Carroll County, MD Carroll County Planning and Zoning Commission, 2 Feb 2022

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From YouTube: Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting February 2, 2022

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https://www.carrollcountymd.gov/government/boards-commissions/planning-zoning-commission/

A

We'll call the uh planning and zoning commission meeting to order for uh february 2nd 2022, which.

A

In shorthand is 2-2-22 today, just notice that um and uh welcome everyone. We will.

A

Begin, I guess it says, establishment of a quorum, but we don't have a quorum.

A

Right now um maybe we come back to that when matt, when mr.

B

Okay, yes, we can do that, it's just without a quorum. You just can't take any votes on anything.

C

Okay, well, then, I guess uh laura you can take attendance.

A

Yeah, I will just change my sentence that I usually say at the end. Mr wathers, I am here.

C

D

I'm here, mr huff.

C

Commissioner went.

E

Here, secretary eisenberg.

C

Here, mr chair, please let the record reflect that three members are present very good. Thank you very.

A

Much, and should we also note for the record, we do not have a quorum at this time. That's right.

A

um Let's uh next is pledge of allegiance, we'll stand for the pledge of allegiance.

A

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and to.

A

The republic for which it stands, one nation, under god, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

A

All right next is uh item four review and approval of the agenda. Given the conversation we had just.

A

A moment ago, it seems like that uh the approval of the agenda will have to be noting that we're going.

A

To change the order of the agenda item, six will be taken out of order until such time as we have.

A

A quorum um but uh mr lester, I'm looking at you to see if you'd be comfortable, making a motion to.

A

Approve the agenda with that understanding, I believe that we approve the admitted agenda.

A

All right, commissioner west, do you second, that.

F

Absolutely absolutely linda: are we okay with that.

B

Yeah jim, are we even allowed to take um motions for approving agendas and things.

B

Like that, without a quorum, I don't think we can take any of those correct, you're all mute jim.

C

Three years in and I'm still.

C

um Right, you can't transact any business or take any official action.

C

So we can't adopt the agenda um until there's a quorum. However,.

B

It looks like mr hawk just arrived: okay problem solved problem solved.

B

Matt, you got here just in time, so matt I've moved that we approved the agenda but moving.

G

Item six but we're now we don't even have to move that item. Do we? I guess we don't right. So, let's.

G

Accept the agenda as proposed originally, I think uh we have a motion, but I think jim you're saying.

A

Procedurally, we need to establish a quorum first right. I think that would just be best.

A

So do we need to take another roll call um attendance or do we? Can the record reflect that? Mr.

A

Hoff has joined us and uh the record can reflect that. Mr hoff is joined, okay and then laura. Can you.

A

Given the fact that uh mr hoff has joined us, are you able to tell us if that establishes a quorum.

C

Yes, mr chair, please let the record reflect that four members are present.

C

And we do have a quorum all right. Thank you.

A

Welcome matt, um so we have a motion on the floor to approve the agenda and uh mr huff: do you.

A

Are you in the mood to second that motion? Yes I'll? Second, that, okay, very good all in favor.

A

Looks like we have unanimous consent to approve the agenda. We are making progress.

A

um With that we'll go to item five, madam secretary, the administrative report: yes.

B

uh Good evening um and thank you all for being here, I know we are really supportive.

A

I'm getting some feedback, I don't know if we can fix that. Thank you nope. We got it um so I.

B

I don't want to take anything from commissioner rantz, but my understanding is. We did have some.

B

People that were interested in participating and planning commission, so hopefully this will.

B

Not be an issue for much longer that we are short members and can make a quorum.

B

Unfortunately, whoever is brought on board will not be here in time for us to be able to.

B

Have a february 15th meeting so that meeting has been cancelled for this month, so there will be no.

B

Regular business meeting: that's why item number six? um The special report for karma acres is on.

B

The agenda because this item could not wait to have action taken on it um at the march.

B

Meeting, so that's why, typically, we do not do actionable items such as this on a work session.

B

But because of the issues with the having attendance in a forum, we had to move it up.

B

um And that's all I have for you this evening. Sherwoods did you want to add anything or.

F

Sure, thanks, linda, uh maybe just to put pete jeff and matt's mind at ease here a little bit.

F

uh Commissioner weaver and I uh interviewed uh three individuals yesterday.

F

As you know, we interview uh for this board and also for the board of zoning appeals.

F

Again, because uh knowing the importance of of both of these of these groups, I'm happy to report.

F

That, if our other three colleagues accept what commissioner weaver and I found yesterday, that we.

F

Have two very strong individuals that have really good backgrounds that I think will um will be.

F

A great addition uh to this group- and um I gotta leave it at that because we have to get official.

F

Approval uh you know tomorrow, but um just to let you guys know, I think, at the march meeting.

F

uh Albeit the fact that there'll be a little green going in, of course, but I do believe that.

F

We're gonna have two very strong individuals that um that will will absolutely add to.

F

uh To what is already a good group here uh other than that we're looking uh again tomorrow with a.

F

uh Since we're not gonna meet uh next week, let me just update you uh we're looking tomorrow uh for.

F

Another health department update we'll see where we are when it comes to virtual meetings and.

F

You know, I think I think you'll find that when we do come back in march, we'll be back in person.

F

uh Especially for the tuesday meetings, I'm not sure what we'll do wednesday moving on.

F

But we'll we'll see where that goes uh getting ready to start the budget, as you guys well know,.

F

uh That'll be starting soon and finally, for me, it's been a pretty sad week for those of us.

F

In public safety and actually all of us, we had a line of duty death funeral on sunday.

F

For uh robert bobby jones department, who passed away from covet related.

F

Infection, sadly, and then today, as us, probably most of you saw, we buried three folks in baltimore city.

F

In a collapse there, so it's been a rough week, uh but um you know we're we're moving positive.

F

In a positive way here- and uh I just wanted to chime in there just to let you guys know.

F

That uh again, I think we'll be you'll, be I think, you'll be pleasantly surprised at who will be.

F

Sitting beside you folks, uh when we, when we uh come back in march.

F

uh That's it stay safe! Try to stay warm too, although I think it's supposed to be.

