CHAOSS Asia-Pacific, 27 Jul 2022

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From YouTube: CHAOSS Asia Community Call July 27, 2022

Description

Links to minutes from this meeting are on https://chaoss.community/participate.

A

So welcome to the july 27th uh asia, pacific uh community call sean, has shared the minutes in the chat several times. If you could click on a link and add yourself to the attendees, that would be great um all right, so I there are yeah several things that I do want to talk about today, just from a asia-pacific kind of chaos, community perspective so- and we've talked about this in the metrics model meeting as well, this first one but context and keyword tags.

A

This is just kind of an update for everybody who works on metrics models or metrics.

A

We are going to be including context tags to all metrics and metrics models, and so you can click on that link, and these are the context tags so contribution, contributor, community so on and so forth. We talked about this in the common working group meeting as well, and I think we're pretty satisfied with the set of tags. If you do have changes, of course,.

B

Make suggestions.

A

Not a problem there or additions. Also, don't worry about that, and so really what we do is. If I take a look at this sheet, say the metrics model group, there are context, tags and keyword tag. Columns now we've started adding these say for some of our metrics.

A

Well, that's not a very exciting one to.

C

Look at it's just not filled in, but the columns are there.

A

Yeah here here we go so yeah. This is for common, so kevin has gone through and added a couple context: tags for the released metrics.

C

And we there's a, I think we said the maximum of two context: tags for each metric.

A

Yep kevin was really trying to keep it at one yeah, but if two works, then that's okay or two are needed, yep and so the context tags provide just high-level descriptions of metrics models or metrics.

A

Then there are keyword tags which will be more specific to the metrics themselves and those can be determined by the particular working groups. So it's a very if you don't, if it's not captured in the context, tagger there's very specific things. You want to draw out say, for example, like dependencies.

A

Those would be keywords that you can add, so these will be applicable to metrics models. The intention here is to help search on the website. So right now, as you know, our metrics and really just our metrics right now are just a really long list and they're it's pretty difficult to search. So the idea.

C

Yeah go ahead, it's not organized according to how people might consume them, but rather to how we created them, which working groups, and so this is an effort to make them more easily consumable.

A

So now, under this, under this approach, if say in common contributor location, is tagged with the contributor context tag and, let's say something in risk- is also tagged with the contributor um context tag somebody could search for a contributor and get the variety of metrics that come from different working groups. So the idea is to to assist in the search capability.

A

B

B

I'm assuming we'll need some kind of documentation around this and uh like, or is that going to go into some existing documentation? We have about how we develop metrics or where would this belong, because I'm just thinking of shoya and ruth working on the community handbook like I feel like this, should be in there somewhere yeah.

A

Probably so so maybe just this process that we have not that kevin and matt were currently applying them, but yeah just.

B

A

That you know when you develop a new metric when a working group develops a new metric or the metrics model working group develops a new model, then one of the things they should do now is add a context, tag or two and a keyword and any keywords that they believe are important for that model. Metric.

B

Okay, so okay got it so we'll add that shoya I'll, like maybe put an issue in or something in our documentation, so we just just so it doesn't get lost in the shuffle. Is that okay.

D

Okay, yeah sure.

B

D

Kind of discussed this tech text thing on the last web content meeting and we sure yeah we share the document me and ruth is working on to kevin and he will add some suggestions and guidance on that perfect.

B

A

Yep and so for the current, the current ones that are released.

A

And trying to make assignments that we think are appropriate. The metrics, the working groups can say, that's a terrible idea and change it, but kevin and I are trying to go through all 70 metrics to just assign them kind of on a first pass.

E

Okay, what I have one question that about the size of this context, text site: are we allowed to change that or update it yeah, something okay, great and also for the for the that k, k, words uh there's another one called keyword, tags right.

A

No, you can, you can make those up, as you see fit.

E

Okay, so what are those keywords? Tags uh you just mentioned it, it's a specific for the different working group. Are they also supported for for each research.

A

They would yes, they would also be supported as part of the search great that's great.

