►
From YouTube: CHAOSS Asia Pacific Community Call November 2, 2022
Description
Links to minutes from this meeting are on https://chaoss.community/participate.
A
So
thanks
for
whoever
put
together
the
minutes,
Shaya
was
that
you
yeah,
thank
you.
I
was
running
late
today,
so
I
was
like
oh
I
have
to
get
something
on
the
minutes
and
then
I
look
and
there's
stuff
there.
So
thank
you
for
that.
Do
you
wanna.
Do
you
want
to
lead
us
a
little
bit
today?
Shoya
that'd
be
great.
Okay,.
B
Okay
yeah,
so
the
first
topic
is,
as
we've
discussed
before,
like
should
we
move
this
call
like
a
couple
of
hours
earlier
and
I.
Think
one
of
the
thought
is
maybe
try
to
spin
the
Asia
Pacific
Community
by
itself.
I'm,
not
sure,
but
especially
as
Liana
has
mentioned,
that
unlike
countries
like
Japan,
it's
especially
late
for
them,
because
they
are
even
one
hour
later
so
I'm.
B
Thinking
of
maybe
we
should
at
least
move
this
forward
for
two
hours,
because
I
think
for
next
meeting
is
it
comes
to
the
daylight
savings
and
it
will
be
one
hour
yeah.
B
C
B
Means
that
means,
if
we
want
to
make
it
friendlier
for
like
folks
in
Japan,
we
want
to
move
it
even
more
early.
A
I
also
had
put
in
here-
it's
I,
don't
know
what
you
think
about
everybody
on
this
call,
but
you
know
really
everybody
that
attends
the
Asia
Pacific
College
from
China.
So
perhaps
we
run
the
Asia
Pacific
meeting
in
Chinese
to
start
I.
Don't
it's
just
a
thought.
C
F
A
A
B
So
I
always
set
out
like
to
move
it
two
hours
earlier.
A
C
E
And
eight
eight
a.m:
8
P.M.
C
E
B
F
C
A
C
I
think
Jerry
said
it
was
eight
that
makes
it
8
P.M,
okay,
so
but
I'm
suggesting,
if
you
want
it
to
be
even
earlier,
we
can
that's
an
hour
earlier.
Yep,
8,
PM
still
sounds
kind
of
late
to
me
to
be
doing
some.
F
C
A
B
B
I
want
to
make
sure
is
if
I
want
to
record
the
meeting.
B
B
A
B
We
we
don't
meet
every
week,
but
things
Ruthie
and
I
are
working
on
the
handbook.
So
we
sometimes
we
think
on
that,
but
not
the
community
stuff.
Okay,.
B
A
B
B
Yeah
and
yes,
I
think
that
could
be
I
think,
together
with
Ruth.
B
And
so,
if,
if
any,
everyone
is
okay
with
this
schedule,
another
thing
I'm
thinking
about,
especially
this
chaos,
Asia
Pacific,
bi-weekly,
meeting
I'm
wondering
if
we
can
like
build
some
connection
with
the
to
do
Asia
Pacific,
that's
the
monthly
call,
but
maybe
we
can
like
I
wrote
like
I
wrote
here.
Maybe
we
can
alternate
the
core
with
that
to
do
call
and.
B
B
It's
it's
3
P.M,
my
time
so,
but
I
think
we
can
I
haven't
talked
about
this
with
Anna,
but
I
think
we
can
coordinate
on
that
questions.
A
So
I
I
really
like
this
idea.
For
those
of
you
that
don't
know
the
to-do
group
is
a
is
a
Linux
Foundation,
open
source
project
that
really
focuses
on
open
source
program
offices
and
we
we
meeting
the
chaos
project,
have
recently
joined
the
to
do
group
as
a
associate
member.
So
if
you
go
to
the
there's,
I
think
six
associate
member
projects
right
now
with
the
to-do
group
and
as
part
of
that
collaboration,
we
are
having
an
ospo
working
group
that
meets
on
Thursdays.
A
It
wouldn't
be
a
time,
that's
convenient
for
you
all,
but
it
meets
on
Thursdays
every
other
week
to
talk
about
metrics
and
metrics
models
that
are
relevant
to
open
source
program
offices,
and
so
that's
the
combination
that
we
have
right
now
with
the
to
do
group
and
if
sure,
if
you
could
make
a
connection
with
Anna
and
I,
can
help
with
that
as
well
on
to
do
group
Asia
Pacific.
