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From YouTube: CHAOSS Weekly Community Call 3-16-21
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A
Record
now
we
are
today
is
march
16th
and
you
have
reached
the
community
call
for
chaos.
So
we're
super
happy
that
you're
here
it's
gonna
be
a
good
day.
I
can
feel
it.
My
daughter
is
ready
to
go
into
labor
at
any
moment,
so
I
might
have
to
dash
out
get
her
to
the
hospital,
but
I
can't
go
in
that
really
sucks,
but
anyway,
that's
an
aside,
so
I
hope
everyone's
doing
good.
We
have
some
new
faces
on
the
call
today,
so
welcome.
A
Welcome
we're
really
happy
to
see
you
and
or
your
avatars
that
are
static,
but
we
still
are
happy
that
you're
here
anyway.
Just
so,
you
know,
if
anyone
who's
new
here,
absolutely
totally
fine
keep
your
camera
off.
We
do
not
care
at
all.
If
you
would
like
to
communicate
with
us,
you
can
use
the
chat.
We
try
to
incorporate
that
into
the
the
flow
of
the
meetings,
so
feel
free
to
utilize.
A
That
if
you'd
rather
do
that
yeah
and
if
you
have
questions,
don't
hesitate
to
just
you
know,
raise
your
hand
or
speak
up
or
do
whatever
you
need
to
get
our
attention
and
break
the
flow.
So
we
don't
care
at
all
super
informal,
we're
just
happy
to
see
you
if
you
have
not
put
your
name
in
the
minutes.
We
will
drop
that
link
in
here
one
more
time
in
the
chat.
Please
feel
free
to
do
so.
A
Just
to
tell
everybody
how
you're
doing
and
and
what's
going
on
in
your
world
today
looks
like
we
have
some
exciting
things
happening,
yeah
all
right,
okay,
so
let's
go
right
into
the
agenda.
We
in
the
dei
working
group.
A
We
were
talking
about
chaos
con
and
it's
come
up
a
couple
times,
and
obviously
this
year
is
weird,
as
we
all
know,
just
like
last
year
was
weird
still
being
weird,
so,
but
hopefully
by
osseu,
which
is
at
the
end
of
september,
beginning
of
october
in
dublin,
they're
hoping
to
have
in-person
meetings,
and
if
so,
there
might
be
a
chance
that
we
can
kind
of
connect
to
that
a
day
either
before
or
after.
A
But
if
that
doesn't
work
out,
we
do
have
some
interest
in
maybe
doing
a
chaos
con
light,
which
is
an
idea
that
came
up
again
in
the
dei
working
group,
and
that
would
be
a
virtual
thing.
Not
a
big
deal,
not
a
big
formal,
long,
drawn-out
thing,
maybe
just
a
couple
of
hours
with
some
quick
lightning
talks,
just
to
kind
of
give
people
a
chance
to
interact
with
us
and
get
to
know,
chaos
and
what
we're
all
about
and
what
we
do.
A
So
we
just
thought
we
would
bring
it
to
the
community
meeting
and
just
see
what
y'all
think
about
that
just
as
kind
of
like
a
maybe
a
backup
or
or
even
in
addition
to
doing
something
more
formal
and
drawn
out
at
ossu,
and
then
we
were
thinking
maybe
over
the
summer,
even
or
something
like
that
or
early
fall,
so
just
wanted
to
float
that
around
to
see
what
people
thought
about
that.
I
know
chaos.
A
B
And
I
think
part
of
this
is
you
know,
thinking
about
the
fact
that
oss
eu
might
be
in
person
slash
virtual,
I
think
they're
being
a
little
bit
optimistic,
but
but
maybe-
and
I
will
admit
I
have
sort
of
changed
my
position
on
like
doing
some
kind
of
chaos
on,
because
initially
I
said
that
we
should
we
just
shouldn't.
Do
it,
we
should
just
wait
until
we
can
do
it
in
person
again,
but
you
know
a
year
later
and
we're
still
not
doing
in-person
conferences.
B
So
maybe
maybe
we
we
do
something,
but
one
of
the
things
we
talked
about
in
the
dei
working
group
is
you
know
if
we
did
it
at
osseu?
Let's,
let's
assume
that
it
actually
does
happen
in
person
and
we
do
it
there.
Then
we
would
want
to
tie
it
to
the
event.
