CHAOSS Weekly Hangout, 16 Apr 2019

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CHAOSS.Community.April.16.2019

A

But we are now recording okay.

B

We're recording everybody Garrett put the minutes in the link to the minutes in the chat. Thank you should I have access to that I.

B

Just a few things that I wanted to bring up, one was one of my action items from last week was to get the chaos D&I group integrated or involved with google season of Docs, and we.

C

B

That so do we have the link handy, Garrick.

A

A

Posted in the document, okay,.

B

Thank you, so it's posted in the document and I will also put it in the chat.

B

So this is a slightly different than some Summer of Code yeah Google Docs yeah. So what, in the way that this is this one structured? So the Summer of Code is actually the the chaos project is an organization and this one the organization is actually the Linux Foundation, okay and then D&I is you know one of the one of the potential places where people could contribute. You know, so they had a couple other projects, I love projects as well.

B

So if you follow the link you'll to see the two things that we put in there as candidates for the season of Docs.

B

So good to go on that actually I have no idea err. Do you have any idea how much they pay I.

A

Haven't checked in a while the fact they were talking about launching this program without pay in the first year. Okay, is this the first year? Yes, this did not exist before now. Yeah.

D

I remember hearing the announcement. I didn't understand that they were going to do any season attacks without paid. Oh, that seems like odd, seems odd to me too. What are they expecting to happen?.

A

B

Can't answer that one so I mean so anyway: that's all good to go so thanks, Gary for some feedback and what's done I didn't want to talk to anybody. Have any questions on that. One No.

D

Although too promising, although I'm not sure how that's yeah.

B

I guess more to come, as it kind of rolls out will see the google Summer of Code I guess, while we're here, we are currently just everybody knows we're currently in the process of requesting slots. Just keep in mind that you do have google Summer of Code applicants on this call so we're currently in the phase of identifying potential students for the projects and then also requesting the number of slots.

B

So that's just so everybody knows that's where we're at at the moment and I think this ends relatively soon. I think it's towards the end of April and the request actually closes. Is that not right Garak, like my checker of dates, yeah.

A

It's the 22nd, I think, okay,.

B

So just actually I think we've already put in our slot requests, so I think we're actually done at this point. Yep.

A

And then the next thing is they will assign the slots within the two or three days and then at the beginning of May. As when we have selected our candidate and google announces all the projects at the same time, and then the students who applied quote know, but they got accepted or not. Okay, sounds.

B

Good, so thanks for everybody's help on kind of pushing that through I did have something that I'd like to share with folks here, I'm gonna put it in the chat, so this last Monday the DNI work group put together what I thought was a really great table. So thanks I, don't know if you did that on the fly or how you produced this thing, but it was a great way of identifying candidate metrics for the release coming up later this summer, and so, if you take a look at the spreadsheet, we put this together here.

A

The table is I, put it together and then be filled it out in the DNI working group. Okay,.

B

So if you notice across the column a you can tell me if I'm reading, that's right, Eric but.

C

Across column,.

B

A or down column a are the focus areas which, at this point, should resonate with any of the other working group members here and then within those focus areas, are the identified metrics and you can kind of see that they have that table at the top. Red basically means a no go and green means looks like a good candidate and then just some colors in between as potential candidates towards the release. Yeah I, really like that structure.

B

A lot I do too it's very clear and then I'm, you know working group guessing or the are the ones and zeroes votes. Yes,.

A

Those were votes on determining the colors okay.

B

Look just kind of everybody's individual take on the status of a particular metric. Is that right, yeah.

A

And above where you have two votes like if what it means plus one you think the metric is a good quality already. We should include it zero. You think we should include it, but it needs work and the minus one. If you think we should not focus on this for this release. Okay,.

B

That's great I mean I I assume it went well. I think you were able to fill out this table within the course of one meeting that right, yeah.

A

I was like 15 minutes so.

B

Based on that, I would encourage folks in value or folks in risk to adopt something similar. It doesn't have to be like this. This meeting, but I think this is just a really nice way of thinking through the metrics. This is an encouragement, not a requirement. That's all you're.

A

Also invited to use the same document just create a new sheet, and then you have multiple sheets or each book include one. That's.

B

A good idea: actually it's a nice way, it's kind of centralizing things will have to retitle the sheet, but yeah.

B

Comments on this I.

C

Think it's awesome. Yeah.

B

All right, why don't we just do that or just put action items maybe to the work groups Carrig in the minutes just to create tabs on this sheet.

