CHAOSS DEI Working Group, 6 May 2020

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From YouTube: CHAOSS.D&I.May.6.2020

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CHAOSS.D&I.May.6.2020

A

So welcome to may 6. This is the chaos, diversity and inclusion group meetings and it's good to see everybody so I know a couple of people had introduced themselves on the community call and looking at you Samantha and looking at you Miriam. So could you just say hello again: it's really nice to have you here.

B

Yeah hi, my name is Miriam gosani I'm second year PhD student Oregon, State, University, I I'm in computer science, in my main research area, kind of globally is inclusivity and open source and how to like onboarding new comers. So this work is like really really interesting to me. So yeah awesome.

A

Nice to have you here, Samantha.

A

May be frozen at the moment right.

C

A

Know you're there you got it, you know it all. Unhinged somewhere in the internet,.

C

Could you hear, did you hear what I said so far? No.

A

C

No okay, over I'm, Samantha and I'm, a community advocate on the community relations team at get loud and right now, I'm doing a like professional development project. In my role just trying to learn more about open source projects cuz.

C

This is my first role where I'm working with open source communities and just like as a human being I'm really interested in diversity and inclusion, and so I'm really excited to kind of see what this working group is all about and learn what it's like to be part of an open-source community while I'm also learning more about diversity and inclusion, and how I can implement that in my role, so yeah glad to be here. Thank you later.

A

On they stab you here and then some kind of exciting news, so Tola you want to say hi and Tola is a new ricci student. So Tola was accepted to the outreach e program and be working on some of the work inside of the DNI working group. So tol.

D

D

My name is Paula ecology, I got accepted to the ayam outreach as an intern for me to August, so I'm, working with Kaos on budget. That was it's an English onion bhaji they're very.

A

Excited to have you so that's for sure.

D

A

Yo yeah, you bet, you know we'll talk about the badging program a little bit today too, and then ask are you? Are you Ron right now.

A

D

E

Right so I am a google Summer of Code student developer and right I'll be working for the summer towards building a workflow for padding and I'm super excited about this project. Yeah.

A

So Astor's joining us as a participant in google Summer of Code and also working on the the badging program, I kind of being led by Saleh and Matt Snell, like I, said we'll talk about that in a little bit, so welcome Austin welcome Tola cool.

A

So if you take a look at the I'll share, my screen here real briefly.

A

So one of the things we'll take care of is is Matt. You had agreed to facilitate this meeting next week, so I've got you down, there is facilitator and the D and I work in a group we like to rotate facilitation.

A

So just it is a facilitator just so you know it's mostly just kind of helping. You guys keep on track with the agenda. So it's not that you have to prepare too much ahead of time. So one of the things we'll take a look at a few things here.

A

One of the first was there's a new metric called inclusive leadership, and this metric was put forward by Emma Irwin, who is mozilla and there's been some discussion going on so improve for folks that are joining here. So the all the metrics follow a similar kind of process. Okay, so we follow. What's called a goal, question metric approach, and so one of the things in the chaos project as a whole is we don't necessarily just aim to develop a metric for metric sake, so it's not metric first.

A

So the idea here is that we have a goal that we're trying to accomplish that: it's usually a fairly high level goal so, for example, improving with respect to DNI with a goal could be improving diversity and inclusion at events right that would be a high level goal. A high level goal could also be improving diversity and inclusion within leadership of an open-source project right, so it could be kind of these high level goals, and then we ask ourselves a series of questions within those goals.

A

So a goal question and the question say with events- would be our attendee demographics tracked at an event. Is that something that that would be a question that would help you understand their personal diversity and inclusion with an event a little bit better or is the event family-friendly? You know: do they provide family-friendly services, which there's a question that you would ask again understand the goal of event: diversity, inclusion, a bit better.

A

So so then that's the goal question and then then it's only then that we ask ourselves what would be a metric that could be used to help answer that question. So if it's about attendee demographics right, what are the the metrics that we need? Well, attendee demographic could be a metric, and so what would be the one of the metrics that we need to help answer those particular questions? So all of our metrics follow this goal. Question metric approach, not all technical, a little bit more, and so what you're looking at here is a.