However,
if
that
doesn't
happen
and
osseu
ends
up
being
virtual,
I
think
the
last
thing
we
need
is
one
more
day
of
a
virtual
conference
like
I
I
just
don't.
B
I
don't
agree
with
tagging
a
bunch
of
things
onto
a
virtual
conference,
because
the
whole
point
of
doing
that
is
because
you
have
people
in
one
physical
location
and
that's
not
true
without
a
virtual
conference.
So
this
makes
it
really
hard
to
plan.
Because
do
we
plan
it
as
if
it's
going
to
be,
you
know
face-to-face
or
do
we
plan
it
as
if
it's
going
to
be
virtual
and
not
try
to
tie
it
to
osseu
or
do
we
or
do
we
not
do
anything
at
all.
C
I
can
tell
you,
let
me
tell
you,
I'm
responsible
for
the
budget,
like
my
signature,
for
a
conference
in
january
2022
and
my
colleagues
and
I
we're
going
for
it
we're
just
it's.
It's
happening
and
nothing's
gonna
stop
us
and
if
we
have
to
cancel
it
we'll
deal
with
those
contractual
obligations,
one
way
or
another,
but
yeah
we
feel
our
the
communist
community.
I'm
in
academically
really
feels
it's
it's
time
january.
Will
it
will
be
time,
but
we
could
be
wrong.
D
One
question
I
would
guess
to
elizabeth
evan
dawn
because
I'm
sure
you've
talked
about
the
z
dei
working
group
if
to
happen
in
person,
and
I
heard
through
the
grapevine
that
if
dublin
or
ireland
isn't
safe
they're
looking
at
backup
options
too,
to
make
sure
that
there's
a
high
probability
is
going
to
happen
in
person
like
whether
it's
in
in
person
or
not.
D
You
know,
I
don't
think,
there's
any
harm
in
organizing
a
ddi
like
a
recession,
whether
it's
virgin
person
just
plan
for
it
and
then,
if
it
happens
in
person
it
becomes.
You
know
part
of
the
kiosk
on
day.
If
not,
then
you
know
we'll
you
know
we
can
have
an
event
separately
from
from
the
virtual
event.
D
That's
just
my
thinking
and
I
I
agree
like
we've
gone
way
too
long
without
any
event,
and
it's
just
what
I'm
worried
about
those
events
that
are
not
doing
anything
even
virtually
you
become
like
invisible
after
a
while.
So
I
I
I'm
sort
of
you
know
my
you
know,
you
know
I
should
just
plan
for
something
for
two
hours.
You
know
and
then
we'll
deal
with
like
whether
this
happens
in
person
or
we
do
sort
of
a
off.
D
You
know
like
a
virtual
event
if
it
doesn't,
if
ossu
doesn't
happen
in
person,
but
sorry
I
kind
of
rambled
on
but.
B
C
Two
questions:
first,
I
think
there's
no
harm
in
having
two
plans
and
planning
towards
two
ends
like
it
doesn't
cost
a
lot
really,
and
so
we
can
plan
for
the
in
person
and
we
can
also
be
softly
planning
for
not
in
person.
Does
anyone
know
where
the
alternate
sites
are
that
are
being
they're,
not
knowing.
D
They're,
I
mean
you
know
I
assume
it'll
be
in
europe,
but
they're.
Not.
I
didn't
necessarily
ask
but
they're
looking
at.
If
ireland
vaccination
is
not
going
well.
First
for,
for
example,
then
they're
going
to
alternate
options
but
they're
really
trying
to
shoot
for
in-person
advance
that
their
limit.
Could
I
mean
at
least
capacity
is
going
to
look
different,
but
that's
what
I've
heard.
B
And
the
other
thing
we
talked
about
in
the
dn
working
group
is
that
we
can
probably
compress
the
schedule
for
organizing
this,
especially
if
we
did
something
a
little
bit
shorter.
So
we
don't
necessarily
have
to
have
the
cfp
open
for
a
really
long
time
and
we
don't
necessarily
we
can.
We
could
probably
pull
together
a
chaos
con
a
month
or
a
month
and
a
half
before
before
an
event,
especially.
B
E
C
F
So
I
would,
I
would
be
happy
to
kind
of
like
hedge
towards
an
in-person
event,
I'm
with
don.
I
think
that
I
am
too
right.
