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From YouTube: CHAOSS Value Working Group 3-11-21
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A
D
A
Get
yourself
a,
is
it
called
a
maul,
a
wedge
yeah
yeah.
A
D
A
All
righty,
so
we
had.
I
had
a
couple
things
that
I
want
to
bring
forward
to
this
group.
I
this
meeting,
I
thought
was
at
10
my
time,
but
it
was
a
nine,
so
it
appeared
a
little
faster
on
my
calendar
than
I
thought,
so
the
first
is
to
share
a
voice,
slash
organizational
impact,
so
if
you
could
click
on
that
link
and
head
over
to
share
a
voice,
so
I
kind
of
went
through
and
either
accepted
comments.
So
basically,
this
was
a
metric
that
was
put
forward
and
share
a
voice.
A
I
I
did
a
little
bit
of
research
on
what
share
of
voices
which
your
voice
is.
Really
it
truly
is
a
marketing
term
and
something
I
think,
of
at
least
from
what
I
understand
really
more
in
the
sales
marketing
side
of
the
world,
and
I
think
that
is
a
little
bit
out
of
band
with
what
we're
trying
to
accomplish
with
chaos
metrics.
Nonetheless,
I
think
it
is
has
led
to
some
interesting
discussions
and
I
think
that's
what
has
led
us
to
this
idea
of
organizational
impact.
A
C
Are
here,
I'm
I'm
not
a
fan
of
the
name,
organizational
impact
because
it
doesn't.
It
doesn't.
A
C
That's
fine.
I
I
get
that
it
is.
It
is
very
much
a
marketing
term.
I
should
I
should
say,
though
it
was,
it
was
divine.
It
was
defined
and
written
based
on
based
on
that
marketing
term,
right
so
yeah.
I
understand
that
and
I
think.
D
C
Was
one
that
matt
roberg
brought
forward
and
obviously
he
has
a
marketing
background.
A
I
just
didn't
feel
that
kind
of
reading
it
fit
real
well
with
how
we've
been
thinking
about
open
source.
So
it
might
it's.
I
guess
so.
The
first
suggestion
is
just
kind
of
moving
off
of
share
a
voice
or
or
if
not,
we
just
keep
it.
We
revert
everything
back
towards
it,
sean
or
elizabeth
or
peru.
Do
you.
D
It's
it's
a
I
mean
because
it's
a
marketing
term.
I
think
it
is
highly
subjective
and
doesn't
communicate
like
a
metric
right
like
it's
a
it's
sort
of-
and
I
don't
know
so-
I'm
kind
of
in
favor
of
moving
off
of
share
a
voice
as
the
name
I
don't
know,
for
organizational
impact
or
organizational
community
voice
or
organizational
community
impact
or.
D
D
A
B
B
A
B
C
Gotcha,
so
I
don't
think
I
don't
think
in
value
metrics.
I
don't
think
we've
actually
talked
about
the
value
that
an
organization
provides
to
a
project.
B
That
might
be
a
metric.
I
don't
know
because
I
think
that
you
know
if
it's
like
someone
from
google,
if
there's
you
know
people
from
google
working
on
your
open
source
project,
then
that
brings
a
sense
of
legitimacy
and
you
know
visibility
to
your
project.
So
I
think
that
there
is
something
to
be
said
for
that,
but
that
yeah,
that
might
be
completely
different
than
what
we're
talking
about
right
here.
C
So
we
have,
we
have
societal
value,
so
the
the
value
that
a
project
provides
society.
We
have
organizational
value,
which
is
the
value
that
project
provides
an
organization.
We
have
individual
value,
which
is
the
value
that
the
project
provides
an
individual
and
then
we
have
communal
value,
which
is
the
degree
to
which
a
project
is
valuable
to
a
community
of
users.
C
D
C
C
A
In
general,
so
that
would
be
a
third
shift
right,
like
we'd.
Go
from
social,
whatever
social
share,
a
voice
to
organizational
impact
to
organizational
value
derivation
from
participating
in
a.
A
Community,
which
is
fine,
I
mean
it's
just
because
we
have
you
know
a
metric
that
we've
worked
on
and
kind
of
brought
forward
if
we
can
never
never
if
we
can
never
kind
of
make
it
work
with
what
the
working
group
is
trying
to
accomplish.
That's
okay,
I
mean
we
don't
have
to
you,
know
square
a
peg
in
a
round
hole,
kind
of
thing.
We
don't
have
to
force
fit
things.
So
that's
for
sure.
