►
From YouTube: CHAOSS OSPO Working Group Meeting Sept 7, 2023
Description
Minutes from this meeting can be found here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Bf6a1Ywi4m0Ywo4vuBBp3Q9_AA_QKbWf99WxAqRbpMw/edit#heading=h.aechjmvpfims
A
B
Sure
sure
so
chaos
has
tools
that
we
use
to
gather
data
about
repositories
and
provide
metrics
that
are
sort
of
pre-baked
and
any
aspo
that
wants
to
get
data
on
eight
knot
can
so
the
kinds
of
things
that
eight
nut
gives
you
out
of
the
out
of
the
gate
and
I.
Don't
know
if
I
should
share
my
screen
here
or
I,
can't
remember,
which
group
I've
done
this
you've.
B
B
B
B
This
way
for
the
chaos
project
and
then
over
here
I
have
a
drive-through
contributors
and
first-time
contributors
with
the
different
types
of
contributions
and
Drive
by
or
repeat
contributors
over
time,
and
then
we
have
a
metric
called
project
velocity
that
we've
introduced.
That
kind
of
just
looks
at
the
weighted
PR
issue
actions,
and
the
total
commits
over
time
gives
you
an
idea
which
projects
are
moving.
B
The
quickest
I
mean
those
are
the
those
are
the
things
that
we're
adding
and
we're
starting
to
do
some
design
work
around
the
starter,
metrics
that
Don
Foster
designed
and
so
that's
you'll,
see
some
things
like
that.
I
think.
There's
also
some
work
happening
with
network
analysis
that
you'll
start
to
see
in
that
front
end
and
yeah.
That's
it
that's
kind
of
the
update
from
a
hospital
point
of
view.
Brian
you.
D
Oh
just
adding
on
to
what
Sean
said,
which
is
all
accurate
so
because
the
not
part
of
this
is
being
developed
in
our
osbo
at
Red.
Hat
I
wanted
to
mention
that,
on
the
non-technical
side
we
and
Sean
was
in
this
meeting
yesterday,
one
of
our
largest
Upstream
projects.
Fedora
will
be
working
with
them
to
ascertain
what
they
need
for
community
help,
but
in
them,
but
which
is
what
we
should
be
doing,
but
then
in
a
meta
sense.
What
I
hope
to
bring
to
this
group
I
hope
is
how
do
we
like?
D
How
do
we
in
Oz
pose
look
at
Community
Health
like
what
are
some
commonalities
and
and
then,
how
do
we
sort
of
help
projects
figure
out
what
they
need,
because
I
think
for
at
least
I?
Don't
always
speaking
for
me,
we
we
sort
of
just
assumed
oh
yeah.
You
need
this
this
and
this
for
Community
Health,
but
not
everybody
seems
to
get
that
the
people
over
in
the
Fedora
project
dealt
so
I'm,
beginning
to
think
in
terms
of
building
some
kind
of
document
or
workflow
to
help
guide
people
to
find
out.
C
Foster
is
the
director
of
data
science,
who
is
here
at
the
cast
project
and
Don,
had
just
provided
kind
of
a
document
that
you're
talking
about
Brian,
which
is
the
starter
project
Health
metric
model.
So
it's
right,
four,
relatively
straightforward
metrics
that
I
think
Don
had
used
when
she
was
at
VMware
to.
D
C
C
But
it's
it's
kind
of
an
ex
like
personally
expensive
proposition
to
do
that
for
every
Community
to
have
somebody
look
at
the
results,
reflect
on
them
and
provide
that
feedback.
So
do
you
have
thoughts
on
how?
Maybe
we
could
do
that
right?
Because
that's
what
I
heard
you
saying
that
you
might
want
to
provide.
D
My
knit
well
without
knowing
about
like
the
I
would
need
to
talk
to
you
all
a
bit
more
about
that
previous
effort
and
figure
out.
You
know
what
your,
what
the
overhead
or
the
expense
was
for
that
in
terms
of
resources
I,
my
Approach
was
to
to
before
I
heard.
You
say
that
was
to
actually
take
a
sampling
and
and
try
this
out
on
some
projects
and
see
if
I
could
get
see
if
we
could
get
to
a
UniFi
or
unified
process.
