CHAOSS Weekly Hangout, 3 Jun 2020

Previous Meeting Next Meeting

⏯

youtube image

►

From YouTube: CHAOSS.Asia.Pacific.Community.June.3.2020

Description

CHAOSS.Asia.Pacific.Community.June.3.2020

A

All right welcome to the um june 3rd meeting of the asia pacific chaos community call I just pasted the minutes and the notes for this meeting into the slack chat. I want to also just take a minute here at the very beginning to ask our partners in the asia pacific region if they have specific questions or uh things that they want to address in this meeting, so that I can share that or make that part of our agenda king. I know you've been quite active and frank.

A

Do you have either of you have anything that you want to put on the agenda today.

B

uh Hi hi hi, I'm king. uh I have one one slide to share.

C

B

Okay, thank you, okay, so share it to you and.

A

A

So let me um I believe I have to in this process, make you a co-host.

B

No, no, no! No! I can share it, not using hostname.

A

Oh okay: well I made you a co-host so that if you wish to you can use uh zoom to share okay. I don't actually know how else you would or I could. If you put a link in, I can bring it up.

A

B

Will share the.

A

Slide: okay, I will stop during the minutes. You should be able to should be able to share the slide.

B

A

Maybe I think uh you have certain screen sharing.

B

Yeah, yes, yeah, okay! Okay! Thank you! Thank you. So this is uh our uh our open source project named openola. You can find this on the gt. Okay, so the.

A

Can you please, can you paste the giddy link for us and I can include that in the minutes.

B

Okay, let me show you okay, this. This is the.

A

Yeah copy and if you copy and paste that link in the chat, then I can make it part of the minutes.

A

Okay, so I didn't my story: disrupt.

C

Your proposal, but I know this is the okay. This is the.

B

C

B

Sorry, okay, this is uh this is a open, ola home page. The blog is in here, but it's in chinese.

A

We have actually put some budget aside for translation services, and um some of that can be um I'm sure, applied to translating yeah yeah um this information. So it's this blog link that you posted in the chat that I should add.

A

Okay and if you have a link for the slides when you're done. That would be great, go ahead and continue with the slides. Sorry.

B

Okay, that's okay! Thank you. So this is the way how what do we think about the government governor team to think about how to garner the uh project, how to govern the community? So this is uh what does openstack community operate, so you can see it. This is the open source project and this is the open source community and we have four aspects.

B

One is a technical, economic, ecology. Okay, this is details of the technical ecology. This.

A

B

A user ecology because the user executive can use the open source. Okay: this is the partner ecology, so we want to partner ecological, build collaborative with us uh to build the open source project right.

D

This is contributor.

B

Ecology, so it's included enterprise, individual complete contributor and the universities, students and other developers, blah blah blah. So this.

A

B

Image, so we we divided into four aspects, so this is details to explain data, so this open source community operates strategies. This is open last strategy, so the gaza open source project rely on the community server of the open uh of operations actually carried for out for the users, computers, technology, technology and the partners.

B

So this is for aspect, and this is our operations goals, focus on the open source project, create a popular community that people are willing to use, contribute and actually promote. I think this is a lot of the a lot of open source projects, so the the the same goes is here and okay. This is the four first box in this picture.

B

A

B

A

This um I would hawaii is: is it how do I pronounce the company name? Hawaii?

A

Oh, wait. Yeah.

B

A

You um is: is this something that so this is this huawei's perspective, or is this the perspective that you are working to communicate in general about open source? In other words, is this a slide that you're using to explain open source and what it is inside huawei, or is this a slide that you're also using to communicate how to how open source operates? More broadly, I think yeah.

B

This is uh okay. This is a. We want to show us how we up in this project in open, ola project we how to uh cooperate with our uh partner and our customers. Yeah.

A

B

Inside the hallway.

