CHAOSS Weekly Hangout, 24 Sep 2019

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From YouTube: CHAOSS.Community.September.24.2019

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CHAOSS.Community.September.24.2019

A

No thanks for the reminder and.

B

Why does that was super profound and it.

C

On the recording go ahead and.

D

B

D

It was actually it was, it was actually, it was super profound, initiate repeated. What dawn said is. Is that, instead of saying reference, implementation examples uses three different implementation headings that we should just have I, think one heading that says implementations and what that is, can vary by the specific metric.

D

You know, whatever the most clear explanation of the metric is whether it's a nobler corridor, Gomorrah animal impatient for both for an auger implementation or all three, whatever, whatever helps make. What the metric is more clear in a concrete way should be under component ation I think, is what.

E

Here's kind of the two four six that I just wanted to pull them out of one of the evolution metrics. So that's in the chat. Yes, oh yeah, I'll put it in the regular.

E

So I just put it in the Google Doc. That's the current structure. Let's say evolution was using, so this is for the Titan, be I, suppose template.

D

And it's this: it's these these two, these reference implementation and not implementations that are sometimes fusing, I think.

E

Angle, P like that, could be reduced to one for sure. Well and, and even sometimes like we have visualizations, which yeah they're just made they just they could show up again as sample implementations and I. Think.

D

Filters are filters are important because that specifications I think could be under implementation like if we had one one implementation heading. There could be a subheadings in there for visualizations and I think that would be more clear because filters are actually something, and you guys others to me, tell me if I'm not and I wish it was super-scary plate. Well, we we had this discussion about whether a filter wanted to call a filter or a parameter way back when and filters are essentially the expected method inputs.

D

The fact, essentially, that you would be able to provide a tool to get a subset of data showing that metric right, so common filters are repository date range things like that and I think it's that's very stuff. It's very different than filters, and so I mean then visualization, so I'm I wasn't there for the discussion of merging those headings.

E

Oh I I, don't know that anybody was a okay and they are. We all were all it's one of those things that I just organically came about, so I mean I. If I I.

D

Feel like I'm talking a lot of us colleges, but I think filters should stand on its own. If I was to make a change, I would say filters can skimp on its own, because it is a very specific thing, with a very specific purpose and visualizations and implementations could be a heading or even just implementations, and then it could have some headings that were things like product implementations or not product known, like basically grimore lab otter example.

D

Visualization could be some heading under implementations, then serve to clarify and concretely what the metric looks like when it's done and and I think filters.

D

It ends up being a sudden ending when the filters in utilization anyway, in the ways that we want to do any implementation of the metric to be able to winnow it down, and it's typically at least by repository in date, whatever.

E

What are some other thoughts on this to me even.

F

I mean can filters and visualizations just go under okay as a simple and under implementations. That's what it sounds like a.

D

Filter, ultimately, the filter becomes an implementation in the cases where we have an implementation. Yet the filter is effectively a specification for the ways that you should be able to narrow the data set.

D

So sometimes it's not implemented, but implementation did. You suggest a moment, a filter, great no.

F

I was just saying like under under implementations like we have the sub sub sections or visualizations, and another subsection for filters.

D

You could yeah I wouldn't be opposed to that I think I think I want it to remain clear that felt like it built. The filter list is intended is like if you're gonna claim that you're implementing the automatic that you're gonna implement but filters that are enumerated definition, that's the only reason, maybe I'm reluctant to take filters and put it on orientation, but that's totally pinned antic and I. Think it's probably just fine to do that. Okay,.

G

On my part, I think, to a degree that kind of comes back, that kind of comes back to what Matt was asking early on. So like how much information do we really need to put in these documents so filters? Filters are important for the augur implementation, but is it important for the metrics definition?

G

So can we create another document so.

D

Actually filters, I, don't think, are important. Filters are important or I sent I think essentially, instructing anyone implements the metric on what the filters should so are you're a bit more lab Joe's Python source lab anything when it's like. We want like we don't when we agree on a filter at the discussions. I've been in generally focused on the idea that the metric isn't helpful unless you can filter the data these ways.

D

So it's more of a software requirement than the implementation.

D

Jumping back into tend ending mode. Sorry.

E

um Other people's thoughts on this.

D

I, don't know everything Kevin's mom just saying.

