Carroll County, MD FY 20 Carroll County Budget Process, 28 Feb 2019

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From YouTube: Board of County Commissioners Open Session Thursday ~ February 28, 2019 PM

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FY19 Budget Update

A

All right, good afternoon, we are back when we are back with our budget update.

A

And our director of management, budget, ted zaleski so good afternoon, you're not.

B

Going to wait for the crowd, it's here go ahead.

B

All right in no particular formal way, I offer you guys a lot of updates on.

B

Things that are going on and we've tried to do this from time to time and just.

B

Never seem to get a real good schedule, but those just stopping in to say given.

B

A point in time: how are things looking as we move through the budget year.

B

Remembering the exact numbers I'm going to tell you is really not gonna, be.

B

Important, it's just more to give you a sense of how things are planning out.

B

Right right now, when we look to the end of fiscal year 19 and say what do we.

B

Think our ending position will be and remember. We still have a long way to go.

B

A lot of things could happen. Is this just what we know now we would figure to.

B

End up with about 5.9 million dollars left over at the end of the year about.

B

200,000 of that would be a contribution from revenue. The rest of it is because.

B

We're saying there's money, it was appropriated that we don't believe will be spent. Now. I remember every year in your budget, you're.

B

Assuming that money is going to be left over from a previous year to carry.

B

Forward into next another year for 21, that would be three point: nine million.

B

Dollars from fiscal year 19, so if we end up with five point, nine three point: nine.

B

Is already earmarked meeting week, we would expect to end up without two.

B

Million dollars, which would be available to save or make other choices.

A

You're always so for excitement. I can only give pauses there well ya. Coulda.

C

Went the other way, good news? It's it's, not wonderful news, but it's good and.

D

It's not bad. It's not negative news on the prop on the revenue side, we're.

B

Basically, saying is right: now: we're gonna come in and about budget property.

B

Tax, we think, will be about a million dollars up. Seven hundred thousand that.

B

Or so is because new construction was actually greater than an assumption that.

B

We made and the other 300,000 is rail route and public utilities. We don't get.

B

A lot of information on this and sometimes numbers change in ways we.

B

Can't explain, but this year it was a positive change. Income tax is the big.

B

Story, you know right now we're saying we could end up about flat or about on.

B

Budget but we just got our second major distribution, disappointing.

B

The big story there is that with holdings and estimated payments are down.

B

Against our budget, all the other stuff is not about what's happening today. It's.

B

About what happened last year or two two years ago, so the thing we'd really like.

B

To see the good news on, we didn't get it looking ahead to the end of year on.

B

Income tax is challenging almost to the point of absurdity. I can't tell you with.

B

Any confidence where we're gonna end up and yeah. I think it is literally true.

B

That we could still end up here- five million dollars to the good or five.

B

Million dollars to the bad there's just so many unknowns that I can't tell you.

B

And I was really hoping that this was going to be a stronger distribution.

B

We've been coming off, you know two or three in a row and have.

B

Some sense that we're heading somewhere consider where tonight we're talking.

B

Briefly, before we started, the state is going to be releasing their new revenue.

B

Projections, probably in the next week or so.

B

There's rumblings that they're going to be writing down their revenue projections we'll be interested to hear what actually comes to that and what is.

B

Driving their thinking, recordation is our third biggest revenue. Although.

B

Nowhere near the size of the top two we had seen recordation dropped.

B

Precipitously during the recession and following it's been starting to come.

B

Back it's hard to know, you know where we thought that would level off. We think.

B

Maybe we're finding out where it's leveling off and that's a little bit short of and what we had been been assuming so we're figuring now about.

B

Half a million dollars less than budget at the end of the year. I have to say.

B

They're, even even this one is not a nice neat, drawing the line. The last couple.

B

Months of the year can sometimes suddenly give us a lot more than we were.

B

Counting on or a lot less than we were counting on cable franchise, fee revenue.

B

Is not a big revenue? I just mentioned this because we've been talking for.

B

Years about the possibility that this would become a flat or declining revenue.

B

And in fact, it's sometime if the big telecoms are successful, this might just.

B

Go away entirely, but the community media center is.

B

Overwhelmingly dependent on this, this revenue we've actually seen it decline.

B

This year now it's not enough information to say: we've started a new.

B

Path downward, but it's certainly interesting. We haven't seen this happen.

B

Before but we have this about a hundred thousand dollars under budget right now,.

B

So not a lot of dollar impact, but something to be watching another.

B

Relatively small one, but worth mentioning we got killed on the wine.

B

Festival this year, with with the we got about 230, that a couple hundred.

B

Thousand dollars less revenue than we would have anticipated on the.

B

Expenditure side we see right now about 1.1 million unexpended in public works.

B

That's largely salary savings, but also utilities and fuel we've been having.

B

Good experience on the cost of our fuels and utilities sheriff we're looking at.

B

Maybe a couple hundred thousand over budget. This is connected to over time.

B

Fortunate, we don't have a lot of detail to you know dig into this, but we think.

B

This is primarily about staffing, the training academy and getting police.

B

Officers into the schools before we have all the sros hired and trained another.

B

Half million dollars or so of savings in a number of places reserved for.

B

Contingency, we still have about four million dollars sitting there. Now our.

B

Snow removal budget, where we still haven't fully accounted for everything.

B

That's happened so far, but we think we're about to the point where we've.

B

Spent what was budgeted so if tomorrow turns into something- or there are other.

B

Events that will start to eat into our reserve for contingencies, but right now.

B

It's got four million dollars still sitting there. The snow removal is not in.

C

The pw that you just mentioned, if you know, is or is it a separate line item.

C

Specifically designate for snow removal, yes, and actually we call it storm.

B

Emergencies, it's primarily about snow removal, but it's also about washouts and.

B

Trees down and things like that, in fact, I'm glad that we.

B

There we got off to a bad start this year, with the heavy rains early in the.

B

School year we were dealing with a lot of wash outs and trees down and then the.

B

Dam breach at cascade, we spent a good bit of money on, and so we spent a lot.

B

More before we even reach the snow season than we typically would in other.

B

Years I just wanted to briefly mention solid waste. This would go back to the.

B

Last board, so commissioners, boucher and rothstein, I don't know if you're aware.

B

Of this yet, but the commissioners approved a plan to reduce the amount of.

B

Solid waste we were transferring out of the county and to bury more about in the.

B

Landfill that was connected to buying a new compactor that would the hope was.

B

Allow us to put more in without actually taking up more space, but this was all.

B

Supposed to lead to an idea of solid waste fund, building up some funds toward.

B

Other moves in the future because of the change of the recycling market and.

B

Because of again, the heavy rains and the amount of leachate being produced in the.

B

South and in the landfill which we that need to take somewhere what we would.

B

Have hoped was going to be a valid accumulation of 1.5 million dollars? This.

B

Year is looking like more like a half million dollars, so we're gonna be to the.

B

Good, but if you don't look another layer behind that, you wouldn't see that it.

B

That that's really just covering up the problem yeah, so we are not accumulating.

E

Money at the kind of rates that we would have hoped for.

B

Oh yeah, something to come. We don't have hard numbers on this, yet both the.

B

Recovery support services facility, we are bidding this out again did an.

B

Evaluation of the facility- and we believe, there's work that we're going to.

B

Need to do to put it into an appropriate condition to hand off to the next vendor.

B

Right now we have a preliminary estimate about $60,000.

B

That's not budgeted anywhere. So if this happens, we would be coming to you to.

B

Look for a transfer which would be you know, another hit against the reserve.

B

Okay, unless there's questions, that's that's all I wanted to share with you.

