Carroll County, MD FY 24 Budget Process, 18 Apr 2023

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From YouTube: FY24 Proposed Budget Work Session Afternoon April 18, 2023 Afternoon

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https://www.carrollcountymd.gov
Agenda: https://www.carrollcountymd.gov/government/commissioners/board-of-carroll-county-commissioners-weekly-agenda/

A

It is 103 and.

A

What's the date it is april 18th my mother's 94th birthday, happy birthday to her birthday.

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To roberta smith, what's her name, francis whitney happy birthday, francis whitney, if.

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We get this right, maybe we'll have enough to buy a bouquet of flowers, but if not demand.

A

Of being plastic flowers, we'll see where we can go so again, this is work session number.

A

I forgot to be honest, uh we have done a lot of due diligence and I really appreciate my colleagues.

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You know, and also the community reaching out and those uh interest in where we're going with this.

A

Budget which uh we still have ways to go, which is still difficult, appreciate.

A

um Or office management budget and all they are doing and navigating us to where we are today.

A

Just a reminder to the community that this is not the end of the road.

A

This is the intent of having a approved from the board of county commissioners. A final draft.

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Budget to then be presented to the community, it will be presented by mr zaleski in different.

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Parts of the county, along with having the opportunity for the community itself.

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To attend um is a an event in may may 9th. I believe it is may 9th over at the community.

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College, where they can voice their opinions and thoughts and ideas to allow us to make final if.

A

Necessary adjustments to our budget to then submit it by law by the end of may. So I think I captured.

A

Pretty much everything we need is that right, mr zaleski, uh yeah a few things I'll say, but please.

B

um First, you have a new package in front of you. Most of it is continue to recap of your.

B

Previous sessions, it's really only the bottom of the last page that I'm going to take any time on.

B

You'll see the current up plan bottom line, as, as things stand with the various changes that.

B

You you've made fiscal year. 24 is balanced at this point. You don't have to do anything further. There.

B

The plan is not balanced, but we're not going to be fixing that problem today or this year.

B

Commissioner rossi mentioned the release of the proposed budget that will be on april, the 25th.

B

Those community meetings will, between april 26th and may 3rd public hearing on the 9th.

B

Then there are sessions for you to talk about any other changes you make before you adopt.

B

The budget, if any, that they're scheduled for the 16th and 18th, we almost never use.

B

Both of those it's just an in case and then budget adoption is scheduled for may the 23rd.

B

um A suggestion, as you attack our work here today time is limited. I mean this is this. Is.

B

Our last session and in a practical way, it pretty much has to be when you finish today,.

B

They all will be going back to start building this into the budget capturing the changes is.

B

More difficult than you might expect and you've actually made a lot of changes and um the time we.

B

Have left is the time that will be necessary to get the proposed budget pulled together.

B

And then there was some talk. This was not actually a budget request to you, but there's been talk.

B

About uh improving the law and the public safety, pension and disability, you know we got we're.

B

Having a actuarial study done, we weren't sure when we'd get it. We actually received it this morning.

B

Now, in saying that, I will share a few thoughts on it, but this is very complicated. There are a lot of.

B

Possible combinations here I don't believe it's possible today to have a useful discussion of.

B

What you might want to do- and I would suggest to you that, with the work we have to do, including.

B

Meeting with bolton to make sure we understand their thinking and where you are in this process,.

B

That this is not the time to be trying to decide if you want to make these changes or not.

B

But just to give you a very basic idea and one of the difficulties of actuarial.

B

Studies is, there are a lot of variables and they have to make some assumptions. We know.

B

None of those assumptions are right. We just hope that they are are reasonable.

B

You know some of the things that we don't know how many people retire, how many terminations.

B

Will it be, how many deaths will there be, how many disability claims will we have and how big.

B

Are they- and this is a really big variable for us here, because in in the bolton narrative you.

B

Know one thing they say is they make an assumption that, with these approved benefits that disability.

B

Claims will go up twice or will double now. Of course they don't know that, but they're going.

B

Off of you know, other information that they have, but what's that number going to be, we can't say.

B

They make some assumptions about future pay changes, but they don't know what decisions.

B

Will be made and, for example, because of the time this was done, the 1.2 or 1.3 that you.

B

Have programmed right now to add to the sheriff's budget beyond what was already in the recommended.

B

Budget, that's not captured in these numbers so once that gets captured, these numbers get higher.

B

And then, of course, we invest money and how the fund does is somewhat dependent on how.

B

Investments go in any particular time now this um this does build in an assumption of the positions.

B

We're adding with fire ems, of course, we have very few of those positions and uh we will have.

B

Experience over the next handful of years that will impact this, that we just don't have today.

B

So all that said, if you look at funding what has been asked of you.

B

This would look like it would probably about double the amount that we have to put into the.

B

Public safety pension on an annual basis, don't fall in love with the these numbers.

B

But if we talk, if you think in terms of 3 million going to 6 million a year, that's kind of what.

B

We're talking about now, there will be choices to make it's not nothing or everything. There's.

B

A series of choices that you can make and that's why I say it gets pretty complicated. The number.

B

Of different combinations, I don't know what it would add up to, but it's probably a couple dozen.

B

Different ways you could go about doing this, so there'll be a lot of discussion to be had.

B

So, like I said, I don't think this is the time to act on this, but I wanted you to at least be.

B

Aware that you know we do have it and it is possible to start talking about it.

B

And the last last thought I had. I don't think I said this already.

B

Not much time if there are things that.

B

Are going to take significant discussion or you say we really need to dig into this more.

B

I would suggest for today for this year going to what you can agree on identifying something.

B

As we need to do more work on this and then we'll tackle this next time around.

A

A

It's not all doom and gloom, it's get to work.

A

So with that said, and as we've been doing it, the uh we're now open for board discussion.

A

Because anyone want to throw out a first thought or an idea to present.

C

um As as you all are aware, I wasn't pleased with deleting the non-profits it's less than.

C

A hundred thousand dollars we've gotten some feedback from some, but I think it proves.

C

That I'm not sure collectively we know enough to delete them. I would very much like to put them.

C

Back into the budget, with a caveat, none of the money that we agreed to take out can be spent.

C

Until we get more information from each individual group- and I think hopefully that doesn't take.

C

A lot of conversation time today, but I think that's that's saying you know it's it's. I look at.

C

And- and I've talked to some people individually there's a couple of these- I have some heartache.

C

With but I think I use the uh the expression silent martyrs are just that I'd much rather.

C

Have the conversation with them with the money available that that we can say you know yeah, we.

C

Did put ten thousand dollars in the budget, but we're not ready to disperse it to you until we.

C

Get some you know: what are you giving us uh what about this? What about that? So that's! That's that.

C

Might even be my only issue, you know on that idea of you can have an appropriation but not give it.

B

It is an important idea. uh You can't do this with the schools, if you, if you appropriate it.

B

You're done that's law, but in many cases uh your appropriation does not force you into an action.

B

Of course it's the everybody would think it's the intent, but you could still change your mind.

C

But but I and I understand that but and some of these are small enough- they could.

C

Just slip under the radar, but that's why I think we should add to add the caveat that we all agree.

C

um None of these will be released until we have the information that the five of.

C

Us agree warrants releasing it, you know, and after we have a budget, we send a letter to.

B

Each of these agencies that says: here's what's in the budget for you and whenever there's a.

B

But you need to understand this. You know we add that language there and this would be a.

B

Place where we would say the commissioners are still given consideration to this. The.

B

Appropriation is in place, but they may decide not to actually give it to you.

A

I mean I like that I like having that type of caveat.

A

um There are a lot of non-profits that serve our community. We've identified these 10 that.

A

Participate in um certain areas within our community together.

A

In partnership that uh I would not want to lose them.

A

um It's a lot of money to them, not as much money to the entire budget, but um every dollar is.

A

Counting right now so uh I mean that that's that's a big challenge, so so I I agree with the intent.

A

Any other thoughts on that.

D

I mean, to be honest, the only one that gave me some pause was eliminating union mills.

D

Completely, I almost feel like we should have left them at 10 000, rather than taking all 20 000 out.

D

But even that aside, even if union mills was the only one back on the table, I guess my question.

D

Is- and we come back around to what you said, commissioner rossing is the funding for it, where.

D

Do we get, I mean all these combined adds up to what 10 26 21 91 91 91 all together. Thank you. So.

D

Word is ninety one thousand dollars come from. I guess is the the concern that I would have.

D

Even ten thousand dollars for union mills, where I mean out of all of them, that is the one that.

D

I would like to see have some restoration to it. Ten thousand so the twenty thousand being taken.

