CHAOSS Evolution Working Group, 20 May 2020

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From YouTube: CHAOSS.Evolution.May.20.2020

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CHAOSS.Evolution.May.20.2020

A

According all, right hi everyone, this is the evolution working group meeting for May 20th, 2020 Wow, oh five, twenty, twenty, twenty I, guess and I'm. Just gonna put the meeting minutes in the chat, but that is that youtube link. Apparently I did not copy and paste super. Well. Let me try this again boom.

A

So those are the meeting minutes. I see anonymous ferret is doing some editing. That would be me. Okay, fair though yeah man, it's just Google's random assignment of a thing to you right.

B

C

A

Crumb I could take notes Carter if you weren't able to be its last meeting, because you were not doing so hot I'm not doing so hot right, but I was sick. There was a lot of discussion just to bring you up to speed about getting rid of some of the archival pieces of of our repository and and making it like, and let me just bring up your chaos, w/g evolution.

A

Just give me one second here.

A

Github is being a little bit slow for me this morning.

C

How's it going I'm trying, hey I'm, strong.

A

I just wanted to show.

A

I'm wanting to show what we wanted to rearrange and then actually issue a pull request to rearrange it while we're sitting here.

D

Is it issue 356 with everything orders in the evolution, repo yeah.

A

Yeah, exactly it's exactly what it is and I'm just taking my own sweet time here for some reason, all right.

A

All right so essentially.

A

Okay, now I'm gonna share a screen host attendees sharing disabled.

A

Host disabled attendee, a screen sharing I.

B

Have to make you co-host, I've done this for security reasons, yeah! No, it's totally cool.

A

Yeah, so people aren't sharing porn or whatever. So the thought was that this is my fork of evolution. The thought was that we would get rid of bin.

A

We would actually get rid of the use cases, bin and I believe implementations that they are not widely used or maintained by the current folks in the group, and they are different in very very fundamental ways than every other working groups group operates. All did I cover that discussion. Well,.

B

Yeah I mean it's just I think the goal is to get the repository worst. Reena, essentially, is what it is less confusing. So.

A

So the question I have is: do I, delete them and then just they're in the history of the repo of course, and if somebody wants to go look at them, they can or do we create some kind of archive directory. Those are.

B

They just delete them because the the history is out of the archive okay,.

D

Maybe is to make a like a tag or release and air quotes just so. We can pinpoint exactly when the last time that we had them was I can get hub.

D

So you can tag specific commits in github as being like unreleased or.

B

Just like ours, but.

D

Get tagged, I see yeah.

D

And the other thing in that issue it looked like was keeping the meeting notes or getting rid of them. I am in favor of keeping them because in.

E

C

D

Yeah people don't have access to Google Docs. Don't have any other way to look at the meeting notes.

C

So posterity sake, I think it would I think link to the meeting.

F

Notes is in the readme file first on the very first page and it lands on the evolution page.

D

It is but I'm I'm Susan to be talking about the sorry that wasn't cleared then there's a copy of the meeting notes from the Google Docs that we use, that is in a markdown folder in the repository and part of the issue, was getting rid or deleting that file and I think we should keep that file. The markdown file with the archive of the meeting notes, are you keeping it up-to-date. I didn't do the last meeting, but other than that? Yes, I had been keeping it today. Yeah.

B

As long as you bring it up to date, but I don't have a problem with that and not every working group is doing that, but you want to do it. That's no problem.

A

So I'm just gonna do a release right now in master.

A

That is indicates that it's a this is the release before we did. The pull request that I'm going to issue now, which is to basically compare across forks, bring the changes that.

A

And so yours can be arms.

A

What's your what's your handle Armstrong I always forget. This is I'm stronger. Welcome.

G

Jim you once will get.

A

On the app found, Jim I always forget that in car, so I don't know if you, if you want to.

A

This doesn't fit any labels really so I don't put any labels on it, but you know you can um you can go ahead and review that now or review it in the future, but that is basically the fulfillment of what we talked about last time under pull requests. What is now 359.

G

Ok I'll check, though yeah and.

A

Looking at our meeting notes, that was that was about the main thing we discussed the last week her or the last time there was an ablution meeting and I.

A

Think we also want to I think we did a final review of the in active contributors metric and put that one into continuous release from you.

A

And then we did, we did look at the spreadsheet, but I don't think we made any progress with it. So not sure where? Where should we start today?.

D

I think we can probably just start with taking a metric on. That's been cheap, maybe one that, from the section we haven't spent as much time on or just picking a metric and starting to work through it.

A

Ok, it makes sense to me I'm sharing my screen of our evolutionary metrics.

A

We have ones that we're considering. We have an active contributors under community review.

A

And we have some I think these are mostly blank at Google, Docs I, don't know if there are ones up here like coder, you iteration that possibly have been started.

D

I think the iteration that this is the wrong link, I think all.

A

Right here ye, this looks like code review comments.

D

So that Google Doc must be wrong. Yeah.

