Carroll County, MD Carroll County Planning and Zoning Commission, 30 Mar 2022

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From YouTube: Planning & Zoning Commission of Carroll County, MD March 30, 2022

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https://www.carrollcountymd.gov/government/boards-commissions/planning-zoning-commission/

A

A

So please call the meeting to order. Please take your seats.

B

We're going to begin it's now 605, I'm calling the meeting to order march 30th, 2022.

B

And we will uh begin with establishment of a quorum.

C

Mr waters, I am here mrs parker here, mr lester, mr hoff, here mr cain here.

A

Mr chair, please let the record reflect that six members are present and we do have a question.

D

Very good: let's stand for the pledge of.

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Of allegiance united states of america and to the republic for which he said, one nation, under god,.

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Indivisible with liberty and justice.

B

Very good. The next item on our agenda is review and approval of the agenda are.

B

There any changes to the agenda. um The only revision was the entrance policy.

F

For this evening, and so that's it nothing, no substance very good, then I would be happy to.

B

Entertain a motion for approval of the agenda to approve the agenda. Second, all right, all favor.

B

Madam secretary, I turn it over to you for the administrative report, absolutely so just a couple of orders for this evening of business.

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um Anyone who's wishing to speak and give comment, please sign up in the back of the room.

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um Or else your name will not be called we're going to try to do this in an orderly fashion.

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Each speaker has three minutes to give their presentation of the comments they'd like to.

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Give to the planning commission this evening um any additional comments, if you would like please.

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Email them to the planning commission, it's on our website. I believe it's plan, com.

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G

Okay, we will also post that up here, but that way that goes directly to our planning commission.

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Members, it's not filtered through stops. If there's anything additional you'd like to add that you did.

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Not get to say um during your time this evening, please email them into our planning. Commission.

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um If you can turn up all your cell phones um and keep.

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Chatter, to a minimum in the back, so that way we can hear the speaker presentations.

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uh Laura mataj from development review will be giving her presentation followed by mr pilon.

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Who represents st john's property and will also go over the plan with you as well? So.

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I just wanted to go over those kind of bits of order and laura will be keeping the time.

B

Very good anything else, yep, that's all I have this evening.

B

Very good, then, we'll turn it over to item six, which is a special report.

C

Look at the number of chairs need it.

C

On the second morning, it's not.

C

Good evening good evening,.

C

Do you do you want to wait a second or ask people to so so they can all hear. No, that's a good idea.

B

Why don't we have everyone who's standing in the back? If you could.

B

Take a seat, or at least if you have something to talk about step outside.

B

So that we can make sure everybody can hear what's going on.

C

All right again, good evening, I'm laura mathias with the bureau of development review.

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And development review we're here tonight with a special report for you. As you will note, there is.

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No county file number up top is usually on this report that you have is where we.

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Put that so this is just the baby property, and that has good reason. So the project is.

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Not yet in a technical review process with the county, this is a pre-request for the developer.

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In their efforts to engage, the community engage the planning commission to bring their.

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Overall master plan for this baby property to a public meeting tonight: okay, so what I.

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Would like to do is actually invite mr pilon up anybody that you would like to bring with you.

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Thank you so just to introduce yourself and say hello and and then I will give you some.

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Context for the property itself, where we are in carroll county what's around there and then I will.

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Hand it over to mr pilon, who has his own presentation regarding their vision for.

C

Developing the property very good good evening evening. Thank you. uh My name is tom pilon. I'm.

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Executive vice president of development for saint john properties, which means that.

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I get building permits for a living right, at least endeavor, to get building permits for a living.

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I have matt taylor with me this evening, who's our development manager and he will uh be the lead.

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Development manager for the project when we get to the point of working through the technical.

H

uh Design and review of the project itself. Thank you for the opportunity to be here this evening.

H

It was explained to me that our request was a little unusual to be here this early.

H

But we are in a due diligence period uh as we're under contract to purchase the property.

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We do not presently own it, um so we wanted to see what kind of feedback we could get.

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And share kind of, as laura mentioned, the uh just kind of the vision for the project in.

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General and and give you some pieces to it, but I won't get ahead of myself.

H

Well, I think we found that open communication as early as possible tends to be a good thing.

B

Sure so we appreciate you being here and so welcome great well, thank you for the opportunity.

I

Yup good evening, uh as tom said, matt taylor, st john properties, development manager. I work.

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On tom's team and as he said, I will be leading this project as we move forward on a day-to-day.

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Basis with the goal of getting building permits um and I'd like, as you guys mentioned, the open.

I

Communication just started early so feel free to reach out myself for time as we move forward.

I

And we're happy to help well, thanks for being here. Thank you all right.

C

So, as stated, I am going to simply give you a context for where this is happening and.

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What's in the area, there's probably not a single person in this room who doesn't know.

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Like could just take mountains or county and pretty much point to the baby property.

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That is probably due to the fact that it well a lot of things. It's been in the public eye. Lately.

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For the rezoning uh which you're familiar with, but also it's one of the largest properties left in.

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The freedom area that has not yet been developed, so it it's definitely high profile. I would say.

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um The property itself is just about 121 acres, all combined okay, so.

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Location, wise right we are between. We are north of route, 26, south of bennett, road east of route.

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32 and west of oklahoma road, so that's kind of the trend or rectangular box that we are in here.

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That 121 acres is comprised of multiple parcels it. It does have three zoning districts across the.

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Entirety of the 121 acres, so I'm sure you'll remember this. So along bennett road we have a.

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Swath of our 40 000, residential, okay and then off of progress way. We have an i1 industrial district.

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And then the rest is our 20, which is residential, 20 000., okay, a little bit closer in. We can see.

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Where we are um just more contacts to the north across bennett road, we have.

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A 1994 subdivision quincy station. This is all our forty thousand so it matches. Then what is.

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On the baby property, the r40 000 along bennett,.

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To the northeast is wilson farms. Some of you might remember, or have been involved with wilson farms.

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Subdivision approval that was back in 2015. The plenary commission approved that subdivision.

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So this is the triangular lot here, also r20, which then matches across to the baby. That is a cluster.

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Subdivision you can tell that by the lot sizes and the larger open space parcels here: okay,.

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To the south, we have a much older subdivision 1961. This is longmeadow subdivision.

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And that's in the r 20 000 zoning district also.

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Okay, a long progress way- probably many of you have driven back here, hopefully so long progress way. We.

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Have single tenant, multi-tenant buildings in the I-1 district and to the west along.

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Londontown boulevard, so here's georgetown coming up and londontown in this direction.

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Commercial and retail businesses that are I-1 and c-3 zoning districts. Okay, so that's.

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The general area context, the property itself- does have a stream that bisects it you'll.

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See that loud and clear on here, along with forested buffer along that stream right now,.

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The 2018 freedom community comprehensive plan, so we are.

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This is a good snapshot of the red and white dash lines. Are the planned major streets.

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That are, in that plan that 2018 plan and you'll see.

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These you're all familiar with they've all touched some project recently that you are all aware of.

