Carroll County, MD Carroll County Planning and Zoning Commission, 18 Apr 2023

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From YouTube: Carroll County Planning and Zoning Commission April 18 , 2023

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https://www.carrollcountymd.gov/government/boards-commissions/planning-zoning-commission/

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The planning and zoning commission meeting to order it is.

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Already april 18th 2023 hard to believe, welcome it's nice to see everybody here.

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We'd like to start by establishing a quorum, please.

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Secretary eisenberg here chair, please let the record reflect that seven members are.

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Present and we do have, thank you. Please stand for the pledge of allegiance.

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I pledge allegiance.

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To the republic for which it stands, one nation, under god, indivisible with liberty and justice.

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Next up we have review and approval of the agenda. Are there any changes.

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To the agenda that's been provided to us: yeah no changes all right, then the.

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Chair would be happy to entertain a motion for approval of the agenda as presented.

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I mean I move. We approve the agenda. A second all right. All in favor, aye sounds unanimous to me.

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Okay item five of our recently approved agenda is review and approval of minutes.

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From march 21st and march 29th, are there any suggested, edits or changes to those minutes.

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A move we approve the minutes for both march 21st and 29th. Second, all right motion in a second all.

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In favor sounds unanimous, thank you. We'll move on to item six commission member reports. I just.

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Wanted to say that today's my last meeting I've been sitting here for on this deus for 10 years.

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And my term expires and uh for anybody who is interested in the community we're just.

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Community members we serve, we volunteer our time. We go through a lot of training. It takes a big.

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Commitment we get to work with the county and I have to say coming out on the other end of this.

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10-Year experience, I've learned so much about our community about the people in the county.

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And how hard they work for our community? I get to see community members like you all, come each.

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Each time we're here and I get to hear comments from the community, I'm better informed for.

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This I get to work with the professionals, the lawyers, the developers, the engineers.

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All of which have interesting perspectives and have all taught me things, and then my colleagues.

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Here and the commissioners have all taught me things and I like to think that we approach.

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This, with a with an open mind, we don't have political agenda, we listen and we debate, we sort.

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Of relish, when we don't agree on things- and we disagree, I think very civilly and professionally.

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And I think the community is better for it, so it's been that's a long way of saying.

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It's been a real privilege, I've learned a tremendous amount, I've grown from it.

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um And as I've said to anybody who will listen, if somebody gives you an opportunity to have a.

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Even a small voice in a community you care about. Why would you say no to that, so um I said yes and.

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I'm glad that I did so. Thank you all for putting up with me for 10 years and thank you for all.

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That you've, given me, absolutely appreciate it, um commissioner, not a report per se, but obviously.

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We do appreciate your 10 years of service, so I do have a proclamation for you, jeffrey, a wilder's in.

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Recognition of exemplary public service on the carroll county planning and zoning commission.

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Whereas jeffrey a wathers represents the citizens of carroll county on the planning and zoning.

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Commission from may 2013 until april 2013 and whereas jeffrey a wilder's faithfully executed.

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His planning and zoning commission duties with objectivity, dedication and professionalism and.

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Whereas jeffrey, why there's willing willingly gave of his time and resources and service of.

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The community on matters of local significance before the planning and zoning commission now.

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And therefore, the board of county commissioners acknowledges and distinguished service of jeffrey.

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A wilders to the citizens of carroll county. We, the underside, hereby extend our admiration.

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Gratitude and sincere best wishes adopted this 18th day of april 2023.. Thank you very much.

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Thank you. It's a wonderful surprise. Thank you very, very much any other commission members have any.

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Yes, I am going to miss you terribly, oh, my crying and controlling, and you have not given in so.

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But seriously I've learned a lot from you and I hope um I can feel a little bit of your shoes.

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Thank you. It's very nice of you, I'm going to echo a lot of the sentiments and I'll simply.

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Say, yeah no attorneys get a bad rap and um there was a an email sent out a while back by the bar.

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Association that cajoled the attorneys to stop telling jokes about attorneys because they were.

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Degrading their own profession, jeff you've been a terrific mentor to this entire group. We're going.

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To admit, there's some great matter up here that I respect all of you guys are great, but we're.

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Going to be deluded without you, your attention to detail and words, which is your profession, is.

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Going to be sorely missed, so thank you. Thank you for everything. Oh thank you. Thank you very much.

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I've learned a lot and truly respect your leadership on this. uh This board. This commission.

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um Your insight, your your smarts, your um balance and uh you will be sorely missed. Thank you. I would.

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Also like to echo that, but you know I I'm like third fourth, and always personal america, peter.

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Came on about the same time I did and so we're losing almost half of our tenure on this board.

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Janice has been here almost as long, I believe, right, eight years, oh five, five years, I'm still.

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Here I really appreciated justin great, knowing you and I'm sure I'll see you around. I certainly.

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Hope so thank you, yeah, and I would like to say the same thing as I've only been on the board.

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For a year now, but just uh learn to you know just just learned a tremendous amount from you and.

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You definitely are going to be thoroughly missed. Oh thank you. Thank you. Thanks to all of you for.

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Being so patient while we uh go through this, but I really do appreciate it. It's been a it's been.

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An honor to serve. Thank you. Well with that we'll move on to other business we have, which is the.

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Administrative report, madam secretary, well, thank you for so for the last 10 years we have been.

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The plans together, the carroll county plan and the freedom plan, um and you were excellent in working.

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With through those processes and you've done an amazing job leading this planning commission, I.

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Appreciate all of your efforts, guidance, mentoring and we're going to be sad to have you gone. It's.

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Been really great and it's going to be hard to fill your shoes. But thank you again for everything.

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um So with that uh we have a fairly, even though it's only two item agenda, I anticipate a long.

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Meeting we do kind of have a hard stop. Today the commissioners will be using this room for.

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The continuation of their budget discussions, so I believe we need to be out of here. Hopefully.

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By noon so just no pressure, but just letting you know that they'll need to convert the room.

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Over and that's what this will be used for this afternoon and why we only put two items on the.

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Agenda for this morning um and with that I'm going to move right along then to extensions.

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um Laramatize has one extension to inform you about this morning.

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Because we're keeping everything short I'll just come halfway today, good lauren.

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Entire spirit of development review, we do have one extension, it is p02053 fern.

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Hill, this was a subdivision, creating 16 new lots and it is the 12th extension on this.

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um It is in commissioner district two and to note they are currently working through the final plan.

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Stages on this, so they just couldn't meet that that date that expiration date, so they extended.

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Very good, thank you. Thank you laura um and then also we have a few bza cases and with that drew.

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Gray from our department of just give you a brief update on board of designing appeals.

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Thank you, miss eisenberg, mr chair and commission members. Just there's three board of zoning appeals.

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Cases which would cases would fall under your purview. The first case is case number 6442.

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Which is walter t, [, __, ] jr under commissioner district? Eight, the requested conditional use.

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Is for a contra contractor's equipment and storage yard, the requested variance is for.

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The requirement of the use to be great and to be greater than one acre in size and planning.

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Staff finds that this is not inconsistent with the 2014 carroll county master plan, as amended.

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In 2019., the second case is case number 644, jennifer grubbs in commissioner district number.

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Two, the requested, the requested expansion of a non-conforming use is to replace the existing.

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Single-Family dwelling trailer on the property planning staff finds that this request for an.

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Expansion of non-conforming use is consistent with the 2014 carroll county master plan and the.

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And the last case falling under your purview, it's case number 6445, which is route 309 llc.

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And commissioner district district number three and the requested conditional use is for propane.

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Propane storage tanks not to exceed 2 000 gallons when the property and the requested variance, is.

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For the requirement of 900 feet to 875 feet um for from the dwelling on the adjacent property.

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And planning staff finds that this request, for a condition, conditional use and variance, is.

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um Consistent with the 2014 master plan, thank you. If you have any questions, I'm here.

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Hi, I think we do. Thank you very much for your presentation. Thank you, mr chair.

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Well, that concludes my administrative report for this morning. Thank you. Thank you. We'll move on.

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To item eight, which is administrative rules and procedures, discussion, yes,.

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So before you should have a copy of amended administrative rules and procedures, we typically.

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Do this in november, as you recall, in a prior meeting, we brought this to you about adding an.

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Additional section for specifically pertaining to virtual meetings. So on page two, we added a.

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New section under 3.2 virtual meetings, planning commission members to be considered president.

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Meetings of the planning and zoning commission held virtually must have their camera turned on.

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And reply to the clerk of the planning and zoning commission and establishing a quorum unless a bona.

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Fide technical issue prevents them from doing so, and this just adds clarity. We know it's common.

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Sense but I think just to clarify what would be considered being present at a meeting so that way.

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When decisions are made, we can make sure number one that we have a quorum and we can accurately.

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Record number two: the voting of a particular member so having them visually on camera lets.

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Us know that they're there and not recusing the themselves from a particular matter. So with that.

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We would need a motion to amend the administrative rules and to add this particular section. We talked.

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About this before, are there any additional comments? I I have an odd question to ask.

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So a lot of times when we do that it's six o'clock at night and I have logged on I'm there, I'm.

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Listening but I will turn off my camera, so I can choke down my dinner and you know in five minutes.

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um And I you know, that's not a pretty pretty sight for anyone to watch. um Is this going to.

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Preclude me from doing that, I'm going to need to keep my camera on the whole time or can I can I.

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Pivot, my camera, so I I'm just just this is just a point of you know I I'm not gonna die. Obviously my.

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My volume is not hurting here, um jim. What do you? What do you do? I need to to eat before or after or.

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Just you know what well I don't want to give you a legal opinion on when or when not you should eat.

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um I would just say that, for the purposes of this is just to make sure uh that the commission is as.

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Transparent as possible, right that we're above reproach that people see just like they see you.

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Guys up here um that you're actively listening and engaged in discussions of an agenda item and.

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When it comes time to vote that year actually present to vote on it, so when there's big items.

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To be discussed um like the discussion items or a vote, your camera should be on and you should be in.

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The frame you know during the uh I don't know the administrative matters it it's always good to have.

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Your camera on, but if you had it off, while you were eating your dinner, that would uh that would.

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Be fine, I just wanted to know. What's expected, uh that's that's all because I I can change whatever.

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It is I'm doing, and I think, we've all kind of done that from time to time yeah, I think living.

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Out of covid, you know, we've all come to realize number one this to me. This uh change in the rules.

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Is good but, like all rules of procedure typically read into them, is some reasonableness, and so I do.

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Think, from a public meetings standpoint the public being able to see that we were present when role.

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Was called and a quorum was established and what was the discussion, but certainly if you have to.

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You know turn your camera off to step away for a couple of minutes and and come back. I don't my.

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Sense is that certainly doesn't violate the right. It's just like if you left the diocese right now,.

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For whatever reason right got it, okay, thank you. I just wanted to have a point of clarification.

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Apologize for slowing things down, let's roll, let's do this any other questions are coming, if not be.

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Happy to entertain a motion for approval, make a motion that we approved the administrative rules.

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And procedures changed reflecting virtual meetings a second all right. We have a motion in a second.

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Any further discussion sounds like none. Can we just do a voice vote? Yes, okay, all in favor.

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Aye opposed or abstaining okay sounds, like the motion carries great. Thank you so much. Thank you.

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Next is item nine manchester annexation, number 41, patapsco, 91, llc.

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Is weber's leading us in this discussion.

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Morning, everybody good morning.

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um With us today we have the town of manchester town administrator, alex periconi. We also have.

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Kelly schaefer who's representing the property owner, patapsco91 llc.

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Thank you hannah, and this is shane mcquay. The property owner good morning welcome.

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um So this will probably look familiar to you. It was first introduced at your march.

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29Th evening meeting today, we are here for a discussion and recommendation on.

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The zoning waiver and comment letter to the board of county commissioners.

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So this annexation is in the manchester area, it is owned and being petitioned by patapsco 91 llc.

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It is approximately 13.92 acres with access to jammer drive, as well as washington way.

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We are in the southern part of the manchester municipal growth area and their corporate.

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Limits if you'll remember from our previous meeting, we discussed that this property is a.

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Part of an existing enclave, but annexing this property would shrink the existing enclave.

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So this also means that we are adjoining the corporate limits of manchester.

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Here is an aerial view of the annexation area. Again it is 13.92 acres. It is.

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Slightly improved with some dwellings, but there is nobody residing on the property.

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The current zoning of the annexation area is our 40 000, residential and conservation in the county.

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The petitioners have requested to go into the r 10 000 and conservation zoning districts in the town.

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Of manchester, because the um r10000 and our 40 000 districts are substantially different. These there.

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Is a zoning waiver required and I'll just go back and say that the conservation piece is intended.

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To be left the same, and just the r40 piece is going to be rezoned to r 10 000 in the town.

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The designated land use for the annexation area is medium density.

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Residential, this is taken from the 2018 manchester comprehensive plan.

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This area is currently in the no service area area for water and sewer, but as we.

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Discussed in our previous meeting, this area is going to be brought into the priority.

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Service area during the triennial update and that's currently underway.

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So the department of planning is just recommending that the town of manchester give public notice by.

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Posting the property prior to the date of the public hearing and notifying all the.

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Adjoining property owners, we have not received any other agency comments from county agencies.

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And we are looking for a favorable or unfavorable recommendation from.

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The planning commission on the comment letter and zoning waiver to the county commissioners.

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And we are set to meet with the board on april 20th, this thursday and april 27th next thursday.

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Is there any questions.

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I don't think I have any. I appreciate your presentation last time. Any other members have any questions.

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In full disclosure, I do live very close to this piece of land and people that I.

