CHAOSS DEI Working Group, 21 Jan 2019

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From YouTube: CHAOSS.D&I.January.21.2019

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CHAOSS.D&I.January.21.2019

A

I'm, starting the recording for our Kaos DNI workgroup meeting on January 21st 2019 welcome everyone. The meeting minutes we just talked about a little bit. It's a one item we have on here is.

A

The DNI tutorial update on last week's action items we do have of it. We were asked to talk about if we can have an outreach ii project. You know there might be potential for funding and we also can think about if we want a google Summer of Code intern, but that is more code oriented than outreach II. So that's something we can discuss. If you have time at some point, we should revise revisit our updated goals. I saw that Emma did some more work on it in the meantime. So any other items for the agenda.

B

A

I would say we start with the DNI tutorial who's, taking notes by the way today, I.

C

A

Or be nice, thank you, I think I have volunteered I, don't know, but I'm facilitating so I would say. We start with the denied tutorial content.

A

Dawn, that is, you and Daniel.

D

Don you do seem frozen. Your tether internet connection seems good spotty. Just like you thought, yeah.

C

Yes, they keep advancing here. We had a meeting this morning where we were discussing about the tutorial, how to have this more interactive in the sense of having people doing things we came with. The idea will first have a similar presentation trying to be shorter, because we only have one hour so up to 10 or 15 minutes, and once we have this API is to go through some of the issues in the hey. How are you ok.

E

Sorry I know what happened: I I connected my monitor, which also had a network cable connected, and it switched me to the network that doesn't exist anymore, so I'm gonna try to it.

C

Was it was contributing there? It worked and this morning you're.

E

Back: ok, good, ok,.

C

Yeah and the VI is so, we have a list of issues that we would like to work on and as we don't want anyone else to work on them, our idea is that we assign them to ask basically what all of them were assigned to Don Forster.

C

The tutorial will have this presentation of 10-15 minutes introduction a couple of finished.

C

Questions from two different focus areas, and then we are proposing to the people to split in groups and depending how many people we have idea is that at least Don and me we can lead some of the groups and then we can help to produce something. So people can go directly to the Google Doc document and work there all together.

C

That's more ways: tutorial yeah.

E

And you can see that on slide 12, we have the list of issues that we thought would be kind of good or basically focus area pages that we stopped thought would be good starting points. So does anybody before we get too far down this path? Does anybody think this is a terrible idea to get people to work in groups and start to just work on some of these metrics?

E

Because my my thought was: maybe Daniel explained this one well I got kicked off, but my thought was that, rather than focusing the working group on how to build a diversity and inclusion report which is kind of what our focus was in Edinboro, because they only have an hour at Kaos, Khan I was hoping just to get more people interested in participating in the working group, and it seemed like an interactive tutorial where they could start working on. Some actual work might get people interested.

D

Yeah I, really like this idea and I like how you linked it to issues is what it looks like you're doing, they're outside 12, because it would be.

F

D

Capture that work in the repository, as opposed to just kind of if I'm early in the workshop yeah.

E

Yeah because each of those issues actually links off to a Google Doc, which is templated for for working on these things. So it's got. You know the description, the I think it's the measurements. A few.

D

Different areas actually I'm gonna I'm gonna steal that idea, because it's a really great way, if you're gonna do that type of work to get people to work in the space that you want them to work.

E

And their Google Docs, so they're super accessible to those people. Yeah.

D

Answer good idea: okay,.

G

E

I'm doing that.

D

E

D

E

Anybody oh go ahead, so.

A

One thing that I that I have seen with just picking up an issue and working through it is that it's really difficult for someone who has not been involved in the work we've been doing so far to feel comfortable, contributing where I've seen. This is through my interviews and also the work that we're doing, and it helps to have something already there, but we asked them to revise it that way, take you're, more comfortable contributing because otherwise we have to spend so much time getting them up to speed on the format. What goes where?

A

What kind of information you want? So that is something to consider that we should maybe seed these issues before we give it to them.

E

Yeah I thought about that, but the downside of doing the downside of doing that is, if you're asking them to revise something we've already done, then they don't feel like they're really getting to contribute something.