B

Kind of it's a snapshot, look! Okay! Then. Next up, there's two actions. We're.

B

Looking for you to take one, you had to prove to transfer of $10,000 to the tech.

B

Biz is tech after you, after you prove that there was some more conversation.

B

And that kind of led to well- let's not, let's hold off on that, which eventually.

B

Led to no we're not happy with way things are going, let's not move that.

B

Money to them, so you took an action to move the money. It never actually got.

B

Moved because of the continuing conversation, but what we need you to do.

B

Now is to take an action to say the action we took saying, move the money.

B

Needs to go away so when someone was this all decided right, so the money's.

B

Never been moved so you don't need to do a budget transfer but they're still.

B

Hanging out there, you know you basically took a vote to say, move the money so.

D

Where's the move when you get moved back to it, never it never moved anywhere. Well,.

D

Was it from oh, it would have come out the reserved for contingent okay. So you.

F

Need a motion to leave the money in mazurka first well, actually, the motion.

B

Needs to be, I don't have to reverse or retract operating resolution 19.0. One.

B

What he said, oh second, wait a minute. We got to do it officially here.

A

I'll make a motion to retract resolution. Nineteen point: zero. One is probably made.

F

By commissioner l sex, except for that.

A

Okay, did you want to get something ed? I got a sales. Did you alright, all in favor.

A

Aye, okay, okay! So now we're basically at a.

B

Point as if it had never happened, okay, alright and then we need. We need your.

B

Approval for a capital transfer- this is in connection with the project at.

B

Harrisville and gilles falls where the state made some improvements for safety.

B

Purposes you provided funding out of a capital project that we have set up.

B

Called transportation state projects, we didn't have this information when the.

B

Project started but eventually became clear. There was going to need to be the.

B

Move we'd need to move some utilities. There was a cost of twenty eight.

B

Thousand seven hundred fifty nine dollars and eighty cents what we're.

B

Suggesting is moving that additional amount out of that same transportation.

B

State projects project to the harrisville gillis falls project now is.

C

It, why are you proposing it's not keeping w.

C

Or is this not a dpw action? Well, the this has already happened. I mean they.

B

Could come in to talk about this, but we were coming in to do some of this budget.

B

Update and cleanup, so it just seemed like a place to take care of it. The.

B

Money's already spent the project is already done, we're really just getting.

B

The money in the right place now the money spent was authorized to be special.

B

Yes, what's the amount again, twenty-eight thousand seven hundred.

B

Fifty nine dollars and 80 cents now or do you need to move from it, be going.

B

From capital project, eight six to nine transportation state projects to the.

B

Harrisville gillis falls project number, eight, seven, four, zero I'll, try a.

F

Motion to move twenty, eight thousand seven hundred fifty nine dollars and.

F

Eighty cents from project eight, six, two: nine to project eight, seven, four: zero.

F

I'll second, it well done any other questions on that. You guys know what.

A

That project was right, yeah, I'm very grateful. Okay, very important of my.

G

Constituents I avoid that intersection on my motorcycle. Okay, move extremely.

G

Dangerous, I'm so happy yeah, okay, all those in favor, alright, okay, okay and now.

B

It's not the time to take this up, but just to plant a seed in that project where we moved the money from. If we've talked about this in the past and I'd.

B

Like to renew the conversation, the the project was set up to help spur state.

B

Projects for things like route, 26 route, 32 route- 97- I don't believe the thinking.

B

At the time was to use it like we did for this sort of project, although it was.

B

A state project, I think one of three things needs to happen. We need to change.

B

What we believe the scope of this project is to say it is our intent to.

B

Use it for projects like this to recognize that the amount of money.

B

That's going into it is never going to be enough to make the state move on 26.

B

Or 32 and increase the amount of money we're putting into it or to recognize.

B

That it's not going to be enough money and quit putting money into it. So again,.

F

Not a conversation for today, but just in the current plan we have two hundred.

B

Thousand in each year's fiscal year, twenty twenty one and twenty two and we.

B

Just spent three three hundred and some thousand out of it, you know, what's in.

B

E

Yeah, listen in a million. These are create hundred thousand eight hundred.

H

Thousands what's remaining, it was one point where this okay.

B

So there's about eight hundred thousand dollars there with another six hundred.

B

Over three years planned to go in one point: four million dollars is not gonna.

B

Make one of those projects happen? You know, but uh I think, having conversation.

C

With em don sha on what would be those thresholds to have them match on a.

C

Specific project on 3226 is important because we could say: yes, it ain't the 15.

C

Million necessary to do a match with the state, but it may be close enough to get.

C

Us to where we want to go with this and I'd, I don't know, but having that.

C

Conversation which I'm going to be having soon with them to understand what.

C

Would kind of move the needle to get em project in place themself and certainly.

B

Those are good conversations to have. I think what you're gonna find, though, is they're talking millions or tens of millions. You know hands of thousands, but.

F

They said you know one of the options, for you would be to say we want to.

B

Commit more resources to this. I think you having a conversation first, I.

C

Apologize before talk about committing anything, you know it's a is the prudent.

C

Thing to do oh yeah, absolutely, okay, now we're shifting gears a little.

B

Bit here to talk to you about county of infrastructure. First, I want to mention.

B

Heidi pepin is here our longest-tenured budget, analyst she's she's with us.

B

Because she's been kind of shepherding this this project, although it is the.

B

Work of the entire budget office- and I don't know how many people in the.

B

Various agencies who are involved, I'm actually gonna kind of quickly run.

B

Through a presentation that I've already done for three of you just as a reminder.

B

For the three, and so the other two can can hear it for the first time to talk.

B

About what is it that we're talking about at all and then we're going to get.

B

Into three specific pieces with more more useful information about okay, what.

B

Are we gonna do with this so.

B

Infrastructure, a really big way. What we're talking about is you know how do.

B

We get our arms around this idea of the stuff that we own and and what that.

B

Means for us so what's what's the goal here and actually I have a half-dozen.

B

Goals- I think that one is we want to know what we have. We want to figure out.

B

Everything that that's out there and that book just by itself is a big still.

B

Incomplete job we've learned a lot that we don't have everything we want yet.

B

You're working on that, though, aren't they? Yes, we are. We want to understand of.

B

All those things we own, how long do we expect them to be here.

B

Not used to working left-handed, you think I could keep left and right and.

B

Forward and backward straight but apparently not, and then we want to.

B

Understand what do we think it's gonna cost when something does need to be.

B

Replaced or renewed what is that gonna cost us? Then we want to assess- and this.

B

Is a very theoretical kind of idea here: what's the average annual amount we need.

B

To fund over many years these pieces of infrastructure, then we want to start.

B

Building implementation plans for funding and renewing moving from a.

B

Theoretical, what's going to take to say what are we actually going to do and.

B

Then I want to come out of this process an ongoing process for discussion about.

B

How are we gonna fund this and how is renewing our infrastructure going to.

B

Work- and it won't be too deep into this before you start to develop some sense.

B

That, once we identify all this, we might not be in a position to simply act on.

B

All of it and might not be is really a pretty generous sector. We're gonna find.

C

We will not be in position to act at all, so maybe semantics, but for me to.

C

Understand it best that last bullet seems to me to me is the goal, the other.

C

Five are objectives to get us to that goal.

C

Okay reason is, we won't know when we hit success. You know when, if you turn this.

C

To a poll so again it's my get me said military experience in planning, but.

C

Because the baba kazan was waiting to see how do I know when their success and.

C

The bottom bullet, that is, the success that is building the process necessary.

C

To do things we want to achieve yourself appreciate it thanks.