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um The extension of dickinson road, paralleling 26, the extension of monroe through the hobie.

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Wolf property and the extension of georgetown from that I'm going to call it a 90 degree.

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Turn here, london, town and georgetown up to connect to progress way; okay, the yellow lines you'll.

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See on here just for again full contact. These are pedestrian walkways that are in existence.

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So that adds a little bit of interest to um you know. Wilson farms does have sidewalk as well as.

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Sidewalk along bennett road again, some of you up here may remember approving that plan.

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This also shows with the traffic signals in the area. Okay,.

C

C

So going a bit deeper into context. As you all are aware, we saw recently the hobie wolf property.

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For 103 lots residential lots- that is a plan that is in process right now, with the technical review.

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Process a couple schools in the area, oklahoma, middle and liberty, high school, very near.

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And then we've gone ahead and just identified along this corridor, london, town and georgetown.

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There are quite a number: this again is industrial commercially zoned here and you'll see that by.

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The different colors and just identified some of the existing uses, not all of them by far, but it's.

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Again, some context if you're going from point a to point b, who's going where right connectivity.

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So we are in the existing water and sewer service areas for this property.

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So it will all be connected to the public infrastructure.

C

And then to zoom in we do have that i1 zoned area of the baby property off a progress way.

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We simply pulled into this slide from directly from the code. What.

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Our principle, the principal permitted uses in the i1 and conditional uses- and it was just a snapshot.

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Of what may potentially go there right? We don't know they. Probably they probably don't even know.

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And then some just images along the bennett road, so this is at 32 in bennett.

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And you'll see on the right hand, side on the south side where we have industrial on the other.

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Side of this we have a berm and landscaping and, as we move along the road you can see.

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That berman landscaping continue all the way through there as we approach the baby property.

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And then we open up where we have the residences across the street, the r40 zoning on the left-hand.

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Side in this, so we're heading, east, okay and on the right would be the baity property. Now we're.

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Approaching this is at wilson farms where the sidewalk is and the cluster subdivision there.

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Then we get further down the road to oak creek subdivision.

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Which is a little bit older, this is where you'll find the.

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Backyards face bennett road and then the fencing people put out fencing as they desired.

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And then we're heading towards oklahoma here.

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And then, on the south side of the baby proper, we have ruling view drive in that.

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Older subdivision so you'll see what the street section and the lots look like there.

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And a snapshot on georgetown boulevard heading north, so you'll see at the very.

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Top of this, you know where the car is, that is, that 90 degree turn onto london town. There.

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Okay, so that with that planned extension through there, the county would, of course,.

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Be looking for the same type, roadway section to continue on as the georgetown extension.

C

Okay, so we have we, as I said, this is not in a technical review process once they are.

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Ready to come into that process that will just like any development plan that will be seen by.

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Approximately 24 different review agencies for all the technical aspects of the code. Okay, so.

C

This was sim, this is simply like, I said, informational, and they asked for some feedback.

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Here tonight from you all from the community um to see to see what everybody has to say.

C

Now they have submitted a traffic impact study. That's not unusual that that would come before.

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A plan is officially submitted, and that is in the review process with county and state.

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Highway administration are reviewing a traffic impact study to see what that looks like okay,.

C

So I think that that sums it up from a context perspective and then, if you have any questions.

C

Right now, I'm happy to answer those, if not we'll, have the developer share their plan.

B

You, okay, with going forward with the developers yep.

B

Yes, sir good all right, very good, gentlemen, why don't you proceed great? Thank you.

C

F

We don't the room is linked, and so it's whatever the.

F

Microphone, so I guess, if you could speak more clearly into the mic, would be helpful.

F

So they can hear in the back better yep, pretty much bring it away. Thank you.

F

Is that better yeah? Okay, all right.

J

Okay well again, thank you very much for giving us the opportunity to be here this.

H

Evening, as I mentioned, I'm tom pilon with st john properties um and we're going to share.

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Some slides here of uh just kind of give you an overview of the project and uh obviously.

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Happy to answer any questions uh either as we go along or when we get to the end. Whichever way.

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You'd like to do that, um so just a couple, quick introductions: I've already introduced myself and.

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Matt's introduced himself, we have a couple members of our team with us as well: andy stein from.

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Design, I'm sorry from development design. Consultants ddc is the project manager for the.

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Engineering firm, uh the local firm here, you're, probably familiar with kelly shea fern clark.

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Shaffer excuse me kelly's here this evening. Clark is not um we'll be our land use attorney and then.

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Mark keely from traffic concepts as our traffic is our traffic consultant.

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um St john properties, just a little bit for some reason. This one.

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Portion of the slide is not showing up appropriately, but on the right right-hand side.

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There, what it's trying to show you is the states where saint john properties currently is invested.

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So we actually don't we don't remotely invest in properties. We place a person.

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On the ground, in whatever state that we might be invested in so we're currently in eight states,.

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um Listed there and then company was started here in 1971 by ed st john he's born and grew up.

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In baltimore and has remained here, his whole life, we just celebrated our 50th anniversary last year.

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And uh ed still arrives at the office every single day and is intimately involved in every.

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One of these projects- in fact he called me today to ask me questions about this particular project.

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We're one of the largest uh developers in the mid-atlantic a couple years ago in 2018 we were.

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We were selected as the national developer of the year by nap, which is a commercial organization for.

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Property owners that own commercial and industrial properties, something that we're very proud of and.

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Quite honestly, never expected a company of our size to be able to win an award of that prestige.

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We are the number one lead developer in maryland. What that means, if you're familiar with leed.

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The it's basically the green building standard that the state and others have adopted. We have.

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90 buildings certified as lead buildings makes us the largest owner of leed buildings in the state.

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And number five in the country. So it's something that we've really.

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Put a focus on and we're and we're rather proud of that fact as well.

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Again, I mentioned we're locally owned, but a big thing is: we are long-term owners. We are not fee.

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Developers, we don't do any third party development for anyone. We only develop for ourselves.

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And, as a result, we're long-term property owners as well we're really real estate investment company.

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So pretty much everything that ed's ever developed, we still own and that's important, and we make that.

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Point because when we enter a community and just down the road from from this property,.

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We have liberty exchange which we but 2007, I think it would take. We started that project.

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And we're still there and we still own it and we'll be here for a long time. So once we venture.

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The community we stay there that's important to us because to us uh we, you know we try to become.

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Part of the community when we invest we're just as interested in what's going on next to us, as as.

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The current residents are and the current businesses are what's coming next to them,.

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So again, we'll remain in the community, we'll be getting good neighbors just quickly. We're.

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Kind of we're soup to nuts, as far as uh what we do, uh we start with acquisitions, uh whether it's a.

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Redevelopment site or a you know, maybe a value-add opportunity or a raw piece of land. That's going to.

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Be developed from the ground up, and so we have an acquisitions group. I take care of our development.

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Group we have a construction group where I mentioned before we're not third party developers.

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We are general contractors, but we do not do construction for anyone other than ourselves.

