Carroll County, MD FY 24 Budget Process, 13 Apr 2023

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From YouTube: FY24 Proposed Budget Work Session Afternoon April 13, 2023 Afternoon

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https://www.carrollcountymd.gov
Agenda: https://www.carrollcountymd.gov/government/commissioners/board-of-carroll-county-commissioners-weekly-agenda/

A

Good afternoon it is 1pm.

A

April 13th work session number I forgot, but that's okay, we'll just keep going until we get a solution.

A

um Although that's not what ted wants to hear right now, my kid wants to hear is.

A

Let's get ourselves uh where we need to be this afternoon. We do have another work schedule, work.

A

Sessions scheduled for tuesday as well and then I think a week or two later, maybe a week later,.

A

By design we are to publish the budget correct for the draft budget for public review.

A

It's on the it comes pretty fast, afterwards, yeah and then yeah, okay,.

A

um Okay, without further I do um ted. You want to uh have a few opening comments you want to make.

B

Yeah you have a new little packet in front of you. First couple pages are things you did in.

B

Earlier sessions, just keeping that all in front of you in case, you need to go back to it, then.

B

Third page are all the votes from the last session.

B

Go down the first string of bullets. You'll see it says, changes since 4 11.

B

We've talked about before things continue to move, even as we're trying to work through this. A change we made in the budget not plan.

B

Was to account for minimum wage impacts in your budgets, which is mostly about wrecking parks.

B

We talked last time about the legislation to change.

B

Compensation for the election judges that is now built into this picture.

B

We got noticed that we received a million dollars from the state for the sheriff's headquarters.

B

Building so we reduced one million dollars of planned bonds and replaced it with state funding.

B

We've set up the fund and this this doesn't.

B

Impact this in any way you're going to see, but we've set up the fund for the opioid restitution.

B

This is what's called a special revenue fund. There are certain revenues we have that are legally.

B

Restricted and have to have their own little pot. This that's going to be true for this, and the.

B

Blueprint workforce development question: we have the 1.6 million dollars captured in our grant fund.

B

I think people are still working through exactly how that's all going to be implemented there right.

B

That's correct, so we don't don't have all the answers yet, but the the budgeting part is in place.

B

And we're working on ambulance billing special revenue fund. Again, this is a restricted fund. We.

B

Have to set up a special place for it right now. The focus is on medicare funding. When we get that.

B

Over time it could be that all ambulance billing will end up here, but in the short term, where only.

B

Can put medicare here so we can keep track of the transition of all the funding from what was going.

B

To visa to what's in our budget, then you see your new bottom line. You want to roll that up.

B

Fy24 is not actually zero, it's about twenty thousand dollars or something like that. Right.

C

27825 right it rounds to zero with uh where, where we are now in the end that.

B

Will have to actually be a zero revenues and expenditures have to match for your budget.

B

And you see where we are based on everything we've done so far for the remaining years of the plan.

B

With a butt- and that's going to be in the next session, a few things I want to mention the first.

B

One being this is the butt this picture is built on the recreation change that we talked about.

B

But there's not yet been a vote to change the recreation tax or to propose that we're going.

B

To propose for changing the recreation tax, then nothing new here just want to come back to when.

B

We look at the plan. There's there are things that are not in here that are still going to need to.

B

Be part of our thinking at some point: what is our future with blueprint funding? What are we.

B

Going to take on in connection with developing the new larger landfill space that we have.

B

Commissioner, rothstein last time was talking about slacks road improvements. Right now, that's not.

B

Built in to our capital plan other than the study and then fire again, what we're funding right now.

B

Is intended to fund ambulance services, not fire fighting? I think we all know that we're going.

B

To be going there someday, that someday is not built into this plan, uh so it's not necessarily.

B

A short-term concern, but just needs to be in mind if at some point, things seem to be accelerating.

B

Just want to make sure everybody understands we're, not we're not planning for funding that.

B

Right now and then the last thing I want to mention this morning, you approved a snap grant.

B

There is some speculation that this might continue in the future. We don't.

B

Know it we haven't been told it, but there's been some talk right now. We don't have any plans for budgeting the the match for this.

B

It's not critical that we do, but if, if the board's thinking is that, if this.

B

Money continues to be available that we want to continue making the match. Then we probably.

B

Would build in forty thousand dollars a year or something like that 45 to 50.

B

And with that um yeah we we have a lot of a lot of things that you've said: here's what we'd.

B

Like to see, we know what that's done to the bottom line. We know our plan is not balanced.

B

You could tell me otherwise, but my sense is in the next few hours.

B

We're not going to take off take on enough major decisions to bring this into balance.

B

So it seems to me what we have left is if, between last time and now any of you have been thinking.

B

About something that you're saying, I'm not happy with where that ended, or I wanted this addressed.

B

And we haven't talked about it yet then we need to talk about those things. There might be some.

B

Cleaning up around the edges of things, but um I think I think we're mostly where we're headed.

D

um One thing I think we talked about and and if we did, I apologize, I just don't remember.

D

um Under position requests, I thought we talked most back and forth, but I don't think we've talked.

D

About recreation and parks, the park technician for 71 grand and I think and and uh you guys may.

D

Correct my memory it's by six years ago, I think they lost some positions at hashawa and I think.

D

They went through covid where it wasn't being used and I'm not sure it isn't time to add a.

D

Position back there yeah, I believe, you're, right, that this position did not get any discussion.

B

Because we've had position losses all through county government. Wasn't oh.

B

I know unique to uh wrecking parks, but I'm sure they did lose positions.

B

So having a request in front of you doesn't mean.

B

It has to get any discussion, but if you want it now be a good time.

D

So I don't know if anybody else has thoughts, one way or the other about that.

A

You know I'm sticking.

A

Sticking to the three themes and figuring out how things fit in our safety, security, education.

A

Quality of life, this builds into quality of life for general, um for our community.

A

Oh yeah, but it's it's difficult uh because does this outweigh other requirements, especially with.

A

Safety, security and education, but I'm still uh feel like we're woefully short in supporting.

A

um I think it is a good idea, but I think that we gotta look if, if we prioritize.

A

Safety security, education, quality life or, however, you want to do it, you know: does this outweighs.

A

Some of the others is what I'm thinking through. I don't know what anybody else is.

D

And the only other question I'd have, um we went through covet and things were.

D

Less active at hashua will revenues there increase or not significantly.

B

Well, I'm sure they will increase from when we were going through. The couple years of you know closed.

B

Down, I don't do, are we do we have any expectations of revenues rising beyond what we had previously.

D

Not significant right and um yeah, while reckon parks is revenue generating uh it.

B

Only brings in a fraction of oh, I know of the cost right, it's quality of life, yeah and and.

D

uh Yeah, that's that's I just looking through this. I didn't. I had no's and checks and x's.

D

And stuff- I didn't have anything marked on that, so I wanted to bring it up and.

D

I'd love to mention eldersburg library again, but that doesn't fit the group you just said and.

D

um I just think sooner or later that has to be, and it scares me to death when I look at future years.

D

But but yeah they were the two things I thought one one we hadn't talked about.

D

One we beat to death, but I wanted to bring up the day yeah. There is another position that.

B

Didn't get discussion and deb just told me: we have a little bit more information.

B

Solid waste was looking for another land landfill equipment operator, and they do believe they could.

B

Increase the tipping fee by a dollar that the market would not react negatively to.

B

That which would create enough money to cover this position? What's the tipping fee right now,.

B

65 65 ton right um so in a very narrow way. They can create the revenue to cover this.

B

But in a broader way, there's still a very large general fund subsidy to the right to the fund.

E

A

I mean I appreciate the innovation of them. Thinking about that, but you know you've said.

A

Often it's not their money, you know it's. We gotta look at this holistic, so if they can increase.

A

The tipping fee by a dollar- you know it may be a better use of using that. You know to something.

A

Else, or is that money um put away into enterprise that it can only be used for the tipping fee, would.

B

Have to be used in the enterprise time, but you could reduce your general fund transfer to the.

B

Yeah so there's other ways to use that money. So the setting of the tipping fees is that a.

F

Board decision is it yes, and that is for county residents, that is, for commercial oath. Yes, and.

B

This board has not been yet through any big discussion on landfills and there's lots of things.

B

To think and talk about, but on the idea of tipping fee in a perfect world, we would set the tipping.

B

Fee to cover the cost of the landfill and there would be no need for a subsidy. The problem is we.

B

Do run into market problems where somebody has a choice. If he goes too high, then volume goes away.

B

So there's not a lot of room, so he said a dollar is available. I don't know if he's.

B

Saying that's as far as we could go, but we definitely don't have infinite flexibility.

B

Or even a lot, the last time we made adjustments to tipping fees, I mean because we have um what's the.

A

History over the last few years, I I had not heard that we had any negative impact, but no I apologize.

A

Not a negative impact but just and changes to office. When did we make the last changes yeah.

G

Was two years ago.

B

Okay and 21 went from 64 to 65.. That's what I thought: okay and recycling and.

D

The capacity there's the capacity there another operator doesn't help with less.

D

Transfer or doesn't change the philosophy on how the landfills run right now, because.

D

We can't afford to keep filling it up right.

B

um If I'm understanding right, you know, sometimes the question will come up. Well, wouldn't it be a.

B

Good thing: if solid waste went somewhere else uh problem- and this is much like utilities- there are.

B

A lot of fixed costs, so you reduce, you, can reduce some variable costs and lose revenue.

B

But end up in a more difficult situation and I think, with solid waste, that's a big consideration.

A

Okay, well I mean we can.

H

For the sake of discussion, I know we're looking at a recreation change from five.

H

Or I'm sorry from five to six dollars! What if we made that six dollars and 25 cents.

D

It's another million right, because I'm again, I the way we're talking about this we're trying.

H

To avoid having to hit people with property, tax rates and and uh income, and so if we're able to.

H

Accumulate the revenue in a different way.

A

That's still taxable right right now, yeah right because still, but if that would be the question.

D

um As ted brought up at the beginning, we haven't voted to do this. Are we comfortable that we're.

D

Going to and is there a tipping point of well like you know, 05 05 say: yes, I'm a dollar and only two.

D

Say yes on a dollar and a quarter, all right come comfort and acceptance or two separate things and.

A

um I'm and I'm just curious to see what happens on it, but I'm not saying no. I just.

B

I think it would be good to settle this matter because, if we're not going to move ahead with.

B

This this change. We need to change the bottom line, so you know where you are.

I

Now, ted, just out of curiosity to the the point of recognition. Where does that put us with the rest.

I

Of the state I know we had talked about that the other day, but where does that put us say at the.

I

Six versus the six and a quarter was it you that was looking. Somebody told me: they were looking.

B

Taylor did she found a really good chart of all the counties, keep in mind. Oh sorry, most counties.

G

um Have recreation as well as a transfer tax, so um we're if you count just recreation carol's near.

G

The highest, but um if you count, recreation and transfer at work were way below and we don't have.

A

Transfers because we don't have a transfer gotcha, okay. So that's. Why sometimes to me it's hard to.

A

Apples to apples right, um no, it's apples to other fruit because of other taxes and.

A

Other ways of income that they bring in revenue that they're bringing.

G

Can print out the chart if you'd like or we can possibly have deb? If you want to.

G

Pull it up and look at it on the screen, if you're interested sure, just out of curiosity,.

I

So, what's the website I'll drop it in the presentation file just give me one. Second,.

A

So from the mako serving it isn't it, he says it's not from mako. That's what she said. She has.

B

Her own special source- I know what's up with that title company, but we've served the entire state.

J

I was gonna say they they care yeah. I fact checked it, and most of them are right. So pretty clever.

A

Don't go past mako, but that's.

A

A

Okay, so I guess let's look at this question. Yeah, there's counties that have so much other.

A

Ways of bringing revenue no we're low here, but yes, that's, nice, gouging people and other.

A

Taxes in other ways, maybe thousand, is the wrong word respect everybody hilarious.

K

K

And technology cool.

E

H

Don't worry, even I can't see this one. Thank you. Maybe we could just read them the ones that are.

B

Above carroll, county be careful, some of them say per 500 and some of them say per thousand. So.

J

There's one that says: seven dollars per thousand, but that's still 350 per in comparison to ours.

H

Right, oh he's not on a field. Frederick is higher with seven dollars per 500. and they.

G

Don't have a transfer tax, frederick is higher at seven dollars per 500 and no transfer tax.

A

G

There are only five jurisdictions that don't have a transfer tax.

G

And, of course, there's a second page too yeah.

A

That's a pretty cool! That's on you! You all are very fortunate in this kind of stuff.

B

How quickly we can provide this. There was a time when this would have been literally true.

B

Somebody would have had to go back to the office get on the computer, find.

B

Some stuff print out something and then bring it down to you.

L

I was, I assumed, all six are on the internet, ignoring us, but evidently not.

B

They have potentially a lot of work to do. They want to make sure they understand what's happening.

A

No, that's really helpful. I could chip in for one of them to get on and facebook and bash you.

D

Who did we assign facebook so.

