CHAOSS DEI Working Group, 8 Apr 2020

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From YouTube: CHAOSS.D&I.April.7.2020

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CHAOSS.D&I.April.7.2020

A

B

Right, I'm off camera for breakfast I.

A

Enjoy the meal.

B

I'm fresh eggs, mm-hmm.

C

I've been so bad I've been eating way too much cereal I. Don't know why I'm like lazier when I'm at home, but there you go well. I've got 13.

B

Chickens, so we have like a dozen eggs a day, plus we're giving away eggs and still have tons of eggs. No I.

C

Wish you were my neighbor actually I was like without legs for like two weeks, it was really funny like the stuff that I couldn't find I couldn't find eggs and I couldn't find popcorn, but I could find like milk and bread and all the other different stuff. But just like those things, I was like out of just weird.

C

Okay, so are you all y'all, both recording, then? Okay, so I have two recordings going.

D

Is this the mandatory beginning of the meeting where we all talk about coronavirus for a certain amount? I'm nice, sweatshirt, Matt.

E

D

Can't find bread, flour, which is very upsetting, because I make homemade bread, yeah.

C

I was just on the phone with Denise Cooper, and she said this. She ordered 25 pounds of bread, flour online.

B

C

She's in Ireland.

E

B

Can't get eggs is because everyone started making bread yeah.

C

It's a big supply chain thing. It was kind of funny everyone likes using quarters and I'm like people aren't hoarding. You know they're just like what, oh, my god, there's probably some I'm like, but if I said it's more about the fact that we've like totally with the supply chain, it's kind of cooling, it there's a couple local restaurants here in Austin who are actually selling their extra, and so you can buy eggs. But you have to buy this flat of eggs. You can't buy like a dozen you're up in Austin yeah.

F

I'm in New Braunfels, oh so, do.

B

C

That's okay, so going over and.

G

I recommend other people at agenda items because no pressure or anything it's my turn to do. The DNI badging I can talk for two hours, but you will probably just get a few good points in the beginning. So and the meeting is one hour but yeah I can still talk to you.

C

Okay, so it looks like everybody is signing in.

A

You want to maybe share yours, so everyone can follow along sure.

C

All right, so everybody is signing in so they're all y'all. There have already been very well trained and so yeah, so I'm figuring out the different topics and then and adding some of those in like he was just requesting.

C

D

Someone put a link: are you in the meeting minutes in the chat, just the links that are in the invite are all scurry for me, so that would just be helpful. Thank you. Yeah.

C

Yeah so I'm sharing that but there but I did post it in the chat that I'll repost it in case. So thanks George yeah, because the thing is people it doesn't save the chat. You can't look at the old chat when you log in later, which is a little awkward.

C

So oh there's a bitly.

C

Okay, so it looks like the main one that we have a community manager position.

C

Is that like an official hired position or is that a volunteer position or I'll.

E

Let me talk about it. Yeah.

C

Let's go ahead and start off there at well, everyone's like signing, there's certain yeah.

E

So I just I'm kind of mentioning this in all of the working groups, so we sean Goggins and I receive funding from the alfred sloan foundation to hire a part-time chaos community manager for the next three years. So we're gonna. Do it we're putting together a position description and then we'll do an open call for this position. So I just I only just necessarily a DNI issue.

E

I just wanted to bring it to every working group, because a lot of you are all well-connected and know people who may have an interest in such a such a thing. That's it. If you have questions yes, yeah is.

C

There, like a link where people can go to or it's it's too nice yet at this point, yeah.

E

To noose him I will put together the description and then I think we'll just put it on I'm, guessing like indeed somewhere that people can apply.

G

Sorry can I ask you like what what does the title generally refer to.

E

So in this, in this case, it would be for a an individual who helps grow and manage the chaos project across all working groups.

E

So it's helping with I, don't want to kind of over specify the position but helping with say events helping with repository management, helping with outreach helping with release cadence of metrics and just kind of the the workings of the project, the they need to be done on a daily and weekly basis.

E

It's so it's not necessarily.

G

E

A particular piece of software, it's across the community as a whole. We.

B

Used to refer to it as care and nurturing and hurting kittens that's.

E

B

Fun I did hit my last job. That's what it is so is.

H

There some marketing to that as well.

E

Yeah so I yeah I mean so again, I haven't we haven't. There's a group of us. We haven't necessarily specified the position fully but yeah. It's.

