CHAOSS Value Working Group, 27 Jul 2023

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From YouTube: CHAOSS OSPO Context Working Group Meeting July 27, 2023

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Meeting minutes are here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Bf6a1Ywi4m0Ywo4vuBBp3Q9_AA_QKbWf99WxAqRbpMw/edit

Meeting summary is here: https://chaoss.discourse.group/t/chaoss-ospo-context-working-group-meeting-summary-july-27-2023/223

A

Yearly events right um I thought it was really useful to have not just like a.

A

um It was like a conference with an opinion and I felt like that was actually like, quite refreshing to like um convene and be able like I felt like there was like a lot more dialogue in all the sessions in part because, like there was an opinion to like Converse around um I found, there were discussions about um a workshop that Stefano from OSI gathered around defining what an open source AI uh means like what that definition looks like I thought that was really interesting and a very useful conversation um sat in on a conversation that um Benjamin Miko Hill and his group I forget what they're called, but it was about.

A

um Research was also really useful. Sophia's talk was a great one. I just feel like the there was breath and discussion um and an opinion and I felt, like all the talks were really useful and I would encourage other people who are thinking about bringing people together that they can consider having an opinion uh um either in a specific track or for the entire conference, because it was, it really I think allowed us all to like kind of connect on lots of different angles.

B

Amazing that was a great overview. Oh that's, the only thing I would add to that. Is that, because of the size of it, the hallway track was phenomenal.

B

um Because of all your your comment on sort of the thought-provoking and discussion and open discussion um after every session, we all were in the same hallway and we were able to find each other and talk about it and meet more people and I. Think I, don't know that kind of really gelled with the rest of how the conference was going. So I really just appreciated that it was really informal. It was really small. You could find people.

B

You could continue these conversations and connect with folks that you heard speak and I just I loved that aspect of it. I think that part was one run really well. They gave us space to do that and Define each other and I appreciated that.

A

Agreed and one one um present presentation I do want to call out that I think is relevant. Here is um Lauren crary from python software Foundation gave her very first talk ever um and it was about the under appreciated art of appreciation and how important it is to give um authentic specific um empathetic. uh um You know messages of appreciation to the people in your community, um especially in like the open source space and I felt.

A

That was not only like a great first talk ever like topic, but um and- and she presented it really well, but I thought really useful for us to remember, as we like make, you know, help driver and create our own communities so um because, and one of the questions brought up in this space was like. How do you like?

A

How do you? How do you appreciate people without it being like overly? You know overly positive, so that becomes like you know um not not uh meaningful and I thought her response was really interesting. Was that like by being specific um and and really saying what the impact was for for you not just saying like thank you, but thank you for doing this.

A

It made me think, like you know, about something in a different way: I felt like um trying to actually the specificity and the authenticity, and the impact for yourself was helpful in reminding us like not just saying thank you, but thank you for what and why I was was, was um instructive guidance for me at least no.

A

I took like 20 pages of notes.

B

A

B

A

I'm going to say, Bard can make an executive summary for me.

C

Awesome uh and then I was trying to pull this what's up while we were chatting about it, but do we know if these talks, if these talks were recorded, are going to be posted anywhere or is that not part of this conference?

C

They were recorded but they're, all volunteers, so it's gonna take a while. Okay, all right, just gonna leave the bossy homepage here.

C

All right uh feels like we got plenty of bossy stuff anything else for anybody to share anybody have anything else. They feel passionate about to share from that conference.

D

Elizabeth chaos had a booth the whole time we.

E

Did our very first one so that was exciting and interesting and fun and I I was. It was really interesting to talk to people who had never heard of chaos before so I feel like we reached some folks that uh were kind of maybe outside our usual networks. So that was awesome. um We have. We also will have a booth at all things open. So we, this was kind of like a dry run.

E

um Smaller conference, like you know, a more simple and all things open is a little more uh we'll see what I want involved. I, don't know like there's gonna, be a lot more people and stuff there, so um it was good to have a dry run and thank you to everyone who.

C

E

Ryan and Alyssa and Sophia whoever else um helped with the booth and uh Staffing the table really really appreciate that.

A

Who won the the Legos.

