CHAOSS DEI Working Group, 7 Oct 2019

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From YouTube: CHAOSS.D&I.October.7.2019

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CHAOSS.D&I.October.7.2019

A

Okay, we are recording our chaos, diversity, clean working group, meeting on October, 7, 2000 19.

A

Ended up for two days to review action items and then go through the DNI surveys that we collected action items short.

A

We are Matt Snell wanted to send out and he did send out an email about finding potentially new time for our readings.

A

So there's uh when it's good I already answered yeah I did do so won't see him encourage others a few times to get good responses. I wanted to share before this meeting the best surveys to go through and I didn't do that until this morning, hey.

B

A

C

Sorry for the delay.

A

C

With my gosh and.

A

Then the third item from last week was to ask about the Google account and so on, and we had a lively discussion afterwards on the mailing list and the weekly for the monthly call. So that's done and actually items are followed elsewhere, not in this working group. Anything else to review to remind us off.

B

Nothing I could think of. Oh one, sorry one more thing that we might want to put on the agenda. Maybe for the next meeting is we should probably talk about open source I met in Lyon and just maybe maybe talk about the presentations that we have because I know. Nicole and I have a presentation I'm, not sure. If there are any others.

B

I need to reach out to Nicole I and make sure that we're prepared, because I have a really.

A

B

Oh really doctor, since we agreed to do it all right, yeah.

C

I'm going this time, unfortunately, oh sorry.

B

You're gonna be on holiday or something right, yeah.

D

B

That's a good excuse for not going to a conference. They.

E

Send some for this.

A

Excuse to go on vacation yep.

B

I'm going right after so I'm um I'm, going to Leo another movie home for a day and a half I think and they go on holiday. Awesome.

A

So um surveys I I, don't know how best to do this.

A

Let me share the document.

A

Well, I, guess you have the documents in the meeting.

A

What we have right now is a collection of your illness, the items and the.

A

Reports as far as I was able to find them and others have contributed and I just suggest that we just start at the top and go through the survey items and identify where we can fit them in our current metrics. So we just take them as templates I, don't know, maybe there's a different approach that we can take.

B

You try that see how it works it might, because this is a little bit complex. It might help if you share your screen and we can kind of talk about it. Would that be all right, yeah.

A

C

You're, not obese I know that your laptop is kind of working, so I can I can turn my screen if you prefer to.

A

You can because my new laptop is.

E

Just there's one I guess.

C

Did you see the collection? Oh sorry, yeah.

A

C

If I do this, you see agenda.

B

A

If you go to the first one Apache on that first link, that is a nice page because it contains the answers into the original questions. Choices, I I think it's a good one to go through.

A

If we scroll down, we have first survey question.

C

So it is, these: have the main numbers number of responses? Orders they? Okay? Here we go yeah.

A

So we have an a question one: how long have you been involved with them opens with an Apache project community mm-hmm, so this falls under the category of demographic information and graphics.

A

Right now we do not have a metric or demographic information. How.

B

Much do we care about demographics from a diversity and inclusion standpoint, I.

B

Mean how much we care about defining demographic metrics for diversity and inclusion, specifically I, guess it's more my question. We.

C

Do half an entry in I want to we get for this frame.

B

A

Want to say, we do care, because people coming to our working group to put together. Certainly if we don't provide them with diversity questions, then they will have to find them elsewhere. Mm-Hmm.

C

The best I remember were we should get all of these dimensions.

B

Yeah, I guess I guess my question was more around: how much do we care about demographic questions that aren't directly related to diversity and inclusion? So how long you've been in the project? Does that does that matter to us?

B

Maybe maybe it does? Maybe it doesn't I'm just I always feel like with the diversity and inclusion stuff. We really need to make sure that we're not just doing everything that we that were scoping it for the scope of the work group.

C

So I think it's interesting, at least from at least this is think cuz. Then we can deal with the perception of the people, so those I just say just an example, those basically probably after three years, 14 years. They know the idiosyncrasy of the working group. They know the communities, there are no the people, so they feel comfortable about how the general way of working is.

C

But if we compare this to a newcomer, given that people and way of developing software, for instance, evolved may be newcomers, don't feel that comfortable with the way things are done because they expect it to be enough.