G

An it it's a part-time position, yeah.

E

Yep, it's a perfect time position three years, it's not attached to any other projects, just chaos. Well, at the moment, yeah just chaos. Okay I mean it has to be an open call, so I mean if somebody was no we're, definitely not attached to another project, but if this part-time person was working in another project, part-time, great.

C

Other questions about it.

C

Great then, we should probably go into badging.

G

Yeah, so so I guess yeah. It's on me to kind of give a little summary of the Congress with it. So, first of all, we're really happy to work with Austin Tola those two weeks. Definitely we we moved to weekly meetings on Sundays and we've been doing that I guess for at least two or three Sundays and a lot of great work went to the proposals.

G

We also had a few agenda items. You know addressing I guess where we're standing right now is between the proof of concept which we did, and you know on that. We started to think okay. How do we move to having an an MVP?

G

And this is what we'll focus on I guess in the next few months, and it coincides with the internships and then you know, moving from there we're going to address the more longer-term aspects. You know this. This badging project can have a lot more potential and it will require, you know, gaining a lot of faith with people in the community of an open source at large, and so governance has to you know, be considered, and you know all these aspects that people look for in any open source effort in order to gain.

G

You know to give it their trust. Those are considered. I guess you know, act after the intern. Ships are over. That would be the transition time.

G

So one one big thing we really don't want to touch right now is get lab, because it's it's a little premature to say how are we going to transition, something that we're still really not sure how it looks to a different place?

G

So we can argue well why don't we just start there and see how things you know, look and I think we're only just building momentum, and if you take that momentum- and you say, let's start over I'm- not sure that that would be healthy for the few folks who are you know trying to get this together, so I think we should use that momentum. We have opportunities right now for the internships and we don't want to you know be too distracted from making them all count so yeah.

G

So basically that was the summary of what we did over the past two weeks. I think Matt has some details about get lab and maybe badging templates so Matt. The.

H

Owner everyone hurt yeah can hear me yeah, okay, so I just had a couple things. The Gulag parody document is very simple right now, I wrote it up in a short period of time, but I wanted to share it in case anybody has anything to add to it or anything to change about it feel free. It's it's just to explain how it would be different for us between the the gitlab implementation that you have implementation, I think the main part for most people, as it wouldn't have get loud.

H

Slash badging like we do get hub, slash badging, but the other part was badging. Template is a repository that we've opened now. We've had it for a little while, which is called template, added a lot more details to it. So you can have a home kind of repository and a submission repository in case. Anybody else wants to start their own program based on what we have, but it's going to be updated pretty constantly as we update the d-mat badging program or maybe on a kind of a rolling basis, but we've got that started.

H

So that's good and we're also here to take questions about any of this as well. I think that's all I have for now.

E

I have some questions yeah. So in terms of the the process, by which say an event, would request a DNI badge.

E

E

Do you have that process? We sort of modeled out at this point by which you know say there would be a request. There would be a review of that. You know that request would be assigned there, be.

G

E

Request, do you have, is that not just doc you'd die aground, but is it starting to work even on github um we have some.

H

E

H

Our submissions for you, Oh somewhere, could not reach you that that really um lay out the framework of how that's going to happen and like kind of in a rough way. But we we want to as I understand it, we're trying to wait to build out that workflow process until the summer, where we have people to work with that that are willing to put in that kind of work to to make that framework. And then we can roll the.

H

We were looking at building a framework repository specifically built around kind of like a handbook that hadn't.

D

H

Renovating program based on our parameters, yeah.

G

So so I can have a little bit there, so we did in the POC model this and we had, like you know very, very simple. You know bullet form instructions and what we, what we tried is the micro tasks gave us an opportunity to see how how much more verbose the documentation may need to be. How much you know. So there are many moving targets.

G

There are many stakeholders, not just a person who is applying, but there's the review review process and then there's like the potential that you have many badges coming for events, because you have peak events, seasons right so so there are seasons where people basically will be needed to review a lot of applications.

G

So so the question you know of whether or not documentation will result in issues being open or mistakes being made on applications. All those have to kind of be factored into the framework, so so I think the plc was ideal to just tell us that there could be a very, very clean process. If people follow the process now now he since then, we asked ourselves. Okay, you know how much more effort does it take to actually make sure this happens more more. More often than not, and so documentation is crucial.