E

You know what I mean like it feels if we do too much of it that it feels like there's, nothing left to do.

A

E

Look at and be like: oh that sounds good because they know what they're talking about I'm sure it's fine he's.

A

No I understand concern I'm, just yeah right again. My concern is that they are gonna, be stuck in the beginning where they're like what is supposed to go here. What does it supposed to look like yeah.

E

Something they're having it be, a group activity. They could work through that together and as they do, learn more about diversity and inclusion in general and Daniel and I'll be there to help them and if it goes completely off the rails, we can clean it up and leave comments in the dock and no harm no foul.

D

All right, I had two comments on that. I think one is on these workshops. It's that continuum of. If you don't provide structure things get really wide, really fast, making out really far right and if you over structure, then maybe they don't feel like. So it's that balance in between and if I follow the the issue link, which subsequently takes me to the Google back I.

D

Think that's what you want Emma to ultimately end up in the Google like I, think the headers and the description in there so like, for example, sample objectives, number two on community inclusivity and captioning. That's what I was looking at it just says. The section provides a list of reasons. A community wants to assess this question so I think there's structure take a look in the Google Docs to kind of orient people yeah.

E

That's what I was hoping was that the template would provide enough structure that people could get oriented and then we're also gonna print off. The two examples on slide: eight and nine. So we used the board council diversity example and the event diversity example. Speaker. Demographics is the event diversity example. Maybe I should just say that.

G

E

So they can see what these, ideally, what these would look like when they've been completed so they'll have those as well still have two completed templates and they'll have templates for for the issues, and the reason we link to the issue is instead of the Google Docs is that we won't be able see that the issues are there and if there's been any discussion already in the issue, then they'll have that context.

D

Many people could, even just at the end, just provide a brief response in the issue. Our group has made changes thanks very much ya.

B

D

A

D

A

Good, if you could ask them to include their names so that them as contributors on our readme yeah.

E

I was thinking about that, but we should. Let me make that explicit.

A

Okay, anything else you want from us for the touch real.

E

No I think we're I think we're good.

A

Okay, then I'm gonna add an item to our agenda. I saw that Emma was writing in the Google Doc.

A

G

Thought you would be done by now, so I was just trying to write my thing and leave so sorry about that.

D

While you're doing that, I did have one question on the for the tutorial: is it Daniel and Don are the two? You are the ones running it just curious who's gonna, be there? Yes,.

E

A

Okay, and what do you want to verbalize what you were writing.

A

G

Yeah, so I couldn't stay, but I I was just doing some thinking about. He is, is this about the contribution types conversation? Yes,.

A

G

Was thinking like that's my challenge to you for those who didn't read that email was that, like our goals and our like question should like be very specific about inclusion and and and the work that we're trying to do but contribution Texas, it feels like we're. Building building those because they're not there yet right, like they're, not like one, would expects like there to be a metric around contribution type coming into chaos. No matter what right and then that we would apply. I was just coming into chaos. Eyes and I wanted to.

G

You know, do work on contribution ties, but it wasn't specific to D and I like I, wouldn't look there first and I, guess I'm, suggesting and mutter a monthly a little bit is that maybe we can be more deliberate about where some things are built so like. Obviously, we need to build this and it's really important, but does it make sense for all the car to the contribution definitions to be in the DNI, repo and I suggest? I could just be the just be the DNI specific layer or lens on contribution types.

G

It would be there and I, don't know where and I don't know if there is a repo, a working group that is a more natural like location or that we just created like maybe we maybe there's another repo with it. I don't have a proposal for what that repo name is or anything like that, but just that you know we find ourselves building things cuz, they don't exist yet just putting them in our repo might add bloat and then I'll alternately be hard for people to navigate so, okay.

E

Well, we keep we've been having this conversation around a bunch of other metrics organizational variation being one yeah you're, actually starting we're starting a new working group to deal with what was it Shawn called it like the land of misfit I, don't know metrics or something, but basically we're gonna work directly in the metrics. Looking group repository to define those metrics that don't fit into either working group, but are super important yeah.

G

It's almost like core right, like they're like core metrics yeah yeah,.

E

So I think I think this will fit into that. So I've just dropped a quick comment on it that we should probably move this to the okay.