E

um uh uh Oh I just had it on the tip of my tongue, Sasha, Reed yeah. We have a picture. We didn't really post it anywhere, but yeah we gave away for those who don't know we.

E

We bought a giant Globe Lego um and gave that away since chaos is a global community and it kind of fit really nicely, and it was very uh popular, so I had to bring folks over, which is what it was supposed to do, and they had to fill out a little questionnaire about how they're thinking about metrics and their open source project and one curious thing that came up. Sorry.

E

One curious thing that came up in the community meeting this week was that uh the way we present ourselves as health metrics is confusing for some folks, because they think it's Medical, Health and um I did hear that a couple of times.

C

E

Was super interesting to me: yeah go ahead, Eric.

F

I'm really curious, too, of the folks, aside from the people that were just there to get in on the on the Lego Action uh of the folks that were engaging and were talking about. You know the the subject matter of chaos. Were there any sort of themes or consistent uh problems or use cases that you heard from the attendees that uh you know I don't know?

F

Maybe they don't summarize neatly into a couple of Senses but I'm really curious on of the people that just sort of came up, cold and and learned about what it was about, and then what was sort of the next question that most people tended to ask about about what what the problem space was.

E

Excellent question um so I will say: I think it's because of the nature of that conference and the folks who are attending there was a few quite a few questions about privacy and the ethical use of data and ethical use of metrics, and so that those were some interesting conversations. I know, that's um that's a big thing for folks who attend that conference.

E

Specifically, so um you know chaos has a stance which is that we just provide guidance, um but obviously we don't have control over how folks end up using their data, so um that seemed to be okay, I, don't I, don't know. If maybe we you know down the line want to think about our position a little more or making that more visible.

E

um Just to just to help. You know assuage some of the fears that that folks might have about the usage of metrics, and especially if it's you know something that's going to touch on personally identifiable information um around diversity, Equity inclusion specifically so and I did talk a lot about that. The Dei space. There is extremely extremely inclusive conference and a lot of folks care about this there too.

E

So um that was really interesting as well to see the focus on that and that someone's thinking about it I think that people were glad that someone's thinking about it it and so hopefully we'll we'll see some new faces. Maybe around um I don't know, but it would be great to see them. It was really super interesting conversations.

F

Was there a sorry one more question on a conferences? Was there any specific in terms of seeing new folks were, there was? Was there a specific like call to action or a sign up that you drove people towards or like if you captured, leads from the questionnaires? What's kind of the output of of all of that uh data going to be.

E

That's another great question, um so one thing we learned is that we need to have some QR codes for people to visit various bits of our site because there's a whole lot of stuff going on in chaos. So we didn't have that all we had was our sign with the website, so we just had to point people to that. So, for all things, open we'll have some specific places where people can go to get more more specific information and with regard to the um collecting of information and what we're doing with it.

E

We're really not we're really not going to do anything with that. We're not going to follow up on any leads.

B

E

Just to for our own curiosity, to see how people were thinking about metrics, um but well we won't save that data. We won't reach out that's kind of not really our Vibe, so um you know we kind of leave it up to folks to find us, but this conference was primarily about awareness and Outreach in that way, but we're a little more uh hands-off. If you will in that. In that regard, we didn't have any like hard and fast goals or anything like that. So yeah great question.

F

Thanks so much for the info, that's great.

C

All right, uh great I'm glad we got to kind of chat about Fosse. It sounds like a lot of good things happened. It sounds like there was a lot of uh learning and good fun. Things happening so happy to talk about it.

C

Let's move on from last time, we had an open call about how we can talk more publicly about the metrics and models that we're all using I believe that this is in response to Ai and metrics and models that we're all using, um or it might be just about the models that we're using that are metrics related in within the companies, but I think I, remember contact service around AI.

C

So yeah I I guess is: is this the right Forum um for us to be more open and uh talk more publicly about these models or I? Guess any comments.

D

um My comment I guess on this- is it's totally from the chaos perspective, and it's like groups like this. That help me think about how we're talking about them more publicly and and how a big part of the of what we're doing in chaos is to have the metrics and metrics models be meaningful in practice, and so there's this group, the kind of the chaos you know, osbo corporate Osco working group we're also working with University, I suppose as well as scientific software community.