B

And actually, this will be super helpful to be honest if everybody's in the same spot, so that when kevin is actually updating the website, this'll be a this'll, be a great first place to look on what those are. Perhaps we could even have a column of like yes done or something like that or.

C

Some way to indicate.

B

That, yes, this is the metric that needs to be on there. Cuz I think at this point, green, yellow, blue and red, just kind of indicate the potential potential or interest I think it indicates potential.

D

Isn't the same thing there's a potential that is, it tends to be implemented, there's a potential for how utility.

B

The way I would read it is the diversity and access diversity, access tickets. I know they were sitting there as a real, strong potential to be effective part of that release. Oh okay, alright, alright, and so maybe we had just another color like I, don't know a bright orange. That means this one put this in the release. You know yeah.

D

You know you know it would be a helpful addition, just something like this. If I'm thinking about implementing it is some kind of column that indicates complexity, level technically and complexly levels socially. So, for example, if did family friendliness yeah.

C

D

Probably that technically complex, but there might be some I guess, organizational complexity who are budget complexity or maybe an enumeration of and I love barriers or something just I know that that would be helpful on some of the other groups. Maybe denied doesn't find it quite as helpful, but if you want to put it here to me, this is a sheet that just indicates likelihood of release yeah, okay and then it.

B

D

Would want it like I guess you know this could be what it is. It's really great at what it is and if, if a different group wants to add another column to keep track of what's hard in different ways, then we can do that as well. It'd.

B

Be fine I just want to keep the noise down on this document say that lemon goes to publish yep. This is a great idea, don't change anything.

D

B

And then remember just again for the folks that are here from the working groups that, if you're a candidate, if it's green candidate, means that it has a detail page behind it as well.

B

So you know so. Obviously we have the focus areas. We have you know, goals and questions and metrics that are kind of embedded in this entire sheet here. But then there's a there's a whole page, that's dedicated to giving details.

C

B

Something like diversity, access, tickets or a code of conduct, an event. You know what I mean yeah.

B

D

Questions you can ask.

B

B

So I'm Gary tell me if I'm wrong, but this I assume this is the thinking Andy and I as well. Yes,.

A

That is the thinking, and it can only be green if it already has that page. Okay,.

B

A

Also means there is a page, it just is incomplete. Okay,.

B

That would make sense and blue means that it might be able you might be able to assemble that page and that red means that's just probably not gonna happen. That's.

A

D

B

Any thoughts people other than what's been talked about so far very cool. Thank you very much dee and I working group for putting this together and sharing it.

B

Let's see so I that was okay, I'm looking at action items from last week as well.

B

Looks like we knocked off a couple of those Gary. This will be a funny one Gary. You had an action item from last week, which was to create a pull request to the value. Did you do that.

D

A

Maybe Andy remembers if I didn't.

A

Yes, it's number 18.

B

They froze there for a while, hey.

A

Pros I did so it's pull request. Number 18, okay,.

B

It's there: let's document that yeah.

B

B

Andy you had an action item from last week. You see it down there put together a document of what metrics need implementing and what might be required. Yes,.

C

So I do have that and I'm gonna use the same spreadsheet format. That's okay, okay,.

B

So maybe that action can just kind of carry over populating the spreadsheet yeah.

C

B

B

All right, great buzzer, that was actually it for action items um so for Kaos, con North, America I'll, just move to that one.

B

We are said in terms of date, so it's gonna be the day before can't our day before opens, for some in America starts. I think is the 20th of August. It's alright!

B

Yes, it is okay, so chaos, con North America will be August. 20Th 2019.

B

At the moment, we have two rooms kind of like what we did in Vancouver Sean yeah yeah. So we have one room where we can actually do presentations and that kind of stuff and then another room where we could do breakout. If you wanted to do something like auger work or folks from bitter, do you want to do some core, more lab work that can.

A

B

There so at the moment we have one room. We have to route one room for lecture one room for work as it stands. We can change this assume a little bit. I know the facility I've been there several times and they're pretty big rooms, so I think one of the rooms is on seats, 100 and then one is 50.

B

So then, that question that I kind of have for people is we it's mostly just about money? It's so do we want. Do we want coffee? Do we want one? Do we want our own lanyards? Do we love it? How do we want to structure this right? So I have a kind of a money, money question.

A

So the question that I have with in response to your questions is: is this something where we want to put together an organizing committee again we're gonna organize it here on the weekly calls? Maybe.

B

You're right maybe we should put together an organizing committee and you can opt-in and then we can answer those questions more locally there and report back to this call sounds good sign man all right. Let's do that then Sean.