We
could
probably
organize,
even
if
it's
just
a
half
day
prior
or
in
conjunction
with
oss
eu,
if
it
happens-
and
you
know
what
if
it
doesn't
happen.
F
B
G
Go
ahead,
kevin
I
was
going
to
say.
One
thing
to
keep
in
mind
is
even
though,
even
though
people
are
going
to
be
more
and
more
comfortable
getting
together
in
groups,
I
think
international
travel
is
going
to
kind
of
take
some
time
to
get
back
up.
So
a
chaos
con
in
europe
or
a
chaos
kind
of
event
in
europe
is
probably
going
to
have
really
really
low
turnout
from
people
in
the
states
currently,
and
probably
vice
versa.
C
C
I
think
I
think
if
appropriate
beverages
are
provided
a
half
day
program
and
a
half
day
of
just
sitting
around,
and
it's
not
like
we'd
be
talking
about
nothing.
We
would
have
things
to
talk
about,
but
we
don't
have
to
structure
it.
I
think
people
will
be
so
glad
to
see
each
other
and
talk
to
each
other
in
person
and
enjoy
an
adult
beverage
if
they're
so
inclined
that
that
reserve
the
space
for
a
day,
half
day
program,
do
that.
A
C
D
Yeah
I
mean
this-
I
mean
obviously
like
don
and
that
both
of
you
said
like
we,
we
got
time
like
we
don't
start
any
of
the
cfp.
Any
process
like
today
we
got.
We
got
a
few
more
months
before
we
do
that.
But
when
we
do
start
we
can,
we
can
start
to
start
off
like
they
they'll
be
two-pack
there'll
be
a
half-day
option.
J
D
C
C
F
So
my
recommendation,
based
on
this,
is
we
kind
of
plan
for
an
in-person
event
to
dawn's
point
too.
I
mean
I
look
at
this
call
alone
and
there's
22
people
on
this
call.
So
we
even
if
it's
a
half
day,
we
can
still
do
a
cfp.
I
think
there's
plenty
of
people
who
would
be
happy
to
talk
if
it
happens
in
person.
You
know
what
I
mean,
so
I
don't
think
it
would
be
hard
honestly
to
have
a
half
day
worth
of
talks.
If
that's
where
we
were
at.
K
As
some
extra
comment
here,
maybe
maybe
what
may
happen
at
the
end
is
that
some
people
I
mean
if
there
is
any
person,
even
maybe
there
are
some
people
joining
the
discussion
there
in
person,
but
maybe
there
are
others
that
are
not
joining
for
any
reason.
Finally,
maybe
they
are
not
vaccinated.
I
don't
know
so
thinking
about
setting
up
some
hybrid
model,
maybe
maybe
something
to
have
in
mind
as
well
like,
for
instance,
maybe
within
europe,
it's
easier
to
fly
than
maybe
going
overseas.
K
B
A
A
A
Let's
go
ahead
and
move
on,
so
we
have
a
few
other
things,
not
a
ton,
but
we
have
a
few
someone
dropped
in
here,
four
big
sustainability
questions.
If
I
had
to
guess,
I
would
guess
that
was
matt
g.
That
was
that.
F
In
there
stunningly
so
vicky,
who,
I
think
many
of
you
know
had
put
a
nice,
I
don't
know
post
up.
So
if
you
click
on
the
link,
I
just
I
thought
it
was
really
nice
out
of
questions
that
communities
can
ask
themselves
so
where's
the
project.
Now,
where
does
the
project
want
to
be?
F
F
C
A
I've
kind
of
had
on
my
wish
list,
to-do
list
to
take
a
survey
of
the
a
pulse
survey
of
the
community
to
see
kind
of
where
people
stand
and
like
how
they
feel
and
how
the
community
is
is
working
for
them
and
what
they
think
we
could
do
to
improve,
and
I
think
this
fits
in
very
nicely
to
that
kind
of
idea.
That's
been
ruminating
in
the
back
of
my
head
matt.
F
I
hadn't
thought
about
that.
I
just
put
the
link
in
this
google
doc,
and
that
was
the
end
of
it
for
me
at
the
moment.
So,
but
when
you
were
talking,
I
was
actually
putting
a
note
in
there
in
the
minutes
that
listening
to
talk
that
was
thinking.
Maybe
the
pulse
survey
could
kind
of
be
related
to
these
questions.