D

So to me, that's at least from chaos perspective how we are talking about a lot of these metrics and metrics models more publicly by kind of engaging people where they're at and trying to identify the the metrics and models that are meaningful to them in their particular context. So.

C

That's at least from.

D

My perspective.

C

Yeah, um definitely these groups help I, think and I'm I guess uh we should talk about it as it comes up and if there's more discussion to be had about specific pieces, I think that can happen.

C

um I, don't remember who it is that brought this up, but I would love to hear the their feelings or what we're talking.

D

About yeah and also I'll, add like I feel like because of these groups. There have been specific submissions to OSS EU and to the member Summit around these very particular issues that we haven't done so much in the past. So it's more. A lot of the prior presentations regarding chaos have just been a lot about kind of who we are and what our software is almost like.

D

The booth that Elizabeth was talking about, like really you know, kind of informational and come come join I feel like I've, seen kind of an uptick in like folks from this very group like looking at the people who are on this call, like kind of coordinating efforts to to talk about the things that they're doing in their own particular context.

D

B

D

Really great as well yeah Alyssa.

A

um I think related to this question like it could be interesting to sort of have like a mid-year reflection of like this is the first year that we've been having this this working group together, we had set together the the goals for the year like where, where do you think um the conversation has has evolved to like how we maybe shifted some of the priorities of what chaos is going to do?

A

Is an independent Community like where what what else are you thinking about, um and that might help us uh help us figure out where, where we could talk publicly about this, uh you know what we're trying to say.

D

I I really like that and I think that's something we could um do pretty easily and but as.

B

D

As a blog post, yeah I do I really liked your comment about how these groups have helped shift priorities for chaos. I think that's a really great question statement that would be a nice header for the for the blog post because it really has yeah.

A

I think it'd be useful for us as like aspo people, because we don't really I mean I. We don't really know what we're how we've maybe shipped in the conversation, because we've just like you know, jumped in.

D

I I love that absolutely love. It.

C

I could definitely contribute a success story and I've been here since April foreign.

E

I was just gonna um with regard to conferences specifically and submitting talks. I was just gonna ask if it would be helpful to uh bring attention to or Surface some like cfps in this group for upcoming conferences. Would that be helpful to anyone, because I'm happy to just try to keep an eye on those and put them here? I see a couple of thumbs, UPS just.

B

That way, if anybody.

E

In this group wants to do a joint presentation, or just do a single person like that at least that might be helpful. Okay,.

C

Cool fantastic: uh how can we talk more publicly about metrics and models? We're all using sounds like we got some good discussion out of that. Does anybody have anything to add any more thoughts, feelings, hopes or dreams about this.

C

Going once going twice, it's gone, I am going to skip over Anna because she will be joining us a little bit later. She mentioned I pinged her on the side, and she mentioned that she can make it for the second half of this meeting. So I'd love to give her that time. If she can join all right uh agenda items, chaos, ospo, Liaisons, welcome to uh Ruth and Mary blessing who's. Is this.

D

Yeah I can speak to this, so just um so, people know one of the things that we're doing in the chaos project is, as we have these different groups like the corporate ospos, the universities and scientific software.

D

The intention is to have kind of open discussions as we're having here, but there will be times where there's an identification of say, a new metric that needs to be developed or a numetric.

G

Model that may be developed.

D

That supports um kind of stuff that we'll talk about a little bit later, but the intention is to not spend time developing or authoring those metrics or metrics models here kind of like the Deep, the the mechanics of getting that done, and so we have uh Liaisons who have volunteered to in the future.

D

Participate in Ruth and Mary blessing have uh agreed to participate in this group, and so what they would do is Liaisons is be part and listen to this conversation help when new, metrics or magic tricks models are identified, bring those to it's the chaos Common working group, which is where we do a lot of that metric and Metric model development.

D

You all don't have to attend that group, and so we would work on actually authoring those metrics and metrics models and then Ruth and Mary blessing would bring them back to this group and kind of talk through how we developed them. What we heard and then bring them back to this group for review. So that's the the role of the liaison and so I just wanted to mention that here.

