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From YouTube: CHAOSS Evolution Working Group Meeting 3-3-21
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A
All
right
so
welcome
to
the
evolution
working
group
meeting
for
march
3rd
of
the
year
2021
welcome
to
march,
and
today,
following
our
meeting
in
the
general
meeting
yesterday,
I
thought
maybe
we
might
revisit
our
goals
and
metrics
for
development,
see
what
what
work
we
have
and
what
work
we
want
to
accomplish
and
if
there's,
if
this
is
the
place
to
do
that,
work
or
if,
if
this
working
group
needs
to
meet
less
frequently
or
focus
in
a
different
way,
I'm
like
open
to
all
suggestions,
I'm
sharing
so
now.
A
I
have
to
bring
my
sharing
over
here
to
find
my
chat,
so
I
think
kevin
you
arrived
after
the
last
time.
I
posted
our
meeting
notes
all
right.
I
have
them.
I
just
posted
them
again.
A
A
So
we
have
change
request,
iteration.
A
A
Yeah
change
request:
iteration
iteration
yeah
matt's
logged
into
the
document,
so
it
may
be
that
he
is
nope.
I
can't
getting
that
request.
A
It
could
be
that
somebody
moved
all
of
our
documents
into
the
chaos
group
and
didn't
leave
the
access
intact.
Yes,.
A
To
this
one,
we
do
ratio
issues
to
change,
requests.
A
E
A
It's
it's
also,
okay,
so
it's
there
is
a
start
on
that.
One.
A
So
started
working
document
and
I
think
the
first
one
I
looked
at
well,
I
couldn't
see
it
so
I
don't
know
derivative
change,
request
comments.
F
C
D
A
No
okay,
I
don't
know
where
the
I
don't
know
who
owns
that
document.
A
It
doesn't
tell
me
who
the
request
even
went
to.
Let
me
just
jump
over
to
my
email
and
make
sure
it
didn't
go
to
me.
A
G
A
Change
request:
comment:
diversity,
another
request
access,
so
once
we
get
access
we'll
copy
these
over,
so
we
don't
lose
access.
It
seems
that
we
have
a
couple
that
we
could,
that
we
have
access
to
that.
We
could
look
at
the
ratio
of
issues
to
change
requests,
and
this
is
also
the
ratio
of
issues
to
change
requests
and
then
change.
Request
issue
mapping
appears
more
more
well
developed.
A
Under
in
progress,
maybe
looks
like
they're
pretty
much
all
up
here,
except
for
change.
Request,
comment
diversity.
Maybe
we
can
take
a
little
poll
here.
Let
me
clean
up
all
I'll
change,
I'll
change
to
my
full
screen,
so
we
can
go
between
apps
and
just
have
to
move
some
stuff
off
of
it.
A
A
A
D
A
A
I'm
gonna
go
into
the
chaos
community
and
I'm
gonna
create
a.
A
A
A
Do
folks
have
a
sense
of
which
of
the
metrics
that
we
have
like?
I
have
opinions,
but
I
don't
want
to
be
the
only
opinion
stater
so
of
these
metrics,
which
the
others
think
are
most
maybe
a
priority
for
work
and
release.
C
I
would
say
the
one
in
progress
should
we
we
should
prioritize
them,
because
there
is
some
discussion
or
thoughts
already
in
there.
I'm
not
sure,
that's
my
two
cents
in
the
documents
themselves,
you
mean
for
it.
A
C
What
I'm
saying
is
those
metrics
which
are
in
progress
should
be
prioritized
first
for,
like
refining
and
making
it
ready
for
the
release.
A
A
A
Does
that
I
need
to
request
access
to,
but
yeah
the
ones
the
ones
in
what
is
that
yellow
or
is
that
yellow
it's
not
really
yellow?
It's
like
a
beige.
I
guess
yeah.
A
H
A
And
I
thought
if
we
made
a
list
and
stated
our
priorities,
it
would
be
helpful.