B

So I talked about our infrastructure. What am I talking about very in the.

B

Highest-Level way, I'm saying everything we own that we think we're gonna have to.

B

Replace someday I'm calling them all that infrastructure. Now we could argue.

B

Over exactly what infrastructure means, but I'm just saying that's that's what.

B

I'm working now there are big obvious things: maybe you go out there you're.

B

Driving on a road, you know it's there, you drive by at school. You know it's.

B

There there are smaller things that are pretty obvious to you know your kid goes.

B

Played in a top pot yeah, it's there you're having your lunch in a pavilion.

B

You're on a walking trail, then there are things that aren't obvious at all and.

B

Some like storm drains are out of sight. You, don't you don't see them. You.

B

Probably don't think about them very much, except when we have a pipe of.

B

Collapse, there's a hole in the road and now the roads shut down. I'm not gonna go.

B

Into all the detail of this, I'm just gonna speed through this. For now, because.

B

The detail is going to be coming in these other presentations. I just want.

B

What you be thinking about the the breadth of what I was talking about when.

B

I talk about inter structure, we have roads, bridges, senior, centers technology.

B

Technology people usually think in terms of using technology, for what I'm talking.

B

About is, you know, the computers, the monitors, the cabling, the routers, the.

B

Switches the servers all the stuff that we can actually touch and, at some point.

B

Have to buy again our fleet six libraries was a multi building community.

B

College campus county office buildings, we have this building, we have the burke.

B

Building we have the robert moton building, we have the courthouse annex.

B

We're about to build and headquarters for the state's attorney.

B

A fiber network, you were all talking about access to to fiber and broadband.

B

But if we need to recognize that's a tangible thing that will not last by.

B

Itself forever, that's an interesting one, though we have had discussions where.

B

They say by the time we need to fully replace a fiber network. Maybe we will.

B

Have moved on to other technologies and fiber is no longer relevant. We don't.

B

Know that yet schools, now we don't know the schools they're, not technically our.

B

Infrastructure but the school system owns it, but they don't have any money to.

B

Renew their infrastructure, just like their operating budget, they're dependent.

B

On the state and on us for the funding to make that happen,.

B

Storm water fund, so we have a firearms facility, a landfill, a maintenance.

B

Facility union mills, parks and parks means a lot of different things. You have.

B

Playing fields: nature, center's, pavilions trails, top bots courts; the sports.

B

Complex, which is kind of its own thing, good, you know talking about parks, is.

B

Actually one of the more complicated pieces of this, because you have so many.

B

Different things, storm drains and pipe crossings. Now some of you have heard me.

B

Say this before, but when we started digging into this one of the things that.

B

Really got me thinking when I heard heard we have almost 1 million linear.

B

Feet of storm drains. That's! Oh! That's a lot of storm drain. The parking lots.

B

Entrance drives, let so a tensions rise. You think about things like the road up.

B

To the ag center or the road from route 26 back to masky park, farm museum, water.

B

And sewer with pumping stations, treatment plants got the big water tanks.

B

Pipes, manholes and a whole or it's a work in progress, but we have.

B

The public safety training center, our mute emergency communications network.

B

And this is not a list of everything, but just I wanted to give you enough to get.

B

You thinking, okay, yeah, there's a lot of stuff. We need to be thinking about now.

B

It might be reasonable to say: okay. Well, us all makes sense. Why haven't we done.

B

This already and part of the answer is for years for decades, really we were.

B

Very focused on creating infrastructure or not not renewing it yeah, as we were.

B

Building our way through the 70s and 80s and 90s a lot of what we're talking.

B

About was was going down, the roads were being built, the storm drains were being.

B

Put in the schools were being built, and ideally we would have been dealing with.

B

Both things, but even during those boom times there wasn't unlimited money and.

B

You talk about schools. The focus was very much on providing enough capacity.

B

So that there were enough seats for kids and if you go back to the facility.

B

Master plans that the board of education would have been approving those years. I.

B

Mean they always recognize the need for modernizations of schools, but those were.

B

Not the highest priorities, the next capacity project was the highest.

B

B

To a great extent, you know as if, even as that, infrastructure aged we've been.

B

Taking care of problems as they emerged, you know it's only in recent years that.

B

We started talking about the need for a more comprehensive way of dealing with.

B

Us in let's say in recent years, we probably we've been talking about this.

B

Word a half dozen years, maybe and the reason it hasn't, moved along more.

B

Quickly is, this is a really big time consuming job, and you know the reality.

B

Of it is we find little cracks in time and we do a little bit of it at a time.

B

It's not just about the budget office time. It's about all the agencies who are.

B

Actually, the ones dealing with all this infrastructure. They only have so much.

B

Time available to so we've been working out at asthma, canyon and even today,.

B

We're coming to you with three pieces, but this is just the beginning and I.

B

Don't know how long to tell you it's gonna take before we get through all of.

B

The pieces- I am talking about the other agencies, you know I'm here with you know.

B

Part of the budget office, but eventually my expectation is this- would be less.

B

About us and more about the agencies that they will be here talking to you.

B

About the infrastructure that they need to maintain and here's the funding, I.

B

Have here's the need, what choices are we gonna make? Now it's always going to be.

B

Part what we have to deal with, because in the end, it's about not the money but.

B

The primary focus will need to be on public works, talking about storm drains.

B

Or wrecking pardons to help continue about pavilions. So how are we.

B

Approaching this and there's two different ways: we're looking at this: the.

B

First is average annual funding needed. This is a really a very theoretical.

B

Number, because the average is never well in most cases, is never going to be the.

B

Right number: we have some things like our road maintenance program.

B

Pretty much does work as an average we're putting in a relatively constant.

B

Amount of money and we're doing the projects as they happen. But when you're.

B

Talking about schools or parks or no other examples popping in my mind, it.

B

Tends to be lumpier yeah. You need to yeah you're doing this much this year.

B

This much this year, this much the next and the second way we want to look at it.

B

Is a real-life implementation timeline with the average funding it doesn't.

B

Matter what you did last year or what's planned for next year, because you're.

B

Talking about what does this look like over decades, with the real-life.

B

Implementation, it doesn't matter what you did next year, because if that has a.

B

30-Year life you're not talking about that one for another 29 years and you.

B

Need to be thinking about what are the ones that are coming up in the years.

B

That we're planning for it. Then we want to get to a point where we can compare.

B

For all these pieces of infrastructure, what's the average annual funded needing.

B

Funding needed compared to how much money we're actually putting into the.

B

Budgets and and here's where I'm saying you know I don't know the answer to that.

B

Yet but in a general way, I'm pretty sure I know the answer is we're gonna find.

B

Out the need is greater than what's going in and then we need to start.

B

Talking about the implications of that, what choices are we going to make and.

B

Once this is in front of us, they're gonna be hard choices to make. Once you.

B

Know we're not putting it enough to maintain that piece of infrastructure.

B

It's it's hard to just say: oh well, we'll just see how things work out, but it's.

B

Very unlikely, you're gonna have enough money to be able to say. Ok, we've.

B

Identified it, let's take care of all of it,.

B

I kind of jumped ahead of myself and I already talked about this slide and you.

B

Know when I talk about you know lumpiness. This is nothing real just to.

B

Give it how to think about it. You know, if you look at each one of those points.

B

As being how much will we need to fund in that year? You know if you've figured.

B

Out the average of me some years where they're gonna fund you're gonna need less than the average and something we're gonna need more now we can set up.

B

A process where we would plan to budget the appropriate amount in each year, a.

B

Problem with that is in those high years, you'll be left to say.

B

Are we gonna be able to identify that much money when we get there? The other.

