►
From YouTube: CHAOSS Weekly Hangout July17 2018
Description
Weekly CHAOSS Hangout
C
D
D
D
Actually
I
just
came
across
OpenStreetMap,
maybe
I
had
just
not
seen
it.
I
had
just
come
across
it
about
a
month
ago,
a
very
cool
project,
very,
very
cool,
well
Zephyrs,
cool
too
right
on
alright,
so
Sofia
just
so
you
know
the
way
do
we
run.
These
is
every
Tuesday
out,
so
the
first
Tuesday
of
every
month
we
have
a
formal
official
meeting
and
then
the
other
Tuesdays
are
just
kind
of
there.
Nothing.
D
We
have
no
agenda
I'm
I'm
here
Georg
is
here
raised
here
a
lot
anyway,
people
just
kind
of
come
and
go
so
there's
nothing,
really
official
locates
here,
hi,
Kate,
okay,
so
that's
kind
of
how
we
run
these
sessions.
So
if
you
have
things
you
want
to
bring
up
kind
of
put
on
a
radar,
that's
totally
cool!
You
can
do
that
things.
You
want
us
to
take
a
look
at
no
problem,
but
that's
what
these
that's.
What
these
readings
are.
D
E
D
E
D
F
That
should
be
doable,
I
mean
that
might
be
another
helpdesk
request.
You
can
just
migrate
the
archives
over
and
then
I
mean
the
process
of
doing
that.
You
should
be
able
to
move
the
subscribers
over
as
well.
If
that
makes
it
easier,
but
I
don't
know
if
that
needs
to
be
opted
in
or
if
anyone's
gonna
be
upset,
because,
like
people
just
were
migrated
over
but
I'm.
D
A
A
D
G
Thought
it
went
really
well
reggae
great
talk,
I
thought
there
were
a
number
of
really
excellent
talks
and
some
of
the
a
lot
of
the
unconference
was
really
well
done.
I
did
an
unconference
on
Saturday,
and
then
we
had
another
unconference
that
Danielle
and
I
did
on
Sunday.
In
addition
to
the
one
that
the
diversity
inclusion,
community,
organized
okay,
Daniels
and
I
was
focused
on
software,
that
people
used
to
do
community
management
work
and.
G
The
one
that
I
organized
on
Saturday
was
a
camera.
What
I
called
it?
It
was
building
inclusive
meritocracies.
What
do
you
need
to
know,
and
what
do
you
need?
What
do
you
know
or
didn't
know
what
you
do
is
basically
kind
of
teasing
out
trying
to
tease
out
what
things
that
people
want
to
measure
in
using
metrics
and
then
what
practices,
in
addition
to
your
measurement
people
think
are
important
for
diversity
and
inclusion.
G
Okay,
I
thought
it
drew
a
pretty
good
conversation
around
that
a
lot
of
good
notes
from
it
all
right,
good,
the
diversity,
inclusion,
work,
went
really
well.
Also,
I
think
I
think
there's
a
lot
there,
a
lot
of
people
there
that
are
really
interested
in
understanding.
You
know
how
do
we
make
our
project
successful
and
also
pay
attention
to
diversity?
Inclusion,
because
those
are
not
metrics
that
were
traditionally
evaluated
by
and
I
thought
Emma
and
Nicole
had
some
really
great
stories
that
they
shared
that
drew
out
stories
for
others
as
well.
A
G
F
Yeah
I
mean
I
can
speak
for
my
session
to
Ivan
I
mean
they
even
have
a
get
up
repo,
where
you
can
upload
notes
and
like
materials,
I
haven't
done
mine,
yet
that's
I
mean
my
session
was
I,
think
was
was
Saturday,
I,
assume
they'll
be
ongoing
for
about
a
week
or
so
yeah
I
know
Sean.
You
took
a
lot
of
notes
like
on
your
session
on
Saturday
right
I
saw
you
take
at
least
two
three
pages
worth
of
yeah.
G
G
F
A
A
F
D
So
I
mean
I'll,
just
I'll,
make
this
offer
array
and
Shawn.
