of how to handle remaining.

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Portions on ag properties, so basically, what that is, we've talked about this before is once the.

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Residential densities have been removed, there's still ability to develop on those properties.

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And how you can developers, what are the primary principle uses and conditional uses within the.

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Ag zone, and so those would be like your schools, daycare, centers religious establishments, um things.

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Of that nature that can be built, um assisted living on ag remaining portions and those were.

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Unlimited, in the extent that it was the carrying capacity of the ag remaining.

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Portion so the commissioners, uh you know, review that information and commissioner weaver felt.

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Particularly strongly that we review um how how much how much more do we want to really.

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Do with that, do we want to limit its ability to move any further, um to be able to to subdivide.

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Those even more and maybe put some limits on the ag remaining portions, I'm just going.

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To pull up for you and I apologize where this ended up, so you can just see the text itself.

E

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Conservation, this was the last of the district, so I'm happy to say we have scrubbed the code.

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We went through things not to say that we won't have amendments from time to time and.

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You all have seen different amendments come forward on various things. As time goes on, I.

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Mean the the codes are organic they're they're, changing they have that potential to change so.

E

I will just show you mary: is this a summary.

B

No, but this is all of the 158 changes that we're actually about correct. I okay, perfect.

E

So the agritourism definition was adopted, um the country and event facility change um to re, delete.

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That definition of country and that's been very problematic over the years, um so that was amended.

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um The purposes of the districts were changed to reflect. What's in the master.

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Plans for agricultural and conservation really did a lot of um looking at the.

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Use tables and really distinguishing between agricultural zoning and conservation, zoning. What.

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Conservation means limiting a lot of the more intense uses in those conservation districts.

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um Changed how accessory dwelling units are allowed on these properties to allow them.

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To be detached, as opposed to attached, so we have those additional options so.

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It doesn't change, what's allowed just changes, how they're developed or built.

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Changing contractor equipment storage yards to have a minimum acreage and different separation.

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Requirements as well as commercial kennels and then for 155, which is the subdivision.

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Cluster development with was the same amendment that was done in the residential districts, where.

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You don't have to do basically the conventional plan, as well as the cluster plan, in order to.

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Have the cluster approved, it will now be formula based on what, and that was to establish density.

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The formula based on to establish what did the clustered density would be allowed.

E

um And this was the biggest change, as I said, the agriculture remaining portions, um so the.

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Development on ag remaining portions for non -agricultural purposes will be limited to one use.

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That is the proposal that went forward with the board of county commissioners to public hearing.

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um There was a lot of opposition to just the one use, so at the end of the day, the commissioners.

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Came up with a compromise, and so now it is two uses and it's on a scale based on acreage. So.

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um 0 to 40 acres is one additional use on a remaining portion and greater than 40.

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Is two additional uses and you still get your subdivision portion, so you would still that's.

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The remaining portion, so you still take off your residential densities and then.

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um You would be left with two additional uses, depending on the size of your remaining portion.

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Board development- and that was really the biggest change that, as I said, that came out of this.

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So again, this proposal limits development to one non-agricultural use for the first 40 acres and.

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Two for properties over 40, not including the remaining allowed residential uses.

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And so those are the big changes um that happened in the ag conservation district. These go into.

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Effect december 1., so anyone that has a site plan in process. They've worked with development.

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Review prior to that december, 1st action date then they're good. They can proceed with the.

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Plans that they've they have so um they're we've grandfathered, that in as we did with the other.

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Zoning districts as we've gone through this we've, always grandfathered in projects and process.

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Because we don't want want to penalize anyone for having promoted and worked on something and make.

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Them change midway, so those are the changes that we have from our portion of the ad conservation. Do.

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You have any questions or comments. Okay, the reason I say it that way is because laura matthias, her.

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Team worked on, as you know, a lot of revisions to 155 over the last several months. They were.

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A lot of technical changes here you go laura um and they just completed those and had those.

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Adopted as well so we're just going to briefly update you on those changes um also just want.

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To point out that we are meeting with the board of zoning appeals to walk them through what the.

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Changes are and to update them, so they can also hit the ground running, as we did with the other.

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Districts, we met with them and presented to them what the changes are. So they know when projects.

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Come before them from bza what is applicable and what's changed just so they can be aware. I mean.

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Obviously they read the code themselves, but I think always a briefing is helpful.

E

For them, but the changes seem relatively minor, very much so and actually left here absolutely.

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um And melvin bale was part of our group, the work group, and then he was part of our concept team.

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And mary's been working very closely with him, so we know that the bza as well is really well.

E

Informed but we just want to again brief them on the entire changes of the ad conservation.

C

Right, thank you all right, awesome good morning, so the 155 changes you saw those as well.

G

um Before they went to the board of accounting commissioners and that I didn't write, the adoption.

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Date down, but uh it was in october, the board heard it again as a final and adopted everything that we.

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Had proposed- and I don't have a visual for you- because most of our changes were for they were.

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Streamlining clarity, predictability of our code, so reorganization, to make it very clear. I I want to.

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Subdivide: okay: uh how what can you do and how do you do it right? So we put everything in sequence:.

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In our code, to make it very clear for someone, especially who's opening that, for the first time.

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um So again, I think the biggest highlight for us is that we have absorbed our development review.

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Manual into the code, whatever was necessary from this manual, we will invite you all to.

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The retirement party for the manual- you will never see this again, stop stop that's exciting.

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For us, so that's been absorbed into the code and some key things um that we added were not only.

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From the manual but definitions that we felt were missing, they were maybe in the zoning code, but not.

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In our code, but very relative to our code, um so we pulled that in and then in the manual. We also had.

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Simplified site plans which you're familiar with at a certain level. You don't see those because.

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They get through it more of an administrative process, so we pulled those criteria into the code.

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Codified dot, the other exciting thing I I think exciting for us maybe, um but we were in regards to.

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Plans of subdivision we were getting road frontage dedication to the county. We weren't seeing that.

G

With site plans, it wasn't required, so we did add that into the code except in the ag district. So.

G

That will that will be a positive. I think overall um key things that were removed. We still had maybe.

G

It was, uh I would say, antiquated at this point, because of how we process our site plans. We had.