B

Way, you could do it is in those low years, say: okay, we're gonna, set money.

B

Aside, so we're prepared for those high years that will always be challenging.

B

Because you will always be faced with needs in that year, that could be solved.

B

With that money in that year, what we're proposing to you will never be right.

B

There's too much we don't know there are variables we can't control we're. Never.

B

Gonna be able to tell you, okay, commissioners, this is how it's going to.

B

Work- and there are things that we know we're gonna have to deal with. You know.

B

Prices will change. You know with a lot of this. Asphalt is a big part of what.

B

We're talking about with our roads and our paving and asphalt prices can be.

B

Very volatile we're in a fairly good time right now, but we've been at times.

B

Where it's like, okay, we budgeted through two million dollars for this project.

B

Asphalt just went up 30%, we need another four hundred thousand dollars for this.

B

Project the urgency of projects will change yeah, we're gonna plan this as.

B

Best we can, but sometimes we'll find priorities have changed. Maybe your.

B

Priorities have changed or something we thought we could wait. Five years isn't.

B

Going to wait five years, we need to deal with it in the third year. Sometimes you.

B

Know we're gonna say we believe this has an average life in 30 years. Sometimes.

B

It's not gonna go for 30 years. Sometimes it might be able to wait longer than.

B

Thirty years we won't know until we get there, some replacements will change in.

B

Nature during the building boom for schools, we did a lot of what they call.

B

Single ply roofs, which is a relatively inexpensive way of doing the roofs.

B

Unfortunately, they don't have as long the life as other ways. The reason we did.

B

That was, there was the need for the buildings. There was only so much money.

B

And that was the choice that was made at the time we are now, as we've been.

B

Replacing those single plies we've been moving to what they call built up. Roofs.

B

Or even to metal roofs which will have much longer lives, so our calculations.

B

Will change as each one of those roofs moves that average annual number is.

B

Actually going to decrease because we're gonna get longer longer lives. We have.

B

Things like in recent years, we've been using a relatively new technology to.

B

Line pipes in our water and sewer system at one time, pipes that we would have dug.

B

Up and physically replaced, we are, we are lining without having to go through that.

B

The more that we do, the more our calculations will change. There will be.

B

Other things like that that we can't even anticipate now and then there's.

B

Other things that happen, like our emergency communication system, used to.

B

Be an analog system. It's now a digital system. What we were planning for back.

B

Then has less than full relevance for what we're planning for today. Other.

B

Things like that will happen.

B

You know some other considerations, even if we have the money available to do.

B

More for the infrastructure, there are things that might get in the way of us.

B

Doing that do we have enough employees to do the work that is necessary to get.

B

These projects in place will there be enough vendor contracting capacity.

B

Available out there to handle the work and we've been here with road before.

B

They're been tough with times where we said well, why don't we put more money.

B

Into the roads program, but one of the things we have to think about was is.

B

There anybody out there to handle the work more funding for infrastructure.

B

Could lead to increased operating costs? I talked about impact on staff. You might.

B

Find if you really want this to happen, you have to hire additional positions so.

B

Now you've got additional ongoing operating costs, along with the new.

B

Capital costs and then we need to think about the implications if we can't or.

B

Don't provide the funding, we know these things have limited lives. The tot lot.

B

Willow last so long, either it gets replaced or it has to get torn down.

B

Bridges are a tougher one. You know a taut lot going away might make some on.

B

People some people unhappy a bridge going away means a road connection is no.

B

B

So today was really to get the conversation started to get you thinking.

B

About these things, we're gonna be coming back, including in just a couple of.

B

Minutes to start talking about all the pieces, this last bullet is what am I.

B

Again, beaten down hopes, I thought this is something we'd be able to accomplish.

B

That well will not be happening, no matter what comes with us specifically.

B

In the end, I think we'll be better off for having a better understanding of our.

B

Infrastructure for knowing what it is we have and where it is, we will have better.

B

Quantified, even if we can't do it, what it would take to renew the.

B

Infrastructure we will have developed the collaborative process between the.

B

Budget office and the service providing agencies to keep this thing going and.

B

Back to vision, rothstein's point: we will have created the process with the.

B

Commissioners to say: how are we going to make these choices? Okay, so you might go.

B

To bridges, okay! So now we're gonna talk about our actual first three pieces of.

B

This first up is bridges.

B

Starting good, I'm gonna hang on till monsieur whence comes back. I hope who.

G

Initiated this process, we did it's good, it's running it like a business, no yeah.

B

It's art, remember exactly the origins, but you know over time. Things start to.

B

Creep, in my mind, is worries and start to figure out. Well, how do we, how do we do.

B

Something about this and it's really been an evolving process. We've kind of.

B

Been figuring out as we go okay, we need to figure this out, keep what how we're.

B

Gonna, do that? Oh here's something we never thought about. What are we gonna do.

B

With this, and actually you know, we're gonna show you three videos here, even.

B

This was part of that evolving process. You know we have a lot of stuff, but we.

B

Are talking about how do we make this real for you guys yeah? How do we, how do.

B

We get it to be something, that's not oh yeah. We hear you talking, but you know to.

B

Make you feel like okay yeah, I see what they're talking about these videos are.

B

Gonna play a part there. You were always the most sobering person to come before.

G

Us I was at a community college board trustees meeting once this spent number.

B

Of years, but I think it was doing a particularly bad time and I gave them an.

B

Update on where we were, and a teacher at the college stopped me after he said.

B

I've never so never had my heart so eloquently ripped out before that slide.

F

You showed about the ups and downs of this with. I know you pulled the ups and.

F

Downs out of the air, but was it three million dollars? No, it had absolutely no.

B

Meaning at all, it was nice to give a sense of us, hoping things will be.

D

Straight line a sense of uncertainty I like when we're down bait, go and you.

G

Gave your presentation of a budget- and you talked about bridges- and that was.

G

Scary, what sound it's right so you've you've already seen this video.

G

Hey my mouth shut, I'm just saying, and that was another very sobering thing.

G

Yeah, if I go I forgot about this, is this first bridges thing we're doing actually.

B

Did a presentation down at mako to share what we've been we've been doing with.

B

This and didn't have a big crowd, but I got got some pretty interesting.

B

Reactions from people there's a limited amount herbs that really didn't demand.

G

You do okay, not sure what his colleagues do. Let's go all right.

I

Can you make it.

I

The carroll county department of public works is responsible for 154 bridge.

I

Structures on county roads, including 133 major structures and 21 small structures.

I

A major structure is defined by federal standards as having an opening measure.

I

Along the center of the roadway of more than 20 feet, while minor structures are.

I

Less than 20 feet, the distinction between a major and small structure is.

I

Significant because of federal requirements for major structures and.

I

Financial implications of that classification, while major structures.

I

Are mandated for biennial inspections by the federal government, all structures in.

I

Carroll county, regardless of size, are inspected on at least a two-year cycle.

I

This hands-on inspection process is performed by a private bridge.

I

Engineering and inspection consulting firm under contract with the state.

I

Highway administration.

I

The findings, including condition, inspection and documentation, evaluation.

I

Of the condition, photographs and repair maintenance recommendations are.

I

Summarized in a detailed written report provided to the department of public.

I

Works and the state highway administration, some repairs are able to.

I

Be completed in house by road operations staff while others are contracted out.

I

Through the nature or complexity of the repairs, all cost for minor structures.

I

Are entirely the county's responsibility, carroll, county's, 154, bridge structures,.

I

Include nine types, concrete slab, multiple steel, stringer, multiple.

I

Concrete box through steel, truss, steel, pipe culvert, arch, concrete pipe box.

