Cave Creek, Arizona 2022 Town Council Meetings, 21 Nov 2022

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From YouTube: 21 Nov 2022 Regular Cave Creek Town Council Meeting

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Associated documents: https://cavecreek.civicweb.net/filepro/documents/52808/

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Creek Creek Arizona Monday, November, 21st 2022.

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Theresa roll please.

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Council member Maguire present councilman Aquino here: councilmember Morris president councilmember Ray here, council member Silva here vice mayor Smith, here mayor Bunch,.

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Here, I'm, all president accounted for in one form or another. An executive session will be held. Purpose accounts, discussion, consultation direction to the legal advice from the town attorney for Senator lunar by Statute, 38-431.03 Prince, a prince 3 and Prince Four. Regarding the Desert Hills standpipe and number two is Council discussion, evaluation, Town manager, performance percent of Arizona, eye statute, 38-431.03 Prince, a and parents one. uh Do we have a motion to move into e session so move? Second, all those in favor all right, we'll be back folks.

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All right, everyone welcome to the regular Town council meeting town of Cave Creek Arizona Monday November, 21st 2022.

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um Let's see here, I'm going to pick on one of these fellas to lead us in the pledge, let's see which one um the Elder ones.

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Bob Forrest, would you lead us in the Pledge of Allegiance? Please thank you. Congratulations.

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One nation under God, indivisible.

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With liberty and justice for all.

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Right I'm gonna take some stuff out of order here, all right off the bat, um because I can it's my last option to do that, we're going to go to presentations, uh Town manager? Would you like to.

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uh Mr Mayor mayor minister of council and the public I'd just like to recognize Mike Baxley. He was leaving the town for a wonderful opportunity um after 17 years when he got here 17 years ago. I think I'd already been here.

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Seven years but I've seen a lot of changes for the good and I've seen the department grow and and a lot of uh new things implemented. I'd just like to take an opportunity publicly to thank Mike for 17 years serving the community and he was wonderful to work with and we'll miss him.

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F

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The show turns to you, you turn to me I'm turning.

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To you and what you.

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Would like me to do, there's no script or anything up here, so I just don't have to Wing this. You know I mean there's some people up here who uh are not going to be here for the next meeting. Actually they could be, but they'd be sitting out there with y'all, uh which is um a little bit different uh they've been uh serving the community for for quite a few years.

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uh You know some, some people have, you know like taken a taking a term off and then come back and uh because of the uh the way and I there's some things sitting here, I'm not sure what this is about, but we have a gentleman here: wow council, member 2016-2018, vice mayor from 2018 uh 2022.. Can anybody guess who that might be? It says in grateful appreciation for your outstanding leadership and dedication from Cave Creek Arizona to Mr vice mayor David, Smith.

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We're going to do pictures tonight and I wore my best shirt.

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Goodness I got another one sitting here, interesting.

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Vice mayor 2016 to 2018, he was my wingman on my first term as mayor and uh I did a pretty darn good job of it. He was even following me down a path that he shouldn't have followed me down sometimes, but it worked out anyway. You.

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Always follow the Squadron leaders.

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Yeah then, he took two years off due to the uh the voters of the town of Cave Creek and then the voters of the town of Cave Creek, blessed him with a uh another one.

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So vice mayor from 2016, 2018 council member 2020 to 2022 and grateful appreciation for your outstanding leadership and dedication uh presented to former vice.

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Mayor Ronson.

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Ought to come in front of the logo.

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Then there's one more guy who's not going to be here because he wasn't on there ballot this time around. Let's see here presented to Reg monochino uh uh grateful appreciation for your outstanding leadership. Ben now and in addition to uh serving on Council Reg, has been on the uh on the Planning Commission. He has uh been a board member at the uh at the Museum board member for a.

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Land trust, you know so he's he's, got his his fingers in his nose and a bunch of stuff in town, but we'll go ahead and and give him a plaque anyway.

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Oh, that concludes the presentations for this evening, and now it's back to public announcements. See these fellows got plaques. So I've got a couple of plaques too I got got one from the league of cities and towns for not being real, smart and being here a long time. Mike's been here for 17 years. Is that right? You you took over after I was after I was on Council I've actually been on Council for 17 and a half years I've seen an awful lot of stuff happening that to me at Cave Creek.

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um This is my last meeting where I'll be sitting in the middle seat. uh Councilman Morris, mayor, elect Morris will be sitting in the middle seat and God only knows where they're going to put me but hope it's somewhere, where I still have a voice and because it's rather liberating because being being elected to council uh uh and knowing that I'm, never gonna run again, because I really have had about all I can stand and all I can stand has to do with I'm trying to be delicate and indelicate.

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At the same time, here people who really don't understand what's going on I've, got a t-shirt almost worn tonight that t-shirt says Cave, Creek home of the factually challenged and emotionally charged. What we have is a lot of people in this town who don't understand government the way it works. They have no idea that we're we are. They think that we're a pure democracy, we're four people up here, can just decide anything in anybody's property or whatever. That's not the way it works. The way it works is we're constitutional republic.

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We have laws and rules that we have to follow and if you don't understand those laws and rules, it's really easy to to um convince people that their emotions are the right way to go, and, quite frankly, I've I've had a lot of it. I refuse to be quiet from now on, you're going to hear a lot more from me. You have people who um who are coming onto Council, who maybe don't get it um and I'm hoping that we can educate those folks and they'll understand exactly the way things are supposed to be.

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Heaven said that count Town manager. It's your turn.

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uh Mayor members of the council, I just want to um remind everyone that hidden in the Hills is this weekend again: Friday Saturday Sunday at 10, A.M and I wish everyone a Happy, Thanksgiving holiday and safe holiday. Town Hall will be closed and we actually close early on Wednesday to allow folks to get to their families to start their celebration. So I think that's all I have for tonight.

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Does that mean you're turning it back over to me, I'm going to run my last meeting here? Well, let's hope I do a good job. What do you think all right consent, agenda approval, April, 26, 2022, special Town, Council budget meeting minutes approval of September 12 2022, special Town, Council session minutes and number three cancellation is January 3rd 2023, regular Town council meeting? Do we have a motion.

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All those in favor signify by saying aye.

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Did I miss call the public I? Did we got anything.

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uh Council member montequino had wanted to see a few.

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You we have none.

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Sorry about that Reg I- uh that was at the top of the thing up and I blamed these progressive lenses many times over things that I don't quite see in there. That was supposed to be General agenda. Item number one: Council discussion: approval of resolution, r, 2022-23, a resolution, the Marion County Council town of Cave, Creek, Maricopa, County, Arizona, approving the town of Cave, Creek Emergency, Operations plan EOP down Marshall.

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Thank you mayor vice mayor members of council uh before I forget Happy Thanksgiving to all of you.

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Would you have a tonight before you is um the new, updated, Emergency Operations plan, as well as a result of the dramatic changes that have been made to the town's Emergency Services? The prior version of the Emergency Operations plan for the town of Cave Creek has been reviewed, revised and updated.

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Significant updates include the addition of the national Incident Management system's best practices, the inclusion of the community risk reduction director, as well as references to the town's inclusion in the regional, automatic Aid and emergency response system, an integration of the Cave Creek, Daisy, Mountain emergency response services.

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These actions will meet a previously established goal of the Town Council resolution number r 2021-06.

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That would take steps necessary to officially initiate a process that would allow the town of Cave Creek to come. Participate. Excuse me to become a participant in the regional automatic, Aid System. The larger goal is to establish the processes necessary to improve the important Town sponsored emergency services for the town's residents, visitors and businesses. This document action will help to confirm the commitment that has been made to address the current and future emergency services for the town of Cave Creek.

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Question Council.

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Had a question on um page 186, section 9., which the Marshall has uh answered. Thank you Marshall.

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All right, um let's see, uh there's public comment on that one: nope, no public comments; okay, we're going to come back to counseling if it's okay, I'd like to make the motion on this one there's a particular reason: uh motion to approve resolution: r, 2022-23, a resolution, the mayor and Town Council, the town of Cave Creek, Maricopa, County, Arizona, approving the town of Cave, Creek, Emergency, Operations plan, Prince, EOP, second, wait a second and and what I want to one reason: I'm I'm really interested in doing this is because when we had the East, Desert and Ocotillo fires in the aftermath of that there were people running around town screaming that we had no plan, we had a plan.

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The plan had been voted on had been approved, but it's like anything in a battle when the first cannon shots fired. The plan goes down the tubes. Well, the only problem we had was was uh Communication in any in future emergencies. Heaven forbid that we have any I'm sure that we'll do a much better job of that. uh All those in favor of the motion to signify by saying aye.

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Right eyes clearly haven't motion carry 7-0. Thank you, Marshall. Thank you. Americans uh number. Two Council discussion approval first reading of ordinance, 2022-08 North to the mayor and Council Council of the town of Cave Creek Maricopa County Arizona men in the official town of Cape Creek, is only met by changing the underlying zone of two parcels. Totaling approximately 3.6 Acres parcels, 211-0, 47-087a and 211-47-088a described in exhibit one and depicting exhibit two from the desert: rural residential dr89 Zone to commercial buffer zone. Cb Zone uh placed on the oh, my goodness, they're.

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Both there who's going to talk to us.

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uh Mr Mayor I'll be the one speaking this evening. I'll try my best to beat your uh presentation right there, um I don't know if I can speak as fast, but I'll do my best, but uh also Happy Thanksgiving to uh you Marin vice mayor and members of the of the council. So uh staff is here this evening to bring forward to council consideration of case number z-22-04 Kimberly horn zone change, request first reading of ordinance 0 to 2022-08.

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His own change request is to change the underlying zoning and Amanda town of Cave Creek zoning map for parcels.

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211-47-088A and 211-47-087a from dr-89 to commercial buffer, the parcels within the specific area plan and consists of a commercial land use designation per the 2021 General plan. The properties are located in one parts of the north of Carefree Highway from 51st Street to 52nd from 51st Street apologize to uh 53rd Street um I apologize, 52nd Street. The applicant has not submitted a site plan review application as they intend to ask for consideration to amend the zoning map in advance of finalizing the site design, including preparation of grading and drainage plans.

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The property would still require pre-application conference for all departments prior to submit of a site plan. Review application for additional scrutinies given to the project and development criteria are reviewed for compliance with Town codes, ordinances and guidelines. At the Planning Commission meeting held on October 20th 2022, the town of Cave Creek Planning Commission voted 5-0 to recommend approval of zone change application kc-22-04 case number z-22-04 conforms with the requirements outlined in the zone, change application and is consistent with the general plan and Carefree Highway specific area plan.

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This case is solely free zone change requests and whether the proposed commercial buffer zone is appropriate for this location. Mr Mayor at this moment are there any questions for staff. If not, the applicant is here to answer any questions.

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Former vice mayor, Sova.

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uh I wonder if you could clarify just one point for me: I think in the verbiage part of our package. It said there would be one breast and Ingress one on 51st Street, one on 52nd in the conceptual site plan we have in our package, I believe it shows what appears to be where I can see two on 50 second and one on 51st, plus the major one on Carefree Highway. Would you comment on that? Please.

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uh Mayor Bunch, former Vice versova, um the as as you're aware, is council's aware. The specific area plan was amended uh to allow more than one point of Ingress and egress off of a north-south street right, um provided they meet a certain distance from Center Line of 125 feet, which they show um if, if that was in The Narrative, that staff presented, that's that's a typo in our part, but it's they show two points of Ingress in Europe. They they could only have one um or they could show two.

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Which and I realize it's a conceptual plan right your subject to change it.

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Right: okay, we look at the conceptual plan for compliance with the regulations contained within the sap just to make sure good. Thank.

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You, if that clears it up.

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Councilman monokino.

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Thank you mayor. A question for Council in the action item request the um it is suggested and I'll quote um if it is determined that this property is not appropriate for a commercial buffer zoning designation Council may deny the case the.

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Word appropriate, that's um I, don't know, I think you can drive a truck through that one. Well.

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That's because you're acting legislatively and you're allowed to drive a truck through it. So so the question is: do you wish to turn it down? That gives you right now when you're acting legislatively this is when you have the most discretion, you can decide what's appropriate as long as you don't quote shock the conscience, that's another case law, that's not the case.

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So my point is: if you can make a decision that you can explain and justify, that's all a court will ask assuming the decision is not based on self-interest, conflict of interest or some sort of protected, Civil Right But as appropriate that that's legislative you get to decide as Council.

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If you wish to approve the zoning now, once you go beyond that to site plan, it's no longer legislative and appropriate, is driven by the criteria set forth in your code and we're going to talk about that later concerning whether the commission should be involved, but you have every right, as an elected official sitting right there, acting legislatively to decide what's appropriate.

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Elect Morris, so that this is, uh are we getting unrestricted commercial buffer right after as a result of this, or is this restricted to? In what way is this restricted to what we see in this preliminary site plan, so.

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The uh commercial buffer zone in this specific plan area, the Carefree Highway plan- has several restrictions that are more restrictive than the overall bulk regulations for commercial buffer. They have a reduced height, they have reduced lot coverage. uh There are several factors that limit development in this particular area of town per the specific area plan, foreign.

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uh Recall us repairing that, after a slight failure in the history of the sap yeah in Nelson Council, there is public comment on this. One, no comments we have and we're back to council for motion. Please anybody can do that I'm, not going to jump all over this.

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One I'll do that if I may, please motion to approve first reading of ordinance, uh 0 2 0, 2 2-08, an ordinance of the mayor and Council of the town of Cave Creek Maricopa County Arizona, amending the town of Cave Creek zoning map by changing the underlying zone of two Parcels totaling, approximately 3.6 Acres Parcels, two one, one hyphen 47 hyphen, zero, eight, seven a and two on one hyphen 47 hyphen, zero.

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Eight eight, a described in exhibit one and depicted in exhibit two from a desert: rural residential in paren dr-89, on paren Zone to a commercial buffer, paren CB on paren Zone.

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We have emotions, I, think uh former vice mayor Silva, you had the motion comments.

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I believe it's appropriate. It falls in line with.

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What is on the north side of Carefree, Highway and uh I believe it'll uh be a good Revenue producing uh entity or entities. I should say, uh contribute the uh to our Coffer that three percent sales tax so I'm very much supportive of it.

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Councilman Maguire, you had the second.

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Yes, this goes back to important work done by Luke's predecessor, Ian cordwell, uh who negotiated this with the citizens. It was work well done.

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In the ultimate Council.

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Man monokino, do we know what use will be made their.

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At this moment,.

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uh Council member monikino at this moment no.

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We do not, however, if you read the ordinance and the rules for for the for the specific area plan now, as opposed to what they were they'll be beneficial in some form or another.

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Okay, yeah all those in favor signify by saying aye.

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Aye aye opposed.

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Eyes clearly haven't motion to carry 7-0 agenda.

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Rolling down three council's cash approved we're first reading of ordinance, 2022-05 notice of the mayor and Council town of Cave Creek Maricopa County Arizona, mending the town of Cape Creek zoning ordinance, chapter 12, entitled site plan, section, 12.2, entitled procedures, subsection, a number seven and eight and section 12.7 entitled amendments and inspiration, subsections d and e establishing an effective date and providing for repeal and severability planning director Mr councilman.

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Yes, thank you, mayor members of council I'm, going to invite the chairman, Bob Boris and vice chairman Steve breckner, to sit at the staff table because really this this uh came about from several months ago, reviewing a site plan case and essentially being asked. Why are we? Why are we looking at these? uh If, if there's really no discretion beyond what the criteria lists and it's allowed use within a given zone? So what these cases are? There's three cases total as advertised and noticed represent sex amendments to three different chapters of the zoning ordinance.

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As stated several months ago, the chairman of the Planning Commission asked staff to research how site plan applications for commercial projects are administered in other jurisdictions, within Arizona staff prepared and presented information related to the site plan review process in September at that meeting in September, the Planning Commission directed staff to prepare draft text. Amendments for the Planning Commission to consider at their meeting in October staff and legal counsel have vetted, uh have vetted the proposed amendments and brought those to the Planning Commission in October.

N

It was at that meeting that the Planning Commission recommended approval of the text, amendments which, if adopted by the Town Council, would remove the Planning Commission from the review of the site plan cases. In addition to the text amendments brought forward this evening for consideration of a first reading, the Planning Commission also recommended changing the name of the commercial buffer zoning District to intermediate commercial. That's that's part of the third ordinance that you'll see I'm kind of presenting these all together.