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Know from this area they don't seem too happy about it, um just because the neighborhood is.

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It's it's very packed now, um there's all a lot of traffic on the road, especially susan ann, so.

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There's a lot of concern about adding more cars, more pedestrians. Well, not pedestrians.

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um Okay but like I said, I mean a lot of the people that have have come to me.

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Just don't see the need to add 14 more homes back behind here, because it's it's always been that way.

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And there is concern too, with what it is going to do to people's property values, whether or not.

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It'll go up go down, but there's also concern with people and are they going to see any increases to.

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Water sewer all that, because the plan is to extend water and sewer down onto this property. So whether.

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Or not, that's true, I'm just bringing up concerns of people who have come to me, like I said in full.

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Disclosure- I do live very close to this, this part of the land right there, so um these are just all.

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Things as we continue, I I do know that you will probably receive some kickback from the existing.

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Community moving forward on this to add more homes into aid, already very saturated neighborhood.

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Ms miller, thank you, mr chair and mr smith. I appreciate those comments. I'm sure we may see.

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Some of those citizens at the public hearing for the town, but I did just want to briefly.

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Clarify that this request is purely the annexation request, yeah, and I understand that I'm just kind.

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Of giving you what- and I think often the two it's difficult to separate the two, but this will be.

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Required to go through a site and or subdivision plan process through the town through planning.

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Commission meetings and all of that to ultimately develop with any lots. The town has been clear and.

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It's in hannah's staff report as well that the town has seen a concept plan for this property.

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With the requested zoning that shows 14 lots and that would be a maximum that the town would.

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Allow on this property, despite otherwise being allowed more than that, if you just do the math.

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Of you know r10 on with the acreage, so that's been a conversation. That's occurred at planning.

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Commission and at marion council for the town and then ultimately we're looking forward to a may 9th.

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I believe public hearing at the mayor and council for the town of manchester as well, but we're also.

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Here to answer any other specific questions that anybody has. In addition, thank you town of.

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Manchester have anything they'd like to add yes, mr chair, thank you. I apologize. I was incorrect at the.

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March 29th meeting the date for the public hearing at town hall is may 9th at zero at 7. 30 p.m. In the.

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Evening I apologize for having the wrong date was to correct the record. As for mr smith, the water.

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Sewer there's always a public works agreement between a town of the town and the developer to.

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Install the appropriate items that do not affect the individual taxpayer if they are concerned.

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About water and sewer rates at the last council meeting that was all introduced, and I asked you.

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To have them reach out to the town or come to the council meeting to discuss their concerns over.

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That those rates will not are not at all in any way changed or altered by this development. Yeah.

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And, like I said, I'm not saying there will or won't be, but I'm just bringing up concerns of people.

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That you know when you go for a walk, hey you know, so I also encourage them to come to the plan and.

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Zoning commission meetings- there is one tonight, and uh so they would have a lot more information.

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About future development in the town yep, so that's the best way to get ahead of it all. Thank you.

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So the the I get this is just the annexation piece, so the the future meetings conversations will when.

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I was reading through this I was like, where are the ratios for the police department, that.

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We typically see and all that kind of stuff that'll be part of that next process and the.

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Schools and all that kind of yeah that'll be part of the site plan process with adequate facilities.

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Right and just to clarify that it would be within the town. Yes, you will not see this again. Okay,.

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Any other questions are coming. Are there any members of the public that.

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Would like to comment on this particular matter.

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Seeing none is there anything else that any of you would like to add before we put this up for a vote.

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No, we appreciate your consideration and your time here today, mr weathers, thank you for your service.

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On this commission, it's been a pleasure to appear in front of you over the years of my career here.

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um And- and it's very much appreciated so I just wanted to say that and if.

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There are any specific questions, we're happy to answer them, but I.

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Would request that you've forward a favorable recommendation recommendation to the board of.

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County commissioners, on this annexation request and the zoning waiver, thank you.

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So at this point, is there a motion that you would like to make.

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Sure I'll make a motion help you forward a favorable request for the annexation.

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And the zoning waiver for um the manchester annexation number 41, patapsco, 91, llc and use.

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A favorable request, that'd be a recommendation. Yes recommendation, sorry, so it's all right. Is there a.

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Second I'll, second, that okay, so we have a motion and a second to forward a favorable recommendation.

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On the uh I guess, technically, the comment letter is in there, as well as the zoning waiver right.

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um Is a do? We need a roll call for this? No okay. Is there any further discussion.

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All in favor aye, aye aye anyone opposed or abstain. The recommended favorable.

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Recommendations shall be forwarded. Okay, great, thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you.

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We'll move on to item 10, which is a entitled a special report,.

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This is case s-21-0004 sheets westminster.

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While we're, while you guys are setting up, I just want to exercise a little prerogative if we can take a five minute recess just to get situated. Okay, so we'll stand in recess for five minutes. Thank you.

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Welcome back, we will call the meeting back to order and uh before us is item 10 on the agenda.

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Which is labeled a special report and as we head into this, I just want to sort of make.

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Expectations clear what this is and what it is not so a special report, there's no action. That's.

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Going to be taken by this commission, these tend to be, in my experience, good things. It's sort of.

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An extra step in the process for us to have input for the community to have input and it's uh to get.

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Feedback to give ideas to give concerns whatever those may be, but it's um generally we view this.

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As a very good thing, as usual, I'm going to ask that this um be done in a respectful and civil.

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Way, I'd like all of us to treat each other the way we'd want to be treated if we had something before.

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This body um and- uh and I think it just reflects well on the community and who we are so that's.

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What we're going to require, um I think, um we're going to gather a lot of information, we're going.

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To ask a lot of questions and then there'll be a time for public comment and during the.

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Public comment: we'll ask you to step up to the microphone. That's there in the middle of the room.

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Give us your name, give us your address and then make your comment a lot of times, we'll limit.

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Comments to three minutes, because we want to make sure everybody has an equal opportunity to provide.

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Comments- and we don't have filibusters going on for you- know an hour with one person speaking so.

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We'll try to uh we'll try to keep the comments to to that time. Time frame, if we can so with that, I.

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Want to go ahead and begin the special report, if we could ms matthies thank you appreciate that.

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I don't often get that much of an introduction from you. I I like that, because you said a few.

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Things that I'm going to also reiterate um so laura matthias bureau of development review and.

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Again, this is a special report in front of you it. uh The project proposal is a sheets which is.

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At the corner of sullivan road and maryland route 140., the county file number is s2104.

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And that 21 indicates the year which we started the plan process so I'll speak to the history of.

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That and and why we are sitting here in 2023, with a special report but again so special report. You.

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Are more than familiar with special reports? In fact, just last month we had three in front.

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Of you, those were different than this in that, as you just said, there there's no action being.

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Taken today by you, their staff is not requesting an action. There's no action. um Last month we had a.

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Few modifications to previously approved plans in those special reports, so that did require that was.

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A different scenario: this is not that scenario, so we are here today at the request of the developer.

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For discussion at a public meeting, so that is exactly thank you for that introduction again. So.

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The existing conditions you'll see the site is here. As I said, it's the northwest quadrant of.

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Sullivan and 140, and it is red and the red color on here- is designating a c2 zoning.

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District, so commercial, okay, this is, they are proposing a sheets here, a convenience store.

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Fueling stations, that is a principal permitted use in the commercial zoning district, okay.

A

Hey laura before we get too far. Could I just ask that we get an introduction of everybody who's.

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Sitting up here, we can do that. Would you like to introduce yourself by names? Please sure thank you.

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I'll I'll do the introductions for the sheets team. My name is john mcguire, I'm the attorney.

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For sheets, which is the applicant to my immediate right, is gary killfeather. He is the sheets project.

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Manager and to gary's right is bruce d. Anthony bruce is uh you'll, see the uh the owner listed.

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As pat amy llc, that's bruce's, family company and bruce is the spokesman for the family also behind.

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Me is kyle smith, who is sheets of senior real estate market manager, tony federero, who is sheets.

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Of senior real estate site selector next to kyle um valak zarsky, who is the private engineering.

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Consultant on the project with baltimore land design group mark healey, who is with is a traffic.

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Consultant and kyle schmidt, who is also a schmid, I'm sorry trafficking consultant with traffic.

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Concepts- and I know you'll- be anxious to get to kyle and mark after I give you some overview so.

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I think that's everybody excellent. Thank you. I'm sorry to interrupt. I just thought: it'd be.

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Useful, you know who everybody is, and we remember all that. Why we're down we'll see but welcome to.

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Everybody. Thank you very good. Thank you. Thank you. Okay, so we're going to zoom into the site.

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The site itself is comprised of three separate parcels right now, so the address points being.

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8 10 and 14 sullivan road each parcel was developed independently, and this goes back.

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1979 through 1997., we did have plans come through. We have a history of those for these.

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um Specific three parcels and the development of those, so it's it's been a while. It's been a few.

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um The most recent years, the cables car care is there where there was an approved jeep dealership.

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There's a plans for a highs, dairy store. They were approved in 1979.

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That's where the most recently the vocelli's pizza is I'm pointing with.

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My finger- that's really helpful here right here. I also learned a new mouse trick today.

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And this was cable's car care, and this was approved as an exxon station fueling station.

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And convenience store and that was approved in 1987. the most um recent use. There was a.

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Series of small businesses that were on the site, currently all the businesses are closed and the.

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Lot is being used for vehicle storage. It's my that's! What we've seen used for yeah, okay,.

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So adjoining I'm going to go back one slide to the zoning so joining the property on the.

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North across sullivan road, on the north side of han, we have our 10.

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000 and these are built with single family residences, this is.

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The entire area I'm referring to on the north side of han um to the west, we have the community pond.

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And that's in the conservation, zoning district across sullivan road on the south side of han.

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Road, the c2 zone property has the roy rogers if you're familiar at all with this area,.

J

um That's a fast food, restaurant and then across 140 on the south within the city of westminster's.

J

Jurisdiction, we have the plum crazy. Diner is directly across on the south side. Okay, so that's.

J

Just to familiarize you with that intersection that area, if you don't travel it that often so.

J

A site development plan for the subject probably was submitted to the county in june of 2021. again.

J

So that explains the county file number being an ass-21, so we did receive a submittal, a technical.

J

Plan submittal in june of 2021 that did move forward to the technical review committee, which.

J

Is our standard process in july of 2021? There have been no technical plans submitted since that june.

J

2021 plans submittal, okay, so staff technical staff has not seen and reviewed this in the interim.

J

So, prior to this meeting we did receive they submitted a single sheet schematic.

J

Design drawing was submitted in february prior to this meeting, and that was to for comments.

J

From technical agencies to the greatest extent that they could offer comments.

J

So this schematic is a good place to pause. It does depict what the developer is proposing.

J

So the proposal is to consolidate the three parcels, demolish the existing structures and.

J

Develop the subject parcel as a single site with a sheets convenience store.

J

And fueling stations and the store at this point is of 4906 square feet.

J

Also proposed is an access from sullivan road.

J

Again, I'm gonna right here and a second access from maryland 140. foreign.

J

The building itself you'll see, is situated towards the northernmost property line. It.

J

They have annotated that it's 15.2 feet from that northern residential.

J

Property and the access drive aisle when you get when you come into the site that.

J

Is given as a 10-foot dimension from the access drive to the property run.

J

In between the northern property line and the building and the parking lot.

J

You'll also find that they are proposing a retaining wall. Oops.

J

I apologize fancy with my mouse and I got two fancy so the retaining.

J

Wall is shown here in that space and wraps down.

J

Required parking for the site based on the use totals 25 stalls and they have shown 36 on.

J

Site- and there are dumpsters shown on the west side of the site here, as well as an unloading.

J

Zone proposed here at the driver, you know the feeling stations, so it's a general overview.

J

Of what the current plan proposal looks like um we did just to insert here. It's a perfect place.

J

To talk about, we did send out notification to the neighborhood of this public meeting.

J

And you've seen the emails they came to you, I was copied so we had about 17 emails and a.

J

Handful of phone calls that also came in with many comments which you've read.

J

But just to reiterate, this is a lot of those comments for in regards to the use and what is.

J

Proposed there, and just to reiterate that this is a principal permitted use in this.

J

Zoning district, so it is permitted as long as they meet all of the technical requirements.

J

And the planning commission will be the final approval authority once we get there.

J

So I like to take a few minutes when the staff did take a look at this plan. I want to go over.

J

The comments that pertain specifically to site layout or may potentially impact the layout of.

J

The site or the access points um which maybe we don't know what those changes would look.

J

Like at this point in time, right as we work through the plan review process that evolves.

J

So our roads department in looking at it did say the bureau of rhodes- does have concern with the.

J

Heavy traffic congestion that may occur at han and sullivan as people enter and exit the site.

J

Right so we're talking about along sullivan road. Here we have the intersection with han.

J

And here we also have an access point for the roy rogers right and the proposed entrance for the.

J

Site is here it's as far north on sullivan road as they can go on their property, but there is.

J

Concern from roads when they took a look at that parks and recreation had major safety concerns.

J

With the proximity of the baltimore boulevard, ingress and egress, and the park entrance road.

J

Currently, the site does have an entrance off of 140. It's it's further.

J

Towards sullivan road, it's being relocated closer to the community pond entrance and.

J

This is the the community upon entrance here, so their concern was that proximity.

J

Our landscaping review in the initial plan that we received back in 2021. There was also.

J

A variance request for the landscaping and so landscaping review and reviewing this did note.

J

That and I'm going to read this verbatim his words, the developer, applied for a variance to.

J

Reduce the width of the class c screen required between the project and the existing residential.