G

We also believe documentation in in many languages may may be useful, even if the application is always English, it might help to have some sort of guides for those who may be comfortable writing in English application, but may prefer to understand the process better and find English to be. You know a barrier that no matter, however, both you make it. It will just be making it worse for someone.

G

So so you know we're exploring the different aspects to make sure that this is an inclusive, badging program, and you know so I guess it's premature to say: well, if you go here and open a PR, it will work, because you know for someone who doesn't know how that works. It's hard to say it like that and make sure they can actually follow the process. I, guess, yeah, okay,.

E

So the shutting down a few in the notes, so it sounds like the process- is this kind of modeled to this point in the hope is, is that over the summer it can be more formalized in github.

H

Is that right? Yes, for anyone who doesn't know at the moment we're looking at doing a system of um you submit a pull request with information about your adventure project that their diversity, inclusion efforts and then a badge comes from the review of that. Okay.

E

And a lot of a lot of what you were talking about to Sawa was making sure that the documentation is provided appropriately to assist people through that process. Yeah.

G

And also also the idea, if we have international Docs, then, and we will have international, you know, applicants for badges and then sure on this. This would likely be something we want to aim for. Rolling out, you know be being visible. Globally gives a lot of credibility.

G

You know, especially when we're focusing on DNI, but but there's also the other aspect that and thanks a lot to the research.

G

You know that was done by Astra Han by Tola during the proposals when you have a lot of I guess reviewing to you know, plan for you kind of want to have BOTS, and you want those bots to basically not cause more much more noise or more more confusion in the process and hasta, even I, think better than her proposal.

G

She wants to explore the idea to talk to the bots, which I always make as a joke. You know I am oh at the BOTS and they don't response or whatever, but it would be nice if people can ask a question in their PRS and the Bob will be like yeah. Well, we'll help you with that. You know there are humans too, you know so stuff like that, would be nice, but yeah making sure people are guided through the process and reviews timely.

G

It's really priorities for an MVP at this point.

G

G

C

Are there any other questions.

C

And so I had a question in regards to you're looking for help in regards to the governance aspects of this is that what I understood that you were bringing up earlier, I.

G

Think this is post MVP, it's it's a longer term, well, medium-term objective. You know once we have an MVP, and you know that this is you know the framework is documented. We know what we're doing now. We want to know how how we can scale it and have more reviewers involved more participants growing the framework.

G

You know more projects partnering with Kaos and bringing their own badges under the org. So so there's a lot more future priorities which which were kind of a where law, but we're putting off until we have something cannibal so.

C

So it's basically about rolling out the basic badging infrastructure, not necessarily anything in regards to DNI measurement or any of those different aspects. Yet.

G

Potentially, yes, things are not very clear at this point, but but governance will be something to bring back to a DNI meeting. I think at the tail end of you know finishing the MVP.

C

Gotcha, because, like one of the things so I come from a standards group- and you know very careful with badges and certifications and regards to what that is and what it means and how you express that to the different groups has any of that love has any of that type of work been done in regards to it, or you know, are, is D&I helping create that for people or I'm a little confused in regards to what the badges are going to mean yeah.

G

So I think part of that work is happening like so so I guess the focus of the DNR and sorry that badging team. At this point you know like that's, you know what we do on Sundays and in those meetings, it's just just the few of us who are doing the POC or MVP.

G

So so there are, you know, discussions with other members of chaos in general and Matt Matt, G, sorry, so so I I guess you know there are more details than just what we get done on Sunday. That may relate more to to this kind of consideration, but I know for a fact that it is happening so I don't know that helps but I. Think it's more more of the outside. The scope of the Sunday meetings is that what I'm getting at.

I

C

I, like looking at it from like the perspective, is to like this DNI group, where we're sitting there and we're working on. You know what is accessibility and what are the measurements, and how do we go about doing all the measurements and so I'm like I'm? Looking for those integration points right now in regards to how we can how we could better help you with it, you see what I'm saying and I'm I'm I'm a little confused. So that's that's. Why I'm asking these questions I think.

H

The most from the diversity inclusion working group in general, we have on each badging on each badging repository. We have a document that shows what metrics were using from the diversity. Inclusion working group, and that is kind of our integration point- is that we take the information from those and summarize them into single questions. We can ask the organization or event group and and and use that, as kind of guidance for how we ask, and while we ask.