C
G
Yeah,
so
I'm
I'm
actually
looking
at
this
now,
I'm
really.
I'm
really
surprised
there
aren't
more
metrics
in
code
development
activity
right
because
the
the
these
should
be
the
those
should
be
the
easiest
metrics
right.
These
are
the
the
basic
metrics
and
maybe
that's
why
we've
been
ignoring
them
yeah.
I.
A
Well,
I
think
also
they
like
code
changes
and
code
line
changes
and
the
change
request
acceptance
one
under
efficiency,
which
arguably
belongs
under.
A
It
is
that's
so
when
we
look
at
code,
changes
and
code
change
lines,
that's
at
the
commit
level
and
we
can
get
a
sense
of
what
is
changed
in
every
commit
effectively
in
a
change
request.
If
we
look
at
the
files
and
the
commits,
then
we
we
could
different.
We
could
reference
the
commits
and
the
code
changes
and
code
changes
lines
and
we
would
be
able
to
talk
about
the
amount
of
work
and
great
in
enormous
detail.
A
G
G
Yeah,
I
think
that
was
a
little
bit
my
point
on
why
code
development
activity
isn't
built
out
as
as
much
as
it
should
be
right.
There's
there's
so
much
prior
work
on
code
development
activity
in
research
communities
we
could
go
through
and
we
could
define
a
bunch
of
metrics
pretty
quickly,
just
based
on
prior
work
right
in
this
area.
H
And
now
I
can
even
cite
some
a
couple
of
matrixes
that
I
cited
in
some
of
my
work.
But
the
kind
of
feedbacks
I
got
from
reviewers
were
not
very
funny
and
I
had
to
adapt
and
justify
things.
H
A
I'm
just
opening
up
not
I
swear.
This
is
not
an
act
of
blatant
self-promotion.
This
is
the
sohil
paper
that
we
have
on
auger
and
kevin
did
a
pretty
substantial.
I
would
say
a
very
substantial
amount
of
work.
A
Yes,
it
is,
it
is
an
impressive
amount
of
work.
I'm
sorry
that
was
my
self-promotion,
but
yeah
it
is.
It
is
really
an
impressive
review
of
the
literature
on
on
how
really
evolution
is
measured.
If
you
look
at
a
lot
of
these
models,
a
lot
of
these
things,
they
kevin's
done
a
nice
job,
classifying
them
as
sufficient
scale,
project
culture,
project,
quality,
product
quality,
contextualized
risk
license
risk
and
corporate
corporatization
and
access
to
resources.
A
H
H
Recently
I
submitted
a
paper
for
exit
was
accepted,
but
the
people
asked
me
to
remove
that
what
elephant
factor
why
they
said
it?
I
will
try
to
look
that
those
reviewers
comment.
They
said
it
was
like
a
kind
of
language
that
is
not
kind
of,
and
then
when
I
try
to
use
what
eleni
and
men's
have
proposed,
which
is
the
same
kind
of
concept
that
this
one
they
said
yeah.
This
one
is
more
appropriate.
A
H
Yeah
yeah
yeah,
even
like
the
the
thing
I
saw,
the
the
name
that
er
torments
used
is
the
same
concept,
but
sometimes
I
understand
xc
is
like
the
premiere.
They
don't
want
to
put
something
there
and
people
start
criticizing
it.
So
they
really
want
to
see
how
much
people
have
reason
about
it.
You
know
yeah.
A
I
think
it's
I
would
say
that
dixie
is
like
any
other
discourse
community,
in
that
they
have
a
language
that
they've
adopted
for
referring
to
common
things.
Just
like
chaos
has
adopted
language
and
definitions
for
metrics.
When
I
was
talking
to
some
academic
computing
folks
earlier
today,
working
on
a
project
called
fair
software.
A
You
know
I
explained,
there's
really
two
things
that
chaos
provides.
