Carroll County, MD Carroll County Planning and Zoning Commission, 14 Dec 2021

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From YouTube: Planning and Zoning Commission Meeting December 14, 2021

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https://www.carrollcountymd.gov/government/boards-commissions/planning-zoning-commission/

A

Familiar with it, they put into place in 2019 a redistricting committee specifically for freedom.

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Elementary and that was in process when hovid came and it's something that's been difficult.

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To continue with with them, in light of that, so it's my understanding that that is on pause.

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Until I believe they said until the actual 2020 figures are available for enrollment.

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And what they do once they have those figures I can't say so: that's the school board school.

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Board's looking at the uh redistricting, which I anticipate would be a resolution to the concerns.

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For overcrowding that exists currently again, that's something the school board's doing. That's.

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Not something that development review is doing, it's not something that planning commission is doing or the developer is doing so. We're kind of at the whim is what the school board is doing.

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We're hoping that that picks back up again here soon, if not for this project and other projects.

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But more so for the kids who are in these and work private schools, but again that's the school board.

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However, with that being said, we have chapter 156 in place to consider adequate facilities being.

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Provided again to make sure that development presidential development does not outpace.

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The public facilities that are available, it's a concern, some consideration throughout the review.

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Process, however, it's tested in detail at the preliminary stage of subdivision.

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In this situation here today, we are in the concept stage of subdivision. So again the adequate.

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Facilities are tested in detail at preliminary and today we're at concept. So we can recognize that.

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There is an issue and in the future, we'll look at that in detail and identify exactly.

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Where we are and what impact this project and other projects in the area will have it's a.

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Very comprehensive review of, what's going on in the area, to impact those facilities.

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And when it gets to the preliminary phase, that's when that will happen when it gets.

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To that phase that there are still inadequacies that have not yet been addressed, that's to say.

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God forbid, the the regular searching committee is still on hold, because code is still an issue.

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Five years from now, who knows um and if those issues have not been addressed or there is not.

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A way to address them, essentially, the plan would not be able to be approved to the point where.

A

Their houses are being built until those issues are resolved or have a plan for resolution. So.

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Again, this is not something this plan can't move ahead and you can't have these houses be built.

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Until everything's been approved, the next step is preliminary f preliminary. We will look in detail.

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At the public facilities in the area determine adequacies versus inadequacies and look for ways.

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That that is either currently being addressed or need to be addressed in the future before.

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Anything gets approved to the point of being built, so I just wanted to recognize that I know we don't.

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Have anybody here in the meeting room, I'm not sure if we're going to have any citizens coming.

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To speak, but that was a continuing chair and through all the communications we've received.

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Through emails and through people, I've talked to personally as well. So that is something that we.

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Look at in detail in the future moving forward, so in this situation here today again backing out of.

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The future and the theories there we're looking at a concept plan we're looking at a concept plan.

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For considerations, any questions or comments that the commission or the public might have for the.

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Developer and engineer, and in particular in this situation, it's a cluster subdivision.

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um We're seeking, or rather the developers seeking approval to proceed as a cluster subdivision.

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So at that time I feel, like I've talked enough here right now, I'd like to answer any questions.

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If anybody had questions or offered an opportunity for the planning commission to ask questions.

A

Of the engineering developer, so so thank you kirsten that was that was great appreciation.

B

Again, very good in particular, since you stepped in for somebody else, yeah. Typically, what we'll do.

B

Is I was going to ask the developer if they have anything to add and then we'll ask some questions.

B

And then we'll give the public an opportunity comment, but I really think it was nice having you.

B

Addressed a number of the concerns that have been raised by the public in the emails that we've all.

B

Gotten that read and seen, and the information from the public also attached to our package.

B

um So that mr packet or um mr powers, do you have anything to add to the presentation.

B

Yeah, just a couple of things, um we're quite aware that we have to abide by the facilities, ordinance.

C

You know, as the process goes through preliminary and in the final plot, um the clustering.

C

Is really what we're asking for today? um Clustering out, obviously, is basically done on.

C

Every project nowadays because of the regulations and the sensitive areas on how to preserve them.

C

You can certainly develop a project conventionally based on the euclidean zone, um but what ends up.

C

Happening is, is your lots are larger but they're confined by individual easements that encumber.

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Those lots and what that does is then, then those people believe they own the land still.

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And then next thing you know you have sheds in the forestry and so on. So we believe that keeping the.

C

Cluster and putting your open space in the hoa and your stream buffer area is all on prop. You.

C

Know, property that's owned by the community at large uh gives you a better product in the end.

C

um And uh you know it's a. It definitely uh creates those open space areas. It does preserve a lot.

C

Of your limit of clearing and everything else, so overall, the conventional uh zone has no open space.

C

Regulations so virtually you'd have the same. You have these lots sprawled out with no open space.

C

Grant you'll still have some woods there at all. You'll still have stream buffers, but they'll be.

C

On private properties, so anyway, that's that's where our request is and we're hoping that.

C

Planning commission season favorable comment: they come okay before we proceed too much. I feel bad.

A

Laura went out and took pictures of the site and I skipped right over them. So I think a lot of us.

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Are familiar with the area um just for the sake of us having full understanding before the planning.

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Commission considers uh the project and we'll take a look at this here. So these are, I think, for.

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The most part all on oklahoma road, some of them, are facing north. Some of them are facing south.

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um In particular note I just wanted to say that the properties across the street from oklahoma.

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Road for a good stretch of oklahoma road have a lane on the side that could be used for parking.

A

That's not something that is proposed again for this site, because we have acceleration and.

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Deceleration lanes instead and the properties are built back off of new roads inside of the.

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Subdivision so they're not accessed from the oklahoma grid, but that's something that's.

A

Not going to change on the other side of the street as far as I can see again on this plan here,.

A

um That's something that is sidewalk and curb on the northern side or the eastern western side.

A

Excuse me on the property side and then acceleration and turn lanes throughout or the.

A

Other intersections there too, so these are just showing some of those areas. So I apologize for.

A

Sticking over this earlier and please continue any questions you might have all right questions.

D

I have one so I know monroe coming from liberty. Road is pretty well traveled yeah, a lot of people.

D

Use it as shortcut mint chorus, oklahoma gets a lot of speed coming up the road. Don't shoot me.

D

But is there any consideration to a circle there at oklahoma and monroe it would help.

D

Maybe slow things down a little bit and alleviate some stuff, possibly.

E

We have not um the uh traffic engineer um as doing the study looked at the intersections.

C

Themselves, they meet site distance requirements. Normally those kind of facilities would be used.

C

If you cannot meet those site, distance, stopping site, distance headlights.

C

Slight distance and so on, um and they that therefore they would.

C

Slow the speeds down to make the traffic uh uh you know handle the volume through that whole segment.

C

In this case, we do meet those criteria, so you know that they weren't recommending that.

F

Enhancement yeah, when we look at the coming right off of what you're saying that.

E

It would seem to me that if we are redirecting traffic on monroe and frankly, I think it's a.

E

Good idea, I know the people in the community that don't think it's a good idea, but the.

E

The the intersection of oklahoma and bennett is challenging uh to improve in the future, and so it.

E

Would make sense to me that some people would would come down um oklahoma and turn left on.

E

Monroe, when it's, when it's connected by that bridge, that the county's going to do.

E

And get over to bennett using this road? Is it? Was there any consideration, because.

E

If we're using that as a as a secondary collector monroe is a secondary collector, would it not make.

E

Sense to take some of those homes that are on monroe and avoid having so many driveways come off.

E

And put them on road a which you're now using as a as a there's, a common area with the fire pit.

E

In there um I, I would have thought that we might be able to get three or four more homes on road, a.

E

And get those driveways off of particularly there near the entrance where you're talking about the.

E

Traffic calming I'm wondering if there's an opportunity there um to to get some of those.

E

Driveways people backing in and out you know and again people do what they do on monroe anyway.

E

And they they do motor down that road. They they go pretty quick down that hill. So I was just curious.

E

About that, um and that's just a comment: it's it's not I'm not trying to micromanage. You know.

E

Powers, I know people who bought their homes. They have nothing but good things to say about you and.

E

The homes you build, this is not an indictment on that. It's just an observation. There.

E

Concerning the number of driveways we have coming out on what will be a secondary, collective.

E

um I guess the second thing I wanted to ask is on sites this large, where we're putting curb.

E

And you are putting curve and gutter and storm water management throughout the site.

E

Is there not an opportunity to consolidate storm water management instead of having three or four.

E

Or five ponds, um is there not a way to do regional detention on this site? That would would even.

E

Give more open area is there a way to do that? The answer the quantity there's two different.

C

Things going on just the storm water is handled by quantity, management and then water quality, okay,.

