Carroll County, MD Carroll County Planning and Zoning Commission, 29 Jun 2022

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From YouTube: Planning & Zoning Commission of Carroll County, MD June 29, 2022

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https://www.carrollcountymd.gov/government/boards-commissions/planning-zoning-commission/

A

Good evening, welcome to the june 29th planning and zoning commission.

A

uh Work session it's about 602, I will go ahead and call the meeting to order and ask.

A

uh Laura, if you can uh help us establish a quorum.

B

Hello, mr wilders, I'm here miss kirkner mr lester here, mr huff here, mr kane here, mr smith,.

B

Mr smith, here can you hear me yeah.

C

Here, secretary eisenberg.

B

Here, mr chair, please, with the record, reflect that six members are present.

B

And we do have a quorum. Thank you. Please stand for the pledge of allegiance.

A

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and to.

A

The republic for which it stands, one nation, under god, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

A

Moving on to item four of our agenda review and approval of the agenda, do we have any changes to.

A

The agenda that was sent around to us previously: no, there are no changes to this evening's agenda.

A

I'd be happy to entertain a motion for approval of the agenda as presented to us, then.

A

All right, I'm hearing two motions I'll take one as a motion, and one is a second.

A

uh All in favor all right, okay, uh the agenda will stand approved, move on to item five, the.

A

Administrative report, madam secretary, might have nothing to report this evening. Thank you.

A

Thank you uh item six, the annual report. We have a discussion and I think uh at least.

A

On the agenda it's listed as tiffany fawcett, so I'll turn the floor over to.

A

Ms faucet and anyone else that wants to lead us through this discussion. Yes, um so again,.

D

Tiffany is here to just um get your consensus on the annual report that was uh sent to you.

D

And reported on at the last planning commission meeting, she gave a very thorough presentation.

D

And then distributed the annual report, so hopefully you've had an opportunity to look over.

D

Those documents um and tiffany is here to answer any questions that you may have with regard to the.

D

In your report itself so tip now, if you want to pull up the report and um any other information.

E

My first time here so sharing my screen is going to be a little new to me. Could I please.

B

Have thank you just got that and if I can ask if you're, not speaking, if you can please be muted.

D

Because we get a lot of feedback, so um I believe uh we have a member. Mr thank you. I appreciate it.

B

And are you currently seeing the presentation? Okay, we can see your screen of the presentation.

D

Not the report itself, oh did we want the report right now. Okay,.

D

Unless you're there's additional information, you want to pull up from the annual report. If.

D

You want to go over anything briefly. That's fine, too, just wondering if anybody had any.

B

Questions about the presentation from last year, but last week the introduction at all.

B

There were no questions about that. I can again my first time using this platform for sharing.

E

My screen and now getting out of sharing my screen is going to be complicated for me.

A

Yeah, that's fine, it's always a little nerve-wracking. um I thought your introduction.

A

Last time was was very thorough, uh particularly for an introduction, and then, of course, we've had.

A

The report, um so we could go through it, do any members of the commission have any questions.

A

As a result of having the opportunity to review the report or in light of anything, miss fawcett had presented to us previously,.

A

I think it's fascinating honestly, that's what we said before when you take a look back at.

A

Where we've been and what we've done, it's really really helpful.

A

If there are no questions, I think, madam secretary, do we need to take action or get.

A

Approval for me to execute the letter that was circulated. So, yes, you have to um yes exactly.

D

That's exactly what we need is a motion to approve the letter of consistency with the.

D

2021 annual planning report and submittal into the maryland department of planning, along with um the.

D

Five-Year mid-cycle review, which will be included as part of the appendices of the annual report.

A

All right does anyone care to make such a motion.

F

um I can make that motion that we approve the new signing away, that we uh accept the.

F

Five-Year annual report.

A

And linda it's very good and just to refine it linda. Do you mind reading what you said.

A

Before just so, we can have the uh it makes a little easier. It's a cumbersome motion. I think.

D

um So the motion would be that you move to approve the 2021 annual annual planning report and the.

D

Five year, mid-cycle review for submittal to the maryland department of planning and consistency.

D

With the master plan yep so matt, would you be interested in adopting what she just said? Yes,.

F

G

And I will second it all right, so we have the motion, as stated and articulated by the secretary.

A

Mr hoff has made the motion we have a second by mr lester. Is there any further discussion.

A

All those in favor, please signify by saying aye aye anyone opposed anyone. Abstaining.

A

Thank you, then. The uh the annual report is approved, along with the five-year appendices.

A

And ms paul said, thank you. Thank you.

A

We will move on to item seven of our agenda this evening, which is agricultural.

A

And I'm sorry strike that agriculture and conservation zoning text discussion.

D

So we are going to pick up where we left off at our last meeting. We have an hour of time.

D

Blocked for this, as well as an hour of time, blocked off for chapter 155, which you.

D

um Were given information about at the last planning commission meeting and that's.

D

Something that laura mathias and her team will be giving to you after we're done with this portion.

D

um And so with that mary, I believe, wanted to start off with the uh presentation that I gave to you.

D

A few weeks ago, on remaining portions is that correct mary just to refresh your memory, it is.

H

Excuse me: did you want to be the presenter on that linda sir I'll present this you want me to so.

D

Nope, I got it control if I can share my screen.

D

So I'll go over this fairly quickly because you've already had this presentation before.

D

But I think that the take home messages is that um we really didn't find any big big deal so to speak.

D

With ag remaining portions, yes, we have them. um Yes, they're in the county um and there's quite a.

D

Few of them, but we don't see a lot of other types of uses happening on remaining portions currently.

D

So um what is the remaining portion- and this is different than an agreement? I want to get into.

D

All the nuances, but what we're really talking about is the agricultural remaining portion.

D

um And it's used to refer to the property that has been subdivided so again when we have agland you.

D

Can subdivide so many parcels off depending on how many acres you have and it's a typical one unit.

D

Per 20 acre equation and if you include septic tiers in that pretty much all of our ag lane is.

D

Capped at seven lots, no matter, no matter what um and then once you've utilized those lot rights.

D

The portion that is undeveloped goes into what we call a remaining portion under our current code.

D

Your remaining portion, you can have a religious establishment school day care vet contractors.

D

Equipment, storage or commercial, kennel, nursing, home and other types of recreational, commercial.

D

And institutional uses, so basically what what does this mean? So these are four examples of types of.

D

Development that are seen on our existing and remaining portions, so um many of you might be.

D

Familiar with the golden crust, assisted living facility, really beautiful facility.

D

Going northbound on maryland, 97 toward westminster, the uniontown bible, church, carol, lutheran school.

D

And then the inspirations memory care are all developed on agriculture remainders. So basically.

D

Farms that had subdivided off whatever their lot rights were, and then, in addition to that,.

D

Developed these more institutional types of uses on those remaining portions.

D

So um this is found in two current sections of the code 155, which is our subdivision section and then.

D

Our actual zoning, which is our 158, so it's defined as the potential for the creation of a residential.

D

Subdivision lots based on the area of the existing zoning classification of the parcel, so this is.

D

That's that's. The definition of development rate subdivision is any track of land or parcel in two.

D

Or more lots or a parcel for immediate or future sale. Any division of land involving a new street.

D

Or involving property identified by the county as all or a part of the planned public project should.

D

Be a subdivision, so that's currently what's in our definitions um and then the remaining portion is.

D

In the ag district, the land remaining after residential lots have been created from a legally.

D

Established parcel of land through the subdivision process. So again, just what I had just spoken about.

D

So um you know, we've had a lot of discussion, you know what is the order of magnitude of remaining.

D

Portions I know there has been some concern that we may have a lot of remaining portions.

D

Not necessarily being used for agriculture in and of itself, but may have other types of uses.

D

And development with on those remaining portions, so what we have found in our research um is that.

D

Basically, 98 of remaining portions are in non-residential um use and most of that.

D

Happens to be in agriculture, so out of the 11 000 remaining portions, the number of non-residential.

D

uh Remaining portions are only 16, so that's 1.57 that are.

D

Not in a non-residential use, I think I misspoke earlier um so really we don't have very many.

D

So this is a map of our remaining portions and the non-residential remaining portions.

D

So the gray on the map- those are all the remainders that are within carroll county. The.

D

Blue dots are the ones that, through our research, we have found that are uh the non-agricultural.

D

Types of not remainders, so we have the bible, church, cara, lutheran, a golf course.

D

Preschool assisted living, several assisted livings, several schools, a church.

D

Tend to be the predominant uses on these agricultural remaining portions.

D

And they're pretty evenly spread in some ways throughout the county.

D

So we have three schools in a daycare center: five religious establishments, five assisted living.

D

Two recreational uses and those are the golf courses um and then one um not our.

D

Big airport, but a small regional little air landing strip um that are on these remainders.

D

So the issue and why we're bringing this to your attention is that there was an assumption that.

D

The property has been built, there is an assumption that the property has been built out um when.

D

One of these developments occur so basically you've taken off your residential portion.

D

And then someone are the property owner on the non. The remaining agricultural portion.

D

Builds on that and they put they put a school or an assisted living.