J

Property to the north, the variance request was disapproved by chris hein director department.

J

Of land and resource management on may 6 2022. In his disapproval letter mr hein recommended that.

J

The developer either coordinate with the adjacent property owner to utilize. The exception documented.

J

In one chapter, 158.05 h or reconfigure the site to meet the code requirements, the submittal did.

J

Not incorporate either of those recommendations, so we don't know what that will look like or.

J

Where that's going to address the code, the manual landscape manual and then development reviewed in.

J

Looking at it did I didn't overall, I did review it. I did an overall assessment of the site again.

J

Things that may impact the overall layout of the site. The access on 140 has been relocated.

J

Since the initial plan review in july 2021, it's recognized that sha did require a minimum corner.

J

Clearance of 200 feet from the radius return of sullivan road and maryland 140 intersection.

J

However, the access has moved more than 200 feet from that intersection and closer to the entrance.

J

Of the community pond, as it was stated in 2021 development, review, fully supports and encourages.

J

Discussion and collaboration between the county and the developer to pursue a mutually beneficial.

J

Vehicular connection between the development site and the community pond providing a safer.

J

Entrance to the pond community pond and enhanced accessibility to the sheets.

J

So it was an initial comment: there was a lot of discussion with the county, the developer as to.

J

Could there be a solution that benefits both.

J

um The north property line again comments from development review.

J

The north property line, which is shared with a residential zoned and built property, is.

J

Depicted with a 10-foot dimension from the property line to the edge of paving.

J

Within that 10 feet of retaining wall is proposed to construct that will the.

J

Limits of disturbance, ascend onto the joining property question to maintain the retaining.

J

Wall will a maintenance easement be need to be established on the adjoining property question.

J

So all questions that we are posing that will hopefully lead in developing the plan.

J

How will the required landscaping requirements at the northern property line be addressed.

J

Will the edge of paving need to be relocated? Will the building need to be relocated.

J

Consider how the site and the building lighting will affect adjacent residential zone and built.

J

Properties, of course, we will see a photometric plan. Eventually, this is not. We don't have that.

J

With this design is the site redesign necessary to shield adjoining residential properties from.

J

Parking building or access drive lights and consider how headlight trespass will.

J

Affect adjacent residentially zone and built properties to the north.

J

Is site redesigned necessary to shield adjoining residential properties from headlights so that.

J

Comment came from, as you can see the the drive aisle here we're coming straight towards this.

J

Resonance here without knowing the height of a retaining wall or the landscaping that will be.

J

Going in considering that, how will that affect the design of the site? And, lastly, engineering review.

J

So engineering reviews comments are quoted directly in here.

J

And they note that, as of this date, there are still concerns with the content and.

J

Recommendations within the traffic impact study, as stated in the original scoping letter for.

J

The traffic impact study, the queuing analysis, shall utilize a state highway administration's.

J

95 probability methodology to determine if adequate storage length is available.

J

For the exhibit in the traffic impact study, the 95 cube blocks the entrance to sheets and.

J

Presents a safety concern, this quantitative issue, coupled with existing conditions at the.

J

Sullivan road intersection presents a situation where we can't support the proposed design.

J

So going back to this is a 2021 project. They did submit a traffic impact study. They have been.

J

Through multiple revisions to the traffic impact study and the the traffic impact study, you're.

J

Very familiar with the contents, we were just in front of you last month or the month before, right.

J

And we did an overview for you of what a traffic impact study is when it's necessitated what it's.

J

Looking at what the criteria, what comes out of it, and so this, the trip generations for this type.

J

Of development are what necessitated the traffic and pec study. That study was initially submitted.

J

In june of 2021. 2021 right when they started in with us, the traffic impact study narrative.

J

Details existing conditions and impacts of the proposed development.

J

So I want to walk you through if you want to drive, if you will through this.

J

Area and show you what that comment from engineering or view looks like if you would.

J

So not sure how familiar everybody is with this, this intersection, but I'm going to walk you.

J

Through it from a vehicular perspective, right so sullivan road, of course, here.

J

Maryland route 140 here so the green lanes are I'm going straight. I'm heading west on 140, I'm.

J

Going straight, yellow is our turning lanes or in the case of the maryland 97 ramp. It's.

J

More of a merge lane right, you're you're, going onto a ramp lane and orange, is an acceleration.

J

Lane so this is all existing conditions, so what you'll see is on sullivan road.

J

You have a right turn lane, which proceeds into an acceleration lane. You also have coming south.

J

On sullivan road, you have another lane, which is either a straight or turn left turn lane. Okay,.

J

Heading westbound on 140., you have a right before sullivan road. You have a lane that is for a right.

J

Turn on the sullivan road, you have three straight through lanes and you have an additional lane.

J

Which is for a left turn south on sylvan road? Okay, now, as you progress through that intersection.

J

You have three straight lines: you have that acceleration lane and that acceleration lane.

J

From sullivan you'll see once it ends and you're merging into the rest of traffic, it puts you.

J

Into a yellow turning lane and that turning lane is marked, you can see the arrows here.

J

Is marked, and that takes you to you- can turn into the media community pond.

J

You can think you're going on to 97 and turn into the community pond for a visit.

Q

Yeah and you could keep going it's still a turn slash on ramp for maryland, 97 north.

J

Okay, if you're coming off of sullivan road and you're in that celebration, lane and then.

J

You merge into the turn lane you have to merge over again. If you want to continue straight on.

J

140 right, so the two left for this left lanes are your straight lanes that then keep going.

J

So it is an interesting scenario for those of you who haven't driven it. I encourage you to drive it.

J

But it is, it is what it is. That's the existing state of the traffic patterns in that area.

J

From the data received, we have noted that that specific area has seen 33 accidents.

J

Over a period of three years from the beginning of 2020 to the end of 2022,.

J

Now we're going to take a look at the existing conditions plus background and we reviewed this.

J

When we went over the traffic impact studies that background lingo, that means things that.

J

Are approved to be developed in this area, but they may not have already come to fruition right. They.

J

May not be constructed, but they are approved and they are moving towards construction, so it takes.

J

Into account, the existing condition, as well as the background condition and levels of service.

J

We also went over this and our traffic impact study, reviews and you'll be familiar with what.

J

That is, these are delays in seconds, so this is the existing condition at these intersections.

J

We will find a couple of that are currently failing. F, f is failing, um f for failing and.

J

The entrances that exist right now onto the site. There are two on sullivan road and two on 140.

J

And then you'll also see numbers and the numbers are taken.

J

They are taken from the actual accounts. The traffic counts that were done with the traffic.

J

Impact study- and these are the peak hour for the pm trips, so these are actual accounts so.

J

Going north on southern or on sullivan road, we have 386 vehicles coming off of han road.

J

We have 44 going on to han road 101. We have some coming out of roy rogers and then the westminster.

J

Community pond is seeing 19 and 24 out and 2618 vehicles at that peak hour are traveling on 140.

J

In the westbound direction, what is the time again for this? It's a one hour. It's the peak.

J

Hour so, and it was in the pm, those were the highest number accounts for the pm versus. I am.

J

Okay, so this is, the conditions would exist again. The proposed plan.

J

And then we're going to look at the.

J

Future conditions so future plus improvements; okay, so they are proposing some improvements right now,.

J

Along sullivan road, we go from the two. We saw that right turn lane, and then we saw the through.

J

Left lane they are proposing to also add a right left turn dedicated left turn lane in here as well.

J

Okay, so if you look at the levels of service.

J

Not a significant change and actually they're not making anything worse, so they don't have.

J

To mitigate level of service is acceptable, so per the traffic study. Level of service is acceptable.

J

If they're making the scenario worse, they have, they would have to mitigate for just their.

J

Worsening of the condition, the exacerbation of that condition so then you'll see we also.

J

Are looking at numbers so some of the numbers look, the same. Roy rogers hunt road, the entrance we have.

J

From the traffic impact state, we have 10 um 10 vehicles coming in 63, going out onto sullivan road.

J

J

Again, utilizing the site during peak pm, peak hours,.

J

And then at this entrance we have 99 coming out and 119 coming in.

J

Okay, so that's that's at the numbers that.

J

Are anticipated that the development would add to that area intersection.

J

Okay, if you go back there, huh can you can you give me that one more.

C

Time how many cars are coming in to the entrance on sullivan.

K

10., so it's showing ten! This is peak hour right. This is the simple the peak hour, so 10 coming in.

J

And 63 exiting all right and the other entrance it's 99 and 119. correct. So I mean doesn't that.

C

Basically mean we've got a bunch of people who aren't leaving it's like hotel, california,.

J

Maybe they stay beyond the peak hour, maybe they stay for a while. We do have um that. We have our.

J

Engineering review specialist for reviewer and we have people from dpw that could go more into.

J

Where did the rest of the people you? They could answer that question better than I could.

J

Okay, all right so levels of service, not not an issue, um although as engineering review.

J

Did comment the 95 cube blocks the entrance of sheets, so we wanted to show that graphically.

J

What that looks like and walk you through that and the case scenarios here, so this is.

J

The queue the q and the am is worse. So this is what the queue looks like in the morning. Okay,.

J

So the numbers that the traffic impact studies show is that we would have 223.

J

Northbound, going straight on sullivan road and 21 people that are coming in that northbound.

J

Direction are turning into the site, so these gray cars right are heading north.

J

And you'll see the orange cars have reached a point with that. Cueing.

J

The stacking, the queuing that has locked a portion or all of that entrance point.

J

So we do also have so all these cars are waiting to either go straight or turn left here we have.

J

The right dedicated right lane for turning onto 140, although that lane starts here. So if you're.

J

Back here on sullivan road, you can't quite get to that. Yet unless people are nice enough to.

J

Let you in there are interesting scenarios right where maybe you're coming out of han road, and you.

J

Are also trying to make a left onto sullivan, will people let you in? Will they not? How long are you.

J

Waiting, I don't know, but it is a scenario where han road also is is blocked in some sense, so the.

J

Site entrance ends up being blocked, han road ends up being blocked and we are challenged to.

J

Although they have provided a lane on the shoulder where you can pass these cars.

J

If you're all the way back here towards 140 you're, not yet in a scenario where you can scoot around.

J

The left turning vehicles so you'll see if you walk yourself through various scenarios of where.

J

I'm coming from and where I'm going, it's greatly challenged. So the comment for an engineering.

J

Review is specifically that we can't yet support the design so the county, while the state highway.

J

Administration also reviewed the traffic impact study because sullivan road county road.

J

140 state highway, so state highway and the county reviewed the traffic impact.

J

Study the state highway administration did concur with a study. They are looking at 140.

J

They concurred with the study and approved it on august 18th of 2022.

J

In review of the plan, they also determined that the proposed access point on 140 is.

J

Acceptable to them, the county, however, does not yet find that the proposed.

J

Mitigation adequately alleviates the development's traffic impacts.

J

So before I summarize and conclude my report.

J

I do want to offer the developer john said he did have.

J

A report to share with you, so I want to offer the development the engineer they.

J

May want to introduce themselves again remind you their names and.

J

Speak to their project and then we will come back. I will summarize wrap.

J

Everything up for you and then we can move to public comment. If you would.

A

Yes, thank you. I do have uh some overview comments because I think there's more than just what you've.

Q

Seen that creates part of the context for why we're here, but getting to why we're here.

P

Is that we've reached an impasse on the traffic impact study, as you've heard sheets has done.

P

I think the back up a little bit, I think, all the raw data, the assumptions, the things that.

P

The foundational information that goes into the traffic study- I don't think we have any.

P

Any difference of opinion about that anymore there were. There was some of that back and.

P

Forth that happened early in the discussions, but where we are now is that the staff will.

P

Not approve the traffic study and in particular not so much the study portion but as part of the.

P

Study under the under the guidelines, the traffic mitigation plan is actually becomes part of the.

P

Study itself- and that's where we were hung up sheets- has provided a quite a bit of mitigation.

P

You'll hear more about that, but they've done the best they can do with the geometry that they have.

P

Out there- and you can see it plainly- that with the roy rogers with the residences to the north.

P

There's just only so much land to work with, and yet what they've done is created two additional.

P

Lanes and what you'll hear and actually I'll go to what's on the screen right now, because that's the.

P

You know that's the worst case queuing and what our traffic consultants will demonstrate is that.

P

Really that only occurs for about 10 to 15 seconds at the end of a cycle which is 180 seconds long, so.

P

It may occur statistically, it may occur once or twice during that peak hour.

P

But for the most part it's going to be open and traffic is going to trickle in over that 180.

P

Seconds and that once or twice in an hour, you may that intersection may well be blocked for.

P

um For 10 or 15 seconds, and then you know if it boils down to that.

P

Being the question the question is: is that a reason to deny the entire.

P

Mitigation plan, when it does so much positive for uh for the for the traffic patterns and the.

P

Traffic flow um but kind of getting back into the progression of things. um There has been a.

P

A tremendous amount of effort to satisfy these demands and and there's just nowhere else, to go.

P

um And yet it doesn't seem to make sense to sort of throw out the plan uh when there is so much.

P

Improvement that's being offered at the expense of sheets. The seems like the issue is now narrowed.

P

Down mainly to that cueing that you're, saying and again, I think our traffic experts will show you.

P

That there's really nothing left, that sheets can do and which is which is really essentially the.

P

Reason that we're here it's all about traffic, if we can't design, we can't know that this.

P

Design is going to work, then the rest of the plan doesn't work. We don't know how to design it and.

P

You know the estimates are that it could cost 50 to 100 000 to get a concept plan. You know refile.

P

Because it is going to have to be refiled due to some of these additional mitigation measures.