C

The couple large facilities that you see.

C

um Are handled handling the quantity? Okay, all those small bio retention area, as you see, and all.

C

The little squares that are dry wells that are on individual lots, that's part of the water quality.

C

The esds, which environ the environmental site, design um there's some forest, the.

C

Actual um your rain gardens, if you will.

C

Bio retention areas they're only allowed to have so much drainage going to them believe it or not.

C

It's 20 000 square feet, it's a half acre, really, okay, each one it's about, and it doesn't have to be.

C

20 20 000 square feet of uh impervious area because just 20 000 square feet of berry. Okay,.

C

That you have to place these, so you, if you know, if you have 20, you have 19 000 square feet of grass.

C

And 1 000 square feet of impervious area. You still have to have a facility the same as if it was.

C

20 000 square feet of parking area. um We try to do regional type facilities whenever possible.

C

There you go, that is that's the thing you strive for right. Unfortunately, it.

C

With today's interpretation of the regulations and the change in regulations, um that's have.

C

Occurred over the past, probably 10 to 15 years. You don't see those as possible, but that is that.

C

Would be your priority right? I don't think it would be a a great way to to help the developer.

E

Maximize the site as well and also for the community I mean, could you end up with all these.

E

uh Detention ponds, the last thing I'll say is, and this is coming from the community as well. What I.

E

Hear is when we allow for clustering and we have these open spaces, and I don't need to monopolize.

E

The time here I apologize, it would be nice um while the developer has control of the development.

E

For the developer, rather than just placing a fire pit and some benches around, if you could create.

E

A blacktop with a tennis court or a basketball hoop or something improve it before you hand it.

E

Over to the hoa, because they'll never agree on it, while you've got control of the site, you can.

E

Decide what amenity, if any you're going to put in the community, would like to see more than just a.

E

Field plopped out there, which we've seen in the past, where there's a field that has nothing but.

E

You have to maintain it, you have to mow it, but, aside from taking a golf club out there.

E

And hitting golf balls there's really: no, there are no soccer nets. There's no uh there's really.

E

Nothing out there for the community to use other than open space, and so I would encourage you.

E

To consider what the market would want in in that amenity space that could be used during daylight.

E

Hours aside from just a fire pit, I would I would encourage you to think through that and bring it.

G

Forward, I can appreciate your thought process. What we found is going. We did have amenities in the.

G

Past similar to what you described, but there are two issues that have creeped into liability issues.

G

You know the homeowners association takes on much more liability for those type of active facilities.

G

The second issue is, is it brings people from outside the community.

G

In and the residents within the community don't necessarily appreciate that, because the amenity.

G

Should be for their use, not necessarily for surrounding communities, so those are the two.

G

Things that kind of drive, I think, the way we've been addressing the issue you're describing.

G

And I think they're very real and I just think the commission should consider those type of things.

G

That's that's why we've been kind of proposing more passive, open space, but no liability issues.

G

And the ability not to attract people from using the facilities that aren't really entitled to you.

G

So I think those are some driving factors as to why we're proposing the kind of uses.

G

We're proposing in the open spaces, okay- and that makes sense, and, along with the liability.

D

The homeowners do tend to rise with insurance hit certain you know reserved to take care of that.

D

So it um I think, it's personal, I think it's best left with these yeah and I hear.

E

What both of you are saying we, as a commission, we've heard continuously through this process,.

E

Through the through the zoning regulation, the residential zoning regulation process, we heard.

E

Over and over again, why are we doing this? Because these open spaces there's really no real.

E

Benefit to the community, if we're going to allow for clustered homes, which is what we're asking for.

E

There needs to be some sort of benefit to the community.

E

County's not building any parks anytime soon in that area, we've got 30 000 people living in 19, 000.

E

Acres now so having places where people don't have to get in the car, they can literally, you know, put.

E

The kid in a stroller walk up the street and you know in contain. I think it's a good thing. I get.

E

What you're saying and you know the great points and I I I have no combat other than what we're.

E

Hearing from the community is quite not quite the opposite from what you two are saying, because you.

E

Know we haven't heard anybody from a homeowners station say we don't want that. We actually we've.

E

Heard the homeowners say we would have liked to have seen it. That's what we've heard from the.

E

Community, what we uh I'm sorry, sir, but we end up when we look at this project, we try to stick to.

C

More of a community area as far as a nice area, this is not just a little fire pit that looks.

C

Like a ring of a wheel or something that you, you know, it's a substantial uh structure um with.

C

You know the park-like setting um and the main reason why we didn't get into uh whether it's.

C

Cod lots or any type of like multi-purpose, court, basketball, court or anything is our proximity.

C

To the middle schools right next to there's all you know, there's there's fields there that.

C

Are additional that are more that are probably they're? Obviously, you know they're able to be used.

C

um For public use, um so we looked at that, I mean and again uh because the school in this situation.

C

Is right next door? It makes this site kind of unique because it is their neighbor. um If we.

C

Were out sort of further away, not in walmart we're even proposing to put a sidewalk that'll.

C

Walk you through the guy that person's run walk strolling right over to the school. um You know.

C

So- and I know the sidewalk's not going any further than that at this point in time, but sometimes you.

C

Know these sidewalks of nowhere may get extended um and then mr powers is willing to build that.

C

um So, anyway, that's that that was our thought process um and again you know this is at the.

C

Concept stage we certainly are going to be front in front of this board um at least one more time.

H

In addition by clustering, the the job, it allows the open space to be enjoyed by everyone in the.

G

Community, if we had a standard plan, they wouldn't have access to this open space. Yes, it would still.

G

Exist, it'd still be protected by easements, but this affords the ability for everyone within.

G

The community to benefit from the open space and whether it's used actively or passively, we can.

G

Debate that all day long, but ultimately I think it benefits the customer and the consumer that lives.

G

There to be able to access it equally, like all the other residents and have rights to walk through it.

G

To do what they want with it, and I think that's an important element that should be considered agreed.

E

And again I'll say it out loud: I'm not opposed to clustering here on this property I live and what.

E

Was the flight path to the to the airport here, and there were times when you know somebody was.

E

Flying into that old airport- and you just prayed for a tailwind, because you know you heard the.

E

Engine kind of cutting out you know, lord, give him, give him a win because he's not going to make it.

E

And so I'm glad this thing's getting developed from that sample and, frankly again, I'd like to see.

E

You be the developer, so it's not clustering. It's not you. um The comments back from the community is.

E

These open spaces that are passive, they'd like to see something more done by the developer and not.

E

Just leaving it as grass so that that's what we've heard and I'm just reflecting that back.

E

Your direction, thank you. What I would say really, I think your biggest benefit is the environmental.

F

Work quality side by clustering and I think a lot of people forget about that side of it.

I

Natural services are important and that's the open space areas.

D

Yeah and we've heard from a lot of the communities too, that they.

D

Like seeing that natural environment, so do you know that I just a couple follow-up.

B

Do we have any idea? This may not be knowable, but do we have any idea of when the.

B

When the connection to monroe avenue would take place, so it goes from a dead end in this.

B

Development connection is that any way to predict that or that could be just whenever we don't know.

C

The uh the developer of the dan phillips property, which is that segment of road only built it down.

C

To a certain point and did not extend it across the stream to the hobie wolf property, I don't.

C

Know I didn't do that project, so I don't know why it was only built to a portion of it um and.

C

There are some monies that were bonded and the design was done to the property line, but.

C

They weren't forced to build it. There um we're planning on building it entirely all the way to.

C

Our property, so I would imagine the cip would miss eisenberg talked about ultimately will.

C

Fill in that gap, as you know, in the in the county, particularly in this area, we have these segments.

B

Of roads and then they're missing segments- and this is an opportunity to sort of fill that in.

B

But of course, then some of the comments we've heard from the community are then people cut.

B

Through- and this is what I think mr luster is getting at, if, if people start using monroe avenue.

B

As sort of a cut, you know fast forward to it's all completed and you've got it all the way through.

B

Are there things that you can do to slow traffic down there I mean. Is that.

B

Something that's a county road, so yeah, you have to meet certain standards and I think.

I

There's a bad term to use, I mean these are throughs. These are counting roads for connectivity.

I

um It's not like we're creating these crazy shortcuts and things like that and.

I

That's why you have this inner connectivity, so traffic isn't funneled to one particular area.

I

It's diffused throughout the system and that makes it better for everyone, so we're not putting all of.

I

This traffic, because then we get the complaints 26 is congested. 32 is congested when you have.

I

This ability to travel different ways, you diffuse that system and you spread the traffic out across.

I

The area more evenly, so I would say this isn't really a cutter. It's just part of that continuous.

I

Road network of interconnectivity- and I guess the reason I say cut through- is because you really are.