A
A
A
E
E
A
E
A
E
How
much
corporate
influence
is
there
on
a
given
foss
project
right
x,
amount
of
you
know,
companies
a
b
and
c
have
x,
number
of
percentage
of
part-time
and
full-time
people
paid
just
to
work
on
project
y,
and
what
does
that
mean
right?
E
E
For
yeah
this
this
some
of
this
came
up
in
the
discussions.
I've
had
with
a
couple
people
in
to
do
group
over
the
past
week,
or
so
I
haven't
gotten
a
lot
on
just
the
broad
hey
guys.
What
do
you
think
so?
I'm
gonna
have
to
go
targeted.
E
Several
I,
I
would
say
at
least
50
to
60
of
the
people
said:
gee,
that's
kind
of
hard
to
figure
out
and,
and
frankly,
nobody's
asked
me
what
our
direct
roi
is
on
doing
this
and
I'm
glad
they
haven't,
because
it's
messy
so
thanks
right,
but
some
people
pointed
me
to
the
principles
of
authentic,
sustained
group
that
gay
orgs
in
already
as
people
are
talking
about
that
and
then
related
to
this.
I
think
justin's
part
of
that
too.
Okay
yeah,
the.
A
A
E
And
there-
and
there
was
a
bunch
of
discussion
on
this
recently
in
in
the
private
channel
of
the
to
do
group,
so
I
can't
just
grab
and
paste
what
was
in
there.
That's
fine,
but
a
lot
of
discussion
over
you
know.
Apache
has
this
pledge
that
you,
you
can't
be
working.
E
You
know
whenever
you
work
on,
apache
doesn't
matter
whether
you're
being
paid
to
or
not
you're
only
an
individual
you're
not
supposed
to
be
representing
your
corporation,
and
then
there
was
some
discussion
over
apache
and
the
apache
board
and
their
transparency,
whether
or
not
they
were
doing
a
good
job
of
keeping
up
on
that
or
whether
they
were
letting
things
slide.
A
Yeah,
so
there
was
a,
let
me
grab.
Well,
let
me
let
me
get
some
thoughts
from
other
people
here
too,
so
do
how
much
corporate
influence
is
present
in
an
open
source
project.
Is
that
all
right.
A
C
I,
like
the
question
I
feel
like
it's.
It's
a
it's
a
big
departure
from
share
of
voice,
so
it
it.
It
changes
this
to
the
project
level,
whereas
the
share
of
voice
metric
prior
is
more
at
the
ecosystem
level.
Yeah.
C
Much
more
manageable
at
the
project
level,
but
then
it
becomes.
I
think
what
I
what
I
wrote
an
alternate
question
below
the:
how
much
corporate
influence
present
is
just
what
is
the
ratio
of
paid
employees
to
volunteer
employees
in
a
in
a
community?
Is
that
the
same
thing
in
a
project?
I.
B
C
A
A
A
So
this
could
be
like
who,
from
from
stemming
from
that
diversity,
who
are
the
committers
who
are
merging
the
prs.
So
if
we're
starting
to
look
at
influence,
you
know
so
just
because
there's
a
lot
of
organizational
diversity
in
a
project
that
doesn't
mean
that
they
necessarily
constitute
say
the
core
team.
B
Yeah
one
of
the
objectives
of
that
organizational
diversity
is
see
the
percentage
of
contributions
from
each
organization
within
a
defined
period
of
time,
so
that
kind
of
speaks
to
how
much
influence
if
you're,
looking
at
percentage,
maybe-
and
it
says
a
list
of
people
associated.
So
you
could
see
if
you
know,
there's
a
correlation
between
core
or
often
you
know
repetitive,
committers
and
things
and
and
commenters,
and
such
maybe.
C
E
I
mean
not
not
without
doing
some
kind
of
qualitative
interview
of
the
people
who
are
who
are
the
contributors
unless
you
were,
you
were
doing
some
kind
of
in-depth
analysis
of
what
you
know:
amazon
or
google,
what
their,
what
their
main
directions
of
doing
a
b
and
c
were,
and
is
that
trickling
down
into
this
project.
B
I
don't
I
don't
know
that
he
can
I'm
he
just
says:
I'm
not
sure
yeah.
We
always
know
how
much
of
a
corporate
contributors
time
is
paid.
B
I
think
that's
a
really
great
point,
because
that's
not
really
public
information
in
a
lot
of
places
like
how
do
you
find
that
and
stephen
to
your
point
too,
I
think,
would
it
would
it
make
a
difference
if
someone's
just
for
as
an
example
logged
in
with
their
company
github
account
versus
their
personal
github
account?