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We do the the site, work and the shell buildings and then we actually have an interior construction.

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Group as well, we have in-house leasing that works with the local brokerage community. We.

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Have our own property management? We have our own maintenance division, our own in-house leasing.

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And marketing groups, so we are literally soup to nuts. When you come to us, you deal with us and.

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Again, just part of our business model several years ago, a number of years ago, I guess now ed.

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St john began the edward st john foundation, uh which is again the idea of giving back to the.

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Community, its principal mission is k through 12 education, but sometimes we we do other things in.

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Addition to that, so things where you might see our name associated with events and things like that.

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The uh the half marathon that's run at uh maple lawn down in howard county every year, associated.

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With the uh green balm cancer institute at university of maryland, uh the polar bear.

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Plunge up at aberdeen proving grounds we have the fallen star memorial, which commemorates.

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Colonel harold green that was killed in action in afghanistan and also is a memorial to the families.

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Who are experienced the loss of someone in the military? So those are kinds of things that we just.

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Try to do as part of the community um now what we're here to talk about this is uh and laura.

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Already touched on, the picture to the left uh is just gives you an idea of the location.

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Of the site and then a little more zoomed in and we'll get into a little more detail here,.

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That's the overall concept for the site now I'll get into that as we continue on through.

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Just I mentioned before that we are in due diligence, so we're still studying the site.

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Trying to determine if we're actually going to purchase the property or not, obviously we're.

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Trying to make sure that, at the end of the day, the project financially makes sense for us. So.

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As a result of that, when we get into due diligence, we dive into it pretty hard, not everybody, probably.

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Looks at it as closely as we have a tendency to do, but we've been out in the field. Our surveyors.

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Have been there, our environmental consultants, et cetera, have been crawling all over the property.

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We have field run, survey field, run topography, we have uh field delineated, wetlands streams, buffers.

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All of those types of things, so we have a pretty good sense of the property and we've already.

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Started looking at conceptually storm management- and things like that so um so I mentioned.

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Actually, I didn't mention this, but the site is actually currently four parcels of land.

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We intend to process this as four separate development plans uh and uh and quite honestly,.

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Kind of works out really well, because the northernmost section is was mentioned is.

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Is really set up for one acre, one acre single family detached and that's what we'll process.

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That part of the site as and then the middle, uh we have the retirement village and then we have.

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What we call a business district and then we have residential to the south. This is our concept plan.

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For the business district, it's about 33 acres, seven, we call flex r d buildings so they'd be.

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Multi-Tenanted buildings I'll show you a picture. What that looks like in a minute and currently.

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Anticipate about 300 000 square feet of a building when we're finished.

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uh The uh you want to go to the next slide. Oh I've got control.

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So this is just a couple pictures of what a flex building looks like the picture on the right.

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Is a newly constructed building and you can see you know we landscape and things like that. Try.

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To provide a front yard and things like that, individual uh entrances to the various tenant.

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Spaces, it's not like where you walk in a building with a lobby and you've got a corridor and things.

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And then the photograph on the left just kind of shows you that's a project down in bowie. That's.

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Probably 15 to it's about 15 years old, so you start to see the landscaping mature things like.

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That this is a project over in middle river called greenlee, also known as baltimore crossroads to.

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The north of this as part of the development that we're developing is, is a mixed use, development, but.

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This is a part, a portion of the property that we refer to as area five and it's uh flex, buildings.

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And the reason that we're showing you this is, it shows the orientation of the building to the.

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Road and these next couple of sites you'll see on there, there's four arrows we're going to show you.

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Some photographs at those four arrows this park started in about 2006. So it's about 15 years old.

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And you'll see we just grabbed those encouraged to see that the county did the same thing. We grabbed.

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Some images from google street view so that you can see as you come along the road there.

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This is the the first picture. There is entrance into a parking lot and you can see the landscaping.

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And such and then the next photograph to the right is that's the entrance to a truck court.

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So we use screen walls and we use landscaping. We try to have enough setback and things that.

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We can get a nice little buffer in there as you drive down the road you're, not looking at the.

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At the back of an industrial building, um quite honestly, we don't really consider these industrial.

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Buildings, even though they fit well into the zone, the third picture, there is another uh entrance.

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Into a parking area, and then the fourth picture is actually a combined entrance on the right.

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Hand side there is a parking area for the front of the one building and then, in the background there.

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Behind the trees, that's actually the rear of a building that fronts on the other road and so.

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That's the loading area so again the point there is just that, as you come through this community.

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You won't really be looking at truck courts as things mature.

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And then, throughout all of our business parks, we always look for opportunities to give people an.

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Opportunity to not so much recreate inside the business park, but to have a place to.

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Go during the day, a lot of people tend to walk in our business parks.

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Whether they work there or they're adjacent to the community and things like that.

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So we try to provide things like pavilions areas to sit down. Sometimes they include picnic tables.

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And things like that and just give kind of a little eyebrow or pocket parks throughout.

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And we do have some opportunities here to provide those types of amenities.

H

So this is what we refer to as the residential north district. It's zoned our 40, as was already.

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Mentioned it's about seven and a half acres, which should deal seven lots.

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Seven single-family detached the um houses, and I want to be clear about this. The way.

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That that shows the house is actually front onto bennett road, but we thought it would be.

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We thought it'd be important if we took the access back into the site.

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And then had a shared driveway and come out at a single point on the bennett road rather than.

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Have a series of driveways coming out under the road, so that's what the intent would be. There.

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And then this just gives you a flavor of these are actually images of a builder that.

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We're working with out at greenlee, I already mentioned the mixed-use development out there.

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It gives you kind of the flavor of the type of units we would expect there.

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I mentioned earlier, quality is important to us, so we focus on. We don't tell people.

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What your house has to look like, we just tell them what it's got to be made out of basically.

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So we focus on the materials and the quality of the materials, and then we do focus on the details.

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How they detail the architecture itself, so these are the kinds of things that we've been successful.

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In other places and implementing that kind of standard, this is the retirement village district.

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It's proposed for 149 units. These would be kind of villa or kind of one story. uh uh I guess you.

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Could refer to them as town homes, but they tend to be one story or two story, uh and uh they are.

H

uh You can see how the proposed layout is there and then in the center of it, uh we've got a.

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Community building, with a with a pool I'll show you a couple images there that on the left, gives.

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You just kind of a flavor again the architecture or something you know the type of look and feel.

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You might you might see as we get with builders and then, on the right hand, side. This is actually.

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A photograph from a project down in howard, county and the community building would be anticipated.

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To have a gym in it and probably like yoga room. Something like that. Not a huge building, but then.

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A swim, a swim facility as well with it, and that would be for the for the retirement village itself.

H

And then to the south, uh the southern district: again, it's r20 zoned.

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34 homes is what we've conceptually laid out there. The main entrance we anticipate will really.

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Be alpha georgetown extended, it will connect into the existing community, but our feeling is.

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This is probably the most logical way to get to these lots and we'll market it from georgetown.