C

So it's like for helping create the survey at the beginning for when y'all go in and do when we actually hand do the the pull requests, what we're sitting there? Looking at all these things about nature, we.

H

Have a template for the pull request that we use for they just kind of fill out an markdown file with comments, and so it helps me put that together. But.

D

H

We use that as a kind of form of this is our guy. That's for submitting a project or event, and it's it's really based on the metrics themselves, which means it's going to change as we change metrics in the diversity inclusion working group to the point where we have something that's kind of more qualified, not.

C

Sure what happens with the badges when that happens, cuz like I, know a CI I. They keep it updated, and so you know you can like get all the way to green and then they add new stuff and you kind of go back to yellow and you have to go back in there and update yourself and then get back over the green. So is there going to be something like that available? I know, that's probably beyond an MVP but yeah.

H

We've been working on a kind of like some documentation on that. It's more related to some like terms and conditions stuff. But we've been looking at the period at which we want to roll over, and we've had some discussion on that so far. But that's what! As far as we've done more like a resubmit at a certain point or you lose the back kind of thing, because.

C

I know that we're ever-evolving in this group, my.

A

Thought on that is. If we are badging you things, then there's a limited usefulness of the badge anyway, so they submit it for one event and you vent is done and then for the next year they need to get a new badge for the next event. So it's not like an ongoing thing. As the yeah see I was practice patrons yes,.

G

Yeah I think it gets a bit tricky though sometimes you you, you wonder, you could review an event application before it starts and by the time the event is done. You get feedback on that PR, basically saying yeah. Well, they didn't really have like the shrimp or whatever you know like people can go to an event and say that the events had something and didn't so by the time you revoked their badge or or downgraded that basically will be there now until they do that event next time and they apply for a new badge.

G

So so so the visibility and and how the badge itself can be useful to someone who wants to go to the event and is looking for the badge. This has a lot more. You know a very different recipe. Let's say, then how you would go about putting it in your repo, you know or getting the robots to put them in the repo. So yeah it is an interesting divide, is and.

C

I guess we're having exert.

C

It's pretty young, mrs. Dilber. They go.

G

Sorry, it was choppy for a bit there well.

C

I was saying I'm, suppose I'm, assuming that we have a pretty clear feedback, a path for feedback, so that when we do know that when people aren't doing the basics that they promise to do that, people know where they can go and complain. And.

G

Yeah, that would be part of the framework.

G

Preparation that we should do a bit over the summer, yes yeah.

H

I think licking the badge get the link to the the were you where you can do feedback and just look at the bathroom program itself.

G

So so we could say that every event that gets badged gets a page where people who attend that event can be converged. They did attend it and can then anonymously contribute to whether or not that badge was earned.

G

C

Think that's pretty important because I don't know how many times I've gone to things where they claim to be handicapped accessible and you get there. It's like this is not it's.

E

C

E

B

E

That's a spot-on, well, the github.

G

Is accessible and I tried? That's not.

G

D

An interesting challenge of like badging in terms of a point in time, because I guess I'm not super familiar with CII, but that you know we, but we have. This I mean different links, women, but we've got the diversity inclusion, adding for projects that does seem them. I think I, guess easier in the sense that the projects ongoing not like an event on one day or two or three days.

D

But then that raises a question: I guess! If you have a badge for projects, is that reviewed or is you know? Is there a re-up or I? Don't know how CII does that yeah make sure it's like still consistent same concept, longer time frame right with.

C

Ci, you have to actually link directly to it and they have the whole thing and they'll update it for you, I thought I had a funny thing with one of the hyper ledger projects where he like copy and pasted the image of green and put it on, like you can't do that, like first of all, you haven't even started your CI badge and, secondly, you can't just steal the graphics.

C

You have to have that live connection so that CI I goes in and they like look at your status and as it evolves through versioning it'll bump. You back and then bring you forward, because you're actually live linking to a graphic that isn't yours, I.

D

Guess that's when you know the badging is successful when someone wants to delay.

D

A

G

Think that quantitative aspect of the qualitative badge is how many people get to say. Yes, it was deserved, and project has certain people who are on the you know, team of that project, and we we should consider the you know using hooks to basically get that total and you could show on the badge or a little progress bar that basically, that starts going up as soon as people submit.

