Carroll County, MD Carroll County Planning and Zoning Commission, 2 Dec 2020

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From YouTube: Planning and Zoning Commission December 2, 2020

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https://www.carrollcountymd.gov/government/directory/planning/carroll-county-comprehensive-rezoning/

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Buddy, I'm going to call to order the december 2nd 2020 meeting of.

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The carroll county planning and zoning commission can we please establish our quora.

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Miss cheatwood here, mr hall, here mr cannelli here, mr wilders here.

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Commissioner rosting rothstein here secretary eisenberg here miss chair. Please let the record.

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Reflect that seven members are present and we do have a quorum. Thank you. Let's stand for the.

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Pledge of allegiance, I pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america and to the.

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Republic, for which it stands, one nation, under god, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

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Okay, so any changes to our agenda. No, there are no changes to the agenda.

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Can you all hear me yeah, I heard you thank you sure. I'm sorry, I've been having issues.

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All day today I apologize so can we get approval of the agenda? Please.

C

I'll make a motion for approval. My second.

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All in favor all right, hi, okay, we'll move on to our administrative report. Secretary eisenberg.

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Good evening, everyone thank you for being here on this beautiful december 2nd evening and I think.

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The wind chill and the cold outside is definitely telling us it's meteorological winter now for sure.

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um Just a few things to make you aware of tomorrow evening december 3rd at 7pm will be the virtual.

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Public hearing for the commercial industrial, employment campus by request properties, we have.

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So far about 25 speakers signed up for tomorrow, but obviously there's plenty of time for others.

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Wishing to comment on these rezoning requests tomorrow, then to follow that up on december, 8th.

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Which is next tuesday, beginning at 9? 00 a.m is a work session with the board of county.

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Commissioners, to have the beginning discussions of these properties that they've heard over the last.

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Several months and to start to discuss how decisions will be made as far as we buy.

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Request rezonings to move forward other than that. That's all I have for you this evening. Thank you.

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Okay, well we'll move on then to item number six.

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Our comprehensive rezoning residential code changes and that's the status update.

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So since we are also doing a parallel by request residential, we wanted to give you an update on the.

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Code change: this is with the commercial industrial employment campus. This time last year we have been.

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Making changes as well to the various residential districts, so that includes the r40 000. The r20.

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0000, the r10000 and the r7500. Much as again, we did with the commercial industrial employment campus.

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We reviewed the code, we made changes to the bulk requirements, setbacks looked at applicable uses.

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Within the various districts, we did not, though, add any new districts. We did not change the.

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Intent of the district, um so unlike the commercial industrial employment campus, where we added in a.

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New district, we kept all of our districts the same. We did not change any of the naming conventions so.

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Mary lane is here this evening to present to you what we've done and what we have left to complete.

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Prior to sending it to the planning commission, which again is our first step in the code, changes.

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You all will have an opportunity to review these um various changes to the zoning districts.

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And again, with keeping in mind the eye toward the freedom, 2018 was our guiding document.

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And the 2014 carroll county master plan were the two documents that we used to guide the changes.

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That were made to those districts. um So with that mary, um you can share your screen of control and.

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Can give her the presenter and she will go through the presentation with you. Thank you, mary. Thank you.

D

Okay, can you see my screen.

C

E

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Give me just a second I'm sorry, I do thank you.

E

For some reason I lost it, I don't know.

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Chris swim. Actually, if you can give me control, I can open the presentation.

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And um go through it for mayor, if you can give a presentation.

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Through the slide, I know my powerpoint went away um linda if you could just move the slides.

D

I could do it if you don't mind, do you have the presentation, no worries? Thank you.

A

But let me try a different way that that particular version had some issues hold on.

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Give me one second, um I apologize, I'm not sure exactly what happened when I tried to pull it up.

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Yeah yep I'm I can't that is corrupting me a minute, I'm getting it bye.

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I can't find the email that you sent me.

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I can't it's corrupt, that's what I was telling you yesterday. I cannot pull it up that way.

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Oh, I didn't know that okay.

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All right hold on so there's any implementation.

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Okay, we'll turn it off. Thank you.

F

Is jeff still with us.

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Yes, yes, right, um technical difficulties. We are back now.

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I apologize chris. If you can, let me share a screen. Thank you so much I apologize there. We go.

D

All right, okay, thank you um linda! Do you want to put it in this presentation mode? Thank you.

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um As linda said, we're here today to talk about our status on the residential text, modifications.

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You'll recall that about a year ago, the board of commissioners adopted the new code for the.

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Commercial, industrial and employment campus- and this was what was agreed to that- would follow.

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um What we'll talk about today is the process to date, where we've been in the last year. Basically.

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um A review of the proposed text changes not specifically, but just.

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In in a general sense, our next steps going forward and then any questions and answers that you have.

D

Okay, um some of this is going to be repetitive. This is actually a lot of the presentation that.

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We have been given to citizens as we've been working through this, but it's a good reminder.

D

So I'll go through some of this first of all, why are we amending the residential development codes.

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Basically, it is master plan, implementation from the 2014 carroll county master plan and the.

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Freedom plan as well, one of the recommendations in both of those plans was to amend the county.

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Zoning and subdivision regulations to facilitate the implementation of the plans.

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Also and you'll remember this from all of our other discussions, a comprehensive review.

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Is needed to modernize clarify and make consistent the development regulations in the county.

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Again, this is following what was done last year by the board of county commissioners.

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With the commercial industrial unemployment campus.

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A little bit of history, um we did begin work on the residential sections of the code in spring.

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2018 with assistance of a citizens, residential focus group, I think we had about nine members.

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Taking feedback from that group, we drafted revisions to the residential districts.

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Then the county concept- team you'll recall that is members of our department, land and resource.

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Management, the county attorney's office, the zoning administrator and economic development.

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We've expanded our public engagement by hosting in-person and virtual meetings that are open to.

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The public two in-person meetings were held in january and february before.

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Covid and we have held three virtual meetings in september through november.

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All along we've been posting updates on carol rezoning.org, which is a working copy.

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Of our draft changes, as well as all of our concept team meeting notes that we have held.

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Another just good reminder: what makes for a good zoning code. It has to be consistent with.

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Our adopted plans, it has to be the result of public involvement. It has to be understandable.

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Complete legal and usable and those are the tenets that we've been following, as we've moved forward.

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The first thing we attacked was the definitions. As you know, zoning codes.