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And then again just gives you a flavor of the types of of homes and architecture and again.

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The details of the the buildings themselves, as well as the the quality of the materials.

H

Now laura already touched on the zoning, so I had a couple slides here that just kind of walk.

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Through the zoning history, if you've already seen it and you got it- then we'll just jump.

H

Through these- and I won't spend time on it- it just showed the evolution over the last few years, so.

H

Okay and then the um just as just a quick slide that shows you where we are as far as density and.

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Such is concerned on the project. The industrial zone doesn't really have a density calculation.

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Associated with it, so we just computed floor area ratio. These buildings are one-story buildings.

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So typically, we get about ten thousand square feet per acre gives a coverage of about 25 or 0.25 far.

H

The r40 to the north uh we're proposing one unit per acre and it's allowed one unit per acre. The.

H

55, I'm sorry the retirement village. uh Those are allowed with the conditional use up to three and.

H

A half units per acre, uh what we've laid out there is about two and a half units per acre.

H

And then the r20 to the south, there, which would be a cluster development, can uh by right, would be.

H

About two units per acre at about one and a half or one point: seven units per acre.

H

um And then just to talk a little bit about the access to the site.

H

uh And we kind of broken this into three category three areas: the northern resident.

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The northern residential district and the retirement village district kind of function.

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As a as a unit, I already mentioned that the single families to the north. There won't access.

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Directly to bennett road they'll have the shared driveway and they'll come into what will be a.

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That road network there's anticipated, be private roads, so they'll access that and then.

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Out to bennett road and the same thing running throughout the running throughout the retirement.

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Village itself, we are proposing a couple of other connection points, whether those will actually be.

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Just for emergency service, entrances or they'll be regular. You know people can come and go that.

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Way some of the feedback we've gotten is we don't want to see traffic move north to south to get.

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The bennett road, especially from the industrial district, so that's a conversation we'll have with.

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The county, as we work through the process and perhaps get some feedback from you all as well.

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We're open to doing it either way. We think it it would be adequately served from the north.

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With the emergency accesses to the south, but we're open to that conversation and then the.

H

The business district, this will be a combination of public roads uh and private roads. Progress.

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Way and georgetown boulevard will be uh public roads and then the other roads that you see kind.

H

Of circulating around the perimeter and up to the residential or the retirement village, those would.

H

Be private roads, the the access for the industrial will be strictly limited to progress in georgetown.

H

There won't be any traffic allowed to go from this district up to bennett road from an industrial.

H

Perspective so certainly no through trucks, perhaps no through traffic at all and then to the south.

H

There's three places where it currently is set up to connect to the existing community.

H

Along middle to the south, one at longmeadow drive one at rolling view and it's slightly.

H

Off the edge of this photograph here, but in the upper right hand, corner is a cedar court. There's.

H

A connection point over there that was laid out on the record plats, so the intent would be to make.

H

Those connections and then have the connection going out to georgetown boulevard, all public roads.

H

And then georgetown boulevard itself. um We were aware of the fact that this is a priority of the.

H

County clearly, it shows on the master plan. I think it was further refined on the on the.

H

Freedom community plan, uh showing it running actually up the west side of the property up.

H

To progress drive their progress way. I apologize. I've got another project, that's progress, drive.

H

uh Progress way, but anyway, so in looking at the site I mentioned, we've been out and we've already.

H

Done, environmental, you know, assessments on the site and everything else we actually have already.

H

Had mde out to the site to look at this potential location for the stream crossing, we proposed three.

H

Different potential locations with six different crossing types at each of those, so a box culvert a.

H

Bridge et cetera- and we got some feedback from mde- that this would be the preferred location least.

H

Environmental impact and it would be a box culvert, which was actually the county's preferred means of.

H

Crossing as well so that's where we would propose to do that, there's maybe some refinements, as we.

H

Go through this, but uh we've we've shared that with mde and they seem comfortable with it at.

H

This point, um so our intent would be the county is working out. There's a circle there to the left.

H

That's the intersection or the the bend point or, however, you want to call it.

H

At london, town in georgetown, you're, probably well familiar with that circle is planned and.

H

Is being designed by public works and then the county also has a plan to extend georgetown to.

H

Hit the property, and then the balance of the road would run through the site and connect.

H

Up with this alignment or something similar to that, and that's what we have so happy to.

H

Take any questions or go back and re-review stuff if you're interested any questions.

B

Yeah, no, I look, we appreciate the um the presentation and it does seem straightforward. It's.

B

An interesting property and the way you've divided it into the separate developments is uh intriguing.

B

The comments that we've gotten on other projects from the community have to do with traffic.

B

Obviously sure- and it looks like you've, given it quite a bit of thought. Obviously it's a working.

B

Process, um the other thing has to do with impacts on schools and that sort of thing.

B

Which is not necessarily you're, not building schools, but um it has an invitation on that. So.

B

That becomes part of the public dialogue right sure um it's public water, public sewer, so that.

B

Part of it is, uh is already established in this area. It's how do we make good use of it? Yep um the.

B

Just a comment: the the residential part of it is our 40 000 that you have across the top and.

B

I think it's our 40 000 on the other side of the street. That's correct, yeah as well. So at least.

H

There seems to be um yeah a nice buffer there facing uh bennett road um as you're driving down.

B

The road you're not looking at a lot of backyards right, which is not uncommon, but it seems to be.

B

Nice that they're oriented toward the road yeah it just I mean it makes sense right, yeah, but but then.

B

You don't have seven different driveways coming out absolutely, which has an impact on traffic.

E

Is the vision of the those uh facing bennett road and the access to like an access lane behind those.

E

Homes, those property owners would be responsible for that room. Would that be a private drive? It'll.

H

Be a private drive. Yes, right that whole northern portion there, the retirement village and the.

H

And those single-family detached uh that would all be private infrastructure at roads anyway, waters.

H

Would be public but yeah, so yep yeah and then obviously the landscaping as it turns out. I've.

B

Seen some of your other projects certainly and the landscaping always looks very nice and certainly.

B

That's part of your presentation here, yeah, that's important to us. um We, you know at the end of the.

H

Day and ed st john always says you know, you spend more time at your office, probably than you do at.

H

Your house, so if you're walking in the front door, you know it's a nice walk, probably won't have the.

H

Same thing as you walk into your office, so we do tend to focus on that and we do find more and more.

H

And it's this product. For us, the flex product in particular, has really evolved over the years and.

H

It's you can literally go around baltimore. I can show you like. Well that's first generation and.

H

We're kind of at fifth or sixth generation, maybe now, but that was one of the things that kind of.

H

Came out of the evolution was the the front yard kind of landscape and, uh and then people want to.

H

Walk in the park, so you need to make sure you provide the sidewalks and, and things like that.

H

um As I said, we get, you know, people walking in our parks as much that aren't part of the.

H

You know the the tenants and things like that um so anyway, just try to make it nice. Have you.

K

Conceptually when we talk about flex space I mean, are you? Are you thinking? This is.

K

16 18 20 foot clear: I mean how how what do you think the ceiling height.