A

Metric being put forward by EMA, which is under the focus area of leadership, trying to answer this question, how well is the product product product? How well is the project setup for diverse leadership, so this metric would is aiming to answer that question. So then, the way that it works is we have a description. So at the highest level, we have a description of the metric. We have objectives of the metric and all of our metrics follow the same template.

A

This is this. Template needs to be we'll need to work on this a little bit. So this is just a mo kind of putting this out there first and then how we go about actually measuring these metrics all right so like what are the data collection strategies that we could actually put forward to kind of address this question, so I guess maybe I'll open it up for thoughts.

A

This is our first real look at this and I think we may end up having just from a work flow perspective, moving this to a Google Doc, so that we can all kind of work collectively on it. Working in in repositories is a little bit tricky from a collective perspective, all at one time so do any. Does anybody have questions about kind of what what's going on here again just kind of ways we bring that tricks.

A

C

One question just in terms of workflow, so Emma saw this question that the group has posed and said: I have a mess. I have an idea of a metric that could track this and has kind of put together this proposal. They'll ask risks via metric. We could explore okay.

A

Yeah, so let me know so here: I'll stop sharing, but you're in the answer is yes and in fact Emma may have proposed the question as well. So it's not even just a it's question that you've been outstanding within the community. So if I am I'll share, my screening in here.

A

So if we so the chaos website in chaos, type community, /, / metrics- is that if the canonical place where we have metrics and so what's occurring, that the repository aligns closely with what's going on here, but the repository work is very much work in progress, so this is our canonical set. So if I take a look at DNI right in this space right here, if I click on, say DNI, you can see that we have these focus areas that have been developed. So event, diversity is one of the focus areas.

A

Governance is another, and leadership is another all right and so within event, diversity. We have kind of these questions doesn't highlight very well but over on the right-hand column. These are the questions that are being asked. So how does code of conduct at events support diversity and inclusion, and so then we would have a metric that addresses that all right, and so again the goal is: is that we're not simply developing a metric for metrics sake? There were we have a focus area that we're trying to provide transparency on.

A

We have a series of questions that can help reveal that transparency say around event diversity, and then we have metrics that help kind of answer that question so from what I would guess here with with Emma's.

A

This is how well is a project set up for diverse leadership, but this would be a metric that would end up in this focus area, and so we only have two at the moment, mentorship and sponsorship, and you can kind of take a look at those more because so she's advancing a question with an associated metric, which would help reveal better insight around leadership that make sense. It.

C

Does yes, thank you.

A

Yep, you bet, and so I think it's important also to kind of point out that we're all this whole thing is a work in progress right, the entire chaos project and so as say, Samantha or a mere toll or whomever.

C

A

Have a focus area even at the highest level that they think would be important for D&I. Please bring it forward, that's absolutely no problem, so we don't have. We don't have like a set of focus areas that must occur or within a focus area. If there's a question that you think can further shed light on how we understand DNI from a governance perspective, please bring it forward right.

A

So that's kind of how we operate and so a lot of what you'll see today is kind of at the lowest level of looking at what our metrics being brought forward by people and thinking about where they would fit from a focus area. Perspective, cool.

F

A

On all right, so I'm gonna from the.

A

If you take a look at that the leadership principles, one I'm actually gonna hold off on kind of exploring this in a lot of detail, I think there's a few things template wise that need to be updated on this also I'll share my screening and one of the things we also try to focus on is brevity, so I think one of the challenges that we have in the chaos project is if our metrics are too complicated, they get to be somewhat overwhelming in terms of how to approach them.

A

So we're always trying to balance, say a metric around event, diversity that is readable and approachable and understandable as a way to gather so I think. My recommendation at this point is to remove this metric into a Google Doc and we can iterate on it a little bit more easily.

A

Do people have thoughts on that and we can. We can pick up this iteration next week. Very cool and I'm gonna put that as an action item for myself and just in the minutes that we just kind of a sign to dues for people. I.

G

Do have something to mention about this metric that I found really interesting, yeah examples of leadership, role, section towards the top I guess, when I think of leadership, I, normally think of like chief something officer or like someone who's way up in there like a top level, and really it can be as as far as someone that's just leading someone else in something so that I find that it kind of opened my eyes a little bit more about that which part of it was a theme.