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A plan called environmental site delineation that used to be submitted in advance of a plan.

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Which showed all the environmental aspects well, nowadays, all of that is is compiled into the plan.

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Sets that you see that we see so, there was no need to have an additional requirement so that.

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Was removed? The other big item was that we took our parking space requirements, so the.

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Requirements are typically based on the use right and how many employees or your square footage.

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Etc, so the use goes hand in hand with the zoning code and the uses, as outlined in the zoning code.

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So we worked together with planning zoning to get those parking space requirements put into.

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The zoning code and put those in an appropriate place in the zoning code now the design elements.

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Of that which relates to the site plan are staying within 155. So what what you have in.

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Terms of design is still in there, but how many spaces you have will be in the zoning code so.

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um And the other thing that may impact you to a certain person's degree is the a modification.

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That we made to an administrative modification where, by the these use in common driveways, which.

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You saw a couple last month right for a width variance. We modified the percentage that the.

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Director can review that doesn't mean that they won't ever come back before you. It just means that.

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The director has a little more leeway in their authority to review those, and if it comes down.

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A lot of these technical right, um what's what's the hardship right, is there actually like a sight.

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Hardship with the contours with impeding on a wetland etc. So from a technical standpoint, the.

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Director will be able to review those and issue those modifications if they see fit so that could.

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Be good news for you all. Hopefully it sounds like we'll then only get the controversial ones.

A

Well right: we want to keep it exciting. We don't want to take all of that off your plate, so.

G

So that that's a summary of the 155 changes and they will be going into.

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Effect, the same day we're compiling everything together and that december.

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First date will be the date that you'll see those changes so very good.

A

Thank you laura. Thank you. Do you have any extensions? No okay. So no extensions, then.

E

um For this month, so that's good um and then I'll have abigail rogers brief you on bza cases.

C

Good morning good morning, so we have um on october 5th there was the continuation.

C

Of 6404, which was mulligan recovery center- that was the substance, abuse recovery center.

C

And that was in the r 10000 zone of westminster and that case was denied.

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And we only have for november 1 case coming up on the 30th and that's case, 6419 hawkstad.

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Properties llc: it's a contractor's equipment, storage yard with variances in the agricultural.

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Zone off hanover pike in manchester, and that's commissioner district one and we the planning.

C

Staff found the use consistent and, once again, that'll be heard on the 30th. Thank you. Thank you.

E

um And mary is the 30th the day that you're going before the bza yep, so the 30th? That's when we'll.

E

Be briefing the bza on these changes that take effect the next day, so so they'll have that before.

E

That happens. um I have no other updates from the administrative report this morning. All right.

A

Thank you um so we'll go on to item eight, which is election of commission chair vice chair and.

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Secretary, um so it looks like we have some notes to work through here.

E

In your packet, yes, to walk through the elections, all right so we'll work, our.

A

Way through this, so I'll begin with hold the record open for the board position.

A

Of secretary, are there any nominees for the board position of secretary.

F

Linda eisenberg for the board position of secretary very good.

A

A motion: is there a second, a second? Okay. We have a second, so we have a.

A

Motion- and we have a second- are there any other nominations for the board position of secretary.

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Hearing none all those in favor of electing linda eisenberg for the board position of.

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Secretary, please say: aye aye, congratulations! Madam secretary, thank you give you the gavel.

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For the brief moment in time, thank you power that resides in that. Yes, you want to sit here, linda.

A

All right, it's not the ceremonial gavel um in accordance with the rules and procedures of the.

E

Planning and zoning commission of carroll county and now declare nominations open for the office.

E

Of chair, so I need a board member to nominate um one of your counterparts to the office of chair.

F

I would like to nominate jeff weathers for the office of chair and is there a second.

E

Jeff walthers has been nominated and seconded for the office of chair. Are there any other.

E

Nominations from the floor: okay, seeing none. I would like to close the nomination.

E

For the office of chair and have a vote to elect jeff walthers for the office of chair.

E

All those in favor signify by saying aye, aye, aye, okay, so congratulations.

E

Mr wabash chairs [laughter] still go back and they're going to vote for vice chair.

A

All right, thank you all very much. We now accept nominations for the office of vice chair.

H

I'll make the motion to nominate janice kirkner.

H

And is there a second second very good? Are there any other nominations for vice chair.

A

We'll close the nominations for vice chair um and I think we actually need a motion and a.

A

Second, to close, the nominations for vice chair is there a motion that we close the nominations.

A

Of our questions, I'll move it close. Second, second, okay, so that's been moved and seconded.

A

um All of those in favor of the motion to elect janice curtner for vice chair, please say aye.

A

Sounds unanimous to me. Congratulations vice chair um and I think that concludes the election process.

E

Yeah great congratulations! Thank you, mr walters and ms kirkner for serving as chair and vice chair.

E

For the next year, as you know, we do this every november. So if you wish to serve in the future.

E

2023 and thank you all very much, I appreciate you. I've had to do a long time.

A

Next, we'll go on to item nine, which is administrative rules.

A

And proposed 2022 meeting dates. They were provided to us in our packet and are there any changes to.

A

The administrative rules from last year: no, there are no changes to the administrative rules from.

E

Time to time we have had issues that have come up over the course of a year that have you know.

E

Alerted us to maybe making some very minor changes to this. This is the first year in a while that we.

E

Have not had to make any changes um to our rules of procedure and operation so do we need to resign.

E

These again jim for this year, okay yep, so we need to sign and approve the administrative rules.

E

Of procedure and operation, as presented in your packets, do we need to approve that? I just want to.

E

Sign those I think we probably do probably it'd, be prudent to hold a motion approval correct. I guess.

A

Should we do it separately for the meeting dates and the do we need to approve the meeting dates.

E

um We should yes and we'll go back to that. Just want to make sure there's just a couple.

E

Of differences in dates, okay, why don't we start with the administrative rules and procedure and.

A

Operation, so um is there a motion to approve a move? We approve the amended administrative.

I

Rules and procedures and operations of the carroll county planning and zoning commission, as amended.

I

November 16 2021. I'll say we keep it, as is second all right. So we have a motion and a second to.

A

Approve the rules as amend administrative rules 2021. Is there any further discussion about these.