D
D
D
So
that's
why
and
I
know
I'm
having
and
Hauling
a
little
bit
around
this
point,
but
yeah
I
would
like
to
work
with
this
group
and
the
data
science
work
group
and
anybody
else
I
think
that's
something
we
need
to
approach
so
people
understand
what
they're
getting
and
understand
what
they
can
have.
At
the
same
time,.
A
F
Yeah
I
was
just
I
was
saying
from
like
an
end
user
perspective,
so
I've
been
my
background.
Is
I've
been
in
community
work
for
many
many
years,
I
was
with
a
Drupal
project
for
a
very
long
time
now,
I'm
doing
the
open
source
data
communities.
That
kind
of
thing
from
an
end
user
point
of
view.
What
would
be
very
helpful
is
either
a
Playbook
or
a
set
of
playbooks.
That's
like
hey.
You
have
a
community,
here's
what
Community
Health
means-
and
this
is
why
you
might
want
to
pay
attention
to
that
here-
are
four
recommended.
F
Metrics
is
what
I
see
here
that
you
should
track
on
all
your
community
and,
if
they're
not
doing
the
the
graph
is
not
going.
The
way
you
want
here
are
three
things
you
can
do
about
each
one.
Something
like
that.
If
that
was
like
the
outcome
would
be
really
beneficial
and
helpful
because
it
sounds
like
you're
you're
calling
out.
Not
everyone
agrees.
F
Not
everyone
even
knows
that
Community
Health
is
a
thing
they
should
think
about.
That's
like
one
set
of
the
problem.
The
other
side
of
the
problem
is
not.
Everyone
agrees
on
the
metrics
that
should
be
measured
is
another
set
of
problems,
and
maybe
it's
not
one
size
fits
all,
maybe
if
you're
a
small
fledgling
Community
you
look
at
these
things.
If
you
are
a
massive
Community
with
way
too
many
people
to
keep
track
of
you
look
at
these
things.
F
You
know
you
could
try
splitting
the
fork
in
the
road
or
whatever,
but
I
feel
like
producing
some
kind
of
a
document
or
talk
or
something
out
of
the
end
of
it.
That
gets
people
like
me
on
the
front
lines
like
a
really
obvious.
This
is
why
I
would
use
this
technology
and
look
at
what
it
can
do
for
me
just
by
standing
it
up.
That's
amazing
and
also
I'm.
You
know
we
have
this
great
Community
you
can
plug
into
to,
like
you
know,
help
you
Wrangle
people
and
stuff
like
that.
B
And
so
you
know
with
the
group
that
Brian
was
discussing
that
we
spoke
with
yesterday
kind
of
what
I
encouraged
him
to
look
at
chaos,
as
is
kind
of
like
a
Costco
for
metrics,
like
what
what
health
is
for
your
project
or
your
ecosystem
or
your
your
portfolio
is,
is
a
function
of
the
things
that
you
care
about
in
your
sub
communities
at
a
moment
in
time,
and
it
can
change
and
I.
Think
you
know
knowing
knowing
that
or
recognizing.
B
B
D
Well,
I
mean
so
one
of
the
things
that
I've
found
in
my
experience
is
you
know,
communities
have
different
overarching
goals
like
when
I
was
running
over
I
was
looking
for.
I
was
running
a
user-based
community
and
consumptive
base,
and
we're
trying
to
do
that.
Others
are
looking
for
more
contributors.
That
is
that
what
you're
kind
of
thinking
about
like
the
playbooks
would
be
based
around
those
meta
arches
of
story,
Arts.
F
So
to
speak,
I'm
not
sure
which
meta
Arch
to
focus
on
because
you're
right
it
could
be
a
user
versus
a
contributor
Community.
It
could
be
a
stage
of
growth.
You
know,
for
example,
if
you
are
Fedora
and
you
have
hundreds
of
thousands
of
people
in
your
overall
thing
and
making
sense
of
that
much
data
is
very
difficult
and
you
are
much
more
focused
on
things
like
say:
bus,
Factor
versus.
F
If
you
are
a
brand
new
fledgling
Community,
you
would
be
happy
for
anyone
to
be
in
your
GitHub
repo
at
all
and
you're
trying
to
attack
it
from
building
engagement
and
stuff
like
that.
So
that's
why
I
was
thinking.