If
you
can
just
kind
of
funnel
some
of
your
self
down
to
myself
and
Georg
yep
that
we
can
perhaps
kind
of
synthesize
this
stuff
right
and
that
would
you
know,
I
mean
that
way.
It
will
take
it
a
little
off
of
your
plate.
You
were
the
ones
that
were
in
Portland,
Oregon
I
can
just
kind
of
run
through
some
of
these
notes
on
the
slides
and
okay
I
can
kind
of
write
a
blog
post.
Even
if
it's
just
a
couple
paragraphs
yeah.
H
F
But
I
agree
with
Shawn:
it's
it's
a
good
event:
I
mean
John.
Oh
there's,
a
good
job
and
other
volunteers
do
a
good
job
of
making
it
a
very
collaborative
event
cool.
So.
G
E
G
I,
planned
I
will
do
that
I've
already
I've
already
made
people
aware
individually,
but
I
will
do
a
more
general
recruiting
push
because
I
mean
when
we
were
talking
about
the
working
groups.
I
think
growth
maturity
decline
definitely
needs
more
community
manager.
Engagement
now
I
was
exploring
a
little
bit
how
to
how
to
get
that
and
what
we
can
give
to
community
minders.
We
can
give
back
to
to
get
them
engaged
and
okay
have
a
little
bit
of
a
sense
of
that
now,
as
well.
Better
than
I
did.
C
D
Sorry,
from
my
perspective,
it's
say,
participating
in
in
the
mail
list
or
participating
in
the
work
groups.
That's
why
so
yep
so
the
the
reason.
Why
is
because
I
think
we
have
good
representation
from
members
from
organizations
pretty
often
I,
don't
I
don't
feel,
like
so
kind
of
this
external
to
the
community
perspective.
I
understand
that
people
play
both
roles
in
companies
and
in
communities.
D
Community
managers
would
kind
of
give
a
different
perspective
as
to
what
the
meaning
these
metrics
can
be
for
them.
So
I
think
Ray
would
speak
from
OPN
Fe
when
he
was
doing
doing
that
work,
which
is
always
a
really
kind
of
a
different
perspective
than
say
we
would
get
from
a
for-profit
company.
That's
why?
Okay.
D
H
G
Spent
some
time
talking
to
the
maintainer
for
the
XFS
file
system
and
he
said
that
he's
so
annoyed
by
metrics
that
he
essentially
in
order
to
prove
a
point
gained
them
so
that
he
would
be
the
top
contributor
one
month
and
then
gained
them.
So
he
would
be
the
bottom
contributor
the
next
month.
Okay,
it's.
C
Planning
to
them
in
that
sense,
because
I
think
that
unless
we
really
do
some
empiricism,
we
are
just
essentially
doing
the
same
of
it
as
everybody
has
I
think
that
the
big
difference
of
this
group
is
that
you
can
actually
do
the
research
to
show
that
this
is
not
just
opinion
that
there
are
certain
facts,
and
even
if
that
fact
is
that
people,
don't
trust
metrics.
You.
F
C
Interpret
that
we
can
do
we
can
do
we
can
do
that.
We
can
actually
go
out
and
ask
these
people
this
this
leader.
You
can
ask
them
how
to
use
this
metrics.
We
can
actually
show
that
people
use
them
as
a
metrics
in
different
ways.
We
can
show
that
some
people
trust
the
metrics
and
some
people
game
them.
Otherwise,
we're
just
actually
do
an
opinion.
B
C
D
So
yeah
I
don't
know
that
I
totally
understand
your
point.
Daniel,
oven
and
I
completely
agree
that
these
shouldn't
just
be
from
the
top
of
our
brain
kind
of
opinions
and
providing
any
sort
of
I'll
just
use.
The
word
rigor
instead
of
empirics
and
providing
any
rigor
as
to
why
certain
metrics
are
or
what
we
think
to
be
important
or
why
certain
metrics
are
important
if
we
can
help
provide
rigor
behind
that,
that's
a
hundred
percent
in
our
best
interest,
so
I
think
we're.
Actually
you
know,
I
was.