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Are always evolving and they reflect the changes in technology, business and residential trends.

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It's important to keep our definitions current, and that is why that is the first thing that both for.

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Commercial and industrial and now for residential that we began with so all zoning codes include a.

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Definition section to specifically describe the terms, so their meetings are absolutely clear.

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We completed the definitions, which is section 158.002.

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We deleted obsolete and unnecessary definitions. We clarified some definitions.

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We made some of them consistent with other sections of the code, which.

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There were a number of them that were not, and then we relocated a lot of the requirements to.

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The more appropriate sections of the code, so I would say that we didn't make any wholesale.

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Changes to the definitions, but it was more of a tweaking of the problems with the definitions.

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Then we also completed rewriting the purposes of.

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The districts as linda stated, we did not create any new zoning districts.

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In line with the plan's recommendations, but we did make the existing districts purposes.

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Consistent with the land use definitions in the adopted plans- and there were some changes there.

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We completed looking at the principal uses again principal uses are the primary activities for.

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Which a site is used and you've seen this many times, but our current code lists those.

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Residential uses under each district, as with commercial and industrial.

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We created a new use table format for the residential districts. The major changes that.

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We made with residential districts are limiting multi-family senior housing and certain commercial.

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Uses in the residential districts and restricting certain community and recreational uses as well.

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So the first thing was the multi-family senior housing, and this has been talked about a lot.

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Throughout the process, in line with the new land use definitions in the adopted plans, multi-family.

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Senior housing will no longer be allowed in the r 20 000 district regarding commercial uses, medical.

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Dental clinics, funeral establishments and country ends are no longer permitted in residential.

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Districts um in both those cases we have written it, so those are the existing uses would be.

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Grandfathered and would not become non-conforming, at least for the multi-family senior housing. We're.

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Still working on the other ones and as far as community and recreational uses, some of them.

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Are currently permitted by right and we made some of them conditional uses because they have special.

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Aspects that need to be looked at more carefully, so a new thing that we've put in the code is.

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um The adopted freedom plan, land use definition for residential medium, which is the r20 district.

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States specifically that 55 plus age, restricted and retirement communities are permitted provided.

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They do not exceed the height restriction of the zoning district and, most importantly,.

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For us right now do not exceed a total density of 3.5 units per acre, which was why we no longer.

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Are recommending that multi-family be permitted, but while it no longer allows for age-restricted.

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Multi-Family in the r-20 district, a proposal for village senior housing was agreed to by the staff.

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At this point, which defines village senior housing as a separate use, it allows a mix of single-family.

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And attached units for senior housing not to exceed 3.5 units per acre as the plan states.

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And it has flexible bulk requirements that would be established by the planning commission.

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These are just several examples. You can see that if this was in one community in one of.

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The pictures you see it's just a single family detached unit um in the upper left-hand corner is.

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um Just two units and the other ones are multiple attached units, and this kind of combination could.

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Be put into one community and as long as the density did not exceed 3.5 dwelling units per acre.

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So the next thing that we looked at were the accessory uses and we've completed our look.

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At that again, accessory uses are uses that are secondary or customarily incidental to.

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The principal use on the property we created no new accessory uses, but we are recommending.

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That private kennels be eliminated from the zoning code as something that would be.

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Regulated as a zoning issue specific accessory uses include- and this is current and recommended.

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Antiques and arts and crafts sales accessory dwellings, beauty, shops, cottage industry, family.

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Day care home occupation and single professional office, we clarified expanded and relocated certain.

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Requirements from the definition section and added a few new requirements that um had been identified.

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As problems, but we didn't make real wholesale changes, it was mostly relocating a lot of these.

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Requirements from the definition section to a brand new section.

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We also looked at bulk requirements and again bulk requirements include front side and rear.

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Yard minimums and height maximums, and I won't read these definitions. These are the definitions from.

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The zoning code, but as we've done our webinars our public meetings, we have gone over this with the.

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Public, um so that there is a better understanding of this pretty technical part of the code.

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um Currently, these requirements are inconsistent among the four residential districts which.

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Sometimes they need to be, but at other times there's not really a reason and among the various.

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Uses the location of the bulk requirements in the code is very confusing. Each separate district has.

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Its own bulk requirements section, so we look to improve that and then some of the requirements.

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Are excessive which results in numerous variance requests to the zoning administrator and the vca.

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So we've completed looking at this and what we've decided is that they should.

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Now be located in one section: that's how we did it with the commercial and industrial.

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Districts, that's much easier to find, as well as putting it in a table such as you see before you.

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Which all the lot area requirements for each district would all be found.

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In one place and they'll be separate tables for for the different yards.

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And for height, but it still will all be in one section, and it will just be easier to read.

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Regarding the bulk requirement definitions, we didn't change any of them, but we did create a new.

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Definition for a corner front yard, which has been a confusing part of the code for.

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The zoning administrator and most citizens- and this is just like one example of an improvement.

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That we hope to be making to make everything more understandable and flow more easily. I would say.

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um Regarding accessory uses, this was another problem that was identified for bulk requirements.

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Accessory buildings are typically garages sheds and similar structures. um The current zoning code.

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States that accessory building should adhere shall adhere to minimum front and side yard requirements.

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That is for the principal structure, unless they're located totally in the rear yard, in which case.

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The side and rear setback should be a minimum of five feet. um What we found from the zoning.

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Administrator is there are numerous requests for variances from this five foot requirement.

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Our proposal is to reduce it from five feet to three feet for side and rear yards. I apologize.

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I should just say for rear yards um and variances will no longer be permitted for this requirement.

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This will streamline the process and provide more certainty for everyone involved.

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The last thing regarding bulk requirements and we've talked about this before, but we really are hoping to get this implemented. We are.

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Trying to find a way to include illustrations either within the code itself or an accompanying.

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Manual- and this is just one example of that- and most modern codes have that have this.

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And we feel this would be very important for all involved parties in dealing with our zoning code.

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Regarding chapter 155, which is the subdivision regulations.

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The only major change we are recommending is to the cluster regulations, and this is part of the.

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Presentation we gave to citizens- and there was a great deal of interest in this. So I'm sure when.

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We get it to you, you will be hearing about it from both the development community, as well as citizens.

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As you know, cluster development is a land development design tool that provides a means.

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Of preserving open space and the royal character of the land allowing development to be directed.