A

How the code review comments, reviews comments in the list. This is reviews comments.

A

Which is not developed, but there is this. This link to code review comments under the wrong linked area, so I don't know what we do with that.

A

Sorry so I think I heard somebody say something: I mean.

D

Should we just make a code review comments metric? Yes, if we want one and then we could one for code review iteration or we could you know if that is if we want the comments metric.

A

I mean I think we do want I think we want both of those metrics but in the wrong place right. The links are wrong, so he just fix the links. I think that'd be fine, so this is code review comments, I'm, going to copy that, if I can find my keyboard.

A

All right, so this is our view, comments.

A

That's what the file actually is, and then this is the empty one which I'm just going to move that link up to code review iteration and now we have an empty one: encoder generation and a populated one correctly in code review comments, and so.

A

Don't need that, so what comments were posted on a given code, review and repository?

A

Do we have a goal at this level of.

B

No, okay, the focus area has the goal. Okay, so the hashtag code review comments question. It's probably worth noting what focus area you think this fits in. Is that other code review comments? No that's right. A title of this I think.

A

I think the spreadsheets kind of telling us the focus area isn't activity yeah put a little activity. um Does that that maps to our focus areas? Doesn't it okay, all right good for consistent? Yes,.

A

So I don't know if we want to read through this individually and make suggestions or or edits or if I don't know. How do you want to the folks who are folks want to proceed in developing this metric.

B

Oftentimes, what works well is just kind of a 15-minute hack session. Okay, where we're all editing and talking about it or is it fairly quiet? It's quiet. It's like you, know, 10 or 15 minutes and then kind of coming back and talking through these.

E

B

Yeah I mean other than grammar all.

A

Right all right do we want to pause the recording, while.

E

We do that so that people aren't watching under because well what should be recording.

A

Later on, oh I,.

E

Say yeah yeah come to.

G

Collage I don't mind keeping.

A

My screen shared I'll, keep my screen shared like this, and it's put a fifteen minute timer on this, and my first act will be don't get my coffee and then begin work.

G

So we are doing the reveal on the code review comments. Yes,.

B

Go through it Armstrong and just start making changes; okay, as if you don't understand something just fix it, so that it makes more sense to you. Okay, okay,.

D

Should we do the like editing feature without sorcery testing kind.

B

Of people look a little bit of both just because sometimes suggesting gets a long wait. Everybody just accepts all suggestions, typically.

B

Too much so how about this? If you have like a huge deletion, maybe do suggestion, but if it's just editing stuff just do an editing mode.

C

That's it whatever.

A

So I immediately now have a question: do we mean code reviews like the code reviews that happened during a pull request, or are we talking about reviews, which is the evolution word for pull requests.

D

They also have that question to me. I would think well. It looks like this metric was specifically written for what is called a code review. If you look at the reference at the very bottom, references to a code review feature alright, so maybe it would maybe that's what it was originally intended for, but we have everything else. Almost everything else.

D

Besides code review, efficiency label does just review and then reuse, and then, whatever the thing we're measuring is so I think it would probably be confusing to have both of those and have them mean two different things, because the difference to me is not immediately apparent ya.

G

Know just a sec: please can we just point this pitch on some way that we could you want to put it in the chat I'm trying? Yes, please is.

H

This the is this the number of comments or the quality of the comments. What order can you put a link to this? Yes, so.

A

Like if I have a full review, I can make a straight-up comment on the full review or I can look at the files changed and make comments within it, which, on github they're, both gonna show up, as as comments on a pull request, whether or not they're formally part of a review. I believe.

A

But it could be different for other platforms and so I think that's where I think.

I

So what what comments is pretty vague as well? That could be? It could be a frequency that could be a who posted these comments. It could be yeah that could be anything. Those could be filters like.

A

Person comment count time period I mean those can all be filters that we add I.

A

Guess are we right, I mean? Are we code review comments in the way that I guess reviews is what we're calling pull requests? So a code review is like I think we need to point out that this is distinct from a a review that is opera. It's the thing from a review. I, don't know.

A

A

So we're I guess my question is as we edit are. We writing to an ordinary code review as we understand it and software engineering are. We writing to something else. I'm inclined to write it towards an ordinary code review and software engineering I would agree.

D

Because I think doing yeah I'd be.

A

Okay, that's what I'm gonna do unless somebody objects.

I

By that you're saying a an actual code review and not a pull request, comment correct, okay,.

I

Perhaps we need to change the name of this then to reflect that distinction, because because, as we've said earlier, code review and evolution means pull, request, review and evolution.

A

Means pull request, yeah.

I

Oh, the the code is the distinction yeah, okay,.

F

Filter seems to be more focused on the aggregation than on the quality, so it's like in the objective we have written. The car noise comments that are attached to given to the code can do more on feeling or attitude attached. Words are giving code.

F

Are we focused on that aggregation or the war on feel or inclination, or the quality of the food on a review?.