C

You know more transparent or less transparent or using another tools, or these kind of things. Ok,.

B

C

B

We could leave them. I mean I was just kind of asking the question to make sure we at least think about it.

A

Yeah I I also follow on the side of thinking that demographic information is relevant to diversity. Inclusion because it helps us segment. The answers and the newcomer may have a different perspective than someone has been drinking for a while.

C

So what happens if we find, for instance, in a survey like this one, that there is some outliers somewhere but didn't family? Most of the newcomer, for instance, are have some specific perception, and this is something not expected in the community to this. This is kind of an actionable insight right. So, if there's something here that we should look at this.

C

No, no definitely having this characterization of people I think it's it's important.

C

I'm not like protein char base have to change.

A

So maybe this may be skipped all the demographic questions for today. Mm-Hmm.

E

A

On the other ones, because the demographic questions they will be very similar across and on the surveys and I think they're, not the most valuable, as Don pointed out.

C

Yeah yeah and probably another just just closed it another like I'm thinking about the numbers here, so we have 250 184 131.

C

So if we go for for the people that are involved typically, the way in open-source is like, if you have a long tail of people, contributing yes, one or two coming into a few issues, and so on so people to know or to understand from a TNI perspective. What's the percentage of this 257, if converted to a community contributing in some? How?

C

Because, then, perhaps this number is, let's say like five percent of all community, but this number here is like 80 percent of the community that have contributed more than ten years. These numbers might be relevant as well. They are not part of the demographics perhaps, but they might be part of the from a DMA perspective might be was actually.

A

An inclusion metric yeah. How long have you been involved and it shows us how well we're including people.

C

Anyway, let's go ahead, so let's go for the mix.

E

A

Can take that same.

C

Same I guess yeah.

A

It falls into the demographics, yeah yeah.

C

This one again, it's.

A

E

C

This is interesting.

A

So I think this one. We do have a metric that is relevant here. I'm gonna try to find it.

A

This is in project and community I think all these processes.

C

Which, when you said sorry I, think.

A

This would be documentation where this fits.

A

Let me share the link in the chat.

C

So the goal of this question was to find out if the documentation around policies and guidelines were being referred to by commuters. But.

C

Perhaps the interesting part of this discussion is why they refer to these guidelines instead of, if there are guidelines, what do you think.

A

So I think this one is a qualifying question for the next one. The next one says when you locate information about positive policies or guidelines. What is your experience and we need this one question: seven to know how much weight to give two answers on the next one for individual people, yeah.

F

A

Never look at them, then, whatever they answer on the next one doesn't matter yeah.

C

C

A

All right so let's say it's a question of seven.

C

And you are picking up.

A

The meeting okay, we'll have to go through and put this into our metrics.

C

Shall we could be the objective and so on? I think it makes any mm-hmm.

A

C

F

B

E

C

Just then I guess that we could be with young seven question eight right, both of them.

F

Hello, everyone good.

C

F

Hey good morning.

C

Would be interesting? Oh sorry, so.

A

Nicole just so, you know what you're doing right now, they're going through the surveys that we collected and try to identify which survey items we can use for our metrics. Oh.

F

Okay, Daniel.

A

Sharing his stream and we're taking note of all that, okay, so as a question of 7, & 8 or the documentation metric yeah.

C

Yeah and the number 9 it comments about the this is specific. Sorry, oh.

A

That's already the end yeah.

C

A

I do think that's a general good question to have, but not really relevant to us.

B

But really that the whole day, a nice array.

F

B

F

A

Think they just wanted to take stock of the demographics. That's what my impression is here: ok, yeah! So.

C

We may would be good to have Saturn on board to discuss all this because he was in charge of this um first I remember, man might be I might be wrong too. I'm not really sure this was the first time they were doing this, so they want it to be like small and then see about the community. The feeling of the community about this and then say.

E

C

This and check about the feedback, so I guess this is why they have this specific question here because made people feel weird all these or maybe not or maybe they feel happy.

A

I, don't I didn't quite see, what's their recommendation for doing something with our metrics.

E

And you asking.

A

Were you making a proposal for our Kaos D&I metrics.

C

Okay, questioning like Kristen 7m8, are good questions. Okay,.