A

If you go back to where we were and like commissioner grigliati said, the five and a quarter.

A

I apologize what does that do right now, because it's still yeah expenses.

C

It would give you in an ongoing way about seven hundred and thirty thousand dollars.

C

Additional revenue: okay, that's right! Okay, one percent is roughly three million right.

A

Okay and what does that do to the bottom one, unless I just missed that, I can put it in if.

C

You'd like so, you can see what it does to the bottom line. Sure if that's no trouble. Thank you.

A

A

So similar to what um commissioner kyler.

A

A

As far as adjusting or putting recreation tax in place.

A

I would want to look at.

A

The schools and other things as well.

A

I don't like that when you're still not funding they're requesting we're, just not the experts.

A

Right now I mean they are and it doesn't even touch blueprint which is going to.

A

Kick us in the chandelier, that's the problem so.

A

Along with other things, but I think ted would you recommended if we look at recordation right now,.

A

Is there I'm comfortable with the six? I just don't know if we want to get ahead.

F

Of ourselves too much of the recognition, because it's it's not realized money. It's.

F

It's all dependent upon the housing market and what happens in the future.

F

So I know I think six is is still a respectable number. When you look at that chart.

L

Yeah and two last question yeah, I agree just before you go just a question for you.

A

Because. Because I don't disagree with that is transfer tax.

A

The same I mean as far as the the you know, when I saw one percent or 1.5 percent.

A

um We don't have it and it's hard to compare us to others.

A

I'm just curious how transfer tax is calculated, so so one percent transfer tax would be the same as.

D

The five per five hundred thousand that we had in the past as recreation correct, pretty much.

B

There might be some nuances in how it's applied, but yeah yeah years ago we actually went to.

B

The general assembly to try to get authority for transfer tax and at the time we were building our.

B

Our projected numbers off of recreation and uh to consider garen's point about.

B

We don't know what these numbers going to be from from revenue.

B

That's always there, but it's a good reminder that we don't know any of these numbers uh from you.

B

Know what is property tax going to bring in what's income tax going to bring in what's recreation.

B

So this we can never look ahead and say this is where it's going.

B

To be this, just what we think with what we know today, so so, why don't we start with.

A

uh An acceptance level that it looks like we're getting towards an agreeance and then from there.

A

If we need to work, we can but right now, um because I'm in kind of the same boat, because mr karen.

A

If we start with six percent and then put that in place work through this, and if we.

A

Need to go further and have that conversation when necessary, I'm okay with that! So is there a motion.

H

Over the six six dollars motion uh motion to make it six dollars: recreation, six dollars.

H

Second, I got a most second to.

A

Concealers 500 to 6 500. Is there any further discussion on that seen here, not all in favor aye.

A

I apologize did you yes, mike yeah. I said all right, I'm sorry, no! That's! Okay, which is.

E

Pretty quickly like an owl okay, so you did what ted told us to do? Our bottom line is zero. Well,.

A

But I still want education and I know they're being funded.

A

As opposed to the 13.4, my concern again is that they're not being funded to the needs that they.

A

Have today not even dealing with blueprint you're talking about that one million dollars.

A

A

No and I went back to them last night and I said: listen, could you share with us what would not be.

A

Done out and they're like this is the priority list, and it's not like could just pull something.

A

Out so and its positions and negotiations, so us doing one-time money is no help to them. Right now,.

D

And and again um they said the impact will be on salaries, that's right, yes, and and which is.

D

Ongoing and then and and then commissioner garen and I know, um you've been big on this.

D

And I've lost the argument every time. I still wonder why ems needs a data analysis and a.

D

Building technician, I don't see particular the data guy as a as a full-time, one-year job.

D

um I don't know why um why we need both positions but, like I say, I've said that before well.

F

I mean we've created a lot of positions here during this budget process, and we've talked.

F

About how fire ems police state's attorney's office we've classified them in their own.

F

Category sometimes so I consider those two positions important, but I mean we do have.

F

A lot of positions that don't go filled and if that's the case, we can always reprogram dollars.

F

Or not, spend that money or decide. We don't need to fill that position. I just there's so much.

F

Happening between now, I know july, though that's my big concern- and you know I I haven't- had that.

F

Conversation with the chief, like I said I would, I just haven't, had it yet. I know for sure I'll.

F

Be having it by the next wednesday, so I I can. We can have a further discussion on that, but.

F

There's so much going on, I just don't want us to be held caught flat-footed.

F

I'm sure we can take money out of reserve contingency and fun things, but those aren't.

F

Ongoing you know that we're dealing with. Can we ask him yeah how soon they need it.

D

And do they need both because, again, like you say, if they don't need it till january,.

D

Then it's half, I think that's the million dollar question is the timing of everything. Yes, so yes,.

F

I, as promised I I will have that conversation I just haven't, had a chance to have it. Is he around.

A

Are you looking if, if chief is around well, I think he's already been very.

F

Clear about the fact that he wants these two positions- oh I know I I don't I I think he's.

F

I think he's doing incredible work for us trying to time things out, so I don't want to put him on.

F

The spot in terms of timing and I understand and uh which is, is the job, but right now the library's.

D

Upset the sheriff's upset, the schools are upset and uh I think these positions are critical.

A

Just I think these positions are great no, and if they are, they are I'm willing to concede that.

F

Timing, you're you're that concerns timing, and I completely understand that so I will. I will.

F

uh I'll certainly honor my my promise and have that conversation with them. You know I'd, say the.

B

Timing of when we do this in 24 is really not the big question for us, because if we, if we're.

B

Going to do it sometime in 24, then it's in 25, 26, 20 or 27. we're back to the same place anyway. True.

L

Yeah, all we have is you know, two months savings or six months savings or or something like that.

G

I just knew ted was going to say that, and you know if boards have said before you know. Oh, we.

G

You know we'll we'll fund it for half of the year which you could do, but again it's just yeah. I see.

F

It I see ted's point you know, and this is when I talk about making bad budget decisions. This is.

B

Actually, a fairly common one, you know you have a county council going over county executive's.

B

Budget and they're just trying to get to a a number in the same right. Let's budget 7 12 of.

B

A position oh yeah, and it's going to make it work that year, but it leaves them with.

B

The same problem I was talking about, I agree. I just look at um some got half some got nothing.

D

And uh you're talking about the funding itself, just funding you're talking about.

A

Just fun yeah, yeah yeah, so yeah like like, for instance, in safety state's attorney. I know.

D

um The sheriff we cut all of them. What would be interesting.

A

Now I don't disagree and I 100 agree with you: is we have determined through the county what.

A

Positions are best to be outsourced and then best to be. You know, part of our county.

A

And there's a cost and a risk associated with that um a data analyst um may be outsourced. I.

A

Don't know, and instead of 80 000, it could be twenty thousand if they're outsourced, because.

F

We we do have people working within the department of public works and other places that are kind of that are outsourced. Okay, billing.

A

Say again sourced the position we have and the position we're asking for.

B

Is a spot between the billing company and and us.

B

So the well you mean you're right, even though we're talking about this, I want to go back to.

B

Something you said about, you know some got half something. I think you should be careful about.

B

Thinking about it that way, because when we say got half you're responding to what somebody who.

B

Asked for and how much they asked not everybody asked and people asked for different things.

B

And I also need to be careful: we don't set up.

B

An incentive for some people who would think this way to say okay well, if I'm going to get.

B

Half of what I asked for I'm going to ask for twice as much and then I'll get what I want. Yep.

D

Yep, yeah and- and I think we've talked of.

D

Trying not to tie it to any kind of a formula because we're creating a precedence that we.

D

And and next year is more scary, and I just.

D

I don't think the state is going to come to their senses on blueprint. I.

D

Really don't and- and that means next year we're we physically cannot possibly fund it.

D

We can't we could double taxes. That's why going back to education if we don't provide.

A

That additional million dollars it's dealing with salaries- and you know um we have enough challenges.

A

With retention now some people say: oh teachers aren't leaving, and so that's regardless we have.

A

Enough challenges because we recruit well, we train and we work to retain an end million dollars, is.

A

Associated with salaries across the board, and um I would like to see that put back in.

A

The yeah, the the two things I mean, the library it stinks. I would love to see the library moving.

A

But as shared, if we're going to do study, we better be prepared to allocate money.

A

To build and we're not prepared now next year throughout, we could have those conversations.

A

um I think we made the appropriate adjustments uh for the library, um as they've asked and.

A

They've had those crosstalks, I don't think we've made the necessary adjustments for.

A

Education and the sheriff, um so I want us to uh take a little deeper look into uh and that's.

A

Education and that's all but and the sheriff and education is all but two million dollars.

D

Say a million eight million nine right. So I guess my I understand, but where does it come from.

D

Because I don't think any of us seem too inclined to cut anything ted. I have a quick.

I

Question, if I might so we're looking at various items, be it non-profits, be it positions and such.

I

For a number of different organizations like economic development and rec council they've.

I

Got grants that they're giving out to various non-profits and such is that their determination.

I

That they put that in as the grant or is that. How is that? How is that calculated and decided.

B

For the most part, I would say it's a decision, a board made at some time. At some point, I think.

B

We've occasionally been surprised in economic development by something, but not big numbers.

B

Okay, now, if we were hypothetically to adjust any of those uh and say remove any of those with that.

I

Money then go back into those departments, or is that money that could be utilized elsewhere.

B

You know well, my starting point would be: if we're not going to fund something, then it has nothing.

B

To do with their budget anymore and the if we go to the bottom line and be part of all your.

B

Other decisions- okay, thank you. I guess in in on that. How specific are some of the grants? If, if.

D

They didn't pass the money through. Would we still get the grant.

I

Well, we're granted we're granting the money to other nonprofits yeah it's coming from us, so.

F

You're using the term grant, but you don't mean grant, I don't mean a grant incentive. No okay,.

F

Gotcha, so you threw me off too okay, so what are we talking about? Are we talking about money that.

I

We're giving the markets to give to non-profit that we give out some other now problems. So, okay,.

F

Grants yeah grants gets used in different ways, but I think the focus here is there are some.

B

Places where there is no grant there's no grant process, there's no competition, we're just saying.

B

Here's five thousand dollars toward what you're doing correct. There's, not a lot of those things.

B

But there are a few and I'm not suggesting those would get us to the finish line of what you're.

I

Looking at, but I will say that in looking at some of these and I'm still kind of reviewing a few.

I

um I know commissioner vigliotti and I were talking about a couple of them.

I

Earlier, I think some of them might really be worth looking at because to your point about.

I

Safety and education and yes, it is quality of life, and I will include those in that on part.

I

Of that, I think the challenges some of them have been funded at numbers that I have to.

I

At least fiscally questioned when we're looking out for the people's money, it's nothing against.

I

Those organizations- it's just a reality check of, and you know you said it the other day yourself.

I

Commissioner kyler, why can't they go out and fundraise, and that was a fair assessment and.

I

I think you know, what's kind of where we may need to start pulling some uh money. It's low, it's low.

I

Hanging fruit, it's not going to solve it, but I think it's something we should consider looking.

I

At over the next day, and even maybe tuesday, just to clean up a few things, yeah and I think if we.

D

Don't do it in the budget process, we need to look at in the coming year saying: what are you willing.

D

To do what are you willing to give back? What are you willing to fundraise, so I I agree because yeah.

A

I don't disagree either. Part of it is not just the expectation but the partnership that they have.

A

With some of the problem like that circle of caring, like their engagements in that you know,.

A

um uh Access carol their engagements in that uh allow us to make an easier decision on.

A

Providing funding, there's shelters that may not, and I'm not going to you know, throw them out now.

A

Because I'd have to look at the list, but there's some that kind of are clear and then you're right.

A

There's some that yeah, we should take a hard look, because just because we did doesn't mean.

A

We should continue and it's it's something, and I agree with you completely it's one of those.

I

Things that, if we're all potentially interested in going that route in the next day or so I can.

I

Finish pulling some reports because just putting it out there with all of them, you know all these.

I

Guys have 990s and we can pull up and see what their revenue is every year, how their expenditures.

I

Are and so forth and so on, and I realize for some we're a very tiny piece of that revenue. I know.

I

They appreciate it and we appreciate all that they do for the community. But when we're talking about.

I

Heavy lifting of everything, from education and and so forth, I think we really have to question- is.

I

That the best use of the publix money- it's nothing against them. It's just a case of. Is that really.

I

The best option for that funding an idea came up in there somewhere, just so you're all comfortable.

B

If you're ever looking at cutting funding somewhere, that would impact a revenue we will. We.

B

Will always tell you if you cut that dollar you're also going to lose this 50 cents or 25 cents, so.

B

You know what the actual the actual net benefit is right. I I couldn't agree with commissioner.

F

Gordon moore and I've started I've committed myself to taking a look at some of these as.

F

Well, but then I think commissioner rosti and what you're saying also is that yeah there's there's.

F

Money that we give to non-profits that do the job, maybe better than we could and those that's.

F

A different category, but there are, I think there are instances out there that, as as commissioners.