D

um There is no limit to the number of uses that can be placed on that remaining portion, so you.

D

Could essentially have a church, a daycare and an assisted living if you have the land.

D

And you can work it out to have the remaining portion develop. So it's not.

D

Really an agricultural remaining portion, then at that point, um but again you saw we don't.

D

Have many of these throughout the county, but this is a potential that could happen.

D

So just a few options as we move forward with our code adjustments is, we could just leave it, as is.

D

Again, as I just showed you, it really is a nothing burger so to speak. um There's only 16 of these in.

D

The county out of all of the agriculture remaining portions that we have, we haven't, seen a ton of it.

D

Doesn't mean there's not opportunity or potential for a lot more, especially as land becomes more.

D

Scarce um we could recommend prohibiting further development on agriculture remaining portions.

D

We could recommend prohibiting certain intense non-residential uses on agriculture remaining.

D

Portions I mean we can go through that list or we could recommend limiting the number of uses.

D

Allowed on a single remaining portion and some examples are, we could limit by acres to say you.

D

Only have a 10 acre remaining portion, then maybe that's just one. You get one use if you.

D

Have 30 you can get three uses, perhaps unlimit uh the different types of uses, so you could have.

D

One religious establishment in one school that sort of thing or the number of the same uses.

D

So no more than two or three a similar or the same use, for instance, like golden crust, has two.

D

Assisted living facilities on their one ag remaining portion.

D

So that was a lot and this was a refresher too from a presentation last time, but it's been.

D

Been a month or two there any questions, I'm trying to understand what we're trying.

D

To accomplish with this in particular or any concerns, do we even want to tackle it at all.

A

Just quickly housekeeping order, I just wanted the record to reflect that luke was able to join us. Welcome luke. Thank you guess what.

A

um So the the options for consideration um when you've identified the issues.

A

um The first two seem to be the opposite. I mean seem to be the most extreme. Either do.

A

Nothing or change everything right um and then somewhere in between how how big of a problem.

A

Is this I mean, is this a potential solution in search of a problem or um that's the whole thing.

D

I mean so only so out of this whole all of the grain. It might be hard to see the gray on the map.

D

Those are all the remaining portions in the county and only 16 of them have been used for something.

D

Else, that's not agricultural, so we have um 11, I'm sorry, 1017 remaining portions and out.

D

Of that only 16 are being used in this way, but the flip of that you could say is we have you.

D

Know a thousand and one properties, potentially that could have these types of uses on them. If.

D

People so choose to do that with their property and then to what extent. So I guess the potential.

D

Is there, but we haven't seen it utilized, so is it an issue? I I don't think it's an issue, but.

D

Others might I know that was something that um a commissioner had expressed some concern over.

D

Was the potential for this? So that's. Why we're bringing it to your attention? Because there was.

D

That concern expressed and again I don't see it as an issue right now, but it does have a potential.

D

um You know if someone chose to to develop their properties like that that we could have. You know.

D

A thousand and one properties now potentially with but have already used their residential rights to.

D

Now do something else on it with no limits and I go ahead michael. I wanted to ask so if.

C

The property owner wanted to do something else to it. uh They would have to go through the formal.

C

Steps and process- and you know eventually- would get back up through the the planning and zoning.

C

um Our board to hear that uh potential or that proposal, or are they exactly yes, depending on.

D

What the use is amir, I don't know, do we have a table to show that maybe you can share your screen.

D

Based on the use table I mean some uses would be allowed. Some would be conditional.

D

Planning, commission doesn't really get to say for the most part if the use is allowed or not.

D

That would be determined really through the zoning administrator or the board of zen appeals. If it's.

D

A conditional use, if it's a use allowed by right, then you'll just see the plan and the plan would.

D

Have to just be consistent um with the code, and I think one reason we wanted to talk about this.

H

Before we did, the use table is as we go use by use some of these things you might want to consider.

H

What you've just seen here, I mean we'll, go through the use table and it will show private school as.

H

Being permitted so then you'll know which ones are permitted by right and which ones are conditional.

H

Uses- and that may factor into how you feel about this issue do do we have a sense of whether there.

A

Are some constraints in place that have caused such a small number of these to be utilized.

D

No, we have no way of knowing that um that's kind of anecdotal information that we don't.

D

Collect so we don't know why they haven't been utilized for the most part. um I will say.

D

And we haven't seen it yet, but there's been a lot of discussion about the solar, so you.

D

Know we're doing the solar pilot study. The solar pilot study can happen on ag remaining portions.

D

That are within a certain acreage limitation um and then once the solar utilization has ended.

D

The property goes into agricultural preservation um and I don't want to speak for development.

D

Review but I believe there is um something coming forward now with the solar potential.

D

On one of these agri-meaning portions, that's just one piece of why the solar properties.

D

Being utilized, there's other factors involved that solar companies seek out certain properties, so not.

D

Every property would be eligible for that, but that has been one of the more recent concerns.

D

Moving forward to um with this some some people take it as a concern. Some people don't take it as.

D

Concern because some people really like the idea of community solar, they like the idea of how our.

D

Particular lawn ordinance was written with um the co-location for habit um pollinators um as well as.

D

The potential for to be an ad press, so we we actually because it's a pilot. We were not really.

D

Recommending any changes to the solar provision portion at this time for the ag remainders.

A

Well, and before I turn it over to anybody else might have a question at this point is: is the.

A

Process in front of us right now that you would want to then tonight walk through the use table of.

A

Of what's permitted, or is that for another time.

H

Well, I think tonight we wanted to go through the use table. That's the next step, we're.

H

On page 26 of that draft that we left last time which I'll be sharing the screen soon,.

H

um So as we go through the uses as you've seen these 16 that have been there, if you see a use and.

H

And that is a concern. Yeah linda, could you go back to where it lists? I think it's.

H

um Assisted living religious establishments, schools and daycare centers seem to be more.

H

The concern the airport- I don't think that or the recreational uses are of a particular.

H

Concern to most people, okay, unless there's any objection, we could maybe go ahead through the.

A

Use table: does anybody have any questions at this point before we start doing that.

G

I would ask just one question linda: so, if somebody or or or you know, mary any anybody.

G

So if I want to build a school or a church or any of these other uses.

G

What is the factor on the getting that approved? Is it is it? Is it perk? Is it? Is it.

G

Access to sewer access to water- well, water, I mean- are those- are those the limiting factors as to.

G

What I can build and how much I can build, how many units I can put on there if I'm building a nursing.

D

Can you home your microphone, please we're getting some feedback. Thank you.

D

So I think I think it's a few things. I think um it would really come down to the site plan.

D

Approval process um and if it needs a conditional use approval, I think that's what we're going to.

D

Be talking about now is if it needs conditional approval, um for instance, I'll, say um and correct.

D

Me, if I'm wrong, is it assisted living that we can determine how many beds, along with.

D

They have to come to planning commission prior to going to the board of zoning appeals even for the.

D

Number of beds for a facility for everything over eight- that's correct, yeah yeah, so that would be.

D

Something a little bit um well, that portion would be under your purview, then it would go to the.

D

Board of zoning appeals for the use, and then it would come back to you for the site plan. Approval.

A

Okay, peter that answers your question um yeah. I guess, unless any other comments right now,.

A

Mary, if you want to start walking us through the uh through the table of what's permitted.

A

What's conditional and what's prohibited and so forth, that would be enlightening. I think.

G

Mary you're muted, thank you um I'll start all over um we're, starting on page 26, as I said before, and.

H

That's the draft that you received last time and before I keep going, you can see my screen correct.

H

Yes, okay, um so this is the table of principal land uses it's again, it's principal uses. It's.

H

Not the accessory uses that we'll be getting into later, it's not temporary uses. These are.

H

Principal land uses and that's defined in the code. um These rules, you see in front of you. There are.

H

12 of them on page 26, these are the rules that we established when we first began this with.

H

The um commercial and industrial zones and they've been tinkered with a little we've gotten feedback.

H

On you know how things could be said more clearly for people to be able to interpret the table.

H

A lot of these are standard in all use tables, so I won't go through them. The only thing I.

H

Will point out is that number 12 this time is new and we've also added it to the residential and.

H

The commercial use tables which were previously adopted because it was suggested to us that some.

H

People were interpreting additional regulations to meet all additional regulations and were surprised.

H

To find out, they needed a site plan, so the additional regulations column in this use table is.

H

Really informational and it in general and maybe exclusively only includes other regulations from.

H

Chapter 158 zoning. It is not intended to tell somebody throughout the code and throughout the.

H

Government everything they need to comply with. It is other zoning regulations to be used as a.

H

Cross-Reference for ease of understanding- and we just wanted to make that clear- that it does not.

H

Include all additional regulations that apply to the use, so that's a an addition. This time around.

H

And you'll see later in the draft, we added that to the residential use table and the commercial.

H

Industrial use table as well mary one. This is jeff one quick question just in the language.

A

um So, do we mean in number 12 that the additional regulations listed in the table below may not.

A

Include all additional regs that apply to the use, such as the requirement for a site plan, is that.

A

Is the site plan review an example of something that may not be included below.