K

Is going to be on these buildings, it's one of the the plan that I have shows a.

K

200 foot deep building in it and a fairly deep truck court you're shared in common. So I'm just.

K

Curious, if that was that that sounds like a warehouse building, that is a warehouse building.

H

um Actually, we would consider that a uh the term we use is floque, it's not a bulk building. It's not.

H

A flex building it's in between, however, that plan, which was the one that we submitted. I don't know.

H

If you noticed on this one, we actually, I think we were showing two a few flex buildings yeah.

K

Yeah, it's substantially different and there's parking a bit more parking right so that.

H

Building when we, when we were when we made that original submittal, we were talking to a company.

H

And laura mentioned before you know they probably don't even know what they're going to put in.

H

These buildings, we don't we build on spec we're speculative builders. We've always been that way.

H

We, what we do is we watch what's going on inside the park and then we say: okay, we're at a certain.

H

Point we're going to build the next building, but in this case we actually had somebody approach.

H

Us unsolicited that was looking to move from a different location and they needed that building.

H

So we said well, let's lay it out, but literally we were able to just replace one with the other.

H

um But our product, typically, we built flex buildings so the minute that that became.

H

Obvious it wasn't going to happen, we just reverted back to what we do. So um you asked about the clear.

H

Height in the buildings, that's a good question. Our typical buildings are 16 foot clear, but.

H

More recently, we've been building 18 foot clear under either scenario. You can't really do racking.

H

Which tends to limit the type of tenants that we have the other thing that limits, meaning we don't.

H

Get as much warehouse type pro you know and and big distribution and things like that and also.

H

Our buildings are only 100 foot deep, so if you need a really big space, that's incredibly long and.

H

Really inefficient, our tenants tend to be and I'll tell you some statistics and you can take those.

H

For what they're worth because then I could point to something completely different, but kind of our.

H

Average size, if you just do the math on it, we're in that kind of 7 500 to 10 000 square foot. But we.

H

Have tenants that take entire 40, 000 square foot buildings um and and they can be of various types.

H

Like we have a company called uh know if they're still trading under this, I think they're l3 now.

H

But it used to be chesapeake science. They came out of annapolis and they're down in the sovereign.

H

Park area and they've got a whole building, but you know they're, basically lab guys right, they're, not.

H

um So it depends so that 18 foot clear tends to limit what goes in there and we just don't.

H

Get the warehousing product because we don't design for it. So it's a great question, though,.

L

Can you go back to the entrance off of bennett which is going to house? I think 156.

L

Homes overall, so the only exit is going to be one to them. So there's actually three access points.

H

um And again, this is open, for I mean we're having these conversations with the county. That's the.

H

Whole purpose of getting out in front of the county, the this would be considered the principal.

H

Entrance to the community would be off of bennett road, but it's actually showing a connection point.

H

On progress way and a connection point that comes down sorry, it's a little shaky for me.

H

Down to georgetown so again, whether those become for emergency access only or they're, actually.

H

You know they're, actually roads, that connect and people drive on regularly.

H

Again, it's trying to strike that balance of making sure that you've got adequate access, at least from.

H

An emergency services standpoint and the concerns that we're hearing about people not wanting this.

H

To be a cut through to get to bennett, road or from bennett road, um and so we're just trying to strike.

H

That balance and we'll we'll figure that out as we go through the process, so that will be a private.

L

Road, those will be private roads, nonetheless right yeah yeah. So so I think my concern is that that's.

L

Just a lot of traffic funneling to bennett it um because 156 times two, it could be quite a few cars.

K

And you know that janice, I think you're on something that we we do need to focus on traffic.

K

Just in general, in the area but more yeah and I'll I'll, just there was an idea flooded by the county.

K

And I don't know whether we have anyone here could answer this question as to where this is in in the.

K

The ether that is our county, um but there was talk about taking progress away and extending that.

K

Across the liberty, athletic fields, at one point and minimizing the the traffic that was coming.

K

Out of bennett um at bennett at 32- and you know, I'm concerned about liberty, high school and and.

K

Preserving those fields, and so I would just ask, is, is there linda do we know? Is that project was that.

K

Just a thought that was just kind of posted out- and this is this is, um and it was a state highway.

F

Project, I'm not sure where it is right now I mean I think the trade-off was the improvements that.

F

Were just done in lieu of that particular proposal? That's I mean it makes total sense that that.

K

Okay, we did this instead of right, because then, because that project has just been completed, it's.

K

It's a better intersection right but again, if we we're forcing a bunch of traffic progress way.

K

Does that elevate that, in terms of what the state is thinking in terms of progress way of 32.

K

Because when we talk about assets for that community and again, there's full disclosure.

K

I live in that community. One of the assets that I'm most concerned about is liberty, high school.

K

You know that creates a sense of community for that area and if we drove progress away.

K

Across those practice fields to connect to johnsville, that's that would be devastating.

K

To that high school I mean it doesn't, kill the high school, but it certainly doesn't help and.

K

So again, I I just want to voice that concern because again um traffic's the issue here. I.

K

Think one one of the my main issues, you know: where is it going to come out who's it going to impact.

K

These these these neighborhoods to the south that or have been cul-de-sacs since all those people.

K

Have lived there, you know, since the beginning of time we're now going to say that you know okay,.

K

The primary collector is georgetown boulevard um and that's the number one way to get in and out.

K

But we know that if, if you live in this area and you're trying to get over to walmart or any.

K

Of those things over in that area, you're, probably taking one of these secondary roads through those.

K

Existing neighborhoods that have been quiet for so long and so we're impacting a lot of people.

B

One of the things that's ongoing is the traffic impact sure yeah.

H

Yeah we've already submitted that, yes, I think I think the good thing about it. I'm sorry, please.

H

Go ahead, I was just going to say: I think one of the good things about this site is there's a lot of options for access and that's why I kind of walked through it.

H

You know I mentioned before we want to be a good neighbor. We try to be as good a neighbor as we can.

H

Because, eventually, we're going to have neighbors that we're gonna bring to town, to be honest,.

H

um And I didn't mention this before, but you know when we, when we develop a site, we don't.

M

Typically, do residential we're, really commercial developers, industrial developers, uh commercial.

H

Developers and so, but when we do have a project, that's got residential in it. I always like to say.

H

We're not residential developers, but I got 3 500 residential units in my pipeline right now, because.

H

I've got: we've got two large mixed use projects, one in prince george's and one in baltimore county.

H

But we brought in partners that really do the residential stuff.

H

And we put controls on the residential inside of our own business, our own communities, because.

H

We want to know long term that the hoa does what it's supposed to do and if it doesn't.

H

We can step in and do that so once we're there and we, you know we're on one side and there's a.

H

New residential community: that's now budding the existing residential community. We're going to be.

H

As interested in making sure that that's good as anybody else is going to be, maybe more so.

H

But as far as the access and things like that and your question about the you know, concern.

H

About the access on the bennett, road and things like that again, obviously we're looking at the.