C

Yeah and my advice is to all the working groups would be to create that if you create a set of keywords or tags that your working group uses so that we don't end up with tag soup, um and maybe we keep a common list of the already used keywords for the the other tags so that it's not, we don't end up with 10 synonyms for the same thing, for example talking the tag list. That's that's advice. It's not a rule. It's a guideline. I hope.

A

So just a quick example on the context tags um for this influence, metrics model that we talked about last week.

A

We would first assign a tag or two that we a context tag that we believe generally categorizes the influence metrics model whatever that might be. We don't have to decide now, but you can see that a keyword tag might be open source program office. It might be community manager like it's the more specific things that are in the model or in the in the metric itself that aren't necessarily captured by these very high level context. Tags.

B

E

So it's kind of like we added a filter system to allow us to figure out the natural, single, metrics or group of metrics or matrix models.

A

Yeah, we don't really have any ability to do that right now and this.

B

Is yep good way to do that cool.

E

A

Cool all right. um The next issue is repository management, so I'm just this is an encouragement for metrics model. The metrics model working group, which I know a lot of folks on this call, are in and any like common evolution risk. Any of those can you just also take a little bit of time in your next meeting or the next week or two to just kind of reflect on the organization of your repository.

A

I know some groups do this pretty regularly and some maybe a little bit less so but check for things like 404 links, um checks for things like just weird folder structures and documents that are kind of embedded in places that nobody really knows what they are anyway, just go ahead and take a look at your repositories and just kind of clean them up um as you see fit so.

C

Yeah my my observation is that the most frequent issue is that people change the they. We create a landing page for all the metrics for working groups and sometimes things move around and those links get broken. That seems to be the most common mode of failure.

E

Yeah, that's true. I think we would focus on two repositories: four states uh translations, the other is uh it's matrix model right, yeah, yep, yep, huge, a lot of work.

A

It is, and the hope is, is that we can, instead of it, widening over time that we can bring it back together to make our repositories nice and clean. So.

B

That that's it that's just.

A

An encouragement on repository management- um this is, let's see, this is a list that doesn't take too much time, but google somewhere code evals, are due they're due right away, um so the period for for submission is now. I went to the google summer of code evaluation site, and this is what I understand to be the mentees the list here with the mentors kind of on that second point.

A

So sean you were on every single one of them, yeah. That's.

C

That well, the reason is because shawn I was like the person who signed us up for google summer of code and somehow me assigned me to everyone or I'm not exactly sure, but I was like chaos. Community in their portal is always me. Yes, um I I just highlighted the people who I think I've been the primary mentor for. uh I was supposed to be the primary mentor for mabel, but yahui has they've been she's, been working mostly with the gremore lab um metric model that yehui is developing and so huey.

C

I can talk to you and do that evaluation if, if you want, but I don't, I don't, but you're also welcome to do it yourself. I I just I don't feel like. I have a good sense.

E

uh Sure for photo maples evaluation. I can give you some my suggestions, yeah uh to you sure, for the taiwanese, because, as you know, that every week we will have a weekly meeting, yeah and.

B

E

C

Yeah, the price right the time of day has been tough for me because I'm a morning person.

E

Okay, great so anyway, I will. I will update uh the evaluation both for for mabel and tyree and for mobile evaluation. I will send send it to you. Okay, maybe you can add more things about it.

C

Okay also I'll highlight myself just to make sure that um I have some responsibility for that.

E

C

E

We can need to check with the vinyl that who also gave a lot of support on those two mentees for sure. Okay,.

C

Yeah I I yeah, I thought I guess we didn't. I didn't get you added to being mabel's mentor, but um I'll I'll get I'll. Take this one for fun yeah. We have um I'll seek feedback from you and venue. uh I've asked you so I'll reach out to venue today. They're. Do it they're due friday at like noon u.s time so.

A

Sean, can you with taiwai and mabel? Can you coordinate you're going to coordinate with yahuwi and venue and then maybe sorry you can? You can just submit them, but yeah.