B

Giving it is true, you defuse the traffic, that's good. The bad news is you're diffusing it into a.

B

Neighborhood and that's the that's the concern I'm raising is then there are ways for the county to.

B

Deal with that chicane, if it becomes an issue, then you know we always evaluate those and come up with.

I

Whatever the best solution is for that particular area and that's something that our public works.

I

Department would look into, and I'm not saying that you know we shouldn't be proactively. Looking at.

I

These we should be waiting for issues, but we don't know if there is going to be issues that aren't used from this too. So it's hard to tell until something really happens, what the outcomes will be.

I

But there are, there are efforts that could happen in the future if there is issues. No, I appreciate.

B

That and those were comments that were coming from the public so but easiest things to raise them.

B

Right now and then one other comment we saw from the public is in the top left corner of the screen.

B

There were some members of the public that live in that area and we're talking about.

B

um The fact that I think the plan did not call for any berms or um landscaping, and it would be.

B

Sort of they were concerned about that with their property backing up to this.

B

Neighborhood, do you have any comments concerning that concern? I mean we can certainly place some.

C

Landscaping back in those areas, um we have to look, I mean normally, when you have residents or.

C

Residential you're not you're, not really screening per se, because it's the similar use right.

C

The uh we weren't planning on any berms just because of the grade uh the way the grades are.

C

Back there, um some of those areas along that property line rolling view drive that whole.

C

That little corner there um virtually what's happening is we're going to a lot of that area.

C

We're going to be cutting, so it's all it's going to be. Basically it's going to be a hill, so the.

C

Houses are actually going to be down a little bit in elevation, um and so, if there's room towards.

C

The tops of the hills to put some evergreens and stuff like that I'll, be happy to spend some money.

B

The last question I have really is about the school and their sidewalk.

B

I'm not quite understanding why we're running I mean I'm, I'm a fan of sidewalks and I like.

B

Them connected, and it's just going nowhere. This seems to go to the school and then the school.

B

Says we don't want the sidewalk, um do you have an understanding? Why what the problem there is.

A

Well, if I could, I would like to give you also the opportunity to talk, but if I could it's not.

A

The school doesn't want the sidewalk. The school wants the sidewalk to continue to its property.

A

Lines but there's no current plans in place for them to construct their own sidewalk to meet it.

A

Will that happen in the future in a long enough time frame? Probably, is it on the plans right now.

A

No they're saying there's not any plans for that right now today and that could change if sidewalk.

A

Does come to meet the school property right? That could become something that shows on the plans, but.

A

At this time they don't have the plans, but they are in support of the sidewalk meeting school.

A

Property, I know it's a chicken egg thing, it always is exactly um so just I didn't know if there was.

B

The school was actively opposed to a sidewalk. Coming to me, it sounds like they're, just not.

B

Going to put one in right now until you, um if I could before they, I think, laura's discussing.

A

With them they're a little bit opposed to the sidewalk being here um this feature here, if you.

A

Can see this rectangle shape? That's a storm water management pond. The sidewalk basically opens into.

A

A storm water management pond the access is not um not very ideal, you better, have it practical is the.

G

Word that I refer to previously for the sidewalk, I think that's the question here in the discussion.

A

Is this current connection practical and what is a better alternative, and how do we.

A

Meet that alternativeness right, you gotta talk to the neighbors and maybe they'll agree.

B

That's still to be done, yeah I mean if, if they allow it, um then the sidewalk would get built.

C

Right along oklahoma right to the property line yeah, we just wanted to satisfy the comments and.

C

County wanted the sidewalk to the property line, and that's the only way we could get it there.

C

uh We could certainly direct the sidewalk and sort of angle it a little bit. So it's.

C

Not pointing at the stormwater management pod but it'll angle, if they take off from.

C

It there's nothing that says the sidewalk or a pathway has to be parallel to a roadway.

C

Right some places meander them anyway themselves to try to turn out. Some of these. You know see.

C

Some of the streetscape that's going on around, but we're flexible with that stuff and we don't have.

I

Readable, unfortunately, when we couldn't construct a signal on those particularly right yeah, that's.

C

That's one of the issues they would have to get the right way, they'd be actually dedicating land.

C

um You know for the right of way and and placing the sidewalk where it would normally.

C

Be placed right, so it's not just a matter of the sidewalk, so that's it would grant us an easement.

B

All right good any questions or comments before we well, I would say one comment just.

F

You know once they connect with the road street and you get a lot of traffic across there.

F

Hasn't been any thought, maybe that the the lots of front okay on the road there on the.

F

Road that they should be pushed back in case at some point, the county would like to construct a.

F

Roundabout there, because I know that's the best way to swim traffic in an.

F

Area, that's going to get a lot more traffic eventually.

F

Maybe some room should be left there, so they could possibly do that if we could look at that.

C

Shift into another location that kind of thing yeah: well, you can bring that back to it I mean if it doesn't work, it doesn't.

B

Work yeah. The only thing you have to look at is the stormwater management.

C

You make up you've shipped a lot to another location, you're redoing, the stormwater management for that area. That's it so it's all happening.

C

Okay, thank you anything else. I guess the last thing. This is simply because we really haven't.

E

Discussed it um in that we've completed the residential text and well we're about to about.

E

To get it, um the activity in this area is going to pick up like this, and it's a good thing. Let's get.

E

This stuff done it's getting done by people who are good at doing it um at the same time, what's.

E

Happening with schools down there, you know we don't have any control over what to do there.

E

But we just need to say it out loud, the community. What's going on at carroll town elementary and.

E

Freedom elementary, which are the two schools elementary schools closest to this property.

E

um I mean redistricting will only solve so much and um we've got something coming here.

E

Commissioner, wants that that you know we got, we got some problems here. I mean it's not just.

E

Traffic- it's not just sidewalks that it's there's a school thing here and um because.

E

These people are not going to move in here with with no kids, uh they're gonna be some.

E

They're gonna be some some people sitting in seats, so I don't know how we address that.

E

There's this is coming folks, so we need to and- and I I yeah I've got no no solution to it, but I'd be.

E

Surprised if we don't hear that as the primary thing from from the constituents of new york.

H

I mean we hear that yes, sir, but we're a little bit.

H

Our hands are a little bit tied. The ultimate responsibility for that is on them.

H

Them being carroll county, public schools, you're serving the board of ed and there's he and I'm.

H

Not saying anything out of school here, no pun intended. uh But whenever you say redistricting.

H

It's immediate, oh yeah, uh so with with respect to that they're they're treading lightly over there.

H

And I'm not so sure that continuous work shouldn't have been occurring there, so we do have a positive.

H

Conclusion I know commissioner rossteen represents that area very well continues to try to poke them.

H

To to free up that effort because talk about chicken and egg.

H

You know something's got to give, so you know the good thing about it is that the schools in that.

E

Area are terrific schools, they are and that's why people want to be in the area. So you know we've.

E

Got this attractive thing that we're going to mess up? I mean it's kind of like nashville right I mean.

E

Nashville is a great place to live, they're messing it up. I mean the amount of growth down. There is.

E

Just staggering uh it's going to be atlanta, which I loved, but again they messed it up. You know well.

H

And we will continue to do so because we do not want to be behind that eight ball. We have the.

H

Responsibility for roads, public safety and we're actively working on that. But yet the redistricting.

H

Is not active, so that's sort of the missing piece of the puzzle now that we need them to.

H

Really step up and engage okay, and I'm just that from a process standpoint just for those that.

B

Are listening and having this concern- and I know there are a number of them- there is a chicken egg.

B

Because if we, if we go forward and this plan gets on the books, then that's something else for the.

B

School system and others to look at and evaluate and maybe redistricting while it's short-term.

B

Fix if it is longer term having these on, the books means that maybe they can think more long term.

B

Because what's out there and resources accordingly, and also, as kirsten said from a concurrency.

B

Management standpoint, if the schools or any other infrastructure is inadequate, this can't go forward.

B

It might be on the books, but it's not going to be right, so those from a process standpoint. Those are.

B

uh In place to make sure you don't have you know, 5 000, kids in a 300 school.

B

So with that, why don't we uh open up? Do we alison's working people are on the phone, so.

I

People have to sign up ahead of time in order to speak and comment, um and that's also on the.

I

Agenda, if you look for each item, that's posted on our agenda. We let the public know how to comment.

I

um On these topics so lar, I don't believe we had anyone sign up now for public comment for this.

I

Item, okay, so other than the written comments. That's all we've received. Okay, very good. Well,.

B

We've received them, we've read them. We've raised a lot of the issues that were in those.

B

Comments um and kirsten, of course, preemptively addressed some of those in the presentation, so.