A

B

Okay, thank you. So this is first slide. Okay, this is that's. That's picture you just say in chinese picture, so this is a letter house. The base is the project operations, health data. All of this is from this is data we can slide, we can get gathered and we divide the last into four aspects like this: people's organizations, technology and the business uh okay. This is the details I I have translated.

B

C

B

English, you can know.

C

B

Okay, this is our high level goals here is yeah, so this is how we want to matrix the framework, the open or last project. You know.

E

B

Yeah so and uh we we have two and we have two goals. We don't have consideration very clear clearly, so the uh one is the community's mandatory evolutions model. We want to measure yeah and the other is a project health assessment model yeah. We must. We will deeply deeply to search how we can build this model for our for our projects in open, ola community and, if that's a success, successful we will share it to the chaos.

A

B

So do you have any suggestion for us? Yes,.

A

So I think the from a community maturity, evaluation model perspective and a community health model perspective. How do you distinguish those two goals? I I think they are about communicating for different to different audiences for different purposes, uh and I would I would maybe guess that the community maturity evaluation model is one that would be used prior to a firm, engaging with an open source project to determine if it's a worthwhile investment and the project health assessment model to be used more for ongoing assessment of projects you're already engaged in.

A

Is that a fair or is that? Is that what you mean by those two different models, or am? I am I wrong in my guess?.

B

Yeah so first we want to project the health, the assemble model, to to matrix our our project we wanted to. uh We want to use it to improve our project and very so vulnerabilities. We will not fix it. For example, we want to improve it and this one this this one is the project you know, and this one.

A

Is the community's.

B

Operator operator, so I think it's we don't have the standard, how the communities is the operators very good? So we don't. We only have only only can do the materials models to evolution, I would actually the audited community community.

B

So I think this is will be the uh standard for us to marry the project, and this is maybe a model about the metroid about the community. So it's hard. We just discuss it for a long time and read the loudhouse attractor. So in the you know, in the web, yeah.

A

Some professionals.

B

Write, for example, the netherlands, guys writes the letter tags. So uh how to metric is a software model, so we must to change it to the open source community and change it to the project. Health, open source project, health, and so we want to send the principal find the final principle to support our our motto.

B

Do you get this? Yes,.

E

So I think, let me let me explain it a different way. Make sure I understand, I think so so huawei has this open source project that they're trying to make improvements to, and so I think these are the two ways that they're gonna measure, whether or not they're successful, so the first one's more um is the project. You know becoming more becoming more mature over time and how do they measure that and so that's the maturity evaluation model and then the second one is project health.

E

So that's, how are they improving the project as a whole and building community around it, and how do you measure success around that is that is that right, king.

B

Yeah yeah yeah exactly yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Don't forget.

A

Thank you don happy to help.

B

A

She's happy she's don is.

B

Happy to help and her.

A

Her comprehension of what you were saying is much more clear than mine.

E

Yes, that's what it's? What community managers do we translate between people.

A

That's excellent. Thank you one one so from a um is, is this to to my understanding? Is this thinking about a single open source project or are? Is it thinking about a set of open source projects?

A

Sorry is this: are you thinking just kind of asking a clarifying question from don's question? Are you evaluating a collection or group of open source projects, or are you principally concerned with one open source project.

B

We want to principal one open source practice: that's the last one choice: option: okay, yeah.

C

Okay, so thank you.

A

One question I have, and that comes from discussions in the different metric groups in the chaos community is one thing that we often have to do is account for the context of a particular project.

A

In other words, there is not a co, so if you're working with one project, you will likely identify a set of metrics that are important for that project.

A

When you think about other projects, there may be a different set of metrics that are of more central concern when evaluating health and I'm so I think for a. I don't see that specifically represented here, and so I wanted to ask about it and if it's important in a longer view.

B

Yeah, I agree with you: it's it's a different project. We have different metrics, for example, the os project operating system projects, a lot of them stable, stable, is and, for example, the other ai project is very harsh, so the community takes mo much a lot of people contribute in the ai project. I think it's a. We will have different standards and a different strategy to matrix it yeah.

