►
From YouTube: CHAOSS Metrics Models Working Group 2/1/22
Description
Links to minutes from this meeting are on https://chaoss.community/participate.
A
A
A
C
A
um
I
just
wanted
to
be
clear
from
folks
we
had
kind
of
talked
about
this.
I
don't
know
if
it
made
it
into
the
metrics
model
call
two
weeks
ago,
but
as
the
metrics
model
team
has
and
they're
building
models,
and
they
have
metrics
that
they
would
like
to
develop
that
aren't
necessarily
part
of
a
model
and
haven't
been
developed
or
they.
A
A
Metric
that
we're
thinking
about
it
would
be
helpful
in
that
issue.
If
you
can
give
some
guidance
like
what
the
question
is,
maybe
what
the
the
overview
is
and
the
objectives
you
know
the
description
and
the
objectives
of
what
you
kind
of
hope
this
this
might
be,
um
but
it's
not
on
the
the
the
other
working
groups,
like
evolution,
risk
dei
to
to
really
track.
What's
going
on
in
this
group,
they
can
you
see
what
I'm
saying
it's
not
a
pull
from
those
groups
is
really
a.
A
A
A
A
This
is
the
original
document
just
because
I
did
mess
around
a
little
bit
with
some
of
the
text
to
get
it
to
fit
with
the
metrics
model,
template
a
little
bit
better,
and
so,
if
you
feel
like,
I
lost
something
in
in
getting
it
from
this
big
document
into
the
respective
smaller
documents.
Here's
the
big
document
as
well-
and
we
can
always
go
back
to
that-
and
the
other
thing
is
this-
this
larger
document.
A
A
A
But
there
were
some
comments
in
here
that
were
about
safety,
so
I
tried
to
kind
of
work
through
some
of
this
text,
which
is
no
longer
in
any
metric
model,
because
we
don't
really
have
a
metric
model
called
sustainability.
The
focus
area
is
called
sustainability,
um
and
so
I
used
some
of
this
text
and
tried
to
work
through
a
little
bit
down
here
to
start
building
out
the,
why
you
should
care
component.
A
um
I
also
went
through
to
the
best
of
my
ability
what
I
think
were
the
metrics
that
were
kind
of
brought
up
and
could
be
useful
in
this
particular
metrics
model
implementation.
I
don't
have
one
references
I
I
thought
a
lot
of
these
comments
were,
like
kind
of
they
were
like
thoughts
that
were
coming
from
the
group,
because
I
was
again
I
wasn't
here
two
weeks
ago,
so
I
was
doing
my
best
to
guess
what
was
going
on,
and
so
I
use
these
as
references.
A
A
Figure
out
why
you
should
care
I'll
put
that
text
form
um
any
of
these
down
here.
Sorry,
anytime,
you
see
a
metric
that
doesn't
have
like
a
corresponding
link
to
a
chaos
metric.
That
means
I
don't
think
we
have
that
metric
or
it's
I'm
not
quite
sure
what
it
is,
and
so
these
would
be
potential
candidates
for
metrics
to
develop,
or
we
just
don't
worry
about
them
in
this
particular
metrics
model.
We
can
always
improve
the
metrics
models
later,
but
sometimes
I
just
don't
think
we
have
everything
that
was
asked
for
implementation,
references
and
contributions.
A
B
A
B
B
A
B
A
A
So
I
just
took
that
big
document
and
I
split
it
into
five:
that's
what
I
did
just
so.
We
can
track
each
one
individually
sure
um
and
then
emma
you
had.
I
was
also
just
saying
I
was
on
burnout
risk.
I
was
also
just
saying
that
I
had
put
an
issue,
and
maybe
you
did
so
I'm
sorry.
If
I
did
a
duplicate
issue
in
the
dei
working
group,
it
was
to
rename
project
burnout
to
maintain
her
wellness.
A
That
was
a
suggestion
that
you
had
and
we'll
bring
that
up
in
the
dei
working
group.
All
right
um
funding,
we're
not
risk
safety
um
funding,
same
same
scenario:
you
get
you
get
the
routine.