One
is
when
you
go
to
measure
and
understand
software,
health
and
sustainability
or
production
people
have
argued
about
what
a
commit
is
for
years.
We're
not
saying
we're
right,
but
we're
consistent
and
what
the
definitions
provide
is
a
consistent
definition,
so
that,
when
somebody
else
wants
to
measure
something
else,
they
don't
need
to
like
to
argue
about
the
definition
for
three
weeks
yeah.
H
G
G
Part
of
my
point
earlier
was
that
I
think
there
are
some
there
are
some
basic
metrics
that
are
just
they're
just
going
to
be
easy
and
we
need
to,
and
we
probably
just
we
need
to
get
them
defined
and
that
the
change
request
commits
up.
There
is
one
of
them
yeah.
The
number
of
commits
the
number
of
comments,
the
the
number
of
files.
G
A
Change
request:
we
learned
that
change,
request,
review
comments
are
a
different
thing
as
well.
In
github.
A
I
had
always
thought
candidly
that
that
change
require
that
review
comments
were
would
be
included
in
the
change
request
or
the
pull
request
and
github
api
comment
api,
and
I
was
surprised
that
they
weren't
and
so
augur
now
includes
them
as
a
separate
table.
Excellent.
H
Okay,
they
just
said
this
elephant
factor,
which
I
explained
it
more
broadly
like
explain.
The
elephant
share
the
river
said
such
terms
should
be
avoided
and
that
yeah
should
be
avoided.
They
say
short,
informal,
informal
term
they
use
it
like
it
is.
An
informal
theme
should
be
avoided.
A
H
At
all,
no,
it
should
be
measured.
You
understand,
but
like
what
I
was
saying
is
that
it's
not
something
that
we
should
really
like
over
worried.
But
if
we
see
what
the
academic
has
already
used
like
the
names,
we
could
now
use
that,
and
then
I
don't
know
if
you
want
to
keep
the
lf
and
share.
We
just
reference
that.
G
Yeah,
I
I
would
say
if
reviews
or
not
reviews
are
not
always
good
yeah,
so.
A
H
Yeah
mining
software
repository
is
usually
a
co-located
event
like
to
my
opinion.
What
we
measured
is
not
really
like:
it's
not
bad.
It's
just
that
sometimes
to
my
opinion
is
like.
If
you
are
sending
a
paper
also
to
txe
and
emx
they
do.
They
just
want
to
be
sure
that
what
goes
in
should
not
be
revoked
by
another
researcher
later
time
that
discredit
this
kind
of
journal,
so
to
miss
more
of
their
reputation
than
the
metrics
itself
right.
How
much
people
have
cited?
This
might
be.
H
H
A
Yeah,
essentially,
it's
a
sort
of
an
academic
custom
of
citing
the
often
for
a
term
like
for
a
concept
that
we
think
of
as
elephant
factor.
There
is
some
canonical
paper
somewhere
where
it's
it's
developed,
we're
initially
so
community-based
production.
What
do
we
know
about
developers
who
participate?
This
is
the
most
cited
article.
A
F
A
A
E
A
H
So
one
of
the
top
vp
for
sales
mentioned
this
couple
of
times,
but
I
did
not
really
find
any
concrete
documentation
like
official
documentation
that
really
states
that
clearly,
I
would
have
just
cited
that
paper
and
say:
okay.
This
is
something
that
they
are
using
to
prevent.
Let's
say
a
company
like
canonical
red
hat
ibm
to
carry
it.
This
share
yeah.
A
I
think
I
think
tom
manns
or
some
of
the
folks
at
gremore
lab
I'm
thinking
of
jesus
and
daniel
yeah.
Those
three
folks
I
I
think,
have
been
involved
in
parallel
in
the
academic
software
engineering
community.
F
A
Production
of
metrics
and
software
for
metrics
yeah
for
for
longer
than
I
have.