E

These are about objectives or filters.

F

So in filters we are having more on that our focuses on the aggregation site, but in the object we are focus on both on the aggregation and on the quality yeah.

E

I think the filter filters are I.

A

The ones I put in there are ones that are common for, like I'm imagining actually creating this metric in the first question. I'm gonna have is what is the scope of time period? I want to look at pull, requests or a cobra view, comments for and then for each pull request, how many reviews are performed and then how many comments for each of those reviews and how many total reviews? How many comments for all of the reviews aggregated together and how many, maybe it's more reviewer account.

A

Although yeah, because I've heard the review accountant review count, the same thing.

D

It's not, it could be. I can submit multiple reviews on a pull request, honourable times after changes, but the reviewer lists will only ever be one so.

D

I think we should focus in the objective on the quantity development activity is all about their to me. The goal is to measure just like the volume of activity, like not said, trying to say so much if it's efficient or how good it is just trying to capture that in some meaningful way, which is why I changed proposed to change. What, in the question, how many, which Hall is a lot of what the other evolution metrics do if I remember correctly,.

A

A

Don't know about implementation.

D

Yeah, the textin has this: Sexton implementation been at a bid, yet no.

A

And I'm, actually in a separate window, looking up other metrics and what the implementation sections look like.

A

So under code changes we have aggregators and parameters and filters that looks like visual is a I mean, but this looks like the old format I.

A

Was just changed four months ago.

A

It's the format by the metric. That's the right format so like this is. This is just an example. So, under implementation it looks like aggregators parameters, filters, visualizations tools, those are all under implementation. That's correct! Okay,.

E

D

We shun the aggregators and parameters are just pulled in this is pulled accordance with the clone after they're, not part of the template, so we can't use headings for them. Oh, there is Bolden. Okay, yeah.

A

I forgot about that. Our filter is the same way. I know.

D

Filters are part of the templates. We clean settings chimera correctly.

A

I'm, just using.

A

Language from another metric for a period of time, so.

A

They have their period period of time, so the start is that create a bullet. Yeah that'll create a book. Okay, all right: okay, cool.

A

I, don't know why I could bill is doing this to me I'm trying to do exactly what you did I.

A

Have to trick because all.

A

That's actually.

B

That's awesome, aggregator.

B

So, just from a time perspective, typically in these meetings about five minutes, okay,.

A

I think we've started the editing, I, don't know if we want to review and discuss what we've done so far. A tool providing the metrics is fairly easy to UM and.

G

Later we can discuss what we have done so far, so they, whatever we are current.

F

G

G

I'm trying you want to start okay, so so far we have been doing good. I just have a comment in the chest line. We how many comments like if we consider that we are considering everything like an aggregation of all the comments, but what happens if we have different categories of classes of comics, for example, one category of common might be addressing something else. Some might be addressing a particular area.

G

Can we keep it track the same kind of things that we do with what counts in a MapReduce context where we might say, okay, this category of Communists, addressing these, we count all enormous bodies we go to the next category account only commas are addressing, so we have to get everything I keep the sub counts.

G

Can we see it that way and.

F

I think that is in the filters like review by tags like which we have a tagging system in the guitar, like you, favor tagging, in value for that you are, if you get all five different tags and then go to another tag,.

G

A

The there's no other, except for the use of tags, at least on github, when I'm doing the code review I, don't have an option to give it a category I'm just making comments.

A

Okay, take her the only way I have to put it in any kind of a category explicitly.

F

Now other option is like we were headed by a comment like okay. How many comments are from one particular reviewer, which, which is also a pre, that in there.

A

It's them. Yeah I tried to mirror the just for people's reference. The the structure, the order of things I was using to mirror was the code changes metric, so I tried to put the aggregators parameters and filters in a similar order.

A

They're not they're, not all the same, but the aggregators and parameters are the same.

A

But the filters there's a different like review or outcome recommendation is not included, but I think ordinary. The actors groups of actors are common tags applies in this case and then distinct. A distinct filter for this is the outcome. Recommendation.

A

And there there is an option to do a to make comments on so code review comments like you, don't have to actually call it a code. You can make comments on a on a change without starting a review, but I I think I still would call that a code review, even if the person doing it didn't they're making some kind of comment on the code. So I would agree.

D

It could be like asking a clarifying question, which would then lead to approval or denial, or something like that.

G

See how do you know if the question.

D

E

G

Actionable I don't think we should really call that it could review, because code really should be an interactive process like interchanging of two person like the reverti, the LED city is so if there is no action. That is that follows that review or the comments yeah.

I

G

A

No action should be a category.

A

I mean I think these are the three main ones approve it no action and make changes that.

A

Makes it strengthen- and we are at our 10-minute mark- that met $20 I'm, just gonna come on and say that yeah, so so I think I think the tools stuff we can just pick up next time and the data collection strategies which are optional but I, think I think we would just review our work. We put this on the agenda for the next take into that time and.

A

That that includes first meeting I think.