At
this
point,
I
kind
of
tried
to
go
through
here
capture
what
I
could
and
then
put
it
into
its
own,
its
own
document
security
risk.
A
I
didn't
do
this
one,
because
I
think
this
is
a
document
from
emma
or
somebody.
It's
my
own
practice,
it's
yours,
okay,
so
somebody
else
owned
this
and
I
didn't
want.
I
didn't
want
to
just
remake
it
for
for
remaking
sake,
so
this
one
was
already
kind
of
its
own
its
own
thing.
So
I
didn't
really
spend
a
lot
of
time
on
this
one
just
because
it
kind
of
looked
like
it
was
it
was
there
um
and
then,
lastly,
minimum
vitality.
There
wasn't
much
there,
but
I
still
made
the
document
anyway.
C
Even
know
actually
yeah,
I
did
want
to
add
one
comment
to
that,
and
that
is
that
um
in
that
in
the
previous
meeting,
the
one
that
that
you
weren't
in
um
different
people
um
took
responsibility
for
different
of
these
sections.
Okay,
and-
um
and
so
we
probably
want
to
talk
about
that-
and
you
know
empower
each
of
them
to
take
ownership.
A
A
A
A
D
A
A
E
C
E
E
D
D
A
Do
you
like
the
idea
of
this
being
wellness
or
the
electric
being
wellness,
the
model
being
okay,
wellness,
which
is
at
the
moment
we
have
two
burnouts.
We
have
project
burnout,
which
is
a
metric
by
itself,
and
we
have
burnout
risk,
which
is
a
metric
model
and
your
your
comment
was
you
kind
of
like
the
idea
of
this
pardon
me
for
being
so.
C
A
A
E
What
what
did
we
call?
How
do
we
define
burnout?
I
know
that
elizabeth
and
I
tried
to
like
define
everything
as
we
went
along
so
that
we
so
at
the
very
top
did
we
like
talk
like
describe
what
burnout
was,
and
the
reason
I
ask
is
because
the
mental
wellness
or
whatever
we
want
to
call
it,
was
a
component
of
the
metrics
model,
but
it
also
included
things
like
people
have
there's
too
many
issues
and
pull
requests
to
ever
manage,
based
on
like
a
calculation
of
the
number
of
maintainers.
E
So
um
I
don't
know
if,
if
it's
like,
I
don't
want
to
like
turn
too
much
on
words,
but
it's
burn
out
the
wrong
bucket
for
that
and
then
what?
If?
If
so,
then?
What
is
that
called,
which
is
basically
like
the
exhaustion
of
things
right,
the
exhaustion
of
a
person,
the
exhaustion
of
the
ability
to
respond
um
the
um
yeah?
So
what
is
the
right
word
then?.
A
E
E
D
E
So
I
wonder
if
I
feel
like
we
need
to
step
back
a
little
bit
and
I
I
don't
know
because
elizabeth
and
I
walked
this,
I
don't
know
elizabeth.
Would
it
make
sense
for
us
just
to
talk
through
our
thought
process
on
this
and
then
get
into
the
appropriateness
of
things
and
like?
I
feel
like
we're
diving
a
little
soon
into
the
details.
D
Yeah,
I
was
actually
I
was
going
to
make
a
comment
a
little
bit
earlier,
that
it
that
it
feels
like
we're
we're
trying
to
do
too
much
right
now,
and
it
might
be
helpful
if
we
just
if
we
just
stepped
back
and
maybe
grabbed
one
metric
model,
that
it
makes
sense
to
work
on
or
two
or
three.
Maybe
because
there's
multiple
people
here
that
it
makes
sense
to
work
on
and
just
kind
of
focus
on
those.
D
E
B
E
A
B
B
Yeah,
so
we
in
talking
about
why
you
should
care
and
reviewing
the
list
like
it
there
are.
There
are
some
some
crossovers
between
the
burnout
metric
that
does
have
some
other
components
in
it
and
the
metrics
model,
so
we
were
kind
of
even
struggling
a
little
bit
to
define
it
clearly,
if
that
makes
sense,
would
you
agree
emma
burnout
clearly
yeah
yeah,
because
then
that's
when
we
were
like
well,
maybe
that
metric
this
metric
should
be
called.