A

I would, I would just know, we've had good discussions over the years. We've dealt.

A

With the idea of virtual and snow days and um how the alternate works and the authority, I.

A

Think we've added some nice clarity there and predictability. So I have a very high comfort.

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Level with uh with these rules, so we have a motion. We have a second all, those in favor.

A

Please signify by saying aye aye: okay, the rules are they stand approved, I'm signing them now.

A

Passing them to madam clerk.

A

Thank you and then um so we have the 2023 proposed meeting dates and madam secretary, were there some.

A

Items you want to point out yeah just a few again. We have our first wednesday of the month evening.

E

Meeting we have winter makos january 4th through the 6th. So right now we still anticipate having.

E

That coming off the holidays, however, there may not be an ex-officio in attendance for that, so.

E

Just wanted to make you more unless there's any changes that, if there's any reason that you think.

E

We should cancel that meeting. Maybe that was something we can discuss now before we adopt.

E

This and not have that meeting. um As always, we look at the july 4th week and july 5th happens.

E

To be a wednesday evening, so we've typically canceled that in the past, if that is something.

E

You still want to continue we'll cancel that day as well um august. 15Th is summer makeup, however,.

E

Mako won't start till the 16th, so I suggest we keep that and not switch the date for that meeting.

E

um And again uh november 21st is our daytime meeting. So um you know thoughts on changing.

E

That to the 14th, like we've done this year, to move a week before the thanksgiving holiday.

E

um And then the evening of december 6th is the winter mako. um That will be more robust. That.

E

Year because we'll have a whole missed a whole year with new elected officials, and it might be.

E

A little challenging um for that december 6th date and then again the december 19th, which I think is.

E

Far enough from the christmas holiday that we can um leave that, as is so, do you have any proposed.

E

Would you like to have some of these and meet meeting dates amended now before we adopt this.

F

July 5th definitely cancel that yeah. Should we should we cancel that or move it to the.

J

12Th, my thought is: there's a lot of stuff coming down the pipeline and.

J

To have that gap? Well, we have a meeting on the 18th.

F

So, in keeping in mind july summer, vacation months it tends to get a little um tough. So I would I.

F

Would be okay with just canceling and I could go either way. I'm just thinking to just keep things.

J

Process well, it is a work session, so it's not typically a business meeting where we would be.

E

Taking action on site plans or subdivision, so this is more of a you know: a planning exercise.

E

You know anything that we'd have to bring up on anything that we're currently working on, and I.

E

Think one wednesday we can, you know, get away with they're pretty flexible for those virtual evening.

E

Meetings- and we intend to do that, continue to do that, virtually [music] that you all would like to.

E

See, I think, the wednesday work sessions virtually have been working out. Quite nice works well.

I

I appreciate y'all letting us do it that way. um So yeah I mean if I, if, if we were to take.

I

These one at a time, it makes sense to me that we would cancel the july 5th meeting.

E

It's on the january 4th meeting yeah the january 4th. I tend to think we probably.

A

Ought to just go ahead and, and we've done that historically, we've gotten rid of it. Yeah.

A

um It's coming out of the holidays. You've got it the competition with winner mako, um so I think.

A

That I don't think it's going to interfere with the business of the commission, yeah or.

A

To get rid of this january 4th evening meeting unless someone feel strongly no good, contrary.

A

um The um I would be inclined to keep the august 15th in place. I know we've got the summer mako, but.

A

um You know, as we get to the end of july, we get a sense of sort of our.

A

Workload at that point, if it looks like we don't need to have it, we can make a.

A

Decision then, but maybe better to keep that absolutely that went on on the schedule.

A

um December 6th was the other one that uh november 21st. We want to move that to the.

E

14Th, oh yeah, yeah change that to the 14th for thanksgiving um and december 6th.

A

Probably I don't know, I'm I'm well, we have one on the 29th. If we do one.

H

On the 29th, I think that's true. That's an excellent point. They're both evening.

A

Meetings yeah, so I think we could cancel the get rid of the december 6th one. Okay.

A

So it looks like then, the amendments are we'll delete january 4th elite january july 5th.

A

I'm gonna um change the 21st to the of november to the 14th of november, due to thanksgiving and.

A

Delete december 6th perfect so with those are there, any other proposed changes that anyone.

A

Would like to make yep looks good all right so, with those edits, I'd be happy to entertain.

A

A motion that the dates be approved. I make the motion that we accept the changed calendar. The.

H

Amended calendar second, now all right, so we have a motion a second any further discussion.

A

All in favor aye opposed or thinning, it sounds like we have an approved meeting schedule.

A

For 2023., okay, all right great! Thank you so much. Thank you.

A

um Let's see so item 10 is deleted.

A

um So next we have a recess. I guess, and then we've got two discussion items is that right, that's yeah.

E

And we don't need the recess unless you would like to yes. Does anyone need a recess, or do you want to.

E

Move nope: okay: let's roll on into uh what was item 12 um historic preservation, commission discussion.

H

That recess all right, um so at our last meeting we discussed with you the possibility of establishing.

E

The commission of the historic preservation commission under the planning commission have the.

E

Planning commission, as needed from time to time, sit in as the hpc. So with that I have hannah and.

E

Jim with me today, to kind of go over that we might have had a little glitch, though in the ability to.

E

Do this we've recently found out so I'm gonna have jen, explain to you a little bit about where we are.

E

And where we can possibly go with this, because we thought it would be a good idea to try to merge.

E

The group and and do something different because you know it's so hard to stand up these volunteer.

E

Groups and they're down to limited membership so with that I'm gonna sure jim. Thank you so.

K

um In working through all this, um it's uh there were some legal wrinkles that we're going to need.

K

To iron out um dealing with the establishment of of the authority of the historic preservation.

K

Commission under the umbrella, so to speak, of the planning commission um just to give you a sort.

K

Of thousand view uh view of sort of how state law interacts with uh local law is the county.

K

Doesn't have any police power when it comes to issues with historic preservation, all the power.

K

That the county gets from historic preservation comes from the state and the state does that.

K

Through enabling legislation and they've um in the land use article, article 8 have provided.

K

um Enabling legislation for local governments and municipalities to establish uh historic.