C

Okay, yeah I'll, submit them, but I'll make sure that I get the input from people. Who've been working more closely with mabel.

A

Okay, cool, so sean you are submitting these is that correct four: four: yes, who's.

C

Submitting tie.

A

C

Oh I'll say I can submit tie ways sure, okay, yeah, do you want me to submit tie ways.

A

I mean you would coordinate and figure out what to say, but in terms of just the submit button, I'm just wondering.

C

Yeah I can take. I can take care of that sure.

A

E

A

You'll coordinate with venue and yahui to.

B

A

Write up the evaluation for taiway and mabel, you will submit them and then shop, yes, you're gonna submit these three as well.

C

Yep, so I'm gonna submit five and then um elizabeth will submit enix and I I have not been working closely with you. That's been kevin.

A

Yeah, I think kevin would be the best person for that. Okay- and I also put this in um it's in slack as well. Okay, so if you could respond to that as well, just so we know absolutely, then.

C

A

It's in the google summer of code.

C

A

Mentor channel, so if you could just.

B

Remember that you betcha yeah, okay,.

A

um Thank you for that um chaos con. I just want you to know that red hat google and patersia have all provided sponsorship uh for chaos con, which is fantastic. So thank you to all of those organizations. This is chaos con europe, which is happening september 12th in dublin, ireland. um Just one thought I don't know.

A

I was just going to put this out here because I just thought about it this morning, but we have three levels of sponsorship: bronze, silver and gold, and um people seem to gravitate towards a couple of them, and I was thinking what, if maybe in the future, we just do something like an organization providing 500 a year is recognized as a chaos. Sustainer.

C

Yeah, I don't know who this dog is.

A

A

um You get something like 500 a year and you're recognized as a chaos sustainer, and so this could this money. Could this is just a thought and I'm just putting it out here to this group. We can talk about it obviously later, but um a lot of this money would probably come in support of chaos con.

A

You know what I mean so like. If red hat, google or patergia gave 500 to support, kscon we'd actually recognize them throughout the year as a chaos sustainer, we can recognize them on the website. We can recognize them at chaos con and it's just or somebody could just give 500, not even for chaos con. They just want to be a chaos. Sustainer see what I'm saying like it's. It's yes point in time kind of thing, and it's just a way to to recognize people and organizations throughout the year that support chaos.

C

So, instead of giving them momentary credit, it's sort of a more of a sustained hey. Thank you so much yeah.

A

Yeah and we can have like things that we obviously reach out to them like during chaos, cons that would make a like you know we could say. Would you like to be a sustainer? You know we have chaos con coming up.

E

I have one question about this sponsorship, so it is supposed to be like uh organizations, actions like from right, height, google, but maybe in the future, from other companies, but.

A

E

Does it support to be a personal action for for this sponsorship.

A

E

I mean either indie video sponsor you yeah.

C

We would take warren buffett or bill gates, money um for sure, okay or.

A

Anybody anybody yeah certainly be an individual.

E

Maybe I can do something on in the next uh chaos china summit, together with xio yang, for such things, yeah.

D

I mean this is uh actually it's supposed to be organizational uh sponsor that we.

A

D

uh Companies as the whole organization, but we we will of course sure accept, um does uh the sponsorship from um as as personal, and uh we will also recognize it. The individual names right.

B

E

And also we are talking about the sponsorship uh actually for the for the metrics model. In the last meeting, we we discussed a little bit about the source uh platform um contributed or by the gate and and in today's meeting together with getty engineers and and cto, and we we are talking about the domain name of this service and we found that the chaos dot org is available.

E

So so uh katie just registered this domain name and and discuss with me that can we use this domain name at the sas, dom name and also contribute this domain name to to the chaos community.

C

Yeah I mean I've done something similar. I bought chaos, dot io for just putting stuff up and it's, but it's not my property, it's the chaos community's property. So I I think, um that's I don't have a problem with that. I don't know how others feel so.

E

How about you guys match you like? It is based and.