A

Is is there an interest in um some discussion about how we would translate some of the things or how we would map, maybe as a better word, some of the items under people organization, technology, business and operations, how those might be mapped to existing chaos metrics or if existing chaos metrics do not exist, uh proposed chaos metrics.

A

So do you understand that john? Is that am I asking that in a way that's useful, yeah, yeah.

C

And I get it yeah.

A

Okay, okay is that is that something that chaos community? Is that something? Is it a dialogue or a conversation that that you would want to have as part of this call to to break down each of these discrete items and and see how they may map to chaos? Metrics.

B

Yeah afterwards, we have some idea and some metrics. We with strategy is upstream of three first and the chaos community is our. You know the up upstream community.

A

B

A

B

So, okay, thank you, so I will stop sharing the screen.

A

Yes, if, if possible, I think it would be helpful if these slides are shareable um yeah, because then we could. We could start conversations in a working in working groups around the mapping of these metrics and we, I don't think don. We've created an asia-pacific working group and I don't know if that would be called for, but at least the task of helping to manage, where some helping to map where some of these things may go in the upstream of the chaos project might be useful. What what does everyone think.

E

Oh, but I think we should probably do that in the regular working groups, because the metric definitions aren't different for asia, like the the.

A

Definitions for the metrics should be the same.

E

We just need to get them in the into the chaos project. I think.

A

Right so through the.

E

The existing working groups.

A

Yeah, I okay, I I agree, should there be a, I guess, I'm just thinking like when I look at this slide.

A

My first instinct is to take each discrete item and put it in a spreadsheet and try to map it to a chaos.

A

Metric is: is that possibly wrong.

A

Okay, in other words,.

E

I don't know I'm.

A

Trying to think about how to I mean, I think, sharing these slides within each working group might be useful and asking them each working group to consider the map might be useful.

B

Maybe yeah you, you can say that maybe the business is the similar with our value, what group and how to people, maybe in the common and evolution organization, maybe in the evolutionary.

A

B

Think yeah yeah, I think so yeah.

A

And the evolution work group does meet on this channel today, right after this call just for.

B

A

Everyone's information, thank you very much, king. I don't have other questions. Are there other questions from anyone else.

B

No anybody else.

B

Okay so say I now stop sharing the.

E

B

My screen- okay, yes, okay,.

A

And I will share my screen and I can't remember this is gonna. Allow me to do this.

A

So I wanted to just um share for the community. I suspect everyone is already aware of of the existence of this organization on github and when it comes to finding the working groups, because there there are, there are two, I would say three types of repositories under chaos. One kind is the kind related to software.

A

Another kind is the kind related to just the internal workings of chaos itself, like the website and introductory information, and the third- and I think, most important type of repository is the working group repositories, and each of these is prefixed with the word wg dash, and so uh when we want to. If you want to look at the the set of repositories that exists inside of chaos that are part of the working groups where the metrics get defined.

A

um I think this this list may prove useful, because sometimes I think it's difficult to navigate exactly where um everything is. Does that make sense, especially for newcomers? King, I'm sure you're already aware of this yeah, um but.

A

uh Okay, what did I just do? Okay, all right, so this is.

A

A

uh Search for wg dash and then it'll show you that list of working groups.

A

So if you're looking for um developed metrics um that that or metrics that are in process um that exists- and I think you're also already familiar with the metrics that we've released already and so the difference- the differences in the working groups, we are in a fairly steady, constant state of development and each six months or so we release a set of new metrics, and these are the this page is the one page where the released metrics um exists um in our and that any any questions about that or anything.

A

Anyone would like to add to that.

D

Well, hi hi um I've seen that you have some discussions on the mailing list about the uh matrix translation project. Yes and um well. I just want to say that I will be so honored to help with translating it into chinese.

A

Oh, that is, that is a very generous offer. um What is while I'm sharing my screen, I can't actually see who's talking. Can you.