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Away from natural resources considered important, it allows for smaller lot sizes than typically.

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Permitted and concentrates dwelling units in a selected area. It allows a portion of the site's.

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Land area to be preserved in permanent, open space, it allows for design flexibility and it promotes.

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Recreational opportunities, the overall yield of the site remains the same as a conventional.

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Development, so it's currently permitted in the r40 r20 and r10 zoning districts. um This.

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Is just the current regulations that really talk about how um and you're all very familiar with it.

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Linda, I think we can skip this slide. This was really more intended for our public presentation.

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um This is an example that we did show to the citizens when we did this presentation.

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That shows, I think this is basically 16 units in each of these developments, but it shows at.

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Certain types of development, the advantages to a cluster development which is on the left.

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It shows more protection of the stream, more preservation of the forested areas.

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Of better views and less infrastructure that's required, so this was really a.

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An illustration that we use to show that cluster development can be advantageous to a community.

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The proposed changes that we are proposing.

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For clustering, we are not proposing any changes to the zoning districts where it's allowed.

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Or to the types of dwellings allowed single family only is still what we are recommending, um but the.

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Biggest change is to eliminate the requirement for submittal of a conventional development plan. The.

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Yield of the zoning district may not be exceeded on the development site, for example, in the r20.

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You could still not get more than two units per acre for the total site, but for the first time.

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We would be establishing a minimum lot size where there's currently no minimum lot size.

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So this is our proposal and this is what's been posted on the website. As far as our.

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Marked up versions of chapters 155 and 158 and you can see we're taking out the requirement.

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For a conventional plan to be submitted, but we are adding four minimum lot sizes of ten.

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Thousand square feet in the um I'm sorry: twenty thousand in the r40 10 000 in the r20 and 7500.

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In the our 10 000 district- and that is, that is for the first time that there would be that minimum.

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We also classifying these as our animal related issues, things that were brought to.

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Us by the zoning administrator that are current zoning enforcement issues, um we have removed.

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Private kennels from the zoning code altogether enforcement of dog related issues will no longer.

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Be handled as a zoning matter it'll be considered an animal control issue. Commercial kennels will.

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Now include all domestic animals, not only dogs, we're defining private stables and requiring.

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That they must be on a minimum of two acres in the residential districts. This will not affect.

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The ag districts we haven't even or ag district. We haven't even looked at that yet um there'll.

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Be specific limits to the number and types of animals allowed minimum setbacks from adjoining.

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Residential properties are imposed and we're clarifying the definition of commercial stables.

D

So these are our next steps linda. I don't know if you wanted to step in and talk about next steps or if you want me to do it, keep going I'll come in at the end.

A

Actually, if we can hold off on the next steps, okay back to some of your.

G

uh Comments to clarify the clustering uh and to make sure I'm clear on the clustering. What you're.

G

Saying is, clustering is allowed in r40, 20 or 10. However, the number of houses or dwellings does not.

G

Exceed the number that's allowed in r40, 20 or 10.. Is that right? So because I get a lot of comments.

G

Saying well, if we allow this, then you're going to allow clustering and it's going to.

G

Be double the amount of houses in that piece of property and that's not a true statement.

D

That is not a true statement, but I will say I know why you hear it. It is because eliminating the need.

D

For the conventional plan could, on specific sites with a lot of environmental constraints,.

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On a very on a specific site could result in more homes being built than would have been allowed.

D

On that site, but what is stated is in no case can it exceed what the zoning would allow.

D

So on a very constrained site if they had to show a conventional plan and because of all the.

D

Constraints they couldn't achieve that theoretical density. This would allow them to achieve the.

D

Theoretical density, as long as they didn't reduce the lot sizes below our new, very quiet lot, sizes.

G

So yeah, no, I I think, there's a understand of value in us being very clear about that, because there's.

G

A lot of misinformation regarding properties where they say: oh, if it's r20, then we're going.

G

To allow for clustering and it'll all be r10 and it'll be double the amount of homes that are gonna.

G

Be put into that piece of property, and what you told me that is that that is absolutely not true.

D

That is absolutely not true on the pro on the site as a whole, I think the other thing.

D

We hear sometimes is that it would appear to be higher density, because part of the site is being.

D

Developed and then the rest to it, I mean to the advantage of the property owners there. They have.

D

Recreational areas and open space, but if you're only looking at the part of the site that was.

D

Developed it could appear more dense, but that's not what the definition of density is. It would.

D

Be for the whole site and it could not exceed the theoretical density of the zoning category.

D

Okay, that that's just a very important point, because I'm hearing it a lot.

G

uh And you know that and we're all hearing it a lot lately. So, okay, thanks.

D

So our next steps are, we are almost finished, completing our draft of the.

D

Residential text revisions with input from our webinars and other outreach efforts.

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We plan on bringing our recommendations to you, the planning commission, when that is finished, it.

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Will work the same as commercial industrial you'll have work sessions and eventually.

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Forward your recommendations to the board of commissioners who will schedule work sessions.

D

Following that, a public hearing will be scheduled by the board of commissioners, who will then adopt.

D

This part of the zoning code, the residential text, mary just to clarify, we won't- have.

C

Any kind of public hearing, because we're just forwarding a recommendation, is that not correct.

D

Right, you are not required to have a public hearing, but I'm.

D

Sure, as always, you take public comment and you'll be received.

D

Right, okay, so at this point, are there any questions? If I know I went through a lot of.

D

Specifics- and you don't have anything in front of you to look at if you wanted to the draft code- is.

D

As I said, it's on carol rezoning.org, it's an ongoing work in progress and anybody can look.

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At it, and we encourage people to look at it as it moves forward. But with the understanding that.

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Every time we have another meeting, we usually post the more recent um draft so that everybody can see.

D

The progress we made and where we are so that has been going throughout 2020 that we've had a.

D

Draft up on carol rezoning of the the copy of your presentation just so that we can have it sure sure.

G

You know in reality the amount of changes that have been made um from start to finish.

G

It doesn't sound like there's, been a whole lot of significant changes. I mean there's been.

G

Some dealing with uh what's commercial allowed in the residential area, um you know the the bulk.

G

Issue seems to be a lot of attention, but the um the r40 2010 7.5 000- those really have not changed.

G

Correct the dwelling numbers per acre, those have not changed at all. That's correct, I think compared.

D

To the commercial industrial, because there's so many fewer uses allowed in the residential yeah.