A

G

Examples will be, it grows like a project, it has a project. Maintainer I could be a leader in that respect or someone who thought a pull request to a project.

A

Thank you all right. Any other comments on this.

A

And again, for those of you that are newer, kind of just training only ask questions: that's what these sessions are for other % they. These aren't always just working sessions. All right next on the agenda is, does does DNI badging. Have any updates and I'll explain what this is? If you do have updates well,.

G

We are scheduling our meetings- okay and in the community bonding period right now. I guess that kind of goes for both awesome Tola here that we're getting ready to start work on the project. It's going to be a little bit, but we're kind of working out. The semantics right now really excited okay,.

A

And so just very specific for people here, so a lot of them metrics that are developed in the chaos.

C

A

Have the opportunity to be deployed via software, so tools like grimore lab and augur can deploy metrics right. So you can it's like a say. It's like age of an issue, perhaps right, and so that's an that's its trace data that you can get online, but clearly DNI metrics. Don't you can't do that very often with DNI, metrics, right and so part of in the Kaos project?

A

Not only are we looking at the development of the metrics, but thinking about how we can actually build systems that put these metrics in the hands of people, so they can have an impact in the world right. So so the DNI badging project is a way for us to specifically at this point share my screen again specifically move the event: diversity metrics into the hands of people. So the idea would be is that an event could request a diversity and inclusion badge from the Kaos project, demonstrating that they are being attentive to attendee demographics.

A

They have a code of conduct at their event, they provide diversity, access to tickets, they're, family-friendly and they're, attentive to speaker, demographics, so as an event which are obviously a little bit on hold right now, but as an event, you would apply for a DNI, a Kaos DNI events, badge right, and so what Matt, hasta, Toula and Saleh are working on is the workflow, by which an event would submit a request for a badge by which the review would occur. So somebody externally would review you know.

A

So if an event says yes, we have a code of conduct, that's great, but can you provide a link to the code of conduct and somebody would provide a review of that and then based on providing the proper information so demonstrating how they're collecting attendee demographics a badge is then awarded to that event all right, so we can't do this via software right there, no piece of software that can really collect this information so in the cash project we're building a process by which events could get a badge, and so those four folks that I mentioned throughout Ricci for google Summer of Code and just through the cash project or building the workflow to get this done.

A

Does that make sense.

G

Folks and in case anyone's interested on sharing the the second link, there is the the prototype of what we have to do people to fill out at this point. So Matt do you want.

A

To do you want to show it real quickly for folks, yeah sure I can't relax screen I have to make you co-host.

A

All right, you should have screen share capabilities now: okay,.

G

um The screen so if I want to create the porthos I, basically, if I gone, create a name for request, I will just have there's a there's, a template that you follow here, that I'll go back to the actual template, but you it gives notes on how to fill it out and what's required.

G

So if you, if you go to the github section in the poorer class template, this is a little more laid out version of what you fill out and then it will show the answers that you provide here and then that request is that pull request is brought to well, we haven't worked out a lot of the editorial workflow yet, but we basically have someone look at it and say: are these things true? Are they being honest and are these are satisfactory results that we have so right now?

G

The way we have it set up is like in a net diversity, inclusion, there's. This is kind of what one of the badges may look like, and if you go into the actual diversity inclusion across the story, it has more of an explanation of how this process works. So far.

G

So if you meet at least three requirements satisfactorily, you'll have a passing badge. If, for you have a soul, all of them I met, you have a gold badge and we have yet to update these for a while, but we are going to be working on the work with buses over this whole summer.

G

No cool thanks.

A

And I'll add we're working with, because the chaos project is a Linux Foundation project. We are working with what is it? It's, not compliance folks of the Linux Foundation just to make sure that we're kind of following a process correctly here and we have proper documentation. You mean conformance yet conformance. That's the word. I I knew as a C, so we're like we're working with folks of the Linux Foundation regarding conformance.

H

A

Conformance processes that they have so we're kind of aligning the work in the chaos project around D and I, along with the conformance issues at the Linux Foundation. So any questions on this.

