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From YouTube: CHAOSS Value Working Group Call 2-25-21
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A
Hello,
everyone
welcome
to
the
value
working
group
meeting,
I'm
glad
you
all
joined
and
please
type
your
name
and
tell
how
you're
feeling
today,
I
hope
everyone
has
done
so.
A
Okay,
so
our
first
attendance
any
reviews
on
the
release
matrix,
so
we
have
one
release
metric.
Is
there
any
way
I
can
share
the
screen
or
can
anyone
share
the
screen.
B
A
So
I
see
the
matter
comment:
how
do
you
define
popular
contributors
to
a
project.
D
B
C
Issue
looks
like
removed.
Is
this
the
one
that,
in
response
to
yes
yep,
so
it's
been
approved,
I
suggest
we
merge
it
in
the
objection
or
do
you
want
to
discuss?
First,
you
can
take
a
look
at
it.
You
can
see
the
changes.
Essentially,
we
removed
popular
contributors
in
a
project
that
looks
like
that's
changing
yeah.
That's.
C
C
C
Should
we
look
at
this
share
of
voice
organ
pack,
one
next
or
is
there
discussion
before
we
look
at
it,
yeah
open
to
the
forum
anything.
B
A
C
C
A
C
A
D
What
kind
of
input
do
we
have
from
various
corporations
and
terms
of
how
they
look
at
this
or
how
they
determine.
B
It
directly
on
this
metric
other
than
being
on
this
call
or
part
of
the
initial
conversations.
No,
so
I
think
a
lot
of
this
is
kind
of
abstracted
from
our
time
in
the
field.
B
B
D
A
A
Was
like
does
not
truly
represent
a
new
pattern
of
the
metric
and
like
when
we
were
discussing
this
organizational
impact.
This
came
up,
like
is
labor
investment,
an
impact
or
some.
There
was
some
confusion
in
this
narrative
of
the
existing
one.
B
B
E
You
can
it's
easier
to
measure
the
cost,
because
you
could
just
tie
it
back
to
the
number
of
hours
if
they're
keeping
track
of
their
hours,
but
it's
the
the
financial
benefit
back
to
the
company
is,
I
think,
the
the
hardest
part
of
it,
which
we
were
talking
about,
because
kevin
had
brought
up
some
kpis
one
of
the
previous
meetings
here
in
value,
and
so
we
were
talking
about
that
a
little
bit
in
asia
pacific
because
it
kind
of
dealt
with
inner
source.
E
We
thought
and
they
might
be
interested
in
talking
about
it,
but
the
roi
specifically
was
one
of
the
kpis
that
we
were
like
yeah.
How
do
you
do
that?
That's
really
really
difficult
and
probably
not
going
to
be
done.
Well,
if
it's
done
because
then
you
know
it's,
it
ties.
You
know
that
people
will
start
to
game
the
system
and
then
it's
just
really.
It's
not
the
way
that
you
should
be
incentivizing,
behavior,
so
yeah,
it's
it's
fun.
It's
fuzzy
and
it's
difficult.
F
So
I
I
put
those
in
there
to
kind
of
stimulate
discussion
because
in
in
in
traditional
project
management,
we
we
have
these
kpis
right.
There's
these
tried
and
true
ways
that
we
understand
how
projects,
how
much
projects
cost
and
possibly
how
much
value
we're
capturing.
So
I
I
put
those
in
there
to.
I
put
that
comment
in
there
to
kind
of
ask
us
to
to
think
about
what
those
would
look
like
in
an
open
source
sense
and
to
to
steven's
point
earlier
along
with
labor
investment.
F
F
B
C
There's
a
desire
to
do
it
it's,
but
it
is
very
difficult
because
labor
hours,
don't
always
map
very
neatly
to
a
particular
project
they
may
I
might
be
contributing
to
project
a
and,
at
the
same
time,
project
b,
because
they're
related
and
I'm
trying
to
implement
changes
for
both
and
when
I
move
back-
and
I
mean
they're,
not
tracking
the
fact
that
you
know
the
whole
thing
takes
me
four
weeks.
How
much
does
did
I
contribute
to
a
versus
b
would
be
one
example
of
how
it's
difficult
to
measure
it
to
a
particular
project.
F
So
if
there's
a
desire
to
do
it,
then
the
problem,
the
reason
that
they're
not
doing
it
is
probably
because
they're,
it's
too
difficult
or
they're
or
they're,
not
sure
how
to
apply
those
types
of
kpis
are
there.
