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From YouTube: CHAOSS Value Working Group 4-8-21
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A
Welcome
everyone
welcome
to
the
april
8th
chaos
valley,
working
meeting,
please
set
yourself
and
tell
us
how
you're
feeling
or
anything
you
want
to
share,
and
then
the
topic
for
today
is
like.
We
have
three
metrics
that
we
started
in
the
last
meeting.
One
was
organizational
influence.
A
I've
posted
the
minutes
in
the
chat
to
steven
since
you
have
joined
now
so
yep.
I
am
adding
myself
thank.
A
A
E
E
How
many,
how
many
of
things
like
these
since
they're
game
students,
the
the
unicef
for
the
the
microsoft
visual
studio
website
version?
You
know
how
these
things
are
actually
open,
but
not
really
open
to
external
contributions.
So.
F
Hello,
could
someone
share
the
document
with
me.
B
B
F
You
share
the
the
main
document
as
well.
B
B
We
really
clean
that
up,
so
the
question
would
be
like:
how
do
we
determine
excuse
me?
How
do
we
determine
organizational
influence
and
maybe
sean
and
steven
steven,
if
your
students
are
doing
this,
I'd,
be
curious
as
to
what
they're
looking
at
and
sean?
I
think
you've
done
this
before
too.
So
if.
D
D
Level
of
contribution
from
those
people,
and
then
we
discussed
briefly
last
time.
E
Dropped
the
assignment
into
the
in
the
chat,
so,
in
addition
to
having
them
run
cauldron,
they
run
the
callaway
coefficient
of
fail
and
they
do
a
lot
of
diving
into
what's
the
rc
channel
and
where
it's
the
source
code
repository.
E
The
callaway
coefficient
of
fail
is
a
is
a
venerable
blog
post
by
by
tom
callaway,
formerly
of
red
hat
now
of
aws.
E
It's
in
part,
tongue-in-cheek,
but
there's
value
in
it
I
mean,
especially
with
students
who
are
just
trying
to
wrap
their
heads
around
what
open
source
is
and
how
open
source
communities,
work
and
stuff
like
that.
E
You
know
it
doesn't
start
and
stop
with
things
like
cauldron.
You
know
we
make
them
really
analyze.
You
know
things
like
includes
who's,
really
running
it
this
semester,
because
we're
using
working
in
public
by
egg
ball.
We're
also
looking
at
you
know
are
these:
are
these
stadiums
or
federations
or
or
clubs
or
toys,
in
terms
of
how
the
the
size
of
audience
versus
size
of
contributors
is?
I
don't
know
how
many
of
you
have
looked
at
that
yet
so.
B
E
Some
of
these
corporate
projects
are
almost
just
in
terms
of
how
many
external
contributions
they
actually
accept,
right
that
almost
all
the
contributions
that
get
merged
are
made
from
the
internal
core
team
and
very
little
gets
made
by
anybody
outside
twitter,
bootstrap.
E
I
mean
it's
similar
projects,
it's
stuff,
like
that's
in
unity
or,
like
I
said,
the
whatever,
whatever
the
official
name
is
for
the
entirely
web-driven
version
of
microsoft.
Studio
visual
studio
is
like
a
lot
of
these
things
that
say:
they're
they're
open
projects,
but
in
fact
the
corporate
core
team
does
most
of
the
work
and
rarely,
if
ever
takes
anything
from
the.
B
F
B
D
D
That's
where
a
lot
of
decisions
seem
to
be
made,
at
least
on
the
larger
lf
projects
that
I've
participated
in
studying
it's
a.
It
really
is
like
a
council
of
council
of
elders,
but
it's
also
a
council
of
organizations
that
have
invested
a
certain
obvious
amount
of
resources.
You
know
that's
not
specified
how
many
usually,
but
it's
clear
which
organizations
are
contributing
a
lot
and
those
those
organizations
usually
get
a
seat
on
the
tsc.
E
Yeah
I'm
getting
involved
with
one:
that's
just
spinning
up
the
3d
engine
game
engine,
one!
That's
just
spinning
up
so
they're
supposed
to
do
a
soft
launch
any
day
now
on
a
formal
launch
in
july,
so
it'll
be
interesting
to
watch
how
that
comes
together
in
terms
of
its
administrative
board,
because
it's
a
lot
of
these
organizations
that
are
going
to
be
participants
in
it.
Like.
E
I
have
been
told
I
mean
this,
is
you
know
I?
I
never
said
this
officially,
but
it
will
be
public
soon
enough
is.
