CHAOSS Value Working Group, 17 May 2019

Previous Meeting Next Meeting

⏯

youtube image

►

From YouTube: CHAOSS.Value.May.17.2019

Description

CHAOSS.Value.May.17.2019

A

That's great okay, we are recording the value working group meeting today is May 17.

B

A

Yeah so the note shared his survey that he's putting together and I'm looking through it right now.

B

So the note maybe just to get started, yeah the interesting to know. Why are you doing this? Who are you talking to and what what outcomes are you trying to get so.

C

This is a unity, funded research and I'm, trying to focus on like how companies are generating value from their engagement in open source and I'm. Taking the business model approaches like okay, you are investing it, how they're, making some product or services from it, how they are delivering it and then how they're generating revenue or return from that investment in open source so and I'm. Trying and my focus is right.

C

Now the little focus at capitals like try to reach out all the companies who are sponsoring Linux, Foundation them like thousand plus companies, and those are the companies which are investing in open source. They are there my target market from where I can get inside like how their engagement with open source is giving them some kind of a return or like supporting their business, grow and expand.

B

What what is the, what is, is this gonna be like a something that you email to them? Are you gonna put up a web page? Are you gonna do interviews how what's going to be hello.

C

That Pruitt is to develop a question, appears from the literature and discussion that the community and then posted through koala tricks and we'll send the email to like the dog, like a participants, will be the open source community managers or the key persons in the company who decides on the investment in open source or engagement and open source. Okay,.

B

When it's your deadline, when you win, would you like to start and when would you like.

D

C

My finishing deadline is I know someone is like 20th August. Okay, oh my like my current deadline is by end of May. I have to get my question there done and then I have to start collecting the list of people and start sending them the questionnaire. So they can be flexible 1015 days, but not more than that. Gotcha.

B

Okay, awesome and.

D

Your your starting now I am.

C

Already on it, so right now, I'm in a questionnaire development phase. So once the questionnaire is finalized, I have to get a beer for work. mmm For this, I have a like hard deadline. I have to get the idea to will buy before 1st of June is.

B

This a is this a full-time thing for you or part-time. It's.

C

My part-time summer work, yeah and.

B

Who is your sponsor within the university? It's a.

C

B

E

What does internal research into.

A

Neutron yep, so the university has a playground for student to submit grant proposals and then they provide a pen or, and you applied to Caracas for up to five thousand dollars.

B

That's awesome, yep.

A

As a way to practice and get into the business of writing grants, yeah.

B

A

B

Okay, thank you for thank you for submitting to my questions. You want to walk us through this. Yes,.

E

Are you looking at the beach on the questionnaire? Yes, also.

A

Show your screen B notice. That makes sure we are all looking at the same thing: okay man just give.

E

Me a second okay.

E

Can you see this fishing? Yes, yes,.

C

Okay, so my focus is like look at the three aspect of a business model. It's like how what company off first, what is the value proposition and what a second is value delivery. How company provides this product and services and to whom it provides? What is its like strategic position like they are focusing on the niche market or they are focusing on the like high sales volume or like elite clientele, or something like this and then by delivering this product, how they are capturing the value from this services yeah. So.

B

C

Questions are designed around these three themes and like besides these three things, I have one more extra theme, which is demographic, just to have a general idea of the participants, so in in demographics, we have questions like country from which country the respondent belongs to and in which country respondents, company, business.

B

C

And gender identity about the respondent and then what is this company size? So is it a small company, medium enterprise, a self-employed company or a large corporate, and then here question is like what should be the ideal granularity in getting the answers. It's like self-employed one to ten eleven to fifty. Fifty one to two hundred right provide an eleven choices or just two three choices: yeah.

C

Any thoughts and inputs on this which question.

A

C

B

Finite thing, I'm.

A

So it so my big question for what these questions is.

A

Why do you want to know this, and then we can know whether you need more granularity or little esses better, because generally, you want to reduce what you present to participants. Yes, as few questions as possible with as few answer.