I
have
a
broader
set
of
interests
that
has
now
focused
last
five
years
on
open
source
software,
but
I
think
they've
spent
much
longer
and
are
likely
to
know
the
the
history
and
perhaps
the
ixi,
the
canonical
ixi
paper
for
elephant
factor.
Yeah.
H
H
I
think
jesus
has
an
article
because
I
even
tried
to
cite
that
article.
I
saw
it
on
open
source
website,
but
then
it
was
not
really.
It
was
not
really
inspired
by.
A
H
I
actually
said
right:
I
think
that
was
this
open
source
thing
by
red
hat,
not
really
an
academic
paper.
H
G
Yeah,
I
thought
the
term
was
coined
by
one
of
the
red
hat
people.
G
A
Okay,
well,
let's,
let's
suspend
this
discussion,
I
don't.
I
think
we
can
leave
that
as
an
action.
Okay,.
H
G
A
G
G
In
the
sohil
paper,
I
don't
think
it
is,
I
think
bust
factory
is.
A
G
Oh,
and
you
know,
I
think
I
was.
F
G
G
Yeah
as
at
no
as
it's
essentially
the
same
thing
as
bus
factor
but
less
gruesome,.
J
G
Yeah,
I
think
the
the
the
idea
is
that
you're,
it's
more
rather
than
rather
than
focusing
on
the
the
death
or
whatever
the
leaving,
it's
more,
that
the
you're
a
pretty
pretty
pony.
Who
is
the
okay
paranoid
of
attention?
So
I
think.
A
Armstrong,
I
threw
into
the
notes
to
ask
you
to
just
you
know:
I
I
mean
maybe
give
an
email
to
tom
men's
and
jesus
and
and
ask
them.
You
know,
from
an
ixi
perspective,
we've
used,
we've
released
fat,
we've
released,
metrics,
called
elephant
factor
and
bus
factor.
A
Are
there
canonical
papers
that
call
these
things
something
different
that
might
be
more
appropriate
and
descriptive
names
for
the
the
related
chaos
metrics?
Those
are
those
clearly
very
colloquial
names
for
metrics
that
do
not.
A
You
know
when
someone
sees
it
for
the
first
time
and
they're
new
to
software
open
source
software
metrics
will
not
know
what
that
means
until
they
read
the
metric,
like
the
the
actual
name,
is
not
inherently
descriptive
to
a
to
a
newcomer,
so
if
they
have
a
term
or
a
a
lot,
even
if
it's
a
longer
term-
and
it
probably
is
I
I
I
think
you
know-
we
should
consider
changing
the
name
of
our
metrics.
A
Yeah
yeah,
I
I
think
when
meta
reviewers
ask
you
to
not
use
language,
I
it
means
that
the
the
community
doesn't
accept
that
language
I
think
exceed
I.
They
have
done
a
lot
of
the
work
on
impact
of
software
engineering,
so
ixi
is
certainly
a
a
place
to
to
look
for,
but
especially
when
we
have
a
metric
metric
names
like
bus
factor
and
elephant
factor
that
a
newcomer
will
just
not
understand
at
all.
If
they
have
a
more
descriptive
thing,
they
call
it
I'm
cool.
H
B
Article
was
was
a
blog
right,
yeah
yeah.
E
A
G
A
Yeah
yeah,
I
mean
obviously
these
name
but
like
a
lot
of
things,
if
you
look
at
the
unix
command
line
name,
those
came
out
of
people
dropping
acid
in
berkeley
in
the
60s
and
similarly
some
person,
probably
a
guy,
came
up
with
this
in
a
lab
and
it's
stuck
so
yeah.
If,
if
we
can
provide
language,
that
is
more.
G
I
actually
I
have
some
interviews
with
a
few
kind
of
open
source
old
timers
and
I've
heard
I've
heard
a
couple
stories
about
hanging
out
in
berkeley
with
the
grateful
dead.
A
A
Anyhow
side
conversation
we've
got
three
minutes
left.
I
think
we
got
an
action
item.