Are
there
creative
ways
that
we
could
think
about
applying
those
kpis
to
too.
C
C
D
Kevin's
there
is
chaos
too,
so
he's
probably
in
the
public,
I'm
I'm
in
the
private
channel,
since
I'm
now
my
own
ospo.
So
if
we,
if
we
want
to
start
asking
that
group
about
stuff
like
this,
I
can
certainly
do
that.
D
D
D
D
B
B
F
Financial,
like
that,
and
you
might
make
the
distinction
between
in
a
in
like
a
project
mindset
in
a
short-term
project
mindset
versus
long-term
investment
in
open
source,
because
there
there
may
be
two
different
answers
for
for
that.
B
B
B
And
it
could
be
like
costs
you're
incurring.
I
don't.
We
don't
need
to
lead
them,
but
it
could
be
costs
you're,
incurring
it
could
be
savings
you
get
by
not
developing
it
internally.
It
could
be
to
kevin's
point
like
short-term
projects.
It
could
be
kind
of
a
long-term
strategic
gain.
I
don't
I
don't
know.
A
D
D
B
D
A
B
F
I
think
there's
I
do
think,
there's
some
some
room
for
creativity
and
speculation
on
our
part,
so
in
in
regards
to
the
issues
around
organizational
value.
The
the
thing
that
I
hear
time
and
time
again
is
that
we
really
want
to
know
this,
but
we,
but
we
don't
always
know
how
to
do
it,
and
so
I
mean
those
are
the
it's.
The
really
really
hard
complex
work
that
that
maybe
we
can
help
them
figure
out.
B
C
Question
I
agree:
we
can
help
them
figure
it
out.
I
I
think
this
also
might
be
a
novel
kind
of
a
metric
that
points
you
know,
states
its
objectives
and
its
goals,
but
perhaps
points
to
a
series
of
different
ways
that
we
have
case
studies
that
actually
implement
some
measure
of
labor
investment.
That's
different,
I
suspect,
there's
a
lot
of
company
to
company
diversity
that
maybe
it'll
settle
on
a
half
a
dozen
or
a
dozen
patterns.
D
C
One
of
the
things
elizabeth
and
I
discussed
is
perhaps
putting
everything
in
that
drive
underneath
the
single
folder
that
we
can
share.
One
of
the
limitations
of
having
everything
at
the
root
with
a
google
drive
is
only
the
owners
of
that
google
drive
account
can
see
the
route,
and
so,
if
we
had
one
folder
that
all
the
other
folders
lived
under
that
if
we
wanted
to
share
the
whole
that
that's
the
way
to
do
it,
that's
the
workaround.
I've
used
in
other
contexts.
C
Well
like,
for
example,
the
value
group,
I
don't
know
that
we
do
yet,
but
the
value
group
ideally
will
create
a
folder
in
the
chaos
project.
Google
drive
and-
and
I'm
just
suggesting
that
all
those
folders
that
we
create
would
be
under
actually
a
second
folder
below
the
top
level.
Because
then
we
can
share
that
whole
folder
with
others.
C
A
That
came
up
in
the
journal
meeting
like
our
weekly
tuesday
meeting,
and
it
was
like.
We
just
keep
four
main
documents
like
for
every
working
group
and
the
main
meeting,
not
for
the
every
metric
or
any
other
document,
and
the
rest
is
on
the
github.
So
anyone
can
use
the
github
as
a
shoe.
That
was
a
suggestion.
G
In
the
meeting,
okay,
so
I'll
just
since,
since
we.
D
A
D
A
A
D
A
Okay,
so
till
the
time
we
get
back
from
the
to-do
group
we'll,
I
guess
postponed
to
revise
the
labor
investment.
B
G
D
D
We
would
look
at
what
they're
doing
already
so
they
do.
D
They
have
a
whole
pre-print
distribution
system
for
scientific
articles.
They
have
the
ability
to
register
pre-register
a
research
plan
to
get
feedback
on
it.
They
do
their
own
kind
of
repositories,
for
scientific
data
and
and
so
on,
and
so
forth.
They've
been
around
for
about
seven
eight
years
and
it's
a
lot
to
they've
got
a
lot
of
data
in
there
and
it
would
be
interesting
to
find
out
how
they're
doing
how
they
are
doing.
What
they're
doing
mike
who's.
D
My
assistant
director
is
looking
at
being
able
to
import
from
them
into
grimoire.