H

Yes, so would such as be better language, for that is that what you're suggesting.

A

For me, it would be a little bit clearer. I know we're saying just that to me. It just makes it a.

A

Little clearer that this is an example of that you know such as this. I don't know how anybody.

B

Else feels no that's an easy change to make, and I mean that's the purpose of of doing this is.

H

To make this clearer, so thank you. We will make that change um and I think that's the one. That's.

H

Caused some of the confusion when people um go to the zoning office and- and they are surprised to.

H

Find out, they would also need a site plan because it's not listed so that was the purpose of that.

H

um Before I start just a couple things I just wanted to, let you know the process that we went.

H

Through there's, I guess this is one of our shorter use tables. Certainly the commercial industrial.

H

Was much longer but the process we went through this time was exactly what we.

H

Went through last time, we took the advice of the work group when, when there was an issue.

H

But really our interagency team went through and we looked at all the existing uses. They're.

H

Listed separately in the code, so we just reformatted them into this. This format um we.

H

Looked at other worlds or jurisdictions. In this case we looked at best practices. We looked at.

H

Things that had caused problems in the past that now was a good opportunity to fix. We looked at.

H

I mean really, it was just a back and forth with all the members of the committee and we didn't.

H

End up making a lot of changes there weren't a lot of changes to be made in this section. There's.

H

We'll get later on into specific regulations where we made some changes. But as far as things being.

H

Either permitted prohibited or conditional, we didn't make a lot of changes so I'll go through it.

H

And I will note where a change has been made and I'll also note: if we've made a change, we did look.

H

Into if we would be creating any non-conforming uses in making that change, so I will let you.

H

Know if we've done that um and then I know, we've been talking about agriculture and conservation.

H

Together but as you go through this keep in mind that they are very different districts.

H

And that's why you'll see some significant differences in how we treat them, because.

H

The purposes of each are quite different, even though you know most of the county. Has these.

H

Two zoning districts and they are rural areas, but they have different purposes so um you'll.

H

See as we go through, there's a lot of things that aren't the same about the two districts.

H

So um if there's no questions I'll just start with agriculture, as with all zones in carroll.

H

County zoning districts- this is permitted by right. um There's a small change to make to.

H

The additional regulations, um nurseries and greenhouses are not subject to 158.040, so.

H

I'm going to cross that out. This is really just reflecting. What's in the current code,.

H

Then you'll see the next um on the top of page 27. The next group of agricultural related uses.

H

And, as you can see, all of these are either conditional or permitted in the agricultural.

H

District, but a lot of them are prohibited in conservation. um Several of them are conditional.

H

The one thing I will note is we have this new use that we talked about last time, agritourism and.

H

This encompasses some uses that used to be considered agriculture and we've made.

H

This or we're recommending that this be a conditional use in the conservation zone.

H

So I'm not sure if this will impact. If there's anybody using that doing something under the.

H

Broad definition of agriculture that now falls into agri-tourism. It would be a conditional.

H

Use so that is something that's possibly less restrictive and something to consider.

H

um I also want to go back to the question last time about guest farms. We've looked into taking.

H

Guest farms, out of the definition of agri-tourism and mr huff had a concern about that. Wouldn't.

H

Allow certain things that are traditionally done on the farm and we have been assured.

H

That that would not be included in a guest farm in frederick county. A guest farm is defined as.

H

Basically, a bnb or or a camping area, so we are going to treat that differently. So I just wanted.

H

To point that out, we did look that up and taking the word guest farm out of the definition will not.

H

Negatively impact those, so one quick question just to remind me: I should know the answer to this, but.

A

I can't remember for sure, if it's conditional does the applicant, then first have to go to the bza.

A

Board and and have make their case as to why they should be given conditional or be given approval.

A

When it's a conditional use, that's correct, okay and then from a macro picture conditional. I know.

A

We've talked about this in other contexts, but when it's conditional it tends to.

A

Create exceptions I guess or unevenness in terms of um the uses of the property uh or properties.

A

Across the county, um you know if it's permitted, we know it's either it's permitted or it's not.

A

It's not permitted it's not. These conditionals are sort of in the middle and some sometimes.

A

They're there and sometimes they're not. I know I'm not being very clear, but I just.

A

Remember in the past that conditional makes things a little bit less predictable. Perhaps.

H

Does make them less predictable? There is a presumption that a conditional use.

H

Should be permitted- and I wish jim was here because he could give the legal definition of it.

H

But yes, you're right! um If it says p, then everybody should know that that is something.

H

That is permitted by right in that district. Okay, thank you. um So does anybody have any questions or.

H

um Comments about this section on agricultural again, the only real.

H

Change was adding agritourism and making it conditional in the conservation district.

H

Okay, um the next category is communications and there's no changes here. Communications tower and.

H

Communications tower complex, which is just meaning more than one tower, um and this is as written in.

H

The current code and these sections that you see in that column are further regulations on that.

H

I'm just going to move through in case or unless somebody interrupts me so I'll just keep moving.

H

um All vehicle sales and service is prohibited and all eating and drinking establishments are.

H

Prohibited those are not spelled out as they are in the commercial because they are all prohibited.

H

So that's the general category and that's why it's showing the x there under retail.

H

And service butcher shop conditional um in the ag and prohibited in conservation, as is garden.

H

Supply center, as is liquid or dry fertilizer sales, and all other retail and sales, are.

H

I'm sorry, retail and service are prohibited. The one thing that has been brought to our attention.

H

Is for butcher shop if the butcher shop includes um meat processing and not just the sale of meat.

H

Then the comment has been made: should it be included in the distance requirements in 158.040.

H

Because currently there wouldn't be any distance requirements on the meat processing, so I don't.

H

Know, if that's something you wanted to consider to add to that section, um adding a distance.

H

Requirement to butcher shop if there's meat processing um one one thing. If I could on that.

I

The big concern is um the difference between a slaughterhouse and a butcher shop.

I

Both locations, um slaughter animals on site.

I

So, are they basically the same use, or are we really going to look at them as two uses.

A

What what has been the practice, what has been the practice jay? um Well generally, we've always looked.

I

At a slaughterhouse as a a large, it doesn't have to be large, but an operation just where.

I

Animals are killed and processed. Remember it's a meat packing plant where you bring.

I

Cows in you slaughter them right there on site and then process them for food.

I

Butcher shops, we look at more as nothing like uh bulldogs out on route 32. Yes, they do slaughter.

I

Animals there on site, they do process the meat and it's then retail sales on the same premise.

I

The difference one is for your larger, um generally larger facilities that are just soldering. It.

I

Processing the meat and packaging it and then selling it wholesale to other companies, whereas.

I

A butcher shop is more slaughtering, processing and selling retail directly there on the site.

H

So we do have a definition for butcher shop in the code that we added, I believe, with commercial and.

H

Industrial and it's a shop in which meat, poultry and or fish are processed and sold to the general.

H

Public we do not um define slaughterhouse jay. Do you think it would be helpful to add a definition.

H

For that, because that is later in the use table just to be clear here, it might not be.

I

A bad idea: um there are a lot of butcher shops and actually a lot of small ones, counting.

I

There are, you know there could very easily be. You know, a slaughter house.

I

Just for slaughtering and processing the meat packaging it so would it hurt. It never hurts.

I

To have a definition, defining something it makes things easier. I don't have any large.

A

The uh and the question mary that you had raised about was it bulk requirements or.

A

Setbacks and that sort of thing yes, but if it's a slaughterhouse, that's on the next page, we'll go.

H

Over that slaughterhouse does have the separation requirements. So if we define slaughterhouse so.

H

It's clear which category you fall under. We may not need them for the butcher shop.

H

So I'm going to take that and they're necessary because generally a slaughterhouse is a bigger.

A

Operation, so you want want setbacks. You want separation. Is that the idea behind it.

H

That's what's been suggested to us, yes, but a butcher shop, which is also the retail sale.

H

I

One of the things you know at slaughterhouses- I mean you, don't want a purdue chicken factory.

I

Coming in where, basically, they take the chickens and they fill them in the package and then send.

I

Them out to wholesalers, you then sell them to retailers. That's a fairly large operation.

I

That also more or less are there for the retail sales.

A

And I note that it's conditional is it? Does the bca have authority when they're deciding.

A

On whether to allow the conditional use to also build in setback or separation requirements,.

A

As part of that, yes, they can, the bza can set conditions and they can increase distances.

I

uh You know hours of operations and stuff of that nature, so they do have that authority to do that.

A

So I guess the question really for us is: do we want to set certain minimums otherwise.

A

If we don't, then we're really leaving it to the bca to take into account the circumstances.

A

That are presented each time and again back to is it better to just let them take that.

A

Into account, given the circumstances, if we set some minimums, the minimums.

A

Might not might not work well with that particular um set of circumstances. I don't.

A

Know if, if there have been, I guess the question is: have there been problems with separations and.

A

Situations where maybe not enough separation has occurred according to certain people.

I

There hasn't been any real problems that I know of it.

I

It's just something that once again can be an issue.

I

You know the difference between a slaughter house and a.