D

There's just many fewer changes. It's also you'll see when you get the draft. I think the draft is.

D

With all those strikeouts and everything which is probably three quarters of it, I think it's about.

D

30 pages long, but that's only a fraction of what the commercial industrial employment campus was.

D

I think go, and- and this will be your second time through it also- um I think it will be.

D

Much easier to review than the first time we went through this exercise a couple years.

G

Yeah some of the comments that I've been again hearing is: why are we moving forward and looking.

G

At rezoning, some residential areas, when we haven't finished the definition process like.

G

We did with the industrial and um commercial and the the reality is that there's not a whole lot.

G

Of changes there to be made in the definitions, so we should have a relatively good expectation that.

G

Decisions made on recommending rezoning in the residential areas um are going to be.

G

Consistent with the definitions in residential, I mean, as opposed to waiting, because that that was.

G

A whole, you know, discussion, and you know this and and linda. I know you know this as well, because we.

G

Sit in the fdca meetings and say: why are we moving forward if we haven't finished the definitions.

G

uh But you're telling me that there's not a whole lot of changes that are gonna be made.

G

And you're relatively confident and actually you're giving me a lot of confidence that.

G

We should continue to move forward um and it's not going to be that significant, correct.

D

Right, I I would say correct linda, would you agree with that? Yes and honestly, the way the timing's.

A

Working out, it's not going to be a big gap between right, so in some ways will be happening very.

A

Simultaneously, so again, it's not like we're doing one six months ahead of the other. It's going to be.

G

Yeah and and that's a really good point, because there's a lot of energy being put in comments on.

G

Especially the baby and the zebra property right now and a lot of attention being put to them. But.

G

The schedule you have and definitions that you've shown in front of us now and also the knowing.

G

The process of rezoning, like we've, been working ourselves through with the commercial industrial.

G

We have a long ways to go: it's not going to happen in the next few weeks or the.

G

Next month, or next two months, you know we have significant steps that still must take place.

G

So you're right they're going to coincide they're going to probably meet each other.

G

You know by time everything's said and done so. Okay, thanks sorry about that, then.

C

No I'm good. Thank you.

F

Would there ever be a situation where we would require a conventional plan.

F

In a cluster I mean that's something you can discuss when you get these. um These changes.

D

In front of you, I mean that you could make that an option, but no, we are recommending.

D

That that requirement be taken out um again. That would be something that you could talk about if.

D

That you would want to have a kind of a hybrid system going um richard.

C

Let me interject here because I'm somewhat familiar with that whole.

C

Issue over time, uh having heard a lot of things about it and having done some development over the.

C

Years part of the problem with that whole concept is that you're spending you're asking a developer.

C

To like, spend a lot of extra time and money coming up with like two versions of a concept plan.

C

Where, in reality generally, it makes more sense to cluster, because it's better for the environment.

C

It's less expensive, but you know under the old rules you gotta present, both and generally we're.

C

Going to say we're like the cluster better anyway, so I think I understand I understand. I understand.

F

That I was just wondering if there were you know there may be situations in the future where the.

F

Clustering is so close that it may not be feasible, in which case that have to do a conventional yeah.

A

I'm sorry go ahead. Mary, I was gonna, I think we're gonna say the thing we decided to recommend for.

D

Minimum lot sizes, because when we looked at what the way we did this, we looked at other codes. We.

D

Couldn't find a single other code that had our kind of system which in itself isn't necessarily.

D

A reason not to do it, but we couldn't find one, and then we looked at all the clusters.

D

Subdivisions in the residential districts in carroll county over the last 20 years, and we.

D

That's pretty much how we came to our decision. Very few of them had lot sizes uh less than we.

D

Are recommending so we really looked at the ones that we felt have worked and that you all have.

D

Approved in carroll county and tried to kind of back into our recommendations that way, I agree.

D

Are there any other questions just uh another one, relatively simple.

G

On uh conservation, residence dwellings on conservation, is it one or three acre or is it.

G

What is allowed, as far as uh residential dwellings and conservation, zoned areas.

A

um Just one unit for three acres and you can cluster down to one acre lots. That's that's what I.

G

Thought so it's one for three acres and but again the same. The same point: cluster down.

G

To one acre lots, so if you have nine acres or ten acres, you can only put three homes.

G

Clustered down to one acre lots in that ten acre piece of property, correct.

D

That is my understanding. We did not look at the conservation zone.

D

Because that's not considered one of the residential districts so.

G

One of the things we may want to look at is where, where can dwelling? Where can resident.

G

Unreasonable work: well, it's working homes uh where can residential properties be put.

G

In which zoned areas and be clear that because conservation again we're looking at a piece of.

G

Property, disabled property is both conservation and and residential. Correct. Yes, a small like 10.

A

Acre portion of that larger property that has come down yeah but just to understand what is allowed.

G

And and because I I do believe, there's misinformation out there on this fear of.

G

Double the amount of homes that are allowed because of the clustering that could take place.

G

And I want to make sure that if that's not a true statement, then we've got to.

G

Be very clear that that will not happen so, okay, so it's 1.3 acres.

D

I believe that, as I said, that is not something we've been looking at, so I I.

D

I don't answer that definitively at this point, I would want somebody from.

D

Development review to see, if there's exceptions to that, okay, yes, okay,.

G

Let's, let's just put as a you know, request for information at a later date. So thanks.

A

More questions.

A

Hey it looks like well. Thank you, mary, we'll move on to our item number seven, our comprehensive.

A

Resounding by request, residential our discussion and our final recommendations.

A

So claire stewart is here claire, I didn't know if you wanted to pull up your slides, real, quick.

A

Just to kind of refresh everyone, okay, so um if you can control and give clear for screen.

H

Can we see that.

C

H

All right, so we are in the um final. uh This is the final meeting um to discuss the by request.

H

Residential, the three properties, two zable properties and a baby property, as you recall,.

H

On november, 17th planning commission made voted uh to give three favorable recommendations. Those were.

H

Each these are provisional recommendations for each of the three properties up here.

H

And then, today we are back for any additional discussion that planning commission wants.

H

To have and then we're looking for final recommendations to forward to the commissioners.

H

um So and tonight's powerpoint is very short, um you've heard me talk about these properties. Many.

H

Times um so I have one slide per request that hits on some highlights and key points, and then we can.

H

Move into discussion, um so the first property is, um is zabel. This is request. R2005, 2020, 0040.