That
might
be
a
really
nice
frame.
F
K
A
Yeah,
what
people
think
about
this
and
like
what
their
personal
feelings
and
thoughts
are
on
how
they
envision
the
project,
because
I
think
we
get
some
really
interesting
answers
to
that
so
yeah.
I
might
give
myself
an
action
item
to
to
kind
of
flush
something
out
if,
if
everyone's
cool
with
that,
if
no
one
thinks
that
that's
a
terrible
horrible
idea.
A
A
Yes,
100
do
we
know
when
that
next
meeting
is
up
sometimes,
so
I
would.
F
I
Oh
hi,
nicole,
hello,
I
am
on.
I
will
I'll
talk
I'll
touch
base
with
georg
about
that.
A
Great
moving
along,
we
have
in
here
the
google
summer
of
code
update
for
those
who
are
interested.
I
think
some
some
on
this
call
might
be
interested
in
this
topic,
so
we
put
a
link
in
to
where
the
ideas
are
being
kept
and
we
have
ideas
for
more
lab
auger
the
chaos
metrics
release
and
also
the
chaos
website
itself.
A
So,
if
any
of
those
general
topics
interest,
you
go,
take
a
look
at
those
ideas
and
then
I
also
linked
here
how
we
select
students
and
what
the
next
steps
are,
so
that
they
know
for
sure
what
they're
supposed
to
be
doing.
So
you
can
take
a
look
at
that
as
well.
Does
anyone
have
comments
on
this
or
questions?
I
think
there's
also
been
updates
on
the
mailing
list
and
I
put
some
stuff
in
the
newsletter
too.
A
F
I
know
the
hope
when
georg
organizes
a
lot
of
this
is
that
for
those
who
have
an
interest
in
participating
in
google
summer
of
code,
that
you
either
post
your
questions
to
the
mailing
list
or
to
an
issue
in
the
governance
document.
Just
because
then
we
can
make
sure
the
answer
is
seen
by
everybody,
because
other
people
might
have
similar
questions
too.
F
I'm
not
sure
what
you
mean
by
micro
tasks,
so
for
each
one
of
the
potential
projects
right.
We
have
micro
tasks
that
the
oh.
F
E
C
F
F
So,
if
you're
interested
in
the
project
take
a
look
at
the
open
ideas,
take
a
look
at
the
micro
tasks
issue,
a
pull
request
against
the
issue
or
against
your
the
interest,
markdown
file
and
then
based
on
the
accomplishment
of
the
microtasks
and
the
potential
students
who
would
participate.
C
A
F
Yeah,
that's
me
again.
So
sorry,
so
basically
google's
season
of
docs
is
is
obviously
a
different
program
than
wait.
Summer
of
code
did.
A
Know
so.
F
The
so
this
is
they're
both
obviously
a
little
bit
different
this
year,
so
so
this
year,
the
way
that
payments
work
for
season
of
docs
is
the
season
of
docs
organization
is
pays
the
community,
and
then
the
community
pays.
The
person
who
got
selected
see
what
I'm
saying
so,
unlike
summer
of
code
summer
of
code
program,
pays
the
students
directly,
so
we
have
to
figure
out
how
to
just
logistically
get
the
money
from
season
of
docs
right
now.
F
F
F
A
If
I
recall
correctly,
when
we
were
looking
at
the
website
migration,
we
had
the
same
question:
if
we
could
just
pay
the
new
host
from
our
community
bridge
account,
and
the
answer
was
no,
you
cannot
no.
F
I
mean
one
of
the
other
thoughts
is
that
I
think
there
are
other,
so
we
like
the
the
community
bridge
thing,
because
it's
open
and
transparent
on
our
finances.
So,
for
example,
if
somebody
contributes
save
to
chaos
con
to
support
it
right,
we
can
see
that
money
in
there.
We
see
it
and
then,
like
you,
know,
ray
you're
on
that
the
committee
that
approves
things
right
so
as
approvals
get
made
to
pay
somebody
back
for
work
like
they
actually
submit
receipts,
it's
all
transparent,
it's
open
and
transparent.
D
Know
I
mean
there
are
other
platforms
out
there
that
I
mean
actually
georg
may
know
of
like
couple
of
tools
that
that
provide
those
services.
I
I
don't
know
what
the
costs
are.
Yeah
I
mean
matt.