N

As one case, um two of the text amendments are presented with options those are found in exhibit C1 and C3, which are Pages, 96 and 113 of your packets. What those options mean is that the Town Council can choose to remove the Planning Commission from its review of site plans, only thereby keeping Town Council review or choose to allow cycling for interview for compliance with the town code, building code, zoning ordinance and Technical design guidelines and subsequently approved solely by staff or an administrative manner.

N

So, in addition to the meeting minutes from the Planning Commission meetings held September, 15th and October 20th included in the packet, um as stated I I. Also ask that the chairman and vice chairman, be here in attendance to present the rationale for the proposed text. Amendments as presented I'd be happy to answer any questions or turn it directly over to the gentleman sitting to my right.

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Before we get too far, let me tell you, I, think you've recovered quite well from the Saturday evening debacle at uh Sun, Devil Stadium.

N

It's nothing compared to last Thursday.

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I, just one planning directory you'd mentioned Pages 102 and 96.

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But you didn't mention 102.. Where there's is that not to be uh considered? That's where you had option one option, two.

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It might, it might be just a restatement, so there are several you've got so exhibit C1, which is Page. 96 is chapter 12, showing all the all of the text. Okay,.

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102 is the ordinance itself. Okay, so.

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It's it's a repeat, then correct: okay, yeah! Thank you.

J

Vice mayor, uh can you uh tell us why we were given two options: it's either a yes or a no that's been presented to us. uh Didn't the Planning Commission have a recommendation versus one or two I kind of think. It's it's it's along the lines of uh do away with site plans, but why did you give us two options.

N

So there's a very good question: I'm glad you asked so the uh the reason that Council has presented two options is effectively. One option would remove Planning, Commission and Town Council from the site plan review process. The second option would only review the Planning Commission from site plan review process and still require Town Council to give a decision on a site plan.

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The the Planning Commission was expressly in their motion, uh read the motion and said to remove the requirement for site plan review by the Planning Commission. They didn't want the plan and they can speak for themselves, but the Planning Commission didn't want to say. Not only do we not want to do it, but we think the council shouldn't do it either? It's it's your choice. Ultimately, very.

J

Very wise, on their part.

N

um And you actually have more than two options: you've got a third option. You can keep it the way it is or a fourth option. You can rewrite it to. However, you'd like to see it all.

J

Right, it's not tell me just one thing, and this is just for my purposes. It has nothing to do with how about on this or anything. uh The uh meeting that took place on uh the seventh or not the 17th uh last Thursday, that was not a site plan review right. No.

N

No, it was not.

J

Okay, I just wanted to make that clear, because I have a strong desire that the community get to have plenty of opportunity to have their input and since they had plenty of opportunity at that time, and it's going to continue in that direction, I think that's. That's a great idea.

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Thank you Luke uh as a good segue to that question.

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um How would you respond to a comment by a member of the community who thinks that this does limit their ability to provide input or opinions on a zoning application, and also the fact that this may burden you in some way, as the administrator now responsible for doing all the site plan, work and oversight.

N

um Council, member Roy, actually we we already incur the burden. um The staff memo that I put together for these cases outlines everything that staff does and it's actually more work to take it to the Planning Commission than take it to the Town Council. It's it's more agendas. It's more preparation, it's more staff time to do that.

N

As far as limiting uh public comment, I and I I, don't want to steal really what um what the members of commission that are here this evening to present, um but with site plans we're talking about uses that are allowed in a Zone um and then the criteria set forth in the council. Those can't be those can't be stepped back. You can't give the council can't give administrative relief on a height limitation or something else.

N

Our ordinances are the ordinances they're the requirements so sometimes having Stat or having the public be able to comment on site plans when there really isn't any variation that can be done or sought is um I, don't think is necessarily a true statement.

F

So you don't think that the perception of you as the planning director working in isolation on the site plans, is credible. No.

N

No, it's a site plan isn't just touched by the planning department or its staff it. It really is reviewed by the town engineer the utilities director, the billing official. Everybody is involved in the review of those to make sure compliance like I stated with the town codes, the utility requirements, uh building codes so and.

F

That answer is one of my concerns, because I was I'm a little concerned that if it is all up to you what happens when you're not here, do you have backup who would be able to effectuate site plan reviews? Yes, absolutely, okay. Thank you.

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I guess we're ready to move on. You go sit down, Mr.

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Councilman Mr: oh wait.

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Wait wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, I.

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One maybe you're not ready to move on I.

F

I think- and you probably have some things to say, but at some point and I guess now is as good as any. We need to recognize Mr Boris because he's also retiring from the plan commission and he.

A

No we're not going to let him.

F

He has been the chairman for multiple years, I'm, not sure exactly how many five, and that deserves a round of applause as well.

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F

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Requires Mental, Health foreign.

F

Thank you for your service.

R

Thank you mayor vice mayor member of councils. The reason that we're here tonight is to request remove uh to remove the site plan review from the Planning Commission responsibilities.

R

um For the record, my name is Bob Voris I'm, chairman of the Planning Commission to my right, is vice chairman, Steve breckner.

R

The impetus for this request is based on in the acknowledgment that site plan reviews and Cave Creek are administrative, offering no possibility for exercising discretion on the part of the Planning Commission. With respect to site plan requirements. The Planning Commission cannot increase, decrease or set aside. What is required for compliance with various codes, ordinances and Technical guidelines governing this phase of the entitlement process for a piece of property site plan.

R

Reviews by the Planning Commission are Superfluous exercise offering nothing of value to the property entitlement process, because the Planning Commission is precluded from any manner of discretion in the matter is therefore, a waste of town resources, including volunteer planning, Commissioners time fiscal costs for staff, time and effort in Staffing public hearings and producing documents for each planning commissioner's use in reviewing each site plan and producing the verbatim Planning Commission public hearing minutes and keeping the lights on and maintaining the meeting facility since further, since there is no discretion Allowed by the Planning, Commission or individual Commissioners.

R

In the site plan review, the process presents an unnecessary opportunity for individual Commissioners, however, well or ill intention to inject personal preference, which is a discretionary act and to process thereby creating a potential for legal and financial Jeopardy for themselves by acting outside the scope of their Authority and the town. If the Town Council accepts the inappropriate personal preference as a condition of approval for the site plan, it should be noted that the Town Council is subject to the same discretionary constraints as the Planning Commission director Kaufman cited past examples of materials.

R

He was asked to provide by the chairman of discretionary acts on the part of town council members during site plan review that resulted in negative legal and fiscal consequences to the town to prepare for this request. Director kossman was requested by the Planning Commission to prepare three things for the planning department planning commission's consideration: one research, Cave Creek codes, ordinances guidelines Etc to determine what would have to be amended if we were to pursue this action and provide code amendments to achieve moving site plan review from Planning Commission responsibilities.

R

The amendments were agendized for Planning Commission meeting October 20th 2022. The amendments were discussed and voted upon case number a-22-01 was passed, Vice chairman breckner, Commissioners, Miller and Driscoll, and chairman Flores voted yes, Mr Anderson stated I'm not prepared and voted. No.

R

Commissioner elkobo was absent case number 822-02 was passed with the same result as the previous case for yes, one no item two or the next item requested of Luke research, Arizona, revised statutes or ars's to identify any that would have an impact on a decision to remove the site plan review from Planning Commission responsibilities.

R

Ars does not preclude the requested action item number three asked of Luke research. How, similarly situated Arizona municipalities manage site plan reviews? Additionally, a legal analysis was requested from the town attorney Mr Sims for the course of action contemplated and one of the questions to Mr Sims relative to question number three.

R

Above our other municipalities handling site plan reviews, the question was: do Municipal do Municipal jurisdictions vary in the requirements for site plan reviews parenthetically also referred to as development review, usually due to discretionary components such as architecture, form-based, zoning codes or other Aesthetics, while the Cave Creek zoning ordinance does not allow for discretion or variation.

R

Rather, the ordinance employs maximum and or minimum bulk regulations to obtain desired development.

R

Mr Sims response quote yes, correct municipalities vary in their development review and site plan review process, for example, some established General criteria to consider, as you suggest, such as architecture, form-based, zoning codes or other Aesthetics chapter 12, section 12.5. The town zoning ordinance, however, establishes explicit objective criteria for site plan approvals. Close quote under Section 12.5. The language is clear. This is again a quote. If the criteria are met, the commission must recommend approval. There are 11 criteria listed in the zoning ordinance associated with site plan review.

R

The criteria for site plan review are all required to be met through the application of the development standards found in various chapters of the zoning ordinance and Technical design guidelines, specifically chapter 3 commercial zones, chapter 8, Landscaping, chapter 9, signage, technical design, guideline number, one: grading and drainage, technical design, number two Transportation or technical design guidelines, number five trails for site plan review. The commission's discretion is limited to specific objective criteria. Additional criteria and obligations cannot be imposed. Close quote.

R

The last statement by Mr Sims is the key to granting the planning commission's recommendation to remove site plan review from Planning Commission responsibility. The way site plans are presented to the Planning Commission for review. A staff report follows introduction by the chairman of the agenda site plan review case in the staff report. The staff warns that the submitted site plan complies with all applicable requirements as a practical matter. If the site plan did not comply, the site plan would not have been submitted to the Planning Commission for review.

R

Further Mr Sims analysis in response to three other questions found no reason that would preclude the Planning Commission to take this request and recommendation to the Town Council summarize the three other questions are number one. Does the site plan review require a public hearing per Arizona, revised statutes, Mr Sims response? No number two: does the Planning Commission have the authority to initiate recommendations, to revise and amend the zoning ordinance Mr Sims response?

R

Yes, number three: does the town code specifically list site plan as a formal duty or responsibility of the Planning Commission Mr Sims response, no Mr Sims complete responses are found in the commission's. Excuse me the council's packet.

R

If the request is rejected by the Town Council, we have a commissioner commissioner Anderson, who had several points that he brought forth during our discussions and prior to our vote on the two items.

R

Commissioner Anderson's was the loan to Center in both cases and one of his concerns, centered on quote elimination of site plan reviews by the Planning Commission denies the town of a significant forum for public discussion and communication kind of goes to what you were talking about. The response to that is, as the Planning Commission has no discretion to consider any change in the requirements. Any public input we receive that would suggests changes cannot be acted upon and therefore would not change anything.

R

The property at the point of site plan review, has already passed things that the Planning Commission has uh discretion on, and that would be General plan last land use criteria and the correct zoning category, um and with this it was mentioned earlier that uh the one of the cases that we looked at in our last meeting on the 17th dealt with a zone change and we consisted that zone change to create a more harmonious transition from The General commercial on the principal arterials back toward the established residential locations.

R

Mr Anderson also asserts that the site plan review would serve the purpose of providing the council with important information to prepare the council members to make an informed vote on the matter again. Our response again, the council is subject to the same discretionary constraints: Planning Commission. If the site plan complies as warranted by staff, the council is obliged to accept the uh the application.

R

uh With that I'll uh answer any questions you might have.

A

Council councilman.

F

Murray um Mr Morris has there ever been a time when the planning or Steve, uh when the Planning Commission has had an objection to the site plan for um various reasons that could be held up well.

R

That's part of the reason I that I mentioned that when this occurs it's inappropriate because the Planning Commission has no discretion to set aside any of the requirements that are in in our governing documents. So when that happens- and it has happened- this happened recently. If that personal preference had been included as a condition of approval.

R

As a recommendation to the Town Council and the Town Council had acted on that I, don't believe there would have been any Jeopardy for the Planning Commission, because we're a recommending body, but certainly there would be legal consequences for the council and for the town. Should the town attempt to impose requirements to go beyond what is required in the code. Mr.

F

S

Know, I think the simple. The simple answer here is we're not dealing with rezoning a property or anything discretionary.

S

The properties that come to us are already zoned in a particular manner or in a particular Zone and they're entitled to certain uses. If that owner selects one of those uses and complies with all of our bulk regulations, we are in no position to deny that if we were to, we would then subject ourselves to a legal Claim by that property owner for denying them their property rights.

S

So this is a limited situation where all their rights are already set in place, they're complying with all of our codes once they do that we have zero discretion.

S

If we try to impose some discretion and create additional requirements, we now subject ourselves to a clean if we turn it down, we subject ourselves to a claim so because of this, and because in in the the one of the issues that I confronted is when we have these in a public forum, it it almost um lends itself to the public thinking that they have some discretion to decide what a property owner chooses to do with their property.

S

What type of business that they're going to put on when we have no discretion, and that only causes more angst and strife within the community when we have zero discretion and if we try to assert discretion, we now subject ourselves to a claim. So not only is this a waste of your time because you're under the same limitations that we are as a Planning Commission, you can't turn it down if they're in compliance they're in compliance, you do so we do. We turn it down on our own peril.

S

So it's a waste of your time, our time staff, time costs for the town. um I don't want to spend my time as a commissioner on something like that. I'd rather spend it on something productive. So because of all the end, beyond that, it's delaying everything for the applicant for the property owner um doesn't put anything necessarily more on the staff that reviews the cycling, because they're doing all that before it even comes to us and warranting, as chairman Horace indicated that it's in compliance once it's there, it's essentially a representative.

F

So in five years that you've been on the plan commission, as the chairman and for five years or just as a member and chairman for five years, just to clarify.

R

Nine years, oh.

F

Nine years yeah have you ever come across an oversight or an error, or um any reason that the staff needs to go back and review the site plan again so has the staff ever had an error that needed to be corrected.

R

um Not of any substance that I can recall, um you know they're human, and so they would certainly uh the possibility certainly exists for that to happen.

R

um I don't know if they have an Amer uh Omission, an errors clause or not, but certainly one that they probably should have in case. They do make an error, but there's no guarantee that that we would catch it either.

F

And I guess my point is: is this last step that the plan commission takes a look at the site review or the council is? Are we going to eliminate a checks and balance? No.

S

No, the reason: why is we're not going to catch it, we're relying on staff they're the trained experts that are looking at those plans and confirming that the site plan meets all of our codes and ordinances I'm, not the town, engineer, I'm, not an architect. We are not doing that you're, not doing that as a counsel, you're not going to catch something and say wait, you know this. uh Don't we require one more treat is that this is not going to happen.

S

We we rely on our experts at the Town, the building department staff, to to do all these checks and balances to ensure that our codes and ordinances are complied with. It's not going to happen. We we accept that warrant and we move forward with it. We have to.

R

Okay and and as Vice chairman mentioned, the the Planning Commission or the planning staff, not the only people that see this.

B

T

Town engineer, who.

R

Goes to the building uh official Fire official.

F

Except that that the planning director now is also going to be the building professional as well. So that's one less step that that will go through and.

R

Each of each no am.

F

I wrong on that somebody could correct me: there will be a building official. The building official will not be the director there.

D

Will be a building.

F

Officials all right, very good, I'm. Sorry, if I interrupted you.

R

Well, that's all right! uh So there are a number of departments in the town that are that have responsibility. They are paid uh professional, certified degree experienced uh and there's no reason to expect that uh they wouldn't produce a product that uh is that meets their requirements and uh I would imagine that, if that, if it did happen- and it happened on a routine basis- that there probably would be a change but that to my knowledge, to answer your question- I, don't recall that ever happened before you might miss.

R

You know, there's a certain percentage that has to be landscape. They might miss something like that. But that's not substantive I mean it's not going to kill the project and it might be caught later.

N

I'll come clean, um chairman Boris did catch uh the numbers for the McDonald's lot. Coverage on one sheet were not the same as they were on another sheet and I didn't catch that there was an air between the two and uh he did and called me like two weeks before the meeting and said you need to get them in check. So I did miss that one just to clear your conscience.

F

I'm done, thank you.

S

But I would say that anything involving discretion would remain with the Planning Commission we're only seeking to remove something in which we have zero.

R

Discretion and those are the major things General plan amendments, zoning amendments special use permits. Those are the those are the things that we should have Commit uh discretion on and as we demonstrated on the 17th, we do use that discretion if we can tie it to some improvement to the project, to the benefit, to the town benefit to the neighborhood and as I say, that's what we did. Okay.

A

Former Vice marisova.

G

Thank you mayor I'd, just like to say that during my four years on the Council of two years on the planned Commission having had a background in plants and plans and Engineering construction, I think you all will agree. I have asked have asked a numerous amount of questions. Almost too many, sometimes I've peeled the onion quite well.

G

You don't all have to agree, and in those six years, I be at the building official or the planning official or any other director official in the town has been right on top of it and had an answer and satisfied. Everything 100 percent there's not been one instance, not one question that I've asked in those six years that they didn't already have it well put to bed understood completed. So my compliments to the town staff, Mr, kautzman and others, because the job well done and I'm sure they'll keep that up. I.

