►
From YouTube: CHAOSS Value Working Group 12-3-20
Description
No description was provided for this meeting.
If this is YOUR meeting, an easy way to fix this is to add a description to your video, wherever mtngs.io found it (probably YouTube).
B
Just
maximizing
your
online
identity
per
okay
great
well
welcome
to
the
value
group,
everybody
who
is
maybe
watching
this
in
retrospect.
Oh
sorry,
if
this,
while
you're
getting
wrong
elizabeth
but
yeah,
let's,
let's
pick
up
where
we
left
off
matt,
did
you
end
up
hosting
the
last
meeting?
I
think
so.
Okay,
yeah,
I
see
the
items
from
last
meeting
were
the
rit
ospo
and
then
we've
got
the
metrics
and
development
below
that
we
can
jump
into
and
it
seems
like
project
popularity
spawned
a
third
hydra-like
head.
B
Yeah,
fair
enough:
okay,
cool,
we'll
start
with
the
fun
stuff.
Well,
it's
all
fun,
but
rit.
What's
going
on
there.
C
So
rit,
so
stephen
jacobs,
who
has
been
joining
the
value,
call
they're
setting
up
an
ospo
at
rit
in
the
rochester
institute
technology,
and
so
essentially
the
the
premises
is.
How
do
you
identify
value
from
faculty
who
are
involved
in
software
development,
whether
producing
software
or
contributing
to
software,
and
so
in
an
academic
sense?
C
That's
all
it
comes
down
to,
and
so
are
there
ways
within
universities
that,
at
least
in
part,
that
we
can
start
identifying
and
recognizing
the
good
work
that
people
are
doing
around
software,
and
so
sean
always
has
an
example
of
impact.
Is
it
I
always
want
to
say?
Is
it
no
hadley
wickham
at
rice.
A
B
A
B
C
Well,
I
think
the
at
least
the
help
in
that
side
of
the
story
is:
how
would
a
in
a
university
setting
like
how
would
we
go
about
even
proposing
to
measure
the
success
of
a
piece
of
software
that
comes
from
academe,
and
it
may
be
the
same
things
that
we
would
look
at
like
to
measure
the
success
of
a
piece
of
software
coming
from
industry.
B
I
wonder
if
there's
something
analogous
here
to
how
you
know
I
my
mind
was
blown
a
little
bit
by
the
red
hat
acquisition.
You
know
full
disclosure-
I
worked
there,
but
it
was
the
first
multi-billion
dollar
acquisition
with
zero
proprietary
technology
and
zero
patents
for
the
software
that
I
had,
everything
was
open,
yet
it
was
still
evaluated,
for
you
know
tens
of
billions
of
dollars,
and
I
I
it's
not
fresh
enough
in
my
mind
to
remember
why.
B
But
there
was
some
really
good
analysis
on
basically
different
framings,
because
you
know
in
in
my
industry
space
it's
always
been
like.
If
you
get
your
patent,
get
your
name
on
a
patent.
You
win
like
that.
That
is
how
you
progress
as
an
engineer,
but
now
it's
really
shifted
towards
like
yeah,
patents
are
cool,
but
how
are
you
contributing
to
open
source
software
yeah
like
if
you're
active
in
open
source?
It's
almost
seen,
as
you
know,
both
are
important
and
strategic
in
many
places
and
respected.
B
C
B
C
B
Yeah
yeah
would
be
interesting,
yeah
you
even
just
looking
at
what
was
publicly
disclosed
and
acknowledged
right
like
I,
I
don't
have
any
more
info
than
any
of
you,
but
I
I
do
recall
seeing
some
good
analysis
from
industry
analysts
like
redmonk
that
looked
into
like.
Why
is
this
valuable
like?
How
are
they,
how
are
they
redefining
value
in
order
to
make
this
make
sense?
B
C
C
C
That
might
be
a
great
place
to
start,
and
I
think
the
other.
The
other
thing
with
with
ospos
too,
is
how
do
you
identify
and
gear?
You
can
speak
in
here
too,
because
I
think
you've
been
we're
talking
about
ospos
in
the
academic
setting,
which
I
think
you've
been
participating
in
as
well.