F

We owe it to our county taxpayers to look at where some of these funds are going and if they.

F

Had their choice, whether they'd be going to the sheriff's department or the school system, that'd.

F

Probably be their choice as opposed to where they might be going now, and I do feel as though that's.

F

What people come to expect out of a out of a new board yeah, you know, take a fresh look at things.

F

I know time is dwindling on that process, so I'm in the process of taking a look.

F

At some things myself, but yeah, that's the time. I guess I agree. If we look at the.

A

The the 10 non-profits that we're funding, although it's not dollar for dollar but.

A

There are some that they add value for us, but you know if I have to choose between.

A

Magic, which is a very good organization and funding salaries for our teachers. I want to.

A

Fund salaries for teachers to make sure that our teachers are the best in our school system,.

A

You know or magic against having a salary for keeping a deputy on the streets, especially.

A

Some of the conversations that we're having uh most recently right so again, it's not going to.

A

Be dollar for dollar. We know that it's much less but- and I just don't- have the list in front of me.

A

They're, all they all have a purpose, and some of them may just have to take a.

A

Pause from our dollars for a year two years, three years x, amount until we get through.

A

The unknown, unless ted, has a crystal ball about blueprint, you know, and all of income tax.

A

I mean we gotta make those decisions in those decisions um again, just because they're in.

A

Place now doesn't mean they have to stay in place tomorrow, and uh I am very open to that because.

A

I want to see funding. I want to see full funding for education and our sheriff on the non-profits. I.

B

Just want to make sure clear: we've had different discussions that maybe don't match up perfectly.

B

We've talked about having 10 non-profits that we fund those are the ten, but there's actually.

B

A budget line where you can see here a dollar is going to target right, but then, as um because.

B

Your gordon was bringing up. There are some other non-profits that don't have their own budget line.

B

That are getting lined through somebody else money through somebody else's budget. That's a smaller.

B

Number and it's smaller dollars, but the number of non-profits is in 10, it's 15 or something yes,.

E

A

um Yeah I mean we can we can look at the nonprofits now.

A

It's just a good, you know, which is important. I mean we got to do it. You know.

A

um We can pull them up and see what they look like and make them green, amber and red and.

B

Deb sent you an email today about the earlier today about non-profits that are.

B

Getting funding through somebody else, do you all have that with you? I do in front of yours.

C

I can pull it up: okay, quick question: while we're doing that, is there any way? Well, maybe do that and.

I

Then I'll ask the I'll. Have you do? The second part? Is there any way to pull up numbers wise.

I

uh To commissioner rothstein's point: how far of a deficit, I guess I'll use that word, are we on.

I

The education and um the sheriff right now just a curiosity. What's that total that we we're off bye.

C

Based on what they requested- uh yes, uh okay! Well, they request the school board. We they requested.

C

6.7 and then we reduced it by one million dollars correct, so they got an additional 5.7.

I

Because we're off a million there and what are we off with the sheriff.

A

1.695 800 about 850 000 in the first year, we're missing half of that. So we're.

I

Looking at one one, eight, four, seven, five, one: eight five: okay yeah. I know.

B

To some people just words, but I want to come back to this again. We're not cutting anything.

B

In both cases, we're increasing funding to these agencies just not as much as they wanted correct.

A

I know, but I want to see that added back so I have a. I want to figure out an equation. Okay, so for a.

A

Formula to get that 1.85 back, I have a scenario that we might play out. If you guys are interested.

H

I was thinking about this over the last couple of minutes with the wanting to restore the sheriff.

H

To full funding, putting the million dollars back into education, the wrecking parks position and.

H

Then the landfill position and it goes back into recreation taxes, and it goes back to.

H

Well, I mean whenever you guys are ready. I can lay out what I'm thinking, oh god, joe go ahead.

B

I'm doing split screen of the op plan and the email.

B

If it's not an easy, yes don't worry about it. I just wondering.

K

Could but I don't know if I'd have enough room to okay, so I need to make sure I have some rows here.

H

Sorry for all the trouble we're causing you no, no! This is what we're saying this is the magic.

B

There's also a big difference from how it used to be. You know, there'd.

B

Be a commissioner proposal to do something, and it would literally have to be well we'll work.

B

On that tonight and come back to you tomorrow, to give you the information.

B

I also put a lot more constraints on just what ifs you know. What, if we do, this well change.

B

That a little bit you know it's like. Okay, give us two give us three and we'll we'll run the numbers.

B

Right right, so one of them was reverse the boe right, give them the one million back. Okay and then.

H

Restore the sheriff from half to whole, although ted doesn't want to use the word restore but give.

A

Them whole refund his request. His additional orders fully fund the sheriff's request, yeah.

A

I just see the blood pressure moving up a little bit over there, so.

C

Okay, all right, then, what is the cost of the wrecking park's position.

B

71 . um reckon this works is 71 420.

H

And then the uh landfill position.

A

Seven, six: ninety, oh! What is it yeah.

E

What's that sure bigly how they won the lottery and didn't tell us? Well, maybe I don't know he's.

H

Giving us one-time funding this actually wouldn't come on here. It would go into an enterprise fund.

C

And then, if you did the offsetting change in the tip fee? Okay, so that's all right! So I want.

H

To add the tipping fee from 65 to 66., okay, I'm gonna put this then somewhere else, I'm gonna.

C

Take this and put it down here.

L

Why not go 65 to 67.

E

Well, I mean it's the the calculation and I don't.

A

Want to slow you down, but the calculation and tipping fee is.

A

Can we maintain the amount of money per ton, so it was 64 two years ago to now or 64-65 to maintain.

A

The service where people will go somewhere else, so if it's just an additional dollar.

A

The risk in losing people is minimal. If you try to raise it ten dollars, then it's people are going to.

A

Be like screw, this go somewhere else, excuse my language, um but it may be somewhere where.

A

It's instead of one dollar two dollars, you know, will people be like yeah? I can still handle this.

A

um And then we take one of those dollars and put it into the general funds and the other dollar.

A

Into the enterprise fund nope, because again fees I can handle taxes become very challenging because.

A

Right and that's and part of the reason why I guess you know we had the discussion about the.

H

Recreation taxes because they don't hit everybody every year right if the intent is to try to make.

H

Sure that people can still afford their food, then you know we do not want to touch property.

H

Taxes, we do not want to touch income taxes and knowing that we only have a recreation tax and.

H

Knowing that ours is not as high as certain counties, especially when you combine that with.

H

Transfer right taxes, right or fees, um so if we make recordation 6.75 cents sure all right.

B

Make something like five million dollars.

H

We're six 650 675, something like that.

H

And that is our current bottom line. Now, yes, with all the changes.

L

Great, I just can't see going 675.

A

And I'm I'd echo your opinion on that because I think we're. I think at that point we're really.

I

Pushing too much so you're going to make it 650 and see how the numbers look there.

H

It's not an easy conversation and I, as everybody knows I have such issues with with tax increases.

H

Of any kind- but I am you know- wanting to fully fund the sheriff and to commissioner rossi to get.

H

That million dollars back to the school board, like you want, um I it's it's without hitting people in.

H

Their everyday expenses hitting people in their their property taxes, their income, taxes, um let.

A

Me, um yes, I'm sorry, no, no, no, I was gonna say, make a suggestion and that is um not going to 675.

A

Going to additional two dollars in the tipping fees so from 65 to 67, taking.

A

One of those dollars putting it back into the general fund.

A

Keeping the one dollar to allow for that position, not putting in the hashua position.

H

So you think that recreation should be six recreation.

A

At no higher than 625, but I think even that's a significant right. But.

A

If we were to go to 625, let's see what it looks like okay and then we'll up. Okay, thanks.

I

That's just a quick question: if we were going to include that additional.

I

Position there is there any real and I know they're gonna tell us otherwise, but is there.

I

Any massive change to production or what they can do on that end or is that just filling a position.

B

Yes, they're they're under pressure now, okay, this is this is not. This would be releasing.

I

Some of that yeah that would be oh okay. I just want to confirm that that's fine, okay,.

A

And I understand the wrecking park's womp there, um but.

A

Just hard-pressed I mean, and they also do a lot with volunteers. We can volunteer promotion, you know program and.

A

A

But I think tape putting the dollar back in the tipping fee so where what's that dollar coming.

D

From so so, the tipping fee yep so 65 at making it 67 keeping one of those dollars in the enterprise.

A

Fund to fund that position and then taking the other dollar and putting in general fund.

A

Yeah I mean that that keeping in mind that um that what you'd in reality be doing is there's.

G

A transfer from general fund to the solid waste fund because it does not make enough money to.

G

um Cover all the expenses of the solid waste operation, and so both dollars.

G

Would go to the enterprise fund that you would just be reducing the amount of that.

D

Transfer by that amount right, it would save on the transfer, yeah right. Okay,.

H

So another question and I I'm not quite sure whether.

A

Let's see what this sorry, no, no I apologize. I didn't know you guys.

C

Have you done all that deb yeah hold on hold on.

C

6.2 5 per 500 on the recreation and the other expenditure changes that you had asked for. So the.

H

Wrecking parks position at hashua is there grounds to make that a part-time rather than a full-time.

H

Position I mean: is that plausible is that I think they need to pull the full time. So what what's so.

D

You always back the sheriff's back right now. You show wrecking parks in the landfill.

D

You need to show oh, I apologize. You still have wrecking parks in there.

D

Right now, yeah take out wrecking parks, see what that looks like well. Can we look at.

D

The bottom line with it yeah yeah- this is the bottom line. What is it negative, 1.16.

A

So that's what I'm saying is take out the wrecking parks just to see what it looks like.

B

Reduction to the general fund transfers wait. What is that minus one point.

H

Now it's negative 1 million forty four thousand six. Seventy five got it.

H

Foreign, I think we talked for a little while on tuesday about the reinstituting of certain impact fees. I.

H

Don't know whether or not that's something easily calculable or not, but again it doesn't make sense.

H

That you know we're going through all these issues with the school system and new houses.

H

Are being built and they're not contributing toward the school system in which they're going.

H

To be participating, but impact fees only go to capital projects right, but and the thing.

H

Is is that we have capital expenditures in the future that we're going to have to contend with? I.

H

Mean what was it? Somebody said a couple weeks ago that if we filed the formula correctly, we have to.

H

Either do additions or remodelings or buildings or yeah? What you're I think referring to is.

A

Transferring teachers from the south to the north it'll cause larger classroom sizes for.

A

Those teachers, so they would need to expand the classrooms and facilities potentially.

A

Is is a major concern, especially down in the south.

A

A

Yeah I mean I that's gonna, be tough, so going back to the tipping fee discussion.

F

I I feel like we're operating in a bit of a vacuum. Right now, do we need to hear from.

F

Dpw on that particular dollar figure and raising the tipping fee by that much I.

F

Mean have they conducted a a market study of sorts to. Let us know what that impact's.

F

Going to be because, obviously it's going to hit residents, you know usually I use that landfill.

F

So I might hauling a ton of stuff there, but it's going to go up by a buck or so perhaps.

F

But it's the commercial folks that we have to worry about yeah, there's a a small number that we.

B

Need to worry about this is not a large study and I cliff is saying that he's comfortable one dollar.

B

Would not impact us now. The impact on the payer is, you know, is a different story. Yeah well, but that's.

F

What he's saying, then, I'm sorry go ahead, miss winter, if I may, um if the board was interested.

G

In increasing it by two dollars, I definitely would want to hear from um solid waste folks, because.

G

That could have a significance, yeah, and thank you because that that's that would be my concern now.

F

I'll I'll give I'll give cliff credit, I mean he knows what he's talking about when it comes to.

F

Landfill, so if he's at 65 yeah, it's currently 65., so 2. horses, three percent increase, which.

D

To the he's saying he's comfortable with one we're checking: okay, he's: okay with two yeah. I.

B

I don't know how much room he was seeing clearly enough to say one: okay. No, it's it's a good point.

A

I mean we're not the experts in tipping fees, but he is so I mean one. One dollar is 95 000 right.

G

So that would be so if you are interested in in sort of reducing the amount that we transfer from.

G

The general fund to solid waste by a dollar's worth of tipping fee. It would only change that.

G

One dollar, 195 000., just and cliff, is also saying these. We believe he could go two dollars on c and.

B

D, waste c d, construction and demolition- that's the that's the commercial yeah, so yeah! So here in row,.

C

114, if he did both actions, the two dollar increase in c and d and the one dollar increase in msw. You.

C

Would have 145 000 of additional revenue based on the tonnage that are projected um the cost.

C

Of just so, you can see how much the cost of the leo the the position, landfill equipment operator.

C

um You could fund that and still have a reduction in your solid waste transfer of about 67.

C

000.: okay: okay: we have an answer from cliff, very comfortable with one dollar on msw and.

B

Two dollars on c and d iffy on two dollars: msw; okay, so that goes back down to one dollar.

A

I mean we got to associate risk associate, you know with what decisions we're making.

A

So bring it back down to that one dollar um foreign.

B

I don't have a good answer for that. He didn't play powerball.