A

So move on yeah: let's go.

C

She should they go open, each of them.

A

Sure yeah, let's open all of them and go through okay.

B

Maybe oh when I was gonna suggest this. Maybe we start with the most recent ones. Cuz some of them are from like two years ago. I think. Maybe, if we start with, maybe the two that were from seven months ago is just a.

D

B

Them that way, I don't.

A

C

Disability and the other one is an agency.

A

Well done: are you changing the order in the document? No.

B

C

So this is the disability market. Oh.

A

Okay, disability, demographic mm-hmm.

B

Well, I think, sorry, let me rephrase my concern about demographics. Some some demographics are relevant to diversity. Inclusion, some are not I, don't think we should skip. My fear is if we skip all of the demographic questions. Half of them are specific to diversity and inclusion. Demographics, so are you a person with a disability is I. Think a DNI demographic. Like key demographical question: do you see what I mean like how long you've been in the project?

B

You could ask that and it would apply to pretty much across the board on any of the metrics that we do and something that you might care about from a demographic standpoint. Where is this? This one I feel is a demographical question that directly impacts any work that we would do in DNI.

A

E

Its sexual orientation.

A

Okay, I think that's also one that we care about right.

C

Then, if you go for the others would be generate entity, language, crazy,.

C

C

A

C

Native language.

C

But change the rating, the please notice this.

E

Taken small treat.

C

Yeah, this is gender identity.

E

And third, one would be raised.

C

This is something that, when I see a us-based survey, I don't know what to answer. Sometimes I, don't really know.

A

But that's why I like this question, because it just asked whether you're identified as minority where you live yeah go, spend your living in Spain.

A

C

Instance for any of the conference's we have in the US, and there is a list that you know like stuff crises and so on again it's what what what should I answer. Cuz I, don't know.

E

In the commendation I.

B

Mean for us conferences, I I would say they probably know me.

C

Exactly time, I don't feel like underrepresented, that's wrong. Amia.

F

D

C

Represented in some cases due to I'm, not English native speaker, um but that's probably the main difference, I see- and sometimes you know it's hard to you know, understand, jargon or some other things or jokes, but.

C

Okay, next one with me, we have the last year's. So then we go for the two years ago, which is CBD, follow, which is this one CPG I'm not sure about. But then what's the mean, I think.

B

It's community participation guidelines, yeah.

C

Yeah yeah right.

C

Okay, so it's it's, this code of conduct, kind of blah.

A

A

On registration during the event, I think we already have, that is he going to the event code of conduct, one.

A

E

The next one would be in which no it's not gender pronounce, so this one.

A

So okay I already got about that one I'm still on the communication and community participation, sir I wanted to make sure we have those questions captures already.

A

I'm, looking at the foot of conduct that depends yeah she's like there. It went diversity and then could have connected events. I I don't see the one that we had in Mozilla.

A

We have similar ones, but not one that is as comprehensive. Oh.

A

No, we do have it last three items. Oh.

E

You should this one in study. It's done no.

A

In success, metrics, quantitative, the last three, the ones with the I behind it.

A

The sub bullet points on registration during the event. Okay,.

E

A

Are exactly taken from here and already recognized.

E

A

I did good work.

C

Okay, so this is taste we do have them today in the next one is in their pronounced.

E

But item like we happy.

A

I put it in our meeting minutes: okay,.

C

And then the very last money. It's sorry! Oh sorry, for the time. I guess.

A

Yeah there were some good lessons learned in that document.

A

A

Okay, so let's move on to the next.

C

Let me close this.

B

Okay, I have to I have to drop off, as you saw I'll see you all later. Okay,.

E

A

C

Okay, current contributor yep.

A

Nicole I know you're on the call and listening do you have any new comments? Yeah.

F

No, no I would have been the same as yours, so no.

A

A

C

A menu could happen. Oh go ahead.

A

The first one around yeah, whatever the second one, that is.

A

C

A purchase on page, we have this discussion in.

E

F

Can't remember when we met it out on that discussion, but I remember we had an earlier discussion around it. Yeah.

C

So yeah I was looking for. Dazing is in the dimensions of demographics. We have so one of them is. We have an old.