E

Yeah no I I had just put this out here right, I'm digging through this and in like I said. Maybe the structure stays the same, but I.

B

I mean I kind of agree with with Kevin I'm, not sure I mean if we, if we think about the chaos objective being to define the metrics and give good definitions for how we, how we calculate a certain thing or how you would gather a particular metric I'm, not sure that I mean there are always going to be loads of ways that you can filter it and they're super important to how people use them, but I'm not sure that it's really part of the definition I.

B

Don't know I could probably talked into it either way. I think.

D

That's where I am and I'm Kevin and Kevin daughter persuading me to think about it. That I think we should do that. I mean I, think about it way too, on the technical, concrete level, sometimes and so I think I'm hearing from Kevin and Don T's. They want to understand the metric, that's not as important so.

E

I can tell you just like this is purely anecdotal. There's no research behind this, but when I talk to people who take a look at the chaos metrics, you know who are kind of looking at the metrics oftentimes. It's just I was taking a look like this is the anecdotal part. I was taking a look at the metrics just to kind of see what what's available to take a look at it's not about how I would implement it.

E

It's not about where I would source the data, but it's just to help me as a person kind of get my head around. What are the things that are available to me and how might I think about those so I think the work in the working groups, like you know that whole question metric, but the focus areas- that's been extremely helpful. I hear a lot of the conversation about that, but I it usually stops them out there. When we talk about metrics and then the whole deployment implementation part of the next question.

E

So, in that case, it's really just about expressing a definition here, you're the things that's it and here's why you would use it like the objectives. Here's the description of what the metric is. I still think. Visualizations are great because here's you know, while you could take a look at this metric, meaning the implementations to air you're scratching your chin.

H

Back and forth on whether someone who wants to understand a metric and comes to it and I have no anecdotal evidence by the way I.

E

Might have an N of one, it might be a story that I'm replaying in my mind over and over again. Just so, you know, I'm.

H

Just so the way that I think about filters is that they are helping me as someone who might want to use the metric to think about how I might use it in different ways. Mm-Hmm.

F

H

Yeah I think there's value to it, but maybe we are not there yet can I am okay, open source ecosystem.

E

Can I am I'll make a proposal just kind of listening to everybody here it doesn't seem like anybody's, like completely averse, like do not touch the structure. It doesn't seem like anybody has that concern not hearing that no, but what the optimal structure might be is yet to be determined. That's kind of also what I'm hearing I don't.

D

Think anybody wants.

E

To make that campaign promise that they have the optimal structure, why don't I propose this I'll put an action item to myself because I don't know whoever whoever says these things right. If you give somebody something in front of them, then it least serves as a starting point that we can all go off of right now. Working we don't have something, but take a look at and so I'll propose a structure for the metric lay out.

E

The definition lay out based on what I'm hearing today, not just on what's in my mind, but what I'm hearing today I'll also propose in that structure. What are required headings so basically, some cardinality in this and what are optional subheadings within each of those head. Does that make sense so.

E

Like, for example, I am NOT saying this is the way it is that a required heading would be description, a required heading would be objectives and a require heading would be implementation.

E

Those would be the three required headings as an example and then underneath implementation optional. Subheadings would be filters typing. This someone.

D

What's it are you taking this up I'm just trying to it is okay minute.

E

For some reason that just.

D

The descriptions required objectives required this.

E

Is an example implementation required, so maybe I don't have to do this and then under implementation, an optional head, yeah filters would be optional. You could include them if you'd like visualization, like yeah references, maybe that's required. I, don't know optional required.

D

Yeah definitely we there was a lot of discussion about whether they call it references or resources or no.

E

Known implementations and I have a comment on known, implementations too, and then maybe yeah references, maybe as a highest level heading but optional resources, though just a.

D

Long discussion with.

D

E

We have landed on resources, so yes, something like that. So I don't know if you were all seeing this and what thank you for typing that up Gared.

H

D

Hey she says the dire resources.

E

C

H

What so, if we have the.

D

Only thing I would say about creating some headings for known and reference implementations, fine I, guess, yeah I guess we know what I know what a reference implementation is. I, don't know if everyone on the column do it. We intended it to be prior to call so sometimes like what these headings are obvious, like description and objectives other times, I, don't know that they are zhonya's, particularly frankly, all the subheadings under implementation. So we might want to provide some guidance about what's intended under.