Maybe
it's
more
about
the
the
size
of
the
community
rather
than
the
goal,
because,
as
you
mentioned,
people's
goals
are
all
over
the
place
of
what
they're
trying
to
do.
F
But
yeah
that
was
just
what
I
was
thinking
is
like
I
know,
I
I,
attended,
Don's
talk
at
Fosse,
and
she
talked
about.
The
cncf,
for
example,
has
like
three
different
templates
for
a
governance
for
an
open
source
project
and
one
is
like
you're,
a
single
bdfl
of
one
one
is
you've
got
you
know
a
little
bit
of
a
community
there.
You
want
to
put
some
actual
governance
in
like
one
is
like
your
kubernetes
I
mean
it
was
like
on
a
spectrum,
so.
G
F
It
was
something
like
that
where
some
of
the
content
is
the
same
regardless,
where
it's
like
everybody
should
understand
why
measuring
community
health
is
important
right,
but
if
you
made
it
so
the
metrics
that
you
gather,
because
that's
the
number
one
problem
when
you
come
into
something
like
chaos,
is
there's
so
much
data
and
you
have
no
idea
which
of
the
17
boxes.
You
just
showed
are
the
right
ones
to
focus
on
for
your
goals,
so
so
just
breaking
it
down,
and
maybe
it's
problem
versus
solution
like
my
problem,
is
I.
F
D
B
B
C
F
C
C
We
do
have
a
little
bit
of
an
issue
like
how
far
out
we
can
reach
with
what
we
say
to
people
but
I
think
the
playbooks
do
kind
of
extend
and
aggregate
the
metrics
in
a
way
that
could
be
meaningful
or
communities
or
organizations
looking
to
understand
something
so
I
like
that
a
lot.
So
thanks
for
that.
H
So
then
you
can
get
four
answers
instead
of
one
which
maybe
it
was
like,
doesn't
help
with
the
Costco
problem,
but
it
does
provide
a
little
bit
more
of
a
concrete.
This
is
the
problem
you're
trying
to
solve.
These
are
the
metrics
that
we
were
gravitating
toward
at
least
because
I
think
anytime,
I
answer
a
question
like
that,
it's
so
specific
on.
What
are
you
trying
to
achieve
anyway?
Kind
of
thing?
It's
how
we
choose
the
metrics
and
for
the
projects?
H
I
support,
they're,
looking
at
totally
different
things
like
we've
kind
of
taken
more
of
a
like.
There
are
some
baseline
things
that
everyone
should
know
like
population,
but
I.
Think
in
terms
of
what
you're
trying
to
change
is
how
I
guide
people
towards
specific
metrics,
like
ones
that
are
focused
more
on
like
and
like
like.
We
bring
up
this
example,
a
lot
I
work
for
a
large
company.
We
have
projects
that
we
run,
that
are
also
open
external
collaborators.
H
I
like
the
idea
of
playbooks
I
just
would
be
concerned
about
the
amount
of
work
that
takes
versus
like
I.
Think
we've
had
some
of
these
conversations
and
panels
at
conferences
and
Chaos
casts
and
I
think
that's
kind
of
how
we've
done
it
in
the
past,
but
I
think.
Maybe
we
could
do
something
in
the
middle
just
but
I,
don't
I
think
it's
a
good
idea.
It's
just
like
it
sounds
like
a
lot
of
work
honestly.
F
G
C
We
we
do
have
that
that
framework
for
metrics
that
we've
been
sharing
here.
You
know
we
used
to
call
it
a
maturity
model,
but
we
moved
away
from
that
just
because
just
different
organizations
are
just
going
to
always
be
in
different
stages.
But
I
do
like
this
idea
around
stage
of
growth
or
like
age
of
a
community
thinking
along
those
lines,
I'm
not
and
people
can
self-select
into
that,
where
they
kind
of
feel
they
are
and
providing
that
guidance,
because
I
I
agree
like
the
starter
project.
A
G
C
A
I'm
happy
to
jump
in
and
hit
the
first
swing
against.
Most
of
this
that
I
think
different
parts
of
large
organizations
especially
have
pockets
of
knowledge
that
falls
across
to
bring
back
something
that
we
just
stopped.
Calling
a
maturity
model
there's
like
a
maturity
model
for
the
understanding
within
an
organization
of
legal
risk,
of
security.