B
E
Yeah
yeah,
I
think
that
we
thought
the
burnout
was
the
top
level
and
then,
like
wellness,
falls
in
there
and
like
if
you
scroll
up
or
I
don't
know
or
the
doc.
Whichever
makes
sense,
then
that's
where
we
started
to
build
it
out
and
yeah.
So
the
things
that
we
thought
would
cat
be
categorized
under
burnout,
so
the
wellness
and
then
we
started
to
describe
them
here
too.
We
of
course
ran
out
of
time,
because
this
is
super
hard
um
and
then
yeah
the
rest
of
the
things
there.
E
B
Because
the
metrics
model,
I
think
the
key
word
there-
is
risk
the
risk
of
burnout
like
what's
what's
the
probability
that
your
maintainers
are
going
to
burn
out
are
going
to
leave
are
going
to
be
stressed
out
like
so
um
that
part
to
me
was
kind
of
the
key
is
that's.
What
we're
measuring
is
the
level
of
risk
and
on
all
of
these
components,
so
the
the
project
burnout
was
only
one
little
piece
of
that.
B
B
C
For
example,
I
needed
to
upgrade
a
package
and
the
maintainer
didn't
want
to
support
any
versions
of
node
that
were
odd
numbers
and
then
wrote
some
code
to
throw
an
error
if
there
was
ever
a
version
that
used
odd
numbered
versions
of
node.
It
was
just
kind
of
crazy
and,
like
I
needed
to
kind
of
know
about
that
person,
and
so
I
see
this
model
as
being
kind
of
about
the
risk
from
the
people,
uh
and
I
think
it's
a
really
valuable
model.
In
that
sense,.
B
Yeah,
I
will
also
say
that
you
know
we.
We
were
looking
at
um
usage
and
project
popularity.
You
know
because
the
height
like
the
more
high
profile
a
project
is
then
the
more
attention
it's
getting
more
people
are
depending
on
it.
The
more
people
are
are
looking
at
it
and
making
judgments
and
conversations
about
it,
and
so
like
that.
All
of
that
stuff
doesn't
reflect
in
the
project
burnout
metric
so
but
it
can
add
to
someone
getting
burned
out.
If
that
makes
sense,.
E
Security
right
like
the
more
people
and
if
you
look
at
the
criticality
stuff
so-
um
and
I
also
wonder
if
like
when
we're
setting
goals
for
this
work,
if
it
makes
sense
to
like
we're
our
kevin
talked
about
having
like
one
metrics
or
two
metric
models.
We
work
on,
maybe
there's
also
within
each
of
those
only
two
or
three
atomic
metrics.
We
work
through
just
so
we're
just
trying
to
get
to
some
sort
of
mvp.
We
can
still
add
things,
but
I
don't
anyways,
I'm
just
trying
to
think
of
like
how
to
get
to
something.
A
To
that
second
point,
emma
about
starting
with
fewer
metrics,
I
would
say
one
of
the
things
that
we'll
look
at
here
shortly,
just
with
respect
to
a
metrics
model
release
is
the
dei
event
badging
metric
model.
I
mean
that
metric
model
is
it's
not
that
many
metrics
and
it's
not
the
full.
It's
not
everything
that
you
could
look
at
within
an
event.
You
know
what
I
mean
and
the
the
program
itself
is
also
not
everything
that
you
could
look
at
in
an
event.
But
it's
a
start.
A
D
To
start
so,
I
uh
I
agree
with
what
you
just
said:
matt,
and
I
I
also
agree
with
with
what
you
were
saying
emma.
I
think,
uh
simplifying
simplifying
our
process
and
scope.
I
think
is
going
to
be
very
helpful
for
us
right
now
and
it
can
become
more
complicated
later,
but
trying
to
do
too
much
right
now
is
going
to
over
complicate
the
process
for
us.
So
I
think
we
kind
of
need
to.