K

Preservation commissions to um you know, look over historic districts, um approve improvements.

K

Of structures in historic districts approve easements, um so that is, the state has given.

K

The counties, the ability to create such a commission to do to have that authority.

K

um The counties, on the other hand, um have the ability to draw the boundaries of historic.

K

Districts- and it is the counties through zoning and permits and development review that enforce.

K

um I guess uh the historic the decisions of the historic preservation commission.

K

um So in looking at all that, and also um just to back up the uh enabling legislation.

K

For the historic preservation commission um has a membership component and part of that.

K

Membership component says: uh commission shall consist of at least five members.

K

um And then each member of the commission shall have a demonstrated special interest.

K

Specific knowledge or professional or academic training in and there's a whole host of different.

K

Topics, history, architecture, planning, anthropology conservation, um etc. So um in looking at having the.

K

Planning commission sit for the uh for the hpc. uh There were just some fine details. We need to.

K

Work out to make sure that we're not running afoul of the uh state enabling legislation, because the.

K

Situation, I don't want to run into, um for you guys is say we do this and you get the authority and.

K

You sit in as the historic preservation commission and you approve something and in a shocking turn,.

K

Of events, some neighbors are upset hypothetically and they appeal that um you know through our.

K

Process- and it goes all the way to uh the circuit court or what's it going to be now, mr wilder's, the.

K

Court of appeals no or because we're going to have the supreme court, and then I forgot, is it.

K

Like the court, I don't know what the intermediary, uh it might just be, the court of appeals. It is.

K

um So, which is very new um so anyway, I don't want a situation where you guys approved something and.

K

Then a judge or a panel of judges says well: where do you have the authority to do this because it.

K

Says only a historic planning commission can do this, not a planning commission, which then.

K

Would make the decision you made on that issue in null and void and put us all back at square one.

K

um So that's why uh and I've been working with linda on this, we just want to make sure that we're.

K

Airtight uh moving forward on this- and I agree with the objective I know it's so hard to get.

K

You know members, especially when you have a component in the state law that sort of has.

K

Qualifications for those um members, um so anyway, I just wanted to let you know uh that was the my.

K

Thinking with this that we're just moving forward at a sort of deliberate process to make sure we.

K

Get this right and not uh rush into anything and have problems be caused uh down the road.

A

You said the enabling legislation is an articulate of the land use article.

E

The commission, you can't enforce the historic district overlay so then that overlay almost.

E

Becomes meaningless without the commission to have the hearings to make the approvals so we're kind.

E

Of in this little quandary of of what to do, if we don't have membership for that, commission and.

E

To be able to have you know, meetings where they make a quorum to make the decisions, and you know.

E

Just like with anything it neither reigns or reports, we either have cancel, cancel meetings.

E

And we don't have anything happening or all of a sudden, you have all these applications for.

E

Exterior renovations and then they're meeting frequently, and sometimes they get contentious.

E

So we just want to make sure before we get to any of those points at, as jim said, we have our.

E

Eyes dotted and t's crossed with that. So we appreciate your patience and working with us.

E

And hopefully we we're going to be working with maryland historical trust because they're, the.

E

um Over arching body guiding this to see what what suggestions they have and what they've experienced.

A

Are other counties having similar issues that I'm not aware of? I don't know not every county.

E

Has historic districts either, so it really just depends jurisdiction to jurisdiction and how they.

E

Enforce it, even within our own county, we have just historic districts throughout the county, but only.

E

um Three or four of them actually have a historic preservation commission to enforce.

E

The district, so each historic district has to have its own historic preservation within the.

E

um The boundary so the county, we would have one, even if we have multiple districts, it would just.

E

Be one hpc for all our historic districts, but all of our municipalities have their.

E

Own regulatory authority, so they would need to establish them within their own jurisdiction.

J

There's a lot of quality qualifications, qualifiers five members, all the historical.

J

Knowledge, educational background. That's it also says interest too yeah. It's pretty.

E

Pretty burdensome, yeah special interest, specific knowledge or professional or academic training.

K

In right and it gives a whole list of different things, is there any opportunity for crossover with.

J

For example, westminster has a historic preservation. Could they serve.

J

Other boards or individual members yeah just thinking about solutions so from a municipality.

K

I mean I know at the county, we don't have members serving on more than one commission right. First.

K

Like you guys can't sit on the bca, but this is so specific and so narrow, I'm just I'm just.

K

No, I'm I'm solution that a possibility, yeah, I'm thinking through this as well.

J

Whatever could serve across a crossover on boards and that could be a solution to the problem, so it.

F

Talks about training is there someplace to learn? Well, it's again: it's not a required.

K

Training, it's just you know, because you could uh have a demonstrated special interest, which.

K

Is I think, the sort of catch-all for anyone who's ever like thought about history, um so.

K

um Like if I think the special training is like, if you have it great, but I it's.

K

Not a requirement like there are no uh historical courses. Members are required.

K

To take uh when they're you know placed on these commissions and planning is one of the required.

E

You've had not only planning knowledge but planning training, because we've brought.

E

Those trainings to our planning commission, that's why we thought it was a good fit so.

E

If we could, you know make the make this work. The other thing is, we would also bring in historic.

E

Preservation, training and look to as members leave here, perhaps to work to fill planning.

E

Commission membership with some of the specialty. If this is the direction we are able to move in.

E

Because we know that the current year of the historic preservation commission is particularly.

E

Passionate and he would love to also be part of this body as well, so we've suggested when.

E

There's openings put your application and that's what we do and the commissioners vet.

E

Those and make appointments to these boards and commissions, so that would be a great resource.

A

Well, I appreciate [music] spending time looking at the enabling legislation, because obviously it.

A

We're not compliance with that, then everything we do would be a nullity right and totally get.

A

That so, uh if we, if we're not comfortable that we're within that, you might have to take another.

A

Approach right and then the reason again this is before you is not so much because of the enabling.

E

Legislation but also our code, it's codified, so we need to change our zoning code. It's that's.

E

The section that this resides in specifically so how our code works is that it's referred.

E

To planning commission from the board of county commission so the board of county commissioners.

E

Referred this at their meeting last week now it's before you for discussion and making amendments to.