F

50 tomorrow, so I think maybe you'll be okay for a day or two so anyway. Thank you. Thank you, linda.

B

Yeah. Thank you, commissioner, for that update and again sorry for the community's loss with.

B

um Those members of the baltimore city, fire department and ems and our own local community, as.

B

Well, the reese fire department really, as you said, very very tragic indeed, um that's all I have for.

B

My special for my administrative report, um and with that I know we have some people here from.

B

Development review, as well as the participants of the special report for karma acres. So that's.

B

All I have thank you so much all right, very good. Thank you, linda. Thank you, commissioner.

A

Why don't we move on then officially to item six special report: um cormay acres, plat b.

A

I don't see a case number. um You are correct. There is no file number I'll, explain that.

H

No problem, okay, well, very good! Well, let's call it and uh laura. Why don't you uh take the reins.

A

And go ahead and get us moving on. Thank you, and if the control room can give me the ability to screen.

H

Share I'll give that a go, and I am so hopeful that we go back in person and I never have to like get.

H

This screen sharing to work ever again there. I think I did it. Okay, thank goodness, fantastic.

H

So first uh laura matthias bureau of development review. I want to sincerely thank you for.

H

Sliding this into your evening meeting, which is atypical but absolutely appreciated and you'll.

H

Come to understand why, as I go through the report and in fact it's probably very appropriate for an.

H

Evening meeting as I was reading through my report, I realized it really reads a little bit more like.

H

A story than a report because it kind of is so um if I could. First of all it's a special report.

H

I did simply call it karma acres plant b, because if I had put a file number to it, if I don't.

H

Even know what it's, this plot is back from 1975 that was recorded, and the special request is.

H

Related directly to that, um so it would have been an ancient file number if there was one at all so.

H

And I would like to just give a couple minutes to the the people who have joined us regarding.

H

This project tonight so mr hall and mr sill and mr heinle, if you'd like to introduce yourself um and.

H

Just as the you know as to what your involvement is in the project owner, engineer, etc, thank you.

D

Thanks, my name is wayne hall, I'm the owner of 217 obrecht and also have under contract.

D

uh For the parcel that we are discussing tonight.

D

The reason we're here tonight is that uh there's a piece of land toward the back portion of.

D

The thirteen half acres off of obrecht that, where my wife and I want to build a home there and.

D

Having access off of caramel will make the process a lot easier for us than trying to come off of.

D

Obrecht, so I have engaged two engineering firms to help me with this and now we'll let them introduce.

D

Themselves evening, everyone- this is paul with cell engineering group and I'm the engineer for mr hall.

H

Thank you is mr heinle still on.

E

Thank you, yeah keith heindel, with hanover land services.

H

Thank you again for many different reasons, we'll all be thrilled to be back in person.

H

Fingers crossed okay, so carmakers uh is a subdivision here. We're on obrecht road.

H

And this is carmay road, so let me introduce you to oh I'm going to go to a full screen here.

H

And a little bit bigger, so you can see okay, so the subject parcel is here at karma road.

H

That is exactly what we were talking about today. This parcel is all of 1.9 acres and it was created.

H

Back in 1975 with a subdivision called carme acres, which is all of this, of course, approved by the.

H

Planning commission and recorded on a record plot, which I will show you in a minute um you'll, see.

H

This is, this is trudy road, it lies directly trudy drive. Excuse me lies directly across from trudy.

H

Die drive and it's flanked by residences, 7024, karmay, road and 7100 karma road. So most of karma.

H

Acres along here, these are single-family residences with private drives to karma.

H

All right so, as mr hall said, the subject parcel, he does have that under contract right now,.

H

um He is also the owner of this larger parcel. Oh it's missing a few.

H

This larger pasta, which is two one, seven obrecht route and that parcel is 13.42 acres.

H

Okay, so the property you can see is crossed by a stream and actually the tributaries kind.

H

Of branch out in the structure and destruction, it is built right now with a single family, residence.

H

Which is closest to obact road, with a single use driveway out to obrecht road.

H

So let me move forward to that flat that I was speaking of there. We go.

H

All right so way back in 1975 they reserved this parcel, which comes back to 217 obrecht road.

H

As part of the subdivision, they did a 50 foot wide parcel.

H

And it goes it flares out to 110 at the road and they have that labeled specifically annotated.

H

Reserved future road, so this is not unusual for sure. We've seen this before that the intent of.

H

That and there's a general note related was to give this property that adjoins it. The opportunity.

H

To make that an access point, a road back to that parcel for the future development of that parcel.

H

So this is what that looks like.

H

A couple pictures right looking at that parcel going straight back.

H

So currently, as I said, mr hall has purchased 217 obrecht and if we go back, I'm going to go.

H

Back right here um and his intent, his hope is to build a residence at the rear of this property.

H

With a private drive to karmay road, so that being the case and as I said, you've seen this before, I.

H

Believe most recently, sun valley might ring a bell where there was a parcel that was reserved for a.

H

Future road and they came in and they wanted to modify that designation well, in this case.

H

We are looking at approximately two acres at the rear of this parcel.

H

It's actually the tributaries of this stream divided north south, making the vehicular access.

H

From north to south pretty challenging and the owner's desire is to simply either build.

H

A detached accessory dwelling, a residence or to possibly subdivide that out and build a residence.

H

But to put a second residence at the southern portion of the property, with access to carme.

H

So the request before you is the to approve the removal of that note on the 1975 plat, so that.

H

The parcel could be used for a private drive to the residents at the southern portion here.

H

The owner is requesting that determination today and following the determination they will proceed.

H

Along the proper plan review to go ahead and actually remove that note, so they would process.

H

A plan through development review to remove the note and move forward with their plans.

H

So again, you can see why it was a little bit timely. He has the parcel.

H

Under contract and is hoping to continue moving forward with his vision for the property.

H

Do you have any questions back for myself or mr hall or the engineers who are here tonight.

A

I don't have any questions um I would suggest. Maybe um we see if um hall or.

A

Mr sill or mr hindle would like to add anything to your presentation.

D

uh Yeah, this is wayne hall. The only thing I would like to add is that.