H

Located at 7020 ridge, road um in marriottsville, um 118 acres, the current zoning is r 40.

H

000 in conservation and the requested zoning is our 20 000 in conservation.

H

um From the 2018 freedom plan, there's a future land use designation of residential medium and.

H

Resource conservation um there's also plan major street prother road extended that will connect.

H

To the roadway network, with developments to the west and then ridge relocated, which will open up.

H

The intersection with marysville, too a staff's recommendation is favorable. I'm citing that the.

H

Request is consistent with the 2018 freedom plan, goals and recommendations and the future land use.

H

It's consistent with the surrounding zoning and overall fabric of the community on the.

H

Site is within the freedom designated growth area and priority water and sewer service area.

H

And just to highlight the comments that we've received so far: that's 41 written comments.

H

And 21 verbal comments during planning commission meetings, all of those in opposition to the request.

H

And additionally, the freedom district citizens association.

H

Has held a couple of meetings throughout the past months and during discussion of both disabled.

H

Properties and the baby property many attendees were in opposition of reserving these properties.

H

As I said, as I said before, um the provisional recommendation was favorable, but before we get.

H

Into discussion I'm going to flip over to the next one, this is the other zabel r2005 2020 0041.

H

um Also located on ridge road in marriottsville, the current zoning is r40. The request is r20.

H

And it's 28 acres. um The future land use from the 2018 plan is residential, medium density.

H

The consistency and comments are the same as the previous request and again planning.

H

Commission um ebay, provisional recommendation of favorable um at the november 17th meeting.

H

So at this time we can move into discussion.

H

um And or final recommendation and then we will move on to the the last request for the night.

A

Do we have anybody signed up to get a public comment tonight.

A

We were not doing public comment sign ups. There is an opportunity for public.

A

Comment if you would like to take public comment now, that's up to um to you all. We.

A

Do have it programmed in and I believe there are some colleges on the line.

G

Before just the public comment and the only comment I am going to make on these properties,.

G

Again, good good presentation: the amount of comments that we received have been much much more.

G

Because we receive them from the commissioners and we get them, you know sometimes in bulk and letter.

G

Phone calls we do know that there was a petition also from the community of hundreds of folks.

G

uh In opposition, um I haven't physically seen this petition, so I don't know if it's kids and adults I.

G

You know or family members, but I just know that it's significant um and uh and I do know as a.

G

Commissioner, with the other commissioners, we're also receiving a lot of comments.

G

Not in favor of these two properties so, and that's just because you're throwing the numbers clear out.

G

There it sounds like it's significantly more uh than those just those numbers. That's all.

A

Does anybody on the commission have anything they want to discuss before we do open for.

A

Some public comment: I know: we've talked about these properties quite a bit yeah. The only thing.

I

I have to say is: I noticed that several of the letters are either spouses or the same as before,.

I

So some of it is definitely repeat cynthia. I have a few things to say, but I'd rather wait till after.

C

If we're taking public comment at this point, let's have the public comment. First,.

A

Okay, linda, are you ready to do any uh well yeah, so the control room will have to unmute.

A

The callers there's three callers on the line um and then, if they can just.

A

Say their name and their address and um that these are comments just for disabled property.

A

So we will hold comments for the baby property until claire presents that property. So if any.

A

Caller has a comment regarding zabel. Please state your name and address for the records.

J

I have a comment, my name, can you hear me? Yes, we can. uh My name is bonnie cartoonist and I'm.

J

At 7124 shayland drive and we are opposed to the rezoning. We understand that growth is good.

J

But it needs to be smart growth and by rezoning those properties you're going to double the amount.

J

Of homes and you're going to over overwhelm our schools and the roadways and it's a very congested.

J

Area of cars coming in and out, and we don't want to see that additional growth being done.

J

Thank you. Thank you. Are there any other callers on the line for these able properties.

B

Yeah hi, this is jeannie barker. I live at 2185 morning. Wind drive and um I agree with everything.

B

The previous speaker said, I know you guys have heard from me many times and I'm really not.

B

Opposed to growth and this being a growth area, but again it's double what what was proposed.

B

Before and for in my particular situation, it's been a conservation area and now it's going to be.

B

You know zoned for our first 40 000., that's a big, that's a big difference and um again I don't feel.

B

The infrastructure's there with the roads- I don't I'm not a planning, commissioner, but I'm often not.

B

I'm not stupid, I have several master's degrees and I um really I don't understand how you can.

B

Change the zoning when the infrastructure's just not there and doesn't look like it's going to be.

B

There and I don't really care about water sewage. I care about the roads where people can get killed.

B

And where things are just going to get worse and worse, I'd actually be happy to have development.

B

Across the field, because then I won't have this yahoo out there with a gun shooting beer. That's.

B

Been doing this lately um and I don't mind, having I don't mind, having neighbors instead of a corn.

B

Field, but just with the drainage issues and the environmental concerns the roads, the schools.

B

I just I feel like the development at what it's currently zoned is fine, and I don't understand.

B

Needing to change the zoning, I don't feel that one property owner should have the ability to.

B

Have more rights than the people who live in the surrounding areas and again I'm not.

B

Going to agree that this meets the fabric of the community, nobody in my community.

B

Agrees that going in with two hou, you know with that level of density is the fabric of our.

B

Community um and we're just gonna continue to have that opinion. Although we respect property owners.

B

Rights- and we understand there will be development of some sort there. We just are very cautious about.

B

Having some kind of high density senior senior center or something that can go up there, that's.

B

You know something that exceeds the current zoning and I feel like what we have now is.

B

Sufficient and I just wish that um the community, which I believe the petition has well over 800.

B

Signatures- and that was just with a couple days, if we really advertised it, I'm sure we could get.

B

It up there so that's a lot more than 41 and I just hope that you'll take into account how we.

B

The citizens who are paying the taxes and voting are feeling about this. So thank you for your time.

A

All right are there any other callers. Thank you um for disabled property,.

K

uh Yes, okay, go ahead, set your name and address for the record. Please.

K

Hi I'm kristin morinelli 2175 morning, wind drive in marriottsville.

K

um I'm calling again to reiterate my concerns for the rezoning by allowing the increased density.

K

Now it it basically creates a legal case for the developer to build at this density. On the.

K

Property, if we look at the concerns that have already been presented in previous meetings,.

K

Why would the county want to box themselves in and create a situation for potential legal case when.