D

And we're doing this for all of the the scientific software uh Community, as well as the university ospo community. So we have Liaisons for each.

C

Beautiful that is a great idea. I feel that probably many of these awesome metrics ideas that we get die on the table because they get mentioned, and then we all forget about them. Yeah.

D

Low level conversations here that, like people, are right, interested yeah in in that type of stuff, so yeah yep.

C

I uh I'll be attending that Commons group I didn't realize that that's where I should be going for for viability, probably um so we'll be there. Fantastic um Anna, just pinged that she is here. Hello, Anna um I want I, wanted to bring up the book topic because uh yahui had mentioned that he would like to contribute to the book and there was a little more discussion around the book. So I wanted to give Anna the floor to chat about it uh in this group again took it away. Yeah.

G

Thank you, okay, so I I'm gonna start my screen. I think it's gonna be Easter. uh Okay, oh okay, now I think I can share my screen now.

G

Okay, so can everyone see my screen.

C

G

Yeah so I I, told Gary I think like a few months ago, or so uh we got I, got the same question I. Think in this group and uh based on the feedback from this group, uh we improved the contributing guidelines and now hopefully, it's easier for people willing to contribute to this book have like a more Clear Vision on how to get started.

G

So um the hospital book is hosted under uh the astrology report right now, and if you, if you go to sportology book, you will see like uh there is the contributing uh like how to get it started in contributing the governance uh like the different profiles and so on.

G

So uh if someone wants to contribute, apart from the um uh from the metrics chapter, that I believe I've seen like some of the work that has been done, uh Matt has been serving these slides now I was reviewing uh I, don't know if someone was working on the yeah on this chapter overview that I think it's great and and maybe we can totally there on how to put this into maybe a an issue to track the progress and let other people to also share insights.

G

But if people want to contribute to other areas and specializations of the of the book, it has like several chapters and several topics and they want to know uh like the different outcomes of it's after um there's, there's like a governance, yeah the prayer governance, so you will see like the typical profiles like observers, contributors um and maintainers and how to become one um and then how to contribute to this guide making submissions.

G

So uh we usually have um a mailing list where we have all the discussions and uh from time to time we have like a contributors call, so we don't have like a bi-weekly or monthly contributor school, it's more like once. There is a PR uh that needs review. That includes a chapter uh we create like a contributor call, and uh we gather everyone interested to um give feedback from to that chapter and review it together, and then we finalize a PR and merge it.

G

So that is the process uh we follow um and also we do also have the issues. So uh we have some issues uh attacked under ospa book. So if everyone has any specific topic, they would like to bring discussions. So, for instance, there was a proposal for additional topics and and create um like a new chapter or included in the last chapter um and and all the discussions that are open.

G

uh So usually uh we invite people to submit the issue and from then we can track it, and once we have like um more consistent thing to bring as a PR, we just convert it into the the pr. So um as I as I was mentioning I. Think, like the first three things to get started in case, people want to become a contributor not only of the of the chapter of the metrics.

G

That also makes you a contributor, of course, but if you want to expand that and contribute to the other top there is that talks more about like open source strategy and the role of gospels. uh The value of all sports like there are all the different chapters um going to the governance, uh repo and and read the documentation. Also, if you go to the chapters. Okay, that is not correct, but I need to fix the link.

G

But if you go to the chapter folder and go to the table of contents, so you will see like the expected discussions, topics that we are trying to cover so chapter. One. Two and three are already like more or less like eighty percent complete uh and uh the idea is uh once um once.

G

uh September starts uh start working on chapter four and uh five is related to to chaos and so on, um and this is something that I'm just leading to I'm, just um waiting for for this group to discuss and to to provide feedback um and and so on so uh I, don't know if you have. If this group have any concrete questions or suggestions, um any anything that that comes out or maybe regarding, for instance, the document on the chapter overview that I saw here.

G

I mean ideas on on how to put this or how to start working um in the in the weapon in the dedicated level.

G

D

I had um actually I have an update on the book chapter content itself. That I was going to share here.

D

um Do You anna. Do you want us to have like a conversation here first or do you want it to like immediately move to the the email list? You know what I mean like.

G

So, did you mean the the documentation of the chapter overview like how to move it to yeah.