G

E

Which we haven't really named yet, but we're gonna start up, probably probably next week the week after that sounds awesome. Cool.

A

So I know that there is a lot of things in contribution type just because I have to define a lot of things. The DNI lens that I see on this metric is that people have different skills and by demonstrating that we value different skills, we make our community more inclusive and that's what it boils down to.

G

Yes and I think my my comments were like and there's a whole bunch other d-9 metrics that we, you know, can pull out of contribution tactic, that's one, but it's not the only one.

A

G

That might be like, oh look, it's mostly women doing documentation and then we applied like and then oh look. We also don't value documentation, so yeah.

A

Yeah anyway, I'll get back to working on that after my dissertation a few days or weeks.

D

Thank you, I have a question then. So the idea is that contribution type in this case a little like organizational diversity. That Don was mentioning, would contribution type. Do you see it kind of being a focus area so to speak under which there can be different lenses that could be applied to understand contribution, type.

G

Different lenses to understand diversity, diversity.

D

G

Contribution to so that was a core set of metrics in the this new magical place and chaos. We would just write like we would extend it to help us understand some other things and one of the biggest uses might be for denied. But right you know, does that make sense, sort.

D

G

I'm not suggesting I have the answers.

D

I'm, just trying to maybe more will kind of come to light when this new magical workgroup gets going. I like this magical notion and the structure will kind of emerge from that I guess: I'm, always just hoping that the the focus area structure with them metrics that kind of derives from those focus areas. I hope that that structure and stay in this new magical workgroup as well. That's all, however, it gets laid out yeah.

E

That's one of the things we're gonna have to look at is whether or not we we have some focus areas and what about things that don't fit into focus areas? There's still a lot to be figured out, I! Think in that new working group I'm waiting for I'm waiting for Shawn to respond. I know it's a three-day weekend in the u.s., so he hasn't replied to the doodle. Yet so, once.

C

E

Get his response I'll go ahead and get it scheduled all.

D

Right, cool I'll pick him right.

G

Now is there a mailing list tip date on that.

E

Right now, I'm just using the main chaos mailing list. Okay,.

G

I I don't breathe that often so I won't start to read it more.

D

And if a new list needs to be formed, just obviously let me know yeah.

E

I mean I was thinking since these are sort of core metrics that the KMA and chaos list is probably the place to do it, because it's something that affects all of the other working groups. It's not something you're like D&I is kind of separate and it's nice for some a place to sort of turn on things that weren't quite finished with, but I think with the metrics I think everybody's gonna care about them, so I, don't think it makes sense to break them off in something separate.

A

So on the idea, focus area, I, don't know if that's the right or the future way, we will think about it. It's similar to commits where we have different ways of looking at commits and commits is just one of the contribution types, so I think contribution types is overarching way of measuring communities anyway, I just.

G

Have one other thing to add, and then my way of thinking may or may not be helpful. It is from a developer's perspective, like it like in an object-oriented program like create an object right that has like attributes and common functions that you can call and and then you would bring that object in you. You might extend it to do other things that are specific to like your organization. So that's how I've been thinking you when I was talking about contribution types, I thought it was like an object that I would put.

G

You know that Dean I would inherit and then you know, add its own attributes and like variations on I. Don't know if that makes sense to you were not either, but just like the idea of like creating components or we're using them in some focus areas, but then there's a core set of uses, but that other working groups like it would apply their own lenses and build on that I see.

D

That makes sense. It's.

E

Probably a good way of thinking about I hadn't really thought about it. That way before yeah.

G

I can imagine it makes sense other so.

A

Okay, any other ideas comments, thoughts on contribution type metric. Otherwise we continue.

A

The next item on our agenda is to review last week's action items and I put them here at the top of the notes. So the first one was for Nicole who's. Not here, but I know she and Sarah worked on the Louis Ellis submission and it's complete yeah.

E

Sarah was like he looked like. She was a huge help on putting together proposals, fantastic.

A

Yeah for the next one for the ospa, god Daniel you and Dawn we're gonna. Do the deny tutorial session which be presented so that's complete. We.

E

Need the description for the website right is that what that was, or was it something else.

A

I, do you want.