R

Think the exposure as I mentioned and as I asked Luke, to provide examples of where uh personal preferences had been used to approve a site plan and in virtually every case and Luke, you can respond to this in virtually every case came back or to uh you know, haunt The Town, it costs money, it costs legal fees and that to me, that's where the exposure is- and this is what this is.

R

One thing that we are Steve and I are very uh acutely aware of- is to not allow this to happen at the Planning Commission level. So when we do hear personal preferences trying to be interject interjected on site plans to try to cut it off, get it off to pass. So it doesn't proceed any further. Yeah.

N

Page page 98 of your packet mayor um has examples of of site plan review gone awry, in my estimation, with the case numbers and what the circumstances were um and and what transpired as a result of processing those cases. So uh I I chose four cases um they're having administered three of them and just hearing the lore uh from one from 1997 I was still in high school. Unfortunately, so you.

B

F

N

In that one on me.

F

He was still in high school, but.

N

Yeah, so that just a just an example of um what the limitations are.

A

Mayor elect Morris.

E

I guess there's just absolutely no question, that's more efficient I mean the efficiency is just overwhelming. Why? Why do something? When you know it's.

F

A waste of time, but.

E

There is one thing that it has done and it does especially commercial buffer every time, I see a commercial buffer and if it's renamed to intermediate buffer I'm sure it will continue, is they're very controversial.

E

um One thing it does signal is: if there are problems with the underlying code, those uses, the other things that are in the code. There is a signaling aspect, so if this were approved and we took out both the Planning Commission and the council, how would the public identify and communicate issues that there's they communicate issues that aren't a problem and everybody else's mind, maybe in theirs, but there have been some things that have come up that are worthwhile. How would those be identified, communicated and brought to the Forefront for uh for change.

N

uh Sure um uh mayor-elect Morris, um the that was actually a point of discussion uh by commissioner Driscoll when we had this in September. It was a discussion item when when commission was directing me to prepare these amendments, uh she referenced Pet, Suites and that's a great example. Pet Suites we were processing as a site plan.

N

um We knew right away that it's probably not appropriate as a site plan, um and we brought forward an amendment to change it to a special use for uh for any future application. Pet Resorts anything of that nature, so it allows Council or commission and Council both the discretion to limit or deny that similar use. Should it ever come up again.

N

um The the other thing. That's that's. Basically, a Fail-Safe in the ordinance itself is the zoning administrator. Has the authority to bring any any case before the commission or Council?

N

um Should they should they deem necessary that public input is is necessary, um so there are probably obviously our chapter uh section. 3.5 of our zoning ordinance isn't really an exhaustive Clearinghouse of every anticipated use that could ever go in, um but it's a good start and it's a good Baseline for what things are appropriate and what zones like storage and warehousing not being appropriated in commercial, buffer or town court commercial.

N

So our ordinance is already structured kind of with the guard rails and then we as staff, have have the ultimate discretion to bring It Forward if it's something that is allowed by site plan. But we think it's a good, a good case to maybe create change. That's that's when you would see those types of cases come forward. So how would the.

E

Public know learn about know about and express their opinions on, something that that came up right now. We've advertised meetings with Planning Commission and with Council that are watched closely. How would the public find out about these and know when something was going to happen, not necessarily in their neighborhood, because I presume that the notification I I presume is a current notification and public meeting still going to continue.

N

um No, we would not send out notice, necessarily or I mean. Obviously, if these were approved, we wouldn't have public meetings on site plans.

E

No mailers going out to the neighbors.

N

No, no, not necessarily the um trying to give give an example of you know, for example, if, if something in the town core, an existing building uh that had an existing use, you know, Montessori is is a perfect example. The Montessori school at Spur cross uh that was office, retail um first and then they came in and did it send an improvement in switch occupants there? There was no public notice, there were no meetings, it was allowed by. It was an allowed use Allowed by site plan.

N

It was just able to occupy that building and then just looking at our inventory, left of of vacant commercial properties, I mean yeah, I'd, probably be.

N

The neighborhood of well I mean we still have several Parcels I mean a lot of parcels that are yet to be zoned and those would require public hearings. Obviously,.

E

Yeah yeah Zone, you're, probably hearing but our site plans advertised and oh.

N

They are oh, yes, yes,.

S

E

S

Mike, well, they are because it's going to finally.

N

As they are now, yes.

E

S

No required notices to be sent out like a rezoning, yeah, okay, um these are just Parcels, where they're already entitled to that use. They're zoned for retail or whatever use, is allowed under our code and they're, seeking to utilize their property as prescribed by our codes and oranges. That's it so.

S

My experience is that most of the public input has nothing to do with how many trees or the driveway surface or stuff like that. It's really, we don't need another outlines, or they disagree with potential use that that owner.

C

S

Elected to implement on its property right.

A

Mr Sims, following up with uh councilman Morris's stuff there um at the moment that an applicant of plot brings in a site plan uh at that point. If we find it something we don't particularly want.

A

This body has no opportunity at that point to to repair that, but God is an exposed facto issue where it's where we would be denying someone their right to utilize. The property under the current rules and regulations is that.

O

Is that accurate? Are you saying the Luke I've been looking at this well.

A

Yeah here let me let me see if I can be a little clearer, um uh So. Currently now there's there's a case that comes in and they really have no discretion. We have no discretion when they get to us uh and and obviously the danger is if they, if they try and get discretionary with it and change something, then that's that's where the, where we have exposure at the time that they that they uh bring a site plan to staff, begins to look at that and go oh gee.

A

We don't really want this here, but it fits our criteria. We can't do anything about it at that point, either.

O

No, if they meet the criteria, they have a a right to, in effect, develop it in accordance with the criteria. The problem is, but the issue is: is that it's not completely totally uh objective I mean when you Landscaping I mean I. Think in that what would Luke correctly Luke? Where was the page yeah page page 99 I work with 77 cities and towns on Landings generally the larger, as you can see here, they they allow staff to make the decisions. Why?

O

Because they're the right persons to sit down with the applicant to see to take a look at the technical guidelines that I'm, not certain they're, a hundred percent objective I mean maybe you want trees in this area or maybe, and so what staff does is because the applicant wants to make sure they have a development that fits the town and so and the Z.

O

The zoning administrator is the right person, and so most jurisdictions would handle administratively you're, not necessarily like most jurisdictions, and so uh I mean and and you're you're I work with primarily smaller jurisdictions, where they really try to reserve most of it to the electives, not necessarily to the appointments and so what? What present? What? What the.

U

Commission is saying when the vice.

O

Chairman said it quite well: they seldom do they have much discretion, they have absolute discretion, but they can't make a final decision on legislation you get to make that decision, much like when I answered councilman Monica. So but the the reason is property rights. You have they and you have the right to harm people's property. You have the right to make decisions that can benefit the value of property or cause a detriment in the value of property.

O

That's why we have a very rigorous system, public hearings before them, and if there's a protest, there's a public hearing before you, because our constitution protects their property rights that does not apply to Cyclones, and so now what I'm hearing but I don't see the third alternative here. I see you have three options: they are saying it's not their highest and best use to make these decisions. They're, not elected. These are fairly objective. We should let staff make the final decision.

O

What I'm hearing from you is you're worried that that will rule keep keep the public out. But what I'll tell you is the public doesn't have much rights assuming the property owner has met the conditions, but if there's any ambiguity it'll be handled at the Za level, where do we put that tree? How you know how how and so there there is some discretion on the technical guide? Wouldn't you agree with me on there?

O

Absolutely yes, and so what they're saying is: let's let the pros make that decision get them out, but then you have to decide.

O

Are you willing to follow Paradise Valley, Prescott Valley, all of which they all say, administrative review only and some of my smaller jurisdictions give give the the the property owner the the one an appeal to you. But the appeal is short. The appeal is very narrow.

A

Yeah wait basically you're open to open yourself up for Action any any any action you take above and beyond the established criteria on the site plan exactly.

O

A

O

Assume Luke made a decision. I want three trees versus four I, can't believe what am I here. I can't believe that could get to you, but that might be something they were there. They would like.

A

To know if they could appeal, they could yeah, but.

O

I think it's as as you would.

A

Have to go through them.

O

A

They do now, they.

O

Do now, but I can tell you of the 77 cities and towns I work with the utility of their group, and you is unbelievably unbelievably successful unless use the example of sober living. They are not elected, they had to listen to me, tell them about the fair housing act and they made a decision to allow sober living in a residential district. That's a tough call, but they were, they were limited by the law, and so then they recommended to you and I think it was almost unanimous. Wasn't it yeah? It was unanimous.

O

So then you and we had some recessions talking about the fair housing act and you made the decision to allow that's how the system should work. We're going to let the non-electeds take the appointeds look at some tough issues. All of it can be aired out publicly in hearings. Then it comes to you for a final decision, so the decision you have to make is: do you want to go straight, administrative, taking them and you out or is there something where we could have some sort of a field or.

N

I mean even just listen to you would be. Another option would be consent agenda. It's a council where we send out notice. People are actually notified within a radius of the the property and if people show up and want to pull it off the agenda and and discuss.

L

N

That could be done as well.

E

But if they did that, what would the app there'd be? No, it couldn't affect it still. It'd just be a venting. Unless.

O

Unless there was an error like.

E

Bob caught unless there was an air or the opportunity to complain about something, or maybe they found something that we ought to change in in code or or.

A

I think that would be the.

O

First to say: they've already applied.

E

Not for this one, but the next one objective.

O

They're they're great gray area incorrect when you sit down with an applicant in terms of this landscape, I can't believe your code is rigid.

N

Well, yeah: it's not how many trees of this kind and how many trees of this? Yes, okay, there is some discretion Bill. Thank.

I

You, but, but in in the planning process, Luke there is a management meeting which is kind of like the first step, even before a site plan, you would have some discretion there meeting with the applicant. This is a good idea. That's not have you thought about this.

N

That so you're, referring to the pre-application conference.

I

V

Yeah, so, and that that.

N

Gets routed to all the different departments they're able to you know, Sean says this is what we need for utilities. Hal says this is what you're going to need for Adriana's report and traffic study, and the list goes on um yeah. We we look in what they're proposing is that allowed? Is it not? What are the processes that they would have to follow uh in order to obtain that so um yeah, my I'm, usually not as as filtered with with applicants? Sure thank you anything.

A

Else from Council questions nope all right. There is public comment on this: one David Phelps, careful, Dave.

W

I know the history.

W

So top of the list will be page 98. Who will talk about the lower case?

W

As it's been renamed, it was actually a case in which the town's staff having a standard for 25 percent undisturbed area for a commercial parcel that came to the Town, Council and I, could see that we were not going to get four votes after going to Planning Commission and having the staff recommend approval.

W

We were not going to get four votes to approve that um site plan when it got to our Council, because we were in the midst of working with friends of spur across. We were in the midst of annexation whisper across.

W

We had a town ethic here that believed in the natural Living Desert as a primary, the driver that you protected the Saguaro, you didn't just move them all around the death row, and so what happened was after really many attempts to try to get staff and the applicant to to follow our ordinances.

W

Regarding um the undisturbed requirement of 25 percent, they were submitting us a site plan that had less than 18 percent and staff said it meets our requirements. It clearly did not.

W

We should have had the discretion to say it does not meet our requirements.

W

Come on back when you're ready with 25 percent of undisturbed staff was at a point during that time, where they were willing to allow the applicant to have the streetscape along the front of the Cave Creek Road landscaped, and allow that to be a value added to the undisturbed equation. They were going to give them undisturbed credit for their street Escape improvements. It's clearly not the intent of the indisturbed portion of our zoning code.

W

It's a different thing.

W

um I was sued personally I've told Ernie about this before um and that was I considered it a slap suit from people that were frustrated and they were um I brought. The infamous hanging chad of the town of Cave, Creek I brought a cocktail napkin.

C

W

That Vincent Francia for I don't know why he decided to call this the cocktail napkin, but this is what I was drawn on and this this plan has everything this plan has, except this meets the requirements for our zoning ordinance.

W

This has the undisturbed a portion, that's required by our ordinance. This did not it never did, and because staff and the Planning Commission brought it Forward saying it met the requirements.

W

Look what a position we were put in so I'm here to actually agree with these guys and I'm telling you why this was 30 years ago, and we probably had different things like we had in the town's zoning code.

W

Article 16-8, subsection three requires a site plan applicant to consider analyze and protect special features such as topography, vegetation wildlife, habitat archaeological sites and historic sites, and provides for approval only if certain criteria are met, including a requirement that the design and operating characteristics of the proposed development are reasonably compatible with surrounding development and land uses and negative impacts have been sufficiently minimized.

W

There's a lot to that. Can you see how one or two guys working here at Town Hall with paper up to here, could miss something we needed extra sets of eyes 30 years ago to look at everything everything that came through and especially when you get interpretation like the standard is 25 percent undisturbed?

W

The applicant is submitting to you less than 18 percent.

W

How can that not be a failure somewhere in the standards, implementation and I'll? Tell you what it is. It's how we interpret.

K

W

How we interpret what we want to do yeah so I'm here tonight to support the changes, but I want something else. I really want to see our town develop wisely and with more oversight. Then then, maybe these guys want- or maybe you want I would like to see the design review board, somebody that can work with architectural standards.

W

They can work with the land landscape and what we can do is we can Implement our existing bulk standards and put some teeth into it, because we'll have a board that works with an applicant with with Luke to get us to where we want to be. We've been pretty lucky. If you consider our failures and our fights and our successes, because people still come to Cave Creek and it's a one of a kind now they don't say that down on the Carefree Highway looking thing, because that's all boilerplate stuff.

W

That's what happens if you want to just use bulk regulations and make it easy and have no design standard criteria. That's what you get it's! What we got on Carefree Highway, it's it's the Sprouts! You can get anywhere. It doesn't look specially Cave Creek does it. You can't tell me that the uh Tractor Supply looks especially upstanding. Have.

A

You not seen the big round lot peel logs that are on the entrance come on now.

V

You can't see the inside from the outside Ernie I'm talking about the outside the.

A

Design, how about the outside okay.

V

The peeled dogs on the inside on.

A

The outside, on.

V

The outside no I.

W

Haven't what do they do? They make a Corral on the front you're.

A

W

Trying to eat up my time, I know what you're no.

A

Your time's already up actually.

W

I thought you wanted me to take all nine so.

A

No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No! All right! David I appreciate it.

W

Well, that's I got us through this cocktail. Napkin part because I know the lore is important to everybody, but Galore is kind of a lie. I'm.

A

Glad you I'm glad you clarified that that is not a cocktail. Napkin.

W

Well, it, and if it is I want the cocktail that goes with it. Foreign all right, I'll be back.

D

B

No additional speakers: okay.

A

We're back to council I'll.

E

Make the motion please.

E

um I'm going to make this uh option two on the consent agenda protection system: oh I quit the discussion for that.

E

Don't let me make the motion uh motion approved first reading of ordinance, zero, uh two zero two two-05, an ordinance of the mayor and Council, the town of Cave Creek, Maricopa, County Arizona, and many of the town of Cave Creek zoning ordinance, chapter 12, entitled site plans, section 12.2 and title procedures, section a number seven and eight and section 12.7 entitled amendments and expiration, subsections d and e establishing an effective date and providing for repeal and severability comma option two to be submitted on the consent agenda. Second, so.

A

You had the motion yeah.

E

I I I did option two, because you know the only downside I see to this is notification and the Publix awareness of something that's going on, and so, if we do option two in the consent agenda, it will be advertised to the public.

E

It will be out there um if someone disagrees with it or has something to say about it uh or if they find something wrong with it, whatever they can get up and call the public mention that and then anyone on Council can have it pulled from the consent agenda, and so that gives the public um an opportunity to find something to them. But.

D

E

Gets the administrative stuff out reduces the amount of staff times at both meetings, so I think you've come up with a I I, really like things like this and they come forward I. You all deserve our congratulations and Luke. This is great work.

C

I, don't think he meant but I think you're corrected I think he corrected it.

A

Vice mayor, you had the second I.

J

Gave a second on this, because I I believe the council member Morris picked the correct option.

J

I would have a concern with the council not being able to at least take a look at site plans, uh because if you review all of the uh standards that are utilized, you will find that there are at least a few that are might ambiguous and interpretable and I think that it needs to go to the council so that when those issues prevent present themselves as well as some other kinds of issues, the council be the will be the final arbitrator on whether a site plan is approvable or not.

