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From YouTube: CHAOSS.Value.July.16.2020
Description
CHAOSS.Value.July.16.2020
A
All
right
there
you
go.
Everyone
welcome
to
the
value
working
group.
We
are
gonna,
take
a
look
at
feedback
on
things
that
are
currently
in
review
for
this
release
cycle
and
then
look
at
a
couple
new
metrics
that
were
migrated
into
issues
because
they
need
further
refinement.
Keurig
and
I
did
a
deep
dive
in
that
a
couple
weeks
ago
and
yeah
Sean
added
something
on
like
talking
through
social
value,
which
would
be
wonderful,
lesser
getting
some
metric
story,
any
other
agenda
items
we
should
get
in
there
while
we're
thinking
I,
don't
know
yeah.
A
B
A
A
Yeah,
my
totally
biased
comment
is
that
this
is
awesome,
but
just
to
refresh
our
memory,
we
made
a
really
big
transition
from
previous
structure
she's,
trying
to
redefine
how
we
talk
about
value
and
Matt.
She
brought
us
through
a
great
process
that
landed
on
East
4,
so
just
take
a
moment
to
refresh
her
memory
and
the
focus
area
and
the
goal
associated
with
it
and
bring
up
give
comments.
A
A
B
A
C
A
A
A
D
A
A
Yeah
I
guess
I'm
kind
of
cruising
to
be
like
the
differentiation
between
identify
and
understand.
Yeah
I
think
it
were
ultimately
pointing
to
metrics
identify
seems
to
uncommon
at
that.
I
mean
I'm
a
little
curious
as
to
how
those
two
got
out
of
sync,
but
anyway
it
doesn't
matter.
You
know
this
one's
got
me
invasive
from
the
spreadsheet
work.
A
E
A
quick
question:
what
is
it
make
sense,
or
does
it
even
matter
if
we
should
say
identified
the
degree
to
which
or
something
like
that,
cuz
the
way
it's
red?
It's
like
either
a
yes/no
thing
to
me
personally,
so
I
don't
know.
If
that's,
if
it's
helpful
to
to
kind
of
qualify
that
a
little
bit
like
either
it
is
attentive
or
it
isn't,
you
know,
or
it
is
valuable,
it
isn't
and
I
think
that
that's
not
like
it
can't
be
a
yes-or-no
thing.
It's.
It
would
be
a
degree
yeah.
D
A
Implying
it
from
a
spectrum
continuum
approach
to
using
all
of
these
metrics,
especially
if
there's
any
makes
you
come
image.
The
relative
value,
when
appropriate,
like
I,
think
that
that's
what
we're
living
in
in
value
group,
especially
it's
think
when
I
value
could
be
wildly
different
and
distinct
from
what
you
value.
E
So
you
know,
like
a
project
that
was
made
for
like
Code,
for
America,
for
instance,
is,
is
like
that's
a
solid
line.
Yes,
this
is
you're
pretty
high
level
of
social
good,
whereas
any
dependencies
that
they're
they're,
relying
on
any
software
dependencies
that
they're
relying
on
would
be
more
of
a
dotted
line,
so
it
it.
It
does
provide
social
good
in
that
way,
but
not
as
clearly
as
some
others.
So
I
think
that
maybe
just
yeah
allowing
for
that
kind
of
gray
area
is
important.
E
E
A
A
A
C
B
Think
it
requires
a
relationship
to
a
project
like
you
unless,
unless
an
organization's
commute
contributing
to
a
community,
there's
nothing
inside
the
organization
that
is
generating
communal
value,
that
we
would
measure
I,
think
we
don't
have
to
discuss
this
or
figure
it
out
now,
I'm,
just
trying
to
sort
out
the
relationship
between
all
these
things.
I
appreciate
that
that's
and
as.
A
B
A
C
E
A
Organization
so
yeah,
the
the
thing
that's
interesting
about
the
organization
is
like
I,
think
of
an
organization
as
it
like.
If
it
doesn't
I,
don't
follow
the
American
conceptualization
that
it's
a
person
like
I,
think
it's
made
up
of
people.
