CHAOSS DEI Working Group, 9 Dec 2019

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From YouTube: CHAOSS.D&I.December.9.2019

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CHAOSS.D&I.December.9.2019

A

It's been pushed. Thank you about my bond to our Kaos. They were staying working group meeting on December 9 2009, just shared the link to the minutes and.

A

The first thing I want to talk about is whether we want to meet next week, but then cancel that 23rd and the 30th meeting.

B

Yes, I mean I'm, just I won't be available me. Neither.

A

And then we can meet again on January 6, okay,.

B

So with that, then it would be to put closure on any of the metrics today and next week.

A

Last time we got a lot of metrics ready for release, so that's where I'm gonna start today, since that's our main focus to go to the tracking sheet. I can also put it in the chat.

A

Make sure we are on the track for yep, then release so the event. Diversity is all ready to go contributor community diversity. We don't have anything in there yet, which.

B

Rory, can you see the row row.

A

19 to 24, okay, okay,.

B

Oh you're going my focus area yeah.

A

I'm, just going to talk to pop yep, okay, cool I was thinking about releasing the demographics page that we have. What is that? hmm What.

B

Is that oh I see what you're saying we.

A

Have this page about demographic data and the definitions that we have here, I'll put in the chat? Okay,.

A

So we have the definitions at the top of the document and we have the dimensions of demographics, which we refer to very frequently in our metrics and so I thought. It would be good to release this as part of our metrics. So.

B

Is this row 24 on the tracking spreadsheet.

A

You know I, don't I, don't think so. I think this is separate because it's not in and of itself a metric. Oh okay,.

B

So what are you proposing in terms of releasing.

A

That we include this as a document in the release. It's not a metric document, it's just definition document. So.

B

It has a question yeah.

C

I was kind of thinking. This would be kind of the metric that will evolve from releasing definitions that will allow people to formulate what's in their head, like myself against you know, definitions and examples of other metrics, so so releasing this kind of invites people who have been struggling to express what is unrelatable about what they see is not necessarily good diversity and inclusion.

C

You know again, I call this concept avoid. You could feel that the other person is feeling distressed about it, but you don't necessarily know how to see it from their perspective and, and so the other person is left the same case. Well, how can I explain this and- and you know hence I ended up at chaos, really, okay, so releasing this is really you know, I, believe it's a good step towards allowing other people to come and help read this metric.

A

Okay, so and I think this would be if you release this I think this would be good appendix because we reference fairly frequently the dimensions of demographics. We do I.

B

Guess my question: my question is not about the content. It's just about the process because.

D

B

Our process has been about releasing metrics, and so this is not that that's all I'm, a hundred percent behind the content I'm a hundred percent behind getting it in front of people.

A

A

C

A

Go ahead, oh I was just thinking about adding at the bottom a new I'll call it a focus air. But really it's not me just Colin appendix.

C

Can I can I recommend the thought of saying? Okay, maybe this is something chaos can refer. To I mean chaos can contribute the material in a in a common place where definitions was things like that.

C

You know like like one entity removed where, where chaos would be the you know the first contributor to that entity, because I understand the fear of stepping away from metrics to things that can be considered.

C

You know non-metric like up like, like you're, starting to actually form an opinion now and and say that this is opinion and that's how some people will only perceive this and and once you start in that path and can't really it ends up that you become labeled as someone you know emphasis on changing minds, not just helping more. You know people measure things. Then then you cannot undo that and you cannot stop it early enough. So finding a place where you say chaos refers to this.

C

If it can as well be that chaos contributed how they reflected on that, but they don't necessarily do it as a common practice that they form an opinion and inseminate. That okay sounds fair. I.

A

Like the idea of having a shared definition that others can refer to as well or maybe maybe that already exists somewhere, so we don't even need to maintain it ourselves because.

B

Mozilla, have it well dr. Nicki I mean they have I'm talking about yeah.

C

So I know it was very cryptic, but I feel very, very appreciated that it felt that I got understood its unloved. Thank you. That's a new feeling. It's been, it's been something I've been struggling with in it. So thanks no.

A

Worries nikki has a section called I, just put it in the chat categories and definitions on her website. Yeah I went to the same place and then I went forward to her website.

B

I'm guessing that's where a lot of ours came from anyway.

A

We have more okay, giving through here. This is very focused on race, ethnicity, okay,.

A

But it does not have a nice list. Like me, okay, I.