C

Options as possible, otherwise you it's like I want to identify whether it's small, medium enterprise or proprietorship or a large corporation. That is a key goal or I can like converted. This question enter like okay. There are you a small, medium enterprise or individual proprietorship or a large corporation, something like this. The coolest or like have these groups to see whether, like, oh, like more individuals, are participating in the open source, engagement, business or it's like all big corporates are participating or small media enterprises are more participating in this.

A

So it sounds like you want three options: there: small and medium-sized businesses startups yes and large businesses, and then, with those three definitions, you can say: okay, startup less than ten people, small medium, ten to five hundred people, large more than 500.

C

Okay, so so I think it'll be like okay, self-employed one to ten and ten to five hundred and about 500, self-employed startup.

A

Small or medium sized.

E

Large business about 500.

B

No another idea of a no just in the spirit of minimizing the number of data points that you collect from the end user, you're, probably going to know, know, know your audience and if it's a fit you're gonna know if the person's in facebook or a little little startup.

C

So I'm not asking any personal question in this, so I'm not sure whether to include any such thing in the questionnaire or not. That is also like point over thing.

A

Well, why would you want that information? That's the first question to ask for any question survey so.

C

My audience are all the companies engaged in their open source and which is really diverse. If you look at the membership of the Linux operation, and most of them are small medium to large corporations,.

A

I'm gonna suggest a new question: what is your role in your company.

A

Because you have people who are more or who will know some of these answers better than others and by asking who they are within a company gives you insight to how much they look at the strategic position of the company? Yes, so if you have a c io m chief information officer, it'll have a much more strategic with you and can answer your questions, probably better, and if you have a junior developer, who just joined and just learnt github.

C

Yeah that makes sense.

C

The question is, how do we get like howdy? Ideally, my target ID audience are the those who are the decision-makers right, but they are hard to find.

A

That check some work to find those contact. Information. That's true, and if you include this question type, then you can verify that you were successful in reaching out to them. Okay,.

E

E

That makes sense.

C

And question 6 is how long your company has been in business just to get like how old the company is and then like on the on supporting the question. 7 is: when did your company start using open-source as the part of business strategy? This will like help us gauge: ok, they're, using open source from day one or they're using open source after some period of time, or something like this.

A

C

Yeah and the choices are fine one, two, three four, seven, eight to eleven, twelve and more so.

A

I seem to remember- and you will have to look up the statistic that most companies that are started to fail within seven years and there's a small I, don't know 10% chance for a company to survive seven years yeah. So look at what that number is.

A

There research I, don't know where I got this number from.

C

Seven years is.

A

The survival time for a company or companies that survive seven years have a higher chance of surviving long term. Most products or business ideas are abandoned within seven years. Okay,.

A

C

A

It makes sense to me to include this. This is an early that is still likely to fail, and this is a company that is has been in business long enough or I. Don't know whether eight to 11 versus 12 or more makes a difference. I might merge.

C

Them our seven to seven and above one, two three four to seven and seven and above yeah.

C

Okay, then next question is: what is your company's business approach to open source.

A

Now, just just on question 6 &, 7 I would use the same time frames. Yes,.

C

Question 8: what is your company's business approach to open source.

C

Unleash open source on the proprietary, high proprietary and some open source, high, open source and some proprietary, equal user propriety and of engines.

A

So it is the question for any any of you see this question: what is your company's business approach to open source? And then you look at the answer. Options.

A

Does that make sense to you.

B

Well, I guess for me right now: I'd like to hold off on getting feedback until I understand more just about what four node would like to do and what type of outcome he would like to get and I I have a lot of ideas in my head, but I want to withhold giving feedback until I hear more.

B

You know just about about what the node is trying to do here. So.

A

Maybe, instead of going question by question, then you should talk about more high level, how this fits into analysis and conclusions. I'm.