H

And it's got to be ongoing, it's not just right so we're! So where are we at now bottom line wise.

I

Yeah, we like you, can go back to the bottom, okay, so that this the school board asked for 13.4 million.

F

Dollars and up to a few minutes ago, we were providing them with 92.5 of what they asked for.

F

We're trying to meet everybody's salary requests that are gonna that never go away. You can multiply.

F

Everything by five ten, whatever you you know it creates it- affects the bottom line out to fy29.

F

You know public works projects aren't getting any cheaper, so we've got to look at one of those three.

F

Things if we want to do what we want to do, I think so, what are we gonna instead of adding.

F

Money we need to be looking at taking money away. I think we had the across the board. Salary increases.

F

At four and a half when we left on tuesday but again we're these things, never go away. Cost wise.

A

So so, if if you were willing to take 500 out of board of ed and 500 out of the sheriff.

D

We we'd about be done and I I don't.

J

Know so I don't mean because, yes, I understand what you're saying I just.

A

Want to be clear, they're asking for 6.7 in addition to what we have in the budget.

D

And and their mindset is which ted said a couple times- we're not cutting anything.

D

Right we're adding 6.2 and we're adding one point: five 1.63, yeah, yeah and and.

D

It's uh some got zero more that they asked for.

D

And very few, if any got a hundred percent, but uh it's it's tough.

D

And what's recordation in here now 6.25, I think.

A

Yeah, I think, but but we haven't vote on anything. No. It's 6.25 yeah, okay, but we have voted on six.

C

We yeah we voted on six, we haven't voted on 625. and we definitely didn't vote on.

A

6.75, I I think the recreation tax I'm I got. I have a settlement in april, one in may and.

D

The realtor doing it the title companies- probably going to call me- um has said I don't see this.

D

As significant and what I can see like, like, I think I said in here the other day, uh uh a 400.

D

000 house you're adding 800 bucks. So if we had 1200, um they may come back and say well we're.

D

Not giving you 400 we'll give you 3.99., I think it's all going to be negotiated in that I don't.

D

I may be naive, but I don't see somebody not buying a house. They want.

D

Because of the reputation tax, and particularly when we don't have a transfer tax, it's a.

E

Yeah, I agree easy for me to say, because I'm selling, I was surprised that it wasn't more.

D

Title sheets: no, I I agree with you what, if we did that, what if we looked at.

A

The 6.25 and the 500 000.

H

I think this is up there now right, 16.25 is in it now yeah, but but changing the 6.7 to 6.2.

A

And then, whatever additionally gave to the sheriff cutting that in half.

A

It's even funding the share if it's 75 instead of correct okay,.

A

A

Citizen services, where are the other non-profits? That's the email deb sent earlier, mostly in.

B

Economic development- I just want to reckon parks this. uh No, I want to say it might be a.

I

So, oh, I see so quick question looking at uh economic development, so we're giving.

I

Let me see here other contributions that shows 31 000, the heart of the civil war.

I

Is there a specific minimum or is there tiers that we're giving or we just chose to give 31.

I

000 I know the year before is 35, I'm just trying to make sense of that.

J

I don't know the person will get back to you. Take your time. It's I'm asking some abstract.

I

Questions right now, so it's fine, um the other one to follow up on. That would be the greater.

I

Baltimore economic alliance- clearly that's been 20 000 a year. According to this, since fy 20., um I'm.

I

Just curious the same situation is there a reason it has is its 20 or is that our choice or is there.

I

Are there tears of giving that we're choosing to uh participate in part of the civil war and.

B

The baltimore are the 31 and 20 are those set numbers that, if we're going to be in, we have.

B

To give them I'd have to I'd, have to check with them. I'm not sure I I think I don't know about.

A

The one, but I think the economic clients greater baltimore, which is now the gbc they emerged. I.

A

Think that's a set amount of 20 000.. um Just out of curiosity, we can find out either way.

G

A

um Yeah uc is paying for uh what's his name, darren yeah, upstairs yes, correct.

A

Chamber ctc magic here, I'll just I'll just throw an id out. I don't know what we're going.

I

To find out on the heart of the civil war and the uh economic alliance- oh there, it is so if.

I

We took uh economic alliance if we can, let's, if we cut that to 10, let's say we cut that in half.

I

And let's say heart of the civil war: we just make that fifteen thousand.

A

What is the heart of the civil war say? uh Historic-Based group, that's uh maryland,.

I

And a variety of other jurisdictions: how do we participate? I know when I can't honestly.

I

Answer that today, so if we pull those so the 10 and then the 15 and then if we come down.

I

To magic, tech, council and chamber of commerce, if we pull the 10 000 from the chamber or the 7500.

I

From the tech council in the 7500 from magic, that would give us what fifty thousand dollars.

I

Now you've got the one at 16., I'm at 50., we're cutting it by 16., okay, 31 right.

G

That's what you mean? That's fine, yeah, that's fine! No! I got you. No we're good.

A

Roberta, do you know who's involved with part of the civil war? Yes, um uh tourism and and.

G

uh Planning um they are very active. We get grants um from them, our our. There are historic corridor.

G

um Entities within that corridor get can receive grants and um I don't know again: I'm not familiar.

G

With why these dollar amounts are what they are yeah, that was my only question is why there's.

A

Down here, they're headquartered in frederick, I'm looking at it for some reason haven't.

G

um The executive director has been before uh the boards before, but.

G

um Not doesn't come all that often the um the the tech tech council on magic.

G

um You know I don't, I don't think there are any questions about those are just dollars.

E

Correct to help them out, I'm not, I don't have any expectations, I'm not sure about.

G

The chamber chamber is just a flat amount because we have the membership and then.

I

The county pays for various events and so forth. We go to that's just an additional.

I

Ten thousand of them from what I learned from economic, this economic development this week.

I

So not our membership now that it's not our membership, that's ten thousand, above and beyond,.

I

um Just I was told it was just an actual grant. We give to them as additional funds. [ __, ] job.

G

Competition, that's what chamber puts on yeah. It helps sponsor the carol. Biz challenge. That's what.

G

Ten thousand to the change right.

H

H

Missing something here and and please somebody correct.

H

Me if I'm there's something that I am missing, you're missing, yeah.

H

If, um if heart of the civil war heritage area, I was just looking at their website, talks about.

H

Grants and funds to people right. Why are we giving them money instead of getting money from them.

H

Well, we actually do various entities- if I remember correctly- and don't quote me on this- but I believe.

I

Examples will be like the uh historical society, the farm museum organizations like that can and.

I

Do apply for grants from them, so we fund them to fund other people and we also fund other people.

D

Yeah I mean, I know I'll be honest.

D

Is 51 grand is way more important to these individual groups than it is to us? Well, I'm.

I

Not gonna have a soft heart for the non-profits and uh listen to what we heard this morning.

D

um I don't know what this fixes for us. Well, the ones, those in citizen services we're not touching.

A

That's not what he's addressing? No, I'm not interested in that at all.

I

um Because everyone that you're talking about, I hundred percent, don't want to touch. I agree.

D

I agree, but these I'm not sure I guess I guess the question is and I don't have all the numbers.

I

In front of me today, they're upstairs, but if I sit down- and I show you some of these.

I

Numbers versus some other comparisons, you might change your opinion and that's not taking away.

I

From any of these, I'm just looking at into your point on tuesday, you said: well, why can't they.

I

Fundraise so to your to your own argument, I'm looking at how do we pull money from x.

I

For y, if we're looking at safety and education, be it fifty thousand or five hundred thousand.

D

Stuff yeah, I understand what you mean, commissioner carley, for me also. I I.

F

Every single one of those numbers I look at, I just yeah, you know you multiply it.

F

Exponentially because it never goes away, if we don't make any change correct so that 25.

F

000 can quickly become a hundred thousand dollars before.

F

This board ends.

A

That is not uncommon, I mean I, I sponsored lots of organ non-profits from economic development.

A

In anne arundel, and it just kept going on coming back to me and said, can you give.

A

Me 10 more thousands, oh yeah! Really I agree so it's time all over. I get you um just just.

G

Looking quickly at their website and fy 23 award winners of some of their funding, the homestead.

G

Union mills got 4.6 thousand dollars; the farm museum got 1.8 000 one um union mills again. I.

E

Win 21. got four historical society got 2.3, so um yeah it funds various things. These are what they.

G

Call their mini grants, so you were saying that was 2 300., you said 2.3 I was making sure I heard you.

I

Say two thousand three: okay just want to make sure for clarification. I was like wait a minute.

F

Sorry, ms winning, that was heart of the civil war- that's yeah, okay, so they they give out grants to.

G

Historic related um organizations and properties and things things that meet their criteria.

G

And that are in their funding area. They have a very specific, very outlined area.

G

That includes sort of the western, so the western half of carroll, most of frederick and.

G

um Some of washington county, if I recall quickly.

A

Historical society, carroll county, yes, is a non-profit correct, we're giving them 80 000 a year.

I

Is it 80, or so I think it goes to 60 this year? If I read that correctly, I was looking at that myself.

I

It is 60, correct, it's 60 and then they were asking for 20 000 they're, asking for twenty thousand for.

I

The next three years for that other project, which have mixed, I have mixed emotions on that. I'm just.

I

Going to be blunt, I had mixed emotions when they presented that's nothing against or for.

I

Them either way and to your point on tuesday and I hate to keep bringing that up, I'm opposed to that.

I

No, I understand that. I think the question though, and I think it's a good question- was it was either.

I

uh With all respect, it was either the previous board.

I

It was either last year or the year before, funded them for repairs on their building.

I

And that was a sizable amount of money. If I do recall- and you know some of these organizations.

I

My point is, we go back to 1999 and we can start adding these totals up and it's a million seven.

I

For x organization- or it's whatever for why, and I think the challenge becomes that I've.

I

Always assumed this was going to happen. One day I didn't think blueprint was going to be the monster.

I

In the closet, you know that 1.7, yes, it's over x number of years, but that's still money that.

I

We could be using for safety and security and education versus some other things. Now we would.

I

Have the opportunity maybe to work with some of these groups and try to see if they can.

I

Steer the ship a little differently, shall we say, and they could then do more on their own versus.

I

Coming to us for whether it's twenty thousand or eighty thousand or anything else, obviously.

I

They all fit a piece of the community and I think they're they have importance. I think the question.

I

Is to your point, commissioner, rothstein, when we're looking at security, safety and education.

I

How do they fit in and are they on the top end of the priority? Are they farther down? It's not.

I

That they're not important, and I realize some of these numbers are very low, but it's still.

I

It's an ongoing number, I agree and you know union mills we provide 20 000 union mills is one of the.

A

Highlights of carroll county along with the farm, museum and other locations that people attend so.

A

You know it's it's a kind of almost a blunt, but it yeah. It's obvious historical society, carroll.

A

County giving them 80 000 to now sixty thousand you're right. That's a lot of money. Ongoing.

A

I and I appreciate the things they do, because I've been over there and I've I've participated.

A

But that's a lot of money, and but union mills we also pave and money. Thank you. I know and do.

I

Maintenance yeah. So it's far above the hundred and it's far above the twenty thousand, we'll.

I

Start adding all that in I, I think, at least from my perspective, when I don't know what I've been.

I

Really discussed this with any of you and I don't have a definitive thought here. It's why I wanted.

I

To have today and then the weekend to kind of continue some thoughts plus we're meeting with.

I

Them today, you know there's two options: we can continue to fund the way we do actually.

I

There's three options: we can cut them all based on whatever reasons or we could potentially look.

I

At some of them and make some adjustments this year, and let them know that hey this may be this.

I

Year, but next year is not going to be this, nor is the year after because we have other priorities.

I

That are, you know, mass significance that we need to uh focus on. So my recommendation is that we.

A

Take a hard look at them now and make a significant adjustment. Now they can have the.

A

Conversation like everybody else, is watching to build their argument, and if it you know.

A

Strong enough to bring back then we'll bring it back, but um you know we shouldn't leave.

A

Here today, without trying to get as close to that zero as we can and.

A

If I'm looking at all of these other non-profits and citizen services for all the work, they're.

A

Doing I just and I'm trying to equate them, I'm having a really tough time doing that.

A

So- and I understand that, but the 51 ongoing yeah doesn't fund half of a position 51 what oh, the.

I

Money, the money we had just totaled up from the other and I'm not I'm not suggesting it would I.

D

Think I don't want to speak for ted, but he rounded to zero today and it was a larger figure than 51.

D

I think if we get the budget within 51 he's going to be very happy yeah for 24. If we're talking.

B

About tens of thousands of dollars, we we will yeah, so I just I just don't think this is a discussion.

D

Worth an hour time, well we're in the middle of the budget, but I think you know the historical society.

A

You know sixty thousand, why not bring them down to twenty thousand all right ongoing. I understand.

I

Well, I think the other question though, and I don't like I said I have some notes upstairs.

I

And we can all look at it over the next couple days, but irregardless of whether.

I

It's the historical society or any of these other groups. I think the real question is: what's their.