B

um We appreciate that very much. I guess in terms of why this is preliminary. Is it technically an.

B

Action item in terms of approving clustering is that something we have to take a motion.

A

Yes, that's my understanding with the cluster subdivisions.

A

uh You would have to authorize that so you're not approving a cluster plan, you're authorizing it.

B

And the report did a real nice job of laying out what the standards are and.

B

That meets all of those requirements, and you include that in your report um as well so.

A

Requesting developer request authorization of cluster, so I I would imagine that would.

A

Be commissions, authorization, cluster, the movie, wolf property subdivision; okay,.

B

Mr almonds, that seem correct you, yes, okay, excellent, but with that then.

B

If there's an interest, I'd be happy to entertain a motion or approval of the question.

B

I'll make that move now I'll, just post it there a second I'll. Thank him yeah. We have two seconds.

B

So that's good any further uh discussion. All right um are we should we do a roll call or just.

B

The voice pick, I might think we just do this: okay, all those in favor all right. Anyone post.

B

Then yes, thank you. Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you very much. Everybody.

B

Very good, we'll move on to uh item 10 on our agenda, which is.

B

uh Preliminary final subdivision plan: this is fx21-0004 bachmann overlook, section 2.

B

J

All right, good morning, again, david b craft here development review.

J

As I already mentioned, the next project on the agenda is the bachmann overlook section.

J

Two preliminary and final subdivision plan: this is file number fx21-0004.

J

uh With me is the engineer and the developer I'll: let them introduce themselves jeff, zigler.

C

With clsi uh richard paul, I'm the owner of bachmann llc good morning good morning, all.

J

Right, so what this project is proposing is uh two new lots of subdivision, plus the remaining portion.

J

This was before the planning of zoning commission previously as a concept plan earlier this year,.

J

It was actually may 18 2021 and, as this is before the planning zone commission, as a combined.

J

Preliminary and final plan, we are looking for two actions that are required with this. uh The first.

J

One being the approval of the preliminary and final plan of subdivision pursuant to chapter 155,.

J

And the second is the approval of the preliminary and final plan of.

J

Subdivision pursuant to chapter 156, which is concurrency management, so for those who.

J

May not recall this is right on the outskirts of manchester, so this red line here is the municipal.

J

Limits of manchester here is tracy's mo road, and then this site right here is outlined in yellow.

J

So the subject property itself is roughly 15 and a quarter acre parcel shown as a remaining.

J

Portion of bachmann overlook, which was recorded the most recent one being recorded, may 14th 2020.

J

uh Within plant book 55 page 322, the property is not developed, as you can tell from the aerial here.

J

And it slopes upwards from tracy's mill, road towards the southern property. So as.

J

You go further back to property, you get more and more uphill. There is roughly a 130 foot vertical.

J

Change of elevation, the southern property boundary is comprised of a wooded area that currently has.

J

A forest conservation agent on it, as you see, outlined or shaded with green excuse me and.

J

There are no streams or fema 100 year, floodplain designations on site. The property itself lies.

J

Within the agricultural zoning district, as do all of the adjoining properties that surround it,.

J

uh All the adjoining properties are undeveloped or are developed with single family dwellings.

J

These properties are outside of water and sewer service areas, priority funding areas.

J

And designated birth areas, so this is section two section: one of bachmann overlook created lots one.

J

Through three and those are the three houses right here- and that was done as a minor subdivision- that.

J

Was approved by the planning and zoning commission back in 2006., so what's being proposed now is the.

J

Creation of two additional lots: that's gonna, be again on the remaining portion.

J

Lots four and five are both proposed at two acres: each and they will reside along tracy's milk, road.

J

As you can see here, the remaining portion will then be at roughly ten to three quarters acres.

J

After this subdivision, and it will still be entitled to a creation of a subdivision.

J

Mod after this, a roughly half acre parcel shown as parcel a here will be deeded to the.

J

Adjoining property owner as a deed of add-on, both new lots are proposing single-family dwellings.

J

With individual access to tracy's bill road and each will have their own private well,.

J

And septic systems, so this concept subdivision plan was initially submitted in june of 2020. The.

J

Plan was subject to citizen involvement at the august 2020 technical review committee meeting.

J

There was one citizen who was an owner of an adjoining property that raised some concern.

J

With an existing culvert that was placed on his property and was getting washed out via the rain.

J

At that time, mr hall, I stated that he would work to remedy that problem. After that technical.

J

Review committee meeting and since uh we haven't received any calls or letters since that meeting.

J

uh On may 18th 2021 the planning agenda commission review the content time subdivision the minutes.

J

Are located within your planning, packets, uh again no citizen signed in or spoke during the meeting.

J

And we haven't heard anything uh written or spoken from citizens regarding this project. Since then,.

J

So this plan is exempt from floodplain code as currently designed, the landscaping ordinance.

J

Does not apply to this project. Grading in cinema control has granted approval on the final plan as.

J

Well, as engineering review and site state highway administration, the carroll county.

J

Health department has granted approval of the plan with again private oil and septic systems proposed.

J

Forced conservation will be addressed by way of a purchase of bank, the bureau research management.

J

Has granted final stormwater management approval, uh it will be addressed via microbio facilities,.

J

That will drain to a proposed culvert, which will run under tracy's middle growth, so the micro buyer.

J

Facilities, so here's one and then here is the other right here and they will drain to this.

J

Culvert that will run under tracy's mill, road and discharge on this property across the street.

J

uh As the proposed culvert will drain onto private property, uh we will look for some sort.

J

Of agreement between the two property owners, uh we have received a a draft of a stormwater.

J

Discharge and declaration agreement so we'll look to have that uh be required with platt recreation.

J

In accordance with the state development plan, memorandum from the department of planning.

J

The proposed land use is consistent with the 2014 carroll county master plans, land use, designation.

J

Of agriculture, so with that uh pursuant to chapter 155 staff recommends approval of the preliminary.

J

And final plan, subject to the following conditions: uh the owner, slash developer and his enters into.

J

A public works agreement with carroll county that guarantees completion of any required.

J

Improvements that the parcel shown on the plans as parcel a with an acreage of roughly a half acre.

J

Shall be deeded to the adjoining property owner as a deed add-on that a stormwater.

J

Management, easement and maintenance agreement be to the carroll county commissioners uh by indeed.

J

uh Drainage utility easement be granted to the carroll county commissioners by deed as well.

J

Stormwater discharge and declaration agreement for that culvert uh be recorded as well and then.

J

Finally, that any changes to the preliminary plan and plat estimated and approved by the commission.

J

Herein shall be resubmitted to the commission for further review and approval, and so with that.

J

I'm just going to show just some brief pictures here. Like I said, this was back in may, presented.

J

Accounting for planning zone commission, so these pictures are from that time nothing has changed.

J

Within uh seven or so months, so this is along tracy's mo road. Looking both ways- and this is.

J

Looking back at the site- and this is the sign from section one- this is about halfway up the property.

J

This one here is looking back at the road where you can really see the change in contour and then.

J

This one here is looking further back where that existing force area stands. So, as this is.

J

Considered a major subdivision being is how these are lots: number, 4 and 5 within.

J

The bachmann overlook subdivision. This is subject to concurrency management. Chapter 156.

J

So, pursuant to chapter 156, once an apartment has determined that the residential development plan.

J

May be presented to the commission, the plan is reviewed for available threshold capacity.

J

And so that entails various agencies, um so police services, schools, fire and emergency.

J

Or fire and ems services and then roads as well, so I'm going to go through each.

J

One, so you have an understanding, as so how this subdivision will impact those.

J

The first we'll do will be police services, so the ratio is calculated by counting all sworn.

J

Officers with law enforcement, responsibility in an incorporated municipality or within the county.

J

And by counting the total population within the incorporated municipalities and within the.

J

Unincorporated county, so what that boils down to is um at the end of october 2021 there was a and.

J

An estimated carol county population of 1 174 675 people, there are currently 245 sworn law officers.

J

With 10 sworn personnel currently in training and there's an additional 16 positions that are funded.

J

Based on a total of 271 funded positions, so that's 245, 10 and then the 16 and they're.

J

Open uh the ratio of law enforcement positions to carroll county population as of the end of october.

J

2021 is 1.55, based on a total of 255 positions, which is not counting the open positions just.

J

The offices that are currently on duty and those entering training, the ratio of sworn law office.

J

Office enforcement uh positions to carroll county population, as of the end of october, 2021, was 1.46.

J

Including the development projects in the pipeline, along with the funded positions.

J

The ratio will be over 1.3 services that are adequate if the projected ratio of sworn office.

J

Law enforcement officers to population is 1.3 to 1 000., so um with all of the positions we're at 1.55.

J

And then not looking at the opening positions, we're at 1.46 so still above that 1.3 threshold.