I

Culvert acro panel trusts concrete beams and timber. The average life expectancy.

I

Of the structure is dependent on the type of bridge, but ranges from 30 to 80.

I

Plus years, multiple steel, stringer bridges and concrete pipe box culverts.

I

For the most predominant, comprising 70% of all structures in carroll, county.

I

Maryland delay in the replacement of the structure can lead to a number of issues.

I

Including increased costs, bridge closings and posted weight limits.

I

Increased costs needs additional funding for a project using citizen tax dollars.

I

And taking away from other county initiatives and projects, another.

B

Constraint on getting through all this, I should mention that was chris wham's.

B

Voice there, if you didn't recognize it and he's also the one who put together.

B

The video and greg and that contributed some of the video there chris only has.

B

So much time to devote to this this project yeah, so we have to kind of work.

B

Through that as well, so we wanted, we wanted you to see that too I mean it's a.

B

Really see bridges and think about I mean if so much and we're just out there.

B

Driving you go across the bridge, you might not give it any thought at all. We.

B

Have some some bridges where you literally would not give it any thought?

B

Because unless you know you're on a bridge, you wouldn't notice it. You have.

B

To get out look from the stream side to see oh there's a bridge there, so a.

B

Hundred and fifty four bridges in in carroll county, if you start to think.

B

About each one of those having a limited life and you think about 154, there's.

B

There's a lot that needs to be considered to keep renewing your bridges.

B

Oh good, let's go up to the third side now you know chris mentioned the federal.

B

Funding, so we have basically these little bridges that are totally our.

B

Responsibility, although they do get inspected by the state and then our.

B

Bigger bridges, which are 80% funded with federal funding.

B

Now that that's all the costs of the bridge, it also includes work. We do for.

B

Cleaning and painting that help prolong the lives of the bridge. It's important.

B

To understand, though, that federal funding is not driven by our need, it's.

B

Driven by how much they've determined they're gonna give us, this is kind of.

B

Like state funding for school construction, where we can say, okay, we.

B

Have projects that are eligible for state funding, totaling a hundred million.

B

Dollars that doesn't mean we're gonna get a hundred million dollars. We're gonna get what the state thinks they have. This is even more that way and that.

B

They're not considering individual projects for how much you can fund at all. We know unless they change how much funding is coming from the state and our.

B

Bridge program is programmed to work with the amount of money that's going to.

B

Be coming in and what we get done can depend a lot on the size of the projects.

B

We're talking about now, we have a bridge like shepherds mill on the way to union.

B

Bridge, which was a three million plus project, we have other smaller bridges.

B

Which might be a five hundred thousand dollar project? But you know each year.

F

Having twenty you're getting from the state? Yes, unless something changes, it's.

B

Been that way for fifteen 1.11 /, I think after after the inspection money.

H

That comes out.

F

Doesn't seem like too much the bridge on the left. There is hollingsworth that is.

B

A county only bridge then mama ford crossing over into frederick county.

B

Would be eligible for federal funding? This is white rock road bridge, which was.

B

Just recently placed we're going to show you before and after and as you might.

B

Have caught already with just a few bridges you've seen every bridge is a.

B

Unique project: it's not like you can say: okay, here's a plan for bridge go use. It.

B

On this one, you have to react to what the bridge is. You have what the stream.

B

Crossing is like what your road road is like every time we identify a bridge.

B

It's coming up for replacement, then the work starts to say what kind of.

B

Structure are we gonna use to replace this bridge? How do we make it work for.

B

The spot that we have to build it in- and chris mentioned just in the in the video.

B

But it important to remember when we delay the need to replace a bridge we've.

B

Already said it needs to be replaced, you know the costs are climbing the.

B

Longer it takes us to get to us. Sometimes we get to the point where we.

B

Have to put up weight limits and say if vehicles over a certain weight are no.

B

Longer allowed to go across this bridge, which inconvenience is somebody and.

B

Sometimes this doesn't happen too often, but sometimes we even get to the point.

B

Where we have to close the bridge, which is, of course, an inconvenience to.

B

Everybody who uses it so bridges that are a good repair to have weight limits.

F

On them well, there could be weight limits for different different bridges.

B

And I'm not prepared to really talk about how that works in carroll county.

B

But what we're saying is you would be putting a limit on it. It's less than.

E

What intended to across yeah okay now took a little bit.

B

More about these fun methodologies and talk about average annual funding and.

B

Our project timeline, the average annual funding is built upon.

B

A lot of assumptions we think we're making reasonable assumptions but again.

B

We can't tell you this is exactly how it's gonna work out, but we're looking at.

B

Square foot size of the bridge now, of course, the kind of bridge you're.

B

Building, even if the same square feet could could lead to different costs,.

B

We're looking at the type of replacement, we're gonna, make the useful life of the.

B

Bridge and then the cost per square foot after that, it's just math and we're.

B

Getting to a number that says of all the bridge types we have over all the years.

B

We're going to place it, we think we need x number of dollars a year to be able to.

B

Keep renewing this. The project timeline is much more specific to the bridge.

B

We're talking about not just two bridges in general, but we're making the same.

B

Sorts of assumptions but we're making it for that bridge and then that would lead.

B

To a schedule, that's based on an assumed great replacement year and again that.

B

Goes back to when do we think we'll actually have federal funding available.

B

To do this bridge now, a lack of funding hasn't been a big problem for us. We've.

B

Mostly been able to keep up with the bridges, and, in fact, arguably until I.

B

Show you something a little bit later. If you had asked us or you had to ask.

B

Public works, we all would have said. Yeah bridges is a place where we're doing a.

B

Good job we're keeping up the money that's available was enough to do what.

B

We need to do hold on to that thought, though. Okay, so average annual funding.

B

The column that says, unlimited federal funding is not real. There is not.

B

Unlimited federal funding, but this just to show you if it worked that way, we're.

B

Saying in in fiscal year twenty dollars and for all these things we're talking.

B

About we're talking about today's dollars, no matter how many years out.

B

We've talked about today's dollars. We know, though, that we're in when we build a real timeline, you'll have to be building in.

B

Inflation and costs, but we would need about three million dollars a year about.

B

2.4 that would come from the federal government that point six would come.

B

From the county, that's for the federally funded bridges, they would need another.

B

100,000 a year for the bridges that the federal government doesn't fund at all.

B

So total county funding in that scenario would be about 700 thousand a year.

B

That's not real. The next column says we still need about.

B

Three million dollars a year, we're gonna get about 1.2 from the state and from.

B

The federal government, meaning the county, would need to come up.

B

With about 1.8 million dollars a year to keep up with that annual average need.

B

The hundred thousand for small bridges remains the same so but the county's.

B

Made on an average annual basis would be about 1.9 million dollars. Is there form.

A

That is there a federal formula for this for this ted that we go by or or not. I.

A

Don't know how they determine it. Okay, the only reason I'm asking is because, as.

A

Several of us in the room know we were contacted by van hollen's office to come.

A

Up with challenges that we feel need to be changed or added or whatever up.

A

Perhaps this may be an area that we could, I don't know it doesn't hurt to.

B

Ask but I think the problem we face in getting action on that the unless.

B

They're gonna increase the size of the total pot. You know it's one of these.

B

Things where giving us more means they're, taking it away from from.

B

Somebody right now, if they'd be willing to increase the size of the pot yeah.

D

That would be great okay, okay, food for thought. Add that to.

A

The list what yeah word that accordingly, thank you very much. We've got to a point.

B

Where we said with the bridges, the bridges we have and the expected time to.

B

The expected costs, if we just laid out when do we, think those bridges are gonna.