E

Here I'll show you something really quick. Yes, of course these are items. These are poker chips that we had made for Hyper ledger, and these have the project logos on the front and then on the back. We have you know, contributor, 2019, like it. These are super cheap. These are like quantity 25, you know, and if you got 50 of them, I think you get free. Shipping from Colorado, but I was I mean I was really surprised. These are like really high quality chips and the print is I expected for the price.

E

It was just gonna be a sticker that was stuck on, but it's like it's really nicely done. You know you have the site that you used I, think it's called chip. Labs, I'll, find it and said it's mine, didn't yeah yeah I mean.

B

I like it, because it's kind of unique to be honest with you, yeah.

E

And it's cheap enough: you can do one per vent right uh-huh! You could do like a kiosk on in a 20-19 contributor or whatever yeah yeah. You know really good when they were. They were pretty popular, so yeah anyway, I'll send a link cool.

B

All right cool, the other, so in terms of like poker chips, I can just kick in it by those. If they really are a dollar. Apiece I've got funds here, but if we go slightly larger we do have we do it's just you can put this in the notes care. We do have some dollars left over or not even left over. We have some dollars from from google Summer of Code last year. If you recall the organization's get dollars all right, that's right! Yeah!

B

It's not a ton of money, but ice here you can put me on the organizing committee too, and I can find out how many dollars we have in there they're just sitting idle and that could help offset things like coffee. That was at least my initial thought. I always like to think that coffee will be inexpensive with these things, but it's not so yeah how he seems to do really kitchen so anyway, maybe something that we can bring up the new organizing committee in them.

B

I think I'd have to get board approval to spend those dollars, but that.

D

Would I think be a performant thing: it's not like Cass County, yes, money, yeah,.

B

No, no, what I would follow protocol I would I would be surprised that if anybody responded differently, but it.

A

Would be nice to have community bridge set up so that we can do all the expenses through community bridge? That's.

B

A good idea: can you put that in the notes, even though I have no idea how community bridge works.

D

My understanding is, we have to come up with our own match.

B

A

Think they can move the money we already have into community bridge and then have a transparent ledger for managing the money there. Okay, okay.

E

That's the bridge team is like really. They really want to help people get on board there. So they're, pretty responsive, okay,.

B

Do you think they would do something like this like if we have existing right now, our dollars are google Summer of Code dollars just went to the LF, you know what I mean, because they could receive the dollars right right. All.

E

Right that I can't speak to, but I mean I. Someone needs to set up an account, and you know just talk to him. Okay,.

B

Actually, you can where'd you put that note Gary in the minutes where.

A

I put your name next to it: yeah soon,.

B

As they put that down as an action item for me,.

A

So they, the way that I understand community bridge is what the Linux Foundation does right now with managing our account and we always have to go through them. Community bridge is an interface with a transparent ledger that gives us autonomy to do those things without having to go through the Linux Foundation at all. They.

B

Get like a couple people the authority to actually spend the money. Last.

A

I heard it's one person: okay,.

B

A

That might change Monday improve on it. I will.

B

Put the but that I'll just put that in my conversation with them over the course of the week, I'm excited to try to do it too. To be honest with you, I like the idea of it.

D

I love the idea of it yeah when I went to the page. I was a little bit fun, though, where I was gonna, get 15, grand or whatever to match I, don't yeah I, think they match or something I, don't know yeah. So that's the key. So let's do it.

B

More information on the way: yeah, okay, I, guess, honestly, that's it for me. Do any of the working groups have updates that they.

A

Wanna know on CARICOM before we move on. Oh sorry,.

D

B

A

Document I put a trap for the CFP and, if you look at it, there's also a schedule and gonna post. This change figure so I'm, proposing that we opened the CFP basically today and then close it at the end of May, like we did last year, announced the talks to individuals on June, 10 and then published the schedule on May 16, okay, June 16 and then have our nice event on August 20. You.

B

Just want to use this link for the.

A

Submissions, the one at the bottom Baris have draft for CP submission form yep. That is the one that I set up just now. Okay, we.

B

Could possibly do it through the LF if you care, if this is just easy enough to do it this way, this.

A

Is easy enough? Okay,.

B

A

Registration I would like to do again through the LF, so there Khaos Khan is an option when everyone registered for I think.

B

I put that in the request it when I had to fill out, that request, form yeah I had put it tied to the OSS. Any registration.

A

Okay, what also we'll talk about in the committee? Okay, sounds good. Okay,.

B

Dope any other items, chaos con, related, okay,.

A

B

Now I guess: I'll ask the question any anything from work groups that people want to talk. I got out on their mind, and this is kind.