So
the
first
thing
that
we
talked
about
was
the
determination
of
value
of
a
project
that
was
once
kind
of
internal
to
the
to
the
university
that
is
now
having
an
impact
on
the
world.
C
How
do
we?
How
do
we
make
that
valuation
and
matt
had
some
suggestions
with
respect
to
the
acquisition
that
ibm
was
involved
in
with
red
hat,
so
how
they
obviously
made
some
valuation
somewhere
on
a
piece
of
open
source
software,
and
there
might
be
something
in
that
in
that
story?
C
I
also
think
that
ospos
at
the
university
are
about.
I
don't
know
about
identifying
projects
internally,
so
I
I
think
there
can
be
a
way
to
kind
of
shepherd
projects
internally,
but
it's
not
just
about
larger
impact,
but
it's
about
identifying
those
projects
that
would
receive
further
funding
internally
projects
that
may
result
in.
C
Like
what's
the
word,
I'm
looking
for
new
initiatives
at
the
university,
something
along
those
lines?
So
how
do
you
even
begin
to
identify
those
types
of
projects
so
gare?
Do
you
have
other
thoughts
on
the
ospo
within
the
like?
What
are
the
metrics
that
we
might
want
to
draw
forward
in
this
context,.
C
D
C
D
One
thing
that
comes
to
mind
is
stories
and
having
stories
as
the
metrics
or
as
the
that
makes.
B
D
D
C
You
know
the
other,
the
other
thing
that,
listening
to
this
conversation,
that
kind
of
came
to
mind
in
this
space
is
we've
done,
work
with,
say
the
open
technology
fund
or
the
chan
zuckerberg
initiative
with
funding
agencies
who
one
are
looking
to
fund
projects
in
need
of
critical
projects
in
need
of
support.
C
A
They've
shared
a
spreadsheet
with
us,
but
I
don't
think
I
have
a
list
of
the
metrics
they're
using
my
discussion
with
justin
made
me
believe.
That
was
a
very
simple
sort
of
scoring
system
where
there
wasn't
a
lot
of
context
or
nuance
baked
into
it.
A
C
Conversation
so
maybe
listening
to
this
conversation
as
an
action
item-
and
I
would
I
would
actually
happily
take
this
on-
is
to
think
about
kind
of
framing
this
space
a
little
bit
that
would
include
the
the
emerging
university
ospos.
C
It
would
include
funding
agencies
like
just
how
can
we
think
about
measuring
the
health
holistic
with
that
measuring
the
health
of
the
communities
that
are
of
interest
to
us
and
different
people
might
have
different
angles
as
to
why
they
have
an
interest
rate.
Universities
might
have
an
interest
because
they
want
to
give
people
tenure
and
promotion
right.
So
that's
they
just
want
to
do
that.
C
Funding
agencies
might
have
an
interest
so
that
they
know
that
their
dollars
are
being
placed
in
good
spots
for
projects
and
then
funding
agencies
would
probably
also
have
an
interest
just
to
continue
to
better
understand
and
shepherd
the
projects
that
they
have
funded
over
year,
one
year
two
and
year
three.
So
it's
kind
of
the
identify
identification
of
those
projects,
kind
of
step
one
and
then
helping
shepherd
those
projects
as
they
are
funded.
B
So
I
heard
you
say
the
health
of
the
project,
but
is
that
I
I'm
definitely
still
having
the
bias
towards
the
value
of
it
and.
B
Totally
just
want
to
make
sure
like
it
is
that
still
the
right
lens,
like
maybe
health,
is
one
of
the
default
values
that
some
people
choose,
but
I'm
thinking
towards,
like
this
boss
index
thing,
that
a
vc
firm
came
up
with
in
silicon
valley
valley,
which
very
much
it's
looking
at
the
health,
basically
by
the
size
of
a
community,
because
they
just
want
to
know
like
is
this
a
a
large
addressable
market
that
we
can
saturate
less
about?
Like?
Are
people
happy
there
like
they're
they're,
not
getting
to
that
granularity?
It's
more
like?
B
Is
this
worth
the
money
yeah,
and
I
don't
know
like-
is
that
kind
of
the
vibe
you
get
in
academia
as
well
like
that,
there's
some,
you
know
meta
metric
that
comes
together.