E

Our code, we can't do that until we're sure that we're meeting state requirements- okay,.

A

So you'll bring this back to us. Yes, absolutely jeff, like um one comment is like you know: if.

H

If we can't bring it into this board, is it something that county could do that.

H

You know you have people that work in both like union mills and the farm farm museum.

H

The the farm museum, oh okay, could you bring news people because they do have a background.

H

Of that kind of stuff, even though it's slightly different if they apply, but I don't know if they.

E

Can be a county employee and serve on a commission? We've we've had that inquiry before and I don't.

E

Believe they can do that like we can't. I like, I can't have my staff or someone else from public.

E

Works sit on the planning and zoning commission, so that's where that comes into play, but that.

E

That's a good thought but yeah well, you could ask them to have one of the because most of them.

H

All have their own boards great, they do. Maybe they could recommend one of their board. Members.

H

Serve in that capacity, fertile yeah, recruiting round yeah or like when you can get your five.

H

People, if you had, if you had to go down that path, recruiting yeah and linda, is it the case.

I

That the historic preservation commission that we currently have it primarily focuses only on the.

I

Overlay, it only focuses on the historic district of uniontown overlay. However, that's not to say.

E

That that couldn't be expanded, and that was one of the discussion points- is to look at having.

E

Other historic district overlays and that process would be again established by the county through.

E

A planning type of process and also getting the citizens residents that have structures, housing.

E

Commercial buildings in the next historic district, let's say to buy into it, because.

E

Owners, but it is cumbersome working through when you're in a historic district to make exterior.

E

Renovations and it would be late so so we want to make sure that we have the majority buy-in of the.

E

Area selected and that's how uniontown actually was established uniontown was established by the.

E

Residents of uniontown that wasn't the county coming, we worked very collaboratively when that.

E

Was established to select that heiress historic area, I I somewhere in the recesses of my mind. It.

I

I thought part of the function of that historic preservation. Commission was to also kind of keep.

I

Updated the list, the the inventory, the list of of historical properties in the entire county.

I

Not just union bridge is that the case yes, I mean so that is one of their. Their roles is to.

E

Update but we work with maryland historical trust because they have the preservation specialist, but.

E

Certainly, if um it would be within that purview if they wanted to recommend and something for.

E

The inclusion on the mht list that we would work with them to work with mht to get that on.

E

The state's inventory, unfortunately being on the state inventory and the register it offers really.

E

No protection, it really doesn't and I'll just say again. I I actually spent some time going through.

I

That list and some of those properties don't even exist. Now I mean they're the references.

I

You know three bay homes that were built in such and such and that they're gone they're.

I

Not there I mean, if you drive by the property, it's not that it's dilapidated, it's not there.

I

And so there's some serious updating on that inventory list. Just and again.

I

This is just me driving around because I was interested in the history of the area.

I

um And it was amazing how how there's some neat properties to see, but then you know also, you know.

I

I don't have the right to go on the property and see what's out there, so it's just kind of.

I

Windshielding, you know this has to be where it was it's not there. The barn's gone. The house is gone.

I

Anyway, I'll stop, but that the the inventory list that shows up is impressive until you go look for.

I

It and then well, the buildings aren't there, but that that still was the location and here's the.

E

History of what happened yeah and that's what this does it just preserves that all right, accounting.

E

Of where things were what they were at that time, okay yeah, unfortunately, doesn't offer protection.

E

Though nope well, the record should reflect. Mr lester has a demonstrated, especially no.

K

I was about to say that I think we've got that because we got one I stepped in. That.

A

All right so you'll bring this back to us. uh Yes, sir, so it's clearly an interest in in this and so.

A

We'll look forward to the follow-on discussion, absolutely okay, good! Well then, I guess with.

A

That we're ready to move on to item 13, which is the transportation master plan discussion.

D

B

Good morning, good morning, good morning, just a reminder: what we're doing here we've been working.

B

Through the last several months, the transportation master plan, which is a several year event, not.

B

Event, um sorry, I'm not feeling really well, um which is implementation of the master plan and.

B

We have been, we had one session with you where we talked about in its entirety. What the different.

B

Chapters would be, this is the second time we're coming to you with chapter five, which is.

B

um The sub-area and corridor analysis, which was our consultant study in 2020 on six different.

B

Corridors and sub-areas and you'll be reminded as we move through it. There's different sections for.

B

Each one so we've already reviewed with you, the eldersburg area and um finksburg, and you had some.

B

Outstanding questions we'll be bringing those back everything at once. Really, I think we're.

B

Not going to report internally um and then today we're going to do hampstead manchester and mount.

B

Airy and again it's not the towns, it's the general area. It goes beyond the town boundaries when you.

A

Say: chapter five: it's chapter five of what of our transportation master plan. Okay, thank you.

B

um So when we send you, you should be getting.

B

That looks like this. Maybe it doesn't online, but this will be the format that we're using.

B

um And then claire will be coming to you on december, 7th, with um tawny, the tawny town area.

B

And I'll be doing westminster on december 13th session and then we'll be done with this chapter.

B

And we will bring it to you, we'll compile it we'll bring back the outstanding questions to you in.

B

January then, after that, we'll move on to the plan major street section, which is very related to this.

B

Because a lot of these improvements, we're talking about, are in the plan major streets, although it.

B

Does go beyond that, so just as a reminder, that's what we're working through and we'll.

B

Probably spend a few sessions on the plan major streets because there's a lot there, so I'm just.

B

Going to turn it over to claire to do hampstead in manchester all right. Thank you good morning.

L

Morning, all right, so um yeah we're going to start with the 11 by 17 that you have in front of you.

L

um And we're going to go through hampstead manchester and then mary will uh go through mount.

L

Airy so one p- and I apologize- I forgot to number the pages, but in the future they will be numbered.

L

um Easier to follow along that way, so um section one is road network um md30.

L

Is a principal arterial for the full length of the sub area through manchester and hampstead.

L

And provides access south to reisterstown and north into pennsylvania, maryland 482 and 27.

L

Intercept intersect 30 in hampstead and manchester, and both provide access into westminster.

L

um And under recently completed projects we have a mile and a half of the hampstead streetscape.

L

Which was completed in 2020. on the next section is land use and demographics there's low overall.