I

A

Matt, do you have any thoughts on any of this? This is your. This is your wheelhouse. um I think as time.

F

Goes on we're gonna have more butcher shops um in the county as more. It's harder to get stuff done.

F

um And you know with our amish community moving in it's a possibility we may have more so.

F

That would that would be my thought. I would think you know, being a conditional use kind.

F

Of puts some guardrails around it a little bit that gets looked at farther. um I don't think the.

F

Setbacks are a bad idea, because if you don't like the setbacks, you can always ask for uh you know.

F

For variances yeah so.

F

I don't think set x are going to be a problem so.

A

Would it make sense, I guess matt to and jay really from your perspective too.

A

If we were to set some, you proposed some minimum setbacks for a slaughterhouse.

C

Excuse me, the um does have an 800-foot setback, so slaughterhouses taken care of okay.

H

It's the butcher, shot right. I think it's, the butcher shop that doesn't have any.

I

Type of extra setback or anything right, but there's those watering animals there.

I

Right, a lot of the butcher shops we have processed have been smaller operations. um One.

I

Some farms, a couple of farmers also slaughtered deer and other animals for people in their farm.

I

And stuff of that nature, that's generally handled under a butcher shop because of the lower volume.

I

So and generally, if it's on a farm, you've already got a good separation anyway, but there's always.

I

That chance that and like I said the bga can look at that and and put conditions upon it. If.

I

They feel so yeah and I'm sorry to belabor this, but this would be one of those things we don't.

A

If we don't set something and then later something comes to us and it's obvious.

A

We really wish there was some separation and we're going to look at the code and say well.

A

Now we don't have any real basis to impose uh that separation, because the code doesn't.

A

Require it so this really is our chance to look out across the horizon and say: do we want.

A

Some minimum separation when it comes to a butcher shop matt's point, I think, is that.

A

We may see, may see a trend that has more of these in our community and if we do would do we want to.

A

Set some minimum setback requirements. um That's number one and number two. I guess mary. I have a.

A

Question if there are minimum setback requirements, does the bca have the authority to vary those.

A

Given so yes, they get those requests all the time. Yes, okay, so the standard separation requirement.

H

For a lot of uses is 200 feet, you'll, possibly remember. We went back through those last time.

H

And then for every more intense use, there's a number of uses that are 400 a number that.

H

Are 600 a number that are 800 in a couple like an airport and a rubble? Phil are a thousand. I believe.

H

um So 200 would be the minimum if you were just making it refer to um 158.040. It would have a 200.

H

um And that would probably be an appropriate length of a setback. Keep it away from. You know.

I

Residential houses that are nearby um a slaughterhouse, yeah 800 feet. That's a.

I

That's a large commercial operation basically, and you want that away from the residences.

I

But like say, a lot of bush butcher shops are on farms or small businesses out there. That.

I

Aren't that large, so if anything, I would suggest maybe a 200 foot maximum setback for that.

A

So it sounds like maybe that the idea I would put forward is uh have a 200 minimum setback. 200 foot.

A

Minimum setback for a butcher shop have a separate definition for slaughterhouse. We don't have that.

A

Right now, so that we don't get into a question of, is it a butcher shop or a slaughterhouse.

A

And the slaughterhouse already has its setbacks.

A

um Would does anybody disagree with with that.

G

I agree with that: okay, good again, sorry to take so much time on this particular one, um but I I.

A

Think I think we have a consensus on that um mary and jay okay, great, thank you. Thank you.

H

So I'm going to move along to funeral um cemeteries, crematoriums funeral establishments.

H

Let's see, cemeteries are conditional uses crematorium.

H

Prohibited and funeral establishments also prohibited and we made no changes to funeral.

H

Establishments, we did I'm sorry the crematorium used to be conditional in the ag, so that is the.

H

One change we haven't identified any that have approved conditional uses in the ag district.

F

um I have one question on that as a guy that has a creamium crematorium for my cows and um you know.

F

We do have to dispose of them, and I know it's also a problem with our local butcher shops now, because.

F

Valley, proteins, no longer picks up a lot of stuff from them unless it's fat or grease.

F

And I know I haven't had direct talks, but I've had people talking to me about it.

F

uh The possibility of putting in crematoriums, for you know, slaughter animals and stuff like that.

F

And where does that fall because it's not really conditional use for bag? But it could be.

F

You know if, like you know, you wouldn't want your.

F

Local butcher shop to have one right there at his purpose. I don't think.

F

So it might be, I don't know where it would fall into in there yeah the crematorium.

H

Is defined as only being for deceased persons, so jay. If somebody came to you.

H

With that question, what would you consider them, or deceased animals, jay, you're, muted,.

J

And mary, I would just interject, I would think if it's for a farm purpose or an agricultural purpose,.

J

Then it could be an accessory use. That's what I'm thinking that that's something that's incidental.

I

And secondary to the agricultural use and there's other ways I know of this disposing of cattle. You.

I

Can you can bury them on a farm if I remember correctly decompose them that way, you know and.

F

As a farmer, I don't agree with that just for the record, but anyway you can do that. Yes,.

I

So, like I say, incidental and secondary to the agricultural use that that would be.

I

A more appropriate thing for that in the ag yeah, I'm thinking of like secondary use, because you'd.

F

Be bringing something in if it was coming from a slaughterhouse or something like that.

I

That would be an issue, possibly um you know if you're trucking in a lot of.

I

You know carcasses from other other facilities that that definitely could be an issue, because.

I

Then they're basically running a a business as a crematorium and there are businesses in the.

I

County that are crematoriums strictly for animals yeah for small and south carolina industrial park.

I

um So that would be at that point, a business use and yeah that that would be an issue.

A

So how do we get some predictability around that I mean if farmers want to know whether they can.

A

If they want to get the question answered under the circumstances, matt was talking about.

A

um If it's a, I don't really understand if it's an accessory use or a secondary use,.

A

How how do they go about getting that question answered? What's what's the process in a nutshell,.

J

Mr chairman, we could add a pretty specific definition of it being an accessory use.

H

In the code um to provide those guard rails, um it just doesn't have to be. Oh, it's secondary and.

J

Incidental, we can say crematorium in the list of enumerated accessory uses and have a more.

J

Specific definition giving that guard rails to kind of um prevent the issue that jay brought.

J

Up or that commissioner hoff brought up with just people, you know trucking in animals every day and.

J

uh Running into that type of problem, but making it more specific to uh to to the individual property.

A

And if it's an accessory use and it meets the definition that we're going to create.

A

Then then, they're entitled to to to utilize it in that way, they don't need special permission from.

A

Us or the bca that's cool. There are some accessory uses that um require zoning administrator approval.

J

So we could add that extra step, um but normally it's an accessory uses, an accessory.

J

Use and is uh permitted without um zoning administrator approval or uh dja approval.

F

Yeah, I was thinking definitely for like okay, you have the butcher shop on the farm which animals.

F

Are coming to the butcher shop, can you have a crematorium for your waste products and going out.

F

And under what guidelines would they be? uh I know I don't know for sure does blocks have a.

I

Crematory in one site, or do they no like, like, like I said, valley, proteins just in the last two months.

F

Has stopped taking, I think, hides and some parts of the carcass I don't know what parts I have.

F

Been in direct contact, but I know they stopped taking them and I know uh mount airy.

F

uh Wagner's is really concerned in trying to figure out how to dispose of them. Now.

F

So they're talking with some commercial uh composting sites and stuff about taking them.

F

So I know it's a real problem: I'm not yeah. I've talked to someone it's not in carroll.

F

County but in another county, that's kind of working through that, seeing what's legal.

F

And can they do it? Would it be possible from a process standpoint for this to.

A

Get a little more study and then um because there might be some other.

A

Incidental issues around these things that maybe we could we could take a look at this see if it.

A

Makes sense as an incident as an accessory use and if we can get a good definition and then I think.

A

Then the folks in the community are going to have a better idea of what they can do and can't do.

A

And how it impacts? You know, neighboring properties, if at all you know.

A

It would that would be possible. Would it be possible to have this one sort of.

A

Pulled out and and maybe a little bit more study and then have it come back to us. Yes, we we can.

H

Do that and like we can look at what other nearby counties might do um yeah? Yes, we can definitely do.

F

This, like I said it's a new problem that just happened for everyone, so I would definitely say.

F

We should probably should be talking to our local butchers. You know bulldogs mount airy.

F

And and see where they're at and what they're running into so yeah good all right good! Well, that.

A

If you we'd appreciate that, if you could pull that one out, get a little more study, talk to.

A

The folks like matt, was talking about and get a better sense of, what's involved and how it might.

A

Impact neighboring uh property owners as well, and then we can bring this back to us. Okay, thank you.

H

Okay, the next category is lodging and it's bed and breakfast with which are currently and.

H

Would remain conditional use in agricultural and conservation districts you'll, see that and we'll.

H

Go over it later, they are subject to 158 163, which is towards the end of this legislation, and that's.

H

A number of um extra requirements that would be on that um all other lodging would not be permitted.

H

Hotels, motels mary, do we need to move down on the table? That's on the screen. Oh I'm, sorry. Thank you.