I
think
he
sent
matt
a
note,
yeah.
B
B
B
B
E
D
D
Yeah
I
mean
we
downloaded,
I
mean
we
set
up
on
our
own
server,
a
grimoire
lab
instance,
because
we're
we'll
probably
be
using
that
to
kind
of
track
faculty
contribution.
Metrics
at
some
point,
and
so
after
we
talked
to
the
center
for
open
sciences
platform
is
called
the
open
science
framework
osf,
and
so
we
downloaded
one
of
those
too
and
where
mike's
kind
of
goofing
around
with
them.
B
B
D
They're,
if
they're
I
mean
do
they,
can
we
at
the
the
personal
use
level,
track
numbers
and
downloads
across
all
the
projects,
or
can
we
just
do
the
ones
we
have
and
what
do
they
have
they're.
D
You
know
they're
willing
to
to
get
together
and
have
a
have
a
conversation
about
what
each
of
these
platforms
does
and
how
they
could
help
each
other
out.
Okay,
whether
it's
just
by
putting
an
api
between
the
two
or
whether
it's
something
else,
but
so.
D
D
The
the
registration
research
plans
and
hold
on
a
second.
D
D
Sorry
about
that
all
right,
where
was
I.
B
B
From
some
folks
who
are
really
interested
in
in
pre-prints
and
how
pre-prints
are
used,
it's
a
little
bit
different
than
what
you're
talking
about
so
their
their
discussion
was
about
how
preprints
played
an
important
role
in
the
corona
case,
just
because
it
made
data
available
really
quickly,
which
is
what
we
need
versus
a
peer
review
process,
and
so
so
you're
looking
at
tracking
preprints.
B
D
Right,
so
you
can
put
ways
to
put
up
your
files,
your
data,
your
code,
your
protocols,
all
in
one
place,
so
so
they're
trying
to
like
people
in
open
source.
I
mean
we.
We
have
this
this
practice,
if
there's
some
stuff
in
goo
in
in
github,
but
then
we're
on
other
platforms
to
to
communicate
to
this
group
of
people
or
that
group
of
people
or
to
get
contributors
for
people.
D
In
some
cases,
like
the
writers,
people
working
mainly
in
texts
are
not
crazy
about
having
to
pull
requests
and
do
these
all
other
things
they
just
rather
have
it's
in
github
go
it's
you
know
it's
on.
My
google
drive
go
put
a
comment
in
it
right.
Why
am
I
uploading
and
downloading
and
doing
all
this
stuff
all
the
time
so
so
they're
trying
to
kind
of
like
build
a
better
wrapper
around
that
for
science
is
matching
the
scientific
disciplines
just
as
github
and
get
louder
or
built
around
how
coders
work
right,
so
they
have.
D
D
So
here
is
my
scientific
project
and
all
of
these
pieces
are
self-contained
here,
rather
than
being
spread
out
all
over
the
place.
And
if
you
really
want
your
stuff
to
connect
to
other
things,
you
can
do
that
as
well
right.
So,
if
you've
got
a
lot
of
stuff
in
dropbox
or
your
research
group
uses
dropbox
and
you
want
to
use
us
we'll
still
link
back
and
forth
dropbox
so.
C
The
it's
basically
an
attempt
to
consolidate
the
bricolage
of
tools
that
we
all
use.
D
What
I've
heard
anecdotally
from
a
couple
of
my
faculty
who
know
about
this
they're
mostly
engaged
with
the
pre-print
service,
but
that's
only
like
a
handful
of
people.
One
university.
C
B
G
A
D
So
they're,
not
you
know,
they're,
not
a
fly
by
night.
Did
you
say
15
years
of
funding,
I
did
say
50
years
of
funding,
wow.
G
B
D
Can
what
we're
trying
to
do
first
and
foremost,
is
say:
look
we
want
to
do
you
know
we
want
to
try
to
capture
what
everybody's
doing
in
whatever
field,
in
whatever
way
you
do
it
right.
So,
if
you're
a
digital
humanities
person,
you
do
everything
off
the
websites
of
the
projects
you
built.
We
want
to
try
to
get
the
google
analytics
for
that
website.
D
How
can
we
really
deliver
metrics
for
you
to
use
with
your
annual
evaluation
and
your
tenure
case
in
your
promotion
case,
where
you
know
we
can
look
at
something
right
away
like
the
last
two
years
of
your
work
may
or
may
not
have
been
registered.