D
C
E
I
liked
those
two
uh
at
least
because
I
felt
like
we
could
definitely
get
to
a
calculation
or
that
we'd
have
like
a
pretty
strong
hypothesis
about
what
that
would
look
like
and
be
able
to
calculate.
I
think
it's
harder
to
do
the
wellness
one,
but
if
we
only
have
one
that's
hard
and
two
that
are
something
like
that.
That's.
A
B
I
think
something
else
too
that
um
emma
and
I
kind
of
struggled
with
a
little
is
where,
where
in
this
model
development
is
there
room
for
mathematical
uh
like
ratios,
and
things
like
that
that
take
a
couple
of
metrics
like
we
were
thinking
in?
In
particular,
we
were
thinking
of
like
the
level
of
activity
versus
the
you
know.
The
the
number
of
maintainers
like
is
that
uh
is
that
how
do
we?
How
do
we
communicate
that
that
that
ratio
would
be
what
we're
looking
at?
Not
maybe
the
individual
metrics,
but
like
those
two
things
together.
D
Yeah
I
get
what
you're
saying.
I
don't
think
we
want
to
give
them
a
specific
ratio.
I
don't
think
we
want
to
define
that.
I
think
it's,
it's
really
just
uh
a
matter
of
discussing
that.
We
should
look
at
it
as
a
ratio
and
you
can
you
can
choose
what
the
ratio
is
when
you
use
when,
when
you're
examining
it
in
your
context,.
C
F
I'm
saying
even
ratio,
or
even
the
weightage
of
each
metric
is
context
dependent,
so
maybe
we
can
have
a
disclaimer
or
something
that
a
user
can
choose
the
different
ratios
or
within
that
metric
or
weightage
for
each
metric
and
apply
to
a
specific
context.
But
these
are
the
pointers
as
a
things
to
look
or
think
through
when
they
are
evaluating
a
certain
scenario,
which
is
like
a
burnout.
That's.
F
E
E
What
are
we
trying
to
achieve
because
I,
when
I
walked
someone
through
some
of
this
stuff
earlier
this
week,
they
were
all
especially
around
safety
concerned
about
gamification
and
there's
like
it
was
really
hard
and
how
you
know
like,
and
I
had
to
back
them
up
a
little
bit
to
say,
like
you
know,
we're
not
like
you
know,
it's
not
set
up
to
say
exactly
what
you
know.
Inclusion
or
safety
looks
like,
but
here's
some
factors
and
here's
based
on
those
factors.
E
What
um
looks
anyway
so
um
losing
exactly.
I
think
you
get
the
idea.
That
was
a
challenge
that
I
wasn't
quite
prepared
for.
um
But
that
said,
I
think
that
um
I
I
know
that,
like
projects
and
maintainers
are
asking
like
what
is
a
good
number,
you
know
how
do
I
know
that
I
have
enough
maintainers
set
up
or
you
know
I
need
it
comes
into
funding
too.
This
is
where
the
matter,
but
so
I
think,
there's
some
opinion
too,
and
I
don't
know
what
the
the
balance
is
there,
but
I.
A
A
We
can
say
you
can
look
at
these
things,
but
you
have
to
you
as
a
project
maintainer
or
somebody
who
cares
about
the
project.
You
have
to
think
about
what
those
thresholds
are
for
you
or
look
at
a
comparative
project
that
you
might
aspire
to
be,
but
we
can't
I
mean
years
ago
we
talked
about
doing
like
red,
yellow,
green
kind
of
thing
for
the
metrics.
C
C
E
E
A
um
I
mean
like
at
a
place
like
microsoft,
you
have
tens
of
thousands
hundreds
of
thousands
of
projects
that
you
care
about,
like
how
you
couldn't
give
a
green
like
across
all
of
our
projects.
This
is
what
constitutes
good
like
that.
Just
would
be
so
difficult,
so
so
difficult,
um
okay,
so
it
um
all
right.
Can
we
um
move
to
a
different
part
of
the
agenda?
A
A
You
know
as
these
these
minimum
viable
products
that
could
be
put
in
front
of
everybody
and
then
to
kevin's
point.
We
put
them
in
front
of
people
to
help
them
locate
and
think
about
this
thing.
