CHAOSS Value Working Group, 17 Nov 2022

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From YouTube: CHAOSS OSPO Working Group Meeting November 17, 2022

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Links to minutes from this meeting are on https://chaoss.community/participate.

A

Care that all right- okay, I.

B

Got it and Elizabeth kicked me out, but we're recording.

A

Okay, yeah, so that part is done, uh I think I'll. Maybe uh every week I like before a meeting I'll just send a reminder. So our school group is that fine with everyone yeah.

C

A

Sense, okay, yeah, so we.

C

Are good you can maybe like don't, show the whole preview in the ospo slack Channel, okay, yeah I'll, just it's like this big yeah.

A

I realized that after posting, it I was like should I add it. I I was like for the first time let it go yeah.

D

A

Next meetings, I'll just put a small reminder: yeah.

D

A

E

Yeah and Anna's Anna's suggestion like Anna's post, is what got me here like.

D

E

Morning and I think tapping her to do and end up because, like she's really good at the the other reminders, yeah so kind of.

A

E

A

E

Pay attention to that yep.

A

Okay, I'll coordinate with her and ask her to do it like a day before the meeting, so that people have his.

E

Day of is actually I think actually because you're, like oh okay in an hour I, have to like click on this link like actually having the zoom like having the zoom Link in her.

A

E

Reminders, I, don't know, maybe that's how lazy I am at the moment, but it's like.

C

What's up gamer.

A

D

You, how do you get to see you all hi.

E

Alyssa Hi good to see you long time, no see wait. Is it no? Maybe I have seen you but I. Don't know it's good to see you.

A

Okay, so second item on the agenda is uh uh Clarity. On the mission statement, we developed a mission statement and we focused on the four areas. So I was not sure whether other two areas are we going to cover or not like 0.3 and 0.4 was the main concern.

C

Is this: what is this, what you want me to bring up.

A

Here, yes, yes, thank you man, yes, so, like uh so point, three is still fine, but I'm I was not sure uh bringing 0.4 as a part of the mission statement. How do we capture stories from people and share it with others? Sure.

C

um Part of me like when I was kind of working on the readme earlier today. I wondered if, if we're going to be attracting folks from ospo's and other people can talk to like how much we ask those folks to do metrics development work versus.

D

Just because that's a little bit of.

C

A tedious job, sometimes you.

B

D

What I mean just like putting.

A

Together the Google Doc and then.

C

The different headings, and all that kind of stuff and same with metrics models, those are also can be a little bit genius. So I'm wondering if we would actually like lose people I mean we can. We can do that kind of work but yeah if our meetings are focused on that that may not be of primary interest. Yep.

A

Yeah so uh so maybe we, if we get the like uh I'm fine, even if people come here and share the their pain points or the things that they are looking or share the ideas that they are looking, so that we can even work offline and yes,.

C

A

Them, okay: this is what we have come up based on your feedback and, let's, what do you think on it? Giving a review is way better than just writing an entire metric for uh for them that few.

C

A

Us can do offline and share it with everyone.

C

Ruth, did you have a comment too.

F

Yeah sorry I'm just joining in um the way we like I, think having people also contribute to the flow of the work would also be beneficial because, like for the to-do group we have, although we have like separate work days, we have days where we do. We call them work days where people come together and work on like different tasks, and then we also have like um you know the osmology sessions.

F

Then we also have there's this where we have like discussions on the different from people from different regions, um so I would say for people that I need to do group. um They are also used to working like like for the work day. They also used to working on so I think it's also beneficial to help people work on the metrics as well, because it makes them part of the process. What.

C

Does it work, can you describe a work day? What does that look like yeah.

F

Yeah, so in work days, usually we come like there. Maybe we have like tax to do like a newsletter. We come together. People take like okay I'm going to work on the newsletter today, I'm going to work on this discussion, so we share the work and everybody just goes silent and everyone's working or what they're doing, and if there are any questions, people ask okay, I'm, having difficulty doing this, so there's also something called the work day where people get to work on stuff, so I think.

E

F

Would also be helpful to have people have the meetings where we also work on the metrics two.

E

I I think they're really useful in the work days um and they're kind of like very unstructured I wonder if you could join one um because people, you know people essentially break out into rooms and work on certain okay.

C

E

Projects yeah, are they like, and it's.

C

To a meeting or.

E

Is it uh specifically a to-do work day and I think it's two hours, maybe even three hours and it's just like open space but you're like all gonna, come together. So if you're working on.