Would
that
be
a
delineator
or
or
no?
Is
that
not
reliable.
E
I
it
it
may
not
be
reliable,
based
on
another
set
of
conversations,
there's
a
new
there's,
a
new
linux
foundation,
project
board,
spinning
up
and
the
the
people
who
are
running.
That
project
said:
hey
we're
going
to
open
the
repo
to
members
who
are
official
members
of
the
linux
board.
E
You
need
to
have
your
you
need
to
sign
in.
You
need
to
give
us
your
your
corporate
email
and
your
or
your
personal
email,
and
you
need
to
give
us
the
corporate
github
account
and
a
lot
of
people
said.
Well,
I
don't
we
don't
have
corporate
github
accounts.
We
have
this
that
or
the
other
thing.
Let
me
find
that
real
question.
E
A
So
this
is
all
super
interesting
for
real,
it's
kind
of
funny
how
we
started
out
at
share
a
voice
and
then
ended
up
landing
on
a
metric
that
may
have
already
been
developed
in
common,
at
least
so.
E
Close
so
this
so
that
what
they
had
said
was
we
need
the
name,
corporate
email
and
github
id
that's
being
used,
and
the
response
was
a
lot
of
people.
Don't
have
github
accounts
associated
with
their
corporate
email.
This
comes
up
a
lot,
so
I
guess
that's
right
that
you
know
I
have
the
same
problem
with
in
in
starting
to
try
to
collect
metrics
on
my
faculty,
which
I'll
do
in
the
fall.
E
E
And
you
know,
their
response
is
pretty
much
the
same,
as
is
the
github
response
right
unless
they
used
an
rit
edu
email
address
or
unless
it
says
somewhere
in,
like
the
title
of
whatever
they're
doing
or
the
description.
What
they're
doing
it's
an
rit
project
we
can't
tell
so
we
can
do
a
quick
scan
and
I
can
see
that
there's
like
45
or
50
people.
I
can
identify
as
rit,
but
that's
only
so
reliable.
A
It
seems
like,
as
we
seems
like
this
is
hard
and
sean
I've
seen
you've
been
putting
things
in
there
with
respect
to
the
ecosystem,
and
so
there's
a
with
respect
to
to
ecosystem
and
kevin.
This
is
also
to
your
point
that
actually
I'm
writing
that
stuff
in
there.
Okay,
so
doing
this
work
at
the
ecosystem
level
is
pretty
tricky
right
and
so
my
mind
immediately
went
to
the
work
just
bear
with
me
for
a
second
here,
but
the
work
that's
occurring
in
risk.
A
A
Does
a
particular
company
have
engagement
with
right,
so
let's
say
that
there's
a
map
of
of
20
projects
that
constitutes
an
ecosystem.
I
this
seems
super
challenging
still,
but
there's
a
map
of
20
projects
that
constitutes
an
ecosystem
and
company
a
is
a
committer
on
18
or
somebody
from
that
company
is
a
committer
on
18
of
those
20
projects.
A
D
A
C
Way
think
I
think,
that's
kind
of
where,
where
I
was
moving
with
that,
but
I
think
it's
also.
I
don't
know
if
so
I'm
trying
to
take
the
kind
of
the
the
idea
from
the
original
metric
still
and-
and
I
think
it's
it's
not
ecosystem-
isn't
quite
right.
It's
more
about
the
comparison
of
competitive
products
right.
C
So
if
there
are,
if
there
are
10
open
source
projects
that
are
writing
drone
code,
for
example,
understanding
what
organizations
are
contributing
to
those
projects
and
then
the
popularity
of
those
projects,
I
think
those
two
things
together
gives
gives
that
idea
of
share
of
voice
right.
So
the
which
organization
is
has
the
largest
percentage
of
this
drone
code
space,
competitive
space.
C
A
How
what
would
be
a
sensible
way
to
kind
of
define
the
bounds
of
python
like?
Is
it?
Is
it
the
main
python,
repo
whatever
that
might
be,
and
then
one
layer
of
dependencies
above
and
one
layer
of
dependencies
below?
Is
that
the
bounds
I
mean
that
could
be?
We
could
set
them.
However,
we
want,
because
I
mean
it
sounds
like
something
like
python
is
infinitely
large.
B
I
was
just
if
I
think
to
kevin's
point
I
think
kevin
you're
talking.