Whatever
this
thing
might
be,
in
this
case,
burnout
risk
or
something
if
we
have
to
play
with
language,
whether
that
language
is
in
a
working
group
or
that
language
is
here
in
the
metrics
model,
that's
fine!
We
can
play
with
that
language,
so
we
can.
A
C
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
A
D
D
I
don't
believe
that
these
these
models
fit
with
kind
of
that
that
metrics
definition
or
metric
standards.
These
are
this-
is
more
about
providing
utility
and
guidance
for
for
using
some
of
the
metrics.
So
I
would
propose
that,
rather
than
releasing
these
as
part
of
our
metrics
releases,
maybe
we
released
them
in
a
different
way.
Perhaps
we
released
them
as
a
blog
article,
uh
where
we
released
the
where
we
released
the
model,
and
perhaps
we
tell
a
story
that
goes
along
with
the
model,
perhaps
kind
of
using
the
model
in
context.
D
E
I
was
just
gonna
say
that
I
liked
the
idea
of
the
storytelling
um
and
just
to
sort
of
go
way
back
to
like
the
the
toolkit
proposal
where
they're
like
this
is.
This
is
what
you
will
achieve
by
doing
this
thing.
This
is
how
long
it
will
take
you.
These
are
the
types
of
things
you
will
learn
kind
of
story,
um
and
that
could
be
its
own
format
for
metrics
models.
E
C
B
So
I
I
kind
of
like
the
tool
kit,
that's
just
my
feeling,
because
I
really
like
the
time
piece
of
it,
because
I
feel
like
that's
the
thing
that
keeps,
and
maybe,
if
we
have
like
a
you
know,
I
don't
know
a
difficulty
level
or
something
like
that
like
I
want
something
easy
yeah,
quick
at
the
beginning
and
then
then
I
can
dig
deeper
and
see
if
I
have
more
time
and
get
more
context.
But
I
think
that
that
easy
and
quick
is
what's
going
to
bring
people
in
to
actually
use
these.
A
D
D
D
A
F
Yeah,
what
I
was
thinking
was
like
releasing
the
model
the
way
we
are
releasing
the
metric.
Have
the
community
review
it
at
this
time?
Same
time
we
create
a
blog
for
the
marketing
purpose
like
spreading
out
the
word
which
we
can
put
it
to
the
open
source:
dot
org
as
a
like
blog
or
even
our
own
kiosk
website,
as
a
blog
and
have
both
the
things
like
going
through
the
community
process,
so
that
we
share
it
with
the
entire
community
and
have
a
blog
to
tell
a
story
to
the
broader
id
audience.
B
um
Can
I
make
a
suggestion
I
I
would
be
happy
to
take
the
dei
badging
metrics
model
that
you've
put
together
there
matt
and
try
to
make
a
toolkit
out
of
it.
Just
a
first
draft
first
pass:
here's
what
something
might
look
like
and
bring
it
to
the
group,
and
we
can
look
at
it
and
see
if
it's
something
that
like
speaks
to
us.
What
do
you
guys
think
about
that.
A
B
D
D
D
It
seems
like
we're
over
complicating
this
and
I-
and
I
don't
know
that
these
models
would
have
the
same
uh
uh
staying
power
as
the
a
metric
would
right.
So,
the
with
some
of
these
models,
we're
kind
of
playing
with
different
metrics
and
we're
only
looking
at
a
few
we're
not
looking
at
uh
we're
looking
at
similar
things
in
different
ways
it.
A
Okay,
well,
we
are
at
the
end
of
time,
so
take
kevin's
comments
and
take
lucas's
comments
and
emma's
comments
and
elizabeth's
comments
and
vanad's
comments,
and
my
comments
and
everybody's
comments.
That's
on
this
call
and
think
about
them
over
the
course
of
the
next
two
weeks
and
the
general.
The
general
thing
to
think
about
is
how
do
we
present
these
and
how
do
we
release
them
like
what?
What
do
you
envision
that
to
be,
and
with
that?
We
will
see
you
in
two
weeks:
sound
good
everybody.