L

Growth rate in the sub-area, um the majority of the population growth is expected towards the.

L

Northern part of 30 in manchester and employment growth is expected toward the southern part of 30.

L

In hampstead, where there are several large areas for potential potential, industrial development.

L

And then population growth in baltimore, county and southern pennsylvania can affect travel patterns through the sub-area through 2040.

L

The next section on the right is commuter flows. We have income incoming flows, 27 of workers come with.

L

It from within the sub area, 14 from westminster and baltimore county and then 11 from pennsylvania,.

L

um 28 percent of hampstead and manchester residents commute to baltimore county and.

L

16 percent commute to westminster, so in the am we have traffic flows that.

L

Are headed southbound on 30 and in the pm northbound on 30 towards pennsylvania.

L

We have local goals and policies um 30 through manchester and the bypass through.

L

Hampstead primarily serve through traffic from pennsylvania. The four mile hampstead.

L

Bypass mitigates congestion through downtown hampstead and has allowed for a main street.

L

Feel to return to the town and the manchester bypass may not be feasible or affordable for a.

L

Number of reasons noted is: the cost benefit, is out of proportion, there's a little right-of-way.

L

That's been reserved and the alignment poses significant environmental issues.

L

So in the sub area, we're going to go over existing traffic conditions, 130 southbound, the slowest.

L

Travel time, and I don't know how well you can see this map, I can totally zoom in a little bit.

L

Foreign, but this is an intersection of 27 and 30.

L

So southbound the slowest travel times are between lineborough road and 27 northbound.

L

Or the slowest travel times are um in the eastern section of manchester between 27, basically along.

L

The main street and despite slow travel speeds along 30 in manchester intersection delays are.

L

Low besides the northbound approach to 27, which is a level of service f,.

L

Which is right here and it's marked by the red and then lastly, approaches from westminster street.

L

Which is um down here, experiences longer delays during peak hours. That's not the actual.

L

um That's not the road 27, but it's westminster street coming into 27.

L

Okay, so we're going to go to the next page. We have 2040 traffic conditions with no improvements.

L

um Population growth in manchester and um and pennsylvania and then employment growth.

L

In hampstead will draw additional traffic to the corridor and 30 in manchester will.

L

Moderately worsen by 2040, without improvements, and that can be seen on this map to the right.

L

So then, planning approaches and recommendations. Again we went over the constraints that the.

L

Manchester bypass, that's associated with the manchester bypass and in fact it's not in the.

L

Baltimore regional 2045 long-range transportation plan where the highway needs inventory.

L

um And then, in january, when we go over chapter six um you'll see that we it's recommended for.

L

Removal from the plan major streets, section of the transportation master plan, um so the consultant.

L

Study recommends strategic local connections that prioritize alternative routes between residential.

L

Areas and local destinations- and this is to minimize the need for local traffic to use 30. and.

L

The approach is to pair enhancements along 30 with local access improvements, um like I said, to divert.

L

um Local traffic off of 30 and to keep through traffic 130., so the consultant has outlined six.

L

What we call mppi's most promising potential improvements and we're going to go through.

L

Those real quick and that's going to be one one of the other handouts that you have.

L

The first page is just.

L

Typically, an overview of where those improvements are um and then on page two we'll start with.

L

Improvement number one and that's to convert the intersection of 27 at westminster street.

L

To a roundabout, this will enhance access to residential communities, northwest of 27 and 30.

L

Number two is to provide a signalized left turn lien from 30 to westminster street and.

L

Then traffic climbing along westminster street in the northbound direction. This will provide more.

L

Reliable access to residential communities and to maiden lean which acts as a service road to local.

L

Destinations and then, if you follow my cursor, this is made in lane right here. It parallels 30.

L

Improvement number three is to widen the intersection.

L

um Of or of maryland, 27 and 30., so the 27 approach to 30. um the recommendation is to provide.

L

A separate right turn lean a shared through left lane and then a separate left turn lean.

L

Improvement number four is to add a left turn lean from 30 northbound.

L

Onto new street, allowing traffic to flow past left turning vehicles.

L

Recommendation number five is to extend southwestern avenue avenue to maryland.

L

30 to create a four-way intersection or a roundabout with maple grove road, um and we.

L

Can likely expect this upgrade in conjunction with the development of the lippy property.

L

L

And then the last recommendation number six.

L

Is to upgrade maiden and long lanes, which run parallel to 30 to facilitate local trips.

L

And that also includes upgrading some parking for the businesses right there.

L

Okay and then the last section is benefits and impacts better connection of the roadway.

L

Network paralleling 30., like I said, we'll, allow residents to make local trips without getting.

L

Into the congestion, 130 and it'll allow through motorists to move quickly through.

L

um Through manchester, so we can go back if you all have any questions when the mppis or if you.

L

Have any questions in the document in general? That's all. I have for hampstead manchester.

L

Okay, let's turn it over to mary.

L

And then the third one.

L

Will you on the next page scroll down.

B

Oh yeah, I thought that was still your mvp all right.

B

Okay: um okay, the next area to talk about is the mount airy area, and this sub area is home.

B

To carroll county's, only interstate highway, which is a 1.6 mile segment of I-70, I'm going to double.

B

Check that I think that's a little generous, I don't think we actually have 1.6 miles.

B

Right yeah, but it's very small.

B

um The maryland 27 interchange with 170 provides access from the sub area west of.

B

Frederick and east of the baltimore metropolitan area, maryland 27 itself is a principal arterial.

B

From I-70 north to the boundary of the mount airy municipality and as a minor arterial elsewhere,.

B

um And further north in the sub-area maryland 26 intersex maryland 27 in the very northern.

B

Part of the subaria and provides access east to eldersburg and west of frederick county.

B

So traffic volumes in the corridor are the highest on maryland, 27 approaching one or I-70.. There was.

B

In this sub-area, not in mount airy but farther north one recently completed project several years.

B

Ago that the um the county contributed to, which was a roadway realignment of maryland 27 ridge.

B

Road at gillis falls road and harrison harrisville road, and that was basically a safety improvement.

B

um It didn't have capacity, but it has greatly helped the um the safety there so moving on.

B

To land use and demographics, the town of mount airy is in four counties: population and housing.