P

And to get it back to the planning commission, it's got a whole process and many months to.

P

Go through to get it there and uh that's not a fair thing to ask a developer, but it would.

P

Be fair if the planning commission sends a signal that this traffic mitigation plan works.

P

If the signal is it doesn't work, there's nowhere else for sheets to go so we're kind of we're out.

P

Of luck and out of business, um so what I think what's happening here is the staff demand has.

P

Made sort of the perfect the enemy of the good and and it's a very good traffic mitigation plan.

P

So the ask is to look at the traffic impact study guidelines which you're familiar with um and and.

P

To understand that the the traffic mitigation plan really is squarely in the province of the planning.

P

Commission, when you look at the guidelines, the staff makes recommendations, but the planning.

P

Commission makes the final decision, and I think part of that is because the planning commission.

P

Unlike the technical staff, can sort of look at the bigger picture, you know look at the the overview.

P

Of what's happening and what the benefits are to the public and and what the potential is for.

P

Improvement uh to a to a prominent intersection uh and and and that's one of the things that.

P

That I want to speak a little bit more about the overall context, the existing conditions. Well, it's.

P

The I mean when you look at: what's there now there are entrances two or three entrances.

P

And the entrance of the exxon is just almost like: you can pull in and out wherever you want.

P

um So just think about what the situation is now. First off the queuing uh goes back uh based.

P

On the study some 400 feet, this is showing you, I think, about 300 feet of queuing. uh You know based.

P

On the traffic, assuming the traffic mitigation plan is put into place, so the car's back up and.

P

If anybody drives by there, I mean it doesn't take a traffic engineer to see there's only one lane.

P

To turn left and that's where everybody's going in the morning, which is where the the main issue.

P

Is here and the traffic backs up well beyond this, so everybody's blocked? So yes, there's a potential.

P

Statistical possibility of blocking after the mitigation is constructed, but it's much better.

P

Than having cars back up, you know 400 450 feet which happens every morning and I can understand.

P

Why the public's frustrated with that? But but what she's has to offer is to improve the condition.

P

For itself, but also for the traveling public. Basically, these are public roads and they're, using.

P

Every amount of right-of-way available so they're expanding to the extent of the right-of-way and to.

P

The extent of their property and mr d anthony is losing at least three and a half feet of.

P

His property along the entire frontage of sullivan road to widen it enough to kind of to make it work.

P

And it's a tight squeeze as it is, because you've got a sidewalk that goes along the.

P

Road you've got maintenance easement that the county needs to maintain its road. You've got.

P

Setbacks to parking so there's a lot of other things that are going on and uh and they will.

P

Be they will be looked at and the engineering team at sheets feels that they can work with.

P

You know some of the things that laura raised, like lighting and and retaining.

P

Long grading- that's really not what we're here about today I mean I understand they're.

P

Going to be concerns if we can get over the hurdle of the of the traffic mitigation plan.

P

um But but the sheets is a has got a pretty uh sophisticated, knowledgeable experience.

P

Team, that's looked at that and they feel they can address those things. For example,.

P

The landscape question with the neighbor and the need to get you know adjoining property.

P

Approval we've approached neighbor we've gotten a letter from the neighbor. Of course, a lot of that's.

P

Conditional because the plans aren't final, but the neighbor is- has been cooperative. So that's.

P

Something that we've moved towards just to try to get. uh You know a better sense for the feasibility.

P

I must say it's been very difficult getting to the planning commission with this issue. I.

P

The staff resisted for quite a while to get us here, and I do appreciate that.

P

You're you're willing to listen because I think you're getting the pictures to why.

P

This is so important to the to the project and an essential you know to the project.

P

Sheets of course understands that if we can get the green light on the traffic mitigation.

P

Plan that they've got to go back to the concept plan stage, redesign move it through the system.

P

So there's no misunderstanding on that, but everything flows that will flow from from.

P

The approval of traffic mitigation plan so and notwithstanding the opening statements, mr.

P

Chairman, we would ask based on the fact that the traffic guidelines give the planning commission.

P

The exclusive authority to answer questions resolve questions about the traffic mitigation.

P

Plan that the planning commission approved the traffic impact study with the mitigation.

P

We understand- that's probably not where you're headed based on your comments, but we do think.

P

That the next best thing would be to give the type of conditional or provisional approval. That would.

P

Give sheets the confidence to move forward to make the expenditure in time to make the plan work.

P

You know the most disappointing thing would be if you feel that the traffic mitigation plan is.

P

A good one but you're not willing to really give us any sense for uh for whether it's provable at.

P

Some point and that's really what we need. um As far as the you know, the property itself and the.

P

Opportunity to upgrade the intersection, I think that's clear from what you've seen it's kind of.

P

Gotten beat up over the years, it's separated into three uses. If this doesn't happen or somebody's.

P

Similar to sheets doesn't come in and redevelop it it's going to stay the way it is it's going.

P

To have all these dangerous entrances that it has now, the mitigation is not is not going to occur.

P

And it's going to look the way it looks now and who knows who the individual smaller tenants would.

P

Be I mean this is an opportunity to to you know it's an adaptive and a productive reuse of that.

P

Property at a prominent intersection, it's going to have you know brand new, paving landscaping. The.

P

Entrances are going to work as best they can under the situation. It's going to be designed for modern.

P

Storm water management- you know function, so it's there's a lot of positive to it sheets. Of course,.

P

I think is pretty well known in the community. They have stores already in the eastern part,.

P

Of westminster and tony town manchester they're successful, capable company, so a good developer.

P

That can do what they say and they're willing to do the right thing. They like this location or they.

P

Wouldn't have stuck with it this long, that's probably obvious they're in the c2 zone, where.

P

This is a principal permitted use. It was planned for this and, interestingly, as you saw from the.

P

The exhibit before the c2 zone is only about 250 270 feet deep in this area and then it transitions.

P

Into residential, so this is not a situation where you're going to be building and expanding a big.

P

Commercial development, it's kind of the it's sort of an island in itself on that side of of 140.

P

um In addition to closing the the you know, poorly designed entrances.

P

um You're going to add the two lanes going in either direction. It's going to.

P

You'll hear from the uh from the consultants that it will create a net reduction in the.

P

Queuing before and after and again going back to the guidelines, there are two places in the.

P

Guidelines that I'd just like to you know without the laboring this the guidelines in section 5.1.17.

P

uh Subsection e, if the existing level of service is inadequate or the existing plus background.

P

Growth causes inadequate, inadequate level service. Then the developer will be required to mitigate.

P

Only the traffic to be generated by the proposed project, so I think what we're talking about there.

P

I mean the rationale behind that is that developer can't be made to solve all the problems in a major.

P

Intersection, where traffic's coming from you know, places way well beyond its control um and and that.

P

There's recognition of that so so what does it mean in simple terms? I think it means that you.

P

Have to make the intersection equal or better than what it was when you showed up, and what you'll.

P

Hear is going to be much better and especially on this queuing issue, which seems to be you know the.

P

Main focus, I also want to mention that um this property is subject to an annexation agreement.

P

With the city of westminster sheets entered into a lease with mr d, anthony back in february 2020, the.

P

Quick history is that they intended to develop it strictly within the county, which is what they're.

P

Doing but they discovered that the city would not provide water, public, water and sewer without.

P

Annexation, that's just the city policy. It's become well known. The city strongly supported the.

P

Redevelopment but um the development was occurring within the county, so the city agreed to provide.

P

The water, public, water and sewer, assuming that the project would get approved and construction began.

P

Would begin and the the developer has agreed to annex into the city that was begun. The discussion.

P

Before the city's economic development commission, they recommended uh to negotiate an annexation.

P

Agreement recognizing an opportunity to upgrade that intersection, which they don't care for at.

P

The moment you know the way it looks and the way it functions the annexation grant was negotiated.

P

Signed by the city on july, 12th of 2021, so some of this was going on, while while the plan was was.

P

Sitting here at the county, the original plan and that annexation agreement premised in a recital.

P

That says, the city supports the development of the property, with a convenience store and a gas.

P

Station and you've got some comments that sort of echo that that were given by the city recently as.

P

Part of this special report, the city has expressed its continued support. You know for the project so.

P

We think that's that's relevant um it doesn't, it doesn't bind you, this is a county project.

P

At the moment, but it is relevant that it will be will be in the city and the city supports it.

P

The the other part of the the guidelines that I think are relevant uh section, 5.1.19, subsection.

P

H, recommendations for improvement of conditions shall be sensitive to the following, at least.

P

A number of things, but one of those things, is that the sum of improvements are proportional.

P

To the projected impact- and I I think it's not much of a stretch to know that when these were.

P

Adopted the supreme court of the united states was recognizing that there were limits to what.

P

You could take from a developer that the taking the exactions from the developer have to be.

P

In the words they use are roughly proportionate to the impact of the development. So again, we've.

P

Got a development and and that's sort of part of the intent of your guidelines. So I don't know that.

P

You can take that language to say you know you win or you lose, but it should be part of your.

P

Consideration uh in this and we've got a traffic mitigation plan that makes conditions better.

P

So how much more you know would it be reasonable to try to take and in this situation, there's.

P

Nothing more to take, there's no there's nothing more sheets can give there's nowhere else to.

P

Go to make this work, I would add that the store that's planned here is the smallest of the sheets.

P

Prototypical stores, so if the thought is make a small store it just it doesn't work, it doesn't.

P

Work economically and it doesn't fit into their their models. um As far as applying the criteria.

P

And the guidelines, the overall we ask you not lose sight of the fact that the overall level of.

P

Service of the intersection is a level c. It's it's adequate, but what the staff has done is started to.

P

Look at individual traffic movements, and so that's where they they raise some difficulty.

P

I would also add that you have a drawing in the packet from the letter of december 20th. That was.

P

Done by traffic concepts, it's in the pocket part that shows the old state highway administration.

P

Plat, I don't want to dwell on that, but it appears as though the han road intersection this whole.

P

Intersection was redesigned to accommodate 140 as a bypass for westminster, so the road network.

P

Was different than this again, it's not perfect, han road being that close to the intersection.

P

It is what it is as laura said, but it was a design that was was done by state highway administration.

P

Many many years ago, and it's what we have to work with. However, the the traffic from han road will.

P

Also benefit from the reduction in the killing, and it will also get a right turn lane to sort.

P

Of escape, if they want to go to the north, which is not there right now, there's one lane and so.

P

It will be of some benefit to han road as well. It's not going to be perfect, but it's going to.

P

Be an improvement over existing conditions, which I, which I really think is the test.

P

But I think what you have here is a small site. That's making an outsized contribution to the.

P

Overall improvement traffic, I'm hoping that you're recognizing that and because of that we need some.

P

Help from the planning commission to give us the sort of the green light uh to tell us that that.

P

You know our traffic mitigation plan will work, and I will also mention something that I mentioned to.

P

You all a couple months ago, when I, when I spoke, and that is that under the county code chapter.

P

156.03 b, commercial developments are exempt from concurrency management adequacy testing altogether.

P

So I'm not suggesting that we don't need you know: traffic impact studies.

P

Because you all need guidance and the staff needs guidance is the best design available.

P

But I am suggesting that, because of that you know there was a reason for that. A lot of the carroll.

P

County development is on state highways, which the county doesn't control. The state has its own.

P

Blessed slow deliberate way of getting around to our intersections, but the county can't control it.

P

So so, rather than [ __ ] development in the county indefinitely, the county exempted this from the.

P

Testing not from the study of the design. You need. You need that. So that's not what I'm suggesting.

P

But the rationale is an economic development rationale and the rationale that the state.

P

Highway administration regulates this, so they tr, they review the traffic studies and, in this case,.

P

It's a state highway, uh intersection, sullivan road maryland, 140. state highway has looked at.

P

All this and the state highway has determined that it's this. The traffic study is acceptable.

P

And that would also apply even to the community pond entrance, which is another imperfect situation.

P

We didn't cause, others didn't cause, it just is what it is, but it was looked at it. It doesn't.

P

Work but again it's the state. It's on the state highway, so state highway was certainly aware.

P

Of the community pond entrance and of what the options were to move the sheets entrance.

P

And this is what they approved and I think that's that's the approval that would stand.

P

So with that um and I apologize for I I thank you for your indulgence. I apologize for taking.

P

So long, but I think the context is important. I'd like to call on mark healey mark has a master's in.

P

Transportation planning he's with traffic concepts. I introduced him earlier. He has extensive many.

P

Years of experience as a transportation, planner works on these types of issues really all over.

P

The state is it mark good morning. My name is mark keeley, I'm a project manager with traffic concepts.

R

um I've been in this business for over 30 years, and I've been with traffic concepts for almost.

R

20 years so we conducted the traffic impact study. The first study was submitted july, 14 2022.

R

um And then it was revised september 16 2022.. The revisions were done to include the royal farms. I.

R

Mean the roy rogers access and then to other housekeeping measures to correct lane widths.

R

um The state highway, as we heard, reviewed the entire study, not just the access points.

R

To maryland 140., they reviewed the study. We also in addition to the traffic study. We did a.

R

Synchro analysis, that's a model, a traffic model that simulates traffic, and we did that along.

R

Sullivan road and 140 to really to to highlight what the traffic mitigation provides in terms of.

R

Improvements and this so the state approved the entire traffic study. They approved the access.

R

To maryland, 140 and also the trip generation and everything that goes into the study, so, as you know,.

R

This a traffic impact study, you've heard this many times- includes three components: existing.

R

Background and future the existing um is a it's a commercial site and it has over 6 000 square feet.

R

Of of building floor area, it includes a restaurant, the pizza shop, auto repair and a nexon gas station.