E

A

E

Was there a reason you didn't just take it from the CFP form the abstract, because.

A

We hadn't originally submitted it as a workshop was something else, and then we changed it. Oh.

E

I think we submitted as a panel yeah.

A

E

E

Daniel, do you want to send that or should I put something together? We can take the unburrow one and modify it a bit. Yeah.

C

I was thinking about that.

C

B

Afternoon, thank.

C

A

Awesome. Thank you.

A

The contributing and read me I, don't haven't seen work done, I.

A

Don't know what to what status, to give it open.

A

And then the last one at disclaimer to pull request about paid unpaid. The pull request is now merged before I got to it. So it's I could either create a new pull request or just dismiss this any ideas so.

C

What's what's the problem with this.

A

And the add a pull request, a time, new demographic information, and we had some concerns about how it can easily be misunderstood, and so we wanted to add that I'll create a little request. Okay,.

A

A

Any thoughts, comments, ideas on action items and.

A

Then we can move on to a.

A

Preachy or google Summer of Code project, the idea is that we could have an intern either through google Summer of Code. The recruiting phase is starting here fairly soon in February. If we have a coding project that we could use a interns help for, then we can add that to the list of ideas for the camp project and hope we get interested people or if we have something that is less code. Oriented outreach. Ii would be a venue and mats that he might find some funding for this yeah.

D

So I'll chime in there I'm going to a meeting like two weeks from today at the sloan Foundation and there's an opportunity to perhaps find some support at a meeting like that.

D

So I'll do my best for outreach e. So basically you know, without reaching you have to bring sixty five hundred dollars to the table.

D

That's what it is, and so you proposed the project and you bring the money to support the student and a participant in the outreach program. So that's all. Let's give that a shot.

A

So the question for us is what project, what we have for such an intern.

D

If you don't have a project, I won't. Do it.

D

C

The specific action we need to do is to think of a potential project right. So that's the action, correct and the deadline is the beginning of February. You said google.

D

Summer of Code, but that's a technical oriented one so like maturity like hey-zeus, is putting together some stuff for the GMB for for google, Summer of Code, and so outreach e I think is later I. Don't think we're under a time pressure like that I think it might be March for our 18, so I think at this point the question would be. Do you want me to try to pursue support for outreach? If you do, I wouldn't need a proposal really right now, I could speak vaguely in terms of what a student would be.

A

So I think it's a generally good idea, I'm just having some trouble thinking of what people would have them do, because what what we've been doing so far is a lot of small. Well, it's not small, but work on the metrics. That is not a project that starts yeah.

D

It's kind of more incremental work. Yes,.

A

And so if we were to put together a project, maybe it would be something like revising everything or having a sample implementation working with the project, but a part.

D

Of my my thoughts on our Ricci could be something along the lines of assembling kind of a distributable document to people that they could use to monitor or to or DNI at conferences, but then also as part of that document, suggesting how that information can be gathered and displayed. I think that'd be a great project. It's to thinking about how how to kind of cells not the right word, but provide a document that people could approach. These particular metrics in that focus area how they can collect the data and how they can represent that data.

C

So this year, or there are still no the last year- Emma had a British student and once he even presented here, if you remember.

B

C

And so on, so I would say that at least we we have a couple of projects that might be one there, and you mentioned about having writing kind of a website where people can feel information about the focus areas or having something at the very end like a final doc or something the other one would be like trying to automate part of the matrix, if that's possible, but I'm, not sure, and then perhaps try to have keep working on the on the work by Danny Matteson of IAE. I can remember. The name were like this.

C

Outfit is student. If.

D

I recall that was kind of like dashboard ways to represent the information. It wasn't an actual functional dashboard, but I think it was more visual, like a UI yeah.

C

It was kind of a mock-up, then with the fake data, but then with Joanna, but something like this would be really useful indeed. Well, for instance, for the first act in the report. One of the things we we've been using is given a chart through some other chart, but based on the groom, our lab thing. So that might be something interesting as well.

C

But it's probably something we have to discuss right so.

D

How about this I will I will at least pursue funding I'll, take a look and see if there's any interest and then, if the answer is no, then this all might be a moot point. But if the answer is then you know perhaps then some focus to what the project might be could start then, and I'll have more information in just a couple weeks. Okay,.