A
H
G
H
Yeah,
I
think
I
see
where
you
are
coming
from,
because
sometimes
it's
also
good
to
know
the
number
of
people
that
looked
into
a
review
that
can
really
help
to
avoid
a
bird
sleeping
in,
for
example,
if
one
person
is
just
a
reviewer,
what
are
the
chances
that
he
can
critically
capture
things
like
the
debates
or
some
some
bad
smells,
and
things
like
that.
I.
A
H
A
A
A
A
A
Essentially,
how
quickly
does
a
project
move
yeah?
I
think
that
it
has
an
influence
on
how
many
people
how
how
people
stay
with
the
project
or
not,
for
example,
if
their
change
request
is
accepted,
we
know
people
are
more
likely
to
stay.
Window
of
change.
Requests
are
closed
more
quickly.
People
are
more
more
likely
to
stay,
engaged
and
so
process.
A
Of
reviews
and
what
their
content
is
and
stuff
and
there's
probably
a
direct
correlate
to
software
quality.
There
is,
I
believe
there
is
there's
in
my
I'm
a
software
engineer.
I
teach
software
engineering
and
I
strongly
believe
there
is
a
strong
correlation
between
the
review
process
or
lack
of
therein
and
the
quality
of
the
released
product.
A
A
C
On
this
reviewer,
I
had
this
objection
of
what
you
call:
what
kind
of
reviewer
is
it
like
diversity
of
the
reviewers
or
it's
like
equity
of
the
reviewers.
A
I
Yes,
yeah
actually,
all
right.
That's
no
problem
I'll,
just
I'll
just
copy.
A
G
A
A
G
Just
something
to
think
about
when
we're
writing
it,
because
the
there
is.
There
is
a
situation
where
all
comments
could
be
grouped
together
and
it
would
be
interesting
to
understand
all
comments
within
a
change
request,
but
at
the
same
time
we
I
think
they
have
to
be
thought
of
as
separate
entities
as.
E
G
A
Or
so,
unless
somebody
else
wants
to
volunteer
I'll.
Take
that
as
an
action
item
for
the
next
meeting
to
look
into
the
get
lab
api
and
figure
out
where
we
stand
there.
A
In
the
get
lab
and
github
api,
so
this
is
not
a
problem.
This
is.
This
is
not
a
lot
of
time.
For
me,.
C
C
A
Called
comprehensive
exam
yeah,
it's
one
of
the
ways
we
torture,
doctoral
students,
doordar,
it's
it's
it's!
You
know
what
here
this
process
exists,
because
when
we
grant
a
phd
from
our
in
the
institution,
we
want
the
folks
who
have
our
phd
to
be
able
to
go
into
the
world
and
defend
their
ideas
without
being
defensive.
A
Yeah
ask
questions
instead
of
getting
into
arguments
to
to
really
have
reasoned
intellectual
debates,
and
so
the
comprehensive
exam
is
practice
for.
How
do
I
generate
an
idea?
Accept
the
criticism
and
respond
to
it.
It's
it's
part
of.
I
think
I
think.
Well,
first
of
all,
if
you
don't
know
your
stuff
you're
just
going
to
fail
right.
F
A
I
am
utterly
kidding,
but
but
totally
not
serious
there.
I
think.
H
A
Compulsory,
I
I
think
the
first
thing
at
our
next
meeting,
we'll
begin
work
on
on
change.
Request
commits
like
that.
That
can
be.
Our
first
thing
is
we
we
spend.
F
A
On
that
and
then
just
sort
of
charge
forward
and
start
using
these
meetings
more
as
working
meetings.
A
A
I
think
that
that
I'm
gonna
say
we
have
concluded
our
our
evolution
working
group
meeting
for
march
3rd
2021.
Our
next
meeting
is
on
st
patrick's
day.
I
encourage
everyone
to
wear
green
and
I
will
see
you
all
at
some
other
chaos
meeting
soon,
except
for
you
vanad.