J

So with that police services are deemed adequate for schools, I'm not going to get too much in the.

J

Nitty gritty here, the proposed subdivision is located in the ebb valley, elementary north carol.

J

Middle and manchester high or manchester valley high attendance areas, in accordance with the.

J

Criteria established in chapter 156: all schools are rated adequate for fiscal years, 2022 to 2027.

J

So, just to give a brief on the numbers at the end of 2020 enrollment projections prepared by ccps.

J

Indicate that ed valley had an actual enrollment of 95.4 of state rated capacity. uh The projections.

J

Indicate that enrollment will be at 107.7 percent in fiscal year, 2026 to be deemed adequate.

J

Enrollments the projected enrollment equals or is less than 109 percent of state rate capacity. So.

J

um Although at 2026 it's starting to creep up there, it's still well below that threshold of 109.

J

For north carol middle now, again at the end of december of 2020, their actual enrollment was 82.2.

J

Percent of functional capacity, the projection stated that uh in fiscal year 2026 it would be.

J

85.7 so again, well below that 109 and finally, um for manchester valley, high their actual enrollment.

J

At the end of the december, 2020 was 95.7 percent, with the projection in 2026 being 96.8.

J

So for this subdivision, all schools are deemed adequate for fire and ems. The proposed subdivision.

J

Is located in the lineboro fire and ems districts, uh the most recent data from the office of public.

J

Safety reports that for the two year period of may 2019 to april 2021, the late and no response.

J

Statistical data indicates that of the first due total fire calls in the lyme birth district, zero.

J

Percent were categorized as node responses and 22.22 as late in their responses of the first due.

J

Ems calls 1.04 were categorized as no responses and 1.74 percent uh were categorized as late.

J

And new responses so line pro is rated adequate for late and no response criteria for fire and ems.

J

With regard to fire call average time the same two-year period may 2020 or 2018 to april.

J

2021 lineboro had an average response time of 9 minutes and 32 seconds. That is.

J

Deemed approaching inadequate with regard to ems call average response time they had.

J

An average response, time of 8 minutes and 14 seconds again, which is approaching inadequate.

J

Services that are rated adequate if, when utilizing an average over the previous 24 months,.

J

Response time is less than eight minutes or is eight minutes. It is deemed approaching inadequate.

J

If, again, within over 24 months, the average time is between eight minutes and ten minutes.

J

And again for fire and ems, the primary route for the firehouse to propose development does not.

J

Include travel over bridges that cannot adequately support fire and ems apparatus, which is adequate.

J

And the only road affected by the subdivision was tracy smilberg and that is deemed adequate.

J

So um as we're doing a combined preliminary and final at the same time, it's a little unorthodox.

J

So I'm going to try to go through this and explain so for chapter 156, our recommendations.

J

uh As this is a two lot subdivision, with no county road improvements, again preliminary plan.

J

Final plans were simultaneously processed and reviewed. I'm gonna go through the preliminary.

J

First, so, with regard to a preliminary plan, the code states- and this is straight from the code.

J

If a public facility or service is inadequate and a relief facility is planned in a six six-year.

J

Cip to address the inadequacy or mitigation is accepted by the county pursuant to chapter 156.

J

06 b or a public facility or service is approaching inadequate during the current.

J

Cip, the planning commission may conditionally approve the plan to proceed to final plan stage.

J

And issue a tentative recordation schedule and sensitive building permanent reservation.

J

Subject to modification at the final plan stage, so there's two separate parts to that section of.

J

Code, the first part talks about if it's only inadequate. The second part talks about if it.

J

Is approaching an adequate so as this has fire and ems approaching inadequate.

J

The planning commission can still conditionally approve the plan. The preliminary plan.

J

So with that, uh pursuant to chapter 156, staff recommends that the planning commission.

J

Conditionally approved the preliminary plan within conditions as follows: police schools and roads are.

J

Considered adequate fire and ems are considered approaching inadequate the building permit.

J

Reservation is for two lots and fiscal year, 2022 subject to modification at the final plaque stage.

J

The recognition schedule requires the plat to be recorded within 24 months of preliminary approval.

J

And finally, the building permit reservation is allowed to roll over year after year until the.

K

Sunset provision takes effect and the preliminary plan becomes void. So that's for the approval of.

J

The preliminary plan with regard to the final plan code states and again directly from the.

J

Code for projects that received a conditional approval and sensitive recordation schedule at.

J

The preliminary plan stage, the planning commission, shall review the facility or service which has.

J

Or which was inadequate or approaching inadequate at the preliminary plan stage and may modify.

J

The recognition schedule and building permit reservations or place the project in a queue.

J

At the discretion of the planning commission, as fire and ems services are considered approaching,.

J

Inadequate, the planning commission may approve the plan. They can modify the recreation schedule.

J

And voting permit reservation or they can decide to place the project within the queue.

J

The code also states that for projects that received a recreation schedule and building.

J

Permit reservation: at the preliminary plan stage, the planning commission secretary shall inform.

J

The developer, whether any existing or proposed building permit cap would be applicable to this.

J

Project uh there is no existing or proposed building permit cap that would be applicable.

J

To this project, so again with that pursuant to chapter 156, staff recommends that the planning.

J

Commission approve the final plan with the following conditions: the building permit.

J

Reservation is for two lots and fiscal year: 2022, provided the plan is recorded prior to any permits.

J

Being issued, the recognition schedule requires the plan to be recorded within 24 months of the.

J

Preliminary plan approval and finally, the building permit reservations, are allowed to roll over year.

J

After year, until the sunset provision takes effect and preliminary plan becomes void, so I know that's.

J

Quite a bit, so if you have any questions or confusions, I mean I'd be happy to help.

J

um And I'm sure mr ziegler, mr hall, also be able to answer any questions. You guys have that.

J

Was very helpful. Thank you. Let me just ask you, gentlemen, everything to add to his presentation.

L

Those are long process for two lots: yeah, we get it very good.

D

The only question I have is so we have three, it looks like three motions to make.

D

And do we need to itemize each one of those under the edge.

F

It's just two, I believe which is two versions. Oh, it is three yeah, so it's chapter 155.

J

uh Preliminary final chapter, 156 preliminary and then chapter 156 final.

J

Okay, oh I see you've got yeah, okay, one final question: so we'll we've prepared and submitted.

L

A draft copy of the off-site easement agreement included the access for the county facilities.

L

I've had previous ones signed by those owners everybody's in agreement. We have no problems.

L

I would like approval from your staff that the draft is acceptable before I get that signed.

L

And notarized again yeah, so um you did submit or I believe, csi somebody submitted. The draft.

J

Sent it over to mr allman, who looked it over and said that he did not find any issues with it.

J

You're cool, I'm cool with it. Okay good deal all right I'll, get that fine and we'll be ready.

H

Should be separate, separate motions and itemizing each like one, two, three four well one, two three.

H

Yes, but I I I I have one question concerning the site plan. You could go back to, of course,.

E

um Is there any merit to um having one access point right for the lots that might be developed.

E

In the back and the two locks in the front rather than three because we're going to have you know.

M

Two driveways coming out on this road and then also whatever access point that goes to the back.

E

Is there any merit to making those driveways come out to one access point that goes out on this road.

E

This road comes to a tee, I believe at hanover pike, I'm not sure it's a full intersection. I.

E

Think it's a t correct. I don't think it's a ton of it of traffic, I'm just asking that. Do we care as a.

E

County, I mean, what's your thought on that: it's not validated or just sir, the uh the access to.

L

To the first line, if you just standing on the road looking at the property, you access to lot number.

L

Four has been designed as a joint intersection, so it's a double wide driveway. At that point,.

L

So that the lot using the remaining portion on top of the hill and if he would, I doubt that, will ever.

L

Be developed due to the length of the distance off the road, but the double wide intersection air will.

L

Be shared by both of those parties, the remaining portion of 10 acres and lot number four, so that.

L

Someone pulling down the hill can stop and someone on tracy mill can already get off. So we've already.

L

Approached that good question, but there will only be two access points: okay, cause I'll follow with.

J

That um so lot number five is going to have its own apron. Its own driveway lot number four.

J

The one that's uh a little to the north here, yes, they're gonna have essentially a double wide apron.

J

So the the driveway for four will come off of that apron and then the driveway for the remaining.

J

Portion will come off that same apron like that, um but the remaining portion, if I remember right it.

J

Is able to be subdivided one additional time to have one additional lot, as you can see from all.

J

The dots on here perk testing has become an issue in this area, and so that's why they they went with.

J

The lots four and five and and put lot six you know maybe on the back burner like he said it.

J

Might be developed, it might not be developed, but um at this time the remaining portion, if deemed.