R

um So this this project is a commercial redevelopment. That's going to remove those.

R

Buildings improve the site, as we heard in in a sheetz gas station, is going to be constructed.

R

With a convenience store, um so the existing counts were conducted at sullivan road at.

R

Maryland 140 angler, maryland, 140, haunted sullivan and the roy rogers, as I said, ed sullivan, so that.

R

Creates the existing traffic editions and then we analyze the intersections at that point, the.

R

Background included one one: development windy hill, which is 83 single family units, and it.

R

Also included a growth rate um of 0.5 percent and that growth rate was provided by the state highway.

R

Administration, the future traffic condition they'll, create a convenience store of 4959.

R

Square feet with gasoline pumps, I believe: there's there's uh five pumps, so 10 fueling positions.

R

um And I think that's one less pump than it exists today, um so the site, as we heard and.

R

I'm not going to elaborate too much that the site access points currently are two access points onto.

R

Maryland 140 and then it's it's essentially it's wide open along sullivan road and we're gonna can.

R

Combine those access points, as we heard, put push them at the furthest. Most points of the project.

R

Away from sullivan at maryland, 140. so a right in right out to maryland 140 and a full movement to.

R

um Sullivan road, the traffic mitigation, as as my colleague kaush meat, is going to um elaborate more.

R

Detail provides capacity along sullivan road that capacity helps with intersection delays.

R

And also killing- and this exhibit- I think this is a great exhibit it. I think it actually highlights.

R

um The improvements that sheets is going to provide because, if you can imagine.

R

Well, let me back up so this. This provides the right turn lane through left and a left turn.

R

Lane it also shows a bypass lane which allows traffic to turn. If you want to make a left.

R

Into the site, from sullivan road, you don't block the through traffic because we provide a bypass.

R

And then, as we also heard of your own on han road with that bypass, if you want to turn right, you.

R

Can you can get by the traffic? So if you, if you look at the cars stacked on this, exhibit.

R

And if you can imagine the existing traffic condition with a right turn and then a shared.

R

Through left with that same traffic, that's going to back up much further along sullivan road, so I.

R

Think that this greatly illustrates the fact that we mitigate our impact and, as you just.

R

Heard apfo studies: what is what is incumbent upon? The developer is to to impact his traffic.

R

um Which? Which you're going to hear from kyle in greater detail, does in terms of of the killing.

R

And I think this this, the pushback from the county at this point is, is primarily the vehicle killing.

R

Because uh this, this exhibit shows two vehicles stopped at the at the site: access on sullivan.

R

Road, the synchro model shows that this traffic clears out which eat which, with each cycle.

R

um Length so it doesn't, it's not double cycling, you're, not sitting there through one cycle and.

R

The traffic is continuing to stack up um and again with, with the with the two left turn lanes.

R

We'll have a through left and a left that provides additional capacity to help that traffic clear out.

R

And, as you heard from miss matthias, this is not a level service issue. The sullivan road maryland.

R

140 level of service essentially remains the same. The overall level of service. When you compare it.

R

To background and that and that's how we mitigate our traffic, we we compare future to background and.

R

Then future with improvements to background. So in the am the background overall level of.

R

Service at maryland, 140 at sullivan avenue, is 24.7 seconds. That's a c under future with the.

R

Improvements, it's 24.9 seconds and that's the case with the the pm and saturday for the pm background.

R

Sullivan road under background is 25.4 seconds of delay. That's a c and it's 29.1 seconds.

R

Of delay under future, with the improvements and then saturday, it's 13.5 seconds under background.

R

Which is a b level service and it's 15 seconds, which is a b level service under future. So.

R

I think everybody agrees to this is not a level of service capacity issue.

R

And part of the reason for that is that the sheet store is it's? It's not.

R

It's not a traffic generator where you're going home, visiting the store and then going back home.

R

Or from work to the store and going back home, it's it's a pass by use, meaning it captures traffic.

R

That's already along sullivan road or primarily on maryland 140. It captures that existing traffic.

R

Into the site, and then it leaves so ite, which is how we generate traffic for for uses, says that a.

R

Convenience store with pumps has a 75 76 percent, passed by rate, so we're not we're not bringing.

R

New trips to this area, where sheets wants to be here because the existing traffic- that's already.

R

Out there they capture that traffic bring it to their site and it leaves and again I think.

R

We you've heard that we've we've combined the access points. We improved access for.

R

These for these pass by trips that we're we're bringing to the store we improve.

R

um The queeling, and also we maintain levels of service delay at the study intersections so.

R

That's just a brief overview again. The state highway approved the study they looked at our.

R

Synchro analysis, they approved the analysis and I'm going to let kaush mead he's our.

R

Chief design engineer- and he he designed the improvements, um the road improvements.

R

The signal has is going to be redesigned so um call with that all right. Thanks mark.

S

um Laura is there any way to get the site plan up that um there we go. Thank you so much good morning.

S

Everyone, my name, is kyle schmid, as mark said, I am the lead design engineer at traffic concepts.

S

um I've been employed traffic concepts for 15 years now. I have a civil engineering degree.

S

From the university of delaware, I've been a certified professional engineer for over 11.

S

Years and a certified professional traffic operations engineer for over seven years.

S

So the first uh site- access location I want to talk about- is the access along 140. That's up on.

S

The screen now so I know the agency had concerns regarding the proposed site, access location in.

S

Relation to the park for the special report, so this this maryland employees is, is a state.

S

Highway maintained roadway and they had their own design guidelines for eyesight access points so.

S

Sha required us to have a 200 foot offset from basically where the the curve around.

S

Sullivan road ties in the tangent section 140 and we're currently showing about 230 feet. So it's.

S

Just it's not significantly over that 200 foot minimum requirement that the state requires so.

S

We are, we realized that the park is right there, but it's we're required.

S

To meet that 200 foot offset per state guidelines on the state roadway.

S

um So there are two existing access locations here that do not meet state design guidelines.

S

So we're improving the access point from where it is today and meeting state guidelines for that.

S

So one of the reasons the state highway requires this 200 foot offset is it's something called a.

S

Weaving a weave analysis and a weave issue. So when you have solvent road traffic heading southbound,.

S

Turning right, they have to merge onto maryland 140, and you know right in this quarter. You got.

S

You know maryland 31 maryland 140 merrell 97, you know with you, have to be aligned in.

S

The right lane and there's a lot of weaving that occurs from that right turn on sullivan road, so.

S

The the bigger distance you have for these access points. um It just allows.

S

um An easier weave condition, and also, if you're, heading um westbound on merrell 140 and you want.

S

To turn right into sheets, you now have that extra, you know, say 100 feet or 150 feet from where it.

S

Is today that have to negotiate with that right turn coming off sullivan road, so there's a bigger.

S

Distance for the weave and that's why the state highway puts these minimum offsets in place.

S

As far as the shared access point, I know we touched on for the park and the sheets I mean.

S

From a traffic engineering standpoint, I feel like that would be very confusing for drivers to have.

S

A shared commercial access to a county park at one access- and I think there'd, be confusion.

S

For somebody thinking they were turning into a commercial access when they want to go to a park.

S

Or vice versa, and I think it's best to separate the axes like we have shown, and I agree that it's.

S

You know there's a lot of way, finding and guide signs in place here with these interstates that.

S

That have to be aligned with the lanes, but I think it's simple: there's no ground mounted.

S

Signs or anything to point to the park right now and you know it's people, you know if you're going.

S

Along a high-speed road like 140 and you you're, aligned in the um believe, the lane drop is for.

S

I think it's 31 or is it but whatever whatever uh highway, is directly in the.

S

Line that shares the right term in the parks maryland 97. You want to be clear to drivers on.

S

You know to make sure they're in the right lane know where access points are know where parks are so. I think a simple ground mounted sign would solve that.

S

Issue I think that consolidating the access points would be very confusing for people.

S

um There's minimal right turning volumes in the park, there's 14 a.m. Trips, 19 pm trips,.

S

um You know this whole corridor, there's there's a lot of shared access points up and down. This is characteristic of this entire corridor.

S

And yeah I mean essentially this this site access point. You know it works for a sheets.

S

Layout, but it also is a requirement we have to meet as from traffic engineering standpoint to.

S

Meet state highway guidelines so we're only about 30 feet more than that 200 foot threshold that we.

S

Have to have so we're just trying to follow state guidelines on the state road and we realize that.

S

You know there are some challenges with this proximity of the park, but.

S

We're kind of constrained to what we have to work with here.

S

um Okay, so the next uh kind of I guess exhibit I want to discuss- is our concept plan on sullivan.

S

Road and the improvements that we're doing out there- and I believe I handed that out earlier.

S

You should have a hard copy, I think it's exhibit. 1B is on the bottom right corner.

H

Do we know if they're power, washing next door or what.

I

S

Yes, I guess yeah you can just. I was thinking if, if this is the same thing that each of you has then.

J

Maybe face it this way, so people can see it and one thing just to from keeping the trains running.

A

On time perspective, we have a hard stop at noon and it's um it's quarter of 11 now and I want to.

A

So I'll try and rush you, but I do kind of want to rush you, because I want to make sure that we.

A

Have an opportunity for us to ask questions and for the community to offer uh their comments. I'm.

S

Trying to organize as much as I can just to hit all the points I know I know, and I.

A

Appreciate that okay, okay, so exhibit 1b um and john said it. You know at the very beginning, but.

S

You know our development team has maximized the utilization of solving road from 140.

S

The proposed site access there are a lot of constraints with right-of-way.

S

um There's utility poles existing properties, we've worked with the state and the county.

S

You know reconfigured the site layout of the sheets several times at this point.

S

um And offered road improvements to the extent that we see feasible improvements beyond what.

S

Are currently presented will not make this a feasible site for sheets to move forward with.

S

So I'm just going to basically go through this exhibit and just kind of highlight several of the.

S

Improvements that we're doing to the existing intersection and along the sullivan road leg.

S

um So, as far as consolidating access points, there are currently two large open asphalt access points.

S

With little control and consolidation for vehicles entering and exiting the sites, this is on sullivan.

S

Road there's also two on 140. um consulting to one-site access point along sullivan road.

S

At the far north end of the property line to maximize the potential distance for queuing.

S

And separations from 140., so we clearly push the site access point on sullivan road as far away.

S

As 140 that we could possibly get within our right-of-way to maximize that queuing, distance.

S

um You know we're offering an additional lane and that's the best location that we.

S

Can have to maximize all these maximize the queuing and improve the operation of.

S

Solvent road and the traffic flow um so currently there's two southbound lanes.

S

On sullivan road there's one shared left through lane and one right turn lane we're improving that.

S

To three southbound sullivan road travel lanes a left, a left through and a right, so we're creating.

S

A new double turn lane onto maryland 140 and we verified um auto turn, which is like a it's.

S

A traffic simulation software for large vehicles and box trucks and passenger vehicles to make sure.

S

The double left turn would work what the state signal they requested us do that and it does.

S

um So we have exhibits that we presented to the state highway they have approved, so we.

S

Know that the double left turn will work with the constraints and the geometrics on maryland. 140.

S

um And, as you know, john and mark has have said, the state highway has approve the locations of.

S

This they've approved the auto turn layout. There dave, they're, okay and have you know, backed our.

S

Improvements to maryland 140 at sullivan road um within the state right-of-way, um so they've.

S

Looked at this, you know over the past couple years um very thoroughly and we've done a lot of.

S

Concept plans and gave them feedback on what they asked for and incorporated that into our design.

S

So northbound sullivan road- we there is currently one northbound road or travel lane. It's a 12 foot.

S

Lane, with a six foot, shoulder um we're creating an additional bypass lane for through vehicles to use.

S

If a vehicle is waiting to make a left turn into sheets, so I'll get into the the queuing a little.

S

Bit later in the 95th percentile, and that um just to try and illustrate that a little bit more than.

S

What john is you know expressed, but basically what it? What this means is that, if there's a if.

S

There's a left turning car waiting to get into sheets there's a way for through traffic to get.

S

Around them, it's not going to back up to maryland for you at the state road, we provided a kind of.

S

An exit point to get around and and not have that potential of people blocking back to 140.

S

And really, it just happens at the end of the cycle length anyway, and it not for very long. But this is.

S

Just something that we wanted to do to maximize this section of roadway and provide that you know.

S

The extra measure to not have a safety concern blocking back to maryland, 140, which exists today.

S

So another thing the state highway required us or wanted us to do was there's a.

S

You can see on my illustration there's a a new mountable island. That's it.

S

The intersection of 140 and that's basically in place to prevent people that are in the right.

S

Turn lane heading southbound sullivan road from going through the intersection. It's more like a.

S

Physical, you know barrier to help prevent them from going through and there's that's in place.

S

Today for the right turn lane, so the state highway wanted us to keep that in place. So we are.

S

We're also installing a new traffic signal pole along maryland 140 in the median and.

S

That's because our obviously our lane, alignment on sullivan road is shifting and we want to make.

S

Sure that the lane use signs align properly with the new lean locations so we're putting in a brand.

S

New pole, you know we'll put in new traffic signal heads for that any equipment or wiring required.

S

And make sure that these lane use signs line up with the lanes that we are proposing.

S

So there is a existing tree line along the north side of the property on sullivan road.

S

Between the residential driveway and this, the existing commercial sites.

S

um And one of the comments has come up from. I know. Engineering has been sight distance so.

S

Currently, the the site, those trees block sight lines out there today, with our with.

S

Our improvements will, be, you know, trimming the ones closest to sullivan road back.

S

And putting in new landscaping, along with landscaping across the entire site itself,.