D

Out but but again I I honestly I admit I would be hard-pressed to figure out where ten thousand.

D

Dollars, let alone 91 would would come from. Like I said last time, you know if we're down under.

B

A hundred thousand dollars that we're talking about, I wouldn't let that get in the way, with the.

B

Size of the budget- the variables in here uh I'm okay, with the idea that we will just figure out.

B

How to make that bounce yeah yeah, I I assume you guys- will take care of that in rounding yeah and.

C

That's why I felt like let's not sit here and go back and forth over five grand ten grand 20 grand.

D

Right if it's in, but with the caveat that they don't get a penny and and that's an example of.

C

A group that we know we're going to be talking to and we can make this part of the negotiations and.

C

They may get all of it or nothing or for that matter we can find funds and do more if we decide.

C

Later in the year, but I'd rather have it in there and us not be going outside to budget quickly. So.

E

Let me just to echo your point on commissioner kyler's point on the roughly ninety one thousand.

E

um Ted correct me: if I'm wrong, you said sir, roughly a hundred thousand give or take, we can.

E

Maneuver that one way or another yeah if it was a million dollar gap, we need to do something. 100.

B

000, I'm okay. Okay, I'm gonna! I'm gonna throw out an idea just to kind of tag team with.

E

Commissioner kyler for a second reinstate the 91 000., with the caveats that we put in place.

E

And they either they either have to meet those or they don't. The other thing I would say.

E

Regarding those caveats, those caveats carry forward well past this year. Moving forward.

E

I could support that if we're willing to do that and stick to it as long as we you know, determine.

E

What those specifics are one I would personally like to say and you you and I have spoken.

E

About this, and I'm just going to be completely transparent here today, one idea was we'd like to.

E

See from the nonprofits uh financial statements as to where they are, because you know we're obviously.

E

A funding agent to them in some capacity, so it'd be nice to kind of know versus it. Just walk in the.

E

Door and say you know we'd, like funding for x each year. I think there needs to be more of a working.

E

Partnership and relationship so, and a couple of them have already sent us their semi-annual.

C

Report or whatever I don't think and if they are opposed to it, then they don't get the money. But I.

C

Don't think we're going to get a lot of pushback right. I think if, if we ask they're, do it and.

C

And yeah, I agree and I agree with you, it should carry forward and you know no. I can support that.

E

If we, if we can agree to working through those caveats which we don't need to spend the time on.

E

Today, I don't think in this budget yeah yeah yeah. I can agree to that, but I get I just my.

D

Question is I mean on thursday, and you know please either debbie or ted correct me if I'm wrong here.

D

I thought on thursday we were approximately 28 or 29 000 in the negative. So if we put 91 000 back.

D

In that would take us over a hundred thousand. Is that not problematic yeah? I don't want 100.

B

000 feel like it's a a hard, a hard line. I was just saying: 100 versus a million okay, okay,.

F

Well, so, to add to commissioner kyler and commissioners gordon's comments, I would I.

F

Would have to insist on more information from the non-profits than just that. I would like.

F

To see their yearly plan, I would like to see their goals and objectives. I would like to see.

F

Their measures of effectiveness, I would like to see all of those things and not just a document.

F

That where the date has changed every you know every april of each year, so I I've always I'm a.

F

Strong advocate of that, especially if and I don't care, if someone's getting forty thousand dollars.

F

Or they're getting a dollar, they should have to tell us how they're spending people's money, but.

F

But what I have learned during this budget process and I think what a lot of us have learned.

F

Is that we do spend a lot of money on non-profits, we spend a lot of money on various other things.

F

You know whether it's memberships of various organizations and things like that and the money.

F

Adds up significantly over hundreds of thousands of dollars, and my concern sitting here today is.

F

That we didn't cut enough because I do think every budget cycle we have an opportunity to try to.

F

Lower that bottom line outlook out to fy 29. So I would like us to be looking at ways to cut things.

F

um I do appreciate your comments, though, about reinstating it and what would.

F

And I think it's a caveats such a good precedence. It does it does. You know in the.

C

Benefit of the taxpayers. We need to know how the money's being spent and just.

A

Add one more word onto what commissioner, karen you shared was how they're spending it and the.

A

Impact to the community impact to the county yeah because they could be spending money really well.

A

But if it doesn't impact the taxpayers dollars, then why are we funding x? So that's why many of.

A

These have a direct impact to the county for effects and efficiencies. So that's you know.

A

I think key looking down down the road, and maybe this will make more sense, but I brought this up.

B

Earlier in the process, but now that you've been through it, you know, might feel a little different.

B

If there are things that the board is interested in going deeper on or having more conversation,.

B

On or you need more information, if early in the process, you tell us those things we can make sure.

B

That that happens in many cases, the information you might want is fully available. It's just. We.

B

There's not enough time to talk about everything, so we need to know. You know where, where you want.

B

To go and I'm not suggesting this, but if you said our intent is to cut funding to non-profit service.

B

Providers in half, then we would try to do the work to set up that conversation to say. Here's.

B

Where you have choices, here's what these changes might might mean, and that's not just about this.

B

But any part of the organization you know if you're saying we would like to see this happen.

B

Or we want to know if we can do this, then if we know we can we can do the work to try and put.

B

You in position to do that, and I think you also said early on, which shows I listen a little bit.

C

um We want the budget to be as best it can be, but that doesn't mean two months from now. We.

C

Can't say: hey: do we really want to pay dues to the dead retirement fund? Of course, absolutely.

F

Not do we want to talk about that and we can just because it's in the budget does it make it gospel.

C

And over with correct, with with many things I mean, there are some things, there's little choice.

B

On right, there are, there are other choice, other things that are totally your choice, even if you.

B

Have taken the step of appropriation and, like you said, schools would be one if we agree on whatever.

C

um They get the money and then we don't get to pick and choose how they spend it. They've.

C

Got it so there are some where we can, but most of these discretionary kind of things we can.

B

And I also want you to be comfortable, maybe you'll say no, I'm not going to be comfortable.

B

But I'd like you to feel comfortable that there's a lot of work that happens behind the scenes that.

B

Doesn't enter these conversations because there's just not enough time to for for everything, but.

B

um Every year, some level everything gets questioned and a lot of things change before that.

B

Recommendation comes to you. There are all kind of things happening. I don't want anybody to feel like.

B

Well, we had a budget, they added x percent and and and we're done.

B

Because that has no connection to how it actually happens, the.

A

So so I think we're in agreeance with what you do. We're asking um the historical society currently.

A

We provide sixty thousand now, that's you know, I don't want to say it's a lot or a little. I know.

A

You all had meeting with them. Are we sticking to that or is there a recommendation from that.

A

To either adjust- or that was something they asked for outside of the book. No, there was an addition.

E

There was an additional 60 they had asked for the over the next three. It was 20 a year for the.

C

Three and we haven't, we haven't discussed that. I think I think the comfort level I got in a couple.

E

Conversations both that afternoon, and even after that from several parties is they'd, be much more.

E

Comfortable with to their liking, let's put it that way if we were to hold them at at the 60.

E

Even if we were to forego the additional 60 over the next three years, so you know to your point.

E

Commissioner kyler, if we want to uh reinstate the 91, I would say maybe allow that or consider.

E

Allowing that for this year for go the additional 60 to them and then put the other pieces in effect.

E

Starting for next year, if, if that's where we want to go yeah, I'm good with that. Okay, okay, comments.

F

I'd prefer to leave it like it is, and it's in still institute your your thoughts.

C

Just leave leave the food leave the figures that are there now as well, though I I mean I.

F

I'm coming the figures, as is don't add anything yes, but yeah. I know we're. I know we're gonna. I.

F

Know, we've discussed it and we're going to take a vote, so it sounds like the growing consensus.

F

Is to restore everybody's original funding and then still institute this this plan to try to get.

F

Some more accountability- I I would I would rather leave it, as is with the notion that never came up.

F

You know you participate in this process where you know this board is trying to validate every.

F

Dollar spent and then we can always try to restore things later on, but that's a motion I second, it.

C

Are you, okay, with that, I apologize roberta what what I think, I think, commissioner garen.

D

Was talking about not restoring the 91 000 yeah right? Well, not not yeah, no! Okay! He wants to leave.

F

The note I want to leave it, as is with the the plan that we have in place to you, know.

F

Figure out some of the things we've discussed, these measures of effectiveness and all those.

F

Things and then we could always make adjustments next year. That's what I would like to do, because.

F

We're in because we are in a situation now, where we're looking for every every dollar. We can well.

C

And we'll vote on contrary to that, I'd like to I'd like to make a motion that we put the 91.