B

Mean honestly, is this listening to solid talk? Is this a common metric.

B

Like for D&I or.

C

B

So we have, we have a working group called common, yeah, yeah and lots of times when we talk through metrics.

B

Common is basically trying to capture metrics that might be used in a variety of different ways. So say we want to understand full requests, but we may want to start filtering on demographic information with respect to those pull requests, and so then, in that case, demographic information is the common yeah.

C

I well, hopefully, one day will be a colorimetric, but not in the sense that you're saying but I really I really believe that it will start as a common metric for sure like there's, no, no, like I. It's still formulating in my mind.

C

So so you know you sharing that it starts off as common and then maybe it evolved elsewhere. I remember seeing in the spreadsheet some that were not common and then they became too common that they have to be come from, or you know like the ones that were moved to the common working group for one reason or the other I'm not sure exactly but yeah. It's a big role.

C

Let's talk about the actual metric after we close this round on you know next year, I know that it seems a bit slow, but you know it's it's a very difficult thing to try to hammer on I guess from you know, from my perspective, needs.

B

What do you think about that? Georg.

A

I'm sorry I am writing issue Nicky, asking if the if you would be willing to maintain this list as part of our categories and definitions page if she wants to, if he's willing or something of the idea that we move. What we created here over to her, maybe in a different form that.

E

A

Like a reasonable approach, yeah.

E

A

Actually pay attention to what solid was saying. Sorry.

C

Yeah I just wrote in the comments that I've been trying to say to you that you know for that bit and the fact that you thought about it and you're doing it. While I couldn't stop talking about something else, I guess we were both distracted in it, but I seem to be talking while I was doing it.

C

B

That would be great if, if somebody also could maintain it because then we just point to a different, authoritative source.

C

Yeah, you don't become the the person who dictates whether or not another opinion is you know how that other opinion prior to yours, yeah.

B

You've been very careful in the chaos project, all along just to be agnostic on our metrics, we're simply saying here they are, how you interpret them and as good or bad is not our responsibility. We have no value judgment yeah, but they're here they are they're available and they seem to help people gain better insights on to the health of their communities. Yeah.

C

And it's important to know also that, even though, obviously this is how chaos would always work and know it's working, other people should also perceive that and trust that, and not have reason to doubt it for the wrong reason. Think that's a really didn't.

A

Okay, I'm gonna share a text here with you in just a second that I prepared for submitting to Nikki's project.

A

So we can all work on it. You see I dr. Nikki in the casting I work in group with the Minotaur people. You've been working often.

C

On the angel, all I was like that was grammatically correct. For some reason, I mean you know, yeah formally correct on.

A

An internal list of definitions and dimensions of demographics. We were discussing today whether we could contribute this to your project. You would like to refer to your project as the authoritative source that we used and not duplicate resources in the open source system.

B

D

Don't want to sidetrack you, but can I meant, can I bring something up real quick first.

A

D

Sorry I was late, I have a have another meeting, so actually I just dropped in to to say something about the upcoming release and then I'm gonna have to leave shortly after that for the further release, we're coordinating the the detailed pages through the Google, the Google sheet that met created and we're asking all of the workgroups to add the detail, page URLs to the remarks section for the the metrics that are that are done that are ready for release and then, if you have metrics that you're working on in Google sheets, if you could add the URL to those as well, that would be.

D

That would be helpful too just to help coordinate the end of the release and so that everyone can help you finish them. If needed. Does that make sense.

B

Yeah, so if you actually click on save the evolution tab in that document, you'll see in the remarks section, they have a link to the Google or to the github document. It just helps Kevin coordinate things for releasing to the web. That's all.

C

And so I assumed, then we can say. Oh sorry, I said.

D

C

Yeah I think could say that remarks were in progress would be logically. The dark and remarks were ready would be the github crowd.

B

Yeah yeah under percent curve, and we could always track these down. It just helps Kevin later move through these.

D

Sheets, a little faster I think it'll help coordinate finishing up some of those documents as well. If we have kind of a central place where we can, we can point people to to Google Docs, so.

B

Gary I just saw your issue come across.

B

D

Thank you. I have to go, though, so thanks Kevin.

B

So I could do that for a few of these I guess.

A

So nickel, we are in the middle of getting metrics ready for the release.

A

B

Just copying and pasting the links at the moment of.

A

Course, yeah and I shared with them. You called the link to the minutes argument: okay,.