J

uh I know that uh uh our Council has said that uh there really is absolutely no latitude. I have never seen a legal situation where there is no latitude. So that's the reason why I uh I support what uh council member Morris is uh picked is the option. Let.

A

Me get a clarification uh from from councilman Morris you you were talking about having on the consent agenda to be pulled if it needs to be, or or as a regular uh agenda's item on the on the on a meeting. Well,.

E

A

Really clear on that.

E

um Well, I modify an option, two saying that that it still required Council approval and that would be on the consent agenda. Okay, so if someone disagreed with it, they could step the podium say: I, disagree, uh someone! Anyone on council could then pull an author consent agenda for another meeting or for review.

A

Or whatever it needs to be that's a clarification. I was looking for I like that. A lot question former vice mayor, Silva.

G

With the option too, whereby it's going to the council under a consent agenda uh Luke, if you could explain to me again the notification that would be going out if it were a consent agenda, item understood it could be pulled and brought back as a regular item versus just putting it on the regular agenda, not the consent agenda. What's the difference in the notification process, Etc.

N

G

N

That I can think of.

G

N

That's not same.

E

N

E

So but look, it still saves your time right. I mean.

T

No absolutely now.

E

You're just putting the same stuff, you would have developed anyway into the that's correct.

A

And if there is an issue it can be, it could be looked at right, right and then passed anyway, because it meets the criteria. Okay, councilman monokino,.

I

Thank you mayor. First, let me complement the chairman. Voris he's been at this quite a while and he's made recommendations here on these three agenda items.

I

um He got it done, and my compliments Mr chairman Mayor Mike comments here on this uh agenda. Item number three and, as the planning director suggested, there's two more of these zoning things. This is the first time that I've seen this well in this item number three. This is the first time I've seen this and I have not had a chance to research. This thing entirely I mean we had questions here with regard who gets notifications, mailers I mean I would have liked to have investigated.

I

What are the ramifications of this and agenda item number four and agenda item number five I suggest Council should have been involved in with this, um along with a bigger public meeting, so my recommendation would be: let's continue this. We.

A

Have a motion on the floor that we need to vote on Mr Sims is shaking its head. Yes, so we'll go ahead. Can I.

I

Can I yeah.

A

Go ahead, I mean you can't make a motion to continue at this point, because we had the first motion that we have to do and.

I

I have a comment? Can I make an amendment.

O

You can ask you, can ask for it if you get a second, then we'll vote on your Amendment and then, if amended, then we'll vote on the original motion.

A

Now see Maguire's holding his hand up too I didn't, but not.

I

A

Tom hang on a minute. Yes,.

P

I

Amendment would be to continue this so that we could hold workshops together, Council and the commission to explore.

I

For all these recommendations, Mr.

O

Mayor that actually is an amendment. What you're saying is vote this down and then continue I think I'm, not sure what you just said is an amendment. What you're asking to do is is to prevent discussion on the idol. If you wish to amend it, you could. But yours really isn't an amendment. Yours is you you want. You want this voted down and then table it. So I think you you now your Council needs to vote on it and if they vote it down, then you could recommend them to be table. Okay,.

C

D

E

Would recommend that it.

O

Directly to come because then the table you directly comes back for consideration, so.

A

Right now we vote on Mr Morris's.

O

But I bet, but apparently we have another counselor who has a question.

A

Oh yeah councilman, who are I'm sorry.

P

A

I'd like to know that.

P

All of us council members.

A

We can't hear you you got yourself: okay can.

P

You hear me now: is this better I've.

A

Been waiting for this for 17 years.

P

Can you hear me.

A

Unfortunately, I can.

P

Hear you now, do you hear me.

K

P

Go ahead. Thank you.

P

Council has been criticized in the community for following the law, and this is a comment primarily for the new Council coming in that we need to follow the law and be prepared that when we do, we will be criticized in the community, but we have to hold firm, follow the law and do what we can to explain to people what the ramifications are. Sometimes those people don't even want to speak to us. However, we do have an obligation to follow the law and we have to be careful to do so.

A

Thank you all right. So now we we vote on councilman, Morris. Okay, all those in favor of motion with the amendment, which is uh option number two uh to be consent agenda. uh All those in favor say goodbye signify by saying aye.

P

Aye aye aye aye opposed.

A

No okay, we so do I need. We need to do a a roll call now, because uh one member voted no.

B

Council member Roy, yes, council, member Silva, yes vice mayor Smith, yes councilmember, McGuire, yes, councilmember, Matt, Aquino,.

K

B

Council member Morris.

A

Aye mayor Bunch, uh yes, motion carries uh 6-1, we'll move on to the next one, which is going to be uh Council discussion. Approval first reading board is 2022-06 an ordinance of the mayor and Council of the town of Cave Creek Maricopa County Arizona, mending the town of Cave Creek zoning ordinance, chapter 14, entitled officers, boards and commissions, section 4.1, 14.1 entitled Planning Commission, subsection C, entitled duties, number four establish an effective day and providing for repeal and severability Mr councilman.

N

Yes, mayor members of council, this is uh the second step in the in the three here. This is for chapter 14, section 14.1 under the Planning Commission uh requirements, C duties number four four currently reads to hear review and make recommendations to the Council on all applications for development, including subdivisions plots site plans, special use permits and any other permit or review process is provided in this ordinance or the subdivision ordinance. This amendment would simply strike site plans uh from the commission purview and answer any questions you may have Washington.

A

J

I, just vice mayor now, what the what this was due is uh simply uh uh tailor the rest of the uh ordinances that refer to the responsibilities of the Planning Commission to meet what we we just decided on correct.

N

It doesn't subrogate what you've just done or what you may do in the next chapter. Thank you.

A

B

Public comment: David Phelps, I.

A

B

W

Okay, are we on the section two portion of the show for tonight we're on.

A

Here item four: the Gen item: four.

W

Yes, I know, but what they do over here is they don't put the meat they just put the agenda so I, don't know what page you're on on what you're doing do you have.

I

104., you have.

U

W

That says the town of Cave Creek ordinance, chapter 12, entitled site plan, section 12. entitled Amendment.

A

108 of 159 and.

W

Is that part of the agenda by the way addressing current.

A

It's got site plans in two places that are struck from the uh from.

W

The ordinance, so the part that I want to discuss with you is uh there's, there's been a suggestion to go ahead and have the minor amendments to a previously approved site plan may be authorized by the zoning administrator. That does not give me heartburn, and neither should you get heartburn from that.

W

Major amendments to a previously approved site plan shall be reviewed and approved by the commission and Council following the same procedure as described in this ordinance is completely struck and I don't agree with that. It should then come back to you for another one of your consent agenda items and oh by the way, when you put that on the consent agenda, you make sure you put public comment down.

W

Maybe you can't really go into consent agenda again, so.

A

W

Things can happen when we're.

A

All all you do, is you contact one of the people sitting up here and say? Please pull that because you need to.

W

Discuss it so that's before the meeting or during the meeting, uh probably I.

A

Either one would.

W

Probably work see this just gets a little bit crazy when we're going to do that kind of thing. Ernie I want I want to work with you on this I'm, just saying as for a procedure, if somebody called me and said hey, what do I do? I want to see this site plan pulled. I would excuse, me normally say, go to the meeting and when it's your turn to speak at you know, consent agenda item public comment period, tell them you'd like it pulled and they'll pull it.

W

However, just a slight detail.

A

Anyway, there there may be some way to achieve that. Maybe not Mr Sims.

O

This is a good point, but you uh-oh, we've already blown it. They already voted on this. um No no.

W

That the people that voted for it can ask to vote on it again.

O

uh uh Well, here's where I think we can you raise a very good point, but I would suggest is that we've already said that any that this would be an amendment to a site plan. I think the minutes should reflect that. That would.

U

O

To be posted, any.

U

O

Would have to be posted and you you then could ask that it'd be taken off the consent agenda.

W

Thank you well,.

E

They can be taken all the consent agenda by any Council.

K

W

E

Telephone call.

W

You're not allowed to address an agenda item that call to the public am I wrong.

O

Because, right now the public would stand up and say this is on the consent agenda I'm going to ask that they pulled off.

W

Okay, we'll start a new rule. Apologize Bob, I didn't mean I'm.

E

W

Typically, when I come here and I.

O

Want to speak greatly for making you talk, get my goal. Am.

W

I talking to you, no, my lips very good point. Look.

A

This way, but talk sideways.

W

The eyes are right and the eyes have, uh you know, seriousness, changing the format that you typically use to allow the public to approach you on an item. Just for this one issue seems a little bit cockeyed and I would suggest that we agree tonight on a way for you to review it. That is already following our standards, so it would be down in the B section, not in the consent. Section I couldn't say anything because I was sitting back there and I'd already burned up in three minutes anyway.

A

If it were me, I probably wouldn't allow public comment on this thing.

D

C

W

I never thought that about you Ernie, uh so do mistakes happen with site plan review in town I would ask you who approved the Buffalo Chip?

W

That thing is an unmitigated disaster and we all feel bad for it.

W

um I do think our criteria. Standards need to be revised for review of the site plans so that we can evolve as a community with the developments are coming to town. If you want to leave the commercial Bell, Road look alone, I get it I can see. What's going on down there, 15 or 20 years from now in those two inch round trees grow into something you can park. Your car under we'll all be happy with it.

W

But right now, when you pull into the intersection of Carefree Highway and Cave Creek Road, what looks like would be in Cave Creek is actually in Carefree foreign.

A

O

Have a suggestion this has already been voted on. It is first read we have a second read coming back. The problem is, is you don't want every minor? What is a minor Amendment could be a very minor change. We don't want to put that on the consent agenda.

G

O

We you raise a good point. We'll have a second read to see. I would suggest Mr, council, member Morris's idea about consent. Agenda is I, can't Define, major and minor at all and I. Don't know what it means and so to make Luke bring to you on a consent agenda. Changing access.

P

O

Cut out for by two feet, that'd be a minor Amendment. You shouldn't have to come to you, so we have. We have a second read and we'll. Let us consider I would suggest suggest that we make sure that if you see, if you get a an applicant, gets wind or the neighbors get wind of a mate, what they perceive to be a major Amendment, which is what you're asking then we could.

O

We could consider that at the next read to see if we need to Define that my hope is that we can accomplish this by by noticing it at the the true initial side plan, and then we default to the zoning administrator to accomplish any amendments. And if, if truly that causes a difficulty, then we can come back and make a change. But we, this is the first read we can address your point. Secondly, is that okay.

W

And that's the point regarding when somebody would want to have.

A

Okay, three minutes.

W

Five minutes actually he's trying to be clear on this. Yeah I didn't jumble it up.

A

Oh yeah, you let him speak all right. All right. Are there any more.

B

No additional speakers.

A

We're back to council for a motion. Let me let me make one here: a motion to approve first reading of ordinance, 2022-06 and Orders of the mayor and Council, the town of Cave Creek, Maricopa, County Arizona, amending the town of Cape, Creek zoning ordinance, chapter 14, entitled officers, boards and commissions, section 14.1, entitled Planning, Commission, subsection, C and title duties, uh number five establishing effective date and providing for repeal and severability second yeah, um all I'm going to say is, is I have and this. This really goes to the previous agenda item.

A

But I I have have seen a site plan where uh the developer was precluded from using a public road and it made my skin crawl when I saw that when the guy could have really absolutely crucified us on it, and and that's the kind of thing that that that um that elected officials do uh when they, when they take uh the um uh responsibilities over from the from the professionals on staff. Vice mayor.

J

Now the only command I'll make is that um this is the first reading.

J

There's going to be a second reading, there's going to be a new crew up here and not totally but partially uh so there there may be some different viewpoints uh given and I assume that they may talk to uh uh attorney Sims and staff relative to anything that they might uh feel would be uh appropriate changes. I think that the way that this is constructed, though, is going to be effective.

J

It does it does what we meant to do in the first uh agenda item and not well, I should say number three agenda item and um I I. Don't think that we need to have a lot of controversy over this, it seems to be pretty clear-cut and whether it's a consent agenda.

J

You know a major minor amendment that is something subsequent to the decision that either would be made on the consent agenda or if the uh something was taken off of a consent agenda and the and the council reviewed it and then I would say, staff can make a decision on whether the warrants going back to the council for any any reason at all. Thank you.

A

New York from Council.

K

A

uh Councilman Aquino my.

I

Position is the same on this agenda item as it was on the previous one. This was done without any involvement of council and, oddly enough I agree with Mr Phelps. That um uh public should be involved in this matter. Yeah.

A

Put us in Jeopardy for uh uh action from uh yeah all right. So let's do a voice, uh voice, call or roll call vote.

B

Councilmember sofa, yes, vice mayor Smith,.

J

B

Councilmember McGuire, yes, councilman monikino, no councilmember Morris, yes, councilmember Roy, yes, nearby,.

A

Yes, motion carry 6-0, move on to June item number five, which is Council discussion; approval first reading of ordinance, 2022-07 north of the mayor and Council of the town of Cave Creek Maricopa County Arizona men in the town of Cape Creek Zoning, orders, chapter 3, entitled commercial Zone, section; 3.1, entitled commercial buffer parent CB, Zone subsection; a uh entitled purpose number one in sub and section 3.2 entitled: Town Corps commercial, Prince, TCC, Zone, subsection, a entitled purpose; number one and section 3.3 entitled: General commercial, Prince, GC, Zone, subsection, a entitled purpose; number one establish an effective date and providing for repeal and severability Mr Kaufman.

N

Thank you mayor members of the council. This this is the last uh section of the zoning ordinance that would need to be addressed.

N

Should Council choose to remove the Planning Commission uh from the purview of of reviewing site plans uh based on the action taken earlier, staff would recommend option two as your as your suggested motion and then one other thing was born out of the Planning Commission hearing on the 20th and uh and once another reason why I asked both chairman, Boris and vice chairman breckner here this evening, was to discuss that a little bit and that was section 3.1 is currently entitled commercial buffer, CB and the commission further recommended.

N

While we had this section of the the ordinance open and we're addressing item number A1 that we that the Town Council may be consider changing that name. So I'll turn it over to on by Sherman breckner.

W

Sure, thank you.

A

Luke before you walk, let me ask one little question here about changing CB to intermediate commercial.

A

um Will that in any way that you can foresee negatively affect all of the all of the state trust land out on Carefree Highway area, that is, is actually we're not going to change the the uses or regulations are, but are they going to have a conniption fit when they see us messing with the zoning that was in that agreement.

N

Mayor well stated: I actually do have it noted.

N

um Should this change be entertained or given first reading, I will be reaching out to asld and just letting them know that we are considering changing the name, not the uses or any of the bulk regulations associated with that 120 Acres of commercial zone property that the state trust land has invested in yeah I'd hate to get him mad at us.

A

C

J

uh Mr, director of Community.

N

Development development services- whatever you want to call me I.

J

Blew it already: okay, um I, first off I, think the uh this change, and uh essentially is a name change. uh Is that a bad idea? It's a good idea, it's fine, but what I have an issue with is that first off commercial buffer shows up in the specific area plan. There's no request to modify that here. So that's a piece: that's left out there.

J

That is not reflected in this uh uh chapter 3 uh 3.1 B2B, um which relates to uh I, think usable uses it there's a CB in there that is not modified, I, don't think, that's modified. In fact, it doesn't even show up here B2B, it doesn't show up here and it's part of 3.1 at least the last piece I got on uh the ordinances and uh in 3.4 uh 1.7 point B uh outdoor lighting, there's a specific reference to commercial buffer. uh Next, one on pools, there's a specific reference to commercial buffer uh 3.5.

J

The use descriptions CB is, uh you know rather prevalent in there. uh So it seems to me that they're either either through oversight or um trying to get things done on a timely basis, a number of things were were missed. But what that led me to do was to look at the commercial or to the general plan.

J

There is no land description for commercial buffer and general plan. I think there should be one for uh intermediate uh commercial. There is something in mixed use in there, but in the zoning ordinance there's nothing about mixed use. You know uh and I'm just suggesting that there might be more things to do before this is a complete uh uh product.

N

S uh sure please answer yes, uh mayor vice mayor, um it wasn't an oversight, it's it would change 3.1, which is the title heading of commercial buffer to it to another term, and then anywhere that is identified elsewhere in the ordinance will be changed. So that's not that's not something that requires each section where.

O

We have commercial paper.

N

We would be renaming. The main 3.1 is commercial buffer that that heading so.

J

Everything comes from that because it would just be the table three in 3.5 correct that.