C

Back in with the caveats that we're not going to spend any of it until we're satisfied with.

C

The input we get, which I think a couple we may already be satisfied with what they've said, but.

C

That's that can be next week's discussion. That's my motion to add it back in with the caveats.

A

Okay, is there a second.

A

Were you uh second hand there, mr bigliani? I think.

D

We both seconded okay, so I got a motion. I got a couple of seconds.

A

We didn't say the pledge of allegiance today.

D

I just realized yeah, I didn't do the pledge of allegiance make any.

A

Decision, I guess that's uh appropriate [laughter].

C

I think that kills your emotion, though.

F

I pledge allegiance to the flag of the united states of america.

D

From which it stands, one nation, under god, indivisible with liberty and justice for all.

C

And based on the discussion so far, I need the moment of silence. Thank you.

C

A

And that means also not taking ourselves so serious but doing everything we do very seriously.

A

And I do really appreciate that and there's still just some negativity out there I mean.

A

The sweet, 16 four dead and 28 wounded- I mean it's crazy, so yep and we think we have it hard.

A

um Carroll county looks pretty good, we look pretty pretty darn good and we can get through this.

A

But I do, as all said, have the motion and a couple of seconds bless you on the floor.

A

All in favor all right against no, no okay, four one I've got! um God bless you a few thanks, guys.

C

And I appreciate it, I appreciate the comments you know. I got a few things. I want to share that.

A

Again, it's it's. The big rocks um the board of education, the sheriff's department and.

A

Our current county employees, it's the five hundred thousand dollars for the schools.

A

Because right now we're at 6.2 and really we're talking about salaries, it's um getting our staff.

A

um Appropriately compensate and every dollar matters.

A

And we all know that and to the sheriff's department is the same.

A

We have agreed.

A

To a 6.25 recordation tax that we voted for, one on and six.

A

Prior to that it was six and we voted 5-0. So we have an agreeance on moving forward.

A

With taxes that we control property tax went down three cents many years ago,.

A

Each cent is about 2.3 million two point: some odd million give or take yeah.

A

If we were to give one cent back into property tax,.

A

um I don't want to say, it'll solve all our problems.

A

But it'll allow us to spend within our means and we've got to create our means necessary to.

A

Have the appropriate safety securing education in place because right now.

A

We do, but we are at significant risk and I'm very concerned about that. So.

A

um I would like to put a cent back into property tax that was taken out back in 20.

A

13, maybe 2012 so about 10 years ago, and then use those dollars for board of education. The sheriff's.

A

Department and county employees- I know that's a lot but I'd like to open that up for discussion.

D

I guess my first question is: what is the outstanding amount between the sheriff and.

D

The school board and what was there, the? What was the other one county employees, county employees.

D

What's so you're talking about the one percent that was taken off of the five and a half percent.

D

Salary increase we're getting closer to where we are, whether it's we're at four.

A

And a half to get it to five. You know um I mean we're we're taking money off the backs.

A

Of the employees that were at ten percent, you know uh vacancy and we cannot get to where we.

A

Need to be the sheriff's department I mean is always in a struggle to.

A

Retain not necessarily just recruit but really retain the workforce um and they're doing a lot.

A

Of things I know, they've increased their salary over years by 30, some odd percent.

A

I got that, but they did that in order to get them to where they need to be today and.

A

And the board of education, every dollar we take away from them again goes to the workforce and.

A

Next year it's going to be a cliff, we don't even know what that is. So if we put this in place now.

A

It'll be a whole lot less painful next year in the years to come. um If adjustments need to be made.

B

Commissioner, big loti's question: the one percent for county employees was 560, some thousand dollars.

B

The difference in the schools right now is five hundred thousand dollars.

B

And the sheriff was what 400 500 yeah, so here's the total okay increase in cost would be almost.

G

1.5 million dollars, if you reinstate it all all of this and and uh I know- there's been.

C

Some pain and and we've heard some comments about people. I want to make a couple points.

C

um The sheriff got 75 percent of what he requested.

C

State's attorney and judges got 50., the public library got 89 percent.

C

And the school systems getting about 93 might be 92 depending on how you round, um I understand.

C

Their pain and and the employees are getting. uh I didn't, do the math on that, but over 80 percent.

C

um I don't see this group voting four or five positive on increasing taxes beyond what we did.

C

With the recreation tax and I like to bring up, we did three plus million in income in that.

C

I'm not ready to make more cuts, but I'm not ready to make more ads today. I kind of feel like.

C

We've done about all we can do and- and I really I personally- I don't know how I'd vote. I think.

C

I know, but I'm I wish we never had to raise taxes. I don't think we're going to make it.

C

Through four years and see that, but I just feel like this year, I think we've done a good budget.

C

And a few people have felt some pain, some of the ones that yelled at loudest got more than half.

C

And uh I'm not sure it's fair to the taxpayers at carroll county to raise the taxes to change it. Any.

C

So yeah, so so let me answer a couple thoughts on that um and I think you know one cent. It's.

A

Around number, I think we can go less in a cent correct. We can make any adjustment we want, so it.

A

Could be half a cent you know if we choose to you comment about we're going to have to you believe.

A

Adjust taxes over the next four years. My thoughts are, if we don't do it now, in the beginning of our.

A

Tenure as a board, it's going to hit us hard as we move forward um board of education, school systems.

A

I apologize school systems. The sheriffs and county employees is the entire county. It's not one.

A

Organization over another, so you know those that have kids in school see the benefit of those kids.

A

In school, those that don't have kids in school see the benefits of the sheriffs and the uh uh you.

A

Know what they provide and the county employees in order to get again the roads, paves and.

A

The work done that all our county employees and if you look at the list of those that are vacant.

A

Vacancies, it is a whole lot of public works and we were just out there today saying thank you to.

A

A whole lot of folks that also put them themselves in harm's way. You know we never would have thought.

A

Well, we do think it, unfortunately, it happened and it hit us. So um so that's why I'm looking at in.

A

Order for us to do what's right for the services that we deserve in education and safety, security.

A

And quality of life, if you look at ccps ccso and accounting employees, whatever those numbers are.

A

The taxes should be necessary to get us there, I'm not for raising taxes. I didn't do it. The.

A

Last four years, this is the first year that I've even discussed it to this level, but.

A

Maybe decisions should have been made over the last few years or last 10 years.

A

To allow us to do incremental changes, that's where I'm at I I don't like, but I don't like.

A

Not having the services that we deserve so um and again it doesn't. I mean we're using round numbers.

A

It doesn't have to be a penny, it could be half a cent, it could be x. I mean if it's half a cent.

A

It's one million dollars added to the bottom line. You know a cent is 2.3 or something like that. So.

D

Well, commissioner, can I ask why would you I mean again unless the numbers don't add up, why would.

D

You take the path of a property tax increase versus increasing the recreation tax over what.

D

We've already suggested did the numbers, because again I'm I I cannot support at this time. I could.

A

Do that property tax increase? But if, if we're focused on one area- and we want to get to.

A

You know again, that's 6.25 up to 6.5 to do the same.

B

You know so uh one one percent was 3.1 billion right, so um we can figure out. You know if you're.

B

Doing something less you would need to, you would need to go to 6.75 to pay for that.

D

I should have just yeah and I I apologize. I mean that's a good point, joe I'm. So that's.

G

What yeah, I'm not as focused on which revenue I'm focused on getting revenue in place, and I.

D

I understand the arguments that you're making and I understand wanting to provide you know.

D

Adequate pay to our employees and to this for the services that we provide to citizens.

D

um But it just again, it strikes me, as I mentioned a couple times before, if people are using tax.

D

Refunds to pay for food, hitting them with property tax increases or income tax increases is not a.

D

Is not a sustainable thing to do um again? My argument, the other day for the recreation tax.

D

I think still holds that you know it doesn't affect the average person there, because not.

D

Everybody's moving every day, um I agree with you and I I can I mean I. I support that. I was.

A

um I won't say so shallow in thinking. Oh, no, that's one, but.

A

um It's at this point: it's regardless of the text that I'm looking at I'm looking at the revenue.

A

Necessary to do things I believe our community deserves so, um but right and again I just I've.

D

I do not like the idea of raising any taxes at all, but if we have to find you know a third way and.

D

We've all talked about this at different points in the past, about finding a different way of.

D

Trying to approach the the difficulties that we're confronted with if there is a way that we have to.

D

Do it, then, then you know the recreation tax is the least objectionable of objectionable things. Okay,.

D

um Yeah and I again I take the points with the the sheriff with with trying to retain his.

D

You know we're trying to imple uh retain uh deputies and corrections facilities.