H

Traffic and we're doing the traffic analysis and that's subject to the state and the county.

H

I guess really the county, with the state uh having its input and we'll go through those.

H

Conversations but the way that the property got zoned the way that you know it was set.

H

Up from the from the freedom area plan and, and then ultimately the zoning you know sets the.

H

Industrial, where it does, and that idea of running residential, develop traffic through an industrial.

H

Zone isn't altogether ideal, so that idea of kind of uh separating them makes you know, makes a fair.

H

Bit of sense, I will say that this plan uh is very much in keeping with what was anticipated.

H

By the freedom plan, meaning that you know there was it would talk about the need for the uh you.

H

Know the 55 plus housing and the uh and the other types of housing, and things like that. So I think.

H

You mentioned it's kind of there's an, I think, there's a nice blend of these things so anyway,.

B

So um I think, just to kind of set the stage um you know. I think we view this as a conversation.

B

Between us, you and the community, and as I voiced we're appreciative of you coming in early and.

B

um Engaging in this conversation and so uh sort of what my expectation is, as we hear public comment.

B

Is that this is a dialogue, you know this is sometimes we we have a plan, that's brought in.

B

It may be pretty far along people are offering comments, and did you think about this and did.

B

You think about that. This is a chance to engage in that dialogue at the beginning of the process.

B

Very very early sure, um and so I think, collaborating and having that sort of.

B

A conversation is really good, so unless we have any other questions from up here,.

B

um I think we'll move on to uh the next item on our agenda, which is the.

B

The general public comment, I think we have a we've, asked people to sign up the one thing that.

B

I will say that I will exercise my prerogative as chair is we do limit the comments? The three.

B

Minutes and I'm going to hold you to that just out of fairness, I want to make sure everybody.

B

Has the same opportunity, if you don't need all three minutes, you don't have to take all three.

B

But um I'm gonna cut you off at three because we want to make sure everybody has a chance to speak.

B

And we don't want to run this into the evening and turn it into an endurance competition. So.

B

With that we'll open it up and we'll walk through the speaker's mountain section absolutely um so we.

F

Have about 15 speakers for this evening, I'm going to call your name when I call your name if you'd.

F

Like to speak and utilize your time, please step up to the microphone and give us your comments.

F

So so, with that, I'd like to call mike bloom mike.

F

And it looks like coal.

F

Okay, um brooks leahy. Thank you um good evening for the record. Jay brooks leahy.

N

Fellaini, lady curtis and murphy, I represent the baby family that owns the property.

N

They're four siblings and they're, each one, 25 percent owners and we've been dealing with st.

N

Johnson very pleased with dealing with them the way they operate. I wanted to briefly discuss some.

N

History concerning the freedom mini plan rezoning, the board may know this, but I think it's worth.

N

Worth talking about, the property was originally recommended for high density, residential.

N

And that was the decision of the planning commission. I think it was a decision that was.

N

Rational but it was a decision that had a lot of opposition to it, a lot of the community. I'm.

N

Sure many of the folks here as well uh were unhappy with that, and so when it got to the.

N

Commissioner level, the commissioners rejected that so after that there was zoning by request.

N

And this property requested to have r20 zoning as well as some c2, and that also became somewhat.

N

Controversial so now, the rezoning that st john's came forward with is resulting in a plan that I.

N

Think is a lot more acceptable to the community. I know I wasn't there, but I understand that st.

N

John's had a sort of a presentation with the help of commissioner ross dean to the community.

N

And whatever these plans, I think the feedback was generally favorable, certainly any way you look at.

N

This plan compared to what could have happened, it's a lot less traffic. It's a lot, less impact.

N

Less impact on bennett, road we've got r40 against bennett road, as opposed to r20 and as.

N

St johnson said: there's a lot of flexibility here with the existing road network to come up with a.

N

Plan that can satisfy folks and it's very early in the development process, but I think you know st.

N

John's in their due diligence really spends a lot of time, looking it over and coming up.

N

With with concepts and ideas that can be a win-win, so we believe this is a good plan.

N

It's in conformance with the objectives of the freedom community, comprehensive plan and.

N

The zoning and it's going to provide a good development for the benefit of the county.

N

Good economic development, so it's our hope. The commission will- and I know.

N

This is going to go on in the future, but we'll look favorably towards this plan and.

N

I finished with 27 seconds to go home. Thank you, councilman all right. Thank you. Next fadre nally.

F

Sorry I apologize phaedra.

O

Good evening and thank you for giving me the opportunity to speak, my name is fade. Rinali.

O

And I'm a 10-year resident of the freedom district living just off of bennett, road.

O

I don't normally get involved in local issues, but I'm finding that if we don't start getting.

O

Involved, we don't have any say in the future of our community in regards to the baby farm.

O

I followed much of the discussions over the past few years and I've reviewed the current proposal.

O

For land use, my understanding just to reiterate seven single-family homes, 149 age-restricted.

O

Townhomes and approximately we'll say, 300 000 square feet of warehouse, space or business space.

O

I'm not here to argue zoning or law, but I am here to hold you accountable to the freedom.

O

Community comprehensive plan from 2018., you stated any increases in land use densities will.

O

Be generally limited in order to mitigate the impact on traffic and existing infrastructure.

O

You're proposing high density housing in an area that already has limited traffic outlets.

O

And crowded schools, you stated recognizing that many citizens came to the freedom area to escape.

O

The trappings of urbanization and surrounding counties, the government will not attempt to.

O

Fundamentally, transform communities against the will of existing homeowners and residents.

O

Recognizing that freedom is the suburban rural area government will respect the character of.

O

The community and its neighborhoods, your proposal has frustrated many residents.

O

Who have moved to this area specifically for the planned recommendations? I've just stated.

O

As is this, land use proposal transforms the character of the bennett road communities.

O

You stated increase the amount of land designated for commercial and light industrial uses in the.

O

Areas targeted for economic development, while freedom is designated an economic development.

O

Area, it already has a high number of both commercial and industrial vacancies and additional.

O

Development will only increase light and noise pollution in residential areas, not to mention some.

O

Of the buildings shown completely lack character, which is commonplace for our part of the county.

O

You stated address the visual appearance and lack of sense of place in freedom's, commercial.

O

Corridors, adding more warehouse space in the center of a residential district does.

O

Nothing to beautify or unite the community. You stated conserve sensitive area lands through.

O

Existing policies and programs and minimize the impact of development upon sensitive areas.

O

Your proposal includes boxed culverts over snowden creek, an area laden with natural wildlife who.

O

Are slowly losing their land and that impact goes over four seasons, not for a single study.

O

As many others have stated, economic development is good for community growth.

O

But cramming development into any plot of land that doesn't add to the character of a community.

O

Is reckless and without foresight, I encourage you to reconsider the land used for the baby farm.

B

Thank you. Thank you. The next speaker, stephen de brockney,.

P

Yes, my name is stephen f degressini. I live off of bennett road, I'm not too distant from.

P

The baby property- and I certainly ain't- share the sensitivities of the previous speaker- had.