D

Well, so like, let me let me try to find what I was working on, because that was not the link, but basically I The Hope was is that we could have kind of a discussion here on this call about what the book chapter could be about kind of what the frame would be about.

C

Is that the presentation you have linked further in the the notes? I, don't know, there's an update on organizational osbo functions, metrics and metrics. No.

D

That's a different one: okay.

C

D

um Sure, when would you want to want us to move the conversation out of this like call.

B

D

Into the email list, because.

F

D

Talk about other people being able to contribute, it seems like we might want to frame the book chapter a little bit like.

G

D

Some stable so that the conversation isn't too wide-ranging, so.

G

uh For in the past, in the last contributors call of the book, what I'm, what I'm saying to people that wants to contribute to the metrics chapter is go to the chaos um working group uh and work on that. That is what I'm telling them um and I know there might be some people.

G

Well, not some people right people, people here I- think they are not from the contributors book but I know like some people are in between, like the attending to the working group, calls and also part of the contributors um attending to the contributors calls.

G

So one of the things we can do is maybe organize, apart from this from the regular uh chaos working groups like a special contributor school, where people from this working group that are interested to work specifically on the chapters book and join and also the people that are um contributing to all the chapters of the book and also join uh and maybe uh Matt or someone represented. This working group can can give us our presentation and then uh discuss together. um I know that will help to to move forward. Okay,.

D

That's helpful, thank you. um So if you could you go back to that book, chapter yeah your overview.

G

D

G

No, no, no, the oh, oh yeah, yeah yeah! So.

D

Actually, okay, so actually it is in here. So if you scroll down so.

G

D

Had I had made these sections so section one was how metrics can be helpful and then an introduction to chaos scroll down to page two.

D

This was my uh like initial proposal for the book chapter. That I was gonna, so it is, it is actually this document, so I had tried to frame some of the earlier conversations. We were having into just kind of these five headings that we have here.

G

So, uh based on the structure of the chapters, I think these are like good um headlines to to put together. I would say like, for instance, the introduction of kale. So if you go to other chapters of the book, uh let me go, for instance, to chapter three you would say like there is always like introduction, and then uh there is some like assessment section.

G

um So maybe the one-off metrics can be uh about chaos, because it's like some. It tries to give like some practical insights to to the chapter. That is the point of of having this assessment uh section. So uh I will say. Maybe we can share this document uh and also the well. We I already saw this slide to the in the contributors.

G

Many lists, but sir also the uh this Google doc and until in the mailing list that maybe in September early September, we are planning to have a special contributors, call focus on the hospital on The Matrix chapter and if you can attend, uh or someone from this working group can attend and represent this working group. That will be very helpful I'm, just speaking like what I think it can work best.

G

But I don't know if um someone from this group has all the ideas on how to proceed or or maybe whatever works best I will try to to um also say to to the other people from the from the book to uh to do what what can work best for for both uh groups. Okay,.

D

No, that's I I'll, follow your your lead on that and absolutely no problem. Just I think this is a good way to work. Can you go back to that? What you were showing the tab that had like the introduction, this main structure.

G

um In this, the chapter overview you're talking.

D

About no, it was the one on GitHub, okay,.

D

G

Okay, this one yeah.

D

G

Is from chapter three do.

D

You want them all. Do you want all the chapters to kind of Follow that structure like introduction, and then you have like an assessment tag there? Do you because I can we could work it so that it follows a structure similar like does. Is that what you're? Looking for kind of a structure like that resources.

G

Yeah, so at this moment, like all the chapters that are that we are work we have been working on is are following this structure. So if, if we can keep this homogeneous, that will be great if, for some reason, the metrics one doesn't fit in this structure, we can see like how can we change it or maybe make changes? Okay,.

F

G

For instance, the other spongy patterns Maybe, you might not find something like called anti-patterns on a matrix angle, so maybe it doesn't make sense to include them, but, for instance, the resources is basically resources to the chaos metrics or to the chaos software, tooling, uh use cases, and so on. Okay,.

D

So if you click on chapter two, and at least so okay, so it does follow that same pattern. Introduction assessment, anti-patterns there are definitely anti-patterns and metrics for sure.