C

A project with others.

E

C

Just on a Tuesday, we.

E

Have a two hour.

C

E

It's like work together, okay, you know, and it's blocked out in your calendar and it's like you know, I was working on a project and we would we would arrange our like. You know, work meetings. You know around the workplace, okay,.

C

And so then the rooms are like you're, the group that wants to work on espology you're, the group that wants to work on fitness.

E

Center, whatever okay.

C

Whatever else it might be, and.

E

C

Go into your respective rooms and your work: okay, okay, I mean, would it be possible to are they regularly scheduled.

E

Yeah and I wonder if you can have a regular metrics. That's.

C

What I was just wondering, yeah.

E

I, don't know who exactly organizes them, but there's an America one and uh um a pack one and.

C

E

Know that Dwayne leaves uh the America one. Okay.

C

um Yeah, that's I did not know about those, so thank you for that.

E

Yeah yeah I like them a lot. It's a good idea. Okay,.

A

Maybe that that is the plan. I was thinking like okay. We can combine these two together and just hop in over there and work there.

C

I like that yeah, if we did like work days in the to do group yep, if we could work with Dwayne and then we use this time to really talk about like again points.

B

Areas of need, if there's any small.

C

Like detail, work that needs to be done, we could, you know at least do action items here. Yeah.

C

um So Ruth or Alyssa are they? Is it like once a month or is it once a week? Is it do you.

E

Know I guess once a month, do you recall.

F

Ruth yeah I think it's once a month like um so the upper region um has their own work. The apoc and EMA I think that's the one I've fallen and then the um yeah has their own region. I. Think it's once a month. Let me just cross check my calendar.

C

Okay actually I like that, because then we could do that once a month to actually work on metrics and then we would have this twice a month to kind of strategize and talk about metrics or metrics models that we want to bring together. So, okay.

A

C

I like that too, because as chaos and to do like now that we're part of the associates program like it's nice.

D

To have some of the work occurring.

C

To do a group and some of the work occurring here, I like that partnership, so that's cool!

C

Okay! Thank you.

A

D

A

Then this is helpful but, like uh I don't know I'm. My fourth point is still not address. I feel like no.

C

I'm sorry, yes, I I took that away. Yep.

A

So so should that be a part of mission at this point because I'm not sure, are we going to uh share the stories or those things I don't know.

C

So are you thinking about like how we identify the yes, the needs of I suppose and things like that? Yep.

E

C

I mean I guess part of me was always like I hope we can do that in this meeting. Okay.

A

C

We can articulate what those are, at least at a high level. You know what I mean so like we could create metrics templates that we could bring to the workday now that that's potentially part of the equation, all right.

B

C

A chaos cast makes a ton of sense. Okay, you know, or more than.

D

C

C

B

At Twitter, space.

C

At all, be relevant here.

F

You mean to share the work or um to understand how so um there's this I know I'm trying to remember. We have to work these apps to do group and there's this part where we also have conversations trying to remember what it's called because I know usually on the work day, we don't have conversations, but on the other day we have like conversations around all suppose I'm trying to remember.

A

C

A

One of the things that.

C

I, you know have kind of found is um how do we capture stories from people.

D

C

C

Yeah I guess it's like: do we want a formal way of doing this? One.

A

One of the thing I was thinking is: uh we should like, maybe form a group that and start meeting people from the hospital to learn their pen points or talking to them, especially like maybe 15-20 minutes interview or something like that: okay yeah, the way we did this di survey. Similarly I'm thinking of doing that uh survey with ospo folks and I'm I'm happy to draft a survey that we can look at it, and then we can reach out to the hospital folks, one by one and start learning. Their painful points has.

C

This been done in the to-do group at all, about trying to like reach out to hospital members to really just kind of say what are the metrics? What are the metrics models.

E

I mean I, think people reach out to each other informally I've, never seen anything.

C

Okay, formally.

E

But I I do feel like it's a space where one could do that like.

B

E

It wouldn't be unusual for, for any of us to reach out to each other. Okay, um also, GitHub, I, don't know what um I don't know, what slack channels you have on the um to do slack, but there's a GitHub wish list, slash Channel, where some of the GitHub people send it on, and people are like. It would be great if GitHub did this for us, both um okay yeah, it's kind of like a inverse of the pain points right be like it'd, be great. If we were because you.

C

Know a metrics wish list. You could see this yeah yeah.

E

um It so it could be. It could be interesting to see what people would love to see in terms or in terms of metrics.