B

Growth are expected in the northern parts of the mount airy dga with the majority along maryland.

B

27 employment growth is likely to concentrate in downtown mount airy and on the quarters leading.

B

To downtown also significant to employment, growth in this area is the harrison lake shear property.

B

Containing approximately 160 acres of future office park, employment, zoning bordering maryland.

B

27 and watersville road in the town's municipal area, so all those things were factored into this.

B

Analysis um regarding commuter flows, there's no notable commuter flows to baltimore county.

B

Baltimore city, frederick county howard, county and montgomery county considerably more mount.

B

Airy residents work in these counties than within carroll county and, while mount airy workers come.

B

From all over the region, the most significant portion come from frederick county at 20.

B

. um regarding local goals and policies, mount airy's, comprehensive plan, which I believe was.

B

2013 seeks to address existing and future congestion levels and create opportunities.

B

For increased connectivity main street provides an important connection through.

B

The downtown and to homes on the west side of mount airy and it carries significant.

B

Peak hour, traffic and experiences delay, especially south of ridgeville boulevard.

B

So the town's comprehensive plan which they are currently working on their update to.

B

And we've been hannah's been working with them through that, and it's not here anymore.

B

um uh They do not plan on making any changes to this chapter. At this point they haven't worked.

B

Through it all, but we're we're keeping up to date with them, they plan on continuing on the policy.

B

That they adopted in 2013 the the policies, so um they identify in that plan, several key roadway.

B

Connections intended to manage demand for north south travel on main street and ridge road, so.

B

Existing traffic conditions, moderate congestion and intersection delay occurs along maryland, 27th.

B

Through mount airy in the am and pm hours, all signalized intersections, except for one operated.

B

Level of service c or better for both peak hours, travel speeds of 35 to 44 miles an hour or per.

B

Hour in the morning and 30 to 34 miles per hour in the evening along maryland, 27 are typical, however,.

B

All of the side street approaches from ridgeville boulevard north along the corridor operate up at.

B

Level of service d or worse during at least one peak hour, so most of the recommendations coming.

B

Forth are are intended to address that congestion also occurs at the intersection of ridgefield.

B

Boulevard and main street in the am peak hour largely driven by delay in the eastbound direction,.

B

I'm going to skip over with no improvements and move unless you have any questions from what.

B

You've read and move on to planning approaches to the consultant identified two approaches that.

B

Can be taken to address the impacts of ridge, road congestion, maryland 27. on residence travel needs.

B

Improving maryland 27 intersections to make it more attractive for local trips, most directly.

B

Addresses conditions at the most congested intersections environmental and right-of-way.

B

Constraints are likely to be lower and it provides direct travel benefits for motorists from points.

B

North and also improving parallel routes to local destinations so that maryland 27 remains reserved.

B

For trips, by bypassing the center of mount airy, and this directly improves residents access to.

B

Local destinations, while reducing their need to travel on maryland 27.. um He also identified.

B

Another strategy, which is just really an idea right now, but it was included the county, could.

B

Pursue a strategy that encourages motorists from north of mount airy to access I-70 via maryland, 94.

B

Woodbine road, instead of maryland 27 because of those recently completed improvements at gillis.

B

Falls road again, this wasn't there weren't details provided there's no map of this. It's just an idea.

B

That possibly to get some of that traffic moved over um to the east, but the recommended approach.

B

Is improvement should support throughput on maryland, 27 avoid encouraging use of maryland 27.

B

For short trips and provide alternate routes for trips stemming from development on the east side,.

B

Of mount airy so that those short trips will not occupy maryland 27 capacity needed for the road.

B

To effectively perform its bypass function and again, the county should explore minor improvements.

B

Along maryland, 94, which could ease some of the traffic, so I'm going to go to the mppos.

B

And, as you can see, five were I'm sorry, six were suggested and one has already been.

B

Completed, I believe it was in conjunction with the development of the chick-fil-a.

B

Off of ridgefield drive and let me just move on to that map, so these two improvements went.

B

Together, which is to have a single lane, roundabout at south main and rising ridge- and there are these.

B

Arrows that I put in because that wouldn't work, but um this is the area we're talking.

B

About so, in conjunction with the turn restriction, that's already been completed at ridgeville drive.

B

This will reduce weaving along south main street meter traffic approaching the ridgefield boulevard.

B

Intersection and provide for easier access to main street and ridgeville boulevard from rising ridge.

B

Road and south main, so let me give you a better look. Look this. You can see here already that.

B

Was one of the mppis? It's a um it's a concrete barrier so that you can no longer come out of.

B

This shopping center make this left to get onto maryland, 27 and then 70.. So it makes you either.

B

Go over here and down and on maryland, 27 or up and around, but around about would allow residents to.

B

Go around and then come back down more easily. So since the one has already been completed, I.

B

Think there's importance in the second one, the roundabout that has not been completed.

B

um The next ones are all these would be very beneficial improvements. I know sometimes we've.

B

Brought some of these minor improvements to you and it seemed like they wouldn't really.

B

Make a difference these would, and these are on our plan, major streets. The first one is.

B

Extending center street east of 27- and that's here- there are hundreds of homes over here that.

B

If they didn't have to get onto well actually they're over here, so there's these two things.

B

If they didn't have to get on maryland, 27 to go down to the areas of mount airy, the twin ridge.

B

Shopping center- and they could just use this connection here and then likewise on the other.

B

Side on the west side connect center street across the back property. This is a property.

B

That's currently under consideration in mount airy, the development of the beck property. It's.

B

um It's going through the process now, but it's mixed juice. It's some commercials, some residential.

B

And this connection connecting center street here and then allowing back drive down there.

B

Both of these things together would pull a lot of traffic that doesn't have to be on 27 off of 27.

B

So um those would be two very beneficial improvements and again, when you get to the.

B

When we get to the plan, major street section you'll see that the full upgrade of maryland.

B

27 is included, but again the consultant was looking at smaller projects, things that could.

B

Be done through the development review process that would make an improvement so.

B

um So the last thing is the benefits and impacts of those mppis within the immediate minority area.

B

These improvements would improve local traffic, east and west, I think of maryland 27, and it is in.