B

Hit what does that picture look like, and this was stunning to me when we first.

B

First saw it and there, if you look to the left towards those early years, yeah.

B

I'm saying everybody would have said we're doing good with bridges. There's.

B

Not a problem because we were taken into this, we got to a point where we saying.

B

The average annual amount is a lot more than what we're really putting in, but we.

B

Feel like we're doing, okay, something doesn't feel right here, and this is what.

B

Answered it, you see, you go out far enough, there's gonna be a lot of bridges.

B

Coming too and the costs are gonna go way up and what we're putting in now.

B

Won't be anywhere near enough when we get to that point.

B

Now we're talking about 2050 or something else like that, it's not going.

B

To be my problem to deal with, but there's gonna be somebody's problem, we'll have tougher fight yeah, but for now we're working with the assumption.

B

That we will continue to need these bridges. No george jetson yeah. Now you.

B

Might might ask you, why is that? Why is it this huge pile and we can't answer.

B

That with certainty, but there's two things we, but we believe believe that we.

B

Believe explain this one is tropical storm agnes in 1972 carroll, county.

B

Replaced a bunch of bridges in a relatively short period of time, a lot of.

B

Those bridges are gonna, be coming due and the other is talked about. Those.

B

Decades of building infrastructure, we were building it and now there's they're.

B

Starting to age- and some of that is coming together there and you don't even.

B

Need to think about the details to look at this picture and say if we've been.

B

Doing a good job and that at that first 10 years, that might not be enough when.

B

We get to the rest of this, you know, I've said this and we're gonna say this.

B

Multiple times before we what we're never gonna get through this I mean, as.

B

We go through this. This is scary and I don't know what the answer to this is.

B

But I feel a lot better, knowing that this is in front of us, we've seen it.

B

We've looked at it, we've thought about it: we've made decisions knowing that.

B

This is here that simply allowing things to continue on without us having.

B

Realized what is hanging out there for us okay now this is that same time,.

B

Except we're looking at federal funding and county funding, you say we have an.

B

Assumption that federal funding remains the same, that I could change over time.

B

They could put more in, but we can't ignore the possibility that at some.

B

Point the federal government might say you know what we can't afford this.

B

Anymore or it's not our job, to maintain these and federal funding could decrease.

B

Or go away so but right now it's what we know whatever risk we're facing is.

B

Entirely a county risk we would have to figure out. Where is the funding gonna.

B

Come from now some challenges and concerns.

B

You know we're heavily reliant on federal funding, although over time it's.

B

Gonna become a smaller and smaller piece of that entire picture, but right now a.

B

Federal funding went away. We would be scrambling to figure out okay, where do.

B

We go from here and it's not clear that we could maintain the current path were.

B

On there are staffing limitations, engineering can only handle so many.

B

Projects with the people that they have available to them on the federally.

B

Funded bridges, they require one of our construction inspector inspectors to be.

B

On site, all the time constructions going on that, that means we've got somebody.

B

Who could be checking multiple things totally devoted to one project and it's.

B

Dependent depending on factors that are outside of our control, sometimes we have.

B

Land acquisition needs or easement needs, and the owner is not interested in at.

B

Least one case I know of we've shut down a bridge because we we couldn't make it.

B

Work without some land acquisition or easement and the.

B

Wasn't willing to do it, stream restrictions and environmental.

B

Limitations, you know kind of by definition, there are streams underneath.

B

These bridges and there's a lot we have to do to not adversely impact the.

B

Streams and sometimes when we're taking paint off of a bridge in order to.

B

Repaint it we actually more or less have to put a big baggy everything over the.

B

Bridge you know it's a it's a pretty impressive things to see, but you can't.

B

Simply scrape the the paint and like let go in there string and we're also.

E

Heavily dependent on state highway administration: this is federal money, but.

B

It flows through the state. We have to put it in our proposals to the state.

B

Then they work through the money they are sometimes slower than we would like.

B

It's quite possible that if we had somebody who had the time to really sit.

B

On the state people, you know we might be able to do some things along, but you.

B

Know again, we with you have the staff you have. You have to make choices on.

B

What you're gonna do with the time as well, I mean I'm talking about the money.

F

Because if you, if you're are great, money, has to go up so much at 2050. And if it's.

F

Because it's a magnet, you know they're 13,.

F

Everywhere I'm saying you probably have a very similar scenario, so the state's.

F

Not looking at this, I mean it's fact everywhere I mean, do you know.

F

They're they're attending to this I don't know I I would suspect, not and.

B

Even even if they're aware would they be willing to add state funding to the pot.

B

You know you know right now, they're wrestling with kerwin you with this.

B

Right bump that out of the way you know, I don't think so. Yeah just pointed out.

B

The state has bridges on state roads that are their direct responsibility. Ok,.

B

Parking lots in some ways, maybe not as interesting as as bridges and another.

B

One, we really don't think much about parking lots until you pull into one and.

B

Say boys things really in bad shape? Oh.

B

Oh okay, I'm sure the carroll county department of public works is.

I

Responsible for the maintenance care of all county facilities with more than 1.5.

I

Million square feet of building, including 45 locations with multiple.

I

Buildings at some sites and over 6,500 acres of land, major county facility.

I

Infrastructure components into the roofing elevators parking lots and.

I

Heating ventilation and air conditioning systems, a variety of treatment methods.

I

Are used to maintain parking, lots and overlay paves over existing asphalt with.

I

A new cross section and the thickness of an overlay depends on the lot and the.

I

Existing level of distress, full depth, reclamation rebuilds, the existing.

I

Parking lot by milling the asphalt to produce a new base. Determination of the.

I

Treatment method depends on the level of distress in the most cost effective.

I

Treatment measure, but the intention is to address them before reconstruction is.

I

B

Good bridges were more exciting yeah. I can't.

B

I can't promise we're all gonna be exciting. You can kayak under a bridge not over organize no a little bit more work in.

B

The parking lot it just gives you some sense of parking lots with different.

B

Connections in carroll county library's, a couple hundred thousand square feet.

B

Senior centers 150,000 square feet: the community college, almost a half million.

B

Square feet parks getting close to a million square.

B

Feet and I need to point out- this does not include the revenue-producing parks.

B

If I run air branch, ha schewe sports complex are not in that number and.

B

They're, not in that number because of how we've been funding these it's this.

B

Is another thing that has gotten us to think a little bit about how to do it so.

F

You're gonna hear about those parking lots, just not not in that number. North.

F

Carroll high school, I broke this out because it's so big and because it has.

B

Been the topic of so much discussion about what are we gonna do at that.

B

School but almost three hundred thousand square feet of parking lot and then all.

B

Of our other facilities, more than a million square feet of parking lot.

B

And we're adding we've got a lot and we're adding more some new new additions.

B

Things that are in our plans, nice to park and crimp gold. These are both.

B

Adding to existing parks when we only started these parks, there wasn't enough.

B

Money to complete the entire plan- this is additional phases, but we'd be adding.

B

125,000 or so square feet of parking lot recently acquired. I mentioned north.

B

Carroll, high school's 300,000 square feet, charles carroll, elementary school.

B

About 50,000 square feet and projects in progress, these are these are soft.

B

Numbers at this point, but should be in the ballpark of what we get westminster.

B

Veterans park, another 30,000 deer park, an extension to that park 45 another.

B

Krim gold extension 25 and then the new state's attorney's office, 20,000 square.

B

Feet all of this adds up to almost 600,000 square feet of additional.

B

Parking beyond what we have today.

B

Okay, the the funding methodologies same approach. We talked about with with.