H

Sorry, um the next category is office in healthcare veterinary facilities permitted in the ag.

H

Again, with some specific require of some distance requirements and conditional in the.

H

Conservation district- that is no change but all other office health care are prohibited.

H

um Again, stop me if you have any questions. The next category is recreation and entertainment.

H

um So the first thing that comes up is commercial camping area, and this is one that we've discussed.

H

I think briefly, when we talked about definitions, there are a number of requirements in place.

H

That we'll get to later for commercial camping areas, but this is kind of a hot topic right now.

H

um How these should be allowed, and one of the problems was this- was what the guest farms look.

H

Like they would be falling under, and we would like these to be remain conditional uses with a number.

H

Of requirements, um whereas if they were considered part of agritourism, they would be permitted by.

H

Right um there are no other real changes to this. We've consolidated categories, as we did with.

H

The other use tables for indoor recreational facilities which in this case are prohibited.

H

And outdoor, which are conditional, those are both defined and they include a number of uses um and.

H

There's a few things that are pulled out like the outdoor trap, skeet rifle and archery.

H

Again, those are conditional and commercial stables are permitted. No changes, no changes. There.

H

Oh, I take it back. One thing golf course golf course is we're proposing it be conditional in.

H

The conservation it is currently permitted by right- and there is one in the county.

H

That falls into that category. That would become technically a non-conforming use.

H

Because it wouldn't have a conditional use, just something I wanted to bring.

H

To your attention that that would negatively impact one existing golf course in the county.

A

And why do you want to make it conditional.

H

um Is if chris hein was here, um there are a number of regulations, but but even with those regulations.

H

I don't want to speak for him, but he felt strongly that that's a use that you don't want to see on.

H

Conservation, land and kind of in that vein to um jeff one of the things that we were looking.

D

At when it came to conservation, and the youth table in particular was what uses seemed very.

D

Pervisive for conservation land if the intent is for conservation moving forward to be our.

D

More restrictive, environmentally sensitive zoning district than looking at uses that.

D

Aren't necessarily compatible with that was one of the premises of this, and we didn't want to.

D

Outright prohibit golf courses but um felt that making a condition was that compromise.

D

Since we only have the one- and that was kind of the premise behind a lot of why you'll see more.

D

Restrictions in conservation versus agriculture, so, even though it's a lower density threshold.

D

Looking at from the conservation standpoint that these are more sensitive lands in the county and.

D

What really makes sense to be out there yeah and I might I might have misunderstood. I was.

A

Thinking that it had been permitted in ag and had gone to conservation, but that's not the.

A

Case so is it a unpermitted use or a conditional use in golf course too? That's what this looks like.

H

It would it in conservation, it was permitted by wright and we're proposing it be a conditional use.

H

It has always been conditional in ag and would remain conditional. Okay, okay, I had that backwards.

A

Too, okay, thank you. I might have said it backwards. Sorry, no I'm sure you didn't. Okay! Thank you.

H

um The other change was commercial, stables were actually not permitted in the conservation.

H

Specifically, so and part of the problem with these two not being consistent, is the two zoning.

H

Districts were written at different times, so different uses were called different things, so.

H

Sometimes there wasn't the fact that they, they were different, wasn't conscious. They.

H

Weren't evaluated at the same time, but I think we we agreed that commercial stables would be.

H

Appropriate to be permitted in both districts.

H

Okay, under residential um most residential dwelling types of principal uses again later on.

H

We'll get to accessory dwellings but for principal uses: uh multi-family retirement homes, retirement.

H

Which is multi-family um retirement, villages and townhouses are all prohibited.

H

And they would remain prohibited, single-family dwellings are permitted and two family dwellings.

H

Are currently permitted in the ag but prohibited in the conservation, and we made no changes.

H

To that um regarding group living for assisted living, less than eight is permitted um and jay.

H

Can explain it in detail, but that's more of a state law thing for assisted living with more.

H

Than eight residents it's a conditional use and nursing home as well and as linda said previously,.

H

That's one of those uses that the applicant would come to you for the density, basically before they.

H

Went to the bza for the conditional use, and that is not a change. There are no changes to that.

H

um There's a few changes under institutional daycare center private school and religious.

H

Are all currently permitted and again this if you did want to talk about the remainders.

H

Issue the remaining portion issued this may be the time um and in the conservation.

H

Day care, centers schools and private and nursery schools were permitted.

H

Were proposing that they be conditional in the conservation kind of going back to what.

H

Linda explained about the golf course looking at the purpose of the conservation district.

H

And religious establishment was always conditional, so it's making those more consistent, and that was.

H

Part of it is looking at those as similar uses, and that would need the extra scrutiny in the.

H

Conservation district, you marry and, and I'm going to go back to you know just asking.

G

You know in terms of making this more predictable and us not coming across.

G

As being or even putting the bza in in a situation where they're coming across as being arbitrary,.

G

I'm kind of when I looked at this. There was a stretch here from assisted living facility down.

G

To religious establishment and I'm all for freedom of religion, but I'm wondering why we're allowing.

G

You know a private school or religious establishment in a conservation area when those.

G

Uses and the amount of the the septic field might be extremely large. I can't you know, depending.

G

On the size of the facility, why would we allow that in a conservation area when we're trying to.

G

uh You know, consider feasible and desirable to conserve open spaces, water supply sources, woodland.

G

Areas, wildlife and other natural resources- I mean you know when you read that I'm wondering.

G

Why we're allowing that and why? It's not just not allowed in in in this through this section.

G

There were like there's six in a row there that I kind of put a question mark as to why we were.

G

Doing this, and almost like you know: why, wouldn't we just let them go ahead and build a townhome.

D

So a couple things with that: pete um the assisted living less than eight, because you're going from.

D

Starting from those six, that's permitted, that is a state law that we're following.

D

For that, so that's why we kept that as permitted um and with with the rest, especially going to.

D

The religious establishment- and this is something even for jim- to weigh in on.

D

We would have to make all of those uses prohibited, essentially, especially the more institutional uses.

D

Prohibited if we're going to prohibit a church, because you can't treat churches any differently.

D

Than other similar uses, that's that's supreme court tested federal federal laws.

J

Is the religious institutions and something act, um but um yes, you just you can't discriminate against.

J

Religion and uh the supreme court has weighed in on it, and um I can get the board members.

J

There's a similar case in um that came out of baltimore county about baltimore county added.

J

Sort of restrictions for a religious establishment in the conservation district.

J

And the court struck down those regulations under the federal verluca statute: okay,.

J

I just don't have that case off the top of my head yeah, you mean in the end jim. I don't think that.

G

This isn't the quiz I mean: don't rely every everything's, fine, uh relax. um I I'm just again.

G

And I'm worrying or wondering about densities, and you know conservation's, you know if we're.

G

Serious about agriculture, we're serious preservation and we're serious about conservation.

G

Which I think we are in some instances, you know, why would we allow you know these intensive uses.

G

um And again I don't want to be discriminatory. I I you know, I I you know, I I bring up things like.

G

All the time that seem to put me in that camp and I'll just apologize, I mean again, you know when.

G

When I was five years old, some folks burned across in my front yard, so I I have no patience with that.

G

Kind of stuff- I really don't um no, I was only five, it wasn't anything I was doing, but my mom and dad.

G

Were doing it so please please know I'm not trying to be discriminatory here. I'm trying to you know.

G

Be true to what we're saying here in terms of what we're doing in even having a conservation district.

H

Well, I think one of the things you have to look at too in considering this a few things.

H

You have to look at the map of carroll county and how much of it is ag and conservation and.

H

If you aren't going to allow the uses, the schools, the religious establishments, the nursing homes.

H

It's just a huge part of the county that isn't going to be served as being able to have those. I.

H

Mean the towns can only handle so much, and I wish I had the map here to pull up, because I I think.

H

That that makes somewhat of the case the other thing about those uses is, there are already a.

H

Number of them, so you would be creating a pretty big number of. I can get that number for you too,.

H

um Non-Conforming uses because we have always allowed it, um so there are a lot and like for.

H

Religious establishments, if you're in the northern part of the county, that's where.

H

Your religious establishment would be so you wouldn't have any other land to put it on.

G

Yeah again, I'm not talking about not allowing it on ag. I'm talking about conservation, okay, I'm.

H

Sorry I thought you were talking about both together. No I'm I'm I'm I'm fine.

G

Leaving it exactly heavy as you have it on ag, I'm I'm talking about conservation and and.

G

How many of these can we take some ambiguity away by taking away conditional uses by.

G

Not permitting it at all by just having an x in that column under conservation, we have six.

G

There in a row that I just kind of put a question mark next to because from the intensity standpoint.

G

And the amount of runoff and those kinds of things that are going to be happening may be impacting.

G

Water uh and everything else that we're trying to conserve you know, would we not prefer to have.

G

An x in that column, in four out of the six five out of the six, that's what I was asking sorry.

A

If we just mary, if we just looked at to pete's point, if we just looked at conservation.

A

um The issue that you had raised about serving the community and not having places for assisted.