D

um Correctional facility officers and I take the point about the 500 000 going into the school. I.

D

Mean but, as we've all said before in his ted so adequately described, I think back on the first day.

D

Of budgeting, you know we're looking at herds of elephants coming at us all right and if we don't.

A

Start knocking down not just you know an elephant but understand it is hurt and it's going to be.

A

Nasty, I mean there's, no, you know um if or when it's just how much and how much is still.

A

Unknown I mean handful of years back when we established in commissioner kyle, and I.

A

Were talking about when we established fire ems to move forward, the kerwin commission was an ongoing.

A

You know work, but the expectations is. It would not cost carroll county with the equations that.

A

Were put in place, it hit us like a brick upside the head and we don't have a choice.

A

Except to do the things necessary, I mean we can, we can stomp our feet and yell at it and we will and.

A

Work with our legislators to allow us to use compensatory education dollars in other ways.

A

But right now we are limited because of the allowances that the legislation gives us in.

A

Using those dollars and that's going to start next year, so I rather put something in place now.

A

Then look at a proverbial cliff. um So yes, if it's recordations recognition, I'm you know.

A

It's not that I'm agnostic to it, but if that's a better path forward to getting agreeance, then.

A

That's what we should do, but the reason I'm looking at this, the big rocks our schools.

A

Our sheriffs safety security and the county services that do so much for quality of life.

A

In the county, so did the school board explain what they would have to cut if.

D

We didn't I mean salaries from the 500. 000 is what they're gonna have to cut salaries.

F

What's that they're not gonna have to cut salaries this year, when you go to sellers.

A

Yeah, iran, it would be a decrease in what they're hoping to increase yeah for salaries. Yes, right.

A

Not a cut, not a cut but not cut okay, but but the 500 000 would not be. It would not allow them to.

A

Make the adjustments to salaries? Is that a better way of saying that I mean, I think so yeah I.

F

Yeah we okay, we, we have already raised fees to pay for more spending. We we're we're at zero right now,.

F

So we've increased fees, whether it's you go to the dump or you're buying a house. So we could.

F

Spend more money and now we're talking about raising taxes, so we can spend even more money.

F

And that won't help us next year for blueprint at all. So I'm not really sure why we're talking about.

F

Raising taxes at all this budget, in my view, does protect your average carroll county citizen, their.

F

Taxes are not going to go up those folks that have been here forever or you're brand new.

F

To the county, that's who our constituents are, it's all of them, so you know so we don't spend.

F

The rest of the day and next week and the week after that talking about tax increases.

F

um I'm not in favor of raising recreation anymore. I think that's already been done.

F

Enough but if there's a motion to raise income tax or property tax, I would encourage you to. I would.

F

Encourage you to make the motion, I'm not let's vote on it, I'm not, but you agreed to raise taxes.

A

By raising recreation taxes, those aren't fees, those are taxes, so we have collectively agreed.

A

To raise taxes and if there's a better way of getting.

A

Forward and not touching property tax or income tax, I'm all for it and I'm not for.

A

Raising property tax or income tax, I threw it out there because I wasn't thinking through recreation.

A

If recreation, you know should be adjusted to from 6.25 to 6.75 and allow us to do these things, we're.

A

Doing then that would be my motion or we could cut spending and not spend as much. Where are we going.

A

To cut spending we're talking about adding another 1.5 million dollars to the budget right now,.

F

So I mean it was just brought up. I mean we just had this discussion. We can't give.

F

Everybody what they want. We should be looking at ways of trying to save money and not spend.

F

Money for the future, and if that includes having more money to deal with blueprint.

F

Next year, then so be it, but where would we cut additional spending? Well, we just added another.

F

40 something thousand and the proposal the discussion has been to add: 1.5 million more.

F

Back in I mean I was just sitting here, that's what we discussed we're talking about 30, plus million.

A

Dollars next year, that yeah maybe but we're talking we're but we're we're in this budget.

F

Cycle now, and we can make decisions to help us later and trying to find ways to raise revenue.

F

So we can spend it, I think, is just absolutely the wrong answer. Not everybody's going to get.

F

What they want, I mean, I think we all need to just okay realize that, and- and hopefully I.

F

Think and I think the overwhelming number of residents in the county completely get that.

A

And I understand and again we all agreed to raise revenue last week and we all agreed to raise taxes.

A

That is a fact getting to six getting to 6.25. It was a 4-1 vote moving forward, but you know.

A

So and then the fees was also agreed upon to raise both the water sewer and the landfill.

A

um So I agree with you um in order for us to continue to do the services not add to the service.

A

But just to continue to do them, it was identified by our sheriff and his department. The schools.

A

Who decreased their workforce by 320 folks over so many years? Who are trying to figure out how.

A

To make the best out of the facilities that they already just that they have.

A

Retaining the workforce adjusting necessary their needs, they came up with the required.

A

Requirement of an additional 6.7 million- I I don't second guess them, so I believe we should get them.

A

To 6.7 million and the county employees, just looking at the stress on the workforce right now.

A

By cutting their their compensation raises, I think you know is a detriment, because we spent.

A

Time and effort to get them to where they are to slow down the reduction and the closer we get to.

A

Given them what I believe they deserve the better off we're going to be for the community for the.

A

County and uh if you look at the wrecks, you know that are out there that are vacant, a lot of them.

A

Are dpw a lot of them are parks and rec? You know. A lot of them are the quality of life that the.

A

County needs so that that's why I brought it up. So no I'm not recommending- and I believe uh and.

A

I appreciate commissioner vigliotti I'm standing corrected, I'm focusing on property and income. I'm.

A

Not recommending that I am looking at the revenue necessary to do the things I believe we should do.

A

And if we don't it's going to hit us harder next year, so if we're prepared next year to look at.

A

This and say: okay, it's gonna hit us hard. If we don't do it, the states can come in and take away.

A

Certain part of our revenue to allow us to to in order to make these adjustments. I don't like that.

A

I rather spend our money the way we want to spend our money so and- and I I understand what you're.

C

Saying so far we have agreed to raise revenue, but primarily only to the people that use the landfill.

C

Right, water and sewer and uh and the recreation is only somebody either buying or selling a.

C

House and typically it gets split in half right. We raised it 25 percent. If we do the next step, we're.

C

Raising at 35 percent, I'm not sure, I'm still comfortable with that now right, we're talking.

C

You know 500 bucks or something on a on a reasonable size house.

C

um I'm not sure, and I think we got to keep fighting a state on this whole kerwin stuff.

C

um And and I don't know what they're going to say, if we say we don't have the money, because.

C

I I don't think anything we're talking about is going to get us 30, 40 million.

C

And uh and I just struggle again, carroll county is being asked to fix all the ills of some of.

C

The larger jurisdictions- and I won't sit here and say baltimore city and pg county and all them, but.

C

But you know they, they throw money at some of those systems and it doesn't work.

C

And now they're trying to make us do the same thing now: they've lost.

C

The test scores and they're trying to manipulate them. It's a I don't know. Somehow we have to wake.

C

Them up to you promised this would cost carroll county zero, because we already have a great county.

C

We already have a great school system. Let us keep having the top math scores in the state. The way we.

C

Want to do it and I don't know if there's any hope in that, it's a shame I mean purchase being in mako.

A

You work, you know our legislators being very active, oh yeah, but our legislators.

A

Are in a very difficult situation, in a veto, proof scenario being on the lower end, we.

A

You know have our opportunities but, as you know, we're number nine in the state, so our voice is.

A

Equal at mako, but those that are one through eight get more out of blueprint than we do so.

D

And you know my suggestion about raising the recreation tax last week was to get us to where.

D

We were we'd started out, I think it was whatever tuesday or thursday. We were almost seven million.

D

Dollars negative and you know we made a lot of hard choices through the course of you know.

D

Last week about getting us to a place where you know we were within thirty thousand dollars and.

D

Then this morning we agreed to add back in the non-profits which took us to about 120. I think.

D

And um I I honestly thought that and again none of us are happy about even having to to.

D

Consider raising the recreation tax and nobody wants to do any of that.

D

um But to get us to where we were, where you know, we were shy. Five hundred thousand dollars from.

D

The the school board, the sheriff, would only get 75 percent rather than 100 versus. Originally we.

D

Wanted just to give him 50 percent, so we we have increased uh in a number of places, funding that we.

D

Did not think that we would be able to previously deliver, and so to echo commissioner garen, you know.

D

I do worry about adding in another 1.5 million dollars and that's not to say that employees do.

D

Not deserve, you know, have not earned a better pay or that that the sheriff's people do not. You know.

D

Have not earned better pay, um we we are confronted with an intractable set of of fiscal realities.