B

Bridges some of the details differ, but you were looking at how much do we have.

B

How long won't last, how are we gonna fix? It.

B

What kind of useful life do we have now? As chris pointed out in the video there.

B

Are different ways we can go about renewing a parking lot in practice. What.

B

We are doing now is almost completely reclamation. The reason we're doing that.

B

Is because we are not funding at a level that allows us to stay far enough ahead.

B

To just go back, and do it do it over lay by the time we get to them, we're at the.

B

Point of doing reclamation now, if the funding picture changes in overtime.

B

We're able to get to a place where we are doing overlays as the norm, rather.

B

Than a reclamation that will change these numbers, the average annual amount.

B

Would would go down because the cost of doing the renewal will go down and then.

C

You know the timeline assumption is the same as with the bridges we're laying.

B

Out the parking lots when we expect them to need to be done and how much it will.

B

B

Average annual funding we're assuming 20 years sum will last that long. Some will.

B

Not piny run we redid a few years ago. I.

B

Think we actually have. We were over 30 years, maybe 35 numbers since we had done.

B

That, like I said, we're doing we're making an.

B

Assumption here that all these projects are reclamation projects, we have an.

B

Assumption per square foot cost: this is one that is very subject to change and.

B

Asphalt prices- it's not it's not hard to imagine then, over a two-year period, you.

B

Know this could change by 25%. We don't know how many square feet we have. We get.

B

To average annual funding needed at five hundred and forty thousand dollars, what.

B

We have planned in current cip is 158 thousand dollars a year, so you can see.

B

Where we're noticeably short of hitting that average annual amount and you bring.

B

Up the next piece now that was without north carroll, high school in it. If you.

B

Add north carroll high school that ups, those numbers some I get it we presented.

B

It this way, because the remaining uncertainty of are, we gonna, be keeping.

B

That facility project timeline one hundred fifty eight thousand dollars a.

B

Year, you know this. That number actually is growing with you know, assumed cost.

B

Increases because we're talking about everything else in terms of constant dollars, we we've showed that that way. Then project timeline. You see the.

B

Projects that we think should be happening in that time period and how.

B

Much short, we would be in each of those years to match that timeline. Okay and.

D

This is like the the bridge graph, not nearly as dramatic but but big enough.

B

You know if you consider we're putting in one hundred fifty eight thousand.

B

Dollars a year, it's not hard to see that we're gonna run up against the time when.

B

There won't be anywhere near enough money to keep up with this.

B

That was a without north carroll and then this is with north carroll. Hey our.

B

Parks capital program is largely funded with progra up in space shared revenue.

B

From from the state, the amount l fund dollars we put in has grown in recent.

B

Years but we're still highly dependent on program open space.

B

You know bring up an idea here. This is far from a recommendation for saying we.

B

Ought to do this if jeff daggett's is watching a tone, you know just just relax.

B

And sit back, this is not. This is just so. You have the background. You need to be.

B

Able to think about these things in the future, we could be using program open.

B

Space funding to do more of the paving in the parks and what this gets down to.

B

You see the second row from the bottom $147,000 by using program open space. We.

B

Could free up 147 thousand dollars a year of general fund dollars, which you.

B

Could choose to use in some other way. Of course, the trade-off there is whatever.

B

That program open space would have done. Is it going to happen near the park.

B

Expansion or the tot lot or whatever else we might be looking at and.

B

Okay, this just built in what I said about that using freeing up 147,000 yeah.

B

If you, if you look back to when we first had this, where it says our average.

B

Annual annual funding, 393 and 449 that previously said, 540 and 596, that's the.

B

Freeing up 147 thousand a year challenges and concerns over project.

B

Management you've heard this come up with with other things we have. Projects have been budgeted that aren't moving, because we.

B

Don't have a project manager available to get on that project? Doing more would.

B

Exacerbate that problem, unless we had project managers or if we crunch.

B

Contract out project management adds to the cost of the project's contractor.

B

Availability, I mentioned with bridges, it could come up here. Is there some a new.

B

Job market volatility with steel prices asphalt prices. You know, we never know.

B

For sure weather dependent yeah, it's still steel.

B

Doesn't come into place with parking lots, weather dependent does come into.

B

Play with parking lots, though yeah, sometimes you have bad bad weather at.

B

The wrong time you have the money, but you can't move ahead on the project.

B

There can be an impact on operations. Ideally, if we were going to pay the.

B

Community college, we would do the whole thing at one time. Practically. We can't.

B

Get it done, you can't shut down the college long enough to.

B

To do that, and even other smaller projects, you know to redo the painting.

B

For a library we actually do shut down a library for a little while.

B

To be able to to get that done, and then this this idea of we're doing all full.

B

Builds up throughout reclamation's, you know ideally you're doing relays, but we.

B

Would have a long ways to get in ourselves into that position.

B

Any questions on parking lots and third piece we have today is works.

I

Carroll county's department of recreation and parks, oversees parks.

I

Facilities, recreation, council activities and community recreation programs, the.

I

Parks and recreation infrastructure throughout the county includes 29.

I

Inventory, county parts, 76 athletic fields, 2 nature, center's, bear branch and.

I

Piney run 18 playgrounds and 8 play areas 11 miles of paved walking trails.

I

38 miles of natural surface trails, 13 fishing locations, 31 large pavilions, 21.

I

Small pavilions 6 tennis court locations, 5 outdoor basketball, court locations, 300.

I

Acre lake with kayak canoe, rowboat or paddle boat, rentals, residential camping.

I

Facility sports complex with five baseball fields and two multi-purpose.

I

Fields, general maintenance of the park facilities such as minor repairs, lawn.

I

Mowing and restroom upkeep is expensed through the recreation and parks.

I

Operating budget and the facilities operating budget, the replacements of.

I

Short-Lived assets such as kayaks canoes, cabin mattresses, small appliances.

I

Kitchen equipment, small tools and maintenance equipment are also expensed.

I

Through the operating budget, larger repairs, rehabilitations and replacements.

I

Of assets are expensed in the capital budget and include items such as.

I

Building structures, roofs, piers bridges, paving overlays, pavilions playgrounds.

I

Basketball and tennis courts, backstops and field lighting.

G

Well, that was more excited yeah and like with parking lots, we're adding to our.

B

Infrastructure inventory in parks- something I meant to say a little bit.

B

Earlier, I think it's gonna be important for us as we consider capital projects.

B

In the future, to more consciously think about these costs in the future, every.

B

Time we build something every time we have one more model of something or one.

B

More, whatever we've now committed to renewing that someday or getting rid of.

B

It even though you had it at one time, you're already familiar with us coming.

B

To you, with capital projects, talk about the operating impact yeah, we will need.

B

More people where utility costs will go up or down. That's that's been a part of.

B

Our thinking for a long time, what we're thinking about now is how do we bring.

B

These numbers to you, when you're thinking about building a new school or.

B

Adding a road or a new tod lot to say: okay! Well, that's! What's gonna cost us.

B

Today, but we need to be thinking about what does this mean for the future, so.

E

What are we adding in parks, wednesday, what's winfield.

E

E

Okay, do you remember that one but uh westminster veterans memorial park, we.

B

Talked about the expansion to deer park, a trail down in gillis falls boat, ramp.

B

In the monocacy out, double double pipe creek, well, yeah, we'll be in the moxie.

B

But I don't buy creek park, the extensions to krim gould lyster and the.

B

Possibility of the this northwest trail? If you know the real line is ever.

B

Available to us every every one of these things will change the numbers that.

B

We're gonna talk about upward, heavily dependent on program open space and we.

B

Have program open space, there is a a local match required to public open.