I

Bottom line, because, to your point, commissioner kyler, you said well we'll let them fundraise so.

I

I think the real question is: let's not look at what they're asking for and let's not look at.

I

What who they are, let's pull up their 990s and go. What were your revenues last year? What were your.

I

Expenses, what were your, what was your payment to your employees? How much assets do you have.

I

Because the reality is, you know twenty thousand, ten thousand whatever. Is it a big deal to them?.

I

It may be a drop in the bucket and I realize it's a drop in our bucket, but I think it has a little.

I

More significance to us getting the taxpayers and the teachers and everyone else to where.

I

They probably are going to be more comfortable moving now and forward versus just keeping it.

I

Status quo because I think status quo is what kind of has got us in trouble over the last 30 years.

I

It hasn't been status quo, it's been adjusted some down and some up assume with the reason.

A

Well part of the equation to everything you just said, which um I I do agree with.

A

A large part equation is what is their impact to carroll counties? Absolutely, and you know if they.

A

Are building their operational nest egg larger than some others, and they are moving money. The.

A

Way they see fit because not every executive director gets paid the same as every other.

A

Absolutely executive director, the bottom line is what is their impact to carroll county ends and.

A

um That's why this heart of the civil war, which I fully respect, although I may not know as much.

A

About them, as I probably should, or historical society of carroll county there's an impact.

A

But could they do yeah the same amount of impacts with on those amounts, a significant less amount of.

A

Money and it's very possible, I think the question and I don't disagree with you. I think the question.

I

Would be given the longevity of those amounts that we've been giving to some of these organizations.

I

Do we have that frank conversation with them this year fund them, whether it be 100 of what the.

I

Current number may be, or slightly less and then make significant adjustments. As we've all talked.

I

About you know as soon as this budget's over the next one starts, so I think the thing is, I don't.

I

Want to throw the baby bird out of the nest and let it crash. We want all of these organizations to.

I

Be successful, but I think the reality is whether it be this or whether it be something else with.

I

Larger numbers, I think we have to ask the question: it's not our money, it's people's money and when we.

I

Have people constant, you know not to beat a dead horse, but you had you said a couple. People at your.

I

Town hall, commissioner kyler that were like well, why are you guys funding x now granted? That's that.

I

Person's opinion- and we get emails all the time about that, but I think if we want to start looking.

I

At really making change, which we have to be it, you know blueprint the rest of it. Let's, let's.

I

Look at moving forward and adjusting these numbers, be it starting. We need to look at it. I mean again.

D

My humble opinion, 20 of this is the carol business challenge that does a lot for carroll county. That.

D

Fills that building- that's, I missed it this year and I regretted missing so I I would not cut that.

B

Here we have a little bit more information for you and then maybe I can make a suggestion on this.

B

B

Part of the heart of the civil war or the civil war, and what was the other, the business council.

B

We believe that we do have discretion on how much we fund there and on the big picture for this.

B

Just recognizing where we are in the process, I'm going to suggest we do one of two things: either.

B

Take some boats on what are we willing to do right now and say: maybe we'll discuss this more in the.

B

Future or say we're not going to act this year, but we want to talk about this more. We still have.

B

Okay, big questions to deal with; okay. No, I don't disagree with you. I think realistically.

I

If everybody'd be okay with this, what I'd like to do is put a pin in this, since we've obviously.

I

Got bigger issues and, let's, since ted mentioned earlier, we're gonna have to clean up some issues.

I

Let's talk about this briefly on tuesday everybody come in with whatever decisions they want to talk.

I

On these topics and and hit this in a brief period of time, I guess my question would be.

D

um This doesn't affect the budget and we're here to talk about budget. When do we spend that money.

D

Do we, in other words, just because it's in the budget doesn't mean we need to have to spend.

D

It with these agencies, or just in general, he's, I think you mean these yeah, that's a good question.

F

When does that money actually get executed go out? Okay, there there are different payment.

B

Schedules for different organizations, but with the things we're talking about here, my guess is.

B

Probably most or all of them get their money july 1st or right or close to the year. So so whether.

D

We leave it in a budget today or not. We have time to talk about it. Oh yeah, I'm about to final.

B

Budget you even putting it in the budget is not a commitment to spend it. You could still change your.

B

Mind with a few exceptions, you know if you commit to the school system, then you're committed, but.

B

If you commit to the heart of the civil war, you could change your mind on june 31st of the 31 days.

B

Okay and the other thing we still need to go back to is um solid waste. We talked about some.

B

Things, but we need to know, are we increasing the tipping fee a dollar? Are we increasing c.

B

And d two dollars and are you adding the position or not well and there's.

A

Okay, so that's there's other questions that we need. You need answers that we've made adjustments.

A

So we can start with what you just said, um because there were that we put into this already so.

A

um The recommended tipping fees changes uh and I really do appreciate cliff and you engaging with.

A

Cliff and getting that information um along with adding that position, are we in agreeance to that.

I

What was the amount again? It was one dollar two dollars and then the position.

G

um One dollars for municipal, solid waste, two dollars for construction and debris.

D

And at that position was 90, something right. I had that position which I thought was 79 77.. Okay. I.

D

Think emotion, we do those three things. Okay. Second, I got a motion. I got a second. I need to all right.

A

I'm sorry mike you good, I um I'm gonna, I'm gonna say no, but that's: okay! Okay! I just just.

F

I just feel like we're taking two steps, one step forward and two steps back here.

A

But I I can appreciate it: okay, the vote and- and that's honestly just.

A

Us because what the last couple years of my experience I didn't have, this was the.

A

Collaboration that we're having to have these conversations on. Why we're doing not the well.

A

I just said no well, why give me give me a feel, so we can move, I've lost a few, so so I know what.

A

It's like, but uh I hear you mike now, but it's good to understand why and we can go okay, so we talked.

A

About um the board of education, instead of going into a million um going to a half a million, so 6.2.

A

And on tuesday, I'm still going to try and fight for that other 500. Just let you know.

A

We'll figure that out.

A

A

Okay, so that's my motion to adding the 500. That's the bottom line now.

C

I believe this also reflects recreation at 6.25 right, we'll we'll get to that. Okay.

D

So right now, you're saying 6.6.2 the board of ed, correct.

A

That's my motion: is there a second on that.

H

I'm sorry you mean the 500 000. yeah, but it'll be a total of 6.2. Okay right.

D

My second, okay, let him beat me up last night. They might as well beat me up again.

A

Still just gonna try and figure out, there's numbers in this book. There's numbers in this.

A

Book that we can peel out and I'm going to show you but okay go into six point.

A

Five point: seven to six point: two: I got a motion. I got a second any discussion on this. Just one.

H

Quick question: I thought we were going to ask them to contribute something from their reserve or do.

H

We decide that was they can't use that reserve for any of that. Okay, that's all yeah yeah, okay,.

F

I thought we had and I even asked can we do like we did with ag press and do some one-time money.

D

And they said that, does it we're into eight positions and negotiation for salary, so it's.

D

All ongoing gotcha, okay, because I I thought that would be an easy way to accommodate them. You know.

A

I'm sorry, uh commission again, I thought we had already added back some into the boe budget when.

F

When we started here this afternoon, we didn't make a decision on it, so I added I added all of.

A

It back, but we didn't make a decision now, I'm bringing it back. Okay to 6.2, okay, had.

C

A million a million back in that's and then now it's 500. Now it's 500 instead of a million yeah.

A

I brought it back down to 500., okay, so with the intent to argue more on tuesday about it.

A

But yeah we're not done so okay, so I have a motion. I have a second and adding 500.

A

To make it clearly to make it 6.2, okay, is there any further discussion on this? All in favor, aye.

A

So we had, we had six, we had 5.7 correct and we started today. That's correct. I understand.

F

That's going to be a no for me, I I just don't think we're going to get where we need to be unless we're taking a look at the rate of cyber increases.

F

And the boe budget- I think we'll be doing this for a while, but.

F

Again, um you know 92.5 of what they asked for, and we still have a long way to go next year.

F

So either way we're going to do everything we can to do the right thing right, isn't.

D

To take out money, you're thinking, we should take out more well. I think we started yeah. I think at.

F

One point we were at 1.5 yeah and that seemed to work well for us on the bottom line and so yeah.

E

We're definitely going in a direction that I I opposite opposites and again. Clearly it's not.

A

About taking out money, it's about lessening the amount we're putting in, but I see what they say. We.

D

Started six seven right: I made it five seven! You made it six two! No! You made it five two correct.

D

We took that away and and yeah it's changed, but again, that's why it's back to 60. and the other.

A

Part and we're going to continue on the other part about this. It's not trying to brow, beat anybody or.

E

Beat somebody down to just a submission if you're not comfortable, to say it and we'll.

A

Keep moving so the next one was um the sheriff um at first, it was to fully fund his request.

A

And I'm still going to try and get that on tuesday. But in order to move forward to.

A

Provide sort of fully fund, his request is 1.695 million dollars.

A

And not doing that, making it 75 percent of that whatever that is.

E

A

So that's my motion. Do I have a second.

A

I got a motion. I got a second.

A

Any further discussion on this so you're just gaming out the numbers right now tuesday, you.

H

Intend to well my intent is to go up, but I'll tell you right now. My intent is to.

A

Really dig into our operational dollars and say what, if we took x off of this line, item.

A

Which we can do this is our recommended budget for operational dollars. It's not error.

A

Budget that we will adhere to it is the best that the team has provided us along.

A

With our entire team, but there are dollars here that we could take risk on. You know.

A

Within reckon culture or summary, now I don't want to tag anybody because yeah what you're.

D

Saying is flipped out you're hoping tuesday to take enough out. To maybe add some of this.

D

Back absolutely, except hope, is not a course of action. Okay, I'm I'm going to argue against that.

B

That's okay of that course of action. If there are places where you're thinking about taking.

B

Money out, I don't think we should wait till tuesday. I think we should be talking. No, no.

A

Okay and we- and we can do that- we can do that today and I'm prepared to do that as well. So.

A

Okay, because they're okay, there will undoubtedly be things that you're gonna say well, let's cut.

B

This and then we're gonna, say okay, but you don't understand that. That means this, I'm happy you do.

A

That as well so- but I think um so, where are we at now so emotion and a second has been made to.

D

The sheriff's requirement a request of salary increases to 75 percent.

A

Is there a further discussion on this again, I'm sorry, you intend to go with the full. You intend.

H

To talk about the full amounts, next argument will be: yes, maybe maybe that's yeah, that's kind.

H

Of where I'm falling on this too, so I'm I'm not opposed to looking at the numbers. So I no that's.

A

My intent, but we got to get there right right. You know just okay. Okay, all in favor, aye, okay got five.

A

Let's look at the recommendation: what's the bottom line right now: okay,.

A

So that includes the recreation we have all agreed to six point or six.

A

Six, we have agreed to six. What you see in front 65 is in here right. I know that's.

A

What I'm saying is what you see in front of us is 625, so we either have to agree to the 625.

A

Not the 6.75, but the six six two five uh or go back down to six. So before you make a motion not.

A

Necessarily me, okay, so from 6 68 it was 330 95, it was 350.03, it was five yep. So it's been 20 years.

D

Since it changed recordation correct.

A

And it's been about 10 12 years for the others, but for recreation, that's correct, yep! So, okay,.

A

Is there a motion to go from six to six point, two five, so moved? Is there a second.

D

A

Is there discussion on this? This is difficult.

F

I'm a uh I'm a no vote right now on this. I just think this is.

F

I think we're going back to this. I think we've been back to this.

F

As well a few times, and uh I'm just not ready to go back to it again right now, without taking a.

F

Harder look at some of these expenditures and that's again, salary increases um looks like.

F

We're funding the school system, almost every dollar that they wanted. I understand that, but.

E

Okay, um I have to slow the growth okay.

A

Definitely not cutting you off just looking any further discussion on this.

A

I have a motion. I have a second understand if something doesn't.

A

Go through robert's rules, those that make the motion cannot bring back the motion. Okay,.

A

Okay, all in favor aye against hey, no.

A

Okay, so that failed, two three, if you can bring it back down to six.

A

A

Reckon porks the sports complex.

A

Specifically, what is that? What is the sports complex, yeah? It's a facility on 97.

G

um There are a lot of ball fields there for both soccer lacrosse baseball, yeah, okay,.

D

Oh, I apologize I'm in the recommended operating budget. Now, I'm on page 35 right now,.

E

A

There are services that have all been increased, well sports, complex by 17 percent, but the others.

A

By 20 up to 37 percent, okay, most of the change you're looking at is due to the big salaries. The.

A

Salaries: okay, is that what it is the big expenditures there are are people I mean.

B

There's other other stuff yeah, but you're going to look at a lot of budgets where you're going.

B

To see what looked like unusual increases and it's because we made that very unusual change.

A

Are there, then, can you share with me areas that it's other than.

A

Those salary increases or no within the operation places where you have.

B

Big expenditures, other than salaries, would be things like roads and facilities and fleet.

B

There might be some some others where there's a little bit more than than others.