D

And this year we say: okay well, we'll raise the recreation tax. You know from you know.

D

Five dollars, or whatever it is now to 675 and and that gets us through this year, but we're over two.

D

Million dollars negative already next year um and then of course you you bring into accounts.

D

Blueprints and and you know, ongoing work with fire department of fire and ems and, and you know we end.

D

Up in a situation where we're you know we're already going into next year, short of revenue.

D

um I do not like having to to tell somebody that well, we can give you a five percent this year, but.

D

We can give you a four percent, I don't I hate it, makes me sick to have to tell anybody that.

D

To tell the sheriff that, well, we can give you a hundred percent, but we can give you 75 percent.

D

But you know if we do need to raise the recreation tax again next year,.

D

um To meet certain expenditures next year, I feel like, if we continue to raise it this year,.

D

Are we leaving ourselves any room to do that next year, but again, the other thing is that.

D

You know, based on the conversations we had last week, I felt that we were going to be.

D

Approaching this, in a way that we were going to try to constrain certain parts of our spending.

D

While increasing certain aspects of the revenue to try to balance things out and- and you know again,.

D

Commissioner uh rossi and I I totally understand the arguments that you're making about sheriff's.

D

Salaries and and teacher salaries and and uh employee salaries, because again it makes me.

D

Sick even having to to discuss this kind of stuff, but the the burden really doesn't end up with us.

D

It ends up with taxpayers and I guess I'm trying to to look ahead to the coming year when we're.

D

Already two million dollars, you know negative with what we're trying to work out now um and.

D

And I guess I just I I have difficulty. I have difficulty attempting to square that circle as.

D

As the saying goes, trying to to balance different aspects of of a whole in order to to make a whole.

D

A hole I I agree and um everything's I mean I don't disagree with anything that is being said.

A

um As shared, we all agreed to increase the revenue through specific fees and specific taxes already.

A

In order for us to achieve the needs of the county, I believe we are unable to do that.

A

By staying within the current means, therefore, additional revenues need to be found if we cannot.

A

Do it this year and everyone believes that well, it's going to happen next year. Are we prepared to.

A

Seriously look at revenue next year and have those conversations you said you know if we do.

A

It this year it may not leave us the room for next year, but if the predictions for next year are out.

A

There, the way they seem to be are we prepared to have those conversations? This is the first time.

A

That we've gotten as far as we have with revenue, at least in my tenure, um it's short.

A

But it's the first time and even with what we've done, it's still not meeting.

A

The needs of the county in in all aspects that I think, are priorities for us now, if we think we.

A

Can cut somewhere I'd like someone to say this is where we should cut? You know, expenditures.

A

Because I don't know where that is, you know, um and then we should have those conversations.

C

And it's kind of somatics, but I'm sitting here thinking listening to you guys.

C

All the money we're talking about except employee, raises from five and a half to four and a half.

C

Were outside of the proposed budget, they were requests after the proposed budget.

C

And we gave them a large percentage of it. The the cut from five and a half to four and a half.

C

Was from the proposed budget right and- and you said that's worth- maybe five hundred thousand.

C

It was 560, something who does that affect that. That obviously doesn't affect the schools. Doesn't.

C

Affect the sheriff, does it affect judges and state's attorney? Well, not judges, but circuit.

B

Court and state's attorney your employees circuit court and not the judges, but the.

C

Circuit court, employees, yeah and and the state's attorney so, but we don't have the funds to even.

A

Get them exactly! No, because you're making a really good point that some of it's above and.

A

Beyond, what's already in but yeah, if we're to say, where are we right now even to get that 560 back.

A

It's like it's a really good point, but like the state's attorney, we only gave.

C

Them half of what they asked for outside the budget right, but we also cut them a percent.

C

Within the budget, okay and just so, this doesn't get confused. We're talking about circuit court.

B

And states attorney in two different ways now, in one way they were built into the recommendation.

B

With that five and a half and then second way, each of them came to you for more beyond what.

B

Was in that recommendation? Yes, yeah, yes and and uh they're gonna, oh yeah, what I mean, but they also.

C

Came and asked and got a bonus that others did not yeah so yeah. I know I struggled because.

C

I think we've done all we can do so far.

C

uh I'm not sure where we go from here and I do think and again the four of us are new, but.

C

I do think this tells us we need to spend now until next budget looking at. Are there.

C

Things we can cook absolutely you know, because we're going to be in dire straits next year. I.

C

Mean yep that shows it and then any talk about planned increases makes that worse, yeah, okay, so.

A

Again, I I agree, and I really appreciate the insight all of us and all of you are providing.

A

Before I want to say one question: how do we use a revenue? Is that untouchable? What.

B

um Well, it's! It is restricted to certain purposes. What are you thinking about? Well,.

A

Well, we got 3.2 million fy 24. in the budget for how we use revenue.

A

And then it goes down to like 1.6 or something like that um or 1.2 in fy25.

A

I'm looking at it from the operating budget and I'm just curious if that money can be shifted in.

A

One direction or another to move other money. Okay, there are, I want uses in the operating budget for.

B

Highway user revenue and we actually used- we used to use it in the operating budget. We got away from.

B

That, actually, when, when we lost, we had the big cut in highway user funding, we changed at that point.

B

And I would argue against going back to putting the operating budget, because the problem is.

B

It's unreliable, we're totally dependent on what the general assembly decides to do any.

B

Any given year, so maybe you have two and a half million dollars. If you use that in your operating.

B

Budget and then next year they say well you're going to get five hundred thousand dollars. This.

B

Year then, you've created a hole for yourself. Well I mean right now, fy24, like I said it says,.

A

3.2 million in fy25 and forward is 1.2 million, so is there a? I mean that gives me a feel that.

A

You know if there is a cut, it's gonna, it may occur, but it may not be. It won't be down to zero.

B

Well, probably I mean probably not, but so if we took any level of confidence in in.

B

Our expectations for for the future uh highway user revenue for the state is a really easy cut.

B

To make nobody yells at them, except you and some county executives, remember it used to be.

H

12 million dollars 12 12 years ago, as it used to be 12 million dollars and- and I believe and.

H

And I'm just trying to think of a creative way to use money this this, I don't think two questions.

C

The one thing we could do: okay, we cut five and a half to four and a half percent. One percent.

C

We could use one-time money safely to do a bonus, but people keep telling me employees.

C

Don't like bonuses, I I never gave one back in my life. Well, I think what people are saying. It's not.

B

A substitute for a salary- I understand that so if you gave four and a half plus a bonus, I don't.

B

I don't want to speak for the whole world, but I don't think people would be upset.

B

About that I wouldn't think so, and we could do that and that doesn't change this bottom.

C

Line because and and what made me think of it, you're talking about different in in revenues.

C

And then we got some emails or I got a text. Maybe we're not using that leftover money and.

C

They criticize their budget people that, and- and I know this isn't right, but they they said ted.

C

Said that we had 5.3 million in snow removal and we only have two and why did he say then I said.

C

I don't think he ever said that, but we we are. We've made a conscious effort throughout these.

C

Discussions to try to use that one-time money any place we could and it's hard to use it. But.

C

A bonus would be one way to use it that doesn't hurt. The ongoing side doesn't hurt next year.

C

And and like I say it's not it's not as good as, but I think it's a a show that they're appreciated.

C

And on the idea of it hasn't been used, just don't lose sight of that's our flexibility. I understand.

B

And, and not just for you but for the rest of the world, fy 22 money or is that fy because wasn't.

A

There leftover money left over. I do I'm sorry we're down to 500 000 from 22., okay. So so that's.

A

So that wouldn't hurt us as bad using that compared to the money that we have. You know.

A

Fy 23 moving forward, I mean I don't want to say it's free money, but it's more available.

A

I've discouraged you from going into the 23 money, either way right that money is our flexibility.

B

For things we don't know about in in the future, whatever year it came from and if there, if there.

B

Are people out there who are thinking that's a wrong way to look at it? I'd be glad to sit down.

B

And talk with them and explain why I'm telling you what I'm telling you and I agree, I'm just.

C

Saying that's what that's messages I got. I don't agree with it. I I heard the same thing on the.

C

School, the school side of it is: oh, you got all that money and fund balance. Well, then, the roof.

C

Blows off of uh central office and hvac goes up and you maybe can get insurance for some of that.

C

But you don't want to wait for the insurance check to fix the roof. You need that money.

D

Now I mean I'm surprised, I thought we'd allocated everything from last year.

C

Well, that says: 5 30 and we need 560 and our budget people have said they can get creative. If we keep.

C

It small and that would get us at least hitting the one target. That's in the recommended budget.