P

Elaborated upon at some length just previously, however, I will also point out that the proposal.

P

Or the concept as presented tonight is not so objectionable as other proposals that have been.

P

Floated over the past few years, over the course of the freedom district plan, re-redevelopment.

P

Which was extraordinarily controversial for a number of irregularities and lack of opportunity.

P

For community input, however, looking at this concept, I believe there is an opportunity to.

P

Work in conjunction with a developer, perhaps to mitigate some of these concerns have been raised.

P

Today, assuming of course that the ultimate site plan does not deviate significantly from what's.

P

Been presented tonight also, we don't have to consider what sorts of tenants would be.

P

Eventually, to occupy these commercial or industrial buildings, hopefully not to include.

P

Those that would bring let's say, objectionable, noise or other sorts of pollution or other kinds.

P

Of undesirable impacts upon the residential neighbors that surround this property. I.

P

Finished within 50 of the allotted time. Well done! Thank you all right. Thank you. Next jeff sturgis.

Q

Good evening uh jeff sturgis 5969 shelby court. I have property that touches the east portion.

Q

Of this proposal- and what I heard earlier is this- was one of the largest properties left.

Q

Why'd we have to take it. I don't know, what's wrong with conservation, we talked about there's.

Q

Already been an environmental impact done, what's happened in this area and you know.

Q

Over the course of a few years is we lost the fight and we have the assisted living facility.

Q

That was in the area. We've now lost the fight against this, and we have commercial residential.

Q

Relatively high density housing here, a good bit of it- uh you know one of the largest pieces of vacant.

Q

Property that was left taken, we have on the table the hobie property planned to be taken. This is all.

Q

The open space around this is all conservation area, it's home to a herd of at least 30 deer.

Q

I see them in my backyard daily, it's home to family of fox, it's home, to owls it's home to.

Q

Hawks it's home to a lot of animals, and you know when we look at this singularly it doesn't look.

Q

Bad, but when we put everything together and look at all of these projects, including the.

Q

Potential extension of monroe, where you're going to take the very last piece of conservation area.

Q

When we look at all this together, we've taken away all the conservation, I was looking at the.

Q

Map in the back sure, there's a little bit of green area there surrounding the stream.

Q

The map's a little bit deceiving. It is a very small amount of property that we're leaving.

Q

As far as the impact study, I'm not sure what's involved in that I don't know what maryland mde.

Q

Came out and did, but my seven-year-old spends a lot of time near that stream.

Q

And he's discovered what we think is a relative of the extinct or near extinct, maryland darter.

Q

Anyone look at the street. What kind of assessment are we doing.

Q

I beg both the developers and the county to look at the bigger picture and think about the.

Q

Environment conservation, the animals also that call this home my neighbors here, I'm sure- will.

Q

Talk about their other concerns related to traffic, schools, fire and ems, as well as conservation. I'm.

Q

Going to leave that to them, I have the same concerns, but my real concern is the stream area.

Q

Open space and continuing to take every last piece around I'm a major photographer.

Q

This gets really close to my heart. Thank you guys. Thank you. Thank you. um Next denton gospel.

R

Hello good evening, I'm a long time resident of eldersburg I've lived there. My whole life.

R

The property where you want to put the circle and cut through the beatty property is going.

R

Through my property, I have not been no one has came down and talked to us about this.

R

Now my mother has passed away my sister and I inherited with my aunt, but there's.

R

A lot of concerns about there is there's traffic problems there and it's the noise, the lights and.

R

The environmental thing, like the other gentleman, had said how about the water that the runoff that.

R

Goes from there to liberty, reservoir turns around, is being filtered and then pumps back up and.

R

You're gonna give it to these people as drinking water, but you can't have it polluted, so you.

R

Should be having more boundaries for environmental safety plus, I have some pictures I'd like to show.

R

Of the backyard of my son's property, now you're going to take it and run a road through there.

R

You don't care because it's money in your pocket, that's all you're, worried about.

R

You don't care what it does.

R

You're all about money, I understand that and I really don't object to what they're doing it's. How.

R

They're doing it, the road, like the other gentleman, had mentioned that road needs to be reevaluated.

R

And I believe on one of your slides from the county, it showed the road in a different direction.

R

Not the direction that it's on the plan that I see here now all right. Thank you. Thank you.

F

All right, the next speaker, karen mcfarland.

D

Mark because I don't really know exactly what I'm going to say, but that's my cousin. This is.

D

My mother, and so I don't live in eldersburg anymore, but I grew up there for many years. I.

D

Lived there, that was my grandparents property in the back there, where they, where things are.

D

Going to be affected- and I can tell you many years ago, as a little child playing in my grandparents.

D

At my grandparents house, londontown boulevard came through when londontown uh was built.

D

We had a spring and my grandparent down my grandparents by their barn.

D

And it was supposed to have not been impacted and believe me it was. It was significantly.

D

Demolished- and at that point I'm sure, of course I was a kid- I'm sure that there were studies done.

D

And things like that, that were people who looked at it, but it didn't seem to make a.

D

Difference because it it it ruined the stream, it ruins the um it ruins uh um spring that we.

D

Had so I don't understand all the boundaries and all this kind of stuff, but I do know that.

D

You know a lot of times. Things might look okay on paper, but when it's all said and done.

D

It doesn't turn out that way, and I agree with the gentleman that was talking about you know.

D

The creatures that are going to be affected, I mean there's so many there's so many things, but.

D

That's what me decide, I think I'm going to say something because I remember as a child playing.

D

In the woods having fun and then how, after they changed it, how much different things.

D

Were thank you. The next speaker, joyce klein.

L

Well, uh I've been there just about my whole life too, and that's longer than theirs.

L

It does have a very sentimental value to us.

L

And to think that there's going to be a road taken through that property there in the bottom and.

L

It's very heartbreaking, plus also that one yes, the one gentleman talked about the animals.

L

I I can't understand why I mean this is the one mr beatty. I knew mr beatty and uh I don't think.

L

He would want our eldersburg area to be impacted. Like this I mean I can understand, building some.

L

Houses and this that and the other, but why does it have to be so impacted so so much and.

L

Yes, this is someone said that this was the only area, only property in this area. That is.

L

You know not multiplied and commercialized shall we say so what's wrong with that.

L

What's wrong with that, I mean, like I said: I've lived here in carroll county, my whole life and.

L

My goodness, it's it's not like it, it's not the country that it used to be it. It's just absolutely.

L

Positively heartbreaking- and yes, especially, you know, if you want to get the the idea that they're.

L

Going to put a rotate- and this is something that I and I talked to my nephew denny about quite a bit.

L

It's our property. How can someone the county or whoever come in and just.

L

Take it over, you know that doesn't make sense at all. That doesn't make sense at all. To me.

L

I I just but I'm from the old country, the old world, and I I just I just don't. I don't.

L

Understand I don't especially don't understand that we don't want that property destroyed.

L

And I think what what they're going to do with mr babies and I think mr bailey's name.