A
Compliance
and
of
how
to
engage
with
the
community
and
I
think
that
Possible's
generally
have
to
be
strategic
about
which
communities
they
engage
with
first,
because,
obviously,
if
there's
a
team
that
doesn't
know
a
whole
lot
about
legal
issues
that
might
be
in
their
open
source
dependencies,
then
it's
going
to
be
more
work
to
do
with
that
problem
than
it
is
to
help
folks
who
are
aware
that
that
is
something
that
can
happen
that
are
engaged
with
trying
to
solve
the
issue.
So
it's
like
there's
the
the
education
of
why
these
issues
are
important.
A
That
feels
like
the
Baseline
of
making
sure
that
folks
in
the
organization
are
aware
that
legal
and
security
and
Community
engagement
are
important
within
the
company
and
then
how
much
bandwidth
those
organizations
have
to
actually
tackle
those
problems
is
a
whole
other,
like
maturity
model
gradient,
because
some
organizations
may
have
folks
who
are
more
than
willing
to.
Oh
you've
told
me
that
this
is
an
issue.
A
Think
about
addressing
education
with
those
two
like
factors
of
how
much
do
we
think
that
this
part
of
an
organization
knows
or
that
this
organization
knows
in
general
and
then
how
much
work?
How
much
bandwidth
would
they
have
to
deal
with
the
issue?
How
urgent
does
an
average
engineering
team,
or
the
average
leadership
or
piece
of
that
org
take
this
problem.
E
E
Like
speaker
series,
do
you
know
like
what,
whatever
those
tidbits
are
to
try
to
I
feel
like
people
are
getting
their
learnings
from
so
many
different
places?
And
so
we
we
throw
a
really
broad
net,
because
we
don't
necessarily
want
to
develop
the
whole
entire.
Like
you
know,
educational
curriculum
that
maybe
somebody
will
show
up
to,
but
rather
like
kind
of
Peace
in
like
open
source
throughout,
like
the
entire
conversation.
H
I
feel
like
you're
you're
comment
on
documentation,
which
is
like
yes,
yes,
LDS
I
was
gonna,
say
I
feel
like
when
I
think
about
it.
I
think
about
a
two
buckets
but
like
the
need
to
know-
and
the
nicer
note
anything
that's
neat
to
know
is
the
hard
compliance
or
policy
requirement
that
has
been
decided
on
over
the
years
and
so
those
sorts
of
things
often
get
embedded
in
training
and
require
training.
H
So
like
onboarding
of
new
software
Engineers,
there's
there's
a
lot
of
Open
Source
stuff
coming
into
a
company,
so
I
think
it's
there.
We
have
a
couple
of
things
that
did
get
bubbled
up
to
that,
just
mandatory
onboarding
training
and
we're
looking
into
having
that
be
more
recurring,
but
clearly,
there's
so
much
more
information.
That's
nice
to
know,
depending
on
your
level
of
Engagement
and
what
you
want
to
know
in
around
this
space,
and
so
that
is
what
ends
up
being
in
our
documentation.
H
H
Well,
as
making
ourselves
available
as
sort
of
internal
strategy
Consultants,
because
sometimes
yes,
we
have
all
this
documentation
but
having
a
30-minute
conversation
can
be
much
more
succinct,
sometimes
and
help
people
understand
exactly
what
they
need
to
know
and
how
they
can
apply.
It
and
I.
Think
in
terms
of
like
there's,
definitely
a
boil
the
ocean
problem,
because
there's
so
many
things
that
we
could
know
and
so
I
think
there
I've
been
helping
to
run
more
internal
feedback
programs
within
our
Osco.
H
When
I
say
it's,
it's
not
exactly
on
behalf
of
Osco
anymore,
because
there's
so
much
open
source
work
and
supporting
work
happening.
That's
not
even
our
on
our
team
anymore,
so
I
now
look
at
it
and
sort
of
Open,
Source
contributor
experience
feedback,
and
so
the
feedback
that
we
get
is
applied
to
a
whole
number
of
teams.
But
one
of
the
things
that
we're
asking
explicitly
now
is:
where
do
you
want
more
education?