B

Space never covers the whole thing. It creates an interesting opportunity.

B

Problem in the state has diverted a lot of program open space in the last decade.

B

They've pushed a little bit back to us in theory if they gave us back all the.

B

Program expenses was once coming to us. That would be a really good thing for.

B

The park program, but it would mean we need to find general fund money that we.

B

Don't have available right now. Impact fees is a relatively small part of the.

B

Picture these days and then general fund, the general funds are mostly aimed at.

B

Places where program open space won't work, that's not to say exclusively true.

B

But we have a project, we call park restoration, which is more about general.

B

Maintaining to keep it in good shape than it is in renewing infrastructure.

B

There's some money set aside for trail development and the community self-help.

B

Projects, those are the projects where rec and parks or communities will put.

B

Some money in or put their time in and we provide some some matching.

B

For those projects, the funding methodology again same big ideas, the.

B

Details for these differ, rec and parks is particularly challenging because you.

B

Have so many different things you can't just lump together a pavilion with a tot.

B

Lot with lading yeah, you know each has its own characteristics, so we have to do.

B

With these is kind of think about methodology, abcde and in the end blend.

B

Them all together to say what do we need every time to renew all of this stuff.

B

And here you can kind of see what I'm talking about. We have different numbers.

B

For a bunch of different pieces of this, you know down even to your benches and.

B

Signs saying ten thousand dollars a year is what you need to to renew this over.

B

Time miscellaneous includes a bunch of different stuff, including basketball,.

B

Tennis, courts, pedestrian bridges, piers and docks gazebos kiosk, fencing bike.

B

Racks and hacha was swimming through. We see that all that adds up to seven.

B

Hundred thousand dollars a year in today's dollars. And when you look at.

B

That relative to what we have in the cip again, this is a pretty good news story.

B

You know we don't feel like we're comfortable, that we're covering it all.

B

But we're in the ballpark. This is better than what some of the pictures look like.

B

Or will look like.

B

And we look at our struck timeline, got one big jump. That's lighting at freedom.

B

And and masky again good bit in the future, that's 2035.

B

So again, probably not my problem to worry about today. I hate to leave a.

B

Problem behind for somebody else that hasn't hasn't been considered. Some.

B

Challenges and concerns here heavily reliant on program open space. The state.

B

Makes changes that impact directly impacts? What we're able to do, and in.

B

Recent years program, open space funding has been so uncertain almost every year.

B

What we end up doing is building a plan with what we feel confident will be.

B

Available and building alternate plans either for the extra money that might be.

B

Coming in or the money that we might be losing so almost every project it it.

B

Becomes a do this once in either way this one's in? If there's enough money.

B

This one goes out: if there's not enough money or and go out might be, it gets.

B

Pushed back a year or two years or something program, open space, land.

B

Acquisition requirement, 25% of the money that's made available to us- is.

B

Restricted being used for buying land now, ideally for us, we would like to be.

B

Able to use it to you know, keep going what we already have.

B

And we're talking about adding to our infrastructure again by definition, we.

B

Acquire land we've added to our infrastructure, even if we don't do anything with it, there's still something we're gonna need to do with that land, but presumably, if we buy the land, it's with an idea that we're going to create.

B

A park of some sort, so more infrastructure to add to this inventory.

B

Well, like we've been talking about every new addition, you know adds to the.

B

Infrastructure replacement costs, and I mentioned you- know- we've already been.

B

Considering operating impacts in the past and what we'll have to continue doing that all right? Any questions about parks or about any of this effort in.

B

General is going pretty well, where do we get all the money? I have no answer to.

B

That question the thing I can feel good about, though, is that we will have that.

B

Discussion and decisions will be made, and inevitably it's it's gonna mean I.

B

Believe they're gonna be things we're gonna say we believe we should be acting.

B

On this now and we're gonna choose not to act because we're saying something.

B

Else is is a higher priority for the funding we have available, but this is.

B

Gonna, be there's gonna be difficult, it's gonna, be, I think, we're gonna find it's.

B

Gonna get uncomfortable at times. You know acknowledging that there's a need.

B

Out there that we don't really feel like we're a position to me now, where all.

B

This is gonna, go I don't know. Oh yeah. One thing I want to say yeah these first.

B

These first three pieces are the first three, because those are the ones that we.

B

Feel most comfortable with we're, where we are one thing I need, we think we need.

B

To be careful of is there could be a temptation during this budget process to.

B

Say: okay: well, we know about these, let's do something about them, but there are.

B

Things in the other pieces that might be higher priorities for you, so just.

B

Because these happen to be first, I don't think can mean we just try and figure.

B

Out what to do it with these, I would like to be able to present the whole.

B

Thing to you at once that wasn't a problem, but we're just not.

B

Gonna be able to do that there we said money sighs starting last year with her.

F

I guess, with yeah last year for maintenance for infrastructure.

F

Maintenance, we started a line item for that yeah, you put two two million.

B

Dollars aside, what do we have is a tone going? Is that at one time it was one.

F

Time, yeah, not some. You know a good point yeah as we look at this. There are.

B

Different ways we can go about it, one is to identify greater ongoing funding to.

B

Go to some piece of infrastructure, there will be some years. I hope we're at the.

B

End of the year we have money left over that's available to make choices in the future. Choices can be made to plug one-time money into meeting some of.

B

These these needs, or just set aside money for an eventual decision. You know.

B

To use it in some way to meet an infrastructure need, ideally, we would.

B

Have ongoing money at the level we need for all of these pieces, but that doesn't.

B

Mean that putting in one-time money where we can isn't still a good thing.

B

You put you, it doesn't fix your problem, but at least put you in a better position than you would. If you hadn't done it yeah. I'm a real strong advocate.

G

Of putting together contingency funds for the long-term projects, but there.

G

Seems to be so much pressure upon us to spend money now you know, there's a.

G

Political element to this that's hard to get the discipline together to do it and.

G

When we do save that contingency fund people yell that, why aren't you spending.

G

That money now, so it's a tough decision to me it is, I don't know how we're all.

G

Pull it off and the reality is anytime that you have money sitting on the.

B

Sidelines that could be used today there there will be perfectly legitimate.

B

Arguments that people will be making to use it today there will always be.

B

Tension between those two things.

A

Okay, the rest of the timeline on this and the other parts of this certainly.

A

After the budget right, we we will continue bringing them as we're as we're.

B

Able to I really, I don't have a level of confidence to tell you. We expect to be.

B

Done by the end of this year, or even by the end of three years, yeah well, we.

A

Certainly appreciate the effort in helps us look out and beyond, which is you know,.

A

Very important eyes so appreciate, inventory and all of our assets is.

G

Important thank you for taking the initiative to do that, to mean dogs to.

F

Put aside last year, did we use that whole two million hours its toll? It's.

B

Still they're still sitting there and we put that in aside for infrastructure.

F

Maintenance- I guess so you call it so why didn't we use any of it? Well, when.

B

When you put it aside, it was I mean this idea. We were starting to share this idea.

B

With you- and it was right beside with an idea of okay at some point, we need some.

B

Money, let's put two million aside and the conversation never really advanced.

B

Beyond that, during this budget process, you could look to to make use of it.

B

There's not no reason why, again all right.

A

Yeah we just sort of place that, in the anticipation of this you.

E

Know yeah, alright, it anything else all right. Thank you guys very much. I think.

A

That's it for the day have anything, no there's a letter and a press release for.

H

You guys to letter to sign to delegate rose and press release so look at from.

H

This morning session, okay, when you get back to the office very good.

G

All those in favor aye thank you, he's safe out there three to five tonight.