E

But I don't know if there's a metrics Channel already and I haven't I'm, not aware. Is there one.

C

E

C

Signing up I, don't think I saw anything like.

B

That yeah I think I think that's one of the things that is a core value for the meetups that the to-do group has regionally right now that people don't necessarily know where to start to have a conversation about the metrics that they're using or how they're using them. But a lot of the conversations that I was in when we were in Stockholm really kind of addressed. This issue, where you know Hospital folks, seem to share and be able to ask questions openly when they're face to face it's a more difficult thing to pull off I.

B

Think like when you're talking to one person, it's not impossible, but I think we have to like the way that it could be done well, I think would involve a conversation that maybe lasted an hour and got edited down to like 15 minutes um and that's a you know.

B

It's going to be a it'll, be a good deal of work to do that, editing uh more so than having the conversation, but I think that would be the that would be a higher value more likely to be consumed um thing in my in my experience so like a.

C

Like a focus group is that.

B

I'm thinking I'm thinking, like um you know, we, you know chaos, Hospital, talk or aspo to do. You know metric metric model talks.

D

um Like an extension of the podcast.

B

I would view it as separate from the podcast I would view it, because it would need to incorporate video and the sharing of screens. So people could illustrate what they're doing I. Think. Understanding, metrics and metrics models is really not possible with an audio, only approach.

E

I think something to consider and I, don't know, Ruth that this is your background, but, like I, feel like there are much there's much more um like this. There's, usually much more consideration about how to be public for the I suppose, so some people can't even participate in a slack Channel because of the of their. You know, company rules and regulations, and- and so their conversation happens, on GitHub instead and that's why Anna like does the repeat of the astrology questions? That's why we always talk about Chatham house rules in our in our meeting yeah.

B

I think the conversations would have to be um conceptual um talking about things that are important and then maybe not even the person um being interviewed, sharing something like that, but the host sharing something like that to to avoid that situation and that's where I think that the the editing was is what would make it interesting and useful without violating those you know, actual guidelines that constrain people and that's for that same reason, I think.

B

It's why the conversations uh at a at an event you know at these face-to-face events is where a lot of this conversation is happening because they, you know putting something on the Internet. That's recorded, does pose those risks, I think Alyssa, I think you're right.

E

Yeah, plus, you have to get a bunch of approval, ENT participate.

B

E

The conversations often.

C

We've been chatting some of these down yep um the one thing that I did add I know we have to. We have to end just in two minutes, or at least Vernon and I have to go in two minutes, but um I think this might be important too messaging about what chaos provides to to do.

C

Slash ospo books like if you engage with us, if you're in the to-do group- and you spend time talking to us like what are we gonna? What are we doing for you? So I mean a lot of what I think we can provide is is documenting the conversation we document it through metrics. We document it through metrics models. We have a one more process to do that and.

E

C

Think we can actually provide some, not in all cases, but some preliminary looks at what these deployments would look like yep, um so, like the chaos project, isn't necessarily there to provide the to do. Group Solutions around metrics we're trying to capture and document the conversation, so we can carry it forward in a structured way.

C

um So I think the nice thing about that is like we're, trying to also represent the to the two group and the hospital folks that we're trying to provide a service to to the participants in the to do group, not just like blasting them with here are things that you need to do, and then we just like like we're just like pushing things on on I, suppose and then kind of washing our hands and saying you know we did our part.

C

um So maybe we could make that clear, too I'm trying to think about just how to capture stories and share them with others like we can capture the stories if we're like. We just want to listen so that we can document you.

A

C

Not that we want to listen so that we can like critique you, we want to listen, so we can learn kind of thing right.

E

It'd be great to get documentation for why metrics are important.

C

E

For an Osco, okay.

E

I'm, like I, know, we talk about like um like getting started, but it's like how to get started with metrics. You know like because.

E

C

E

Think there there is.

D

C

um I think one of the guides, you know the to-do guides I think one of them garagi would know too. Like mentions, like Gamora lab I, think it might mention.

D

Auger, like it actually.

C

It kind of goes in that direction. We may want to revisit that guide and just see what it looks like do. You know what I'm talking about Garrick.

D

Yeah I know which guide you're talking about it's. uh It's a good primer on metrics for osbo, okay,.

C

D

Read it in another year or so either yeah.

C

I, have it's been a long time, so maybe maybe to your point- Alyssa like there may be some work, that's already done and we could just kind of revisit that.

C

Okay, I I do have to run yeah.