D

Laura had mentioned that there is a dwelling up toward obrecht and that dwelling uh it actually.

D

Will be renovated by my son who'll be living in that so um why this piece of property is of.

D

Great interest to us is that will put us uh in close proximity to my son, my wife and I.

D

Both retired, so we hope to you, know, be here the rest of our lives and be close to our son, who.

D

Were lucky enough to live to rip a wage he'll be there to take care of us.

A

Well, that certainly seems prudent. It makes a lot of sense to me uh any anyone else have.

A

Any uh comments, mr sill, mr heindel uh yeah paul, so I'd just like to add one thing and I think.

I

I need to make a correction, uh miss matthias, I think you said at the beginning. It's 1.9 acres.

I

But if I did, I misspoke it's 0.19. Yes, yes thank you um and I just like to add that along the east.

I

Side of that stream in this back half of the property there's also slope and buffer issues.

I

That, like you, said, make it very challenging to get a driveway from obrecht back there. Thank you.

G

Very good, my only question would jeff would be to mr hall and anyone else who would care to.

G

Answer this, so it's our understanding that this drive that you're going to install.

G

Is going to service one home? Is that correct? That is correct, yeah.

A

All right, thank you, mr lester. um Mr huff, do you have any questions.

E

No, I don't have anything. I will add one thing to the story, which is just interesting: um that the.

H

Parcel itself was never deeded to the county, uh so so, mr hall, actually, when he first contacted me, I.

H

Said the county does not does not have ownership of that parcel, so you have to actually track down.

H

The current owner of the parcel, because it never conveyed um which does happen also not on not out.

H

Of the ordinary at all, but he the next time he contacted me, he said I did it. I'm I'm looking to.

H

Purchase it and I was like wow, okay. Well, here's what we do next! So it's a pretty! um I don't.

H

Know how lengthy it is, mr hall could speak to how long the story is, but he's been working hard well.

A

Very good: are there any members of the public that have signed up to have any comment on this tonight.

B

We did have one member of the public, but they retracted um their name from being.

B

Called and I don't believe they're on the line at this time- the people that we have.

B

Here that are not part of our typical staff are members that are supporting are part of.

B

The karma acres is that correct lara. There's, I don't think, there's anyone else here.

H

Correct he, the gentleman contacted me. He said once I saw what the intent was. I it was one of.

H

The adjoining parcels and he retracted, he said I don't wish to speak any longer. I'm I'm good.

A

All right very good! Well then, I guess it's back to us, mr lester, mr hoff,.

A

Chair would be happy to entertain a motion to approve removal of the note to the parcel can.

A

Be used for a private driveway to the residence would either do you care to make such a motion.

E

I'll make that motion that we retracted very good. Is there a second I'll? Second, it all right.

A

So there's a motion on the table and a second to approve the removal of the note referenced in the.

A

Staff report, so the parcel may be used for private driveway.

A

To the residents is there any further discussion? Okay, all in favor.

A

There's uh and no one is left to vote. No. um So after 47 years it looks like this note's gonna be.

A

Removed and uh mr hall, we wish you the best of luck. Thank you very much appreciate it. Thank you.

A

Thank you all. Thank you laura. Thank you very good. We'll move on to item seven, which is the.

A

Transportation master plan survey two update, and I think uh it indicates that ms stewart is.

A

Presenting this to us yes, good evening, everyone control room can I have um screen share. Please.

C

J

Okay, you guys can see that the presentation.

J

Yes, we can okay, great yep, all good, so.

J

um Good evening, I'm going to share um results from our survey. 2 of the transportation master plan.

J

um The survey was open for about six weeks in october mid-october through december.

J

um And I believe mary lane was in front of you in november and just gave you a briefing when.

J

The purpose of the survey and what the questions were.

J

So we used several methods to promote this survey. We put it on the county website.

J

In several different places, we set up a kiosk in the county office building lobby. We promoted it.

J

Through facebook posts, scum delivery, a press release and we also reached.

J

Out to our municipalities, um so they could share it with their citizens.

J

Okay, so the purpose of the survey was to identify.

J

Travel patterns, congestion issues and community interest in new transportation opportunities.

J

It was 12 questions with three optional mapping questions. We received 215 responses.

J

And our results show that 90 92 percent of the respondents live in carroll county.

J

Okay, so this chart map combination, shows locations and um and times that survey respondents begin.

J

Their commute in carroll county so, for those beginning, their commute outside of the county.

J

We asked for location in time that they entered carroll. So the first question.

J

Was what town or rural village in carroll county do you start your drive from.

J

And for this question, we provided a map with locations and we asked respondents to select.

J

From a drop down menu, the closest rural village or municipality or growth area, and then the second.

J

Question um what time do you start your drive in carroll county and then again.

J

We asked them to select from a drop down menu, um so our results show that 75 of respondents.

B

The presentation's just on the first line, still oh, oh, my gosh, okay,.

B

So because you don't have it in um the mode for slideshow, you have it in the regular really.

J

Okay, let me see okay. Well, if I just go like that, yep, that's fine!.

J

That's so weird: okay,.

B

Oh f5, okay, I don't know what is happening, but you can see.

J

um The slide that's labeled, location and time survey. Respondents begin commuting. Yes, okay,.

J

Let me let me do something real, quick.

E

J

All right right, so our results are showing that 75 percent of respondents begin commuting in.

J

Carroll between 6 and 9 a.m, as expected, um with the most between seven and eight a.m.

J

uh As for location, almost half of the respondents begin their commute in either the freedom area.

J

Hampstead or westminster on this map, um that's represented uh in black um next, is sykesville and.

J

Finksburg with around 11 each um and those are the yellow areas and then mount airy by itself.

J

Made up about seven percent um and tony town and new windsor together were about nine percent, so.

J

Those are once again the locations and times survey. Respondents are beginning their commute.

J

And I will move on.

J

Okay, so here is a similar, similar map.

J

Combo um and this is showing locations in time, survey, respondents and their commute and carol.

J

um So for those ending their commute outside of carroll, we asked for location times that they're.