N

Would be whatever the two letter designation is that it's renamed to a three letter in the case of town court, commercial we've done that before we've.

J

Changed so the title, even though the text isn't here right, it's a given correct. Okay, it.

N

Would be updated to reflect that change then.

J

I'm all I'm doing is offering a suggestion that people take a look at the general plan, make some modifications there and.

D

J

Take a look, the specific area plan make a modification there and, uh and then I won't have a chance to say yes to it when it comes along later, but I would say yes, if I were there.

A

J

A

G

You'll have the chance vice mayor, to say yes, as a participant to the meeting as a resident I.

A

Think he wants to do here. Thank.

G

You he has that option.

A

Gentlemen, let's you, you had a presentation on this I believe.

S

uh I I didn't have a presentation.

A

S

I'm prepared to talk.

A

About it well, in that case, any questions from Council actually I do.

S

Oh, you do oh well, please I just didn't prepare one ahead of time. It's in my head, oh um wow, you.

A

S

That a little background on on why I proposed this name changes as a friendly amendment to this current agenda item I, believe the title commercial buffer in our zone is.

D

S

S

C

S

Please um like by having the name commercial buffer, I, believe the interpretation of that mean by the public lends itself to what it is. Not, um it is a is just a name.

S

The uses within that zone are outlined within that section, um mostly within 3.5, um and because it causes significant angst and strife amongst the public and confusion because they're reading you know at our last uh meeting last week, uh we had um guaranteed to spoke on behalf of a lot of residents, recite the definition of the word buffer and so they're reading, something into our Zone zoning coordinates in that section that isn't necessarily so yeah.

S

This is a an error on our part in the in the naming of this particular zoning category uh for commercial buffer. Now, how much does this really impact us not a whole lot?

S

um We have and I checked on this recently because this really comes into play primarily for rezoning cases right, because existing property owners that have a commercial buffer uh Zone to their land, they have their uses. We can call it whatever we want. They still have their uses, they're unaffected. It really comes into play when we're entertaining a rezone or an up Zone from one property to commercial buffer. That's when it really comes into play for the public when they're looking at well. How is this a buffer right, they're?

S

Looking at that word, and we only have about a dozen properties left that have a land use classification or an overlay, for you know within our land use map and our general plan for use that is more dense or more intense than the current Zone, and that is a few in the sap, um a half dozen more in the area 18 and the same for area 10.

S

other than that we don't really. You know the Cake's baked right, so I'm only trying to mitigate this angst amongst the public uh angst that you guys may receive and not have any confusion about what this is.

S

Okay um and and because we were there working on site plans, and we were right in the section naming this zoning category. It seemed to make sense to um if we're, if possible, to remove any confusion or angst amongst the public to do that.

S

um Granted, intermediate commercial doesn't leave us with a Light commercial or something like that, but because we have so few properties left a dozen. In my view, and we've discussed this as a Planning Commission didn't make sense to go through an entire effort to try and create a new zoning category over a dozen Parcels. We have the ability to impose conditions at any time.

S

A property is is uh seeking to be rezoned, as evidenced by what we just recently did, and that seems to be the most effective way to deal with what little we have left in conjunction with, perhaps removing any confusion about what what the commercial buffer zone entitles people to do within that zone by virtue of the title, and that was it.

A

Question from Council councilman Morris, oh.

E

Mayor elect Morris, um I, agree with you, it's a poor title, I mean uh commercial buffer is just a touchstone every one of the cases that comes in here. It's got stuff mixed all in it. It's got all kinds of things.

E

um On the other hand, the people that generally are concerned with this sort of thing kind of understand what it means now and um so I'm worried that in fact, I conclude that it will not be received possibly be received as a as a means of confusing things. We've got a substance, some really substantive improvements and I think this one here might have a negative. It might take away from some of that. So I'd appreciate your comments on that.

S

We're damned if we do more damned if we do yeah yeah, um you know so in my mind, I was thinking which is better I. Think it's better just to to be a clear um and not have confusion in the name. um I think there's we're not changing any substantive provision within the zoning ordinance.

E

S

The name um and my experiences is that um you know the Public's perception on things is often wrong um and we can't change that, no matter what we do and so to to leave it as commercial buffer might lab the public say, ah they're still trying to deceive us with this buffer.

S

um You change it to intermediate commercial, oh they're, trying to change. You know, there's no way to run from that. You know, but the best possible thing I thought was to have a name, a title that is more accurate.

E

What about timing? Well, we've got some really good substantial changes that that really have some impact, and uh is this going to add or subtract from that effort.

S

What substantial.

E

Changes I mean: do you think that the the perception that the public has is their perception, and we can't change that as we said here tonight, but.

S

um Well, that's pretty fluid! You know. Their perception is very subjective to the person you know. Each individual resident um I've experienced that they all have varying subjective opinions and Views and interpretations um I find that most often it's because of a lack of knowledge, a lack of information about how our town works, the makeup of our zoning words, our laws. Why we do the thing as we do?

S

um You know you know and and it's a source of frustration for me to to understand these Concepts and why we do the things we do only to be faced with someone telling me I'm, corrupt or I'm being paid or whatever it may be. uh But uh it's a constant battle that you guys face I face it. The chairman Boris faced it over the years, um but we still do the best job we can and the best for the town um any chance. We have to make improvements.

S

I I, seize on it as you like, okay, so we're here tonight on site plans and making an improvement while we're at it I thought here's a.

C

Chance for another little Improvement, okay,.

S

And I I won't take offense. If you say no on this. One site plans I'm a little more passionate about, but this one I think is another Improvement that we can make and uh I don't see a reason not to mayor.

A

Councilmember Roy I saw her first.

F

um Is intermediate commercial, a common term in the planning world.

S

So I researched this one for available names, neighborhood commercial, you know uh Community commercial, um these were all vetted and discussed and intermediate seemed to be the most fitting because they all also carried um potential miscon misconceived interpretations of the name. You know neighborhood commercial. Well, that's going to be the neighborhood. You know uh Community wait what's that, um and so, when you look at the actual uses in commercial buffer retail office, you know stuff like that. It's an intermediate type of Zone and we're not because we have so little commercial land.

S

You know to develop in our town and especially so little left um we're left to basically analyze I, believe the correct ways on a case-by-case basis, take a look at the at what that applicant is seeking to rezone to and what's appropriate there and that's our bite of the Apple.

S

That's our chance at that time, because they're seeking more rights right, it's when they're seeking more rights, we can condition it do whatever we want, but in terms of available names, I did look at it in depth and what other municipalities and in fact, I think Luke, and you can correct me wrong. I! Think it was called intermediate commercial before we changed it to commercial buffer in within Maricopa County yeah.

N

Yeah commercials, they still do yeah.

S

They still have intermediate commercial, um and so we went and changed it, and my understanding is that it didn't really become an issue until recently, because most properties were being rezoned to General commercial. It wasn't until recent that we started utilizing the commercial buffer Zone.

D

S

And that's why it's now become an issue.

C

S

Mostly because of that buffer and the you know a word within it,.

A

Former vice mayor so.

G

I happen to agree with council member Morris, but only from the standpoint it'll be a very short-lived short-term, perhaps confusion with the public thinking. Something's changed community Through, proper communication, I think they'll realize it's it's it's semantics, it's maybe the word and I think I really agree with Vice chair bruckner's observations that, from a long-term point of view for the 12 more Parcels whatever the number is.

G

It would add some clarity that it's not a buffer, that there's not certain things that the public perceives of can going in there vis-a-vis an intermediate commercial, so uh I tend to support the long-range potential effect versus the short term and- and I would support it. Thank you.

A

J

Yeah I'd I'd like to ask uh Mr Kaufman a uh a question.

J

It would it would seem to me that making some changes well to to the uh zoning ordinances, while not making a change to the specific area plan is going to leave the specific area plan an orphan, because if there's no CB and it specifies CB without a change and I- think the the general plan, because the saps in the general plan it's referenced and Incorporated I- think uh without that done, uh I I, don't know if there'd be a way to do uh any kind of multi-residential type stuff.

J

uh Without that change, um and- and that runs me back to the definitions, you said that there would be some changes made simply because uh uh some previous things had been mentioned. The definition of uh uh commercial buffer for residential is it's either single family or Mr. Mr has a limitation of eight dwelling units per acre.

J

uh Is there going to be change, or is that going to stay the same and just have CB replaced by IA.

N

That, yes, your second one, okay, so there's there's still that no substantive uh changes to any of the uses or bulk regulations in that zone as previously reported. Yes,.

J

Okay, but I I do I, I don't know illegally. uh uh Maybe our attorney can tell me whether I'm correct about the specific area plan becoming essentially an orphan and.

N

To that point, no, because the the specific area plan allows intensities up to commercial buffer, but it also identifies specific uses that are allowed and prohibits certain uses uh that would otherwise be allowed, and the the specific area plan also allows for Mr zoning considerations as well am.

J

I only uh as a subset of the the CB.

N

No, you can, you can Zone, you can request a zone change to Mr in the specific area plan.

J

I read it today: I I didn't see that I. The only way I saw it's.

N

A less intense Zone.

J

Cb to Mr was in 3.5 no.

N

In in the specific area plan, because commercial buffer is a commercial zoning category, it's more intense than a residential category, even an MR. So, for example, the residential Community behind Starbucks was rezoned to Mr um I I can't remember how many years ago that was now but oh.

J

N

Mean that was rezoned to Mrs their original. Their original proposal was commercial buffer that was denied. They requested Mr that was approved and that's the 32 homes that are back there now Okay.

J

N

A long history is not an orphan.

J

As long as there are none of those little uh problematic things, uh I I certainly have no problem with uh this. Thank you.

A

You know any other question: Council does David have one on this. One too he's standing up I, see.

B

Him out I was going to call Paul yeah.

A

C

W

Thank you, uh mayor and Council David Phelps again um for 12 Parcels left for the idea that there's any kind of obfuscation attempt I wouldn't do it. I would help clarify it by adding CB and maybe in parenze, mixed use or something of that nature, because it truly is a mixed-use category.

W

The commercial buffer, that's been around 30 years. The reason why people think it's going to be less intensive than commercial is because it intended to be that way. It just didn't turn out that way. It is in fact less intense commercial uses because of the times of operation the kinds of things we were hoping to attract the doctor's offices, the dentist's offices, the Professional Services people like this guy only works part-time foreign.

W

It was important in the beginning to get our own nomenclature away from the county, because we are not the county. We are Cave Creek, so I agree with you in part and that's it. Thank you.

B

A

That was like a minute and 20 seconds.

H

Well, good evening, folks, so you get both sides of the story here: I'm Paul, ilkema, 38926, North, 57th place mayor vice mayor council regarding ordinance, zero. Seven here this item is one which is an important start to the work described in our 2021 General plan as much needed refinement to our ordinances.

H

The ordinance named commercial buffer has been used as a catch-all, Zone I think they're, 23 or or uh more options that you can use. 26 I, think 26.

H

um and it has. It has been a major source of confusion uh and friction between commercial projects. Proposals and the neighborhoods which have proximity, I, complement the planning staff for beginning this conversation and offer strong support for fully defining intermediate commercial zoning and, with the help of the community, to develop effective buffer language as part of the overlaid planning category. These actions to develop the clarifying language are respectful to the investors of commercial applications and directly responsive to the will of the people, as defined in the general plan. Thank you.

A

No additional speakers we're now back to council for a motion. Please.

G

I'll make it there's.

G

No one else will uh motion to approve first reading of ordinance, 02022 Dash zero, seven, an ordinance of the mayor and Council of town of Cave Creek Maricopa, County Arizona, amending the town of Cave, Creek zoning ordinance, chapter 3, entitled commercial zones, section 3.1, entitled commercial buffer, CB and parenth Zone subsection, a entitled purpose, uh comma number ones and section 3.2 entitled Town core uh commercial and paren TCC Zone uh subsection, a entitled purpose number one and section 3.3 entitled: General commercial and paren GC Zone subsection, a entitled purpose, number one establishing an effective date and providing for repeal and severability.

A

A

G

I I do think it makes sense and for the comments I made previously I'd just Echo those yeah I, think for the long term. It makes sense it provides Clarity for our residents and uh it'll uh enable the planned commission. The counsel, I I, feel to be more effective and have maybe less problems with the residents, because it does carry the commercial word in it and intermediate. So it's much better than buffer, which opens it up to almost anything so I support it.

G

E

I I don't support it for two reasons: one is I think it adds confusion and it goes into a a climate where perceptions are rule the day, especially when it comes to property uses. The second thing, I think the timing's off I think the time would be better suit it. If we, if it were I'd, have no objection to changing commercial buffer, the name it is a terrible name.

E

Is that categories cause no into problems, but I think the timing is better suited to a future. When we make a substantive change to that specific zoning category, then it doesn't have the appearance of obfuscation, so I will be voting no.

A

I can remember sitting on that chair down there. Oh Tom go ahead. Tom I'm.

P

Concerned that- and this goes back to what uh hey we.

C

Can Mr Mayor can.

P

You hear me this goes back to what future mayor Morris was saying. I I'm concerned that people are going to see this change and see it as a larger change than it really is. They're used to commercial, buffer and I'm afraid they're going to look at this as being the council trying to make a much larger change than we truly are.

P

I I agree with uh councilman Morris that at this point it probably makes sense to bring forward the changes that we're talking about, but maintain the term commercial buffer, because I think the public understands that term.

A

Like so years ago, I was sitting in that chair on the end down there and commercial buffer. uh We were describing uses for it.

A

This was shortly after the state land Department had allowed us to uh to Annex a bunch of stuff and and and create commercial buffer, and we were defining uses in the council sitting there looking at the word buffer in that uh voted six to one to not allow uh retail sales in commercial buffer and, of course, after the meeting I went and asked you know what do you think the state land Department thinks about the diminution of value for all these properties that we just created in the next next meeting?

A

We actually went back and changed it, so, even at the level of elected officials, the word buffer has had some confusion over the years. I wholeheartedly support this, but I think we probably need to go ahead and do a roll call on this for sure Mr.

O

Mayor, if you vote for this, we still need the amendment about the consent agenda, because this also includes Town Council. You can vote against it. You can then have the consent agenda, but if you vote for it, you need to have the amendment that you wanted in the earlier ones. Well,.

E

Why does it need a consent? Agent? Pardon it it's? Oh the ice meat, because the option one option.

K

Oh yeah standpoint.

E

We need the same thing. Well, you just add option well, whoever makes the makes the the Motions been made and.

O

E

Did not say option two, so.

O

My problem is: if they vote for it, then that will be lost. Yeah.

E

But the vote right now is on something that doesn't you have a choice in here and the choice is not made by the motion. That's on the table.

G

Mr Mayor I would offer that to add option two to my.

U

G

A

You needed I will accept that since you, since I was the second now.

B

We can vote vice mayor, Smith.

J

B

Councilmember McGuire no Councilman, Ryan Kino.

K

Yes, councilmember.

B

K

B

Member Ray, no council, member Silva, yes, mayor Bunch,.

A

Yes, 4-3. The next Council can shoot it down if they want to all right we're on the agenda item number six: oh.

C

A

R

Mayor vice mayor members of council, thank you very much for your consideration of our requests. Well,.

A

Thank you so much for your night. Thank you.

C

So much for your nine years of service.

A

I can remember standing in the parking lot of the Buffalo Chip and us having a long discussion when we first met about uh about things and I I had no idea you were going to get involved in in uh was your hair white, then I mine wasn't.

A

Thank you all right. We're up to gen item number six, which is Council discussion, approval resolution, r 2022-19, a resolution of the mayor and Town Council of the town of Cave Creek Maricopa, County, Arizona, adopting and amending the monthly service charges and usage rates for water services in the Cave Creek Water, Service Area.

E

I move. We take a break okay.

A

Can we take yeah, let's take a five minute break.

G

Second and third day.

C

C

C

Q

Q

Anybody: okay, he's back yeah.

Q

Somewhere else.

C

C

Do what you're gonna do.

C

C

C

C

All right, yeah right right.

G

C

A

You know I had uh I had ties stapled to the ceiling, but they took them down.

D

A

uh Like Pinnacle Peak used to be yeah.

G

I thought for a while the steak Master.

C

G

E

Still there doing that, I don't know, I haven't been in.

G

A

All right can we get uh we're.

E

A

A

I

What do we have? Seven.

G

Number six.

I

Six, oh man: what's this one.

A

Except if we spent so much time on, we really ought to shoot right. Thank you.

I

Okay, I I get the hint.