C

Of an open call so.

E

So one we I, don't that the time is so short hyper ledger is working. We have our arm they're, no longer internships, their mentorship program, mmm-hmm. It closes on Monday and we have a very enthusiastic response from guys and we're trying to reach out, and it's going to be too late to reach out to the DNI working group for our next meeting on Monday mm-hm.

E

If you know any forums for college-age women who, if you could share our link or if you could tell tell me and I'll, pass it along I, we have some funds to buy like targeted ads, but I'd, really rather just reach out to organizations directly, there's a link to the call and the chat, yeah, absolutely and I assume these are off-site mentorship programs yeah. These are all these are. These are paid remote right. You would be you'll, be doing this from home or wherever right. It's not that I'm trying to get there. Sorry, no!

E

No worries alright! So there's the link I, don't remember how much the money is, but it's we don't do unpaid internships right. So, okay,.

E

Yeah, so that's that's. The link and I don't see the details, but if anyone can help, I really appreciate it, because we were really heavy on the on the guys right now. Okay,.

B

I appreciate that I'm Shawn I'm thinking I would assume I mean locally I. Think I can help. It wouldn't be a super broad reach, but we have programs.

D

Here at the University yeah I'm gonna chose with CSS D insertion of science associate technical systems. Mailing list also good idea, as well as the ECM csw and Eastern hi mailing list.

B

Can you put that link in to where you're sharing it just so well, I have to find it hasn't.

E

Yeah or just you know, CC me, you know our Jones at Linux, Foundation, comm earth, comm. Sorry, man, don't worry yeah our Jones it. What our Jo NES at what I'm sorry Linux got a.

D

E

Word: okay, sorry, I process and community piece of information simultaneously, no worries, I put it in chat. Thank you and thank you everyone for for the assist, because we, you know time is short and it's like we I think it's like 95% male right now for.

B

E

It's like, oh no.

B

uh Are you does it does? Anybody know, does nCWIT target Cal? Is that for college age as well? No.

B

D

B

Ask about this as well, but.

B

Here right when I get off, this call I'm not sure, if you're familiar with this organization, but they do a lot of really good transformational work in this space, cool.

B

So I'll follow up and then I might I'll ping. You out-of-band, thank you yep, you bet. Okay cool, so there was silence on the working groups sounds like everybody's I know a lot of the work work there.

B

And I know that there's good work being done so I can get somebody's.

C

Granny, you can go ahead.

B

C

See so some comments on the value.

B

C

Group last week.

D

C

Decided to I think create a reference implementation for the metrics that we're going to propose, and we would very much like Google Summer of Code folks to help us with that.

C

So, if you, if you are interested, please join our call on Friday you can you can look at our notes to learn more one of the things that I think is gonna, be interesting, and maybe a little bit different about the metrics, for the value working group is that we talked about the idea of parameter ties, parameters metrics you get pronounce that right, parameterised metrics, where we would create, for example, metrics around labor investment and one input to a labor investment metric would be, for example, a number of commits number of issues, clothes things things of that nature which we can extract today and that plus the parameters which which might labor rates cost to fix cost to fix an issue would, we think, be a meaningful value.

C

That organization would use so parametrized metrics, something.

B

I would assume these parameters could be set locally or publicly could.

C

Be done locally could be done publicly and the the Met tricks that we will extract for the reference implementation will use the tools that Kaos already has auger and in Perceval and so on and we'd. Really, if there is a google Summer of Code student who's interested in helping us put that together and build up this. This new technique of parameterized metrics that'd be awesome. Okay,.

B

Yeah I'm excited about that, and so it's like from the sounds of it. It sounds like value being on the calls for the last couple weeks. Value and risk are really striving towards getting these reference. Implementations are kind of seeing the metrics in in real life. You go correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I'm not getting a sense from these working groups.

C

Yep, that's that's very much an interest that I have be quite easy for us to list. Metrics I mean we could brainstorm together and come up with metrics, but I think there's just so much value to be had in doing an implementation. You know getting the feedback seeing seeing how the metrics actually work in practice.

C

There's a lot of learning to be had in actually building them out in a reference implementation, cool.

B

In China, like I, said I think risks feels like they're doing the same thing you know so actually I mean I feel like with value and risk. If you're doing some of this work in auger Shan mmm are these gonna be public instances of Uyghur yeah.

D

B

D

See when we get it all wired up, ok,.