A

Living in churches and schools is that less of an issue when we're if we were just looking at.

A

Conservation, it would certainly be less of an issue because there's not nearly as much.

H

Conservation, I'm looking at over my desk at the map right now. It would, it would be much.

H

Less of an issue, I don't know who it would impact off the top of my head, like who's.

H

Already got one that would become non-conforming, which we talked about the difficulty in being a.

H

Non-Conforming use, but yes, it would be much less impact than the ag. That's for sure. Well, I wonder.

A

If again, we can pull these categories out, it looks like the ones that he's talking about pete, correct.

A

Me if I'm wrong under group living, I think we got the answer on the assisted living less than.

A

Eight that one is stable. It has to be the way it is, but the next five after that, if we were.

A

To put an x in the conservation column, um which I think is what you're talking about right, pete.

G

Actually, yeah I mean and having heard what everything's saying, I'm thinking assisted.

G

Living facility, greater than eight nursing home day care center and private school, and maybe I I.

G

I you you can talk me into leaving any of these in here guys I mean I I'm just I'm just when I.

G

Was looking through the list? This I just kind of you know, thought huh you know we we don't have.

G

A retirement home, we don't have retirement village, but we're allowing a nursing home.

G

You know how arbitrary is that on us and so that that's just why I'm asking the question: that's all.

G

uh And I don't mean kick in the mud, thank you, jeff yeah, sure, no and so taking your point. You.

A

Know if we're going to be sort of true to the the idea behind conservation which is to conserve it.

A

And for what linda was saying, you know have a have a bit of a higher standard for uses uh in the.

A

Conservation zone- um maybe mary, we could have you, take a look to see how many non-conforming uses.

A

Would would we create if those five, those five categories had an x in them in the conservation.

A

Zone um and also to your point earlier, I'm sorry to your point earlier about. Would we be creating a.

A

Hardship or an inconvenience for our community if some of these areas, you know don't have churches.

A

Nearby or you know those sorts of things I mean, obviously we want to look at the whole picture. I.

A

Think we'd be interested in sort of taking a broad look at it. um If we were to put the x there.

A

From both of those creating non-conforming uses and are we creating a hardship or an inconvenience.

A

That we don't intend, certainly by taking that approach, um that would be my way of kind of taking.

A

A maybe a deeper dive on this particular set of categories that said uh line up with your thinking.

G

Absolutely, and I appreciate I appreciate you slowing down to take a look at it yeah. Thank you.

A

Anybody on the commission opposed to that. No, I think it's um definitely. I don't want.

K

To just say you can't do it, we need to look a little bit closer at it and assisted livings.

K

um You know there are limits, even in agricultural, how big you can go with building it's not like.

K

You can build what is being built up at the hospital. It's definitely smaller. So.

K

I think, um and and day cares too, so I think it's worth investigating color excellent. All.

A

Right good, thank you. Thanks for raising that pete um all right, I think we can move on okay,.

K

Honestly, mary, it's 7 10., do we want to uh stop here for this section to give.

D

um Development review their opportunity yeah linda. Thank you. I think that makes sense. I mean.

A

We don't want to rush anybody and we want to make sure we're being thoughtful about all of this.

A

So unless there's some objection, I think um we'll hit the pause button on this and um and then move.

A

On to item eight of um our agenda, any objection to that for many members of the commission.

A

All right, good mary, thank you um linda, thank you sure so before mary goes really quickly, mary, um if.

D

You wouldn't pop back on for a second, so in order to finish up, then we have we'll pick up with.

D

These uh group, starting with group living in the.

D

Conservation and then we have to move through that um all the way.

D

Through page 29 for the use table we have about what, like.

D

Seven or eight more pages left to get through of the actual text. Mary.

H

um More than pages, let me just say we have to get through the rest of the use table.

H

Then we have to get through all the accessory uses, which are on page 30 31.

H

32 and 33 bulk requirements and then the last five or six pages.

H

No more than that um are the specific use requirements, so we still do have quite a bit.

H

To get through, but I will say this is the kind of conversation we wanted to have um certainly to get.

H

You in absolutely so just so, you all know we have our first meeting scheduled with the commissioners.

D

For a work session on august 4th, I don't believe we're going to get through everything on the 21st.

D

Of july, um to move this forward so, but anyways wanted to kind of give you all the lay of the land.

D

Moving forward um so we'll be programming a lot of time at our next meeting to hopefully get through.

D

Most of this and try to wrap up as best we can um with this information. So I just.

D

Wanted to kind of go over that really quickly with you all. um So that's all I had thank you.

D

And our next meeting is july: 19th right, yeah, justin, twitter, yes crap, the 19th. I apologize.

A

No, that sounds good. Thank you. um So we'll go on to.

A

uh Item eight, which is chapter 155, proposed amendments, uh a discussion.

L

Thank you good evening. Can everybody hear me all right.

A

Yes, yes, excellent. I had some uh some issues at the beginning with connectivity, but I think I'm.

L

Good now so, um oh it actually does say that chapter 155 proposed amendments discussion.

L

I like that, I was going to say I like that: a lot jeff thanks all right so.

L

I am going to do a screen share here and go straight to perfect all right. So.

L

While I was away on vacation for last meeting, my wonderful staff stepped in it's my understanding.

L

That chris hein did a nice introduction for you all about the text uh proposed amendments.

L

To chapter 155, and then david b, craft and kirsten, gave you an overview, a powerpoint presentation on.

L

What we are doing, the the objectives right, what we're doing and why we're doing.

L

Right so you've had that, hopefully, at this point in time, it's also my understanding.

L

That you received a link to our website, which has all of these wonderful um they've done a.

L

Great job, so if you go to land and resource management, you'll see these links for the.

L

Environmental code changes and then the 155 changes. If you click on chapter 155, it then.

L

Has I gotta move my screen? There we go um it then it has an update summary, which is.

L

Was is very nicely compiled um and then a clean version of our text and then a.

L

Track changes, version of our text so and the process so far so we'll also have links here to.

L

We have the board of county commissioners a link to that, so you can hear the discussion. Well, there.

L

Really wasn't too much discussion, it was just an overview um to be uh presenting them exactly.

L

The same powerpoint that you saw and saying we need to go talk to the planning commission, okay,.

L

And they said, of course okay. So but the code required us to do that and then we have the.

L

June 21st that'll be a live link, so everybody can view that meeting and then today's meeting will.

L

Be added with a live link to that, so people have those discussion items um all right. So let me see.

L

Perfect, okay, so what I want to do, I'm going to actually use that first document, the update.

L

Summary and go through big picture, so we did the overall presentation with the objectives.

L

And I'm just going to keep like getting a little bit like I'm going to do the next like level.

L

Of that picture, um and then, whenever you feel a need to really dig into certain texts, if you do it.

L

All we can go into that and have those discussions, that's exactly what this is, for. We also have time.

L

Scheduled with you next month on the 19th, if we need to come back and have further discussion and.

L

Then, of course, the process this will go eventually before back before the board of commissioners. For.

L

Their adoption, um I think that the most important things to note are, of course, as I said, kirsten.

L

Went through the objectives, we want to take a look at and retire our development review manual.

L

Created in 2004 and actually integrated into the code, there is very little of this. I think she said.

L

This last time about six pages, give or take that are actually not available on the website anywhere.

L

Else can't be found, so we are going to retire that manual absorb things into chapter 155.

L

We also want to reconfigure 155 to streamline the layout when we started to look at it.

L

A lot of it if you were unfamiliar with our code coming into it for the very first time it was.

L

Not very just well laid out in terms of okay. I want to do a subdivision. What can I do.

L

How do I do it, so we really looked at making that table of contents very clear you go there. You.

L

Know exactly what you want to do you go to that section of the code um and then just revising for.

L

Clarity and predictability so crosstalk like any cross references from the zoning code, etc.

L

Everything was same matchy-matchy so, but I think what's most important is we are not changing.

L

The processes right there is nothing in here that changes how we operate, and there is nothing that.

L

Changes, the planning and zoning commission's authorities. Okay, so I think that's key. While we.

L

Did move things around? We did a shuffle if you will there's nothing that changes the process.

L

That we already have in place and there's nothing that changes the authorities that you already have.

L

So, for instance, minor subdivisions, those the chair of the planning and zoning commission has.

L

The authority to approve those and that will still be happening- that's just an example. Okay, all right.

L

So with that I'll, just kind of dive in.

L

The key items that were added to 155 hold on one second, I'm gonna.

L

Keep trying to move my little boxes around the screen, so you all are.

L

Not covering my text, okay, there we go so the key items that were added.

L

We added definitions from that manual that I just said we're retiring. There were definitions.

L

In there that were not in our code for and- and there are also there were definitions in.

L

The for example, development. We do not have a definition for development, yet the chapter.

L

Title for chapter 155 is development and subdivision of land. Well, obviously,.

L

Development should be by the definition, so we added definitions. Now we did take like.

L

Resource management codes had definitions of development, so we looked at that and we said.

L

Is that that's applicable across the board, so we pulled that over included it in our code.

L

um You spoke about, you were talking a lot about remaining portions earlier, so remaining portions.

