CHAOSS DEI Working Group, 14 Oct 2020

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From YouTube: CHAOSS.D&I.October.14.2020

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CHAOSS.D&I.October.14.2020

A

Welcome everyone to our chaos, diversity and inclusion working group meeting. um Is anyone interested in being facilitator next week.

B

I heard there was something going on next week during this time, but I'm not, I don't think I was planning on it. So I can facilitate next week.

A

Next week is all things open on monday and tuesday, I don't have anything on wednesday.

B

Okay, I'm still willing to facilitate on that one.

A

Awesome, thank you matt, a quick reminder that our chaos, zoom information, is going to change. In two weeks november, 1st we will update the website the meeting minutes, the repositories, the newsletter everywhere, where we have the zoom link. If we forget a few locations, sorry about that, we'll fix that as soon as we can so just be be mindful about that.

A

Last week we finalized project burnout. We have a pull request open and there have been no comments speaking out against merging this any concerns.

A

That you have otherwise I will just go ahead and merge.

A

A

Awesome, thank you I'll. Just click the button to merge it done now. Oh amy is joining us.

C

D

A

Here I'm sharing my window, so we just merged the project burnout metric that we finalized last week. So now we need to um your next.

A

We steps to create an issue for comments and we need to add metric to website which requires, along with website access to do that um and then today we wanted to work on advance. We want to advance the documentation, accessibility, metric other other things. Anyone wanted to work on I'll talk about.

B

Well, I had some updates on badging, but that will be probably at the end.

B

A

A

Update ruth thanks for joining us.

D

Yeah hi everyone.

A

We just merged the burnout metric to the repository, and now we need to put that on the website to start the comment period, I'm creating the.

D

Issue in case anybody.

B

D

Yeah, thank you. I need to show my video to my smile.

A

Yeah, it's really good work. Thank you for moving that along and advancing that with us.

A

And so for today we wanted to work on the documentation, accessibility.

A

A

A little background to this metric, we have worked on the documentation metric and last before the last metric release. We defined some more um and we actually took the documentation, metric and split it into three, because there was so much going on and we published the documentation usability.

A

So that's the one we published and now the accessibility is the second set of the metric and, to be honest, I haven't looked at this in several weeks, so I propose that we take some time to read it.

A

I can pause the recording in the meantime and we get back together in a couple of minutes after we all had a chance to refresh in our memory and feel free to make changes, make suggestions in the.

A

Document so we resumed the recording to discuss the edits and changes and thoughts we had on the documentation, accessibility metric um here I can share my screen that way, we're all on the same.

A

A

So, starting at or before I go linearly through here is any thoughts feedback that anyone would like to mention.

B

Just so we got a lot of comments. It spans more than the length of the document, which is good.

E

But on the other hand, the document's pretty good and most of the comments are little wording changes which is nice.

A

Yep, I I also thought when I was reading through it that hey, we already put a lot of work into this. It's amazing, so let's uh clean up the language and then hopefully release it soon.

A

So the first one here was that it sounded awkward. The question.

E

Yeah the original question.

C

E

What is the accessibility of documentation to accommodate different users, which just felt I don't know just for some reason? It didn't flow very well.

A

Also kind of recursive documentation, accessibility. What is the accessibility.

A

So the proposal is what no, how does the documentation accommodate different users, I'm okay with that.

E

That sounds good.

A

Awesome, thank you and we got that take care of the description. Documentation. Accessibility is critical due to the role documentation plays in open source projects.

A

Users of documentation have different abilities requiring it to be offered in different formats to be equally empowering for these different users.

A

Okay, I see thank you requiring the documentation to be offered yep.

A

Sorry, I removed your your comment. What was the comment you had here? Oh.

B

It was that um it was in the last sentence of that paragraph talking about how the presentation is a little issue. First, in some places where they talk about the problems that are presented before we talk about the solutions which is more of a structural kind of, I guess, issue to pose.

A

So it's the idea to switch around the parts of the sentence.

B

Yeah, not necessarily the the the parts of the sentence like the way we present it. As far as um we talk about what issues we need to solve, rather than uh what the what the positive like kind of goal is, I don't know it's more of a preference to me.

A

So we can take this part here.

A

And say the goal to foster understanding for the widest audience of contribution to a project.

A

Requires documentation, accessibility,.

A

B

Solving issues.

A

Of presentation alternate.

A

A

Does this get to your point, yeah.

B

That makes sense, um I don't know I always. I always try to word it with. um Instead of pointing out the issue and then saying this is what solves it? I don't know it's it's. It may just be me, but.

B

Okay, that makes sense to me.

A

Does anyone else have a thought on the.

A

A

I feel like we already set here different formats, equally empowering to different users, so I almost want to remove this part.

E

Yeah, I actually like shortening it.