E

Their visuals and maybe even collapse- maybe it becomes filters visualizations and known implementations period, I mean.

D

I'm, okay, with separate subheadings, I, just think I know.

E

Your good point.

D

E

Eric, did you ever come in.

H

I'm looking at the diversity and inclusion working group, because they are the only working group that uses a different template.

E

Yeah common might for some of the metrics that show up in common and.

H

So, with this new proposed template, I see an opportunity to align all the templates and what the diversity inclusion have is description objectives. Those are the same and their implementation.

H

They also have they just call it slightly different with sample strategies and four strategies and success. Metrics. Can you, as data collection,.

E

Strategies do they have that is their top level. Heading implementation, I'm, sorry I'm, not looking at it right now. It's not okay! It.

H

Can't easily be changed. Okay,.

G

B

Eric's right it could be- and this might be a good way for us to unify some of those I think this is a good idea.

H

All right, both not the template button, yep.

E

So they have strategies and success. Metrics I see okay,.

H

So data collection strategy and I'm gonna call it data collection strategy, because when we talk about strategies, that's really what we're talking about, how we collect the data and then we have success metrics, and this is where it becomes a little challenging when diversity and inclusion talks about success, metrics mm-hm- that is what a metric is for everyone else. So I mean.

H

Can you say that again, when diversity and inclusion talks about success, metrics yeah each item itself could be a metric as the level of other working groups may say: I've worked at a higher level, but anyway, that's semantics that we don't have to tease out right now. I see.

E

What you're saying, though,.

E

So then, what you're taking a look away you had proposed so then we would have four required top level headings for every metric, which is description, objective, implementation and resources period and I. Think objective to your point. Descriptions and objectives are the same. I, think they're understood the same between the working groups agreed yes, and then implementation.

E

We would have a kind of a variety of optional subheadings that could be pulled from kind of based on the nature of the working group.

H

H

E

Mm-Hmm, what do people think about this.

E

Are there thoughts on this I.

G

Like it, I think that makes the release considerably easier from from my end, anyway. Okay, it's all about.

E

G

B

G

B

It makes it more consistent for everybody else too. I think it'll make our metrics easier to easier to look at across working groups. Okay,.

H

D

Difficult to hear yeah, oh I've, been all day or just now, just now. Oh, maybe I just sort of leaned back and step away from my motto might clearer. Now: yeah, okay, sorry I was saying that I kind of like where we landed here so.

E

It yeah I was gonna, say maybe taking a little I'm. Sorry Sean go ahead and finish it I'm done well. I cut you up, then that didn't mean to do that. Sometimes I should be tough yeah. So maybe in this list, if you're looking in the Google Drive, should we make all of the things underneath implementation optional?

E

It's like in the D&I sense right. There may not be visualizations like we would just have one template.

E

Stand up saying: yeah, yeah, okay, with the intention that if you're gonna have an implementation heading, you will at least pick up one of these to kind of give a description of what that implementation is about.

C

H

E

Okay, so then another so then another comment down here is: if we have these two known implementation and reference implementation, I think we have to be particularly around known implementation. We have to be very diligent that this has actually been implemented in a tool, not that it can be implemented in a tool, but that it has been implemented. I was thinking about this I think we got a little wax, sometimes that, yes, this is something that I could produce, but it actually hasn't been produced.

E

Does that make sense the difference between can produce it and currently producing it?.

A

That makes sense.

B

Make sure I understand that so you're saying the known tool implementations would be, it has been implemented in a tool and reference implementation would be, could be implemented in a tool, but maybe hasn't been yet well.

E

This is write it down, rinse it. No! No. You got the first part right. Okay,.

B

E

The if we're gonna talk about and implementation, whether it's known or reference it has like it has to exist. We can't talk about the potential for it to exist. That's not what these implementations are about, but.

F

I mean: is there a reason why we need to distinguish it? I mean I'm, I'm, not sure. Like people I mean this is just an example right I mean whether it's really deployed in production or not I'm, not sure. If that would make a huge difference to me as a consumer. Okay,.

E

F

That's just my thought, like I mean it's great that, like you know like somebody like some communities actually deployed this, but I mean it's good to know, but I'm not going to use. It's unlikely that I'm going to use exact same implementation because my communities are and I'm using different data source or whatever the reasons right. I mean I. I. Think the key value is that hey here is sort of an example of how you could like deploy. This I mean there might be some customization needed for your community, but I, don't I.