D
Yeah
I
think
that's
just
it
Sean,
so
I
Shauna
is
saying
that
we
did
a
lot
of
the
metrics
that
have
been
brought
forward
have
been
empirically
validated
through
research.
We
just
need.
We
need
to
be
more
explicit
in
that,
which
is
something
we
haven't
been
doing.
I
think
that's
what
you're
saying
Sean
you're
unmute
but
yeah.
We
have.
We.
G
Have
references
that
underlie
the
metrics
that
we've
assembled?
They
come
from
an
empirically
validated
place
and
we
just
haven't
made
this
I
think
really
to
make
it
clear
that
this
is
not
an
academic
exercise.
I
know,
in
my
case,
I
haven't
put
the
references
in
if
I
don't
want
the
community
managers
to
think
well.
This
is
just
an
academic
exercise,
so
it's
a
I
mean
if
adding
references
well,
I
had
sort
of
some
credibility
in
the
eyes
of
the
community
management.
It's
helpful,
but
but
these
are
certainly
we're
not
making
things
up,
but.
G
C
G
D
F
G
That
there's
we
have
prioritized
providing
something
useful
to
the
community
over
academic
publication
and
the
kind
of
documentation
of
the
methodologies
and
rigor
that
we
use
beforehand.
I.
Think
as
a
second
point,
there
are
a
number
of
things
under
review,
but
the
academic
publication
process
takes
substantially
longer
the
name
I'm.
C
Not
talking
about
a
paper
I'm
talking
about
the
traditional
rigor
that
we
do
when
do
we
do
research?
If
I
had
a
credit
student
doing
this
I
would
say
your
commute.
You
need
to
start
all
over
again,
because
the
process
that
you
have
does
not
lead
towards
scientific
rigor,
and
that
is
what
I'm
talking
about
yep,
that
we
have
the
opportunity
that
we
have
is
to
be
able
to
have
more
convincing
evidence
that
some
things
are
the
way
they
are
correct.
D
Correct
so
I
I,
I
think,
the
we
are
providing
methodological
rigor
so,
for
example,
georg
who's
on
this
is
this
phone
call
has
been
running
interviews
with
community
managers
as
well
as
Kevin
with
community
managers
and
people
within
organizations
who
are
trying
to
understand
metrics
and
how
they
can
inform
the
way
that
they
understand
their
engagement
with
open
source.
Okay,
they've
been
running
these
interviews.
These
interviews
have
run
through
an
IRB
protocol.
D
The
interviews
were
set
up
using
a
formal
methodology
to
actually
set
up
questions,
and
so
my
point
is,
is
that
we
we
have
been
rigorous
but
I.
Don't
think
we've
been
expressing
that
rigor
in
explicate,
ngey,
metrics
and
I
think
that
the
point
to
provide
clearer
details
is
a
point
very
well,
very
well
taken
and.
E
Kevin
and
I
blocked
sometime
on
Thursday,
to
go
through
the
interviews
and
we'll
be
continuing
to
do
that,
going
forward
to
distill
what
we
learn
from
the
interviews
about
the
metrics,
and
we
will
provide
this
back
to
the
community.
So
in
a
few
weeks,
I
think
we
should
have
something
written
up
that
will
outline
how
we
collected
the
data,
how
we
analyze
the
data,
what
process
we
went
through
and
then
what
we
learned
with
regards
to
all
of
these
metrics
I.
C
D
D
So
I
kind
of
on
this-
this
conversation
too
I
think
so
part
of
it
is-
is
the
rigor
behind
the
metrics
that
we
have
expressing
that
rigor
behind
those
metrics.
The
other
is,
and
this
I
think
had
come
up
with
with
Thea.
It
had
come
up
with.
In
other
talks,
which
is,
is
trying
to
understand
those
metrics
in
practice.
D
So
we
can.
We
can
run
the
strong
methods
to
understand
what
people
care
about
right.
I
can
I
can
run
official
interviews
and
I
can
interview
somebody
like
Ray
and
say
you
know
when
you
were
at
OPN
Fe.