A

All right shorter is better, then I know you have to drop off in a moment. So thank you for joining us today. Did you want to say anything before you head out.

E

No, this is looking great, though um thanks everybody for all the all the work you put into it. I think it's looking good.

A

Awesome. Thank you.

E

A

A

Objectives, um I mentioned the reference that went missing and copy pasting this over. So we have to look that up. Thank you, matt. I don't know. If that's the, where did you get that reference.

B

I googled the sentence and I found that as the first result and it matched pretty well, so I figured that might be useful.

B

That's what I said possibly.

A

A

Documentation where's our old documentation, metric.

A

D

Oh, you should, if we erased it from the page, you might be able to find it in an earlier version.

A

um I was looking here at the original document where this came from wow. That makes sense, but this is not well organized, so I'm gonna try amy's suggestion to look at the edit history and because this was copied from another document, we don't have anything in the edit history.

A

That was a good good idea.

A

So anyway, I don't want to go hunting for it right now, um just something we need to.

A

A

Lying to a visual.

A

A

We have here, documentation is accessible for people who primarily read text. Okay,.

A

And then charts and graphics are.

A

So I I see matthew again wanting to put examples for accessible documentation. Instead.

A

But isn't that what we already have here saying that hey text is more accessible and we just wanted to say: hey, charts and graphics are not accessible. That.

B

Makes sense yeah, I I kind of think of it, like I can't think of anything, that's specifically accessible without going into the details of what those parts are made of, so that I was just kind of putting my thoughts out.

A

There yeah and is it charts and graphs or charts and graphics, because.

B

We do have a question.

A

Yeah we do have images, we can just charts and images. Graphs sounds too much statistics presentation of data like, but we sometimes do have images or screenshots.

A

How about that images instead of graphs.

A

A

Right the next thing here.

A

Don recommends getting rid of the entire sentence. I always like shortening so, let's.

C

A

What this note is be attentive to the target audiences for documentation due to the broad spectrum of projects and people who may contribute documentation should address the different requirements of all its audiences work should be focused on understanding the ways in which documentation helps yeah. I don't even understand this full sentence here so.

A

Done next we have data collection strategies. You can have some references that when missing, we need to look those up and then amy. You have some comments here to determine, if would need an is before screen reader.

D

Yeah so just rewording it, and then I realized that if we change that to determine, if so, it would read use a tool that evaluates screen reader friendliness to determine if the documentation is screen. Reader friendly.

A

To determine if the documentation.

D

And then, if you make the earlier change, you need an is there yeah.

A

Okay, I think that's a great suggestion.

D

I mean we're really nitpicking on the doc. At this point,.

A

E

A

Interview newcomers to figure out how documentation helped with understanding the contribution process and or helping to complete the task.

A

Helping to helping complete the task, what task.

A

A

Project: how about that understanding the contribution process and or helping to complete tasks in a project sample questions.

A

What is your experience with using the documentation to understand the contribution process? What is your experience with consulting the documentation when you have a question about doing work in the community?

A

Should we do this project or community? We could align this here.

B

Wouldn't community have a larger scope in this case.

A

Yeah, but we always say, contribute to the project everywhere else. Apparently,.

A

We use community only once and project nine times, so I would replace this.

A

Where can you comfort, were you comfortable with the technical terms present in the documentation? I think that reads better.

A

And just clear.

A

Irc is instant relay chat and a well known term.

A

B

It seems like a lot of these questions, we're going to hear like we have a dense amount of kind of grammar, syntax kind of questions, or I mean um points in the document.

B

um So I don't know like it seems like there's a lot to go through for the rest of this meeting.

A

B

I get it down the time, though,.

A

Here uh I suggest replacing irc with instant chat.

A

A

um Since we're talking about avoiding jargon, if rca.

D

Well, it's internet relay chat. If you want to be technical.

A

D

I mean: do we want to just mailing this communication? Do we want to just leave it as a chat communication.

A

D

Like kubernetes is using slack, so I don't know if we want to make it broader in just saying a chat protocol or something like that.

A

I agree so just as a background. These survey questions look very much like what we used in the apache software foundation community survey earlier this year, and so there are terms like pmc that is very specific to apache or irc, which other communities use different tools. So I agree with making it more general.

A

I see anonymous unicorn likes to break out these items.

B

I may or may not be the anonymous unicorn in that case.

A

So yeah I I agree with that, but it also makes the metric longer the document longer which I'm okay, with.

A

A

I'll just go ahead and accept all of.

A

A

See it shows up as matt snell in the comments, but not while you're editing, it's rather peculiar.

B

I think it's from: if you get invited to the document by email, then you show up as your person and if not you're, an anonymous character. If you follow the link, that's what I understand.

A

Yeah I'm going to replace pmc members with maintainers. That's more.

A

Likely something people.