A

H

About this PR you review it, I mean artificially or you are building some automatic boats to review those PRS I.

G

See not much automation to go into this because at one point will have to be reviewed by a person, and a lot of these checks can be made on the website of the event or project that we're looking at. So a lot of these checks, I think, would be a lot of time put into automating it, but the time could be split among just checking the parties.

H

There's some way that some some answers for the questions could be preset like like.

H

If you answer yes and you can't get two points, if you answer now, you have zero points and we can add them together to got some total points like that. Yeah.

G

That's a good recommendation, so I'm tidal automatically and then we double check it. Yeah.

H

G

That's a good idea: hasta take notes.

A

Somebody taking did somebody get that note down up on it in the Google Doc, okay, a.

A

New thing for the recommendation yeah with the badging process. Ultimately it does require a person to do the work. That's pretty important from a DNI perspective. That's but I do think. It raises an interesting question that one of the challenges is finding enough people who are willing to participate in the editorial review of a request, the hurdle that we'll have to cross at some point.

A

Any other comments.

B

Are these going to be I'll always like reviewed from a pull request, or is this going to be like on a website eventually for like the whole process, yeah.

A

Good question I, like matte or solid yeah,.

G

Right now we have a list, a public getting out lists on the ends, both the event and project repositories, that kind of slip them off and we have what the project is, what not, what line number there and what what dad's they got and then that badge will be hopefully eventually, where we're looking at having that badge be only displayable on their site and then link to that part of the repository where it shows that list. When you always have other formats, you can put it into, though I think.

A

The question was I think it was more along. The lines of the request process is I. Think what you're getting at so is. It is the request processed via a PR, or could it be done via okay, so the.

G

Request process is via a pull request right now in github, and we were looking at issues initially, but the poor requests fit the need for what we had a lot more than the issue. Would at that time, do you have thoughts on that Miriam.

B

I was just thinking if like if an event doesn't necessarily like have a page or even like uses github at all. It might be like a stretch for them to go and feel a pull request. I might not be comfortable doing that, so maybe having something on a web site very visible thing apply for the badge might be like easier. Maybe.

G

That's a good point: yeah I.

G

Don't have anything to say to that right now, but that's a that's something. I have to think on and chew on for a bit.

E

Folks to apply so yeah I.

A

D

A

You I mean I, think it would be fairly easy. Can you make a web page that would issue.

G

A PR yeah I've done that with the web extend that web extinction for global consent manager. We did that already for an issue, so it wouldn't be too hard. Yeah.

A

And so then, maybe the initial request is of my page or a PR, your choice right, but the review process I think, is still going to occur. One of the things we want is the review process to occur publicly and in the open, and it's meant to be a developmental process not like a you, did poorly kind of process but to occur openly. So everybody can have a record of of the conversation. I think that's really important.

F

As well so I'm gonna, chime in I, guess thirty minutes of being distracted and trying to keep up is more than enough. We only have an hour so yeah, so I think we've we've explored. This idea of web form starts a PR. Pr is the process we want to keep. Pr is a transferable process, but in terms of open source, it's the more Universal, the more Universal transparent interaction between individual on a particular goal.

F

So anyone an opensource will kind of have to know a little bit how PRS work and that will definitely be helped by simplifying the form that you used to start the PR so so yeah sorry I was very distracted and I just want to say that I want to definitely work with Matt on that, and you want to use web components and not use like framework so that it's as universal as possible.

A

Okay, yeah excel all right, any other, any other comments on the badging or updates again well, camasta and Tola. We're really happy to have you here as part of our treaty and Google Summer of Code participating on this project.

A

Ok, so then, the last thing in sight, a couple of you just join up with the minutes in here again for everybody.

A

So then the last thing is, if you okay, so this is kind of whip, latching we're going back to metrics here in a second or right now, okay, so then the typical work flow in terms of developing a metric is we start the conversation in a Google Doc. So if you can see I'm going to start inserting page numbers on all of these.

A

So at the top of page two in the minutes, there's a Google, Doc and I'll put it in the chat here as well.