So
it's
like
you
have
to
put
a
bunch
of
the
little
daunted
people
in
both
those
organizations
or
in
the
organization
yeah.
A
A
Things
right
and
in
that
sense,
I
think
the
individuals
in
an
organization
collectively
could
find
value
in
something
like,
even
if
they're
not
contributing
to
it.
For
instance,
like
there
is
a
project
called
rook
in
the
kubernetes
community
that
gives
access
to
storage
vendors
to
have
persistent
storage
inside
kubernetes
like
you
didn't
have
to
contribute
to
it.
You
have
that
increased
value
of
your
storage
devices,
if
they're.
If
somebody
broke
the
compatibility
between
those
things,
I
think
that's
like
an
interesting
way
of
saying.
A
B
Yeah
I
don't
need
to
spend
much
time
on
this
study,
I'll,
develop
it
a
little
bit
further
and
share
it
out,
but
I
think
Joe.
The
piece
that
I
think
is
important
is
that
when
it
comes
to
the
you
know
a
value
to
humanity
or
the
social
value.
The
organization,
the
individual
and
the
project
can
all
exist
without
having
any
connection
to
social
value.
Like
social
value
is
a
choice
that
a
project
makes
within
itself.
B
A
Right
so
like
there's
always
that
observer
in
this,
and
we,
the
observer,
tends
to
add
more
value
if,
if
there
is
social
value
in
the
mission
which
might
lead
us
towards
a
meaningful
metric
for
social
value,
that
it's
like,
the
mission
of
the
project
is
aligned
to
social
outcomes
right
but
like
I,
still
think
that
it's
distinct
from
like
is
it
adding?
Is
there
value
being
added
to
a
social
good
by
the
existence
of
this
thing?
Well,.
B
A
B
A
Formally,
it
is,
it
is
best
if
it's
representative
of
people
doing
social
work,
social
value,
work,
so
I
think
as
much
as
all
of
us
care
about
that.
I
can't
speak
for
all
of
you,
but
I
know
I'm,
not
the
right
person
to
be
saying
like
hey.
This
is
how
social
value
activism
works
in
the
open-source
community.
I've,
never
done
that.
So
I
think.
E
Yeah
and
to
your
point,
I
think
we
can,
like
maybe
there's
just
a
low
right
here,
where
some
projects
are
explicitly
designed
for
that.
You
know
like
refuge.
Restrooms
is
an
open
source
project
that
lists
restrooms
that
are
gender
neutral.
So
amazing,
you
know
what
so
like
that
that
is
a
clear
picture
of
a
social
good
open
source
for
social
good.
E
You
know
like
that's,
that's
the
whole
point
of
it,
and
so
maybe
there's
like
a
low-hanging
fruit
there,
where
we
can
just
say,
is
the
mission
of
the
project
explicitly
around
social
good
and
again
there
will
be
some
great
areas,
but
if
it's
like
some
are
gonna
be
clearer
than
others,
I
think
so,
maybe
that's
just
a
metric.
We
could
go
on
and
I.
Don't
know
how
you
capture
that
automatically
or
program,
but
I
mean.
E
B
I
mean
my
first
foray
into
open
source
software
work
was
actually
a
humanitarian,
free
and
open
source
software
project,
where
we
had
college
students
working
on
open
source
projects
that
were
explicitly
designed
to
be
a
social
good,
and
there
is
a
there's,
a
difference
in
the
so
I
think.
There's
intentional
and
unintentional
social
good,
and
at
some
point
we
may
want
to
talk
about
that
distinction.
Sure
what
the
metrics
for
those
things.
It's
not
that
neither
is
one
is
better
than
the
other,
but
how
we
measure
them
might
be
different.
Yeah.
D
A
Obviously
yeah
so
like
the
I.
Don't
do
this
to
be
a
doubles,
advocate
I,
don't
think
devil's
advocacy
is
helpful,
but
I
am
reading
a
lot
about
political
morality
and
how
we
aren't
all
frames
to
see
it
identically.
So
you
know
I
could
be
working
on
that
site
and
say
that,
like
that
is
a
moral
good,
because
it's
giving
people
freedom
and
so
like
we.