A

Yeah so I mean, I guess so, give you registered kids, which is a nice property, particularly in relation to us, because.

E

We have, we are looking for the domain name for this service yeah and and we we have a lot of proposals but we've. You know in some case uh occasional case. We found that the the chaos dot oig is not registered yet.

B

E

We quickly registered and by by getting so the gated cto dongle told tell me that okay, they would like to contribute this domain name to the chaos. It looks like belong to the chaos community.

B

E

Yeah so so we would like to use this domain name and add the service at some service that we discussed and and as you know, that, because we all the matrix model deployed on this uh sus platform, um the only engine port would come from uh chaos matrix model. So I think it's suitable.

A

So do you isn't.

C

Are you thinking of deploying the metrics models in gremore lab exclusively or are you thinking of also deploying things with auger.

E

E

Have been trying with the groom lab for more than three weeks, but, as I mentioned shen in the following going forward, I mean we can deploy more uh solutions like the auger into the into this service.

E

We are totally open for that.

C

The have you put a lot, I'm just curious if you've put a login in front of grimore lab, so people can log in and request repositories that they want to see the health statistics for.

E

Yeah, but uh I think we we, I would discuss it a little bit about it, but I think we can continue this discussion and to say, okay, is: is it possible to deploy your solution on this platform.

A

So so I I think I have I love, I love the idea and I have, uh and I love the donation of chaos.org um I have. I think I have a number of questions that like immediately come to my mind and I'm not sure maybe we could have another talk just in terms of like how how this would work. So if we had like, for example, we would have chaos.org and we have giddy involved. Providing a sas solution um is chaos.org providing metrics models like against the getty platform.

C

A

How would we think about github, and perhaps.

B

Like wow, I mentioned.

E

I mentioned many times not just supported for getting, but it's open for github. Good luck! Good luck! All the all the different kind of code code host platform, and also not just register to the code code host platform, it's open for the other other data sources like twitter and uh discourse slide.

E

Just the data source is supported already by by google map and augur okay.

A

um So would so chaos.org would kind of be a landing page by which the metrics were provided and then from there you could choose to investigate, say, repositories on kitty or you could choose to to investigate repositories on git lab exactly okay,.

E

And further for now, we we, just uh you know trying out the repository hosted on the github and gt haven't, got time to try out with git drive but yeah.

A

E

I mean in the future we could support it.

A

Okay, um yeah and then uh like do we need? Do we need repository like software repositories like in, to manage software that might be produced.

E

All day, all the matrix and matrix model such solution should uh should already exist in the chaos okay, and also for the sas this website. Under this solution, they are prepared to open source it. Okay,.

A

Okay, so that okay, so anywhere, you know I mean these are like the questions I have, and maybe we could and you're answering all of them um like do you know where, if they're going to open source it like where they would plan on on hosting that, would they want to host it in the chaos oregon github.

E

Good question: I can chat with.

C

Okay, if they're, if they're donating the hosting services, I assume the computers will will be where giddy is located, which I guess I don't know where that is.

E

uh There uh we have a plan so with the tools with two phases: the first phase we will deploy all the service hosted in china, but in in the second step we will also you know, host, provides support to giving the servers deployed outside of china.

E

Maybe in hong kong.

C

Yeah, okay, uh when it comes to auger, I can provide any kind of help, that's necessary in either location, as I would for any open source project consumer.

C

My university will not, but my university will go nuts if I log into a computer in china, so I can't ever log into a computer in china, but I can like go to a web and go to a web page and that's just because of the geopolitical nature of university funding. There are five countries that we are not allowed to do. Exports to okay and china is on that list. I'm sorry! It's it's my government! It's not me.

E

That's why? Because they already have such plans, we are not limited to our users of of this platform, just the the people from china, but also the people from all over the world. So.

C

Anyways, it's totally keep going yeah and it's totally fine. I can give emails for issue support talk to you. I just like. I can't physically touch a computer in china at the at the sysadmin login level like I do with other augur instances, um but web pages does are fine. If yep I can, if they could be accessed, you know nobody knows where they are. If they're on the internet.