A

So what you're looking at here is actually three different metrics answering three different questions, and somebody could tell me why why this became three metric, so I think from what I remember is. There was one metric that was originally around documentation, accessibility, if I recall- and it was like- really dense and very overloaded- and there were a lot of different ideas in there and the recommendation was to split it up into three different metrics. That could be a little bit more precise in what they were trying to say am I, remembering that right, yeah.

I

Absolutely that that metric just got so huge that it at some point it became obvious that that was not a single metric. Okay.

A

From what I, what I recall- and somebody can remind me from last week- we are essentially done with documentation usability, so the first metric has been iterated on for the last couple of weeks that it's probably ready. So the workflow would then take that top metric, which is on pages one and two down through resources, and we would turn that into a markdown file and then issue a pull request and open it up for public comment. So we kind of finalize things here in the word doc or in the Google Doc is aimy.

A

Aimy I, don't know if you're in talkable mode, but did we were we on documentation discoverability last week or salary.

J

Caused problems and I keep getting us stuck on the reachability, t1 I. Don't think, we've really finished it. Okay,.

A

Is which one is reach ability? The.

J

One in the middle that used to be usability.

A

When I'm super confused, alright.

J

Hang on, let me get to a conclusion: yeah, the other one, just a bit. Okay, let me switch to computer zoom, okay, actually, which, which document are we looking at the Google Doc yeah.

A

So I do you have chat? I can put it back in the chat for you. If you'd like.

J

Got it okay, so I keep tabs open. We start with the documentation usability. That's then the second one or documentation, discoverability I, don't know what we've totally edited this section down. That's.

A

What I thought? Okay.

J

I've been a meeting since 7 a.m. central, no.

A

Problem actually look I made a note to myself that we pick it up at that spot.

J

A

Gosh, why did I hey? You could have just read my own notes, alright, so, okay, so here's where we could maybe do even just a little bit of work. We've been working on this for quite a bit and I wanted to kind of introduce a few other things first, but.

A

Could could I ask so what we normally do is is that we just kind of go silent for like five minutes or so and start reading from documentation discoverability the top of page, four and I think we've we've worked on the description and the objectives pretty well. So again, what is the description of this metric and what are the objectives that it's trying to achieve? I think we were getting kind of hung up on data collection strategies. Is that right, Amy.

J

Yeah, that's where we left off: okay,.

A

So maybe I could give you just five minutes to start kind of reading.

C

A

Let's see if you have comments and feel free to just track your changes right in this document, we'll come back in about five minutes.

F

F

F

A

Give me about one more minute here.

A

J

Matthieu look.

A

J

Look like you were frozen on the screen. I was.

A

A

Alright, so we know the number of comments. Thank you so.

A

Let's see dawn, do you want to mention anything explicit that you had put in there I.

I

Did I did update the question when it said from a technical perspective, I thought that that meant like, like the technology, that's being talked about in the documentation and so I added technical accessibility perspective just to make that a little less ambiguous. Okay,.

A

I

Haven't participated in any of the other conversations, so I'm not sure how much if any of this has talked about before. Okay.

A

Comments but I'll move through Samantha come in yeah.

C

I just had a question, and maybe my question shouldn't start with, can but I'm wondering if this metric or perhaps lives in another metric measures like the different types or the different formats that documentation content is presented in it might live in another metric that I'm just not aware of.

A

I'm gonna pair I'm, gonna kind of build off of that so hold on. Just just I can ask you have any comments or it looks like a lot of yours or grammar oriented.

I

And another quick comment in the objective section kind of around: where Samantha's comment was the portability one, it just says: documentation is easy to access and view I, don't I'm, not sure that gets at portability, I'm, not even sure, exactly what we mean by portability and that sentence doesn't help me. I also don't know how to fix this so I'm, just just poking at stuff.

G

Would it be either the documentation is easy to move to another format or wouldn't be like move to another device, not sure.

A

That's typically, what I think of as portability do you yeah.

I

I would say, moved to another format or device. I mean I think it could be either.

A

So I had one comment and I think it's kind of related to Samantha's, which is when I was reading. This I had us sometimes a hard time understanding if this was about discoverability within a document or the discoverability of documents within a project. I think.