J

So by the health department is buildable per our code, so they certainly can put a driveway in and.

J

um You know offer that same apron for a lot and before and not have any additional access points.

L

Concerning your comment on traffic, uh a little about a mile out the road here on track tracing.

L

um For the last 30 years, traffic is pretty long.

B

All right anything else: um do we have any members of the public signed up to speak us steven? If you.

I

Can minimize this and go to the um yep, keep going and then go to the bottom here and go to go. Go.

I

Keep going to the right, the bigger too meeting, oh yeah, a little orange circle right there, um so I.

I

Are they gone down that.

I

Okay, all right, so no! No, we don't all right. Okay, that was probably mr rob hutter. Who was the.

L

Potential very much interested in the remaining portion, and I advised him that he could zoom in.

L

Today and watch a few weeks: okay, okay, so no would you not have any members of the public on the line.

B

All right well very good. If there's no further discussion, then I'd be happy to have someone try.

B

To formulate these three emotions, I will try so um pursuant to chapter 155, a planning commission.

D

Recommends approval of the preliminary and final plan subject to the following conditions: one.

B

Let me stop it. Do we need to read them, or can we just reference the six conditions.

H

Yeah you can reference the conditions, okay, all right, um so you're moving. I'm sorry! No! That.

D

That the following that fixed conditions on page three of the staff report.

H

And is there a second a second okay? So we have a motion in a second.

B

To approve chapter 155, the premier and final um plan, subject to the six conditions listed in.

B

The staff report yeah any further discussion. All right do we need a roll call or can do a question.

B

Okay, all those in favor all right. Anyone opposed.

B

Very good unanimously approved or janice. You want to give it a try pursuant to chapter 156,.

D

The planning commission recommends that we conditionally approve the preliminary plan.

D

With the following conditions that are listed on page five of the staff report- and there are.

D

Four conditions: you're, referring to yes, four, four, very good- is there a second to mrs motion.

B

Second, all right, so we have a motion in a second uh that percentage chapter 156 by.

B

The commission approves conditionally approves the preliminary plan with four conditions listed.

B

In the staff report at page five any further discussion, all those in favor aye. Anyone opposed.

D

Very good unanimously dennis try one last time to get it totally right.

D

Pursuant to chapter 156, the planning commission recommends that the class for.

D

Facebook bachmann overlap is.

D

Approval the final plan, with the conditions set forth the three conditions set forth in.

D

Page five of the staff report: again we have a motion. Is there a second.

B

Very good. Well so we have a motion: the second chapter 156, um when the commission.

B

Approved the final plan with the four I'm sorry, with the three conditions listed.

B

On page five of the staff report, is there any further discussion, all those in favor all right.

B

Now it is approved unanimously. Well, good luck. Thank you sure been a long.

L

Route. Thank you appreciate it. Thank you uh next item on our agenda. It's a recess.

B

The favorite part of the day we'll take a.

B

10 minute recess, uh we'll be back a couple minutes after uh it left for sure. Thank you. Thank you.

N

Okay, we're uh I didn't ask for a countdown, but hopefully they can hang with us and get us going.

N

um So we'll move on to item 12, which is a final site plan case number s, is in sam 20-034.

N

Eldersburg crossing third amended.

N

And uh good morning, good morning, good morning again, it's kirsten negro development review again.

A

And uh once more, we are in the eldersburg area, in fact, we're just a hop skip and a jump.

A

From the wolf subdivision, we were previously discussing further to the west up route 26.

A

So again, we're in eldersburg we're located at the intersection of route, 26 and route 32 sykesville.

A

Road and liberty, road at what uh I refer to as the old walmart site, which is technically.

A

Eldersburg crossing this is a third amendment site plan for eldersburg crossing. Not only is this.

A

Area familiar from our last project in this meeting, but also from the september.

A

Planning commission meeting in general, we discussed this very same project during the.

A

September 2021 planning, commission meeting concept. Now we are back for final final approval of the.

A

Site plan, um so if you recall- and if you were not here for that meeting, what is being proposed here.

A

Is a essentially a small addition to the existing old walmart building.

A

What is being proposed here is an addition on the western side of the old walmart building.

A

Where walmart used to have a garden center, there's a small.

A

Very small existing structure there, a part of the building- that's currently not utilized.

A

As well as an existing concrete pad, that is also essentially not utilized. So what the.

A

Developer proposes to do which I will allow them to introduce themselves here in a minute. I.

A

Apologize very excited to get this one wrapped up. The developer poses to do is essentially.

A

Put an addition on to this building to allow for a more spacious tenant site for a new tenant. So if I.

A

Could on that note, if I could have the developer and the engineer introduced themselves, please.

F

Jeff zigler with clsi and dave sullivan with quantum companies. Thank you, okay. So again, this.

A

Is the eldersburg crossing planned business or planned commercial center? This is just going to.

A

Be a new tenant essentially within that existing plant commercial center. It's going to add a.

A

Slightly larger addition to the existing structure, which is currently 2, 300 square,.

A

Feet in size and is proposed after the addition to be 5 800 square feet in size.

A

As you can see and tell from our discussions here, it's a pretty minor addition pretty.

A

Minor changes to the plans there's already existing concrete slab there they're just.

A

Tacking on a building on top, so with that being the case, their technical reviews were pretty minor.

A

They're, adding 15 new parking spaces parking is still adequate, as we previously went over from.

A

September's meeting this site as a whole has a multiplier variance for parking applied to it.

A

They went through a zoning case a few years ago for that, so the parking based on that is adequate.

A

They provide additional parking. Then what is the minimum requirement there? Everything.

A

Here is public water and sewer the health department's approved it utilities has approved.

A

It storm water management is already accommodated by existing structures on site, so there is no.

A

Additional need for any storm water management features and stormwater management approval.

A

Has been granted a zoning as well as is acceptable and has been approved this project as well.

A

There's no floodplain requirements, soil conservation or forest conservation.

A

For this project here landscaping, this is a funny thing for landscaping. I'm sorry we're.

A

Going to move to the plan, I apologize if you have a hard time seeing that so here's.

A

The addition I've been blabbing on about funny thing for landscaping, landscaping.

A

Screening, as required, they're proposing a new trash enclosure here on an existing parking area.

A

And landscaping screening is required that screening can be met in a variety of manners.

A

In this case, it's a vinyl fence and we are getting a landscaping bond for the vinyl.

A

Fence so that will be taken care of and that satisfies the requirements for landscaping.

A

Again, parking is acceptable. Additional markings for on the left-hand side on.

A

This plan, you can just barely see it and new ada compliant parking space, as well as a.

A

Crosswalk markings across the street to get to the front door of the new edition. The new tenant site.

A

And that satisfies permits, ada compliance requirements.

A

And with this site now we're moving a little bit further off site at this site. There's.

A

Two entrances existing three technically two come off of one comes off of down here on liberty, road.

A

There's a second entrance: technically you could get you from liberty, road, correct.

A

From the through this throughway, an easement over an adjacent property.

A

And then there's another one that comes off the county road here.

A

Which is brevard, so this is a google earth image here. All those entrances are existing.

A

County engineering review is fine with it. Rhodes is fine with it at state highways. Fine with it.

A

But I wanted to bring our attention to this location, because this was a point of discussion.

A

For most of our discussion last couple months ago, september's meeting.

A

Was the sidewalks in this area so again we're kind of coming off of the.

A

The structure that's being proposed: the parking is adequate, we're going to have the trash structure.

A

There, with the fence now we're looking at the side along the county public road for sidewalks, so.

A

The plans that came in last time showed sidewalks on the westernmost location of the property.

A

Connecting route 32 sidewalk to essentially the site, which would also allow for connectivity.

A

Across the street to the grocery store and the sidewalks for that development, there.

A

Which has also interconnectivity throughout the area and the other stores in this region.

A

However, what was not on the previous plan was sidewalk that continued from.

A

That point to the east: to connect to adjacent property. Now that adjacent property is this site.

A

Plan liberty station- I believe, that's actually eldersburg station. I apologize for that. Typo.

A

Eldersburg station, in fact we heard earlier today that site plan was previously approved and.

A

Has received an extension, so this is a site plan. That's already been approved the site plan. If you.

A

Were to look closely, you can see, there's sidewalks throughout the site plan, but in particular related.

A

To our discussion, there's sidewalk here: this is the old walmart site. This is the site that we're.

A

Looking at now, so the eldersburg station shows sidewalk throughout, as in particular, connecting to.

A

Our site and the previous sidewalk previous site plan did not show sidewalk in that location.

A

The new site plan does the new site plan does show sidewalk along the entire frontage of brevard.

A

um There's a note, and you know for anybody watching at home- I'm sure there's no way you can.