You
have
may
not
have
hit
yet
when
you're
looking
at
only
the
traditional
services-
and
you
know
well,
I've
shipped
30
papers
since
in
the
last
two
years,
but
nobody's
picked
them
up
yet
well.
B
B
D
Of
the
goals-
and
so
that's
one
of
the
reasons
why
we
started
looking
at
this
gotcha-
you
know
I
expect
to
maybe
have
an
answer
to
this,
or
at
least
the
start
of
an
answer
to
this
in
the
next
12
to
18
months
right.
This
is
not
an
easy
thing,
but
we're
we're
talking
to
these
guys,
because
we
want
to
try
to
figure
out
what
we
can
do
with
their
stuff
and
gotchas.
D
D
D
B
D
You
know,
but
it's
interesting,
I
mean
if,
if
I
ignore
what
the
what
a
pre-print
and
a
the
pre-print
on
their
system
and
a
chunk
of
software
and
github
repo
is
right,
you
know
there
is
some
overlap
between
who's
looking
at
it,
who's
using
it
who's
spawned
something
else
off
of
it.
If,
in
fact,
in
these
pre-prints,
these
guys
get
these
kind
of
information
back
about
hey
bill.
I
loved
your
thing,
I'm
using
here
right
right.
B
D
B
A
B
It's
certainly
one
piece
of
the
puzzle
exactly.
It
might
be
something
to
kind
of
draw
in
to
the
conversation
that
you're
talking
about
when
you're
talking
about
pre-prints
you're
talking
about
github
activity,
which
kind
of
inherently
means
software
like
at
that
at
that
highest
level
and
how
we
might
think
about
citations
and
james,
I
mean-
has
been
developing
site
s
for
a
long
time,
and
so
that
might
be
something
to
capture
as
well.
B
D
My
first
my
this
is
like
my
second
or
third
angle
right,
I'm
trying
to
I
mean,
as
far
as
the
vice
president
for
research
is
considered.
The
first
thing
he
wants
is
is
an
open
work
policy,
because
we
have
nothing.
D
D
Starting
to
support
other
people's
research
projects
that'll
be
running
in
the
next
couple
of
couple
of
weeks,
and
I
think
my
progress
on
this
question
is
first
for
my
university,
and
anybody
else's
university
is
to
try
to
prepare
a
set
of
guidelines
that
may
or
may
not
be
quoted
from
my
university,
but
just
be
my
here's,
the
here's
open,
rit
suggestions
right,
but
is
to
come
up
with
some
guidelines
right.
You
know
if
someone
is
trying
to
talk
about
their
software
in
github.
D
So
the
first
step
is
guidelines,
but
while
I'm
writing
those
guidelines
and
drafting
them
and
going
to
everybody
on
campus
and
getting
their
input
simultaneously,
I
want
to
start
asking
these
questions
right.
D
C
D
Build
a
thing
that
sucks
all
that
stuff
out
or
the
stuff
that's
relevant
and
says
you
know:
hey,
you
know:
here's!
How
if
we
care
about
how
much
somebody
else's
work
is
used
by
other
people
and
what
kind
of
impact
it
has
if
it's
digital,
here's
how
we
can
figure
this
stuff
out
right,
the
all
the
altmetrics
guys
have
a
little
piece
of
it
and
probably
the
most
controversial
piece
because
they're
all
about
your,
your
blog
posts
and
your
twitter
feeds
and
getting
people
to
take.
D
You
know,
I
think
this
is
how
can
that
stuff
be
gained
right?
It's
not
like
you
can't
game
a
journal
article
either
right,
but
so
there's
this
alt
metrics
piece
that
talks
about
google
analytics
and
twitter
and
all
these
other
kind
of
social
media
things
that
are
kind
of
looked
at
side
eye.
You
know
and
then
there's
github
stuff,
which
is
more
concrete
to
a
certain
extent.
There's
the
preprints
and
the
other
participation
in
my
project
tools
that
you
get
out
of
osf
right.
So
how
do
we
get
all
of
this
stuff
together?
D
B
A
Yes,
we
are
at
the
end
of
the
time,
so
we
can
continue
or
if
you
folks
want
to
hang
around.
That
is
fine,
but
just
let
know
everyone
be
at
the
end
of
time,
and
I
have
one
last
thing
in
the
agenda:
I'll
not
be
able
to
attend
next
meeting
so
honey.
I'm
looking
for
the
facilitator
for
the
next
meeting.