That
would
be.
That
would
be
amazing.
B
Okay,
they
thought,
because
oh
one
thought
is
it's
just
my
personal
feeling,
but
I
kind
of
feel
that
there
is
a
considerable
amount
of
interests
found
like
comes
from
the
Asia
Pacific
is
from
folks
comes
from
the
hospital
in
this
region.
Just
like
folks
on
this
call.
Don't.
A
B
I
haven't
talked
about
this
with
her,
but
I
can
send
her
an
email
and
CCU.
C
Okay,
I
I
also
know
from
before
the
before
times
as
we
called
them
in
the
United
States
before
the
pandemic.
When
I
went
to
the
Linux
Foundation
was
it
called?
The
security
was
a
security
Summit.
There
was
a
open
source
Summit
in
Japan
in
December
of
every
year
and
I
opened
compliance.
The
open
compliance,
Summit,
yeah
and
I
met
I.
Think
I
may
have
met
some
of
y'all
at
that
conference,
one
year
or
another.
C
There
was
a
certainly
a
good
representation
from
both
China
and
Japan
and
other
are
your
Asian
Pacific
Nations,
and
even
this
year
this
is
the
first
year
they're
trying
to
do
it
in
person,
but
I
still
think
there's
difficulty
getting
into
Japan
and
possibly
difficulty
getting
out
of
some
countries
as
well.
C
So
I
think
some
of
the
feeling,
bad
that
you
may
have
probably
just
arises
from
the
fact
that
we
never
see
each
other
right
now
like
or
hardly
ever
see
each
other
because
of
the
restrictions
that
are
widely
faced
and
the
asia-pacific
region
certainly
been
hit
harder
and
has
there
has
the
population
more
densely
packed
together,
which
affects
the
communicability
so
like
you're,
we're
doing
I
think
you're
doing?
This
is
going
great
in
the
context
of
the
fact
that
people
still
can't
travel
freely
and
from
what
I
saw
at
the
compliance
Summit.
D
D
F
C
It's
been,
it's
been
in
Japan
on
December
7th
before
and
for
me
as
an
American
one
time,
I
was
so
jet-lagged
I
I
wanted
to
go
looking
for
the
Pearl
Harbor
site,
realizing
it
was
on.
It
was
not
in
Japan.
D
And
maybe
so
I'm
not
sure
I
can
go
there,
so
it
it
depends
on
the
the
pandemic.
You
know
yeah
no.
A
So
King
I
do
think
you
bring
up
a
nice
Point
too
I
I
I,
don't
I
thought
about
the
whoops
I've
thought
about
the
hold
on
I.
Think
Elizabeth
just
came
in
I've
thought
about
the
open
compliance
group
and
the
work
that
Shane
is
doing
as
well
and
I'm.
C
D
So
you
know
I
I
have
idea,
so
it
can
be
connect
the
chaos
and
the
open
chain,
the
lessons
compliance
project.
You
know
so
because
the
chaos
is
the
metrics
of
the
community
health.
You
know,
of
course,
the
complaints.
Lessons
complex
is
very
important
in
the
the
open
source
Community,
it
is
lack
the
open
ssf.
You
know
the
security,
the
theater
area.
B
D
Know
area,
so
you
know
now
in
the
in
the
market
there
are,
there
are
a
lot
of
the
I
say
two
students,
you
know
the
the
it
can
be
scanned
the
code
and
it
come
out.
It
generates
the
January
to
the
license
risk.
You
know
and
I
I
saw
the
the
chaos
has
the
metrics
Matrix.
D
On
the
license,
for
example,
the
fire
license
yeah,
we
can
announcement
the
pair
license.
You
know
so
I
think
we
can
call
collaborate
with
the
the
company,
like
the
flight
back
for
society
under
the
scan
of
the
essay
tools.
So
so
we
can.
We
can
call
the
API
after
the
sky,
at
the
show
on
our
dashboard.
So
you
know
the
airway
has
two
has
to
make
the
plan
and
and
put
the
license
in
the
metric
model
in
the
productivity
yeah.
C
You
know
we
have
augers
I
made
several
auger
presentations
at
the
compliance
Summit
about
our
license
scanning,
which
is
based
on
a
project
that
happened
at
Nebraska
Omaha,
probably
10
years
ago.