B

But just you know, as you're as you're trying to go here just want to make sure the board.

B

Understands the process that gets us to this point, you know all them have worked.

B

With these agencies on these budgets line by line expenditure by expenditure and they're doing that.

B

In context to the money that we think is going to be available so that whole process is driven by.

B

How do we continue to provide the same level of service or or or try to and stay within the budget.

B

You know so looking for places to say well, there's an easy cut to make. There aren't going to be any.

B

uh If we want to make expenditure reductions, we have to make choices to reduce services.

B

Or and this I would argue that this is a reduction of service, but sometimes people look at a little.

B

Differently delay doing things, but anything we're going to delay. I'm going to argue is just creating.

B

A problem for us later yeah, we can buy fewer vehicles, but that doesn't mean the vehicles.

B

We're saying need that need to be replaced need to be replaced. We can do fewer road miles, but that's.

B

Those roads aren't going up going away right. So if we're going to go down this path,.

B

I just think you should be very consciously thinking about. Where am I willing to advocate.

B

For a lower level service, and then we can tell you what dollars could go away with that right.

L

Or we can try the inner fund transfers.

A

We don't have flexibility or do we when we're talking about inner fund transfers.

B

In in some cases, well, probably in all cases, but you know an inner front transfer one would be.

B

Where we have the dedicated school construction money, if we're going to use it to pay debt service.

B

There's money transferred from the capital fund into the general fund if we're going to use.

B

Cash on a capital project, there's going to be a transfer from the general fund to the capital fund.

B

So the transfers are all things like that. Now you can choose not to put cash on a capital project if.

B

You don't put the cash on, then there's no transfer, but you know think of the tr. The transfers.

B

Are not really spending decisions they're the mechanics to put the money where it needs to be.

A

A transfer to capital funds is large. It's like 56 46 million dollars. Yes, that's because we're.

B

Putting a lot of cash onto projects remember earlier in this process we talked about.

B

How much bond planned bonds we eliminated to take the debt service off the bottom line.

B

You don't have to do that. You can reverse that, but every million dollars that we take.

B

Out of a cash for a project is not going to create increased death waste. We want to make.

A

It would make this look worse if you reduce cash on a project unless.

B

We're going to get rid of the project, then we're going to take on debt and said: okay.

D

So is the cash out of this budget.

B

If we reduce how much cash is going to the capital budget,.

B

That would not show up in the operating budget at all, and you would have more money sitting on.

D

The sidelines just the cost of the bond would show up yes, so it would make the bottom line worse. Yes,.

H

So with the 895 000 we have now, if we were to remove the 500 that we just.

H

Added back for the school board and then took another 500 000 out of pfos pfas pfas.

H

That will leave us with 2.5 of the original five that we were considering. It still puts.

H

Us above the lower end of the average for pfos remediation that I looked up the other day.

H

And that would give us a net positive balance of somewhere around a hundred thousand dollars.

B

Remediation, I wouldn't fall in love with those numbers and taking an average of them. You know.

B

We're taking a shot at right, something where we don't even know what the project is is yet and.

B

You know I'll continue to say you can put whatever number you're you want in there, but at some point.

B

We're going to be left to fund whatever it is exactly and that's fair. That's fair.

H

But if we're talking about you know going back to what we said a few minutes ago about major ways that we take steps forward.

B

Yeah and just on you know that and, commissioner what commissioner ross team is dan earlier.

B

Just want to go back to this idea as we brought to the recommended budget to you. We consciously.

B

Recommended taking a lot of one-time money, we had putting it into one-time projects so that.

B

It wasn't right building an ongoing um commitment right and it was also reducing and ongoing going.

B

Commitment by by reducing our our debt service, so it was a fairly significant change. Do we have any.

A

More of that available one-time money to do exactly what you just said, uh I don't think.

H

So because tuesday we had about, we, I think we put nine or eight million into the garage in 8 million.

H

Into future for bonds for the right, so here's what you have left from 22 half a million dollars.

B

Now, there's still what's 23 uh 24 million a projected 24 right and we've tried to steer.

B

You away from using that money in this budget, but I mean it is in your hands to choose to do that.

A

Because the 24 million is not a solid number, it's not a no number and if you use it now,.

B

In the next budget process, you don't have that to even consider anymore, because it's already gone.

A

But if we were to use some of it, it could get us to where we want to go.

B

Yes, you could use them like, unfortunately, using this salami slicing type approach,.

A

If we took four million like made that 20 million you know we're still safe, saying 20 million from.

A

That 4 million- and you know so it'd- be 4.5 million because we're taking from 22 as well.

A

What would that then look like um to our bottom line? 4.5? Okay, now I don't know, I'm not sure what.

B

Deb's going to try and do here, but just keep in mind that that's not an easy answer, because.

B

Part of it is tied to what projects and what the timing of those projects is going to be so.

B

We could put cash on a project in 29 and it will have no impact to the bottom line. You're looking.

B

At because the debt service is going to be in 30 and 31. right, so what did you do right now.

C

I only put the surplus revenue in a 4.5 million, so are you saying 4.5 million and reduced bonds.

C

Yes, I'm not sure, okay, so did you say that did he say I didn't say that, but you didn't say it.

B

But I assumed that that was yours isn't that what I would want to do? Yes, that's what I was.

B

Trying to explain so yeah you could just go to the parking garage put additional cash on there and.

B

That not that that's the only option, but that's at least one. We can easily look it's an easy one.

C

Well, it would just be in half right 4.5 million this debt service. I could. I could reduce by half.

C

And that would that would be the 4.5 million, because we were bonding 9 million right.

K

uh This would be and that just by itself will change the bottom line.

K

How would I use this surplus here? That would be 4 500.? It won't change the bottom line because we're.

C

Going to be putting cash on parking garage, okay, yeah! So if you wanted to help 24, it's not going.

B

To get there, if it, if you wanted, if you wanted to change, 24 we'd, have to find a project or projects.

B

Where we actually expect to spend money, not only spend money but issue bonds in 24.. This.

D

Debt service doesn't start this year right yeah, so it doesn't help and with with many of our projects,.

B

With most of our projects, we spend money before we even issue the the bonds. You know we figure.

B

Out that um you know, we've spent this five million dollars. Now we issue- and this probably.

B

Already happened now, if you remember not, but the comptroller will come to you every year to get.

B

You to prove uh a resolution to reimburse yourself what that is saying is we're going to spend money.

B

Knowing that we're going to issue debt later- and this is this- is the authority, I need to be able.

B

To go do that when it happens, here's what I could do, oh, I still need it needed to have that hacked.

K

C

No wait a second yeah. This would be a reduction. What's that.

C

I'm talking to myself actually don't interrupt her exactly. She gets all the right answers right, yeah.

G

So you're just taking a fictitious project yeah it's like if we were to read four and.

G

A half million dollars if we were to reduce four and a half million dollars from the fy24.

C

Planned bond sales- let's say we put it on roads: the road overlays instead of bonding okay, okay,.

C

um Because we have a certain amount of bonds, we plan to sell in 24. so unidentified.

L

And her time had bonds on roads is a a good example to think about how some of this plays.

B

Out, sometimes with roads we're doing this every year, very predictable right, you build. You know.

B

You do something like states attorney headquarters. We might have a plan for when it's going to happen.

B

But it doesn't always come off right in the same way. So it's not unusual for us to change.

B

Our projections- those are just estimates these last two ones- are estimates. So what would that do.

K

Wait a second, let me think about this she's still talking to herself. I am.

C

I am that's because it's not capturing everything.

K

A circular rifter, oh because I'm glad she does it. I don't think I could pull.

B

This off the way she does here, don't worry, I don't think you could either.

A

That's why you have a team.

K

You said not should not have had it, it shouldn't be so high yeah yeah.

G

It should have really no effect, except for the hundred and twelve thousand right. The surplus use.

D

Is gas so it it should be in and out and shouldn't change the total there we go yeah the formula.

C

Wasn't picking up the last two minutes? Okay and it would still be slightly under 800 000 yeah. Well,.

E

Okay, another nuance of this: when you're trying to look at how does reducing bonds affect your.

B

Debt service is the first year, is debt service only. uh I think it's just a half year payment.

B

So another one of these, the the further you try and get into it the more complicated it gets.

D

But it's if we, if we were done right now, we're still too far.

D

Off or for you guys to clean it up, and so we need to get closer.

B

Yes, once we know your decisions, then we can start making sure that it all actually works.

B

Yes and is real, and the the session on tuesday was set up as a a backup in case we needed it.

B

uh And that is really kind of the last day where it is realistic for them to.

B

All do the things they need to do to get this released at the time it has to be.

A

A

In doing this,.

A

A

The risk in doing this is taking 4 million away from potentially 24 million having less for.

A

Next year, yeah and and the risk associated with not coming in, I think, is fairly small.

B

And I don't know if you call it risk or not, but at least an impact to you is, you have.

B

Less flexibility next time around not having 24 but having only 20.. If those were the numbers. Okay,.

A

A

With that said, the motion, then, would be to.

A

Transfer the 4 million from fy 23 and 500 000 from fy 22. into debt service, starting in fy 24.

B

Well, it wouldn't be into debt service, it would be going as funding on a capital project.

G

That then impacts the debt services. So, okay, it becomes debt service that never happens. Okay,.

A

On to capital projects, that would be it. Okay. Does everybody understand what this is doing.

H

Yeah, I think, didn't we also briefly touch on this the other day too, about yeah.

A

So at least uh it is a step with relatively low risk, a minute I'll. Just I'll be honest. I do have.

H

Concerns about and again I know we're expecting that it's going to be a sizable amount that we're.

H

Going to have at the end of the current fiscal year, but I'm just not comfortable.

H

With leveraging what we aren't 100 certain we've got to try to help balance future years.

A

But I think it's relatively small compared to the 24 million. I mean if I was to say: let's.

A

Take 20 million out of the 24, then it'd be a different story. Look taking 4 million out of 24.

A

Yeah well conceptually, commissioner, big daddy, I'm right there with you, which is why we were.

B

Discouraging you know looking at projected 23 money, then, as commissioner rosting is.

B

Saying there's a spectrum of concern there yeah, if you said, can we can we take out a.

B

Hundred dollars, sure no worries can we take out 24 million I'd be very worried right.

H

Right and what about another 500 000 from pfos, because that would knock that number from 780.

H

Well, let's start with this: okay, let's start with this action first, I think, then we can.

A

Talk: okay, what I'm trying to do is keep up with uh sorry action. No, no! No.

A

Yeah we can talk, then people say okay. So that's my motion to do is just shares. Taking 500.

A

000 fy 22 4 million from fy 23 and putting against capital projects beginning in fy 24.

A

Is there a second on that.

D

A

Okay is your discussion.

H

I again, I totally take the point that it is. You know, based on that projection, it's a relatively.

H

You know small amount given the projection, but again I guess my concern is again not just the.

H

Fact that we haven't actually realized those numbers yet, but given the staggering years, I.

H

Mean even if we do not factor blueprint into the mix at all on this I mean we're. You know.

H

We're looking at years ahead, where you know we're we're already 2.2 million in you know, debt next.

H

Year, negative next year by fy, 29 were 15 million. You know, and I would much rather have something.

H

On hand, as I know, we're working on putting together like a you know that what was it ted.

H

The the certain percentage we're going to carry over for the flexibility. What did you call that.

H

So when we have a reserve contingency fund, but you wanted to set aside a certain amount of.

H

Money for future years for emergency, it would just be a spot in the unassigned fund balance.

H

All right and so- and so I understand that we have that, but given an emergency, we've never acted on.

B

That, oh okay! Well in that case and yeah that yeah that doubles my concern with with doing this so.

B

Yeah and kushner big daddy's just said something there for people listening. I want to make sure.

B

This clear, you know you, you said at one point: we'd be in debt 2.2 and then you changed it to.

B

2.2 short, I want to make sure people understand. uh This is not like the federal government where they.

B

Can operate at a deficit right? We have. We have no authority to do that when we get to that year. We.

B

Will have to balance that budget? I don't know what it'll take to get there, but that has to happen.

H

Right and I apologize- I should have been a little clearer about that. So people say it all the time.

D

So, essentially, by law, we have to balance this year's budget. Give us.

D

It would be smart to balance next year's in the next years, but we're not required correct.

A

But that's our target.

A

Okay, any further discussion on the action. That's on the table, there's a motion and there's a second.

A

All those in favor I I apologize yes mike. No, no, okay, take that action off thanks.

A

I feel like it's the um proverbial robin peter payne paul and it's that's my you know what I.

A

Mean I feel, like that's kind of the sense. I don't know. If that's that was my analogy, think about.

F

Going to the well, um I don't know if now might be a good time to figure out how we're gonna.

F

Wrap things up today, but I just I just I just don't if we're concerned about the future.

F

Cannot give everybody what they want, and that includes salary increases, and that includes the.

F

School system, that's just my firm belief. We got to go back and take a look at that again.

F

There's always next year to try to give people what they want.