F

Think like yeah I mean there's just a level of detail that I'm not sure if that's really needed, but I'd like to hear other people's thoughts too. But.

E

So my my thought here was on visualizations and I, hopefully am addressing. That visualizations would give somebody who comes to the metric kind of like what you're talking about just a way to kind of get their head around. What it might look like mm-hmm, you know, so it just tears a visualization from augur or looser visualization from your lab right. The the known implementation is, if you actually want to deploy this kind of, as is grimore lab. Does that for us? So that's what the known implementation is to me.

E

So the visualization is something that I could just look at quickly on the document to just kind of get my head around what this is all about, then there might be something to be said for knowing that this metric is actually deployed in all your kibble or more lab whatever it might be. What do you think yeah.

D

E

I, don't know that maybe.

F

Yeah all right or the other way we can do. I mean I mean I'm we can do like. We can just call it implementation and use a generic term and then and then, if it's, if it's, if it's known, then we can note that right, like your as here's, how it's actually implemented in Jurmala I've been, and otherwise you don't. You don't mention it, but I mean I'm okay either way, but I don't want to have like a too many categories under implementation. I guess that's. The only thing I was concerned about I know.

E

F

Not a huge concern but yeah and.

E

I do have a hard time myself. I know you English on but kind of teasing out the difference between reference implementation and bill and implementation I mean.

D

I know what was intended originally and a definition like I can write up that again. I can write up, be intended definition and could be included. This means that with the template right, like you, delete this, but here's what's men.

D

Apparently, I talk like an uber.

E

Okay, all right personally, I think the level of detail that we need is a sample visualization, that if somebody is coming to the page and just wants to get their head around, what this could look like the potential for it and then just links to the tools that have actually deployed this thing. This thing being the metric.

E

Like ., that's that's where I think we need to stop.

E

And I think that kind of addresses your point ray, which is keeping it simple: here's what it could look like. Here's the tools that do it.

E

What are some other thoughts on this.

E

Here, you're typing: what do you think I'm.

H

Filling in descriptions for each session or the template.

H

E

Okay, well all on I'll at least put together. I'll still put something together based on. Basically, it looks like I'm just gonna copy and paste, but Geragos typed and put it into a markdown, something that we can talk about next week. Maybe on the next week, is actually the the entire monthly call. So thanks everybody for the feedback on that. I did have one other things so I had reached out. If you recall, we had talked about working with an open source community to do metrics deployment.

E

Remember this so actually trying to deploy the chaos metrics as published and I'd reached out to Kate, and she was happy to have Zephyr, be part of that, and so she's connected me with folks at the Zen project as well, but I'll have to repaint them. So so the premise for those of you that don't know is we're really trying to take a look at how the metrics that we have released in version.

E

One can actually be used to generate really just even small one-page reports or a community highlighting the insights that come from the metrics.

A

E

I had one a question to add the metrics thing.

E

Mm-Hmm, so I just confirm right. So if we make a change to the template, it's just for the template going forward right version, one stays, as is correct, I'm, just confirming that we don't do anything retrospectively. I suppose that would be weird for version really.

E

F

On I'm just kidding.

B

For version two, maybe we should revamp the metrics that were released in version one into the new template say.

E

That, again, as.

B

As part of version, maybe we should revamp the metrics in version one into new into the new template and call them version 200.

E

B

It is you call it I get.

E

What you're, saying and actually I that would hopefully be a fairly straightforward exercise, but yes, yeah.

B

E

Yeah, because if we actually, if we didn't do that, then we would have a lot of we would actually have like four templates in version two or three templates.

E

Okay, why that took a lot of time. Thank you. Everybody for your feedback on that I saw somebody put chaos count on here. Oh yeah,.

F

Sorry I didn't mean to like I just went. That was just a reminder for myself: I didn't I mean Matt. If you have anything else, I mean go ahead. Oh.

E

That's that's good everybody that was super helpful. Thank you all.

F

Right yeah sorry I missed like a call for the past few weeks, I had like a crazy period of travels, but yeah I just wanted to offer my volunteer my services for Kaos con, look like people offer, like general help but happy to be on the program in committee or anything else that you guys need.