C
Now,
where
it
produces
it,
we
were
able
to
produce
an
s-bomb
with
an
older
version
of
spdx
in
auger,
and
so
that's
one
of
the
things
that
we
we
do
and
I
I
can
certainly
put
you
in
touch
with
Matt
Cantu
and
myself
to
to
show
you
what
how
we're
doing
it,
we're
using
the
Nomo
scanner
from
so
from
open
chain
or
openstack
or
fossology.
B
D
Scan
code,
it's
also
the
open
source
tool,
yeah.
D
D
There
are
also
some
that
a
Commerce
company
to
supply
the
electrical
like
the
black
dog
Society
scandals-
scandals
is
a
Spanish
company.
It
can
be
of
they
are,
they
are
also
the
sa2s
we
can
connect
with
them.
You
know
the
scandals,
the
scanners
is
I,
say
a
and
OSS
it's
kind
of
see
the
first
open
source
commercial
tools.
You
know
in
the
world,
so
the
scandals
have
established
a
stf
software
transparency
foundation
in
the
Europe,
and
we
also
joined
that
the
foundation
I
think
we
can
talk
with
the
foundation.
Stf
Foundation.
You
know.
F
F
F
C
D
D
D
The
the
city
CEO
of
the
the
company
I
know
his
name
is
Alan,
please
he
is
a
previous
day
working
in
the
black.
You
know
and
I
familiar
with
the
CTO
of
the
scanners
yeah.
If
you
have
any,
if
I
had,
if
you
have
any
requirements,
I
can
I
can
link
you
under
the
scandals
and
all
of
the
stf.
You
know
yeah.
A
If
I
was
to
bring
up,
this
is
the
current
Associates
in
the
to-do
group,
so
I'm
wondering
if
at
the
member
Summit,
we
should
have
a
conversation
about
how
the
associates
can
work
together
to
help
Foster.
What
the
to-do
group
is
trying
to
accomplish.
So
particularly
chaos
and
open
chain
I
think
there's
a
Clear
Connection
there
I
think
chaos
and
open
ssf.
There's
a
Clear
Connection
there
as
well
I
know
that
the
Finos
group
Sean.
This
is
an
email
that
you
were
on
recently
I.
A
C
Yeah
I
had
some
questions
in
my
response.
Email,
I,
don't
know
what
ESOP
is
off
the
top
of
my
head
either.
D
A
A
Yes,
I
think
maybe
we
should
think
about
like
how
not
just
from
a
this
is
also
for
you,
like
around
the
to
do
group
like
how
not
just
chaos
works
with
the
to
do
group
as
an
associate,
but
how
the
associates
can
help
work
together
in
in
the
to-do
group
overall,
so
that
we
can
assist
the
work
that
openchain
is
doing.
Openssf
can
assist
the
work
that
we're
as
an
example
that
we
can
kind
of
assist
each
other
I'll
talk
to
Anna
about
that.
That's
interesting.
D
Yeah,
you
know
I
I'm
in
the
open
chain,
the
Open
Access
app,
the
open
chin
and
the
open
SF
work
group
are
also
talking
about
the
same
same
thing.
You
know
right.
A
C
Wheeler
Dave
wheeler
is
our
my
big
Insight
provider
into
that
Community.
Okay,.
B
I
just
want
to
mention
a
thing
I
observed
is
open.
Channel
is
doing
a
great
job
like
promoting
like
sending
all
the
notifications
and
all
the
promoting
works
in
the
to
do
in
the
slack
of
to-do
group,
and
they
have
a
channel
named
Osco
compliance,
so
maybe
yeah.
We
also
need
a
channel
named
Osco
Matrix.
That's.
C
There
was
actually
a
discussion
and
I
think
I
haven't
mentioned
this
in
this
group
at
a
aspo.
Con
live
meeting.
I
was
in
at
Stockholm
in
two
weeks
two
weeks
ago,
where
there's
a
movement
in
some
organizations
to
move
the
S
diaspo
into
under
the
see
the
CSO
or
the
security
officer
instead
of
the
CTO,
the
technology
officer
and
there's
Summers.