A
D
But
I
think
our
goal
is
like
to
have
some
matrix
wherever
you
can
major
some
social
value,
it's
up
to
the
user
and
the
perception
in
the
background
to
decide
like
we
are
there
to
just
develop
tools
or
help
them
to
gauge
that
not
to
decide
okay.
This
is
socially
good,
or
this
is
socially
wrong.
We
have
just
said
like
focusing
to
develop
tools
to
help
people
in
their
situation
or
in
their
context,
to
gauge
whether
it's
morally
good
or
not,.
A
B
A
E
A
B
A
A
B
Right,
it
was
deliberate,
yeah
and
I'm,
just
I
guess
what
I
would
say
is
if
you
decide
to
create
an
open-source
project.
Communal
organizational
and
individual
value
can
be
measured
and
kind
of.
Are
there
they're
they?
The
project
doesn't
exist
without
those
things
the
project
projects
can't
exist
with
only
I
would
say,
incidental
social
value
like
there's,
there's
projects
that
exist
explicitly
for
social
value.
A
lot
of
projects,
incidentally,
create
social
value,
but
social
value
isn't
always
necessarily
a
component
in
an
open-source
project.
B
A
D
A
A
great
point
to
bring
up
I
think
it
like
we're,
starting
with
the
most
obvious
thing
to
us,
is
our
organizations
that
are
intentionally
trying
to
bring
about
better
outcomes
for
people.
It's
not
like,
oh
well,
react.
Gs
is
used
in
this
project
that
it's
doing
something
really
good
there
for
real
reaction.
Yes,
and
therefore
Facebook
itself
are
all
doing
really
good
things
for
the
world,
like
the
the
connective
tissue
between
like
the
outcome
of
this
project
and
the
outcome
of
the
intention,
we
do
measure
it
it's
very
important
to
us
as
people
but
yeah.
A
So
this
is,
it's
gonna,
be
a
tricky
one
and
I.
Think
taking
a
case
by
case
will
be
good.
Yeah
it'll
be
just
as
tricky
as
the
rest
of
value
group,
though,
in
my
opinion,
like
I,
think
we're
all
four
of
these
are
how
the
hell,
what
the
hell
kind
of
questions
pretty
rapidly
yeah
I
I,
had
also
gone
to
the
Ford
Foundation,
just
kind
of
slowly
kind
of
moving
through
their
site,
and
they
have
ways
that
they
talk
about
projects
and
I.
Just
I
pulled
some
of
their
text
about.
A
Do
you
see
that,
at
the
bottom
of
page,
one
disrupting
systems
to
advance
social
justice
systems
that
are
disruptive,
strengthening
the
social
justice
sector,
driving
social
justice
and
building
movements
across
the
globe,
so
I
mean?
Maybe
when
we
think
of
and
when
we
think
about
social
justice,
we
can
rely
on
some
of
the
definitions
that
other
organizations
that
are
heavily
steeped
in
this
space
have
already
helped
frame.
C
A
C
B
Yeah,
there's
there's
opportunity
from
the
open
source
community
to
explicitly
work
to
weave
social
justice
and
social
good
into
itself,
because
kids
today
are
highly
motivated
by
the
social
effect
that
the
work
that
they
do.
Has
they
don't?
You
know
they
want
to
make
money,
but
a
lot
of
my
students
really
care
about
having
a
social
impact.
It's
very
different
than
the
students
I
had
10-15
years
ago,
social
impact,
social
justice,
social
good.
B
A
B
A
B
E
A
Of
their
goals,
yeah,
so
around
organizational
value
in
particular
like
this
is.
This
is
like
what
motivated
me
to
be
more
active
in
chaos
like
I,
really
am
fascinated
by
the
different
means
by
which
companies
at
a
monetary
value
to
our
work,
so
the
word
monetary.
It
should
be
everywhere
in
relation
to
the
goal
there.
Oh
it's
not
in.
Why
is
it
not
there
wait?
No,
it
is
I'm
looking
at
individual,
not
you.
If.
A
A
Eliciting
social
value
like
how
do
we
make
sure
that
say,
an
organization
like
I'll
stick
with
the
Foreign
Foundation,
if
they're
trying
to
understand
a
project
social
value
so
that
they
can
make
funding
decisions
like?