G

You know, positives or negatives towards the badge itself. So so, if you have more green in your progress bar, then red and then you know, the badge itself has more credibility.

G

So you know interesting ideas really to try to work out over the summer right.

J

I think you can have Oh like this progress bar can have like a set number of people to it like we say that if you get this many feedbacks and oh yeah.

G

So we talked about clicking on the badge hitting badge like you know. Sometimes you go to a site. That's secure click! Here you see the certificate. It tells you what that means. So we could have a batch page like the badges in SVG when you click on it. It opens a new window with a web page and then you can get more fine-grained details on the badge and what the progress bar really means because I mean technically, you don't want that to be given.

G

If there's like two people who are going to vote- or you know down vote you- you want to have a reasonable number of people before you can say, the sample is, actually you know, statistically a presentable sample so yeah, so I guess a lot of canvas to work out. I.

C

Think it would also be cool to give out bragging rights to people, so they can sit there go well. Last year we got a hundred percent rating on our accessibility or things of that nature, so that next time they can that they have a goal to strive towards long term, wise and so having. That would be really useful, because I know certain entities will do that. A chance.

E

So one of the questions that was asked very early is also like what can the DNA working group do to help in this process? So one of the things that I think will be very helpful is right now, there's five metrics that are part of event. Diversity died, sorry, the five five metrics and so I think what would be helpful is of those five. How many are necessary to receive.

E

You know a passing badge: how many are necessary to receive silver gold, whatever the standards are, that kind of insight would be extremely helpful and it doesn't have to be done now, but have in the future. What about? What are the thresholds that would.

C

Be a great thing to bring to the agenda I think is something along those lines. So that way we can help, but you know, as a group work on that and especially iterate over on it, so that the more people can make sure that they've been able to chime in on it, and everyone knows that it's there, because, like later once you get that rough draft put up in, like you know the github or the gitlab, then the other pull requests can come in afterwards.

C

But you know flushing that out more I think would be a really good thing to do.

C

J

I had one more thing in mind, so maybe the working group can also give feedback on the process, because it's going to be a more people, oriented process and like we don't really want it to be clumsy right.

G

Yeah so so I think the the this will likely look.

G

You know so look how, for you know during the summer there will be invitations to you know, jump in on hole, requests where you know again, some of the repos on badging, where we are actually detailing the framework or other other. You know details I, think it's it's the best.

G

You know the best kind of credibility for this is when everybody in D&I gets a chance to you know. First off anyone is obviously welcome to join. You know the efforts, but also everybody is really encouraged to take part when we have some when we're landing. The you know, v-0 or be v1 drafts of the framework, but yeah join joining in the efforts is definitely something every member of BNI, you know, has not just the right, but is really encouraged to consider.

C

Awesome, yeah and I think that's a really good thing is to come back to the group after the MVP is done, and that way we can help with the review process of it, because I know that not everybody can be involved in the software development.

C

So that's cool.

E

You know I'll make one just last comment. Just so people know, we've also been working with folks at the Linux Foundation, just to kind of get the legal documents squared away on doing such a program. And so, if you want to take a look at those documents, we can do that as well, but they're just they're just documents, just helping us kind of think through the awarding of badges. How badges are understood and so they've been great.

C

Yeah I think I think paralleling the certification stuff that the Linux Foundation does probably.

E

C

One have you talked much with quiet in that group.

E

No beards are we talking to.

A

Or we're talking to where again for.

E

The did the at the Linux Foundation Steve- oh, it's Pete, Winslow, yeah, yeah,.

C

So Steve's the attorney I would talk to Clyde and I can introduce you afterwards. If you just ping me and he does the actual certification program at the Linux Foundation and he's also doing badging. So it would be really good because he's doing the logistics of badging, it would.

E

C

Good to talk to him about it, okay,.

E

That'd be great I'd appreciate that just a good insight and.

C

And Clyde Craig's, a good guy he's he's on top of his stuff. So.

J

C

Appreciate the work that you guys, cuz y'all know that I used to work there right so right on yeah I like Clyde, that's good people, Steve's, good people, okay,.

E

Cool well Steve's been extremely helpful to date. Yeah.

C

He's really good on making sure that you take care of your legal and your risk litigation. But in regards to understanding the logistics of doing.

E

C

Might run into all those other weirdnesses and that's that's gonna, be quiet! Super! It's gonna know that yeah he's really good at that. That'd.