F

The um it's hard all over, I'm sorry, it's hard all over in terms of salaries. I get it.

F

But we're all you know: tough economy and it's a tough job market. So the current.

A

Salary increase that we have in place right now for our workforce is what four and a half.

A

It was five and a half yes or 5.55 0.55 on revenue.

D

We talked about impact fees and and how you've had them you haven't had them, but.

D

But it's very restricted. Has there ever been such a thing as an impact fee on commercial building.

D

And is that just as restricted or is that not even legal the state would have to let us do.

D

It or where, where is that we we have not had one? I would imagine that we can. We would for another.

B

Impact fee, we would need state approval to to to do that and, yes, it would be just as restrictive.

B

Impact fees, the very nature of impact fees uh and we're trying to attract commercial.

B

And and it would be different, you know again, we were talking the other day about how you have to.

B

Be able to tie charging you know, uh I think it'd be hard to argue, for example, that you do a school.

B

Impact fee for commercial industrial development- I don't know that you couldn't but yeah.

D

Could you argue it for safety for fire and police.

B

Probably again, going back to another conversation.

B

Where it's aimed at providing to maintain an existing level of service to a greater.

B

Population and one of the problems we have now is our population just isn't growing that fast right.

A

I got one for you.

A

Hypothetical or whatever, but no it's not happening.

A

We're at 4.5 if we were to reduce it down to 4.25. What would the numbers look like so.

A

I would imagine significant.

B

Well, a percent was about was 568 000., so it's going to be, you know hundreds as much as yeah.

A

That's the case regarding you know, disregard.

A

Yeah I apologize, and so what is our current bottom line?.

H

Still 8.95.

H

Well again, if we took some out of p fast pfas, however,.

H

We pronounce that that gets us down to 395.95.

H

And it does get us in in a you know, a better position. Otherwise, and that is you know,.

H

Money that we have at present is the pfas one-time money.

H

So that helps us with our current year, but obviously not, but it's.

A

Challenges: it's masking.

A

The budget I mean it's solving, this year's, but it's masking the overall picture and we.

A

We did that and it was really disturbing when you, especially when you do it for uh past the current.

A

Year, oh, let's put this million this million, this million and all of a sudden everybody's.

A

It looks like you've got zeros across the board and you don't you're and in commissioner I will.

H

Totally concede that if we get to july- and we have you know that 24 million is actualized, I.

H

Have no problem amending the budget to alter that to plug that in with a budget amendment, I have no.

H

Objection to doing that whatsoever, I don't want to know if we want to open the budget to do something.

A

A

um Yeah, I just I mean.

A

Again, going back to a lot of what's said in commissioner karen's has said it, you know as well.

A

We don't want to mask the budget, you know, I mean we gotta be honest and we are, um you know.

A

What's it going to take to do the things that we want to accomplish um what services now, the only.

A

Other approach right now that just that's clear now there may be others and what we.

A

Can dig into it is reducing some of what we've already put on there. We're adding.

A

Revenue in addition to what we already have- and uh there is a significant reluctance to do that.

A

Since we've already touched one of those three that we have the authority to touch.

A

We have the authority to go from 3.03 up to uh 3.2 or make an adjustment into property tax.

A

I I know I know you already know that collectively, I'm just gonna reiterating it.

A

To try to figure out what to come up with a good idea somewhere, but.

H

And so can and can I ask because I guess I I wasn't totally.

H

Understanding of so going back to the record asian text, I know I can't bring it up for emotion, right.

H

Because the motion that I'd propose for what was it, 625 failed but again, if you could do 6 24.

H

But again, if we are doing everything we can to prevent.

H

Any kind of revenue increase on our end from hitting people with certain taxes on their end.

H

Again, it just strikes me that if people are moving into the county.

H

And, as commissioner kyler had mentioned, you know eight hundred dollars or a thousand dollars on.

H

A four hundred fifty five hundred thousand dollar home- if that gets us, where we need to be this year,.

H

And helps us beyond this year and it is not affecting people in their daily lives.

H

Then I I you know again short of looking you're trying to use money that we haven't realized.

H

Yet short of trying to to balance out pfas or taking money away from the sheriff or the school.

H

Department and again short of increasing property taxes and short of increasing income taxes.

H

In at least the way that I'm looking at this right now, I don't see how we get to where we need to.

H

Be short of another 50 cents or 25 cents in in I guess it would have to be 50 cents in recordation.

H

Because, again, that's affecting people who are moving here.

H

But it's not affecting somebody who's, paying their taxes, whether it's property or whether it's income.

H

And I I hate saying that, because you know, even if you take the ideology out of this, everybody knows.

H

Where, where I stand politically, even if you remove all of that and looking at this from a purely.

H

Practical and fiscal perspective right, I still have serious concerns about raising the recreation.

H

Tax at all because it is raising attacks, but if we're confronted with this dilemma, this almost.

H

Intractable dilemma at this point and we are trying to not affect people again in their their.

H

Daily everyday lives: the food that's going on the table, the gas they're putting in the car the the.

H

Money for sports equipment for their kids right then it seems to me that the recreation tax is is.

H

The prudent way to the pragmatic way to pursue this.

D

And- and I agreed with you the last time and uh probably the most pro-growth person.

D

Which makes it seem backwards, but I really think- and I looked at okay- let's say I'm old.

D

But I've bought five properties, so it would have happened to me five times a young, a young carroll.

D

County, my kids, if they want to stay in carroll county, they might start out with a condo to a.

D

Duplex to a single family, so they may play it a couple times, but I don't think it would have.

D

Changed that decision, I've really done. So I don't think it stifles growth and I think when.

D

You look at other counties that have transfer and recreation were you. You said in the middle.

D

Someplace, maybe well, if you look at both we're at the bottom end, not not the lowest but we'd.

B

Be in the word quartile yeah yeah just before, because I want to be clear on that.

A

Recognition and transfer taxes combined compared to where we are, you believe, we're on the bottom.

A

Of that right, not the bottom, but we're being in the would be the bottom group in the very.

A

Bottom quarter: okay! So so if we raise it, a dollar, a dollar and a half we're not even.

D

Going to be in the top half I I would want to look before. I said that, but I don't think so, but.

B

Taylor's going to try and answer that question: okay,.

A

A

It's comfort and acceptance.

D

Yep yeah and I mean- and it comes back to uh the bottom line right now- we're in the hole with.

D

What we did with the sheriff and the schools, which is safety and education, which are.

D

Pretty important and uh both of those we didn't quite give them what they asked for.

D

And I'd hate to see us give them less right of what they asked for but, like I say, there's.

D

Other people that didn't get any of what they asked for, I mean community college. Yes, you know.

B

And I don't want to lose and you know comparing what people ask for to what.

B

They got there's a lot of agencies that didn't ask for anything. I understand right.

D

D

By cutting salary increases, we cut some of them that's right, and that was a cut.

A

And that I mean what we did was.

A

You know a year ago was identifying a significant concern and problem, and we came up with the.

A

Solution and we don't want to go backwards, we can't afford to we're already. You know, probably.

A

At around eight percent, nine percent vacancy rate in the county government workforce give or take. I.

A

Mean ten ten percent I mean and we're still expected to do the services that we're doing.

A

um Nothing regarding our services have changed and unless somebody can, you know, tell us or I.

A

Mean we get good ideas and some interesting ideas about services. um It's just not changing so.

H

And I know a lot of the impact fees before going into next year's budgeting. I think.

H

That is something that we seriously need to reconsider, because if new houses are being.

H

Constructed and they're contributing nothing to the school system. That's problematic.

B

Unless we have an indication of a expectation of a rising school population, we're still left with the.

B

Same problem, though, of we won't be able to justify the use of the impact these we're collecting.

B

Now, if we get comfortable that we are on a course of the ongoing, then we can rethink this, but you.

B

Remember I told you last time you know with the number of building permits we're doing now. You.

B

Know how much we would generate it's, it's not going to be a huge amount of money. It's not it's.

B

Not going to build a new school in south carroll and I think school enrollment, I I think it's on.

D

A trend to go up a little, but three percent a year. Maybe I mean it's not it's not like back.

D

When it was booming it just it's not and, like you said, the whole county's not growing right.

B

I know you get to this point now and commissioner garen said something about: how do we wrap up.

B

It can be very tempting to say: okay, we're not there.

B

Why don't we just take a break? I just want to point out that.

B

Tuesday, tuesday, is it there's nothing going to miraculously change between now and and then and.

B

We're really out of time, then, okay, you know my you get to tell me when you're stopping but right. I.

B

Would encourage you to push on and see if we can't resolve some of this so um yeah? I appreciate that.

F

We were at zero when we started right at one o'clock. So yes, I mean we seem to be.

A

The sentiment on one side is increasing the recreation.

A

A

That would get us to where we need to be.

A

Then there's the other of reducing requests that have been asked of us above and beyond.

A

What's already in the in the budget, I mean again, I know I'm saying it like it's, not new news. This is.

A

Where we're at, I do not personally believe we can reduce services.

A

I think we're at the bare minimum- and I understand sometimes there's a sentiment of one over the.

A

Other, but I I just think we're a bare minimum I've I've crossed the state and we do so much better.

A

Our our law enforcement is the best. In this day I mean we are just so far ahead between our academy.

A

Our training, our deputies, the sheriff I mean we got it right. The facilities may not be the best.

A

But that's going to be changed through capital projects, our education, I mean, I know it's why I.

A

Moved here you know many years ago and it's why many people move here because of our education.

A

Being the best and unfortunately, this attitude of where a training ground for.

A

Others we've come a long ways in retaining um the quality of life. We got some incredible parks.

A

And uh sports programs like manchester wrestling and direct parks. You know rec councils, I mean it's.

A

It's any one of those if we adjust anything on any one of those.

A

It's not that little crumble, it's just there at their bare minimum and by the.

A

Way we just professionalized the fire ems and we have this looming blueprint in front of us.

A

I think the fire ems, I think those positions are, are critical because from day one that's.

A

What I've been listening to, um and fortunately we have a chief that is.

A

Very selfless and dedicated and bringing things together um so it comes down to.

A

What revenue are we willing to put in place to allow these services to continue salary.

A

Decreases don't work in this case. It takes away very little and the risk associated with it is.

A

Extreme for the workforce that we do because we've got to remember again years ago. We.

A

Reduced the workforce by a hundred folks and we didn't change any of the services we did.

A

So um I mean I'm willing to- and this is the first time that we've looked at.

A

Taxes in 10 plus years and recordation in 20 plus years.

A

To sticking to one of the tax streamlines, which is recreation, and if we were to do that and to.

A

Get us where we needed to go. We need to increase the recreation taxes, that's just.

A

Not necessarily plain and simple because nothing simple, but it's pretty plain.

A

So there's got to be a willingness for us to step up and do that.

A

I mean, I know on social media and other things, they'll say: stop raising our taxes.

A

Well, we haven't raised our taxes, you know now the state and others may have done things. We haven't.

A

The value of our homes have gone up. That's us that um thank you.

A

A

L

B

Oh I'm wrong: what's that.

B

um We would we would be eighth in the state if we were to you, make the recreation change and compare.

B

It against other counties with recreation and transfer attacks, so we would be in the top third.

A

Uba we have the eighth largest economy in the state. We got the best school system in the state.

A

That's community college, at the bottom largest population in the state police.

A

Sorry, I think you said it backwards. I did I. I misinterpreted what I was reading.

B

We would be eighth from the bottom, so it is more like I was okay, okay, so, okay, so.

A

We're eighth in population we're eighth in the budget, we're testing and we're still.

D

If you did 6.25, I can sure it's and that would be easy, yeah you're right that would put us at night.

J

Oh nine's from the bottom bottom from the bottom right, so zero being the lowest number. But the.

J

Highest is baltimore city um with the transfer tax and with the recreation that they have.

J

So comparatively they're they're 24th, if you will we're on the lower end okay, so we went to 6.25.

A

That would get us to where we need to go.

I

I already found to the hundred, so we already found the hundred.

A

A

This is the hard part. The easy part was in the beginning.

A

What are your thoughts mike.

F

Again I'll use the same analogy I used earlier we're, I think, we're going back to this well.

F

One too many times if we get to 6.25, I think we might have to look at that next year I mean.

F

Again, we are very concerned about the out years and the unknowns related to blueprint.

F

I think we need to be thinking in those terms for this particular budget.

F

uh I just disagree, philosophically with some of the increases there's always time for that next.

F

Year, if we can do it, but a four percent in salary increase is, is a respectable amount and providing.

F

The school system, with almost 93 percent of what they ask for, is nothing to be ashamed of either.

F

And then we'd be where we need to be.

H

So we're currently four and a half percent salary, no we're at four percent we're at four we're four.

A

And a half, and so commissioner garen you would propose cutting another half percent out of it.

F

That's what I had done initially, uh because I I I could see this coming, I mean we're not gonna.

F

We're running out of a revenue streams, if you will.

F

In my opinion, and and we keep using all these arrows- and I just want to make sure- we've got.

F

Enough we've got a few arrows left for next year because we might need them.