I
guess,
like
you
know,
yumi
and
georg,
since
I
mean,
are
you
still
like
yeah
helping
with
finances
yeah,
so
we
can
start
an
email
thread
or
we
can
jump
on
a
call
like.
D
Maybe
that's
the
easiest
way
to
do
it
like
or
I
mean
or
ask
lf,
because
I
I
doubt
we're
the
only
project
that
are
doing
season
of
docs
at
the
lf
like
I
don't
know
how
other
projects
are
handling
it.
I
mean
the
answer
might
be
they're,
not
using
community
bridge,
so
everything
that
it
works,
but
we
might
have
to
find
an
alternative
like
a
platform
to
just
to
manage
this
money.
Or
maybe
we
manage
all
of
our
finances
through
that,
but
they're,
fundraising.
D
J
Have
a
tennis
way
here,
but
you
know
the
organizers
of
that
program,
so
I
can
ask
what
other
projects
or
foundations
are
using
just
to
see
if
there's
one
platform
or
tool
that
seems
to
be
popular
and
functional
in
this
case.
So
I'm
happy
to
ask,
I
might
not
find
anything,
but
I'm
assuming
your
problem
now.
I'd
love
to
see
others
are
solving
it
and
they
might
have
a
view
of
that
because
they
have
to
integrate
with
those
tools.
A
Okay,
well,
we
have
about
18
minutes
left.
I
can
do
math,
I'm
good
at
it.
So
what
else
is
on
our
minds?
What
do
we
want
to
talk
about?
We
have
time.
We
never
have
time
what
the
heck.
F
G
C
L
Yeah
I
bought
a
domain
so
that
we
could
host
some
some
of
the
other
work
that
we're
doing
on
it
for
github
kind
of
kind
of
website
thing
that
we're
working
on
and
chaos.org
was
nine
dollars,
which
is
pretty
cool,
and
I
I
just
think
that
that's
that's
right
now
redirecting
to
chaos
community.
So
it's
not
a
big
deal
right
now.
I
think
we're
talking
about
some
other
kind
of
hosting.
G
G
E
A
F
So,
just
with
respect
to
the
website
moving
kevin,
it's
still
just
chaos.community,
and
that
is
all
good
and
then
brian
warner
is
all
set
to
kind
of
just
redirect
chaos.community
to
whatever
the
ip
address
is
that
we
set
up
at
our
new
hosting
service
so
just
step
one,
that's
step
one.
So.
G
Okay,
in
regards
to
a
similar
domain
name
that
is
being
used
by
the
organization
for
a
different
purpose.
I
would
say
that
is
probably
not
best
practice
yep.
So,
let's
again,
what's.
G
C
F
F
G
F
G
And
I
can
I
can
if
sean
is
going
to
do
that,
I'm
I'm
happy
to
be
on
the
call
with
him
or
help
help,
coordinate
or
just
be
part
of
yeah.
C
F
C
C
F
A
Okay,
there
is
a
question
in
the
chat
that
says
how
was
chaos
community
created.
Does
it
have
an
interesting
story
and
we
have
our
about
page,
but
I
think
matt
g
would
probably
he's
such
a
good
storyteller.
I
will
let
him
know.
F
F
K
E
G
We
got
another
one,
I
do
remember.
I
remember
a
discussion
in
the
in
the
in
the
documents
where
multiple
names
were
brought
up
and
I
I
believe
we
may
have
even
been
using
an
acronym
machine
to
come
up
with
some
clever
names.
I.
E
Don't
remember
that
yeah.
F
G
F
F
L
To
know
so
how
did
the
chaos
community
itself
come
to
be?
I
think
there
was
something
about
a
conference
and
writing
names
on
a
board.
A
F
A
F
Basically,
what
it
was
was
so
sean-
and
I
were
at
a
conference
in
in
copenhagen,
and
we
were
talking
about
corporate
engagement
with
open
source
communities,
so
just
kind
of
the
challenge
that
corporations.
F
Bring
with
respect
to
open
source
and
and
what
that
means
for
open
source
and
arfon
smith
was
sitting
at
the
table.
So
do
any
of
you
know.
Arfan
arfon
was
at
github
at
the
time
and
obviously
github
at
the
time
was
very
interested
in
how
corporations
were
starting
to
kind
of
exist
on
the
github
platform.