A

Above here I'm sorry for one year, though correct yes, so it would be a bonus.

A

If you use this to balance 24, it's going to be a balanced budget, but it's false. Balancing, yeah yeah.

I

Well, no, you do it as a bonus.

B

I was talking about generally. If it's a bonus, we don't need to balance anything.

B

Yeah, I feel strongly. We should only use that for a one time right, as we talked about thursday.

I

Morning I'm leaving deb's got you roberta's gonna enjoy joy, not the ted's replaceable.

D

God bless you ted, enjoy.

A

Okay, now, let's get to real work now you get all the right answers.

H

Do you do you like, listen to us or you just cut us off and leave.

C

I don't blame you [laughter].

A

We will not use four-letter words and everything will be enjoy. Okay, thanks dad. Yes, thank you. So.

A

So going back to um does that include a salary increase.

A

Yeah- let's not talk about that so um so so out of the three areas that I threw out there, the schools.

A

The sheriffs and workforce- and I I do appreciate it you're, saying that the workforce adjustment.

A

Came from within the recommended budget, where the other two came.

A

From outside the recommended budget and were requested by those organizations.

C

And maybe rightfully so yeah! No, I I right, but if.

A

We can achieve the results from the recommended budget for the workforce.

A

I mean four and a half percent increase is not bad. No uh I'd like to know.

F

I'd like to know how many county carroll county residents are getting a four and a half percent.

F

Increase this year, I bet you not a lot, I think four and a half is a respectable number. We're.

F

We're trying to find piggy banks to crack open to spend more money. This budget does a lot of.

F

Good things, I think it's turning out better than I even had hoped we're protecting the people who.

F

Are vulnerable in this county, which are a lot of people next time you drive along the road.

F

Look to your right and your left you're going to see a one-story three-bedroom rancher that person.

F

Cannot afford more taxes and they don't have kids in school, but they fund the school system. They.

F

Don't have grandkids in school, but they're fun in the school system. They're funding, everything.

F

And they don't probably even partake in it. So this budget does a lot of good things, but I mean.

F

How long are we going to sit here to try to find more ways to spend money? I don't want to do that.

F

Anymore, we should be focusing on the next four years, five years out at this point, and I I I don't.

F

Want to be a part of a tax and spend budget in this budget, I don't feel as a tax and spend budget.

F

If we stop now, if we want to go back and look at some things to cut in order to restore some of the.

F

Funding that has been mentioned here earlier- okay, fine, let's do that.

F

But you know I'll say it again: you don't always get what you want, but.

F

Sometimes, to get what you need, we've all heard that song before.

F

And if there's motions to raise revenue raise taxes, let's have a motion. Let's vote on it.

F

Let's stop talking about it, let's vote on it. If you want to somebody wants to raise income.

F

Taxes or property taxes or recreation tax make a motion. Please stop talking about it, then nobody.

A

Is talking about income or property tax period? I took it away period. Well if it comes up again.

F

Let's open the period, let's have a vote. I want to hear a motion, it is not no one here is talking.

A

About increasing income tax and property tax, we'll see what comes in wait for emotion on other things,.

A

What I did share was that, to recap all five of us agreed to raising recreation taxes.

A

Four of the five agreed to go from six to six point: two: five in recreation, taxes.

A

We all agreed to fees that were raised for landfill and water and sewer.

A

In those locations that they use water and sewer, like the freedom area.

A

um I would like to see ways to find the funds to ensure our workforce gets what's recommended.

A

Which is at 5.5 percent increase if we can't get there, we cannot get there, but I would like to.

A

See, if possible, if you want to make a motion to cut something and find something then do.

A

That, but I don't know where that is because I'm asking: where can we cut above and beyond.

A

What's out there, we we're almost, we were at zero when we started we're a little over zero again, I'm.

F

Willing I've I've lost some votes here and there's budget process. I'm willing to live with that and.

F

Stop right now, if anybody else wants to go back and try to find things to cut, I'm all for it.

A

Oh, so you don't want to cut things down. Okay and that's fine, I just if, if you want to.

F

Continue to spend money, commissioner rosting, we have to cut some things because we're not.

F

Raising revenue- we already did you've already mentioned that several times this afternoon. How.

F

We've raised taxes, we did okay and um to find ways to provide the services for our county.

A

And that has to do with the schools, the sheriff's department and our employees.

A

And honestly, if I need to start the screen, you know longer that's what I'm going to do.

A

Until someone wants to make a motion second in and adjourn, but I believe that we owe it as much time.

A

To have the conversations to say this is the best we can do, but, but I, with with respect, I do feel.

F

That is a mistake to treat every county taxpayer as this homogeneous group that is sitting at home.

F

Right now going gotta raise those three things got to put that stuff back in, or that is simply.

F

Not true, I agree, I agree with you, so we owe it to those people. Everybody has their own priorities, no.

A

I I apologize, I don't mean to find ways to just to find ways to I mean there's, there's groups.

A

Out there that want more turf fields or more parks or more wrestling mats or more gymnasium space or.

A

More of this- and I I do I- I uh carroll county uh field house- um you know at the community college.

A

You're right, everyone has their own and we're not homogeneous in that sense, but I do believe.

A

That we still do not provide the best that we should be able to provide when we have a.

A

Workforce, that's 10 percent vacant that we're not incentivizing them with a five and a half percent.

A

um Salary increase and if I lose on that that I'm going to lose on.

A

That or a sheriff's department that we're providing the state-of-the-art equipment.

A

And he is still having challenges retaining the workforce, whereas the schools that has nothing to.

A

Do with blueprint but has given us a priority list of the things they need to achieve today.

A

To prepare themselves for blueprint, which is in front of them, so that's the conversation.

A

I'm having to me those are the those big rocks. If the answer is no because I threw out property tax.

A

Because I was wrong and that is not what I was looking at. I was looking at property tax.

A

As where I was looking at revenue, so I was wrong, we'll see who captures that on social media, but.

A

That's all right, I think what you're I think, what your argument is is that we can do better and we.

F

Can always do better? I'm not going to argue with you about that. I'm not going to disagree. We can.

F

Always do better, but sometimes you can't. I need to do as good as you can and I think we are at that.

A

Place it goes back to you know you and I agreeing very much on comfort and acceptance. You know I.

A

Mean I I agree with you: you're not comfortable, but you're going to accept it. I'm not comfortable, but.

A

I'm going to accept it in moving forward and doing everything we can. I we're saying the same thing.

A

Believe it or not to the community, my feeling is we're not going to get four votes here to even.

C

Raise so I'll make a motion and we can discuss it. I move that we take, I think you said 560.

C

000 of of fund balance type money, whatever you call the leftover money.

C

And give all the employees that were in the original budget that we cut five and a half.

C

To four and a half percent to give them a one percent bonus, and I will second that.

C

And that won't change the bottom line this year or next year and there's almost enough there in 22.

C

Money to do it, it just takes away a little bit of flexibility. Well, I I hate the word yeah. It takes.

D

Away flexibility, I hate that verbs and that's yeah and that's that's. My deepest concern is that we're.

D

Now, at zero in terms of our flexibility from that year from from 22., but we have 23. yeah. We have.

C

23, money and- and I understand the arguments made from a point of flexibility, but you know I mean we.

D

You know in trying to balance things out this year and trying to make things work. We went through.

D

That that fund balance that that's you know that non-recurring revenue from last year, pretty.

D

Quickly- and I am you know, genuinely concerned that you know we will end up in the same place.

D

Next year, where we just kind of plow through it um and and you know, to to go back to this.

D

Discussion about where we are, I think that you know we had the proposed budget. We came in here.

D

We went through all these additional requests from you know this. This multitude of from a multitude.

D

Of agencies, partners and departments within our our entity here, and we made a bunch of them work.

D

To the point where we ended up, seven million dollars negative um and by raising agreeing.

D

To raise the recreation tax to 625 and by finding certain things to to cut or to not fund. Oh because.

D

Again, we talk about funding things, everything in the proposed budget, except for the five and.

D

A half percent is is covered and, as commissioner kyler had noted earlier, everything else at this.

D

Point again outside of the the salary increases is additional, the 75 for the sheriff, and um you.

D

Know we we're originally hoping to to be able to give him 50 and we've been able to up that to 75.

D

um You know we were able to to you know, take the library from 50 to 89 of what they had.

D

Requested over the the proposed budget, and- and so I think that we have done a lot and.

D

I think we have made significant progress to get where we are because again we're looking.

D

At ways to to prevent increasing expenditures, while also trying to raise certain revenues.

D

And I think that, as far as this budget goes, I would humbly submit that we are at a point where.