D

um Okay, this is I'll, follow I'll, take the the Google Doc that we have like the proposed chapter and kind of set it up around those criteria that you have and see. If we can make that work.

G

Okay and if, if that works just to to give like a to-do task for me, I can uh try to uh pin in but yeah the mailing list that it's open. Everyone can access to that. uh To try to see if we can schedule like a special contributors call focus on this chapter, maybe like uh in in September like the first weeks second week of September and see who can join and and provide input. Okay,.

D

Awesome you've been doing it before OSS EU would be really great too. Okay,.

G

C

Right, thank you, Anna for all of that uh context, and input and process around the book very helpful uh hope we can get contributors who are interested into those groups so that they can help out thanks a lot.

G

Thank you. Let's.

C

um Hand the mic over to Matt, you had that uh slide deck organizational osbo functions, metrics and models. There's.

D

C

Update you'd like to share with us yeah so I'm.

D

Going to share my screen, thank you, okay, so, um okay, so I'm I'm, just gonna! Is this the right one? Yes, so um I'm gonna continue to share this, and let me just kind of give you some perspective on this again. So across.

G

D

Different groups that we have in chaos, we have a group, that's focused on University Hospitals. We have a group, that's focused on scientific software, and we have the group here, which is with corporate ospo's, and the intention here is to kind of help frame the conversation around. What metrics are helpful in um revealing particular things or functions that and I would say a corporate Hospital would care about so that we're not just doing metrics for metric's sake. So we've learned a lot in chaos that just talking about metrics.

D

First is not always that helpful, because it's hard to just place a metric as to having some value somewhere, um and so the intention of such a framework here is to get us to better understand how metrics can be meaningful from an organizational or corporate Hospital perspective.

D

So um I've introduced this before and I would just continue to love feedback. So you've, given me feedback in the past, which I've continued to try to incorporate here so remember, I had introduced this as a maturity model. Do you remember that and yes response was like? No, don't don't do that? So that's! That's! Fine. I agree that different I suppose are in different states, and um so that that is completely gone. So there's not meant to be any intention here between moving left to right or moving from the top to the bottom.

D

Okay. So what what this is? Is it's following kind of a the chaos goal, question metric approach to identify metrics that have um kind of meeting for people. So if I was to take a look at adoption, oh and I will say this too.

D

The adoption, education, engagement and Leadership comes from the report uh that is down linked down here at the bottom, and it's also um what is used in a prior book chapter approximately um as to kind of how to think about um what hospitals are kind of engaging with, and so the idea here is that we have different goals that we could investigate with respect to adoption, and so the recognition of OSS practices in the organization is a goal that we're trying to understand.

D

We then have a series of questions that speak to that goal. So if we could perfectly answer the question of how do we recognize people and teams engaged in open source communities that might help us kind of gain better Insight on that goal, or how do we recognize people in teams making strategic contributions to open source and so on and so forth? It's only then that we have metrics.

D

That would help answer these particular questions, and so we would need a metric that would help us answer the question of how do we recognize people and teams engaged in open source communities so from our company from our organization? How do we recognize the people and teams that are engaged in different, open source communities? How do we recognize the people making strategic contributions to those open source communities and how do we recognize people and teams serving in open source leadership positions?

D

So these may not be the right questions? I! Don't if you don't like these questions, I, don't that's completely fine.

G

um If you don't like the goal.

D

I, don't particularly care.

C

G

D

Suspecting the conversation no I didn't mean it that way.

A

G

A

I like the goal, but that was exactly my my question. I, don't understand these questions. That's.

D

A

This goal, so are these: just these.

D

Are just these were just me, like kind of yesterday or two days ago, just kind of jotting things down and I tried to like write down questions. You know for each one of these particular goals, but.

A

I mean, but would it be useful here then to like start to start brainstorming questions, correct.

D

Because because then we can identify, do we have existing metrics that can help answer those questions you know in within that have been published in chaos, and if we don't, we can go ahead and develop those metrics or metrics models as well.

A

Well, so, for me, like adoption, means the use of Open Source, but then um within an organization. So your questions about, um if you go back to the questions again, you.