A

All right, like I, said we're up to agenda item number six, which is Council discussion, approval resolution, R 2022-19 resolution, the mayor of Town Council of town of Cave, Creek, Maricopa, County, Arizona adoption and amending the monthly service charges and usage rates for the Water Service in the Cave Creek Water Service, Area I, don't see a lot of new people in the council chambers Sean, that's a hint we've heard it.

X

Well, mayor council, uh with your permission, we'll actually discuss a real quick presentation on on item six, seven and eight obviously they're separate actions. Different resolutions, just to give a general overview where we're at and I will be as quick as I can excellent.

X

I think I've messed something up. Ryan I, don't know, I've done something with the controllers. That's.

J

Good. Thank you.

X

C

X

Again, real quick summary: uh we are, we did a study. We've been working on it for a while Kevin Barnett is to my right, um usually we're used to seeing Kevin on the screen so he's in person, so we're near the end of our study. That's what that indicates. Typically, um the town has been looking at our utility rates um to make sure that they can support the operations and and the goals that we have moving forward. uh We did a 10-year forecast study for both operational costs and capital costs.

X

We were looking to split the cost to the the base rates that users are charged regardless of usage and the volumetric 5050.

X

We got fairly close to that that was sort of a goal, but really the biggest goals are to highlighted on this, this page, which are make sure we can provide the revenues to support the ongoing operation and Capital Improvements for the uh the funds, the different funds and those being in the Cave Creek Water fund, Desert, Hills, Water, uh Waterfront and Cave Creek Wastewater fund, uh as well as uh trying to meet some of the town's financial goals.

X

uh Those are including debt service coverage of 1.2 times Revenue, that's important as we move forward in large capital projects make sure that we can fund these and take on things like new loans.

X

uh We're also looking to make sure that, and in the case of the Wastewater side, is it's truly making it an Enterprise fund uh for a number of years now the town has actually had to support that with other revenue streams, so uh making an Enterprise fund uh in in terms and what I mean by that is that the the revenues generator enough to play for the operation of Maintenance and Capital Improvements.

X

X

So 2020 was the last time we looked at the the rates. um What uh has happened since then, as we've uh now have the settlement with Carefree, we are losing the 550 accounts that also includes Revenue. So we had to take a look at that.

X

um We we've been looking at how we do the Desert Hills tie-in, um and that's because the desert Hill system has actually been supported by the Cave Creek Water System Desert Hills only has its three operational Wells, so it doesn't have enough capacity production capacity to meet its demand. So ever since the town's um taken over ownership operation of that system in late 2006, we've actually had to supplement it with some of the town's cap Water Supplies.

X

So we tried to work on the the program to allow us to properly capture those costs and uh part of that was developing a new Wheeling rate for Desert Hills.

X

um Last year we were able to get a new subcontract of municipal or of um uh non-dating agricultural water cap, water for Desert Hills, there's a cost of that water. But it also means that, if they're paying for a portion of their Water Resources, we they will be charged for treatment and delivery from The Cave Creek System, but if they have to dip into the municipal and Industrial Supplies, which are the Cave Creek systems. There's another feat associated with that.

X

Okay, so I ripped a Band-Aid off. This is uh the proposed rates uh that the study recommended moving forward. You can see some fairly large ones up front, but it does taper off. It shows that we have some specific needs that we're trying to address um in the Cave Creek Wastewater in uh 2023 is a fairly large one, because there's a gap in the system. uh The fact that revenues are not supporting the operation there, so this moves us very quickly towards that goal.

X

As you see the resolutions we're actually looking or looking for Council to adopt a multi-year rate increase one is it takes a long time to do these rates uh rate increases and by doing multi-years it actually gives us Revenue stability for the Enterprise funds in 2020. The report did recommend multi-year rate increases council at that time elected only due the first year. We didn't have time to come back and do the update in 2021, so we're here in 2022, so we're we're hopeful that Council agrees with us and allows for them all to years.

X

This study going out to 2028. At this point we don't anticipate. We would anticipate we'd come back before future councils to actually have a discussion about what we need at that point, but at least this gets us in that direction and and sources and lets us have a revenue increase for the funds that we can rely on.

G

Excuse me, mayor Sean: did you point out that the last great increase on the Wastewater had been 12 years ago.

X

I did not uh council.

G

Member may I add that then yes, we.

X

May yeah so you're corrected 20 2009 was the last time. Actually the Wastewater rates were adjusted. So in the 2020 rate study we did not touch the Wastewater rates, so we're going back quite a ways with not having the revenues of being generated by the Wastewater customer support the actual operation of the Wastewater fund. That's one of the biggest issues with Wastewater for Desert Hills.

X

It was actually the cost of the water resources for the system to better equalize that out and Kevin has more details, um but I'll just give you a summary of the schedule. We've been talking uh for a while about this. We started in January we're talking about the assumptions. uh We've come back to council a number of times, we've heard from Counts.

X

We've done several adjustments, uh we're now at the the last phase, where we've actually done the notice to raise rates, and actually, since that time, we've actually published the rate study and we've actually had a couple of meetings with Council to continue to move forward and get feedback. uh So tonight's action is uh having a council adopt the rates again. This reception at three separate actions, We'll be asking for you and we set the dates coming effective in January.

X

At this point on January 9th is the the Monday January 9th is when we start the next set of reads, so we make the effective date January 9th for the future rates that we've asked to have done. That would be the first building period so that the the date of the reads actually does change every year. So we've made it given staff the flexibility to make that decision.

X

X

And we have done some Outreach we've set up a separate website um for this on our web page on the town's website. We've used news as announcements to make sure people were aware of this. um So far, we've actually doubled the number of comments. Since we last spoke last time we spoke, we had received two comments on the website. We've now actually have four um one was um for Wastewater.

X

It was a citizen who was concerned about why he should have a higher rate when he's only a part-time resident, even though really the base rate is paying for the the system operation, so they're ready when they're there one was from someone in Desert Hills that was actually supporting the race uh another.

X

A third one was actually someone just asking for some specific details and another one was a Cave Creek person that was basically pointing out that uh there were a little water user, a small account, and there wasn't much difference in their rates, which is actually a goal. That Council had given to us that the low water users not be impacted, is really we're trying to promote the higher water users pay for more and we're trying to promote conservation with our rates.

C

X

Yeah, okay, uh other Outreach we've done is we've done. Newspaper notices, we've done uh notices in the bills. We did do a direct mailer to rlr water customers, uh the 5000 Water and Wastewater customers. We have 900 Wastewater customers and about 5 000 water customers in total um we've received, we got about. 80 came back to us, so we, the staff, have been working very diligently to make sure that we can get those addressing corrected um and we also did direct Outreach where we called the highest water users.

X

What we actually used is is um last month's, the high water users were defined as customers that had over 50, 000 gallons of usage, and uh there was 38 of those customers in Cave, Creek and 23 in Desert Hills, so staff reached out we weren't able to get in touch with everybody, but we did do that effort uh because those were to be the customers most impacted by this, because we did place the highest increases on those higher water users and uh some of the comments we got back people or specifically want to know how, where the rates were going to impact them, and they wanted to talk to us about what we could do moving forward for conservation with them.

X

So that's just some good feedback so more concerned, but again, obviously it's going to be hitting their pocketbooks, but we want to be as transparent as we could to them as the reasons why it's it's really a necessary. Thank you.

X

um So again, pointing out that tonight we're asking Council to approve three sector actions, um we're asking that we actually get the rate increases put in place for the next several years. uh Again. I, don't think this We Won't Come Back to the Future councils before the end of this study um study period that we've got promoted uh presented to you, but at least gives us that Revenue stream that allows us to continue to move forward.

X

um So it would be first building period in January. So customers will see this rate increase in February and we're proposing that that's when they would see it every year. Moving forward that every every January we do the Amendments and then every February people would see that it would be something that we'd do some Outreach towards every year. It also does take a fair amount of staff time because we actually have to go through all our billing codes and actually do the Amendments.

X

So it's it's something we want to do and sort of puts us into a cycle. So you'll see the three resolutions: uh our 20 20 22, 19 20 and 21 they're, all asking Council to do separate actions on.

X

With that, I can pass off to Kevin, so he can give you some more details specifically and whatever details you need all.

Q

Right thanks Sean.

Q

We have another yeah, it should be up there.

C

A

Is this like a test pattern.

C

C

Q

Yeah I can start with that. So Sean covered um some of the beginning, slides in his presentation anyways, um so we were going to get into um why we're conducting the rate study and the purpose of the rates. Here we go.

S

E

Very good place, yeah.

T

Q

T

D

Q

We go um so as Sean alluded to. We looked at the the water and sewer rates about two years ago. Back in 2020, um there was only a one-year adoption at that point in time, um as opposed to a multi-year plan which we're looking at this time around and as Sean mentioned, there's been some fairly significant changes since then, too. The care, the loss of the Carefree customers, uh of course, had an impact on um on the water revenues.

Q

um None of us when we did the last study anticipated inflation and costs, would be going up as high as they have been the last year or so. So. These are reasons why you would periodically do a race study just to check in The Five-Year Plan is good.

Q

We hope that the projections that we've got in the five-year hold for the next five years six years, but certainly if things more significant, like the loss of Carefree customers or um we I, think we anticipated the higher inflation for the next year after this one, and then it would tail off after that, but to the extent that things changed there, um the town might want to look at at revisiting uh the financial plan again um and then the purpose of the race studying on top of making sure that we had the revenues generated that we need to um that.

Q

We were Distributing costs equitably amongst customers and staff, had some different customer classes that they wanted us to take a look at just to give them some more flexibility going forward next slide.

Q

um So where we are in the current rate study process, we've been working with staff for the last couple of years. I think on this one, looking at some different options: funding mechanisms, whether we were going to debt fund Capital cash fund, Capital um we've been before this group a few times getting your advice, your Insight, your thoughts uh on how we can improve the rate structure recommendations, so we've taken all that into account to get to where we're at tonight next slide.

Q

um So just uh we've seen this before, but it's just a bit of a reminder. So this is the Cave Creek Water cash flows under the status quo. um So right now we've got revenues.

Q

Great revenues and capacity fee revenues are not sufficient to meet our ongoing operations expenses. um So the the rate revenue is your number one. Revenue Source, followed by capacity fees, so they're represented in the blue bar there and then the red bar is the expenses every year. So you can see if we continue on the current path, uh we don't have the revenues generated to cover our costs. The two lines there, the purple line, is what your debt service coverage requirement is that's a 1.2 times coverage.

Q

The green line is where you're at so you're, okay in the first couple of years, and then you dip below that that uh debt service coverage Target, which would mean you were in technical default on your debt um next slide.

Q

So this is the status quo for the desert, Hill scenario again same same picture, um the rate revenue and capacity fee Revenue just isn't sufficient to cover your ongoing costs. um The purple bar in this case represents the three months of O M cash Reserve. That Sean mentioned it's not a legal requirement, but it's good, prudent financial planning to have three months of O M so that you can cover your costs in the event that something unexpected comes up.

Q

The green line represents what your actual cash balance is: you're well below the purple line to begin with, and it just keeps getting worse as as we move forward um next slide.

Q

um So now we're looking at the Wastewater again, your revenues aren't sufficient to cover your operating costs um and then that's your end of your cash balance, um the purple being where it should be, or the Target and the green, where it actually is so with all that Doom and Gloom. If we move to the next slide, um so why are we proposing to to increase water rate Revenue? We need to meet our ongoing o m costs.

Q

As I said, they've been going up higher than we anticipated in the last study, so we had to make an adjustment for that. The loss of the Carefree customers we've got some Capital needs that have been identified over the next five years: 6.2 million cash funded capital on the K freak side. There's also the Phoenix interconnect that we're proposing to debt fund. So there's going to be additional Debt Service associated with that there's some Desert Hills projects and then meet the targeted cash Reserve levels and and The Debt Service as well uh next slide.

Q

So we want to make a distinction here on the difference between revenues and rates, and it's really only going to apply in the first year. So Sean showed previously an eight percent Revenue increase for year, one. So that's telling us we need to generate eight percent more rate Revenue in the upcoming year that doesn't necessarily translate into an eight percent rate increase for everybody depending upon how you use water. What tier you fall in. It could be more than an eight percent increase for you. It could be less than an eight percent increase for you.

Q

The eight percent is how much we need overall again, that only applies to the first year, though, in subsequent years we're proposing across the board increases. So if we say we need five percent, more Revenue, all rates would go up by five percent. So it's really just that first year that we have the distinction between uh a revenue increase and a rate increase so next slide.

Q

So this is a refresher of what Sean showed, um so he had six years worked there. Five is a nicer number in my head, so I cut off the last year, but we are looking at the current year plus five, um so we've got an eight percent rate increase this year, followed by a couple of fours and a couple of Threes.

Q

um So the slide before we were looking at, we didn't meet the debt service coverage ratio, so that's that 1.20 times um so you can see with these increases. We're well above that 1.2 times, part of the reason that we have the rate increases that we do and we're showing the strong debt service coverage there uh and working with the town's financial advisor Mr, Jim Strickland.

Q

He indicated to us, as we were developing the plan that while whiffel wants to see the 1.2 times coverage for the upcoming debt issuance, if you have 1.5 or higher, then your rate's going to be better. You don't have to have a special Debt, Service Reserve that gets funded and there's a potential to eliminate the current debt service Reserve, which would free up money um for the for the town to use for other things.

Q

So that's why we're a little bit more aggressive and have a little bit stronger debt service coverage there than just the 1.2 minimum requirement. uh So next slide, please so here's a better picture. So this is the the Cave Creek Water cash flow with the proposed um increases, so you can see by the time we get out to 2027 there we're pretty close on the revenues matching up with what our expenses are um and the green line representing our debt service coverage is much healthier than it was before.

Q

Again in that nice 1.5 ish range that that whiff is hoping for next slide, please um so then we've got the the Desert Hills recommendations. So a little bit more aggressive on the first year for Desert Hills, um you can again see the the target cash balance. That's that three-month Reserve at 850, 867 000 and even with the rate increase Revenue increase, we're proposing in that first year. uh The actual cash balance is well short of what the the target is. So we're.

Q

Actually it's going to take us to about 26 27 um before we get to that Target cash balance or exceed it in this case. So next slide, please.

Q

um So here's the picture on Desert Hills cash flow with um the the increases proposed. So you can see the revenues are exceeding our our expenses in this case and that green line is trending upwards. The way we want it to be um so that you're no longer in a negative position, but you're actually funding that cash balance, which is the difference between the blue bars and the red bars there. That's that's funding that cash back so next slide.

Q

um On the Wastewater side, uh the main driver on the Wastewater side was to fund o m right now, your rate Revenue isn't sufficient to cover your annual operations and maintenance expenses, um and we've also got some Capital needs that we need to address. But the main goal that we had on the Wastewater side was by the end of five years. We wanted the rate Revenue to be equal to what our annual o m costs are.

Q

It reduces the Reliance on the general fund and again that's only taking care of O M, there's still Capital, that is over and above so we would need further rate increases beyond that. In order to fully fund the capital from the Wastewater utility and.

E

That that is still leaving that that sales tax there is it ongoing correct.

Q

Yes, it's the the sales tax is still Incorporated.

E

In our financial subsidized, even though not out of the general fund.

Q

Correct um so next slide, please.

Q

um So these are the the proposed increases on the Wastewater side. So again, a big one in this first year uh more moderate in the outer years, um so you can see at 26 27 there.

Q

um The difference between rate revenue and O M expenses is negative, 12 000 by the time we get to 27.28 we've closed that Gap completely.

Q

um So we do we wanted to get there, but we wanted to get there over time as opposed to the rate shock of doing it all at once or even in a two-year increment. So next slide, please.

Q

Questions so there we have have the picture there. um So we've got the Target Fund balance um it's still going down, but we're improving things.

Q

um So it's not going down as drastically as it was in the previous slide, and you can see the blue bars are getting closer to um the red Bars by the time we get out to 2027..

Q

So next slide, please uh next slide, so the cost of service, so everything we've been talking about so far- is how much more Revenue do we need the cost of service side of things is. How are we going to get that Revenue?

Q

So we used industry standard approaches, we unbundled the current customer classes so, whereas right now you have residential and Commercial classes, we expanded those we're proposing single family and multi-family they're going to have the same rates but at the same time it'll allow staff to track those customers separately so that in the future, if there is a desire to change the rates between the classes, there's more flexibility to do so, and we've further broken up the commercial class again, so that we can track the different customer classes and their uses.