B

Interested in that I'm interested in, like how will these survey results be used, I'm curious about that I'm curious about who the audience is for the survey results I'm curious about what people's motivations and ambitions are. You.

C

B

That things of that nature, although I, don't mind discussion of the the detailed questions, but I'll withhold feedback on the structure of the questions until maybe I've got a little bit more orientation on some of these other things.

B

But but what I see I love, you know I, think and I think the idea of using you know Qualtrics as the first way to engage with the prospect is awesome and you know, and of course, I have a whole ton of ideas, also but I, but but I think this is. This is wonderful. What I see here so far.

C

Okay, so how about we quickly go through the questions so that it gives you some sense and then we can discuss more on their details. That'd.

B

Be great yeah, okay,.

C

And the next question is: how many open-source project does your company engage with measure the company engagement and open source, and the do you personally engage in open source user community.

B

C

Do you personally maintain or manage and open source user community.

B

C

Big is user community, okay, is it comprised of two-person 30 people or how big is the community? They are engaged right and the motivation question is: what is your company's reason for investing in open-source right? This is a strategy product innovation, low cost of investment just to spend marketing budget, or they have some regulatory requirement for community. Well, here, I would say on the community engagement I, don't know is: is there some some kind of requirement for community engagement for companies? Our social engagement well,.

B

It's a it could be a marketing strategy that can't be on.

E

B

Way of building brand and entrust, and so on, yeah.

C

Our to recruit people or service community or any others I'm, not sure. Maybe we can get some input on this.

C

So now comes the value proposition. How they are used, leveraging open source is what is the company's product makes it's like monetary software, complimentary stokin source of their monetary service, compliment priest, open source software, yeah.

A

C

Hardware, complimentary it open source software or others, please, a specific right so and I'm giving them the multiple choice. A company can have like services and complementary like services and software, both in with regards to open source. So it'll be a odd. They can have services a software and even hardware to boot. So a company can be diverse right.

B

C

Then it's like question 15 is connected to question 14 question 14 was high level question. 15 is more granular like cookie. If you are services little, what kind of services is it installation support, client services, a dog solutions if your software, like software, enhancements or training in consulting with software or services, it's like granularity from 14, so now kind of a question is like: should we keep 14 and 15 together or we merge them or that is a tricky part? Okay, the thing huh like 14 is high level question and 15 is more granular pressure.

A

So is the if you get the answer for 15 what you also know the question for 14 I guess so well. 14 is already answered by 15 one. You.

C

A

C

Okay for monetary software, complimentary there is a software enhancement or just additional software for services. It's like installation support like a dog distribution, marketing, consulting training like first a tower for services.

C

Maybe nine ten is for announcement and eleven is just for hardware.

C

You can either merge it or like make it one question and interpret one or other from this question.

C

And the next question is how many open-source Ally I initially wrote? How many open-source licenses do you use on which I got your comment and was really nice from which they will have two more questions like which open-source license?

C

Sorry, no 16 is how many open-source licenses, like single open-source, license or single profile, key lessons or multiple proprietary license. Multiple open source are mixed, like dual licensing. One. Is that and then second is which open-source license do you use? This was vague and yoke. Helped me in this like which license? Does your organization prefer for releasing internal intellectual property as open-source.

C

And the second question is: what licenses does your organization prefer when including open source software in its innovation stream, like projects, products and services? I?

C

Think your guy, like your these two questions better than my question, which open-source license do you use? These are more granular like golly, you get really good to different aspects from the licensing yeah.

A

Well, that's why you do it eration, Zahn, the questions to finally, yes, I also suggested a new wording for q16 okay, rather than asking how many, which is just one number: okay, you're asking for the composition of what types of licenses right and so yeah.

C

So now the question is: should I provide them a entire list of all the licenses or have two or three scroll down options like okay? They have one scroll down option, they have to scroll down or three scroll down auctions or all the lists. I.