How
do
we
make
sure
that
the
Ford
Foundation
can
make
that
determination?
Not
just
the
project
saying
we
decree
ourselves
as
socially
valuable.
E
Get
into
like
those
dotted
lines
of
like
well,
anything
could
be
considered
socially
valuable
to
someone
somewhere.
You
know
so
yeah
I
totally
agree
Matt.
That's
a
really!
It's
a
really
hard
question
to
answer.
I
think
if
it
was
easy,
it
would
have
been
answered
already.
So
I
think
that
yeah
you're
absolutely
right.
It's
a
hard.
It's
a
hard
thing
to
say,
which
is
maybe
where
the
degree
to
which
that
comes
in
but
I
don't.
A
Really
like
that
point,
though,
it's
like
remembering
that
the
person
we're
thinking
of
as
the
observer
as
the
measure
of
these
metrics
they're
external
to
the
projects
so
that
they
can
have
a
reasonable
assessment
of
whether
something
is
socially
valuable
or
monetarily
valuable
to
them.
It's
not
about
the
project
being
able
to
game
it
and,
like
say
hey
see,
we
will
make
you
a
ton
of
money
and
yeah
change.
Democracy
yeah!
A
If
you
want
that
kotas
go
to
Silicon
Valley
for
a
little
bit
play
that
game
with
startups
and
like
you,
don't
need
to
do
that.
We
don't
need
to
get
into
that.
But
dude
do
we
explicitly
say
in
any
word,
because
that
really
just
clicked
for
me,
though,
like
the
observer
is
in
this
external,
so
the
project,
not
internal
I,
think
maybe
we
would
capture
that
in
the
metric
itself.
Okay,
be
in
the
description
and
the
objectives.
A
A
Respect
to
social
value,
you
know
when,
when
we
were
doing
the
DNI
stuff-
and
we
brought
folks
in
like
Emma
ruin
it
just
like
open
my
eyes
as
to
what
DNI
is
about,
and
so
we
could
have
talked
about
it
forever
and
then
we
could
have
talked
about
it
for
like
five
years
and
then
Emma
would
have
shown
up
and
I
would
have
been
like.
Oh
everything
we
talked
about
was
wrong,
so
we
need
to.
A
We
might
want
to
think
about
people
who
do
this
for
a
living,
because
they
will
say
things
and
that's
brilliant
yeah.
That's
that's
a
that's
a
great
point!
Yeah!
There's
nothing
that
like
gets
you
past
philosophical
contenders,
like
somebody
who
actually
does
the
work
they've
been
thinking
about
it
for
years
and
years
and
years
that
they've
they've
gone
through
the
trials
and
tribulations
yeah
how
to
think
about
it,
it
would
cut
a
lot
of
corners
for
us
in
a
positive
way
good.
A
A
A
A
I,
don't
want
us
to
like
take
the
time
to
to
pick
at
it
right
now
or
like
have
strong
opinions
on
the
exact
implementation,
but
I
did
want
to
ask
like
what
are
reasonably
next
steps
for
people,
because
whatever
it
is,
I
really
want
many
of
there
to
be
able
to
talk
through
it,
because
it
is
definitely
her
project
and
something
she
holds
quite
close
and
I
want
to
respect
that
puts
a
lot
of
expertise
in
this
I.
Don't
fully
understand.
A
E
So
I
can
say
that
we
are
gonna
pilot
that
metric
with
the
chaos
project
itself.
Okay,
so
we're
gonna
do
kind
of
a
self
analysis
of
it
and
how
it's
going,
and
things
like
that,
so
I
can
speak
to
that
and
I
am
in
the
process
of
setting
up
a
meeting
with
Dylan
and
venía
on
that
so
yeah
we're
gonna
be
like
a
pilot.
So
if
there
are
holes
in
it
will
will
hopefully
find
them.
B
B
In
other
words,
if
this
scale
of
complexity
is
introduced
into
a
lot
of
metrics
I,
think
KS
as
a
project
can
could
become
more
difficult
for
newcomers
to
digests,
because
you
hit
this
metric
and
it's
so
different
than
the
others
that
that
might
not
be
a
bad
thing.