C
For
these
reasons
that
you're
you're
discussing
around
around
these
issues
and
and
there's
resistance
from
developers,
they
want
to
be
part
of
the
CTO
which
they
regard
as
cool
and
they
regard
the
CSO
as
they're
the
security
Assurance
organization
as
less
cool.
So
there's
a
there's,
a
developer,
at
least
in
the
European
and
North
American
cultures.
There's
this
developer
lack
of
desire
to
be
under
the
security
organization
for
what
that's
worth.
A
All
right,
this
is
a
good
conversation.
Thank
you.
E
Sorry
I
may
I
give
you
a
comments.
Discussion
I
suddenly
reminded
that
think
of
the
risk
working
group
in
our
chaos
Community,
because
it's
all
about
compliance
and
and
the
security
things
yes.
C
C
C
In
fact,
I
helped
coordinate
that
working
group
and
we
meet
at
one
o'clock,
P.M
Central
Time
on
Thursdays,
and
that
that
working
group
is
actually
we've
been
discussing.
Lately,
compliance
security
scanning
relationship
to
ossf
and
and
all
the
the
same
kinds
of
topics,
but
in
much
more
depth
than
we're
able
to
get
you
to
here.
We
spent
we
probably
spent
a
year
working
through
the
complexities
of
how
to
describe
software
dependencies,
for
example,
because
it
turns
out
those
are
a
lot
more
complicated
than
you
might
think.
E
A
A
cold
for
about
a
week
but
I
think
that
these
communities
like
open
chain
and
open
ssf
are
very
amenable
or
very
willing
to
to
kind
of
take
a
look
at
the
work
that
we're
doing
and
recognize
that
work
as
well.
Around
metrics
and
metrics
models.
B
Yeah
I
think
there
are.
There
are
a
lot
of
potential
connections
we
need
to
build
because
there
are
a
lot
of
works
overlapped
with
each
other.
A
A
A
You
know
like
at
a
high
level,
look
like
we're
coordinating,
and
we
also
wanted
to
make
sure
that
we
weren't
that
we
had
members
from
their
communities
joining
chaos
as
well,
that
it
wasn't
just
chaos,
members
going
to
all
the
open
chain
meetings
and
Chaos
members
going
to
all
the
open
ssf
meetings
and
Chaos
members
going
to
all
these
other
media
that
we
that
we.
A
C
And
that's
like
auger
uses
tools
from
us
ossf
like
their
scorecard,
for
example,
so
they
they're
really
these
groups
build
tools
that
are
targeted
to
specific
needs
and
they
may
they're
pretty
easy
to
implement
as
part
of
like
a
metrics
model
system,
as
somebody
suggested
earlier,
you
basically
just
drop
the
code
in
and
wrap
it
in
whatever
language
you're
writing
your
code
in
because
it's
written
in,
go
and
and
go.
D
Yeah
so
I
I
heard
of
this
go-kart
is
a
move
very
fast.
Yes
and
it
almost
gets
to
Arrow
it
I
I
will
I
will
eat
the
more
than
one
thousand
program.
You
know,
yeah
projecting
you
know
you
make
it
happen.
You
know
it's,
it's
it's
go
very
fast,
so
we
will
adopt
the
scorecard
in
our
community
open
source
Community.
You
know.
C
Yeah,
it
they're
adding
things
to
it.
Yeah,
it's
an
extremely
fast
moving
software
project.
C
B
C
B
E
Actually,
our
matrix
model,
we
have
similar
Solutions
and
our
advantage
is
that
we
have
to
endanger
to
to
trace
to
trace
the
all
the
changes,
not
just
the
snapshot
of
the
of
the
current
status
of
441
project.
So
I
think
we
can
learn
from
each
other
agreed.
B
B
Topic
is
the
the
hospital
Summit
app
pack
is
initiated
in
China
by
the
lynx.
Foundation
impact
actually
I,
don't
know
much
about
Lenny's
Foundation
attack
I'm,
not
sure.
If,
if
is
this,
is
this
an
organizational
Community
but
well
they
are
the
the
map,
the
community
members
from
this
group.
They
are
thinking
of
Matt.
C
B
Yeah
and
I
I,
don't
I,
don't
think
this
also
submit
is
like
initiates
by
the
official
links
Foundation
because
they
are
kind
of
still
talking
about
this,
but
but,
but
they
have
reached
out
to
me
like
they
want
to
get
support
from
chaos.