D

We you know, I think, we're at a tipping point here. If we continue to to again it's not that nobody.

D

Has earned the extra you know from the sheriff's department or from our employees? It's not that.

D

They haven't, earned it it's a question about what are we obligating our residents to to account for.

D

Yeah, I look at that. At the end of the day I mean the people who are sitting up in front. These are.

D

Human beings up here right, they're, human beings, who are going to be paying them and that's why.

D

I think this is part of why we're having such a struggle. Nobody here- and this is important.

D

For anybody who's listening as well over the last couple of weeks, nobody here is, has sat and thrown.

D

Around you know political ideological terms about well, we have to cut taxes or do this or whatever.

D

The the the effect here has always been to do the best possible job with what we.

D

Have to provide for our citizens. Nobody here has been ideological. Nobody here has been inflexible.

D

And, and to have gotten to the point where we are now, I think, speaks to to the camaraderie.

D

That we've shared and the intent that we've shared as well, which is to to bring about the.

D

Best possible budget that we can with what we have, and I don't think I I honestly humbly submit that.

D

I don't believe, there's anywhere else, we can go here without having to increase that recreation.

D

Tax but again increasing that recreation tax means that we have to go to a place that I'm.

D

Not comfortable with going at that point um and and again I I certainly understand arguments about.

D

Wanting to to provide you know, pay that has been earned but, as commissioner garand pointed out, I.

D

I you know it's difficult to find people in the private sector who are getting raises right now.

D

The cost of everything is going up and- and again I go back to this point that I I'm probably sending.

D

Like a broken record to everybody now, but this this idea that people are using tax refund money.

D

To pay for food- and you can say well, maybe they should budget better. We don't know what their.

D

Individual stories are, and you can say well maybe you know the year is just tougher than but if the.

D

Year is tougher them already? What are we going to continue to make it worse, um and I understand.

D

That we're looking at the recreation tax and not property taxes and not income taxes, which.

D

Do hit people on in an everyday way, but again, given everything that we have given certain and.

D

I'm not going to sit here and lambast previous boards and in previous decisions, but there's a.

D

Trajectory that we're also attempting to account for certain plans are set in motion and we're.

D

Attempting to account for a number of variables and again I humbly submit that we have arrived.

D

At a at a stasis point where you know we're at a tipping point, you know we we settle with what we.

D

Have here and again, this budget does do a lot. It does more than what was originally proposed. It.

D

Does more than what we originally thought that we were going to be able to do two weeks ago.

D

um And to continue to to push it in various directions, I think will end up problematic.

A

Okay, sorry, no! No! It was all good except for the word stasis which I didn't understand, but you said.

A

Tipping point, so I understood that um and I don't think anybody's going to disagree. um Any changes.

A

To revenue, I think, is now where this budget discussion off the table, and I think we are all.

A

Comfortable, if not accepting of that fact, I think unfortunately well the reality is, none of us are.

A

Comfortable with the situation but we're accepting because of what needs to be done. But the.

A

So, therefore, by doing any of that, unless there's some magic fairy dust somewhere, anything above.

A

And beyond, what's recommended in the budget is now at a point where it's we're done the only.

A

Additional discussion, where there's a motion in a second and any further discussion, is using.

A

Fy 22 one-time funds to use as a bonus for the county workforce to get them to that 5.5 percent.

A

um Before I asked for the vote on that, just for my identification, fy 23 is what do we.

A

Have right now one-time funds we're estimating 24.1 million we're estimating 24.1 million okay.

C

And I'd love to hear from you two yet, but I've got a dumb question but before that I'll make a dumber.

C

Comment, I appreciate you moving up here because I now can hear you from that mic and how many guys.

C

Watch tool time we need to get a different monitor. You look like the neighbor. You look like looking.

I

Over the fence and which, with my hearing, I can't read your lips, but you never watched two times.

D

Yeah yeah yeah yeah, but the show's home improve your neighbor. Thank you. Not mr nelson wilson. He.

C

Was a very good neighbor? My question: is we really do miss ted right about now? You do.

C

You just change around and it it put this year, 90 more grand the whole and made next year. 90 grand.

C

Better was that because of the 22 versus 23, I mean I don't understand that and and I'm not.

C

Questioning you, I just don't understand it well, one of the things that was in there earlier is.

G

In the recreation going from 6.25 to 6.75, you back that up fund yeah, the the three the boe and.

G

Then we back that out, so there was a little more revenue, okay and then now what was remaining in.

G

The surplus was less than what the one percent is. Okay, I didn't realize the recreation to I.

C

Didn't realize that went in so you put that in for us to see it. You could see what it did and.

G

We did yeah gotcha, okay, I didn't know that either. I didn't know that either interesting that wasn't.

F

A dumb question because I didn't realize that either oh okay, okay yeah! Well, since we started.

G

Thirty thousand negative, it was 29, but when I had that other uh piece in there it, but it did help.

C

Next year, that's the magic of deb's fingers without us. Knowing so so you guys are still.

C

Comfortable, if we end a day like this, yes, I would say anything under 200 000. We should be able to.

G

Okay find a way to make it balance. Let me what are you jump in a little on this, so I'm challenged for.

E

A couple reasons with this one percent bonus as much as I'd like to give it to people. I.

E

Do understand from a variety of my colleagues the point of eight thousand dollar global.

E

Jobs being cut by various companies, pay increases for many of bonuses at all. This year are happening.

E

To very little and and that's not taking away from any of the hard-working people, education.

E

Our staff sheriff's department or anyone else, the other challenge, though I have, is, and I've.

E

Had this challenge, since we started this, I think in january we we've started to hand out bonuses.

E

And I think it sets a very dangerous precedent. I said it at the time. I'm gonna say it again and I'm.

E

Not against anyone, but I think it creates some interesting issues. The other thing I'm going to.

E

Point out was when we started this budget process. There was a comment made. All five of us know this.

E

Comment, it was talking about looking at the previous budgets and how they were put together.

E

Constructed and how it masked things to make it look better moving forward. We all thought that.

E

Was not the ideal way to do this ted even said today? If we move that 5 30 over we're masking it.

E

For that reason, easily alone, forgetting the fact that it's a bonus, I can't support that, because.

E

To me, if we're going to have a raw budget and put the ugly numbers up and stare at the ugly numbers.

E

And tell the public what the challenges are and the positives we've got to continue that from.

E

Beginning to end, I can't maneuver money around to make it look better for right now. I agree. I.

A

I don't think this, though, is masking. I do agree using one-time money to put onto the bottom line.

A

Shows that we are within budget over multiple years and this past year we're pretty adamant.

A

Not to do that because that would be masking, but this, I don't think is unless that you correct me.

A

I think if we, if we were to say we're going to reinstitute the five and a half and use one-time.

C

Money and that's next year- that's masking, but I think there are good uses of one-time money.

C

But I I respect what you're saying and and yes we did kind of say that absolutely and I.

A

Really recommend we don't because it turns into a ugly situation that we had for the last parts.

A

Of my tenure and uh it became very difficult, so therefore you know we shouldn't and we should.

A

Do exactly what we're doing here? I always liked everything you said I didn't like what weaver said.

C

I'm going to tell them, you said that, oh I think he knows he would expect it. He can't hear anyways.

C

Okay, mr garen, you, I know I've. I've lost quite a few votes uh the last couple weeks, but I'm.

F

Still smiling because I think we have oh we're trying to do the best we could. We really are and.

A

um Okay, let's get this vote and we'll see where we're at after that I do have a motion. I have a.

A

Second, to use one-time funds from fy 22. to provide a one percent bonus to the carroll.

A

County workforce, I think I was able to say that somewhat correctly, um all in favor aye.

A

Jill what'd, you say no, no, no! No! That's a no okay! So three, two against okay! So please take that away.

C

I'm losing votes too, but I'm happy. Okay, we gotta beat it so we got to.

C

Beat it around all right, it's good to have the discussions. I actually did didn't I so. Okay.

A

Now this ain't about beating a dead horse.

A

And we should never feel like it is because every decision we make at the 11th hour 59th minute.

A

Should be just as important as a decision we make on the first minute, and I think we have been.

A

um So with that said, is there any other decisions that want to be made that we brought to that you.

A

Either have brought to the table or have thought through from the time we started at 1 pm. I have.

E

One minor one I'm going to bring up and I don't mean minor in the sense of importance, I'm going.

E

To say minor in the sense of funding, commissioner bigliotti and I've been kind of talking about this.

E

And I've talked to a few of my other colleagues. Out of the surplus is what 5 30 right now, roughly.

E

Yes, okay, what I'd like to do- and this is call it a gesture- call it whatever you want I'd like to take.