This
may
be
an
example
of
a
different
type
of
metric,
but
I
think
I
think
just
in
some
way.
B
We
have
to
point
out
that
there
are,
there
are
I,
have
to
go
through
it
and
read
it,
but
ballpark,
15
or
16
different,
specific
things
that
could
be
in
the
ordinary
KS
way
of
doing
things.
Discrete
metrics
and
it's
I,
don't
know
if
it's
good
or
bad
that
we've
sort
of
simplified
and
bundled
all
that
into
one
but
I
do
think
it.
It
makes
it
harder
for
someone
to
take
a
look
at
it
and
build
a
tool
that
operationalizes.
B
B
A
I
guess
two
comments:
one
is:
is
Sean
just
in
terms
of
the
deployment
Venu
is
one
of
the
google
Summer
of
Code.
Students
is
deploying
this
metric,
yeah,
Ingram
or
lab,
so
we'll
see
how
they
will
see
how
that
work
goes.
So
that's
been
his
task.
I,
don't
I,
don't
know
how
that
I
don't
know
how
to
respond
to
your
comment.
Other
it
is
being
worked
on.
I
will
say
that
I
I
do
agree
with
Sean.
This
is
the
way
that
chaos
metrics
have
kind
of
have
kind
of
come
to
be.
A
Are
these
very
discrete
or
granular
metrics
yeah?
And
that's?
So
if
you
take
a
look
at
any
of
the
working
groups,
they
are
they're
like
age
of
issue,
contributor
type.
There
they're
kind
of
these
discrete
things,
and
this
one
is
certainly
a
very
composite'
metric
that
has
many
discrete
metric.
So
at
some
point
we
may
or
may
not
need
to
think
about
as
a
project
as
a
whole,
how
we
have
discrete
metrics
on
one
hand
and
then,
for
example,
the
work
that
sean
has
been
doing
with
Zephyr.
A
A
B
It
and
having
those
discrete
metrics
makes
it
easier
for
people
to
understand
when
I
put
in
five
or
seven
five
to
seven
metrics,
together
in
a
community
report
for
one
part
of
a
community
report,
each
of
the
definitions
of
the
things
that
they're
looking
at
on
that
graph
are
clearly
defined,
and
it
you
you
that's
not
done
in
the
social
currency
metric.
There's,
there's
a
lot
of
allusions
to
other
things,
so
it
yeah
we're
moving
I.
Think
we're
moving
in
the
direction
of
what
is
useful
is
not
individual,
discrete
metrics
treated
in
isolation.
B
The
questions
people
have
are
more
complex.
Where
we
started
was
everybody's
arguing
about
what
a
commit
was
right
right.
This
might
lead
part
of
the
natural
evolution.
It's
happening
in
the
community
reports
that
we're
building
what's
happening
with
this
metric,
and
it's
just
it's
a
discussion.
They
have
so
that
we
go
forward
with
some
purpose.
Mm-Hmm.
D
C
B
A
C
A
A
All
it's
just
words:
they
don't
matter.
It's
just
words.
Don't
care,
do
you
think?
But
it's
just
worried.
So
that's
not
mean
no,
then,
on
great
great
point
on
yeah
trying
to
if
we
can
map
between
those
two
states
like
I,
also
like
really
like
what
you're
saying
Sean,
that
it's
such
a
natural
evolution
that
like
we're
getting
to
the
point
where
people
want
playbooks
and
like
completeness
not
to
be
handed
like
a
ton
of
Legos
and
say,
here's
your
castle
and
and
I
think
we're
almost
ready
to
give
them
that
oh
you're,
a
view.
A
Great
metaphor:
cool
art,
we'll
square,
the
top
of
our
time
to
leave
some
space
between
meetings
or
whatever
you're
up
to
so.
Thank
you.
Thank
you.
This
was
really
helpful
and
interesting
Sean.
If
you
wouldn't
mind
sending
that
knife
hammer
or
whatever
evolution
of
that
diagram,
he
gets
you
a
bubble.