K

The area can't support the density, that's being proposed by doubling the density right now. You're.

K

Kind of boxing the county into allowing it at some point, because um I spoke with bill cain facilities.

K

Ccps facilities and he said well, there's no technical requirement, but there are many.

K

Cases in legal precedence where, for instance, the school capacity didn't allow for construction of a.

K

Certain density or a certain number of homes- and it's it's not allowed to just rest on that case-.

K

Forever, it's expected that that will be remedied at some point in the future and he said in carroll.

K

County, the capitals expenditure budget is run on a six-year cycle, so that would really only allow.

K

Six years until the schools would need to be improved if school facilities were a concern for.

K

This property- I just feel if there are concerns now, why are we boxing ourselves into a corner and.

K

Doubling the amount of homes that can be built there when we're not even sure that 150 homes.

K

Could be handled by our school facilities and I'm not even getting into marriottsville road 2.

K

Or the drainage issues, I'm an environmental engineer by trade, and I can tell you I've.

K

Told you, in my letters, the drainage issues, the trout issues, the damage to the potential.

K

Flooding damage that could be caused by excess runoff, and this is going to go to ellicott city.

K

These this is from an actual professional review, and I've stated all of these concerns in the.

K

Letters, but it already seems, like the planning commission, has made up their mind to approve it.

K

And send it down the road and have these these concerns addressed by other offices. I just hope.

K

It's not too late to make a wise decision at that point and not allow something that is too.

K

Much for this community. Thank you. Are there any other callers on the line for disabled property.

A

The callers now, that's it and then we'll move on to the baby property. After this.

A

And take comments for that. Yes, I have a comment on the on the baby or zebel.

A

Maple: okay, if you can state your name and address for the record.

L

My name is joanne grundy and I'm at 2360, jim kohler road in sykesville maryland.

F

Go ahead, thank you for this opportunity to voice my opposition to rezoning of disabled property.

L

And the freedom area to higher density, residential youth, I agree with what a lot of the other.

L

Residents have said on during the other meetings. I believe that this request for rezoning is what.

L

Legal proceedings would refer to as piecemeal rezoning, there's no evidence of either a mistake.

L

In the current zoning of an rf40, 000 designation or a change in the surrounding land use that.

L

Would make the current residential zoning out of character with the surrounding community.

L

On the contrary, a change to higher density zoning would be more out of character with.

L

The surrounding land use and the current zoning, especially if senior village housing, is chosen.

L

I also agree with other points that have been made regarding increased traffic school.

L

Overcrowding and increased storm water flows and potential flooding. I questioned the integrity of.

L

The commission, with so many residents of the freedom area, writing and calling in to oppose.

L

This rezoning, the commission, still gave this request a provisional favorable vote last month.

L

As members of the commission, you should be representing the interests of all parties.

L

Not just the small numbers that will directly benefit from the rezoning as the largest.

L

Unincorporated priority funding area- this is even more important than in other areas of the county.

L

As we only have one commissioner to represent us in regards to this rezoning, as commissioner.

L

Ross dean has said in the past, just because you can doesn't mean you should.

L

I have spoken with mrs eisenberg and mr rostein as well on the reallocation of sewer service.

L

Disabled property lies just outside of the priority funding area and the priority funding.

L

Area is for allocation of. You know. State resources, including public water and sewer.

L

The sewer maps have been redrawn to reallocate sewer capacity, two properties to the two zabel.

L

Parcels to allow for higher density development, but it's been taken away.

L

From existing properties within the pfa that are on well and septic, some of those which have had.

L

Failing systems, inadequate, well yields and so forth, so I disagree with these planning.

L

Decisions that are being made- and I hope that you will make the right decision. Thank you.

A

There any other people that would wish to speak regarding disabled property,.

E

Yes, hello, can you hear me please state your name and address for the record.

E

Sure my name is dana vetter. I live at 6911 pine hill court. First of all, I'd like to.

E

Agree with everyone who spoke before me.

E

If you look at a satellite map of this area, you can see that anything southeast of brangles it.

E

Just doesn't make sense to increase the density. There I mean you're, surrounded by.

E

The park and a lot of um houses that are on lots larger than one acre.

E

And I would just like to say that I mean I'm I'm totally agreeing with everyone before me, but.

E

If anything, you should be considering making this making more conservation in this area.

E

um Yes, I believe that the environmental and ecological impact is just not going to support.

E

The r20 in this area and.

E

I think when the commissioners looked back in 1977 at what was existing there, we had some houses on.

E

Forest hill, road, some houses on pine hill and carroll highlands and they changed it back to.

E

R40- and I think they saw the big picture, and I think you should maybe consider that.

E

um And also the freedom plan um in 2018, you said you had um nine uh citizen, citizen focus group.

E

And I really don't know who was on that citizen focus group. But I think if we had known what was.

E

Going on then, and for some reason I mean I was never aware of the zoning changes.

E

I think what you're hearing now is what you would have heard ben and thank you for your time. Bye, bye,.

A

Are there any other callers wishing to speak regarding disabled property that have not spoken yet.

A

The control room commute to the callers, please and then we'll move on. Thank you.

A

Dan, did you want to make a couple comments before we move.

C

I'll, let somebody else go first, if they'd like that's, why.

C

Okay, you know the way I I look at this is you know zoning a lot of the work that we're doing.

C

Is based off of work that was done in the 1960s, with the original master plan for the county.

C

And partly that was about preserving ag land over 100 to a goal of 100 000 acres, as well as having.

C

Designated growth areas around our municipalities, as well as the freedom area. Hence why why, as.

C

Taxpayers for all of carroll county a lot of money was spent on building water and sewer in this area.

C

And I guess where what I come down to this area is where the water and sewer is.

C

It's where the citizens of carroll county invested the money for water and sewer as the designated.

C

Growth area- and I I think arguably one could make the case that the zoning really should be like.

C

3.5 units per acre, which is more in conforming to state guidelines for designated growth areas,.

C

And priority funding areas and we're at a point in time we have to be looking at all of carroll.

C

County and what is in the best interest of carroll county in the long run and the reality is from.

C

A local standpoint from a state standpoint from a national standpoint, we have a severe.

C

Lack of housing. The fact that we are are re-zoning from our 40 000 to r20 000, which is literally one.

C

Watt per acre, which is typically what you would have for well and septic to two lots per acre.