F
So
our
funds
that
we
at
github
are
also
very
interested
in
in
this
as
well,
and
so
he
connected
us
with
folks
at
the
sloan
foundation,
so
the
alfred
sloan
foundation
to
kind
of
just
explore
this
idea,
what
community
health
means
and
what
the
impact
is
for
organizations,
not
just
corporate
organizations
but
really
any
organization,
that's
starting
to
get
involved
in
in
open
source.
And
a
lot
of
you
know
this
right,
because
organizations
participating
in
open
sources
is
kind
of
a
thing.
F
So
we
went
to
the
to
the
collab
summit
or
leadership
summit
or
member
summit,
whatever
it's
called
at
the
current
state
of
affairs,
and
we
so
this
is
during
that
first
year.
We're
still
not
happening
well,
but
you
all
remember
this
conference
right.
I
mean
the
one
that's
been
at
for
the
last
couple
years,
and
so
there
was
a
birds
of
a
feather
board
and
georg
link
said
we
should
put
open
source
community
health
and
sustainability
on
the
board
to
see
if
anybody
has
an
interest.
F
So
we
weren't
on
the
schedule
at
all,
and
I
was
like
there's
nobody's
going
to
come.
I
don't
want
to
do
it
so
nobody's
nobody's
going
to
attend
this
session.
This
sounds
like
sounds
like
just
a
lot
of
work.
I
don't
want
to
do
it
so
gary
was
like
do
it?
Do
it
do
it?
So
I
was
like
fine,
let's
put
it
on
the
board,
and
it
was
down
in
the
basement
of
this.
This
hotel
in
valley
and
probably
45
people
showed
up
that
had
an
expressed
interest
in
better
understanding,
open
source
community
health.
F
I
was
totally
stunned.
I
had
even
told
the
organ
like
just
bring
your
laptop
because
we're
just
gonna
work
on
a
paper
we're
just
gonna.
It's
just
gonna,
be
you
and
me
sitting
there
totally
doing
totally
doing
nothing.
Well.
Well,
nobody
appears
and
so
sure
enough.
45
people
came.
We
never
even
made
it
through
introductions
of
every
40
people,
whatever
we
never
even
made
it
through
introductions.
It
was
absolutely
fantastic.
F
We
were
able
to
reach
back
out
to
josh
at
sloan
and
say
this
was
a
huge
success
and
we
at
that
meeting
too.
We
talked
with
kate
stewart
and
mike
dolan
as
well
and
really
from
that
point
forward.
F
We
just
had
a
project
called
open
source,
community
health
or
something
like
that,
and
that
was
really
the
the
beginnings
of
it
and
I
will
also
say
daniel.
You
can
fill
in
the
parts
with
patergia
and
gremore
lab,
because
there
was
also
kind
of
a
parallel
discussion
occurring
at
the
same
time,
if
I'm
not
mistaken,.
K
Yeah
yeah
from
from
victoria.
From
that
perspective,
we
were
kind
of
so
our
customers
were
mostly
open
source
foundations.
We
were
kind
of
have
foundations
with
that
specific
question
in
mind:
like
hey,
what
does
health
mean,
sustainability,
etc,
etc,
and
we
were
already
providing
metrics
to
them,
so
it
was
like
some.
We
were
having
some
conversation
about
hey
what,
if
we
put
all
of
these
people
together,
thinking
about
this
topic
and
so
on,
and
of
course
there
are
other
companies
and
people,
and
so
on,
involved
here
and
there
and
yeah.
K
E
K
Try
to
find
them
yeah
we
were
both
enrolling
in
our
email
should
be
around.
I
need
to
look
for
that.
I
I
don't
remember
yeah
and
then
so
we
we
had.
I
think
our
first
remark
on
from
grimoire
lab
in
that
year
in
2017,
in
enforcement
or
the
previous
one,
and
then
and
then
we
when,
based
on
these
conversations,
we
thought
about
well
donating
the
project,
even
when
this
was
already
open
source
to
the
linux
foundation.
So
then
it
was
viteria
with
grimoire
lab
or
I
don't
overwatch
donated
from
the
very
beginning
right.
K
C
K
C
K
And
and
then
red
hat
with
prospector
the
native
thesis
open
source
as
well
and
gtm
by
the
university
of
victoria
with
daniel
hermann,
so
those
were
kind
of
the
four
projects
in
the
self
or
side
of
things.
Yeah.