L

Is integral to our code as to subdivision in the agricultural zoning district? We did not.

L

Have a definition for remaining portion, it was in the zoning code which made no sense to us so.

L

We pulled a remaining portion from the zoning code and it's in our code. It still appears in the.

L

Zoning code, but it's in our code as well, so any language that it was being used in chapter 155. We.

L

Made sure that there was a definition in there and definitions that appeared previously, that didn't.

L

Appear at all in chapter 155, I we're like there's no reason for that. So very simple. On definitions.

L

We brought in what's used in that chapter. We took out what wasn't used uh all right, so.

L

I'm going to go through and highlight what was added what was removed, and then I want to show.

L

You how that looks in terms of the layout of the chapter, which I think is key here, so I'm going to.

L

Jump to a couple things that we added so on use in common driveways, which is part of our code.

L

We have and have always had a maximum number of users, and you can relate this to if they.

L

If someone wants to do more users, then what is permitted in the code they'll come before you.

L

And request that modification, so maximum number has always been there. We in conversation with.

L

Fire and emergency services- we did add in a house number requirement. So here this is d house number.

L

Signage may be required along the uic driveway, as directed by the department of public safety.

L

This was simply there. There are situations in the county, as you can imagine where are used in common.

L

All of a sudden like it'll, go this way. It'll go this way and and emergency services is.

L

Not quite sure where they're heading so they said- let's add this in. If we can.

L

And leave it up to their discretion. If there's a branch or you know if it's it unclear, let's put.

L

A requirement to add house number signage and that again, that will file under their review.

L

The part of the review process, so that's a new addition in our code. That was not there before.

L

Access easements on using common driveways again this was here so it's h, access easements! So.

L

This has always been something that has been done. This is where you have multiple infie strips you.

L

Have a use in common driveway and then there's always been provided via the plot they're, showing.

L

An access event, but it was never actually written into the code that you should provide.

L

That well, in order for those property owners to actually legally utilize that use in common.

L

Driveway you do need that access season, so we just included that now in the code again.

L

So access easement shall be provided for all lots using the driveway. The easements are be to.

L

Be depicted on the plot and recorded by deed again it was already happening, but it wasn't in the code.

L

So that again was conversation with um that was us and in conversation with firing, emergency services.

L

L

Maximum length, this came from the manual the maximum length for use in common driveways.

L

Again, it was already it was in the manual we were, including it in our reviews, but.

L

It wasn't codified, so we're pulling it over because we're retiring. The manual.

L

um So let me jump to page 38.

L

So page 38 talks about um simplified site plans. This the only place that simplified site plans.

L

Were outlined was in the manual, so we did pull this over into the code um and there's nothing.

L

Different here in terms of what the manual is saying and how we review those and what the.

L

Criteria are to run a simplified site plan. It just is being brought over into the code.

L

Okay, you won't see the simplified site plans. They are strictly.

L

um Similar to off conveyances, they don't come before the planning commission.

L

So nothing changes on your end. Nothing changes on our end.

L

It's just that it's here included in the text um page 37.

L

I'm trying to scroll slowly, so no one gets dizzy.

L

So we did number four here.

L

This is a proposed addition to the code that was not happening before so in our subdivision.

L

Plans, you will be familiar with this from a subdivision aspect, because this is written.

L

In the code for subdivisions that your frontage, your road frontage, there is a dedication required.

L

um So I'm trying to think of an example but you'll see written into the conditions, parcel a will be.

L

Of x, acres will be dedicated to carroll county and that happens routinely with subdivisions. Okay,.

L

The exclusion to that is the in ag the remaining portions they're, not dedicating all that.

L

Frontage at the remaining portion: it's just the lots. Okay. So what we did was we translated this.

L

To site plans, it is not currently a requirement with a site plan to dedicate road frontage and.

L

A site plan may or may not actually even have red footage. You may have a lot that has access.

L

Over an existing shared driveway et cetera that you're putting a mobile tower back there or.

L

A using common driveway scenario- I can think of a few, so.

L

The site plan right now, as I said it, doesn't have this requirement. It may or may not have actual.

L

Frontage onto a publicly maintained road, but we are looking for here. If you do, let's go ahead and.

L

Do that dedication as well, and that dedication comes to carroll county commissioners and it's.

L

Used for any potential road, binding, etc, we excluded just like remaining portions, are excluded.

L

This shall not apply within the agricultural zoning district, so we're not looking.

L

At that frontage in agricultural zoning, okay, it's just anywhere else where you're doing.

L

A site development and you have that road frontage, we're looking for that dedication.

L

All right any questions on that before I move to what we have removed.

L

Okay, so those are the key editions.

L

The things that were removed from the code.

L

Maybe y'all find this interesting, so um at some point in time I really I'm not sure when.

L

This was okay, it's 2019., so at some point in time, prior to my being with the county, we had.

L

A pre-application review of esd environmental site delineation so before you even submitted.

L

A plan you had to submit a plan which showed all the environmental features on the property.

L

That is not something that is actually integral.

L

It's not it's integral to the process right now it doesn't free, it doesn't come before the process.

L

But anything that's required by all of our environmental codes. It's integrated into.

L

The plan set, so we don't do this pre-review pre-application at this point in time, because.

L

All of that information is being included in the site development plan in the subdivision plan.

L

That is presented to us for distribution to those 24 plus or minus agencies, for review.

L

So anything that we were getting with esd is now it's already included in the plan process. So as.

L

That's not being utilized anymore. We struck that entire section. We again it's it's already included.

L

And then the last thing, oh, I don't have the page on it, I'm sorry. um The last thing we did.

L

Was we looked at the the parking space requirements so prior to our current code.

L

Has parking space requirements in chapter 155 and I'm going to scroll all the way.

L

Back up to the table of contents, so that's the best place to look at this.

C

L

L

Probably not okay hold on. Let me see if I can, how do I switch my screen sharing okay, anyways.

L

I'll talk you through it and then I'll do my other screen share. I'm not very good at switching screen.

L

Shares sorry, so parking space requirements are in 155.. The minimum number of spaces.

L

That's required directly relates to the use so there's an entire table in our code.

L

I didn't do that it stopped screen sharing, but I did not do that.

L

All right, someone is just saying: laura, just switch it up right now. Okay, I'm doing it. Okay,.

L

Okay, so everybody can see this, I hope um so. The current code is on the left and.

L

The table contents for both and then the proposed is on the right. So we had.

L

The sections of the code related to parking space requirements, as I was saying, there was a table for.

L

Uses and the minimum number of spaces per that use was outlined in chapter 155. after discussion with.

L

Jay voight, linda mary, chris hein. I think that's all the people that were in on that conversation.

L

We talked about that, and we said there are most um most other codes outside of carroll county are, are.

L

Placing this in the zoning code because there is a direct relation to use so, as you can imagine, we.

L

Get a plan in if it's a little unclear as to what the use is zoning is the office that is saying.

L

That is having that conversation, that is determining the use. Okay. So as the parking.

L

Space requirements directly relate to use. It made sense to all of us to shift that over to the.

L

Zoning code now the parking design standards, what you're? Putting on the plan and the fact that you.

L

You know what the dimensions are for your aisle, your drive vials and your parking stalls that.

L

Remains within chapter 155, because that is how you're going to go about. You have your site plan.

L

Requirements: here's how you're going to go about your parking design standards and here's your.

L

Process for getting your site plan approved, so we did keep the design standards in chapter 155.

L

A

um Yes, if somebody's looking at this code, 155.

A

And they're hoping to find the minimum number of spaces. Is there something that's going.

A

To direct them to the zoning code so that they can find their way over there. That's a.

L

Really great question: we don't have anything written in right now that directs one there.

A

Well, maybe just we don't have to deal with it tonight, but just some thought.

H

Because we're trying to make this as user friendly to the public as possible,.

A

um And so it just seems to me if we've moved that somewhere else, if there's some way, we can.

A

You know put a section in you know a lot of times when statutes or other codes are updated. There'll.

A

Be something that says you know moved to and then send the reader on to that section or that code.

L

I'm taking note of that. Yes, no! That is a good idea and maybe I we can all work together and.

L

Work with mary who's looked at other codes to see, if there's a good way to do that.

L

I'm guessing she has some great ideas, so thank you. That is a good good thought. I like it.

A

Yeah, let us know what you think about it: how to do it thanks, awesome, okay, so so this is.

L

The last thing I want to show you was our table of contents and how we've really gone about.

L

Doing that that shuffle, if you will to make everything very clear in terms of what you can do,.

L

And how you do it in terms of development and subdivision of land right, so the first section.

L

You can see, stays the same and then we've added in a development of land section which covers.

L

Anything that is relates to either subdivision or site plan right. It relates to both. So your.

L

General requirements, legal requirements, if you have um off-site easements that are necessitated.

L

That that you have to that's a full blanket subdivision site plan, it doesn't matter what.

L

Your process is, you need to put that in place. If you have a public works agreement, that's required.

L

Right, it's going to to doesn't matter if your subdivision or site plan, so these are general.

L

Requirements that go along with the development of land in carroll, county.