It
seems
like
more
about
categorizing
projects
around
a
topic
or
a
goal
yeah
which,
if,
if
we
could
figure
out
a
great
way
to
do
that,
we
have
the
same
problem
with
the
the
social
value
piece.
As
was
we
were
kind
of
struggling
with
like
how
do
we
put?
How
do
we
determine
social
value?
How
do
we
find
those
projects
that
are
socially
impactful
or
that
are
working
for
good
quote?
Unquote,
the
the
greater
good?
B
So
if
we
can
figure
out
a
way
to
do
this,
it
will
have
widespread
implications
on
a
lot
of
other
metrics,
that
we
could
then
slice
things
a
little
differently
and
and
really
go
a
little
deeper,
and
the
only
thing
I
can
add
to
that
is.
I
know
at
one
point:
github
was
trying
to
get
projects
to
tag
themselves
and
categorize
themselves,
and
I
don't
know
if
that
has
been
super
successful.
I
don't
know
how
many
projects
actually
do
that,
but
I
know
at
one
point
that
was
their
goal,
so
I
don't
know.
A
B
So
it
would
be
like
you
know,
I
have
software
that
does
digital
infrastructure,
for
instance,
you
know
like
these
are
server
packages
or
you
know
just
things
that
kind
of
bring
them
together.
One
could
say:
let
you
know
I
don't
know.
Let
me
find
some
examples.
Kevin
you
talk
about.
C
How
about
with
for
the
example
of
zephyr,
so
zephyr
zephyr
is
an
embedded
os
project
right,
so
how
many?
How
many
embedded
os
projects
are
out
there?
We
could
we
figure
out
that
count,
say:
there's
10
of
them
and
then
we.
C
Thank
you.
Thank
you,
so
so
there's
six
competitive
open
source
projects
in
embedded
operating
systems.
So
we,
then
we
take
a
look
at
those
projects.
We
look
at
the
organizations
that
contribute
to
those
projects
and
then
we
look
at
the.
Basically,
we
look
at
the
what
that
engagement
looks
like
some
sort
of
ratio
of
like
ratio
of
organizational
engagement,
but
also
maybe
some
sort
of
measure,
of
how
competitive.
B
B
I
dropped
a.
I
dropped
a
link
in
there,
so
this
is
what
github
had
tried
to
do
with
topics
like
lumping
or
putting
you
know
like
projects
into
into
buckets
so
like
here
are
all
the
coven
19
projects,
for
instance,
and
I
don't
know
how
well
p,
because
it's
all
self-assigned,
so
I
don't
know
how
well
people
are
doing
with
that
or
if
you
know
a
like
a
3d
modeling
project
is
just
going
to
put
all
kinds
of
tags
on
it
to
get
more
visibility.
B
Like
I
don't
know,
I
don't
know,
but
that
was
I
know
the
one
of
the
ideas
with
helping
people
find
projects
that
were
interesting
to
them
by
lumping
them
in
into
projects
and
collections
too
collections
is
another
one
that
I
can
drop
in
here,
that
I
know
that
they're
trying
to
kind
of
bring
bring
things
together
in
a
different
way.
B
A
Goal
gotcha
so
then,
so
then,
the
metric
would
basically
say
based
on
these
collections
or
whatever
the
first
one
was,
but
based
on
some
categorization
we're
trying
to
get
an
idea
of
how
much
influence
organization
hey
a
has
in
this
space.
Is
that
right.
A
A
Okay,
so
would
that
require
trying
to
determine
within?
Like
your
example,
elizabeth
with
the
covet
19
projects?
Would
that
require
some
determination
of
which
of
those
projects
are
more
influential
than
others,
or
would
we
just
level
them
all
as
declared
covet
19
projects?
You
know
what
I
mean
and
they're
all
just
equally
they're,
all
equal.
C
B
No,
maybe
stars
is
what
I
was
just
gonna
say,
but
I
don't
know
about
git
lab,
like
I
don't
know
if
this
translates
into
other
platforms,
because
I
I
don't
know,
but
stars
might
be
one
or
activity
something
like
that.
E
And
there
was
another
one
of
the
critical
digital
infrastructure
research
projects
which
currently
doesn't
appear
to
have
a
one-pager.
So
I
don't
know
if
that
means
they
never
finish
or
they
just
published
it
somewhere
else,
but
they
were
trying
to
look
at
what
is
the
impact
of
non-financial
support
right?
How
how
much
did
just
getting
a
lot
of
thumbs,
ups
or
stars
or
likes
influence,
individual
individual
contributors
or
the
project?