L

Has two d's in it, not one. I might be wrong, but anyway, um oh gosh. What was I gonna say.

L

I can, I can understand wanting to develop. You know develop a little bit, you know, but why to.

L

This extent this big, you know, make it keep our county, but it's always been more rural, okay,.

B

Thank you all right. Thank you. Next speaker, phil martin.

A

Situation? Okay, when they built londontown boulevard.

A

They put londontown london foggy in action and all that property and their spring heads over there.

A

They closed off and they run the water across under georgetown boulevard onto our grandparents.

A

So when we were kids, there's a trickling stream now there's a ditch that you can stand in and get.

A

Lost that there was never there so we're right across there all the time that whole field is.

A

Opened up from that all the way down there, where used to be trickling now it's that and then on the.

I

Other side, like my sister, said, there's another spring they're springing up this end. It filters.

A

Into that, their water comes across and cut it out about as deep as I am and about as wide goes all.

A

The way down and turns the corner there's another spring head down there when you guys came and put.

A

The water and sewage down, if you wanted out there, that's when you have the best friendship and.

A

This road is going to go over top of that spring head and more for you to get it in there and all.

A

The babies probably down through there is wetlands all beats. So I'm hanging right across all that.

A

To put this road in doesn't make any sense, and I don't think that's a serious impact. Of course. The.

A

County and everybody can always do whatever they want to do, but it affects us and our.

A

Progress and it's just not right right, so thank you. Thank you. Next speaker, barb nolan. That's me.

G

It's a lot easier for me to sit here. Let me get up and stand over there. I'll talk loud.

G

I just have a couple comments. One I'd like to know why, when the surveyors did their survey.

G

Why did they give us the stream that stream's? Not all my plan is not on any of my deeds, but yet I've.

G

Got the stream my neighbor phil has the stream and we don't own the stream. That's part of it.

G

The other part, I can't believe we have enough water supply and the sewage plant.

G

I mean that's a big concern when the sheep farm sold 1.5.

G

Million uh I was told, then, that we were in a red water zone.

G

I I can't believe well I, and I know why todd's doing it, but.

G

I just can't believe that everybody in the development is gonna stand for this.

G

I I don't understand, I mean it was bad enough when the sheep farm so, and I called- and I said.

G

How did it sell when we were in a red water zone? They replied to me was well.

G

That's the old commissioners. We have new ones now.

G

So I don't know if I can say too many good things about the new commissioner.

G

I you know if I have to I'll get all the neighbors together. I know we can't protest, we'll be arrested.

G

We lay down in front of the equipment, I don't want my home.

G

You know anybody that comes to my house would go out on my back deck and everybody says the.

G

Same thing, it's like you're in a retreat. It is so pretty and calming and peaceful and where's the.

G

Runoff point because my property slants downhill just like todd's- does to the stream that stream.

G

Feeds liberty, reservoir, okay, our drinking water, where's where's, the runoff, going from all the new.

G

Blacktop and the homes and everything else into the stream- I don't know, I think it's disgusting.

F

All right, the next speaker, diane robinson.

F

Okay, um then phillip lindmeyer, oh, he left. He had okay uh procedure done this morning and he was.

G

Getting tired, okay, thank you um he's my neighbor and I know he feels the same way. I do.

G

And we still want to know why baby gave.

G

Us the stream, because it would mess up his plans, is that it because of the runoff.

F

Okay, the next speaker, I'm, I apologize if I have a hard time with your name, but it looks like w grant.

F

Okay, excuse me.

S

I only have one real comment and that is, I live on rolling view drive the county is going to have to.

S

Create two new roads that are on the map, as proposed one is longmeadow and the other.

S

One is sunshine or whatever it is. My comments are this. I would like to ask several questions.

S

Several years ago we were told that the lower part of the beatty property had some rare.

S

Type of live life- I don't know what kind of animal or fish or whatever and.

S

It could not be built on well that stream runs the whole length of the baby property. What's.

S

What are they going to do with that? The second question is: where are you going to get the water.

S

Carroll county doesn't own the water rights to liberty, lake.

S

And we were told that there was a limit on the water. So where are you going to get your water.

S

And the same way goes with the sewage. Where are you putting your sewage plant? We were told.

S

County had to put that up so now the county is going to get stuck with sewage, with water.

S

And now you've got conservation, which you probably forgot about and that's it I'm done.

B

Right, thank you all right and then the last speaker for the evening is mark krebs.

M

Good evening mark krebs live off at bennett, road.

M

I shared many of the sentiments that the other speakers have made and I think traffic for me.

M

Is number one and uh you know I shared janice kirkner's comments about the 156 retirement homes.

M

And you know times two: you could have that many people coming out there on the bennett, road and.

M

The the preliminary plans I heard about of having the the single family homes fronting.

M

Bennett road- that's great, I think that's that's a good thing, but I thought that also.

M

Took into account the traffic but with having 156 retirement bills coming out being their main.

M

Access well that kind of wipes out the uh what we thought was a good traffic outcome for this.

M

um And so I think that the traffic is, as everybody said, traffic is uh the big issue here. um You know.

M

The county for as long as I've been here, which is 37 38 years, hasn't done a good job of upgrading.

M

uh County roads, whether it's oklahoma bennett, obviously the the folks that live on longmeadow.

M

And rolling view where it's essentially, for all intents and purposes of single lane, roads.

M

So that they have traffic going through there, that's going to really impact their communities.

M

The other thing that some others have touched on is the open space.

M

Concept, it's you know you do think about. Eldersburg is okay. Let's just keep.

M

Building and cramming and jamming- and um you know we don't seem to have any plans for.

M

Open space or parks uh etc, and I think that's something that the planning commission should.

M

Really look into and and we've got this huge big piece of property here. Certainly there should be.

M

uh A spot to uh to have some open space and to have a park or something along that way.

M

The other thing that I just remembered, it seems to me that there's a burial ground on this property.

M

Somewhere, I don't know whether that's been taken into account. I didn't know exactly where it is.

M

But certainly uh you know that should be something that should be uh looked into.

M

um But I hope once again, you know once again to go back to the traffic. That's to me is is number one.

M

And um something we need to do with now the having lived there. You know the existing uh warehouses to.

M

Me have been there, you know they're below grade off of bennett. You know, frankly, they've been a.

M

Good neighbor, you know I have no complaints about that. So if the warehouse is going to somehow be.

M

Kind of a quiet, uh essentially a quiet neighbor- that you don't see too much of that. You know.

M

Wouldn't be a that wouldn't be a bad thing if something's got to go there, if it's going to be.

M

uh Like like what we have now so thank you very much. Thank you all right. That concludes.

F

Everyone who has uh signed up to speak this evening, all right, very good. Thank you, madam.

B

Secretary and thank you all um for participating tonight, stay part of the dialogue would be my.

B

My suggestion, because it is an ongoing conversation and the conversation can.

B

Impact what happens and how it happens with that we'll move to item eight, which is adjournment.

B

Second, all in favor all right, we stand adjourned. Thank you all very much.

B