S

um The the county, right-of-way there's several residential properties um data bought this and.

S

Their driveways back to sullivan road, um so the county right-of-way comes. Maybe a third of the.

S

Way up their driveways, um so you know making that makes sight distance a little bit more manageable.

S

From a county standpoint to make sure that it doesn't obstruct people, maybe looking left out.

S

To turn right onto solventor to make sure they can see safely, so our proposed stopping site distance.

S

um Along sullivan, road coming out falls within the county right of way not on private properties. So.

S

It can be maintained, and we realize you know with there are several driveways to the north.

S

um That, if a vehicle you know was parked in one of these at one time it could possibly obstruct.

S

Slight distance, but we will present all the site distance information. You know work with.

S

Engineering on providing those exhibits that they requested on the last review.

S

um But we realize that the residential driveways there do- you know they present.

S

A challenge, but we feel that having the stopping slight distance within.

S

The county right of way, you know, provides that baseline safety um addresses the safety concern.

S

And now the the queuing exhibits so.

S

I also mark, if you want to just flip those, but I gave you guys each um three exhibits. There's.

S

An existing am a background, am, and a future am and am is the as we talked about is the most.

S

Significant killing that's out there, so we, this is the worst case from a peak hour standpoint.

S

And I know we don't have numbers on there, so I'm gonna just give you guys lengths right now for.

S

Existing background in the future, so you can kind of relate to what the distances are so.

S

Our site access point is about 235 feet um from the stop bar at maryland140, so under existing.

S

Am the average q is 203 feet? The 95th percentile q is 361 feet, backgrounds am average. Q is 238 feet.

S

95Th percentile q is 415 feet so future. What I did is that we have there's two marks on there.

S

Because there's two lanes now for left turns but I'll just give you an average.

S

um So am average q is 142 feet and 95th percentile q is 249 feet. So, if you're, comparing that to.

S

Background in the average queue and background is 238 feet. Future with improvements is 142 feet.

S

That's a pretty significant drop and q length and 95th percentile q and background is 415 feet.

S

Future with improvements is 249 feet. What's the uh average length.

G

Of a car you know put that in 20 feet of cars. Am I going to have in front of.

G

25 versus now I'll use 25 yeah 25 to be conservative but yeah 2025.. Thank you.

S

So just I mean I think the illustration is put into perspective a lot more than the numbers.

S

Just to see those marks on there to see where it comes back and we realize that you know the 235.

S

Foot access point location is not as long as the 249 foot future 95th percentile queue by.

S

You know less than 15 feet or so, but you know once again we maximize the cue that.

S

We can provide with our site access location on the lower side of our property. We feel like.

S

um You know this is a. This is a. This is a scenario where that the 95th percentile queue doesn't.

S

It doesn't occur very often, and I I have a I just want to do a quick couple sentences. I won't go on.

S

Too much longer about this, but just about the 95th percentile cue and explain that a little.

S

Bit more, but so the 95th percentile q. This percent basically means you know what percent.

S

Of the time is the queue at that amount or that length, so average is 50 right. 50 percent of time.

S

It's less than that, 50 of the time it's more than that, so this is 95th percent. That means.

S

95 of the time you go out there, this is going to be less than that mark. So since there's a.

S

Traffic signal 182nd length, you know it's, it's only going to occur when right before.

S

The sullivan road approach turns green, so it's only going to be to that that max 95th percent q.

S

You know for probably five or ten seconds at the most and that's not even going to happen.

S

Every signal cycle, and even if it does happen, we have a bypass lane for people to get around them.

S

So I just think that a lot of these exhibits are it's deceiving to see all these cars stacked like.

S

That, because it's a very it's not going to be presented like that most time most time, it's.

S

Just going to be open and people will be able to, you know, navigate in and out of our site.

S

G

Is that 180 seconds signal length? Is that what is.

G

That's existing or is that future we keep it the same same yes,.

S

Yeah- and I just once again just want to illustrate that we realize there's constraints on sullivan.

S

Road we've maximized the road with there's, you know to the east side: there's utility poles.

S

There's property lines we realize han road. Is there existing edition we're trying to provide.

S

You know reduce the queue as much as possible to improve the flow on all all roads in this area.

S

um And I think that's those are the points I really wanted to hit on.

S

um So I think that concludes my so the way I envision this kind of going beef, yeah.

A

um Mr maguire, do you have anything else you wanted to ask? I just want to say that.

P

Concludes our presentation. We do have obviously the speakers available to answer questions. We have.

P

Some engineering support people that I introduced earlier if they're engineering type questions and.

P

We have people from sheets organization if you have any questions for them, so I think from a.

A

Process standpoint, maybe I think laura you wanted to make some some concluding comments and then.

A

Maybe we could have an opportunity to ask after her concluding comments, any questions we have of.

A

The county or of sheets and then after um we do that, then we'll open it up to the community to.

A

Ask questions, I'm not ask questions, you don't get to ask questions, you get to make comments.

A

um And we'll open it up for you all to make comments. I know we're limited on time.

Q

Yeah um so laura, why don't I turn it over to you then, to go ahead and make your conclusion. I will.

J

Be super short um just one clarification. We do do a check for adequacy of public.

J

Facilities so certification of the adequacy of public but for site plans, which we do.

J

Mention to you and that's in chapter 155.: it is not in chapter 156. So just to note.

J

um And I just wanted to conclude with a reminder that there is no action being requested of you.

J

Today and that concept site development plan, which would be inclusive of the site layout,.

J

Anything we've talked about that that gets modified, not modified right. It's the entire.

J

Site plus, in this case, the traffic mitigation measures that just needs to be advanced through.

J

The technical development plan review process and then it will come before you as a concept.

J

Plan for informational purposes and then it will go through that final plan stage and come back.

J

Before you for an approval, so those those are the the next steps. If you will so just a reminder.

J

No action is being requested today and we staff were looking for a concept plan review. Thank you.

A

So um so I think what we'll do, like I said, is I'm sure, we'll all have lots of questions and.

A

We'll pose those, we will turn it over to you all public to make comments on this.

A

um And typically, I start just because I have the center seat and I have the microphone and you.

A

All are kind enough to. Let me do that. The high level- I guess mr mcguire, getting to your point.

A

um I sort of see this as plan you're, presenting as it relates to traffic.

A

And I get and I appreciate the point you're making you're asking us to focus mostly on.

A

The traffic you understand there are other things that would be addressed in a site.

A

In a site plan in the normal normal course, but from your perspective from sheetz's perspective,.

A

If the traffic doesn't work, then the plan won't work and that's why you want us focusing on the.

A

Traffic stuff: first, because it has a timing impact and it has a financial impact and am.

A

I getting that mostly right. Absolutely, I must have done a pretty good job. You did a very good.

P

Job yeah everyone did um and then to my way of thinking, the question is: is: is the traffic.

A

Plan you're submitting for for us to talk about today in the special report. Is it the best you.

A

Can do and is it good enough, and what I hear you saying is this is the best you can do you.

A

Can't do any better! That's exactly am I getting that right? Yes, okay, and if it's not good enough.

A

Then the development for sheets at this location probably doesn't work. That's just the economic.

A

Reality of the circumstance is my understanding right on that too correct. Okay, I just want to.

A

Make sure I've got my starting points right as I, um as I ask questions, um and I think you.

A

Know we may have to take a recess to get some legal advice on some procedures and things.

A

um Around this, um but I think it helps to understand the concerns and and what you're.

A

Trying to address and how you're trying to um allocate some scarce resources as.

A

The process either moves forward, or it doesn't so. I think that's helpful to me.

A

From a queuing standpoint, let me just get to the to the traffic stuff um on on the queuing future.

A

Exhibit that you gave us yes, um the one thing I and I might have missed it, just the concern.

A

I have, though, is when you're going north so you're on 140. You take a right on sullivan road.

A

And you want to turn then left into sheets. There's a left turn lane there under under your plan,.

A

um That left turn lane doesn't seem to be terribly long and I'm not sure how many cars.

A

It can accommodate what happens if you end up with cars queuing up where they're backing up close to.

A

140 or onto 140, so that the right term I mean the people can't get by on the race. Let me clarify.

S

That that's so it's it's really a bypass lane. It's not a left turn lane, so we just did the left turn.

S

To be kind of clear for the the commission that it's used as a turn lane, but really what it a.

S

Bypass lane isn't marked as a left turn late at all. It's really just you have two lanes. You know.

S

They're, on this case, one's 10 foot one's 10.5 feet for the bypass, because it's up against the curb.

S

We wanted to make a little bit bigger. um The the one that has a left is really. It says, through lane.

S

It's not going to be have a left turn in and that's what's going to be the three-lane. You know.

S

Most of the time, the only time people are going to use this extra lane to the side of it is when.

S

There's a left turn in the through lane trying to make a turn and I'm sure, you've seen bypass lanes.

S

Before they just they bump out, and they come back and it's really just to allow through traffic to.

S

Get around the turning movement, so it won't be signed as a left turn lane at all. You know it's.

S

Going to be a through lane, the only time it's going to really the bypassing is really going.

S

To be used is when there's a left turn lane, that's trying to turn into sheets, and why is that better.

A

Than having it designated as a left turn lane into sheets uh well bypass lanes.

S

um There's less tapers and stuff from a design standpoint you can, you don't have to have.

S

um The lane ships be as as great um oftentimes when there's lower.

S

Volumes that aren't warranted really for left turn lanes. You can do bypass lanes.

S

um And also in this, like, you really need to shift through traffic like a full lane to get.

S

Them properly tapered for a for a full lane shift, and in this case you know, with the digging strain.

S

Of having 140 right there, it would be difficult and the roy rogers to to shift in that distance.

S

That quickly safely, so the bypass sling was just a better design option here. For all those reasons,.

A

Because the I mean just in my everyday life of driving a car yeah, I've been in situations where.

A

Two or three cars ahead of me is turning left into a shopping center yeah the car behind it.

A

Didn't realize they were turning left so now, they're sitting there waiting. I am thinking I.

A

Don't want to oh, I do want to turn left so now. I can't tell that the car in front of me is sitting.

A

Where it's sitting so now I decide I'm going to go around it only to find out two cars ahead of me.

A

They're turning left, I know I can't get over where I want to go. If the lane had been designated as a.

A

Left turn lane. I would have known that everybody's sitting in that lane had committed to turn left or.

A

At least they're supposed to- and you can see from the geometry like if you're coming on the plan.

S

um From 140, you know what, after roy rogers, it kind of opens up and gets wire at han road. So.

S

You'd really have to create a brand new turn lane. In that short amount of distance and get.

S

All the through traffic down, which isn't really a safe scenario, to do that: okay! So we're really.

S

Just trying to keep the three-lane basically in line just provide in a in an alternate route for.

S

People to get around so it doesn't have a cue back to 140 and you know, have a safety concern.

S

From that regard, the um the only other thing I'll say and then I'll turn it over. I I'm not.

A

Really that troubled by the um the entrance on 140 that you've moved further west and closer to the.

A

Community pond, for a couple reasons, one is and I could be persuaded otherwise. Obviously I haven't.

A

Made up my mind, but just from what I've heard so far number one there aren't that many cars going.

A

Into the pond, I think it was 19 during. I think it was 14 and 19.. Okay, 14., okay! So not too many.

A

um Secondly, it's not that different than what we all encounter going, the other way on 140 up at.

A

The 140 shopping center, where there are multiple entrances, there's one lane and we certainly know.

A

To pay attention that, if somebody's moving in or turning into one of those entrances, somebody else.

A

Is coming out and accelerating I get that it's it'd be better not to have it this way, but.

A

But you have to deal with what's there um and so um I'm. I understand the concerns and I understand.

A

All the stuff that's been laid out about turning coming down sullivan road and then turning right.

A

Onto 140 and merging in and speeding up at the same time, somebody else is slowing down to turn.

A

Into um into sheets, but we already have that reality right now, when somebody's coming down.

A

Sullivan road, turning right on 140 and accelerating, and somebody else is moving.

A

Into the same lane to slow down to turn into the park, um it's just the way it is. We could close.

A

The park, but we decided not to do that because, on balance we think having a park is worthwhile and.

A

People can safely navigate that I didn't know. I know I think ms matthias gave us a statistic.

A

Said there were 33 accidents over a three-year period in this area, but I don't really have a.

A

A baseline I mean, is that a lot or is? Are we saying that looks really good compared to other.

A

Data, it's kind of a data point without any uh and I'm not being critical. But I'm just saying.

A

I don't sure by itself. I can't really weigh that too much, um and I said I said the last.

A

Thing, but this will really be the last thing um right now we have a property, that's sitting.

A

There that's, in my view, not being utilized to its highest and best use and the community.

A

Benefits when property is used to its highest and best use commercially and otherwise, and so.

A

um I just want to say I appreciate the efforts you've made wanted to get in front of us and.

A

Two to put together a plan that first does no harm to the intersection and, in fact, seems to have the.

A

um Potential to make it better so that you can have this property go to a higher and better use.

A

Now, from a community standpoint, would we rather it be a garden or you know something else? Maybe I.

A

Mean, but no matter what the use is, it involves these same set of issues at some level and.

A

um So we'll try to balance out those things. A big part of what we do is balancing interests.

A

um So with that I'll be quiet and janice I'll turn it over to you. um Yes, so the distance between the.

E

Entrance of of 140 and the pond road, how far is that? Let me I'll scale it for you, real, quick.

S

I always carry this thing around with me. It helps.

S

So we're about from the middle of the site. Access point is 120 feet from the the entry to the park.

E

And why wouldn't you move it back a little coming east? Yes, okay, we have to meet state clearance to.