A

So we call one of the things we just discussed was about the list of demographics, the dimensions of memo, graphics that we have.

F

A

Right now we refer to this list for the often in our metrics, almost in every metric, I, think and we're pointing through the markdown file in the contemporary Chrome. And so the question was: do we release this as an appendix to our metrics and then it's all? They had the good idea that maybe it would be better to maintain this somewhere in a more central place, because it's not really a metric in and of itself, and so we opened an issue with the open demographics project to see if they wanted to maintain this list. Okay,.

F

A

Unless, maybe you have an idea for someone else who might have such a list of dimensions of demographics and would be or would be interested in maintaining it if we contributed it? I.

F

I think that what you actually suggested it there it's a good idea that I don't know that I would have kids trended. Think.

F

D

F

I'm right yeah, with the has in any more in any better lift.

A

Yeah I was thinking about the open source, diversity or page, but they're more a like a phone book of different projects and so on. They don't actually mean you know just themselves.

A

Yes, I'm gonna share this link in the chat, so I don't know if you're aware of this project, the open source diversity don't work change. They also have a really good forum.

C

Yeah you sure that lady here for weeks ago, I had been following up on on all the different threads I guess, but it has proved useful.

A

Okay looks like looks like you're done. Copying no I'm in the wrong page.

A

B

I yeah there were two one row 49.

B

We might just want to take care of that.

A

Yes, is the diversity yeah.

B

And then I suppose I still need to do row. 43 just do the new template. We.

A

E

Week I thought: okay, I was I, don't know if I was here last week. I remember.

C

Thank you or not was.

B

A

Minute say you were here and minutes also say I'm wrong.

A

C

Are mom's taken and sorry one the last week I saw you in one movie, so there's only like nine a week, so it's so you did 50% them all right, no class right, okay,.

A

Here let me share my screen and we can go through the pull requests so that we have that all straightened out. Okay, I'll start at the bottom. We have update board council diversity, which takes the metric. We had and puts it into the new template.

A

A

And he dogs or feedback on this one, no.

B

I'm sure you did a great job, I mean: can you scroll down just a little bit I know I can look at it too, but.

B

All right and then I'll drop that link in there and you can pull up the next PR while I'm doing that. Yeah.

A

Then we have a whole request to all solid as the contributor, so the only changes adding him to the list of contributors.

C

Okay, I just wanted to hear it once because every time people say does anybody object and like to lurk and they complain about how so I just wanted to preemptively. Try it out. You know: okay, here, I'll close it too.

B

Late you're in a lot.

C

Of functionary, it's possible to object, you know I'm, like I. Just wonder why people don't use it.

A

But I assume you're that was just yeah. It's all jumpy. Okay, then I'll merge this.

A

Update list of core contributors, this one is adding mats now on Kevin's member because they have been very engaged and showing up frequently. Okay,.

D

A

Their economy has not been so moving yeah and we do have criteria for being on this list and that us to participate once four months over three months. So Salah. If you continue showing up we'll, beat the mullet as well.

A

C

Yeah I hardly leave. You know you guys already approved that so no born in.

E

Diversity, what was this one so.

A

This poll request is for organizing the focus areas I see.

E

A

Had a issue here, go yahudah had commented that the order doesn't make sense starting out with events, and so we discussed that may be alphabetical would be better. Okay,.

B

So this is reorganizing that yeah.

A

And it's doing it on the demographic, no I'm on the Whitney and the focus area. Reasoning is.

B

It go yeah I'm, fine with it.

A

While I see this so this one, it looks like in the end, starting with communication, then come to bury than even come an inspirational project finish. What I just noticed is that we do have your demographics data. We also have this list, so I should have to looking at me say.

E

That again, oh here.

A

On the demographics data page, we have also almost of focus areas like this just as well. Okay, I'll do that real, quick.

A

All right all requests now has all three files updated.

A

A

A

Okay, so we were just talking about mentorship.

B

F

E

B

It had been updated, I'm not seeing.

A

So it still has success metrics, so it's not updated yet.

E

B

Is there a Google Doc for this somewhere or no.

E

A

Like an old one and.

C

A

We can reuse this Google Doc. You.

E

Put it in the chat, are you putting it in the chat.

E

A

Now, what come in there's man.

A

Okay, I'll stop sharing my screen, lovely work on this.

E

So, let's see I'll work on the mentorship pose to start at the top. I guess shall we.