A

Think they're way too many licenses to have a checkbox to have checkboxes for all of them right.

B

A

Don't think that you're analyzing the licenses specifically right, you're more interested in the strategic use of open source and less only one small component, so I wouldn't add too much detail there. Okay,.

C

But my life, if a company is using two or three licenses, different kinds of and like what licenses, does your organization prefer for releasing intellectual property as an open source? Now the question is I: do I provide two or three scroll down lists options.

A

Maybe you can just have a the most popular pie so like Apache, MIT, TPL right.

C

A

C

Five five very popular I can have it in the list and then northern the list or no options or other are others like not in the listings and there's actually.

A

Well, yeah, not in the list, serves the same purposes other with other. You give the bonding more more option to bring in their own I. Don't know it creates more ownership over their answer. It's not just the other and allow them to provide the information that they know. Yep at.

C

This but Linda Gaylord right I can believe.

C

Then is a section on value delivery, how they are delivering the so this is: are they delivering it to individuals, small medium enterprises to large corporations or non public sector? It's a multiple choice, whether they are delivering like a company, can deliver to all of them to just one particular target pocket.

E

Don't know, okay got it.

C

And the next question is how your product is differentiated from your competitors, haven't like I'm unable to come up with the multiple choice on this. Why.

A

Do you need this question.

C

If this is going to tell me your strategy, if you call it photos fire factor differentiation strategy,.

C

Like are you focusing on some small Nietzsche or you're, focusing large scale or like how your product you are differentiating your product through open source like you, are engaged in open source, you're, utilizing it how this is making your product differentiated from others? That's what I wanted to know.

A

Isn't there what's it called competition.

A

Competitive matrix or quadrants, yet leadership and you have to ship. Maybe you could use that research or that framework as your answer options, and that gives you a good literature foundation for asking this question. Ok, ok,.

E

A

Was it Peter Drucker who put this together.

C

Or just five factor strategy was I I think he was the literature, no yeah.

A

Who was the original author on that.

C

Iii don't be called.

A

C

To find out yeah.

C

And the next question is: how does your company engage with open source?

C

Is it like, through project coordination, through project support in terms of financial non-financial, like logistic, like input by providing the code by contributing the course and by birth fixation by using the software without engaging back.

C

And in the last order list value generation, it's like how your company's making revenue through open source engagement because your company invest in open source. How does your company invest and open source? It's like direct in form of cash corporate sponsorship, so I'm expecting this question will be skewed with my sample with this choice: corporate sponsorship, as all of these companies that I'm, focusing in my sample, are sponsoring Linux Foundation, it's a kind of a corporate sponsorship. I, don't know!

C

Maybe our providing resources like web hosting cloud services, dedicating full-time employees, fortune, source development, invest marketing or a specific department money. Only.

A

How is this question different from the previous.

A

C

Kind of engagement- and this is more of a type of engagement like in forms of resources,.

A

So I'm, looking at the answer, options and your cash in both of them, you have corporate sponsorship and both of them, you boarded them slightly different, but dedicating full time and police isn't both of them. So the answer options seem to overlap yeah and whether you're engaging or you call it investing where's that fine line where's the difference.

C

Maybe I think I should merge it in one.

A

Maybe I don't know it depends on, but that you had two different things. You wanted to be that.

C

Like my goal was in the revenue model was like water, the different ways, company.

C

Investor in open source.

C

Which I think we we majored I? Think it's overlapping I should remove it as a like merge it into one mm-hmm.

B

So I've uh I've got a take off in 20 minutes and.

C

B

I wonder if it would be okay if we just went sort of.

B

Oh through this, then back and they have a little discussion about goals and what we want is to achieve that sort of thing. Yeah.

A

Sorry I keep getting drawn into the details. Yeah.