That
is
value
in
in
someone's
mind.
That's
either
like
this
is
worth
tenure.
This
is
not
yeah.
C
E
B
A
F
C
Yeah,
so
perhaps
from
kind
of
the
I'll
just
say
like
the
academic
ospo
or
the
university
ospo,
it's
about
measuring
impact,
okay
and
then
probably
from
a
funder's
perspective.
Like
that
first
scenario
I
was
talking
about-
I
don't
know
what
the
right
word
would
be
here,
but
it's
it's
often
about
trying
to
identify
projects
that
are
critical
to
to
open
source,
whatever
that
might
mean
but
critical
to
a
particular
area,
but
are
understaffed
underfunded.
C
C
I
guess
it's
impact
in
the
sense
of
there's
a
thousand
other
projects
relying
on
this
one
project
right,
but
at
the
same
time
it's
also
saying
there
are
a
thousand
people
relying
on
this
project.
C
B
E
I
think
I
think
the
from
from
a
funder's
perspective.
It
is.
It
is
a
little
bit
more
than
these
critical
projects
that
we
that
we
have
to
fund
because
they
don't
have
the
things
we
need.
E
I
think
I
think,
the
to
a
larger
extent,
it's
the
the
projects
that
they
that
they
want
to
fund
for
some
reason,
because
they
are
possibly
pushing
agenda
or
just
have
interest
in
that
area.
So
it's
not
always
the
critical
funding
based
on
risk.
C
I
I
think,
that's
a
good
point.
I
mean
there.
Different
agencies
will
certainly
focus
on
different
corners
of
the
the
technology
landscape.
C
But
don't
you
think
that
the
question
is
still
kind
of
the
same
so
like
if
you're
looking
at
at
projects
that
support
say
open
source
in
the
global
south
that
you're
still
you're
trying
to
identify
projects
that
are
critically
important
in
in
that
context,
but
are
still
under
understaffed
or
could
use
additional
resources
to
really
accelerate
the
development
of
of
open
source
in
the
global
south?.
E
E
Yeah,
however,
from
a
like
an
investment
standpoint
there,
you
also
have
you
know
when
people
decide,
if
they're
going
to
invest
money
in
a
in
a
stock
or
a
company,
they
they
look
at
that
company's
prospectus
and
they
decide
to
invest
in
it
because,
rather
than
risk,
there's
there's
there's
not
risk
right.
There's
this
project
looks
really
good.
We
should
invest
in
it,
so
I
think
it
different
people
can
come
at
it
from
different
different
directions.
E
Yeah-
and
I
think
with
funding
organizations-
and
I
don't
have
data
to
back
this
up.
My
guess
is
that
it's
it's
often
less
about
funding
projects
that
are
risky
or
that
that
have
risk
associated
with
them
and
more
about
funding
projects
that
actually
can
show
that
they
have
those
those
things
to
overcome
risk
right.
There
there's
these
these
positive
metrics
that
we
can
measure
that
show
we're
on
the
right
track.
Give
us
money.
B
Yeah
I
like
that
I
was
playing
around
with
the
like
the
cognitive
framing
of
the
word
impact
right,
like
what
what
are
some
other,
analogous
or
or
like
using
the
same
sort
of
mental
definition
of
impact.
B
One
that
I
like
was
a
big
part
of
getting
a
promotion
at
intel
was
the
engineers
would
talk
of
their
increased
impact
radius.
This
idea
of
like-
and
this
is
like
in
the
official
documentation
of
like
how
to
become
a
distinguished
engineer
eventually
and
it's
like
your
order
of
magnitude
of
impact-
has
to
go
up.
You
know
one
fold
each
each
time
you
get
a
promotion
so.
A
B
Yeah
exactly
right,
it's
like
you're
you're,
the
way
they
talked
about
it
was
like
yeah.
You
do
you
impact
your
team's
effects?
Did
you
impact
your
org
overall
effect?
Eventually?
Are
you
impacting
like
a
huge
number
of
customers
with
your
decisions
and
yeah
that
that
is
a?
I
see
you
added
the?