A

Change the objectives from the list to a block of text, yeah.

B

To a narrative.

B

I'm just reading the description, while you do that.

F

That question to me typically I'm, reading I'm down at the objectives in the mentorship one and I'm just wondering do you typically have them in paragraph format, want to look at force. We.

B

Do paragraphs now, okay,.

E

It's super long sentence.

A

A

We can probably remove that example. Just.

E

Like down to here, yeah.

B

And that's good.

A

So in the smoke the other metrics I was just looking healthy, typically write objectives.

A

You still have a few that are bullet points. We still do yeah looking at the events.

B

All right well, I, guess we don't have a standard, then yeah.

B

It's all been narrative. The.

A

Question here is whether to say to increase, or just the Objectivists increase.

B

Objectives to increase them over in to me too, but.

C

Sorry, sorry, but I I did have a question that, like to come, I I, know probably is answered outside the scope of this document somewhere, but I mean the kind of questions you're asking about each of those like focus areas, I think, I'm, sorry, I'll get the terminology eventually and then forget it. So those questions are obviously correlated with demographics right.

C

So so it's important to know from the diversity, including screen point that mentorship is not just good, but it's good based on demographics, as in if we slice the demographics different ways, they perceive mentorship to be almost the same. Hence it's inclusive.

C

So so that part. Obviously you know if it's somewhere, it's gonna be like it's a superseding thing. So all these documents so yeah. So there's a question mark somewhere and what I said. Sorry. So is the question how to include demographics, and this is that already factored in somewhere, where I cannot see from here or is it something that we want to make discuss different.

B

Contexts typically, as Gary had pointed out, I think earlier, most of the DNI metrics have a reference to def demographics at some point somewhere in there. So if you're feeling like the mentorship metric at this moment, doesn't have a reference to demographics, we can.

C

B

C

I guess I'm, sorry, I guess what I was trying to say is that we collect metrics. That say the demographics are good, that that's a form of you know, measure a good measure that a community is inclusive in itself, but then you know like, like you will do with the census right like if you say that people of various are diverse groups, see mentorship as good as the rest. Then it's it's.

C

You know it's affirming that mentorship alone and the inclusion aspect of that community in general make it so that mentorship is effective and like that to everyone. Hence the community is inclusive times to kind of thing, or it's financially, even so so I'm just saying that this could be a general rule for for every metric to correlate it with how it fares across the different demographics. Oh yeah,.

A

I agree with that to make sure that people of different demographics report the same perceived inclusiveness.

C

Exactly you know like not: on average, the metric is good, but the standard deviation says that inclusion is strong, so.

A

I included, I highlighted two items down below also which are directly talking about the demographics, so we say number of diverse mentees and diverse. They could link to our list of demographics, and then we have a specific one for Geographic. I know what you said is slightly different: it's not just saying they are present, but that they also perceive it as inclusive yeah.

C

Yeah, but definitely this is important within the metric itself for mentorship. You see what I mean so so it's it's a you know we're looking at it from both angles, from the bigger picture and from the detail, I I know. Geographic distribution for mentees is something that comes up a lot in ojs when they're talking about you know how they can meet the bandwidth if trans ohms are problematic for that purpose,.

A

Okay, my and we can remove geographic problem. You can leave it as a separate item. It's included in that diverse list button. That's fun.

A

So now we have all of these qualitative and quantitative aspects that mean about.

C

About Geographic I was trying to lead to that. Yes, you could have a diverse, so you know make up augmentees, but they could all be located in one country. So so Geographic here is important. That you're able to cater to different forms of that. You know something to work on water, so projects that that are open to just a particular work day. Hours are less likely to be really truly diverse, as in globally diverse, they are culturally diverse from from the same time zone.

B

F

A

This has a very long list of data collection strategies. It.

B

Does I get a little lost through this part.

B

You see where I am page.

A

B

Don't know how that's collecting demographic information.

A

Enters experience is a different kind of demographic. It's not one of the dimensions of demographics that yeah okay, a number of contributions from mentees I think we can up to observe contributions that monkeys make during that mentorship program.

B

So can we just get rid of that altogether? Then you.

A

Can also do that yeah I think it's implied. I do.

E

A

And then retention rate, this trajectory.

C

The question you removed all together, it seems like there is a separate non BNI aspect of my mentorship aspect of mentorship.