L

Additionally, fees, the plan review fees that is relative to both uh subdivision site plan.

L

Either or so that's in the development of land, it's a new section that was added okay,.

L

And then we've taken and divided up into subdivision and site plan. Previously we did.

L

Not have that we had a concept plan, section and concept plan related to both subdivision and site.

L

Plan well, we've taken those that everything in that concept plan and anything that was pertinent.

L

To subdivision we put it into subdivision and then anything that was pertinent to site plan we put in.

L

A site plan, so there may be some redundancies if you're reading subdivision and you turn around.

L

And read site plan you might see it twice, but it's absolutely relevant to the person who is.

L

Looking to do a subdivision or another person who is then going in and looking to do, a site plan so.

L

We really clearly wanted to say: okay subdivision here is: what you can do here is how you do it.

L

This includes, of course, um special yeah subdivision in the ag district is unique. It has.

L

Its own section, it was in the previous code it's over here and before it was in particular areas.

L

Well, it's subdivisions, so we put it in subdivision, so we just move things to the logical place. Okay,.

L

We still have our cluster subdivisions, rural design, standards off conveyances.

L

um And using common driveway standards falls in here as well. It goes along with subdivision.

L

Then we have this new section site plan, so it just talks about if you're developing an existing.

L

Property so site plan requirements again those parking design standards and then the process.

L

How do you go through processing a plan if it's a site plan um and then at the bottom we had it.

L

Used to be called particular areas, we thought that was not only hard to say, but it was particular so.

L

We looked at other code sections and found that zoning uses the language specific areas, so we.

L

Mimicked we utilized that same language in the zoning code and changed the name.

L

To specific areas which these are, which you we see every now and then, but not as frequently.

L

Mineral resource recovery area planned unit developments planned commercial centers. Are there.

L

And lots that have uh that are in act, preservation and mobile home parks are all in there.

L

So that's how we tried to achieve all of our objectives, which.

L

In addition, I think that kirsten talked about I'm going to stop share, stop sharing.

L

Kirsten also talked about the technical memorandum which will go onto our website, so.

L

These are in our manual, we have what are called plates. I would call them like design.

L

Specs, where it shows a drawing, and it calls out exactly the details of like a using cabin.

L

Driveway section or apron section right so there as they relate to using common driveways. Those are.

L

In the manual so we're pulling them and putting them online onto the website, which will make them.

L

Highly accessible, it's a place where engineers can go and actually pull that off of there and.

L

Put them plunk them right into their drawings, if you will right so that also allows for the.

L

Flexibility, if those need to be updated just like a form or a checklist, it's on the website. We just.

L

Update it without having to go through the whole code to get to the manual to get it modified.

L

And then other than that everything else in the manual actually already appears on websites.

L

There's there's actually sections of the code which have the wrong. You know chapter reference.

L

At this point in time, because the manual is from 2004, um there's checklists, there's forms they're.

L

All included in the manual as well, but it's all information that you can already find on the web.

L

And today's day and age, the more stuff that we can have accessible to people on the website.

L

The better off everybody is for easy access to that information.

L

So that's again, I'm taking this from big picture down to like medium picture and if.

L

You want to go into the nitty-gritties of this. I am happy to get your like.

L

Section by section you know definition by definition again, hopefully, you've had a.

L

Chance to look at it at this point in time and if you have any questions, you're asking.

L

Me I just realized, I'm back on camera and I'm using my hands a whole lot. They're like.

L

Sorry so uh laura uh so number one. Thank you for uh this. The the presentation last time as.

A

An introduction gave us sort of a framework, um and then your presentation tonight, I think, is.

A

Really good, um I would be surprised if any member of the commission wants you to go into detail of.

A

Each of the sections I see some vehement shaking of heads, anybody who says yes is going to put on.

A

I'll be put on a special probation, um not kidding, but the um I don't think, that's really the issue. I.

A

Mean here we're talking about we're, not talking about changing anything, um the substance of the.

A

Process and our authority, as you said earlier, is all staying the same. We're just trying to make.

A

It clearer for people that are trying to navigate their way through our resources and the fact that.

A

It was in an outdated manual part of it's on the website, but it's not accurate. Some of it's.

A

In the code, but nowhere is it all, and nowhere is it. Accurate, is a problem that you're trying.

A

To fix is my understanding of all of this, um so I I'm very satisfied with all this. I think.

A

The one question is really just a very practical question, which is um for folks that deal with this.

A

And navigate through this information, we're not those people we're on the back end, you.

A

Know we get stuff presented to us, but we didn't navigate through to try to put stuff together.

A

But the engineers and the lawyers and others that you see day in and day out, I don't mean any sort.

A

Of formal process, but is, would it be useful to get you know some of their input to say, look. Here's.

A

The changes that we're talking about because they may have a a comment that says you know, there's.

A

Some practical reason why this ought to be over here instead of there or something um I would.

A

Just suggest, if there's an opportunity to do that again, not some big notice for period or anything.

A

Else, but just practically speaking, you know clark shafer's in the office and you say: here's what.

A

We're looking at or marty hackett is in the office not to pick on them, but there are many others, but.

A

Just just to say what do you think about this? Does this work absolutely so what we did and.

L

Will be added to the you know the website we did as a bullet point in may we presented at our.

L

Surveyors meeting so we have a quarterly meeting with all those people that you just mentioned.

L

um Engineers there are uh representatives from the municipalities that come. There are attorneys that.

L

Come everybody's invited um the the attendance fluctuates based on who's available, but that we.

L

Have that quarterly, so we presented that in may to them and then, following our meeting with you um in.

L

Just the other week in june, we sent out an email to everybody on the distribution list and there's.

L

Like something there's at least 60 people, I think there's more like 80, it's a lot. It's a huge list.

L

So we distributed an email that said that this is the link to the website. Here's an email address.

L

Here's a phone number, if you have comments, suggestions, etc. We would appreciate that.

L

So we we are looking for that feedback and we're trying to get the word out as much as possible.

L

Here it is on the website. Please give us your feedback. I think that perhaps the hardest part.

L

I thought this is where you're going with us, but the hardest part just like when you change.

L

The like chat, we used to be a chapter 71 right, so you change not only the title chapter but.

L

Because we're moving things around it's going to take my learning, because it's going to be.

L

Like four to six months to figure out like where did that go right right? No, that's true! Any time.

A

But I think it's worth the effort, certainly it's more intuitive. Now um it is so we'll just have to.

L

Have that cheat sheet before and after yeah? No, I think that's great so anyway, those are.

A

My comments: does anybody else on the commission have any uh any thoughts or comments around this.

A

um I had I had one more thing just worth noting it was in my notes, but I skipped over it because.

L

It actually might be of interest to you all personally, so you on occasion there is a section.

L

Of the code that allows for um a modification to like a houston common driveway, so we've seen some.

L

Plans come in where they say well, it's supposed to be 12 feet wide. I have an existing driveway. It's.

L

10 feet wide and they give you all the reasons you know to request that that stay at 10 feet right.

L

So we've actually adjusted the percentages that were in the code that were called out for that.

L

So that very common aspect of going from 10 to 12 that you see so often that can fall within.

L

An administrative modification, so you won't have to you- won't- have to see those anymore. That and.

L

Unless the director determines they need to see it, absolutely I'm not going to prove it, but it will.

L

Fall within the discretion of an administrative modification, so is it set up in such a way that if.

A

You all administratively reject their request. They have a right to bring it to us to make their case.

L

Yes, absolutely yeah good, all right um anything else. Lara.

L

No sorry that was mine, any other questions. Any questions or comments for uh miss mathias tonight.

A

Very good: well, we applaud the work, really really good, really important, and I think it.

A

Makes it better for our community uh certainly to find their way through this stuff, which can.

A

Be very technical and very confusing, so it should be less less confusing. Now it's just as technical.

A

But a little less confusing so from what I'm hearing we'll we're going to leave this open.

L

On the website for that comment period, but I'm hearing that you don't need to come back before.

L

Us and go through this line by line once you have that, like public comment period,.

L

Then you can go back to the board. Is that what I'm cleaning? In other words, it'll, go through a.

A

Public comment: you'll come back to us and say we haven't received any additional comments or.

A

We have we've made changes or we haven't, we can button it up then, and then we can make.

A

A recommendation to send it off to the board of county commissioners uh with our um recommendation.

A

So right, so it would be like a five-minute agenda item versus another yeah yeah. I think that's fine.

A

Does anybody object to that? Okay? No. I think I think that's exactly right laura! Thank you.

L

Wonderful, thank you so much. Thank you have a great evening um we'll move on to item nine, which.

A

Is general public comment? Do we have anybody um signed up to give us any general public comments.

A

This evening, no there are no uh members of the public with us this evening. All right. Thank you.

A

Then we'll move on to item 10, which is adjournment. uh You have to entertain a motion that we adjourn.

F

I make the motion that we adjourn. I hear a motion.

A

I see a second by mr lester all right. Thank you, then, uh all in favor all right, all right. We stand.

A

Adjourned. Thank you. Thanks to everybody tonight, good meeting really appreciate it.

A