F

Discoverability is it's the ability to discover a documentation that is relevant to something you're doing in the project? Okay. So it's it's a universal concept, because I can get a URL that basically points me to a paragraph somewhere in the documentation or I can use. I can go to the documentation itself and ask for that's just a paragraph from search or something like that. So discoverability is that it is. It is something that you don't need to like go in.

C

F

To to access it, it's actually discoverable wherever you are, so it's a universal thing, guy I believe so is it about the project. um It's about the documentation pertaining to the project for the harbor's, collaborating in general or whoever is consuming the projects and outputs or yeah.

A

So would it so if I look at see the bottom of page four, so I don't know if you have a screen in front of you, yeah.

F

A

So see this bullet point that I just highlighted yeah.

F

I'm just trying to navigate to where it says page, four. Okay, so can you highlight yeah.

A

Yeah yeah I see you yeah, so the documentation in the project.

F

So the document, the project's documentation, I, think we don't want to save the documentation in the project, but whatever documentation is made available to a participant in the project or a stakeholder or some sort of the part that.

A

Helps me a bit because this is about project documentation. I was having this when I would read. Sometimes it's like I was stuck in a if I'm, given a PhD dissertation right. How easy can.

F

A

Navigate that thing versus.

F

Okay, so I think we, if we're going with the idea that users are stakeholders and open source I mean they are stakeholders supposedly everywhere, but then then, yes, so so even end user documentation would be considered project documentation at that point, and so.

A

Then this survey at the top of page five, starts to make more sense to me.

F

Yeah so so yeah I, guess I guess: I I see now, where you're trying to connect the dots so so we're basically trying to tell a person who's following this metric anything documentation, you do in the project. You know so so break it down whatever. When you survey members you're surveying them on contribution related documentation, oh okay, right, yes, and but but now, if you're going to survey you might as well. So if you have user documentation, you might as well survey a sample out there with that sense.

A

It does so it does it at the top of page four, where the title is mmm-hmm I added the word project.

F

Yeah so so I I see now that are we saying we're: gonna have different metrics or like user documentation versus collaborator documentation. Well so.

A

The so one of the challenges that I'm having I'm sorry to kind of push on this, but one of the challenges I'm having is when this is all one metric right. It was overloaded and then we broke it down into three metrics and there seems to be overlap between the three metrics and I'm, having a really hard time, always separating out what those three metrics are. So it's like this accordion that kind of keeps going on in my head, which.

J

Is why we can't get past this one section it seems, but what about spaying documentation within the project that would cover or about the project, so that would cover you contributions guides whatever? Would that help at all? It.

A

Does that does help me because then it's about discoverability of documents within the project and then the first metric, which is about documentation usability, is about the documents themselves. It's just it's about art. Our yurt is. Are the documents usable.

F

So so here's what I've been feeling all along when we decided to split those into this into three I always felt this synergy aspect like you need to have a overview like a big picture, understanding of documentation, as as a pair a set of three interconnected metrics. You know a not need all three, but you must know what is not part of one and is actually part of the other two. In order for you to say, I just want to do that one.

F

So we kind of want to have a a central readme for the metrics. Then you know once you've read this and you understood exactly everything you don't want. Then now you know exactly what you want and you can now head on.

C

F

So that is not a pattern we've used before and and and I keep raising this and discussions because I I, just you know, I see how it's gonna be hard to divide them. If we keep forgetting what we did not find a place to write down every meeting, okay.

A

um So we're at the end of our meeting, because we like to stop with ten minutes to go kids solid could I. Do you have an image of what that might look like in your head.

F

So so I've been wanting to give this time. So how about I do something like I copy this doc over and create a second copy and then I hack at this until next Wednesday? That would be super helpful that we're not really beautiful, yeah, so yeah yeah. So once I do that, hopefully it will be done by Sunday and then would give folks time to check it if they want, because take a.

A

Look at it that would be really great, because I'm super important in around documentation and it's it's tricky. This is so yeah interconnected, yeah, yeah, yeah all right well again, we're at the end of our our time. Just so people can catch a break. It's really great to see everybody on this call. So thank you for coming and hope to see you next week or on the community collar wherever it is again. So great, we'll see you all a bit later, thanks.

I

Everybody thank you.