F

When I raised my hand, Thanks and somewhat related chaos. Khan like did was the table request actually submitted for false, am or like yeah.

H

F

I thought I was gonna. I was supposed to do that, but thanks thanks for taking care of that. Oh yeah, no way he's like great I was like I mean I, had like a lot of flaws and related stuff. That I had to do like, including forget, lab and like one last thing for me. Thank you.

H

F

I'll get you a Belgian beer in Brussels.

E

And I can tell you: Georg is working you're working to get the payment schedule for.

H

The car venue yeah I'm not having any luck right now with getting a response. I, don't know why.

H

Book the venue and pay it through community branch- oh, is.

F

E

F

E

Or like yeah, we just.

F

E

Get the funds out of there pay for the hotel. You know what I mean so.

F

We just yeah yeah yeah, yeah I was I mean you met and Georg I was going to send you a separate email about that, but we can take that offline. Okay,.

E

F

Sorry yeah, that was just uh quick.

E

Kevin is this: is the page up for Kaos con Europe? We have a page, yes.

G

It is okay and.

H

The next one would be to put the CFP on there.

B

All right, that's my fault, I'll work on that I like to do lists I'll, fess, up anyways yeah. That's on my to-do list. Sorry.

H

Okay, it I think we still have a little bit of time. That would be great to be doing this around the same timeline that ephram's are calling for papers yeah.

B

Exactly that's that's kind of what I was thinking so I wasn't I didn't bump it up above the other urgent things on my to-do list, but I will I will try to get to it this week.

A

Okay and I'll start sending out the sponsorship requests. This week, too, I haven't done that I haven't.

E

Really started that so we get rolling on that. Okay, great.

E

Anything else I'm chaos, Khan I, did want to Kevin I'm gonna put you on the spot. Here you had put together a calendar, a chaos calendar. Yes, is it up online.

G

Yeah it's a calendar I can share the link. I haven't shared it yet because I wanted to make sure that all of the times were right and then I was going to, though so.

E

Basically, Kevin has put together what you call it a calendar that you can it's your calendar.

E

It has the it has every event on it.

E

Can you share it? No.

G

No I'm, sorry I generally get my email through my Mac client, so I'm having to wait again for the browser to get the the share of a link. I.

E

Continue talking out sharding moment, no we're just waiting very patiently for this link.

H

Yeah no heat Kevin.

G

Well, I could share the link with you, you so technically you could share it as well. I.

E

Deleted this Oh.

H

Have a race now I see.

E

I see, while I'm going through this, showing you okay.

D

H

Okay, it's in the chat, so I'm gonna copy it over to the minutes.

E

Shawn I also put something in the chat for you. Whoa people are looking at that. You might want to send a pull request to update your logo.

D

Again, I always mumbling. That's why? Yes, that's quite outdated. I should create a poor question fix that logo. There.

G

Actually, there isn't, if she created for that currently Wow.

E

So what do people think of the calendar that Kevin said I think it's all up to date, I think it's good.

D

Yeah, it's actually a colorful. If I can add it, is it a published calendar that I can add to the list of Google calendars I which usually they are yeah.

G

Yeah, that's a that's publicly published calendar, so yeah you can grab it now. If you want yeah, cuz I, basically keep so.

E

People think about this because I know, like dawn for common, you had sent out. You know what I mean you had sent out your calendar and right to specific people. Yep.

B

Well, you still need to do that to get it on people's calendars so that people don't look over it. Adding an additional calendar to your view, doesn't actually change that so I mean.

D

I, it depends how many calendars you interview at once.

B

Yeah I mean I personally I still like to invite the people who I think are gonna attend on a regular basis. Mm-Hmm.

D

Yeah I think it's.

B

A good practice I.

D

Agree: it's been helpful for regular attendees of the working groups that I'm in and so.

G

That it that actually is still possible. We, this public calendar if I, were to give you edit rights, for example. Well, you could go in for the comet, the common metrics group meeting and add a list of invitees to it. However, the the calendar itself is still public and can be grabbed by everyone.

G

D

uh I'm just gonna share my.

E

Why are you doing that so come on we're trying to find this, like balance between being able to get these meetings on people's calendars just kind of generally mm-hmm? It's they want to, but then also kind of to your point about inviting people specifically so I.