S

200 feet from okay, the curt word tangent's in so I think we're at like 2 30 now and it's it's. I.

S

Mean it's going to be at the most 20 or 30 feet to the right, and that's it that's all we could do to.

S

Because the state doesn't want that weave like people turning right and left, they want to have.

S

Distance between the site, access for sheets- so that's why they have those standards. So we.

S

Wouldn't be able to move it even if they get the bare minimum of 200 would only be like another 20.

S

Feet or so you could move it to the right, so it's really to satisfy state highway, because it is the.

S

Road that they maintain, we have to meet that off, that um that 200 foot clearance from sullivan road.

E

All right, I'm good. Can I stick with that that section sure that 200 foot state highway.

G

um Mandate, you know whatever is: is that for the acceleration lane? Is that an acceleration lane.

G

Requirement or deceleration, it's literally just uh a distance from an access point standpoint.

S

From a where the curve ties into the the straight like the tangent section 140., so it's a distance.

S

You have to have for site access, it's just zap does get a little screwy up there and I.

S

Think it's to prevent that shorter distance of people trying to weave in and out I took my 16.

G

Year old grandson for his first night driving um last night and we went up there, he survived.

G

I almost didn't so it is a little goofy up there, especially when you get past uh you.

G

Know with 31 and all that kind of thing, because I had a couple others go ahead. Thank you. um The.

G

Han rude that jeff was talking about is that that um that right lane, that is a through lane.

G

Does that require any uh setback or movement onto that or widening or or I don't know if that's.

G

Personal property going nowhere yeah we're so we're not widing the road. There there's a.

S

We look, there's property lines to write up against there's an existing utility pole. That's.

S

A couple feet off the curb that it just that's why, once again from a constraint standpoint, we got as.

S

Much in this, this area, as we possibly could so the sight line, doesn't really change a lot coming out.

G

Of on road we're not changing the curb line at all. On that side, it's staying the way it is correct.

G

Where are the the uh the tank locations where the tractor trailer pulls in and loads, the gas.

S

It's uh if you look on the screen, it's the to the right these underground, those three circular or.

S

Oval shapes those are undergrounds right. Where do they fill them? Where does the tanker going.

G

To pull over and fill them right there on top or that little dash to the left of it or oh, okay, okay,.

G

G

Yeah, that was uh that was good for me. That's good! Thank you! Matt! Do you want it all right? um I've.

H

Just state a couple facts from the way I see it, I mean this property has been under contract since.

H

2020 with sheets to try to make something work, and so currently right now, we've had three auto.

H

Businesses, but at one time, as I remember the long building, I think was a napa way back when.

H

With quite a bit of traffic in and out of along with many other things, you had an exxon there.

H

That was a gas station and you had a convenience store behind it and it had two entrances off each.

H

Road with current road conditions- and I mean from my take it's vastly improving that intersection.

H

By adding a lane on either side, basically to help traffic move around, so I don't. You know once again.

H

I'm kind of like these guys at the exit entrance off of 140 is a little concerning. I know state.

H

Highway has their standards, but currently right now, there's two entrances out on that side and I.

H

The second one's right at 200 feet or close to it, but the first one's not even 100 feet currently so.

H

We don't have much say in that: no on state highway. So that's all right, I'll I'll echo.

C

That- and I know it may be disconcerting to some of the citizens here who live off sullivan, but I.

C

See this as an improvement to what has been there and what is there, um but my my issues.

C

When I read when I saw the emails coming through and read, those were for the the neighbors close.

C

By and immediately adjacent to this property, you know how that screening was going to be handled.

C

um And then the traffic, those were the two issues that I thought coming in here.

C

um You know I wanted to hear more about and I would like to to just hear someone say.

C

Or or there to be a a meeting of the minds, whether it's from the county, the the city of westminster,.

C

And u.s traffic engineers, and maybe even the state that this is the best we can do and I'll say it.

C

I I would think that anytime, we can eliminate a curb cut on a on a highway where traffic's going.

C

I wasn't the speed limit there: 40 45, 45, okay, it's 30., 25 30.. That's the speed limit. Okay,.

C

So anytime we can eliminate a curb cut and I'll just confess. I don't think I go 25 through there.

C

um uh That you know confession is good for the soul um anyway. I I I'm thinking if we could.

C

Eliminate a curb, a curb cut on 140. It would be a good thing so, but then it's very unconventional.

C

To be pulling into a park to get gas and visit, the convenience store, you've basically gone.

C

Past the entrance I get that I get that it's unconventional, but again I think I would think.

C

That would be an improvement, but I would love to hear from the state from from from from the.

C

Experts that no this is the best one. This is the best for everybody. If this is the best, we can do.

C

It's the best, but I would I would have thought, and you addressed it.

C

um I would have thought that combining those two drives would have made things slightly better.

C

um But again I'll I'll defer to the experts on that yeah and just so speed limits. I got.

S

These written down so maryland 140 is 45 mile an hour. Posted uh sullivan road is 35 mile an hour.

S

Posted yeah, I'm I'm, I think, I'm going probably 50 right through there. You know personally so.

P

um No, no, I know I think yeah that's good, but but I'm just saying I I don't think I'm the exception.

C

And and when you're coming through there, like that and you've got four lanes coming down to three.

C

um Which is basically what's happening just after this, and that's not y'all's fault. That's just the.

C

Design there's a lot going on there and if we could eliminate a curb cut, I would have thought.

C

It would have been a positive, but again I see this as a as an improvement to what's there now.

F

One of the good things about going last is is pretty much. Everybody brings everything up. I.

F

Don't have much more to add, um but yeah I mean I I do agree. There's there's just a lot going.

F

On there with 97 the park and obviously the different businesses, um I mean from a traffic.

F

Standpoint with all the different lanes or the addition of the lanes, I definitely think it will.

F

uh It can't make it any worse there I'd like to think and obviously too, from an uh aesthetic.

F

Standpoint personally, I think that this is definitely going to be much more visually.

F

Appealing than what is currently there now, which essentially is three abandoned buildings, um but.

F

Yeah, that's really it. I mean everybody pretty much hit on anything else that I could have brought up.

A

Very good well, thank you. um So, at this point, what we'd like to do is uh open it up for public.

A

Comment, let me remind you of a couple things real, quick one. Is we have a hard stop at 12.

A

O'clock, so we just have to stop, then no matter what so, I think, I'm going to try to impose the.

A

The three-minute uh limit, if we can so we can give everybody a chance to have an equal, say.

A

um We probably are going to want to take a recess to get some legal advice, so we want.

A

To have time for that, and um I would ask you to be respectful in your comments to us and to your.

A

Other members in the community, because we we like to hear a diverse.

A

Comments, and it actually helps us if people will disagree with each other respectfully.

A

To give us a broader perspective of the issues that we're hearing so with that, mr.

A

Huff, I see you standing at the microphone so please proceed. Thank you very much.

T

um I'm dan hop I'm with the city of westminster, I'm on common common council city council.

T

um And just to kind of give you a little bit of a historical perspective with the city, because it's.

T

Kind of odd westminster city is odd. From this standpoint, we 've got about 20 000 citizens, but.

T

We have 40 000 in our water sewer area, so this is why this property is being annexed into the.

T

City, it's on our water sewer area, but it's not technically within the city. But it's right on.

T

The boundaries and obviously we want it to be part of the city, um and I would say if it was part of.

T

The city- we would not be here today because we'd be before the westminster planning and.

T

Zoning commission, but as part of the annexation agreement, it was agreed upon that it would come to.

T

You all as part of this process and then once the plan is approved, then it would come into the city.

T

So I just want to state for the record that the city of westminster is supportive of this.

T

Property being annexed into the city um and no offense to the property owner, I know some of you.

T

Know me I'm very blunt and straightforward, but the the this property is currently a.

T

Hodgepodge mass, you have three buildings, you have three different uses, it is a mess.

T

The fact is that this redevelopment project will make this site much more aesthetically, attractive.

T

And, in my humble opinion, better in the long run for the community, because I'm getting rid of.

T

Three uses with a total mess of. What's going on with all these massive curb curbs in and out all.

T

Over the place and making a much more defined site- um and I'm not a traffic engineer but as.

T

Some of you remember, I used to be in your shoes uh before I was elected to westminster city council.

T

um The cold hard reality is, this is a redevelopment project and when you're doing a.

T

Redevelopment project- you cannot reach perfection and having reviewed the traffic study myself and.

T

Listened to everybody here today, the reality is the applicant is making the situation better.

T

And I think that's critical to what we're analyzing here. So I encourage you all to.

T

Support this redevelopment project do not let the perfect be the enemy of the good. Thank you.

A

Thank you, mr huff, who would like to speak next, please step up to the microphone. If you can.

A

And all we need you to do is state your name and address, and then we welcome your comment.

A

My name is joel dyer, I'm a resident of 17 sullivan road, three doors down from han.

U

Road and it's going to be directly affected by this change. My major concern is not the business.

U

My major concern is the traffic that they're presenting the ideas that have been presented.

U

Are going to greatly affect myself I'll include my neighbors, although I only speak for myself.

U

um Sullivan road is also already being heavily used. There's been a lot of residential building.

U

Behind us, I'm all in favor of that I mean not yes, my own favor of that.

U

But the way that they have this planned right now, where I live, it's going to affect the quality.

U

Of my life- and I feel that that's something that has to be addressed as this project goes forward.

U

They've never set in my driveway and waded through three traffic signals to get out.

U

Because there's not a lot of people who respect where we live and their efforts to get onto 140.

U

Excuse me, I'm nervous, that's! Okay, take your time the um the net impact is going to be that.

U

We are going to be affected directly. The residents right there, sullivan road is not.

U

It's an improved road, it has no shoulders, there's no escape to get out of there.

U

There's no place to for anybody to move in the event of an emergency and there's also on this. The.

U

What the drawings that I saw a proposed increase of the speed limit from 35 to 45 on sullivan road.

U

People don't go 35 now, and I know that the county has done some enforcement back there, but not.

U

Enough to stop it, we don't need more speeding traffic, we don't need people who have been.

U

Frustrated now trying to make the turn into sheets where it's going to be to come. Zooming by my house.

U

Blowing off their steam that that's just not, it will hurt my quality of life.

U

um With all these learned, people who have spoken about traffic and the times that they.

U

Whatever times they did, their studies.

U

The the fact that people are, they always said that to 10 people are making the turn into the existing.

U

Properties there um again those three properties- none of them- are viable businesses right now,.

U

Cables doesn't do anything there. The exxon's closed. The vitalis is closed. That is really.

U

um Not a good representation of the traffic that's going there and that in the fact that they're.

U

Going to take some neighbors properties is just unacceptable to us as residents, and I feel that.

U

As a 17-year resident of that home, I would like my thoughts to be um reviewed with some respect. Thank.

U

You thank you by the way. Just so you know, we've all of us have read all of your comments that have.

A

Been submitted in writing so we have the benefit of those as well. Would anyone else like to speak.

A

I'm not yes, ma'am.

V

Chairman and committee board members, my name is cheryl dougal. I live at 9, sullivan road.

V

In westminster, we have lived at that house for almost 39 years as of august of this this summer,.

V

And we are really greatly concerned about the traffic.

V

No offense, it is a hot mess right now and adding those lanes and turning into the.

V

Sheets is going to pose even more chaos and more car accidents and more people getting.

V

Hurt we have people that walk their dogs that go out with their kids to play in their lawns and in.

V

Their yards and the proposal is that they're going to take half of our lawn and move our.

V

Beautiful cherry trees out so that they can make that turn lane to get around, and then I just I.

V

Just see it making more of a hassle and more of a problem and more car accidents when you're coming.

V

Off 140 and people are going 50 55 miles an hour. They hightail it like down that road. The.

V

Same speed, they don't even go the speed limit and, if you're going to propose that they raise that.

V

And you've got kids that are being outside and waiting for the bus. This proposed time is not just.

V

Certain times of the day, this road is busy and now that we've added homes and neighborhoods behind us.

V

It has grown exponentially um sorry. I just made a couple of notes. Sure.

V

We're concerned also about our property value, as this sheets comes in what will happen to.

V

Our property value some of the people if they decide to move and they're taking part of their.

V

Driveway they will not be able to park their vehicles, their houses will not be able to sell.

V

And they will be stuck. I don't think that that's a viable option and that's certainly not fair.

V

We have lived in this community for, like I said, for almost 39 years, we have loved living here. We.

V

Have felt safe, we have felt protected, we have had police and ambulances with that area. That.

V

Has just caused so many accidents and they've been so kind. There were a couple of accidents.

V

That came and almost hit our house, they jumped the fencing they jumped the flower bed of the.

V

Bushes, that were there and because our house was sloped, it almost came and hit our brick in.

V

Our garage, and that would be even more of an impact and hitting our house if they removed.

V

That we'd have to do some kind of retaining wall, because our houses sloped they're, on the corner.

V

I mow our lawns. I take pride in our in our neighborhood in our community, we're the edge.

V

Of what we live and what we have loved, we can't even mow our lawn on the side of han road without.

V

Feeling like we're going to be hit by a car with either our running lawnmower or our push mower.

V

And my sister goes out to work every day and even my dad and I when we travel, we have to.

V

Sit and wait for the traffic to bypass to get off of celerone sullivan road and han road.

V

Without a light there of any kind, it has been dangerous and we have felt unsafe.

V

I I love, I don't want to move, I love our property. I love the area that we live in. I love our.

V

Neighbors, I love this community feeling that we have and to feel like it's being stripped away. I'm.