C

A

C

Just go through the question is: like: does your organization dedicated voice to open-source? Yes, how they dedicate it? It's like full-time, part-time, occasionally, project pieces, and then how does your organization generate revenue, it's mainly from subscription, or mainly from consultancy or selling? I think this is also propriety license or hybrid, and this is also what I think we can reduce this, and what percentage of total business is invested in open-source?

C

It's like how much your investment in like overall investment total investment is in open source and how much revenue, if you are earning hundreds of dollars, how much of that is coming from engagement with open source or like through open source, product selling, open source products or selling open source complimentary or anything just major like what portion of their entire business open source is contributing in that and the cost portal is like how companies reducing the cost, through engagement, open source like by reducing no software development or having low number.

B

Of employees in organization.

C

Are more flexible pricing because, since you are not developing your customizing things, you can have a flexible pricing too, because you don't have a too much overhead cost or something like this and loss. Two questions are: how do you calculate cause?

C

Save using open source, estimating salary cost is saved due to use of open source or comparing in-house development first, with using open source development cost for others and- and the last is like, how do you calculate the cost of investment in open source by assigning cash to the cost of investment or by calculating the salaries of employees or calculating the cost of other resources, I hope you're providing web hosting? What is the cost of have web hosting? And things like these? You know, and how do you calculate return on the investment?

C

It's like monetary, in terms of cash invested in open source, counting by a number of people hired by company through open source, calculating the increase in sells or brand image or customer base through investment and open source.

C

They have never calculated the return on open source or others. They can you specify mm-hmm and this. The last question is on the risk is like what are the risk of any faces in engaging with open source, the risk of licensing lawsuits, risk of low return due to open source code, risk of low support services, risk of low slow fixation of bug in open source, because it takes time to get it fixed. Maybe community have time no yeah things like this.

B

So I think that's an awesome risk.

B

Can we talk? Can we talk a little bit about motivations and goals, and you know how we, how we see this, this data collection, you know kind of serving our own personal ambition, plus how it fits into other programs that people are doing. Yes,.

B

So there's a there's a few different.

B

Goals that I think people might have.

B

One one goal that I have, in my mind, is is to help Sean. You know, collect data to help guide him in you know designing this idea of prioritize metrics for augur alright. So that's that's.

B

One idea that I have another is potentially I think it would be valuable to create something like you know, the Society of open-source value, which you know would just be like an ongoing community, a broader community that that you know people people who are you know open-source program office managers could could be a part of to you know trade ideas, trade metrics that sort of things. So this this could be kind of like the start, end of forming a group like that personally I'm interested in this, because.

B

I want to build. You know, I want to use this as a as a front-end to engage people about bug mark. So my theory is is that when we, when we get these value benchmarks that that you know driving things through a through a market, mediation is going to be more efficient and it's going to improve their key performance indicators.

B

So that's a personal ambition that I have- and maybe you guys have- maybe you guys have got goals that are you know completely different from that, so I think a starting point would be let's, let's just make a laundry list of all possible goals, and you know figure out where the commonalities are I. Think that'll help to guide a survey like this, and you know how it might fit into a whole program to engage a value community.

C

To me, the goal was to gauge how engagement little pen sources adding value to the companies mm-hmm. That was a keyboard all this step. Okay,.

B

Okay, but I might say okay, for what purpose is that? Is it just like? Oh here's, a standalone, here's a standalone survey and then we publish it and and walk away or you know would this be like, for example? Maybe maybe you have a personal ambition? You know you want to be a consultant in this area and build a consulting practice to help companies understand how to optimize the value of their open source or.

B

Those sorts of things so I think it I think would be good to you know kind of get a handle on it. Maybe maybe understanding that maybe understanding the value would you know if your ambition is to be an academic? Maybe maybe understanding the value would give you some proprietary Sasori resources that would allow you to write better proposals or you know. Maybe you want to get a PhD, an open-source value or something like that. Yeah.

C

I'm exploring right now, I haven't decided exactly okay, it's like open to ideas and open to exploration. Okay, and this is one of the step to explore the avenues. Mm-Hmm.