B

Think I think it's both I mean I. Think I think that what Kevin has this fantastic- and this is a really great way for me to like see what all the meetings are in.

D

B

D

Go ahead, I just wanted to in the lower right where it says: Google Calendar, if you click that gives you the option and I've already done it, but it gives you the option of adding it to your calendar as one of the calendars that you monitor, which personally I find really helpful because, like I have calendars for my research groups and my kids and my wife, like in like ten calendar, so I kind of know what everyone's doing and having this he's clicking here and is having us being wondering little calendars, you can turn on I find great yeah.

B

It is it's super. It's super helpful and I. Do that with loads of calendars, I have like kubernetes calendars and some other things like that. But what it doesn't do is well well, it doesn't block your calendar off so me as an employee of a company if I just use this calendar. People are gonna book me in meetings right over top of these. So.

C

B

To have it separately on my calendar as an actual calendar item on whatever calendar people try to schedule me on on and that's what I try to do for other people and that's why I invite people to the to the calendar, partly so that they always remember it, but also because if, if they're invited and that's the calendar that they use for work, then people won't book meetings. Over top of the I see.

D

Yeah so like Kevin I think it would be at all to give like basically everyone on this call, or at least all the working group chairs access to invite people from this calendar, because that would solve Don's problem and take it off of your list of responsibilities. Would that solve your problem? Done I? Don't.

B

D

If so, it done it locally later so yeah.

H

What you mean because I think you're onto something yeah.

D

I'm sharing my screen again, it's only the cast calendar, but if I had edit rights on this meeting, I could then edit the list of invitees and I could invite all the people that I normally expect that normally want to be at he's working for meetings. The ones in my case are evolution and risk that that I have a set of people that I have invited to a meeting on my calendar and so giving a certain number of people of their rights to edit.

D

This lets us have the rights to invite people or in by ourselves, and then that becomes an invitation on my own calendar as well.

I

You know the way you can do it also do it to get around the issue of the being on your own calendar is at least on Google Calendar. You can like right-click and do the copy to your calendar. Your a function.

D

Which I do that has shown guidance right here, yeah just like that, so.

I

I, do a ton of that just to kind of solve for a year after dawn I'm just like I may not care about all of the meetings, but there are certain ones. I know I want to be on, and I can force those to be on my couch yeah.

B

But what that does not do is it does when that meeting time changes or when some detail changes, it does not change on your calendar so.

C

If that meeting.

B

Gets canceled or moved it's not in the right place on your calendar. That is.

I

Right, if only there was an iCal standard for things like this I know,.

B

And and so so I'm sorry I I am in a whole bunch of open-source projects with all kinds.

C

B

Calendar issues so I've just seen all of this recently but to do group has had the problem of we did give everyone right access to it, and people keep accidentally deleting it off of the wrong calendar. So they go on.

C

B

They it off their calendar and it deletes it for everybody, because they didn't realize that they were editing. The project's calendar instead of their own personal calendar I, have.

D

Done that I've done, that too meeting invites where I thought I was deleting one meeting and I. Don't.

B

I can tell you the way the way kubernetes manages this and it.

D

B

Probably overkill for for this one, but because because all the meetings for kubernetes are tied to specific special interest groups and each special interest group has its own mailing list. When you join a mailing list. You get invites to all of the meetings for that special interest. Group I recently joined the cluster life cycle special interest group and got like a bajillion meetings because they have a whole bunch of sub projects and many many meetings and those. And you get that as an invite from from some calendar.

B

And it goes on your own personal calendar at the email address that you subscribed to the mailing list with and when the sig leader cancels the meeting. It's canceled off my calendar, and so that works quite well, but they also use Google Groups for their.

G

Kubernetes manager.

B

G

You I'm sorry I was I was just gonna. Ask you that if they use Google Groups for their email list, they.

B

Do which is probably how that works, but it's also kind of overkill for a project the size, because we don't have a million special interest groups and and there's a specific URL that people are supposed to invite to the calendar, invite that puts it on the main calendar, and sometimes people forget to do that where actually I yeah I just wrote some Python to like pull things out and do like a comparison of which ones are where and we've got, we've got a bit of a mess. So it's not it's not perfect for sure. We.

B

We have a bunch of meetings that are in that are in the SIG's SIG's that yeah moles. Let me call it that are in like the main main thing, but aren't on the regular calendar that they're supposed to be on so calendars.