What
did
you
look
at
what
you
care
about
and
whatever
the
interview
protocol
look
like,
and
we
do
this
process
rigorously,
but
then
the
question
is
is,
is
how
are
those
metrics
actually
used
in
practice?
D
D
D
D
D
If
we
were
to
follow
that
all
the
way
to
the
end
and
say,
if
you
do
these
metrics
you
will
you
will
get
these
things
like.
We
will
never
be
able
to
say
that
that's
just
not
possible.
If
you
know,
if
you
look
at
metrics
a
B
and
C,
then
I
guarantee
that
your
community
will
be
healthier
like
we're,
never
gonna,
be
able
to
say
something
so
there's
a
there's,
there's
kind
of
the
in-between
which
is
here
the
metrics.
We
know
people
like
and
would
like
to
to
be
able
to
take
a
look
at.
D
We
can
answer
those
I
think
pretty
well
we're
never
gonna
get
to
the
full
end
of
the
chain.
I
think
we
all
agree
because
I
think
so
context-specific
we're
never
going
to
be
able
to
prescribe
metrics
or
were
particular
actions.
So
I
guess
one
of
my
questions
that
I'm
always
struggling
with
is
how
far
out
do
we
go
at?
What
point
is
a
community?
D
Do
we
say
we're
done
this
is
this
is
as
far
as
we
can
go
and
so
right
now
sorry
I'm
kind
of
talking
a
while,
but
right
now
we
kind
of
say
we
have
four
categories
that
we
think
are
important
right.
We
have
growth,
maturity
and
decline,
diversity
and
inclusion,
risk
and
value
right
and
sorry,
I
use.
The
word
I
think
you
can
kill
me
on
that
Daniel.
But
here
the
here,
the
the
categories
that
we
want
to
put
forward-
and
these
are
the
metrics
that
comprise
those
categories.
D
G
Really
make
sense
to
me:
I
think
where
we
stopped
is
when
we
have
a
process
in
place
that
community
managers
and
people
interested
in
metrics
can
use
to
sort
of
continuously
evaluate
the
utility
of
different
methods.
I
think
I,
don't
think
we're
gonna
reach
an
end
point
where
metrics
are
put
out
there
and
used
and
remain
stated
and
useful
across
the
board.
All
the
time
I
think
there's
always
going
to
be
some
evolution,
because
the
soon
as
there's
a
metric
people
will
game
it.
D
So
the
metaphor
that
I
kept
thinking
was
was
like:
if
you're,
if
you
have
a
kid
that
you're
ready
to
send
off
to
college,
you
have
a
bunch
of
categories
that
you're
trying
to
orient
them
on.
So
maybe
one
of
those
categories
is
understanding
finances.
Maybe
one
of
those
categories
is
understanding
how
to
be
a
good
person,
a
good
social
person
out
in
the
world.
Another
category
I,
don't
know
what
those
counties,
but
you
know,
is
it
as
a
to
give
those
to
another
parent
you're,
not
gonna,
say
just.
F
B
B
Instead
of
making
let's
say,
instinct
based
prescriptive
recommendations
having
volumes
of
past
case
studies,
examples
of
things
that
have
worked
or
not
worked
for
other
people,
you
know
I
think
there
also
could
be
room
for
you
know
if
you've
got
a
group
of
folks
who
are
all
trying
to
solve
the
same
problems.
You
know
it
might
be
interesting
even
within
ourselves
to
do
a/b
testing
on
like
what
metrics
have
you
know.
B
Are
we
all
using
the
same
metrics,
and
can
we
do
some
testing
to
see
what
those
the
effect
of
different
metrics
are
on
some
of
these
communities?
You
know
I
think
there
there
might
be
a
lot
of
interim
steps
instead
of
making
recommendations
that
that
would
empower
people
to
make
their
own
choices
without.
D
D
I
D
C
G
F
G
At
the
Community
Leadership
Summit
highlighted
how
people
to
do
community
leadership
and
management.
Are
they
literally
report
across
the
board
to
almost
every
corner
of
every
organization?
There's?
No!