D

A

Like engagement, like where um contributions all of those all that that language is, is further up in the chain like um I, feel like questions about adoption and use are much are more about like where you know where you know: where is open source being used? What teams are maybe using it.

D

A

A

And I think you know we talk a lot about uh quantifying business value like how's that influencing, but you know, budget decisions or okay.

A

What is it called, what does it cost or cross-savings? You know, I, don't know something connecting with with value.

D

What is I don't what is that? One then, like.

A

I'm not sure what the question is, but somehow understanding if the, where.

A

How use is is influencing uh cost yeah.

C

A

Glad I'm, plus one Eric I'm, not sure what even what I'm saying. No, maybe I'll pass it over to you. I.

F

Definitely agree that that the yeah, the the previous questions around recognition, seemed like they were much further Downstream and that, if the this this particular section was about, like you know, just figuring out where who is using it where, where it's being used, what's the, what are the are there Pat? Are there common patterns, or is it just like a total scatter shot effect and are there?

F

um Is there a um uh like, like consistent governance around it or people doing just pull in and open source stuff as a uh ad hoc way to get a particular project off the ground?.

A

Another question about use: I, don't know if this is related but um like what what kind of projects are are teams using like are? They um are.

C

They help questions coming in chat as well. Oh.

A

C

uh Tabitha writes yeah.

A

C

Does OSS contribute value to the organization? uh How are decisions made regarding consumption of Open, Source, I'll slow down so that uh and Anna had written another one?

C

um What tools and infrastructure are used in the organization which contain open source dependencies? uh How many um like, where is open source being used in the org?

C

D

D

And Eric I tried to their.

C

D

In ad hoc I get it I'm, not sure if that is uh like, like maybe here.

F

Oh yeah yeah, that's that's what I was trying to get on. Okay,.

C

D

This is great okay, so.

C

Yeah, let's, unless uh uh put in another one, what type of Open Source is being used? Okay and where gotcha.

D

I'm gonna use sort of typing everything.

C

I'm, just I'm just going to start pasting these in there.

D

That's exactly it, but.

A

It's so funny because I feel like this is um this is the beginning of the but they're either I think there are so many questions about what adoption you know like this before we even get to like actual engagement, yeah.

D

And some of these might fit like.

B

D

Is maybe this goal was a little bit more about kind of I? Don't know? Maybe these are too close, because this is the second one being Discovery.

C

D

Source in the organization, I think some of these questions might be suited there as well, but I'm not sure how these are these two goals, maybe differentiate from themselves.

D

um This is great. Are there other questions that I'm missing.

C

Yeah I'm recording them, uh uh hopefully in order down here. Okay,.

D

So one of the so as we are wrapping up on time like.

C

These are great, and this is you.

D

Just keep throwing these throwing these out and what I'll continue to do is try to organize these um listening to what all of you have to bring forward, um because I think once we can set out, and it won't be a perfect set of goals or a perfect set of questions like people never get there, um but it can be a set of questions that can help uh achieve that goal or gain Insight on that goal or and then ultimately, on that function, and once we can kind of establish it, it would be metrics and metrics and models that can help provide Insight towards those questions.

D

And the intention here is that again not metrics for metric Sate. But if we're talking about metrics we're able to talk about those metrics try to what we're trying.

B

D

With those metrics and what we're trying to accomplish within the organization, similarly again we're doing this in in the different in the University Hospital context and we're doing this in the scientific software context.

D

The thought is: is that that, over time, some of these eight boxes they're, these goals down below, will actually be quite similar across some of these different groups, um and they will also be unique for each of these different groups, but as the some that are similar, we can probably learn from each other as to how other groups are thinking about the questions and the metrics that are important to them say around legal and security education. If that seems to be one of the overlap areas so.

G

D

Just a conversation occurring here, but it's a conversation occurring other places and learning can occur between them. So that's it on this and now we're out of time. So fantastic.

C

I've taken your next item and we will talk about it next time. Matt.

D

C

Thank you so much for that healthy discussion and for bringing that up thanks everybody for attending uh this has been a fun little meeting. We've done, I was very happy to emcee it and we hope to see you again soon.

A

Happy weekend all right happy weekend, bye.