E

B

E

B

E

Tell me the three things to do to solve this, so.

B

I love, I, love, Kevin's, idea of having a calendar that you can put on your calendar because it's nice that I can see all of the other meetings. If there's one that I occasionally want to drop in and out of, I still think that kind of the people leading the working groups. If you have some regular attendees having it on your calendar, I think I think helps and you can invite those people or as a working group. You can decide not to do that.

B

But then it's up to each individual person to put it on their calendar and they may or may not have it and they may or may not get scheduled over. But that's that's kind of how I like to manage it and I, don't know of a better way.

H

One of the issues I can see with that is updating your calendar and the chaos calendar. If something changes mm-hmm.

B

Yeah but I mean already, we have to update our calendar and the website if something changes, so you actually need to update a second calendar. So I'll be three places. You need to update it. Although I.

I

Don't like any of these.

B

Solutions to be fair, the.

I

Google calendar somehow and just pull from that data too, on the website just to maybe cut down one but you're still you're still down to two.

G

We could just embed the calendar on the website. Yeah.

B

G

Use that as the primary on the participation page.

F

Yeah I mean I agree with Don. This is not worth wrecking our heads to automate you just about.

E

This we just embedded on the participate page tell people it's available if they liked it, when it sounded change, manage.

F

Your own calendar, that's yes, my good luck! All.

E

Right that seems fair well,.

I

I will say the only thing that groups at I/o does slightly nice in this is that if there are changes that are made on the main calendar, because they basically you're basically doing the same thing here, but they do do notifications if meeting invites, have changed. But it's not everybody's clients a little bit wonky of how it sucks that in so just just not to throw out more trolling ideas, but just throwing that out there. Okay.

E

G

I did add, I did add Shawn and Dawn as admins on the that calendar. Do you want me to remove you? Are you planning on using it or I.

B

Would say remove me because the chances of me needing to update something are not outweighed by the chances of me accidentally deleting something and.

D

I wouldn't say the same thing that your dawn story reminded me of things. I've done wrong in the past, and you don't want to trust me with something like this to.

B

Affairs someone else should have admin access, because we don't want it to be just one person yeah.

H

I think right now it's Kevin and Matt and I okay, perfect.

E

Okay, so I think Kevin I think it's making this available for sure and if people want to use it, that's great and possibly in, but embedding it on the participate page.

H

While we are talking about the participate page I noticed that we don't have, the software calls there. Yet, okay, we do.

A

H

Don't know if we want to now that we have the calendar remove all of our different working groups and software calls and everything just have the calendar as the source of information on where to find the meeting minutes how to join or if we still want to maintain it. And then we should add the software under us. I know: Green Moore Lappe has its own menu list that is currently not on the participant, page and I believe augur has a slack channel that is currently not on anywhere on our website. I.

D

Would I would probably operation create a mailing list.

E

Personally, I, like the look of this page I, think it gives a nice description of each one of the working groups. I, don't.

B

Want to miss the description, because this is this- is a more accessible way for people outside of the project to figure out which working they want to participate in that a calendar would calendars. Just you know.

E

B

E

So I'd add the grimoire lab and the augur meetings to this yeah.

E

H

Shawn, if you see a need for a mailing list for an augur separate mailing list, then we can create one through the Linux Foundation, but just saying that they're more, like mailing list, is not being used. So I don't know. If they're it really is a need. It's a it's a.

D

Linux Foundation mailing list: that's not being used.

E

Is is your slack channel open Sean, it's a public eye, I.

D

Have to even remember what it is: okay, yes, I believe it is open for public and right now, I have to I believe it's nice just.

E

Information make available in an augur box. That's all yeah.

D

E

Your main I think that's the main way that augur communicates this via slack yeah.

D

There's no reason to change that yeah and he's somewhere I have a I'll, find that okay add it to the poor request associated with the augur. We are a change we are at the top of the our.

E

Party lunch lunch time so next next week is the monthly call just FYI. So if you have agenda items that you want to bring up in particular just send them my way. Okay and then I'd also just like to say that just one last thing Georg has been elected as co-chair generationally totally and the two new board members are Daniel and Nicole regulations. Yes, all.

B

Super exciting news: that's.

E

Really great news, so all right.

I

That's a mess, I'm good Yeah right.