E

Ten thousand out of the surplus, so I would put us at 520. I'd like to set ten thousand dollars aside.

E

Meaning that they meet the criteria which we determine- and I know we all had discussions.

E

If I remember correctly, in february with the uh former students and friends of robert moden,.

E

I'd like to put 10 000 aside for them for future possible discussions now doesn't mean it has to.

E

Go anywhere doesn't mean we even get to that point, but I'd like to least in good faith put that aside.

E

Since we are, if I'm not mistaken, looking at this budget, we're looking at possible changes for board.

E

Of elections, which would then open some of that building up and some other options that doesn't.

E

Mean we're going to fully fund any projects for anybody. It's just a case of I'd like to.

E

At least give them that as a possible starting point, and we would set that aside for them.

E

Is that a motion that was a motion? Second? Okay, I got a sec all right. I apologize a motion. I got a.

A

Second, for providing ten thousand dollars with the same stipulations with the other nonprofits.

A

Open for discussion- and I think it has to be with the same stipulation absolutely I'll- get I'll get.

C

Text emails and maybe maybe more contact than I've had we had a very good meeting with them.

C

Before I left that meeting I said, can I get an email with contact information for everybody, who's.

C

In the room, oh yeah, nothing- and I said I'd like to see what your plan would be too moving forward.

C

Haven't heard a word right, no, I sent a text. Do I have the wrong contact number? What do I need to do.

C

I did get verification that I had the right number. I sent another email. I haven't heard anything.

C

But that group's met with other groups and told them what they think we ought to do um if they.

C

Don't want to communicate with us, I'm fine with that, but if they do they need to no- and I agree.

E

With you and I actually had a conversation with mr hudson, I want to say end of last week very.

E

Briefly, when one of our breaks, he and I are trying to set up a date to have lunch just.

E

For some initial additional conversation, I don't know where that will there won't take us, but I.

E

At least want to give the opportunity, so that's I and I'm fine with it being in the budget, but with.

C

The caveats absolutely with all the rest yeah and I mean I appreciate your comments because.

F

I'm I'm going to take this this process that we don't even have laid out yet of how we're going.

F

To execute these funds for nonprofits, I know we don't have the process laid out, but I'm going to.

F

Take it very seriously, and it doesn't mean that people necessarily get that money. I we, I think.

F

It is very important for us to see exactly what those county dollars are being used for.

F

And you know anecdotally, I'm not going to get into specifics, but you know I I see things.

F

Sometimes that I wonder you have to ask yourself, is that my money being spent on x, y and z, because.

F

If it is, I don't think a lot of people are okay with that. So I I appreciate your comments and I.

F

Think that that I can support it as well, but uh the process will have to work its way. Absolutely.

A

um Over the last few years, I've dealt with mr hassan once I dealt with I've, had opportunities.

A

To be with mr hudson and his team, um most of the time pleasurable great meeting a couple times.

A

Confrontational not with me, that's why I'm invited back to having opportunities to talk with him and.

A

Trying to figure out how to move forward. I've had some similar experience, saying: okay, the.

A

Ball's in your court, you know, send me something: let's move the ball forward. The last meeting we.

A

Had I thought was very positive, especially with a couple of the younger folks that, were there.

A

um Both invested in the efforts because of their relationships with those.

A

More senior more experienced um there's nothing wrong with senior people more experience.

A

um So you know if we can make something happen with this. I would love it because it would.

A

Show a part of carroll county that really, I believe, needs to have a late shown on it. So.

A

um Okay, I have a motion. I have a second appreciate the gesturing bringing this forward all in favor.

A

All right, okay, so that means that's a 101 k from 91 000 to 101 for non-profits right, okay,.

A

um Okay, are there any other that specifically came out of one-time money right.

E

Just for this year, right we're putting on a hold just for this year. Okay, let me see if you.

A

Need to see where we go so so said, any other rocks small rocks, pebbles sand, the jar itself.

A

Okay, any closing comments mike. No, no sir, thank you tom just a couple real briefly. I appreciate.

E

Everybody's involvement out of the five of us as well as all a budget- I know it's, it's not easy to.

E

Sit behind the keyboards and do all the hard work and digging. I do greatly appreciate all.

E

Your your time and commitment, because you're the ones getting us the information, I would also say.

E

To the public, I appreciate, I think we all would agree. We appreciate all the input, whether it be.

E

Positive not so positive at times or you're slightly challenging. We do appreciate that.

E

um And I would like to say that, as soon as I think in I know, many of you have echoed.

E

This as soon as this process is over, I want us to hit the ground running for next year.

E

Because the commissioner rothstein's point, you know we do have some big big challenges and I.

E

Want to see us taking them head on versus waiting until closer to budget. Thank you.

A

Commissioner kyler okay, um thank you guys and it's been good good conversations. I don't. I.

C

Don't think any of us batted a thousand, I'm not sure, but and thank all of you guys.

C

um And your works in a way is just starting, so thank you for that too. I know it's. It's uh we'll.

C

We'll leave the room and go do something else. You guys aren't done and I I really appreciate it and.

C

I was worried about that. She wouldn't like make faces at us while she was hitting. Would she yeah.

C

But but no thank you all and thanks thanks for this and and the answers to some of the questions.

C

And every time I look up there, it changes. It scares me, but thank you and thank you guys, like.

C

I say it's been good discussions and uh we've it's interesting and I don't know how other years were.

C

We've changed the same items multiple times throughout this.

C

Process- and I think we ended up in about as good a place as we could end up, but.

D

So I'll just echo everybody else and say thank you to all of you from the bottom of my heart for.

D

Being a part of this and for helping us through the process, thank you, gentlemen, to all of you, as.

D

Well, I know we had some very heated discussions. I know we had some very serious discussions, but.

D

We never lost our sense of decorum with each other, and I respect that, and I appreciate that you know.

D

We have a friendship that I think is developed between us beyond the professional working.

D

Relationship that we have- and I think that's also essential to carrying on with these very difficult.

D

Conversations that we have had- and I also want to echo the sentiment and I want to begin work.

D

On the following year's budget as soon as humanly possible because, as everybody has pointed out, we.

D

Have a lot to deal with in the coming year plus, and I would rather get some of these conversations.

D

Moving now than wait until april of next year, not just as a matter of making sure we adequately.

D

Address the questions, but out of respect for everybody, that's that's involved in the process, so.

D

And again you know, god bless all of you and and thank you one kind of a question but.

C

um Ted kind of hit on the remaining process, but.

C

um We're done for now making changes, so you guys can get the proposed out and then.

C

Our last chance is, after the public hearing, correct that'll go out and do his road show.

C

And then it'll be the public hearing and then that's right. We've got to say this proposed.

C

Budget is the budget right correct, so yeah just uh exactly so. Thank you so.

A

um We're where we are today, the road show starts um middle of next week for a week.

A

He'll go to the libraries he being mr zaleski. Go to library share the proposed budget public.

A

Hearing will be may 9th over at the carroll county community college. um Then we'll have two work.

A

Sessions with an opportunity to make necessary adjustments with the budget adoption on may 23rd.

A

And then by law has to be done by may 31st, so it gives us that that room, okay.

A

Yeah again, appreciation for the entire team.

A

You know your work just begins as soon as I shut up. I guess and you get to start moving forward.

A

um This is now my fifth budget um process and I will share with you um that.

A

I want to say it's the most enjoyable, but it's the most interactive, most productive, most and.

A

In a way that we got a lot accomplished and especially that um there's the sentiment that.

A

We need to focus on as soon as this budget is through to keep moving for next year. That was.

A

Never discussed that I remember um so, that's a really good, I mean people say, oh, you must.

A

Be happy because the budget's almost over and that's where you get people comments, I'm like.

A

Nah man, this is this- is a ongoing issue. Is it ever over july july, 1st we started executing.

A

The budget that's set, but we should be looking at establishing the fy25 budget right after july.

A

1St, so so that's sentiment. That attitude is really to me very refreshing um and uh yeah. I.

A

I we've done a lot, um you know nobody batted a thousand, uh but uh we're not.

A

Supposed to we're supposed to dig into these discussions- and I think.

A

What happened on the 23rd hour, 59th minute was just as important as the first minute.

A

Which is you know great? What I need now is a motion to accept the um proposed budget.

D

Motion to accept the proposed budget. Second, I have a motion and a second to accept the proposed.

A

Carroll county budget: okay, any discussion all in favor, aye 5-0 again may not be comfortable for all.

A

But we're accepting of it and we're moving forward any other discussion. I need a motion to adjourn.

E

So moved second and discussion seen here, none all in favor, aye.