Q

um And then we allocated cost based on fixed and variable costs um and how each customer class uses the system. So next slide. Please.

Q

um So here we have the the base charges that we're proposing for the Cave Creek Water System. um Some of the tweaks that we made to this based on Council Direction Council input before the 5 8 3 4 inch and one inch is now going to be the same for those three meter sizes. And then you would see an incrementally higher base charge for the one inch and larger meters.

Q

um The intent was to, as Sean said, try and get 50 of the revenue from the base charge and 50 from the volume rates um we got close to that we faced it in and I'll talk about that um in the next slide as to why it's not exactly 50 50.. So next slide, please.

Q

um So one of the other changes that we made based on Council Direction in some of our past meetings, uh was originally. We had the first two tiers the zero to ten and ten to twenty. They went down.

Q

The rates went down in the first year only to go back up again uh in the second year in subsequent years, um so we made the change so that those rates are going to be held constant throughout the study period as opposed to going down and then going back up because we held that constant that shifted a little bit more of the revenue onto the volume side, as opposed to the fixed charge side.

Q

So it was more of a 54 volume, 46 percent uh base charge, but we still wanted to try and keep within the spirit of that 50 50 split. So again you can see the multi-family as a new class, but the rates are the same as the single family. um Next slide. Please.

Q

um So then, we've got commercial again: we've broken out some different commercial ones. I should have mentioned. On the previous slide, too. We also took council's consideration in those upper two tiers to really send that conservation price signal and have higher rates in those upper tiers and less impact on the on the lower volume ones, as Sean alluded to so we've got commercial common areas and Commercial Irrigation next slide, please foreign and then commercial pools.

Q

So we had a separate rate class for them now next slide. Please.

Q

um And then the Desert Hills the same philosophy trying to get the 50 50 split between the base charge and the volume rate again, the five eight three quarter and one inch meters are all going to be the same within the one inch being incrementally higher at that point in time. Next slide, please.

Q

um So we only have two customer classes on the on the desert, Hillside um single family and Commercial again trying to send that price signal for those upper two tiers um to encourage water conservation and drive home. That conservation message uh next slide, please.

Q

um So, on the Wastewater rates, we're sticking with the the current approach of a residential base charge per month. There isn't a volume component on the Wastewater side and then on the on the non-residential side. We've got incrementally higher base charges based on the water meter size and then the last line there, the Interceptor device that's new. Previously we had the grease trap monitoring charge. It was a flow base charge based on on flows in working with Sean and his staff.

Q

We felt that it would be more Equitable to change it to an Interceptor device charge and charge based on a monthly charge, as opposed to a flow component. So that's where we've got recommended here next slide. Please um and then we've got the the same commercial flow rate categories, as we had last time, um they've been updated to reflect the the additional Revenue needs um again with the change being the the grease trap. uh Monitoring flow charges dropped off and it's been replaced by that Interceptor device charge next slide, please.

Q

um So with that, as Sean said, um the new rates are proposed to go into effect, January 9th of 2023, that's the start of the billing period, and then we would increase rates for the subsequent years, based on the first whole billing period in January of each calendar year.

Q

So with that, if you have any questions, I'm happy to try and address them.

A

I, don't see any oh, there is public hearing on this Mr Sims I have a question they have received. Well, first of all, do you have any anybody.

U

C

To speak public hearing, okay, so I'm going to.

A

Open the public well I'm not going to open it just yet. He has four online responses to the to the that he described to us before not specific, to which agenda item we're talking about. um No, no, no, no, they were they were in there. They sent responses in. So as we do, the public hearing do all should all four of those be included in in each one of these agenda items. There's three of them and.

O

They didn't tell you which one to apply to.

C

A

1, so I want to make sure we do this right.

C

Information rates.

A

Okay, we just read all four of them for all three items and just cover our bases. I.

O

Would read them? Well, it's brand new to me. I see one Wastewater I see three water. Okay, let's read one on what is that do read the Wastewater for the Wastewater and then read the the three others for the water and these people are they? Are they all here right now? Are they.

X

Not that I'm, aware of um they submitted these as an online comments.

O

um Well, the problem is the issue, is this is a public hearing these have to be? We have they've asked to be spoken, but we don't need to read them three times. Let's read them one for the water, one for Wastewater and then read the other three for what for, for one of the water increases.

A

We got two waters, so one Desert, Hills and Cave Creek, so well.

O

Wait are those are those the vitamin digitals in Cave Creek.

X

um Yeah well, actually, just we can assume, because the fact the location two of the locations are Phoenix addresses that are actually in Desert Hills. Well,.

O

Then read them for Desert Hills.

A

Okay, okay, so, first of all we're doing we're opening up the public hearing for again item number six, which is the Cave Creek Water Service Area. You have nobody there I.

B

A

So if you will read that one Sean, the the the Cave Creek Water, one.

X

Okay, so for Cave Creek Water, we uh received a comment from um Nancy Byrne at uh PO, Box uh 313, um and they were referring to a Cave, Creek or hookable. Twas uh trust. uh The rate three quarter inch size uh for this household was increased. Ten dollars in 2020.. The current billing for base rate is 6702. According to the rate increase flyer that was received, the increase is from the current rate of 56.85 to the proposed rate of 5704..

X

The bill here is already ten dollars more than the proposed rate increase. We can use six dollars in water or we can use six dollars in water use with the taxes and fees. Then the bill. uh The base added to the bill is over eighty dollars, considering that we have already paid ten dollars over the proposed increase.

A

Okay, so there's that one um do we know if anybody's online that wishes to talk to us on this.

W

A

Okay, thank you sir. So I will close public hearing at this time. We're back to council for a motion please, on the main Creek on the agenda item number six.

E

Most approved resolution r 2022-19, a resolution to the mayor and Town Council of the town of Cave Creek Maricopa, County, Arizona, adopting and amending the monthly service charges and uses charges for Water Service in the Cave Creek Water Service, Area usage.

F

E

F

E

Usage rates- excuse me after uh I'll, just read that uh sentence after adopting, adopting and amending the monthly service charges and usage rates for Water Service in the Cave Creek Water Service Area. Second, all right comment: I think it's a good study! It's unfortunate! This is very difficult, but you know they're. Just we have to pay for the water we use and there's just no getting around it.

G

But this has been going on, we've been studying it for years and it's it's necessary and the town is not making money on it. It's to cover expenses uh that have not been covered in the past and.

F

The prices for cap water will not go down either they're continuing to increase over the years so.

A

Hit electric to get it up here, it's not going.

F

A

All right so uh I guess we'll probably do a Voice vote on this one.

A

Yeah, please roll call, yeah, that's I'm. Sorry, roll call.

B

Council member Maguire, yes councilman, Vermont Aquino, yes,.

K

B

K

B

Council member Roy, yes, council, member Silva.

C

B

Vice mayor Smith, yes, mayor, Bunch,.

A

Yes, uh motion carry 7-0, sorry, folks, agenda item, number, seven discussion, accounts, discussion, approval of resolution, r 2022-20, a resolution of the mayor, Town Council, the town of Cave Creek, Maricopa, County, Arizona, adopting and amending the monthly service charges and usage rates for the Cave Creek Wastewater service.

A

um We've already seen the presentation.

A

Questions from Council will open up public hearing on this one.

B

A

Yes, he said never mind.

X

Sean, so we did receive uh one comment uh from Randy cook at 6083 East Knowles way. How can such a high percentage of increase be validated? I am a seasonal owner, and this is unfair.

A

Because we have to pay the bills even when you're, not here contributing close public hearing and we're back to council for motion, please sure.

J

Motion to approve resolution, r2022 hyphen 20., a resolution of the Marin Town Council, the town of Cave Creek Maricopa, County, Arizona, adopting and amending the monthly service charges and usage rates for the Cave Creek Water System Wastewater.

D

E

Mistake on that Wastewater Wastewater.

J

F

Last two words.

J

Wastewater system service clarify.

I

J

um My comment is that we, the town, has been subsidizing to a substantial agree, the Wastewater system for years. This is not going to totally eliminate that, but it's going to eat into it and slowly but surely reduce the uh the amount of uh subsidy to nothing at which time it may be that we've actually paid off the Wastewater system.

G

Comment, uh the increase is approximately twenty seven dollars per month, which is a lot. But when you consider from what I've heard John say tonight, we haven't had an increase in the Wastewater system for 13 years since 2009, which, when you apply one against the other, it would have come out to about a two dollar a month increase and not 27..

G

So I would suggest that future mayors councils would find it prudent to perhaps look at rate increases uh beyond the five years that we may approve tonight and not wait another eight years beyond that before doing more I think a person's budget can handle it better. If it's a smaller amount over more years and a lump sum at the end of 13 years,.

A

Don't look at me, I told you in the beginning of the meeting that I wasn't going to be here after two years from uh next year.

A

All right! Let's do a roll call on this as well.

B

Council member monakino, yes.

K

B

Member Morris aye councilmember Ray, yes, council, member Silva.

P

B

Vice mayor Smith, yes, councilmember McGuire, yes, mayor Bunch,.

A

uh Yes, uh Carey 7-0 gen item number: eight excuse me: Council discussion, approval of resolution, R 2022-21, the resolution of the mayor and Town Council, the town of King Creek, Maricopa, County, Arizona, adopting and amending the monthly service charges and usage rates for Water Service in the Desert Hills Water Service Area. Having already seen the presentation and the numbers, we will go directly to public hearing.

A

Nobody there, but you have two comments. There I believe for measure. Hills would.

X

You mayor uh first was from Marlene uh Volkman at 125, East Blue Ridge Lane. What is my current rate and what will the rate be increased? What will the rate uh be the increase for that one? Second, one is from Marlene Brock at uh 35911 North 7th Street Phoenix for the record I like to be known that we appreciate the opportunity to pay our fair share to maintain the high quality service and water source that Cave Creek has provided for Desert Hills Water company, rather than either selling it or setting it up as a self-managed.

X

We don't expect Cave Creek residents to Bear any additional burden due to the ownership of the Desert Hills Water Company.

P

I like that person, if.

A

We pass the electronic billboard, we could have yeah all right. I will now close public hearing.

A

And we'll go with the roll calling in. If we will let everybody be in trouble. We.

P

Need a reading of the motion.

A

Oh did we did we not.

P

A

P

I

A

Let's come back for a motion 17 and a half years. I still don't know what I'm doing. Please.

J

Try motion try to get this one right.

J

Okay uh motion to approve resolution, R 2022, hyphen 21, a resolution to the mayor and Town Council of the town of Cave Creek Maricopa, County, Arizona, adopting and amending the monthly service charges and usage rates for Water Service in the Desert Hills Water Service Area.

P

A

J

What we've said before this is a necessary and timely action.

G

Concur with the.

A

Vice uh okay: go ahead, the roll call. We can do it now because there's a motion in a second.

B

Council member Morris, aye councilmember Roy, yes, council, member Silva.

J

B

Masonry Smith, yes, councilmember McGuire! Yes, because remember my Aquino.

K

B

A

uh Yes, motion: Kerry 7-0. Thank you. Thank you. General agenda item number nine, which is Council discussion; approval of first reading of ordinance; 2022-09 an ordinance of the Marion Town Council of the town of Cave Creek Maricopa County Arizona, amending the town of Cave, Creek Town code; chapter 52, water, amending sections 52.001 and providing for severability Sean.

X

Aaron Council um we're gonna, pull up some slides here, Kevin will talk, but I don't have any uh lead installations, but really this is as part of the study that we we had. It was looking at utility rates and also capacity fees, so capacity fees are the fees that we charge for new um uh connections to our either uh the the two Water Systems Desert Hills, Water, System, Cave, Creek, Water Systems, or to the Wastewater system.

X

So, um uh as part of the report, we looked at it multiple ways: uh there's the buying capacity is sort of a hybrid capacity and Kevin can explain the difference there. But it's really. This is uh the goal is for new development to pay for the cost of the system that the town has as well as what's needed, to make sure that we can provide service that new connection. So with that I'll pass it on to Kevin, and he can explain the details that we proposed.

Q

All right thanks, Sean. Yes, this is a different animal than the the rates discussion that we just had. So if we can advance a couple of slides here, we'll get into the to the meat of this there we go um so as Sean said, these are are different than the rates, so these are one-time payments um at the usually at the time that a permit is issued.

Q

um It's for reinvestment or new investment in capital. That's going to benefit the new development, so it's for used up capacity uh associated with that new development, whereas the rates that we were discussing before um that funds, your repair and repair, repair and maintenance of the system, um the chemical costs staff time meter reads: meter Replacements. All that kind of thing that's taken care of through rates.

Q

um This is for the for the backbone infrastructure that has either been built before the new development comes in or in cases where uh additional infrastructure needs to be built in order to provide service to those new developments. So that's what we're looking at here.

Q

um It can be used for Debt Service um so to the extent that you've issued debt to to fund that new capital infrastructure that needs to be built. You can use um a capacity fees for that and there has to be a rational Nexus between the fee that is assessed and the service that's being provided. So we need to identify the cost of the capacity that is going to be benefiting that new development and that's the maximum that we can charge.

Q

You can charge anything up to that point, but you can't charge over and above that amount.

Q

um So we can't we can't look at what our neighbors are doing and deciding that our neighbors are 50 higher than us, so we want to be 45 percent higher than we currently are without doing the analysis to find out if that number can be supported, so we'll get into that in a little bit um when we start talking about the the comparison so next slide, please um so, as Sean alluded to, he mentioned a couple of different approaches to buying approach and the hybrid approach.

Q

um So what we used for um the the water system- The Cave, Creek, Water System- is what we're considering a hybrid approach, um so that looks at the Investments that have already been made into the system. So what have the existing rate payers? What is the existing development paid for in the system itself? That is going to be then used to um to provide service to to Future developments?

Q

So in looking at that, we look at what the total value of the system is, how much capacity can be served by said system a divided by B tells us um what the fee per capacity unit is that we can assess new development going forward so that they're buying into the system on the same playing field as those who have come before. The second approach that we often look at is an incremental approach. So it's a forward-looking approach.

Q

So, if Sean was to put together a five or 10 10-year Capital Improvement program that had a big list of capital projects that were needed to be done in order to serve new development, we could use that as the basis for calculating the fee. We would look at what the cost of that capital is going forward again, divided by the capacity that can be served by that new capital, and that would give us a unit cost that we would then charge to development.

Q

In the case of the Cave Creek Water System, we had some existing capacity in the existing system. Somebody else has paid for that existing system before new development comes but Sean also needed to construct some additional infrastructure in order to provide service for for the new development. So that's where it's a hybrid situation, where we're looking at both the existing investment and the additional investment that needs to be made into the system um in order to provide service.

Q

As we looked at the Desert Hills system and the Wastewater system, we didn't have any growth related Capital identified in the near future, so both of those fees were calculated based on on the buying approach and the Investments that's been made to date. So next slide please.

Q

So as we look at The Cave Creek Water capacity fee, so we've got the existing charges there. So the one inch meter, which is what the the typical meter size going forward, is anticipated to be it's currently at one 7628 dollars per one inch connection and the proposed maximum supportable fee is the 11 996 dollars. So again, that's the maximum that our our analysis can support uh at this point in time.

Q

Next slide, please, um on the desert Hillside, the current one inch meter is twelve thousand four hundred and eight um our maximum calculated is twenty four thousand three hundred twenty four, so council could adopt anything up to that 24 324 um dollar level.

Q

um So if we go to the next slide, we got some some comparisons here, um so you can see um where Cave Creek is currently it's in the the green bar and then the second green bar is Desert Hills current and then the the purple bars are the proposed for Cave Creek and Desert Hills. uh The one inch meter level you'll see some of them are just blue bars and then some are blue and red.

Q

So some of the entities that we looked at here made a distinction between the capacity fee for the water system itself and then a distinction for the Water Resource component that they charge. So in those cases, that's why there's a blue bar and a red bar in the cases where it's just a blue bar, it's all been commingled into into one fee. The other thing worth noting here is that both Phoenix and Peoria Peoria charge different rates for residential versus non-residential.

Q

So a one inch residential meter for Peoria and Phoenix is cheaper than a 1 inch meter for non-residential customers.

X

If I can jump in council's seen some repayment agreements through our IGA intergovernment agreement with the city of Phoenix, so we want to make sure that you saw those uh the the Phoenix North res non-residential areas. Those are some of the repayments. You've been seeing about twenty five thousand dollars, but in the same area in Phoenix they charge substantially less for a single family about 6 900.