J

Leaving the county um so the first question: what town a rural village in carroll county? Do you end.

J

Your drive in um and we provided the same map with drop-down responses of either rural villages or.

J

Municipalities um and then the second question: what time do you arrive at your destination or.

J

End your driving carol. So again, they chose from a drop down menu of times, um and these results show.

J

That 63 of responses or respondents and their commuting carol or in um I'm sorry westminster.

J

And that's the um the black, the black outline um and then as for let's see oh sorry, um then next is.

J

40 of responses um and their commute in either sykesville finksburg or freedom. So those are the.

J

Areas outlined in blue and again as expected, they're ending most of respond. Respondents.

J

Are ending their commute between six and nine am um with the majority at between seven and eight.

J

And then every all the other colors, so it's the um the brown and gray on this map they represent.

J

Less than 15 percent of responses- and those are tony town.

J

Union bridge new windsor and then a couple rural villages in there.

J

So the next question we asked has kava changed your commuting patterns and 25.

J

Said yes um and responses show the majority at 82 percent begin.

J

Teleworking, um part-time or full-time seven percent lost or changed a job or retired.

J

And then four percent experienced a shift in their work schedule.

J

Okay, so here we, um I provided a couple definitions in the survey on.

J

Platooning and personal delivery devices- I don't think too many people are familiar with those, so.

J

Platooning is a practice that utilizes vehicle to vehicle communication technology first by radar.

J

Gps and wi-fi to allow two or more vehicles to be electronically synced with one another. So the.

J

First, vehicle wireless wirelessly um communicates information um to the second vehicle or.

J

um However, many vehicles are in that line in maryland. um It's a two vehicle allowance right now.

J

And then the other definition is personal delivery device and that's a powered device.

J

That is operated primarily on shoulders. Sidewalks and crosswalks is intended for.

J

The transportation of property owned public rights of way weighs no more than 550 pounds.

J

Excluding cargo and is capable of navigating with or without the active control or monitoring of an.

J

Individual and you'll see those in more urban areas, delivering packages and food.

J

Okay, so the next question is: how interested you are you in sharing the roads with new.

J

Transportation opportunities and we asked respondents to read each.

J

From very interested to not interested- and there was an option for not sure, don't know.

J

So the categories were e-bikes e-scooters, electric cars autonomous or connected cars.

J

Autonomous or connected buses on connected truck for tuning and personal delivery devices.

J

So our results show that there is some level of interest in sharing the roads with.

J

Electric cars, which came in at 73 percent for respondents who choose very interested.

J

And that's the the second outer ring um and that's a large increase from the next highest, which was.

J

Personal delivery devices at 45 and that's the inner ring.

J

And then for um connected truck platooning, we had about one-fifth of the responses.

J

That uh replied, not sure, don't know, even with the uh the definition that was provided.

J

And then the next question was pretty similar, um except we did not ask about connected truck.

J

Platooning, um so this was: how likely are you to utilize new transportation opportunities.

J

With the same amount of responses very likely to not likely with a not sure.

J

Don't know option um and these results show that the majority is not likely to utilize.

J

Transportation opportunities, the highest percent.

J

That had any interest is the electric cars again with this response of 32 percent um and.

J

None of the other categories showed much interest for this one. So.

J

I have three more um three more uh results to questions I want to share. Let me exit out of here.

J

I need to open up another screen.

J

Okay, can you guys see this one, okay,.

J

So these are the last three questions and they had a mapping component to them.

J

um And these were three yes or no questions um and with the mapping component that was based on.

J

An interactive county-wide map and it allowed respondents to choose up to five locations.

J

And um those locations were just points that they could map.

J

um And we did provide um directions on how to map for those who were not familiar with this.

J

So the first question: do you typically experience congestion or intersections with.

J

Long wait times on your way to your destination, so we had 70 out of 215 responses. That said, yes,.

J

And 91 locations that were mapped, I'm not going to move around the map too much. But there's.

J

um We saw a cluster 191 or I'm sorry on 140 in the thanks for growth area.

J

With about 12 of those or half of those at the 91 and 140 intersection,.

J

There is quite a few along 32 in the freedom area.

J

And about half as many along 26.

J

With a small cluster at the intersection of 32 and 26, and then we we had some responses along 27.

J

um Going through mount airy and then just some scattered responses um in westminster along 140.

J

All right so for the next question, this was: do you typically experience congestion or intersections.

J

With long wait times on your way home, we had 92 out of 215 that responded yes and 110.

J

Locations mapped again we're kind of seeing the a similar pattern. As the last question.

J

There's the cluster along 140 in the growth area in of finksburg um with even more this time, mapped.

J

At the um 140 and 91 intersection, um the freedom area very similar, we saw the majority along 32.

J

um At the intersection of 26 and then more towards the southern portion of 32 near sykesville,.

J

We saw quite a few along 27 in mount airy again.

J

There was a small cluster along 140 in tawny town and at the intersection of 140 and 194.

J

And then along 140 in westminster,.

J

um And then along 27, um northbound of westminster as well. We saw quite a few.

J

And then the last question.

J

Do you think, there's location on your route or on your way to your destination or home.

J

That needs traffic calming so once again, um pretty similar to the previous uh responses.

J

One, the things for area. uh Definitely um there were four responses at the 27, the intersection.

J

Of maryland, 27 and luca ball mill road, so we're gonna, we're gonna, take a look into that.

J

J

And then a small cluster along 140 in westminster again.

J

And then we saw some various responses in mount airy along 27.

J

And mean street, so we're going to take a take, a look into that. um So that is pretty much it.

J

um In all these results for the most part and confirmed what we already know and we're gonna.

J

um Do our best to incorporate um everything into the into the.

J

County-Wide transportation master plan: do you guys have any questions.

A

um I would say claire that I've been in almost every single one of those traffic.

A

uh uh Jams across the county, except maybe tawnytown, um but I can personally attest.

A

The agreeing with your data, I was a little curious about the traffic calming answer.

A

There, because some of the areas that are marked it would seem like traffic, is very calm, because it's.

A

Stopped a lot of days or very, very slow um like on 140 at 91.. um Do you have any thoughts around.