C

A

Good. Thank you. My cool.

A

Okay, so then the next item is revisit and update goals for 2019.

A

I'm opening the issue tracker and.

A

Google Doc.

D

By everybody, I gotta go okay.

B

D

God: okay, okay,.

A

So I would like to finish the discussion around goals for 2019, because it's almost the end of January and there are only 11 more months. So, instead of talking about what I want to do, we should start doing.

A

The question is: how do we get there the document as it stands right now we have.

A

Four objectives.

A

Which I feel like we already agree on.

A

So I don't know what we need to do here.

A

You and the idea is what we need to do to get this document finished.

C

So I would say- and I have not been discussing here- a lot in this document. That mean is well first. We should have some kind of deadline for this.

C

So let's say and couple of weeks from now or three weeks or two months- I don't know, but at least half a deadline, so that will help to have to set the code that we have for 2019 and then, when this is done, clean the document and basically put this in the front page of the working group.

C

Then this is what we are going to and probably during the first during the next three meetings, once we have set up the goal try to have kind of a kind reminder about hey. These are the goals for this year? Remember so any work we do should be aligned with the goals that we we all decided.

C

These are my two cents.

A

So I feel like that's, not we've been doing so far, where we just keep reminding ourselves that hey, we need to work on the goals, so we need to close this conversation and.

A

C

Would suggest perhaps to have this time by force then so right after post them and I mean horse them, go sister, it's a place where, basically, some of us will see each other face to face, and mainly to some other discussions, and you say hey. This might be interesting for this. That's the only Russian on the hike for this.

A

Okay, post them as a deadline to have this done: how? How can we make sure that it's done by then what are the steps we need to change? That's what I'm not clear on mm-hmm.

C

Keep job so there are some comments, I would say someone should leave this document and follow orders, and everyone should be aware that this is finishing in couple of weeks.

A

Don, are you still with us? I saw your changing headphones. Oh yeah.

E

My my internet came back up so rather than tethering on my phone, I am back to you, an actual actual internet connection. Whew I mean so my my take on this is. You know. I. Do think that it's a good idea to have this completed by phone's down the reality is with with goals: you're, never you're, never really done done, and so I think it's okay to have. You know like a first draft that is sort of good enough for our purposes by FOSDEM, and that seem so. It seems reasonable to me.

F

A

How about this I will I will clean it up and send it out to the mailing list, and then we have the mailing list review phase until next week or for one week, and then we put it on our repository and we start implementing I.

C

Say yes to have this open until after for them because enforce them, we may have some feedback from the people. The chaos cone or some discussions between cares members. But that's all that's.

A

Great and if you do I'm happy to update it, there's no no issue. I just would like to move it out of the state that it's in right now, I think.

E

I've, so here's what I would suggest I think that I think that just cleaning it up and accepting all the changes and the comments and things will get us pretty far down the path of making. This look a little bit better for other people to consume. So maybe, if we get the doc in a written, really good shape before FOSDEM and then put it up in the repository right after FASTA. Does that seem reasonable.

A

We can what so, what are you going to point people to during Boston? Then it's hidden somewhere in a document in an issue or pull request accepted into the repository before Boston. It's right there for people to see and Boston is a great place for people to get good feedback. Yeah.

B

A

That's why I think putting it on the repo getting the conversational closure for now.

E

That's probably fine, I, don't really I, don't really have a big preference, I mean if it. If it goes out of the dock and into the repo, then we can just provide feedback there. Yeah.

A

So Daniel you said you hadn't looked at this. Do you want a few days before I clean it up to get a feedback and comment on it? Go.

C

Ahead I mean they can discuss on these afterwards, but someone really well.

E

It might be good if you, if you cleaned it up and got kind of a like a good state of the document, and then we could all take one more look at it during the next meeting. We're good as I think we will probably the meetings on Monday I don't go to FOSDEM until Wednesday, so we should have. We should have time to have give people a chance to have one one last look at it before it goes into the repository. Does that work for you, yeah works.

A

E

Because to be honest right now, this document is such a mess right now with comments and things crossed out and suggestions that it's actually quite quite difficult to read.