C
F
D
E
H
We
kind
of
to
be
super
Draconian,
and
it's
very
much
like
a
risk
management
thing
of
how
much
out
of
compliance
issues
lead
to
action
versus
just
like.
Clearly,
our
trainings
aren't
penetrating
deep
enough,
because
there
are
X
number
of
people
that
are
still
not
compliant,
and
so
that's
that's
one
of
the
main,
at
least
on
the
compliance
sense.
H
C
D
Brian,
just
yeah,
I
I,
think
different.
Different
organizations
are
going
to
need
different
kind
of
education
roles
because
part
of
my
job
is
also
running
the
enablement
and
training
team
within
osmo.
We
don't
have
to
teach
about
compliance
because
of
red
hat.
All
the
engineers
are
given
permission
to.
You
know
pick
licenses
and
things
like
that,
and
we
don't
have
any
proprietary
software
with
which
to
complete,
but
we
have
a
problem
because
since
right
before
covid,
this
is
a
public
information,
but
it's
not
super
secret,
but.
D
Okay,
well,
let's
just
say
a
lot
of
people
at
Red.
Hat
are
new
and
that's
fair
to
say,
so.
We
have
a
cultural
problem
more
than
anything,
not
just
in
you
know
around
how
to
do
open
source.
We
have
like
an
open
and
collaborative
culture
and
an
environmental
problem
that
we're
trying
to
deal
with
too
and
and
that's
sort
of
what
we're
trying
to
address
as
well.
D
Means
that,
over
the
years
during
our
particular
growth
we,
you
know
we
had
basically
hired
everybody
that
would
almost
everybody
that
we
could
who
was
really
good
at
open
source.
And
now,
when
we
hire
people,
everybody
is
either
working
for
another
company
and
not
looking
for
another
job
or
they
don't
know
anything
about
open
source.
They're
coming
from
proprietary
software
companies
or
they're
coming
straight
out
of
school.
We're
open
source
desk
is
not
necessarily
A
taught
thing,
so
we
have
a
real.
Our
problem
now
is
to
get
people.
D
You
can
say
open
source
means
do
all
of
these
things,
but
legit
like
logistically
and
culturally.
They
may
not
be
familiar
with
that.
The
the
concept
of
Upstream
first,
which
is
something
we
do
at
red
hat
and
a
lot
of
the
other
I
suppose
do
you
can
say
that,
but
it
they
don't
understand
what
that
means.
D
You
know
and
so
we're.
We
are
re-engaging
our
training
around
that
kind
of
thing
and
that's
part
of
why
we
actually
reached
out
to
the
internet
we're
working
with
the
inner
Source
Commons
now,
because
they
have
a
lot
of
tactical
level
documentation
around
that
and
we
have
a
lot
of
strategic
documentation
that
they
meet
so
we're
sort
of
collaborating
with
them.
Now
on
this
gotcha.
C
D
D
G
C
C
C
So,
like
last
time
we
talked
about
remember,
we
talked
about
the
discovery,
how
people
go
about
discovering
open
source
in
their
organizations.
So
that's
like
something
that
would
be
in
this
book
chapter
like
if
you're
going
to
use
metrics.
Maybe
the
first
thing
you
have
to
do
is
Click
know
how
you
can
even
discover
the
open
source
and
what
are
ways
that
you
can.
You
can
do
that
Discovery.
C
That's
okay!
That's
okay,
too
I'm
just
trying
to
frame
it
out!
First
and
I.
Don't
think
these
chapters
are
very
long
if
you've
ever
taken
a
look
at
at
to
do
group
things.
You
know
what
I
mean
they're,
just
usually
fairly
short
and
to
the
point,
which
is
great
so
anyway,
I'll
just
continue
to
work
on
it
and
keep
you
posted
on
the
updates.
That's
it
for
me
on
that.
One.
A
C
That's
a
good
question,
so
I
think
for
the
for
the
What
would
most
gosh
I
don't
know.
Let
me
think
about
that.
Just
like
throw
something
out,
I'd
like
to
start
hacking
on
the
document
like
I.
Don't
know
if
that
is
the
best
approach,
so
maybe
just
reach
out
to
me
on
Slack
might
be
the
easiest
thing,
but
I'll
also
send
something
out
to
the
Channel
Once
I.
Think
of
the
most
sensible
way
to
connect.