D

C

A

Yeah and the Apache survey had a very similar question, so I'm going to add it.

A

A

Think we shouldn't with this I.

C

Remember I remember talking to schewe artist and it was a really interesting one. Perhaps this is more focused on newcomers to the community, which is in any case pretty interesting, because then she was having information about mentorship programs.

C

If you want to be a mentor in the future suggestions and then some demographics, as you can see so, but yeah, basically the mentorship parties or something here so.

A

That's excellent.

A

A

Like the do you plan to submit more patches in the future as a measure for plan to continue contribution.

A

And then we have mentorship metrics.

A

Which we have to review whether we can add those to our mentorship metrics? Oh.

A

And then the next one here suggestion for onboarding is on.

A

A

Okay and I think we can skip the identify and hmm yeah.

C

Okay, next one, okay.

E

C

So then we follow Walt. Did you step in the more effects so open source survey it have? Oh, there is another survey. I remember from liver show where I used to work- and it's not here I should add this, but it's more about open source in general, then it happened that they were asking for the gender it will not produce anyway.

C

This link- maybe the results of the survey you know- is- are requesting fine.

A

So which one I really know it opens Claire. Oh no,.

D

Open source, sorry, it have.

A

A

C

So they are asking. The first question is about participation, type.

A

Okay, yeah I think we can skip that.

A

You think so what.

A

You're so I understand that it's interesting mm-hmm, but it falls in the category of interest, include.

F

F

Again, some wandering of this one I.

F

Are there any correlations to be drawn between the two meaning?

F

If you're coming from an underrepresented group, are you more likely you need to fall into one of these categories more than another? Okay, do you know what I mean it may be? If that's the case, maybe it makes it more relevant.

F

But then number four as I'm looking through this number four is been extremely broad.

F

Because it includes everything from you know, submitting full requests to contributing to Docs.

F

To code yeah I mean that one is really broad I, don't know the way that it's structured now I think we would end up restructuring it well number one, you know. Is it considering it's relevant and then number two I think we would end up.

F

Perhaps if we decided yes 101, we might end up restructuring it to break it apart, a little bit.

C

Perhaps it's it's a I think this discussion is interesting. If we understand the country with tors path and somehow so it's not a Socrates but I, don't know, for instance, if there's any difference well, there are difference for sure if you are paying versus if you are and pay or if you are able to attend conferences and if you are not or if you already know now the people that are participating in the prior- that, if you don't know them or if you feel comfortable, producing well participate in an open-source community of compared.

C

If you are a newcomer, so understanding that contribute or spa I think it makes sense. But what do you think Nicole Eggert I.

A

Believe we do have a metric that is one that I've been trying to develop for a while and that's diversity of contributions, and it's a lot of work. Yeah.

E

A

Complicated one and I think asking here: how do you participate in open source can give us information about this diversity of contributions, question or metric and to win the cold point? If we look at question one answer for yes, it includes a lot, but that's why we have question two which gets triggered if you answer option for two, then break it out.

F

See I interpreted, number two I think a little differently and maybe.

F

So how are you interpreting number? Do you mean question two or do you mean answer to a question? One I.

A

Was talking about question one answer for and if you answer that, then question to the grid is being done. Oh.

F

A

Goti said that okay question one answer for participated in open source development with all of these different options. That is very broad and that's why this survey has question two then clarify how people are actually engaging in the winter yeah.

F

Yeah I see it now, it's right after that participation type for then yeah.

F

Yeah, thank you. I do agree to Danielle that did this almost gets to that contributor Pass. It's almost attempting that right.

F

But it feels like it doesn't quite get there right, yeah, it's like it's making its way in that direction.

A

Yeah, okay, I put it down as a diversity of contributions or contributor path, metric.

A

E

A

C

Okay, so so then we have employment status that we agree. It is.

A

C

Professional, oh.

C

Yeah, how often you continue to produce yourself or general.

A

C

About experience, maybe okay, future continuation interests.

C

How interested interested are you in contributing to open source parades in the future mmm yeah? Maybe two year, Alice well yeah same as Peter contribution likelihood.

C

Okay, so those are kind of framing the rest of the survey seems to be them determinants of consumption contribution.

A

So there are some items in here that are good for you not yeah.