A

How bad is my typing, by the way.

E

What do you mean when.

A

I typed, can you hear it? Oh yeah.

E

Yes, it's pretty clickety.

A

E

A

Getting close to just buying in more silence or.

E

Better headset.

A

Yeah, which I'm not using one but yeah.

E

Either one would help help with the sound.

A

Organ pull request: there's nothing to go through any other items. You have.

F

um Hi, my name is Emmanuel I. Think I messaged, you a few weeks back we're currently working like a diversity and inclusion project at Boston University that we wanted to kind of upstream kind of work with you guys or like maybe get some feedback. Unlike what we're working on yeah I guess! That's why I start like come to the meetings.

A

Welcome hi, you.

F

Want you doing it.

A

I, don't know, go ahead, yeah I just wanted to I know. You explained that to me, but maybe you want to explain it to the group what it is.

F

Yes yeah, so um so we Boston University and Red Hat started working like a mini project like looking at like diversity and inclusion in like open source communities and like collecting metrics around those things so like we're. Currently I grew currently in the face of just like collecting and finding out more about like the space. That's whenever I found out about chaos about like number last year, and so as we get closer to like actually starting like programming and like in the project off the ground.

F

We wanted to kind of make it visible for other people who are also doing things like this to kind of see and like maybe also contribute or things like that, and so we're having a career having a roundtable in about like a few weeks after awesome, because one of the people write a help in Renda. Roundtable is and be there. So we're gonna have a roundtable after that.

F

Just kind of like discussing the possible metrics that we're going to be looking at and collecting like pretty much how to go about doing all those things and like making like the project is good and like easily portable for people to use. It's like. That's like the idea behind the project.

E

Have you seen some of the examples that that we have like the the OpenStack gender diversity report, for example, I've.

F

Not seen the OpenStack gender in that report, but I did see the metrics you guys were talking about after we had initially come up with our metrics and they were very similar in terms like what we were looking at and that's why I decided that getting me check is it felt like we were like we all got all got to the almost same conclusion without ever talking to each other so which I thought was a bit interesting. Yeah.

E

That's very cool.

A

That's great validation for the work you are doing and we are doing well. There are ideas that you had that we did not have.

F

um I haven't like compared it, but I'm pretty sure you guys right during this meeting. You guys are talking about like having like the straw man where, like it's like, you almost use a metrics as like a lens, and you can like take things out and put things in and like different working groups could use that. That's not something we have thought of yet, and so I I really like that as well.

F

You guys also had like four metrics, which are things that I think we're only looking at metrics that point us towards like diversity and inclusion, but we could like, if we're collecting out, if we're gonna look at a lot of metrics, we could use core metrics Plus this whole, like straw, man, kind of project thing where you can take it and look at metric. So taking a look at how diversity and inclusion are like it's like our you know.

F

Sorry, you can look at the diversity and inclusion in a certain community and that kind of stuff. So that's something you guys have that we definitely did not have in that um yeah.

A

I'm just always interested to see what else we were missing, what what we can add.

C

Just come in here, the way we are working- and this might be useful for for everyone- is that we are trying to have a common set of goals, so everyone can say, use a of a centralized Play place where we keep adding ideas and comment and improve the metrics and the documents and so on, but at the same time it's useful for your daily work. So do you think it's useful for you?

C

We try to line some of your interest with the chaos general interest, so in a way that, basically you you work with us all together in the same line and then, basically, you take some things from chaos to your daily work. This is this something useful for you.

F

Yeah I think it will be useful, I guess I. From that perspective, we just have to I, guess I I guess like I'm the only person from my team- that's currently here, but it's always like I got after I, get back to discuss it with them, but I think everyone will be on board for something like that. Yeah I.

C

E

Gonna say it'd be great to have you come in and do kind of a presentation about about your thinking so far, even if it's just you know, I, don't know your plan for what you're doing if you haven't done the metrics. Yet we would love to see that.

F

That's that sounds good, maybe like next week's meeting I could just do like a short presentations like what like what we were planning on doing with the project overall cuz there's no like working on living parts of it out. We don't want it to be too big, since there will be students involved, oh and yeah and I guess. One of you guys are talking about finding possible interest. Was that about students being interested or that about interest, as in people willing to fund it.