E

Be great, thank you.

C

E

Just happened in.

G

The that we just came my way so I thought I should just put it there for people to you know it's a badges related thing. You know all the this is like the puzzle. A kid was asking for a really difficult puzzle and then that's what they get yeah.

C

That landscape Edition thing that they put out it's it's. It was so funny when I first thought it was on the slide and I'm just like what am I supposed to do with this guy.

C

G

I'm trying to get out of the way.

G

Well, that's it for badging.

C

So quick before we move on to the other stuff who wants to be the facility facilitator next week? Yeah do do a better job than me. What's wants to do it next week? Think.

G

You're doing great.

C

Constantly, looking at my notes, yeah we're good just.

A

So knows the reason we're asking every week who wants to be facilitator next week is so that we have built in some resiliency into the DNI working group. So by being able to have multiple people leave the meeting as people come and go, it will not hurt the project, see.

B

I'm, just so flaky on whether I show up or not I hate to commit I mean I can always last minute. If there isn't anyone there step up and lead I just hate to commit and then not show up.

A

Okay, I understand that, because.

B

Meetings, I can run I run them in IRC all the time, but you know that I show up for a while and then I get other meetings or I totally forget. So this is actually a better time for me, but there's always no guarantee I'm not going to have a conflict.

C

Because I promised them I would be here.

E

I'll make you a deal Amy, how about you I'm running it and if you can't make it I'll, do it? Okay,.

B

So if I don't actually show up you'll just take over correct.

E

B

Right I'll take next meet meeting. Then, okay,.

E

B

E

B

Meetings every week, but this one's always been kind of flaky, whether I show up or not totally.

E

Fair and I got you covered I, don't.

B

Like to commit to anything, I don't follow through on my.

E

Hand support, but you can commit away sure I'll do that I put.

C

A special note in my calendar, which basically is like do not flake on this meeting.

B

For meeting scheduled at the same time- and there was one OpenStack meeting- I ran in zoom, while I had another meeting for work going on in blue jeans, then, if there's an IRC meeting well, no one will notice I'm just typing so.

A

Wow, that's intense, oh.

C

A

You for agreeing to help us next week, if you can make it no.

B

Problem I'll plan on it.

A

That's obvious all right, thank you, Matt for being backup.

C

And then I, the other thing that we have on the agenda is the accessibility document, but let me go find if anyone has that link candy, you could post that in chat, probably.

A

If we go to last week, it should be there.

C

C

And I'll go copy and paste it into chat.

G

Yeah then, okay.

C

G

How do we go want to go about the split? Do we want to do it all in one Doc, I'm, just I'm too overwhelmed.

C

I'm not doing it in one dart, because you know findability with all these freaking Google Docs is like annoying as hell. So for me, it's like having it in one doc is fine, just so long as we just maybe insert page breaks so that we don't accidentally run into the other different ones, and that.

B

Way people can or get lab whatever we choose.

E

B

We ever going to move it into a repo I.

A

B

Plan on breaking it up, then yeah.

G

The PR is already there I think it will end up being adding to mark down to additional markdown files and taking some of the you know, the there's documentation, accessibility that will stay, but it will just be part of the PR yeah. Just.

B

Have the Google Doc is one and then just know that any changes that are going into the repo we're gonna break it out into pages or whatever I think that's totally workable. So.

A

To give you a little background on the process, we started out working 100% in github, but we found it very difficult to collaboratively edit documents and update them, and so we added a step of rapid prototyping and to editing in Google Docs with the goal of transitioning it into our github repo. Once it's stable and we all agree on the wordings yeah.

B

I mean that makes sense. The only alternative is like etherpad.

B

But if you don't know where the etherpad is and keep the link you'll never find it again, so I mean I. Think Google Docs for collaboration has a great idea with just that extra mind which you already have of translating it back into the repository.

G

So something came to my attention when we made that split, we probably want to have a shared like terminology and definitions for documentation, documentation, you know so so all three documents will refer to a bag of you know, concepts that relate. You want to have kind of those definitions in a document that is either included as as part of the boilerplate of those three documents or just a simple link. You know every time we talk about something click here and then you go to that fourth markdown file.

G

That basically, is like the bird's eye view of how the three relate and the other question that came to mind by splitting it are we saying that you could focus on the one you like and not bother with others, and what would be the impact of that so I guess you know. If we end up having high high usability and utility and low accessibility, then you know people may find it hard to find a good argument to look into documentation, accessibility.