D

A

So, for example,.

A

Those are the four that I see here that are going to be nigh.

E

A

C

One she said again: code.

A

Of conduct contributing guide, responsive, maintain, errs welcoming community mmm-hmm.

C

Yes, I agree: William.

C

Then, if we go for open source software contributor priorities, so we thinking about whether to contribute an open source play. Yet how important are the following things.

C

So the previous one was: oh, it's not you, sir okay, so the first one was what you, sir, the second one is about contribute or when you are consuming on. Okay, I. Think.

C

E

C

A

Yeah I think we can I think they fall into the same category. Somehow one is contributing.

A

F

Everyone, sir yeah, the other one, seemed to me to be business considerations.

F

A

That we have it.

F

Named as DNI considerations, yeah.

A

I'm going I'm going through I'm already past question: eight I know.

E

A

E

A

Call you we're also looking at the questions that come after this.

E

Pretty dish once oh there's.

A

Some mentorship help section 22.

C

C

Get mentorship I.

C

Think all of these are interesting right from endorsing perspective I.

A

A

I'm, adding them to our meeting minutes.

C

Let you have time issues within a four month here: Oh.

A

Harassment inclusivity, yes, those are very relevant.

A

And it does look like they have dishes here.

A

Why they switched your table here or it was all lists, I.

C

Don't know well, they had some table.

A

Yeah, that's a matrix not for multiple-choice.

C

Litigate, all of these are interesting to have.

F

Wow, this is a lot of questions here.

A

C

Then the next one is open sourcing bait work. Then this is either one in the end, the more eggs, and then this is all probably the last one is average man.

C

Okay, shall I go to the next one.

A

I'm still typing up notes from what we discussed about this one.

A

A

Like the idea of Simon at the demographics right now,.

A

Minority we did have that race, ethnicity,.

A

No to your home country and.

A

A

This one is a junior.

C

Do you think that one might be interesting to find formal education.

A

That's one parents.

C

Formal education recipe, if you are scaling in the social.

A

Okay, I think we can skip 52 and 53.

A

Okay: let's go on to the next survey, so.

C

There are a couple of minutes to the end of the meeting.

C

Should we leave this here and we take note the next one is different overstock they were to do survey 2015.

A

E

C

Wondering if we are having DNA meeting next week.

C

A

C

You attending my any chance. We call all things open.

F

Unfortunately, no I won't be there. Will you be there? Yes,.

C

I'll, be there my first out.

F

Oh, oh you're gonna really enjoy it. It's a great event. It's a great event: I was there last year, I think you'll enjoy it.

F

Unfortunately, I will not be there, but I will be in Europe Leone. No.

C

No, this time I'll be on vacation these days.

F

Okay, okay turn: it started we're gonna miss each other.

F

Will you be.

A

At either one which so I will not bring the old, but I will be at all things open. Was there a third one? Oh.

F

Okay yeah, just the two I was asking about, but you're gonna be an ATO but you'll be in still.

C

A

C

Be there and I will be there as well, so yeah the work there will be okay.

E

I'd know at.

A

German pray, I, don't think so, but she is sponsoring coming to chaos. Conan passed them mm-hmm.

E

C

So, are you planning to come to force them Nicole, maybe.

F

We will we will have to see about that one. Thank you. Yeah.

C

Well, yeah, last first weekend of February I did what the Kyoko's happening, not only some the 31st of January yeah, okay,.

F

F

A

I also saw that sustained summit will be before FOSDEM. Oh really, I, don't think they have released the date of the event yet, but they might probably do it the same day as chaos. Town, oh.

C

No, they said that they are gonna. Have these January 30th? Oh, they.

A

C

This is the day before ring yeah. Yes,.

A

That's I'm gonna ask that we travelled there a day sooner, because it's an amazing conference generally I would.

C

Like to either okay.

A

I wanna: okay: let's take our other plans.

F

Oh and I will respond to and you're the I was. It was nice to see diem then about changing the moving time. So I'm gonna respond to that right. After that, this meeting yeah.

A

Yeah excellent Thank, You Nicole yeah. You can find a time that works or all of us a little better. That.

F

Would be awesome? Yes, cool, okay, okay, great thanks guys! Yes, thank you.