B
The
chaos
community,
so
it's
kind
of
so
I
just
want
to
think
think
with
you
guys
about
this
event,
and
it's
just
like
it
will
have
the
community
logo
Exposed
on
the
poster,
and
also
it
will
be
even
great,
if,
like
folks
from
the
community,
will
give
like
one
or
more
talks
on
that
event,
but
if
I
can
make
it
I
I
will
also
attend
to
that
event.
B
B
It's
also
I
think
the
community
members
from
Chinese
will
know
that
this
initiated
by
jianshun.
B
So
this
is
just
an
open
call
that
there
is
another
on
Hospital
related
events
that
will
hope
for
hopefully
happen
in
China
at
the
end
of
this
year
and
Chaos
will
be
one
of
the
like.
This
support,
supportive
organizations.
A
So
interesting,
I
I,
don't
I,
put
that
link
to
the
face
like
starting
at
the
top
I
put
that
link
to
the
Facebook
page
for
Linux
Foundation
Asia
Pacific
in
the
chat
I
didn't
see
anything
on
the
official
like
Linux
Foundation
site,
so
I'm
not
quite
sure
what.
D
D
Yeah
yeah
yeah
yeah
the
output
and
enters
the
Enterprise,
the
different
Enterprise
this
time
last
year.
It
goes
into
the
Huawei
you
know,
and
this
even
to
maybe
hold
is
even
maybe
hold
on
December
2nd,
you
know,
and
so
they
invite
me
to
have
the
speech
and
that's
the
email
so
I
don't
know
how?
How
can
we?
How
can
we
connect
with
with
this
is
the
organization
so
I'm.
E
B
Yeah,
what
Junction,
what
he
needed
now
is
just
like
a
brand
exposure
on
the
poster,
but
we
can
have
more
like
folks
from
the
Asia
Pacific,
especially
in
China,
if
anyone
who
are
interested
and
who
can
make
it
it's
even
great,
to
give
some
talks.
D
A
B
Know
yeah:
that
would
be
great
they.
They
will
like
this
event
to
be
in
person,
but
it
might
be
difficult,
so
I
will
keep
you
guys,
updated
yeah.
C
B
Okay,
so
so
the
last
topic
is,
we
still
have
several
minutes,
so
I
want
to
discuss
like
the
potential
paths
for
newcomers
that
are
interested
in
the
shop,
chaos,
Asia,
Pacific
Community,
and
how
we
can
make
the
make
them
like
onboarding
smoothly,
and
what
are
the
the
contribution
errors
that
they
can.
We
can
let
them
onto
that
that
those
tasks
and
finally,
they
can
really
be
conversed
into
a
chaos.
Member.
B
To
several
of
them,
like
translation
and
organizing
events
and
doing
some
Outreach
work
and
speak
speak
out
on
other
events,
and
also
there
is
a
what
one
of
the
main
thing
I
know:
Yahweh
is
working
on
his
metrics
model
and
also
the
compass
platform.
B
That's
also
the
contribution
area
and
also
once
we
build
the
connection
with
with
to
do
group.
We
can
definitely
have
this
also
related
topic
and
also
I.
Don't
know
why
I
list
this
here.
B
Maybe
it's
appeared
on
a
lot
of
Clans,
so
it's
just
and
I,
don't
I'm,
not
sure
how
things
are
going
with
the
project
patching,
but
if
there
are
like
reviewers
for
project
badging,
if
we
need
reviewers,
we
can
probably
also
involve
the
newcomers
to
become
the
reviewers
and
also
we
can
promote
more
and
more
projects
from
Asia
Pacific
to
obtain
the
badges.
C
A
Good
I'm
wondering
for
for
folks
in
in
China
I
mean
it.
It
seems
like
there's
a
variety
of
different
people
who
want
to
join
so
like
up
until
this
point
we've
been
talking
a
lot
about,
say,
open
source
program
offices
and
connecting
like
open,
ssf
and
chaos
and
open
chain
like
those
are.
Those
are
pretty
deep
conversations
for
a
newcomer
to
be
involved.
A
You
would
have
to
kind
of
understand
the
landscape
of
Open,
Source
and
so
I
mean
that's
possible
that
that
we
need
to
think
about
paths
for
folks
from
open
source
program
offices,
for
example,
to
join
in
the
conversation
of
chaos
there
there
are
also
I
would
imagine
in
China's,
students
who
want
to
participate
in
open
source
projects
and
like
getting
involved
in
in
things
like
the
to
do.