A

Maybe they misunderstood what com traffic calming was or is maybe I'm misunderstanding: what traffic.

A

Calming I usually take that to mean something to slow traffic down where there may be pedestrians.

A

Or other reasons, whether you use what they're called chicanes or speed bumps or things like.

A

That is that what the question was getting at with traffic calming- if you know yes and honestly, we I.

J

Was hoping to get a little bit more feedback, there was an opportunity anytime, you placed.

J

A point on the map: there was an opportunity to leave a comment as to why that point was.

J

There um we didn't receive much feedback, so we received a lot of points without any comments.

H

A

Any other questions or comments for uh for claire.

G

Claire I'll I'll say again, I I appreciate the effort to put forth a survey like this. You know.

G

It's always frustrating to me when you know you, you survey, you know a group of participants or.

G

Employees and you, you got 4 000 employees and you get. You know. 20 responses, um yeah.

G

My my only question about this is, and it's not that that we're not pushing this aggressively.

G

I mean you do everything you can to get people to fill out a survey. I just don't know at what point.

G

The data is statistically relevant and that we can call it relevant. I mean I think this.

G

Confirms what I think jeff, I agree with you when you say that I mean this kind of confirms what.

G

I think are the problems, but again I just don't know you know when you get 200 responses out of.

G

What we we have 200 almost 200 000 people living in the county. I don't know if it's statistically.

G

Relevant and- and so I just don't know, can you can, can anybody linda claire can y'all shed light on.

G

How we're supposed to interpret this? It's not, I think, you're right, it's not statistical data. I.

B

Mean it's anecdotal purely and it's really to support um the studies that we've had done by.

B

Professional consulting group and to just engage people to see where do they have issues and again.

B

I think just reaffirms all the things that we've already discussed and now but no I mean.

B

It's not a statistical survey. We know that going in again, it's just for anecdotal and qualitative.

B

um Purposes well, thank you for clarifying that. I appreciate it. Thank you.

A

I did at one curious, um I was curious about a statistic I think it said. 75.

A

Of the respondents said that covet did not change their commuting patterns.

A

Anyway, I was surprised, were you I don't know. Were you surprised by that claire? I mean that.

A

That 75 percent of the people now again to peter's point.

A

You know we're getting 200 out of 200 000 people, but uh you know I was just surprised that the vast.

A

Majority of the people that responded said covet had no effect, none on their commuting.

A

Patterns yeah. I was a bit surprised by that. um I was not surprised by the the more than.

J

80, that said, who were affected responded because of teleworking is basically it so.

E

Yeah, okay: matt! Do you have any questions comments.

A

Okay, very good. Well, I think.

A

I joined pete's uh thanking you for this. We appreciate you reaching out to the community any.

C

Data, I think we can get, is helpful. uh So uh thank you for your for your hard work on this. Thank.

J

You all right, we'll move on to item eight 20 23 to 28 cip, recommended budget discussion.

A

And consistency letter? Yes, so um if you recall at our last meeting uh ted celeski, the director of.

B

Budget management came to your meeting to talk to you about this year's recommended capital programs.

B

um We have two parts to this: we have the requested budget and then what's actually recommended.

B

The requested is unconstrained, meaning that we don't have ceilings. What would you want if.

B

We had unlimited money, the recommended puts those requests into the budget confines and.

B

That's what gets forwarded to the board of county commissioners laura did in the meantime, mail. The.

B

Recommended in the yellow book, so you should have had that and had an opportunity to look at this.

B

um So what I just want to go over with you tonight is the letter that I prepared.

B

And a brief presentation of the projects that planning working with also department of public.

B

Works and development review put in the requested budget that did not get recommended, um and I.

B

Think one project in particular that we would be advocating for as it gets to the commissioners.

B

They do have some ability to um look at. They have all the ability to look at the budget.

B

And make changes to what is before them in the recommended, but this is one project that I really.

B

Would like to bring to their attention that's in the letter, um so with that um the projects that.

B

Have been put forward, and actually we made some really great strides as far as getting important.

B

Planning projects into the recommended budget and then getting adopted um in that capital budget.

B

In the fy 23 budget moving forward um and that those projects were the georgetown boulevard.

B

Extension, which is off of london town, so that was a great project to put in and then it's going.

B

To be connecting a potential new development on the baby property so, and also fixing that.

B

Sharp hairpin turn on london town. That's a huge safety issue and something that um we feel is very.

B

Important for also not only the new development, but the current development and the redevelopment.

B

Of that intersection of georgetown and londontown, the next is the monroe avenue extension and bridge.

B

You all have reviewed um the hobie wolf property several times in various forms.

B

uh Last time you saw it was to approve the cluster subdivision plan that they came forward with the.

B

County has put in their budget to put the final connection, which would be from oak creek and then.

B

He'll be looked at bridge that goes over, that creek stream valley in that particular area. So.

B

We have connectivity all the way through monroe, coming down to 26. and that'll just add again.

B

The more connections we have, the more uh strain it takes off of our major roads of 32 and 26.

B

And then, finally, the last project that is put into the cip was ride, narrow way.

B

This is critical for the nels acres subdivision, that's being built off of fallon.

B

And maryland 26 toward the baltimore county line and the bridges. So that was a really important.

B

Road, this uh ryden our wave will connect uh to believe sunset or panoramic. I'm sorry, I apologize.

B

um And we'll connect that and make an easier conveyance um into the nails, acres, fallon road.

B

Area and give another point of access to entry. That's a little bit safer for that community.

B

And just give some other upgrades to the road network down there, the projects I want to bring.

B

To your attention, if I can share my screen, that would be really helpful control room.

B

B

And um bear with me we're trying a little bit of new technology with our screen with our different.

B

Projects and we're using what's called storymap, which is done by um esri and our computer mapping.

B

Company um we've just gotten this technology, we're getting our computers upgraded to handle.

B

um The new format that this is in so I wanted to have our gis person um do this, because I'd like to.

B

See us do more of this type of interactive mapping instead of publishing typical planning reports and.

B

Documents the industry is now moving more toward this interactive mapping. uh More graphical display.