A

But we also, no, I don't I'm not saying everybody agrees. No, I I do disagree in the sense that.

A

Our workforce will be depleted even more and we will not be able to do the services. I mean.

A

We are at 10 percent now uh vacancy rate. We have an aging workforce, we've already identified key.

A

Positions that need to be filled above and beyond we're not going to be able to do the.

A

Service now, fortunately, the snow wasn't here this year, so we didn't have to spend money on that, but.

A

You know, um I think if you look at the workforce and again that's.

A

It's natural to compare and you compare us into the surrounding communities. We are so thin.

A

And we do so much the rec councils and park and recs I mean it's amazing what they do with how.

A

Few people they have, thank goodness for carroll, county and volunteers, and uh I I think if we go.

A

Anything below what we're at right now- um and I just threw the number out earlier, just to see what.

A

The numbers were, I think um we would be taking too much of a risk, and I think if we raised it to 6.25.

A

We're taking a risk in being slapped around by folks, also saying hey: what are you doing to us.

A

But if we're going to do it, we want to do it now.

A

As opposed to going to a cliff and then having to do something so dramatic, um because the.

A

Last time last place we want to do it. Is you know, in year three or four of our you know.

A

Terms of responsibility so we'd be raising it 25 in 20 years.

I

Yeah, just out of curiosity, can you put the 6.25 up? I just want to see what that looks like.

A

But I definitely understand what you're saying mike absolutely and I understand.

D

What you're saying as well- um oh, I just hate to see the employees. I I think.

D

The one percent off was semi-painful, and I just think more than that I just I understand what.

D

You're saying sometimes you have to you know I mean I. I was under the impression that the.

F

You know the the increases last year went a lot towards fixing some of these issues.

F

And some of those concerns with the workforce and those were implemented.

F

I mean I work across a couple: different states and it's it's. This is just the.

F

Situation everywhere, unfortunately, if we can't win in a salary race with montgomery and howard.

F

And frederick and we shouldn't try and then and then when we have that conversation, we.

F

Forget a lot of people work in carroll county that live in pennsylvania for a reason as well.

A

The five to six do and then the other quarter. Five to six was three three.

C

Point one yeah: 3.1 million okay and the other quarter; 775. Yes, so yeah! So.

A

um Okay, so now it's 775 more right. So what's me being a black, what's the bottom line.

A

Right, I wish they could walk through okay, 120.

B

You know the salary increases just a couple of thoughts um in doing what we did. I don't.

B

Think you'd find any of us that would argue that we thought that would fix our problems.

B

It would just make them not as as bad and uh no thought of keeping up with montgomery.

B

County or even keeping up with frederick or or baltimore county, just trying to keep the.

B

Gap from being as big as it was, I understand yeah and I understand completely, but I just.

F

So I just think we're setting ourselves up for some some tax increases. If we're not careful.

F

Well, that's yeah! That's what this is yeah right! I don't want to do that.

F

But you can't re, you don't want to start reducing people's salary but time you asked to see this.

A

What are your thoughts? Well, my thoughts are a couple things, one, I'm not a fan of tax increases.

I

And I'm not a fan of increasing fees, but I'm also not a fan of not funding things. We need to fund.

I

I'm also not a fan of taking money out of our employees pockets after we're trying to keep them.

I

In a better place, it's the best way. I can word that.

I

I could with that thought. I also have to agree with the commissioner garrett a little bit. I do.

I

See where he's coming from, but I don't disagree with that. That being said, I could support that.

I

But- and this is the butt- I have a list of things I want cut and that would be.

I

The only way, I would support that, I won't support that in any other light.

A

What do you want to see cut? I can give you the whole laundry list now or do you want it.

I

Later, oh now, okay, we'll go back through the list. 10 000 from baltimore economic.

A

That okay bear with me.

A

Wasn't there an email? What's it called now, commissioner, it's changed its name. Isn't.

G

That the one it's the gbc yeah, greater baltimore, greater baltimore committee.

I

Sixteen thousand from hardest civil war.

A

How much do we give we give them 30 one I think, yeah yeah. I think it's 31.

I

Okay, 7 500 from magic.

I

7 500 from the tech council.

I

10 000 from historical society.

I

20 000 from union mills.

I

Fifteen thousand from the arts council, which is under reckon parks,.

A

How much do we give them now? What was the total mike.

C

um 40 ., okay, you know what let me. Let me, let me adjust that let's make that 20. yeah, that.

F

Was on my list, I didn't realize I apologize it's. It's buried in the wrecking parks, grants.

I

We want to word it funded through them.

I

See what do we have there for the total? Let me see one two.

I

I believe that's what I've got. Let me see what what's your total there. We.

A

Go, I was going to say.

E

A

I mean open for discussion on us sure, okay,.

A

I can handle all of that. The greater baltimore committee is significant.

A

Because of the work we've been doing over years, and especially our commitment to mako so um taking.

A

Minimum I mean we are, we are at the table with them, which I think it adds a lot of value.

A

I'd like to see that stay full and take more out of this parts of the civil war, you know.

A

um Until we're until proven otherwise their importance, I think, being a regional player.

A

In the greater baltimore committee is much more important than the hardest civil war, I'm not.

A

Taken away from them, it's just I'm not either. So we have what 31 000 was the heart of the civil war.

B

F

See part I mean part of my problem, is I don't? I don't know what we get out of that I mean.

A

The greater baltimore yeah I I mean I so that and several other organizations were a part.

F

Of right, we talk about a lot, I don't know what benefit carroll county has. So I think that needs.

F

To be explained to folks, including myself, so yeah and I so the economic alliance, greater baltimore.

A

Recently, this past year merged with what's called the greater baltimore community. So it's one entity.

A

You have um from cecil county harford, county baltimore, county baltimore city.

A

Anne arundel, howard and carroll county all at the table, there's also additional.

A

Business leaders that are on the board of directors like the head of bge, the head of.

A

Lifebridge and head of university of maryland system, dr permanent, so talking about regional.

A

um You know uh economic issues. Growth in the region are economic developers from each one.

A

Of those entities also have additional meetings to talk about growth and opportunities, um so.

A

It's a it's a collaborative, it's a business. It's a collaboration of you, know, ideas, opportunities for.

A

These those different jurisdictions and it's surrounding baltimore, because what impacts.

A

Baltimore impacts, baltimore county impacts, carroll county. So you know whether it's.

A

Crime and other other things, those are the issues we talked at the table. I've been attending it.

A

For different reasons in my past life, but then also now- and I find it- you know valuable.

A

I don't know if it's a set amount or not. I thought it was.

A

um That we were giving them, but I'm not positive. The answer we got back was they thought we had.

B

Discussion now we have this question on the gbc. Well I mean I'm willing to take risks and make it.

A

Down to 10 and still you're, not gonna, they're, not gonna. Kick me off the table type of thing. um What.

D

What is the total arts council, 41, 000, 41 000 and uh I'm sorry 690? I think I think so. 41 690 dollars.

F

Substantial amount is that the carroll arts council.

F

Do we provide any funding to mcdaniel college yeah, not real comfortable with the arts, council and.

D

um Union mills, I think we shouldn't let be and make that part of the the lease and the moving.

D

Forward discussion, um yeah, um I'm not comfortable with the rest, are fine. I'm not comfortable with.

D

Those still- and I was going to ask about union mills because the 20 000 is the sum total amount.

H

That they're, given every year in cash in cash, we want to talk about paving and yard work and all.

I

That and what those total that's a completely different number yeah, there's also something.

G

Else, in the same vein that I'm just going to mention um um we for many years now, several.

G

Years, 10 maybe have been giving 25 000 a year to shock trauma. The idea, I think, was that um carroll.

G

County residents benefit from that university of maryland system, and um and so it's a you know, a.

G

Benefit to your residents, but that is another thing in this same vein: it's discretionary! It's.

G

Totally discretionary that I thought you may not be aware of that, I should mention right. You know.

A

My my recommendation with that it was put in place, is that we maintain it. It does. I mean there's only.

A

One shock trauma and uh what they do for our community and our county is pretty amazing.

A

You know what it does for us. We again we're on the board we, but that's really what it is.

A

Is good faith gesture buying that 25 000.? So I would like to keep that in place over xiao.

H

Trauma yeah. I have no problem with that. I have no issue with that. Okay, um so the arts council, we.

A

How much you want to take off it? I can't see these are. These are exception of magic in the.

G

Tech council they're all about half, I believe, okay to council and magic, are all that's. What.

G

We okay have given them in the last couple of years, whereas the others are pretty much. Okay,.

G

In half I think that's the correct commission reward more or less right with the exception.

I

The historical society yes yeah, oh, is that the fullness? No, that's that's a completely different.

I

Amount I just pulled 10 off the top of their 60.: okay, oh gotcha, and then you're uh you're, leaving.

A

The chamber alone, I'm gonna, leave them alone for right. Now I think, that's you know, and then, if we.

A

um I didn't under I didn't realize we actually gave the chamber of commerce money, because I.

F

Think the question was asked at one point and the answer was no. We don't provide them.

F

With any funding, but we do you give them about ten thousand dollars a year yeah we sponsor it.

A

um The um that event, that shark fin or shark carol biztown challenger- um and we are members- and we.

B

Are a members yeah we're just totally separate from the tongue? Yes, um you know with the gb.

A

Bies, I'm fine with that. um I do believe we do get something out of it. Just like we do with other.

A

Things, um if I find that we, you know, are being asked for more I'll, bring it to your attention and.

A

We'll go from there, but uh you know yeah. We need to make decisions. So if you make those decisions.

A

And you bring it back up to 6.25 now as recreation.

A

What does that look like.

H

Negative 30. probably need to that would add another 104 without 140 000 revenue.

B

6.25 on recreation, it's her.

A

6.25 is already in there: yes, okay! So what what's the bottom line, then 30. 30.

A

000., okay, okay, if okay, so I apologize just real. Let me go through this.

A

Let's take all of those um adjustments to the non-profits that commissions.

A

Recommended, I said, come one by one, but all of them together is there a motion to accept those changes.

F

I moved to accept those changes. Is there a second second? Okay? So I have a motion. I have a second.

A

Is there any further discussion on this point of order? So if we vote on all of them together, though,.

F

What happens if I I don't know if that's let's see where we get to, I know what you're saying.

A

Yeah, I don't want you guys, go back into them. I want to shut debate down on everything yeah.

B

Until you all vote on a proposed budget right, anything can change yeah. So it doesn't matter how.

A

You got there and I I know where you're going, because if we do pick one out how to say but.

A

Just to get us through the work session, so we've got a motion got a second collectively.

A

Is there any discussion on this all in favor with those changes.

A

No, no so four one! Okay, now going to the recreation adjustment from 6 to 6.25.

A

With commissioner vigliotti not being allowed to say a word at this moment,.

A

Is there a motion to moving from six to six point two: five: okay I'll make that motion.

A

Is there a second second, I got a motion. I got a second all in favor aye against no okay, four one.

A

It allows us to move forward, so I apologize ted. Did you have a.

B

H, actually, it's good that you did that if I'm I'm doing what you told me to do, yeah.

A

Finally, I don't know sorry, I don't know that this is the case, but if the board says okay.

B

Yes, we're good with what we did there. I was just going to say: don't worry about.

B

That thirty thousand dollars- that's basically a rounding error error. We will change something.

B

To make that zero, if this is where we are, and I I would very much like to hear from.

D

Whoever in the county can best speak for the non-profit changes we made on any impacts, we'll.

D

See because of what we made oh they're, each going to have their own arguments.

B

I I don't know: if there's anybody, that's one person to speak for them a couple different people.

A

And I bet you the emails we're going to be getting. I don't know if those people are watching. Oh.

A

I bet you they're getting the word I'll, ask a question I'll ask jack lyburn and.

G

Jeff daggetts, so those would be the two directors that would be mostly.

G

Coordinating with those organizations well isn't also linda on the civil war thing she is, although.

G

It's more um tourism is the is sort of the lead, but the planning's also uh involved. Yes,.

D

And I apologize, I have to meet an accountant assuming she's. Still there.

H

Yeah, I think we're wrapped up well, okay, let's understood I and I'm not cutting.

A

You off, I just want comes out appropriately. We are scheduled to meet right now, tuesday, at 1 pm.

A

So take a look at this. If I can ask deb, if you can send us changes that.

A

Have been made so we have it over the weekend. Allow us to look at it.

A

As opposed to just on tuesday at one I, I would appreciate that.

A

And is there any other guidance from you at this time ted? If there's anything, anybody has in their.

B

Mind that would be a substantial change to this is, if you, the sooner you can tell us, so we can be.

B

Ready, the the better you know, if we get into other discussions on tuesday, like we we did today, then I.

B

Start to get worried about getting it done, you get worried, yeah, yeah, okay, anything anything from the.

A

Back bench once again, thank you all for all the work you're doing. Thank you. Yes, thank you. Thank.

I

You very much I need a motion to adjourn so move. Second, I got motion guys. Second, all in favor, aye.