B

Addition to facilitating local access completion of these improvements will help improve mobility.

B

Along your own 27, alleviating travel to points west via I-70, as well as provide better access.

B

To montgomery county via maryland 27., these improvements could significantly benefit.

B

Current commuters, but could also potentially increase development pressure. That was a.

B

Downside, especially in the southeast quadrant of the county that was pointed out by the developer,.

B

By the consultant- and that's really all we have for mount airy, um does anybody have any questions.

J

It has been very um northern boundary of it and they did not make any. They really.

B

Focused the consultants here on um it did, but if what you're getting at is the the.

B

Increasing yeah, I drive that way. Yes, that's getting yeah, it's busy.

J

Yeah, just a few, I don't think it's very many houses that one isn't that, I think, is only.

B

700 yeah yeah- maybe we just approved that within the last year and that's considered neighborhood.

J

Too, I remember from phenomena yeah. That's that whole intersection there with the old buildings.

J

Well, that's a rural village. It's a rural village yeah! It's a rural village of taylor,.

E

It's part of the neighborhood for the brazoning. That's where he's yeah yeah.

J

And that if you're familiar with the area, you can go many other ways like over to woodbine.

F

Oh yeah, to avoid that boggle right there and I think that's one of the that was that sort.

B

Of vague recommendation made by the consultant that maybe people will start to take advantage.

B

Of because there are yeah wood mountains pretty crazy and evening, though especially.

F

At woodbine in 26. yeah, when you're coming up from route 70 through woodbine, that's pretty.

J

Howard county into carroll county, I guess that's one of the one question I've had you know when.

J

There's you know, and I missed the meeting last time and but I did watch uh the meeting online.

J

And the discussion about finksburg and 140, which was uh really interesting to me, because how I.

J

Live right there, um what's the interaction with other counties, so you know the things.

J

The 140 and things were coming in from baltimore county, the howard county, coming into woodbine.

J

You know up wood vine. Is there any discussion when, when the consultant is looking at these.

J

Issues or potential solutions, are they broad-based or are they just careful? So it's? Oh I'm sorry. I.

E

Was going to say that it's a little bit of both um so they're state highways right 140 is the.

E

State highway 32 is the state highway, so the state looks set them comprehensively because they're the.

E

State roads, however, in our priority ladder, which is the annual letter that the commissioners submit.

E

As carroll county's priorities for state road for improvements, um then that's the next list.

E

That lee would say in carroll county, however, we have done projects and we've worked with.

E

um This is me, howard, county in the past, to make sure that we're reaffirming both our 32 sections.

E

um We have not has been successful with the maryland 140 stretch, but we do look at it.

E

Comprehensively and I will say going back to claire with the manchester hampstead, you know.

E

We have reached out to pennsylvania, we know what their plans are, but it's really hard to.

E

Get this another state to pay for our improvements that their development is imposing. Honestly, we.

E

Even worked with mdot to conquer some solutions for what's happening um in southern pennsylvania,.

E

Near lineborough so but yeah I mean we and we're also part of the baltimore metropolitan council. So.

E

We're all aware of what each other's issues are as part of our long-range transportation plan.

B

Here's a new long-range transportation plan for the region, that's in the works.

B

um That I don't believe this body needs to approve, but we'll be bringing it to you and.

B

I think it's being released in the spring yeah, probably it's going through the brtp. I think.

B

And that's a constrained and unconstrained, so the unconstrained is what would we like to see.

E

In the baltimore region, if we had unlimited money and then it's constrained by what the.

E

Federal government has allocated because we need to do the long-range transportation plan.

E

As part of our federal requirements for um how we allocate federal transportation funds,.

M

I mean especially too for me because the hampstead manchester area is uh is my neck of the woods so.

M

Seeing some of these proposals for 30 is is quite refreshing, so I know for me on my commute home.

M

um Thankfully, I don't have to go too far into manchester, but there's many days where.

M

Because of those lights, it's backed up past cj miller and you know you're just sitting.

M

In what we've actually found in my neighborhood is because there are ways you can weave through.

M

That a lot of people primary pennsylvanians know that way. So you know I mean to the point that we.

M

Literally, have the police speed trapping in our neighborhood at points in times, because they just.

M

You know so being able to keep that traffic. 130 is going to be very welcome. Very welcome.

A

It seems like with mount airy. You know, you've got the confluence of what four counties is that what.

B

You said it is, but it's really mostly frederick and carol. It's there's a little bit in montgomery.

B

And a little bit in howard, okay, because we talked about finksburg last time. You know, commissioner,.

A

West was talking about what they're doing in baltimore county does have an effect on what we're doing and if we're not coordinating, then sometimes, or at least knowing. But it sounds like.

A

We do know what they're doing, even if it's it might not be particularly helpful or it.

A

Might be, but at least we know, and so we know into account, that's a very challenged stretch because.

E

We ask 140 to act like 7.95 when 795 ends and it's just. I don't know it's not that I don't know what.

E

The solution is right right. Well, the fact that we're studying it is good. I mean in some places.

A

You build a committee to kill something, but here I think we're we're actually doing things that.

A

Are really constructive and focusing on areas that maybe we can have it some influence? I heard.

A

One time that studying traffic is a combination of like wave theory and water. Like stephen, you.

A

Were talking about you know if you've got a main artery, that's clogged up. Water starts to leak in.

A

Other places well, traffic does the same thing. It starts running through neighborhoods and starts.

A

Going these other places, whether you wanted to or not and sometimes like, in mount airy, if we're.

A

Coming up with ideas to have the what the traffic go in other areas. Well, then, they're going into.

A

Frederick county or maybe somewhere else, and what does that mean, and so it just sounds like.

A

To me, you are looking at it comprehensively, or at least as comprehensively as you can.

A

Because those two places that we've talked about plus finksburg.

F

Yep well, I was on the soapbox last time about all this transportation money. Hopefully we'll.

A

See some of it um we're sloshing around now than ever so coming in our direction.

A

Hopefully, hopefully, great discussion, claire mary. Thank you very much.

A

See is there any general public comment.

A

And I'd be happy to entertainment. Yes, I make a motion. We adjourn second I'll.

A

Second, all in favor all right, we are adjourned. Thank you all very much.