B

Of these types of materials, so again this is the carroll county planning and zoning commission's.

B

Report on the very cip projects that we're not into the recommended budget and so hold on.

B

Here there we go um so the first um is just to make you aware that we've already talked about.

B

The letter and to show you the projects that were not included, that we requested the critical roads.

B

Projects that we put in that were not included is um the karen dr johnsville road sidewalk projects.

B

The freedom avenue sidewalk and the arrington rank of road connection and realignment.

B

So three projects that were in the requested that did not make it to the recommended budget.

B

So the first is the um arrington ring cliff road connection um and if you recall, you've.

B

Seen some of the preliminary um requests for freedom's grant? They came before you.

B

um For their, um I believe, their allowance for or their their density requirement um for the.

B

Age, restricted community, which will now be known as retirement village, um and then they went to bc.

B

And got approval for that retirement, village and then you'll come back and see their.

B

Final site plan approval. So if you can see here, aaron turner, I'm going to zoom in to the map.

B

You can see that currently errington wrote is like a stair step in our plan, major streets. This.

B

Has been envisioned since the 70s that this road alignment be straightened out. So with this huge.

B

Community, that's moving forward of 237 units, the developer will be responsible and if you.

B

Can follow my cursor for the portion, the lower portion here that goes through their property.

B

And I believe they've shown it on their various um plans that they've brought forward the part.

B

That we need to connect- and that was proposed in the cip- is this section here that goes from the.

B

Freedoms grant and then goes to arrington, and then this is slacks road to the west, falling straight.

B

Across and the proposal that we put forward in the cip is to upgrade this intersection, make better.

B

Connectivity and then straighten out the alignment, then of arington in this section to start.

B

To the west is also- and I'm I'm not a hundred percent sure the exact location. um So let me.

B

Zoom out a little bit, um I believe it's somewhere in this vicinity. If you can follow my cursor right.

B

Here that is the proposed site or is the site of the newly planned state-owned veterans facility.

B

That will be a 128-bed veterans home facility on 140 acres. So again, there's going to be a lot.

B

More traffic coming through here having the safety of this roadway, is critically.

B

Important, so that's why we wanted to make sure that this got in the recommended, cip and.

B

Typically, we are instructed to go to the outer years meeting. You start the last year of the.

B

Plan the six year plan and move your way uh and have it kind of move across. But because freedom's.

B

Grant's already in the works- and we know the state is committed to the veterans facility.

B

um Suggested that he put in fy 25 for design and land acquisition and fy26 for construction.

B

um The next are the freedom sidewalk projects that we have, so that was the only rhodes project like.

B

I said we made some great strides on developing a lot of these roads to keep pace of development in.

B

The greater freedom area, the other two- are the um sidewalk projects and you can see freedom avenue.

B

Which is a big ask, goes from 32 all the way to, I believe, that's johnsville. The reason that came.

B

Forward is for many many years now. Public works has been getting a ton of phone calls.

B

From people going down the road too quickly to putting actual sidewalks in for students.

B

Of piney ridge elementary school there's a lot of parental concern with kids walking, there's no real.

B

Shoulder um and there is no sidewalk whatsoever in that area so again having connectivity and.

B

So we put in for the whole entire alignment knowing that, maybe it would have to be paired down.

B

But thought it was important to have the entire alignment of freedom avenue on this cip.

B

And then you can see it in a little more detail here now. This is a really expensive.

B

Project because of land acquisition, uh the county doesn't have right-of-way to put in sidewalks. We.

B

Would have to do acquire the land along the alignment to put the sidewalk in also it's.

B

Inexpensive projects are some constraints with utilities and I'll just zoom into the map. Here.

B

Especially around the school there's, utility, poles and there's underground cables.

B

For internet and cable service along this path that make it um extremely cost prohibitive in.

B

Some ways, however, one of the things that we would do as we did with our other two sidewalk projects.

B

Is look for grant opportunities and our recommendation is that.

B

The final 20 of funding for this project would happen once we get we put in for the grant and.

B

Get approved for the grant, but we would have to have a dedicated portion of it in our budget.

B

And then budget for the 20, that would be the county's portion.

B

um In the last project and on it's actually just this part at karen drive would be to.

B

Build the sidewalk along johnsville to the connection here at eldersburg elementary school.

B

And that was about a 365 thousand dollar estimate again using. We would look to sacred.

B

To school funding we are currently getting ready to break ground on the section at the north end.

B

That um goes to liberty, high school from eldersburg elementary, so this part is in the cip.

B

We secured grant funding and that is moving forward and I believe brown's going to break.

B

On that this spring, so this will be the portion that we're proposing to put into the cip for.

B

This upcoming year, um so that those are the projects I wanted to share with you.

B

And just you know um get a little bit of your input if you thought.

B

That was agreeable what your thoughts on the letter, if there's anything that.

B

We've excluded or that you would like to see um taken out or added to this letter.

A

No, I thought the letter was good and I do commend you on making such progress and having important.

A

Projects included in the cip, um you know the sidewalk issue and how expensive they are when.

A

We have to do them after the fact, just I think, reinforces the importance of having them included.

A

In the projects as they come before us, even if they are somewhat disconnected in time, the idea is.

A

They become connected and we don't have something that cost three million dollars for sidewalks.

A

After all, these developments are in so I think we're doing many things correctly and insisting on.

A

These things to be a part of it, um but still some work to do, and I think I agree with uh including.

A

Or asking that these be included- and I know the letter that you gave us addresses these things so.

A

I was very comfortable with the letter. All right, very good yeah I mean all we can do is ask right.

B

And give the commissioners the best information possible, so they can make these decisions moving.

B

Forward, I know it's tough with the budget and I would say I know everyone thinks planning is very.

B

Sidewalk heavy, but we don't look to put sidewalks in our large lot subdivisions we're really looking.

B

For those infill opportunities and our more dense communities and when new neighborhoods.

B

Are built and those dense communities? That's what we're looking for the sidewalks and for.

B

The connections so that when we have walkable intercut, interconnected communities, especially.

B

In the freedom um area yeah yeah about, I lit I'm just gonna, I'm gonna echo and I don't need to just.