A

So you do, you have uh documentation like strategy, documentation or kind of logistics, documentation that we could start sharing yeah.

E

I'm not not right now, but I'm preparing for that. I I I remember already gave this promise last time.

E

I wasn't bugging you again, but I will probably, but I promise I will share it with you guys sooner or later.

A

Because I think you would like I said, you're answering all all of the questions, so this is great and I just I think it would be cool if I could help like in terms of like documenting this out and kind of mapping out what this would look like and then thinking about um community development as well for support of of such things- and you know, kind.

B

A

All the the extra open source things that go around as well.

E

I'm trying to prepare while it uh during the weekend and and we can discuss with this actually together in the next community meeting- maybe.

A

Okay, that sounds good and just share it with me when you're, ready and sean and elizabeth.

A

Yeah absolutely, and that would be cool okay great well, that took us down here um great, thank you for that, and so so actually then I mean we may want to think. I think this question about sustainer kind of brought us down here as chaos.org and so yeah. I think you know, maybe it's not just money, but it could be um yeah yeah right exactly. There are a variety of ways that an organization could become a sustainer, so um you're right. I haven't thought past this this list here I think that's a really good idea.

A

B

B

C

Yeah, certainly any organization offering server support would be welcome.

A

Well right and then.

C

B

Immediately think of like.

A

Honestly, the linux foundation came.

C

A

Of in in kind support that they provide oh yeah.

B

um As well, okay, yeah, absolutely okay, cool! Thank you.

A

Thank you for that, um so I actually, that is the updates on the software as a service efforts. Was there anything else you wanted to say about that yahui or is. Are you? Are you good.

B

A

um I did just want to talk just a little bit about metrics models. Again sean, I'm going to ask you what the status of the welcomingness metrics model is and if you could just organize that towards.

C

The structure that we have yeah I've assigned a developer to to do that. So, okay, I would the next week or two that should be taken care of okay.

A

I think you have a lot of the parts there. I think it's just the folder structure.

C

The only thing that I wasn't able to do quickly myself is get the json files stored exactly as they need to be, and it's like it's not hard. It's just. I didn't want to spend three hours debugging it myself. I wanted to put a developer on it. Okay,.

A

No problem, um just so just to ping on that one um I just just wanted to just not that won't talk about them here, but just draw forward the metrics models that came forward in the last metrics model meeting. So thank you. We had a big conversation. I think it was about this one. Wasn't it shoya the influence? One really detailed conversation really really quite interesting. So thank you for that.

B

D

Are working on the uh hr we are using e-chart as the displaying um the visualization um to um so. Hopefully we can demonstrate some demos on the next meeting because uh it might be a bit hard to understand just looking at this static pictures.

A

Right, okay, so that'd be that'd, be cool. I can put that on the next metrics model like agenda. I'd love to see that um can frank make it as well. Do you think.

D

A

D

I think yeah we can't.

A

That'd be cool, okay, cool! Thank you for that.

B

E

I just lost my connection.

A

You're back I hear you: okay,.

E

uh For the for the community stories and support and code quality, we have been running on more than like more than one thousand projects online and with us also add that ripples, including the ripple, deploy and sorry posted on the github rpg or later. Maybe the next two weeks will give the real-world data analysis to matrix models and also because currently we are working on, you have developer relationship.

E

You know related max model with a country before.

A

Wait, did you say there was a new metrics model, developer relationship.

A

Okay, um if you could add those maybe to the metrics model agenda, extraordinaire, okay,.

B

That'd be cool. Thank.

E

You for watching yeah.

A

Yeah, okay, cool great okay! Thank you.

A

B

Somebody's type.

A

Who's typing I'm ty.

B

That's me: I yeah go ahead.

D

um Okay, so I I'm just gonna talk about it, a little bit about the asia pacific logo. So on the last web content meeting, uh I already shared the news with ruth, um because we discussed the local design of chaos, africa and asia pacific, and I love the idea of using the map outline to represent local communities. So I shared this preview to some of the local community members.