E
This:
is
amazon
moving
their
lumber
yard
engine,
which
is
a
a
a
fork
and
or
a
collaboration
with
rytek
on
their
engine
over
the
years
and
that's
getting
dropped
into
the
foundation?
And
there
are
lots
of
you
know.
So
we've
been
told
that
there
are
actually
people
like
you
know,
folks,
from
unity
and
epic
who
want
in
even
though
they're
competitors
right
so
well
they're
not
open
either.
Well,
I
mean
all
of
these
things
are
like,
so
you
can.
You
can
contribute
the
code
to
the
unreal,
but
you
know
it's:
it's
run
centrally
yeah.
B
E
It's
it's
again,
one
of
these
things
core
of
elders
or
core
of
corporate
masters.
Right
yeah,
you
know
so
it's
they'll
take
stuff
from
outside,
but
they're
driving
the
direction,
whereas
in
theory
once
what's
currently
being
called
open,
3d
engine
for
one
of
a
better,
better
name
right,
that'll
be
steered
by
a
standard,
lf
kind
of
structure.
A
Reading
elizabeth's
comment
on
the
country,
but
it
feels
like
we
really
need
to
have
a
glossary
of
terms
like
in
chaos.
We
have
reached
a
point
where
one
terminology
has
been
used
in
the
different
places
in
a
different
context.
So
maybe
it's
a
good
time
to
start
glossary
of
terms
we
use
in
the
chaos.
B
B
So
sean
there's
an
outstanding
question.
I
think
on
one
of
the
things
that
you
had
said
you
were
just
talking
talking
smoothly
here,
but
on
the
second
one,
contributing
at
a
high
rate.
Elizabeth
had
dropped
that
in
like
what?
What
might
that
mean
to
you?
Is
it
like.
D
D
D
Well,
it's
all
relative,
but
there's.
If
you
look
at
the
commit
records
and
organizational
affiliations,
many
projects,
some
one-to-end
organizations,
are
going
to
look
like
they're
working
hard
on
different
parts
of
this,
and
if
it's
a
3d
engine,
then
it's
a
large
system
and
and
those
there's
going
to
be
like
a
high
it'll,
be
the
reverse
of
a
hockey.
D
Stick
it'll
be
more
like
a
poisson
distribution
where
you'll
have
a
few
at
the
top
and
then
many
many
more
at
the
bottom
or
in
the
case
of
something
like
twitter,
bootstrap
you'll
just
have
the
people.
These
are
the
orgs
that
are
running
it
and
thank
you
for
your
pull
request.
No
thank
you
is
the
typical
response.
So
it's
you
know,
there's
different
ways
that
control
can
be
exerted.
D
More
influence
can
be
exerted
in
a
project
one
one
of
them
is
having
some
mass
that
justifies
to
the
community
that
you
would
have
a
seat
at
tsc
organizationally.
The
other
is
simply
to
have
one
organization
like
twitter
that
controlled
bootstrap
who
their
their
internal
development
team,
kept
a
tight
lid
on
who
made
contributions
and
rarely
allowed.
D
Somebody
who
wasn't
in
that
core
maintainer
group
to
make
a
contribution,
and
then
there
are
more
democratic
kinds
of
approaches
where
influence
can
still
be
a
factor
when
I'm
trying
to
think
of.
E
B
E
B
D
All
right,
I'm
think
I'm
trying
to
think
of
a
statistical
word
to
explain
it.
But,
like
there's
topic.
D
Within
a
with,
I
would
say
within
us,
at
a
rate
within
us
within
one
standard,
deviation
or
less
of
other
high
contributing
organizations.
So
there's
like
a
cut
line,
that's
pretty
obvious
in
a
lot
of
these
projects.
Where
organizations
you
know,
maybe
it's
four,
maybe
it's
one.
Maybe
it's
still
eleven.
D
E
Yeah,
I
guess
I
guess
this
is
a
non-automated
piece
of
analysis,
but
I
mean
a
lot
of
these.
You
know
in
a
lot
of
the
docs
for
a
lot
of
the
projects
it
may
be.
You
know
some
of
them
publish
paths
and
how
you
get
to
go
from
like
contributor
to
maintainer
to
those
kinds
of
things
right.
You
know
and
right.
I
I
don't
think,
there's
anything
near
standard
enough
where
you
could
just
I'm.