D

uh It's so yeah.

B

So you'd better introduce yourself yeah.

D

Well, yeah, I'm so yeah, uh I'm a master! I'm a postgraduate student in east china, normal eastern, normal china, university.

A

Oh okay, yeah eastern north china university actually has historically had a pretty strong partnership with the university of missouri, where I.

D

A

Yeah one of my former phd students is from there juan lizing and he's now a professor at texas, tech, so um very small world, um and I guess jaya is how you say your name yeah. Okay, if uh yeah.

D

A

You want to share contact information with me um or you don't need to share it in the public document, but uh I'll just say to share contact information. um You can contact me at goggins at missouri.edu and just uh put chaos translation in the subject.

A

E

uh If you wanted to, it might be better to post it to the chaos mailing list. Oh.

A

Okay agreed agreed.

D

A

D

Thinking about uh sending a message on the mailing list after the um conference.

A

That is a much better suggestion.

E

Yeah, because that's where all of the conversations are happening about transformation, so that will get you automatically connected to the other people who are talking about doing translation. That's exactly.

D

So have you guys uh start a new channel for the translation um because I haven't seen the new discussions uh recently.

E

D

E

Thought they were on the main, killing uh main chaos mailing list. But let.

A

E

I can check.

A

It could be on the board mailing list, because the way that the translation is being discussed is matt german pray and I have some grant funds that we're going to allocate to help pay for the cost of translation.

A

um Whatever that may be, uh and of course, volunteer translators are are even better, they help extend what we have um don do you know, do you know where that discussion's been? I I don't keep careful track of which list things are on myself.

E

No uh I'm trying to look no, it is. It is on the main mailing list.

E

Yeah, just on the chaos, the main chaos mailing list: okay, okay, thank you. um It started with a conversation from nick vidal who's started the um started. The discussion to talk about portuguese translations.

D

A

E

And that was looks like that. Discussion kicked off on the 25th of may so a couple of weeks ago.

A

And I will share.

D

Around last week, yeah.

A

Just in case anyone doesn't have it. This is our primary mailing list.

F

Hey, can I just ask a question yeah, so uh my name is tarun and I'm from india, I'm studying in amrita university, I'm an undergraduate student. I am going through this matrix translation project.

F

Are you guys trying to only convert the metrics to international.

A

F

To the other language.

A

I I think our first I don't know don, do you have any insight on? I mean, of course, obviously we're not translating them to english.

F

Do you have any precedence orders? First, we have to convert into french and then we have to convert into chains.

A

um So I think the question is about conversion to both french and chinese. um I think don, I don't I don't. I haven't been following that this particular discussion. I don't know how closely you have.

E

I I have not been following that discussion other than I know that there are people talking about translation, that's as far as I've gotten into it. I just posted the uh um the archive mailing list archive link. So if you, if you click on that, you should be able to see the threads about translation, you can see what what's been discussed so far and then, if you want to post the mailing list and add to that, that would be great.

A

I agree, and I think to the to I think, whoever asked the question about which languages I think I know that asian languages like chinese are important because uh it's they are fundamentally different in their syntax and structure.

A

I I think anyone any translation to any language is probably ultimate any language where there's interest in chaos might be the ultimate goal, but that might be a very large goal. So some of our initial translation work is likely going to focus where there are people interested in having those translations, and certainly chinese, is chinese and portuguese, I know have been discussed.

A

I think somebody suggested french as well am I.

A

Right, I don't know if I'm losing connection somebody started to talk don. Can you still hear me.

E

Yeah, I can still hear you.

A

Okay, I thought somebody started to talk, but they may have a bad connection.

E

It might just background noise.

A

uh That could be it too. um Perhaps I will make uh a note, at least of the.

E

uh Yeah there has been some interest in french um in addition to portuguese.

A

French chinese and I I have a rudimentary understanding that there are multiple chinese dialects like a lot of chinese dialects. So I'm uh trusting our partners in asia in china to know which dialect dialect or dialects would be the most useful for translation.