V

Having a hard time with that, I don't I don't mind sheets, I've used them down off of sullivan road.

V

But there's a huge one right off of um one for not sullivan 140, and that is a great big property.

V

That's sheath has gotten into there's one off of tawny town as you're, going into tawny, town.

V

And there's one going off of 20 uh 30 going into our 27 going into 30 right there in manchester.

V

I think they have more apple spaces of using those gas stations. I think the thing that we need less.

V

Of is gas stations and banks, in my personal opinion, let me let me ask you, since we're.

A

Running out of time to go ahead and just give us your your concluding remarks, if you don't mind so.

A

We can give others a chance as well sure I I love our community. I just hope that we can address that.

V

If it was your property being taken, and if it was your area in your neighborhood that you.

V

Lived in, I hope that you would want to feel safe for your kids to play and meet on the bus. Stop.

V

Without feeling like they were going to get hurt and even worse, causing a bigger accident.

V

And I just hope that you guys keep that in mind. Thank you. Thank you.

A

Are there is anyone else who would like to speak? Yes, sir,.

W

Hi sean larkin for sullivan road- I just want to chime. In with the city, uh I've known the property.

W

Owner for quite some time over 20 some years- and I know it's been a dream of his to open and brighten.

W

And bring the gateway into westminster, and I upload sheets for coming in and wanting to do.

W

That for the city and for the county has been a nice war and we've been working on that for.

W

Quite some time sheets want to come in here I know their corporation. They built it from.

W

Within they bring a lot of commitment for them to want to dig in their pockets to want to widen.

W

And improve the intersection. I applaud them for doing that. Also as a businessman in the community.

W

Not everyone's willing to do that, it takes a lot of money. It takes a lot of courage and I.

W

Applaud them for wanting to help westminster to help carroll county in this process, they bring a.

W

Lot of commitment, they bring a lot of people that understand an intersection of this magnitude.

W

We all know we've heard of what's going on with this intersection. I've seen it firsthand.

W

I've listened to them today uh the knowledge that they bring to expand and make this intersection.

W

A lot safer and a lot better, I've been very impressed with, um and I think that moving forward.

W

In the county, I think these guys are going to do a good job for us. Thank you for today. Thank you, sir.

A

Would anyone else like to offer any comments? Yes, ma'am.

X

I'm karen dyer and I live at 17 sullivan road, and I agree with what my husband says. It takes.

X

Forever to get out of our driveway, but I do have a concern about han road and it's been a concern of.

X

Mine since I've lived here, there's been so many accidents, so many near-misses of people because.

X

The majority of them are turning left they're, not turning right and you're. Going to put this like.

X

Lane here, where you want people to kind of stand to be ready to turn into the sheets, so instead of.

X

Now, going across two lanes of traffic they're going to be going across five lanes of traffic.

X

I kind of have a hard time trying to understand how that's an improvement.

X

So you know my suggestion would be and I'm you know maybe it's just out of my purview to say.

X

This, if you're going to do that, you make it a right turn only lane, don't let people there's.

X

Been so many accidents at that intersection just trying to get across the traffic and it you know.

X

The queuing line- I laugh about that, because that queuing line can go all the way down the road.

X

Past the turn and the roundabout in the morning, particularly when you've got school buses.

X

So picking like one little hour to look at it, I hope you did more than just one.

X

Hour, because there are times you can't get out anywhere along there for 10-15 minutes.

X

So, thank you very much. Thank you ma'am. Would anyone else like to speak.

A

Y

How you doing today, my name is earl bloomer. I live at 14a sullivan road, uh which I also.

Y

Wanted to address was you guys have for the cables car company at 14, sullivan me and my.

Y

Neighbor are 14, I don't know where the confusion has come on the mapquest and everything else.

Y

um But uh she brought up a lot of the concern about with the reason to speed limit uh speed.

Y

Limit and with having to cross the from like a left-hand turn on han road it. I feel it is going.

Y

To cause a lot more problems, because most of the accidents that I have seen is everybody trying to.

Y

Make a left to go across all the lanes to make a right onto 140. and also with the raising the.

Y

Speed limits, we have school buses that stop in front of our house and two days ago me and my.

Y

Neighbor were standing outside talking about this meeting and was two or three cars, while one of the.

Y

Children were getting off the bus now at the speed limit it sped past as they were stopped the school.

Y

Bus was blaring the horn and trying to make them stop didn't do anything, so I feel with reasonably.

Y

Speed limited in that area, it's going to make a lot more difficult and potentially scary for.

Y

Us as parents with the kids crossing the street, if nobody, if everybody's on a hurry to go faster,.

Y

But that's that and like everybody's talked about with the dressing with widening the.

Y

Roads, it looks the original drawings on the paper it showed, with expanding in front of the houses.

Y

I'm not 100 sure on some of the drawings I see here today. I don't see that.

Y

But I understand the add to turn lanes to make a left next to the sheets and all might help.

Y

But it's going to cause a lot more problems with the han road exit for making a left, because.

Y

The biggest thing is trying to get across that street and there's a lot of cars that use in that.

Y

Neighborhood that come out that way to go to 140 to make a right in the neighborhood. But that is.

Y

All I have thank you. Thank you, sir hey jeff. Can I ask for a quick. uh We haven't seen anything about.

H

Raising the speed limit is that something that's in the plans by the county: we're not champions.

U

Let me just let me ask mr murphy: why don't we get this point of.

A

Information clarified, there are no changes in speed limits proposed.

S

Design speed isn't supposed to that's just based on engineering calculations for 85th percentile.

S

Speed, so that's how you design and checks like distance measures. So that's a calculation. You do.

A

For design correct reasons, but it's not you're not actually changing you're, not changing the.

S

Speed limit corrected, spielen is 35 on sullivan road. Staying that way. Okay, I I have a question the.

E

um How much road frontage are? Are they losing someone hun? No we're not taking any frontage.

S

Correct john, no, no other property owner is losing any uh of their property. The the anthony property.

P

That the subject property is losing about three and a half feet. It still needs to be.

P

Surveyed to be more precise, but for the entire stretch of their sullivan road frontage, okay,.

A

Would anyone else like to by the way coming today, one of the benefits is we can clarify some of.

A

These things, which is always helpful, I think, would anyone else like to offer any comments.

A

We have two so uh yes, sir there's patrick d, anthony at 3711, hawks hill in new windsor.

Z

One thing I was thinking about is obviously, with the property owner giving up uh three and a half.

Z

Feet and being able to add a third lane if this weren't to go through and the county had.

Z

To address this later, they would not have the third lane and would only be two lanes correct.

Z

So they're stacking in the queuing would go back solvent farther in the future. Just.

Z

Thinking about it again, if this weren't to happen, you put three high volume tenants in there and.

Z

You're going to jam up that intersection with traffic anyway. Obviously, two entry exit points.

Z

On both sides, the county will only have two lanes to work with instead of three.

Z

And that you know spreading that out to help the queuing so I'll, just notice that that this.

Z

Long term would be very beneficial. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Yes ma'am.

B

Michelle smith 102 han, I'm here to speak on behalf of the neighbors. I know what their.

B

Concerns are, and I've been listening to them for the past week or so before. The meeting.

B

There is a lot of traffic concerns not just related to sheets, but in general, at this.

B

Intersection, of course, you've heard the statistics presented on the accidents, but there is a lot of.

B

Concern about what you just heard from mr bloomer about the children involved. Also the egress in and.

B

Access into the park area there's plenty of people that use the park, lots of families with children. I.

B

Go there regularly. I also have to make a left turn in order to get a right turn onto 140 to.

B

Access points that are 31 and beyond up towards tawny, town and out 15 up to gettysburg. So I do.

B

Use that area, but we have a lot of people that make a left turn onto sullivan and they will be.

B

Doing that to access the sheets, but they also make an immediate right on the han and they.

B

Plow upon road, the speed limit is posted at 30, but because they are coming up a hill as.

B

Well, they are going much faster, so we have a lot of concerns just like they mentioned about.

B

Mowing lawns and such same with me, I actually mow my own lawn. I also wanted to ask about. I.

B

Don't mind having the sheets there. That's not my concern, but I'm concerned about 24 7 operation.

B

The lighting that they might put up that would impact others, the noise levels and the screening.

B

So I think that's just so. You know that would be that will be dealt with in the binary course, but.

B

I wanted to also put that out as my comment that I'm not only concerned about traffic.

B

Patterns and the the safety and health of others sure that's very concerning. Thank you. Thank you.

A

Would anyone else like to offer comments? Yes, sir,.

AA

14 sullivan road- I just wanted to compliment your engineer. He did have one thing perfect to say: 140.

AA

Is high speed um I did happen to go down 140 the other night with a friend the average speed is.

AA

About 65 to 70 miles an hour on that road, it's going to be very hard getting into not only.

AA

Sheets but trying to turn into sullivan road, so I just wanted to throw that out. Net hahn road just.

AA

Piggyback and that han road is is awful trying to make that left hand turn. I know I've seen.

AA

Several misses seen a few small. You know fender benders at that intersection there. So that's.

AA

All I wanted to add to it. So thank you. Thank you, folks, yep. Thank you, sir. Any other comments. Yes, sir.

AB

My name is benjamin yingling. I live at 54, west green street westminster maryland.

AB

Former westminster city council, member former planning and zoning commission member former.

AB

Chair of economic development, when this first this project first came to the city.

AB

So I can't speak on behalf of the city. Now mr hoff did that, but we supported it then.

AB

I mean the bottom line is it is right now not the highest best use. We agree on that. um I.

AB

Think that it's clearly been demonstrated by the applicant it's going to improve the intersection.

AB

From a flow I mean, the intersection is failing all right, and one of the things I think too is it, is.

AB

A permitted use and drawing from my time on the play and zuni commission one of the things that.

AB

Applicants always came to me about is like we just want to know. We just want a decision to be made so.

AB

We can move on to the stuff like screening, you know um like, like lighting, you know the things.

AB

That could really have like daily impacts on the residences. So from a procedural standpoint,.

AB

I'm just I'm hoping and from what I think I at least I heard from the applicant and mr chair.

AB

You mentioned something about getting counsel on, you know, procedures, and I know the county is not.

AB

Saying you have to make a decision, but from my experience like I always liked to to at least.

AB

Make that decision so that the applicant can or won't move forward and that's in the benefit of.

AB

The applicant and frankly, the property owner, I'm a business owner. There are business owners.

AB

Sitting up here, uh I think that's fair to them. So uh that's my comments. Thank you. Thank you, sir.

A

Can you step to the microphone so they record this and they broadcast that we.

A

Want to make sure people at home can hear you.

AA

Texting with a friend of mine with the city police department and um with the old sheets that used to.

AA

Be at 304 main street, uh I think piggybacking on what some of the other folks said about safety.

AA

As well, I know sheets had a lot of um drugs and fighting issues. I think we're concerned about.

AA

That happening out our way as well, so I just wanted to add that on too. Thank you. Thank you.

A

Any other any other comments.

A

Seeing none um I I would like now to um you'll have to help me, mr alma, with the process, but I I.

A

Would like for us to be able to stand in recess to get some legal advice from you absolutely so.

L

We would just need a motion to close and then um a recorded vote on that motion to close the meeting.

L

And your the motion would be close to the meeting for legal advice. Okay, okay, so could I invite a.

A

Motion to close really with us I'll move that we closed. The meeting to obtain legal advice is.

C

There a second I'll second, okay, any discussion before we take a vote all right, all in favor.

A

All right anyone opposed or abstain. Then we will stand in recess to obtain legal advice.

A

And then we'll return to the deus after we yes and then reopen the meeting. Yes, okay, thank you.

A

Three minutes.

A

Foreign just take your seats.

A

All right, so at this point um the chair would be happy to entertain a motion to reopen the meeting.

A

Please please I'll make a motion to reopen the meeting. Oh the second motion and a second to.

A

Reopen the meeting all in favor all right, you want to opposed or abstaining. The motion is reopened.

A

At this point, um mr mcguire, you had asked us to take a more formal action.

A

um We don't believe we can, if we could we're not going to, but at the same time.

A

um We want to make clear to you and your clients, first of all, our appreciation for requesting a.

A

Special report, as I said at the beginning, this helps us this commission. It helps the community.

A

To better understand, what's going on and it's an additional step that you all are voluntarily.

A

Taken to better inform us and the community- and we appreciate that and I'm sure the community.

A

Appreciates that so, on behalf of the commission, thank you for that. um The other thing that we.

A

Want to convey to you is that, um and you've probably gathered this from our comments that.

A

When you, if you move forward with a concept plan, you're going to find the same favorable treatment,.

A

That you've, seen today from the commission regarding the traffic and the intersection.

A

um In terms of the work that you've put into this, in other words, this commission won't be pulling.

A

The rug out from under you on that aspect, but I hope you also understand- and you heard some of.

A

This from the community, the concept plan will be the concept plan and there's going to be.

A

um We'd ask you to diligently look at issues of screening and lighting and noise and all.

A

The other things that go into that, but on the issue of traffic, we appreciate what you've done.

A

And the comments that you've heard today would be comments. You will hear at the concept plan as well.

A

So that is what we have for today on this item.

P

Sherman, if I could ask, are you speaking for the entire planning commission? I am.

A

So, um thank you all very much and thank the public for your comments on this on this project.

A

um We will then move on to item 11 of our agenda, which is general public comment. I'm.

A

Not specifically related to this plan is there any general public comment.

A

Hearing none we'll move on to item 12, which is the adjournment. Is there a motion for a german.

A

Move return a second okay: we have a motion and a second all in favor.

A

Aye my opposed we stand adjourned. Thank you all very much.