D

C

So that can be a goal just explore.

D

You know just an exploding.

C

There venues right I'm in a phase of exploring their venues. Okay,.

B

Okay, all right that makes sense.

A

So I think for aligning the survey with the volume metrics and Blackmar. We have one question already in here: q 31, which is how do you calculate the cost of investment in open source.

A

That I think would be very interesting, but I think it's I think we want more detail than just cost of investment, so.

C

What are the choices like auctions, or we can add it to it?.

A

Maybe we can add more options or add more questions, so one question that we could ask is about parameterised, metrics and nd. Here's where, where you could maybe the just the wording that would get at what you're working or what you want to know. When you talk to people uh-huh, maybe we can ask.

A

How valuable do you know? That's the stupid question, because it, the obvious answer, is yes or maybe something like do you currently use metrics that you can parameterize and then, with the description of what we mean by parameterised metrics, maybe can make it something more open than he gets no question I.

A

Don't know if that would help, but what you want to do with parameterised metrics well,.

B

Mostly, what I was thinking about for parameterised metrics is just a collect feedback that would be useful for Sean. Okay, so we said for parameterised metrics. You know our version. Zero implementation is export your metrics to an Excel spreadsheet, and then you know write some formula that that calculates a business value and.

B

So it would be to me it would be interesting to to get feedback from people to discover like if they, if they were to create such a spreadsheet, what values would they plug in when they plug in their labor rates? Would they plug in their contractor rates? Would they plug in their time to hire? Would they plug in their time to close how.

C

About you can add the open-ended question with sex like what are the parameters you look into, while calculating your value from the open source. It can be in just a open-ended question in the end or somewhere in in this flow sure.

C

Anything you guys can come up like I have I still have time to like finalize it and start distributing it. So, if anything like from perspective her value, if you want to get to know the feedback from the community, we can add that question and get the input on that.

A

So I worded it as if you have a spreadsheet, to calculate the value of your company's engagement with open source. What metrics would you include in this calculation and then we can provide a list of examples like number of commits number of issues and everything else we already have in the repo and then have an open text field.

A

And I think that would give us some background on the idea of a parameterised metric mm-hmm.

B

A

Also think what makes sense to validate the focus areas from the value, metrics working, group and I think it aligns. Also with your question, we note of how does open source engagement create value yes by asking something like are you concerned about and then fill in the focus area.

A

Maybe there's a better way to do it rather than say. Are you concerned about what we are you concerned about and then that'd be a Likert scale, question.

B

Sorry I'm just typing here.

B

So I'm just banging out ideas. This is this is very much a spirit of brainstorming. The typing that I'm doing here, yeah, so I I have my own bias. Okay- and this is you know, my bias is: is kind of business driven right and my bias is about you know, kind of doing product market fit to. You know, discover where there are areas of opportunities. You know to launch new initiatives that sort of thing right. So that's my bias, and so these are some things that I really believe in.

B

It's just good background knowledge to have or for you guys- and that is if you can get your hands on like the Eric rice book, Lean Startup or there's a guy named Steve Blank, who wrote this book four steps to the Epiphany and and there's a there's, a thin blue book. The entrepreneurs guide to customer validation.

B

Those are just really good background reading to have I recommend you know, even if you think, you're never going to go into product marketing and you're, never gonna like do product launches or launched initiatives. It's just really. It's! It's just really a good perspective to have on on.

B

You know how to figure out like the best fit for for new things so and by the way you know to the, to the extent that you read those books, I mean almost everything that this is the way that I think about things.

B

You know launching initiatives like this, and these books also give a formula for doing these types of surveys. Who should you talk to? Why should he talk to him? What types of data do you collect? What is the? What is the composition of the team that goes out and engages with with customers right?

B

What is that? What you know and and there's the bill- also kind of lay out a.