But
when
you
talk
about
stakeholders,
is
the
stakeholders
for
these
kinds
of
metrics
end
up
being
hard
to
pin
down
in
system
because
they
don't
exist
consistently?
Okay,.
C
Well,
it's
also
the
fact
that
we
have
been
using
the
term
measuring
from
different
points
of
view.
So
sometimes
we
talk
from
the
point
of
view
of
the
developer.
Sometimes
we
point
we
talk
from
the
point
of
view
of
a
potential
user.
Sometimes
we
talk
about
and
a
current
user,
so
I
think
that
even
even
just
a
simple
discovery
of
who
uses
metrics
or
who
is
interested
in
metrics,
it's
valuable.
So
we
understand
who
the
users
are
and
then
once
we
understand
who
the
users
are,
then
we
can
start
asking.
C
Why
do
you
need
to
measure
or
better?
If
perhaps
that's
a
even
a
wrong
question
is
what
do
you
need
that
you
think
that
you
can
get
through
measuring
okay?
Would
there
be
a
question
in
here?
Is
what
actions
do
you
take
well,
so
there
are
two
issues
here.
One
of
them
is:
are
you
already
measuring
if
you're
really
measuring,
then
what
do
you
think
are
the
advantages
and
disadvantages
whether
they
challenges
what
they
are?
C
What
is
what
you
are
not
able
to
do
that
you
would
like
to
do
and
for
people
who
are
not
measuring
is.
Why
is
that
your?
No?
No,
and
what
sort
of
information
do
you
would
you
like
to
have,
and
so
I
think
that
the
first
step,
so
it's
almost
like
the
first
challenges,
require
requirements.
Gathering
yep
requirements
gathering
requires
to
know
who
are
the
potential
beneficial,
then
in
fact
then
benefactors
of
all
of
this,
and
what
is
the
problem?
What
is
the
problem
that
they
are
trying
to
solve?
C
I,
don't
think
that
we
even
have
a
clear
idea
in
terms
of
what
that
is,
or
let
me
rephrase
that
we
have
many
many
views
in
terms
of
what
that
is,
but
we
don't
need
not
even
rank
it
Corinne.
If
we
do
this
requirement
gathering
and
not
precise
goals,
let's
say
we
need
to
do
this
first.
We
need
to
do
this.
Second,
this
is
more
of
a
long-term
goal.
It's
a
text
editor
and
then
achievement
is
slowly
and
incrementally.
Rather
than
try
to
have
a
universal
solution.
Okay
agree
with
you,
it
will
probably
never
happen.
C
E
So
he
has
a
fairly
good
idea
within
the
diversity
inclusion
workgroup
that
we
want
to
provide
resources
for
open
source
projects
to
create
a
rift
in
inclusion
report
and
the
resources
that
we
provide,
provides
the
tools
and
success
stories
and
methods
that
communities
can
use
to
create
such
a
report
and
our
goal
is
to
help
open
source
projects
create
reports
that
can
be
compared
across
so
well.
The
work
group
itself
behalf
of
very
good
goal
in
mind
and
the
target
that
we
are
working
towards.
C
E
So
the
the
people
that
we
are
targeting
our
community
managers
or
those
that
work
within
open
source
projects
and
care
about
diversity
and
inclusion-
and
we
know
there
are
in
many
projects,
people
who
care
about
this-
and
these
are
the
ones
they're
currently
working
on
so
many
levels,
but
they're
all
working
separately
and
creating
their
own
surveys,
creating
their
own
tools.
And
we
want
to
provide
the
toolbox
that
they
can
use.
E
C
I
think
that
your
summary
is
quite
interesting.
I
think
that
will
be
valuable
to
know
whether
they
the
tools
that
they're
building,
what
is
what
they're,
currently
measuring
and
then
going
from
there
trying
to
unify
them.
But
what
exactly
is
a
community
manager?
We
seem
to
use
that
term
frequently
here,
but
I
have
never
really
seen
that
title
attached
to
within
a
project.
A
A
A
D
C
C
D
It's
a
great
it's
a
great
point,
I
think.
Basically,
one
of
the
things
that
I
kind
of
jotted
down
is
I'm
the
series
of
goals
that
you
were
kind
of
expressing
I.