E

Yeah I mean there's definitely an interest in getting people to participate in this working group, for example, hmm and and anybody can participate. That's where you know we're happy to have any kind of contributions and people who are interested in diversity and inclusion metrics for open source projects. We would we welcome any any participation or any of you, gonna, be at the kiosk on or FOSDEM.

F

Linden white should be there. He works at Red Hat, so he's going to be at the conference. Yeah.

E

Yeah I know Langton yeah.

F

Yeah, yes, so he's going to be at the conference: yeah, okay,.

E

C

Don't know we may have a meeting there if that makes sense, yeah.

A

What up so because you asked about aligning interests. One thing that came to mind for me is that, instead of taking the conversation back to your team, if you have discussions about metrics, you can also invite your team to join this call, and we can all discuss this together, because those are conversations we are very much interested in their interest or your team, and so even if this time doesn't work- and you end by just two times that your team is meeting. Maybe that is another way we can align interest.

F

Okay sounds good and I guess. Another thing that we're also working on is we're all like since the school semester in the US just kind of started. We're also looking at recruiting, maybe like two to three students to bring on board to help us with all I guess the building parts of the project as well.

F

So once we have I guess everyone assemble together, we'll go frequent. These meetings, more often like different people from the team gesture, keep up with what you guys are doing in.

E

A

Well, thank you for your joining us today. It's great I look forward to what you look you're building. What comes out of this yeah.

E

Because we don't have a lot of real examples of people actually using the metrics, maybe Daniel. Can you drop a link to the one of the diversity and inclusion, the open stock report, so that a man you could take a look at it? Those are really kind of the only ones plus some stuff that Mozilla is doing.

E

So this will be really interesting to see how you you decide to implement it and what your, what your results look like, and what you, what you do with the metrics I'm yeah I'm, really interested to see where this goes. Yeah.

F

That's that's how I initially found out about chaos which student was illa like the I think that was the first ever state, including call that everyone had that was on YouTube. That's when I kind of found out about that wasn't order initial, because there are not like research papers about diversity and inclusion or anything around that topic. So it was very difficult to just to find things about that so yeah. That was very good to have that initial video out there and then the project also.

C

Yes, stir with all of you to link the first one is the last. The very large diversity report focused on mentorship, mainly and trained, understand, mentorship axioms in the penstock foundation and the other one is a previous version which doesn't contain the information about mentorship. So you have more information about gender diversity from several perspectives.

F

Okay awesome. Thank you.

A

Well, we are almost up on time, so we have one last item and that is who wants to facilitate next week we're hearing exactly I can.

E

Facilitate I can do that.

A

Awesome unless.

E

Lacera wants to because she was she was out this week. She missed it. She missed her opportunity.

A

Yeah, maybe we can ping her because.

E

I feel like two of us have kind of gone back and forth on a lot of the I will do it as Sarah doesn't want it, but I would like to give her an opportunity to facilitate okay.

A

Are you sending her an email to ask if she wants to.

E

Yes, yes, in fact, I am right now.

A

Perfect and then I'll I can do the note-taking and Daniel. Thank you very much for taking notes today. Are you going to send them out into the mailing list.

A

Perfect, don't.

C

A

Just copy paste is what I usually do. So, let me have it archived awesome. Well, Vista, two minutes any last items.

F

I'm, just one question: I guess as an individual. How do I get more involved with like the chaos project and like I, guess being an active like member of the diversity and inclusion working group.

A

That's excellent question: the first thing you can do is show up to our meetings and then from there you'll know. What's going on what we're working on subscribe to our mailing list and that's something there comment we work more with in our weekly meetings than on the mailing doesn't, but it's still sometimes we send updates there. You can also subscribe to an hour or watch our repository so that you know when the open issues or critical requests and there's work to do and then there's a lot of issues that need working on so yeah.

E

We've tagged, some of them by we I mean Georg, has take some of them with a good first issue, so those might be good places to start. Okay.

D

A

Good yeah just showing up this a good first step, yeah.

E

Thanks for coming, this is, this has been great Emanuel yeah.

C

Thank you. Thank you.

A