How
is
that
measured,
which
is
apropos
for
our
community,
and
I
think
it's
gonna
be
just
as
dissatisfying
as
most
statements
about
this
is
like?
Did
somebody
in
charge
say
you
did
it
yeah
just
tell
a
good
story.
A
B
F
B
F
B
The
question
was
how
many
customers
give
a
crap
about
what
you've
done,
like
how
many
millions
of
dollars
are
connected
to
those
customers
and
how
many
millions
can
we
project
are
going
to
be
generated
in
next
five
years
because
of
them
giving
a
crap
and
if
you
can't
make
that
measurement,
if
you
can't
attach
it
to
a
revenue
stream
and
a
projected,
you
know
recurring
revenue
stream.
B
You're
still,
you
know
quote
unquote,
just
being
a
senior
engineer,
you're,
not
thinking
about
the
company
perspective,
of
bringing
it
all
the
way
through
to
revenue
which
kind
of
gets
back
to
the
hierarchy
of
like
what
is
the
point
of
a
business
like.
We
want
it
to
be
about
the
people,
but
ultimately
the
only
thing
that
is
certain
is
that
they
need
to
make
revenue.
F
B
So
yeah
you're
absolutely
right.
I
think
we're
in
violent
agreement
from
different
angles
that,
like
the
the
the
thing
we're
going
to
measure,
will
be
general
but
like
the
way
in
which
you
measure
it
will
be
painfully
specific
and
the
story
you
tell
around
that
measurement
will
be
very
yeah,
tough
to
the
only
thing
that
will
bring
it
through.
As
an
analogy
is
like
how
the
like,
can
you
compare
the
numbers?
B
B
C
So,
sadly,
on
the
academic
side,
so
if
sean
produced
a
piece
of
software
right
and
he's
trying
to
put
it
forward
as
an
artifact
in
his
tenure
and
promotion
case,
yeah
reviewing
that
there
are
a
couple
ways
that
I
could
look
at
this
and
one
is
that
he
actually
does
generate
revenue
off
of
it
for
the
university.
C
So
then
we're
back
down
and
shawn
you
can
correct
me
if
yeah
I'm
saying
is,
is
right
or
wrong.
But
this
is
one
one
way.
I
could
measure
sean's
impact
on
a
piece
of
software,
and
I
would
care
about
that
as
a
as
a
member
of
a
tenure
and
promotion
process-
or
I
would
say,
look
at
this
is
actually
generating
revenue
for
the
college,
the
cal,
the
university,
the
college
and
the
unit
or
department
yeah.
C
There
are
other
things
that
I
could
take
a
look
at,
which
is,
for
example,
if
sean
had
a
piece
of
software
and
he
developed
an
open
source
community
around
it,
and
there
were.
There
were
x
number
of
contributors
to
that
right.
It's
not
revenue
driven
at
all,
it's
about
the
size
of
the
community
that
he
builds
around
it.
That
will
matter
less.
A
A
E
C
A
C
This
yes,
but
in
in
that
case,
the
data
science
program
generates
revenue
right,
okay.
So
so,
if
I
can
show
that
you
built
a
program
you're
a
50
contributor
to
a
program
that
generates
millions
of
dollars
in
revenue
again
rock
solid,
I
mean
that's
an
easy
case
for
me
to
make
yeah
in
in
a
tenure
in
promotion
case.
I
I
can
just
hold
those
two
things
up
to
the
light
and
and
see
the
value
that
you
generate.
C
If
you
were
showing
that
you
did
50
of
the
work
on
an
open
source
project
that
was
being
used
but
generating
no
revenue.
B
C
B
In
that
way,
I
think
it's
the
great
equalizer.
It
is.
Maybe
you
know
morally
disappointing
when
we
see
how
the
sausage
is
made,
but
it
is
kind
of
enlightening
to
admit
because
it
equalizes
the
non-profit
space
along
with
the
profit
space
yeah,
and
it.
C
C
Than
the
path
to
measure
revenue,
absolutely
yeah,
yeah
and
then
the
only
other
thing
that
could
come
from
it
is
if
sean
produced
a
piece
of
software
that
had
a
a
large
contributor
base.