Think
I'm
gonna
try
to
start
formalizing
this,
maybe
with
a
rig.
We
can
follow
the
approach
that
we've
been
using
a
org
on
on
interview
construction,
because
I
think
it's
a
great
way
to
elicit
questions
that
are
relevant.
C
I
think
that
the
issue
is
that
and
every
time
that
we
start
going
into
interview,
we
already
have
some
goals
right.
We
need
to
understand
what
we're
trying
to
understand
of
the
world
yep
and
so
I
think
that
thinking
in
terms
of
who
our
stakeholders
are
like
I,
didn't
really
know
exactly
this
term
of
community
manager
until
minutes
ago,
and
it
seems
to
me
that
a
lot
of,
therefore,
that
we're
doing
is
towards
that
particular
person
right.
We.
G
Of
the
people
yeah
and
I
used
I
use
that
umbrella
to
reflect
really
whomever
on
a
project
is
interested
or
incur
interested
or
focused
on
encouraging
newcomers
to
participate.
So
I
use
the
community
manager
term
and
I
reckon
I
mean
I.
Think
most
of
us
recognize
that
role
doesn't
always
exist,
but
as
a
formal
role,
but
there's
always
people
who
are
trying
to
get
new
newcomers
engaged
in
a
project
in
many
cases.
G
C
Perhaps
even
for
ourselves,
we
need
to
be
a
little
bit
more
clear
in
terms
of
definitions
and
naming
and
I
think
that
this
is
also
an
issue
that
has
appeared
when
we
define
metrics
mm-hmm,
so
I
think
that
different
levels,
formalization
is
known
in
terms
of
what
steps
were
taking,
but
even
what
vocabulary
we're
going
to
use?
You
know
I,
think
we've
I
think
we're
getting
sharper.
D
C
To
be
honest
with
you,
so
I
think
the
way
I
see
it
is
all
of
us
have
a
great
opportunity
to
be
able
to
advance
research
in
this
field.
I
think
what
we're
doing
is
it's
in
many
ways,
just
an
extension
of
the
work.
One
has
been
doing
in
the
last
15
years,
trying
to
measure
open
source
differences
that
we
have
the
opportunity
to
make
it
a
little
bit
more
rigorous,
yep.
F
C
D
Like
I
said
earlier,
I
think
we
are
doing
a
lot
of
this
I.
Just
don't
think
we're
expressing
it
yeah
well
at
all,
okay
cool.
What
some
any
other
people
want
to
add
about
K
or
you
did
mention
some
DNI
stuff,
I,
don't
know!
E
E
Know
people
are
more
focused
on
getting
the
the
conference
ready
and
the
sessions
planned
out.
So
that's
diverse,
didn't
even
work
for
me
efforts
in
the
last
week:
okay,
because
the
Leadership
Summit
and
then
you're
also
working
on
the
open
source
summit,
North,
America
and
Europe,
and
also
want
to
do
something
else.
C
So,
where
do
I
find
out
the
schedule.
D
In
the
open
source
at
North
America,
that
schedule
is
also
posted.
E
Is
very
good
as
I'm
looking
through
the
part
of
community
book
every
reference
every
time,
so
no
bacon
rights
community
managed
to
see
if
there's
16
definition
and
it's
just
spread
out
throughout
the
entire
book,
he's
talking
about
the
roles
and
responsibilities
and
the
characteristics
and
the
tasks
and
how
he
interacts
with
users,
how
it
interacts
with
developers,
it's
all
throughout
the
book.
So
there's
no
one
sentence,
definition
that
he
provides.
C
C
C
C
E
There's
a
second
part
that
you're
not
advertising.
On
the
next
day,
we
have
room
or
table
at
the
open
source
summit,
North
America,
that
is
reserved
for
chaos,
and
that
is
where
we
can
do
this
kind
of
getting
to
go,
get
breaking
up
in
groups
discussing,
but
this
is
not
advertised
because
we
don't
want
it's
logged
with
new
people
wanted
to
keep
this
discussion
on
the
next
day
to
ourselves.