C

Say how is the mentorship program itself, under which you would want to say that the amount of contributions it leads to the you know how effective it is to onboard you know things that are separate from the diversity it brings, but rather and the effectiveness topic itself under comment on you guys do that via split metrics and please this way.

B

Can you say that again, I was in the midst of cutting and pasting.

C

I'll try but it probably sounded there.

B

Was multitasking with my fingers and my eyes and my brain.

C

Well, yeah I, don't know how that works for me, but yeah yeah I, don't.

B

Think it worked for me either I'm, afraid.

C

I'm, seeing that the question that was was what is the lately get measured, how much contribution came from in fees and.

D

C

There's like a like a sister metric or mentorship that falls on their common.

D

C

Elsewhere that that could reflect, you know like it's nice, to have a diverse and inclusive mentorship initiative, but it has to also be an effective mentorship. Initiations yeah.

E

C

Not just effectively diverse and inclusive some sort of evaluation of the contributions. Basically yeah yeah like like a good program that is long starters and inclusive is, is you know much much better? It's more than exponentially.

A

So I think that is what we are trying to capture you with a variety of different questions, and since you asked about the related metric, one that would be very typical. Ated here also is the types of contributions.

B

Which is a common metric, which.

A

We wanted to elevate as a common metric. It's not yet well.

B

It's on its way, it's.

A

On its way, when I have time or someone else picks it up in.

B

Commons meeting this week so so.

C

Its almonds, like general metric yeah.

C

B

So it's just it's kind of a metric like geographic location. It just might be something that a bunch of different working groups care to understand in a variety of different ways.

E

B

Okay, this looks fairly ready to me. What do you say, yeah.

A

Much better than it was when we started yeah.

B

A

Can copy it back if you.

C

um I use the docs versioning feature that once we create the markdown file, update like I, basically just create a new name version called up screen, and that means at any point in time. If somebody accidentally makes edits, we can always look back to the upstream one in case. If we don't have another point of reference to know what was upstream as an immediate evening again right, it's just a Pixability back up.

A

All right, what what do you mean upstream in the spreadsheet document, yeah.

C

I can seriously it takes one. Second, sorry, not in the spreadsheet, in the actual doc, lock like the Google Doc, the one you were just editing um can I do that quickly in a sec, I'll just show you and then.

A

I've never heard anyone say something about upstream and a Google Doc.

C

Yet so AJ, it's not that it's actually just making sure that indeed doc, you know, since since there's more than one source of anything, one can go missing or needs to be recreated. If we said okay, this is now copied. The pr is open, then what I do is I just go under the version history and say name current version, I just say up this way. If, at any point, this document was edited, we can always refer back to that main version.

C

A

Do we go back to that same version, history, yeah, marking.

C

Right, that's it just you know me being here I guess, but it could be helpful. Edits can happen when you're not looking, sometimes yep.

A

Okay, so we have a pull request, shall I merge it I approved.

E

It excellent its.

A

B

There mission accomplished there's.

A

F

B

Will get that into.

B

Spreadsheet and.

E

Whoops, what they do.

B

Okay, so there we have seven, two, five, eight nine that are ready based on either updates or newly developed. There I mean.

E

B

B

There gonna be any I guess. Maybe one of the questions for you Georg. Is there anything next week that is worth pursuing or I mean at what point? Do you think we kind of call a halt to actually working on the metrics I mean it's been time, perhaps the badging program, or something like that.

A

Is there something to do with the budget project Thanks I.

B

Don't know that we just start talking about it more actively or something along those lines, because we've just been spending a lot of time on metrics, so I guess the question would be. Do we want to pursue another one? Next week, I.

A

Won't do it one last push next week make sure that everything is okay and if we can get one more in that's great, maybe.

A

Yeah, you know the documentation, we started from that several times. May.

B

Give a Google Doc for that.

A

Let's see yes,.

A

A

Was where we left off last week? Okay,.

B

Okay, well, so why don't I put that in there the Google Doc is now in the spreadsheet, the tracking spreadsheet. You know what I mean, so we couldn't do that next week. You.

A

Know! Okay, because yeah, but already so much effort into it, would just be nice to.

E

Next week, all right: well, let's do that I mean we're at the top of our hour here so yeah.

A

I agree all right anything else. Nicole did you have anything you wanted to bring up I.

F

Know at this point you guys making significant progress so no I I. Think for me at this point all.

A

F

C

A year ago, I just want one one I think.