Great
like
the
bankrupt
issue.
But
if.
C
A
B
C
And
then
the
third
thing
that
can
actually
be
tied
to
a
piece
of
software
and
a
little
like
papers.
I
don't
particularly
care
about
the
software
from
a
review
perspective.
Is
the
ability
to
generate
grants
yeah
and
that's
there's
a
like.
If
I
can
start
making
connections
between,
say
software
work,
that
shawn
is
doing
and
grants
from
nih
or
nsf.
A
G
G
I
was
just
going
to
ask
if
there's
ever
a
case
where
the
software
is
providing
value
that
isn't
either
money
or
individual
value
for
the
person
who's
trying
to
move
their
career
forward.
Like
is
there
ever
a
case?
I
mean,
I
guess,
maybe
in
an
indirect
way.
The
auger
project
did
help
the
university
create
this
or
you.
You
know
sean
at
the
university
create
this
new
thing.
Yeah.
G
A
Every
single
person
who
writes
papers
has
to
manage
citations
and
the
files
and
where
they
got
them,
and
it's
a
hard
problem
and
the
zotero
project
is
an
open
free.
You
can
buy
storage
project
that
works
better
than
any
of
its
predecessors
and
for
me
personally,
it's
had
a
huge
impact
on
my
production
academically
in
terms
of
producing
papers.
A
C
C
With
it
per
se,
but
but
like
it
to
to
do
that
and
have
an
impact
on
the
lives
of
people
would
would
be
a
positive.
So
it's
not
generating
revenue.
I
don't
know
if
php
women
generated
revenue,
it's
not.
C
Revenue,
but
it's
certainly
having
a
positive
impact
on
on
the
lives
of
people,
so
I
think
the
answer
can
be
yes
to
this
and
that's
a
good
point
as
well.
G
C
C
A
Argue
one
of
the
purposes
of
the
academy
is
the
generation
of
scholarly
output,
so
it
makes
it
helps
the
whole
institution
fulfill
its
mission
more
efficiently.
C
C
Many
of
those
things
that,
like
again,
if
I'll
just
talk
about
php
women,
it's
gonna
show
up
in
typically
in
service.
C
So
it's
going
to
show
up
as
a
service
category,
it's
going
to
be
yup,
which
is
it
immediately
so
researches
it
research
institutions,
this
research
and
then
teaching
service,
so
yeah,
but
but
it's
certainly
something
that
that
could
be
recognized
in
the
classroom
and
in
a
community.
So
that's
a
fair
point.
F
D
D
Well,
take
a
look
at
it.
I
like
what
matt
broberg
was
saying
about
revenue
tied
to
the
project.
D
D
F
G
Georg,
I'm
sorry
is
this
specific
to
academia
or
just
in
general,
just
a
general
okay.
C
B
E
A
It
yeah
and
I
I
might
say
that
this
there
should
be
a
so
revenue-
corresponds
with
an
income
statement,
costs
and
and
income
revenue
is
one
part
of
that.
A
We
might
look
at
costs
tied
to
a
project.
That's
that's
the
other
side
of
the
income
statement,
but
then
I
think
value
tied
to
a
project
like
financial
value
tied
to
a
project.
That's
that's!
That's
what
venture
capital
is
thinking
about.
That's
what
that
so
there's
this
balance
sheet
view
of
software.
A
That,
I
think,
is
where
a
lot
of
the
insane
company
valuations
from
silicon
valley
emerged
from
they're
not
related
to
revenue
or
costs
at
all,
they're
related
to
somebody's
anticipated
value
of
this
thing
at
some
point
in
the
future
and
that
those
are
three
distinct
parts
of
the
balance.
The
balance
sheet
and
the
income
statement
are
two
key
ways
that
projects
are
looked
at
financially.
B
A
I
would
say:
costs
to
recreate
could
be
a
very
powerful,
so
so
sunk
costs
yeah.
A
Or
estimated
sunk
costs
tied
to
a
project
which
I
I
can
get
that
in
august,
oh
fun
using
kokomo
and
you
just
have
to
provide
an
average
hourly
labor
rate
for
a
developer
on
each
piece
of
the
project.