D

A

I'm sorry, whoever.

E

Yeah yeah we're having a hard time hearing you.

E

I think there's a bad connection.

A

Yeah um well we'll leave, I think chinese more broadly, and if king or jaja jaya can um suggest, if there's more than one dialect uh that translation should occur for um to.

A

You know make that part of the notes or share it with the mailing list. In the translation, discussion.

B

Okay, okay, so okay agreements, yeah.

A

I didn't hear: did you hear what judgement said um king beyond just that she's willing to help with chinese translation.

B

B

Okay, I think a network showing us network is not very good. I think it's.

C

Yes, okay, some problem! Is it okay um I'll? Why don't we follow up with her on the mailing list for them on the mailing.

A

A

Are there other comments or thoughts about translation.

F

I have a suggestion regarding the language solution.

A

F

Can we add deutsche.

A

F

B

Yeah uh I've seen, I think I see the millionaires george link. He wants to translate into gemini. I see them at least he said here.

F

Actually, I learnt a little bit of german in my college.

A

F

So I want to try it out.

A

And certainly if, if you, if there is a german speaker who wishes to do that trends or can help with that translation, that's always good, I think introduce. I don't know if that language has been introduced in the email discussion, but certainly do subscribe to the chaos mailing list and perhaps look at the archive that dawn posted in the minutes here and get involved in the emailing list. In the mailing list. Discussion regarding language.

A

Any other thoughts regarding translation before we press forward.

A

Okay, I wanted to make a note that uh the next metrics release is on august 1st, and so we back up the dates of that because we have a review period. So we, the working groups, intend to release new metrics for comments on june 24th of 2020.

A

And what that means is the working groups will decide uh which metrics are ready for community discussion to be released and, although it may seem as though there is a short time between now and then three weeks is a lot of time when it comes to releasing metrics, because the deadlines often force working groups to decide which metrics they're going to finish, and I think through perhaps opening an issue within a working group or through discussion on a mailing list.

A

There is an opportunity to express a desire for certain metrics to be developed at the in the working groups at this at this time.

A

So I would encourage anyone who wants to to uh have a cert certain metric uh considered and distributed with the release, that's upcoming um and then, when something's released, the tools uh typically work to make sure that those are already included in the tools set if they are not already um so that I'm just pointing out that there is this release period coming up. So what um king? Do? You think it's useful for me to explain the release process in this session.

B

uh Okay, uh we're translating chinese no.

A

um Yes, yes, go ahead.

B

B

B

Any question okay see, go ahead.

A

Okay, um so I king, so the the I don't know, did you explain the whole cycle or in chinese yeah? Okay, okay, so yeah the just for other people, uh essentially the we released the metrics for review on june 24th.

A

There is an issue created in each working group, repository related to each candidate metric for release and in that issue, for each candidate metric, there is an opportunity to make a comment about what is included or not included in in the metric. In other words, that comment period is intended to reshape or redefine uh candidate metrics, for release, to be more clear and more closely aligned with the community's intent, and then they will be complete for release on july 24th and produced for the website and pdf toward the end of july.

A

um Do you want that to take a minute to explain that in chinese.

B

uh I I think it's uh I think everybody can understand.

D

B

A

All right we're good okay um and then I just want to point people to the participate link. That is where you can go to sign up for the mailing lists and uh find the working group information that I highlighted earlier, uh specifically the information related to which working groups are working on which metrics, I think another useful sub link in there for understanding when the working groups meet.

A

Sometimes for me, it's easier to just see the google calendar, so I will share the google calendar uh working group meeting times because then, um if you wish to you, can what you can, if you hit this add to google calendar, you essentially can add the chaos calendar as one of the calendars- and I don't know- is: google- are google calendars used in china, king.

B

Yeah, I don't use the google calendars. Sorry.