G

Parrot what jeff said? First of all, I think the letter's excellent I I started to make an edit.

G

And then, when I got further down, I realized you know this is exactly so anyway. I have no chance.

G

No additions to the letter, and the other thing I'll just simply say again, is in my former life.

G

I was a runner and every single road that you're proposing I've run in the middle of the middle.

G

On the shoulder of those roads, every single one of them, um partly because um you know johnsville.

G

If you're trying to get in decent a decent mileage, johnsville is basically the flattest.

G

Road I could find in the area it's kind of a spine, believe it or not, and you know when you.

G

Leave liberty high school: if you park your car at liberty, high school, you can run for six miles.

G

Before you have to go down the hill to where the old lido's used to be it's flat, and so you.

G

Know being an old dude, I didn't want hills, so I'm just gonna say applaud what you're doing.

G

Again, connecting the community the way you are connecting assets, I think, is huge. You know you're.

G

Talking about tiny ridge elementary and you're, talking about um you, know, easements and things.

G

There's slopes along that road that are difficult. I have no idea how you're going to do it.

G

And it will be expensive but again just being able to connect assets like liberty, high school.

G

You know, there's there's a significant church there. um uh What's the freedom, you know being.

G

Able to connect community assets with sidewalks, I think, is an enormous asset to any community.

G

um Whether it's westminster, you know hampstead eldersburg, whatever, so I'm I'll quit quit waxing.

G

On this is huge to me, and I think I appreciate it um and again I have no issues with the letter.

A

Very good matt any thoughts yeah, I think, they're all really good ideas, and uh I.

E

Remember talking about the the connect connecting roads there at slacks, road and.

E

All that- and I think, they're all very good ideas and definitely should be considered.

A

Very good, thank you, melinda. I think it sounds like as a commission we're good with a letter.

A

um And we appreciate the support we're getting uh from everyone who's involved. So uh thank you.

G

Do you need a motion on this one suggestions.

B

Because it is an official letter, that's moving forward um and I will change the date on it to.

B

Be tonight's date, so I think you should uh take a vote on the letter. I move that.

G

We authorized jeff to sign this letter and um and and send it on to the commissioners and thank you.

E

Yeah I'll, second, that all right motion, second ready for the discussion, all right.

A

All in favor all right all right, I think it's unanimously approved thanks. Gentlemen. Thank you.

B

All right, thank you so much and then really quick. I just want to tap off this evening.

B

And this won't take too much of your time. I just wanted to wrap up with where carroll county ended.

B

2021 with on the use and occupancy permits, um were you ready to move on.

B

Mr walters, I'm sorry I kind of went ahead on the agenda before you announced that item.

A

No, no, no! That's fine get right ahead. Item nine! We're there.

B

I apologize um so I just thought it would be good to have a recap, because uh 2021 was an interesting.

B

Year for various reasons, but we also saw um a jump in development more than we had in the past. Seven.

B

Or eight years, so I just wanted to share that with you and have this a little bit aside from.

B

The typical annual report, as you know, we prepared this annual report. It is kind of the building.

B

Pipeline, it shows you from plans to built um for that particular calendar year, but I want to just.

B

Separate this out for you so again, um last time control roof. I can just share my screen. Please.

B

That's on it tonight.

B

Oh, it does okay, weird all right, thank you because it was all grayed out on my end, so I'm gonna go ahead and do that then.

B

There we go okay, um can you see this.

B

Okay, can you see my screen? Yes, we can see it. Okay, great sorry. I can't the way it sets it up. I can't.

B

See you all okay, so, anyway, again these were the use and occupancy permits and that's how we.

B

Track uh population for the county, we use these.

B

Numbers to do our monthly numbers, we take how many houston occupancy permits were issued.

B

um For that particular month, we do it by election district and other breakouts fire ems uses. This.

B

A liquor board uses this information when they make their decisions.

B

So this past year we had a reset because of the census. We actually got our census numbers in.

B

um And we're still receiving more refined census data, so we redid those numbers and now we're.

B

Moving forward with what the reset was in april of 2021., so what we typically do and if you can see.

B

From this map, these are the 2021 new development using whoops use in occupancies um everything that.

B

Is in orange is our residential uno's and our purple are our non-residential use in uno's.

G

Linda, I have a question I mean. I'm sorry to interrupt is houston occupancy the same.

G

Thing as a certificate of occupancy is that the same thing, that's my understanding. Yes, thank you.

B

Yeah- and I don't know why this presentation wants to take off on its own, but it does.

B

So I'm just going to show it this way instead. um So again, so this.

B

Slide here is basically a chloroplex map of colored map that shows u and o counts, ranging.

B

From uh zero to a hundred and ten, and as you can see from this map, a lot of the activity really.

B

Took place in tinytown and westminster, um the freedom area had uh 35 new unos issued for 2021.

B

But um if you look at the map I mean I'm sorry the graph to the side. Actually, the freedom election.

B

District did not have I'm sorry. This is for the year 2020 um freedom, election district have.

B

uh 35 total, with 10 being in freedom and 15 being in the corporate limits of sykesville.

B

So for 2021 you're gonna see that flip, so in 2021, uh tawny town still has a lot of.

B

Uno's- and that only has to do with the meads crossing development that's being built um in that.

B

In chinese chinatown corporate limits, there's really no growth outside of the corporate limits.

B

Because they're they don't have the water and sewer um and the tiny town area does not have.

B

Good soils for perkins, so they can't even get a lot of subject systems on what is subdividable.

B

So all of the development really does happen in the town, corporate limits on their infrastructure.

B

So then, for 2021 you can see westminster's still holding at 79 there's a couple of developments.

B

There's a multi-family complex that is being developed in westminster, as well as stonegate.

B

Which is a single family community, so we had a couple still large developments, meadow branch.

B

That were still being built out in the westminster area, but around the county. Not too much I mean.

B

Nothing in union bridge or the middleburg area, I'm a little bit manchester and hampstead.

B

And also in mount airy and then new windsor had, I think it's called. I want to say, hi high ridge.