B

You know how markets evolve over time. Okay, so right now we're we're very much in an exploratory phase, just trying to figure out like what are the broad concepts that people even care about and over time the market becomes more mature, and so the way that you engage with people does change over time. And you know, and in these books give some guidance on how to think about that.

B

So of so that's that's one thing I recommend is, is you know if you have some time grab those books just some through it? There's a lot of blogs out there. You know, maybe you can do like a Twitter education or a blog orientation. You know what would kind of give you the best bang for the buck and.

C

Then I just added on this nd, sorry to interrupt I started my initial, like the survey questions based on this book of business model generation of a handbook of visionaries, game, changers and challenges would.

D

You would you write that down. I'd like to I'd like to I. Have a soft copy, I'll share it with you, that'd.

C

Be awesome, yeah.

D

C

Just send you that book, it's like it's, it's purely written on like hard start, a new business and what to consider in that way. What is the business? What are the key aspects, and my entire questionnaire is like kind of a based on this model of the business model generation. Yes, awesome.

B

Yeah, if you can send it to me, I'll I'll read it yes, mama I'm, a big fan of you know doing a little bit of surveys of like guidebooks and then and then you know just picking one that we all think is great and in sort of following the methodology right.

B

So that's awesome.

B

B

Okay, so my my belief is that it's also useful to come into something like this armed with a theory. Okay, and one of the theories is like like what is the market segmentation look like and you know I think there's you've got some.

B

You know your survey, questions kind of a hint at market segmentation. You know startups big companies, small companies, so I think it's good to to go into a survey like this with with theories. This is what we think the segmentation is within each with any segments. This is what we think the the roles are and within each role. This is what we think the concerns are of each role, and then you know the purpose.

B

The purpose of the market validation is is to find out if your theories are correct or not, and and so I so personally, I think it'd be good and by the way.

B

Another another question is another question that that we could ask is: is it better to go broad or narrow and and personally I think it's better to go narrow? We don't have enough. Resources is really to get to gain real insight across all possible segments. I think the best we can do with the with the time we've got is to focus in on one segment and really try and nail it. You know in one segment so.

D

B

My own bias- and you know that that's based on my goals and motivations, so so personally, I'd like to focus you know my own biases I like to focus deep on one segment and the segment I'd like to focus on is the segment that has got dollars and that is open source program offices that are attached to large enterprise and and I would even qualify it down more I would say, probably open source program offices attached to large enterprise that have got a dedicated staff of 10 or more.

B

You know something like that, because you know if, if you have an operation like that, they've got they've got budgets that are well above a million dollars, and then you can have some really interesting discussions in my opinion.

B

B

So those are just ideas for discussion that I'll toss out there and mostly I'm, just really excited that that you're working on this Vinod I'd like to support you and whatever weight you know, yeah. It's.

C

For you yeah also that like it, since we are doing this Emmy somehow, if we can like connected or get the feedback from the survey for the value group will be also helpful like. So, if any questions comes in the mind we can incorporate in the survey, we can add it yeah.

B

B

I've got a run real quick. What should be our next steps on this.

C

Going one more iteration, also yeah, then the goal is to find out the key persons to approach for this. Having.

B

A

About no for the IRB approval, it's okay to send them an early draft right, yeah.

C

A

Will still revise it? Yes,.

C

That what my plan is I'll filter and formatted 2d as a like, proper questionnaire and will submit it by Monday for final approval, then I'll revise it yeah.

A

And filling out that table at the bottom I think that would be very helpful for you to have clarity on all the questions. Yes,.

C

Yeah people this was like okay, a proper guidance for me how to go about it and how to analyze it and get the feedback. Oh.

A

B

Have a notes in it send that book to me all right: mail, you, okay, awesome, right, I'll, read it and then it'd take pretty quick, read yeah, that's awesome and then I'll probably send you just some ideas sometime sometime next week and then we can re-engage in a week's time again. Oh great! Okay, thank you.

E