C

Which is a very low-key intensive use for public water? Public sewer, I think, is extremely reasonable.

C

And low-key, considering the fact that this is a designated growth area.

C

I understand the fact that you know the neighbors who are not familiar with all the history.

C

And understand all the history behind of all this are upset because of course, they live next door to.

C

A property that's vacant and they don't want to see it develop. I get that, but at the end of the.

C

Day I have to look at this decision as what makes sense, considering the history of carroll county.

C

And all the decisions that had been made since the 1960s, for what is the best and right decision and.

C

Anyway, I look at this. I can't this matches our free. What what we did in the freedom master plan.

C

It's very low key. I could easily argue that it should be r 10 000, not r 20 000,.

C

And I just have no, I can think of no logical reason to say no here, but just to make.

C

You know the only reason I would say no is purely about politics, not what the right thing is to do.

C

In the long run, and I'm going to make a decision based off of what I think is the right thing to do,.

C

For all of carroll county, we are the carroll county planning and zoning commission.

C

Okay, so that's where I'm coming from. I have not changed my mind on how I feel about this.

C

I am favorable for this recommendation. Of course, I'm open to hearing from the rest of.

C

You all to see if you think differently, um but that's kind of where I'm at.

A

Well, I mean, I agree with you dan, I think, having gone through the county master plan and then.

A

Moving to the freedom, the way the county is laid out and the things we've been doing.

A

Were exactly of this nature, so um this this is what we've been talking about.

A

And the way the county has laid everything out, like you said from the very beginning, so.

F

I guess what I'd like to say is a lot of the people. What.

C

Janice was trying to talk which commuted herself. So I'm sorry richard, but you go well. That's the.

F

That's the trouble with zoom meetings. Anyhow, you know a lot of a lot of talk about the all these.

F

Environmental issues- and these will all be taken into consideration when the concept plans for the.

F

Development takes place, so it's it's, no guarantee that it's it's going to double the the number.

F

Of houses um chances are it'll, be pretty close to that. But you know we have a lot of things.

F

That we have to consider doing the actual development of this property, and so all of.

F

That will be taken into consideration when we do that. I agree, and you know the schools.

I

That will be taken into consideration as well as roads, and it could be 10 years 15 years from now.

I

By the time, but we're establishing what can be for the future, not necessarily what will be tomorrow.

M

I I haven't changed my mind either I mean I've listened to all of the comments and I've read the.

M

Comments um and I understand the concerns and I understand the issues um I think the people.

M

That have spoken. The one lady mentioned that she's not stupid. I don't think any of the speakers are.

M

Stupid, I think they have all been very articulate and clearly well intentioned and again I applaud.

M

The civility with which they've been articulating their concerns and I'm completely empathetic.

M

All of us on the commission have homes. We live in homes, we have surrounding communities. We.

M

Understand all these things very well, but on the commission, we're tasked with as dan.

M

Said looking at both geographically a bigger picture and temporally a longer time period,.

M

And we did that through the looking at land use on the comprehensive plan and now we're looking at at.

M

The zoning issues to implement that and I sort of sort of I incorporate by reference everything I.

M

Said in the last meeting, uh for the reasons why I think um that changing this zoning to.

M

Our 20 000 is really the responsible thing to do from a county perspective, including use of.

M

Resources, tax dollars, um uh demand for housing and the demand for housing will change over time.

M

Just because it's our 20 000 doesn't mean that it'll be built. As I said last time tomorrow or.

M

Next week or next month- and it may not be built for a long time and ultimately, the owner of the.

M

Property may decide that they don't want to develop that density. A developer may decide.

M

That, because of market demands, they want to do something different part of it is making space for.

M

Developers and owners of properties to respond to market demands at a given time. So in the.

M

School issues and all we talked about last time, these infrastructure issues get dealt.

M

With through concurrency management through site plan evaluation, all of the environmental issues.

M

Have to be addressed and will be addressed at the right time, along with traffic studies and.

M

And other things, this is a zoning decision tonight, it's purely a zoning decision in the context.

M

Following the land use decisions where we try to look out over a 30-year time horizon.

M

The fact that there are 800 signers of a petition um it matters to me it makes clear.

M

That the people that signed the petition feel strongly about that. I understand that.

M

But part of the process that the leaders of our community have set in place is that they don't.

M

Want these kinds of decisions being made thinking about uh the next election, so that everyone always.

M

Looks at this with a four-year time horizon we're not politicians. None of us is a politician.

M

We're all appointed for a period of time, and the idea is that we're supposed to be able to take.

M

A longer-term view- and I think, we're honoring our responsibilities and our commitment to do that.

M

So, um for all the reasons I said last time, I really do think that this is the responsible.

M

And correct um highest and best use of the land, uh and so um I'm very much in favor.

M

Of um of sending this to the commissioners with a positive uh recommendation.

A

I'm gonna do, can we take a vote now or should we move on to the baby property.

A

I think you can take a vote now and you're going to do both of them together.

A

About zabel practice, if you're going to take them one at a time.

A

um I mean it makes makes sense to me to do both disabled properties together unless.

A

That anybody else disagrees so um I mean we have to have a motion, though, made right. First.

M

Well, this is jeff I'll make a motion uh as to both zable properties that we forward.

M

um To the county commissioners, the request that zoning changed our 20 000 and conservation.

M

um With a positive recommendation, I'll second, that mr canale.

F

Yes, mr hawk, yes, his car parent, yes, mr sorenson.

A

Mr sorensen.

F

Yes, mr roberts, yes, please let the record reflect that five are in favor and the motion carries.

A

Claire, if you can present the next property, please.

H

um Oh, thank you.

H

Sorry I was muted, I'm moving one.

H

Okay on to longmeadow farms um or the beatty property, this is request. R2005 202042.

H

um Located at 1701 bennett road in sykesville, this request is 69 acres and the current zoning.

H

Is light industrial and conservation and the requested zoning is residential, 20.

H

The future land use designation um is on this map, and that is residential, medium density and.

H

Commercial high from the 2018 freedom plan on plan, major street georgetown boulevard extended.

H

Will serve as as additional access to the site from the west staff's recommendation.

H

Is favorable citing consistency with the um freedom plan, goals and recommendations and.

H

The feature land use stunts or future land use of residential, medium density. um It's consistent with.

H

The surrounding zoning there are larger pockets of r 20 000 to the east and south of this request.