G

If it's one of the metrics they can pick or choose, they will likely find the struggle to consider how they can pick it.

G

So I don't have concrete evidence for that. I just have enough experience to say that it's not for bad intent. It's often just because ready start so so yeah I haven't. You know. I kind of would love to hear what others think.

C

um For me, honestly, with github I prefer getting things and a more digestible chunks, because you know that's how I always think of it in regards to coding, but I see your point in regards to you know, unlike the good so funny cuz here, I'm on the Google Doc I'm on Google Doc, keep it all in one place: github break it up, but that does have to do I. Think a fair amount of that centralization aspect.

B

With you on that, having the doc and it all on one page is great, but from working with code, and even you know just open source documentation, everything's in little chunks with a basically an index page or whatever Jencks to the other pages and I think that's just easier, also because of whatever markup II type language you might be using for your dogs upstream.

B

G

So could I ask a question, so would it be fair to have a fourth header here that says like shared or Commons, or something basically that those three MD files will have a fourth file if, under that heading, there's still stuff or at least where the definitions, the more glossary, like definitions of term terms that are interchangeably used, should be defined like.

C

Also, like a table of contents, two at the very beginning, yeah, oh here's, this thing: let's have a table of contents and have any of the meta information in that and then break out into the other pieces. I think that's a pretty common glossary.

B

Appendix on the back end, those are totally legit so.

G

So we're kind of saying documentation has a readme, MD and documentation. Slash readme tells you, there are three metrics of documentation and they are as follows. Some of the definitions are here, but if you do documentation slash accessibility, then it can hyperlink to definitions in the readme.

B

Your readme page could be that index with all the organization and the links to yes.

G

Yeah I mean the case here is that we are doing a new thing which I'm not sure, if, if the framework currently has room for or wants to pursue the idea that here you have yeah I guess Matt. Is that your hand up yeah I, don't have.

E

G

G

E

Host yeah I understand what what the suggestion is. My only concern is is that this adds this would be uniquely different than all other metrics in chaos, in terms of like one meta document, which three three three metrics kind of live, so that would, it would be a layer that doesn't exist on any other metric so that that's all yeah.

G

Oh yeah, so it's definitely a concern. I think that it's shared by everyone. So it's in the form of a question mark exclamation. Is it.

A

Continue the definition and see if it's you need it because right now it I'm not convinced that we will run into this problem. Yet.

G

C

So I did want to give a four minute warning. We.

E

Should probably, we could I already put this on the agenda for next week?

E

C

E

Think we'll make a lot of progress in four minutes.

C

And I just want to do a little bit on there saying okay discussing this instead of these other different pieces and that's good to know what, because I haven't gone and poked her on and they get out so I, don't know what it looks like at this point, but yeah we should parallel what happens, though, you're giving me things for my other stuff that I'm working on that I'm going to change up in the government, I.

A

Was just wondering what is it you're going to change in your governance? Oh.

C

I'm doing something completely different, not here, but talking about how to break out the documentation to make some of this stuff go a little bit easier and a little bit faster and so having that kind of hierarchical structure. I think is helpful in regards to the pull requests, format, Thanks.

G

So I just wanted to point out next week there is no DNI badging.

G

Segment, so it's bi-weekly, but also we came to the conclusion after the last run, with all the proposals- and you know that we're wrapping down the POC and we're starting fresh next month, so we're giving ourselves a little bit of a break from ourselves. You know from all the uncertainties so so there wouldn't be an update, I guess two weeks from now as well, that clears up agenda for you know to finally get this stock done. Yeah.

E

So I think we can get there. You need to see I just put it at the top for next week. Then we lead with this.

C

All righty well, I, guess that's it then um thank you. Everyone and I'll have a me being in charge next week, thanks.

E

Everybody it's good to see you.

H

Too I, okay I'm here: how did you get him to the rain forest I.

A

Booked a ticket and then flew there all this in the last 30 minutes and then parachuted down into the forest, so I'm in the middle, where there's no connection no internet and.

G

Got some people wearing masks or no mask.

A

Virus does not exist all.

G

Right well, we should all come back.

A

Picture a friend of mine took- and he send it to me from his vacation and I, was like.

A

K

Have a nice week thank.

A

K

A

I thanks Alana.