E
D
Agree,
I
don't
know
this,
but
I
think
there
could
also
be
cases
where
organizations
their
level
within
the
lf
in
terms
of
how
much
contribution
they
make
can
play
a
role
towards
those
organizations
being
able
to
say
that
they
would
like
to
be
on
the
tsc
of
these
projects.
E
Well,
I
mean,
I
know
in
the
I
don't
remember
what
it
is
off
the
top
of
my
head,
but
in
the
slide
deck
they
were
passing
around
for
this
open,
3d
engine.
You
know
when
they're
talking
about
the
various
seats
on
the
various
boards.
You
know
yeah,
some
of
them
are,
you
know,
there's
a
there's,
a
certain
pay-to-play
aspect.
Right
right.
You
know,
you
know,
associate
members
don't
get
to
sit
on
these
committees
because
they
haven't
written
a
check
right.
So
there's
that
or
only
20
or
associate
members
or
whatever.
D
D
So
there
are-
maybe,
if
you
wanted
to
say
this
abstractly-
that
you
need
to
understand
the
influence
dynamics
within
a
project,
and
then
you
can
identify
knowing
that
who
the
most
influential
organizations
are-
and
I
think
steven's
right
there
are
very.
There
are
a
lot
of
different
ways
that
decisions
about
membership
on
something
like
a
tsc
or
a
maintainer
list
is
determined.
D
I
So
wait
a
minute,
let's
see
here,
I
have
a
quick
question.
We
were
talked
about
adding
a
section
in
the
metrics
just
around
limitations
of
it,
like
one
limitation,
for
this
is,
if
we're
doing
automated
stuff
and
people
are
using
their
personal
emails
versus
their
organizational
emails,
it's
hard
to
pull
that
out
on
github.
So
I
don't
know
if
that's
something
we've
I
feel
like
we've
talked
about
it,
but
I
don't.
I
don't
remember.
E
D
E
E
You
feel,
at
least
this
is
a
this-
is
a
current,
getting
ready
to
open
for
business
foundation,
document
about
how
how
governing
boards
and
csc
and
other
seats
occur.
E
D
E
D
This,
this
kind
of
sort
of
semi-deterministic
structure
for
control
is
implicit
in
a
lot
of
projects.
I
work
with
that
are
large.
I've
never
seen
it
stated
so
explicitly.
It
probably
exists
elsewhere
with
such
explosiveness,
but
this
kind
of
removes
the
curtain
from
the
wizard
of
oz,
for
how
influence
is
exerted
on
large
projects.
D
D
Yeah,
like
a
like
a
contrasted
ruby
on
rails
with
twitter
bootstrap-
and
I
forget
the
third
one
in
a
paper
long,
maybe
eight
years
ago,
and
there
was
there's
sort
of
the
central
control
there's
the
shared
control,
which
is
this
third
one
and
then
there's
the
very
democratic
control
like
ruby
on
rails
had
and
none
of
them
are
lf
projects.
D
But
I
don't
think
that
those
patterns
are
like
those
three
high
level
patterns.
I
think,
are
ways
that
organizations
run
and
the
more
resources
the
organization
has,
the
more
likely
they
are
to
have
this
kind
of
deterministic
or
semi-deterministic
structure,
because
it's
probably
organizations
giving
money.
E
Yeah
well,
in
this
case,
there's
definitely
organizations
giving
money,
but
it's
also
just
the
size
of
the
project
right.
There
they're
trying
they're
kind
of
flipping
industry
here,
they're
trying
to
start
off
as
a
something
with
tentacles
everywhere.
Then
I'm
trying
to
start
off.
As
you
know,
ipi.
E
E
This
isn't
just
the
games.
Industry,
they're
they're
got
auto
manufacturers
in
here.
They've
got
architectural
companies
in
here.
It's
it's
about
3d
engines
written
large,
not
just
games,
but.
D
E
E
E
E
B
A
B
D
D
E
E
If
it's
you
know,
10,
community
and
10
from
epic
and
10
from
microsoft
and
10
from
amazon
right,
that's
are
we
looking
at
that
kind
of
organizational
influence,
or
is
it
just
like
corporate
organizations
own
eighty
percent
of
this
and
random
contributors
on
twenty
percent
of
it?
What's
the
what's
the
way
the
the
metric
is
analyzing
that
level
of
organizational
members.
A
A
I
I
know
this
obviously
is
in
value,
but
would
this
relate
to
anything
that's
going
on
in
risk
because
I
feel
like
it
could
be
kind
of
risky?