D

However, I received a strong feedback concerning that um the territory territorial issues is kind of a bit sensitive topic in china, so we might want to avoid any elements regarding the map because it it might to it might lead to some um arguments about the around the territory. Yeah problems.

B

A

That's completely fair, so maybe the suggestion no suggestion on chaos. Africa, perhaps just remove the map for chaos, asia,.

D

C

I already share.

D

This with ruse- and he he he shared this with the designer- and uh we might see the updates of the logo on the next web content meeting and I feel sorry for this logo, because I really loved that and it's really not about the design, because I think it looks amazing. But um it's just. There are always some these politic factors lingering around.

A

Well, thank you. Thank you for doing that yeah, and that was a great.

B

Point what I'm wondering is, if is there, is there any other like abstract image that we could use that would sort of represent asia in some way? That's not a map.

D

Yeah, I was kind of thinking about that, but I don't have anything representative to to sh to show the whole asia pacific area. I don't have that kind of element on mine, so a temporary solution might just use characteristic characters.

C

If um one of the things that when we talk about asia-pacific one of the ways we neutralize the political factors in the us is, we include australia and new zealand on the map, and then it becomes unambiguous that asia, pacific is just a kind of a vague ambiguously defined region and the the continuous so that just try to ambiguate.

C

I guess which countries are in it, because you know how do you draw those lines that north america is pretty easy, but I think I think asia with the land boundaries, it's a little bit more difficult to say: where does asia end, and I mean really, it would include russia. I believe.

C

Technically, if I'm looking at continents.

A

B

Does sound like there's.

A

A was did, I hear you right to show you that the designer that ruth is working with is going to come back with a few suggestions.

D

Oh yeah, he um yeah he he might share uh the updated logo on the next web content.

A

Okay, that sounds great all right.

B

A

I'm sorry I thank you very much for for sharing that and bringing the feedback here. Much appreciated.

D

E

Yeah, we also saw that uh I got to show you all feedback on the on the contribution from yoya be very friendly about this. We just have a little bit concerned about these territories and map things. Its calendar is gender sensitive in china, so we have to avoid such scratching around around this area.

E

And also, I I told you that, if, if you need any support and design things from my company, my organization could provide some support on it.

D

Yeah, I think yahweh is: he means that huawei have uh resources on the designers. So if uh we can also discuss this with ruth that, if um the designer volunteer uh need some support, maybe there are some resources from huawei to support.

A

Okay, that sounds great. um Thank you hui, for that offer thanks shoya.

B

I was just doing a bit of googling and I dropped a link in the in the chat. um I wonder if we could use like outlines of animals that are native to asia, um not necessarily these, but I found I found this logo and so that's gonna be not um not controversial. I wouldn't think um so. That's that's an idea.

D

Yeah, that's a great one.

C

Yeah I like that.

D

For example, panda could be the animal for china and um uh for russia there has bear, and for india there has elephant elephants and yeah. I think that's a good, a good direction that we can consider. Okay,.

A

Would you could you share that with ruth.

D

A

Maxwell, I think, he's the people who are doing the.

B

A

Cool, thank you all right. Great, uh let's see sean did you have any. You were typing some stuff in here.

C

Oh yeah, I just um under the hire a data scientist uh piece I just wanted to mention. There's a project that red hat is leading, which is a sub project of a larger open source project called san, diego and they're building.

C

uh There's a alpha version of a dashboard that they're building with uh what's called actually a project called dash, plotly and so they're, building out a bunch of things that are ultimately going to look a lot like metric models just with a different technology uh back ended by auger, and I just but they have a pretty decent sized team of data scientists who are creating it, and I just wanted to make make a note of that project in the in the context of the data scientist question that they are they're working with ks metrics, they're working with auger and they're building a new dashboard kind of a thing, and uh one of the things you'll see here is one of the things we're working on right now is on the back end for some reason.