X

So um in case you see, uh you've heard us because we've come back and done this four different repayment agreements, the larger fees you saw, because that was for the commercial development on the south uh West corner of Cave Creek, Cave, Creek, Road and Carefree Highway can.

E

You give us a quick explanation as to why that's according to state law, that they can do that. So.

Q

I was a little bit caught off guard when I saw this myself so I, dug into both the reports both for um Peoria and for for Phoenix, and an analysis was done where they compared um the average use for a single family connection. And then they looked at the average use for uh non-residential connection and the Delta between the two is what they used as the um the ratio to increase the rate for the non-residential meters.

E

That does not residential mean outside the Phoenix city limits, or does it mean a commercial business.

Q

A business, a commercial business.

T

X

I think in this case of Phoenix, when I read the report, it seems like they're factoring the fire flow for commercial demand. Typically, fire flow is a lot higher than a residential, so they were you're paying a large proportional share, especially at the Northern Area, the system where they had to expand the system to meet those fireflows right, Sean.

G

uh Question like, for example, Peoria Scottsdale Glendale are considerably less uh with the reason B I'm assuming it might be one of two reasons that those communities have a much higher population than we do so. Costs are spread over more households, more users. Secondly, uh I'm assuming they have a much higher du density per unit per acre than we do in our 38 square miles, and that's the reason ours, especially Desert Hills and seems out of whack with the dollar amounts there. Would this be a correct? Those.

X

Would be good on my part, those be good assumptions a little more detail, especially with my experience with Peoria in that um in in Northern Peoria. They break it down into different development zones, north and south of bell, Bell Road and East and West Seattle Faria, depending on where you are, and most of the periods more in the infill and then where it's going to be new growth. A lot of it's in large pad type of developments, the stancy development, 7, 400, acres and they're building the infrastructure necessary for themselves.

X

So they don't put a burden as much on the rest of the system because they're building the infrastructure that they're needing including a wastewater treatment plant and then uh so that's why I think the Peoria Scottsdale I think is similar and then Glendale again. Glendale is largely built out. They did have a differentiation between their eastern western areas, but their Western area was actually going to get water service from another utility.

G

But the fact our town is primarily single-family detached housing there'd be no need to break it down in quadrons or zone no.

X

That would be I, think it'd, add more confusion than necessary in the way we run the system. It's not I think appropriate. Thank you.

Q

All right next slide, please! um So then we've got the the Wastewater capacity fee. um So again the windings being the the standard meter size going forward, you're at 13 912 today and we've calculated that you could go up to 20 845.

Q

um So then, the next slide we don't have a comparison on waste water, so the next steps would be the second reading of the capacity fee, ordinance on December 5th um and then per state statute. New fees would be eligible to become effective, 30 days after um formal adoption by Council.

Q

So with that, if there are additional questions, I'm happy to answer them.

A

Council questions nope all right, there's public hearing on this one, we'll open public hearing.

B

No one wishing to speak.

A

We don't have any online things on this one either. So I will now close public hearing and we're back to council for a motion. Please I'll ask for a motion before I ask for a vote this time around.

G

A

G

Motion Mr Morris can make it whatever don't.

A

Fight over it guys it's his last.

E

Maybe your last chance.

G

uh Motion uh to approve first reading of ordinance: oh two: zero: two: two hyphen zero: nine, an ordinance of the mayor and Council of the town of Cave Creek Maricopa, County, Arizona, amending the town of Cave, Creek, Town code, chapter 32, water, amending sections 52.001 and providing for several ability.

E

G

Comment, the only comment would be. This is an item we've discussed at nauseum over years and we've had public input uh comments, so we need to do this.

I

I know you're looking at me.

A

Okay, no more comments from Council uh Let's. Do: let's do a roll call on this one as well.

B

Councilmember Ryan, yes, council, member Silva.

J

B

Vice mayor Smith, yes, councilmember, McGuire, yes councilmember, my Aquino.

K

B

Council member Morris, yes mayor Bunch,.

A

uh Yes, motion carries 6-1 agenda item number 10, which is Council discussion and approval of resolution, R 2022-22 the resolution of the mayor and Town Council, the town of Cave Creek Maricopa, County Arizona, approving a water shortage and drought management plan placed on the agenda by the utilities, director, bye, David, foreign.

X

Thank you. Mary Council got a couple quick slides for this, and then we've got Michelle Bank Wheaton who's available um online. uh To answer any questions, so we've had some discussions on this uh previously, so the goal tonight is and uh is to actually have Council adopt the document itself.

X

um There's no real meat to it yet, but this would give us the guidance to actually move forward and propose some town code changes which we could come back and that wouldn't give us the meet that we desire.

X

I can do this today. Next slide, Brian.

X

Okay, quick summary of the town's Water Resources, so in Cave Creek we rely uh exclusively right now on our central Arizona project, Water Supplies, once the transfer to uh Carefree occurs, our Municipal and Industrial allocation will be 2280 and 2 28 acre feet. We do have some groundwater Wells we've been investigating uh whether we can bring it back online, but at this point physically they are not connected to the system and we don't have physical access to them.

X

Desert Hills uh on the opposite, does actually have three groundwater Wells, which provide water out in that system, but they're not adequate to provide the needs, so the Desert Hills actually relies on the portion of the town's Municipal Industrial Supplies, but in this last uh 18 months we were actually able to secure some non-indian agricultural water for Desert Hills.

X

Ironically, it leads into the fact that, with these tiered shortages on the Colorado River the while we have now had the municipal industrial wash by 18 months this upcoming year, they've asked us to actually cut that back by 25.

X

So it's it's not as secure as Municipal industrial supplies, and at this point we haven't seen anything in the next few years that will impact the municipal Industrial Supplies, although we actually have heard from Essentials on our project and the Arizona Department of Water Resources, on whether we're willing to give back a portion of our allocation that we're not utilizing. So those discussions are ongoing.

X

um One thing that the town has adopted in 2021, we adopted the Water Resource policy. That was an update from the 2017 policy and that really addressed two big things. It looked at the long-term sustainability of the town's water resources and really looked at the transfer water that we're sending out to Desert Hills and and made the distinction the hard decision that we can no longer allow for new connections.

S

X

In the Desert Hills area, unless it's contracts to their statutory obligation, so that's been in place since December of last year and that has limited the uh the new connections, not the growth out, Desert Hills, because it's outside of Municipal boundaries. We can't control that growth, but it has limited the number of new water connections to the system out there.

E

Sean before you proceed you, you zip past that part about there's discussions on limiting more of our water they met. We will need to take very close consideration on that. It's going to be a uh specialist voluntary I mean it may affect us into the future. We have to really consider what the long-term impact is on that yeah.

X

I was just notified and let Council know that from adwr they've asked us uh as a what as a subcontract holder with Central General project.

X

um They've, asked all the subcontractors, uh if they're willing to give back some of the water and there's actually potentially some Financial benefit to the the town per acre foot for next year. To help with the the ongoing.

E

So it's a temporary because I'm thinking of that water meter, that's reading 11 percent yeah.

X

Yeah this is a this, is sort of a short-term solution to try and balance the water so that if people like the town right now we're not using all of our Central layers on our project allocation. uh If, instead of us taking it all and recharging it, it would be, the thought would be we'd give some of it back potentially compensated for so that water doesn't have to be taken off the river and transferred between the reservoirs. So it's it's part of a balancing act and it's something that again I.

X

Just I was just notified of a week a week and a half ago about this as an opportunity for us and see if we want to participate in that moving forward. But it does show that uh the the you know we're next slide right. You know we're 23 years into a drought situation here. So it's something, there's some hard decisions being uh made, and that's one of the reasons that we wanted to update the water, storage and drought management plan.

X

um The town code requires us to have a drought management plan. uh When I first came on board in 2019, uh the Water advisory committee worked on a plan. It didn't come back to council and we didn't do the modifications requiring a town code to actually add teeth to it. So the goal here is um to to use this as a guiding documents. Come back with councils with the town code revisions to allow us to enforce that, um and some other things that are changing. As you know, again, our physical infrastructure has changed.

X

We've we've lost 550 accounts in the pipelines associated with that we've lost some of the cap allocation that was water set aside to both uh currently uh support the Carefree uh customers on the connections and system and allow for their future growth out there. So we lost a 386 acre feet, so this is allows us to look at this all in total. Again next slide Brian and in addition to that, the cap last year did notify. uh Last year was the first year of a tiered shortage on the central Arizona project.

X

So, while we're 22 years into drug condition because of the Water Management that the state's done for the 22 years prior to that, we they did not ever have to to do a tiered shortage, so it shows I, think good, Water, Resource Management on on the state level and when central Arizona project so but moving forward. uh You know I'm, looking at our projections or hearing about projections for the next five years, that you know, there's going to be more hardship to come more hard decisions to make. So it's something for us to consider.

X

So it's another reason why it's good for us to to take the time and update this document foreign. So on August. uh Fourth, we actually had a discussion with Council about this document, uh because staff times we weren't able to get back to you until November 9th, uh but we presented the draft plan um at that time. um We thought they tied better back to the town's broader resources and infrastructure.

X

We outlined five levels of demand reduction strategies that are more unique uh for the town, they're, not tired, tied specifically back to a cap, um uh tiered reduction notice because we're not using all of our cap allocation right now we're looking at this as sort of short-term plus long term, but we came up with a proposal that would allow us to do almost a formula base where we're going to project out for the following year.

X

Look at our demands right now and then see if again, if we're being told to cut our allocation, where that would mean, and what that would mean to the town specifically, so it takes into account any tiered shortages that are being declared, but it makes it Cave, Creek specific, which I think is unique for us and I. Think it's a good way for us to look at our Water Resources moving forward. We do provide options for how to reduce our Municipal, residential and Commercial demands.

X

I'll, be honest. Municipal demands we're not that much our one of our highest water users is our wastewater treatment plant I'm working with staff on actually how to optimize that that plant down there residential demands close to 90 percent I- think it's 85 percent of our customer base is residential in the town. So if we can get uh our customers through education to start reducing, that's our best bang for our dollar overall for our Water Resource water budget, and then uh with the plan, we are proposing some new violation, water uh warnings and surcharges.

X

So surcharges is just that we don't have the ability right now without coming back to council uh outside of the rates say that we just did uh the goal be within town code to actually put in some teeth that allows us to charge people if we're into a shortage situation and people are not reducing their water usage right now, above 30 000 gallons, we have the five or eight tiers, but we're saying we'll actually put some surcharges in place that if, if it gets severe enough, we really need those large water users to cut back um and and financial implications are one way uh we actually have talked about in the plan, and we have to figure out how to put that in codes is to go back to potentially doing water restrictions.

X

What that means is potentially going to someone's water meter and put an orifice plate on it that restricts the amount of water that they can use. um So those are, those are I hope we don't go that direction, but we need to have those tools in our tool kit, as we move forward to manage towns, Water Resources.

X

Next slide Brian, so right now, we've made some cleanup effort exercises to it to the document itself. Remove the draft from it did some other things, um but uh it's really. uh The document you have in your package tonight is what we're proposing as the final document, we're actually hoping that you agree. That's a good document um and then the next episode I'll be working with Michelle and also Bill.

T

X

Come back with code revisions as we move forward which got to go through the code revision ordinance process. So with that I can answer any questions and the interaction tonight is just to adopt this. uh The resolution was, which is adopting the plan itself um and we'll be coming back later, with the ordinances.

A

Question from Council.

C

K

Aquino, thank you.

I

um Sean in the possibility that we would be limited.

K

I

um We have a number of Wells that are not operational, I, don't remember in the CIP. Is there a plan to repair these so that we we could use them.

X

Not currently in the CIP, what we actually had in this year's CIP was to do some evaluation. So we've done the initial evaluation of of six of the wells. We did a paper study of all the wells um in Cave Creek, which was how much water is adwr say they have available to us.

X

We actually made a a decision looking at physically, where they're placed in the system, which ones might be viable, and we looked at six of the casings and did an initial evaluation where we actually dropped a camera down them to see the condition the next step- and we saw some dollars this year- would be to clean those casings and then do a second assessment. Most of them were had been unused for so long.

X

There's a lot of circulation and other things in there, but I think there's, probably four that we can look at to clean up and then potentially uh the final step would be a pump test and verify how much how much of a yield we can get out of them. So we are working that process with the integrated master plan which I'm coming back to council.

X

Probably in a couple of meetings with the award of that contract that'll be something that we do look at, but right now, none of the none of the walls are physically connected to the system, to the point that we can use them um prior to even the town buying the system. Most of the wells actually didn't tie directly into the distribution system. There was a it used to be a parallel, well raw water, well, lines that were run through the system.

X

A number of those lines have been broken, but the wells were being brought together and brought at one point to the water treatment plant for some isolated treatment for arsenic mitigation, as well as something to use as water. That can supplement our uh the contractual obligations to Rancho mini on a golf course. So those are things that we I like to look at moving forward.

I

Thank you mayor, that's my last question.

C

Anybody else no.

F

I'll make a motion.

A

F

A

um Actually, there's public comment.

D

But David left right.

A

Right, oh well, come on up Dusty by the way I want to tell both of you. Thank you for coming to meetings for the last couple of months, I appreciate your.

T

I apologize I wasn't able to make the last Wednesday meeting. Unfortunately, I have some I had some other commitments that I couldn't get out.

A

Of you know, it's.

T

The way it works, we'll Overlook, it I'm sure you will Dusty Rhodes 41403 North Old, Stage, Road, Cave Creek. um It's great that we're talking about doing the wells. I've also mentioned Sean. What we need to do probably next year, if, when we work on the budget at a hydrographic survey, find out how much water we have in the aquifer here that we can tap into probably not have to do it next year, but probably we'll have to do that a couple years from now. If we continue having that shortage, just a suggestion.

T

D

A

Okay, no more! We are back to council for a motion. Please I. Actually anybody want to Michelle's sitting there. Everybody want to ask for something, so she.

F

Well, I guess: I could just make a comment and Michelle can respond if she wants, uh if we, if we do tap into our wells in Cave Creek, we'll jeopardize our ability to to bank water. So that's a consideration in the future. You know, given the fact that we might not have any water to bank, you know we might want to more seriously consider it, but we all need to be aware that that's that's a factor. Thank you. If.

I

F

I

F

Had resolved that we did in Cave Creek, we did and that's why we're able to bank water now. But if we choose to take water out of a well in the future, we will not be able to bank water again. Okay,.

U

Right forever, Michelle, or is that um no I think that the idea behind the wells is that there could be severe water shortages in our future and if it comes to the point where you're asking residents to cut their actual water use significantly, the first thing that those customers are going to want to know is well can't you just turn on the well, so I think the town needs to be in a position to answer that question before that happens.

U

You know if that is a good backup, Supply, but I think it would be more of an emergency supply. It wouldn't be something that you just turn on and leave on and I. Don't think that the Hydrographics or hydrologic survey would show that the groundwater condition is very good. I mean we've had a number of of hydro studies in that area for many years, and it's not that good. It would be more of an emergency sort of supply.

X

Yeah, if I could use that, if I could just add the the situation, we're in right now um is that the town, because we aren't using the world, we aren't withdrawing groundwater of the townhouse of groundwater right right now, that is allowing us to do uh um recharge of our excess cap water and generate long-term storage credits for the town.

X

If we start using the wells, then we run into what's called water bud, so we actually have to we'd have to actually replenish the groundwater first before we can get generate long-term storage credits and that's what I think the council member was referring to. So there are legal things that we need to consider with the town's water resources and our water balance.

X

C

A

Well, I guess at this point we're back to council for a motion. Please I'll.

F

Make the motion.

A

How about one of these people who's.

C

Not going to be here anybody down here.

A

Feel left out tonight go ahead.

F

Motion to approve resolution r 2022-22, a resolution of the mayor and Town Council of the town of Cave Creek Maricopa, County Arizona, approving a water shortage and drought management plan.

P

A

You know Tom seconded ah okay, you had you.

F

Had the motioning comments on that I'm thrilled that we got this accomplished and I appreciate all the effort of both Sean and Michelle to get it done and.

A

Now we got to go to the taxidermist and put some stuff in inside it. The beginning.

F

That we needed there, you go Tommy.

A

P

Gotta go there.

A

Can't hear you anyway, okay, thank you. Yeah.

P

We've got to go there.

A

All those in favor of the motion signify by saying aye.

P

A

Well, it looked like it carried I'm. All in opposed. Nobody's opposed motion carries seven zero. Now, since this is my last meeting to sit in the middle thing, I'm going to do something that I've never done before motion to adjourn.

A