A

Understand all right.

A

Quite difficult, very.

A

A

So and then this I think, should be at a different level.

A

Next ask questions so I did not remember. Maybe someone or maybe one of you remembers what kind of question this is.

A

A

I don't think these are interview questions. I don't think these are survey questions. These are questions we ask ourselves or things that we wanted to check like. Does the documentation use.

A

Headaches so in the propose matt go ahead.

B

I was just saying I agree with that. uh I I looked over these and kind of restructured them and it does not look like someone you'd ask someone something you'd ask someone.

A

Mm-Hmm, what I liked before is that we had these organizing constructs and we point out that hey the point here is to have these organizing constructs, so we're not just saying: does it have headings code blocks bullet points, paragraphs but we're saying we're looking for organizing constructs and then we're giving examples.

A

So I actually would like to keep that somehow.

A

Look for organizing constructs regarding readability and scanability such as, and then yep. I like that. Any other opinions.

A

And then I am going to reject.

A

A

Maybe we can remove the question.

A

A

And and then the next one is again ask.

A

A

D

A

The search ability by.

A

A

By considering how easily can this documentation be found by a user? How easily can the user find.

A

What they require within the documentation yep this document easy to navigate with a keyboard. Oh, I wish I could navigate more with keyboards.

A

And the last ones these are my common or my edit suggestions. Does anyone care.

B

I'm a little worried that we bowled here in the metric, but we don't build anywhere else at the bottom of the page.

A

We had two interviews.

B

Never mind yeah, that's really fine, then.

A

And so I I thought about um keeping the trend or the the building of the different.

A

A

So matt you asked if we need examples for accessibility issues, I don't think we need etc here, um but I do think it's good to let people know what kind of issues that you are asking them about and not leaving it completely open.

A

So I would leave it: okay, no resolved result awesome, so we just need the references and then we would be good to go actually but a very productive session. Today.

A

So, thank you, comments, questions.

A

D

A

We should celebrate.

A

Moving on in the agenda matt, you wanted to give an update on the badging project. We have four minutes.

B

Yes I'll make it quick, then so we have this um badging project that we've been working on an outreach track for talk to more events about getting um reaching out and saying hey. You should apply for a badge for the dna badging project through chaos.

B

So the big thing that we've been doing is we we've had a list. I think that's somewhere in the minutes here, but we've been reaching out to different people. uh If you want to reach out, I can send you that list in the google doc as well, but um I I'm just really happy that we've reached out to a few events and already some of them are saying they're going to apply or the organizers at least so I'm looking forward to getting some applications in, and that's really all I have to report for that.

B

I made it in one minute, so I I really.

C

Just appreciate.

B

The work that everybody's doing on the badging project too- that's it.

A

That's fantastic. um Do you know what the so I I don't actually know how many already submitted requests or do you know what the holdup is or what um slows them down.

B

The like keeping the request from coming in.

A

B

um Well, contrary to how it would be with projects, events are generally uh as f compared to projects are few and far between, but there's still a lot of them out there, and I think, getting our name out there and getting involved with the community in one way or another is the best way that we can get involved on.

B

I don't know I'm trying to say that, like there's, not a lot of big events out there, that would have a committee that would want to submit a badge without knowing too much about the project or submit for a badge. So I think something I overlooked, and a few of us overlooked during the launch of the badging project was that we aren't just going to get applications out of nowhere.

B

We have to talk to people and we have to get our word out so um we're we're actually really do like we're steamrolling the whole outreach process. At this point, we are looking to start a meeting for that because it's become a very important part of the project, so um we're looking for someone to help champion that, but I'm also going to be very involved in it as well. um Okay sounds good um and that's all I have for badging again.

A

Yeah the problem, when you start something like this and no one knows about it, yet it doesn't have brand recognition. Quite yet the I I imagine that event organizers would not know what the trade-off is for investing time to get a badge, and so.

A

It's oh girl schedule, so so when I assume since you're not talking that you're.

C

Talking with my cat's being a butt head, um sorry, my co-worker is being rowdy. I guess that's the other way to say it's like. I keep muting things because he's literally knocked the keyboard off the desk three times during this meeting um yeah, I'm about to lock him out of the room um but uh yeah. No, I'm trying to get the girl scouts on our platform. I don't know if that's gonna happen or not, but one of the things I want to do is badges.

C

For exactly that reason, I think that would get y'all a lot of play. If we talk about things like accessibility, badges and all those different aspects too, so I could see that generating a huge amount of press awesome.

A

C

Is until q1 of next year it's one of the things I want to put in my road map.

B

Oh, we got plenty of time anyway,.

A

A

Okay, well, we are out of time. So thank you, everyone for participating. Today we got a lot of work done and I hope to see you all in a meeting soon.

A

B

D

See you later bye, bye.