B

The other thing that I know Andy just to keep on your radar that that risk is taking a look at is on the sample metrics that they're looking to deploy they're, also looking at sample projects and they're, specifically looking at open SSL Libre SSL bring SSL just as a way to these are the projects that may be of interest to folks in risk area and so kind of deploying the metrics in meaningful projects. So you may want to projects is wrong too. What was the third project boring or an SSL? Okay?

B

Apparently it's a Google thing. I'd, never heard of it and I think it's spelled like boring, like people are boring, so.

C

I really believe in pouring all our energy onto onto you know fewer number of things so I think SSL is awesome and I would love to make that a also focus for value. Then, and those can be target.

B

Sample communities across two different projects that would be great yeah Shawn. Does that make sense to you yeah.

D

B

D

We use the same cool projects. That's that's not terrible. Yeah.

C

That'd be great, so I'd be interested in knowing for those three projects like like who are the key users of those projects. Well,.

B

Open SSL, everyone.

D

You have a web browser.

C

But you know, presumably there's gonna be somebody out there who really gives a damn about vulnerabilities and open SSL. Maybe it's a financial company. Maybe it's a de.

A

Minimis company sure sure.

C

You know somebody who's got like staff who, actually you know drills into these protocols and you know, does their own assessment of of you know where the vulnerabilities are to me. That would be a real, interesting type of an organization to talk to what.

B

C

B

No I was agreed, I was gonna, say I, think in the in the risk group that the call that was yesterday Jessica who's, also on the call is trying to engage those organizations that you're talking about Andy I, don't have the names but trying to get them involved in the calls just so they see the deployed metrics on these particular projects really just to generate more conversation.

B

C

So if, if you guys have got a set of target companies, I think we should be talking to them, also for value and I. Think we'll learn more by having an error newer focus of organizations than if we, if we are more.

B

C

B

Do we have a sense on who those might be with respect to value like I, think in the rent and the risk side of things it's kind of coming from? Isn't it adorable devices right now, Sean or which one for risk, the companies that are kind of involved there.

D

There yeah their safety, critical operations, I think Jessica's, pretty wired in in the mid device. Industry and I have a bunch of experience there. Also so I think that's that's where it's coming from and she's, given us a few good clues about what might be useful and that's what we're shooting for yeah in.

C

Value I've been thinking basically of a target list of open source program offices, and you know, there's there's dozens of them and it would be nice to have kind of a second level of filtering which is open source program offices that have got you know critical security issues, the most sensible.

B

If that's the, if that's kind of off the top of your head, the most sensible group, are you familiar with the to do? Group no.

C

B

Oh I'm they're, pretty high powered group of folks I, think representing open source program offices often and that you could explore the opportunity of trying to get the value work in front of some folks that are involved with the to do. Group. Oh well,.

C

B

Maybe the first step would be kind of get these reference. Implementations built out around these particular projects, the Conservatives that kind of it grease the wheels way of thinking about value.

B

And then conversations so.

C

Personally, I'd like to do it in reverse order about the idea and ask what they would like in a what they would find interesting in a reference implementation and.

E

C

B

Let's see here.

B

All right, well, let me start seeing kind of what I can do in that regard.

B

Bringing people to the value discussion.

C

um Yeah I mean so for me personally, of course, more the better right area.

B

C

Ready but I will say last week you know we had a really good turnout. You know we have like seven people, it was our second call. Okay, no I was I was really encouraged by that and you know the the doors wide open. We really want people, both developers and people. Who've just got ideas about about value metrics, to participate, okay, right.

B

Cool any other updates working groups, kind of got the DNI update. We know what you're doing mm-hmm.

D

All right, we named I think it's been since last meeting that has actually renamed furniture. You declined to evolution, so we've involved and eating every other week now and continuing to run down these related to code and starting to work on issues really or metrics radiation cool.

B

Where we have website wise on that I'm guessing it's not updated. The website yeah, like our own working group names, evolution I can just to do in the minutes. I can go back and look. I can I can just issue some pull request to get that updated. That's not a big deal.

B

B

If it's not done I'll, do it Shawn, okay,.

B

B

Any other items.

B

All right, very good nobody's got anything ahead. Good taste, I'm, good, I'm, good I got nothing. I. Take silences, nothing so until next week for a lot of folks on this call and is GMB meeting tomorrow or you not tomorrow, not tomorrow the evolution, sorry evolution is no longer meeting or evolution is meeting those evolution meeting tomorrow, I.

D

Don't think you know it's not okay and but.

B

But that means common just meeting on Thursday yeah, so the next week meetings this week are coming on Thursday and.

C

B

Value on Friday, so all right, cool, cool thanks. Everybody all right, bye, see you later yeah.