Overall,
I
should
drop
them
a
note
and
ask
them
where
to
find
their
stuff.
A
C
A
C
Sorry
to
interrupt
you,
but
I
just
want
to
say
real
quick,
that
project
popularity
is
a
value
metric
that
we
have
already
defined.
A
Importance,
but
based
on
this,
this
collection
bounding,
whatever
that
bounding
is
if
it's
on
github
or
something
we
apply.
The
popularity
metric
in
an
effort
to
sort
of
rank
order,
the
projects
that
are
in
this
collection
end
of
end
of
metric
number.
One
metric
number
two
would
then
say
based
on
this
collection
and
the
rank
order,
we
would
like
to
understand
which
companies
are
having
the
most
influence,
probably
based
on
their
heavy
involvement
in
the
top.
You
know,
like
three
of
the
top
10
projects
might
be
very
influential.
A
Which
is
cool,
I
like
that,
I
think
kevin.
C
B
Yeah,
I
think
it's
I
think
it's
great.
I
think
it
makes
total
sense,
and
I
also
think
there
is
some
another
metric
that
would
be
related
to
the
dependencies
in
the
ecosystem
and
how
involved
a
company
is
and
with
the
dependencies
on
either
side
of
them
as
sean,
I
think,
was
getting
at.
A
A
A
E
Right,
I
I
did
send
a
note
to
one
of
the
two
researchers
who
was
doing
the
non-financial
incentives
study
to
find
out
where
her
stuff
was.
So.
I
can
add
that
to
the
stuff
I
sent
from
the
financial
one.
A
All
right
cool,
thank
you
all
right
cool,
so
I
think
this
was
super
helpful
for
me
today.
I
don't
know
about
other
people,
but
this
this
could
also
yeah
this
and
and
then
to
elizabeth's
point
too.
B
I
think
the
challenge
will
be
to
determine
in
a
repeatable
way
and
not
just
like
manual
eyes
what
what
buckets
constitute
a
socially
impactful
bucket.
C
I
don't
think
we
necessarily
have
to
define
that,
though,
because
we
can
leave
that
up
to
the
the
user
context
right,
because
the
this
that
measurement
would
always
be
based
on
that
that
focal
area
that
they're
interested
in.
So
if
it's,
if
it's
covet,
19
research,
that's
the
thing
they're
interested
in.
C
A
We
could
there
could
be
an
opportunity
to
make
a
metric
that
is
like
how
to
define
a
collection,
and
here
are
a
couple,
different
ways
that
you
can
do
this
like.
We
could
have
a
description
and
an
objective
as
to
why
you
would
make
a
collection
in
the
first
place.
Maybe
honestly,
maybe
that's
a
common
metric.
C
A
To
compare
with
and
like
in
the
data
collections,
there
could
be
a
couple
different
pieces
of
advice
given
as
to
how
you
might
go
about
doing
this,
and
it
could
be
using
like
what
elizabeth
had
brought
forward
the
tags
that
are
available
in
github
or
to
your
point,
kevin
it
could
be
here,
isn't
gonna
need
to
sit
down
and
think
about
it.
You
know
there
might
be
a
human,
a
human
way
of
getting
this
done
too.
E
This
was
a
conversation
that.
E
E
E
You
know
we're
looking
at
their
tags
and
I
said,
are
you
doing
education
for
the
projects
that
sign
up
with
you
that
hey
it'd
be
cool?
If
you
also
put
these
tags
in
so
we
could
start
tracking
that
stuff,
and
he
says
I
tried
once
you
know
so
it's
trying
to
capture
this
kind
of
stuff
is
so
hard
when
it's
just
automated.
A
Agreed
all
right:
well,
we
are
approaching
the
end
of
time.
This
was
sean
think
I
think
you
were
taking
the
notes.
Sean
is
that
right.
So
thank
you
for
doing
that
and
seriously.
Thank
you
for
the
really
thoughtful
comments
throughout
this
this
meeting.
I
know
we
didn't
solve
anything,
but
I
feel
like
a
way
forward
is,
is
in
front
of
us
now.
C
Which
is
copied,
I
copied
a
few
of
those
bullets
and
drop
them
into
the
organizational
impact
document.
A
Thank
you
all
right.
Well,
I
think
we'll
pick
this
up
quite
well
in
two
weeks.
I
think
we
have
something
to
kind
of
move
forward
with
all
right
all
right.
Thank
you.
Everybody
thanks.