H

The sites within the freedom designated growth area and the party funding area.

H

And within the existing water and sewer service area,.

H

um Written comments received that have been passed along. The planning commission um we've received.

H

Seven and then we've had four verbal comments in opposition um during planning commission.

H

Meet during the planning commission meeting, as commissioner also stated previously, we have had.

H

You know a lot more phone calls and um once again, during the freedom district, citizens, association.

H

This request was opposed by many citizens at that at some of those um previous monthly meetings.

H

um On november 17th planning commission gave this a um favorable provisional recommendation.

H

And that is all I have for you. We can move into any questions, discussion or a final recommendation.

H

I don't know if there's any colors on the line.

A

So this is another property. We've been discussing a long time. You know I'm.

A

Totally favorable for the recommendation. That's definitely not going to change.

A

I think we've discussed the value of this property over and over so.

C

I'm in agreeance I you know this is everything I just said before, for sable.

C

Applies to this, but quite frankly, even more so due to its location.

C

And its history, so I you know, I I think that again our 25, our 20 000, is a very reasonable.

C

Low-Key intensity, considering that we're in the heart of the freedom area on water and sewer.

C

So I don't see how we could say anything but favorable in this case.

C

So therefore, I'll go ahead and make the recommendation that I'll make the motion.

C

Because we've talked about this property so much uh that we afford.

C

A favorable recommendation for our 20 000 on this particular property I'll second.

F

F

Yes, mr hall, yes, is per parent. Yes, mr soy sin. Yes, mr waters, yes.

A

Please let the record reflect that five are in favor and the motion carries.

A

So our next meeting is tuesday december 15th. I was moved up to the christmas holiday.

A

So that is our business meeting um cynthia I did have one thing I wanted to just kind of mention.

C

um It kind of relates to some of what we talked about tonight a little bit when you get a chance.

C

Are you okay yep? I just it kind of ties into some of what we've been talking about tonight.

C

And I'm currently, I'm serving on a task force uh for the state of maryland on housing needs.

C

Assessments uh assessment for the state for gchd. Hopefully I got those uh uh initials correct.

C

uh But they're gonna be having a report out in the next couple months and I will also tell you that.

C

um With some of the work I do down in annapolis, I've been hearing a lot of rumblings that the.

C

State is starting to get very concerned about the lack of housing inventory and the diversity.

C

Of housing inventory in the state of maryland and there seems to be will building up in annapolis,.

C

And on the state level of coming and basically saying hey locals, if you do not do x, y and z,.

C

To provide more housing for your communities, we are going to legislate how you're going to do that.

C

And even supersede your zoning and other things, so I think that's something that we kind of need.

C

To keep in mind as we move forward, because it's been brewing a little bit here for the past couple.

C

Years but it is really building momentum um and I think when that report comes out from the state.

C

Advisory group that is going to be another, beat on the drum related to this, and, quite frankly, when.

C

You look at some of the statistics it you can start tying it into uh kind of discriminatory.

C

Effects um on what it does to you know different groups. So it's a very real problem and one that.

C

The state is starting to take a lot more seriously, so I just kind of wanted to it ties into kind of.

C

What we were talking about tonight again, what I think we were doing here is very low key.

C

And I could make an argument that you know we should have done a more intense zoning easily.

C

Make that argument, um but I just kind of want bill, fill you all in on that and I'm sure you'll.

C

Be hearing more about that um you know report when it comes out I'll be glad to share it with you all.

C

um And I'm sure you'll be hearing more about all this over the next six to six to 12 months.

I

Yeah, I think they're definitely going to be doing a push for affordable housing and that's you know.

I

Statewide county, why it's? You know a big big issue, so I think we will see that so here it.

G

Is an issue- and I was with the secretary a few weeks ago and talk about affordable housing.

G

Not here in carroll, county and uh I've met with him over a few times over the last year or two.

G

One we're not like other counties and we're not going to.

G

Necessarily bend like other counties will have to, um especially when it comes to affordable housing.

G

I this is the first time I've heard that something may bubble up in the next six to 12 months. I just.

G

Was in a meeting with the maryland association of counties and they talked about the legislative.

G

Priorities um for this upcoming season and it's going to be a mess, as we all know, because we're.

G

Getting ourselves out of the situation over this past year, housing was not one of them.

G

Really it was mostly focused on budget commissioner austin you're frozen.

G

Funding on police on a couple other issues, but housing wasn't one of them. uh If I do not take.

G

Zoning visions out of the county uh responsibility and I don't think that would ever happen.

G

um But you know again, if I hear something I will make sure I I let everybody know uh so.

G

I I know the state recommends things and suggests things, but carroll county's, carroll,.

G

County and it doesn't necessarily have to adhere to suggestions from the state.

G

And we've shown ourselves that way and uh yeah these are. These are tough decisions you all are.

G

Making and I'm not saying they're wrong to see whatsoever, they are difficult decisions.

G

Because they affect people's lives and uh and a lot of emotions and jeff you're, absolutely right.

G

The discussions that were going back and forth, I cannot applaud any louder about how the community.

G

Is discussing this with you and how you as a whole, are discussing it with the community? The.

G

Recommendations were made, the timeline will now be set to come to us as board of commissioners.

G

To making good decisions, uh a lot of folks will talk about you, making decisions.

G

Your decisions, as you know, were to make the recommendations, and you did them, and you.

G

Didn't very deliberately and very confidently, so I applaud that um and now it's gonna be on us.

G

So yeah a lot to think about. But again I appreciate that I'm looking forward to what you.

G

You know get because I have not uh heard any of that, um especially over the last.

G

Week or so, um I've been really attuned with again with housing so that I agree yeah.

C

Maybe you and I can, I can tell you a little bit about what I'm hearing.

C

So, okay, uh but I mean what I'm getting is is from you know the legislative and.

G

And uh from nato and from others, but uh also the dialogue I had with the secretary.

G

Again, I think it was two weeks ago uh with him and also a secretary of record planning. So, um okay.

A

Thanks dan, I think we've been talking about this issue for a while also, but, like commissioner said,.

A

Carroll county is a little different um with lack of public water, public sewer from other.

A

Public amenities, so it's not easily legislated here. Well, as I should say, a one-stop solution.

A

So, okay, some a lot coming down in the future. So with that uh I'll make the motion that we adjourn.

A

And I will see you guys in two weeks. Thank you. Thank you.

I