C

um Actually, I know that we know the reason, which is that the uh the front end is hosted on an amazon server somewhere in oregon and databases in north carolina, and so there's just a lot of data getting marshaled between the servers. That's why it's a little slow right now.

C

And it's obviously alpha-ish.

C

But there's over 10 000 repositories and organizations you can search on in that list. There.

C

I don't think there's anything under ci cd yet, but there's like there's some stuff under chaos.

E

A long time it's uh it has been running.

C

Say it again, it takes a long time to load.

E

I mean how long this this service has been running.

C

Oh, this is this page has been up for less than a month.

C

It's been a it's been a nice, it's been a nascent project, probably for eight months or so, but it's taken a long time to ramp up.

C

And now now it's really getting ramped up. So that's why I'm bringing it to us because it it definitely appears to be a going concern and they're they're, definitely working with the products that chaos is producing.

E

uh So the is something called right. I'm sorry, I didn't quite catch that I mean. What's the icon, though these stories it's called sanniago.

B

What's the back end for the service, is it oh yeah, the.

C

Back end is the back end is auger right now: yep, okay, but there's nothing that would prevent them from accessing vermour lab data. The front end is completely independent. You can build a graph off of any data store.

E

I mean that's really cool yeah.

C

What I like what I like about it is: it allows windowing like you, can scroll and select those window times down there and it pretty dynamically, like updates things so like that, that gray window, where there's a you, can slide the time window that you're looking at, um and so you could yeah. So you can see things for different time. Obviously, there's a scrunching problem, but yeah.

C

So that's you know in terms of things that I've seen that have been done with chaos. Metrics. uh That particular feature, I think, is really desirable.

A

Okay, so my I.

C

That this is really the the only point here is that there's data scientists working on this- that that's the discipline, that's uh driving this effort right now and uh there was a mention of data scientists. So I thought I'd bring this up yeah, because.

A

There seems to be a fairly recent like six months in the chaos project kind of drive towards you know how we've always kind of been agnostic on metrics.

B

A

Like kind of not fully saying this is perfect- or this is not not great, but like kind of a move towards some sort of recommendations or what we've been seeing. Kind of a comparable set of projects and just okay.

C

Well- and I think I think on this- you know I think dawn has been doing that at vmware like actually applying chaos metrics, but uh also the the indicators that vmware considers to be. You know: red, yellow, green, not not necessarily in that language, but certainly the dashboards that you produced on those are not unbiased, right, you're, you're, creating something that sends them a message or signal to your organization.

B

Yeah we we sort of categorize them as whether or not it looks healthy or whether or not it might be at risk, um with the caveat that they should be interpreting it themselves, because just because it hit an arbitrary threshold. That means that the graph thinks it's at risk does not necessarily mean that a project is indeed at risk. So I put.

A

B

All these all these caveats around it and then the other thing. I actually look at too that I've added to the graphs is um trend data. So so, yes, this is at risk, but it's trending in a positive direction. So maybe don't worry too much about it or it's.

C

B

Risk but it's trending in a negative direction, so maybe you should think about you know whether or not the the project is that that metric is going in the wrong direction. So.

C

E

B

Some definite opinions around those.

A

You're breaking up yahui. It was hard to hear you. Oh.

E

Sorry so I mean I discharged how any indicator would tell us that this point is becoming worse or become wild.

A

Does this does this chart have any data that tells us kind of what you were talking about at the end they're don like the trend. Yeah? Is this telling us that this is trending well or this is trending poorly sean, that's kind of.

C

For you, my so it's not explicitly applied and I think it's less direct than some of the work that dawn is doing in terms of providing those possible indications. But, uh sir, this. This is not giving a clear signal you do have to interpret it.

C

But I think it's I do think this is the kind of work that is trending in the direction that people will, whether we want them to or not whether chaos takes a position. If not, people will start to interpret this data, as you know, good or not good,.

A

All right, folks, we are at risk. We are at the end of time a little bit over time. It's good to see everybody until the next time. Thank you so much for the conversation yeah thanks. Everyone see you next week.

B

Bye, everybody.