A

Read that so I'm going to read that here it says the sidewalk shown and noted as.

A

Future phase will be installed at such time as eldersburg station.

A

Is under construction so that's to say that the sidewalk that's noted here as that future phase.

A

Will be installed, but it will be installed at the time that the eldersburg station is built. We.

A

Discussed this at length in the last meeting that this sidewalk to the north or to the west provides.

A

Connectivity for the existing structures into the existing shopping centers and that this sidewalk.

A

Here is what we talked about earlier sidewalk, and nowhere until that eldersburg station is.

A

Constructed so in order to make sure that sidewalk is constructed and provides that connectivity, we.

A

Kind of have a middle ground there, where that, when that I mean that site is constructed in the future,.

A

This connection will be made and on that note too, before we get too far from that.

A

The way the county will ensure that we'll be by bonding the sidewalk as a whole, so.

A

In the future, when that point comes, if that construction doesn't occur, that construction can.

A

Still occur if push comes to shove there, but I think we discussed this previously and we're.

A

Once that's there, it makes sense and it will be to the benefit of everybody, to have that sidewalk.

A

So that's really the biggest change on these plans. It's a pretty simple.

A

Pretty simple site plan here I'll bring you down to the next page here with our.

A

Beautiful photographs and again this is what about that sidewalk. So here's the building.

A

Off in the distance here, I think we'll see it in the next page too, where the addition will occur.

A

This location here, I believe, is the same place. I was standing taking all of these photographs.

A

So this is looking to the eldersburg station site, so this is where the future sidewalk will be right.

A

Against the road- and this is looking to route 32, so this will look is where the current sidewalk.

A

Will end so when this is this, current site plan is constructed. The sidewalk will come to this point.

A

They'll be allowing for crossing across the street, as well as into the site itself,.

A

And here are the elevations of the proposed structure.

A

Like I said, there's already an existing structure there if you were to drive by or.

A

Possibly on the next sheet, look at it as about from here to there we have an existing building.

A

And they're just tacking on additional space here it should be pretty similar in style to.

A

The mix styles of the existing tenants here, so it should fit right in if you.

A

Just imagine this a little bit wider, we're going to be looking at that when this is all.

A

So that regard to the site plan itself for chapter 155,.

A

An action would be required for approval of the final site plan.

A

With the conditions of the public works agreement, including that bonding for the sidewalk.

A

And, of course, if any changes happen to the site plan in the future, that.

A

The plan come back for further review.

B

Thank you, um mr ziegler. Mr sullivan, do you have anything to add.

B

Questions here.

L

I assume parking. Yes, yes, as I mentioned previously, um there is a zoning administrator case that.

A

Happened a few years ago to modify the multiplier for parking requirements for the whole site.

A

So that's applicable here too, and for those requirements parking is adequate and in fact.

A

I think we have three extra parking spaces and is required. um Yes, parking is adequate.

B

Good, do we have any members of the public that have signed up for this? No, we have no members.

I

Of the public all right um and before we have a motion, I just want to thank the developer for.

N

um Accommodating this from our standpoint, I think it was a safety issue. It wasn't just.

N

Convenience issue, although it's that but more than that, it's a longer-term safety issue so.

B

While this was a minor change to the property, I know the sidewalk's expensive and we very much.

B

Appreciate your attention to that absolutely appreciate the compliments as well you're.

B

Welcome so with that I'd be happy to entertain a motion I'll move. We approve the site plan.

E

Subject to the two conditions listed on page three of three directed by kirsten dated december 14th,.

E

2021. is there a second of that motion? Second, all right, so we have a motion to approve the site plan.

B

Subject to the two conditions set forth in the staff report, any further discussion all in favor.

B

uh All right, anyone posed very good. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you very much. Everybody.

B

All right, we'll move on to item 13. case number s, 20.0026, buttercup road, llc, property.

B

So I know that david you're doing the presentation. Again I mean.

B

We're seeing you again for a different presentation.

B

And while you're getting set up, do you mind if I ask the gentleman to introduce himself.

K

Sir um doug nade owner of the buttercup property running.

K

Ceo of new york, communications and last name is nate nab.

K

Yes, sir nabd, thank you dover hankins. I work with doug, I'm the developer's representative.

C

Marty hackett clsi. Thank you. Thank you, gentlemen. All right, then, you're ready to go.

J

All right, thank you for that. um So dave, b, craft beer development review, as already.

J

Stated the last project we'll be talking about today is the buttercup road, llc property.

J

File number s-20-0026 now that you're all familiar with the engineer and developer. Essentially what.

J

This project is proposing is a warehouse on the corner of buttercup road and raincliff road.

J

This is before the planning zoning commission as a final site plan, so we.

J

Will be looking for consideration and approval, this may look very familiar.

J

It was actually before the planning zoning commission in august. So four months ago I.

J

Think we remember yeah, but just in case you don't right. um This is again in eldersburg.

J

This is right on the edge of the municipal limits of sykesville, um and it's outlined here in blue.

J

Here is buttercup road, here's raincoat float and then here's sykesville road, which is maryland 32.

J

So again, the property itself is roughly 11 three quarters acres and hosts a multi-tenant building.

J

That currently exists here, and this is being used for. I believe it's for commercial offices.

J

At the current time, the use of the existing building was previously reviewed by the county.

J

In a previous state plan that was approved back in 1982, the property lies in the i2.

J

Zoning district, which is heavy industrial and has existing access onto buttercup road right.

J

Here, as well as raincliff road, which is about right here, both of those being county maintained.

J

Roadways, the adjoining property to the north and the east of the subject. Property is owned.

J

By the state of maryland and is also zoned i2, as well as agriculture, so it has a split zone on it.

J

The southern adjoining property is zoned conservation and is currently freedom park.

J

And finally, the property to the west is zoned r 7500, which is residential, 7 500.

J

It hosts a townhouse condominium community, as you see from the aerial and lies within the municipal.

J

Limits of sykesville, so that's what this red line is here. This is the municipal limits of sykesville.

J

And so this property is literally right on the outside of that limit. All adjoining properties.

J

Are served by public water and sewer excluding the park, so the park is not on public water. The.

J

Existing multi-tenant building is located within the northeastern portion of the site, as you see on.

J

The aerial here- and there is an existing monument sign right along buttercup road, the remaining area.

J

Of the site is currently used for either product storage parking or is undeveloped and is wooded.

J

There is an existing stream on site, but there is no fema 100 year. Floodplain designation.

J

So design wise, not much, has really changed since last seen in august, uh the developer is still.

J

Proposing to add a just shy of 70 000 square foot, single-story warehouse onto the southern.

J

Portion of the property- and that's shown here, the existing building and associated parking.

J

Area will remain on site they're, so they're not going to demolish this at all. It's going.

J

To remain on site, the proposed warehouse will utilize the existing access from buttercup road.

J

And they are looking to remove the access from raincliff road. A concrete sidewalk is proposed.

J

Along buttercup road that will extend to the extent of the property boundary and will run.

J

Down uh and will transition into a 10 foot wide paved pathway along raincliff road and that will.

J

Connect to the existing sidewalk that's in front of a condominium, and they are also proposing a.

J

Crosswalk from the intersection here to freedom park, so a little bit easier access for those.

J

That are using the the sidewalk and the crawl. Excuse me, the pathway to get to the freedom park.

J

As a portion of the proposed pathway lies on the subject property, the county will receive.

J

A roughly five foot wide pedestrian easement. So that way we can continue to maintain that pathway.

J

uh The building mounted and pulled lights are proposed around the new warehouse both having a.

J

Mounting height of roughly 20 feet tall, there is a photometric plan, that's been included in your.

J

Plant set, there are no additional freestanding signs that are proposed with it, so there will.

J

Be utilizing that existing sign right up here at buttercup, so the proposed youth will have roughly.

J

50 employees and will operate 24 hours a day, seven days a week, the parking requirements for a.

J

Warehouse as outlined in the code is one for every one and a half employees on the maximum shift.

J

Or one for every 1500 square feet of floor area, whichever is greater after calculating both.

J

Of those it resulted in requiring 46 parking spaces, and I believe that was based on uh the.

J

Employees, the plan currently shows 53 parking spaces, so they're well above that threshold.

J

Along with this sub or this site plan, a a subdivision plan is also going through the.

J

Process as a minor subdivision, the developer is proposing to break off a piece of property up here.

J

That will house the existing building and existing parking for that building and then.

J

Have the rest of the area of the site be its own lot that is currently going through the process.

J

I believe they have maybe one or two review agencies left prior to recording that plaque.

J

Since this will it'll be one access for both sites, we will look for and access easement.

J

So that both lots have legal access to their respective areas.