If
you
have
one,
you
know
all
your
eggs
in
one
basket
and
then
the
company
decides,
gets
new
leadership
and
decides
no.
We
don't
want
to
contribute
anymore.
E
D
E
E
D
D
I
I
think-
and
there
was
a
job
of
an
oracle
java
project
that
had
a
3d
virtual
world.
That
was,
I
can't
remember
what
it
was
called,
but
this
has
been
an
area
of
software.
That's
been
struggling
for
resources
for
a
long
time
and
dominated
by
closed
source
technology.
So
I
think
this
is
a
if
you
want
to
advance
the
use
of
this
technology
for
science
for
learning.
F
There
are
other
things
on
the
agenda
that
we
need
to
hit
for
this
meeting,
or
are
we
just
doing
the
this
this
today
kevin's
with
a
10
minute
warning?
I
think
the
other
thing's
from
metrics.
A
So
we
have
two
new
metrics
to
start
with,
which
is
like
value
organization,
bring
to
open
source
project
and
value
organization
drive
from
open
source
project.
I
don't
think
we
have
time
to
start
this.
Maybe
we
finished
influence
and
then
focus
on
these
two
will
be
the
best
just
write.
The
yeah
problems
makes
sense,
and
one
thing
I
yeah
one
thing
I
have
added
on
the
list
is
participation
in
hospice.
A
I
think
this
came
up
in
the
journal
meeting
also,
but
I
feel
like
value
working
through
participation
is
very
focused
and
in
aligned
with
hospital,
so
any
suggestion
or
we
as
a
chaos
participating
in
general
or
like
from
a
value
group
I'll,
be
participating.
It
is
like
what
my
proposal
is.
A
A
So
so,
like
I'm,
I'm
willing
to
work
on
this,
I
can
write
a
document
as
a
like
proposal
and
we
have
a
different
options
to
participate
in
just
wanted.
The
inputs,
because
I
feel
like
especially
the
work
we
are
doing
on
the
organizational
side,
is
highly
in
align
with
us
or
spoke
on
so.
B
B
Like
pre-corona,
I
mean
coming
out
of
the
chaos
project
we
would
have
like,
like
for
like
20
to
30
submissions
yeah
at
a
variety
of
different
conferences
and
obviously
corona
put
a
halt
to
that.
So
it'd
be
great
to
find
any
way
to
start
improving
or
like
getting
back
to
what
it
was
like
a
year
ago,
so
banana.
If
you
would
like
to
take
the
lead
on
that,
that'd
be
awesome.
A
E
I
think
there's
room
and
I
don't
think
it
has
to
be
either
or
I
you
know
when
I,
when
I
drop
the
question
into,
do
group
private
channel
about
about
value.
There
was
a
lot
of
kind
of
yeah.
E
D
I
just
dropped,
there's
like
seven
topics
listed
for
suggested
topics
and
there's
one
that
stuck
out
is
related
to
our
discussion.
I
put
in
chat.
E
A
Okay,
so
I
think
I'll
prepare
something
on
this
and
then
we'll
share
with
the
comedian
with
everyone
and
get
the
feedback.
G
A
E
D
D
E
A
So
we
have
two
more
things
on
the
agenda.
One
is
like
spring
cleaning
anything
a
lot
of
look.
There
are
nothing
in
the
pull
request,
but
there
are
some
issues
on
the
github.
C
So
maybe
we
can
look
at
it
or
are
these
related
to
the
repo
standardization
effort,
not.
A
Like
one
is
on
the
standardization,
but
which
is
being
worked
so
there's
nothing
I'll
understanding
on
that
is
just
an
open
issue,
but
I
see
a
one
two,
especially
like
one
is
key
performance,
editor
and
adding
capping
value
focus
area
so
maybe
like
we
are
at
the
end
of.
We
have
two
minutes
in
the
meeting.
So
maybe
we
keep
it
in
the
next
meeting
and
add
it
to
the
priority
yeah.
D
A
E
Just
day
and
time
haven't
been
announced
yet,
but
I
did
get
a
a
birds
of
a
feather
proposal
accepted
by
this
conference.
I
don't
know
if
any
of
you
know
it
or
not,
but
talking
about
academic
value-related
stuff.
How
do
we?
E
C
D
C
D
E
E
A
Our
next
yes,
so
we
can
bring
this
from
it
a
little
bit
and
help
you
out
so
I'll
bring
it
to
the
top
in
the
next
meeting.
So
we
are
at
the
end
of
the
time.
Thank
you
all
for
your
participation
and
support.