Group
might
just
be
a
little
too
much.
Yeah
I
think
there's
a
lot
to
take
in
on
that.
Is
it
right?
A
A
Open
source-
and
so
we
have-
and
they
may
want
to
join
from
like
technology
development
perspective,
they
may
want
to
join
from
a
documentation
perspective.
It's
so
we
might
want
to
think
about
what
those
paths
are
for
for
the
different
roles
that
we
have
and
the
different
ways
that
people
could
could
participate.
F
So
my
feeling
is
for
students.
If
we
can
assign
some
tasks
to
them,
they
will
be.
It
will
be
easier
for
them
to
join,
for
example,
the
translation
tasks
they
can
work
very
fast
and
then
know
what
to
do.
And
now
you
can
see
my
student
just
joined
and
leave
the
conversation
this
night
and
probably
I
think
it's
because
she
does
not
know
what
what
to
do
here.
A
It
looks
like
in
the
chat:
that's
what
that's
what
chaos
Africa
is
doing
as
well
just
kind
of
assigning
clear
tasks
to
newcomers
from
Africa.
So
do
you
think
that
the
students
are
interested
in
in
technical
tasks,
or
do
you
think
it's
it's
just
to
get
involved
in
open
source?
F
F
E
Think
if
we
have
a
chance
to
give
to
provide
good
enough
data,
I
mean
the
real
world
Community
data
to
to
our
students
and
professors
and
that
thing
focused
on
the
people's
behaviors
in
the
community.
They
create.
They
would
create
more
values
for
for
our
communities,
because
I
think
this
is
their
professional
way
to
do
it
in
in
the
University
I
think
we
can
reuse
or
utilize
their
capability
about
this
area
to
help
us
to
build
more
meaningful
metrics
model
and
metrics,
and
even
the
mechanism
and
behind
those
Matrix
models.
A
So
what
if
we
ran
I
put
something
in
the
minutes
listening
to
both
of
you
talk,
something
like
a
when
you
say,
provide
students
with
meaningful
data.
A
Would
it
be
about
kind
of
asking
the
students
to
tell
stories
from
that
data
what
they
could
understand
from
a
health
perspective,
so
I'm
thinking?
Maybe
we
could
run.
A
E
That
then,
Trace
up
those
communities
at
the
whole
life
cycles,
also
including
some
even
specific
things-
I
mean
the
behaviors
and
behind
this
event,
for
example,
some
community
events
like
Summit
or
or
meet
up
online
or
offline.
Yes,.
C
I've
used
public
repositories
like
non-profit
repositories
or
open
source
scientific
repositories
where
they're
not
there's,
not
a
corporate
competitive
issue
associated
with
sharing
the
data
for
these
kinds
of
events.
A
Yeah
so
I
just
put
in
there
like
what,
if
we
had
a
data
fund,
we'd,
have
to
think
through
it
a
little
bit
but
I'm
running
a
similar
project
right
now
with
a
large
bank
here
in
my
city,
where
they're
providing
students
with
large
data
sets
around
customer
transaction
data
to
ask
questions
and
tell
stories
about
that
data,
and
maybe
we
could
do
something
similar
with
University
students
from
across
the
globe
to
to
provide
large
data,
sets
kind
of
Point
them
to
the
metrics
and
the
metrics
models
to
orient
them
around
stories
that
you
could
tell
around
that
data,
but
really
ask
them.
A
Yeah
I
think
it
might
be
a
cool
idea
and
ask
them
to
to
tell
stories
about
how
they
understand
the
health
of
communities
or
the
health
of
of
the
projects
that
are
presented
to
them.
I
have
to
think
through
it
a
little
bit
more.
You
know
like
what
we
would
ask,
but
then
they
would
actually
present
the
results
to
a
panel
yeah
folks
and.
C
A
A
It
may
have
somebody
that
asks
questions
too
yeah.
What
am
I
looking
at
so
I
know
we're
out
of
time,
but
this
is
something
to
think
about.
I,
never
thought
about
this,
and
it
might
be
a
nice
way.
Listening
to
this
conversation
for
students
to
start
just
getting
involved,
yeah
is
a
nice
ramp
for
them.
No.
For.