B

Or ridge um that new community in new windsor is being built, a single family and I believe.

B

Like a villa style and townhomes right outside um I'm sorry right inside the corporate limits.

B

So you can see here the cumulative month by month january through december and the bottom.

B

Column shows where, where they ended up for the month of december, so cumulative is in the red.

B

And I'll just point out, which I thought were some interesting facts, is that um the freedom district.

B

Cumulatively, outside the corporate limits only had six new houston occupancies pulled so out.

B

So sykesville is the hatched pattern. They have a lot because of the warfield complex and those.

B

Townhomes, but outside the freedom area, only six new unos were issued um again. This is the end.

B

Of the pipeline, so um it's not what's actively under construction, but what's really wrapping up.

B

So I thought that was interesting and I wanted to point that out to you again, union bridge has had.

B

Little to no development over the last several years, however, carroll county, um we have 507 use.

B

And occupancies pooled, if you look at that um 2020 versus 2021, that's about 130, more units.

B

That we gave you and o's to over 2021 than we did in 2020, and the next slide shows the trends.

B

From 2010 to 2021., if you look at the bottom row, we've been really hovering around that 200 to 300.

B

Mark um our low end was in 2011 with 198 and that's coming out of that great recession, and so.

B

Typically, when something gets a unl, that's already been in the pipeline for two, maybe three years.

B

From you know, site plan to building permits pooled to de construction happening.

B

To actual you know, use and occupancy is when the household is then taken over um and you.

B

Can see you know kind of some upticks, but really hanging around that mid threes mark for the better.

B

Part of a decade um this is the first year that we've gone not just over 300 but well. Over 300.

B

But again I think not in the areas one would expect. I think the majority of the development.

B

Really was, and I'll go back to this slide here was in that tiny town area had a huge spike.

B

As well as westminster and then um actually in the corporate limits of sykesville, so I just wanted.

B

To show that to you just so, you can get a gauge on how we ended up for the year and what the pipeline.

B

Ended up being, I thought it was really interesting that we actually went above above our 300.

B

About 400 and we hadn't really broken out of that in the better part of a decade.

A

That is interesting um thanks for sharing that in many ways it's nice to see yeah and linda. I would.

G

I would love to have a copy of that. Can you send that to us electronically absolutely and then I've.

G

Got a question concerning if somebody builds a multi-unit facility, does that show up as one.

G

Use if I could see or or or do you credit, you know if I build an apartment complex with 20.

G

Units does that show up as 1 or 20. It shows up as the units cool that they can take occupancy yeah.

A

Very good, very good, any other questions for uh linda thanks for sending that to.

A

Us, but that will be handy absolutely. I will make a note to myself to do that.

B

That's terrific, yeah and you'll get that in more detail. I just wanted to really pull.

B

That out separately, when we do the annual report, like I said we do the whole pipeline from what's.

B

Been planned, what's actually happened. I think it's really interesting to see that information.

B

Yeah yeah and again that that's great information and you know jeff. We we've talked about this and.

G

Commissioner, I I believe you were in the meeting too, when we were talking about percentage growth.

G

And what's healthy, you know and what you know, what are we trying to manage to a certain number.

G

I mean I I don't like quotas and I don't necessarily want like you know. Well, you know.

G

We didn't hear our numbers this year, that's not necessarily our job, but to some degree you know a.

G

Healthy economy should be defined as something and I don't know what that I don't know how we define.

G

That and- and I would love you know and again I don't think it's a manhattan project. You linda.

G

You're covered over, you know, I'm going to give you something else to do right. No, no! That's not! It.

G

Be interesting for us as a group, and I don't mean to sound clinical, but you know to have a.

G

Conversation around what we think is healthy for our county. What do we think we can manage.

G

You know in terms of schools, safety, roads, all those things, because I don't have the answer.

G

Those numbers look reasonable and they're also seem. You know fairly consistent, like you said,.

G

Linda you know, so I'm not saying it's right, I'm not saying it's wrong. It is what it is.

G

As a group, though, I think we ought to kind of have an eye on it, because there's a number where, where.

G

I'm pretty sure we would all say you know what you know. We need to hit the brakes on something.

G

um But I don't know what that number is right. I don't know yeah it's interesting pete and you know.

A

The other thing is we're involved as a planning commission in different aspects of this. um So when.

A

We're looking at site plans we're on just about the earliest part of this that we can be the use.

A

And occupancy stuff, linda you just shared with us, is on the complete other end of that process.

A

And there are a whole bunch of variables in the middle like develop, you know, can developers get.

A

How available is our loans and how cheap is money and what's the housing demand and what are.

E

Mortgage rates and a whole bunch of other stuff. um But I do like your idea because I think we do want.

A

To know from where we sit is what we're looking at a reflection of a healthy carroll, county.

A

um And there's also a mixture of you know how much commercial development we're seeing because.

A

We've been educated about that a number of times in terms of what that means to the tax base and.

A

And all of those sorts of things- and, of course we watch where it's happening are these in priority.

A

Funding areas and designated growth areas and all of that so.

A

um That's a long way, I think, I'm building on a pizza, or at least trying to that.

A

Seeing this macro picture we're so in the weeds, sometimes on these.

A

Pieces of things um it's useful to see how it's, how it's shaking out, sometimes years down the road.

A

So so thank you for that and, as you have opportunities, maybe um to share some of that.

A

With us from different perspectives, I think it just helps, educate us. um It's nice to jump out.

A

Of the trench once in a while take a look around the field and see see how things are shaping up.

A

Any other comments: matt, you have anything you're, good, excellent.

A

So, thank you linda, um so that leaves us with just the last item with the general.

A

Public comment: do we have anybody out there that cares to speak to us tonight.

A

All right very good, then our next meeting is tuesday march, 2nd at 6 p.m. With the interim.

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Meeting canceled, commissioner, thank you for uh getting some other folks in the pipeline for.

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Us we look forward to meeting them and having them on our team and uh with that I'd, be happy.

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To entertain a motion that we adjourn move, will you adjourn matt I'll? Second, that all right all.

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In favor thumbs up, thank you all very much, really appreciate everything great to see you good night.

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