A

B

A

Is there a shared calendar for china that we should uh maintain a map of these meeting times on platform that we might consider um sort of mirroring the chaos meeting times too? That would be easier to access or more commonly used in china.

B

So I subscribe as a mini list and I go to this picture this website. I subscribed it into my mini list in my email. uh I I can't use it this this google calendar- because maybe I don't know other guys, because my my company, I use- I use the laptop to use using our company so also I can't use the google doc you know so.

E

B

Never examined.

A

Would it be helpful if I exported the calendar into a standard format like a dot ics file? Would you be able to then share the meeting time information uh in a way that is accessible in china.

B

Yes, I think it's a work, yeah, okay,.

A

I'm just gonna give myself an action item.

B

B

Thank you. Thank you.

A

uh I'll share to the mailing list, and that way um you, I assume you can access the mailing list because since we just talked about it.

A

King sorry, um uh I I will share the the export of the google calendar to the mailing list. If, if you want me to share it directly with you, um uh you can just uh maybe I don't share your email in the chat.

B

Okay, okay, gotcha. Thank you.

A

That way, you don't have to filter through everything on the mailing list. If it's not.

B

Perfect yeah, my email is in the I got it. I got it.

A

B

So I will email to you and the door and the message to center the slides. It's just a share.

A

uh I think if you just share the slide, if it's okay, if well, I guess yes email the slides to uh to to me since matt isn't here today and I will then share them to. Is it okay, if I share them publicly on a google presentation.

B

A

King is it: is it allowed for me to share the slides that you share with me on google, okay, yeah, no problem? Okay, all right, so I will share that. Do.

E

You think, though, the one point, though, because I uh didn't say confidential at the bottom king.

A

E

Your slides, if you could remove that confidential, the note at the bottom that it's confidential, because we can't post it if it says that it's huawei confidential, no.

B

I think, but when.

E

B

Share it in open uh share it with open allow, and I think it's good, I think it's okay, okay, okay, yeah.

A

Okay, so that you just okay, that um I'm sure him and I'm just gonna, make a note that it is acceptable to share them with the notation of I'm not going to spell huawei right.

B

Yeah yeah, we have this stock discussing our inside our company. We we suggest we we want to share the slides to chaos community to public. So don't I answer your question. It's okay, no problem.

A

I think john is done is right that it would be um more, it would be.

A

uh People may be more comfortable sharing them if the confidential notation is removed, but if, if you send them to me with that notation, I will direct people to the minutes where you indicated that it was okay to share them with the chaos community.

E

Yeah, it would just be nice if you could remove the word confidential from the bottom of the slides before you send them to us. That would be helpful.

A

Yes, I think I think there is there are.

E

Otherwise, people might be concerned that we're sharing something that is confidential.

A

Yes, I also, I believe, the density of lawyers in the united states and europe uh is higher than it may be in china, which is where the concern comes from.

A

Are there are there any other topics that anyone wants to raise? We like to end these minutes at 10 minutes prior to the top of the hour, we're about three minutes away from that. If there's other topics that anyone wishes to discuss, or should we say.

A

A

King, do you think it's okay to say goodbye.

B

I think sorry, I will ask her okay, ask.

B

Okay, nobody have questions.

A

Okay, um thank you, everyone for participating in this discussion. um The meeting minutes uh are available in the link that we shared. um I don't know. If we have these decks, I may find a way to create a link, or you know what I'll I'll share. I will share this on the chaos.

A

I will share a link to these minutes on the chaos mailing list as well, and that way everyone will have the link, although uh I should probably output them as a pdf as well since you're not able to, um or maybe my open document format since you're, not able to read google docs at in some inside some companies.

A

It might be helpful to share a share them in that format as well. So uh thank you very much everyone. um That concludes today's meeting of the asia pacific working group. I think it was a really great discussion. Thank you, king, for helping to facilitate thank you don for keeping me on track.

A

I will talk to you all soon.

E

Thanks everybody thanks: everybody.