J

So the concept site plan was initially submitted on february 16th earlier this year. The plan was.

J

Subject to citizen involvement at the march 2021 technical review committee meeting there was one.

J

Citizen in attendance, who provided an email prior to the meeting and they were inquiring.

J

About a potential sidewalk connection from the condominiums to the park with that 10 foot wide.

J

Pathway, I I believe that has been met. You know with a crosswalk as well, there was another email.

J

That was received prior to the meeting again. This was earlier this year and requested a copy of the.

J

Plans, but they themselves did not provide any comments or opposition to what was proposed.

J

On august 17 2021, the planning zoning commission was presented the concept site plan, the minutes.

J

Have been included into your packets, the commission elected to review the final site plan.

J

One of the the biggest things that was discussed at that previous meeting.

J

Was uh landscape and the screen concerns you know from the condominium from the roadways.

J

So with that I'll go to the landscape plan here, so there is landscape proposed along buttercup road.

J

Along raincliff road and then also along this portion here that abuts that condominium and there.

J

Is also you know, some trees proposed throughout the site here and also provided by the developer.

J

Engineer is this sketch as well, so it was mentioned that the lance so at the previous.

J

Meeting it was mentioned, the the landscape may not be as necessary as thought by the planning.

J

Commission due to the contours of the land, so this will aid in that argument that the contours of the.

J

Land have the headlights going towards the top of the houses here. So this is a general tractor.

J

Trailer, you can see this line for the headlights that runs through, and this is essentially where it.

J

Runs through too so these would be. These squares here would be the top of the townhouses themselves.

J

So this was provided just to kind of help. Show the commission, um I guess- to help aid and the.

J

Concerns that were brought up previously and I'll go back one slide. So this is the the elevations.

J

Of the proposed warehouse, I believe, there's been no changes to this since the previous plan.

J

Okay and so um I'll just go through these pictures of the site itself.

J

So these are just throughout the site. um You can see the existing townhouses over here.

J

And then again, existing townhouses on the edge here.

J

And these are just pictures throughout the site of how it was um again. This.

J

It went to planet commission back in august, so these pictures are fairly recent.

J

This is the existing entranceway. This is the existing building.

J

The existing sign- and this is the stream that's on site that runs towards that condominium, complex.

J

This is one of the two entrances, so this is the one at buttercup road.

J

This is the one that will remain and will be utilized with this eggplant.

J

And this is the entrance at raincliff road. This is the one that will be removed with the estate plan.

J

And these are some shots of where the proposed path and sidewalk will reside.

J

Next to the roadway here- and I believe that's the last one- it is okay, perfect.

J

So with that, uh the final plan has received approval by the carroll county health department.

J

And the bureau of utilities, with public water and sewer connections, the plan has received.

J

Final approval from water resources and flood plain management, with easements being required.

J

For both landscape and forest conservation have granted final approval with bonding been required.

J

For both of those engineering review and state highway, administration have both approved the.

J

Plan with existing access storm water management has granted final approval, stormwater management.

J

Requirements will be addressed via multiple micro buyer facilities throughout the state. So if I.

J

Go back to the site plan here, there's you know micro, buyer facilities behind the warehouse here.

J

There's some on the opposite side of the parking area here and I believe, there's.

J

Some up here as well so throughout the site, you know they're looking to collect water everywhere,.

J

And in accordance with a site development plan, memorandum from the department of planning the.

J

Proposal is consistent with the carroll county, water reserve master plan and the land use.

J

Designation is consistent with the sykesville 2030 comprehensive plan. Land use designation of general.

J

Industrial, so with that, uh pursuant to chapter 155 staff recommends approval of the state development.

J

Plan subject to the following conditions: I'm just going to read through these that the.

J

Developer enters into a public works agreement with carroll county that guarantees completion.

J

Of the improvements that a plat of subdivision be recorded simultaneously, with or prior to the.

J

Public works agreement. I will mention that the subdivision plan was included in your plan. Packets.

J

This approval does not include approval of that subdivision, but I wanted to include that in your.

J

Plan package, so you can see how everything would lay. The third condition is that a storm water.

J

Management, easement and maintenance agreement be granted to the county commissioners that a.

J

Forested water resource protection easement be granted to the county commissioners that.

J

A landscape maintenance agreement be recorded simultaneously with the public works agreement.

J

And a floodplain easement be granted to the county commissioners that a drainage utility.

J

Easement be granted to the county commissioners that a pedestrian easement be granted to the.

J

County commissioners and finally, then any changes to this plan will require an amended site plan to.

J

Be approved by the county carroll county planning. Is there any commission so with that I'd be happy.

J

To answer any questions or questions you may have as well as the gentleman next to me here.

J

Thank you, dude. Do you all have anything to add we um dave, do you mind going back to that elevation.

C

View just that was the the biggest item that we were talking about at the last meeting.

C

What's happening is we went and actually put this place this to scale, so this is a two scale version.

C

The elevations of the townhomes uh that are uh adjacent to the property they are over 400 feet.

C

Away um but their elevations are set based on true elevations, so um you can see we're about 30 feet.

C

Higher in elevation um grant in the winter time when the trees are all the leaves are.

C

Off the trees, you don't have as much screening as you do in the springtime summer and fall.

C

We'll be planting more trees to assist with that.

C

The headlights, obviously we show projection going straight out, but headlights actually go.

C

Down unless you, uh you have um high beams on that kind of thing, so the direction of the beams are.

C

Actually going to probably hit the ground before they go off-site, that's what we believe um the big.

C

Thing is: is that talking with mr nave? Very rarely is there any truck traffic during the evening? It's.

C

All done during the day they have 24-hour shifts, but that's more warehouse work. That's not delivery.

C

Work that normally occurs, I'm not saying it's never going to happen, but it's minimal. um You.

C

Can correct them wrong, but you're absolutely right. It also depends on the time if you know sometimes.

K

It gets dark at 5 30, so you might have a truck, but during the summer time when it gets dark at 8, 30.

K

You won't see any trucks at night, so we believe we demonstrated. uh You know.

C

After we looked into it some detail and feel comfortable that we don't see it being as.

C

Much of an issue as what people were believing and uh you know so as the trees mature, that we're.

C

Planting that's going to catch some of your lower growth, but obviously it takes. You know a couple.

C

Years to get that started and the screaming to happen, um because the elevation differential is.

C

30 feet now we did bring some of the the trees up closer to the parking lot, so some of that.

C

Elevation is made up just in we're planting them up up the hill versus down the hill, but.

C

We're doing in both locations, so ultimately there should be a pretty sufficient screening going on.

C

And we're here answering any questions, um mr nades, looking forward to bringing his company to carroll.

C

County- and this is a great location for them- yeah we're looking forward to having it absolutely.

B

Thank you any other questions. I think the the lighting is. Is it going to be wall mounted.

E

In the dock area, or is it going to be a pole lighting we mentioned polls earlier? Is it going.

E

To be pull pull casting towards the building, or is it going to be wall mounted it's going to be.

K

Poles and the reason, why is for safety we're going to have video surveillance? We want to make sure.

K

Nobody's walking around in there or doing anything they will be on timer. So if nobody walks by there.

K

I don't want to burn the electricity it'll shut, the light off, but if the sensor comes.

K

On that light will shine so that we can get a picture with our cameras. Okay, any other questions.

N

Do we have anybody signed up david? um Can you just minimize.

I

This and go back to that cisco. I don't believe we do, but we'll double check. There's nobody on there.

I

All right we're very good well and before we have a entertainment motion. I just wanted to thank.

B

You mae for accommodating these things and being a good neighbor you're. Next to.

B

The sidewalk, the crosswalk, all of those things that we recognize that increases expense.

B

But from a public safety standpoint and from a good neighbor standpoint, it means a lot.

B

To the community- and we really appreciate your receptiveness.

B

To that in addressing the landscaping, so thank you.

B

um With that chair be happy to entertain emotion,.

L

Oh, you go right ahead. I remove. We approve the site plan, as recommended.

E

um With the conditions listed on page three of three prepared by david b craft.

E

And uh on december 14, 2021. very good, give a motion. Is there a second I'll switch here.

N

All right we have a motion in a second to approve the site development plan. Subject.

B

To the nine conditions listed in the staff report, any further discussion all in favor, anyone opposed.

M

All right, the only item we have left is item 14, which is general public comment, and I.

I

Don't believe um matt can you just confirm one more time, there's no one on the line for general public comment either confirm yep, okay, very good, then, with that I'd be.

N

Happy to entertain emotion that we adjourn make the motion to adjourn. Second, second,.

B

All in favor all right, we will stand adjourned. Thank you. So we will see you 100.

I

Virtually on wednesday january 5th for our work session, very good, very good. Okay, thank you.

B